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I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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I've been in ldr for yrs now. It's not easy, there are times I don't know where to stand. I've been arguing with myself. When I first met him, he's a cool guy but mean and don't trust people easily. I didn't have much expectations about him and I just wanted to have new friends. After some times, we grew closer and decided to date. Honestly, it wasn't the kind of relationship I expected to come. There was no sweet courting but the transition from friends to lover was smooth for me to be convinced. When he become my bf, I've been bothered by his somewhat nonchalant attitude that I've been ignoring before. He told me he's not really sweet and the only thing making him that was my influence. On times when we are endearing makes me at peace. But there are also times I've been hurt to the point where I get sick from overthinking with his indifferent attitude. I try to be an understanding person given his nature and the responsibility of choosing to love him but I feel like I'm surpressing myself too much that it's not good for my health. At some point, I learned to be vocal about it. Sometimes it doesn't work and I'm just ignored and sometimes it does and he become nicer to me but only for a week or two and he's back like before again. At this point, I'm tired of asking him to be careful with my sensitivity and just not give a thought much about it. I could never change him but I still have my hopes and emotional episodes but I just hide it. Was I too demanding or expecting too much now or I wasn't understanding enough with his situation. I know he's having a hard time with with his personal life, his career and other more pressure there is like depression. I just wanted to be treated a lil softy and be nice and won't let me overthink. All these years I've given him that sign by treating him with such care. Was I putting him the pressure of high expectations for a partner? Or was I tolerating his bad treatment on me to ignore my struggles? We sure are the opposite when it comes to personality. The line "opposite attracts" doesn't really apply to relationships. But I'd like to try working this out, I was never the person to give up easily and I know I'm not perfect and still have room for personal growth. Any advice, suggestion, recommendations and violent reactions are welcome lol.

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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OK, so you've met this guy & he's said in the beginning, this is who I am, like it or lump it. You've chosen to like it & lump it & you're going to put up with it as well as like it. Yep, you're correct, you could never change him & even if you could, you shouldn't need to, because if he's the man you want & need, then there's nothing to change, is there? It's obvious his love language is a tad different from yours but people learn to get in step with each other, no sweat. why? it's because they have a need to be with each other regardless of the circumstances. Your LDR's years old & if you're convinced there's more to it, then off you go & enjoy it, good & bad. We only live once, so make it count. Cheers

