Completely at a loss...Lose lose situation.
I am at desperation door. This is a long story so I will try and cut back where possible. I am engaged to be married in August of this year, I have been with this guy since July 2013 and from the day I met him, had the feeling he was the one. It's been a rocky road in places but in the main, when me and him are left alone, we are completely happy. The only problem we have between us (that does not cause hostility in our relationship) is money. I'm 25 and still struggle with over bearing, highly opinionated and dictating parents. They are the same with my older siblings aged 32 and 33. My parents marriage is awful, my father is abusive, controlling, intimidating and aggressive. He has most Definately got worse with age. Empathy and understanding must have been on short supply when he was in the Que. I have had several relationships and would say I have been in love twice. I was in a horrific, violent and abusive relationship (worse than my parents) that I came out of realising I never loved the guy from day one. I am now with my partner, who yes has massive flaws, mainly down to his past, he made bad decisions but has changed dramatically. He is very active on the work front and is excited by the prospect of finally finding someone to settle down with and have a family. Here's the problem, my parents are extremely judgemental and allow NO room for mistakes or a past even. Their first extremely bad veiw of him was the fact that he's got tattoos. They investigated his social media sites and made their assumptions of him based on what they were reading, general comments etc. They made my life complete hell, dictating to me about him being jelous and possessive, which he isn't. No more than he should be. I had an on going battle trying to convince them that he was different to how he imagined. FOOLISHLY I searched for comfort in my partner from all the upset they caused me in their judgements of him, that he was a tramp, that he would never be any good, the list goes on...this in turn got his back up and made him resentful to my family. Eventually after a few messages backwards and forwards from my partner to my parents and vice versa we managed to get to a point where everyone was willing to meet and put this all behind. Keeping in mind my fathers attitude, I haves aged to go ahead and book the church, get my dress and book the wedding venue (I started doing this even before they gave their blessing) then my parents joined in with the plans. The day arrived when everyone was going to meet, my whole family in tow. MAJOR problem, me and my partner have the worst argument we've had since the begininng of the relationship and refused to go to the meeting. Well this has just caused the biggest back lash. It is like world war 3 and I am back to square one. My parents are now telling me this is a representation of how my life will be and my mother even said its not my choice to marry him any more and my partner feels I am letting my parents come between us. Both sides are making my life impossible. My partner very much takes a back seat and tells me I need to do whatever I want to make me happy. If the truth is known, although I feel really let down that he wouldn't come for the meet, these things do happen and every couple has their arguments but the damage it has caused with my family is irreparable. Some one help
Oh dear, you are in a power struggle, aren't you?
So - go into battle or retreat.
If it were me, I'd retreat - from the entire bunch. Move away - far away - from overbearing crtical parents AND move away from overbearing, critical BF (You ARE marrying your parents, can you see that?)
Take some time to get yourself straight (therapy?) and in an affirming environment - by yourself, as a woman.
Then - and only then, will you be able to make a decision on life partners.
"The day arrived when everyone was going to meet, my whole family in tow. MAJOR problem, me and my partner have the worst argument we've had since the begininng of the relationship and refused to go to the meeting. "
Yeah, well, I'm not surprised. He'd have been over-stressed enough in the run-up, but at least felt he had ONE ally in his midst - you. But then stress did its thang, you ended up taking it out on each other, momentarily becoming 'enemies', so bang went his one ally... Would YOU have wanted to face the already prejudiced judging panel of that size under that circumstance? Can't say I would. 'Ugh, uck off', I'd have said.
Me, I didn't get the impression your fiance is overbearing and critical. After all, it sounds as if it was his initiative and effort alone that got the semi peace talks going in the first place. I think an overbearing, critical type would have just dug his heels in, thought 'sod them' through LIKING that rift, and worked over-concertedly on you instead. Abusers isolate.
Listen, this is how it's supposed to go (and notta lotta people know/admit this):
You start out living and being raised in your formative pack (comprising parents and siblings). Your parents are there to guide you towards independence both mentally and practically, to the point where you fly that nest and go on to make your own choices and decisions and deal with their consequences. You then complete that journey to full independence - true adulthood (or as much as mere humans are capable prior to the age of 89) - signified by meeting your ideal mate and setting up a NEW, REPLACEMENT pack.
Just in case you didn't see that - REPLACEMENT (pack).
From then on, despite you still use the old, familiar labels of Mum and Dad, these now convert to just NOUNS, not verbs. YOU are your own parent now in terms of the final finishes and flourishes. Including back-up parent to your partner and vice versa whenever you or he are under par for whatever reasons (stress, work overload, illness, simply under the weather, etc.). "Mum" and "Dad" become your older, very good friends, including doing what friend do - sometimes advise, when invited to.
STUFF what your original pack thinks. If you're as sure as you feel you could ever be at this pre-marital juncture that he's the right bloke for you, then so be it and good for you! Your mistake, your consequences -v- Your correct choice, your rewards. As your rightly say, they'd concreted him into a stereotypical pigeonhole even before damn well MEETING him! So their opinion counts as WHAT NOW?
You can both bust a gut trying to make them come round and accept him (like that makes any difference) or you can allow your show of conviction PLUS time telling do it for you. After all, if they think he's x and y and will treat you accordingly yet in 2, 3, 4 years from now he's failed to behave like x and y, then, your case gets rested and you can look forward to a number of eggy faces lining up to grovellingly apologise, can't you.
Get on with your life plans and let your parents make their OWN mistakes if mistakes are what they're making. You can't control their perceptions, attitudes, opinions and decisions any more than they can yours.
