'Self sex' and fantasizing about another woman - wrong / cheating?
I have recently been having a great deal of anxiety about something and I wanted to get others opinions.
I am currently in a relationship with my girlfriend who I love, and I would never in a million years cheat on her.
Recently while masturbating, I actually fantasized about another woman while watching porn. This is somebody who I had past sexual experiences with, but do not (and won't) come in contact with in my current relationship. Hypothetically, if any situation presented itself with this woman, I would never act on it, or even consider it, and I have no feelings towards this woman. It was strictly a fantasy which I used during masturbation, and I essentially used the porn video to
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. we all have strange experiences and this is probably one of yours:') coming from a girls perspective, I would be pretty unhappy if I discovered my boyfriend did this. But taking into account you really would never get back with her, then I wouldn't worry about it too much
Thanks for your response.
I think the thing that's making me feel the worse is, as you mentioned, the fact that my girlfriend would (obviously) be very unhappy if she knew of this fantasy. But then the other part of me says that everything I'm manufacturing to myself is strictly inside my own mind, and doesn't actually exist. I don't know, I'm starting to lose it.
I agree with Ukbeth, So many people think of other people when they have sex and don't feel guilty about it - this is not abnormal. What you are expecting of yourself is more than what the average person expects. Did you see LA story where the man and woman are in bed and both fantasizing about Mel Gibson?
Simple question, yes or no answer, please: Would you prefer it if when you masturbated it was your girlfriend you fantasized about?
The fact that I even have to answer this question makes me feel bad.
Of course, 110% I would rather have sex with my girlfriend. In the situatio I described, I was home alone all day while my girlfriend was at work, and I woke up feeling 'on edge'. That's the only reason I masturbated.
Noted. But I didn't ask you if you'd rather have *sex* with her or why you did what every other sexually mature human on the planet does. Please re-read the question and answer it again straight:
Would you prefer it if when you masturbated it was your girlfriend you fantasized about?
I honestly would say that I prefer both. I like to think about things I would do with my partner while masturbating, along with letting my mind wander to other areas regarding other people I find attractive. I wouldn't say that I prefer it one way or another. But just because I may have let my mind wander to fantasize about other women does not mean I have any intention or desire to act on the fantasy with other people. It just felt harmless to let my mind wander wherever it wanted to go, but for some reason I have felt guilt after the fact because of this.
^ Thank you for your response.
In the situation I originally described, it wasn't that I was channeling sexual feelings AWAY from my partner. She was not home all day, and I just felt a little 'on edge' while she was gone. In fact, we ended up having sex that same night. But I appreciate your advice, and will be sure to keep this in mind.
Let me ask one final question - do you think this is rationale guilt I am feeling for doing this, or irrational guilt? Again, I wasn't "replacing" doing this with my partner since sex was not an option for me at the time. The guilt is just coming from the fact that I even HAD a fantasy about someone else during masturbation.
Given your above response, I agree with our resident Reverend Mother, Susiedqqq (;-D).
There is the other possibility, however, that your guilt is over something else entirely but getting projected onto your merchant banking sessions in order that you don't have to face what that something else is whilst discharging it or because it's buried so deep you've yet to identify it? E.g., did, perhaps, one of your parents (or someone else close to you) cheat when you were younger, meaning anything you do that, to you, even *remotely* resembles cheating mentality, no matter how tenuous a link, makes you automatically feel like a cad?
I mean, that's quite a lot of guilt we're talking about, that you'd actually create a thread about it, yes?
First off, thanks again for everyone's responses. I realize that assisting a random person over the internet is not something anybody has to do.
Soulmate, in response to your comment: It's interesting that you bring that up. Because I believe I actually know the reason that this is eating at me so much when it probably shouldn't be. To give a quick background to a very long story, my previous girlfriend was when I was in college and about 21-22 years old. I was way too immature for a relationship at that time (which I didn't see at the time), along with the fact that I really don't think I felt all that strongly about the girl I was dating at the time (but for some reason didn't end the relationship).
Basically, there were probably a dozen or so occasions where I acted like a complete jacka$$ while in this relationship, primarily due to my immaturity. This relationship has since ended, and both of us are much better off since then. Since the relationship ended, I have had a lot of time to reflect on the mistakes I made, and it makes me cringe how immature and selfishly I acted in this past relationship.
