How to deal with a chronic depressed girlfriend
In short, my girlfriend and I are both 19 about to be 20 . Been together on off for 3 years, this is our 3rd time together, for almost a 1year straight. She always reaches this point where she becomes distant, moody with me, wanting to just push me away. And she only and has only done this with me, shes extremely book smart, intelligent beyond doubt and mature but to extent. I feel like when it comes to life and relationships, she still hasnt matured enough yet. Always the same for the part as to her answers to why she gets that way. Example of her being still young. Rrecently, we got into an argument. She gave me the silent treatment for about 3days. I try to communicate a bit but I give her her space. Well, one day I'm hanging out with a mutual friend of ours. Anytime something happens between us she always calls him to vent. She doesnt know I'm there and I can hear most of what shes saying to him. She starts going off about how I'm a dick, how I haven't even bothered apologize yet, that she thinks all I want is sex(about 2months ago she decided to let me be the one for her and take her virginity) the thing that caught me off guard from her was that she changed our relationship status in facebook to test me out to see if I would even notice or even care, and she seemed kinda hapoy about it.(I dont know her updates and such since I blocked her updatss the very first time we broke up and I just never changed it, but she doesnt know that.) Well, I give her a call and she doent pick up, I expected it since I knew she was at work, so I left a voicemail, telling her I noticed what she had done, apologized and told her I wanted to talk. All in all we patched things up. She is a very open girl, she doesnt restrain what she has to say. I slept over her house last saturday, wake up there sunday. Things are okay for a bit. She leaves me at her house for 2hours since she had a driver lesson that day. So I'm with her mom and her moms guy friend. Were out having breakfest ay IHOP and its honestky like right in front of the apartment complex she lives at. I ask her if she wants anything and shes just moody. So we get back to there house. And shes just all down about how she did bad at the lesson and almost hit 3 people. From there we finally get into the convo I dread that we have when I know she gets back to that point. She starts saying how she feels like emotinaly were stale, how we always reach a point and we dont ever move from there, how she feels loke shes stuck, and this is always her thing, always what she says when we have this kind of convo, that she just doesnt know what she wants. She loves me but just wants to push me, that maybe she just loves me but not the way she thinks. (Off topic a bit, I had left for about 3-4 months for basic traing for the army. I'm in the national guard. When I came back, it was great, like I felt like things may have finally changed between us. Was for only for a while and now I'm back to this point. I came back home late november.) Well, shes always had a big passion over music, and while I was gone she woukd send me mail about she wanted to start a band. Well, shes in a band now. So one of her bandmates call asking her if she wants to jam out. She says,'yeah just give me 10mins.' Im like really? Were in the middle of something serious. She says she knows but she cant right now, she just wants to play till her keyboard breaks, but she promises to have this convo when she gets back and that she still wants to watch the game with me. So she leaves. She calls me babe during this whole thing which I thought was strange since she never does that when she has these talks. What I noticed over time and the last time she reached this point, I threw a get together with some friends at my house like a month before I left for training, just us being young and stupid. She goes. After all that, she snapped back to normal. And she just works from 7am to 5pm Mon-Fri. Just stays home, takes care of her niece when her mom goes out and just hangs out with me for the most part. So she finally gets back, gives me a call and I head back to her place. I honestly expected the worst and even brought a duffel bag to grab my things that she has.nope the opposite happens, she opens the door wearing my military hoodie I left over when I was there earlier. Gives me a kiss once inside, and tells me what I had been thinkkng she needs. She says she thinks she just need to go out more, that she felt better once she hung out with friends. And that we'll get through this. And that she was sorry she ditched me. There's more but if anyone is willing to help and has any inside to how her mind might work please contact mem she is very complex for a female, not even other females I know, or mutual freinds of ours that she hangs out with understand what the hell goes in on her mind. She blamed her depression for this, her family has a history. Mom has problems with nerves at times, and a brother that suffers from anexity at times. Any help is great just no I'm too young, or just forget about it. I want help
Sounds as if your are probably right about her level of maturity, if you are, then maybe she will grow out of her moods.
However, some do people do suffer with mood swings, possibly for reasons of nature, or nurture.
Being intelligent offers no protection from mood swings , in fact, most of the people I know who suffer with mood swings are quite bright.
Not good news for you I'm afraid.
If her mood swings bother her (an important prerequisite) and she wanted to do something about it, then Cognitive Therapy might help her.
However, before thinking of suggesting it, I would advise you to consider the possibly consequences if she is feels you are being unfair and blaming her for all your arguments. Proceed with caution!
The extended periods of not speaking could be a form of defence developed in early years, or it could be a 'war of attrition' strategy used to wear you down and get you waving the white flag. Or a bit of both.
I think the best approach would be to try and discuss it when things are going well between you. Perhaps tell her how it feels when she seems to be distancing herself from you - but not in a blaming way, more in a: "I miss you", kind of a way!
People see the world from different perspective, so I think it's only normal to disagree, and fall out sometimes.
What you need as a couple is a framework for managing conflict and disagreement.