However, if you find you're WORRIED about for the time being, or (depending on how stupidly stubborn they are) whatever lengthier indeterminate period, replacing your old pack with your new present-to-future pack co-founder (fiance), then actions suggest it's YOU who isn't sure about him, not them. Capiche?
They'll come round. Because they have to. You don't, you're part of the NEW regime. The future. Those two have had their lives. Also, if all they'd have left was your two remaining 'yes mam and dad, no mam and dad, whatever you say mam and dad' siblings, that might well prove insufficient when it comes them trying to avoid having to sit across a table from one another, no props, with something-anything other than themselves and the state of their own marriage to face. (Let me hear you say, 'MM-HMMMM, OH, YES, INDEEDIE, THERE IT *IS*, THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T LIKE HIM!!'.)
Cuh... Thirty-two and thirty-three and still dancing to your parents' tune? Ye gods, someone put them back in their highchairs where they belong!
Break that rotten family legacy that looks like it's already spreading down your siblings lines. It just takes one.
Thank you so much for your replies. It really does help to have an outsiders perspective. I do feel like am completely in the middle. I have no doubts about my partner and mines relationship but the general worries that I am confident that every couple have (work,money,home,food) etc are what are really making me panic because I Beleive it has been emphasised so much by my parents, it is everything that I am focusing on. My dad in particular Is a money chaser, always talking about work, instigating work and is very much about image, always has been. I think he is maybe embarrassed at the fact that my fiancé hasn't provided these things for me. Quite honestly, I am 25, the youngest of 3. I have been spoilt with jewellery and lifestyle (I have also worked extremely hard within the family business) but none of those riches make up for the every day miserable, intense atmosphere of home life. Like I say, i do worry about the necessaties of married life but feel this is normal. We have the emotional support of my fiances family, however I know there will be no one in my family happy for me if I go ahead with marrying my fiancé and moving out of home
Sounds like you have learned that money can't buy happiness. You have actually lived that.
But it's also miserable to be stressed out because of money.
Now the issue is whether you and your BF have the capability of having a nice balance of money and happiness in your marriage. It sounds like you bring some earning power (family business) What about him?
Does he own a home? Have a car? credit cards? college degree or in a career? Could you quit your job if you should want to stay home and be a full time mom?
I hope you have taken a realistic look at what your life will be in 5, 10, 20 years with him - and you are comfortable with what you see.
Well throughout the roller coster of emotions, in the days when there was a bit of amicability, the idea was for my partner to stop his job as a landscape gardener/builder and me and him start our own branch of business off of my current family business. It was ideal, self employed, the working tools were there and both of us were enthusiastic about the challenge. Now that everything has gone the way it has, we have discussed me getting a job nearer to him, him carrying on doing his work and we save to improve. I am from a family of old fashioned values which means no cohabiting, I want to be married before taking the leap of a home together etc. I completely understand my family's concerns, however, they have never agreed with any previous boyfriends, they have never liked any of my friends and have a habit of dictating to me rather than advising and having a sympathy or understanding...still feel lost.
You're not 'in the middle' because they're your parents, not his; you're the only one with access to them; and they're the antagonists. Saying that, however, they're clearly not receptive to sorting anything out, instead dead intent on painting him black, so, that's that regardless.
Now knowing you're the youngest - their final kid - it seems that in with them needing distractions from each other/their marriage as aforementioned, there's also a bit of them not wanting their baby to fly the nest, which leads to, this guy is the catalyst so let's do our level best to put her off marrying him and flying off.
Question: do you and he have plans to relocate once married or any time thereafter that your parents are or could have become aware of?
I agree with Susie that you probably should consider his provider or co-provider capabilities into the future as well as today because, indeed, at some point you may not want or be capable of being a working mother. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad move to cut even the business as well as personal ties if this, too, is naturally adding to your parents' sense of ownership over you. So can you not start your business independently of theirs?
Bravo you for doing things the- not 'old fashioned' - NATURAL way. One can SAY getting a pre-sample is sensible but it's actually not because the dynamic between co-habitants is entirely different to that of a 'locked-in' couple already starting their life journey together.
Given your last paragraph, it's clear, now, that your parents are just plain despots which makes them chocolate teapots as far as you're concerned in terms of what your own existential viewpoints and needs are. If the nest isn't enhancing your individuality, wellbeing and happiness and in fact is achieving the opposite, then, even *without* a romantic situation as lends moral support, flying the mother ship-whoops, I mean nest (
) sound like an altogether sensible move. Plus, whilst you're IN a situation you can't tell how bad it it. It takes extricating yourself and becoming recalibrated for it to really hit you as will have you quite possibly kicking yourself for not having done it sooner. Still.. better late than never.
I can't thank all of you enough for your veiws and opinions. I have to say that even without actually living within my environment, you've got a pretty good sense of what I am feeling. With regards to my partner on the work front, as it stands, he probably wouldn't be able to support me if we were to start a family now, however, this has never ever been our intention. Our intention is to get married first. Me relocating to his area 1) it is a much nicer, more desirable place to be 2) To distance myself from anybody outside of our relationship so that there are no external strains/opinions/veiws on what we are doing. The relocation is more my idea than my partners. We then had planned to start our own business, I am more of the business headed person, I have to thank my family for that, I have always been taught to be ambitious and have never been allowed to be lazy but this was something I wanted to involve my partner in and he was in agreement that due to the success I was able to Acheive before, I could show him and we build our own business. It is possible for me to do this away from the existing family link. Every step of the way my partner and I have been in agreement and the work load has never been tilted either way. We also both decided that it is only when we feel in a financially comfortable situation, reaching our realistic home/car and business targets would we consider children but we are also both set on a family once the above has been achieved. I am not naive in thinking that all of this is going to be Rose tinted glasses, bunny rabbits and rainbows, I am more than aware that it's going to take hard work, dedication and sacrifice. I just feel that my family don't credit me with the ability to be able to Acheive these things and focus on the fact that it's simply because they detest my partner, without ever really giving him a chance. I have spent the last couple of days away from home, no contact with my parents. I have spoken to my partner and what is evident is the over whelming pressure he feels from their hot and cold attitude and mood swings. I really am working on him to just knock on my door with a pleasant demeanour and just saying to my family that he does love me and want to be with me and it is not going away. I need to feel like I have the back up and support there, some one on my 'side' however my partner feels he would find it difficult to be pleasant if my family were to start being rude and abrupt towards him, which is quite likely.
