I've been married to my husband now for 2 years, we have 2 children together and i also have a daughter from a previous relationship.
I met my now husband in a darts team but already knew of him as he is the same age as my sister and went through most of his school years with her. In Oct 2007 we had our first child (we had been together nearly 2 years)
Around a year later i found some messages on facebook where he and my sister had been having a chat(he was quite forward in the things he said) she was not really replying in the same way as him but she wasn't telling him to stop it either, i confronted him about the messages and asked hi, if anything had ever happened, shamefully he bowed his head and said they had kissed on the previous boxing day ( when our son was just 9 weeks old)
Over time i forgave them and carried on (we all have mad moments when drunk)although i put it to the back of my mind i still had a real strong feeling that more than that had happened, i would on occasions ask him if i definately know everything and the reply would be "yes, it was a stupid mistake all i want is you" so i carried on.
Now 7 years down the line with it still bugging me, i tricked him by telling him whilst he had been away on a stag do that my sister had told me everything and that i wanted to hear it from him, he continued to say nothing but his face said it all!
After a while he decided that he would confess that the night that they "kissed" was actually full sex. He also proceeded to tell me (only cause i said i knew everything) that they had exchanged recent videos of eachother naked and masturbating.
When i comfronted my sister she came to see me and promised me that weren't having an affair and that it has only happened one, i have stayed with my husband as he begged me too and i genuinely feel like he does want me, but in the back of my mind i wonder how much he thinks about her? also whenever he messages me something nice i wonder if it was meant for me or her.
I recently checked his phone bill and he messaged her 9 times the morning after i found out the truth (when i told him to have no more contact whatsoever) she says he messaged saying sorry and it was all his fault and he hoped he hadn't ruined mine and my sister relationship, he says he messaged saying sorry but he didn't keep the messages to show me nor did he explain in much detail what was said. This is the thing that's now playing on my mind (how does saying sorry take 9 messages!?) I'm still convinced more went on but they both assure me otherwise. I thought we were making progress but i've gone bk to square one with christmas approaching as christmas would usually be spent at my mums with the whole family but i cant bear the atmosphere with him and my sister and me. This then makes me feel angry as i love the christmas routine but it will never be the same again.
This all happened in june this year 2014.
Since i found out we have prob had sex 6 times (in 5 months)this is because i feel i don't want to be close and feel angry.
Sex is not an issue because i think of them together it's purely because i feel angry and feel he dosen't deserve it.
Talk to your man about it and to your sis too
What do you want help with? If I were a Fairy Godmother with a wand for granting you three wishes, what would they be?
I have spoken to them both on many occasions, today even I discussed with my sister than I'm still not convinced that the messages the next day were as they say they were, but she assures me that they were only him saying sorry and that she prob should of kept them to show me too. If I had 3 wishes it would be that I could forget about it and realise that they will def learn from this and never think of doing it again,I would wish that I could get trust back over time, last wish would be that my sister finds someone she really loves and can settle down.
I noticed that all of your wishes are for behaviors of other people.
Can you make 3 wishes for YOURSELF?
Madam, I'm sorry to say you sound like a doormat. Little wonder even people who never should do so walk all over you.
Time to grow a backbone.
"I have spoken to them both on many occasions, today even I discussed with my sister than I'm still not convinced that the messages the next day were as they say they were, but she assures me that they were only him saying sorry and that she prob should of kept them to show me too. If I had 3 wishes it would be that I could forget about it and realise that they will def learn from this and never think of doing it again,I would wish that I could get trust back over time, last wish would be that my sister finds someone she really loves and can settle down."
Isn't it SO EASY for her to say she probably should have kept them. You'd think that would have occurred to her at the time, wouldn't you? OF COURSE IT WOULD, what is she - thick? There's your husband telling her she and he have both been found out A SECOND TIME - this time of having an ACTUAL (as in full-blown) affair with each other - but there's her, supposedly innocent yet NOT then and there thinking, 'Sh*t, she's bound to confront me and find it hard to know who's word to take, so I'd better keep these innocent texts to PROVE we're innocent'?
