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Life A Mess

Posted by
NIGHTSKYXXX
on May 15 2015 at 11:42
Member since: 15 May 2015
Relationship advice forum category advice forum category I have been married to a sales man for 18 years we have 3 grown up children, two ready to fly the nests to go to uni. I feel so lost alone depressed and my life is a mess, i dont know if my husband is cheating, he says hes not, i havent worked for a while i have no friends and i just want a new life but dont know how to get it. I want to be independent have friends a job travel and be confident. All i do is cry be by myself all day wait til my husband gets home for company and i hate my life so much i dont know how it got so bad.sometimes i think is it because i met my husband and i have raised the kids looked after the home whilst he travelled and looked after himself. I feel he doesnt need me and its me crying out for attention but hes hardly here and we go out each weekend together but the rest of the week we stay in watch tv, its normally me who says lets go for a walk never him. I feel hes boring and if it wasnt for me saying to stay away then we never would. Do i need a new man.? He as always said if i met another man he would have to work and couldn't take time off all the time and can only do so much. he booked a holiday for us all as he said it will ge the last time we will all be together for a holiday but its 7 weeks away and i really wished it was now, he wonders why i am down about it because we are getting away and doesnt see it being long off. I really need to get away and see somwhere different and i wished to god i could get away now but i have no one to stay with and i feel im going mad. How often are partners supposed to spend with each other and how can i change this pathetic life i have?
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 17 2015 at 14:28
Member since: 19 August 2014
Were you feeling lost, alone and depressed BEFORE your eldest two starting making preparations for flying the nest or are you saying you've had this niggling but inarticulate-able feeling your husband's been/being unfaithful priorly but didn't have the headspace to stop and acknowledge it but now do?

Women who focus on their children's rearing to the exclusion of anything else in terms of weightiness and competiton-worthiness are you to be applauded. BUT HERE IS ITS DOWNSIDE. Everything has one. So to feel lost is natural and par for the course. What isn't quite so natural is trying to find justifications for the overkill of completely transforming your life of old where that means considering trading in your husband for a new and better model.

So here's the acid question: Did you [a] divert your attention away from your husband and almost exclusively towards you children because you realised that good baby specimen-creating aside, you had settled down with the wrong partner (which fact you can no longer ignore or tolerate) or [b] did you 'lose touch' with each other because you concentrated on the children to the exclusion of him as forced him to create a life of his own that largely excluded you and his status of married man?

"its normally me who says lets go for a walk never him." That's quite common with a lot of husbands (as is only going out at the weekends). Wife becomes Social Secretary.

I think it's more likely that you're panicking because your main job and interest is (are) about to make itself redundant and, surprised by how crap it can make a woman feel, are busily scanning around you to find something to blame it on so that you feel less "mad". You're not mad, it's normal. That's not to say your marriage hasn't fallen into a rut, outside of which you're living almost separate lives. But rut is not the same as him being a cheater. I know cheaters inside and out, backwards and forwards, even fourth-dimensionally, and NOTHING up there made my ultra-sensitive (this case, cheater-) radar go BEEP.

You need a job, a new purpose (and new faces and stimulii). If that's a frightening prospect (which, after years of being Super-Mum, it will be) then I suggest you start by going for something VERY part-time. Baby Steps. What sort of things appeal? What can you see yourself enjoying doing just once or twice a week?

Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 19 2015 at 22:03
Member since: 14 April 2014
I never neglected him whatsoever. It was always me saying to have sex always me making sure he was happy in bed not bothering about my own pleasure. I gave him more attention then I ever got in return. I asked him were he saw us in the future and he said he didnt know. That makes me think he can't love me enough because he would say he saw us growing old together. One minute he says I love you I don't want anyone else the next he said he didn't know were he saw us. I feel I shouldn't bother now giving him any attention keeping him at arms lenght all he as done as made me realise we could split up one day so why should I give him anymore of me. He said no one knows what will happen but if someone loved you enough they would reassure you enough to think that your secure with them, am I right?
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 20 2015 at 14:41
Member since: 19 August 2014
Sorry for the delay but on prior glance you appeared to be another poster entirely, posting a response whereas I was waiting to see NIGHTSKYXXX post.

"I gave him more attention then I ever got in return."

So what on earth made you persist in that? If you were a shop customer buying something that cost £10 but only gave the owner £5 and the owner showed no negative reaction and indeed went as far as to open the door for you with a warm smile and a 'Do come again!' - wouldn't YOU see it that you need never pay the going amount, never take any pricetag seriously, in order to gain whatever it was you wanted?

Granted, some high moralled people in that situation might insist on paying the full Tenner. But clearly that's not him. So why did you keep giving him the goods for free or cut price? Didn't care all that much whilst you had the kids to concentrate on, but now you don't ergo now you do?

"I asked him were he saw us in the future and he said he didnt know."