No one should be sent into the lion's den to deal with them or smooth things out.
He has your back - now you must have his. Don't require that your parents approve of him; they have already stated their views.
He doesn't have to please anyone but you. You may have to distance yourself from them in order to find yourself.
(This is all their loss; too bad. There's a chance they will miss a relationship with their grandchildren, too)
Well said, Susie!
BLUEEYESLEL24, you're very welcome, but don't feel you have to exit just yet unless it's what you want. We're perfectly happy for you to keep posting. If not, however, then do keep us updated with quickies as and when, yes? It's useful for lurkers and other members to know how a situation eventually panned out and obviously easier for you to keep your convictions knowing you have an extra source of moral support.
Moral support is exactly what I need. It's been a couple of days now since the big bust up and not turning up to the notorious meeting...I felt great this morning and then had a call from my sister in floods of tears saying that I need to swallow my pride and go home because my mother is struggling to cope (she had a recent mishap with our family pets and has her arm in a sling for 2 weeks) I came home to my grandmother unusually at my house helping my mother. Nothing at all has been mentioned about anything. I got the cold shoulder from my grandmother which is very unusual. I'd kept my partner informed on what was going on and think he is becoming frustrated at me keep going round in the same circle of having enough of the suffocating atmosphere and then coming back as soon as requested. The thing for me is, out of everyone in my family and even extended family, I am the least rebellious, the one most wanting to please and never disappoint. Everybody else that has the 'I'm doing it anyway approach' seems to be where they want to be. It just absolutely kills me to think that someone could say I am selfish and have only considered myself, not to mention that my partner ALWAYS gets the blame whenever I do show that kind of personality. All of a sudden iv changed and I have become a different not very nice person and they automatically put it down to him. I know I have got a statement to make here, I know I need to make a stand. My partner has asked me to go and live with him but for my own sake, I don't think that is acceptable. There isn't a family member I can go to as this throws them into the middle of this ugly battle and because I have been made dependent on the family business, I am unable to finance a move. I need to put my best foot forward, I just don't know how..
WOW - Everyone is getting mad at you when you don't fullfill the role as the family caretaker, yeah? - 'cause they are stuck taking care of your mother. That's why you got the cold shoulder from your grandmother and the panicky/threatening call from sister. ("Get home and help, we can't handle her!")
Somehow you've gotten into this role of the family caretaker. ("the one wanting to please and never disappoint")
Unless you can practice some detachment, you will constantly get pulled back and required to play this "script" where everyone expects you to make sure dad and mom are happy.
Your BF is just one component of the issue. He represents the big threat to your family because he symbolizes your desire to "leave the nest." - which all little birds must do so they can flourish and grow and have their own babies. That's really why they don't like him. Your independence threatens the status quo.
Tell Dad to hire some help or at least take shifts with other siblings when REALLY needed at home. (I'm not going to go into the shape of your parent's marriage and why they rely on their adult-children so much) You are the youngest of the children and they see you as the spinster girl child who should be there for mom and dad, no matter the sacrifice.
PRACTICE detachment statements: "I'm not able to do that today." "I can come Tues. only." "Only if it's an emergency, call me."
Latest update...Big turning point for me! After only a few hours back at home, after an initial normal return home, the subject of my partner and my intentions came up. After trying to respond in a manner that I felt was expressing my need to do what I feel is right and trying to explain that I feel suffocated by the constant over bearing and controlling pressure I feel when trying to do what I want for myself, I was told that It wouldn't be long until my partner sold all my worldly belongings (jewellery given to me) to progress our relationship and then throw me aside once he had everything of any value I had to offer. I sat quite quietly until everything had been said and then just said that I felt I had to do what was right for ME and didn't agree with their presumptions. My mother told me she won't ever be contacting me, she doesn't care if I don't come home and to delete her number from my phone. I removed the jewellery given to me, packed a bag and have moved in with my sister around 60 miles away. I have no intention of going back...I have a very weird sense of relief.
They said he'd do WHAT?!*!?
Oh, yeah. First you, "THEN THE WOOOORLD, NYEAH-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAA..!!!". Well, you can see the obvious connection, can't you. Without you, his evil plan just can't unfold. [rolls eyes]
Sorry, but these people are small-minded, emotionally-blackmailing BULLIES! I mean - ...your mother - MOTHER(? you sure?) said WHAT-AH?!!!
That is almost too bad to believe. I'm gobsmacked. And I'm not bloody surprised you've been taken surprise by a sense of relief, in which case - trust me on this - that feeling is only going to grow as more days and weeks pass.
But, anyway, GOOD FOR YOU!!!
PS: It'll be interesting to see how long they can last before they crack. Don't you crack, you've done nothing wrong. NOTHING!