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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Manalone is completely correct, but I'll go even deeper because I see Red Flags of a very distinct type. Sorry Flo, but everything you've described, including the order - including the order/length of intermiitency...his 'Willow The Wisp' or "Cheshire Cat" behaviour (google "Narcissist - Trauma Bonding & Intermittent Reinforcement") - has just too-closely replicated the entire Narcissistic Long-Distance (so-called) -Romance' Playbook. Including underhanded, even subliminal, dialogue as subtly but strongly dictates your behaviour, under your own radar, including, how much you alone give-give-give, despite he takes-takes-takes (and refuses to change or cooperate). (Identifying them, even just from someone else's descriptions and descriptives, is child's-play once you've studied up on them enough. I'll give you a link below to start you off.) You're his long-distance (at only HIS convenience, note) consolation prize or safetynet...or just something to do. He disappears on you because he's still been keeping active on all the dating-sites and sometimes thinks he's got a hopeful catch...whereupon he sets about textually (google-) "Love-Bombing" her - while forgetting you exist. The minute it proves unfruitful or disappointing - back he comes, to you. (He can't keep his ego-Inflateable inflated himself because it's got a hole - that he can't reach with his secretly still-kiddie-sized (they're stunted) arms - meaning, the air he steals from you and other women doesn't last long and has to constantly-constantly be topped-up. OR...he's already married or partnered-up (or they even pretend they are to be more-attractive Stolen Fruit to those with something to prove about their Allure), but not managing to receive/trick/steal enough air closer to home. ...Particularly Malignant Narcs - they can have up to 15 Other Women (or fans), warmed and waiting on the side, each meanwhile trying to prove-prove-prove they are his better bet than "the missus" that he constantly complains about and swears he wants to but just can't, leave (despite if she exists, she'll be the victim of his perpetrator...just as you're finding yourself victimised and deprived, given only CRUMBS whenever it suits him, yourself). If Benign, he'll just have a need to steal air from others' inflateables; if Malignant, he'll get a kick out of straight afterwards, stabbing a chasmic or number of tiny stabs into your inflateable, meaning, you'll need time to give your hole a better-than-new patching-up or are too 'spent' to be able to finish a discussion (that they ensure turns into a fight, just to deflate you some more). (And PS, I know it doesn't make sense to deflate your source of air each time, but - that's corruptly-programmed Narcs for you.) With TWO normal-healthies, you're supposed to supply half your own air, half for him - while he does half HIS own, half for you (called, Reciprocation). But because of that serious hole of his (and his inapbility to replenish his own air supply, unlike Healthies) - he obviously wouldn't want to (because he can't). You start deflating - and for no worthwhile purpose because there's no, or barely any, reciprocating, bar the odd puff of Hot Air (blah-blah, no I do love you, it's just ...I'm depressed, my life's very complicated, and the dog ate my homework, blah-blah-lie-lie...PROVE it - YOU can't see him...?!). And that's why he didn't court you: because that takes his spending a lot of his (scarce) air, plus, I reckon you were keen enough for two (correct?), meaning, he didn'tn see it that he needed to anyway. You're his better-than-nothing gal. But he doesn't give a shite about yours or any other people's feelings (unless he needs to, to get his (google-) "Narcissistic Supply"). I'd bet money you HAVEN'T met. Or if you have - not even remotely enough...just once or twice at the start, to kid you the pair of you were in a committed relationship. Am I warm? And - be honest... You see him less as an LD boyfriend these days and more a messy-ball-of-wool type of 'mystery wrapped around an enigma' that you feel positively obsessively driven to solve - correct? (Common stuff.) At this point, he seems relatively harmless, compared to how damagingly, emotioally and/or financially parasitic they CAN be. So I think he may just (pff - "just!" - ha ha) a Benign Narc (aka Classic). But, by how he behaves and operates so architypically as a gobsmackingly self-centred, selfish, MEAN-minded, persons-disrespectful, woman-disdainful, downright contemptuous - a Narc, who's exploiting and using you and DOES'T CARE THAT IT HURTS YOU TIME AND TIME AGAIN, OVER AND OVER. You don't factor, other than a pit-stop featuring an Ego Pumping Station. FYI: You're not the only woman (or man!) in your situation - not by a long shot. This is happening all over the globe. That and Catfishing. ***************************************** Check this out: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/love-in-the-age-narcissism/202111/narcissism-and-modern-dating (my asterisks and comments in double brackets) "Dating at any time, in any generation, can be scary. But dating today? Absolutely terrifying. Social media and dating apps have made it easier than ever to find the perfect person. Whether that match is ideal for right now, forever, or just for a plus-one to a party, the internet makes it possible to be found. The availability of dozens of willing matches can send a narcissist’s overwhelming need for attention (or, if you are so inclined, “needometer”) into overdrive. Online platforms also give narcissists a great opportunity to talk about themselves and create a believable narrative. This narrative is a powerful tool in attracting potential mates, allowing the narcissist to paint themselves as a sympathetic main character, reassigning blame, and embellishing (or creating) any positive attributes. Many times, a narcissist goes online simply to look for extra attention and ego-stroking and not necessarily for a relationship. Narcissists simply need someone to fulfill a need or play a part in the grand production of life. They may already have a partner in real life but feel unappreciated or undervalued. Dating apps make it easy for a narcissist to attract attention and fulfill their needometer at the touch of a button. There are several traps the narcissist can set in order to capture a victim. Catfishing, **ghosting, **breadcrumbing, and love bombing are just a few ways they can manipulate online dating. The crux of online dating for a narcissist is not necessarily to find a new partner but rather to build themselves up and get the attention they feel they lack in their offline life. They get a thrill out of the witty banter, the compliments, and the desire to be wanted and pursued. All of this feeds into the narcissist’s low self-esteem and gives a temporary boost to their fragile ego. Photos: Real-life or really edited? All dating profiles require some sort of photo, even just a headshot, to get published and go live. Some dating apps will verify people for an extra boost of protection and validation, but it is not a requirement. This makes it easy for people to use outdated or heavily edited photos and pass them off as current headshots. Narcissists can have cripplingly low self-esteem, covered up by a bombastic, egotistical exterior. Photo editing apps make it possible for a narcissist to alter their photo into what they believe they should look like. Some people may edit their photos due to actual skin flaws or bad lighting, but narcissists edit photos for the ego-stroking. Additionally, some studies have found that narcissism is positively correlated to the frequent taking and posting of selfies. Narcissists are also enamored with fame, attention, and popularity. If all the photos on someone’s profile are selfies or taken in vacation hot spots, the person may be looking for flattery and compliments. A narcissist’s profile will most likely consist of posed photos in exotic locales or big parties with perfect lighting and airbrushing instead of casual snaps in low-key places. They will always appear to be fearless, popular, and outgoing. ((Soulmate: but note that many impressionable people, now, especially youngsters, have long been copying them ("everyone else is doing it?!")...so it's not the selfies alone that identify them as narcissistic or full-on narcissistically personality-disordered. There are many more, less petty symptoms to the disposition or clinical disorder...with the latter, FAR less petty!)). The greatest story ever told Narcissists love to talk about themselves and exaggerate their accomplishments while downplaying their failures. Some narcissists may actually focus on their struggles in order to elicit sympathy and support. Whether they are the hero or the victim, they are always the star of the show. They may be ((pretending to be any of the following)) trapped in an abusive, loveless marriage, or their ongoing divorce is high-conflict and never-ending. Perhaps their last partner died tragically or called off the wedding at the last minute. Maybe they simply haven’t met the right person yet, and they have so much to give and no one to give it to. Whatever the reason for being on the dating app, the narcissist will happily give you in-depth details with themselves at the heart of the story. No matter the topic of conversation, whether it be about a favorite restaurant or movie, a narcissist will turn it around to focus on them. It could be to brag (“When I visited Spain/Italy/Greece, the wine was far better than here in town!”/“I attended grad school there; did I tell you I was second in my class?”), gain sympathy ((AND MAKE YOU TRY TO COMPETE)) (“My ex would never take me to that bistro!”) ((cue the victim taking them)) , or remind you how desirable they are (“The last time I went to that bar, the men simply wouldn’t leave me alone!” ((that one could be true, though, if the bar is full of pushy Narcs on the prowl...my female friends experience this sometimes)) or, “The tab was well over $1,000 by the time I was done ordering drinks for everyone!”). Narcissists are also masters at mirroring other people’s emotions, likes, and dislikes. They may pretend to love the same things you do in order to pull you in. For example, if you profess to love rock climbing, fishing, or jogging, they will also be a devotee of that activity. ((And ditto any opinions/beliefs that are gravely improtant to you, like spirituality or behavioural Dealbreakers)) Once you are committed to that person—be it by marriage or with a child—they will suddenly stop being so invested in you or the activity. ((Yup! Caught this one, now let's re-cast my net and catch another and another whilst this one's out-of-sight/drugged to the Honeymoon Heroin eyeballs on Cloud 9!)) You are already trapped in the relationship, and they no longer need to pretend. The narcissist will say that they never truly liked fishing, they always hated marathons, and they only put up with it because you “made them". ((PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THIS WHOLE PARAGRAPH, FLOMEL. If he didn't do any of this "being crazy about you", and just seemed nice and refreshingly normal/healthy (which his present behaviour now contradicts) then you're talking Covert-Vulnerable (he tries to make you too sorry for him to call him to account)) Overwhelming attention The private messages with a narcissist will be full of flattery and fawning. You get a nickname right away, or they fill your inbox with good morning and good night messages. If you do not reciprocate, they become angry or start accusing you of cheating or not being ready for a relationship. This results in you apologizing, making amends, and becoming the new villain of the story. Alternately, they might act needy or troubled to get more and more attention from you. Above all, a narcissist must be the center of attention. If that means creating narratives of trials and tribulations or constant flattery, they will do whatever it takes to get their ego boosted. Narcissists use dating apps for attention and control. The influx of messages and compliments soothes their fragile ego and makes them feel important and wanted. It can be incredibly difficult to identify a narcissist from someone who is merely suffering from low self-esteem or low self-worth. The difference is the person with a rock-bottom ego is still worthy and capable of giving and receiving love while a narcissist is not." __________________________________ Let Manalone and I know if any of this (and which bits) struck a chord with you. Or indeed, if it didn't? Just safer to check and eliminate it from the enquiry or know to proceed with caution (protect your ego and self-esteem by taking nothing he says seriously) before ending it.

