My husband lost his mum a couple of weeks ago and at first he was upset but now he has because so angry, I know anger is normal in grief but all of his anger is being aimed at me. He has become so nasty and quite verbally abusive, when he has been I have either walked away (but this makes him worse) or said please don’t talk to me like that, I know you are hurt but that is just not okay. He since relaxed, but tonight he has started again and now saying that he doesn’t want to be with me because of how horrible so have been to him when he has needed me the most, when I apologised and asked what I have done he told me things that either he did or stuff that hasn’t happened.
He has done things like this before either when he is stressed or when I had miscarriages.
Has anyone experienced this? I just don’t know what to do, how to be or how to help?
just wanted to let you know that I've read and re-read your forum entry and I'm thinking of you.
I don't feel that I personally have enough experience of this type of situation so I'm unable to give you helpful advice.
I just wanted to check in with you and let you know that I'm here during this tough time if you need to vent.
Talk about what is going on and I can be a good listener. A friend far away who you'll never meet but
cares about what you are going through. That is the only comfort I can provide.
He's being Abusive, no doubt about it. Especially if you walking away winds him up FURTHER (which is the opposite to its normal effect).
I agree you should tell DD everything, get it off your chest. And then I HIGHLY...THOROUGHLY...COMPLETELY recommend, nay, URGE you to read Lundry Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That (Inside The Minds Of Angry Men)". All the answers you seek are in there (and then some!).
If I have time, I'll jump in.
Alternatively, but equally unputdown-able, is Mira Kirshenbaum's "Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay". Shorter and straight to the point. (Maybe Mira first, followed by Lundy, would be the better way around.)
You'll find his behaviour described and explained, along with what to do about it, in both of those.
(Big thanks for responding again, DD :))
PS: What kind of man has a GO at his partner, not least when it's SHE who's just suffered a miscarriage!... and then does it all over again! How Me-Me-Me, hard-hearted, cruel and selfish is that!
"when I apologised and asked what I have done he told me things that either he did or stuff that hasn’t happened."
Google Narcissistic Projection & Blame-Shifting. Not saying he's "a" Narcissist. But he is definitely BEHAVING it.
Tsk - Lundy, not Lundry (stupid laptop keyboards!) - and "...Angry & Controlling Men".
PS: Here's a review quote:
"In this groundbreaking bestseller, Lundy Bancroft—a counselor who specializes in working with abusive men—uses his knowledge about how abusers think to help women recognize when they are being controlled or devalued, and to find ways to get free of an abusive relationship.
He says he loves you. So...why does he do that?
You’ve asked yourself this question again and again. Now you have the chance to see inside the minds of angry and controlling men—and change your life. In Why Does He Do That? you will learn
• The early warning signs of abuse
• The nature of abusive thinking
• Myths about abusers
• Ten abusive personality types
• The role of drugs and alcohol
• What you can fix, and what you can’t
• And how to get out of an abusive relationship safely
“This is without a doubt the most informative and useful book yet written on the subject of abusive men. Women who are armed with the insights found in these pages will be on the road to recovering control of their lives.”—Jay G. Silverman, Ph.D., Director, Violence Prevention Programs, Harvard School of Public Health"
And - Myra:
"To make up or break up? Whether you’re just getting serious or have a long-term commitment, no other question causes so much heartache and self-doubt. Many other books tell you how to fix your relationship. This groundbreaking best seller is the first one to help you choose whether you should try—or you need to go.
Psychotherapist Mira Kirshenbaum draws on years of research and her work with real-life couples to help you make the right decision. She shows you how to diagnose your unique situation with self-analysis and questions like these, which get to the very heart of your problems:
What sins are forgivable and which ones unpardonable?
Is your partner questioning your opinions to the point where you doubt yourself?
What is your sex life really like, and how important is it?
Is there real love left between you, and how does it stack up against all that you find unlovable?
Mira Kirshenbaum provides expert guidelines that are the key to making all your choices, concrete steps that you can implement right now, and the ultimate way to determine your personal bottom line—what you need to be happy. This remarkably insightful and probing guide offers advice that lets you see the truth about your relationship—and with wisdom and compassion, it helps you act with the confidence of knowing that, whether you decide to go or stay, you are doing the very best thing.
it seems, your husband have some pshycological issues
also, try your best, to make him happy,
LookingForSunshine, are you still there?
Thank you all so much for taking the time to read and reply.
There is still no change and each day is an emotional rollercoaster. Today he even upstaged it by saying his next partner will be better than me and can show me how to act and treat someone.
I’m so lost and just don’t know what to do. What makes it worse was yesterday he was I’ll and all I did was nurse him throughout the night, and to get told that today was very hurtful
Be with you shortly, bear with!
I found out he has been emailing his ex, who the whole time I’ve known him (he was my best friend before we got together) he hated and she was so horrible and toxic to him and they parted on bad terms. Some of the emails he mentioned how grateful he is and how he would like a cuddle from her and how she has been such a help with his grief. What do I do? I’m so lost and hurt and helpless
"There is still no change and each day is an emotional rollercoaster. Today he even upstaged it by saying his next partner will be better than me and can show me how to act and treat someone."
((Disgusting pig. Way he behaves - he's not fit to have a partner!))
But...All you're saying is, your abusive husband is still being abusive.
Don't react. He's talking BS, including accusing you of being the opposite of what you are and bust a gut to always be. It's meant to get a rise out of you. He feels like having a massive, hours-long fight.
Just keep blanking him, after telling him ONCE you won't be spoken to like that (then abbreviate it to "Nope!" with your palm held up and out in the direction of his face). Leave the room if necessary (but don't march angrily). But if it makes him crank it up (trying harder) - you refuse to engage, harder...go outdoors or in your car. DIG THOSE FEET...RIGHT *IN*. If he can't get a rise out of you, no matter what, then, he will at some point get bored of trying.
Google "going Grey Rock".
He'll just have to deal with it another way, won't he (if he even can).
Pack yourself an emergency overnight bag with a change of clothes in your car. You probably won't ever need it but it's about the confidence it gives you to stand firm/walk out.
"I’m so lost and just don’t know what to do."
I know... (((((hug)))))
"What makes it worse was yesterday he was I’ll and all I did was nurse him throughout the night, and to get told that today was very hurtful"
This is what abusive men are like. You never accrue any Love Credits in his Love Bank because it has a giant hole in it.
You have to get with the programme. Coverts are the type that CAN keep a relationship going long-ish term. Because they're so subtle and never push hard enough to get fired..... lots and lots and lots and lots of "too petty" to leave. Until the day your tolerance bucket reaches Full and overflows.
This can't be his first offence, though. Just the biggest, ever - correct? Have you looked back yet and spotted the tiny little Red Flag(s) that pointed to this eventually?
How many years married? And - total romantic relationship?
"I found out he has been emailing his ex, who the whole time I’ve known him (he was my best friend before we got together)"
Yup, he's a cheating Narc, alright. So sorry.
She probably isn't even aware she's his ex. I wouldn't put it past a Narc cheater.
Well, anyway, that explains why he's Demonizing you. Google "why do cheating partners demonize their partners" or "why cheaters demonize their innocent partners".
"he hated and she was so horrible and toxic to him"
So he said.
And he's been continually lying to you, hasn't he. Everyone knows it's a Giant No-No to keep communicating with your ex once you'e in your new relationship, without your current's knowledge and free will permission (although then one would have to wonder what was wrong with HER).
So - unless you know for a fact, had evidence - the Liar claimed his ex was the horrible and toxic one.
Well, even if she was: he ain't much better, is he!
"and they parted on bad terms."
Evidently not. Or, not in a way that didn't leave her susceiptible to being Hoovered the minute it suited him.
"Some of the emails he mentioned how grateful he is and how he would like a cuddle from her and how she has been such a help with his grief. What do I do? I’m so lost and hurt and helpless"
Was it easy to find and read emails, by any chance? Because that, to me, sounds like it was written for YOUR benefit as much as hers.
He's playing you both off of one another...trying to start a competition....Best, Highest-Bidding Lackey Wins.
Tell him you'll give 5p for him. Because you need your shoes cleaned. Because he sh*t on them. ....No, wait - he's not FIT to touch his shoes.
What would YOU want to tell him?