Well I'm feeling quite emotional today, reality has sunk in that as well as walking out from the family, I have also jacked in my job. The job side of it will become easier in time, i am confident have good credentials to offer a prospective employer. With regards to the final bust up...I went on to explaining to my mother how I have always felt that she has alienated any friends I have had, always disapproving..so much so that I searched for support in an online forum...her response was that it is useless because it is a one sided perspective (my side obviously) and I wouldn't get true responses. So maybe if I try and elaborate on what I understand to be their reason for disliking my partner (as mentioned they have always had derogatory comments about anybody I have associated myself with and I mean EVERYONE) it started with a message from my partner to my brother, stating that he had been talking to me and wanted to ask me out and did he have his permission. My brother agreed but after say yes, went through my partners social media profile. He discovered that he had been in trouble with the police in the past and that he has tattoos. My brother took this information back to my father. This is when this horrible slippery slope formed. Understandbly my parents were concerned, it doesn't sound like the most ideal partner for the youngest daughter but rather than ask me questions or offer a conversation, all I had was slanderous accusations about the type of person that has that kind of background and that once again I'm mixing with trash and that I haven't got any sense. This went on for months. I tried to gently introduce my partner to other family members But my father is very much the head of the family and his opinion and expectations override anybody else's sense of individuality. My partner then got fed up with the upset it was causing me and also the verbal slagging off my family did about his family without even knowing them, so defending himself he text my parents to point out that if they were different I would have been able to discuss my relationship and that my family is also far from perfect. Yes he was brutal but didn't say anything that wasn't the truth. This really was the point of no return for my dad because he had such a low opinion of my partner and yet he had managed to point out the flaws in my fathers empire. What my family don't realise is that people outside of the family aren't obliged to kiss his ar*e. The subject of me continuing my relationship was completely ignored for even more months until they realised that it wasn't going to just fizzle out. My mum usually acting as the mediator started to build a rapport with my partner and truth be known was impressed with his attitude towards certain things, however she very much lives in my fathers shadow and couldn't express what Her true feelings were. We then got to the point of getting everyone to agree to go this meeting that me and my partner didn't end up attending and why I am where I am today. That's the full story
That's okay, that's normal - have a bloody good cry and rant if you want to (it's your party).
Never mind on-paper credentials, you don't even need them! Not only must you be adopted (
) but you have all along been sounding MAJORLY intelligent, wise, articulate, eloquent and, what's more, MATURE this whole thread through, for your age. I'd have put you, the way you talk and intellectualise, at about 38-40 (obviously an old soul on young shoulders) and nearly fell off my chair when you said '25'. AND THAT'S DESPITE HAVING BEEN YOUR WHOLE LIFE HELD BACK! I'd hire you in a heartbeat!
And your mother bloody *would* say that, think about it. And if - assuming you were a sane individual (check!) - they'd been treating this whole situation correctly, meaning you KNEW it was your best interests rather than what it is - their own interests clashing with theirs and them - der dictators, ya vull - not liking it - you wouldn't have come on here, would you. Or why isn't every single 25 year old on the planet in your same set-up on here?
Sometimes that background is the very best background a bloke can have. It's not ABOUT what experiences you plonk yourself in, it's whether you've LEARNED from them. Trouble with Police = lack of respect for authority (or deliberate pretence for the sake of rebellion). Asking brother for your hand when he didn't even have to these days = lack of respect for authority REVERSED AND *THEN SOME*! Berbom! However, he's obviously also learned FLEXIBILITY in terms of not having opinions so rigid they ignore context and circumstance because he's aware that if someone(s) behaves in ways that show they can't possibly have EARNED the expectation for respect from others, then, no, he's not going to reward that CHEATING AT IT with sitting on his hands rather than dispensing a good few home truths in the hope that it might make them stop and think for a change.
You picked a rebel with a cause, and a leader type. Think about that. It's called Like Attracts Like despite that doesn't exclude the fact that one Like can be slightly further up a path than you.
Anyway, you didn't need to spell out the behind-scenes events and attitudes like that, I'd already worked them out for myself. People all have the same beliefs, attitudes and aims. They can express them in this scenario or that scenario. Makes no difference. Same as if you know what a certain cocktail smells like. Whether you smell it in a Library or a nightclub, and can disregard or take out of account other scents like aftershave, you'll still know what it is and what it looks, smells and tastes like under any light imaginable.
Your parents have issues which, by pandering to them, affect the otherwise purity of how their healthier (parallel universe) versions view and respond. Berbom. So this event is going to be SUPERB coffee for them to for once, FINALLY, wake up and smell. And if not, that's THEIR self-hobbling. Not yours. Not any more.
Cry all that past crap out of your system and you'll be home and dry.
How are you feeling today, BLUEEYES?
Hi Soulmate, thank you for your Lovley message of support and encouragement. I am still feeling a little emotional and trying to come to terms with the changes that lie ahead but I have the support of my partner which does help. He's very much about keep your head up and soldier on. I Haven't heard from
My parents, I didn't expect to, I suppose they are trying their hardest to no longer involve themselves in what I now intend to do now. I can't help but find it sad that it has taken such drastic steps and have been receiving emails and phone calls with regards to the wedding that I started to book with my parents involved. My partner and I have decided that the next couple of weeks/months will be spent raising the money for our home and just do our own intimate wedding when we are in the position. The door will be open for my family to attend, whether they do, is their choice.
It gets better. Time is a wonderful healer; cliche but true.
No, you won't hear from them this early on. They're stubborn uggers, definitely not used to being crossed. And they're clearly not as emotionally intelligent as you. In fact, from what I've seen, they're very sloooooooooooooooooooooooooow. BUT... you'll find this out one day soon, I'm sure: no mother, no matter how issue-ridden and confused, can permanently cut ties with her baby like that. Sooner or later she'll crack. And then your dad will follow suit. You just get on with getting on.
