I'll start from the beginning because I'm hoping that the details matter and can help someone to give me some good advice.
Back in 2008 – 2010, I had a two and a half year relationship with a girl, who loved me. I ddin't realise I loved her (and didn't tell her I loved her until then because I didn't want to lie to her, even though she had been regularly telling me she loved me for the past 2 years) until the last month or so of the relationship at which point she left me and quickly started seeing someone else. Nothing bad happened in the relationship, I think she just felt the strain of not being loved back for so long and I don't blame her for that. She's happy now and I'm happy for her. I was devestated after we broke up, I'd never known emotions and pain like it. It took me two years to recover from that and I said to myself after it ended that I would never love again because it's not worth risking how terrible it can make you feel if it ends.
I stuck to that for 3 years, I saw a lot of in that time girls, but I told them all I didn't want a relationship from the start as I didn't want to to lead them on or be responsible for making other people feel like I did, or have them grow attached to me when I knew I wouldn't reciprocate it as it's not a nice feeling and it's not fair on the girl.
Around May 2013, I met a girl who I was instantly attracted to. I'd never met anyone who I got on with like her in my life, I didn't know people like that existed. We spoke everyday via facebook for a few months and then she said that she had recently split up with her ex (a couple of months ago – before she started talking to me) and it was a terrible breakup. He broke up with her and she was really upset and wanted to be with him even though he said he fell out of love with her and she found messages to another girl telling her he still loved this other girl. She continued sleeping with him until around the start of 2014 and wanted to be with him, but he kept saying he didn't want to be with her. She then blocked all contact with him because it was making her feel too bad. Me and her had continued to talk almost everyday and were really close friends. Around the middle of February we got together and it was going really well. It got to the middle of May and I realised I was falling in love with her. I told her I was close to loving her and she told me she was nearly there too. I was so happy, especially as I'd thought that I'd never let myself love again. It got to around th end of May and she messaged me one day saying we she had something to tell me. She came round mine after work and she told me her ex had messaged that morning saying he realised he loved her back in January when she blocked him and that he wanted to get back with her. She told me she considered it when she read that message from her ex and that she wasn't sure what to do. I comforted her, ran her a bath, and she stopped stopped round mine that night and we had sex. She left in the morning and I got a message that evening asking if I'd still be friends with her if she was alone for a bit to think about things. I said yes of course. I was really upset but I understood it must be difficult for her.
We remained in contact with each other every day and at the start of July, she messaged me saying "you're not going to like this but me and 'her ex' are going to give it another go". This, again, was reminiscent of my previous relationship and it the feeling was even worse than last time. I was depressed, I didn't want to be awake because it just meant I thought of her which was so painful. We had a short break from speaking to try and help the process. After a couple of weeks we started talking again and I realised it was her life and her happiness that was important, I wished her well and hoped she was happy with her new boyfriend. It hurt me, but I knew that would pass and I was just glad she was in my life because she was also my best friend. I spoke to her every day still and she slowly got more distant as time went on, and around the August she said she was ill and needed a break because everything was so stressful. She didn't message me for 3 weeks or so and every day she was pretty much all I thought about. Hoping she was ok and that we could go back to being friends again soon. Towards the end of August she called me and we had a long chat and I was so happy, we were talking again like normal until one day she didn't reply to my message for 2 days which was odd then asked me what happened the night she came round and told me her ex messaged her.
I told her she came round about 8, she had a bath, I comforted her, she went to sleep and I did some work whiel she was asleep. I got into bed, and we started having sex (she was facing the wall, and I turned her onto her back and we started havign sex missionary) I was close to coming and asked her if she wanted me to come and she nodded. She then kissed me briefly on the lips, twice and we both went back to sleep. She called said I was lying and that she was asleep and woke up when I was having sex with her and that we weren't going out at the time, adn that I she also didn't kiss me or nod when I asked her if she wanted me to come.
I was shocked that she would say that, as that's what I remember. I told her I'd do anything to prove that that was what I remembered and that I wasn't lying, I offered to take a polygraph test, to get hypnotised and then ask me to repeat what happened that night, to talk to a psychologist. Anything. She said she wouldn't give me the time of day then blocked me on facebook and blocked my number.
I was so bewildered about where this came from. This was over 3 months after this took place and I have no idea why she would say this now, she'd never mentioned it before...she even said to me "when you comforted me that night (when she came round and told me her ex had messaged her) that was the nicest thing anyone has ever done for me". She had wrote me letters saying she loved me and she'd alwasy been my friend since, and we were still really close. I think it's the fact she thinks I was lying about what I remembered that caused her to cut me off, and I feel like I've been put in prison for a crime I didn't commit. That is what I remember, and I'd be willing to do anything to prove that. I don't know why her memory of the event would be different, but I do know that she believes her memory as much as I believe mine, I know though that one (or both) of our recollections are not accurate and it could be mine as much as it could be hers.