Perhaps see how your g/f responds to this quote:
"What else is love but understanding and rejoicing in the fact that another person lives, acts, and experiences otherwise than we do…?"
I think it's a constructive thought to hang on to when things are not at their best.
If you can persuade your g/f to at least talk to you when she's disconnecting from you, it will be a step forward.
Maybe you can both agree to suspend whatever the issue is producing the conflict, on the basis you can come back to it later?
If you can keep the communication flowing, then you have the chance of practicing 'damage limitation'.
Another tactic might be to call time early when you can see that things are getting out of control - perhaps have a key word, such as "truce", so that either of you can prevent further escalation of any conflict that might be building.
It sounds as if your g/f sometimes feels that you are not noticing things / her - which may not be the reality, but it might be a clue as to how she is feeling, so make sure she knows you want to know if she has something to draw to her attention.
Her social/emotional withdrawal might be a way of feeling safe, or it might be a way of containing anger, so if you encourage her to open up more, be prepared for anything.
Her reaction after her driving lesson could suggest that she has a tendency to become self-critical if she falls down on her own standards and expectations, and possibly that her self-esteem takes a bashing when that happens.
If you want to find out, you will need to get her to talk to you about how she is feeling at such times.
Finding a balance between showing concern for her, and not appearing to be giving in, is likely to be an important aspect of changing things. If she can respond to you without taking unfair advantage, then your efforts should be well placed.
It might be that her reactions test your level of maturity and self-confidence - which going by your post, does sound pretty good. If you do feel seriously knocked back, take some time out and talk to someone you can trust about it.
Thank you very much for the feedback Sky.
Thats my only problem, its almost impossible to get to wanna talk about things like this. Anytime i have tried to get her to talk, she shuts me down. Anything negative or something she doesnt wanna deal with, she will just shut out.
When we have the few moments like those where she just opens up, are my only window to talk to her about it.
I can tell for the most part when its something to get worked up or its some sort of defense she throws up. Ive dealt with it when my sister and I used to live together. My sister had worse mood swings and defense mechanisms then my girlfriend has.
But at the end, I can reach a certain point to where I just cant even understand what even goes through her mind, or how she even gets so worked up over things.
She does have a low self esteem from family members saying negative things throught her life. But she is very pretty, I'm not even saying that as a biased opnion as her boyfriend, but she honestly is.
Its just, I still like I'm not out of the storm yet. She has said when she was in her mood swing when she was going off on how things were stale and such. That she hasnt felt the want to get intimate was because she feels like were becoming just friends, that she cant get intimate with friends, again she become right back ro normal once she got back from her band practice. And I noticed it for a while she hasnt been wanting to get intimate. And even now it seems anytime we get even slighty hot and heavy. She just pushes me away. Not rudely or anything just like "babe, really now" jokingly.
And now all she does is ttext and want to hangout with one of her bandmates. Shes barely known the guy for like maybe a month.
Shit gets to me, I do my best not to show it, like its meh. But in reality it does.
She has the tendendcy to trust and bond really quickly with people if she feels really comfortable with them, and when I say bond I mean in a friend way. She starts to open up a little to much in eyes rather quickly with people if she reaches a comfortablty with them. And ive always have problems with her guy friends, one after another, she defends them to the bitter end that they could not even possibly like her, or its just a phase, they'll get over it, right? Shes still very naive. And ive pointed it out to her about it.
But this new guy gets under my skin with how much shes starting trust him, how much shes started to talk to him and hangout with him all the time. And its all I hear anytime I'm with her, she'll start talking about something her bandmate said. I get its probably her just wanting talk to me about everything, cause in her eyes its nothing wrong.
Even though the guy has told in her in jokes to cover it. Just break up with him, hey when you break up with him come find me and I can show you my turbo fingers( guy plays guitar)
Ive told her the guy likes her. But he self esteem is so low she doesnt see how thats possible for anyone to like her.
I always try my best to help raise her self esteem.
And to a point I actually find the guy intimadating. They both can connect to music so well, and its something I cant do, all i did was play the violin in middle school lol. And music has always been something so important to her.
I dont know, things seem fine, but again i still feel like im not out of it yet.
I can see how difficult this is for you.
Particularly this guy's ability to connect with her through music.
I think you've been very understanding about her relationship with other guys - a lot of guys wouldn't handle it so well.
Seems to me you need to get her to stand back a couple of paces and see the relationship from both sides, so that you can have a relationship about the relationship, i.e. to be able to see what's going on, etc.
Even if she is somewhat naive about the way this guy is relating to her, she needs to be able to consider the effect on you, i.e. to listen to your perspective on it, and show some trust in your opinion.
You sound like a pretty secure guy, but not complacent enough to ignore what can only be described as amber-light warning signals.
You need to talk, and communicate over this, i.e. she needs to show some empathy with your view of this friendship with the musician.
It she refuses to recognise the issue, then I guess you may have to accept that the relationship could be heading for a crossroads, and have a limited future.
If you press the issue, she may accuse you of being: "insecure and jealous", and use it as an excuse to break up, but to be honest, if she does, it might be better for it to happen sooner, rather than later. If she's looking for an excuse, she will find one at some point.