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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PS: This is a good one (think it's new) - a therapist whom herself unwittingly became a long-distance lover (victim) of a Narc (she even shares their texts in case you, the reader, can recognise uncomfortably-close similarities. (As you can see - being an expert or the most intelligent person on the planet, does not protect you. We fall for someone with our HEART, not our brain. All victims are equal.) ______________________________________________________ https://imcarmen.com/relationship-with-narcissist-1b/ My 20 Month, Long-Distance Relationship with a Narcissist NPD (Extracts) "I took PLENTY of screenshots of his texts. Because we were long-distance, I relied more on his words than actions. Ironic, isn’t it? So when he did questionable things and my gut told me to be on guard, I turned to his loving messages. He seemed pleased that I found a way to self medicate. Before lecturing me about “actions being louder than words”… during idealization, the narc will put into action whatever it takes to become his target’s SOULMATE. When the relationship begin to deteriorate, his partner is left trying to get back that perfect relationship. I took PLENTY of screenshots of his texts. Because we were long-distance, I relied more on his words than actions. Ironic, isn’t it? So when he did questionable things and my gut told me to be on guard, I turned to his loving messages. He seemed pleased that I found a way to self medicate. Before lecturing me about “actions being louder than words”… during idealization, the narc will put into action whatever it takes to become his target’s SOULMATE. When the relationship begin to deteriorate, his partner is left trying to get back that perfect relationship... "...A one-way emotional bond (you to him) is created during this intense idealization stage. This is when you quickly fall head-over-heels in love with the narcissist and become vulnerable to what will follow. ((Again - different with a straight Covert...maybe no hearts & flowers, there can just be steady reliability and harmony, routinely regular contact....until suddenly there isn't)) "Narcissists lack emotional empathy, they are physically unable to bond or genuinely love another person. However they are highly skilled at mirroring their targets… QUICKLY appearing as THE PERFECT MATCH.... "The diagnosed narcissists I’ve spoken to claimed that in the beginning of the relationship, they’re motivated by “genuine” attraction – based on how they can benefit. However, they lack emotional empathy so they only idealize their target as objects to benefit from, and not as human beings with feelings. And because they do not bond emotionally, they inevitably grow bored with their object of focus and passion, leading to the devaluation & discard stages.... "Narcissists cannot emotionally connect… no matter how kind and loving and patient you are. No one is “special” enough to “change” them because THIS IS HOW THEIR BRAIN IS WIRED. They see you nothing more than an object… an appliance… to fill their need for approval and admiration (social status, company, chores/errands, sex, business, distraction from boredom). And when they’re done, they leave without feeling guilt because they CANNOT emotionally bond with anyone."

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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@MANALONE yes, I agree. I've chosen to like and lump it. I'm responsible for what I'm dealing now. I haven't met someone like him before so I thought at the beginning when we were still friends that it's a good experience and exposure to meet other types of personality for awareness and to challenge myself how to deal with them.

