of course she would tell you that nothing happened sexually with her new boyfriend but common sense would lead to a different conclusion. the fact your daughter knew before you is also a red flag.
you need to have a long talk together on how and if you can rekindle your relationship.
she is obviously rushing towards end your relationship and starting a new life with her boyfriend.
For example - let's start getting you out of Shock & Denial:
Where's the respect and consideration of your feelings - even in memoriam if she genuinely fell out of love with you/was ever genuinely in-love with you? Where's the same for her precious children's other lifeline on whom their welfare and happiness additionally equally depends? Where's the at least fondness, appreciation, regard and gratitude?
Also - I don't care if you were the most boring, unattentive spouse in the world or Shrek himself. Healthy adults deal with that the adult healthy way, which is, alerting her spouse to the need for marital change/counselling or, failing that, asking for a divorce, moving out, taking time to get over her marriage that meant so much to her, and THEN entering a new relationship. I.e. respectfully. That's what mentally healthy, mature, responsible grown-ups do, anyway. So there is never - EVER! - any legitimate excuse for  committing adultery/stabbing your spouse through the heart,  trying to wholly self-serve by secretly planning and organising a seamless, painless move from her relationship with you to a new relationship with him, no matter the shocking, agonising, devastating affects to other people closest to her that this heaps atop the original trauma of the marriage being suddenly over, even to her own babies.
(Yes, I imagine you indeed *must* have seen some prior warning signs that she could stoop to this level. And that's precisely how I know you're going to end up feeling reborn into Happy Land. The genuine one, this time.)
But anyway - Getting angry yet?
drifting apart has to shared equally. he just barked at her stop talking to your new lover and did nothing to determine reasons or cures for the problems that caused the break up.
but is just a bad women problem ha ha
Thanks for the little pressie, BUNNYHABIT.
1. No, not always the woman. But in this precise case - yes.
2. Remember, you haven't a clue what gender I myself am.
3. Drifting apart has to be shared equally, yes. Choosing to use that drifting as some ridiculous excuse to get away Scott-free with committing adultery *and* be WHOLLY AVOIDABLY abusive about it - NO. She didn't sit him down and explain gently that the marriage for too long hadn't been working for her so wanted a divorce/to be free to find her true Mr Right, etc. Instead, she dealt a massive, majorly destructive betrayal and majorly violent destruction of the entire relationship, past, present and future and progressed a secret relationship for her self-protection alone - and to Hell with everyone else in the family's feelings about it. DAMN right it' all her fault.
4. There was no indication whatsoever in Andy's opening post of there having been any barking, nor any dominator-type ordering around/bullying, on his part. Just his vocalising a reminder of the 'bleedin' obvious' - his own expectations according to decent society's, for her to follow up her crime with doing the only right and decent thing (it's called proof of remorse).
You stand corrected, and I'd ask you in future to have a bit of sensitivity by *not* treating another customer's HIGHLY traumatic victimisation experience as your platform for airing your own, this case, unfounded where this forum and moderator is concerned. And to basically think before you speak. Ironically enough, by having cast the slur that I'm joining the OP in being a blame-shifting sexist/victimiser of women, WITHOUT ANY RATIONAL BASIS OR EVIDENCE, you've demonstrated that *you're* the one with the unfair gender bias. See how that works?
Now behave yourself. I do not want to see behaviour like that again from you.
Unfortunately she's having an affair with a co worker/married man and she could run into trouble. Dont be a part of that You deserve better, that special woman is definitely out there.
I'm not happy about that AT ALL. Not least because that was the first 'squishing' I've had to deal in what feels like 2 whole years - which fact, annoyingly, I was only, just recently celebrating with Richard....
...[runs, Tom & Jerry-style over the hill, goes "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!", runs straight back]
I'm perfectly aware that the overriding majority of over-selfish non-empaths/abusers 'are' males towards females. But it hasn't yet been proven *how or why*. At the same time, it's not unheard of of men feeling too humiliated at having been victimised to seek outside help (it takes b*lls). So it doesn't mean all of them are. Furthermore (doing the Maths) - since being treated that badly by one's spouse or "spouse" is just as rife in same sex romantic relationships as hetero, FACT - it can't logically be about the danglies or the wobblies, can it. It's about the *ROLE* you're tricked or forced by drip-drip habituation into, this case, what we merely identify as characteristically being the female POSITION (as I call it - the Done To rather than the Do To).
Andy, can I take this opportunity to reassure you, that 99.99999% of the time, every forum resident and visitor is empathetic, insightful, shrewd, and at all times conducts his/herself like the well-bred/well-self-trained gentlemen and gentlewomen they are *or* proactively aspiring to be, and, even if suffering themselves, not letting their own issues blind them to the actual evidence (actions) and end up re-victimising. (Or if they *are* still 'patients' themselves, thinking better of foolishly trying to take the adviser role to begin with.) IOW, this is normally a very classy, grown-up forum BURSTING with Common Sense, clear-sightedness, and zero cat-kicking (particularly not right in front of the senior moderator, ye gods!).