I imagine they'll be getting emails or other wedding reminders as well. Pressure, pressure, pressure...
Also, don't forget, they're keep up with the Jones's types, all public veneer is imperative, blah-blah (puke). What? Them?? Be known by other family relatives and friends to have been absent from their very last baby's wedding?! SHOCK, HORROR! Heh-heh...They'd never live it down, think about it.
Worry not, the power is all yours. Which is just as well because it was always supposed to be and remain yours in the first place! That they tried to take it away from you for fear of losing their power to you, got them WHAT NOW? That's right - not only you taking back yours but them giving away theirs to you in the process.
I did mention, emotionally thick, yes? LOL
You literally have no worries. You're just lacking patience and faith in ol Fath-sorry, MOTHER Time.
Well the first working day since the argument and I received a call from my very cheery mother who started the conversation with 'morning sweetie'. I did get a lump in my throat and flashbacks of the things she had said to me but remained very quiet throughout the breif conversation. She said that the ceptisimia that she had got through the animal bite had developed the blood poisoning and had upset her whole system, her hormones and emotions were all over the place. She was very sweet and very caring throughout the phone call and there was ABSOLUTELY no mention of the argument. We ended the phone call with her asking me how I was, to which I replied I am ok. She told me I sounded deflated (!!) well DUH! I thought to myself. She has now transferred some money to my account, which by the way is very needed, however I DO NOT want it. My father and brother are off to Australia on a working trip this weekend and she will be home alone for a month but I can't think of anything worse than being lured home with kindness to open myself up to further interrogation!! My partner is angered at the fact she has called like everything is normal and that there was no issues addressed after the bust up, he finds it very weird how she can just carry on like nothing has happened.
AAAAAAAL-RIGHDY, THEN! Mum is not the problem. Dad is. Your mum has made the common mistake of believing a relationship has to comprise leader + follower and nothing in between, ever, WHEREAS it's about TWO bosses, each who bring their own skills to the partnership - PARTNERSHIP - meaning you lead or follow as and when any situation and circumstance dictates/demands (like two kids on a seesaw taking turns to be higher or lower, be that in consecutive or simply overall fashion). EMOTIONAL issues are (assuming the woman's an adult) definitely the woman's area, only she's been leaving that to him as well as all the rest. Tut-tut. And look what one of the results of that has just been. Ain't rocket science, is it. I wonder if this is her taking that partnership responsibility finally OR whether she rang you in secret. It'd be interesting to find out, wouldn't it. Not that it's even possible to keep it secret (read on...).
"Upset my whole system including my hormones and emotions"
"She told me I sounded deflated (!!) well DUH! I thought to myself."
ROFL! But I don't think her point was identifying a symptom, I think it was her just trying to say she does care about how you're feeling.
"She has now transferred some money to my account, which by the way is very needed, however I DO NOT want it."
NO. TAKE IT. It's an olive branch. She did not attach any condition onto it, like, but you have to come home. If she wanted you home, why give you the very means to remain AWAY from home? Sorry, the 'duh' is yours on this one.
And who said mountain has to go to Mohammed anyway? Invite her to yours!
As for your partner: he's unleashing his anger because only now is it clear he's SAFE to and he's been bottling it up (as have you). Don't take any notice about that bit, it's just knee-jerk talking. Plus, she didn't act like everything is normal, did she. She empathised, and apologised - in meaty money transfer action if not in wordage that was as wholly clear-cut as you'd like. "Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey" is the saying. Give her time, stop being so impatient. This is a PROCESS, not a one-hit remedy.
For starters, do you REALLY think your father isn't going to stumble over the fact of this money transfer? Don't be daft. He'll also sense the fact she's a lot calmer about you all of a sudden. He'll have to wonder why. He's not completely stupid, he's just emotionally very confused and fearful and feeling out of control thus doing what most blokes do with that: becoming a Nazi control freak.
Invite her over to your place - without partner present the first time or for the first few hours - and you'll find THEN is when she'll address the actual issues, following which you can either invite her again or call partner over to join you both for an hour or so before she leaves. And then invite her girlie shopping with you on a Saturday.
Trust me - once your dad sees how only HE is the one now missing out, he'll follow suit (under some or other face-saving excuse).
I agree with everything that your saying and I do appreciate that my mother called with her offering of an olive branch, my door to all my family will always be open. However, I feel that it is the right time for me to just distance myself from their veiws and opinions. In scenarios similar to this in the past I have just gone round in a very vicious circle of argument,leaving, accepting the peace offering and then landing right back in the argument about exactly the same subject in a matter of time. My partner is completely closed to having anything to do with my family, for now anyway (he too can be very stubborn). Afterall, they are not his family and he hasnt got to forgive their irrational behaviour. I know I am not going to get the solution over night, I am just keeping the overall goal at the forefront of my mind which is to get married in the summer. I have really gone off of the idea of the big flash wedding party (which wasn't my idea in the first place). I just want to get out of the reoccurring argument...leaving...making up...argument etc etc. My sister has made me very welcome and we haven't discussed any thing to do with my circumstance, I don't want to involve her and jeopardise our relationship or hers and my parents.
Listen, their attitude, not yours, is what has make you feel forced - FORCED - to give up your secure source of monthly income and future savings. Despite the gesture itself was an olive branch - me, I call that money transfer COMPENSATION. And then only a smidgen of what you've lost.
It can't come with any strings attached because how on earth would they enforce any? And you not reacting to it as a lure to go back home is entirely in your hands. So TAKE the money, see it as an apology come minimal compensation, and DON'T give in and go home and DON'T engage in any same ol' same ol' arguments. Berbom.