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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@Soulmate The Narcissist- Trauma bonding- Intermittent Reinforcement did make sense. He was not in a good shape when we met but I liked him because he has a lot of stories and experience he shares and I'm eager with all this discoveries. I was so naive back then and just started exploring the internet. He opened up to me with all his pain and what he has been thru and I felt the need to be gentle with him. He gives me anxiety but he's also my comfort. I agree that I was his convenience I later found out when all his other online friends abandoned him. He's not partnered-up or married tho. "you're supposed to supply half your own air, half for him - while he does half HIS own, half for you (called, Reciprocation). But because of that serious hole of his (and his inapbility to replenish his own air supply, unlike Healthies) - he obviously wouldn't want to (because he can't)." ------- this is indeed what I felt. I realized feeling this that I'm trying to fix him. "You start deflating - and for no worthwhile purpose because there's no, or barely any, reciprocating, bar the odd puff of Hot Air (blah-blah, no I do love you, it's just ...I'm depressed, my life's very complicated, and the dog ate my homework, blah-blah-lie-lie...PROVE it - YOU can't see him...?!). And that's why he didn't court you: because that takes his spending a lot of his (scarce) air, plus, I reckon you were keen enough for two (correct?), meaning, he didn'tn see it that he needed to anyway." ------at some point I did got tired, I can no longer be that bubbly around him, he pointed it out that I've changed and no longer the person before. I was exhausted but I didn't lash out on him blaming it was all his fault. I had mine too for not having good boundaries. I calmly told him that I wasn't feeling well lately and his actions are making me cry. He scolded me for not telling him about it but I know deep down he won't change even if I told him. Haha I expected a challenge at the beginning and there it came and I was caught off guard. It's alright though I learned the hard way and I ought to strengthen myself. "You see him less as an LD boyfriend these days and more a messy-ball-of-wool type of 'mystery wrapped around an enigma' that you feel positively obsessively driven to solve - correct?" ------- He's still my bf but I don't feel the need to solve him anymore. I will never fully understand him. "a Narc, who's exploiting and using you and DOES'T CARE THAT IT HURTS YOU TIME AND TIME AGAIN, OVER AND OVER. You don't factor, other than a pit-stop featuring an Ego Pumping Station." ------- ego pumping station? ouch that's so harsh but it's okay I will accept criticism that will help me. "((PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THIS WHOLE PARAGRAPH, FLOMEL. If he didn't do any of this "being crazy about you", and just seemed nice and refreshingly normal/healthy (which his present behaviour now contradicts) then you're talking Covert-Vulnerable (he tries to make you too sorry for him to call him to account))" ----------- I don't think he was crazy about me. In fact, he doesn't love bomb me, he's not sweet and not good at flattery words. He hardly compliments me and I feel sometimes he's forced to it. Actually he's not sympathetic. I once asked him what his thought about empathy and he replied he doesn't like being and in the feels of others shoes.. So am I dating a robot? In this case AI's are more nice than him haha. "Overwelming attention" ------ You say as a behavior of a narcissist. Reading this made me think, what if I'm the narcissist? You see, I do give him compliments and flatter him on things he achieves because I thought depressed person need to be appreciated even on the small things. Hoping it will cheer him up. Depressed people should be sorrounded with bright and happy people so they can absorb their cheerfulness. I also send him good morning and goodnight messages so he never feel alone. And I admit that I do feel sad when he just ignores me and so the little bubbly energy I have left turn to gloomy. Although I never confronted him about not sending me a good morning/night messages back because again why would I expect him starting his day to be as good as mine? Too much expectations. I also crave for his attention and wants to feel that I'm important to him. So are my behavior that of a narcissist just because I give him overwelming attention and want to recieve them back? He's bad at saying sorry too. I can tell that's his ego, I assume from his family upbringing. Whenever we fight, I'm the first to say sorry or even if he's at fault I say sorry.

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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"@MANALONE yes, I agree. I've chosen to like and lump it. I'm responsible for what I'm dealing now. I haven't met someone like him before so I thought at the beginning when we were still friends that it's a good experience and exposure to meet other types of personality for awareness and to challenge myself how to deal with them." I'm going to assume Manalone won't mind me taking this one because, usually, he says it all in his first post. That whole para from 'I hadn't met someone like him before' is a standard report by SO many targetted victims. As you surf for more info, you'll see - particularly if you read the survivor's tales in the Comments sections that some sites feature at the bottom of the page. Then you see how similar each type is, as well as overall. Many are tempted - or actually do say (well, used to) - OMG, your ex sounds exactly like my ex - you sure that's not my ex-(whatever) you're dating/whatever! Many thought they could keep it conveniently just casual, for example (particularly your Long-Distance dating). Others thought the person was so refreshingly different or SOOO the opposite of their first Narc (until they weren't). Certainly this is the case with Coverts. Coverts are usually the product of abuse mainly by neglect. So they hook....then neglect (and criticise, bitch, moan, make like they're Passive-Aggressive when they're just Covert-Aggressive). But NEVER do anything Instantly Dissmissable or that could be called Gross Misconduct. Unlike Narc-Sociopaths, they do the opposite of over-shoot - they manage to always-always stay JUST AN INCH or two within your personal limits so that you never meet your line in the sand or, if you do, can't even quite explain everything they did wrong, whether because there's too much to list or it was all too subtle for words (until the F.O.G. lifts). If you know what to spot once you've studied up on them, and/or were wired with telescopic plus microscopic or even x-ray specs, then - it's from then on not nearly subtle enough. It's safest to find that awareness online, rather than do it with a live one, in-the-flesh I mean. So you're in a rather privileged position, then!. LIMIT YOUR CONTACT WITH HIM TO UNDER 50 MINUTES (AT MOST) so that you can't be hypnotised or drugged (they do that by pushing your buttons situated UNDER your conscious radar). So who and what was your ex-bully before him, then?

