Silent break up...
I broke up with my fiancee. I am 33 and he is 35. We were together for 6 years and the last 2 we were engaged. I was the one that left the house because the last months he was has pressure from his job and also he was telling me that I was putting pressure on him. He didn;t want to talk with me and when I was trying to make conversations he was telling that I was nagging and he was leaving.
The day that I left I was calling him to bring some stuff home.I called him around 3 times and he didn;t pick up the phone and the fourth time that he answered it, when I asked him were are you he started screaming at me, then he came home he broke up my mobile and he continue to scream and telling me now I will see how you are going to call me. He made me really upset and I told him that it is enought and I am leaving. He didn;t do anything and he left from the house. I took some stuff and I left and came to my parent’s house.
That happened on 26th of May. After 5 days he deleted me from fb and put on that he is single. He didn;t try to contact me and I didn;t contact him as well. After 17 days he came at my parent;s garden and he left bags with my clothes and other stuff, and he called my brother to tell him that he left at the garden my stuff.Again he didn’t contact me.
Now after 19 days we haven’t talk to each other and none of us made an effort to contact, I am wondering if he decided that it is over and he doesn’t care, and if he was waiting for me to leave from the house. I cannot undertsand how is possible after so many years that he doesn’t care and he don’t want even to talk with me. Please help me…..
Crikey, it's a good job he hadn't had kids with you yet, isn't it, if he's so incapable of spinning only two plates simultaneously just because one is a bit wobbly and needs an extra few spins? Pressure? He wouldn't know pressure if it upped and bit him on the nose!
Screaming at you and breaking your mobile phone? How old is he - 10?
Listen, I get that breaking up with anyone is fairly traumatic when it affects everything comfortable you know, but it sounds like this little boy in grown-up-man's suit ultimately did you a favour. In other words, it does appear to be over but if it's not, if this is just a childish, drawn-out tantrum on Little Jimmy's part, a tantrum so unbefittingly over-the-top that he indeed *doesn't* care about the major consequence (losing you and his supposed main goal), I suggest you decline all and any later attempts to persuade you to reconcile.
Think about the position you'd be in right now had you and he made kids and a home (and bills) together. Is that the type of marriage you want?...where the guy keeps storming out and breaking up with you and staying away for a minimum 3 weeks any time any confrontation is called for over whatever he merely deems is a contentious issue?
Listen, it's quite simple: once he saw it that he was 'safe', i.e. you well and truly bagged with an engagement ring, that's when he started to properly relax and show his true colours. You LIKE those colours do you? Enough to want to commit the rest of your life to them? Because I call them Regular Headache coloured.
Course, there's always the possibility that matey had been cruising behind your back (4 years to get engaged is a bit telling) and found some promising replacement candidate so cooked up the excuse that his job was getting difficult to explain his all-round distancing and reluctance to sort problems, etc., and your subsequent reaction (panicking), and that your piling on the 'pressure' scuppered his secret plan to seamlessly lilypad-leap from his relationship with you to a new one with her? That would certain fit with the whys and wherefores of his total behaviour to-date, wouldn't it? It would also explain beautifully why the seeming over-reaction flourish of DELETING YOU FROM FACEBOOK SO THAT YOU CAN'T SEE HIM ADDING HIS NEW (COUGH!) FRIEND. And the 'invasion of the body-snatchers' behaviour, i.e. him behaving like you now mean nothing and never did.
Click? Click-click-clickety-click, PINGGGG! ?
As far as I know there is not another person in his life. I think that I would have undertand it. Also it was his decision to get engaged I never said anything to him about marriage and children. He was the one that was telling that he wants a baby etc. And especially the days before me to leave the house he was asking me when we will have a baby etc. In the past we had another argument and he did the same thing with the fb and later he told me that he did it because he knew that it will bother me.. He is selfish and he plays mind games with me during our arguments because he told me that we are doing whatever I want and I am top of him....and that this is unfair since he is the one that is working and brings the money. I am unemployed but I have a month income. All these things started the period that his job is not going so well and also from the pressure of his family to move and stay with tthem so we will not have to pay for the rent...I don;t know what to think,,,whatever it is it is not right to behave this way to the person that you were sharing your ife for so many years. I feel very bad because I was waiting at least to come and talk to me.Now i feel like he was wating from me to leave and now feels ok and continue his life.....
24 days after I left the house and a week after he brought my stuff he contacted me for the fisrt time now by a txt in which he was writing next week I will bring you some of your furniture.....
Cheers for the clarification...puts a different light on it all.
"Also it was his decision to get engaged"
I know. That was my point. Dragged his feet a bit, didn't he (by today's standards, I mean)? But that needn't be a negative thing, it could indicate he thought it through properly as opposed to most people today who rush in and then later regret it?
But, listen, it doesn't gel, him asking you when you'd both have a baby to only days later be saying he wanted out. So - HMMM, I repeat, HMMMMMMM... Methinks this is just a mantrum of the particularly egotistical and power-bidding variety, with his threat of delivering your furniture meant to make you believe it's over unless you fold. Methinks this guy isn't practised at saying sorry. I mean - why next week? Why not tomorrow or already? Huge clue.
I think you're right, this must be a Power Struggle stand-off. And in order to increase the pressure on you to be the one to fold and back down, he's deleted you from FB to deliberately make you naturally *suspect* he's got another bird on the go (because that's what men who do do (be-do)). I imagine that's because he returned to the house after calming down a tad, only to find you gone...which would have been a huge shock that, him having a big ego, would have just cranked him back up again but 10-fold....and hence, here is the result - him playing Chicken with you because his pride won't let him back down for basically having thought he could take his woes and stress out on you like you're his personal punching bag.
My advice is WAIT, DO NOTHING. He can't stay in Prat Mode forever. At least, in human history no sane man ever has (aside from your despotic world leaders, of course..but then that just proves my point about 'sane'
Meantime, what did you reply to his text with?
PS: "whatever it is it is not right to behave this way to the person that you were sharing your ife for so many years."
LOADS of men turn into prize tw*ts during power-based arguments. Get used to it. It's that or become a lesbian, I'm afraid. But then you have the issue of PMT...times TWO! (RUN!!!, lol)
PS: Edit to first post: Little boy in a grown-up-man suit WHENEVER EMOTIONALLY OVER-ROUSED.
I didn't reply to his message at all. I didn't know what to write...Also I am sure that he will be waiting a reaction from me but I decided to don't give it to him... It is the first time that I am saying to him that I am leaving and I am doing it and also it is the first time that I don't react to his actions. Usually if he was doing somthing like text me or delete me from fb (it is not the first time that he did it) I will be calling him back, or text him and I will be trying to solve it. So my reaction is new to him...I don't know if he plays games but I also think that his ego is so huge that he is not thinking that with his actions he destroys everything... Maybe he thinks that I left him but he he didn't think why I left or if he could do something to talk with me and find a solution or at least say that it is over...
P.S: I also have the keys from the house and till now he didn't ask them back....
Do you think that I must reply to his text? If yes what I should reply?
Why would you rely on a TEXT for such an important issue?
Big adults TALK. You need to insist that he meet you and face-to-face, get all this resolved.
He sounds like he has a short fuse. Be sure there are other people around.
Ι know that big adults talk and I was waiting from him to talk but he is not.... He is doing all these things without to want to talk with me.... I don't know what I can do and how I can make him to talk... I just feel hurt from the situation and the way that it goes....
(Ignore that spam from LIZZY123, it'll be removed anon)
I expect normally he *would* talk rather than text, but this isn't 'normally', is it. Not ONLY have you two had a humdinger but it's on the back of months of work stress and that equals total overreaction style blowout. Normal & (I presume) Nice guy has 'left the building' for the time being. You're just going to have to wait until his emotions and ego settle back down.
You do have an option in the meantime, though, you're not powerless. I mean, one of the ideals is do nothing, yes, but (and you know him better on this score) it's never WHAT you do but the way that you do it that counts so... If you did want to say SOMETHING so as to  help him calm down faster,  avoid working him back into a lather through being ignored yet  boxing clever in terms of failing to give him the satisfaction he's after (over the effect he's hoping his sulky stand-off is having) whilst sending the subtle signal that you're calm and approachable (should he want to behave like a brave man and do it properly) AND end up having made this stand-off not worth *his* while (so that he thinks twice next time), what I personally would do is just send the following tiny response:
'Sorry, not ignoring you, just too upset at the mo.'
That ought to piss nicely on his firework as well as make him feel like a right cad.
I just called him but he didn't answer.....
Tomorrow it is his birthday.do you think is a good idea to text him to wish? and if yes what you think that I should write?
what I personally would do is just send the following tiny response:
'Sorry, not ignoring you, just too upset at the mo.'
That meant text, not call.
So WHAT if it's his birthday? He should have thought about that before 'offering' to return all your stuff, shouldn't he. You? You (taking everything at face value) don't even know whether it's your JOB any more to wish him happy birthday, do you, thanks to him.
Listen, this is about damage-limiting, not using his birthday (as if a bloke cares!) as your excuse to do what YOU said you would always do in the past but were determined not to this time.
How is what you always used to do the in the past working out for ya SO far?
But you've already tried to actually call him and got no response. So now you can't even send that text because the ball's firmly in HIS court.
According to you (and I agree), you haven't done anything wrong, you were merely unprepared to remain being the victim of his moodies. So act like it, wait for HIM to apologise or not.
he just texted me that : I will announce that we are officially split and everything is ok...
I will announce. Not I have. I will (I'm going to). Yeah, why do today what you can put off until tomorrow? [smirk]
He's playing hard-ball. This is now an acrimonious game of EGO POKER.
I imagine it's because he was used to a predictable post-fight script (or, if you prefer, dance) in terms of what you'd usually do and how soon. So because this time you failed to follow it, he took that as a sign you secretly hadn't been as into him as you used to be and as insult added to injury. It was bound to happen, this reaction of his at a hugely disconcerting and unwanted change to the past screenplay and script. But as I say, you have to let them get it out of their system until they remember that they're NOT only 5 years old thus prohibited against using the home phone or driving a vehicle... and that just because you USED to always be the olive-branch profferer, that does not mean you intend to continue like that. He has a voice, he has dialling fingers, he is not a baby.
The question always is, was it insult too far as would take resentful acting-out into genuine It's Over territory. For that you have to look at the *actions* and then compare them to when a man is genuinely done (especially on the back of a secret run-up).
The biggest giveaway is the fact of his returning your stuff in dribs and drabs (within the whole package as includes upsetting texts) rather than in one fell swoop AND the fact that he seems to want control over it rather than the norm of just telling YOU to please turn up with a van within x weeks to take the entire lot away yourself. After all, if you two are supposedly over, what's your stuff got to do with HIM any more, why is HE responsible for despatching it like he's still your Number 1 helper-sidekick? So, to me, it smacks of his wanting to use this exercise as a slow series of (to his mind - return-) missiles.
The next biggie is the fact he'd admitted before how his behaviour, including FB deleting you, was all geared to upsetting you. He obviously thought he was safe to confess by then because surely that last episode was the end to all such humdingers. So he clued you up. This means that THIS time he has to get the BIG guns out, i.e. change HIS prior pattern, too...just enough to convince, still/again (check!).
This whole production has obviously always worked beautifully for him with all past lovers (AND his pussyfooting, pandering, egg-shell-walking family and friends, going by the stubbornness of it) and is going to be a hard habit to break. But it only needs to be done ONCE, meaning, by the end it's worth it. If it doesn't work or backfires on you, that is simply your proof-positive that the guy was too much of an immature prat to hitch your wagon to on a permanent basis, meaning this whole debacle was Fate doing you a favour, giving you an out. Win/Win.
The first missile was meant to make you panic and do the usual contacting and olive-branch-ing. That not happening would have cranked him up and made him want to make the second missile more dramatic, impactful and hurtful...and so on re all subsequent ones (check!). He's been panicking with each non- or unexpected response, but blokes, particularly those with big egos and more testosterone than they can spend (particularly as he's not, note, had his usual sh*gs of late), convert that to the more 'manly' emotion of ANGER. The nastier they are, the more devastated (and h*rny) they are (check!). He apparently is not sleeping with anyone else.