Please don't let this rare incident put you off responding if/when you need to, okay?
Advice to all current/future Newbies:
There is a reason why, on a forum of this size, I, as sole interactive/posting moderator, don't need any back-up whatsoever nor have *even once* in all my years here had to ban any subversive poster - which is precisely because they tend to too quickly cotton-on to the fact that 'my other car is a Rotweiller'. Think on, peeps...You might THINK you feel like an arm-wrestle or outright fight, as some kind of cartharcism, but ...I wouldn't advise it with this mod. If you poo on owner Richard's carpet - even if just a couple of 'bunny plops' (although it wouldn't have felt minor to Andy) - whether fresh or days old - I *am* going to shove your nose - AND MOUTH - in it. Zero Tolerance.
Same goes for the other way around: if there is any 'accusing' or reprimanding to do - because the story's ACTIONS AND EVENTS brings to light the reality of the victim actually being the perpetrator, attempting to insult our energy and intelligence by underhandedly using us all to basically launder themselves, meanwhile collecting insights as yet more excuse-and blame-shifting ammo to lob at their poor victim-partner (to make them lie down, shut up and take it) - that 'outing' is my job, not yours; I know precisely how to do it. Hint or gesticulate at me wildly (subtly) by all means, or just leave it for me or one of the undercover mods to inevitably spot and inform me of. But don't confront.
Thank-you, peeps - as you all were.
Christmas and New Year are EXCELLENT for making [a] current or [b] ex victim-targets or [b] new/potential but still-cautious/reticent targets "MUSHIER AND MORE SAPPY" (more generous-hearted and forgiving and needful of Love, Faith, etc.) than normal, thus far more pleasingly susceptible to first-
or hundredth-stage persuasion/manipulation in order that Re-Brainwashing or Hoovering is possible, without too much energy expenditure on the Narc's part (they're *so* lazy over the right things while overly motivated over the wrong things, it beggars belief). They commence/re-start a campaign to work on the target, soften them up, appeal to/provoke their ego for brainwashing again until they again get back in the rotten love boat and/or cease 'rocking' it (or you now know what'll too easily happen). But with now-cautious exes - or still-cautious Once-Bittens coming off of other Narc's or just plain Life's Sh*t battlefields - it takes a while - into Jan/Feb...and of course the next Big Softie Phase is Valentine's, meaning, the activities of those prepping for the latter are 'merging' with those continuing the former (or the older, veteran, lazier Narcs trying to exploit the impact of both seasons in-one).
Yup, it's (Cluster B) Narc or Player (Normal a-hole/copycat) Season alright.
You see it in one of their tools/playgrounds, namely, social media and especially your dating websites - where 'membership' numbers swell as they quickly go ether-grab your seeming (desperate and over-keen) replacement to flaunt in front of your Extra-Mushy, Extra-Vulnerable self because this is likely to engage your 'sense of scarcity' attitude as well as your ego (loss and rejection avoidance/defence programme triggered into being in-charge of you) and draw you back in that way. Artificially. Of course (artificial is their middle name).
Hence there is a sudden increase in victim-targets seeking help and realistic, knowledgeable feedback, validation and support - including support against caving - from more objective, more clearly, firmly defined and dedicated strangers on the ether (- usually because part of why they failed to dump the Narc during the first few dates featuring his/her discombobulatingly obsessive over-interest, was an over-prolonged lack of validating support and reality-checking network to begin with, or whereby the Narc has long poisoned that well behind the victim-target-slave's back as part of his/her need to Isolate to better bully/control said 'slave'....removing one's network/troops - various methods there, as well).
This "Mushy Season" is likewise why, when you're *in* the 'relationship' - if they 'see' the need to punish/beat you up/get revenge over the slightest disobedience or taking your eyes off the ball (whatever those happen to be on any given, constantly goalpost-shifting day) or failure to mind-read and anticipate/preempt...whatever...(they'll make something up), they'll do so by somehow (Covert) "whoops" or (Overt) "bash!"-ruining your Christmases, Birthdays and other important occasions. Because those hurt on National Mushy Days more than on any other, normal day, "innit".
Anything or anyone you (and other normal people with a heart) hold dear or sacrosanct... nothing is sacred and out-of-bounds as a tool or platform for achieving their own, self-serving-driven agendas via this ridiculously time-consuming, constant watching/plotting/machinating - now you know why they dunwanna do a proper job - this way's more 'fun' and less taxing [puke]. There is 'OMG, this guy/gal is SO SELFISH at times he's night-on heartless!' and then there is, 'OMG, this guy/gal SURELY...CANNOT... BE this insanely...inhumanely....selfish, cruel and heartless...SURELY NOT?!. (Yeah, s/he can, it's how they're programmed or mal-re-programmed to be and behave.)
Either they want you back because they've not finished sucking the life and resources out of you *or* how very dare you discard god-like him/her...Now you must be punished - come closer, darling......Gotcha! - take that! and this! and that! and-and (repeat but this time capping off with an even more severe-feeling Discard aka psychological version of being severely beaten-up)...