If she is genuinely confused about things, then an option could be couple counselling, if you are both willing.
I think the bedrock of a relationship is: trust, honest communication, and being able to see and appreciate each other's point of view.
If those essential ingredients are missing, then sadly, I don't think the relationship will last long, and even if it does, what a miserable time it's going to be.
She sounds like a real catch: pretty, clever, and difficult to understand emotionally, but if she's not prepared to recognise and work at those three bedrock essentials, then I don't think you are going to get very far.
You can't read her mind, and every relationship manual on the market will tell you that you shouldn't try.
She needs to share her thoughts and feelings with you - you shouldn't need to start playing a guessing game. I'm sorry to say that any resistance to that constitutes another amber warning light.
If the problem is down to absence of the necessary skills required to enable the relationship, then there is a book called: "Couple Skills" by McKay, Fanning, and Paleg. You will find it on Amazon.
But if she is just not really bothered, I'm afraid you may need to recognise the warning lights that are flashing up.
I hope you can work things out.
Again thank you for all the help.
I'm sorry to bother you with so much especially since we dont even know one another.
Me and her still haven't talked yet so i cant say much on the matter.
But you're about the only one who knows more in the matter then anyone ive talked to about it.
There is another thing ive never been able to figure out on how to help with her.
Anytime things have gotten rough with her, she has never been able to cope well with stress and such. While I'm here, ive been able to be there for her. But when I left she used to cut, tally marks as I dubbed it.
When I was gone for my training she went through some hardships and decided to go back to it. Once I came back we talked about it. She generally stops when I'm around. She rarely brings it up, she sometimes says she wants too when shes in her depressed state. And sometimes she jokes or makes it seem like its just the norm with her.
She has had professional help in the past, before we've met.
She hasnt brought it up in awhile and I hope maybe at least with her playing music will help her cope.
But I dont know how to help her just stop running gowards that option anytime things get rough.
Ive told her everything the book that I cant think of. But never seems to really work since she tends to use'you dont understand.' Method. Ive asked her to help me understand, again, no luck.
Another thing is with me.
When I returned I felt different, like I could just shrug things off. Now wifh being back home for so long and the situation back. I feel like ive broken down and returned to the ssme state of mind that I had before I left when situations like this happen.
I usually wake up really early in the normal, for no reason feeling in saddness, loneliness, fear and anger. It takes me while to shut my mind of the insecurities. Iven gotten better of thinking things through.
But it still happens to me for some reason. Its only when were in this point.
Only connection I can find is that I'm uncertain about us. Like I'm gonna loss her to this again. The distant feeling doesnt help.
I know that I shouldn't let myself get consumed by it. I know(knock on wood) if I did lose her, I would still live. I know all of that but its like my mind and emotions wont accept that. And ive only ever done that with her.
Ive never told her thats what happens to me when this situation happens. I dont want to off needy, desperate or weak.
Self-harm, such as cutting oneself , can be a way of finding expression over painful emotional issues when the person feels there is no other way of relieving pressure.
People who do it often say that they get a sense of release. It can also become a habit, e.g. like scratching dry skin as a form of temporary relief. It is also associated with difficulties over self-image and self-esteem.
This adds considerable complexity to the picture of your situation.
I know you want to help her, but your first priority must be to look after yourself.
If you get dragged down in this relationship you won't be of any use to anyone, least of all your g/f. You will become part of the problem.
I think you need a life-line, maybe by way of a close friends, a relative, etc. Someone who you can talk to and share some of your emotional stuff with. Maintaining a stiff upper lip will probably lead to you being in as bad a way as she is.
You need some clarity over what it is you are relating to, i.e. is it her, or her problems. Realistically it's both, but I think you need to be wary of focusing on her needs at the expense of your own.
Your early waking and disturbed sleep could be a sign of depression.
Intimacy is not just about sex, it involves sharing other aspects of self, such as thoughts, feelings, spiritual issues, etc. The fulfillment of such needs are associated with good mental health.
Being alone is one thing, feeling isolated in a relationship is something quite different.
Based on what you have posted, I get the impression that there is a distance between you on most of the above?
Having flagged up the risks for you, I would suggest trying to find new ways of communicating with her. Do you share a liking for similar music? Although you may not be a musician, there is nothing to stop you developing your understanding and intuitive feel for music. There are books and websites that illustrate the way in which classical music 'speaks' of love, sorrow, the crash and thunder of battle, etc. Probably a good place to start learning about such things.
As with other art disciplines, people learn to develop their senses and skills of interpretation around music. Some people seem to have a natural gift for it, but others can learn to appreciate the finer aspects.
Do you ask her how various pieces of music speak to her? How do they make her feel? What kind of music lifts her spirits? Does she ever release emotion when listening to music - does she cry for example. I would see that as a good sign, and something to work on. Music that makes you smile is good too.
Are there other aspects of art you could share, maybe painting? Doing it, or looking at other people's work. Photography perhaps? Some professional photographers are now using camera phones because they are so much more convenient in all kinds of situations.