What you do (when there are too many big dealbreakers) is get a recommendation off any trusted friend or acquaintance for one or three solicitors who are very au fait with Narcissistic spouses, marriages and divorces, and whom offer the initial consultation free, preferrably. It's just a chat to describe what separation and divorce involve and how you'll be financially protected during the entire proceedings, and what you stand to make in the settlement. DO NOT BREATHE A WORD TO HIM. But anyway, most come out, clicking their heels and ready to put their now-giant foot RIGHT down (finally)! A lasting, confidence and sense of safety and security turbo-boost...which, if you think about it, is what's missing/has been stripped from you by him, making this, a strategic counteractive move.....unt zen I will meet you on ze bridge with ze secret microfiche, Comrad. ;)
"oday he even upstaged it by saying his next partner will be better than me and can show me how to act and treat someone.""
Mind you, if he's talking Next Partner then yours and his relationship (FAUX-lationship, says the evidence!) is Over.
Can you think about packing his bags and leaving them outside when he's at work, having the same day got the front door lock changed or a new one added (and whichever other doors into the house he might have keys for)?
You actually have all the power here to do what you damn well like and see fit...He's broken the marital contract so that's that. He's at your mercy, despite he's trying desperately to play Despot-Torturer (to keep your confidence from marching you to said solicitor). In fact, if he never dumped his "ex-not-ex", left her primed to be picked back up, or kept seeing (using) her but as "exes" ....whichever - he signed the contract under false pretenses so, technically, that's fraud and 'misappropriating your life'. (His name isn't Philip Schofield, is it? Haha.)
PS: He'll also be trying to start a fight so as to manufacture a "great excuse" to flounce off (to his ex's) and keep her plate still spinning.
This is a very typical NPD dance. You'll find it all over the web.
PPS: Just to remind you of the obvious.
Genuinely Decent, Nice, mentally healthy, loving guys don't 'grieve' like this. Could't. It'd make them feel ten times worse.
(Keep saying that.)
(And write that letter here. As stinky as you like. It'll be invaluable to you as we go.)
Here you go...
((double parenthesis mine))
Cheating is a big part of narcissistic abuse. We can rarely speak in absolutes so we won’t say that all narcissists cheat, but it is a very common occurrence among romantic narcissistic relationships.
When caught cheating, there are a number of different manipulation tactics that narcissists use to invalidate the reality of the person who caught them. Through invalidation, they’re able to protect their grandiose public persona from being contradicted by their own unfaithfulness.
This article is a thorough exploration of all of the manipulation tactics that cheating narcissists use to invalidate the reality of those who could potentially expose them for their unfaithfulness.
10 Manipulation Tactics That Narcissists Use When They Are Caught Cheating
In this section of the article you can expect to learn about flying monkeys, projection, hoovering, gaslighting, baiting, narcissistic rage, discarding, future faking, stonewalling, and self-victimization!
Projection is a defense mechanism that occurs when someone unconsciously takes parts of their identity that they find unacceptable and places them onto someone else. Narcissists use projection to avoid taking responsibility for their own thoughts, feelings, emotions, and behaviors.
Hoovering is a manipulative technique that occurs when an abuser will say and/or do exactly what the person that they are abusing needs to hear and/or see to give the relationship that they have with the abuser another chance.
"When I learned that she was f*cking some guy at work, I left without warning. I didn’t tell her I knew until I was in a safe place where she couldn’t get to me. When I finally told her that I knew, she went into a rage for about a week. But as time went on and I didn’t return home, she started hoovering me. Telling me that she can’t imagine a life without me, that she was going to k*ll herself if I didn’t come home. She even tried faking being pregnant. It was a complete nightmare! – Isaac"
Gaslighting is a manipulative tactic that occurs when someone doubts or denies your reality. Over time, gaslighting causes you to doubt your reality and question your sanity. Narcissists use gaslighting to remain in a position of power and control of their surrounding environment.
"I caught my ex cheating on me 13 different times. You know that song ‘It Wasn’t Me’ by Shaggy. Yeah that was my life for 12 years, his gaslighting was next level stuff. I would catch him in the act and he gaslighted me so much that he had me believing I was imagining things, dreaming, misreading the situation. You name it, I believed it. It took me such a long time to take control of my life and stop letting him treat me the way he did, but I am proud of myself for doing so.” – Carol
((LookingForSunshine, NOTE THIS NEXT ONE IN PARTICULAR re his desperation to keep starting arguments))
Baiting is when a narcissist says or does something manipulative to tempt you to engage with them in a negative interaction. If you engage in a negative interaction with a narcissist, they will use this opportunity to justify their own behavior by portraying you in a negative light to others."
((AND justifying running to their "ex's"))
((PS: he's trying to "boo-hoo" her into bed as we speak, you see.))
Narcissistic rage is an unpredictable, explosive, and unjustifiable response that narcissists often have when they experience a narcissistic injury. It can manifest in the form of physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional/psychological abuse, and/or neglect. Narcissists use rage to prevent others from expressing their thoughts, feelings, emotions, and needs.
Future faking is when a narcissist makes a false promise for the future to get what they want in the present. Narcissists use future faking because the promises they make often prevent the people they are abusing from ending the relationship that they have with the narcissist.
“I’m sure that he cheated on me multiple times but I only caught him once. When I did, he used future faking to stop me from leaving. We had been together for 5 years and had been talking about kids for 3. When I caught him he said something like ‘I cheated because I am scared to be a father. I see myself having this amazing life with you but I don’t feel like I deserve it so I tried sabotaging everything.’ Absolute bulls*it, he cheated because that is what narcissists do. Anyway, at the time I didn’t know he was a narcissist so I believed all of his lies and future faking for the next 3 years.” – Iris
Discarding is when the narcissist ends the relationship that they have with you. When a narcissist discards you, they often have a new source of supply (another person) already lined up. Generally speaking, discarding is a tactic that narcissists use to reassure themselves that they are still in power and control of their surrounding environment.
((Then there's fake-Discarding, followed by Hoovering if you sound desperate enough, meant to cow you (if His Lordship takes you back)) into never again complaining about being abused and just taking it and taking it...not that it works: all victims 'explode' back into reality eventually, it's inevitable.))
Stonewalling is when a narcissist refuses to participate in the communication and connection of the relationship. The three most common forms of stonewalling are gaslighting, the silent treatment, and intimacy avoidance.
Self-Victimization ((aka Blame-Shifting aka Stealing The Victim Cloak))
Self-victimization is casting oneself in the role of a victim. It is a manipulation tactic that narcissists, especially covert narcissists, use all the time.
Narcissists tend to victimize themselves and act depressed when they can’t use projection to place their painful thoughts, feelings, and emotions onto others, when they don’t get a sufficient amount of narcissistic supply, and when they are trying to remain in power and control of others by making them feel guilty and/or ashamed.
"After she knew that I knew, she started sobbing and asking me to hold her. She told me that I was working so much and that she forgot what it felt like to be loved. There was just so much crap coming out of her mouth, I couldn’t wrap my head around all of it. This self-victimization sh*t didn’t work on me. I was home every single day at 5, she was the one who was constantly out with ‘friends.’ For those reading this, don’t believe in their victimized agenda, as soon as my ex found out that I was leaving, she snapped back into her narcissistic psychopath role and tried to hurt me anyway she could.” – Thaddeus
Don’t expect an admission of wrongdoing when questioning a narcissist about cheating. In fact, they may take offense to it, turn the blame on you, claim you drove them to cheat, gaslight you, or flat-out deny it. Narcissists dread losing control and having their conduct come into question, which is why defensiveness is common. It can also help prevent any type of narcissistic injury. Their defensiveness in and of itself is undoubtedly the most compounding confirmation that cheating is going on.6, 8 ,9
When a narcissist is cheating, they will think you are too or may flip the script to make it seem that way. Your narcissist counterpart almost certainly has a distorted notion that showing a strong aversion towards infidelity won’t make you suspicious of them. They will typically do this while targeting you with accusations, harassment, and harsh judgments of suspected infidelity. Unfortunately, this common narcissist tactic can put you at a disadvantage because instead of confronting your narcissist’s adulterous acts, you now have to defend yourself.5, 6, 8
3. Lack of Reassurance
Not only are narcissists defensive–they’re also not very reassuring. Your narcissist partner is often so self-involved that they are unable to separate themselves from their ego, thus deflecting or minimizing your suspicions. It is highly unlikely that they’ll ever validate your concerns about the possible infidelity or feel any guilt about it. The narcissist will disregard any requests for reassurance, which will often leave you feeling more confused and suspicious.6
4. Requesting Space
When you first start a relationship with a narcissist, you’ll often encounter love bombing and get showered with extreme attention, affection, and love. Yet, because narcissists tend to get bored and lose interest quickly, this phase is often short-lived. You may notice your narcissist partner, particularly the grandiose type, pulling away and “needing space” in ways they previously have not. Generally, this signals that they’ve reached a limit with you and are now searching for new avenues of excitement in others.6, 10
5. Dubious Online Behavior
Narcissistic individuals have an ongoing need to self-promote and crave external validation. Therefore, social media can be the most gratifying outlet for them. It’s not uncommon for narcissists to spend excessive on-screen time. But if they start exhibiting shady social media use, like posting flirtatious comments on someone’s picture, oversharing personal details with people you’ve never met, and creating profiles on dating sites, it can further solidify your partner’s engagement in unfaithful acts.5, 6
6. More Spending
Narcissists, especially the grandiose type, tend to be flashy since they usually have a distorted notion that their “sex appeal” and desirability come from displaying wealth and having material possessions. Thus, you may see your narcissistic partner making impulsive purchases and overspending on things like luxurious gadgets, posh cars, expensive clothes, and so forth. This behavior may be motivated by the challenge of successfully seducing the person/s they are trying to have an affair with.6
7. Risky Sexual Behavior
Grandiose narcissism is strongly connected with a multitude of risky sexual behaviors, including having multiple sexual partners, frequent one-night stands, and higher rates of unprotected sex. Narcissists typically feel entitled to sexual pleasure in any way, shape, or form. Coupled with their impulsivity and openness towards sex and infidelity, it becomes a dangerous combination for everyone involved. That said, if you’re exclusive with a narcissist and get an STD, that may be direct confirmation that they are cheating on you while also putting your health at risk.6
PS: do you realise that he was always a Malignant Covert Narcissist but didn't come fully out of the closet until he had his mother's death as his wonderful, perfectly-understandable excuse and cover story? I've seen too many Narcs using a parent's death like this - or even LIE that their parent died (to get out of trouble and consequences); it's truly sickening. You realise how incapable of bonding they are, and how inhuman that makes them (google Attachment Disorder).