Basically, when I started my new relationship, I vowed to never make any sort of mistakes like I previously did, because I was older, wiser, and more mature. I also feel so much stronger about my current GF than I did about my previou. I think the mistakes I made in my past relationship still haunt me to some degree, because I have sort of labeled myself as a "cheater" ever since then. Because of this 'self labeling', me fantasizing about some other woman has, in a way, awoken the past demons of my internal cheater label. I know in my heart that I would never cheat on my current GF, but I think the past is still something that's haunting me and is why I'm having such a hard time dealing with this.
Ah, but we *do* (bee-doobie-doo). It's in our base programming. ("Heeeeelp usssss!!!" LOL)
Anyway, cheers for the enlightenment and I know exactly what's what now... Have my Love Mountain analogy:
A relationship is a hand-in-hand walk up and around the edge of a mountain from ground level (first meeting) to top (everlasting soulmatedom). By the nature of the mountain path, one of you has to walk on the outermost edge (that be der brave man until it's time to take it in frequent turns).
You and exipoo-poos got X far up the mountain, with you on the outer edge TOO MUCH of the time. Because of this *and* because of your unreadiness, the two added together meant you lost your bottle, jumped off the cliff edge, taking her down with you. CRASH! Broken Bone City.
You and (for want of a better word -) *current* girlfriend have reached roughly the exact same point on the path, i.e. exact same height. High enough to scare if/when you look down.
That you jumped or accidentally-on-purpose fell first with the ex is neither here nor there because whomsoever is the faller/jumper is merely the partner with the least stress tolerance at that juncture whom therefore simply ACKNOWLEDGES that the relationship is doomed to failure, through said act... which obviously is exacerbated if s/he is stuck being on the outside edge to begin with. Hence relationship suicide at the hands of one or both of you (that case, you).
It's perfectly natural - whether you sense this phenomenon or not - to experience an especially big wobble when recognising the same, 'dangerous' locale via either the sense of highness or same scenery. It's also natural prior to your managing to articulate it, to 'convert' it into something else toute suite rather than risk keeping the stress inside you going round and round, driving you ever more crazy and jittery.
So, in essence, what you have here is you trying to tempt yourself away from current girlfriend by your own volition in order to avoid the "inevitable" repeat fall, which you're doing by trying (not very well) to imagine having sex and being turned on by it with someone/s else. Doesn't matter if it's an imaginery person or celebrith, it's still feels like a test-run thus a sort of back-up safety net at the ready "in case".
That you're moreover failing (thoughts turning back to her here and there) is a good sign to say your more sensible, rational side knows you intrinsically are safe thus is allowing your super-ego to 'view' these internal 'porn' images AND GO AHEAD WITH CENSORING THEM (by intermittently switching the image back to her). But because your conscious mind can't be placated (yet), it and said unconscious are basically having a wrestling match, HENCE your fears are likewise being allowed to manifest a little in the form of said attempt to imagine life (this case, sex life) WITHOUT HER. Half and half. See it?
You're not "a" cheater unless you self-sanction it via failure to repent and/or repetition. Otherwise, you're an EX-cheater, your case, ONE-TIME, now recovered. Plus you were young and not that far off from when as a toddler in the garden in Summer you'd do a poo on the patio and, to your mother's horror, want to investigate it by sticking your chubby little finger in it (or was that just me? LOL). Further, since all that really matters in this life is *now and beyond* - not the past - you are at this point Not A Cheater. In other words, "This thing we call failure is not the falling down but the STAYING down" (Mary Pickford), and you should trust yourself and your recovered/improved integrity more.
The p*ss-easy practical solution is to cease allowing your current relationship to remain in limbo, maintained yet not benefiting from the next pending promotion-ette. Men put in, women acknowledge and encourage = men, encouraged, put in again, women, encouraged, acknowledge and re-encourage....and so on and so forth... step, step, step, up, step, step, step, up... (assuming you started it the right and natural way, meaning, roughly from Neutral/Ground Level (her)). So - 'scuse mixed metaphors - you need to start to construct (or finish completing) the next room on that new-build house in order to gain the reassurance of seeing her then set about decorating it (nesting).