The arts use all the senses to communicate with: sound, sight, touch, smell, taste, etc.
Massage is a great way to relax someone, and can be a stimulating prelude to making love. Massage, and all the various methods of lovemaking can be seen as forms of communication.
You mention that your g/f uses humour to avoid issues, could you turn that on its head and use humour to approach issues?
The fact that she doesn't self harm when you are around is a good sign - it suggest that she feels in contact with you.
The painful aspect for you is that she seems to need to control the distance of the closeness between you.
Rather like someone might turn the central heating up or down to regulate their sense of warmth, so it seems she needs to regulate the distance between you.
Little wonder you often feel as if you are out in the cold.
If you love her, then little wonder that you want to try and reach her, but don't forget the life-line, and your own welfare.
I hope this is of some help.
She may know how much you love her, but I doubt that she realises how much it hurts you when she tunes you out emotionally.
You need to take care.
Just one last question.
How should I come off as to her. A man that seems like no matter the game or tactic she throws at me wont even affect me.
A man that shows he's being affected.
With her mental state, how should I come off as at.
I seem like nothing bothers me, she goes off that I just dont care about losing her.
Other state of a personality i can show, well obviously I seem desperate and clingy to her.
What is it that she needs or needs to be shown in order for her to understand and not put blame or throw a temper tantrum.
Side note; you've honestly been able to dissect the whole thing, been able to dissect her entirely and be correct with how she is. in a matter of minutes with each post you make. Where it took me 3yrs to figure out, and where no one, let it be friends, mutal friends, other girls, or other females that are her friends. Only you have been able to understand.
I love her with all I can be. But I dont have much left to give for her every time this happens, and ive told her that the very last time this has happen. I dont know how to understand how shes able to loathe me one minute and love me the next. Ive seen bipolar at its finest, I doubt she has it but if she does its damn new to me.
If you're open and willing, is there anyway I can communicate with you without having to use this website. Via email or other wise. If so, my email is [e-mail address removed], send me one with yours. if not just say no. I will understand. But thank you for the help.
Google with the word: "ambivalence", and do some reading around the meaning of it.
See how it fits with your experience of your g/f.
Let me know where it leads you.
In the meantime, I will have a think about how you might proceed.
I will look on the board tomorrow evening to see if you have posted.
The word,'Ambivalent' describes hows it always been with us. Let it be with me, unsure on how we are once we reach this point, just the feeling of being unsecure.
Or with my g/f, with the push/pull motion she does in our realtionship. One moment, she love me, love being around me. Next moment, she loathes my presence and doesnt know what she wants from this.
There were some things last night she said when I with her. She was running a fever and she was tired. I know its on of my few openings I can use in order to get her to talk. Her mind isnt 100% there whenever shes like this. She more open and honest for some reason but brutal.
One of them was how she admits the way she treats me,she can acknowledge the fact that its wrong. She says I'm like a rag doll she just throws around. And that in a way thats why she likes me.
Another, was about how she isnt afraid about losing me or anything. But that everyday shes always ready to lose me. Especially when we have these talks, she feels like a pit in her stomach about it.
Last thing, was again how she feels like were stale and I'm just too nice, I dont stick up to myself with her.
She kept telling me things and would stop before she could finish cause she wanted to keep it a secret. That we just tell everything to each other, thats there is no mystery between us.
And she has a tendency to open up just about everything with me and she doesnt notice. But know she wants to control that.
So what hopes does she have for the future?
Does your relationship with her feature in her plans?
From what you have posted, it doesn't sound as if she gives you much positive feedback, even when in a good mood?
Does she have a history of family problems, difficult parenting, abuse maybe?
Has/does she use street drugs? Heavy use of alcohol?
Was she a happy child?
At what age did her mood swings start?
Is she on any kind of medication?
Has she had a comprehensive psychiatric assessment?
Based on what you have told me, I would think she might be helped by Dialectical Cognitive Behaviour Therapy.
Do you know what kind of treatments she has had to date?
As I'm sure you are aware, there is no easy answer to this - your g/f has a very complex and difficult to relate to personality.
Not sure whether it's any comfort to you, but not many people are going to be as understanding and durable as you, so her options re other intimate relationships are probably quite limited - in terms of them lasting, anyway. My guess is that she is aware of that.
Platonic friendships that don't involve deep emotion are likely to be easier for her than an intimate relationship that brings another person emotionally close to her.
The problem I see for you is that being in a long-term intimate relationship with her will be like seeing your self-image reflected in a cracked mirror. You by contrast are trying to reflect back a positive image of her to her even when she is being unpleasant.
This is why I think you must have a life-line to provide you with accurate feed-back to sustain your own self-image and mental health.
Do you think she would consider entering into long-term treatment? Quite possibly measured in years, rather than months.
If she uses street drugs, or alcohol, she would need to give them up.
To be honest with you, I doubt there is much you can do, other than what you are doing already. You can't be her therapist, or carer, and be her lover at the same time.
