SURELYINSECURE - Apr 28 2023 at 02:54
My manager said that she was going to hire this girl that I knew from my previous job. I strongly advised my manager against hiring her because I knew how she was - especially when she was orienting new people. She was a bully. She would talk down on orientees and they would often leave before their orientation. I told my manager about this. However, she said unless HR was involved, she said she couldn’t really take that into consideration. (especially since nothing has been documented). I feel like this is unfair. The person who was bullied was afraid to speak up. However, she did notify the manager. The manager in turn, never took it to HR. She just quit the job before finishing orientation.
This “bully” is technically qualified for the job. But she does not have the right attitude to teach and to work with a team. I DO NOT want to work with this person AGAIN. How can I convince my manager not to hire her? Or do I have to contact HR myself because my manager isn’t listening to me?
With all due respect, this is not your call. If "Karen" (apologies to nice women named Karen) is a bully, the new hires will say something - or move on. If enough of them do either of these things, Karen will be in the hot seat.
In you second pargraph, only *one* person seemed to have been hectored into leaving. That's not a pattern of behavior. Maybe you were unusually close to her, maybe she wasn't destined to do whatever it was the business was about. One person isn't a pattern. The question this brought to my mind is, if *you saw a pattern,* why didn't YOU go to your manager or HR?
It's not that I'm not sympathetic. I worked for someone who had *a pattern* of ignoring company policy, stealing, and throwing the people she supervised under the bus. I quit. I calmed down. I wrote a letter to the company president, with names, dates, (contemporaneous documentation is my friend). A week later, I got a call from loss prevention. Soon, she was gone.
If your 'Karen' wasn't fired from her previous job, there are no red flags to management. Sometimes people slip through the creacks, but the boss has the final say. BTW, we had an experience at my current job: someone came in and applied, and when his references were called, they gave stellar (!) recommendations. He was just terrible. He was fired in two weeks. The assistant manager wanted to fire him after ONE week, but - she's not the boss.
I appreciate your response. I know I have no control over new hires. And it’s almost unfair because these managers aren’t on the unit to actually work with these people. In fact a complaint has been made for this particular worker and the manager ignored it because he needs staff. So it was never escalated to HR.
So, *one* complaint? Sorry, ONE person who doesn't get along with a trainer isn't grounds for referring this up the chain.
You don't like this person. Duly noted. Apparently no one else complained, and the other people (the staff who were needed) managed to make it through orientation.
That makes the one complaining look like she can't handle the job. And frankly, if YOU know so much about this and have so much information to impart, you were derelict in not talking to the manager yourself. It sounds like you know one 'girl' (even you don't refer to her as a woman) who wimped out of orientation.
First of all, you don’t even know the entire story. It wasn’t just one person. There were AT LEAST 2 people who oriented under this girl who DID NOT finish orientation and decided to go with another job. All those people who decided to leave felt that they did not have power over the situation because they were just orienting and this girl is a full time employee who has been working for at least 2 years in this department. FYI ALL the people who oriented under this girl LEFT THE JOB. The ones who STAYED in the job did not orient under this girl.
Secondly, I call her a girl because she is immature for bringing cliques into a professional setting so no, she is NOT a woman.
Thirdly, I was not the one who experienced the bullying FIRSTHAND so I don’t understand exactly what the other person went through during orientation. I just know that she was A BULLY. My words would have no meaning unless the person who experienced it voiced out themselves.
Lastly you should stop giving unwarranted comments and/or advice if I can even say that because it just sounds like you’re trying to attack me for being “derelict in not talking to the manager.”
I appreciate your assumption of the situation thank you for your response.
I'm sorry. It sounded like you knew so much about the situation, but did nothing.
"My words would have no meaning unless the person who experienced it voiced out themselves."
You are abolutely right about that.
"so I don’t understand exactly what the other person went through during orientation. I just know that she was A BULLY." You know what an unhappy person(s?) told you, unless she bullied you as well, which apparently, she didn't.
Again, I'm confused. Two people quit, or more? Your original post was about "The person who was bullied." That's one person.
"First of all, you don’t even know the entire story." Absolutely correct. All I have to go on is what you've posted - no more. I'm not psychic.
Let me tell you somthing that happened when I was in my twenties.
I worked in a large department store. One day, a sad colleague came into my department, and after conducting the usual business, she said, "Did you hear? They're makeing Old John quit his job." Everyone liked John. He was approaching retirement. He was friendly, helpful, everything you'd want in a co-worker.
A few hours later, John's department manager came in. We did what we needed to do, and I asked, "Hey Deidre, why is personnel is forcing John to quit?" Deidre sighed. She said, "you can't tell anyone this, but that's not the whole story."
It seemed John and his wife had managed their money carefully and had enough to go on cruises - long cruises. The previous year he had taken four one-month cruises. Hey, good for John and his wife. He had a leave of absence for each of his vacations, and when the corporate office found out about it, personnel was told no, this isn't right. John had effectively accrued 12 months of seniority/service for his retirement, but *had only worked 8 months.* That's not fair to his colleagues or the company's bottom line. So he had been told that the next time he left, it would be recorded as John leaving his job. He was told they would be thrilled to have him back after each trip and explained about the seniority issue.
He didn't tell the *whole* story to his co-workers, though. They were understandably upset, but they didn't know the reasoning behind what was going on.
I'm sure you mean well - but if you didn't witness or have first-hand knowledge of what happened, I'm puzzled as to how you concluded the person or persons telling you this were telling the [whole] truth. Clique-ish behavior is a clue, but not proof. I'm drop-dead certain that the person fired from our business has told everyone he knows that he was treated unfairly. He wasn't. He simply didn't do much work, even with a typewritten list of simple tasks to follow.
It's not as if people don't have recourse now. There are various places to rate employers. Further, I told you how I actually DID get someone fired. Every day "Elvira" did something to humiliate/lower morale for her subordinates, I wrote it in a notebook I kept at home. Every time she quietly told a customer to get service from her at her home instead of the store, I wrote it down. When she tried to make it look like I wasn't following corporate policy, I photocopied stuff and recorded the incident in my notebook. When I told Elvira's supervisors about her actions and they blew me off, I wrote that down, too. I dated everything so it showed an ongoing pattern of behavior. I had *a lot of information, names, dates, times,* to give loss prevention. It was a half hour phone call.
When the corporate bigwigs came in, Elvira was asked her side of the story, then they laid out what I had told them. Not only was she escorted from the bulding, her supervisors were reprimanded, too, for allowing this to go on. That's how you get rid of folks that are toxic.
The good(?) news is, if you observe poor behavior on her part (or support the victims in the actions I've outlined above) you may get another chance to have her face consequences. Just be very careful, as you've already mentioned this to management, that it never, ever, looks as if you are stirring the pot. You've already gone on record as not liking her, which is not a good position for you to be in if she accepts the job and ends up working for you.
Would I warn my current employer about 'Elvira?'. You bet - but I have the history of documenting her behavior, which I observed and experienced myself.