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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Hey again, Flo! :) "@Soulmate The Narcissist- Trauma bonding- Intermittent Reinforcement did make sense. He was not in a good shape when we met but I liked him because he has a lot of stories and experience he shares and I'm eager with all this discoveries." Okay. So this is indeed a situation of 'curiosity killed the cat'. "I was so naive back then and just started exploring the internet." Not naiive - just legitimately ignorant of what you didn't know yet. You ain't telepathic?! "He opened up to me with all his pain and what he has been thru and I felt the need to be gentle with him. He gives me anxiety but he's also my comfort." Was that his chat-up lines/performance? If it was, we're talking Narc-Sociopath (google "Martha Stout - The Pity Play" (or "/Ploy"). Mind you, Covert Vulnerables do that too. But it's about degrees and timing (and a pervasive pattern, once you stand back to look). "I agree that I was his convenience I later found out when all his other online friends abandoned him. He's not partnered-up or married tho." So he's a Commitmentphobe. Well, all Narcs are. Google "Narcissist - Attachment Disorder". "you're supposed to supply half your own air, half for him - while he does half HIS own, half for you (called, Reciprocation). But because of that serious hole of his (and his inapbility to replenish his own air supply, unlike Healthies) - he obviously wouldn't want to (because he can't)." ------- this is indeed what I felt. I realized feeling this that I'm trying to fix him." It's a permanent hole. You can only just patch them (a bit) if they allow you to get genuinely close but of course, they can't. To the degree of pathologically avoidant. (PS: could you copy my formatting, please, as in, my quote top, your reply underneath, with a carriage-return/Enter in between? I'll separate our respective quotes from here just this time. Cheers.) "You start deflating - and for no worthwhile purpose because there's no, or barely any, reciprocating, bar the odd puff of Hot Air (blah-blah, no I do love you, it's just ...I'm depressed, my life's very complicated, and the dog ate my homework, blah-blah-lie-lie...PROVE it - YOU can't see him...?!). And that's why he didn't court you: because that takes his spending a lot of his (scarce) air, plus, I reckon you were keen enough for two (correct?), meaning, he didn'tn see it that he needed to anyway." " ------at some point I did got tired, I can no longer be that bubbly around him, he pointed it out that I've changed and no longer the person before. I was exhausted but I didn't lash out on him blaming it was all his fault. I had mine too for not having good boundaries. I calmly told him that I wasn't feeling well lately and his actions are making me cry. He scolded me for not telling him about it but I know deep down he won't change even if I told him. Haha I expected a challenge at the beginning and there it came and I was caught off guard. It's alright though I learned the hard way and I ought to strengthen myself." Yes, they LIKE you tired (you argue back/fight for your rights less plus can't think on all cylinders). And yes, they leave you deflated (and demoralised, etc.) you and then have the temerity to complain that you're no longer fully-inflated. If THEY feel better - YOU should! Soooo infuriating! Of COURSE the bully in the hobnail boots doesn't hurt his foot when kicking you hard in the shins, duuh! - it's the victim who's in pain! But...this one does sound like an NSpath because he's getting off on flashing or, this case, pointing you to the truth. The Sociopathic Reveal/Tell, it's called. By which I mean this: Flashing: They make little confessions (that sound too mad and uncharacteristic for you to take seriously, e.g. If you really knew me you wouldn't love me - or - after a downright traumatic, hours-long fight, when trying to get round you because this time, you've withdrawn into yourself (and from him), and you're trying to ask why they reacted so OTT like they did - 'I don't know...maybe I'm a psychopath or something?'. Signposting (your case): By complaining at your deflated state, they're bringing your attention to it, whereby your mind could BOARD that thought train and get all the way to the terminus: 'I'm deflated because of YOU constantly stealing my air for yourself or letting it out for the ridiculously childish power-rush and fun of it! - Stop right now and don't ever repeat it or you're fired!' - or just, You're fired. See it?...see what he did there? You can't HAVE good boundaries - they chip away at them even when you're not looking or push hard against them (to see if they can be broken, bent inwards or flattened). Not until your blindfold comes off (by educating yourself). That`s why you have to be single and pleasing and caring for yourself until you no longer need anyone else to do those things for you (but it's nice if/when they do) and your perimeter boundary has steadily re-righted itself, even moved itself outwards (extra boundary panels) and reinforced itself, to give you even more freedom, rights and protection than before (which is the silver lining). Truthfully, though, if the other person is a normal, healthy, true grown-up - you don't need to worry about your boundaries because the other likewise knows where never to go or never to linger if ever privileged enough to be invited in, occasionally, AND to remove their foot immediately they hear a squeak or just clock your facial expression! Amongst other 'delights' - NSpaths *mis-appropriate* and are *Inappropriate* and, in-person (usually once you live with them/become their Primary), downright antisocial as well as anti-society, and they always-always add insult to injury...pour fat on the fire (normals throw water)...no conflict resolution skills (willing) whatsoever (unless they can tell they really have to). It may be hard to relate to the online information, though, if you never got within arm's length and were never made his Primary Supply. Let me know if so. PS: Same with co-dependency. They MAKE you co-dependent, even if you never were to begin with! And if you WERE to begin with, then, all that does is make their job of "the takeover", that much easier. You don't need to be a bit chipped and dented here and there to begin with. Just UNAWARE - that these broken or fizzing-popping machines, more like rogue androids (some loud and energetic, some still and quiet), aka (depending on type/severity), Monsters, aka Emotional Vampires, aka Life Razing Saboteurs, aka Romantic Conmen - ACTUALLY EXIST. The fairytales were real...but far grittier in reality. "You see him less as an LD boyfriend these days and more a messy-ball-of-wool type of 'mystery wrapped around an enigma' that you feel positively obsessively driven to solve - correct?" "------- He's still my bf but I don't feel the need to solve him anymore. I will never fully understand him." Oh, GOOD. You're already mostly grieved-out, then? "a Narc, who's exploiting and using you and DOES'T CARE THAT IT HURTS YOU TIME AND TIME AGAIN, OVER AND OVER. You don't factor, other than a pit-stop featuring an Ego Pumping Station." "------- ego pumping station? ouch that's so harsh but it's okay I will accept criticism that will help me." Criticism of him, you mean? "((PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THIS WHOLE PARAGRAPH, FLOMEL. If he didn't do any of this "being crazy about you", and just seemed nice and refreshingly normal/healthy (which his present behaviour now contradicts) then you're talking Covert-Vulnerable (he tries to make you too sorry for him to call him to account))" " ----------- I don't think he was crazy about me. In fact, he doesn't love bomb me, he's not sweet and not good at flattery words. He hardly compliments me" (Covert) " and I feel sometimes he's forced to it." Do you REALLY want a boyfriend that humiliates you and your sense of worth and desirability by making you have to point out or nag for the bleedin' obvious as should just come naturally to and from him? " Actually he's not sympathetic. I once asked him what his thought about empathy and he replied he doesn't like being and in the feels of others shoes.. So am I dating a robot? In this case AI's are more nice than him haha." There you go - you're ahead of me. (PS: until (but beyond when) you're ready to trust humans a bit, again - so are cats and dogs.) "Overwelming attention" " ------ You say as a behavior of a narcissist. Reading this made me think, what if I'm the narcissist? You see, I do give him compliments and flatter him on things he achieves because I thought depressed person need to be appreciated even on the small things. Hoping it will cheer him up. Depressed people should be sorrounded with bright and happy people so they can absorb their cheerfulness. I also send him good morning and goodnight messages so he never feel alone. And I admit that I do feel sad when he just ignores me and so the little bubbly energy I have left turn to gloomy. Although I never confronted him about not sending me a good morning/night messages back because again why would I expect him starting his day to be as good as mine? Too much expectations. I also crave for his attention and wants to feel that I'm important to him. So are my behavior that of a narcissist just because I give him overwelming attention and want to recieve them back?" Overwhelming or a lot of attention isn't a problem if THE INTENTION behind it is good. And that whole para, especially, sounds like the LITERAL EXACT-OPPOSITE of how a Narc thinks and is motivated to behave. I.e. you sound EXACTLY like a very attentive, very nurturing and caring Empath. And lots of other secret signs I know (some I won't show & tell on here lest any watching Narcs can learn how to convince you they're normal/the victim, even better. As per the meme that goes: Everything you say to a Narc can and will be taken down and used against you) (and I'd add - in a Mickey-Mouse Court of Law). "He's bad at saying sorry too." There we go. "I can tell that's his ego," There we go. "I assume from his family upbringing." There we go again. "Whenever we fight, I'm the first to say sorry or even if he's at fault I say sorry." AND THERE WE GO-GO-GO. Don't worry: if I spot any of his fleas on you, I'll definitely tell you so you can pick them off. You sound pretty clean to me, though. How long ago did you begin grieving still IN the (er) relationship? New thoughts? Take this truism with you as your thoughts-backdrop: Though with a normal-healthy you wouldn't HAVE to email/worry to that extent - as far as I can see, even this early on, you would make any non-narc man feel really loved and cared for. :)