If you do something/give her something as some repeat or improved sign of your mutual commitment to elevate the relationship a little, you'll obviously fast-track the pair of you PAST that terrifying spot/height on the path to where you can again relax for the next X miles. If you fail to, what will happen is you'll, usually totally unawares, decide to test out her commitment and gain reassurance the MacWay, which is typically by acting up/out (starting a fight, that sort of thing). In other words, you need to keep the momentum going as well as make tangible/manifest any uppage in mutual feeling so that you're too busy looking at **each other** to notice where you again are up that beautiful but scary mountain.
How serious at this juncture ARE you out of 10 over this woman in terms of lifetime longevity? If you can establish the level it'll be easier to know what specifically to do or give/buy her whilst neither discouraging nor over-encouraging her.
I'm trying to think what it was now-husband gave me at the first point of precariousness on the path......Oh, yes, it was two, solid, sterling Silver keyrings (one for him) featuring half a heart each which, when put together, made one complete heart. Allowing for having had time to digest, assimilate and adapt a fortnight later (i.e. catch up, as per, to Mr Speed Gonzalez), I reciprocated with a sterling Silver, little portable, lidded ashtray engraved with, [his name], I super-love you, [my name]. You'd be surprised how incredibly comforting and re-inspiring these things are that you can hold and look at during these bog-standard wobbles.
Alternatively, you can sacrifice something. On which note - is she aware that you watch porn? And do you actually realise, now, that despite I've articulated it where many woman cannot, they still deep down sense what it means when their man continues to watch it, which is why (whether or not they're self-assured enough to admit it) it makes female relationship partners feel whatever degree of aggrieved and rejected?
Anyhoo, the upshot is you're perfectly normal... No need to call matron, LOL. So - "Roger. Over"...
Thank you for your advice. You obviously put a lot of thought into my situation.
You appear to be someone who enjoys the use of analogies and metaphors, so I had to read over your response a few times before it started clicking. Let me tell you my interpretation of your comment:
Basically, it sounds like you're saying that I am at a very similar point in my current relationship where I was in my past relationship. In my past relationship, I 'jumped off the cliff' thus ending the relationship because of a combination of several relationship issues. You are saying that currently, I am at a point in my relationship where I am getting somewhat frightened when I look down given the height I am currently at, and I am trying to force myself off the cliff by imagining other woman. Since my mind and the love for my current girlfriend, however, is always bringing me back rather than 'jumping off the cliff'.
I think that I am at a similar 'height' in this relationship as I was with my last one. The only difference is that I feel so much stronger about my current gf than past. I love her more than anything (10 out of 10 in response to your question). You're right, I am an ex cheater. I truly want to spend the rest of my life with my girlfriend, and I want to live a life of integrity. Obviously, in my past relationship, I did not have that integrity, hence the reason I am an 'ex cheater'. But I have changed and I would never do the things I did with my past girlfriend. Due to the fact that I desperately want to live my relationship with integrity (and prove to myself that I am not the person I was), I panic when I think about the fact that I fantasized about another woman during masturbation as a way that I lost that integrity and did something horribly wrong.
In regards to your analogy, you're right, I think it's time I 'walk up the mountain staring at my girlfriend' rather than looking down, because I have no fears in taking this woman to the top of the mountain. It's just as if my conscience is in a wrestling match with itself (as you mentioned) trying to convince myself that I didn't actually do anything wrong (one side is yelling IT WAS A FANTASY AND NOTHING MORE) and the other side is telling me I acted out of integrity (other side is saying YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG).
So, I guess it's just a matter of figuring out which side of my conscience is the logical one. By no means do I have any intention or desire of jumping off the mountain. I want to make it to the top with this woman.
Spot-on, well done! Yes, it's YOU you don't trust sufficiently, not her. But you're not 'you' any more, not in that way. You just haven't yet caught up to yourself, i.e. New You (- perhaps been very busy all that time?).
Re your last question: if you decide the side of your conscience (or over-developed Super-Ego) that deems you guilty and unworthy is the logical one, you're a tw*t. Basically. That decision would be downright RIDICULOUS and would lend support to the theory that a side of you (the one that panics) is trying to get yourself "constructively dismissed" from the relationship in order to pip an imagined, future "firing" to the post.
