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Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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So, there is this common friend group that I have. I have met most people from it but due to the pandemic, we mostly meet in online video calls. The number of people on the call varies depending on everyone's schedule. There is this one girl in the group that was my senior and over the past few months, I started talking to her. We started talking about casual stuff like shows, work etc. but occasionally we talked about deeper stuff as well. This went on for two months. Then, a couple of times it was just us on the group call and we talked for hours for all sorts of stuff. A lot of it was our personal feelings about things or how we thought about certain kinds of relationships, what kind of childhoods we had etc. She mentioned previously that she is generally really private and so I was happy that she chose to share all this with me. Naturally, I assumed that we are decent friends now. Now, some time ago I asked her over text about a moral question I had (about giving people money). I asked her what she does in the situation. She said stuff like I don't need to know her opinion and that I am not allowed to reach out to her anytime I have questions and that she gets uncomfortable if I ask her personal stuff especially over text. This wasn't stuff that we hadn't discussed before and so I got angry and responded passive aggressively that I won't bother her now and I was asking her because she was a friend. To this, she response that we were not friends and she is just setting up a boundary. I flipped out at this and I said that we have different understanding of what a friend is. I tried to explain how I have been careful around her since she is private. She ended the conversation by saying that she does not want any contact beyond the group now and proceeded to unfriend me on all platforms. I do think that I overreacted and I should not have questioned why she has the boundaries that she has. I want to apologize for that remark but I feel that my being angry at her saying we are not friends was justified. I know that an apology of the type, "I am sorry for X but you did Y . . ." is not an effective one. Should I just apologize for not respecting the boundary and not mention the other stuff at all?

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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If you know you have done wrong, then apologise. Going by your post, you're anger's let you down. You don't have to apologise for crossing a boundary you didn't know existed, although most people would do so. It's a quick 'sorry, won't happen again'...too easy. The lesson learned is that not everyone shares your values and shares what you consider the definition of a friend, and even though you guys do belong to a group, you just can't take things for granted. Whatever people's opinions and outlooks, it's about respecting each other's boundaries and just accepting them full stop, even if they make no sense at all.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Oh I should clarify that this wasn't me texting her out of the blue. We have talked over DMs plenty of times talking about non-group stuff. That's why this reaction was unexpected for me.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Oh I should clarify that this wasn't me texting her out of the blue. We have talked over DMs plenty of times talking about non-group stuff. That's why this reaction was unexpected for me.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Oh I should clarify that this wasn't me texting her out of the blue. We have talked over DMs plenty of times talking about non-group stuff. That's why this reaction was unexpected for me.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Actually, this reads like maybe her partner saw this, was threatened by the closeness, and demanded she cut ties.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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No she's not in a relationship or dating anyone. She herself told me that.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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You only know what she felt like telling you. Getting ugly with you is just weird (though you didn't help matters by answering "aggressively") Move on. She (for whatever reason) doesn't want you to contact her.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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I did eventually apologize to her for overreacting. She ignored it for few days. Later just said thanks.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Well, that's progress, anyway. Well done! But, just FYI, when I clocked this by OldMainer, it matched what I was thinking would explain perfectly her sudden emotional-intimacy reversal: "Actually, this reads like maybe her partner saw this, was threatened by the closeness, and demanded she cut ties."

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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I highly doubt that. Anyway, after this thing, there was an argument among some group members and the group basically fell out. She also cut off some other people from the group (who had nothing to do with the argument) and she has been friends with them much longer than with me. So, something quirky or distressing definitely seems to up with her. You think I should do anything now? We didn't talk or anything after she said thanks to the apology.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Just let it go.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Cool. Thanks for listening y'all :)

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Oh, I missed this at the time - so sorry, Heisenberg! Hope you get an alert to this? "I highly doubt that. Anyway, after this thing, there was an argument among some group members and the group basically fell out. She also cut off some other people from the group (who had nothing to do with the argument) and she has been friends with them much longer than with me. So, something quirky or distressing definitely seems to up with her. You think I should do anything now? We didn't talk or anything after she said thanks to the apology." Yes, it does sound like something is going on with her in her background that you aren't aware of and that what happened wasn't actually personal to you, but her, as you say, overreacting - which she WOULD do if she had already come to the interaction in a stressed-out, defensive state of mind. Same goes for then falling-out with many of the others. Do you know what the group argument was about, that ended the entire group(!)? And did these other people from the group, separate from the argument, tell you WHY she cut them off? Can you ask any of them?