This missile campaign the toddler-mantrum merchants do by making each bundle of stuff more serious and discomfiting in what it seemingly so ominously says than the last (*some* of your furniture - check!). If they run out of bundles before getting the reaction they want, next comes the trying to sound authentically like it is truly over and THEY DON'T CARE - "Whadevah!" - (check!) which obviously totally contradicts reality. Firstly, no-one gets over someone after 6 long years in the blink of an eye nor after 6 years' worth of investing their emotions, hopes, dreams, LIVES, fails to give a sh*t that it's over. Whomsoever tends to try THAT impression (check!) is the man who's furiously resentful, still, and acting purely on ego. Ego thinks that anger is the bedfellow of 'I don't like you any more and actually, never did (mleugh!)'. It doesn't have the sophistication to appreciate how you don't have to pretend you don't still LOVE the person despite angry and upset with them. Genuine It's Over says, I DO LOVE YOU, you know that, but the relationship really isn't working any more for me so I'm so sorry but I think it's best we go our separate ways (absent - check!). ...Well, a mature gentleman does, anyway (which is power-assisted by guilt and regret), whereas this guy has gone doolally from stress overload.
Another suspect action: if where he dumped the first lot of stuff was at your parents then why didn't he notify THEM? Why your brother? Or if he were going to tell your brother then why not take the stuff TO YOUR BROTHER'S? Too embarrassing to have to have contact atop of him having 'done a poo' on their lawn? Plus because they're more level-headed as well as experienced and savvie enough to see through his ruse from what he did and said and the way he said it and/or because they might use that to convince you to dump *him*? And - what? - he can properly tell your brother it's over / that your stuff's somewhere to be collected but not you? (Pff. This guy's an amateur.)
Plus, the aforementioned biggie: I've secretly been wanting out of this relationship, hence how I'm behaving now, does NOT enquire after whether and when the pair of you are going to make a baby just two days before the supposed break-up event. The man who does THAT is the one who's looking for a face-saving way of testing and gaining much-needed reassurance over whether you're still in it for keeps (because he knows darn well he's been behaving in ways that could have been kicking the love out of you).
The other thing is, where is the proper Dear Joan letter or phone call wherein he informs you calmly and with regret that it's over, thanks you for all the good times and bids you to take care? Because this isn't a man who's only dated you for a few months to a year and would be more likely to be so downright inappropriately cowardly and inept about it. He knows that 6 long years warrants a proper 'farewell' and that anything less than that would publicly prove him a giant a-hole. So where is it? Answer: nowhere.
Next: 26th May you supposedly broke up. If he'd WELCOMED the break-up according to the impression he's right now trying to paint, then he'd have deleted you from Facebook that very next day or the next ("we are over so I should update my FB to suit, where would be the point in any delay?"
and ALREADY/SIMULTANEOUSLY have contacted you about collecting your stuff (all of it). When it's truly over, you don't WANT to drag things out like that.
The overall point is, he is NOT acting like a man whose idea and desire this break-up is. He is REACTING (childishly and egotistically) (same thing), meaning, he thinks it's YOUR idea and desire, meaning, the battle is now in play between you and he when it comes to who is dumping whom, actually ("mleugh!"
. You just haven't fully realised what it is he's been reacting to, hence have been semi putting everything down to it being his own genuine and natural volition.
He's no doubt TELLING himself he now wants it over and that he'll indeed live with the parents, blah-blah, but that'll just be self-comforting, self-compensating talk, because his actions are giving him away.
Realise at this point that soon you WILL be able to make a clear, conciliations-initiation phonecall if you so wished, in line with the fact you're female hence DON'T have an ego so huge you stay mad for some ridiculously lengthy period nor are as petty to begin with, meaning you calm down and see sense a lot faster (like you're programmed to need to be capable of doing with your eventual highly testing and challenging children). The point was just not to do it so soon like you used to... to make this period HELL for him, not just you, so that he would in future have to think TWICE before waving his Sword of Damocles ("that's it, it's over!, that's it, it's over again!, that's it..." and repeat) and instead DISCUSS MATURELY any and all contentions whilst keeping his emotions in check. To make your partner live on a knife edge like that, scared to step even slightly left or right for fear of falling to her 'death', yourself secure in the knowledge that it won't actually kill the relationship because each time she's guaranteed to forgive and forget (because she always did), is, as you've already indicated, NOT ON! It's cruel and abusive. (That's Abuse-IVE, note, not, makes him AN abuser.)
But if he's the type who when it's big enough doesn't EVER (i.e. within an acceptable, relationship-respectful amount of time) calm down or back down then, again, you've dodged a bullet because NO WOMAN can raise her kids and get on with her daily grind properly with one, extra, BIG kid constantly giving her grief or intermittently huge and show-stopping grief like that.
So WHEN the time is right to make that call (which this time he'll no doubt TAKE) - assuming he doesn't beat you to it - you DON'T immediately take the apologetic position. You just gently, calmly, quietly say hi and what's going on, then?, blah-blah, because what you're merely doing is giving him the golden, face-saving opportunity to get to say a sheepish sorry the minute he can hear from the conversation that the climate is welcoming of such, indicating that said apology won't just get flung back in his already humiliated face.
You don't HAVE to call, though. You can be firm NOW about what you are prepared to tolerate or not in any permanent relationship and thereby force him to eventually fold (or not). That all depends on what he's like in Situation Normal...what I call the Dark-to-Light Ratio. If normally he's between 70 and 90% angel (for this length of tenure) and this/this type of situation is his only main character fault, then of course you don't want to throw the whole relationship away. That's up to you. But he is, himself, going to calm down and then remember YOUR positive sides (and the relationship's)...and then be too miserable wondering if he's lost you/it for good to be capable of generating any more hot steam.
You're having a late power struggle BECAUSE you've always rolled over too soon rather than nipped this bad habit of his in the bud once and for all. So now it's no longer a bud but a little thorn bush (lots of secateur-ing). See what a bid for the so-called "quiet life" gets you? A NOISIER LIFE.
Anyway, this is a great test of whether your or any relationship means more to him than his silly pride ergo whether he's grown-up enough to even be a marriage partner, let alone a father. So let's wait to see whether he's in temporary prat mode or whether the recent stress has simply brought to the surface what was always secretly lying beneath and waiting to slide out bit-by-bit until it became an all-round dominant feature.
Does that help?
BTW, and saying all of that, this latest text of his is obviously a giant button push to see whether you panic and drop your Iron Lady act and yet, in with it will be a genuine test of whether you CARE. He does need to know you still care or else where's his whole motivation to apologise in a bid to get back into the little row boat?
If you WERE to reply (because said Dark-To-Light ratio is normally impressive), then all I would recommend would be this emoticon AND NOTHING MORE:
That's it. Not even one character more.
There he is, thinking he's stealing YOUR dumping exercise (and angry because seemingly you could bring yourself to dump him in the first place) whereas here's you proving he's wrong-wrong-wrong. Talk about peeing on his firework?! However, it's just vague enough that it COULD equally mean, 'I agree but am sad about it'. He won't know which. INTRIGUE!!!! Men can't resist, they DETEST not knowing (hence contrive a conclusion, even the unwanted one). I mean, so do women. But men especially. Plus there's nothing wrong with showing you ARE sad. It doesn't stop you from playing poker IF THAT'S YOUR NORMAL GAME FACE (meaning, keep it consistent).
It's just a wee leg-up, one tiny encouragement. Whether you think he needs it, i.e. that you going all the way from typically being the olive-branch-er to The Iron Lady is just too much in one complete chunk to realistically expect him to manage, is up to you entirely. Hopefully now that I've painted the hidden, behind-scenes picture you can make that decision a rational rather than purely emotional (fear-based) one.
If he REPLIES? - the reconciliation game is obviously on and you can take it from there. But stay passive. Let HIM lead and direct. And keep your responses in proportion to what he 'puts in' - never too little, never too much. Because he's got to show you what he's made of, future father-wise.
I did a big mistake after he send me the txt...I called him an hour later and of course he answered my call... I was talking to him very calm. I said hello, how are you? and happy b'day for yesterday..He said I am ok thank you. Then I told him why you are sending me txt msgs and you are not coming and tell me whatever you want. He said that he haven't got anything to say, and since we cannot communicate let's announce that it is over. I told him that first of all ,all this period you didn't make an attempt to communicate and befoe any announcements the logical thing is to talk face to face and them tell the others. He said again we have nothing to say and people are asking what is happening with us. I said ok if they are asking you say whatever you want you don't need my permission. If you want to discuss anything with me you know were am I. Then he said again since we cannot find a solution we haven't got anything to say and I said to him whatever you think. And before I hang up the phone he told me to find a way and send him the keys of the house, and I replied you know where I am come to give you the keys and anything else that is yours. He didn't say anything and of course he didn't come..
P.S: you remember the txt that he is going to bring me ome furniture that he send on Friday, he didn't bring them yet but maybe he is going to do it now...
I think that I lost the game...
"of course he answered my call"
"He said I am ok thank you. Then I told him"
Now why didn't HE do the telling? What happened to Action Man and his taking the lead? Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.
"He said that he haven't got anything to say"
Oh, really? Well, he could have fooled you because he's been "saying" rather a lot lately, hasn't he.
"and since we cannot communicate"
Cheeky ucker. You know what this means, don't you? BECAUSE YOU (MEW-MEW) WEREN'T CALLING HIM and that in his mind equals a prohibition (or so he'd prefer it to mean, because that way he can continue being the helpless one who waits for you to act and decide every time you fall out).
"let's announce that it is over."
Lets. LOL. 'Please, mummy, should we?'. What - announce it's over?...maybe hire a stage and a microphone and make a real event of it? LOL What a crock.
"people are asking what is happening with us"
So? He could just say, I don't know yet because we've had a falling out. Nah. Loada balloney. That's meant to be emotional blackmail to make you take the olive-branch reins via your (he hopes) fear of 'what the neighbours might be saying' and wanting to make the so-called gossip stop.
"I said ok if they are asking you say whatever you want you don't need my permission."
Ah, but he DID, see. And you were supposed to prevent/disallow it. It was supposed to be your cue to beg, NOOOOOOOOO, DON'T say its over!!!!! So you weren't playing the game, were you. You're still too angry yourself, aren't you. Fairenoughski. You'll just have to go through this ruse of it being O-V-E-R for a bit longer.
But it's not. Because, note: We, We, We, We, WE. That's funny, I thought there WAS no 'we' any more? Curiouser and curiouser...
(This guy's so transparent I can even see what he had for breakfast!)
So here's where you're at: he first tried to get you to take up the reins. Then he handed you the reins. You handed them straight back. He handed them back to you. And you re-handed them to him again.
Liking your 'whatever you think' and (basically) 'I'm not your bloody secretary, come get them yourself' attitude, I must say.
Yep, COURSE he didn't come. Even the pygmies in deepest, darkest Borneo could have predicted that, LOL.
Nope, you didn't lose. You lost that one hand but instinctually-strategically in order to put you on track for winning the actual match. Nope, you dun GOOD, girl! You had a choice between giving him a wee leg-up or playing HARDER-ball and you chose the latter.
Now you just wait again. But at least this time you know he's not sat there happy that it's over or doing things to move on. It's all hot air as far as I can see. He's just out of ideas now that his old game-style has big-fat-FAILED.
Give him more time to sulk and kick his Teddy round the room. In the meantime, you have a freely gained 'Mancation' to enjoy!
PS: I can see why he took up this golden opportunity, though. One, it gave him a platform to have a damn good rant in order to poo out the banked-up stress (- something real and concrete rather than elusively ethereal to get upset over) and, two, it was an opportune moment to try to break you (as in tame you). You're obviously too confident, sassy, no-nonsense and sure of yourself and your convictions for him. You're a BMW sports and the most powerful machine HE'S ever driven is a Renault Clio. He feels a bit inadequate and like you're hard work.