Her mother and father split I believe when she was still very young 5yrs old at the lastest. Maybe sooner. Her father is never really around. When he is, its very short. She always goes on that her mother is her father and mother. But she still loves her father, when his mother died not too long ago. She felt sad for him and cried for him more then the death of her grsndmother since she never really met her.
Low self-esteem from her family. Her mother can be bash with her, calling her stupid when she mskes a decision doesnt really agree on and she despises being called stupid, idiot or a moran from anyone. But she has the tendency to say it to others like shes giving out free candy. She is an average sized girl, 5'5", 5'6" and has a nice looking body. Not too thin but skinny.
But her family has always given her stuff about her weight. Like she looks like she gained some weight, or shes looking like she starting to grow. Things like that. Shes only told me this once, she cant remember very well, but she may have been sexual abused as a child. Who it is, I dont know. I thought it was best she drop it since I knew it would hurt her if she kept telling me anymore about it.
She doesnt do any drugs or drink heavily. She may have a mix drink maybe once a month, she doesnt put a lot of liquor in them maybe like a spalsh if anything.
Her father has a past history of alcoholism and she loathes alcholism, most of her relatives are more like the kind of people that act like thugs and from the street. Completly the opposite from her, her mother one sister and her younger brother.
I dont know what kind of therapy she has had. I just know she has had it back in her younger days. Middle school I believe. She stopped going around those years.
She was a shy child, still is. If I'm with her and we order a pizza. She doesnt want to talk them and rather I go get it. She has admitted and ive dealt with it, when she feels like she wants to just be isolated at times.
It hasnt happen in awhile where she wants to be alone.
And when her mood swings started. I couldnt tell you. She says its always been like that in her life.
There in lies my issue.
Whats the difference now compared to the other times this has happen?
It was the reason why we broke up the first 2times.
And shes not the type to beat around the bush about it if she wants the break up.
I was so confused when she didnt when I came back to her house. It was new. Its something she always runs to when it gets like this.
I dont know if its what I told her the very last time this happened, like 1 month before I left for training.
I told her that I couldnt do this anymore, the whole never knowing what she wants. If she wants me then we can work it out. And if not thats fine. But that I would require us to completely cut each other off if that happened. And I told I was trying to threaten her with it or make it drastic but it would be the only I knoe how for the both of us to get over us and to playing this game of on and off, on and off again. But if she needed me I would still be there. Other then that though, I would not know anything of her till I felt that I was ready.
I dont if she remebers that or not. I dont if thats the reason its different this time. And it was weird, when I threw a party, afterwards she like snapped out of her mood swing. Like it was normal again.
I can try to bring up gettjng help. But were both tight on money.
Has she tried antidepressant meds ? SSRIs might level her mood and help with being able to talk more about her inner thoughts and feelings.
It could also help with determining whether her depressive moods are a cause or a symptom.
Is there any history of diabetes in her family?
Hypoglycemia can produce swings of mood - definitely worth testing for to eliminate. May not be the whole cause if present. But getting blood sugar levels stable if relevant could be a considerable help.
Shes never taken any depression meds.
Last night was the worst.
Everything was fine. were messing around a bit. Again she stopped before anyhting happens. She asked what was with me, I guess I was coming off strong sexually or something. So I throw a joke and what not snd she jokes back. She said something, where I respond with so does that mean all the way(still joking)
And she like looks down, and says shes not ready to get intimate yet. And I just get bothered. Csuse it sucks and hurts being told things like that she just says dont get like that. And starts playing the show we were watching.
After awhile. She notices somethings up with me since I'm still bothered. And I just try to make it seem like its nothing. And I tell her we have to talk.
My worst mistake I made.
I have a bad way of trying to communicate. And what I say isnt what I'm thinking to mean in my head.
So she thinks that I'm just concerned about just the sex, whatever I try to say. And she doesnt see how telling me that she cant get intimate with me is a problem. I keep trying to explain that I dont care about the sex its just never a good sign whne your other half says stuff like that.
I poked too far...
She finally just blows up snd tells me she hasnt been able to be csuse she hstes the ways she looks snd feels disgusting about her body anytime we have sex.
Everything from there went down hill. She wants me to get out, she keeps locking herself in her bathroom and bedroom.
I dont leave and I know what I was doing was extremely. Unhealthy but I just stayed. I kept trying apologize. Nothing.
Eventually, she has to come out to take Care of her niece since her mother is leaving to go out.
Same thing, she wants me out. I have no where to go. No way home. I dont know why I say that out loud.
She keeps going in her room.
In short, she tells me to stay since I have no where to go.
She keep saying she feels better now. But she has this tone in her voice and the way shes acting. Anytime this hsppens it like still her but a different person at the same time. Non caring and says what she wants.
She put a jacket on when she said the first time she feels better now. And I know she had cut, she just flat out says she did after I ask her if shes cold. She knows I noticed.
After awhile she starts slowly coming back to herself. And we start talking. She starts saying everything she said about not feeling like she can be intimate cause she feels like were becoming like friends was just s lie and an excuse from telling me the truth since it hurts her think ing about how much she hates her self and her body.