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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I mean, it could even be - she caught-on to a horrid rumour going around the group about her, didn't know who was behind it or spreading it, and was naturally suspicious at everyone - whereupon in you come, SEEMING to be nosy, asking her about PERSONAL STUFF, and she concluded the worst - that you were part of the gossip train, now pumping her for more info. She might then have asserted herself, as if to say, no more personal information, but the fact you seemed to take it BADLY - AND PUSHED (even a bit) - made things worse. The fact you did apologise will - if this scenario IS somewhere along the lines of what happened - definitely help. Once she's calmed down and got to the bottom of things by questioning whichever members, or clues have started swiftly coming back into her recall whereby she can work the truth out for herself - maybe she'll contact you. Because - I'm with you on finding it strange that she bothered to reply Thank-you. If she really wanted no more contact, she wouldn't have done that. It could be interpreted as a tiny hint from her, to say - not really done yet, bear with me. After all, if it's just that the person has grown-up being super-polite and can't shake the habit, even in this kind of scenario, then, when you mix that with a desire not to have any more contact with you - shouldn't you end up with plain old "Ok." ? She said Thank-you. It's gentle and in this whole context, conciliatory. Put it this way: you felt encouraged by it enough to ask if that were a cue for you to re-approach her, didn't you? Don't know yet.... You might have done what was needed just with your apology, and just need to sit back and 'wait' and see. Need the answers to my questions first. But yep... YEP... If cessation of contact were all she were after, she didn't do it very straightfowardly when she so could have so.... I'm intrigued too.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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I would not consider it an overreach to contact her outside of the group. Long discussions about personal subjects, leads to the belief that you can talk to each other about these types of things. Her saying you weren't friends was kind of rude and unexpected, but she certainly got her point across. When you reacted the way you did, it was definitely an overreaction. But nobody likes to be dismissed in such a way. So while your reaction is understandable, it was also inappropriate. My advice is simple. She wanted space and to not be friends, so ignore her and move on. Still talk to the rest of the group if you so choose, but avoid any 1 on 1 time with her.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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@SoulMate Sorry I missed this message. I thought this thread was dead. Let me provide you the information you asked for first. I'll try to keep it short. So, there are three characters here. J (the one who cut me off), R (another girl who's a friend) and S (a guy also a friend who basically established this group). On on of these calls after this incident, it was R, S, me and another guy. R and S had a big argument because S said some really sexist/misogynistic things (basically saying #NotAllMen). R left the call but those two have had those type of arguments in person as well so I thought they'll make up. Now, R told J over DMs that such stuff happened and that this guy is really sexist and so on. The next day, J sent out a really long message in the group explaining why arguments for NotAllMen are faulty. It was all good stuff, nothing incorrect. S in return wrote something in defense. R exited the group. J said, "This group is not serving me anything anymore" and left. Then, I left. To be honest, the guy deserved it. He does tend to get carried away in debates and personally attacks people. Anyhow, so S and J have been good friends since college days but as far as I know, she unfollowed him everywhere as well. Also, the other guy who was on the call? Unfollowed him too. That bloke hadn't even said anything problematic. I had a chance to meet R recently and while J hadn't told her about whatever happened with me, but she had told her that she's had it with/is frustrated from two men from the group. Basically, she thinks I am a sexist asshole.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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As for your second post, you definitely read my mind over there. She did ignore my apology for like 10 days. Then just said Thanks. It wasn't an outright acceptance of the apology so I sat on it for a while. Then, a few days ago, I shot out a "Hey!" to see if things had settled and she BLOCKED me! Honestly, I do feel a bit creepy about myself for that. Though after a bug argument with any other "friend", I am generally the one to reach out and so I did.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Bear with - I'll endeavour to reply tomorrow or Sunday!