WHEN did you? If recent, then couldn't that be said to be on a par with that 'great', unanswerable interview question that goes, Where do you see yourself in 5 years' time? (Answer: I don't have a clue because I don't have a crystal ball.) I'm not suggesting some people *aren't* intelligent enough to work out that that means, where do you WANT TO BE in 5 years. But your husband is obviously a bit of a slippery bugger. YOU must know that, surely? So why even GIVE him that inch?

Madam, that you asked such an important question in a way so vague it positively ENCOURAGED a slippery, uncooperative bugger to give an answer open to negative interpretation reveals YOUR uncertainty... which is what I observed up there. That he feels as torn as you is to be expected considering a relationship is a three-legged-race whether in the upwards (bonding) direction or in reverse (detaching).

Ask him again more specifically: 'Do you see us still married to one another in the future?', and then report back. But don't you know how men's minds work? The very UNSURE AND NEGATIVE NATURE of the question was BOUND to have him taking that as a clue that you no longer want him and giving you a guarded and future-face-saving response in case he's right. A wife whom HERSELF is sure wouldn't have framed the question like that. In fact, she wouldn't even have asked such a question in the first place (so there's your answer about being reassuring enough, eh!). So ask again more positively and confidently. OR, if you want to be even more sure of his answer, ask him like this: Do you think when we're old and grey we might think about [insert plan, e.g. emmigrating or buying a Winnebago]?

Anyway, you shouldn't want whatever you want to hinge entirely on what the other person wants. You should know what you want and seek a CATEGORICALLY reciprocal sentiment, which, if you didn't get it, you THEN form decisions on from. So why don't you just bite the bullet and ask, 'Yes or no - am I correct in thinking you want a divorce now or within the foreseeable future?'.

Stop trying to get fired as if that's somehow easier than resigning. For starters, you don't even KNOW yet whether you even WANT to resign. And neither CAN you. Not until you go get yourself that part-time job and THEN see how you feel.

Eliminate the most obvious culprits FIRST instead of planning to immediately throw baby out with the bathwater.

Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 20 2015 at 23:54
Member since: 14 April 2014
So are you saying I should not of asked him were I saw us in the future? He said he wants to be with me but now I have my doubts because he didnt say he sees us together also recently I asked him to take a photo and he said he would of me but I meant of us both together, he as done this before so why doesnt he want to he photographed with me? He said he likes to take photos just of me but is this a lie hiding behind how he truly feels? I have always told him if he is not happy I will give him a divorce. He said he as been the one wanting us to be together and I dont.
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 21 2015 at 01:35
Member since: 14 April 2014
I want to add that he once said he unfortunately had a photo of me in his wallet when I asked if he had one of me and had I thought of becoming a mail order bride and have I talked to the wall yet when I was on anti depressants. This was all said years ago but i will never forget it and my father as said, whats the attraction my husband saw in me and I would of ended up a spinster if I hadnt of met my husband so have I married my dad with my husband saying horrible things like he did? He said when I asked him to take the photo of us, oh I suppose so and said it was a joke and cant we have a laugh anymore
Life a mess
Reply from
WINTERSUN
on May 21 2015 at 09:42
Member since: 07 May 2015
It sounds to me like maybe you are hoping someone gives you the advice of telling you....oh yes go for another man, leave .....It's you who said to your husband ' I have always told him if he is not happy I will give him a divorce. He said he as been the one wanting us to be together and I dont

And perhaps at times you wished he did say it, that he did want a divorce. But you will never instigate it, but go along with it and not feel so guilty if it is him who wants it.

And could it be that if he is cheating that would be easier for you to leave? Right now there isn't a reason, other than your suspicions and your feeling of helplessness, that your life is miserable. Ok to some that would be enough. But to leave a marriage when your partner hasn't cheated or been abusive, well it's harder to leave I think. Because most friends or family will ask why? and giving an answer of 'I'm not happy any more' well probably would get more understanding and sympathy from them if the answer is 'he cheated on me'

And did you stay with him all those years because of the children? And if that's why, I can understand that now you want to think of yourself,

We all need love and attention, hugs and kisses and its just not the same when you have to ask for them!

We have it in our heads well some of us, that if it were only like the movies or a book.

And I think we are all guilty of saying things we shouldn't have but at the time when we are angry we are only focused on hurting the other person. Does he still say things like that to you? ' he once said he unfortunately had a photo of me in his wallet when I asked if he had one of me and had I thought of becoming a mail order bride and have I talked to the wall yet when I was on anti depressants

or was that in the past, not that its acceptable then but was that all in the past?

7 weeks is a long time when you want something here and now! but while you are waiting for it to come round, treat yourself (finances permitting) go buy some new clothes, get your hair done, a facial your nails. Go out for a night with one of your kids, or a family member/friend that you get along with. Is there some club in your area that you could join? Try keep your thoughts positive till you get to your holiday. Enrol in some online courses that interest you. There are a lot of sites and many are free.