However, as they're lazy thus efficient (3 for the price of 1): his mother was probably the one that kept him in check (by having manipulated him into forever seeking her approval). So with her gone, not around to stop him (prevent with her presence, more like), it's WANTON, SPOILED BABY TIME! He'd like TWO conqubines! Maybe MORE! He's FREE....to be true Him (- mmm, how attractive...if you're into women-hating predators).
That's why people call the Malignant NPDs, Heartless Monsters.
Please don't waste any of your energy trying to fix a relationship you had no part in breaking? It's not possible to fix it, anyway.
Thank you for your message.
If I'm honest I feel so pathetic and weak. I know I need to leave him but I am scared. Scared I will not financially survive for me and my son. Scared of the unknown.
I have tried to talk to him and have come to the conclusion he is either Mentally unstable and has been suffering from a mental breakdown on and off for a long time or a complete manipulative person. Looking through the past I think he has done nearly all of the above and now looking back im finding and seeing things that I didn't pick up on or just allowed to happen for an easy life. I let all my own boundaries and needs be pushed aside and did everything he wanted and preferred.
I think the hard thing is now he is blaming me for everything and I even spoke to someone to see if he would listen to them (his sister) and he twisted everything, when I called her a few hours later it was like she was questioning me to see if what he said was true and I just wanted to cry. I have one person who doesnt want to get involved as they are friends with him but they have spoken to me and told me some horrible things that he has said to other about me and has accused me of doing some random things and he has been doing this for years. I started yesterday recording when he has an outburst just so I have evidence of something but i know it will get worse before it gets better.
Most of the accounts are in his name, Car insurance, phone contracts etc etc, so im hoping he will just leave as he has said to me he doesnt want to be with me and is waiting for the will so he will have money to start and find a place.
He will calm down and have reasonable conversations with me and then all of a sudden blow.
He was lovely and calm and having a "normal" conversation with me and I mentioned someone has just put an envelope on our car, I went out and it was a copy of the emails from him and his ex (that is how i found out) i read them and then asked if he has been talking to anyone and he lied and said no, then i showed him and it was my fault for reading them, then it went to I went on his emails and printed it as im a manipulative piece of shit and want to try and blame his poor ex who has been nothing but kind and carrying for him since his mother died.
He has called me a baby killer, he has accused me of doing things that he has done. he has said to me his next wife can teach me how to be a better women and loads more.
I just feel so broken and I honestly feel like I am going insane.
Sit tight - be with you tomorrow or so!
You're NOT feeling insane, you're feeling almightily BULLIED...It's the feelings-package that being bullied (by someone who IS in a way, insane) produces. In WITH that, is you feeling his insanity via your Empathy conduit, clashing with your sane, healthy brain.
Don't panic. You have all the power. Thanks to him.
"Thank you for your message."
You're welcome. :) I'm just sorry I don't have enough time to be posting more frequently; I just have to leap on any suitable window that presents itself. Like now. Anyhoo...
"If I'm honest I feel so pathetic and weak. I know I need to leave him but I am scared. Scared I will not financially survive for me and my son. Scared of the unknown."
That's normal and to be expected for one in your position. A normal ignorance and misdefining of a whole cocktail feelings, one, this overwhelming and, two, wholly unfamiliar to you. It's simply that your mind needs time to catch up to something that took God-knows how long for him to know, but which you're having dumped on you in one, fell swoop. It's too much. But it does get better.
If you aren't ready THUS FEEL SCARED, and dread-laden by the 'expectation', then it's too soon, simple as that. Your mind has to have time to adapt to this overload. Your brain will be racing, going through the old memory albums, re-contextualising, re-joining dots.... it doesn't feel nice...Brain Strain...which has physical sensations.
Cry whenever you need to, it's very important for discharging and easing the bad mental and bodily feelings.
"I have tried to talk to him and have come to the conclusion he is either Mentally unstable and has been suffering from a mental breakdown on and off for a long time or a complete manipulative person."
Well, of course. Until you start learning everything about marriage to a Malignant Narcissist, type Covert, sub-type (I'll more data to tell whether he's Cerebral or Somatic) (or you can google it?) - until you learn up, you'll be viewing him as you were conditioned to view him: through the Normal, Healthy, Decent Bloke lens. Which will keep you confused and Cognitively Dissonised (google): he loves-&-loved me, he loves-loved me not, loves me, loves me not.... back and forth, which is REALLY BAD FOR YOUR MENTAL HEALTH so - ....are you surfing and reading?
But I know what he is already. No normal bloke as includes sound morals, could EVER do that to their Numero Uno. No way! Not in a million years! Even if he were having a Mid-Life Crisis, he'd probably just want to buy a sportier car, start going to the gym, or get a hair-transplant...or probably want to but not enough to ever get around to it....just starting trimming his nose-hair, get his head-hair cut shorter, and cease wearing odd socks...
"Looking through the past I think he has done nearly all of the above and now looking back im finding and seeing things that I didn't pick up on or just allowed to happen for an easy life. I let all my own boundaries and needs be pushed aside and did everything he wanted and preferred."
You will find this quote of 'yours' all over the web, almost word-for-word, spoken by countless other victim-survivors in your exact same position. So that completes 'his' idenfication as far as I'm concerned.
As for your sentiment: everything you did and tried to do is because you took your marriage seriously and said things, with a normal healthy bloke, WOULD HAVE WORKED BEAUTIFULLY.
Right Qualities (mine)
WRONG RECEIPIENT! (him/it)
Remember he's interpersonally-interactionally insane, and that whatever he says is just nonsense meant to hurt and get a rise out of you. If he can get you to behave like a demon by pushing your patience to its very limit, he'll stop feeling guilty because, look, he's right, you ARE a demon. (They could make a SAINT lose their shi*t, trust me on that.)
I've seen, interacted with (or tried to), got mentally intimate with 'your husband' - his type. Far too often. And I've seen their wives/partners, the previously mildest-mannered or most self-controlled and dignified person you could imagine, do what any HEALTHY over-abused human eventually MUST do : lose it and give their bully a taste of what own-medicine they actually ARE capable of doling-out, actually, but just didn't ever normally need to use...The Big Guns).
Your tolerance bucket overflowed after years of drip-drip because he suddenly dumped a ruddy great jugful in there. It's a whole life-devastating event, a huge trauma.
And yet you sound very sane and together (for starters you came and then posted here, which takes b*lls) - despite by YOUR standards, you're in weakened and pathetic mode and full of confusing, negative emotions. But I'm here to tell you: (1) By normal, average standards you're as strong as an ox (had to have been, to have kept that mess of a marriage afloat for so long). And, (2) I repeat: you're supposed to be on the floor at the moment. It's a grieving process that doesn't care whether you're normally strong or not. At the moment, you're just turning on your tank engine. Next will come revving (anger)....you're in for a treat where your confidence starting to rush back in is concerned. :) He really is going to wish he hadn't.
