I haven't dated much at all..In fact I've seen a counselor who diagnosed this as an actual phobia. I also have a diagnosed anxiety disorder and doing pretty well with therapy and meds except for the dating part. I'm older to have these fears, in my 30s, and as a result haven't moved on past kissing, not even so much as making out. I did have a relationship earlier this year where I did kiss and cuddle a bit, making me feel like I can in fact date if I can find someone willing to let me go at my own pace as it took me a long time to be comfortable even kissing. Things didn't work out with this guy but as a result I decided to try dating more.
I met someone online and we both felt like we had a real connection. He had to go out of town for work right after we started chatting and only coming back in a few weeks so haven't had a chance to actually meet in person. We've talked a lot though and I was very honest at first about my issues and the space I'll need which he said he was fine with.
His job is very demanding and he's been dealing with very little sleep as well so I know he's stressed out. The problem is that he's been steering the conversation more and more to a sexual nature which I've repeatedly told him I'm not comfortable with. We had a big argument the last couple of days because I've told him to stop sending me these messages and he continues, saying he needs to push me out of my comfort zone and doesn't need to justify anything. I want to talk about how we each feel but he's refused and says I'm blowing things out of proportion. He suggested we stop communication until he comes back and sees if I'm still hung up on discussing boundaries or if we can just "go with the flow".
I feel like he isn't taking my real anxieties seriously and thinks I just need to be pushed. I'm concerned this could mean he won't listen to my own boundaries in person now, I've told him that it feels like assault anytime I've tried to force myself to kiss someone I'm not comfortable around and he seemed to balk at that. I don't know if I even want to see him now though I don't know if I'm being unreasonable or not because I know my own feelings aren't the norm.
I agree with you. I don't think he's taking your anxieties seriously, he's disrespectful of your feelings, he's communicating sexual things - and you haven't even actually met in person. I've been around the block a few times - I'm very comfortable with my sexuality. Someone who doesn't stop when asked, as a matter of fact, someone who is insisting on discussing that before we met would be someone I wouldn't care to know. It's not up to him to push you 'out of your comfort zone.' This is a matter to be handled with a professional, which you are doing.
I'd agree with his suggestion that you stop communication with him - permanently - and I don't think you'd be missing out on much. He sounds kind of like a jerk.
Yup. He's trying to push against your boundary fences until they fall flat on the ground - by getting you to "do it or you're a babyish coward, unadventurous, whatever..., need to be taken out of your comfort zone" (says pigging who!). Boundary-eroding..smashing is one of the more well-known, main, tactical (Priming/Taming/Enslaving) behaviours of a Narcissist.
He sounds like a Vulnerable-Covert aka Compassionate: pretending to care and be helpful (at first)) when the opposite is true (which you soon start to increasingly find out, the more trapped you become) and their intentions gobsmackingly selfish, self-centred, mean, nasty, bullying, head-messing (gaslighting)... Depends on their degree and whether they're Benign or Malignant. But they literally - and I do mean literally - care for nothing and no-one except for themselves. Any appearances otherwise are pure pretence. Their way of wheedling and manipulating you, out of the way of - YOU. So that they can control you like a master puppeteer and ruin your life and happiness (it gets them what they want and sod how anyone else feels about it, and makes them feel big - yes - "cuckoo!").
If they have that overblown amount of natural narcissism (self-protectiveness) to the point where it's diagnosable as NPD - RUN. These are the Malignants.
What he's trying to do to right now is called Sexual Coercion. And he's using Shame and his air of Superiority (never earned, never substantiated). If you feel ashamed and inferior for not being "cool enough" for his liking, you will choose to give in rather than risk losing him as per the subtle threat contained in how he's worded his statement.
And because you've stood your ground by CONTINUING (Gold star, missus!) to repeatedly insist he stop sending attempted-sexually-coercive messages, he's threatened you with a spell of his absence PLUS wanting to now just drop it (which means, until next time when you're leasting expecting it or are down/tired). So it's a double-threat as well: If you're insisting on CLOSING this topic on your verdict ("NO"), thereby setting that boundary in stone where he's concerned, he'll give you a little taster of 'no more him in your life' (GOOD!) until by the time he reappears, you'll be so desperate to keep him you'll agree to anything (DON'T). And then you'll do what makes him feel good but you feel bad, and find to your shock that you will never be allowed to change your mind about it ever again (or you'll be punished again like he's just now trying to do). If you still won't give in then he won't meet you (GOOD!).
If you ever tell him anything ever again, tell him he needs to go back to school until he learns the chasmic difference between a comfort zone (adventurousness - e.g. trying a new food or job) and a personal boundary (your only protection in life from other people including and especially downright nasty ones LIKE HIM from invading your personal and sexual space to point of harmful offense). When I read his gross liberty-taking demands I spat my coffee (it's alright - Black shirtb LOL).