I think the key is to distract ourselves till we get to a happier point, for you now is your holiday. And maybe you will see the man who you cared for long ago surface. No work less stress, everyone just relaxing. And if things are still as bad during or after well its never too late to start a new life. But I think if you get it into your head that it doesn't have to be this way forever! that you do have options, maybe you can take one day at a time, knowing that life can get better. It's never too late!

Hope you have a good holiday :)

Life a mess
Reply from
WINTERSUN
on May 21 2015 at 09:44
Member since: 07 May 2015
and by the way when I say it's never too late, my mum met someone when she was 70 after my dad died she was alone for 25years.
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 21 2015 at 16:43
Member since: 14 April 2014
I found a un wrapped condom in our wheelie bin and our son as used them as he as got a girlfriend. My husband got sterilized 17 years ago but how do I know its not from my husband? Why was it still in the bag if our son had bought it? I feel to embarrassed to ask our son so how do I find out the truth?
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 22 2015 at 15:46
Member since: 19 August 2014
"So are you saying I should not of asked him were I saw us in the future? He said he wants to be with me but now I have my doubts because he didnt say he sees us together also recently I asked him to take a photo and he said he would of me but I meant of us both together, he as done this before so why doesnt he want to he photographed with me? He said he likes to take photos just of me but is this a lie hiding behind how he truly feels? I have always told him if he is not happy I will give him a divorce. He said he as been the one wanting us to be together and I dont."

"I want to add that he once said he unfortunately had a photo of me in his wallet when I asked if he had one of me and had I thought of becoming a mail order bride and have I talked to the wall yet when I was on anti depressants. This was all said years ago but i will never forget it and my father as said, whats the attraction my husband saw in me and I would of ended up a spinster if I hadnt of met my husband so have I married my dad with my husband saying horrible things like he did? He said when I asked him to take the photo of us, oh I suppose so and said it was a joke and cant we have a laugh anymore"

Well, ITS ME, why on earth didn't you say so from the start? Okay, *now* I appreciate why you're suspicious.

Let's go through it all with a fine-tooth comb...

1. Yes, why wouldn't he want you to have a recent photo of you and he together as a couple? The usual reason is because you might put it on Facebook where someone ELSE might clock it and be struck by the contradiction it posed to what they'd been told ("It's a loveless marriage/she can't stand me/I'm just waiting for the day I can divorce her once the kids have left home"). Alternatively, it might be a preventative measure to one who *intends* to come out with that married-man-wanting-to-cheat gumph. Yes, this would definitely rouse my suspicions. I can't think of ANY innocent reason for his trying to wheedle out of being photographed as a couple. Plus if he liked photos of you, the simple solution is to take BOTH.

"He said when I asked him to take the photo of us, oh I suppose so and said it was a joke and cant we have a laugh anymore""

Pff. Where's the punchline? I can't see it, can you? Strange joke if you ask me. The fact remains, regardless, that his first response was to attempt to avoid being 'recorded' as behaving like your happily married spouse.

EVIDENCE FOR STRAYING/PLANNING IT, ITEM NO. 1.

2. Yes, wanting to stay together but being able to SEE it are indeed two separate things. Iffy. And when added to the above piece of concrete evidence and the altogether more clear backdrop you've now provided - even more compelling.

POSSIBLE EVIDENCE.

3. Have you thought of becoming a mail-order bride? What on EARTH was this said apropos of? And did HE say 'unfortunately' or was that you just now?

4. Him reckoning (to the point of saying it out-loud) that it's YOU who doesn't want you to be together sounds like... She doesn't want me so I'd better find someone who does. Whether merely self-justification/demonisation in order to quell guilt over what is already, unbeknownst to you, a fait accomplis in motion or whether testament to how he's truly been feeling hence *mulling over* the idea of getting a mistress, is usually impossible to say from this....were it not for the fact you've asserted vehemently that you did the OPPOSITE to neglecting him, even when an active mother.

POSSIBLE EVIDENCE.

5. Your own father has made that (wholly unfounded) dig at you, his own precious child? Er...pardon? Yes, if it was your husband who said 'unfortunately', it DOES sound like you've married your father!

Did your father say that in the heat of a big argument? I mean, no excuse even if he did but at least it would put it into better perspective?

6. "I found a un wrapped condom in our wheelie bin and our son as used them as he as got a girlfriend. My husband got sterilized 17 years ago but how do I know its not from my husband? Why was it still in the bag if our son had bought it? I feel to embarrassed to ask our son so how do I find out the truth?"

I guess what you're getting at is whether the condom was intended as STD avoidance rather than contraception, correct? That I don't know.

Question: If it was unopened, what was the Use By date? If you don't know - is it still there / can you check?

Question: If your husband were straying or actively attempting to, would he be stupid enough to dispose of the evidence where you of all people were highly likely to come across it?

Question: Is the wheelie bin en route between where your husband parks his car and the front door?

What else have you noticed in terms of changes in his behaviour, appearance, demeanour, time-keeping, etcetera?

Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 26 2015 at 12:21
Member since: 14 April 2014
He did say unfortunately he had a picture of me in hid wallet years ago I know I have married my father. We have been together 23 years married 19 and years ago he said it would be nice to renew our vows when we got to 10 years we didnt and he said its because things happened, probably all the arguing and wondering if we should divorce. He hasnt really changed his appearance or cut down on food but he does get home late once a week. Says it's because he as to travel far hes a sales man and the traffic coming back. We had a day out at weekend he toom photos of us both and me alone and u know its only because of what he said last week saying if we must. Still says it was a joke and cant we have a joke anymore. He said no one knows what the future holds and all I wanted him to say was, I hope you and me will be together and grow old together, he didnt now im not going to commit to us and look after myself and see no future of us now so I will just plan my future for me
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 26 2015 at 18:00
Member since: 14 April 2014
I want to add that a couple of years ago i found a email from a swingers site, he said his email was hacked and he isnt that sick. It said that he was into men and women and a and o and i felt sick when i found it and it showed a photo of a penis and it looked like my husbands and it was taken on the drivers side because it showed a sterling wheel and with my husband bring a sales man he drives alot.Now i will never know for sure if it was him and i have aways thought is he bisexual or gay and married me to hide what he is. Years ago when the kids were young i was going to leave him he begged me not to he said now i wished i had because i had my family around me then now i have no one. Even whn we got married he didnt get down on one knee nor was there any romance he just said, we might of well get married and stuoid me ssidm no you dont mean it, we had been engaged 4 years. I cant believe i didnt ask for a better proposal from him and know he must of married me because we had two kids by then and he wanted it to look good, i should never of married him.
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 27 2015 at 16:46
Member since: 14 April 2014
Any replies?
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 27 2015 at 17:21
Member since: 19 August 2014
All of that does, now (when put together with the concrete and compelling circumstantial) sound highly suspect, yes. But considering you say you knew even at the time that you should never have married him - do you even CARE about whether or not it's finally led to him scraping the maritally amoral barrel by going shopping elsewhere? (I say 'shopping' because that tacky photo sounds very much like the sort of profile pic one would post on an equally tacky marrieds-wanting-to-cheat or gay short-term liaisons website.) Surely they're just details whereas you've already identified the crux problem as PRODUCES these and more symptoms, i.e. too much like dad?

Four years is a long (what-should-be) test drive. Are we to presume that, the kids coming so soon into the picture, you were too busily distracted with nappies and such to meet those early misgivings and suspicions head-on? Or did you feel that with having young kids you were now trapped and under maternal-protective pressure to make the best of things and, aided by his begging you to reverse your decision to end it, too easily swayed by an initial show of putting his money where his mouth was?

Why at that point or any other since didn't either or the pair of you think to seek marital counselling? Or did you work quite well as 'mum and dad' and didn't even have time to recognise the romantic failure aspect (until the kids started to near independence)?

You're definitely not mad or paranoid, though, because (aside from anything else including the concrete) when one is satisfied and happy with one's relationship, the response to whether you'll stay 'til death' as a couple is just plain 'yes' and/or 'of course!', simply because the fact that unforeseeable events could somehow cast the relationship asunder is a tacit given as applies to ALL couples and thus needs no mentioning. That he did and keeps doing so, when judged within this now global context of misdemeanours and suspect scenarios and other comments, changes its nature from a sign of insecurity to shiftiness in terms of misgivings of his own thus a loathness to reaffirm his sense of commitment. So were I to hazard a guess, I would say that he's less trying to augment whatever's missing from outside the relationship by bringing in a secret third party than trying, increasingly as things go from bad to worse, to slowly and as seamlessly as possible move further and further away and out of it, but that it DOESN'T meanwhile deter him from having some away type fun in the process. Do you agree or do you think, no matter his hurtful responses to your request for reassurances, he'd stay put if he could long-term have his cake and eat it?

You can't, however, claim to have had no influence on his non-committal noises because, as I've already pointed out, your question itself would have struck as the opposite of reassuring. However, that's not to say that a happier, more confident man wouldn't have put his own feelings and pride aside when recognising with concern and alarm that the nature of your question itself was a request for reassurance for YOU. Saying THAT, however, if your past attempts to gain reassurance have likewise presented as signs of huge cause for concern out of a lack of tact and diplomacy then this could suggest a whole web of negativity and demoralisation that, unbeknownst to him as well as you, just needs skilful unravelling, thread by thread, in order to get back a semblance of unity and romance. But have things gone too far now for that?

If I put a loaded and cocked gun to your head and said, 'Divorce or Counselling - CHOOSE - NOW!' (and failure to make a choice carried the same risk) - which would it be?

But before you answer that, answer this (because it's a typical blockade): Do you even NEED a family around you to break out of (or make good with the aid of a counsellor) a marriage that for too long has proven highly dissatisfactory to you AND, seemingly, to him?

What renegotiations did you strike that time you'd decided to ship out before he went and begged you to reconsider? With WHAT (singular or plural) did he manage to persuade you round? And how long did it take for him to (I heavily presume) slide back into old habits?

Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 27 2015 at 17:22
Member since: 19 August 2014
PS: Yes, sorry...I was typing my response when you typed your prompter. Apologies for the delay, it's been one of those extra-hectic weeks. Things have eased up a bit today, though, so I should be able to respond faster from now on.
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 28 2015 at 08:34
Member since: 14 April 2014
I cant remember if I did strike out any renegotiations with him. I know I told him to stop looking at porn but he didn't. He wanted to hear a song on the tv last night called shes gone by Willie nelson. He said he liked the music to it, I feel this could be a song for another woman he knows or known. Could I be wrong?
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on May 28 2015 at 08:40
Member since: 14 April 2014
I want to say as well that he sent me a text message last week to say he really wanted to make it work with us the day before this we had been arguing. I thought maybe he was guilty and this is why he sent it because he had cheated.
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 28 2015 at 19:01
Member since: 19 August 2014
Okay, then, so you did set conditions but he broke them and.... then what? Nothing? That's why it didn't work. Empty threats never do with men, they take whether anyone's serious about something from their ACTIONS.

But listen... Here I am trying to address the crux problem and how to act in response whilst you keep harking on about the mere details and symptoms. This isn't a criticism, it's an observation, one that's indicative of your not being nearly ready to take the bull by the horns.

Best you get it all out of your system first, then.

The sudden interest in the Willie Nelson song isn't clear-cut enough as evidence. For all you know, the song is his commentary over you and he (hence why he ensured you sat through it). Not to say, however, that it isn't a contrived act meant purely to keep you placated in terms of his appearing to likewise want to save the marriage. Who's to say?

Same goes for the text message, possibly. Could you type it here, verbatim or near-as-damnit in case I might be able to tell which?

Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 29 2015 at 16:01
Member since: 19 August 2014
Just so's we're clear, ITS ME, (in case this is why you've not yet responded) I mean get it out of your system HERE ...so that you can subsequently think straighter and not overlook so many of my probing questions. If you go back and re-read you'll see you missed quite a lot of them.
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 2 2015 at 00:27
Member since: 14 April 2014
If you put a gun to my head I would say divorce because we have had counselling but its easier said then done when you love someone which I do but I also have a lot of hatred for him. Over the years he as stayed away so often with work then coming back to a nice tidy home everything in its place and so many times I wished I wasnt there when he got back or wished I had had the guts to of left him years ago. I feel I've been taken for a fool and wherever he goes stupid me will still be here when he gets home. He thinks treating me to a night away is the greatest thing he as done and thinks hes giving me the world. When he gets to stay away with work he says, how often does he get to stay away like hes entitled to it and he deserves it. He forgets the five days here five days there hes had over the years. I will stupidly end up like my mother always saying she would leave my father but doing nothing about it because of fear but deep down wanting to go
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 2 2015 at 00:34
Member since: 14 April 2014
I want to add that he treated me to a night away and was being really nice because he is staying away with his boss and I know its the only reason he done it so I wouldn't go on about him staying away again. Have I been a mug all these years still being here when he returns and him thinking im a fool when he can come and go whenever he likes?
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 2 2015 at 19:22
Member since: 19 August 2014
You've HAD counselling already, oh, I see! Crap counsellor? Or perfectly good counsellor but uncooperative and deceitful customer half?

" but its easier said then done when you love someone which I do but I also have a lot of hatred for him. "

TELL me aboud id! Does 'invasion of the body [his] snatchers' go a long way to describing your shock and disillusionment?

Okay, so what I'm getting here is that you *want* to do the right thing by yourself in order to be true to yourself and what you always thought you'd be capable of doing (in terms of how to react) but are finding it nigh-on impossible.

Yes. What's your problem with this? Was Rome built in a day?

Do understand that this is a personal process of yours that you're going through - no matter that it involves this man - and that processes (albeit can be speeded up by those in the know) have to take their own sweet time, and that a process consists of distinct stages? Well, now you do.

As for me, all I wanted to know was what you WANTED. Now I do. So now we know where you're headed / what you're working towards, don't we. That trajectory of yours as is guaranteed to hit his radar MIGHT in actual fact provide the catalyst for a complete turn-around on his part...however, you mustn't focus on that because you can't walk in the direction of healing and self- and life-improvement when all the time you're hoping to be pulled off and back; it won't work: one leg will be pulling ahead whilst the other dithers or pulls you back. Result: going nowhere but back and forth on the spot. And you've had ENOUGH of that, right? (Right!)

Er, no you have NOT been taken for a fool. HE'S the fool (if he is cheating, I mean). There is NOTHING foolish about giving someone your love and trust, that's what you're SUPPOSED to do (certainly if you want a relationship worth having). What you're NOT supposed to do, as the recipient, is MISUSE it. HE'S THE FOOL - GET IT RIGHT AND DON'T FORGET IT. He's foolish/confused/whatever and because you joined your lives as one, you're involved and feeling its full effects. So what you need to do is get OUT of his crosshairs.