Trust me: he shouldn't have under-estimated you (and got out his dirty guns). He's going to be in serious trouble.
Don't let this process scare you. I'm always here, just not every day at the mo., but the pressure should start to ease off from next week.
If it helps to realise, though: News for you: You were always single. Never married. You'll realise this in the not-so-distant future. Single and NO LONGER controlled and influenced in mentally-ill ways day after day is wonderful...the sense of freedom and realisation that you got out of jail - emotional-psychological version - is priceless and worth heading for.
Questions: what are your ages, how long were you bf-gf, ditto married, and do you have kids?
"I think the hard thing is now he is blaming me for everything and I even spoke to someone to see if he would listen to them (his sister) and he twisted everything, when I called her a few hours later it was like she was questioning me to see if what he said was true and I just wanted to cry."
I know. :( Twisting, manipulating words, is what Coverts do best (especially the Cerebrals). He doesn't want you to have any supportive reality-checks, he needs to keep you Cognitively Dissonised thus unable to land on any decision about anything (least of all, to start the divorce process), and making everything feel too daunting when it isn't, its the thought, the indecisiveness...and all the rest of the disgusting treatment meant to keep you down and unable to defend yourself against this attack of his.
Well, tough tittie to him, then, because, here you are and here I and everyone else here am/are!
Google "Narcissistic Smear Campaign" and "Flying Monkeys".
She's his sister, though. She has to believe and believe in him. Because she doesn't have the moral strength to do the right thing and at least keep an open mind. Maybe she at least has narcissistic traits enough to do what they do - close ranks, without rhyme or reason....blind loyalty (which is ironic when the family spends the rest of the time being the opposite to one another). This is a Narc Family Of Origin classic.
Ask for help and confide *only and solely* on people who've walked in your shoes, or similar-enough ones, and can understand the madness.
"I have one person who doesnt want to get involved as they are friends with him but they have spoken to me and told me some horrible things that he has said to other about me and has accused me of doing some random things and he has been doing this for years. I started yesterday recording when he has an outburst just so I have evidence of something but i know it will get worse before it gets better."
Excellent! Thank-you for proving by point about you.
Seriously, soon enough you're going to want to send him down and when you do - HE IS GOING DOWN. Where he belongs. And you're going to tbe the architypcal Pheonix out of the ashes. It's how the narrow behavioural 'dance' goes.
Haha, I loved that. I'm going to re-paste it in:
"I started yesterday recording when he has an outburst just so I have evidence of something but i know it will get worse before it gets better."
Look at that. Look at that! Weak and pathetic my arse, don't make me laugh my face off!
No more talk like that, do you hear?
This is why he's for so long tried to keep you tied and chained. BECAUSE YOU'RE A SCARY WARRIORESS! If you were meek and mild thus easily enslave-able, he wouldn't need to, would he! (See?)
You're a bad-bad-bad-bad-bad Doormat!
Understandably, when he's enough to make anyone bristle.
(Hur-hur....Give 's a grin, go on!)
"Most of the accounts are in his name, Car insurance, phone contracts etc etc, so im hoping he will just leave as he has said to me he doesnt want to be with me and is waiting for the will so he will have money to start and find a place."
RIGHT - GET TO A SOLICITOR NOW! Half that Will money is yours because at time of death, you were married and still are. I say 'now', not because it's not retro-actionable once you do start the divorce, but because your confidence needs to hear this straight from a solicitor's mouth. Every single piece of weath and assets, all financial or otherwise admin. based information is yours to take access of. And if you don't have access - the solicitor will get it for you (perfectly standard in a "narcissistic divorce").
"He will calm down and have reasonable conversations with me and then all of a sudden blow."
Because it confuses you more. Or because he feels like it and it's not time yet to give your confidence and other finer qualities another bashing-down.
"He was lovely and calm and having a "normal" conversation with me and I mentioned someone has just put an envelope on our car, I went out and it was a copy of the emails from him and his ex (that is how i found out)"
That's why he lovely and calm. So that you wouldn't suspect that HE put them there. Or asked his "ex" to? Either/or.
He's not trying to hide his affair, he's trying to use it as a baseball bat to keep beating and thereby REDUCE you with.
He wants you so bashed-down that you agree to a Divorce by Mediation (where it's easy to hide the tracks of your financial squirrelling). A real divorce and you'll get your fair share (again - any kids and what's the marriage innings?).
" i read them and then asked if he has been talking to anyone and he lied and said no,"
Malignant Narcs never admit to any wrongdoing, even if you hold concrete evidence up to their face. 'No, the sky is NOT Blue, it's Green!" (like the song, "It wasn't me!"). Because they're not THERE to face trial. They're there to torment you some more. Plus it'll hurt better if you believe him but then next thing you know, find out it's a lie.
Are Cruel and Heartless the words you're looking for?
" then i showed him and it was my fault for reading them,"
Lie. Just another blow to your sensibilities, sense of logic and justice.... bash-bash-bash.
It's so damned frustrating that they refuse to cooperate in dealing with the 'problem' (because they know the problem is them). But again, only if you insist on viewing him as a normal guy gone doolally for no reason. Read up on them and you realise what their whole agenda is. And that this personality disorder behaves in all the ways, just depending on PD severity and behavioural degrees, that normal-healthies deem Evil.
But if they LIKE being evil. If they ENJOY it. Then they "are" Evil, there's no way around it. Mad (mal-programmed) thus Bad.
" then it went to I went on his emails and printed it as im a manipulative piece of shit and want to try and blame his poor ex who has been nothing but kind and carrying for him since his mother died."
Ugh. Good that you're quoting him because I can 'tap in'. But - UGH.
I HOPE YOU'VE DOWNED MARITAL TOOLS, CEASED COOKING FOR HIM, ETC? TELL HIM HIS "EX" (use your finger-quotes-gesture) CAN DO IT.
"He has called me a baby killer, he has accused me of doing things that he has done. he has said to me his next wife can teach me how to be a better women and loads more.
I just feel so broken and I honestly feel like I am going insane."
He's Sadistic to the max, no doubt about it.
He is BRUTAL.
I'm shocked. (It takes a lot.)....
He's a deep, severe Covert whom now he has no further use of you (Object A) can drop the act and show you his true colours....he's trying to scare and intimidate you into letting him control EVERYTHING so that he gets to keep at least MOST of "his" money.
((Your next "wife". Don't make me laugh, you nasty, weasley, dweeby little cowardly piece of scum! You don't know the MEANING of the word wife - or husband for that matter, you sick (censored)! Go back down the Rabbit-Hole or into the drain where you belong, you nasty excuse for a human-being, you DISGUST ME!!!))
Sorry about that. But I feel a bit better.
This is the thing about Narcs, though. They are childish and think the Divorce is going to play out like you see in cheap, daytime dramas - which makes the legal system hoot with laughter and derision because it is SO FAR from any of that. In other words, what he wants is NOT going to be what he gets. Because he is NOT "even cleverer than the courts and stupid judges" (LOL!).
It's called Reality and it stings big-time - if you get a solicitor PDQ...just have them lined-up and ready to go. I'm telling you, there's no confidence-boost and big-gun armer-upper like it!
Any questions? Need any advice?
Like I say, I'll have more time after the weekend (unless I get a window) and will endeavour to check in more often.
I do know how you feel, how it feels...all of it. Once reoved AND first-hand. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, WORN THE T-SHIRT, SOAKED THE T-SHIRT IN MY TEARS....then strangled him with it (haha - not literally). And we were (hah!) friends first, too. Ohhh, yess. You and I are not the exception by any means. They'll ensnare you through ANY door - including Male Friend; they prime and addict you sloooowly and steeeadily. Luckily, my skin seems to be curously Slime-proof...most it ever stayed on (e.g. a lie) was 3 days at very most...I was forever going, 'Hang on a cotton pickin' minute, what is this BS?!'. I was a Narc's worst nightmare. :) REALLY bad slave, haha. But ANY human if they're in whatever ways lovely and healthy and empathetic, can be tricked into the relationship. It's about getting out, unscathed (and teaching him a lesson as a natural-consequence bonus).
Tell me - did you fancy him when you were just friends - or ever fancy him at all?....
Oh sorry - I missed 'my son'. Sorry, the heat's making my eyes less sharp even with my glasses.
Well, FANTASTIC, THEN!
The Family court will look after you well in order that you can continue to look after your son well. :) If need be, HE can sleep in a cardboard box. Wee bairn and his "body and mind" (*you* at this stage) comes first, without exception.
You'll be better than ok :)
Do you work, even part-time? If you don't - DON'T! Your solicitor will explain why.
But I'm getting ahead of where you're at, so, back to the now: more info to help you get your head around this/him and help us identify his sub-type.