I feel like I've lost my soul, like it's been taken from me unjustly. That the person I loved most in the world thinks I'm lying about something that I'm not. I've waited for a few weeks to see if time would help like it did in the past but it hasn't. I feel so empty, and betrayed, like I've been robbed emotionally. I can't go round knowing someone I loved so much thinks I'm lying and won't let me prove to them that I'm not. I don't know what to do, but I'm willing to do anything to show that I'm not lying. I don't want to be friends with he again after that, I feel betrayed after what she's said to and done to me, but I do want her to know I was telling the truth about what I remembered. Does anyone have any advice? Is there anyone I could see? Anyone I could talk to about this? Anything I could do to prove that's what I remember? I can't go around like this, knowing that I've lost the one I love for a reason that isn't true. I also don't understand why would she only just mention this now, over 3 months later, and why she would have a different recollection of it to me. I think that in her mind she came over to break up, but from my POV she didn't know what to do. She stayed round mine, naked in my bed, I thought she was confused but hadn't ended things. I didn't know until the next day, but she thinks I'm lying about that too.
I really really appreciate anyone's advice on this, and thank you for reading such a long post. If anyone has any questions about anything that might help me see what's going on, or how to fix it, then I'm more than happy to answer them.
I know people will probably say just leave it and her alone, but I've tried and I just can't go around knowing that the person I loved thinks that of me.
Perhaps she had remorse about having se x with you and conjured up this story or she was looking for an excuse to cut you off completely with that accusation. Or she felt you took advantage or her because she was sleeping and not fully awake to give consent. (You don't say she said no or pushed you away at any time, but she claims that she didn't give consent.)
In any case, try to move on from this very confusing event.
In the meantime, try to figure out why you hook up with emotionally unavailable women. She was never truly yours, completely. You deluded yourself by thinking if you gave her unconditional love, she would come around.
Also, promise yourself you will only have sex with fully awake, committed women who know what they want.
Peace, now. And go on.
Of COURSE she's not then going to be interested in seeing proof. She relies on a distinct lack of it. She also relies on being left alone with her culpability-avoiding self-delusion, not tolerating a constant reminder-to-the-contrary-on-legs. Every declaration of innocence of yours poses as a declaration of her dishonesty, PARTICULARLY given that people don't fight that hard to uphold a lie. Only those who KNOW they're telling the truth are like a dog with a bone. It's precisely the gross injustice they feel over being called a liar that gives them that energy.
For wholly indicative example: if you and she were not going out as she purports, WTH was she doing BEING IN YOUR BED!
Aside from that, unless she was on sleeping pills or your nickname's Justin, it's utterly PURILE to claim one can stay even semi-asleep whilst someone's started penetrating you without the natural lubrication that occurs from *awareness*, let alone when undergoing a damn good rogering.
As I see it, you have yet to accept a social truth in that lying is not bad any more than 'guns kill'. Guns do not kill, they're just tools that sit there inanimate. PEOPLE kill. But equally they can use a gun to defend the innocent against the non-innocent. So it's whatever lays behind the liar's INTENTION that dictates whether the act is good/altruistic or bad/selfish. You're apparently too hell bent on being honest no matter what. And you're also sticking too rigidly to your misbelief that because YOU choose to behave like x, y and z, so must other people. No, they don't. Some of them use lies solely to satisfy majorly selfish aims rather than for reasons of integrity. And that kind of moral difference makes for a chasmic incompatibility once the honeymoon high settles down a bit, meaning it CAN'T ultimately last.
In other words, I agree with Suzie that you dodged an almighty bullet.
Accept that she's not as upstanding a person as you yourself aspire to be and, as such, you and she weren't meant to be in any permanent sense, but that each new partner with whom you practise having a relationship takes you closer and closer to being able to recognise your ideal match. That's the whole point of dating: learning how you tick, how other types tick, which type you click best with, and using that knowledge to make cannier choices.
The pain of heartache is just a fleeting sense of diappointment to the power of '100', meant to make you introspect as well as give you the motivation to pick/try harder next time, NOT to send you back into your protective shell and, as Susie observed, picking partners with whom there's no danger of getting in really deep (with the potential hurt likewise increased). The worst of the pain should not last beyond a couple of months. If it does, then what's hurting is your refusal thus struggling against accepting the event as valid and useful and beyond your control.
You know this yourself deep down because if you stand back and take another look at your own post, what you overall said was this: I met Ms 60% Right, thought she was the bees' knees but then realised she wasn't when I met Ms 70% right!
And so that pattern shall merrily continue.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Your muscles feel painful the day after a strenuous work-out, right? Well, who told you that for every physical phenomena there isn't some psychological equivalent? There is. So by the time you meet the woman you're intended to STAY with, emotionally you'll be as packed as Van Damme...which will come in extremely handy!