This, cheating or behaving in ways that convince your partner you are, is just another form of bullying (can you see it?). You're a victim and need to learn how to cease being one. That's not rocket science but you have to allow yourself to become ready for it.

If he's NOT cheating then you have a different scenario to deal with, one that basically comes down to you being forced to live a lifestyle you obviously can't hack and your partner refusing to care or do whatever's in his power to ensure YOUR happiness, not just his own.

You need to let your 'backroom boys' (subconscious) do their jigsaw thang in putting together all the obvious and almost imperceptible little pieces until you can see what case you're dealing with here - [a] committing adultery or [b] being a pompous, over-entitled a*se, basically, or [c] being SUCH a pompous a*se and for so long that you wish he WERE cheating (for obvious reasons).

Time (and venting). Don't force yourself, just keep spilling, ranting and getting the overflow out of your system until it all goes PING!

What else does he do that makes you feel unloved/cheated-on, etc? Have a good puke, go on! :-)

Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 3 2015 at 12:55
Member since: 14 April 2014
He checks his phone when im out of room goes off it if I enter the room, he shut down his laptop when I sat next to him, no hugs when he gets home from work, a little peck on cheek. Do I cheat on him and live with him til our final youngest leaves home and live in a toxic marriage with lies and cheating going on?
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 3 2015 at 13:08
Member since: 14 April 2014
He stayed out last night with his boss and because I once saw a message from a swingers site on his gmail which he denied he was on im wondering if his boss is one because they meet up alot or even meeting someone else and I would know no better. Its killing me to think he is bisexual and makes me sick to think he could be hiding behind the wife like alton john done
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 3 2015 at 19:41
Member since: 19 August 2014
Okay, yes, that sort of repeated laptop/mobile behaviour in tandem with a withdrawing or diluting down of gestures of affection is definitely suggestive of a man cheating when viewed against everything else.

I wouldn't recommend trying to live with it because it'll knock the confidence and then self-esteem RIGHT out of you and far quicker than you'd imagine. Nor would I, you cheating back; again, the self-esteem....you'd just be ruining your own perception of and trust in yourself...basically lowering yourself to sleazebag level (and you have to LIVE with yourself, remember?). Plus, once you CROSS that line....

Wouldn't you rather have your next relationship as a freely available (and self-liking, proud) woman so that the relationship had the room to grow and develop properly?

Yes, his boss could be a cheater, ...misery loves company and all that, and cheaters feel less like sh*theads if they can say, 'But everyone else does it?!' Yeah, well...You didn't MARRY everyone else, nor marry him because you thought he was not so bad for a scumbag, did you.

Listen... This is NOT the nadir of your life despite it always feels too convincingly like it is at the time. This is just a painful doorway to a better life and relationship (think pain of childbirth that ends in a bundle of joy). It's either going to be a perfectly good baby or a SUPER-BABY! This is not a Lose situation (unless you make it so).

However, we can talk about that another time...first thing's first: What about the obvious option of confronting him with this list of suspicious activities? Or hiring a private detective so that you can put your mind at rest one way or the other? At least then you'd be in a position to decide which course of action to take next, wouldn't you, whether that be you biding your time for the sake of your youngest whilst insisting you and he convert it to an open marriage? Or insisting he behave himself while doing likewise or the marriage gets it (and you, half the marital wealth and assets)? Or trying another counsellor (one with experience of cheaters AND preferably of being cheated on)? Or even visiting a solicitor just to see what would be what 'if'? Or insisting on a formal separation? LOTS of options...

People always fear visiting a solicitor as if it represents a point of no return. Rubbish. In actual fact, 99% of them come out feeling MUCH better, MUCH more strong, sorted and confident about what and how to do, etc., and saying, 'Jesus, WHY DIDN'T I DO THAT SOONER?!'. You need that confidence injection, I think, whether or NOT you then later go on to wanting to start the procedure. And I think he needs to WITNESS that confidence injection with its No Nonsense side effect (even if he hasn't a clue where it's come from).

Are you incapable of calling for a divorce or even putting one foot onto DivorceLand territory like that unless you have something very concrete with which to justify yourself and your intention? Because, even if he WEREN'T committing adultery he's still in too many other ways not behaving in line with the marital contract both legal and tacit, right? And to the point where you've had enough with a capital E?

Or what are you saying - that you still want him if he still wants YOU but if secretly he doesn't want you nor has done for years, that's it?

Oh, and what happened to the venting, then? That wasn't venting, that was just calmly citing. Don't you feel like screaming and throwing things? Or have you DONE all that already (or think you have)?

I'm talking RANTING...calling him horrid names if you need to. As long as you can insert asterisks in the expletives, I'm giving you carte blanche to talk like a monster who's cage has just been toppled over, let alone rattled. Don't you want to make use of that free-license, not exactly common opportunity?

Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 4 2015 at 00:46
Member since: 14 April 2014
I have been to the solicitors in the past cost alot of money as I cant get legal aid he knew I went, i came home and found him watching a beatles dvd thats how much it bothered him I went also I have shouted but not as much as him Anyway the latest is I told him its over I want a divorce and I hope he wasnt coming home tonight. He said he now excepts it and its what I always wanted and he will have to look for somewhere to stay. He as stayed out I haven't a clue were.He texted the kids to say he was staying out again. My son said he got a text message but could not understand it from his dad about staying out again my son asked if he will be back tomorrow I said yes but I was lying as I havent a clue, The kids dont know I asked for a divorce. I dont even miss him but they do.
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 4 2015 at 14:25
Member since: 19 August 2014
Assuming you're a Brit: why on earth would you need legal aid?

But, anyway, WOW, you move fast?!

Sulking out of resentment or not, he shouldn't be using the kids as messengers with information intended for you and which has nothing to do with them (he's their dad, not their husband). The fact he's texting them with information he'd normally send to you, speaks volumes to them in terms of why he'd feel he had to do that.

Now he's forced you to have to be honest with your kids in explaining either that you and he have had a long-running argument come to a head as means you need a period of separation or that you and he have decided you can no longer live in the same house together due to long-unresolved issues. Don't give them the information all in one hit, it'll be too much, no matter how grown up they otherwise are. Where you and your husband are concerned, they are KIDS and always will be in that context. Feed them manageable little kid-sized bites so that they can adapt gradually. After all, you don't have a crystal ball and for all you know this could be a giant catalyst to his cleaning up his act followed by you and he finally tackling and rectifying all the problems that led you and he to this place. What's important for now is that you've finally put your money where your mouth is when it comes to saying, 'I am NOT having this, I refuse to live my life like this!...and now you know you should have taken me seriously before now and listened'.

One step at a time.

And now, tell me why you're blanking those parts in my post that deal with you letting out all that banked-up emotion? Do you not feel safe enough, now, to take that cork OUT?

Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 5 2015 at 17:57
Member since: 14 April 2014
Please delete this topic asp
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 5 2015 at 18:32
Member since: 19 August 2014
Sorry, WHY are you asking that this thread be deleted?
Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 6 2015 at 09:55
Member since: 14 April 2014
I dont want my husband to see it and just want it deleted asp please
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 6 2015 at 13:27
Member since: 19 August 2014
Why only now has it occurred to you and even suddenly begun to bother you that your husband might see it?

Anyway, HOW would your husband see it and, even if he did, how on earth would he know it was you rather than one of the millions of wives out there in your exact boat with even the same or uncannily similar ins and outs going on?

Sorry, but you're going to have to do more than that to convince administration when the original thread-initiation stated very firmly and unmissably in Red the following condition to which the act of starting a thread demonstrates compliance:

"Please Note: Information you add to this site may be beneficial to future visitors who are facing similar problems. For this reason, forum threads and posts are only deleted at our discretion. Use of your account signifies acknowledgement and agreement to this condition."

I can advise you better only if and once you can explain your reasons in full regarding what the problem is / why you think you have a case for deletion, given what I've just pointed out.

Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 7 2015 at 01:28
Member since: 14 April 2014
Leave it as it is because now I have a new problem to add. I dont know if my husband fancies my sons 20 year old girlfriend. She rang our son at 11 at night to be taken home and our son asked if he could have a lift to meet her in town, my husband couldn't wait to take him like he as given them lifts together many of times and one time he thought our sons girlfriend was going to our house and was going to give her a lift before he realised it wasnt her. We saw a topless pic of our sons girlfriend when our son showed us his trip snaps but obviously forgot he had a naked one of his girlfriend on his phone. My husband quickly gave the phone back but I noticed my husband had looked twice at some pics of her on photos printed out before hand. His he going through a mid life crisis, is he a dirty old perverted man? I feel sick thinking he could fancy someone old enough to be our daughter who is the same age.
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 7 2015 at 12:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
I was going to leave it as it was anyway out of not believing you do have a valid reason for deleting this, other than having swung from wanting out and then back to wanting in and panicking unnecessarily in case that (illusion of a) decision got taken out of your hands should he have seen this, followed by now having swung back again because of this latest event. "He loves me, he loves me not, he loves me...". Rot, no he does not. (I even made it rhyme for you, look.) He, going by his behaviour, obviously started to lose interest in pleasing you and making you happy a long time ago; far longer than you realise...whereby now - now that he's finally already had that first chance to dally with someone else, thereby breaking the last of his mental and emotional attachment towards you and the romantic part of the marriage, i.e. is free of you - we see the result. And one aspect is post-liberation craziness. You see it rife on dating websites in newly separated and/or newly cheating men: anything with a pulse is fair game and sod age and league; meat is meat and conquest is conquest...an all-round HUGE ego boost. So yes, I don't doubt he 'fancies' even a 20-year-old, even one technically off-limits. I mean, it's not this man hasn't already proved that taboos are no obstacle, is it. So right now (and probably for a long while to come) he doesn't care about you OR your son, not compared to himself and his own gratification. "Me, me, me, me, ME!".