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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"To be honest, the guy deserved it. He does tend to get carried away in debates and personally attacks people. " "so S and J have been good friends since college days but as far as I know, she unfollowed him everywhere as well. Also, the other guy who was on the call? Unfollowed him too. That bloke hadn't even said anything problematic." "I had a chance to meet R recently and while J hadn't told her about whatever happened with me, but she had told her that she's had it with/is frustrated from two men from the group. Basically, she thinks I am a sexist asshole." Yup. You got lumped-in. Probably because their emotions were running so high (having felt offended as a gender, whereby all of you blokes were "the opposition"...der enemy). "She did ignore my apology for like 10 days. Then just said Thanks." "Then just said Thanks. It wasn't an outright acceptance of the apology so I sat on it for a while. Then, a few days ago, I shot out a "Hey!" to see if things had settled and she BLOCKED me!" A few days ago? Oh. It's a shame you couldn't have sat on your hands. Because I would have said to leave it and let things cool down first. Well, now you're going to have to leave it because the ball is wholly in her court. Unless you can send her an email, saying, you're sad she's disappointed but think you understand what happened, would rather not stay forevermore Amen lumped with Mr Sexist, would have appreciated a chance to disassociate yourself from an argument you took no part in, and hope she'll get in contact again some day soon, take care, etc. It's not fair to you, but - if that's what she's like (volatile, unfair and unjust) then - do you really need friends like that, and might this not be an opportunity to find more like-mindeds?

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Personally, I WOULDN'T email. Not yet, anyway. She's liable to see it purely as you 'pushing' (how convenient). You'd have to leave it a good 2 months AND make it clear it was to be the last ever communication from you, in your bid to respect her stated wishes BUT YET ALSO, not fail to stand-up for YOURSELF against what you feel is a gross injustice (because that was HIS opinion, definitely not yours). I'm with you (bar the acting too soon every time part): I believe you had a right to reply because you were falsely accused, then denied a hearing and - hey, it's not just THEIR precious feelings that matter here, is it. And it's never about gender, either. It's about Nice men and women and Not Nice men and women. (She and the other woman are probably the type who say, My ex was blonde...so that's it, I'm never dating a blonde again! You, on the other hand, sound a lot cleverer than that.) Best of luck, hope that helped at least give you some peace of mind so you can stop feeling like a creep. Although, I have to tell you: no creep is half as conscientious as you so - I think you can relax on that score. BUT (for future advice), you aren't very patient. But you're young so - big deal, it'll come.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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PS: Another tip: Don't just type Hey! Narcs do that vague and non-commital crap, and somehow it's nowadays become a habit with everyone. Far better to do it properly and say something like, Hi R, am worried about you and whether you're ok? You can be genuine AND cool, you know? :-)

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Thanks for being kind. However, my argument with her took place BEFORE whatever happened with those people. So I don't think that she was angry at the other guy and took it out on me? In fact, the week after we had that debacle, she was being a little chummy with Mr. S. I haven't been able to make sense of it. I haven't been able to completely move on from it because people being mad at me makes me really uncomfortable (definitely some self esteem issues over there and I am seeing a therapist about it).