Note how he isn't displaying ANY signs of his being worried he could put YOU off, like a man who genuinely DID like and fancy you and want a proper relationship with. Bit strange, don't you think? And no normal man would dare make demands on you when he HASN'T EVEN MET YOU?! What's that if not HUGE over-entitlement (and in an offensive way). TICK!
He's also "minimising your feelings" about it, look (TICK!) - this-this THING who doesn't even KNOW you because he hasn't even MET you. And the bit you think YOU'VE got to know - clearly is a fake persona! Here, tell him you'll think about it IF he agrees to walk down his High Street wearing full, female make-up and hair (applied by you) and tarty clothing - him first. Fair swap? Then tell him to grow up and stop trying to Lord-it over you (and probably every other woman he meets).
He doesn't want to meet you because you're his "warmed-on-the-side". A normal bloke with normal dating agenda would have LOVED to have met you by now...the copious communicating would have heralded that. Trust me, even a malig narcissist, if he thought he needed you as his Primary Supply (go google), would want to meet you. So, no, he's trying to prime you then plonk you warm on the side. He's working on someone else how - hence the convenience of needing to turn a break into a break from YOU to teach you a lesson for having answered back or downright refused his demand. Gosh, how very dare you not do as you're told when you're told by a complete stranger. I doubt it's work. Unless women he dates (or doesn't even!) ARE his job, of course (in which case he's a full NPD AsPD Sociopath).
No normal, healthy, decent man who was after a relationship - or even if he wasn't! - would treat and talk to a new woman like that - NO WAY, JO-SE. Shocking!
Heeeeee's BONKERS. On TOP of bonkers. That or he must think you're VERY desperate for any sort of boyfriend (which would make him less bonkers but more evilly heartless and selfish, i.e. sadistic - and he DOES give a whiff of that already).
Plus the OUTRAGEOUS, SMUG, COCKINESS - that he doesn't need to justify anything. WHAT-AH?! Oh yeah he DOES when he's been stamping on your toes and refusing to stop. But - SUPERIORITY AND ATTEMPT TO DOMINATE, IN THE FORM OF GOBSMACKING ARROGANCE. He thinks he's too special for normal social rules (this case, yours), has no etiquette, etc., is issuing threats, but can't even bother to meet you FOR-REAL... in fact he's acting like a SCUMBAG...plus he's bully. Tick-tick-tick-tick-tick......
Malignant. Low-Functioning. Dangerous Creep and furtive, surreptitious Bully. Normally they AT LEAST have a suitcase full of Justifications & Excuses at the ready but this guy's not even bothering! YUCK! Secret football thug with serious psychological disturbance, anyone?
I mean it.
DUMP THE DUD. And in one fell swoop - CUT ALL CONTACT - ALL OF IT - OR JUST GO QUIET AND CEASE ANSWERING (the former is better for you because I really don't like this one). And think about this: if he's that dud when he hasn't even a met a woman (let alone do the work involved to make her WANT TO KISS HIM! - when it's HER decision If and When OR WHETHER!...THAT'S THE POINT OF MEETING UP EVERY WEEK) - OMG, imagine what he'd be like when he DID have "possession" over you!
On the other hand, he might have never had any intention of dating you but will engage and keep you engaged to make his (or any of his) girlfriend feel threatened enough to do his bidding, and at the same time, enjoy engaging you by repeatedly insulting and offending you (and your sense of safety of self-protection) and your adult-ness and your right to make your own decisions and do what YOU please or not what you DON'T - and tough titty to him. Them's the rules. It's OUR reality, not theirs. They even try to re-write and misuse our very reality and regarding what's normal and acceptable or not. BLEUGH.
He may as well just say, If you want to date me you have to prove it by putting your hand in a bucket of spiders. You'd say - EFF-OFF CREEP!...WHACKO! (maybe in a polite way, maybe not...and having that choice is normal when a man is offensive to any woman, even if SHE doesn't want to snog him despite she's just snogged every other man in the room. It's her life, her mind, her body, her decision entire and exclusively. Any man who wants to get the keys to your inner castle had better be nice and understanding and patient and prove it by behaving consistently like it, then, eh). This one won't, though. He's not interested in feelings (yours). He doesn't care if you have them or not - they do not factor in his head. You aren't a person to him any more than any other person. He thinks life's a warped supermarket sweep, shoving women in his trolley!
I think you need to look at the last few months of Lily's thread (Parents Splitting Up) - at Von Crap. Think of him as this bloke's dad.
Try this blog extract from Was It Me ( https://wasitme.blog/).