So don't. Because you're too intelligent for that.
10 out of 10 warrants something like a Dearest ring. Could you afford it?
Thank you, Soulmate.
I very much appreciate your advice. The time is definitely approaching where this 'Dearest ring' will be my next step. Financially, I think I am in a good place to afford it haha.
Can I just ask you: do you think this masturbation fantasy which I have experienced is very common amongst men and women in relationships? Most of the reason I get so worked up about stuff like this is because I begin to think that I am the ONLY person who does something like this, when in reality I figure it may be very common just not actually expressed since it was strictly imagination.
I just feel weird because I have built this situation up to such a 'big deal' in my own mind, to the point where now it almost feels like I am holding a secret which I need to have a discussion about with my gf. I know that explaining to my gf that I have sexual fantasies about other women during masturbation would only give rise to insecurities, and quite frankly I think it would be kind of selfish for me to say that given the nature of what we're talking about. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I can't do it and nor need to these days, but, yes, it's pretty common. Lots of reasons, e.g. the fantasy is deemed too unsavoury to involve and risk tarnishing the image of (and your mental associations with) your loved-on; or you need a fleeting mental break/diversion; or your sex life's become a bit hum-drum and you're trying to self-spice it up the harmless way; or just because it's fun. And yes, sometimes it's one foot on the test run for later cheating - the very thin end of the infidelity wedge. But that's not you. You don't/can't diagnose a condition based on one symptom alone and you don't suffer from the rest of them, meaning, it's just mental pressure relieving mixed with cat o' nine tail-ing yourself (create the need for guilt in order to feel the guilt).
Any other mysteries or myths you want blown out of the water? But I have to ask: where's your dad or mum in all of this? Were you never able to question them that honestly before you left home?
No, don't discuss it! [lets off Klaxon beside SA55's ear]. There's zero point. Again that was your cowardly custard side asking me that, the one that wants to self-sabotagingly experiment with pushing the exit door release mechanism. Put it back in its place, do NOT let it cast a negative cloud over your life.
You do make me laugh, though. In a good way, I mean. Because MOST men have to battle with their egos to ensure THEY don't ruin their lives by encouraging the urge to destroy and rebuild (and repeat, yawn). But here's you having to battle your super-ego! Like I said - over-developed. What did that - father's a man of the cloth?..what? Whatever, you're now your own parent where the final finishings and flourishings are concerned so, turn that over-fear of being a bad boy DOWN a notch or two. You're looking to become a ROUNDED individual, not a wonky, out-of-proportion one. Seriously, if your super-ego were your arm muscles, you'd look like Popeye even *without* the need for spinach. You'd look a bit ridiculous, in other words.
Still... having too much and having to tone it down is far easier and preferably to not having enough. Every cloud...
But, yeah, you are still on the normal spectrum. :-)
Thank you for all of your advice. I think this 'super ego' you keep mentioning is a product of all of my past mistakes and the fact that I internally still have not caught up to myself (still feel like a cheater even though I really am not).
I appreciate your comment regarding not being able to diagnose a problem based upon one symptom alone. Honestly, I never looked at this as a way to get my foot in the door which is step 1 to cheating. No way in hell. I have absolutely no desire or intention to ever cheat on my gf, and even if things started to go sour between us, I still wouldn't cheat on her. I really just looked at it as a way to explore my fantasies/imagination.
I am hoping this experience allows me to grow even further by being able to finally put my 'super ego' aside. Honestly, my past has haunted me for the past few years; I just constantly look for reasons to call myself a cheater.
Thank you very much for all your help.
No, you don't 'put it aside' (being over-extreme again, tut-tut!). It's a dial (think equaliser board) - meaning it *can't* be put aside - and yours goes up to 11 (name the film!) and is set to full. Turn it down to about 8, try that setting on for size, and then adjust further to suit if need be. Your 'finger' is this: "I'm acting like a would-be-monk again". Alternatively, think of someone you admire and aspire to be like, someone a little more balanced yet still on the highly moral spectrum, and always ask yourself what they would do in your whatever situation.
But, on behalf of everyone on this thread: you're welcome and feel free to call again! :-)