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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"PS: Another tip: Don't just type Hey! Narcs do that vague and non-commital crap, and somehow it's nowadays become a habit with everyone. Far better to do it properly and say something like, Hi R, am worried about you and whether you're ok?" Good tip. Will keep that in mind. Oh and btw R doesn't think that way about me. We are decent friends and she told me that J clubbing me with Mr. S made no sense as she thinks I am incapable of such bad behaviour! But well, to each their own I guess.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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(Sorry, saying R instead of J was an error!) "Thanks for being kind. However, my argument with her took place BEFORE whatever happened with those people. So I don't think that she was angry at the other guy and took it out on me? In fact, the week after we had that debacle, she was being a little chummy with Mr. S. I haven't been able to make sense of it. I haven't been able to completely move on from it because people being mad at me makes me really uncomfortable (definitely some self esteem issues over there and I am seeing a therapist about it)." OH! That, I did not realise! Well, in THAT case, she must have issues. I mean... how many people all in one short space of time can one person fall-out with so rapidly, normally? Maybe it doesn't make sense because what's in her head doesn't make sense? You don't need your therapist for that bit...to know a life truth, which is - some people aren't happy unless they've always got something to be unhappy about (or someone to be mad at). Nothing you can do about that. Even after your update of data, I can't see what you're supposed to have done wrong. Normally, I can. So that tells me it can't be any reflection on you and how you are as a friend, therefore. It can't be personal. Reckon even if you got an opportunity for a live conversational apology, it wouldn't be long enough before she were pouncing onto the NEXT thing or person (maybe even you again) to react negatively at. ...That's if any sense you said even WORKED. Because here's another fact: those that DON'T secretly need and enjoy the drama (healthy and mature enough) are the ones who act desperate to discuss and get the problem sorted and LEARNED from, and (thanks to the pain during conflict) never forgotten/now automatically borne inmind, so as to avoid any future repetition, ber-bom. That's you (tick!). How is HER conflict resolution WILL (never mind skills!) impressing ya so far? I'd give her a zero out of ten, wouldn't you? You can't BE friends with that. You'll always be 2mm away from the relationship breaking again or for-good. "Constantly walking on Eggshells, anyone?" I'm sorry, but a decent young woman with an legitimate beef would be only to pleased at SOME point to explain all her reasons for being peed-off with you. IN DETAIL. Because SHE'D want justice as well as you! She can't, and neither can she justify her stance, and therefore she's avoiding you rather than seeking justice (whilst denying you Closure). Only if you'd purposely killed her cat would blocking and blanking you like that (mercenarily) be socially acceptable etiquette. So it's fine and healthy to feel uncomfortable when you've LEGIMITATELY caused someone to be mad at you. But you, you're using your conscientiousness and hard-working ethic (think Diamond Dust) too indiscriminately, whereby people who DON'T deserve it are - BASICALLY - getting the goodies of yours that you should be keeping for people who have YOUR etiquette so DO deserve it. It's all energy and it is NOT limitless (by god doesn't youth kid you it is at the time, though!). You give away that energy today (that could be saved up for later life) to those the dust can't work on and, once you're an elderly man, when feeling energetic being a rare event is your new, full-time status quo, you'll kick yourself (well, ...you'll want to but won't have the energy!). Plus, futile campaigns of action aren't good for your confidence, it's like playing a fruit-machine that's set not to let you win whatsoever, but you don't know it and expect the same chance as any other fruit-machine. Plus "being arsed to do", that energy, is as much a social currency in life as money (think about it). I would soothe yourself and your sense of unfulfilled responsibility with the knowledge that - she doesn't work right (yet?).. Because - she just had MORE than one chance to work right, yet didn't. And getting mad at you-him-and-him-too is part of that. Because she's angry at blokes and (how very dare you!) YOU'RE A BLOKE. And you're also a gentleman with high standards. That's probably your problem. You're not unattractive enough for her. Because someone like you will NOT roll over when someone's trying to deprive you of a social RIGHT. She probably could see you'd make bad Yes Man. (Phew, eh?) Anyhoo, Lockdowns are over so you won't be so reliant on e-friendships now, right?

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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PS: Should add: if she's still young, like, under 25, then - she's just a lot less mature than you (different growth rates), still, and that's why she's embracing the drama, and you should befriend women a few years older?

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PPS: "A B C D E F G....H I R K L-M-N-O P" lol!