It's all good. It just hurts and disrupts your normal functionality...bit like a hospital stay after having caught pneumonia.
So, in summary, you can now go around knowing that someone is merely trying to KID herself - using you as her tool.
In reply to the points made: She said to me that "Just because I didn't push you away or say no, it doesn't mean I agreed to it" It didn't cross my mind until she said that she was asleep until she said she was a couple of weeks ago when this was all brought up. It confused me...it didn't make sense because she's a light sleeper, and as Soulmate said, it takes a while to penetrate someone, as well as turn them around and get on top of them....all without waking up? I guess it;s possible and I really think that is what she believes. I think she has convinced herself of that for whatever reason.
In terms of giving her my unconditional love, I waited for months, I actually pushed her away for a while until I felt safe. I don't think she was emotionally unavailable...or if she was, she had convinced herself that she wasn't. She told me she was the happiest she'd ever been, and that she almost loved me too. I don't think she was emotionally unavailable, I just think it really screwed her up when her ex, who she had been so distraught over and wanted without being able to have him for so long messaged her back just as she was close to loving me. I can put myself in that situation though, as if I was in her shoes and going out with someone, just 6 months after my ex left me then...I don't know what I would do in that situation but whatever decision I made would be difficult and would involve hurting someone. Besides, I don't hold that against her. I loved her so much that if she would be happier with her ex than me then ok, I wouldn't want to hold her back from someone who would make her happy, that's just selfish.
Also, she didn't cheat on her ex-not-ex...she wasn't with him at all when we were together and had cut him out. I do however think she feels guilty for having sex with me after he ex had messaged her and that could make her re-construct her memory for a number of reasons including: if she see's it the way she see's it and not how I saw it, then that would make her feel less guilty about it. It would also help her in her ex's eyes, and make her feel better about herself in that regard.
I don't think she's a bad person at all, she was always really good to me when we were together and she was still really nice to me (outside of hurting me, which isn't really being a bad person in this situation) and she wrote me a huge letter saying how sorry she was, how difficult the decision was and how I was her favourite person in the world and that she did love me, but just not in that way. Of course, I realise that I could be doing the same thing by not believing she is a bad person or not believing that she knows I'm not lying.
I do completely accept that she is with a new partner, and that she doesn't want me in her life. That's fine. Well, it's not fine, I do feel betrayed, after she did that despite what she said BUT the thing that I can't accept is that she thinks I'm lying. That's the worst thing. I don't want her to know I'm not lying so I can be friends with her again, I know that can never happen now after this. I just want her to know I'm not lying so I can feel a sense of peace/justice.
I see your point about lying being a tool to achieve a means to an end, and not being bad or evil in and of itself. I do truly believe that she believes I'm lying though, she was going through a traumatic time. I think that someone must have planted the idea in her head though otherwise why would she not mention it for over 3 months and now suddenly say that? Unless someone has spoken to her and convinced her into believing that. I think you're right about her looking for an excuse to cut me off. I've spoken at length with my friends and they all, independently of each other have said it sounds as though her ex-not-ex didn't want me to be friends with her and slowly made her more cold and distant and finally she found a reason in her own mind to cut me off in a way that would improve her relationship with him and also wouldn't make her feel guilty.
If she had said to me that she needed to cut off contact with me because it was causing problems in her current relationship and that it was making her unhappy then I would have understood. It would have hurt a lot for a while, but I know it would be ok soon. It's just the sense of injustice I have that is different from the hurt of a relationship ending, or someone you loved cutting you off, and it's that that I really want to find a way to solve.
She has showed me that I am capable of love again though. I am thankful for that.
"f she see's it the way she see's it and not how I saw it, then that would make her feel less guilty about it. It would also help her in her ex's eyes, and make her feel better about herself in that regard."
Precisely. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if the ex-not-ex had recently insisted with an ultimatum that she now, finally, burn the bridge between you and she for the sake of his peace of territorial mind. That being the case, her needing to guarantee him that there couldn't ever come a chance of you making contact, what better way than to insult the hell out of your very obvious core moral value called a sense of justice? Either that or it was her desperately scrabbling around for a reason for her tardy action that you - Mr Conscientious Sucker For Guilt - would accept as plausible, just because she didn't want to admit or didn't know how to explain her real reasons.
DON'T hold back in future. Not running a race to the best of your capability guarantees you'll lose (duh). If you know you're intrinsically a good person who knows the correct way to treat other people, if YOU like you, then the fact these relationships haven't worked out have far less to do with your romantic behaviour including at what precise point you dare to unleash your fuller feelings and how, etc., then, when a relationship ends it simply boils down to this: Right Qualities (yours), WRONG RECIPIENT. You do have counterparts out there who think and act exactly like you. You just haven't crossed paths with them yet.