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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PS: You only have to be a normal, healthy human being to "somehow find yourself" caught and incarcerated by one. That's not the victim issue. The issue is: whether you stay (before the wall-chained shackles go on) and for how long you stay (fail to pick the lock and escape). You tend to stay longer than you should have if you grew up with it or experienced any type of emotionally-invested and (what you think is) INTER-dependent relationship with it - e.g. your family or workplace setting where escape would have been impossible or the LEAST sensible option at the time (homeless- or jobless-ness); also where even the sane, healthy parent dmonstrated staying too long. Unless you're lucky enough to find yourself suddenly ghosted/abandoned for an easier/"better" primary victim - or they've grown bored with their new toy - The longer you stay (which is, letting them get away with it), the cockier they get ("feeding the monster"), the worse the torture/neglect (= exhaustion and starvation) gets, the less you're capable of escape, so the longer you stay, the cockier they get, the worse.....repeat, repeat, repeat, CANCER...HEART-ATTACK....finally losing all self-control with lividness ("beside yourself") and STABBING HIM (or her) OVER THE BREAKFAST TABLE WITH A CRACKED KETCHUP BOTTLE... Ex of mine: And they're MUCH better than you! My reply: OMG, so what you're telling me is: real-life doormats DO still exist?! Here's the killer: they get even MORE bored with "doormats". It's us Empaths they want! We're the original Give-Givers. And they're Take-Takers - underneath the pretend "I'm exactly like you!", months-running acted generosity job. Opposites Attract - and then Repel. When it's a Narc. Because they're TOO opposite - ALL facets! (Degrees) They KNOW you're in whatever ways irresistable (even if you don't). That's why they pretend to be JUST LIKE YOU. You're dating yourself... and it feels very, very comfortable, all the way to wonderful, even to Heavenly. They show you a 'whole package' mirror-image of YOU, and you (and your genuine Likes out there that haven't met yet) find that whole personality *irresistible*. Not so much once they've finished with you, though. Of COURSE it's a huge deflation to your ego and self-esteem, because it's this: I've just been rejected/dumped by someone who's for too long proven they're not even fit enough to lick my boots. OH EM GEE. And then the doubt sets in... So be reassured. Right Qualities (yours) WRONGGGG Recipient (him/it) PS: Out of interest: If he were a film robot - which one would he be?

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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"Coverts are usually the product of abuse mainly by neglect. So they hook....then neglect (and criticise, bitch, moan, make like they're Passive-Aggressive when they're just Covert-Aggressive). But NEVER do anything Instantly Dissmissable or that could be called Gross Misconduct. Unlike Narc-Sociopaths, they do the opposite of over-shoot - they manage to always-always stay JUST AN INCH or two within your personal limits so that you never meet your line in the sand or, if you do, can't even quite explain everything they did wrong, whether because there's too much to list or it was all too subtle for words (until the F.O.G. lifts)." ---- I can see the connection! "It's safest to find that awareness online, rather than do it with a live one, in-the-flesh I mean. So you're in a rather privileged position, then!. LIMIT YOUR CONTACT WITH HIM TO UNDER 50 MINUTES (AT MOST) so that you can't be hypnotised or drugged (they do that by pushing your buttons situated UNDER your conscious radar). So who and what was your ex-bully before him, then?" ---- Am I in a privileged position haha. I think I'm realizing now that I am better at spotting red flags in personal as I can observe behavior than online. Right, I should limit my contact but it's sad that he is already doing that now, replies that of a stranger rather than a lover. I don't have an ex yet, he happens to be my first bf lol.