I know you're upset but that's no reason to cut off your nose to spite your own face. That money is *yours*! And you need it. And you WOULDN'T need it were it not for them!
Seriously - because I CANNOT labour this point enough! - if your partner shares stubbornness with your dad and is now saying he doesn't want anything to do with your family (for the foreseeable time being, I imagine?) then it's even MORE important that you take the money... to show him that you have a mind of your own and are NOT about to allow him to take up the position of your owner-dictator just because there's now a sudden vacancy. This doesn't make him a bad person or anything, it's just human nature (male, particularly): see inch, take mile; see hole to insert crowbar into and make bigger hole to climb through, insert crowbar and lever away; see vacated seat supposedly marked LOST'S BOSS, take it quick before someone else does. He needs to understand that YOU'RE taking that vacant seat. Not him, not your dad, not your mum... YOU. And you're keeping it (despite you'll happily go into boss + boss partnership with him), because that's New You and New You doesn't NEED a boss any more.
You need that money that's by rights yours? TAKE IT!
If you don't wannit, give it to me. ;-p
"Afterall, they are not his family and he hasnt got to forgive their irrational behaviour."
Yes, he does. Assuming they indicate they WANT forgiveness, that is, then - yes, he does. BECAUSE THEY'RE *YOUR* FAMILY AND HIS IN-LAWS-TO-BE. And I call that olive branch by your mum at least a damn good indication that she indeed wants forgiveness. So he has to give it or else HE then switches to being in the wrong.
If, on the other hand, you DON'T take the money then you yourself are either going to be making yourself as bad as they are OR they're going to subliminally see it that you fear taking it because you believe it DOES give them some sort of hold over you still/again. And if they get THAT impression then the obvious thought is that you're TOO WEAK to resist thus need any artificial aid or to rid yourself of any artificial puller in order to KEEP resisting... meaning you can be worked on. You want them to realise they shouldn't even bother going there any more.
Get it now? So it's, 'Cheers for the dosh, mum! That certainly helps a little re my now-lost prior income'.
"I have really gone off of the idea of the big flash wedding party (which wasn't my idea in the first place)."
GOOD. Suggest you put that olive branch towards a Caribbean beach ceremony where it's just you and him, the vicar and a couple of other guests as witnesses... and your mum and whomever else wants to say AND DO apology in the meantime (and can afford the flight and accommodation).
I get everything you are saying and it all makes sense. i couldn't give the money back as I would feel like I was doing that purely to prove a point, throwing it back in their face, to me that's pointless. It would just inflame the situation and circulate more rumours. That is the last thing I want or need. The reality of the situation is this; my parents know that deep down they can't stop me from going ahead and doing what I intend to do, they also know that I highly respect their points of veiw and I truly Beleive won't stop trying to get me to change my mind. That part is hard because I constantly justify my relationship to them, I'm tired of that. With regards to my partner, he never 'instructs' me on what to do or say where they are concerned, he only gives an opinion and makes it clear he wants no involvement with them and doesn't want to accept anything from them. In time to come, I want to keep building on my relationship and the goals we have made together, I donf feel like I can keep jumping camp from one to the other, I am part of both and as such I don't want to keep hearing insults of what one thinks about the other. I think because my partner knows that my parents behaviour has swayed me more towards him, he doesn't feel the need to make any further effort with them. In a perfect world, they would all contact each other and sort their differences out, I have got no where in 18 months by being the go between.
Eventually, something or someone has got to give?? SURELY?!
Well, we've been at cross purposes then because I thought you were indicating you *would* give it back. So, good, no problemo then.
But...You highly respect their points of view? Que? Even though one of their most firm run of recent points was bigoted nonsense?
Have you tried taking the piss? If those were my parents then, knowing me - to every single ridiculous objection to my partner, I'd just time and time again sit there and say, 'Yeah, maybe, but the thing is... he's got a huuuuge d*ck!'. I'm talking 'going floppy on the supermarket floor'. If used in the right circumstance and where the other person gives you no other option, it works BEAUTIFULLY.
Try it! That's the point here - to find out what works best so that from here on in and forever you have a new tool to add to your life skills toolbelt. Especially as you're going to come up against people like this your entire life, not just your parents.
"I think because my partner knows that my parents behaviour has swayed me more towards him, he doesn't feel the need to make any further effort with them."
Nah. Men just take ages to finish sulking, that's all. He'll come round, you'll see.
Soooo this morning my mum calls to talk about business and then comes on to the fact that my grandmother is holding a big farewell get together for my father and brother who are going away on business for atleast a month. She explains that the whole family are coming AGAIN and would I like to bring my partner. She said in the conversation, I can see you are not going to Change your mind so we have no option but to accept him but we can't do that if we can't meet him,
Your father doesn't even know what he looks like. For me and my partner, while I appreciate the offering, I feel it is too soon. I cannot stand a get together with a false atmosphere and that is exactly what this would be and that would be even IF I could persuade my partner to even go. I'm fed up with the battle from the middle
Well its a mess alright! Like you have realised, the biggest mistake you did was shared what your family said about your partner with him. He also on his part did act a bit immaturely in the sense retorted directly back to your family causing bitterness all around. Next you guys miss the important meeting. What was the picture that went out about him? You and your partner may be happy together but has your family ever seen you both happy together? Have they seen your partner caring for you, doing things for you, giving you happiness in some form or the other? Your family did do the mistake of perhaps trusting facebook. But what have you both done to change that perception? Thats the first thing both of you need to work on.
You might cut off from family for the time being but from whatever I have read in here about you, you are the type that values attachments and relationships greatly. It hurts you to know that they have formed wrong opinions about you. It hurts to think that you will be separated from them for a long long time. This hurt will never die off. You will carry it into your marriage as a baggage.