I don't mean that in a negative 'high maintenance' way. But it seems you don't take 'crumbs' like a lot of women - it's obviously proper meat 'n two veg plus gravy for you or sod off. But if he's going to be spending the rest of his life with you he'll want to see whether he can have an easier time of it, be a bit lazier. You, clearly, have no such cushy Cruise Control.
GOOD! Can't have A1 perks for the rest of his life for B2 work, can he.
(Doesn't stop certain types trying, though. Always worth a try or two (or three or four, LOL).)
Thank you for your reply.. I also think that he texted me in order for me to react because in everything he did he saw no reaction from me and he is not used at it. He knows that when I am becoming angry I am fighting the same time. First the fb-me no reaction, second my clothes- me no reaction, 3rd the text message about my furniture- me just called 2 days later but he didn't answer and now he sents this text in the morning when he wakes up... I am calling him but instead of begging him to change his mind the only think I am saying is that you have to say whatever you want straight to me and no through messages... I also told him that I cannot announce to my parents that you send me a text to announce our break up instead of coming here and say it to me, it's a shame for me..And he said oh you cannot say it to your dad? ok I will and I said to him ok go and tell him..he didn't... Then I said to him that I was with you in this relationship because I loved you, he stopped me and said..why what do you think that I was doing, it is the same for me? and I told him I don't know what you were doing, only you know it I am talking about myself so please don't interrupt me, so I was with you in this relationship because I loved you and repsected you and other things that there is no need to tell so I deserve whatever you have to tell me come and say it to me..and again he was saying you haven't to say anything since we cannot communicate... I am not sure if he plays games or he decided to finish it... but I also don't see him to make any move in order to fix things.. I don't know what he is thinking but what he asked is to announce our break-up... I am confused, very confused and I think that I am giving false hopes to myself that this man cares for me and don't want to destroy everything..
Up to where you've typed 'since we cannot communicate' - yes, that's precisely it (along with his other aims and agendas).
He's playing games alright. He might not be doing it consciously-deliberately, however. I reckon not, I think this is an habitual style of reaction of his to emotional flooding that no-body's ever spanked out of him.
Anger is the easiest emotion to deal with. Things like grief and sadness aren't so easy for some men to get their heads around. So you'll see them acting like you ran over their gran-gran in your monster struck (and reversed back over her for good measure). You're then left there thinking, What did *I* do?!
But now you KNOW what you "did": You "didn't". You "used to". But this time was different. Different has to mean, something's very wrong. It has to mean you don't love him like you used to (WHAAAAH!). So right now he (love + anger = ) hates you.
He'll make a move when he calms down. But you can't be TOO surprised now that you know the reasons behind all of this because from his point of view - he who was already stressy - it's been one missile of a response after another in fairly rapid succession, each making him (wounded and wrong-footed = ) angrier and angrier.
But that last, seemingly dismissive reiteration of his about how 'we' cannot communicate was just him being lost for anything new to say to reflect the new development in terms of the call itself as well as the subtle little magic words and phrases you managed to slip in. However, if you really think about it, what you were actually saying was 'When it is over, a man in your tenure of position should tell the woman to her face'. And to that, what he said in fact (in terms of the action) translates to, 'I'm not thinking about or focussed on The End, I'm merely concerned with the fact YOU weren't talking to ME...so that's why I did those things'. He's inadvertently leaking the fact that they were your punishment. Him teaching you a lesson for seemingly not having loved him enough to do your usual taking-it or chasing (how very dare you). Hence why he of course hasn't told your dad it's over and made it real or official. Because it's not.
From the whole sense of him I've been getting, I think it'll take him about 2-3 weeks to calm down, reflect and see sense again. But he might surprise you, considering said magic words and phrases. So DON'T waste this oh-so-precious Me Time worrying that you could be wrong or I could be wrong out of your not having told me right or forgotten to mention this/that salient point or sentence. This is not a unique scenario, it's a classic textbook power struggle fight (that, if you care to, you could read about in past threads in this and other forum archives): Thou shalt NOT take thy moodies any more out on ME / Yes, let me, if you loved me you'd let me (blah-blah) / No, because it hurts too much / Yes, and, well then, don't LET it / Not possible, so, no...
Really think about it: The fight was because you wouldn't stand for him taking his little moodies out on you. His response is [wait for it]...TO TAKE THIS EVEN BIGGER MOODY OUT ON YOU. He is right now, in-motion, asserting his "authoritah" over the right to take his moodies out on you without any complaint from you. Which if you think about it is just a more grown-up version of when the little schoolgirl says to the little schoolboy, 'Stop doing that!' and his instant reaction is to not only not stop doing it but do it but do it again, harder/bigger/louder. (Male arrogance and resistance, anyone?)
I know it's natural to waver between feeling confident and seeing through his act and, the next minute, highly anxious and bereft because the assumption of it being over looks suddenly so compelling again, but be aware, this is just a trick of a mind that utterly detests not knowing where it stands, so much so that it would rather decide it IS over than remain in this nightmareish limbo, waiting either for the guillotine to come down or to receive the King's reprieve. If it were over you would NOT be saying you don't know what he is thinking or what he's up to and nor would you be wavering between, "he loves me, he loves me not". So just mainly keep ignoring the blah-blahs and focus on all the giveaway actions.
But, hey, now you know what Ann Boleyn felt like. She was beheaded very soon after the king got told of her so-called, huge crimes against him and the monarchy (same thing). TOO soon. Positively RUSHED to the tower in record time by deliberately-conniving, privy council design. They, who wanted rid of her major political influence on the very influence-able Henry, knew that they had to strike whilst his iron was red hot ("hated" her) or else he'd [wait for it] inevitably calm down and see sense and just TALK to her and get it all sorted out. WHICH (calm down) HE DID. But by then it was of course too late. "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!", he went. (Cry her a river, Henry, you stupid, hot-headed, overly manipulable and dupeable t*sspot.)
Good job your bloke's not Henry The Eighth, then, isn't it? Good grief, I should cocoa!? LOL
Don't worry. But if you find you are (again), just re-read this thread or post it out of your system.
Now go dance around your living room to your fave tracks in your knickers and eat Crunchy Nut Cornflakes for supper. Lick the bowl afterwards if you want?
Because I am very tired of all this I decided to solve it now. I called him today and I asked him if he is going to come till Sunday at my city (it is the same city that his parents are staying and all this period the half of the days he was here) and he said to me no. Then I said ok so are you going to by home these days? (at the place we stayed together) he said no .Then he asked why what do you want? I said I want to discuss some things with you and also to discuss my stuff that are still in the house. Then he said from Monday I will be here so we talk...I said ok then bye.
Oh dear - you cracked and folded. I know you think you didn't because you referred to repossessing your stuff or that it doesn't matter anyway because at least you've started to get him willing to talk, but I'm afraid men note ACTIONS.... and your actions to-date suggest that you can't take the pressure of  his acting convincingly as if it's over and  not getting to meantime remain in contact for the purpose of seeking reassurance, meaning, once you two get back together - any time you have a really heated argument featuring some or other seeming impasse, he now knows that all he's got to do to end up as the one who got his way is repeat THIS whole production (his walking out (first or second) and acting like it's over).
What you've been doing comes into THIS classic vein:
Her: It's me. I'm only phoning to tell you I DON'T CARE that we're over, I've met someone FAR nicer, SO THERE! [click]
Him: (Don't care, huh? Ha-ha - yeah - evidently.)
All I can say is that you must be under the extra pressure of a guilty conscience, must know hand-on-heart that the reason he blew up and overreacted was because you had been prodding and pushing too far.
He called me couple hours ago and told me that maybe he will come in the afternoon to talk.... I don't know why I cracked...Yes I feel like I pushed him to react this way. I feel like the last period I was checking his limits but again I cannot say that he behavior is mature for me or something that I accept... And if he comes in the afternoon I don't know how to talk and what to say.. I mean I am confused...
He 'maybe but (cough!) will' come. Why wouldn't he? As I say, you've demonstrated that, even despite his once having EXPLAINED to you why he'd liked the results of his past mid- and post-paddy behaviour, you couldn't properly spot or appreciate the fact that this was merely yet another repeat performance, cranked up a few notches to feel somehow different and serious this time.
As you surely have been able to tell - no it wasn't.
Let's simplify this dance so that you'll never forget it:
1. He'd yank your pigtail, you'd say stop/not allowed/won't be tolerated.
2. He'd then yank BOTH just to show you who was boss and that you can't tell him what/what not to do.
3. You'd then kick him in the shins (- presumably to show him it's supposed to be CO-bosses/partners, not Master-Servant with you the servant).
4. He'd then, just convincingly enough, make like that was definitely-maybe-possibly a dealbreaker for him.
5. That would make you panic, whereupon you'd chase and persuade him back into the relationship (despite you never needed to in the first place, just needed to WAIT).
6. He'd be left happy because you'd have basically let him get away with that childish reaction at very little hardship cost to him.
7. He, in a generous making-up frame of mind and/or thinking you now knew who was boss (- meaning, next time he needed a bit of an emotional punching-bag or looked like he was losing a fight, you'd *automatically* back down out of fear of repeat abandonment) EXPLAINED the knee-jerk aims behind this string of actions to you.
(Fast forward to a month ago
8. He yanked your pigtail. *Daily*.
9. You tried to tolerate it but then said stop/not allowed/won't be tolerated.
10. He needed that old strategy again but, because he was aware he'd potentially scuppered its effects and end result through said prior explanation, had to crank it up majorly (which he did). ...Activate Operation "See how I'm dumping you?!" Mark II.
Mark II, maybe took longer, but seems to have WORKED. Message to self: from now on, use the cranked-up version and THIS time DON'T let on that that whole time, secretly I was NOT wanting to break up with her whatsoever.
Whether guilty conscience compelled you or you just couldn't take the Cold War any more, you've just made all future occasions worse for yourself. UNLESS!...
You can only save the day if you DON'T "talk" and DON'T "say". Let HIM do all the work. HE is the one who made out he wanted to call the relationship quits, not you. So why do YOU have to retract it???
Just tell him that aside from needing to recoup your stuff you feel like the pair of you should conduct a mature, adult, proper sit-down Debrief... that considering he [- HE! -] has decided this relationship wasn't making him happy any more [yeah, right!], you would like to know all about in what seemingly many and varied ways he was secretly so unhappy with it. And this you would ask him to please gentlemanly-do so that you can know what not to do in your next relationship, and in particular how to avoid these un-handle-able, OTT post-fight productions rather than more normal, calm & decorous discussions... that it would be nice to think he at least felt enough gratitude for the past 6 (you thought) very lovely- no, actually - HEAVENLY years to want to help you (and possibly him) out in this way.
Be passive. What he says goes. What he's SAYING he's saying is that he wishes to make *himself* very unhappy...basically to ruin his own life/destroy his happy future with you for the sake only of his massive ego.
Do not save him from himself. He has got to do that himself. And you along with him. Because that IS WHAT A GENUINE BOSS DOES!
He can't have it both ways.
Option Two is that you forget that speech; just do the normal post-fight screenplay and script, but then NEXT time he tries to take his moodies out on you, FAIL TO REACT OR RETALIATE OR TRY TO MAKE HIM HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT IS IN ACTUAL FACT UTTER BS LOOKING FOR A WILLING TARGET and just go a bit cool on him whilst giving him a very wide berth around the house... In other words, that old button that you so liked to push is now KAPUT...doesn't work... you're going to have to talk to me normally and properly if you have a problem or be NICE and WELL-MANNERED to me if you want me to notice you are still there. THAT way, his trying to take out his moodies on you does NOTHING but deprive him of engagement, attention, you feeling like getting cosy and sexy with him, treating him like your lover, basically. He'll be treated like a housemate. One you're not particularly fond of or interested in (because he's in Arsehole Mode). Loss of all perks. Until YOU feel like being loving again. That'll be his punishment. He'll have to woo you back to where you were before he started behaving badly, won't he.