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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"Okay. So this is indeed a situation of 'curiosity killed the cat'." -Indeed. But cat has nine lives, I'll revive myself again for a better one. - What you've said here after is long I didn't copy but they did struck to me and it made sense. All I can say is yes and nod! "no conflict resolution skills (willing) whatsoever (unless they can tell they really have to)." - this last line made me laugh because it's really obvious that he lacked that skill. He even sees my initiative to talk and discuss the problem to find solution as an argument. He doesn't like confrontation. "It may be hard to relate to the online information, though, if you never got within arm's length and were never made his Primary Supply. Let me know if so." - We haven't met personally or got within arm's length but I can already imagine the struggle I would face to. He hardly makes an effort online(which would have been easier because he's an introvert) given our situation, how much more in actual? "Do you REALLY want a boyfriend that humiliates you and your sense of worth and desirability by making you have to point out or nag for the bleedin' obvious as should just come naturally to and from him?" - No. I don't want it:D "Overwhelming or a lot of attention isn't a problem if THE INTENTION behind it is good. And that whole para, especially, sounds like the LITERAL EXACT-OPPOSITE of how a Narc thinks and is motivated to behave. I.e. you sound EXACTLY like a very attentive, very nurturing and caring Empath. And lots of other secret signs I know (some I won't show & tell on here lest any watching Narcs can learn how to convince you they're normal/the victim, even better. As per the meme that goes: Everything you say to a Narc can and will be taken down and used against you) (and I'd add - in a Mickey-Mouse Court of Law)." -Thank you, that eased my mind. I'm really doing all those affection with good intentions and considerations. "Don't worry: if I spot any of his fleas on you, I'll definitely tell you so you can pick them off. You sound pretty clean to me, though. How long ago did you begin grieving still IN the (er) relationship?" -I can't say I'm that clean as there might be bad behaviors I have in his pov that I am not aware of which can be true. I started grieving our relationship when it turned one year, and now it's almost 2yrs. I am still in this relationship because after I grieving I was busy with my studies and I didn't have much time to dwell on him and overthink and we haven't fighted after it. But now he is acting weird again(so I'm here). "Take this truism with you as your thoughts-backdrop: Though with a normal-healthy you wouldn't HAVE to email/worry to that extent - as far as I can see, even this early on, you would make any non-narc man feel really loved and cared for. :)" -Yes, I must've been so desperate to understand this situation better for me to email here. But I'm glad I found this site:) I know it would be wonderful to be in a healthy relationship. But after this, I would like to enjoy being single and focus on self-care and establish better boundaries and may as you've said have it moved outwards (extra boundary panels) for an even more freedom, rights and protection than before (the silver lining). Which was my goal before I met him, it got delayed.

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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"The issue is: whether you stay (before the wall-chained shackles go on) and for how long you stay (fail to pick the lock and escape). You tend to stay longer than you should have if you grew up with it or experienced any type of emotionally-invested and (what you think is) INTER-dependent relationship with it - e.g. your family or workplace setting where escape would have been impossible or the LEAST sensible option at the time (homeless- or jobless-ness); also where even the sane, healthy parent dmonstrated staying too long." - Yes,I agree! "Unless you're lucky enough to find yourself suddenly ghosted/abandoned for an easier/"better" primary victim - or they've grown bored with their new toy" - Is it bad if I'm waiting for him to end first? I don't like the idea of me abandoning others even if they are at major fault, it feels heavy and I feel pity for them and guilty and being the heartless one. I also didn't mean it's okay for me to be abandoned harshly and beaten down. Ugh I wish it would be a mutual understanding, just peaceful break up. Is that even possible at this situation haha "The longer you stay (which is, letting them get away with it), the cockier they get ("feeding the monster"), the worse the torture/neglect (= exhaustion and starvation) gets, the less you're capable of escape, so the longer you stay, the cockier they get, the worse.....repeat, repeat, repeat, CANCER...HEART-ATTACK....finally losing all self-control with lividness ("beside yourself") and STABBING HIM (or her) OVER THE BREAKFAST TABLE WITH A CRACKED KETCHUP BOTTLE..." - Yes they get cockier and take that as an invitation for them to easily dimiss or neglect you because you are ALWAYS gonna be there for them:) now that sounds familiar. But for how long can I tolerate? hmm "Ex of mine: And they're MUCH better than you! My reply: OMG, so what you're telling me is: real-life doormats DO still exist?!" - the ex's line really is an infuriating statement, it annoys me. I applaud your reply, I think that's the best way to do it. "Here's the killer: they get even MORE bored with "doormats". It's us Empaths they want! We're the original Give-Givers. And they're Take-Takers - underneath the pretend "I'm exactly like you!", months-running acted generosity job." -exactly the same for a short period of time. "Opposites Attract - and then Repel. When it's a Narc. Because they're TOO opposite - ALL facets! (Degrees)" -I think this is the line "opposites attract- then repel" exactly! "They KNOW you're in whatever ways irresistable (even if you don't). That's why they pretend to be JUST LIKE YOU. You're dating yourself... and it feels very, very comfortable, all the way to wonderful, even to Heavenly. They show you a 'whole package' mirror-image of YOU, and you (and your genuine Likes out there that haven't met yet) find that whole personality *irresistible*." - I guess in my case he couldn't hold that mirror-image personality of me for too long. "Not so much once they've finished with you, though. Of COURSE it's a huge deflation to your ego and self-esteem, because it's this: I've just been rejected/dumped by someone who's for too long proven they're not even fit enough to lick my boots. OH EM GEE. And then the doubt sets in... " - Hahahuhu, it does sound so degrading. I'm gonna humor myself with 'atleast I'm genuine' but it still hurt I know(and then develop trauma, then become toxic). Now that you put it that way, it's scary. "So be reassured. Right Qualities (yours) WRONGGGG Recipient (him/it)" - I'll be more conscious about it. "PS: Out of interest: If he were a film robot - which one would he be?" -haha I don't know any existing robot film that describes him but if I were to make one he would be a talking robot where you insert coins so it can talk for a period of time. 1 coin for 10 secs and when it's about to end it makes a tiiiit sound. lol I'm bad at this HAHAHAH

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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Keep bearing with - be back as soon as humanly poss!