You found them flirting on Facebook, and because they thought they'd got away with it (because you failed to slam your foot down) they continued flirting to point of having an affair featuring full-blown sex! Why ELSE would your husband confess this and a whole load of other stuff if it weren't true. Answer: because it IS true and therefore he believed your sister had cracked and confessed this truth. Had he known in his mind it had NOT been true yet that your sister had supposedly said it WAS, his immediate reaction would have been this: "WHY THE HELL WOULD SHE SAY SUCH A HEINOUS THING - SHE'S LYING, WHY WOULD SHE LIE LIKE THAT?!', etc.
If you ask me, the only thing they learned the first time was to be a whole lot more secretive and careful about it.
What kind of man shares a sexual act of fore-foreplay with another woman when his wife's just only recently given birth/his baby's only 9 weeks old! Worse - what kind of man chooses HIS WIFE'S VERY OWN SISTER to snog then take further to a full-blown affair?! It may test the willpower to stop yourself in your tracks when the woman concerned is a STRANGER stood in front of you and ready to kiss you back, but - when it's YOUR WIFE'S OWN SISTER? If he were a decent man normally but up until that precise moment just in some long-term really bad way emotionally or *drunk, then, the FACT that the face and lips he was about to step onto the sexual path with via a full-blown, opened-mouthed, sexual kiss belonged to none other than your sister/his own sister-in-law would have been one of the biggest buckets of cold water in the face EVER, a la (you'd think, out-loud), 'Oh my GOD, WTF am I DOING?!'. Or in this case, 'OMG, WTF are *WE* doing?!'.
* Been drunk non-stop these whole 7 years, has he?
Your so-called husband is scum. He walked with too much ease over that massive taboo line and felt no shock to the system courtesy of his internal moral compass and conscience. And so is your sister. In fact, she's worse because she's blood, and that means she's supposed to be one of your GUARANTEED lifelong allies and protectors, one of the few people in this world that you CAN rely on no matter what, from birth all the way til death!
Clearly this woman is devoid even of a sense of the SACROSANCT, never mind mere taboo!
Although, look at who it was who (despite it had to be tricked out of them under duress) confessed to you? It was him. NOT HER. Would SHE have confessed had you called her bluff like that? I'm thinking not. Because despite she was closer and more obliged to you, not once during any of those interrogative conversations did she crack. Too many opportunities to do so under pressure of guilty conscience. Didn't.
She preyed on him when he was slightly vulnerable (not getting sex or as much attention) - i.e. all it takes to MAKE such a spoiled baby vulnerable! - and he preyed on her right back. What was HER vulnerability at the time, what's HER pathetic excuse?
There AREN'T any excuses. Because of that bucketful of ice-cold water in the face. Someone would have to be in a REALLY bad way, mentally, not to feel that - the first time, the second, the third....! Either that or CHRONICALLY so over years and years. So the question is merely: were they just temporarily scum or have they always been (whether secretly or not)?
How much do you have to resent and hate and wish to stick it to your own sister to that incredible degree in order to flirt or flirt back with then actually have sexual intercourse (again and again over 7 whole years!) your own sister's husband and own, tiny nephew's father and source of security?!
To do that - either of them - you have to not give one little sh*t about the person you're doing this massive dirty to, as well as either not fear any real repercussions or (his case) not mind possibly losing all it secretly is that your secretiveness is trying to protect (- your routines and material wealth). Even when you know the victim KNOWS.
"how does saying sorry take 9 messages!?"
IT DOESN'T. It takes just one:  'I'm sorry, but this has to stop RIGHT NOW because it's completely and utterly WRONG. For the sake of my marriage and your nephew's chidhood welfare, lease don't ever communicate with me outside of family get-togethers again'.  Response: 'But, but, but...'.  Response: *silence*.
Dump the duds. IF those duds wish to ever find themselves welcomed into your life once more, they can damn well start PROVING they do and are fit for the job. It is not up to you to forgive them this evil act, only to accept that they are not in any way people who enhance your life and, with your peace of mind being crucial to that of your children's sense of overall welfare, you need only GOOD people around you or those that are prepared to keep their nasty sides under proper damn control.
And you know all of this is the only way to now think and react, which is WHY you've said this: "i feel i don't want to be close and feel angry."
Exile them both and then SEE what they do in response... whether that's trying desperately with all their might to get you to speak to and forgive them (and in his case, take you back) or whether now that the cat's full out of the bag they link hands and skip off together into the (dark side) sunset. *Actions speak louder than words", or this case - "than denials and claims*.