However, what with his level of mental cruelty along with the fact he's really flaunting this 'better' Lilypad and the fact he might leap to her, I'm not ruling-out Sociopath, meaning, Covert merely in preparation for pulling his entire mask off in front of you and showing the horror that lies beneath. It strikes me as a bit over-cruel for a plain Covert Narc, really. There again, it could be desperation (to beat you up too severly to be capable of visiting a solicitor). But that's one of the reasons why I need to know the length of relationship(s).
((My double parentheses; not all victims and experts out there on the web, agree yet, it's still early days, research-wise))
Please paste in the ones that apply? Including the years leading up to this shocking 'denouement'.
(I'd say, Point 4 is a no-brainer, wouldn't you by now?)
"Signs of a covert narcissist:
They believe they're uniquely miserable.
Unlike most types of narcissists who often come across as confident and grandiose, covert narcissists tend to be more insecure and self-effacing. "They don't generally feel good about themselves at all and agree with statements like 'I feel I'm temperamentally different from most people,'" Malkin says.
They think they're superior to others, even if they're quiet about it.
Covert narcissists can tend to be shy, but this shyness may come from a quiet sense of superiority, or "secret grandiosity," according to the American Journal of Psychiatry. It may also stem from their deep insecurity.
They're constantly jealous.
Covert narcissists tend to be envious of other people's talents, possessions, and capacity for deep relationships, Fox explains. Because entitlement is one aspect of NPD, covert narcissists believe they deserve what other people have and tend to get jealous when they don't get it.
They're unable to build meaningful relationships.
According to the American Journal of Psychiatry, covert narcissists have an "unrealistic and extremely fragile sense of self, which leads to a lack of engagement in the world." That lack of engagement combined with a general lack of empathy (common in NPD) makes it nearly impossible for covert narcissists to connect with others in any meaningful way.
Passive aggression is a very common trait among covert narcissists. Like any other narcissist, the covert narcissist can be antisocial and mean-spirited, but Fox says their quieter nature means these behaviors are usually passive-aggressive as opposed to openly aggressive.
((My own opinion is thay're both. They act-out as well as take direct aim (albeit under the table from behind their cowardly (or consequence-avoidant) sandbags.))
They're hypersensitive to criticism.
A total inability to handle criticism is a telltale sign of covert narcissism. The covert narcissist tends to ((**))wear their heart on their sleeve, Fox says, and is thus often easily wounded. They might then use this offense as a way to get attention from others or present themselves as a victim.
((HUH? Don't agree with that bit AT ALL. They're the opposite of that! They're the Just Because and I'm Not Discussing It merchants. It's Classic/Benigns that wear their hearts on their sleeve, not Coverts, and definitely not Covert-Vulnerables. The pair should be called Vulnerability-Phobic!))
They project their insecurities onto you.
"Covert narcissists are even more uncomfortable with their obvious insecurities than overt narcissists, so they tend to use a tactic called projective identification," Malkin explains. Think of it like a game of emotional hot potato, with feelings of insecurity.
"They say or do things to make you feel off-balance, insecure, or uncomfortable so they can feel more in control or knowledgeable."
They lack boundaries.
Because covert narcissists believe their experiences are more important or more difficult than other people's, "they'll often call you all the time to talk about how hard life is for them, how much they suffer," Fox says. They tend to do this with a complete disregard for your side of the conversation or your time.
They demand constant attention.
"Covert narcissists with NPD often vacillate wildly between being demanding of rapt attention (you have to pay attention to their every word or else suffer their wrath) and abjectly miserable, often suicidal," Malkin says. They may even use their misery to get attention, essentially using it as a way to manipulate others. ((That describes Covert-Vulnerables; non-Vulnerables swing from wanting rapt attention, admiration, etc. (Coverts at BIG on non-stop admiration!) - and barely registering you..e.g. going into their study for hours every night.))
"The covert narcissist needs that attention, and they need to be seen as special," Fox says.
How to deal with covert narcissism.
To manage a covert narcissist's difficult emotions, it's important to truly understand certain truths about narcissists, so you know their actions are not your fault:
Recognize their comments have nothing to do with you.
"If you're dealing with an ex," Fox says, "they already see you as this horrible person." Meaning, it doesn't matter what you say or do; they're only thinking about how they were wronged in the first place. "You have to realize those comments aren't about you," he says. "They're coming from an individual whose behaviors you can't change."
Don't allow yourself to be offended.
Sure, this is easier said than done, but insulating yourself from hurtful comments is important. "You have to be a duck in the rain and let those arguments or backhanded statements roll off your back," Fox says. "You're never going to win an argument or get to a point where they admit you're right, so learn to let it go
Don't engage in their lies.
Narcissists of all types are often delusional and believe in their own sources of data, Fox tells us. "They usually find people with low self-esteem or people who will fall for their lies." ((- Not always..., but definitely always people who'll do anything for what convinces initially as True Love...and who wouldn't. They CREATE low s-e in victims where before it didn't exist!)) Those lies may be personal, intended to insult or belittle you or, more general, intended to make them feel knowledgeable. Either way, "if you don't engage, they can't win."
Acknowledge their true motivations out loud.
If a covert narcissist is micromanaging you or belittling your abilities out of their own potential anxieties (i.e. the "projective identification" concept explained above), Malkin recommends "blocking the pass by saying something like: 'You seem really worried about my work today—more so than usual. Are you feeling nervous about something?'"
Whether they admit to it—or, more likely, reject it—this act can help you feel more secure. Acknowledging the true source of their doubt might remind you that you're not inferior, which is what they want you to believe.
The bottom line.
"It's best to think of narcissism as a trait, or pervasive universal human tendency, which exists on a spectrum," Malkin says. "The drive is to feel special, exceptional, or unique, and stand out from the other 7 billion people on the planet in some way." ((...albeit, natural narcissism as part of one's survival instinct is not nearly on the same scale as when it's as out-of-control/controlling the individual on an actual Personality Disorder.))
Covert narcissists are the same. They simply display their behaviors on a quieter, less grandiose scale than overt narcissists do."
((Yes, *but* other people with even high natural narcissism don't lack empathy nor try to destroy others in their bid for GROSS need for specialness, exception, control, power, money, etc., etc. All Narcs would rather die than give way to their ego; they're egos-on-legs; their false pride is always 'the death' of them.))
Still a good article, though.
I'll now find one for your Covert-Overt, harem-building Sociopath, for you to check against.
They behave similarly, but for different motivations and agendas...and the Spath is way, way "heavier", chaotic (like trying to nail jelly to the ceiling!), and impulsive...fancy themselves as full-blown psychos but, yup, their puny egos and false pride always gets in the way. Psychos look down on them and often manipulate and use them. .....But let's see...
(Those aren't ALL the covert behaviours, mind. E.g Gaslighting, Baiting, Neglectful, etc. Even toying with your emotions for the entertainment and power-rush of it. And over-teasing, "only joking", and backhanded comments too. And SO competitive, even with their spouse... and kids: they're the type won't ever give a kid a head-start or let them win occasionally, e.g., at boardgames.)
PS: Really, he's handed you a golden opportunity here, to escape his clutches but with your own held high. Plus, if you at least raise the petition with the solicitor, if not serve it yet until you say you're ready, you'll get to cite Adultery, rather than if he beats you to it and has the nerve to claim you as the Adulterer (oh, yes, their chutzpah knows no bounds!) ....and put it this way: court personnel are only human. Highly moral ones. Extremely pro-family/community. Who abhor adulters. :)
("Eez guuurn DAAAAN!")
Make sure he's unable to snoop. Clear your history every time, yes?
Coverts are big snoopers/spiers, drive-byers or get someone else to do it, as a way to know your temperature, your gameplan. Check all your devices - and your car - it's imperative.
Basically as it sounds: Hidden. In the shadows. Smoke & Mirrors.
I’m 34 and he’s 40.
We’ve been together and married in a whole for eight years, we got married in 2020.
I met him when I was about 21, and I fancied him at the beginning, but when I found out he was seeing someone and those feelings just switched off and it was just pure friendship.
We as friends go for walks, and we will chat and catch up, I was kind of his best friend and he was mine. I was there for him along with someone else when he was splitting up with his ex.( it was a nasty break up and she is a very manipulative, toxic person, has been her whole life -very much always the victim too)
After some time it just fell into place and we started dating. He was amazing, kind and caring for me and my son( who was roughly 1 at the time)
when he fist moved in I had problems with his other sister ( we’ll call this one sister 2) and ex ( who when he split from the ex) became close friends. They would scratch my car and make out I was going all sorts of stuff as I started helping his mum out with things, like shopping, medicine etc. One time they even accused me of trying to kill her and overdose her.! I think that’s why him emailing the ax now is such a kick in the teeth. After the struggle we went through with them
I don’t really know when this all started up if I’m honest but at the beginning, it would only be a couple of hours, and then, as time go on, then couple of hours of him, being crappy and saying nasty things will turn into a day, and then two days, and then, before I know it, he’s being like this over a weekend or over the Christmas period.