What you need to do is tackle your family one by one. One by one get them to your side. May be start with mother, then brother etc. Last father. Father will be difficult to convince. They always want the world's best (in their eyes) for their daughters. My own father never liked my husband initially. I felt its something like jealousy that now someone else would be more important in their daughters eyes than them. Over the years of course when he realised that how my husband takes care of me and our family, his opinion is changed. Took a while but it all turned out well after sometime.
The gettogether meeting idea is bad, I agree.
(Disagree with the first half, I'm afraid. No, it's not 'a mess', it's patently getting sorted via a second, great olive branch, so clearly won't be a case of separation for a long time as could act as maritally-interfering baggage. And it wasn't Lost & partner's job to defend against, change and meet face-to-face with grossly unfair misperceptions (times god knows how many negatively-judgmental faces all at once), and neither in that climate should it be so surprising that he'd lose his bottle and cop out given the first opportunity or excuse. He's special but he's not Superman. Plus, if they've got eyes and ears and any trust in their daughter's judgement, they've seen her happiness at being with him just by looking and listening to her. Also, this new, backing-down development from their side has occurred *without* Lost and Mr Lost-to-be's having had to do a thing to change their insulting pre-conceptions except for walk away... FUNNY THAT. Parents should keep their own, independent fears and issues out of their kids' lives, take their OWN responsibilities, or not complain when their kids shuffle away.)
"Soooo this morning my mum calls to talk about business and then comes on to the fact that my grandmother is holding a big farewell get together for my father and brother who are going away on business for atleast a month. She explains that the whole family are coming AGAIN and would I like to bring my partner. She said in the conversation, I can see you are not going to Change your mind so we have no option but to accept him but we can't do that if we can't meet him,"
Well done, Sherlock! (- her) And you weren't going to EVER meet him with that past attitude of yours, were you.
"Your father doesn't even know what he looks like."
Nor does she, so that's her trying to imply that this pre-prejudice was all *his*.
"For me and my partner, while I appreciate the offering, I feel it is too soon. I cannot stand a get together with a false atmosphere and that is exactly what this would be and that would be even IF I could persuade my partner to even go. I'm fed up with the battle from the middle
If you feel it's too soon then, as a grown, independent adult now equal to them in this sort of regard, TAKE YOUR RIGHT TO SAY SO. Nicely. Explain that although THEY can (seemingly) turn on a sixpence, you and he can't because what they did HURT. And then ask for a definite raincheck to prove this explanation of yours true.
...although I don't think your partner truly ever had anything to do with this. They just wanted to keep and control you like they owned you and used him/this life event as their next new excuse because it was a meatier than ever before bid for freedom.
I agree with aspects of both of the replies. I feel great upset about not seeing my family because regardless of their irrational behaviour, we have always been a close family and although the home enviroment isn't a happy one, I only get one family and care dearly for them all. My partner is digging his heels in about not meeting with the family, I do understand his insecurities and empathise with the pressure he feels (I have not voiced this to him in so many words to add to his reasons of not going) in an ideal world, we would attend the family meeting as a sign of unity between us but as my partner quite rightly said, how can we go and play happy family with sincere positive feeling after all the name calling and accusations. I think I am going to go to the family meal as a sign that I haven't got a cold heart towards them and regardless of what my family THINK, my partner wouldn't ever stop me having involvement with them. I feel that everybodies emotions are extremely raw and it is too soon to try and smooth over the top of everything that has happened.
I had a breif conversation with my partner about maybe puttin off the wedding for a couple of months which I think upset him but I reassured him the only reason for my suggestion was to give us more time to prepare ourselves financially, however after assessing it, we've decided to stick to August.
I would hope that if my family were honest, they would evidently see a change in my mood and attitude to life since I have been with my partner. Overall I feel more wholesome and happy. The only time I have a set back is when other people get involved and try and convince me differently.
As a solution and going forward I would like my family to contact my partner directly and vice versa to resolve any issues they have with each other because as i have said to both parties, I don't like hearing my family insult my future husband and my future husband talk negatively about my family, my flesh and blood. I love them all.
"I agree with aspects of both of the replies."
Then I disagree with you over those certain bracketed aspects as well (assuming that *doesn't* include that you feel upset, considering that one is obviously a given). I'm talking about where yours and fiance's responsibility ends and theirs begins.
I understand completely why your partner would now be digging in his heels about facing Der Gestapo. Having had to have taken all that TOTALLY unfair, TOTALLY undeserved, TOTALLY unprovoked, TOTALLY needless and avoidable sh*t for so long, who could blame him for being suspicious about how sincere they now are. Bit of a miracle insta-turnaround, wouldn't you say?
You love them all. Yes. So you deserve love FROM them all. Ones without unfair, unwarranted conditions attached. Your future husband has EARNED his right to talk negatively about your family. It's called OW!
I get what your mum's doing. Backing down because she doesn't want to lose you from her life. But fiance wants any backing down to be because they see the error of their ways thus don't want YOU to lose HIM from your life. Genuinely. This is the difference that makes ALL the difference. Ain't rocket science. And if you're intending to spend the rest of your life with a man of his integrity and principle (whom by the same token expects employment of those morals to be a two-way street where interaction with other people's concerned), then you need to try imagining yourself having been in HIS shoes all this time. So what I'm saying is, it is not just pressure, it's the principle.
Also, ref spending your life with him - you SHOULD voice everything to him. You're supposed to be a team. That means no secrets and no withheld thoughts and feelings from the discussions table. United we stand, Divided we fall. You can't be a team if you have differing attitudes and aims, including/or side aims, to that degree.