Finslly snd I dont know why I coudnt hsve this so simple thing before.
I tell her I dont care if we have sex as long as were together and we love each other. It just hurts feeling and thinking like your other half finds you almost repulsing and not able to be intimate with you.
She says thats not what she meant and was sorry she made me feel like that.
I tell her from here on out if its something like that or anything. To just tell me its something that bothers her and doesnt want to talk to me about it instead of giving me some excuse.
As far as I know, were fine. I had a drill today and we went to bed at like 3 cause she was tired. She asked me to wske her before I left.
She showed me her cuts. Telling me she trusted me to want to show me her cuts.
I know its sick. All of it was last night.
That I'm her reason why she stopped and doesnt run to it. But that last night wasn't the same. Implying it was me that pushed her into her pain and demons.
And I feel like it was. I shouldnt have prodded around. But my intentions werent to hurt and lesst of all to cause her to run to that.
I have this extreme feeling of guilt.
She also said she wants to see me angry. That shes seen my better side, and that she wants to see my worst.
But I cant. When she gets in her strange state of mind. Its like a different person and she knows it. I dubbed it jellybean.
And thats where were similar.I have always built up my anger since I was a child. After awhile I learned how to contain it and b e calm. It takes a lot to even get close to get slightly upset and to show it.
But the few times it has come out, I'm by myself to release my anger so I dont hurt anyone(emotionally) I'm not physical.
When I'm that state of mind. Its not me, like my anger grows its own persona. I feel like I'm there but it controls me. I become more maniacal, I attack peoples weakness, I laugh at there attempts of help or there attempt to try to hurt or insult me back. Nothing bothers me and I almost find joy doing it. Etc.
Ive told her about it before. But she feels the extreme want to see him. That she wants to pretty much pit her other state of mind of hers with mine.
But I refuse. First of all it takes far to much before I cant control it and I start scting like that. Secondly, I feel like mine is fsr worst then hers. I know I would break her mentally and emotionally if she ever was around me at that time. Shes seen it slighly one time. It wasnt at fullest and she could barely handle that, it was the first time I blacked out from it. Luckily the bits I csn remember, I was monotone, blunt so i wasnt that bad. I never mean anything when I get like that but I just say things to hurt them.
I never want her to see me at my worst. Its not me, its evil and cruel. The opposite of me.
Were sick and I dont know what to do other then still love her and be with her
The issue over having sex, and not being in the same place at the same time, is the kind of thing many couples have arguments over.
But the reason for your g/f's refusal, and her reaction sounds very different.
I think it's likely that there is some association between your g/f's low self-esteem and poor self-image, and something that has happened in the past to do with sex and personal boundaries.
When you suggest sex you are also raising the issue of you crossing over into her personal space, physically and psychologically.
Think of it as someone who is having an evening in at home on their own in front of the TV when they haven't done the dishes or tidied the house up. Instead of getting the place straight, they've pushed the chores out of mind and intend watching a movie.
Then without any notice, a friend knocks on the door, and they fly into a panic because the house is in such a state. They do like the caller, but feel angry because the unexpected visit has caught them at a bad time.
What happens with your g/f is probably a lot more involved and difficult to handle, but hopefully you get the idea.
As I mentioned earlier, you can't be her lover and her therapist.
She might tidy the house up and stuff things back in cupboards and drawers in order to get back in a more reasonable mood, but the difficult stuff doesn't go away.
Unlike inanimate objects, the stuff will climb out of the cupboards again, even though she may try and ignore it.
It won't be long before she finds the place is in a bit of a mess again.
If she was motivated to work at sorting things out once and for all with the help of therapy, then maybe some of the ugly stuff could be put out as garbage, with other stuff being folded up neatly and packed away.
Therapy can't change the past, but sometimes it can make memories easier to live with. Which means less energy is spent on defending the messy house (back to the analogy).
What I'm saying here is a gross over-simplification, even if my theory about the cause of the troublesome issues is anywhere near the truth.
I do think there is more to your g/f's behaviour than immaturity and depression, although both may be relevant symptoms.
I am just guessing - see it as a hypothesis which might be useful as a place to start from.
Your g/f would need to provide a detailed history of her past as far back as she can remember. Which in itself can be quite harrowing if abuse is part of her history.
She would need to be motivated enough to do battle with her psychological defences and look closely at the stuff that causes her to feel ugly. Which is not something that people do because someone else wants them to, they have to do it because they want to.
Psychological therapy is not an exact science, so there is no guarantee that she would come out of therapy any better off.
It's not something that could be done over the Internet.
I'm not sure I get what you are saying about your own way of handling things - you seem to be saying that difficult stuff bounces off you, but then much of what you say suggests otherwise.
Are you both stuck in a unhealthy relationship? I would say that's very possible.
It might be that there is something about this relationship that keeps you in it apart from the fact that your g/f is pretty and intelligent.
Based on what you have posted here, there is a lot missing from your relationship - you may look like an ideal couple from the outside, but you're not connected up emotionally and psychologically as most close couples would expect to be.