I can't sort my feelings about our relationship

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"---- Am I in a privileged position haha. I think I'm realizing now that I am better at spotting red flags in personal as I can observe behavior than online. Right, I should limit my contact but it's sad that he is already doing that now, replies that of a stranger rather than a lover. I don't have an ex yet, he happens to be my first bf lol." Ah. And first e-relationship (with-a-view). Well, I'm glad you're getting the nuance-less version (online) so young- __________________________________________________ ""Okay. So this is indeed a situation of 'curiosity killed the cat'." "-Indeed. But cat has nine lives, I'll revive myself again for a better one." "- What you've said here after is long I didn't copy but they did struck to me and it made sense. All I can say is yes and nod!" That's the spirit! (Thanks for the formatting.:)) ""no conflict resolution skills (willing) whatsoever (unless they can tell they really have to)." - this last line made me laugh because it's really obvious that he lacked that skill. He even sees my initiative to talk and discuss the problem to find solution as an argument. He doesn't like confrontation." Yes, because he doesn't want to admit his interpersonal crimes and face the consequences, and nor does he want to promise (via the act of apology) that it won't keep happening, which is because he wants to continue like that (as Manalone pointed out). ""It may be hard to relate to the online information, though, if you never got within arm's length and were never made his Primary Supply. Let me know if so." - We haven't met personally or got within arm's length but I can already imagine the struggle I would face to. He hardly makes an effort online (which would have been easier because he's an introvert)..." Yes - it should have been easier. If he'd been a normal bloke wanting a normal relationship (and merely just starting off from a safer distance due to having been hurt). "given our situation, how much more in actual?" Much worse. It's no different to asking - If the rocks and missiles he shoots from XXXX miles away hurt - how much more would they hurt if shot at close-range? ""Do you REALLY want a boyfriend that humiliates you and your sense of worth and desirability by making you have to point out or nag for the bleedin' obvious as should just come naturally to and from him?" - No. I don't want it:D"" Then you're sane and normal. :) Shame he doesn't work right, but, there really are plenty more fish in the sea. Plus, you now know what sort of conduct and behaviour are dealbreakers for you so that brings you to feeling far surer about what you do want from a relationship partner, from having lightly sampled what you absolutely *don't*. "Overwhelming or a lot of attention isn't a problem if THE INTENTION behind it is good. And that whole para, especially, sounds like the LITERAL EXACT-OPPOSITE of how a Narc thinks and is motivated to behave. I.e. you sound EXACTLY like a very attentive, very nurturing and caring Empath. And lots of other secret signs I know (some I won't show & tell on here lest any watching Narcs can learn how to convince you they're normal/the victim, even better. As per the meme that goes: Everything you say to a Narc can and will be taken down and used against you) (and I'd add - in a Mickey-Mouse Court of Law)." -Thank you, that eased my mind. I'm really doing all those affection with good intentions and considerations." It's not just obvious, it's palpable. And you're welcome. ""Don't worry: if I spot any of his fleas on you, I'll definitely tell you so you can pick them off. You sound pretty clean to me, though. How long ago did you begin grieving still IN the (er) relationship?" -I can't say I'm that clean as there might be bad behaviors I have in his pov that I am not aware of which can be true." Yes, but when you're unwittingly attached to one of his kind, your behaviour has been contrived and provoked, so it's just the only available reaction. If you saw a poisonous tarantala on your shoe, I doubt your reaction would be all that pretty, either, eh. "I started grieving our relationship when it turned one year, and now it's almost 2yrs. I am still in this relationship because after I grieving I was busy with my studies and I didn't have much time to dwell on him and overthink and we haven't fighted after it. But now he is acting weird again(so I'm here)." Go into his weirdnesses in more detail? All of it? Every little bit you can think of? ""Take this truism with you as your thoughts-backdrop: Though with a normal-healthy you wouldn't HAVE to email/worry to that extent - as far as I can see, even this early on, you would make any non-narc man feel really loved and cared for. :)" ""-Yes, I must've been so desperate to understand this situation better for me to email here. But I'm glad I found this site:) I know it would be wonderful to be in a healthy relationship. But after this, I would like to enjoy being single and focus on self-care and establish better boundaries and may as you've said have it moved outwards (extra boundary panels) for an even more freedom, rights and protection than before (the silver lining). Which was my goal before I met him, it got delayed."" How Case Closed characteristic is that last statement! I was in fact about to (whatever step up/life-enhancement), but then I met him and it all fell by the wayside. VERY common Covert or NSpath's victim-statement. VERY. 'I was about to accept a job offer, I was about to buy a flat, I was about to meet this other really nice bloke for a second date, I was about to about to about to (or, I just wanted some fun and company, I didn't even want or plan for a relationship, in fact I can't even pinpoint when I fell for him.... - and then in he walked'. So what's your plan? To respond only if he does, and use him as your safe guinneapig for future self-protection information (turning his rotten Lemons into De Luxe Lemonade)? Or just forget it and ignore him if he has the temerity to contact you again?

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