I feel so bad that I cracked...But the truth is that I am very tired of all this. I really want this to stop with us together or not..
Also, he didn't come...
Well, that's the thing, isn't it... whether you want this relationship more than you want the temporary discomfort and uncertainty to stop. Takes a lot of self-control and -restraint, does Poker. It's certainly not for the feint-hearted or novice. But I repeat: at least this is all huge aggro for him, too, as opposed to solely for you. After all, you COULD have just taken his nonsense, turned the other cheek whilst keeping all your stress-, sorry - HIS stress inside...until, perhaps, it made you mildly depressed or poorly. I mean, once in a Blue moon is one thing but, according to you this was a regular occurrence. But, still, my point is - you could have. So I'd have thought, for the sake of putting a stop to his cat-kicking, this gauntlet-run was well worth it, wouldn't you?
Hmm... seems strange that he was the one called YOU to say he might come but then didn't turn up. Perhaps something cropped up unexpectedly or things didn't run smoothly to schedule? Or maybe he decided he wanted more time to prepare (a leg to stand on)?
But anyway - ACTIONS! He called you. That's progress.
Like I say, if he fails to step up then all you've done is found out sooner rather than later (when it'd have been far more painful) that this isn't the man you're destined to spend the rest of your days with. But he took it upon himself to call you when he didn't have to so... I don't think that's going to be of concern.
By the way, been meaning to ask you: so, that late afternoon/early evening (which?) that you'd thrice tried to get hold of him: where did he say he had he been or why you hadn't been able to get hold of him? And why at the time was he so bothered that you were trying to reach him?
You are asking me about the day that he broke my phone? What happened that day was that he called my at 2:30 in the afternnon and he told me that he finished job and he will be going to the super market so he called me to ask me what I want to bring from there. ( We used to eat together every day around 3:00 in the afternnon except if unexpected job came up). So when we talked I told him what we need and we hang up.
After 15 minutes I realised that I wanted some things from the super market that I forgot to tell him. So I called him...he didn't answer..I was waiting to call me back but he didn't, I called again after 10 min. he hang up the phone on me and he didn't call me back, I was waiting nothing..I called him again for 3rd time again he didn't answer. (His job is next to the super market and the super market is 10 min by car from our house) These calls happened in an hour the fourth time that I called and he answered (it was 3:35) his first words were' I am going now to the super market what do you want and keep calling?' and when I asked him' why were have you been till now?' he bacame angry and hang up on me. Then after a minute he called me back and he started screaming why you are calling me all the time, what do you want etc. After 3 minutes his was home, he came in screaming he took my mobile and throw it on the wall and said to me 'now I will se how you are going to call me again' and continue to shout at me. I didn't say a word because even if was going to say something he will not be hearing anything. He was in a hysterical phase. Also, he was smelling alcohol.. I don't know were he had been because i didn't ask him. After he broke my phone and when he was screaming the only thing that I told him was'enough, give me your phone to call my dad and come and pick me. He stopped, when out to the balcony for 2 minutes then came inside gave the phone and then he left. I took some stuff and then I left the house as well..So our last words were these...
"After 15 minutes I realised that I wanted some things from the super market that I forgot to tell him. So I called him...he didn't answer..I was waiting to call me back but he didn't, I called again after 10 min. he hang up the phone on me and he didn't call me back, I was waiting nothing..I called him again for 3rd time again he didn't answer. (His job is next to the super market and the super market is 10 min by car from our house) These calls happened in an hour the fourth time that I called and he answered (it was 3:35) his first words were' I am going now to the super market what do you want and keep calling?' and when I asked him' why were have you been till now?' he bacame angry and hang up on me."
Unless he *is* cheating - although you swear not - then 'How DARE you question me and my movements like you're my mother!', is basically what his thinking at that point was. Yup, definitely a power struggle. He wouldn't have made an issue out of such a simple AND *HIGHLY* COMMONPLACE scenario between couples, otherwise. He was looking for an excuse to assert his independence. Fuelled by alcohol.
Understand that alcohol/drugs doesn't CREATE, it removes the 'gate' to the pen that normally holds in feelings that already exist, those which the person either doesn't want or need or want to be seen to express, including momentary ones.
'I (hic!) bloodjy LOVE you, I do (hic!)', will say a drunk man to his mere acquaintance of solely that one evening. No, he doesn't. He feels happy, the drink magnifies the feeling, the 'gate' that controls misbehaviour swings open and BAM! - the unexpressable gets expressed, the unsayable gets said.
I would put any money you like on the fact that your fiance had had a sh*t day...maybe a run-in with a colleague or customer... hence needed a stiff drink on the sly... had one too many because it hadn't just been stress from that one incident that needed anaesthetising.... instead he'd ended up MULLING.... you then got in his self-revved crosshairs, gave him the perfect EXCUSE for why he was feeling so worked up.....and the rest you know.
By the time you demanded to ring your father (der big scary father, note), he didn't know how to back down without looking stupid as well as weak and pathetic.
He knows damn well the plaintiff is you, not him. He's making a meal out of this as a smoke-screen, hoping that by the time you and he reconcile it'll have been so long with so much other water having passed under the bridge that you'll either have forgotten or won't dare revisit the causal event.
This work 'stress' in fact has been a prolonged denting to his ego, his manly pride, that you haven't been privy to (because he wouldn't want to admit it to you whom should always be impressed). He's trying to assert himself with/over you and play the Big I Am to you in an endeavour to feel more like a manly man again.
Do you hate spiders or mice? (Sounds an odd and non-apropos question but - bear with me.) And where are you living at the mo? Because if he 'wants' manipulation then, with my help, he can damn well have it (and thank me, or rather YOU, another time).
At the moment I stay at my parent's house. They live in a city 30 minutes away from the plsace that we were staying together. Also his family is in the same city as mine and all these days the half of them he was here because he had work. I am sure that there is not another person (not till the time I left), and also I have undertand that the last period is bahaving to me like I am his mother and I want to control him. I mean he may say to me when he is angry 'I will not tell you were I am going" or 'I will do whatever I want' . His mother is very manipulative and the first things that told me about her when we stayed together was that she is jealous, wants to control things and says lies and that we have to keep her in distance! And he was doing it very very well for 5 years!! BUT last year I left to U.K because I wanted to do my master. He knew from the first time that we stayed together that I want to do my master. I finished my bachelor and then we discussed about it and I told him that I will go to U.K for my master will you be waiting for me? Do you want to say anything? And he was soooo supportive.He told me it is something that you want to do, I will be here for you, It is just a year everything is going to be fine! And everything was fine..I left on September and till Christmas that I came for holidays he was very supportive and showing love to me. AND gueww what! During my Christmas holidays we engaged!!! BUT his family was not happy because his sister couldn't come for the engagements..... Anyway things started to become weird after easter holidays. I came for easter hoidays everything was fine again..but hsi family was complaining that he visits most my family instead of his... I left after holidays and then he started to change. H ewas talking with me on skype and he started to say that I am nagging and there is no need to talk so much.. Also the 1st time that he did something weird was then one day he was saying again that I was nagging and hang up the phone on me and he wasn't talking with me for 2 days. After a period he did it again... I finished on AUgust and I came back for good... He was soooo excited , so happy , so into me... We went holidays and his mum called him 12 o clock at night 3 days after my arrival to say to him that wants to say to me welcome and she was asking questions about the hotel and the place that we were staying etc(she had my number as well). He gave me the phone she said to me welcome tec and then she asked what view are you looking right now, what you are going to do etc. Anyway when I hang up the phone I told him. Can you please tell your mum to do not call us everytime that she knows that we are going for holidays and specially to do not call these hours?? His response was tell it to her... I dais if it was my mum I will be telling it but it is your mum so I cannot say it to her. i put the limits at my parents and you at yours..AND that was the first time that he screamed to me....
He said all of you are driving me crazy!!! (ALL OF US???) and I have a family as well and since I am coming to your parents you have to do the same. I said yes you have a family and I respect it, and also I never told you to go to my family (the period that I was away he was going almost once per week and eating with my parents, without me to say to him to do it). The only thing that I am telling is that I feel that your mum wants to know everything and calls when she knows that we went vacations to ask us what are we doing and she is calling strange hours.. He screamed a bit more but after a while he calmed down...and we continued our holidays...On September we decided to rent a bigger apartment because the one we had was small. We found an apartment we both liked it and he was the one that said ok we will take it without second and third thoughts. We were preparing it he was very happy and he was saying 'great now the baby that will have will have space to run). After a month and a half he visited his parents. Two days after his visit we were sitting home eating and drinking wine and he started telling me that It was a big mistake that we rented the apartment since I don't have a job yet and we don't know if I will find one soon etc...Also he sadi that the spare room( the one for the baby) to make it an office for me and start working there (illegal) we had a big fight (I don't have a job yet but I have a good income from my parents so I am not dependant on him 100% and also I make payments of bills and other things for the house) and that fight ended by telling me if you don't like what you are hearing you can go....
The next morning he was not talking to me and he left to go for fishing and I took the dog and I left. BUT when he got back home and he realised that I left he txt to take care of the dog and that he will come and take it the next days....I didn't reply... 3 days later he came, but he didn't say anything the only thing was like you were nagging and you are not happy blah blah and to take me and the dog and go back... We went and everything was ok... that happened on October..Till April everything was fine ( no alone visits at the parents). Before easter he went at parent's city for a job for 3 days but I didn't go. He came back and he told me.My mother asked me why we didnt invite her in our new house! I bacame angry!!! I said to him what did you tell her? And he said that we will invite you one day!!! I became more angry!!! I said to him I told you on October that I was talking with her and asked me if the house is ready, I told her it is not fully but you are invited to came anytime yoy want and she said to me ok we will come (they never show up). A day later he told me that his grandma( the mother of his mum that stays next to her daughter and grow up him actually) ask him 'why you don't want your mother to your house and you are not inviting her???I became furious!!!! I asked him what did you say? And he said that he told her that I have invited her.. I was soooo angry! I said why is she is telling lies and also she implicate your grandma? She needs support on her lies?? I asked him when he will talk with her to confort her.. He said that he did it aster a few days... So for easter we are going at our parents place he is going at his parents and me at mine and it was supposed that the next day we will be eating together and we will be sharing the time in both house (it was the easter day). BUT he dissapeared..The easter day he didn't answer my calls and never called me back..He was at his parent's place. The next day he left without say anything to me!!!! I became angry and I went to another city to stay with a friend of mine for some days to relax...I texted him nothing so I didn't do anything else..A week later he textes me back that he is going to leave the house end of the month!!!!!!!I called him Nothing again. I learnt from a friend that he was telling lies.... so I didn't contact him again...5 days later because there was silenc from me he textes me again that I have 3 days to take my stuff because he is leaving the house...I called him and he answered... And what he was saying was that since I don't have a job I cannot tell him what to do or not, and the most of the weight and stress is on him..and I must by ashamed that I accept help from my parents and that measn that I am a child...and if I will not go out in the real world to find a job how we will have a family, and that he is not my dad! a etc etc..Also he told me that If you want to be together you must find a job!!! AND i told him that we are not having a company to talk to me like this..He knew that I have not a job but I am trying hard to find and I have stress on me as well but I try to tolerate it and I am not talking about anything under these terms, if I was a colleague ok but I not... Then he said of course you are always at to top of me!!!! and everytime is happenning whatever you want and I cannot understand how it is possible to happen what you want since you are the one that ae working!!!! I said that if he had any complains about me he had to discuss them with me and not like that and after what happenned and I cannot be in his head and guess what bothers him if he is not talking and when he will decide to talk to me like his wife then he can contact me. The next day he started contected me normal..talk to me normal..and asking me when I will go back , what he did during all this perios etc... I went back after a week and we talked and I told him that I know that you are stressed but you must try and talk to me bacause I cannot guess and I not with you because I don't care I am with you because I care a lot...We were good for a month since the last episode... The thing is that I have noticed that he changes when he goes at his parents BUT that was not happenning before..Also when we are together he is very kind and caring to me , he shows love to me..I don't know what is happenning and this change but I have a feeling that he wants to manipulate me not because that he believes that I need it but because they made him believe that he must do it.....