What I'm saying I'm seeing is: someone at some point back but relatively recently has given him the impression he's actually very sexy, a good catch, whatever (but certainly sexy) and the power's gone completely to his head, having him believing he could quite possibly manage to attract or bag anyone or anything (- not bad for a man who'd been thinking he was past it!). Again, not uncommon stuff. However, that doesn't eliminate the possibility (ref giving son a lift and him wanting a chance to ogle her) of his having been eager for the side opportunity to talk in secret to or text with a mistress or side candidate well outside of your radar range.

But, IT'S ME, you *still* haven't answered my questions, including in particular WHY it is you aren't venting. ..Although I think I see why, now. Obviously you're still nowhere near being decided about putting your foot down all the way and meaning it, no matter WHAT you type to indicate that you've actually chucked him out. How could the man possibly respond to a need for a lift unless he were back inside the marital home. So you did not chuck him out, or else didn't believe you when you said you wanted a divorce, hence came home again...which you clearly let him do, meaning that foot-putting-down exercise was not only a complete waste of your emotional energy but has meant from his POV that this and all future ultimatums should not be taken seriously.

That he came back does *not* mean he wants YOU back. He just doesn't want to have to go to all the major hassle of finding somewhere else to live, etc.

So do you think you could stop torturing yourself and just accept, now, that although still PHYSICALLY there, your husband's HEART AND MIND 'left the building' months back, and start thinking and acting and planning accordingly? You can't 'stop the tide' by busying yourself constantly with detective work over the minute details and mere symptoms, it'll get you nowhere except more and more worked up and even LESS capable of thinking straight.

Life a mess
Reply from
SUNSHINELOVE
on Jun 13 2015 at 01:01
Member since: 14 April 2014
I know he doesnt give a f..k about me and in most ways i dont with him. You know i long for someone to knock on my door and take me away from this life ive had with him but i know it won't happen, i feel so trapped alone unhappy but i can't escape it. Ive thought of taking my life but i havent the guts and i cant do that to my kids. I count how many paracetamol tablets i would need im that bad. I cursed the day i met him cursed i had kids to him and that he is the father. I dream of packing my suitcases and leaving a note to say, i finally done it and left you now, now its me time. You asked me why i can't get legal aid well i am British but havent they stopped it. I saw a solicitor about two years ago about divorce for 15 minutes free then i would of had to paid. Im having him live here and most of the time its because of the children so not to upset them even thou they are 21 18 17 not babies i know. I keep thinking when the youngest goes im sure we will definitely be over then i will tell him to f off out.things you have to do when kids are still around for appearances.
Life a mess
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 13 2015 at 16:00
Member since: 19 August 2014
Know what I'm hearing? This: I am hapless and helpless so unless someone intervenes, this is my lot.

Er, hello??? What are we talking here - you having basically moved out from mum and dad's into a quasi mum and dad's? Are you incapable of taking the Motown attitude of, Got along without you before I met you, gonna get a along without you now? Did you NOT get along without him once? Are you leg-less in a chair and need to be WHEELED out of that sham of a marriage?

How illogical is it to claim you're incapable of (if need be) divorcing him and thereafter living independently yet not so incapable that you can't do the far harder thing of taking your own life? Or is that just emotional overwrought-ness talking?

Seriously, are you hearing yourself?

As for the legal fees: YOU'RE MARRIED. YOU DON'T *NEED* LEGAL AID! HIS CASA - TU CASA, HIS WEALTH AND ASSETS - TU WEALTH AND ASSETS! That's what marriage means! Find a solicitor out of the PLENTY who don't take a dime until the court orders the transfer of funds, etc., into your account!

Now to the 'kids': Appearances? APPEARANCES? Let me TELL you about appearances:

YES, it's upsetting for them whatever their age because they will always, when in context of you, be kids and you mum-and-dad. But - fact! - it is FAR more harmful when presented with that seeming 'rock and hard place' for kids to have to habitually soak up vibes and acts that all translate to this: Marriage means you can choose either be the cheating basstud or the put-upon victim-doormat. Yeah, great lesson. Methinks it's needs a flourish called, 'THINK AGAIN, KIDDIEWINKS, AND WATCH 'N LEARN!'. It's called, taking no sh*t, particularly when NOT taking sh*t is an option that has firmly been closed off to you...aka, how to love and stand up for yourself as if you MATTER!

According to you, what the heck have you got to LOSE? You're ALREADY miserable, and that's even if it were TRUE that equal or worse misery awaits you (oh no it does *not*!). An end to misery is what awaits, be it in the form of Just Better or I've Found Heaven! Can you even WAIT until the youngest goes, considering you're already in trouble?

I think not. SAVE YOURSELF AND YOUR SANITY WHILE YOU SO EASILY CAN. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your kids and your future grandkids.

Discussion closed - why not create your own thread?