Another thing that’s come to light recently, as when he left his ex, he moved in with his other friend (the other one that helped him get through his ex) when he first moved in with me, he told me that she stole money from him out, and that he wanted nothing to do with her and told me some other things that had happened, and I respect that, they messaged each other on birthdays but that was it ( as far as I was aware) now I have found out that he told her I wouldn’t let them be friends as I didn’t like him talking to women and didn’t want them being friends so they would have to hide the friendship. He has even told her things like I check his phone and have even tried to change her number on his phone?!? I can promise you now this has never happen ( luckily it’s one of the things I have recorded, - me saying you called her this and told me this and him admitting it )
I mean this is just a quick glance at things.
Last night he was the opposite. Told me he needed to leave me because he didn’t want to hurt me no more and he is to blame for everything and that he has self sabotaged everything and that I am the best thing to happen to him and no one would ever come close to being me. He is just sorry that he couldn’t give me another child I deserve and that I was the only person he ever actually loved and that’s why I’m the only person he married. That he was content with me and that’s why he was happy but he hits a self destruct button inside. He mentioned that it feels like he has two devils and one angel in his brain, and when he’s doing everything, it’s like there’s a little boy inside screaming and telling him to stop, but he just can’t
Hope that information helps
VERY helpful - thank-you. Yup, my opinion is, he's a Narcissistic Sociopath aka NPD/AsPD aka a Narcopath (aka a N-Spath). This means, in whatever proportions, he's both a Narc and Sociopath.
Here's why (when this latest evidence in your post is judged as an attitudinal-behavioural package and compared with the prior evidence) - keeping to your order of written:
1. A Narcissist(-Sociopath) craves insta-Superiority in any person-person r/ship so would like the fact you were a whole 6 years younger. (They might even lob that fact at you to "win" differences in opinions, ignorant of the fact that, if you felt you could still attain (the dreaded) equality with a man 6 years your senior then clearly you're mature for your on-paper age so his age suited your (perfectly healthy) agenda of Balance/Overall Equality...*Partnership*. (Talk about huge incompatibility from the off, huh.)
2. Married for 3 years, together romantically for 5, equals 8.
A fauxlationship with a (Narcissist-)Sociopath, I've noticed, tends to end by Year 7 (despite can be felt and registered by the victim up to 2 years prior to actual 'escape' day). What accounts for what used to be called, "The 7-Year Itch", I reckon. However, if the healthy wife, who'll already be used to propping-up the entire relationship and work lion's-share), is determined enough, e.g. due to (mistakenly) not wanting to 'destroy' their kid's normal (- hah!) family (- hah!) upbringing (- hah!) (get your kiddie out, quick!), it can go to 13.
...Unless, as in your case, they meantime go too far/drop a bomb (which they frequently do because they're unable to make tiny up/down adjustments to their usual provocations/antagonisms so inevitably over-shoot...clumsy, meat-fisted, lack finesse).
Yours is fed-up with not being able to train you into psycho-emotional-practical-sexual-financial-world-view servitude (a female carbon-copy of himself but his lackey)...so he's dropped a nuclear bomb - right in front of you. If it works to cow you, have you begging him back - great, Hallelujlia! If it doesn't - Go To "New Bird" and seek new Secondary Supply with Primary potential.
Quick aside: I can tell you're worried you're going to be considered a marital failure if you divorce him. Nope. Giant Nope. That would apply only if he were normal-decent-healthy. You'll be a marital success, proving you're Pro-Relationship & Marriage and Pro-Mothering - for having got yourself and your son out of the monster's cage...too clever to remain incarcerated.
Don't let him use your son's future welfare as his emotional blackmail on you; he probably will, the more he has to scrape the barrel....including, But what about (son)?...my answers to which would be a flat,
'OH, all-of-a-sudden. You kept THAT care well-hidden until now, eh', or,
'What, you think he LIKES breathing your toxic gas? ...That's why you're mad' (note, however, I can physically self-defend); or a milder,
'You knew this would be the inevitable outcome' (and/or) 'nobody put a gun to your head', or
'You're not qualified to have an opinion', or
'..........(silence and just a look)....', which is the best...because the others don't work on one who doesn't care anyway - hence is showing it - and just because he's knows it's YOUR Achilles Heel.
3. A Narcissist(-Sociopath) "Love-Bombs" you and rushes the intimacy thus the relationship.
Married for 3 years, romantic, preceded by friendship, for 5. Can I presume Friends, straight, for about 2 years or more, meaning, bf-gf 3-4?
Whichever... Married for 3. Bit early to be having an affair, isn't it? And, REGARDLESS, CERTAINLY shouldn't be following THIS kind of script! Especially not when there's a kiddie involved!
IME, the Narc-Sociopath who uses Overt and Covert will keep the mask (mainly) on (bar flashes of putting the r/ship at risk*) for a good 2 years (to REALLY get your trust and their hooks in)...because they intend to use you more than just emotionally (their financial/life fake status and standing depend on it).
(*"I very nearly missed your birthday!" and some such....and you think, 'Why TELL me that?!' (answer: to wound and create insecurity and clinginess).
Is this bit aligning?
4. "I met him when I was about 21, and I fancied him at the beginning, but when I found out he was seeing someone and those feelings just switched off and it was just pure friendship."
So you thought.
He would have been resentful that you'd not bitten despite he was already coupled, and seen you as a challenge. So went in leisurely via the Friendship Door. And it worked.
Common ploy if they've already got one Primary and enough satellites at the time.
You were his best friend, sure. But he wasn't yours.
They don't want to be friends with their opposite gender, they hate them (despite need them) (which makes them hate them even more - cuckoo!). I mean, what of his true colours in terms of heinous actions and disgusting verbals, lately, says he's trying to preserve a friendship?...
***IGNORE THAT BS HE'S JUST SPOUTED AT YOU IN YOUR SECOND/LATEST POST***
It's a common Narcissistic ploy to blame a (existent or non-existent) traumatic upbringing. It's part of "The Pity Ploy" and N-Spaths use it the most (- Martha Stout...google).
Additionally, we have him switching drastically to playing altruist...leaving you for your OWN good (all-of-a-sudden),.....ahhhh, how GALANT of him (puke)... which is called, The Victim-Hero Complex and is just another method to regain control, dominance and superiority over you (NOTE: which shows he knows he's lost it - well done You!):
"Narcissists often oscillate from hero to victim mode. As the hero, the narcissist attempts to dominate the situation. Saving the day fuels his or her ego and provides control. As the victim, the narcissist evades accountability by relying on a past hardship to excuse current wrongdoing. Both stances are dysfunctional and hurt others. To be the hero, the narcissist needs to create a “bad guy,” and as the victim, he gives himself license to mistreat others free from repercussions."
I NOTICED THERE WAS SOME TRUTH IN IT, HOWEVER.
(Narcissistic-)*Sociopath*. They're the ones, wrap their lies around truths, as lends their fabrications plausibility.
...Alternatively, they were fine as a friend so you thought he'd be finer as a lover? Nope - the reverse (LaLa-Land aka Opposites Land/Day). Common trap. Closer you get, more threatening to their ego (power and control) one is, and must be tamed/enslaved/every thought and move controlled so as to remove said threats.
They get you - the, in whatever ways, Golden/Diamond person - when you're in whatever ways down, over-distracted.. - or have a need, e.g merely to find a life-partner...yup, that is a manipulable need to Narcs! - because they know this moment is their one-and-only opportunity to be able to persuade/trick someone of your quality to accept him (or her).
5. Regarding the ex: (N-)Spaths always "Steal the Victim Cloak" on the ex to that giant degree. He's already begun doing the same to you with his sister, remember? Although, he'll stop if you stop (tell people who don't have to believe him, but more pref. just other victim-survivors). So I'm highly skeptical over that (unless he'd misjudged her/they were tricking each other?).
Women get all maternal over injured, fluffy bunnies, though - even male ones - don't they?
6. "it just fell into place"
'I don't know when it began, it sort-of just happened'
'I wasn't even LOOKING for a relationship!'
'I didn't even like him at first, haha'
'I just wanted something casual, but somehow he got under my skin'
...And other (N-)Spath victim-survivor quotes like your one.