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"I'm sorry, but a decent young woman with an legitimate beef would be only to pleased at SOME point to explain all her reasons for being peed-off with you. IN DETAIL. Because SHE'D want justice as well as you! She can't, and neither can she justify her stance, and therefore she's avoiding you rather than seeking justice (whilst denying you Closure). Only if you'd purposely killed her cat would blocking and blanking you like that (mercenarily) be socially acceptable etiquette." The only explanation she gave was communication through texting exhausts her and personal questions exhaust her more than that. It feels like someone is in her personal space and she is very protective of that. She's working on building boundaries and she hopes it makes us both comfortable going forward. In hindsight, it was a relatively calm explanation and I flipped out to it. B

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But here's the catch. She unfriended/unfollowed me on various online platforms BEFORE I sent out my angry response. So, she had already made up her mind. "PS: Should add: if she's still young, like, under 25, then - she's just a lot less mature than you (different growth rates), still, and that's why she's embracing the drama, and you should befriend women a few years older?" Haha she's older than me actually. I'm about to turn 24, she's 25 something. I am generally attracted to women slightly older than me. "Anyhoo, Lockdowns are over so you won't be so reliant on e-friendships now, right?" Yeah. Lack of outside interaction is probably what is making me hyperfixate on such quibbles.

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"The only explanation she gave was communication through texting exhausts her and personal questions exhaust her more than that. ...She's working on building boundaries and she hopes it makes us both comfortable going forward." "In hindsight, it was a relatively calm explanation and I flipped out to it. B" Calmness has zero do to with it. I could remain calm while ambushing someone with cause for huge disillusionment: an illogical, sudden withdrawal of at-the-time important e-friendship without any explanation that makes sense based on what's gone on before - and I expect you could too. So PTHRRR! to Calm. That's just wrapping paper, doesn't change that there's a pellet poo inside, does it. She out-of-the-blue SNUBBED you because you weren't going to go quietly when unfairly DISMISSED. There we go. Anyone in your position would have FELT that flip-out, but we'd have kept it in so - at least this event has proven handy for showing you where certain self-protective mental muscles need concerted working-out to more adult-like dimensions and density? Every cloud... And nothing she's done since, supports that 'going forward' crap, it does the opposite, supports the snub. Gaslighting. Mild, but still... Denying you your experience (of her having been FRIENDS with you as came with well-defined expectations and insurances). Different if she'd said, I know we WERE friends but I've decided blah. But she's making denial noises and movements to what you know was the (presented) reality, and then adding insult to injury by making you feel somehow unreasonable for having found that treatment inappropriate, unfair, unkind and basically BAD SHOW. If she were someone else's actual victim, she wouldn't have the inclination, let alone be able to bring herself, to turn around and treat someone else unkindly after having led them on. (Albeit, that doesn't means she isn't convinced she's one, of course.) So we can rule that theory out, actually. Oh wait - "But here's the catch. She unfriended/unfollowed me on various online platforms BEFORE I sent out my angry response. So, she had already made up her mind. " Oh, well, then - that settles it! You were already powerless to affect a thing and just didn't know it at the time. My verdict: You didn't do a thing wrong - you were wronged. I think the truth is, you and the group were needed during lockdown but now she's done with you and, to save face (and hide what a mercenary she is), she invented this "reason" to get offended and flounce off ....offended enough to "have to" (look what you made me do) stay that way for AGES ....until you all forgot to remember she even existed. Send her invoice for Lockdown Entertainment, go on, LOL. But then, she's only 25. She's still got a few months to a year (!) left to change her behaviour before it can be called her hard-set default, which is selfish, hard-hearted and rude (in a spoiled-baby, drama and chaos-creating way), childishly lazy-minded, bit machievellian, responsibility-dodging, cowardly....two onion bhajis and a bottle of Kingfisher (sorry, got bored with writing the list). Remember this for future ref if your parents never warned you: Abusers - or in this case, even someone using you before discarding you and blaming her decision on you - would have you believe that how you REACT to their mistreatment (- including lack of admission and sign of guilt), now takes top billing and centre stage as The Problem Between Us (- a distraction and smokescreen behind which to escape what might otherwise have led to your judgment and their facing the consequences or their shame). But what really confirms they're abusive, is if this inadequate or bad behaviour is consistently met with them trying to pin the blame on someone else or some pity-inducing sob-story, because pity disarms you (triggers your paternal instinct, which at your age you're especially susceptible to). "Yeah. Lack of outside interaction is probably what is making me hyperfixate on such quibbles." Yeah. But, even though I can tell you've found peace over it - this is still important, still something to learn from and fortify your suit of armour with. Well anyway. What a self-serving wotsit. "Neext!..." PS: "Older" is not decided by ones on-paper age. Maturity is shown in how one conducts oneself and treats ALL others equally. And being able to order a Kingfisher lager, of course. I think you're palpably sophisticated and insightful for 24. Only the lack of ability to count to 10 under-fire/ambush, calm down, THEN think through - so that you respond, not react, and intelligently, rather than negatively-emotionally aka knee-jerking - gives you away. But I still thought, about 28. So you COULD go for 27-28 if you wanted or found yourself faced with the opportunity? Although, then you definitely WOULD have to come to that table with that aforesaid muscle to a more impressive dimension. So it's an option? But then, who cares. It's not like you're trying to grow old before your time. But I do think that's the missing piece in the otherwise quite Bond-James Bond aura. Anyway, you're very nice to chat to and I enjoyed our mental network to solve this here emotional crime. Go gettem, Tiger. :-)