Just so's we're clear:
"Madam, I'm sorry to say you sound like a doormat. Little wonder even people who never should do so walk all over you."
I realise that could have sounded disparaging, which is not my intention. You're obviously a very sweet and generous-minded woman. But that doesn't mean everyone ELSE in this world is. Types like her and him who could even go and COMMIT this sort of unconscionable act, let alone feel shocked at its mere thought or concept, are types who are nowhere *near* sweet and generous in nature. They're only like that whenever they're after something. As such, they see such sweetness of nature as some sort of a sign of weakness and desperation, and treat you accordingly like a victim to their predator, someone who'll let them get away with murder.
You're either going to have to grow a tougher nature or PRETEND you have and act your socks off...just act tough BY ROTE. That kind of punishment is all people like them understand.
Hi thankyou very much for your comments.
Do you believe that people can change? Also that they can make continual mistakes then once caught out it does make them realise the full extent of there actions and can completely regret it. My actual dilemma is do I continue to stay or do I go!? i have 3 children ,a lovely home, he supports us financially and is doing his upmost to make things up to me, I know for a fact that there has been no contact since June. I'm currently carrying on as normal with both my husband and sister. Can I please make it clear that they have only slept together once and we were not married at the time. So other than messages and videos there has been no sexual contact of any sort for the last 7 years. It happened once and once only just after our son was born. Although this does not say that it wouldn't of continued if I hadn't of found out nor that they would not of had sex again. Although I feel totally betrayed I feel that I can't call my husband scum as he is better than that. It's very hard to come across correctly in these sort of messages. They slept together 7 years ago and since then we have got married and had two children. If this had of happened since married then I feel it would be a different story, am I right feeling that way?
I'm having a hard time following your time line. This happened 7 years ago? Before you were married?
And then again, just 6 months ago it started up again - (the naked pictures)THAT YOU KNOW OF?
Your sister is a real sweetie, isn't she? You don't say one thing about her. Do you not think she's in any way a willing partner to all this?
Have you two ever gone to counseling?
I believe that people can change but that it's wholly and exclusively dependent on  whether they have the incentive and intelligence to learn from their mistakes,  whether they even deem their acts mistakes in the first place, and  whether life's circumstances allow them that change or stand immovably in their way (and can't be got around or under or over or exploded into smithereens). So some people can change, some can't/don't want to (- same thing, different honesty level). The point of this exercise, now, is to test these two out on that score.
If, however, people who commit a crime get found out yet aren't persuaded to change their ways and not REPEAT it, through the simple fact of their act having put them in a position of standing to lose whatever they don't wish to (or daren't) lose - the answer is simple: patently, they don't fear and don't dislike the idea of losing that thing(s).
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME."
Put yourself in his position. What mental state or life attitude would you have had to have been possessed by even to have KISSED another man, let alone have full sexual intercourse with him - even once as a fact (albeit quite possibly twice, three times, MULTIPLE times)? What type of person would you have to be to not be brought up sharp and consumed with contrition and fear of loss by having evidence of your crime stumbled upon (FB) by your spouse of all people? What would it mean if, despite that, STILL you continued your affair? ...And there's your answer as to how 'forgiveable' it is and why I said SCUM.
YOU may not think he's scum but that doesn't mean he isn't behaving like he's scum, at least romantically (i.e. the entire bedrock of your relationship!). And when someone insists on continuing to behave like scum - and repetition no matter how (supposedly) far past the original event still counts as repetition - then they get described simply *as* scum. That's how it works.
Forgiveness is not something you bestow as if you're the Queen or King of Sheba. The person has to first ASK for it and SHOW that request to be genuine. If not, it's not forgiveness, just acceptance (that not all people can or want to be morally upstanding). Not a lot of people in the lay grasp that actually very simple distinction.
He nearly got found out. Maybe not the FULL extent, but enough. Were it you or I, that revelatory exposure would (I'm presuming where you're concerned) shocked us to the very core! WOULDN'T IT? We'd have thought, 'Sh*t-sh*t-SH*T, what was I THINKING! What have I DONE - to us and to her?! I could lose my precious spouse, my normal parental life, my home, my wealth, my assets, my family and social-life, ...my whole life as I know it!'