I don't think it's healthy for you to keep accommodating to her (not for you, or her) but if you stop, the relationship may well fly apart.
But in the longer term, that might be for the best, although I feel sure you won't see it that way.
Sorry. I wrote this with no sleep.
I dont know whats gonna happen. I have brought up getting help but she doesn't want it. She just says its something she has to figure out.
Things hit a whole different level last night. I dont know how she will be with me for now. I dont know how to even talk to her right now. Act like nothing happened, leave her be for a bit, I just dont know.
Things were extremely toxic last night. I love her and I know I cant be everything for her. And I know maybe with help things will at least be a bit smoother between us.
She has given me an apple knife she used for cutting a week after I got back. She seemed so sad about handing it over to me. And now showing me her cuts.
I can handle it but I just dont know how to respond or even act for now.
I doubt there's much you can do.
Your suggestion of sex may have tipped her into acute ambivalence, i.e. she froze up emotionally caught up in a love/hate lock-up, and then cutting provided a release.
Taking the knife away isn't going to stop her next time - she will just get another knife.
Look up "transference" with google, you might get some insight into why she appears to act badly to you.
If there was abuse in her family, of her, or another family member, she may be conflicted over doing anything that opens up a can of worms for other family members - could be an added complication.
I could be wrong of course, but there are multiple indicators pointing to some kind of abuse in the past.
If she was in therapy, her hostile reactions towards you might provide an opportunity for some constructive work.
What is this guy she slags you off to about? Is he a wanna-be therapist, or is he hoping to become more than a good friend?
If he's using her offloading as a means for deepening the relationship he has with her for his own ends, he's probably in for a shock - positive transference can very quickly turn to negative transference.
Read up on transference, and also the 'Karpman Triangle', should give you a framework to make more sense of what is going on - or rather, what might happen next.
But the bottom line is, even if you get more understanding and insight, you won't be able to fix her, only she can do that with the right kind of help.
You sound a decent guy who doesn't deserve this - think hard about what you might be missing out on if you were with someone else.
I really enjoyed those pieces of information. Thank you.
For now she says it best that I dont come by her house for a couple of days since her mother is upset at me. I dont know what her mother knows.
And that we need to talk.
When I finally had the chance, she said she was in the car about to go get food, I asked her to just call me once she gets home. She responds that shes hanging out with herein bandmate friend. But that she\'ll call me once she gets home.
I already knew she wasnt. And again, I was right.
My guess she kinda wants to post pone it till she figures out what to say, probably hear her bandmates opnion and I know how much she hates conversations like these.
But those are my guesses.
She doesnt respond to anything if I say I love you. I had to see how bad she is. So ill throw an I love you or something of the sort. For the modt part she wont respond at all, or just not reply to the I love you if my messages contain other things.
So shes ignoring all.
I know I didnt put the blade to her arm. But I cant let go of that guilt. I have the what-ifs going through my head, what if I just left, what if I just dropped the conversation? Etc. Even though I know nothing will change it and she really wanted to cut, she would cut no matter the choice I made.
Last thing I sent was, I know you are busy but whenever you\'re free. I\'m here to have that talk.
She never responded and I expected her not to. But I just wanted to throw the pressure on her to intiate the conversation. And her not to be sble to say I didnt care or something.
Should I just call and intiate it? I would love to do it in persin but I doubt neither her mother or her want me to be around her.
For now I\'m gonna give her space. Not text my usual good mornings or what not. I just dont know what she wants to talk about specifically or if its a break up shes looking for.
I just need to know how to proceed. And I have thought the things I may be missing in a healther relationship. But i still love her. Maybe its my youth, maybe I\'m just used to the emotional abuse since I was a child, I couldnt tell you which is it. But I just love that girl. And even with her messed up life. Shes an extremely unique and one kind of person.
Also, if you have anything else you think I should read about, I would greatly appreciate it.
I think giving her some space is a really good idea.
I'm great believer in the saying: "Actions speak louder than words" ... so why not stand back and wait to see if she shows any commitment to your relationship?
I get the impression that by trying to fix things you are becoming part of the problem (ref : Karpman).
Apart from the problems that she clearly has, she is young and has been with you for much of her youth, so might want to experiment with other relationships.
I can imagine how hard it is for you to step out of the loop, but I really do think that is your best course of action for now.
Get yourself someone to talk to about all this: a friend, a relative, or a counsellor.
I feel like its a game again.
I dont know if shes putting me off with having the conversation, either to play a game, to see how it goes with her bandmate( thats a random guess of mine), or be cause shes scared.
I dont want to do the norm and wait anymore.
But nor do i want to push her again and she cuts again.
I just want the convo over with to see what happens from here. Either she decides to do something or she breaks up. I just want it dealt with already.
How should I proceed and whats your best guess of what probably is going threw her mind.
Also, my anxiety got the best of me and I called her. She didnt pick up and again no return call or a text.
Thats why I wonder, if its a talk she wants. Why wait.
And the reason I say the band mate is like you said.
Shes knows I'm always there. What if shes giving a feel with how it is with him. Post poning the convo till she figures it out. And if it doesnt seem right, then I'm still here.