Once they go into 'romantic' hunter mode, they unwittingly (- bar the results) have a "Sociopathic hypnotic effect".
He was aiming to cheat on his gf even then, look. That should have been your first, obvious, Red Flag. Were you short on friends at the time?
7. "He was amazing, kind and caring for me and my son( who was roughly 1 at the time) "
As above Love-Bombing plus "Impressions Management"...and "Creating Victim Dependency" (to tip the scales of your letting them move-in).
8. A (Narcissistic)-Sociopath is a Narc AND a conning Parasite. THEY MOVE IN TO YOUR PLACE and engineer/wheedle a situation where you're eventually supporting them as if they were your second son:
"when he fist moved in I had problems with his other sister ( we’ll call this one sister 2) and ex ( who when he split from the ex) became close friends. They would scratch my car and make out I was going all sorts of stuff as I started helping his mum out with things, like shopping, medicine etc. One time they even accused me of trying to kill her and overdose her.! I think that’s why him emailing the ax now is such a kick in the teeth. After the struggle we went through with them"
His sisters sound DE-LIGHT-FUL!
And this 'friend' of Blister 2.
The ASBO Twins. :p
They obviously didn't like you helping their mum (Pathological Envy & Possessiveness). Probably you were making them look bad. Which isn't hard when they're downright lazy. So, they just flapped their toxic lips.
Of course it's a kick in the teeth (Normal Bloke Lens alert!). All of it is. You can't expect Loyalty from ANY Narcissist. One, they're incapable, and, two, part of their methods for bringing you down is to side with your opponents/enemies/people who pick on you.
But that IS BIG (grown adults, keying your car?!?) so, yup...still thinking NSpath.
9. "I don’t really know when this all started up if I’m honest but at the beginning, it would only be a couple of hours, and then, as time go on, then couple of hours of him, being crappy and saying nasty things will turn into a day, and then two days, and then, before I know it, he’s being like this over a weekend or over the Christmas period."
All Malignant Narcs like to exhaust you with arguments, but the Spath is the marathon sulker-punisher-torturer (google "Baiting", and, "Narcissistic Silent Treatment" - two NPD ploy classics).
Ditto "Ruining Special Occasions". Eventually ALL of them. Happy You = Confident You, end of; defeats his long-term object (haha - of defeating his long-term Object....You :D).
10. "Another thing that’s come to light recently, as when he left his ex, he moved in with his other friend (the other one that helped him get through his ex)
(Pssst!...The one that had her own place for him to move into. ;) (- Normal Bloke Lens alert again) He's a Parasite, that's an N-Spath.)
"when he first moved in with me,"
(And - pssst! again: notice his new Supply has her own place, too?)
(...All these women, saving him sooo much living expense.)
11. "he told me that she stole money from him out,"
No, he did. And that's why...
"....he wanted nothing to do with her and told me some other things that had happened, and I respect that, they messaged each other on birthdays"
But she still needed him so she went schtum again in case he irreversibly slandered her as her toll-fee. After all, he wanted nothing more to do with her and yet DIDN'T want nothing more to do with her (actions, actions, actions).
He's a liar. He stole from her. It's what Spaths do.
ALSO (psst!): a normal man wouldn't want that to become third-party, let alone grow into, common, knowledge....Would have taken him a long time before he'd have told you.
Yip. He's a Spath. And a giant Narc. Hooray.
12. "but that was it ( as far as I was aware) now I have found out that he told her I wouldn’t let them be friends as I didn’t like him talking to women"
(I second 'as far as you were aware') (liking your skepticism there :) )
Google "Projection". He was the one that didn't like you talking to men - or men talking to you....either way you get 'had a go at' (rant-rant-rant!) and/or punished. (N-Spaths are more aggressive and explosive than 'straight' NPDs.) But it did as something to blacken you and "Triangulate" with, to keep you two from wanting to mingle when you could have compared notes.....'Three for the price of one' action...the third being, getting to keep his ex-not-ex as his isolated Conqubine (google "Narcissistic Isolation").
"and didn’t want them being friends so they would have to hide the friendship."
...Yep, heard it all before...
"He has even told her things like I check his phone and have even tried to change her number on his phone?!? I can promise you now this has never happen ( luckily it’s one of the things I have recorded, - me saying you called her this and told me this and him admitting it )"
Then that means he checks yours, has even tried to change your nunber.
(LOL and Tsk...you don't need to tell ME it never happened, ya 'nana)
You go, Secret Squirrel! :)))))
PS: His fake Hero/Gentleman act doesn't even make sense! NOT ANY OF IT! It's nothing but contradictions and illogicals and the opposite of what happens in reality. Of course.
PPS: You're doing Grrrrrrreat! :) (said like one Tiger to another, LOL)
(Ignore this mistake:
"Married for 3 years, romantic, preceded by friendship, for 5. Can I presume Friends, straight, for about 2 years or more, meaning, bf-gf 3-4?"
You met him when you were 21.)
Well, he's definitely ripped off his mask. And now he's busy, trying to put some of it hurriedly back on ....so that you - like his ex-not-ex and his newbie-not-newbie, and god knows how many others, will become the "wife" amid a whole harem of Conqubines.
That's as close to a Chinese Warlord HE is.
Incredible, isn't it? Although, that phrase doesn't do it justice. Try this one:
'What the f***?!'.
"Told me he needed to leave me because he didn’t want to hurt me no more and he is to blame for everything and that he has self sabotaged everything " blah-blah-blah, ollox-ollox-ollox....
Tell him you've decided to accept his resignation because you've heard that doing so asap, with his type, results in a bigger phee-phoo and you wanted to reciprocate by putting his (and his future partners') greatest, most dire need, first, too.
One of my most satisfying bat-backs from in my 20s (sometimes they put you in a position where you have no choice):
"I would tell you I faked it every time, only, you've got to be awake for that".
(Ey thenk-hyo, LOL)
"and that I am the best thing to happen to him and no one would ever come close to being me."
Sing-a-long time!..... (hope you like Paul Weller?)
To-ooo me-ee, you're The Wu-huh-huuuun (oh, yeh, yeh)
So now-ow-owww gooooooo..aaaaa-waaaaaay".
According to ol' Evil Forrest, there, the leg bone is NOT connected to the hip-bone but to the head bone,...hence he "is" kicking himself, I guess.
"it’s like there’s a little boy inside screaming and telling him to stop, but he just can’t"
Is it Tiny Tim?
Or Orville The Bird?
"Ah wish Ah could flyyyyyyy
Right op to the sky
But Ah caan't
(You caan't? / I caan't!)
Yes you can - you're an Owl. Owls fly.
YOU can't (soz - talking to your ex-YES-ex at the mo).....YOU can't because you're an illusion.
(And PS: NSpaths eventually reveal an obsession with trying to do you via the back door.)
There are so many things I am looking back on now that all make sense and should have been signs.
When I was 20, I move from London to the countryside so I didn’t really know anyone and I met him at one of my jobs.
"There are so many things I am looking back on now that all make sense and should have been signs."
WHY should they have been? Are you a Narc or Cluster B expert?
Even if you were, you'd still get sucked in. Why? Because they have had decades of practise all-day-every-day, perfecting how to behave *exactly* like genuine, lovely, healthy men (or women) experiencing 'love at first sight' (or the ideal employee...whatever).
If a stranger came up to you in your high street and handed you a semi-transparent briefcase containing thousands of pounds, would you say, 'Aaaaaah..., I know what you're doing: the only real notes are the ones visible on the very outside, the rest are all newspaper!'?
Would you uck.
And, I mean . how much better insured against being mistreated can one be than to pairbond with their previously best friend?
TWO giant lottery wins! ...Were they genuine, of course.
They mimic OUR kind. (Bstds) While pressing our buttons as start our internal chemical factory making highly pleasurable, addictive drugs, with him identified as your Supplier. So we're DRUGGED, not compus mentus...only we don't know it.
These are 'the few that spoil it for the rest'. Spoil our trust in Love At First Sight, spoil the whole idea of romance and relationships...families... friendship... working for "a boss" ever again... ever taking your car back to that garage.... (don't get me started)... If we let them.
Next time you'll take it much slower and (online studies or no) SIMPLY DO THIS: keep being aware of how he - and being around him - the relationship as a whole - makes you FEEL. Acknowledge the feeling, accept the feeling, and THEN investigate it using your intellect. Feel, Linger, *Then* Look Both Ways (my Red Cross Code lol).