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Haha it's fine. I am not holding hate against her (though I do feel good that you sided with me). Apart from patience, the lesson learnt is also that better talk to people over the phone rather than text. Tones are always misunderstood. Anyway, it's great to see such old style forums still functioning. Thanks for keeping such a community alive. I'll surely be back with more problems (:-P).

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YES, THEY ARE. That is a very canny, sensible, mature decision! And one that a surprising number of people are coming to, lately, too (no doubt something to do with the Cost Of Living Crisis). Soon enough, the fact you're a Pro Phoner (made up but...let's see if it gets into mainstream vernacular LOL) will, I'm sure, make you stand out as more attractive (EE DUZ FINGS PROPER, EE DUZ :-)). Come back after a decent trial period and let us know what differences it made? PS: It's not me keeping it alive, it's Richard, the owner. He designed, wrote and funds it himself, as well - for no profit - so - if you wanted to make a wee donation then click the Support dropdown menu at the top. Or if ANYONE wants, for that matter? LOL (They're all starving and shivering over in Blighty, apparently!) PPS: Am I crazy for thinking you came here once before, about....ooh, more than 5 years back?

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"PS: It's not me keeping it alive, it's Richard, the owner. He designed, wrote and funds it himself, as well - for no profit - so - if you wanted to make a wee donation then click the Support dropdown menu at the top. Or if ANYONE wants, for that matter? LOL (They're all starving and shivering over in Blighty, apparently!)" Aah my card does not allow me. Bummer. "PPS: Am I crazy for thinking you came here once before, about....ooh, more than 5 years back?" Naah. First time. I would be sorted if I had thought such things 5 years ago lol. Also, like you said instinctually people will hold that anger in and that is what MY INSTINCT also was. But I turned to a couple of close friend coz I never know how to react in social situations and they said I should stand up for myself. I should have listened to myself!

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Stupid card! LOL It was your German-sounding name, combined with your gentlemanly air...it rang a bell. Course, I could have just looked in the archive (ducks rotten tomatoes), but - IT'S TOO HOT *AND* HIGHLY HUMID HERE IN SPAIN, OMG - AND IT'S ONLY JUNE SO WTF IS AUGUST GOING TO BE LIKE, HEEELP MEEEE (yours, Sweaty & Lethargic). You in Germany or YUK (as I've renamed it)? Like your last paragraph. People aren't aware that keeping any overpowering feelings in basically shaves years off your life. We used to think a-holes were just a-holes...just hell while we were with them. Oh, no - they leave you damaged, alright ("the gift that keeps on giving")...chip-chip-chip away at your confidence in you and how the world's supposed to work. Abnormal, over-personal stress, innit. Definitely not of the good variety when it's because you're dealing with superficial or fake friends like that one up there who try to make you think there's something wrong with YOU whenever they're treating you badly and inadequately due to bad, empty-hearted and unhealthy attitudes. You can't keep THAT in because it's literally toxic. You've got to talk it out until you can't be arsed anymore. So that's a very healthy and sensible shift you've made. Go for it. Boys who can't handle discussing their feelings together are cissies (lol) (might work? - try it? - put it back on THEM).

