Divorce and remarriage
This may be an odd one for you. Recently my husband and I have been through an emotional roller-coaster because for 14 years I lied to him about my promiscuity before and just after we met.
So, although we still love each other very much and want to work things out he still feels because I wasn't totally honest with him from the start, he has been tricked into marriage and children.
Now he is saying he would like us to divorce and remarry each other so that we can have a fresh start.
Any thoughts or advice?
Divorce and then remarry? All that effort? For what? Because his mind can't make an internal adjustment without all the 'furniture' moving on the outside first? And are we to suppose that this promiscuity had affected you in some way that ever since has stopped you being a good lover, wife and mother? What is he - FIVE? I've never heard anything so damn ridiculous! Tell him to grow up!
Define 'promiscuity before and just after we met' as clearly has this man's hyper-sensitive ego completely mutineering his (I hope?) usual common sense.
And had you just had another row right before you came on here to post?
Is that not a really expensive way of renewing your vows?
(Doesn't he just, mm-hmm-Ah-say-MM-HMMMM!)
In truth. we went on our first date 15 years ago and I liked him a lot but I went back to my ex and we slept together again for the second time and yes when he finished the next day or so he finished me again for the second time in a row. I was still seeing David and we just hit it off, he had a large heart and loved to be with me but He did not want to rush things because he said he wanted things to be right. he is very old fashion like that. Anyway, I had a party at my mothers when she was on holiday and David and his brother, sister and Davids friend, David did not feel great but come to see me but had to go to bed because he felt so bad, so I led him to my room and put him in bed. I wend down stairs and carried on drinking with everyone. to cut a long story short I slept with his brother and the floor of the living room, we did not use protection i just pushed him off before we got going because i felt bad.
The next day I never told him that we had sex. I just said that we had a drunken kiss that meant nothing.
David and I sorted things out and we went out on a night out and i run into an ex and a few days latter I ended up sleeping with him. David and I was just starting out and was not together in a sexual way at that point because he wanted things to be right and get to know each-other first properly.
anyway. I never told him about nio the other encounters eg kissing others his school mate.
the time came when we made love, it was amazing and i knew i loved him so much. we started dating and all was going well until he has suspicions about what I had done. his friends and family got involved and advised he say away. I went on holiday for a week or so and we called each-other and had a chat, he said that he could not trust me because i lied and his ex had found out about the way i treated him so he was going back to her, after-all he was with her for 6 years and met when they were both young.
I was hurt that he had finished with me and met a bloke and we slept together. I got home and David and I started to speak again. I knew he loved me and I loved him. we became friends but kept have sexual encounters. Things were so right between us. I started to sleep with quite a few lads at uni on the quite but seeing David as and when he was free. I had to ask David to join me for an STI check because I have slept with most of my partners without a condom. I never told David the reason. I just said it was so we both know we are clean. He said no because he had only slept with a few people and he knows his history and they were all long term 2/3/6 years.
the problem I am having is I have had 14 one nigh stands and 5 very short relationships. before we got engaged David and I had got off with someone else at my friends wedding. A few weeks latter David went camping with his friends and i went out with work and ended up shearing a taxi and inviting him in. after ten or so mins we started to kiss on the sofa but then David called to say goodnight and he was missing me. I felt so bad.
we got married and had a child, moved into a new house and things were great until my ex called and asked to meet me again. I called David and he said " do what is right " So I argued that we were friends, I have not spoken to him for years like. I know I would not want david to see his ex but He flatters me and I wanted to meet him. anyway the text got very sexual and I thought I better not go and did not go in the end.
I never told David about any of my past cheating, his brother the guys before and when we got engaged and now he has found out about the lot, well 90% of it anyway.
He feels like I have trapped him because he asked me about his suspicions over the years. In truth I have, I wanted to be married to him and have his children. I know he will forgive just 15 years of lies. All my family and friend hate him because I told them he was the bad one.
The question is do i diverse this man. I just keep hurting him, I know I love him and he is my world. he has nearly left so many time because of the things I have done.
It's fine if when a man says let's not rush, he MEANS not rush rather than, let's take this slow. If you think about it, both show arrogance and a need to control what isn't up for controlling because falling in love is like sneezing in that it has its own, natural speed thus should neither be speeded up nor kept slow. If a man would drive considerably slower than the road speed limits and other drivers, you'd conclude he was inept and/or scared to go at the normal speed thus probably shouldn't be on the road in the first place. You can call fear traditionalism or anything else more flattering-sounding but at the end of the day it's still inordinate fear. So IMO that was a Red Flag right there.