Fact: people rarely remember what we said, but they DO remember how we made them FEEL. Your feelings are your klaxon. Even if you *can't* explain what's causing them (at the time), just, as I say, do as they're trying to tell you and take a step backwards/away, create a Him-Free space - try making an adjustment somewhere, for example (like, miss a date-week), to see whether your "dis-ease", eases...that sort of thing. (Or come back on here, the minute you start dating someone (later on, obvs) in order to have a constant relationship-witness and feedbacker?)
"When I was 20, I move from London to the countryside so I didn’t really know anyone and I met him at one of my jobs."
Ahhh... There we go, then. Needed to make new friends. He knew that - it was just logical.
Thing is, though, he may not have predated you straight away, he may just have thought (they're exceptionally delusional - "NPD - Magic Thinking") he was worthy of a friend of your calibre when he so wasn't. But you were bound to be (projecting his issue on you) DESPERATE so - wheyhey, there was his chance! I'll bet being friends with you 'elevated' him to other people in various ways?
PS: Spaths do know right from wrong and do have a BIT of a Conscience but the relay from knowing they're doing wrong and feeling guilty doesn't travel along and trigger the Super-Ego's screeching cry - "No, don't do it, you can't possible do something like that, in fact, don't even think such horrid thoughts!". His morals could fit on a pinhead.....Ditto his Jiminy Cricket, but with room for a miniature sofa, side-table and rug.
But they key phrase with NSpaths is always this: NO SHAME.
And if you step back and think about it - doesn't that just sum-up this entire behavioural stageplay and production of his?
Repeat after me:
I should NOT have seen the signs, let alone known that's what they were!
NARCISSISM SHOULD NOT EXIST!
(See the huge differencio? 10p please :))
Sunshine, I also want to untwist something else:
"I just feel so broken and I honestly feel like I am going insane."
Because it's 'alien' to feel like this, it's hard to identify what you're feeling. You were almost right. But it's this:
What you felt at that moment is what it feels like to a normal, healthy and moreover balanced, above-average . empathetic, intelligent, sensitive, human being, i.e. a prime specimen, at that point totally ignorant over the fact that they are in the presence of one who 'suffers' a form of other-harmful ("Emotionally Dangerous Man") INSANITY.
You feel like it feels when subjected to what I call, the Invasion Of The Body Snatchers. He LOOKS like your husband, he THIS and THATS like your husband, but. BUT. BUUUUT. It's not him. (Yeah, he was a pig most of the time, but - this?!) And then for a few seconds, IT IS Him again! Then it isn't again..... That switching moods on you is on whatever level deliberate on his part, but the rest is natural (for a malig. Narc).
You realise you're in the presence of one who is (was always) broken and now 'going' insane.
(going or 'showing')
Myth 2, and note my asterisked part in particular (Myth 1 doesn't tend to happen that way with Malig Coverts, they can pursue you coolly and smoothly, given the right circumstance(s), such as his own back then as afore-referenced; all Malignants are giant Opportunists):
"Its not always easy to spot narcissists. They can be very charming and alluring at the onset, presenting a false mask to the outside world. Research indicates that narcissism is rising in the population, especially among the younger generation (Twenge and Campbell, 2009). With the rise of dating applications such as Bumble, Tinder, and OKCupid connecting us to people we wouldnt normally have access to, its even more likely that at some point you will encounter someone on the narcissistic spectrum.
Yet how can you tell in the early stages of dating that youve met someone toxic? Although there is no foolproof way to immediately confirm whether someone is a narcissist, there are red flags of toxic people that we often mistake for intimacy.
These myths can cause us to believe that our dating partner is the soulmate weve been looking for, when in reality, they can indicate someone who lacks empathy, exploits others and feels superior to those around him or her (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).
MYTH #1: Fast-forwarding intimacy is a sign that he or she is really, really interested in me.
Authentic, empathic dating partners arent interested in rushing the process of falling in love they want everything to unfold organically. They have a genuine interest in finding a partner who is compatible with them and have no interest in misleading or exploiting anyone.
Narcissists, on the other hand, want to fast-forward both emotional and physical intimacy as a way to win your trust and investment in them quickly. This is someone who, without even knowing you, professes their adoration with you early on. They contact you excessively, give you laser-focused attention and may even take you on extravagant romantic outings that seem too good to be true. This is known as love-bombing and its a quick way to win you over without investing long-term. Once youre hooked, theyll start to withdraw and reveal more of their true character, leaving you to pick up the pieces and do all the work.
Narcissistic dating partners are less interested in building a solid, authentic connection and far more interested in getting into your head (and possibly your bed).In modern romance where hookup culture is becoming more and more normalized, its easy to mistake a narcissist for someone whos simply following the cultural norms (Garcia, 2012).
Experts note that narcissists have a very high degree of entitlement – that’s why they feel entitled to your time, energy and investment even before you’ve gotten to know them (Goulston, 2012). So if you find yourself dealing with someone who persistently coerces you into sexual or romantic behavior that youre not comfortable with despite the assertion of your standards, youre not dealing with someone whos obsessed with you. Youre dealing with someone whos obsessed with controlling you and not at all interested in honoring your boundaries.
MYTH #2: Bad behavior is the exception, not the rule thus we must give the benefit of the doubt.
Many of us approach dating with an excessive sense of generosity. We believe that certain red flags can be dismissed, when in fact, it is incredibly telling that these flags are appearing at all so early. Since people usually tend to be on their best behavior in the first few months of a relationship, you should especially be keeping track of outrageous behavior that seems out of place with the rest of someones projected persona.
***Narcissists tend to test the boundaries of their victims by pulling stunts that are ***so shocking*** that victims have a difficult time processing their actions. Victims start to develop a sense of cognitive dissonance about what they’re experiencing because it ***challenges all the preconceived notions they had about this person*** ((that's why some say Coverts are the most dangerous...they can seem to play Nice then Mostly Nice for years...decades, while you just don't see the shennigans behind-your-back and missiles dealt under-the-table, you just always feel something is "off" and the relationship strangely not evolving/progressing. They're likened to (natural-born but malignant) Psychopaths in this one Covertness respect...they CAN keep things hidden/quiet long-term...or for as long as it serves them, I should say)).
Narcissistic dating partners are constantly assessing their victims for what their vulnerabilities are to use these against them; according to research, the most sadistic and malignant of narcissists are rewarded by these manipulations(Wai & Tiliopoulos, 2012).
Rest assured: if you are dealing with a true narcissist, these are deliberately engineered to assess whether youd be willing to put up with their even more abrasive behavior later on. This could manifest in a number of different ways.***"
((And this is why you mustn't take them back. It never, never, never gets better...it's a myth (Narc propaganda) they mellow as they age... it gets worse and worse and worse for the victim-spouse (check out the suicide stats for this and then let it hit you what a golden opportunity he's (inadvertently, unintentionally, unawarely) given you (he's committed Adultery - End Of!), to get him, his stuff, all trace of himself, off of 'his' desk and out of your office for-good so that someone else, somebody sane, nice, sincere, fun, interesting, healthy, consistent, sexy, grown-up, all of that, will eventually, inevitably (- oh, yes!) apply for the simple fact that you share chemistry, are both nice people, AND can tell you genuinely have a vacancy (plus you will no longer come across mysteriously somehow off-putting, like a woman who is still in a state of Narcissistically Primed - or worse, Brainwashed (not you but too many are. It's called Right Person, Right Place, Right Time....... Just a wee preview to keep you strong.)).
Hey Sunshine - what's been happening since your last post?
Babies cry because they can't speak words.
Adults have 'tantrums' because they can't find the words that define how they feel, the words that will set them free to feel peace.
It sounds like your husband is treading water and scared.
Fear is confusion
To be afraid
To be aFRAYd
Like a string that ends. FRAY
We need truth
We need truth with love in our hearts to believe in
It is really important that you clean your home 1000%
We all radiate and absorb energy
He has been radiating a lot of negative energy that needs to removed
Your title is SUNSHINE...it is a POWERFUL cleanser.
So is steam
So decultter minimize and clean clean clean
And continue to give him time and space.
I recently saw A POWERFUL FILM with Adam Scott... I believe that it will help you GREATLY.. I was thrilled when I saw it because the message was so clear.
The film is called LITTLE EVIL.
Keep loving him
Keep giving him peace
(it sounds like you are doing an amazing job responding to his darkness, with light)
He is tangled up in webs of thoughts and energy trying to get free....and you are NOT making it more difficult for him. xoxo bless you
Provide...present...(don't push) CHOICES that he can easily choose that will get him back on the track of feeling good again.
We are all on and off EMOTIONAL SPIRALS. look that up
Also look up the CHEROKEE WOLF STORY and maybe even put it somewhere that he might pick it up himself and read it
Its simple its powerful and its true.