The writer's talking about Vulnerables (self-pitying - genuinely or as a ploy) as opposed to Grandiose (boastful e.g. "don't need to justify" and in-your-face domineering....pushy-push-push-push-hidden-tantrum-product-of-tantrum-isn't-ashamed-and-apologises-has-a-go-instead-then-issues-punishment-as-lesson...like he's thinks he's some god OR YOUR DAD!). Her descriptions apply to all/any narcs in any setting but you'll get the gist and the important parts:
"The compassionate narcissist isn’t a narcissistic person who has suddenly found empathy. They are a narcissistic person who will pretend to be care about something in order to exploit someone.
In general, narcissistic people lack empathy for those around them. They only care about themselves. However, they will happily use the struggles of those around them in order to create further conflict and chaos and disorder within the world to meet an agenda of their own.
The compassionate narcissistic person more covertly acts like they care in order to gain sympathetic attention, admiration or play the victim when people take a stand against them.
The compassionate narcissist would look like they are protecting someone or look like they’re protecting a religion, a culture, a race, a belief, a gender, often by attacking the very people who don’t, then playing the woe is me victim who’s been attacked when the very people they’re attacking call them out, with claims such as “I’m only trying to help.” Or “it’s only because I care.”"
And this one:
"Narcissistic personality disorder is defined as someone who doesn’t have empathy about how their behavior and actions affect the people in their life. They have an intense need for admiration and exhibit patterns of grandiosity. They often can’t accept responsibility and tend to dominate relationships in their life.
NPD is a relatively common mental health condition in the United States, and it’s more prevalent in men than women. People with this disorder feel entitled to use people freely and openly in their life. You can feel empowered by learning how to respond to their demanding, intrusive, and controlling behavior by setting firm, standing boundaries.
Narcissistic personality disorder and boundaries may seem impossible, but you can do it. Here are some boundaries you may want to put in place to protect yourself from a “narcissistic mother,” “narcissistic father,” or partner.
It’s important to note, if you’re in a relationship (whether romantic or familial) with someone with narcissistic personality disorder and it’s become abusive or toxic, boundaries may not be enough. If you’re unsafe, you need to remove yourself from the relationship as soon as possible.
Don’t let them talk to you any way they want
Someone with narcissistic personality disorder might try to use their words to hurt you. If you’re uncomfortable with how you’re being spoken to, you’re within your rights to say I need you to not talk to me this way."
You did that last one - well done. Go in to see the rest (and keep surfing from there).
You will BE ABLE to date - including elect to snog your Saturdays away if you get the right bloke - you wait, you'll see! - WHEN YOUR PSYCHE IS READY TO thus lets you - and not a second beforehand. It will send the Memo to you in this format: You: "Ooh, I hope he kisses me goodbye?".
VOILA. If it ain't happened yet, it's probably because you've got quite unique genes and have a smaller (but higher quality) pool to fish from but haven't yet had the urge and chance to put any effort into fishing/being fished.
If you're behind schedule (er - whose?...can't be yours? - THIS is yours) then that's probably simply that you had too many other, more vital things to get a handle on (even purely mentally) beforehand. So you're not behind YOUR schedule, are you.
You're BEHIND.....HIS. He's got warming-up and plate-spinning to do.
Next time/block, DON'T give them previews of your entire personality and "issues". Wait until the bloke looks as if he's ready to TRY to kiss you and then just say, I'm sorry but it's too soon for me. If he asks When, say, I don't know because that's up to my psyche to know or decide, but I'll keep you posted, obviously (make it a cute joke - normal bloke will respond well, a normal bloke would realise you're delicate in that area and respond sweetly with kid gloves... Narc won't).
(Sorry for any going on and on and direct repetitions but I'm up against it.)
Quick PS though: for all you know, the reason why you guard your mouth and kisses so well is because your genes contain Royalty. Makes sense, then, doesn't it! Might want to do a genetic family tree and find out! :-)
"You: "Ooh, I hope he kisses me goodbye?".
This is enough enthusiasm for a kiss to happen, but if the above were a woman who HADN'T become phobic about her (needlessly) negative, horrid-feeling EMOTIONS about her outward demonstration of her sense of rare preciousness and worth, called guarded reticence aka High Ladylikeness - she'd sound (in her head, obviously) more like this: "PHWOOOOAR! KISS-ME-KISS-ME-KISS-ME!"
It's all good. You're just a lady hence protecting yourself like one by behaving like one - regardless of circumstance. Didn't you realise?
Are you perhaps swimming in the wrong pool and getting hooked by idiots with no manners, i.e. bits of rough?
PS: The bloke that gets to be the first to (eventually) get properly intimate with you is going to feel SOOOOOOOO privileged and so in awe of your ability to wait (LOL even if your Conscious Mind doesn't like it!). :-)