Anyone who experiences such a right royal scare (or worse, doesn't) yet proceeds FURTHER or CONTINUES the secretly more full extent is either suicidal or downright THICK...or just doesn't care about the consequences nearly enough. Or-or-OR.. doesn't believe the consequences will ever happen!
But here's the rub: if you know that by pressing a red button atop a box that's clearly marked 'Do not press this button or you'll get blown to smithereens' yet you still dare press it, yet the bomb inside *doesn't* explode (the box just emits a pop), you do NOT conclude that it won't and can't (particularly as you can't get access into the box to examine it). You conclude that you were simply incredibly bloody lucky and that NEXT time you more than likely WON'T be! Hence you are not so stupid as to try it again...NOT EVEN *TICKLE* IT. Berbom! (or in this case, kerboom).
Let's assume the guy is just thick as pig-sh*t... "he supports us financially and is doing his upmost to make things up to me"
He's supposed to support you financially, he's your husband. So let's not start treating that as some sort of oh-so-gracious favour, shall we? Or do you call your having borne his children "a magnanimous favour"? You don't, do you...just a product of (supposed) mutual love. So it's immaterial. So QUESTION: what precisely is he doing as has you calling it 'utmost' - list the ways, please, from miniscule to major?
And - QUESTION: what PROOF do you have of his not having seen her (nor spoken to her?) since June as makes this allege-able as a fact?
"Can I please make it clear that they have only slept together once and we were not married at the time."
(Again, you only have HIS OR HER word that they only slept together once. That's mere Hearsay, not fact. And, provably now, his word isn't exactly worth much, is it.)
Not married? Oh, what - you happened to lack the piddly piece of paper to say so? You cannot get more married than producing a child with each other, so let's strike that nonsense from the evidence table as well, yes? Not only WERE you to all intents and purposes married, but you'd just recently given birth to his first child as just COMPOUNDS that fact! Or are you trying to suggest you'd start daily 9-5, Mon-Fri executing secretarial services for some businessman in return for wages, but then deny you were his secretary just because you didn't have a letter saying so in so many words? "Is" is as *does*. You *did*. Ergo you *are*. For the purposes of this argument at the very least - you were married. Fact.
"If this had of happened since married then I feel it would be a different story"
It - things associated with an affair - these ***RECENT*** pictures of them ***masturbating*** - *has* happened since you were married. Plus, it's one thing to share explicit acts with a stranger, but to do it with the person with whom you were already more or less caught red-handed? And SINCE the day you were caught? Come off it, be real.
QUESTION: What utmost has your sister been doing? Is he still getting to sit in the same room with her? Or is she doing the decent thing and staying away from gatherings, at least for the foreseeable time being?
Be very clear about this: you do not get to be the one who suffers any punishment called loss or inconvenience, here, because you're not the one who's committed the crime and deserves to be punished. I don't care WHAT mistakes you yourself might have made as got your relationship into difficulty. There is no excuse on the planet to justify meting out the worst form of interpersonal-level betrayal in the context of a marriage than to cheat on your partner/spouse AND not immediate cease and confess. It's called, 'I'm not happy in our relationship so can we talk or go to counselling, please?' or 'I'm really not happy, I haven't been for too long now, so I want a divorce'.
You need to cease making excuses for the pair of them because that grossly over-accommodative attitude is precisely what got you INTO this victim position.
Looking forward to your answers to my questions.
Hi, I'm feeling a little lost. As much as I appreciate your replies I have for to be honest and say I'm getting a little confused whilst reading them. They are a little bit too much for my Brain to digest so they aren't making much sense to me
I imagine after such a massive double betrayal as this, you're still shocked and overwrought and unable to think straight, yes? That's perfectly normal. Try reading them over, see if that helps. If not, one of the other regular advisers on here might be more on your wavelength and willing to step in.
I didn't think the actual questions were that difficult to understand, were they? I thought they were quiet straightforward. But, here, I'll separate them for you to make it easier:
QUESTION: what precisely is he doing [to make up for his crime] as has you calling it 'utmost' - list the ways, please, from miniscule to major?
QUESTION: what PROOF do you have of his not having seen her (nor spoken to her?) since June as makes this allege-able as a fact?
QUESTION: What utmost has your sister been doing? Is he still getting to sit in the same room with her? Or is she doing the decent thing and staying away from gatherings, at least for the foreseeable time being?