Its a random thought and I'm probably wrong. Shes been able to break up with me in the past if its something she didnt want. But I dont know
I think you need to stop trying to get into her head, because you can't, and even if you could it's likely to be a place you wouldn't want to be.
Stand back and wait and see what happens.
Whatever the reasons are, she doesn't appear to be showing much commitment to your relationship.
You've said that she sees you as a rag-doll that she throws around when it suits her - sounds like she throws you away knowing that you will come running back.
This can't be doing your self-esteem any good at all. She may have problems, but I think you might be using the issues she has as an excuse to avoid accepting the fact that you don't have much of a relationship with her.
Sounds as if her mother sees you as the problem, or at the very least part of the problem, so read the writing on the wall instead of what you imagine is written between the lines.
It won't be easy to stand back after three years, but to break the pattern and to stop being "the rag-doll" you need to take responsibility and control of your own behaviour.
Resist the urge to keep contacting her, and see what happens. If she cuts herself that's her responsibility not yours. If you keep calling her then people around her will probably see you as the bad guy, not the rescuer (Karpman).
If you want to rescue something, then make it your own dignity, i.e. stop being the rag-doll.
If she wants to have an intimate relationship with this other guy, you can't alter that.
Standing back is going to hurt, but the anxiety and the hurt will lessen with time.
If she then decides she wants to try again with you, my advice is for you to insist that she gets some professional help for her mood swings and unstable behaviour.
We worked things out I. The mean time. For how long...I dont knwo and thats horrible to say.
But I'm going to give a bit till I offer the advice for help.
For V-day she bought a $139.00 watch and a $50 flask.
Which surprised me with everything that happened.
But, so far shes been wanting to be cautious on how many days we hang out. She says she doesn't want to get back to what we used to which was, only hang out with me for 96% of the time which caused her to start feeling stale and mundane.
Im able to give her, her space but it sucks in a way in my head that I cant have a a normal relationship. That I have to be careful on how long I see her with out her flipping shit..
I have read all the article's I can on the drama triangle and the winners trianlge, but in your eyes, in your honest opnion. What should I do in this time. I dont want to be the rescuer anymore...
Having a life other than with your partner is a good thing imo - providing there is a boundary around the intimate relationship that makes it exclusive and sets it apart from friendships.
Having friends to talk to when things get rocky with an intimate partner can be helpful, but much depends on the friend doing the listening and how they respond. If they take a negative view of the other partner, then it can be unhelpful.
I don't think an intimate relationship can be run by "committee", i.e. meaning when someone has to ask other people what to do all the time. Getting impartial advice is one thing, running your life based on other people's opinions is another.
Your g/f seems to choose members of the opposite sex to off-load to, and I do think that carries a further risk - i.e. the potential for a new rescuer to come along.
I also think that when someone is in a intimate relationship they need to give some thought to the long-term progress of the relationship, i.e. if they poison their partner's reputation by slagging them off negatively whenever angry with them to family and friends, it's going to make any long-term plans difficult.
Which imo all points to the value of her seeking some professional help.
In your first post it did sound as if immaturity could explain much of your g/f 's behaviour. But the more you have posted, the more complex she looks to be as a person. If she doesn't get some professional help, then imo, she could carry on as she is into middle age, or even longer, although perhaps to a lesser degree. People with volatile personalities like your g/f sometimes 'burn out' as they get older.
The bottom line is that it's your life, and you do have three years worth of past experience to go by. Who knows what the future may hold? Sometimes things happen to people and it has a profound effect on them, and they do change suddenly. But in my experience, such happenings are the exception and not the rule.
As far as spending less time together goes, I think that is a good idea, and will be the best for both of you.
Having interests outside of the relationship is generally a good thing anyway, and I do think you need to find support and succor in other aspects of life. You have mentioned that you were in the National Guard, so does that offer any opportunities to meet with like-minded people and enjoy some camaraderie? I really do think it would be valuable for you to develop a life outside of this relationship. I think it would be good for the relationship, and could also provide a social safety-net if the relationship does eventually fail.
Going by what you have posted on this forum, I think the biggest issue is going to be over quality not quantity, i.e. how close you can get to her, and how deep the relationship can become while remaining stable. As long as you are seeing each other regularly, I don't think time counts for too much. If you are spending 96% of your time together, then I do think cutting down is a good idea.
If cutting down causes you to feel insecure, which is not the same as missing someone's company, then maybe that's because of lack of trust?
Trusting someone involves regarding them as being fairly predictable, which is not the easiest of things with your g/f.
But you can't keep watch over her all the time - sentry duty doesn't fit well with romantic relationships.
The only way to find out if someone is going to remain faithful is to give them enough rope to demonstrate their commitment.
If you feel that this relationship can meet your various needs in a healthy way, then however worrying the risk may be, you will need to take it and show some trust in her.
Having a life outside of the relationship will help you to cope if the worst happens.
There is usually a pattern to people's behaviour, even when at first glance they appear to lead chaotic lives. I can see patterns in what you have posted above, and I expect you can too!