Any ideas? what do you think?
There's a lot more to this argument than first met the eye. Saying that, it still all smacks of power struggle. But it's clearly not a struggle between just he and you in the normal, standard relationship sense, but ghosts of past lovers and people (including his mum).
1. He didn't want to talk every single day once he's acclimatised to your being away, whereas, you having taken 2 days without conversation as him ignoring you tells me you do. That's a normal, very typical male-female difference/incompatibility.
2. The fact of his having been so damned over-the-moon to see and be with you again upon your return, speaks far louder than (and puts paid to any suspicion about) his male dislike of "chatting for no reason" over the phone.
3. "I dais if it was my mum I will be telling it but it is your mum so I cannot say it to her. i put the limits at my parents and you at yours..AND that was the first time that he screamed to me...."
Emotional blackmail. He didn't want to confront his mother, wanted you to instead, so kicked up a fuss in the hope that you'd back down for the sake of a reinstatement of peace and harmony.
4. He takes (took?) your not spending as much time with his folks as a worrying sign of your being less into him than he is you. It matters not that nobody forced him, he would still expect reciprocation in terms at least of willingness.
5. His parents obviously poured cold water onto his impulsiveness over the apartment by talking pragmatic sense into him.
6. "if you don't like what you are hearing you can go...."
That's an overreaction. Why does a difference in opinion have to equal the relationship being over? Why not, If you don't like what you're hearing we'll have to come to some sort of compromise so that we're both happy again?
7. I see you've left before this most recent incident. So it'd seem you were the one started this Damoclean Sword-waving, since which he's taken his own one up too (to level the playing field). Is that right or was he the one who originally introduced it (during some disagreement that happened prior to this incident you describe)?
I COULD go on but here's the bottom line: You both have dependence on your parents, still, in-common. His is emotional, yours is financial. This means his effects up-close and ongoingly whereas yours doesn't (other than the allowance, your parents obviously leave you to your own devices).
This is a rearing-incompatibility issue.
You can see one of the differences quite clearly yourself: you give her an open invitation to visit whenever she wants, but she's genuinely waiting for a more formal invitation and definite date before she feels confident to act on it. None coming equals no invitation.
You want him to 'leave' his mother like you already *emotionally* have left yours. That he won't/can't/won't is making you view HER as the baddie and accordingly colour her words and deeds Black (e.g. calling cross wires, lies).
She is not the problem, he is. He needs to stop feeling so answerable and accountable to his parents. To emotionally grow up, basically.
So there's you playing tug-of-war over him with his mother (and father), and here is him responding to that with, "Aaaargh!!!". Basically. He's struggling in the middle (inclusively his own fault) and dealing with the details of such by telling fibs and going AWOL, etc., AND by batting-back with making out that you're as reliant on your parents as he is his (which you're not but is just his attempt to level the inadequacies/blame playing-field).
"I don't know what is happenning and this change but I have a feeling that he wants to manipulate me not because that he believes that I need it but because they made him believe that he must do it....."
Yup. But they can't "MAKE" him do ANYTHING. He has to LET them. And anyway, they're not criticising you, as such, as far as I can gather. They're simply coming out with phrases along the lines of, 'THAT'S not right?! - it should be like THIS'. But you're different, meaning, so are you and he as a unit different.
In short, his parents are not deliberately trying to negatively influence your relationship and his attitude towards you. That is just the effect he's letting it have.
This guy does NOT deal well with pressure and decision-making. Proceed with caution on that score. This latest debacle, albeit painful, might well be a blessing in disguise.
You're right not to play his game nor even to give him the tiniest leg-up when it comes to his reversing this whole nonsense he's created on top of what was just yet another - and should have STAYED just another - clash of opinion over certain lifestyle elements. He needs this challenge of rescuing his own relationship. Maybe then he would experience a heightening of confidence that might spill over into his relationship with his parents in terms of his no longer needing or being influence-able by their verbal commentary and say-so the whole time (including every time he so much as sneezes).
Either wait it out so that it'll have been such a mountain of a once-molehill that he won't ever want a repeat of it OR decide that you need a man with better negotiation and conflict-handling AND -resolution skills.
I don't give the blame to his parents because it is his family and they say and do whatever they want. I give the blame to him because he cannot put his limits in order to protect our relationship.. He is so emotional vulnerable and every time he visits them he comes up with new ideas, so it is his problem that takes everything that they say as his words and ideas... Also the first time that I left he was the one that intoduced me to leave, he ashed it from me...You remember he said that he will come on Friday afternoon and he didn't. He didn't contact me to say that maybe anything happened. Till now no news from him.. What am I supposed to do?
I think that you can clearly understand his actions, better than me,,I am so emotional connected with all these and I really don't know what I must do.
For example is he calls me to meet how I must respond and how I must talk when we will meet?
If he will not contact me , is it a good idea to call him in order to meet?
Also there is the scenario that he will text me again with these 'blackmail' msgs...
What behavior will help the situation in order to find a solution?? The thing is that the first time we talked after his txt that will announce he was talking very calm to me. The next day that I called him to ask if he will come here or if he will be home in order to talk he was talking vey cold to me,in a way 'i don't care', and when he called me that he will come in the afternoon he was normal again. Mix moods
It's par for the human course to find yourself incapable of seeing your own woods for the trees. And yes, he does seem incapable of setting boundaries (save for the wrong ones)...which is interesting when he seems to feel entitled to crash through yours any time he likes (taking out his moodies, refusing to be answerable, going AWOL, standing you up...). But no-one can call themselves a proper couple if one of them regularly behaves like that. So yes, it does indeed look like his having said he'd call by on Friday was just yet another demonstration of flakiness, avoidance or deliberate resistance and rebellion in what now appears to be a whole history of such.
He clearly doesn't like having to be answerable to anyone. Hardly surprising given that he's already overly answerable to his parents. So I'm now thinking he deliberately didn't turn up on Friday or deliberately failed to make the effort to remove or get around some obstacle, simply because that was when YOU wanted a meeting. Again, he's trying to show you who's boss ("we'll meet up when *I* say we will"
. Yawn. PLUS - the biggie and decider - you have to remember that despite you said you wanted to talk, you ALSO added that you wanted to talk about taking away the rest of your stuff! He clearly wants to wait until all you're asking for is to talk, not make this break-up real by moving out possessions.
Therefore, if you chase for 'the chat' you are (his perception) automatically chasing for your stuff, which could mean (his perception) that the invitation to talk had just been a ruse to pacify him enough to allow you access to your belongings and to take them away without his standing in your way (and that now you were in a hurry for said possessions, hence chasing). So you now have to prove that the stuff collection was the ruse and the request to talk real - by waiting for HIM to contact. Or you have to say, 'Leaving the business of my stuff aside - when do you want to talk?'. Add, 'because clearly something cropped up on Friday as made you unable to come so...'. That way, if he DID deliberately stand you up, you're not rising to the bait and instead are putting it down to tricky circumstances ("Fail!"
But I, personally, unless I genuinely DID need to collect something (repeat - genuinely), would not chase. Not until such time as he still hadn't contacted and now I indeed did need my stuff.
He was going from warm to cold because he was constantly swinging in and out of I Love Her/I Hate Her and, that next day you mention, on top of the fact he was in Hate Her mode, you dared ask (demand) (his perception) for him to come home and talk.
He's got real baggage. Clearly whenever his parents and/or exes from his past would "ask" him to do something, it would somehow prove itself as secretly all along a COMMAND (i.e. they would then refuse to take no for an answer and wouldn't listen to his reasonable objections and/or would start to manipulate and trick him), meaning, now, even being genuinely just asked rubs him up the wrong way and has him rearing up, rattling the bars of his cage, like an idiot gorilla, anticipating being (possibly irreversibly) conquered and enslaved.
If it were me and he took longer than 6 weeks in total to request a pow-wow then I would tell myself that if he could be without me for that length of time, seemingly so happily or at least comfortably/do-ably, then that would be proving he could go far longer... like the rest of his life. Alternatively, if the reason he could drag things out for that long were simply down to his not daring to once-and-for-all find out and face the fact that I actually DID want to break up and make it formal and final by removing my stuff from his or our once-shared territory, then, I would reject him on the grounds of being far too chicken by my standards. But this is your show so it's up to you.
What do YOU want to happen?
PS: Until I know what you 100% want, I can't advise you on 'how to talk'. There again, if you already knew what you wanted, you wouldn't be asking me how you should talk. You'd know instinctively how, in accordance with whatever was your primary aim.
That's why I'm asking you, what do YOU want to see happen from here?
What I want is to give a last opportunity to this relationship because from all these years we were together I have seen him that he was next to me and we had good relationship. I feel that he became insecure when I left for a year for my master and also he was so emotional vulnerable that time that's why he changed..I do not like his behavior now but I think that the relationship deserves a last try. But not with me just trying...
And I am sure that if I will talk with him by saying what will happen and if we are willing to try to solve the relationshio his reply will be that I don't understand him and I am nagging and these kind of things...
ANd also about my character if you ask him he will say that' I am a strong person, a good job for me it will be to be a lwayer because I am very good of talki and make things the way I want' he is telling these things about me all the time. Also in different times that I told him that I am sensitive and something hurted me he reacted like I was telling lies. I mean in his mind he thinks that I am not sensitive, maybe because i am not showing it...Also he says that I have a strong head and I am not listening to others and I am always doing what I want, in the way I want and that I manipulate very well my father. I told him that I don't manipulate him at all, he just loves me in a way that leaves me free without to judge my decisions..and he is next to me to support e whenever I need him... On the other hand with his family he has very different relationship. His dad is like having no role in the house, his mum decides for everything and him in times was saying that his mum is so manipulative and maybe his dad became so tired of her behavior so he doesn't involve in anything. Also his family don't give any support. I mean in times when he had finacial problems his family never helped him (he works from 18 and he is independant) only his grandparents do the things that his family was supposed to do. He has a sister 5 years younger and his parents support her all the time emotionally and financially and he used to tell me that when at home he had fights with his sister their parents told him to don't say anything to her again and if he has problem with her to say it to them...???? Also he used to say that his sister is the 'sounboard' of his mum..and if she will continue like this she will be destroyed. I feel in times that he was behaving to me like I was him mum and he was fighting with me.. Because you don't get angry with your wife if she asks you were are you going, and tell her I will go wherever I want and do whatever I want I will not ask your permission or tell you anything..This is behavior of a child that fights with his mum that tries to control him.. I don't think that I ever tried to control him and also I never changed my behavior all these years I was asking these questions and he had no problem to tell me..Another think that makes me think that he shows me as his mum is that if he wants to go out after work for drinks, instead of calling me and say it, he is going and if I will call him he will not answer my call and when he will come home he will say I didn't say it to you to don't start nagging. I explained to him a lot of times that since you know that I am waiting for you to eat together I want to call me and say to me that you will not come so I will know to don't wait for you.And when you 'hide' it to don't nag ahen you are coming home I am so angry with you and I will nag because you didn't call to say it or you didn't answer my calls when I was calling you..Even if I have said these things he was keeping doing it (the last period not always).
I guess you want to give it one last shot [a] in case it can work again (obviously), as it did prior to your leaving or at least so that [b] if it fails you'll know you didn't do anything wrong, per se, and can walk away from the relationship with your head held high. Again - common stuff.