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"It was your German-sounding name, combined with your gentlemanly air...it rang a bell. Course, I could have just looked in the archive (ducks rotten tomatoes), but - IT'S TOO HOT *AND* HIGHLY HUMID HERE IN SPAIN, OMG - AND IT'S ONLY JUNE SO WTF IS AUGUST GOING TO BE LIKE, HEEELP MEEEE (yours, Sweaty & Lethargic). You in Germany or YUK (as I've renamed it)?" Nah I am from India. However hot and humid it is there, I assure you it is more than that here (:-P). Have got a good set of childhood friends fortunately. They always warn me about potential red flags in people (men or women) but of course I never listen to them until things go out of hand haha.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Oh - India! Interesting Indian-sounding alias there, LOL. Sounds very German. Not confusing at all, then, LOL. "However hot and humid it is there, I assure you it is more than that here (:-P)." Oh, good. Knowing you're suffering even more than me makes me suddenly feel SO MUCH COOLER, LOL LOL LOL. You should market yourself as the new hands-free, personal cool air fan - that one purchases and activates via credit-card over the phone - needing only a pre-recorded message on your part ("My heat-stroke's far bigger than your heat-stroke - thanks for calling, enjoy your purchase!", click, brrr.... LOL). (Ya daftie.) I wish it did work, I tell ya. And the forecast said we've ANOTHER heatwave coming. (Have you?) So anyway, are you saying your seasonal average has just got hotter by 10 degrees C too? Or just, your normal is still hotter than our uncharacteristic, global-warming-caused heatwave? *********** "but of course I never listen to them until things go out of hand haha." No, no, no, Monsieur - it's true you never USED to listen to them HENCE things got out-of-hand. But New You listens ('The intelligent gene-vehicle uses all the tools that the environment lays on for them - Dicky Dawkins (not verbaatim) - The Selfish Gene) (and the good friend shows faith and trust in his friends and their judgement because it's psychologically good for them while could save you heaps of headaches-on-legs - verbatim - me just now, LOL). Old You got mistreated and, when you said Ow, blamed for it. New You knows how to avoid that/them now (she'll have left signs you can retro-spot). By making healthy use of the good tools so as to have your hands too full to pick up bad ones. Meanwhile, if ever you want a very clear sign of whether something is off or not, wrong or not, unhealthy or not, but your friends aren't available - just ask yourself: Would *I* ever dare, or lower myself, to do or say such a thing or behave in such a way to another person, especially a friend, and a new or budding one at that? If the answer is no, then, there's your answer. Because, above all else - toxicity or not - you and anyone have to have morals and principles in-common, not purely circumstance, or it won't bond properly or last '5 minutes'. So what did your friends say in this particular case?

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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It definitely seems hotter than usual. I remember one or two years ago I only needed to turn on the air conditioner after like 1 pm. Now, I have it on by 10-11 am and pretty much running all through the day (further worsening the environment). We had one of the worst heatwaves ever! Temperatures at some places touched (50 degrees Celsius). Fortunately, I live near the coast, so it's not THAT bad. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Meanwhile, if ever you want a very clear sign of whether something is off or not, wrong or not, unhealthy or not, but your friends aren't available - just ask yourself: Would *I* ever dare, or lower myself, to do or say such a thing or behave in such a way to another person, especially a friend, and a new or budding one at that?" That sounds like a good test! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "So what did your friends say in this particular case?" Well, the two closest people to me who pretty much know everything about me said they found her weird from the beginning (and they did tell me so). Ohw and after the whole incident, they were of the opinion that my response was actually TONED DOWN than what it needed to be. They have a good reason to believe so since I read the exact chats to them whereas here I have only described it vaguely according to my perception.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Fifty degrees? Good God, that would kill me! And it's bloody expensive, aircon, isn't it. Also makes my head feel ill - I've no idea why - so I tend to use a floor-standing fan and intermittently spray myself, particularly all my pulse point, with a plant mister containing cold water. What went through your head when (presumably separately?) these two friends told you honestly how they felt? Did it give you reservations or just intrigue you further?