If you *don't* get Hoovered and instead get Discarded in one, brutal severance, never to see or hear from them again, then that's all credit to you for being too much like hard work to keep primed/brainwashed (there's easier prey 'over there'), or for having dumped *them* in a way that showed you were too far gone to ever be lured back with a lifting of one finger. Credit *especially* when the cut-'n-run is more characteristic of your more fearsome Sociopath.
Nasty stuff, huh?
Typical Hoovering texts:
- "Hi, how are you?"
- "Did you just call me?"
- "You've still got my favourite little ball of sock-fluff / favourite toothpick so I was wondering when can I come round and collect it?"
(You're thinking, Don'tyouf*ckingdareaskmehowIam,likenothing'shappened when the first thing you should be uttering is SORRY and admitting what you did and how come it's taken you WEEKS without me/us to start suffering and doing something about it!!!! (etc.), now determined to get the opportunity to give him a piece of your mind! (S/He's not interested in "all of that sh*t".) Or you're thinking, OhmygodIwaswrong - s/he DOES genuinely love me!, and sobbing with relief. Or anywhere in between.)
Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20xzFJFzHbs - one of the more typical items on The Hoovering menu is re-enacted for you and will take you to the plethora of footage concerning the rest. For example, Hoovering can be hostile rather than a*se-licking, executed either first-hand or via one of his Flying Monkeys/minions (intimidating drive-bys, silent calls, fake-sympathetic "mutual friends" calling round to show their support and concern (but really to collect intel to report back), regularly breaking into your garden at night to move things around/break something...), and especially if you were married with kids and dare divorce all-powerful them.
Basically how you'd expect an overly long-term, incredibly p*ssed-off, hate-and-rage-filled, delinquent toddler / prepubescent / teenager to deal with any sensitive situation. (IMAGINE....."Click!" - PERFECT FIT!)
Would you like to see a photo of a "romantic partner" Narcler, Narcescent, Narcager? My reward for your homework. Here you go (top-left of screen): https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/501166264769315796/
Hilarious but true. And at the same time disturbing but true. In equal measure. (Conflicted Minds is their other middle name.)
What else of this utter but true-life, so-far hush-hush/underground madness have you recently learned or picked up on then worked out for yourself?
I honestly believe that Andy will prevail in the end as I also belive all good things happen to those whom have been cheated on.
That's generally the fate of the morally corrupt, anyway, whether they were always like that and/or just needed the right set of life triggers or are temporarily bouncing off the walls and acting-out for whatever reasons.
You don't do something that cruel and agonising to someone who's shared and supported your life and produced children with you, for 21 long years. You just don't. And - who on EARTH of any adult persuasion would tell your CHILD - as if she's your equal, adult friend - before telling he whose business it actually is! What a thing to do to your child and what an added humiliation to heap onto the spouse. So at best, she's shown she's gobsmackingly, *literally* only out for herself and wouldn't know maturity if it bit her hard on the bum.
The alternative - via the clue that this cuckolder used the characteristic 'my wife doesn't understand me' line, is that she's been worked on and brainwashed by this fella, that *he* is the cold-hearted, selfish, using Narc who's managed to convince her that Heaven awaits (uh-oh - more like Hell).
(More like, she understands him ALL TOO WELL.)
Well, anyway - I'm pleased and relieved to see, BH, that you've now realised that this is never a gender issue but a Healthy/Functioning Person -v- Narcissistic/Narcissised (Flying Monkey) Dysfunction (er) Person thing. Or put another way - (Small-Scale) Good -v- (ditto) Evil.
But even IF one's spouse is the problematic element, there's no excuse to cheat. Well, there is *one*: where it literally is your one-and-only route of escape from a monster (although that's still a case of using the hopeful newbie as a taxi out of there). Not in this case though: amongst other copious clues, like the fact she's free to do a proper job - note how much else freedom the woman had re. travelling wherever/whenever she wished plus freely and independently making purchases. No emotionally battered wife/cohab. partner gets rights like those in an NPD relationship by Year 21 (ha-ha - do what?!). Because, Financial Abuse/Takeover and deliberate social Isolation (female Narc's case - forcing you to have to work all the hours God sends to keep up with their - NOTE THIS TROPHY EXAMPLE - frivolous attitude towards money) - although two of the far more quiet/subtle, creeping-up-slowly-under-the-table abuse measures and mechanisms - always-always feature in whatever format.
It's undoubtedly too soon for Andy to be ready to get his head straight and deal with this massively upsetting life-devastation, let alone discuss it with us. But if you two want to be come nigh-on indispensable on this forum then the way to do so is to surf your a*ses off on the entire Cluster B relationship topic and discuss it together here - not least to stop the thread expiring - until such time as Andy's ready to talk.
Here you are, both of you (or 'all' if Andy's at least reading) - a bit of fun disempowerment: beautiful illustration of how everything in your NPD relationship is flipped 180 Degrees / back-to-front. Enjoy :
Discussion closed - why not create your own thread?