Would make a good lawyer/barrister. Say no more. Even at the best of times, men find most women they love hard enough to argue against, WITHOUT her being a natural-born, self-controlled arguer-under-fire to boot. If he tends to lose every debate over any contention with you AND can't state his case or express himself well enough to stand up to his parents, AND has has been being subjected to some a-hole at work making his life difficult, AND had that whole year stuck fast to point of habit into a state of insecurity and vulnerability because you were out of his control range when it came to protecting you from other men or protecting himself from the constant possibility of you getting swept off by pastures new, then I'm *really* not surprised at his behaviour (unacceptable though it is). And now I know why he didn't want to talk every single day: every conversation would have been a painful reminder that you weren't there and of him being out of control, meaning, he would have wanted to have kept conversations to those times when he was already naturally thinking of you and missing you, and meaning that on days when he was coping and NOT pining, your normally welcomed call would have knocked him off his fairly-contented perch. And all of that is on top of the fact he, I suspect, doesn't have full enough control *anywhere* important in his life.
It's really difficult, isn't it, because although he probably NEEDS to win this battle with you, if he did it would just make your own life more difficult from here on in. He would start exerting his need to feel manly and effectual, ego-wise, all over the damn shop... possibly start telling you what to eat for flippin' breakfast! He needs to take or regain control in all other aspects of his life, he can't make himself feel better by making you and your relationship compensate for it all. In other words, the put-upon or bullied cannot turn putter-on and bully.
Yup, he'll have definitely been taking things out on you under that set of circumstances.
Rock and hard place... If you out-fox him this time, it'll just perpetuate his sense-of-underdog problem. Yet to NOT out-fox him means your remaining a slave to his natural calming-down timeline as well as his say-so - as obviously leaves you still in the dark, in Limbo (which is horrid).
I think one of your available solutions is to find some plausible excuse to act like the damsel in distress to his big manly hero by yelling a pathetically girlie, 'Heeeelp!' at him. Which is what I suspected up there and hence why I asked if you hate mice or spiders. Were you living alone or if there were some opportunity to be alone in the house and on some night when you suspected he'd be available you were (cough!) CONVINCED you could hear a mouse/see a huge, hairy spider and direly needed him to come to your rescue, you could switch to using this feminine-wiles-of-old tactic to show or remind him that you, Mrs Too Capable, still do need him and are helpless without his input in other ways, if not in those arenas in which he's thus far been trying to compete and out-do you. He needs to feel like he can impress you... to feel powerful and superior, basically. This is just an example... it could be anything that you are clueless about but he is not - your car, for example. Something PRACTICAL.
It doesn't even matter if he suspects he sees through it and it was just your attempt to engineer a meeting. One, he - Mr Starving Ego - is not going to look a manly-pride/ego-boosting gifthorse in the mouth and, two, nor is he when it comes to any opportunity to have in-person contact via an ice-breaker that doesn't involve his losing face (- gaining it, in fact). If he loves and misses you, he'll play the game gladly and gratefully. But at least it won't involve you having to back down on your message that you refuse to play anyone's emotional punching-bag just for the sake of getting to continue a relationship with them.
Does that sound like a plan? I think it gives you control and power of effect without taking anything away from him and, as I say, in the process it representing a GIFT. (Your alternatives options I've already spelled out for you.)
This sort of game-playing was once all women had at their disposal. And very good at it they were, too.
What do you think?
I cannot think of anything that will make me to show him that I nned his help. Also he stays in another city an hour from here. I started to wonder if he really loves me. Deeply inside I feel that he loves me but maybe this is because I want to feel this way. His behavior all this period does not show love. I think that If you want a person in your life you are making everything to have it, and to don't loose it but he is making eveything to loose me..So confused.. Also he said that from Monday he will be back and still he haven't call me yet to tell me to meet..
Whether you decide for or against any of the options open to you in your particular situation is your prerogative. Just as long as you know what they are, that's all that really matters, stops you feeling so utterly powerless.
This whole debacle *is* pretty normal, though. I promise you I have seen this between couples too many times to say, including, many moons ago, myself and Mr Soulmate (I ended up chucking him out and us not talking then not talking properly for 3 weeks) if that makes you feel any better? Emotions have a lot to answer for, particularly if you're not quite sure where the other person's coming from out of not communicating as well as you both could and should. And it makes things 10 times worse if each of you are sat there convinced the other person is the one who wants out or is undecided. Who makes the first move? And do they make it whereby their feelings and objective are CLEAR and can't be negatively misconstrued whereby things just get exacerbated?
It's possible that if he'd been under a lot of prolonged stress, he might use the fact he deep-down KNOWS you want to keep the relationship itself (if not the problems) and normally are a forgiving type to subconsciously engineer himself a proper break and breather. Perhaps he'd been aware he needed one but hadn't felt it acceptable or reasonable to suggest it? Many do...are incredibly foolish enough not to just say so and just use the fact of a stand-off to "buy one, get one free", thereby causing HUGE doubt in their partner...just like you're experiencing right now.
Very non-sensible, very risky, very foolish...but that's stressed-out, emotionally-overwrought men for ya. Men also have a different sense of time ("a month is nothing!"
, thanks to the fact they, unlike women, don't have constant, regular reminders that that's another month having just flown by.
What I'm saying is, YOU might be convinced The Fat Lady has sung but I'm not. No, of course his behaviour isn't showing love. Love has been kidnapped and incarcerated to the back of the feelings queue by shock/anger/denial and confusion. Doesn't make it acceptable. But since when did negative emotions and a roused ego give a fig for what's acceptable or not?
Whether you decide in your own mind that you are out, or that you're out because you're convinced he is, doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the reality of the situation and how it'll pan out. All you'd be doing would be psychologically removing yourself from this limbo. Deluding yourself but in a good way. But I imagine if I were him and I was unsure whether SHE wanted out thus, accordingly, definitely wanted to just collect her stuff and move on, I would do what he was doing: fail to turn up on the agreed day (having deliberately said, MAYBE) and then sit back to see whether he proved that need for his stuff and a full-stop by ringing again to say something like, 'Why didn't you turn up? Listen, I really do need my stuff and would insist that you cooperate in my coming to collect it'.
When men are literally split between concluding one major thing and another, they tend to do ZILCH... until their minds can think more clearly and unimpededly and work out what is truly what. THEN they act.
Before then, they can be as convinced as you are that it's o-v-e-r... until the anger and confusion clears and suddenly - like magic - the love, remembering all the good times, and starting to pine badly, muscles its way back to the front of the queue again as the overriding, far stronger, permanent feeling whereupon neither of you CARE any more what/who started it. All you know is that YOU WANT YOUR 'TEDDY', WHAAAH!
Therefore, the fact you're NOT chasing up on that request for your stuff is meanwhile proving to him, slowly but surely, that, no, your request to meet was NOT about you wanting your stuff and a final debrief to allow you to move on, it was just an excuse. To talk. I.e. mend.
But I agree this can't happen again. The happy news, however, is that following a couple having experienced this huge test and hurdle, it tends not to anyway (for obvious reasons). Especially if you don't let yourself float off with the happy reconciliation fairies and remember that you and he still need to hash things out (this time more calmly).
Ever since we had our humdinger, rows between Mr Soulmate and I go (verbatim - last week) like this:
But that's not what you said last week; last week you said X / You weren't listening properly, then, because I ALSO said Y / No, you didn't, there's nothing wrong with MY memory, you're the one who constantly forgets things / That's not true, last week you forgot Blah, remember? / Well, that was a one-off / Hmmm... / Hmm yourself / I hate you...prrrth! / I hate you more / No, I do / Prove it! / [desperate attempts not to smile dissolving into mutual giggles] / Just don't do it again / Yes, mum / If I were your mother you wouldn't be capable of being sat down down right now / Ooh, promises-promises - where dya want me? / Shyaaadap, you [chuckle]...
It fizzles out too quickly into silliness precisely BECAUSE we had that humdinger, meaning, if THAT didn't/couldn't work to actually damage or break us, NOTHING could... so what would be the point of any unnecessary drama when we have far many more important things to spend our energies on? No point what..so...ever.
Lastly, stop overlooking the non-obvious bleedin' obvious: If he's the one who's done, why isn't he the one calling YOU so that you can get your stuff and thereby yourself finally out of his life and him in a position where he can move on?
ACTIONS/LACK OF ACTIONS!!! Ain't no arguing with them.
I called him today and he answered the call and ask me what do you want and you are calling me. I told him that you know why I am calling you, I want us to meet and have a talk. He said you haven't got anything to say, one day that I will be away from home come and collect your stuff. I told him ok but first I would like to meet. He said again there is no need to meet because you don't understand anything and there is no reason to say anything. He dais that he hasn't got anything to say to me and then I told him that I don't want us to talk of what happened that day that I left or I don't want you to say anything if you don't want I just want you to hear what I have to say. He said that I don't want to hear you.I told him that if it is over I want to hear me because our relationship deserves a proper end and it makes me sad to don't give us the opportunity to have it. Then he said that it is time for you to feel sad ws well because all this time you din't care or thinking you are a 'donkey'. I told him that i am not like that and I feel sorry that he thinks like this for me. Then he said that I have to wait and he will inform me when we will meet. I asked him ok how long I will wait? He said I don't know I have other things more important to do..just wait..Then I told him that our relationship is important since we shared years together.He replied that that was a mistake of him and I said him you only know if these years was a mistake for you or not. I have a different perspective. Then he said ok come tomorrow, we will meet at a coffee shop, tell what you want to say and then we will arrange a date for you to collect your stuff and then we can wave off... The way he was talking also was not calm , he was talking in a defensive and distant way, like I did something he had enough and he doesn't care to discuss or solve anything....
'YOU haven't got anything to say', note! Translation: you didn't beg me back (like usual) so that means regardless of what you might claim with your mouth, YOU don't want to reconcile, so what would be the point in discussing it.
No, he hasn't got anything to say to you (in light of that), INCLUDING, 'come get your stuff', i.e. initiating it, if allegedly that's what he'd been wanting. He's only saying that because in response to what do you want, why are you calling me, you failed (yet again) to instantly crumble and fold. A call to tell him you missed him and wanted him back was the only call HE was prepared to entertain. Hence he is STILL insistingly plonking the stuff-collecting ball in YOUR court, telling YOU to prove that you genuinely - like you seem but in a way he can't tell for certain - want to take away your stuff.
I mean, 'one day when'. How are YOU supposed know for 100% certain that whichever day you pick is one when he's guaranteed not to be there? Furthermore, you were supposed to believe that despite there he is and there you are, on that call, he was incapable of right there and then citing one or a number of days when HE knows he won't be at home? ACTIONS!
And then, there's you basically calling his bluff in saying, If it's over, prove it. But what does HE come back with? Not proof...not anything like it. He starts going on about his little cache of resentments, like only one who IS still in the relationship will do. (Over, my a*se.)
And then we have him basically saying, We'll do the talking first and THEN the divvying up of possessions. Why not the other way around?
GOTTIM! Needing to talk does not automatically make collecting your stuff either beforehand or duringtime or in the minutes following, impossible to do. Conclusion: he's banking on the talk being what makes that need suddenly null and void.
"The way he was talking also was not calm , he was talking in a defensive and distant way, like I did something he had enough and he doesn't care to discuss or solve anything...."
The way he was talking was called angry, petulant and resentful. Because your biggest crime, the crime that has now completely overshadowed all prior crimes was, NOT HOURS OR ONE DAY OR, AT THE WORST, DAYS LATER BEGGING HIM BACK. Berbom.
This guy is too used to being chased... the woman backing down.... women with less stamina, less faith in her own convictions, less patience. He is on alien territory, completely and utterly. You're going to have to throw him just a tiny bone.
There's no way this so-called talk is going to lead to your packing up your stuff. Once he clocks eyes on you, he'll be done for (yet another reason why he'd have preferred a longer delay if he'd had that choice). Tip (said bone): wear the same outfit, if possible, that you wore on your first ever date. Make yourself look gorgeous. Let's see THEN how (cough!) ready to call it over he is. (Evidently, about as ready as he is to stab his own eyeball. LOL)
There you go. Feel a bit better now?
If not, go off and do something else for an hour and then come back and re-read these last two posts.