And so was sleeping with his brother of all people... on the (what-ah?!) living-room floor. Etcetera. What was that - revenge-style provocation?... for the fact he was already rejecting you when you two hadn't even got properly going yet?
"the time came when we made love, it was amazing and i knew i loved him so much."
Yes. And that was the whole point and why he shouldn't have held back on you, because lust, the physical side of a relationship, is what emotional attachment gets built upon.
So, yes, you two formed your relationship initially upon a mutual foundation containing LIES. He shouldn't have asked you to be his girlfriend if he wasn't ready to put his trust in someone and you should have dumped the [Right Person, Right Place] Wrong Time "dud" and moved onto the next fella. That was all you had the moral right to do, not mess around with other people.
Still, you did both do what you did and so I'm not surprised that at this point parts of the foundation are crumbling.
However, strictly speaking, you did not cheat on David. He enforced the unilateral decision on you not to consummate your relationship when appropriate to. Cheating means you're doing something with someone else that you're also doing with your partner and which thereby should be contained to your partner exclusively. You *weren't*. So David has to take responsibility for that at the same time that you have to take responsibility for not having just moved onto another romantic prospect due to Wrong Timing.
You're both to blame up to that point.
HOWEVER, thereafter is definitely David's fault because despite the friend and family warnings, and despite the interim break, he choose to forgive you and proceed. (What you did in that interim you had full right to do because - albeit, it transpired, only temporarily - he'd ended the relationship beforehand, meaning you were at that point single. As were you when you and David were just FWBs. So strike those two parts from the 'enquiry'.)
Then David showed he wasn't prepared to be cooperative (STD check) like a team-mate should, so again you reacted by treating him as if not your boyfriend by sleeping with your work colleague. (You're not very assertive in word or action, are you - all this vengeance under-the-table nonsense.)
Here's the rub: David was right from the off communicating that he didn't want to trust you, that he did not see himself as your team-mate, yet clearly wanted the PERKS same as if he had done that work part. You were (foolishly) responding to those ongoing 'messages' with "In that case, take that!" actings-out.
Then you got married and assume you were now team-mates and yet  you showed him, no you were not, by even wanting to meet the ex and  he confirmed your suspicion by saying, basically, 'Go ahead, what do I care'. And yet you didn't. So it was just a threat whereas his action wasn't (because unlike you, he didn't un-do it).
THAT is the bit that David should be focussing on and which puts HIM fairly and squarely in the wrong in terms of the last person to have committed an act unbefitting of a team-mate as contradicts the marital vow.
You trapped each other, actually. Or, more specifically, he trapped himself and you trapped yourself, using each others as tools on that score. *Only, he started it. And he then he committed the most recent crime* - despite your giant actions of having had his children and *not* having gone to meet the ex when the opportunity presented itself having proved you were by now committed. He can't now start dragging up past, already equalised crimes to counter his sense of culpability.
Why does he feel trapped? That, to me, suggests he'd like to be able to leave scott-free but feels unable.
I hate to tell you this but I strongly suspect he's met someone else with whome he's either already been having an affair or wants to, and is scraping the past-history barrel in order to feel justified, simultaneously attempting to demonize you and the marriage in order to convince himself you deserve to be cheated on (ergo he's no monster but the victim, doing the only thing he can to feel better (puke!)).
Tell him he's either IN (in accordance with the fact he made children and a life with you and what that's supposed to say) or he's out (i.e. out of the house as well). "WHICH?!". And he has to decide right here, right now, today! If he's met someone whom CLEARLY (as per usual) he's not nearly sure enough about then the best thing you can do is push him right into her arms so that he can better FEEL how unsure about her he is and thereby know what side his bread was buttered on in the first place (you).
Don't be surprised, however, if once you're alone in the house you feel you don't WANT him back. He was never really 'there' to begin with in any case, was he, let's be honest.
In summary, you're a PAIR of tw*ts but he's the bigger one and - more to the point - THE CURRENT ONE (whereas you're an ex-tw*t).
Does that help put it all into rightful perspective?
I hear what you are saying. out of everyone I have ever known he has been the kindest man I have ever know. He helped me progress in life and work. I lie about most things to my best friends and workmates. I have just started counseling because work said I should and David agreed. I'm a great wife and he is a fab husband he has always been there for me. David is very moralistic and I know 100% he would never cheat. I have access to his phones, emails and he never goes out unless its the usual stuff but is always back at the same time.