What you're saying is, he's holding a grudge and you aren't. But, apart from the fact you're used to it, as I've just explained on his behalf, some grudges are justified for a while. You only forgive if the other party WANTS forgiveness and knows what they're going to do with it (otherwise its merely acceptance and tolerance on your part and pretence on theirs). If they don't, then why are they doing things to keep you around, what else are they after? Well, in this case we know, don't we: because you're now Siamese twins, meaning you come together, meaning they CAN'T be seen to reject him or they automatically reject you. Ah, but they could continue to do so IN THEIR MINDS. So that's not lesson learned, is it, it's mere grudging acquiescence. So - see? They MUST themselves hold a grudge (because the seeming turnaround is too suspiciously early). In which case - why does HE have to be the High Road walker and not them when he wasn't even the one who did a single thing wrong?
He did NOTHING to them. Not even his bailing out just before the meeting could be deemed reproachable because, again, NOT Superman.
If I understand you correctly, meaning, what you're now saying is you'll go alone? MWACK-MWACK-OOPS. That's disloyal. That's you 'saying', you don't care if they continue henceforth to SECRETLY dislike 'him and his kind', just as long as YOU don't lose out. Sorry, but that is not team solidarity. And he may not even try to stop you from going but that doesn't mean he won't end up thinking twice about you and whether you're really the right woman of the right moral fibre for him to spend the rest of his life with. That's what blokes often do: give you the freedom to act, sit back and watch what you actually do, and then make their minds up whether they can live with it or not.
Sure, if he were Superman, he could go with you just to SEE whether they've changed their tune or whether a change of tune RESULTS from their finally meeting him. But that then presents an invitation that carries a high risk of his coming away merely insulted all over again, this time just by VIBES AND UNDER-THE-TABLE SNUBS. You see how willing YOU'D be to continue over the threshold if at the entrance to a pub, a sign read, 'Attention All Patrons: Regulars and staff may beat you up emotionally, therefore, please enter at your own risk'. Er, I don't think so, PRRTH! There are too many other pubs, thanks.
Different if he had a loaded gun on him just in case. THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE *YOU*, LOST, because you're his protector in this situation! Does he or doesn't he? Because he ain't going in until he does.
Sorry, but I think you're being overly unempathetic and unfair and Shivangi likewise - TO HIM. Well, I'm trying to help you fix this with BOTH of you ending up happy, not just you and certainly not just you and your parents/rellies. So on this paramount point, I'm with your fiance, sorry.
And this would DEFINITELY have me thinking twice about you: "I had a breif conversation with my partner about maybe puttin off the wedding for a couple of months". Because - be honest - it's NOT just to prepare financially. It's in the hope that by then, your main side of the family will feel more like attending thereby giving their blessing, and you not feeling humiliated on your wedding day. (Well, you have friends and better principled relatives, don't you?)
Thank god you backed down again on your own. But, still, the message yet again becomes this: Depending on how strongly convicted I'm capable of remaining, especially when in the right, we as a married couple might well throughout our married life have to suffer and lose out because of my parents' and relatives' ridiculously childish attitudes and behaviour, whatever they might at the time be. And that in itself carries this message: If you marry me, you'll be liable to have to join me in dancing to my parents' unreasonable or downright Machievellian tunes.
You've been mal-trained to think like an over-accommodator, liable to actually ENABLE. He either hasn't/isn't or has learned how to reject and overcome it. In which case...
"The only time I have a set back is when other people get involved and try and convince me differently."
...then I suggest you plant your flag in JUST THE ONE camp. A half flag in one and another half in another is next to useless when it comes to achieving anything (you just get a half result and half non-result in each). The one 'belonging' to the person you want to live the REST of your life in, not your past. Then when you've had a chance to become more clear about what is the RIGHT thing to do (rather than keep being swayed by YOUR sense of what constitutes social survival), you can do it unwaveringly.
Your confidence should come from the fact you only have to LOOK at the thus-far insta-movements your family's feet have been making to know that if you hold out just that bit longer, they will do the caving that so rightfully is theirs, whereupon any meeting will GENUINELY be 'in the middle'. Confidence should also come from knowing without any doubts that this indeed IS the man you are going to spend the rest of your life with, even after your parents have shed their mortal coils.
This is your life lesson and this bloke called fiance your power tool training wheels for learning it so that you yourself end up with your own power tool. Fail to make full use of it at your future cost or seriously delayed gain. Or not. It depends on which present-to-future road you want to walk, doesn't it.
So this: "As a solution and going forward I would like my family to contact my partner directly and vice versa to resolve any issues they have with each other because as i have said to both parties, I don't like hearing my family insult my future husband and my future husband talk negatively about my family, my flesh and blood. I love them all."
..although sounds quite laudible, should, IMO (and in his, I'm betting) be this: "As a solution and going forward I INSIST THAT MY FAMILY CONTACT my partner directly [delete/and vice versa/delete] to resolve any issues they have WITH HIM [his are just symptomatic reactions] because as i have said [???to both parties*], I don't like hearing my family insult my future husband and my future husband talk negatively about my family, my flesh and blood. I love them all."
*There are no 'both parties', Lost, as if you constitute the third. There is just the other party (parents) and your party (you and ****FIANCE****). See the difference? The first move is theirs. And it has to be genuine or at least genuine WILLING.
If ever you're torn about what to do, that sensation is a signal to say, DON'T DO A THING YET, WAIT SOME MORE. So I repeat my advice about telling the parents you're on the one hand very happy at their having made the invitation for what it says, but just need MORE TIME to recover from your (plural) injuries.
Solidarity/Loyalty [thumps chest hard]. It's one of the VITAL ingredients for making Everlasting Love Pie.