He 'blocked' me. I mean the way he was talking and the things that he was telling makes me feel that he is not willing to discuss or solve anything. He has the stand of i don't care and that's it! He was pointing me the finger that I did mistakes and I don't understand and that's it! That the relationship was a mistake and these kind of things...And meet in a coffee shop? A crowded one to discuss what???
Also when he was telling me that he doesn't know when he will find time to meet I told him that he has to find I cannot wait. He said that noting will happen to me if I will wait for once in my life... and when I told him if you cannot find a day to put on our meeting then I will have to come home without to wait for you. And he said that I cannot go home because it is not my home anymore and he is not my man anymore..and that he used to be in the past now I lost him...
"A crowded one to discuss what???" From your point of view - to discuss, why does one big but perfectly normal argument mean the baby has to be thrown out with the bathwater?
But I'll try to simplify things:
You: Why didn't you turn up or call me?
Him: Because I don't want to be HELPING you to do something that inarguably signifies you're out and helps you move on (because that's not what I deeper down want). Since all you purport to want is to collect your stuff, why do you want to talk, where would be the point if, according to you, there is no 'going forward' for us?
You: Because (magic giveaway phrase) our relationship IS (STILL) IMPORTANT.
Him: Oh. OH. That's different. Well in that case - okay. But it has to be a crowded, public place so that  you can't make me fold by flinging your lovely arms around me (- you'd be unlikely to do so because you'd be worried that you might get rejected thus humiliated in full public view),  we can't end up in another argument, we'll HAVE to remain calm, meaning,  I will likewise be severely inhibited against my raging or bursting into tears (you, too) (because I can't take any more emotional upset full-stop, I'm already flooded). Plus,  I want you to worryingly think I don't want to be alone with you because I'm not in-love with you any more (which might make you more ready to beg).
Everything else he said was immaterial hot air and his past (but present-over-magnified) resentments leaking out AND his attempt to upset you to make you finally lose the plot, burst into tears and fling all your cards face-up on the table where he could properly see them/know what they truly are.
This relationship was a mistake is as This relationship was a mistake *does*, which he has neither been, nor is, nor by all indications will be *doing*.
Go off and do something else for an hour then come back and re-read this entire thread. Do yourself that favour.
'Wait for once in your life'. You see, to his mind you were supposed to be superwoman and neither get upset at his cat-kicking or take it personally, and instead just wait for it/me to blow over.
Like mamma and dadda would always do (- "Aww, don't listen to him, just leave him be, don't take away his toy or put him in his room, don't PUNISH him, he doesn't mean it, he's just UPSET, he's only lickle, awww...poor wickle soldier"
He's a spoiled baby who's been over-pandered to. He might have his wonderful side..indeed, that might be his far-far dominant side. But he's still a bit spoiled, which comes out in cloudy or rainy weather. He has to learn that you and your love are not the same as his mother's, that you are NOT - by the nature of who YOU are (his ROMANTIC love partner) - as capable as her at remaining impervious to or rising above his moodies and tantrums, and that NOT being impervious does not equal doesn't care/care enough.
I agree with all that you said to me..but I don't know how to behave tomorrow..I suppose that he is going to have the steel face, I don't care and continue to say that he doesn't care and has not anything to say. From the way he was talking today he will be something like ok say whate you want to say..Also if he hears something that he don't like it i think that he walk away. So confused...He plays hard but for what? How I must talk, what to say I don't know anymore and don't know how to behave in order for him to understand the things that has to understand..to understand that I would like us to try for the relationship but not with these manipulative ways and these kind of tantrums
A friend of ours called him today and they were talking and my 'ex' told him that we will meet tomorrow. And our friend told him ok go and talk with her you were together so many years and he said to him leave me alone do not push me as well...Our friend said that he was not hearing very well he was not happu we was i a depresive mood
He texted me and wrote that tomorrow I will have 15 min. I texted back and told him that I don't need a time limiti because I have things to say and he must leave me to say whatever I have to say. Then he texted me back and wrote: say that its over. I replied that if I want to say it like this I will had already do it. and then he replied you are not going to take not even a sample of feelings from me so don't come at all...
I sent a ? and he replied that you made this relationship pieces and don't come tomorrow
I don't know what to do I am thinking to go there because he cannot do whatever he wants I mean he sayd come then don't come etc. I really really don't know..
Okay, now he's in Complete A*sehole territory.
I'm afraid to say, that friend of his, out of a misguided sense of wanting to be the save-the-day hero (- he must like you being matey's girlfriend / like you as a couple very much), went overboard. As you heard for yourself, the conversation ended with him saying, 'Leave me alone!! Don't YOU start pushing me as well?!' (which had to have been yelled) ....and sent him back into rage and hate mode.
He thought he had a vitally-needed ally for a moment there. But now he feels betrayed.
He probably worked out (jumped to conclusions) that this friend had to have been sent by you (meaning he's YOUR friend, not his). To do your pushing. So you are the pusher/pressurer (still), now directing puppets in your hell-bent endeavour to always-always-always control him. And to be TALKED AT, not listened to!...meaning you can't give mutual friend ALL the blame. He so needed to be listened to, to be understood. Instead you talked to him like you were his mother (you must let me say whatever I want for however long I want). Tomorrow he'd be pushed and pressured - from the source. Can't stomach that (about to have a mini nervous breakdown). Best to set a time limit. No?...not allowed? "Then I rest my case since you've just proved my point!". Best to cancel.
Best to Cancel sprinkled liberally with I HHHHHate her, I hate him, I hate everyone! = Cancel Hostilely & Rudely ...which amounts to Cruelly.
I wish there had been the opportunity for me to warn you NOT to refuse his time-limit because - no way, come the moment, would it have have got upheld or even remembered. It was just his psychological failsafe provision, his available ejector seat function *if*/*in case*. You should have just humoured him or said, 'I'll do my best'. Plus, even if it *had* turned out to be only 15 minutes, you could quite easily have viewed it as the first talk of many?
He is FAR more heartbroken and devastated than you are - CLEARLY!
But you two really *are* stuck fast in an arm-wrestle, aren't you, eh? Neither of you is willing to back down and agree over ANYTHING. You're not being canny in picking your battles, the pair of you. But the main theme I keep hearing is, 'Now / Not yet! / No, now! / Later! / Now!! / Right, then, you can eff off altogether!!!!'
a] Text back along these lines: I didn't mean that I'd talk AT you, I meant time to respond to whatever you'll say. Ok, then, if I agree we'll keep it as brief as possible can we reinstate it, please? But I don't think 15 minutes is realistic by any sane stretch of the imagination, so can we say aim for 15 but say no longer than 40? I promise I'm not intending to push or pressure you, that's not my aim here. If you don't want me then you don't want me, I just want to truly and properly understand why. Because I don't. I was hoping for a sort-of tutorial, tell the truth. So - can we, please, or re-schedule?'
Might not get a reply, though, despite it'll 'get in' and start to work its effect.
b] Leave it and wait (without moping or whittling). You clearly DON'T need your stuff. Just wait for him to be FACILITATED into calming down (space, quiet, peace, no haranguing from *anyone* - remember, the work stress is undoubtedly still ongoing!). This guy is clearly majorly overloaded, head spinning and temper very frayed (- nobody hand him a gun, jeez!).
c] Leave it (the fixing part) forever - because this guy can't cope at ALL well with stress and you need one that can - and just next week or the week after (no longer than 2 weeks), assuming you haven't heard anything, TEXT that you're entitled by law to collect your stuff and will be coming on X-day if he wants to make himself scarce (and adding ONLY IF he refuses) but that if not, if he forces it to be necessary, you're prepared to get Police accompaniment.
d] If you have the key, just turn up (best take a friend with) with a van on a day you believe he'll be absent. And leave a note (on the off-chance it might help), saying, 'Didn't want to have to do this. Ever'. Or nothing but an invisible, silent note saying (to the threshold as you exit), 'You're an a-hole'.
My own opinion is that this guy is caught heavily in rebellion mode, that he really CANNOT cope with stress. But then, I am bearing in mind that his work days are horrid, his homelife started to feel horrid, his parents directing was already feeling horrid, this showdown is horrid, that his friends even seemingly on your side (equals, not his) is horrid.
Do you make allowances? That's a personal choice - no right or wrong unless whatever you do equals you having to force yourself - using all the knowledge YOU have about who he is, what he's like, how he ticks, who you are, what you're like, how you tick, etc.
But I can give you a frame of reference, called Normal & Healthy and/or Indicative Of Lifelong Success...
Taking out your moodies more than as a one-off (say, one episode or day per 2 months) is abusive.
The Silent Treatment (for the purposes of denying or withholding the means to fix) is abusive.
Convincing yourself and acting accordingly that you're totally blameless and it's all her fault is unfair-minded, self-deluding and frankly a bit Narcissistic.
Dangling the Talk and Collect My Stuff carrots and then whipping them away - more than once - is cruel. Abusive. As is standing you up.
Taking your latest woes out on a friend that's obviously only trying only to help proves you're caught in victim mentality yet simultaneously looking for a fight or a reason to hate and stay angry, which is abusive and self-abusive.
I would just HOPE that normally he IS a great guy because right now - THIS MAN IS JELLY. JELLY THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO NAIL TO THE CEILING (ain't gonna happen). He's not seeing anything from your side, not a thing, and certainly isn't receptive to doing so or having an adult, reasonable discussion, let ALONE getting his fixing tools out.
He's done you a favour, really. Tomorrow, it if had been somehow forced to happen, would have all ended in tears. Better to wait until he even REMEMBERS that there are days, months, years after 'just tomorrow'.
Would *I*, were I looking for a for-life partner, want this guy? No. Sorry. Because even if 90% of the time in terms of hours and minutes he's an angel, this is one *very* unreasonable and traumatic 10%, meaning his mere momentary moodies must be more hellish than the average as well, meaning the light-to-dark ratio needs to be appraised not by regularity of occurrence but by WEIGHT.
But then, I'm not adding to the scales the fact that I'm in love with him. Because I'm not. I don't have that pressurer, that blinkerer, that emotional manipulation. Or, conversely, that day-saver. ?
I also don't have a crystal ball whereby I could *guarantee* that this would be a one-off episode as in a type of path-obstacle clearer (i.e. a one-time, all-at-once event rather than the usual lots of little blow-outs), making the rest of the journey ahead on the relationship path with him a piece of p*ss.
One thing I DO know, however, is that all of this that's been piece by piece going on will meanwhile have been kicking even MORE love out of you (despite that love can always be regrown with mutual willing). Dare you to tell me I'm wrong. This means, if he keeps this UP, you're going to eventually go from angsted to simply highly unimpressed and turned off, and dump and be glad you did and never look back with any regret.
So in summary, he or any partner cannot be allowed to treat you like this / you cannot allow someone to use you as a puking vessel and ego expander, be or remain this or any man's victim, waiting helplessly on a string for His Highness's merciful reprive. You have to call an end to it for the sake of your own peace of mind (and then let yourself be surprised if/when). You have to tell yourself that the way he's behaved he should be lucky if YOU want to say two words to him any more (get warrantedly angry!). And you have to do that by taking confidence from keeping at the back of your mind this giant but clearly missed action:
He said, SAY THAT IT'S OVER.
Because HE CAN'T. He can't do it.
If you have faith that this is a one-off event and feel the light-to-dark ratio still falls sufficiently or majorly in light's favour, and feel that you were no saint either (truly, though) - far from it - and want this man, this relationship, back, then you're going to have to leave baby to have a nice, long nap so that he can wake up in a better mood, back to his more normal, reasonable(?) self.
So where do you currently (today) stand, mentally and emotionally, and what do you want to be the outcome?
To make it simpler:
Stand back and see the whole view: Is he an immature tw*t or is he just BEING an immature tw*t, uncharacteristically, temporarily, with understandable, if not easily-so, basis?
I know you are right to everuthing but I am not strong enough I feel so hurt..I know that I didn't do something soooo bad to deserve this behavior and it hurts more because I still have feelings but the truth is that he doesn't care. He doesn't care to try, he doesn't care to do anything and he only tries to make me feel bad and more hurt. and his text: you are no gong to take out from me even if a feeling? what was it?????