He is very house proud and we like having family weekends together. I don't think David would leave. My problem is not David its me and the way I have treated him. My family have very little to do with me because of all the things I have said and made out he had done plus I upset them in general . I think if you met him you would understand. I just did not understand why when we started dating I just kept up sleeping around (I mean His brother of all People) truth is none of them never did anything for me. I just lay there and leave half hour after they finished, just ashamed,thinking why, will this never stop. I know David waited but that was because I was still interested in my ex and he had just broken up from a very long relationship and she wanted him back, (I knew why) anyway, I wanted him so badly I think I just got in the habit of seeking affection from men and I knew it was only to be one night. I won him back and in truth He is the best thing ever I love in and trust him 100000 % because over 15 years of knowing him he has never given me reason not to. I have now been engaged and married for 6 years and we have one child. I want another with him but he wants to wait till my counseling is finished I am going off my own back and through work. im hoping that he trusts me again because it is me who has broken his heart. as I said, if you met him and have seen how I have developed me. Im confident and I have changed but The lying stems from a young age. thanks you for your response
"avid is very moralistic and I know 100% he would never cheat."
Well, in that case, if you insist he's still that moralistic (and it works both ways, not just towards him) then what he must be doing is either [a] trying to extricate himself by whatever degree from the (his perception) over-closeness by pushing you away a little OR [b] force you back into greater closeness with attention-seeking.
He should be attending counselling with you. Your marriage and all that goes on in it is a co-creation. So yet again we have what appears to be this Gestalt attitude taken too far, that goes, 'you do your thing, I do mine, I'm not responsible for how you feel and vice versa'. OH, YES, HE IS. I repeat: TEAM-MATES!! - "Tu problemo es mi problemo" (and vice versa).
Don't agree you're exclusively to blame, WON'T EVER agree you're exclusively to blame in an overall, permanent, catch-all sense - BECAUSE IT'S NOT EVEN POSSIBLE WHEN A RELATIONSHIP IS 50/50 (or thereabouts) OF EVERYTHING - but... see what your counsellor thinks about it all.
By the way, forgot to ask:
"I never told David about any of my past cheating, his brother the guys before and when we got engaged and now he has found out about the lot, well 90% of it anyway. "
How/from whom did he find out? And why did doing so take him so many years?
I am going to counseling and David agreed to join me but they said I need to sort out the reason I do the things I do. he does support me and he will go, he always does what he says. he found out because i keep him away from my friends because of all the things I have done. anyway, one night we met my friends and i left to get a drink and he got verbally attacked by them. He said that was all untrue and told them his side. after half hour my friends found out i had told them a pack of lies. my second best friend Had suspicions i was lying to her, so she went to see David in person, they talked for a number of hours and each said what they knew. it goes without saying he found out what i had been saying and yes it was untrue. yet again. Anyway they all like him now and i have understood my mistakes.
You see most bloke are after one thing and he is not like that, but we do make love every day sometimes twice, three-times. Once he has committed he is 100% trustworthy. we do everything together, he does house work, washing, brings me cups of tea in bed does more than he should an d put my friend husbands to some with what he achieves, does not drink allot and hates football.
Okay, I see now. But it still doesn't alter the fact that most recent, meatier actions, namely you having finally knuckled down as a wife and *remained* knuckled down puts paid to all that past crap. However, by the same token, I guess I can appreciate that he'd need to have his ego reaction to what he'd just newly found out thus, to him, is quite fresh.
Saying that, I still maintain that he has to take his responsibilities for said iffy era. The fact is, he was NOT squeaky clean back then because he was not giving you the *confidence* needed to commit your heart and mind. Men do the wooing at that early stage of the proceedings, not women - *regardless* of modern thinking. Modern ideas don't trump still-primitive wiring and base programming. Frankly, reading all of that up there, your David did a bad job. Bad because he was deliberately holding back for over-self-protection reasons. And had he been *my* boyfriend back then, I wouldn't even have got to the stage of acting-out like you did because I'd have dumped him well before.
*I* had an opportunity to get back with my ex not long after my husband and I met, as well. In fact, multiple! But I didn't consider it for a second. Why? Because duringtime, my then husband-to-be was all over me like a rash thus showing my ex up at that same past point of the chase and woo periods, as having been PANTS. That simple! So I still maintain that you were BOTH to blame, not just you, because if David had been all over *you* like a rash, you wouldn't have done the things you subsequently did (which were classic insecurity behaviours)...and I'd like to see you argue with that pure logical. But if you do, we'll have to agree to disagree. ;-p
Anyway, I doubt he'll ACTUALLY divorce and re-marry you. He's probably just, understandably for this juncture, sounding off and trying to ego-equalise. I therefore suggest you just agree...'Yes, dear, no, dear, whatever you say, whatever you think best, dear'.
Hi, thanks, I unsrestand what you are saying and agree. Thank you for your time.