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Haha yes. Makes me feel ill too sometimes. I open up a window for some time with the ac on. Not ideal but works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ummm haven't given it that much conscious thought. Firstly, my best friends are a couple. I can generally see and understand their rationale and their concern but I don't know when it actually comes to implementing it, my instinct takes over and I end up doing the wrong thing. Also, our experiences have been varied. They don't hang out with the kind of people I do and vice versa so I tend to give new people (like the one above) the benefit of doubt. They certainly have more experience of dealing with people and social situations so generally they do tend to be right with people skill stuff.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Yep, I have to do that, have the window open a crack, if I need it on in the car. Anyhoo... As it turns out that people being 'different types' doesn't impede this couple's ability to see through them, one iota, and they're already good friends of yours, I'd be using them (e.g. a double-date) to secretly screen every single potential beau or friend I met! I mean - what a life feature you've been wasting: a built-in radar on 'four' legs! LOL Some people would cut off their right arm to be able to outsource that kind of hassle! Usually, the ones that have already experienced what it's like getting in far deeper than you did with a gobsmackingly selfish and immature individual (painful, basically...very, very painful), and tend not to ever want to go there again. Because, really, the best cure is avoiding getting involved them in the first place. Meanwhile, you could be studying up on that type and their behaviour and learn the tell-tale signs second-hand from the really indepth, personal accounts (including some clinical experts), whereby you might then start to recognise other aspects that align with and support with your friends' gut instinct. It might, however (only because it's so common), be that your gut instinct IS to ignore warnings SO THAT you can get to sample a narc or overly narcissistic type for yourself, for-real and in real time?...Maybe to better understand someone you're close to who went to Hell and back, romantically, with one and perhaps is still struggling with the aftermath? IOW, maybe your 'deepie-downies' feel a need to walk a mile in their shoes?

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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"I'd be using them (e.g. a double-date) to secretly screen every single potential beau or friend I met!" That is a good idea hah! "Meanwhile, you could be studying up on that type and their behaviour and learn the tell-tale signs second-hand from the really indepth . . . " The funny thing is that my lady best friend used to be such a person herself back when we were teenagers! But she recognized it after a few years and so now she can spot such behavior from a mile away. I do have a pattern for getting close to narcissistic people (not just women but some men too). R, that I mentioned a few messages ago. I had a complicated "friendship" with her too and my lady best friend had warned me about her too saying that she is toxic. In that case, I did summon up the courage to say screw you if you treat me like this to R. "Maybe to better understand someone you're close to who went to Hell and back, romantically, with one and perhaps is still struggling with the aftermath?" Yes that person is me LoL

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Oh is it, indeed? AND? (What is this - striptease? LOL) PS: Having the seeming fortune to have spotted their evil twin and (unconsciously) using them to re-enact the relationship (or certainly the final acts) in the hope of this time getting (or being able to work out) explanations, isn't uncommon, either.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I apologise?

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Oh no I haven't been in relationships with such people but I do have a tendency to get drawn towards narcissistic or toxic personalities now that I think about it. In fact, this best friend that I have, I was mad about her when we were teenagers and back when she was (in her own words) self-obsessed. But when reconnected years later and she had turned "normal", there was no attraction. "PS: Having the seeming fortune to have spotted their evil twin and (unconsciously) using them to re-enact the relationship (or certainly the final acts) in the hope of this time getting (or being able to work out) explanations, isn't uncommon, either." Yup that's probably true. This friend was the first girl I seriously liked and she pretty much set the template for the kind of women I got attracted to for the next one two years at least. Bold, outspoken that kind. With the girl mentioned in the question (J), I thought I had finally broken out of my type coz she was quite what we could call traditionally "feminine" but as per your (and my friends') judgement, seems like she is the same.

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