For example: relationship gurus tell you not to say this or do that, at all or until X point. But trust me, when you meet one of your Ms Rights (and especially if you've held out for the very best of that best), the relationship rulebook GOES STRAIGHT IN THE BIN. It becomes worthy of nothing but amused derision. You and she will breaking all the so-called rules, LIKING IT, and seeing the relationship 'miraculously' flourishing because of it.
That's near-as-damnit perfect chemistry and compatibility for ya. The rest just comes down to a willingness to always give your best effort and never rest too much on your laurels.
Authentic love needs no rules. You and she will, for prime example, be able to go so-called "ooh, too fast, tut-tut-tut" as much as you damn well like (you'll just pay beadier/faster attention to compensate), and things will constantly get sorted out, overlooked, worked around, put right and forgiven for the simple reason that the relationship otherwise is utterly perfect for you both and the chemistry so damn out-of-this-world magical that you'd both rather cut off your arms than ever risk losing it or letting it get away. It's then that you realise the rule book is written purely for whenever a two-person combination ISN'T QUITE RIGHT (Control Freakery & Shoe-Horning, How To). Which is why I think you'll find, our entire planetary descendants struck lucky and stayed lucky enough to chain-replicate all the way to us lot, right here, right now. And all without the aid of any rule books or even conscious thought/decisions.
When your combination is right, it's right, whereupon, short of behaving outright anti-socially or sociopathically, you couldn't kill it even if you tried.
Right Qualities, Wrong Recipient... Keep trucking and upgrading, upgrading, upgrading... ta-daaa - perfect edition!
Holding back does damage. No more holding back. Give it your best shot irrespective of the crushing disappointment as lays you low for a little while afterwards, so that you can always walk away knowing its failure was NOT down to you or anything you did or didn't do or when, but was merely a sign made manifest that the combination wasn't quite right enough to last. BER-BOM.
I *guarantee* you that in however much time from now you'll be raising a glass to the fact missy here wasn't emotionally available followed by dumping you when she did and then giving you affronting-style closure. You and your soulmate will be very, very grateful to *both* your respective exes. I repeat, very grateful.
Keep the faith. The perfect-for-you relationship does exist. And then even hundreds of past heartbreak episodes feel worth it.
Would I go through all the heartache I endured on my path to my- not just husband, but outright soulmate? BRING IT ON!!!!
I'll shut up now, LOL. Other than [crowd groans] to say this regarding the tweak you apparently need to your interpersonal skills: learn to lie in order to be kind, both to the other person's sensitivities AND to your near-future self who might well be about to experience a change of heart for all you know. Stop treating feelings as if they're permanent and unlikely to alter. They grow/change and surprise you.
Try this tried and tested statement: draw a line on a sheet of paper; make a mark about a 10th the way along from the left; and say this: This is the little of you I've had the time and opportunity to get to know. But I love ALL of it! (Bish, bash, bosh, sorted - no disappointment and retreating on her part. 10p, please. )
PS: My soulmate never shuts up, either.
SHE is the liar! (do you realize with she is accusing you of?)
Stop defending her or rationalizing her thinking.
Like I said: Get away, far away from her.
I understand...it's just difficult because I have this burning desire inside of me to right a wrong. It's not going to stop me from loving in the future, but I hope the burning sense of injustice will eventually fizzle out into nothingness, as it seems there is no logic or reasoning that will enable me to show her that I am telling her what I remember. I feel I could show her a video of that night and it'd still be greeted with "I haven't got time for that bullshit." because - defence mechanisms to assuage guilt.
Yes. Or she'd watch it, but then blurt, 'That's not even ME!', LOL.
The gross indignation will wear off where she and her notably over-tardy excuse-out-of-thin-air are concerned, yes. But it'll probably always bother you that there are adults in this world that are actually still children, emotionally, and act accordingly, that exploit truth/reality as if were a tool for lying and laid on purely for their selfish convenience, that would rather use other people's moral sensitivities against them than not ever get their spoiled-baby way, and then have the temerity to claim to your face that the sky is NOT Blue, it's Green with Purple spots.
And good job, too, because if not, that make you 'one of them' and the natural world balance might then be out of whack.
But you don't need to sit there itching as if it's your responsibility to put her straight, like some vigilante soothsayer, tempting though I know it is. You can give them a piece of your mind, sure. But beyond that, that's what Fate and Karma are for. "What goes around comes around". It really, honestly does, WITHOUT FAIL. It's only ever a matter of By When, not Whether. The (at the time, irritatingly) longer that "comes around" seems to be taking to hit them left-field, the more sure you can be that it's a humdinger which, accordingly, is just taking longer than normal to prepare and position.
Mother Nature is very, very fair. She just refuses to be bossed about by her own kids.
Discussion closed - why not create your own thread?