I was thinking tomorrow to go there since I have the keys....but then I though that this is not going to be good idea...The frind that called him it is his friend very good one... his wife told me about the call...Also my ex was the one that told him that tomorrow we will meet..our friend didn't ask him anything...Also the wife of his friend told me that all this period he never said to him what happened, he only called him the day that he was bringing my stuff and when he asked him why what happened he said it was not working...nothing else...
But for sure he is not willing to do any talk or anything else,and his message about the feling it was something like i don't care anymore, go away i don't care? it hurts a lot but it shouldn't... He is playing soo bad...He could just say it is over take your stuff but he is doing all these things and I feel so bad about the fact that I cannot do anything... I became so angry with him that's why I want to go home since I have the keys...to confort him...I cannot wait him to do anything...
sorry for the way that I am writing I am upset. The messages that he send me were these in the order he send them:1) That I made this relationship in pieces. After 2 minutes he send -instead of feeling shame I am playing the victim and after 3 minutes he send- 'you are not going to take out a feeling from me, don't come at all tomorrow ans when I replied by the '?' he replied again that I made this relationhip in pieces, don't come... What was interesting to me it was that he send 3 messages in the row and the one that I will not take out a feeling from him was so odd! I am going crazy! I really feel like going there and scream to him stop it!
The husband friend didn't have to ask him anything about tomorrow (and I already know your bf raised the subject). But the friend clearly did pressure him when it came to making his mind up and get his ducks in a row. Plus, whether or not his wife was the engineer and navigator, her husband still chose to be the driver; they were working as a team (hah - your bf should take a tip!).
No, it generally *isn't* working when you've just had a humdinger. I wouldn't take any notice of that. Transient emotions are just that - merely passing through. What matters are the overriding feelings, the ones you has for you in situation normal.
Example: imagine you've just badly stubbed your big toe. Meanwhile, you've got someone insensitively picking that moment to get you to talk and, e.g., in roundabout fashion make them tell you that they love you. What are you going to hear if they're under pressure and pain enough? 'Argh, leave me alone, who CARES about your stupid feelings, I don't GIVE a sh*t, go AWAY!'.
How were you (and this husband) to know what you were doing counted as insensitive? Maybe if he'd TALKED to you, you would. So that's his fault, isn't it. But that, in his present state, would still have been how it impacted.
You've just reminded me: during our post-blow-out separation, I rang Mr Soulmate (the loveliest man you could hope to meet, normally) as planned in his preceding call to me, but had genuinely had to do so a day early (think something cropped up for the arranged night). He wasn't expecting it and wasn't prepared and had a RIGHT snarky go at me. "Why you ring me, what you want, you sposed to ring me TAMARROW!" (- he's French).
(I told you - you've got to start taking in what I say: he's in Want Control mode. No surprises, no pressure, no hassle, master of his own schedule.)
I didn't rear up or argue - what would have been the point if I was already getting no sense out of him. I just calmly apologised and explained and asked would he like me to go, then, and ring two days on instead? No (sigh), was the answer. But he carried on being beligerant, arrogant and just all round snarky until he (again) really tested my patience whereupon I gave him a damn good lecture, said I had made a horrible mistake ringing him and thinking we could reconcile and, 'I'm going to go now, thank-you for everyth-'... That's as far as I got. Ten minutes later, having interrupted wait-wait-wait!, he was asking to come home. Evidently, he wasn't as far gone - stuck in A-hole mode - as your guy. But I still know precisely what you're talking about - all of it - so you don't have to apologise for being upset and a bit all-over-the-shop.
My theory is that my precisely *having* got angry at that point of the call did the trick. He could understand and relate to anger (mixed with shock, disgust and dismay), couldn't he. Plus, you don't get angry unless you truly care. Plus, they push and will carry ON pushing until they meet WALL. So get as angry as you like right now. And STAY angry. It'll help discharge all the negative feelings faster. You deserve to be angry.
Oh, and by the way - coincidentally enough, Mr Soulmate likewise used that, playing the victim statement. I guess because up until that point I had been too passive, as well, which normally I am definitely not. But I think it was GOOD that I had been because then, that point of the call where I got on my high horse had the required impact via the sudden contrast. (Note that.)
Let's examine his second statement more closely, see if there could be anything in it: Why does he believe you should feel shame?
Re relationship in pieces: he's still referring to the fact (his perception) you made it so much worse by  actually leaving the house and  letting it all go on and on without contacting and obviously  not having just ignored him or turned the other cheek whilst he was outwardly struggling with his work stress. Don't worry, he'll get over it; he'll realise eventually... that's another transient thought and emotion.
"I really feel like going there and scream to him stop it!"
Oh. Really? Great. (*Finally*.)
I always say, if you've got an extreme on your plate, you have to use an equally or slightly more extreme method to deal with it OR the other opposite. Since you can't do North then by all means do South. At least it's a definite rather than wishy-washy (again, his perception). If you can be arsed in the first place to get out of your chair and go, AAAARGH!!, then you must really care, right?
It's that or SIT PATIENTLY AND WAIT.....aaand we're back to, You can't do that.
PS: Actions: Three texts in succession. Not one. THREE.
All of this, everything he's been doing since the "break-up", has been him trying - PRECISELY - to get a big enough rise out of you. Think about it until you can see it and, I repeat, DO IT (lose the plot).
The sign of madness, said Einstein, is doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results.
You've done passive and can barely be arsed. It hasn't worked (despite SOME of it will have, the important, bottom-line message bit**). Time to switch tacks.
Doesn't mean that however long afterwards you can't still as planned state your embargo and other conditions for going forward as a couple. This, you taking decisive action and spilling your angry guts, **isn't about you folding any more (now that you've gone this long having managed not to do so). It's about having demonstrated you're no push-over (which you've now done), meaning, he is not-not-NOT going to be able to expect to get away with taking out his moodies on you any more. It's right now about just getting to talk, in whatever fashion. Being face-to-face and talking (or yelling - as long as you still say the magic phrases) is the only point - as a starting block.
Don't announce you're there to get your stuff. Don't even mention stuff. Just do what you now feel like doing, say what you feel like saying. Show that the gameplan can wait for now, that it's now the furthest thing from your mind.
Just don't beg or agree to anything that you can't realistically live with, preserve your principles. That's the main thing.
(Got to pop out now, back in a couple of hours.)
PPS: He *can*, however, at all times necessary ASK NICELY if you'll SHARE (as in, confide) his moodies.
There's the difference that makes ALL the difference!
I called him early in the morning and I told him that I will come and he said ok..But then I slept because I was so exchausted and he called me in the afternoon and asked me where are you? I said I din't come because some things came up.He said ok bye
I called him now because tomorrow I have a job appointment at the city we stayed and I told him that I will be there tomorrow and if we can meet.Then he said no from Monday we will talk because I am busy and today you had your chance and you didn't come and the conversation we will make it will be about how we are going to end in a good way this relationship. He said that he is not willing to make any conversation for reconnection because he is angry that I left and since I left that doesn't mean that he will accept to be back with me so for him the conversation will be about how this will end and nothing else. He was keeping saying it that our conversation will be to discuss the end and thats it.He said it around 4-5 times it. And when i asked him so you don't feel anything and want just to discuss the end? He said i have feelings but with the behavior you had I have decided that I want to end things and not try....
"I called him early in the morning and I told him that I will come and he said ok..But then I slept because I was so exchausted and he called me in the afternoon and asked me where are you? I said I din't come because some things came up.He said ok bye"
Oh dear oh dearie me. So now HE'S thinking he got stood up.
Why weren't you just honest and TOLD him you fell asleep through exhaustion?
Still, at least he chased. So it's looking like you won't HAVE to go 'shake him by the shoulders' after all. ....Well, maybe just a tiny shake:
"and the conversation we will make it will be about how we are going to end in a good way this relationship. He said that he is not willing to make any conversation for reconnection because he is angry that I left and since I left that doesn't mean that he will accept to be back with me so for him the conversation will be about how this will end and nothing else. He was keeping saying it that our conversation will be to discuss the end and thats it.He said it around 4-5 times it. And when i asked him so you don't feel anything and want just to discuss the end? He said i have feelings but with the behavior you had I have decided that I want to end things and not try...."
Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-MLEUGH!. Blahblah-BLAH-blah-blah-mleugh-mleugh-MLEUGH!- He doesn't half talk sulky sh*t, doesn't he.
Let's see how easy he finds it to say all of that TO YOUR FACE, looking directly into your EYES, etc., shall we? Unless on the day he turns up wearing a blindfold, a nose-peg and a set of earplugs (and a wiped memory), I don't fancy his chances much, LOL.
You're safe. By Monday he'll have got over himself and having had this taste of his own standing-up medicine, sure as eggs is eggs. WHICH HE DARN WELL KNOWS, HENCE THIS YET FURTHER DELAY TACTIC OF HIS!
Someone should tell him there *still* ain't no arguing with actions, lovely actions (num-num!).
You can exhale and enjoy your weekend now.
What are you thinking of wearing?
I have moooore news he started texting me...we were texting each other for about 4 hours...He send me a text that was saying...I told you we are over...after 2 min he send and the reason is that you re nagging and pushing me...and after one min he snd me: goodbye...I replied to him ok let's meet to talk...he replied that I f#$%%k them all up, so I have to stay alone and if I feel pain I deserve it and it is the smallest thing that he van give me and that I will not take a tiny bit of his feelings... after 3 min. he send again to go there whenever I want to take the rest of the stuff to give him the keys because I bullied him enough, so good luck to me...I replied ok when I will have time I will take my stuff, give him the keys and his ring, and that I don't want to see him again in my life..Then he started sending me textes without me to have time to repsond
He send: Don't you talk about right and wrong..you are irresponsible and ungrateful and now that you must carry your responsibilities you are trying someone else to give them to it..and that the 'bird' left the as-ole finished.. The he send after 3 minutes to find a way to send him the keys and whatever its his...and after 2 minutes he send: That he was an as-ole and the he was patient and that till the end of the week we must tie up the loose ends...Then he texted me tomorrow to go there and give him my stuff
I replied I ll see what I ll do and he replied : to f@##k off and to don't bother him again.
I relplied thank you for the f@$@ wish, so you don't want your stuff? and he said: I don't want to see you again.. and do you want me to come and have sex? I replied do whatever you want and he replied leave it I am talking bulls3its..and the he send good night
So after all these today he wrote the message that we finished... but i don't believe if he means it or it is just because he is angry because his messages showed that he was angry and telling again things to hurt me. First said to meet on Monday, then to go there when I want take my stuff and give the keys. later he said to go by the end of the week to tie up the loose ends , then to go tomorrow to give his stuff and then that he doesn't want to see me again and to don't go. All his messages was like he was screaming something but I don't know what. He said that we are over but why I don't belive him? why I feel that he feels so hurt and his ego doesn't let him say it and he is saying all the other things? Why I think that he is trying to make himself believe that it is over but in reality this is not how he feels? I don't know...Do you think that I see what I want to see? Do you think that this man means the over and I don't want to accept it? Maybe I don't want to understand it?
Tomorrow I will be in the city because I have an appointment. Do you think that it is a good idea to try and meet him or leave it?
I really feel strange after what he wrote and said to me today..I feel better from the other days, more close to him why? something wrong with me? do I see wrong the things and just it is over?
So tomorrow that I will go in the vity for the appointment that I have is it good idea to call him and go and find him or not?
For me it feels like that we both we are screaming for the same thing. I love you some to me.but we are using different words and different tools...I am so wrong?? I have the feeling that this is what he wants, me to go there and find him...Is it possible or I have the feeling because I want to be like this?
He was clearly under the influence of alcohol.
He's reminding me of the pub drunk who comes up to you and, at the first opportunity, convoluted or contrived or not, starts ranting at you about the world, meanwhile trying to implicate you as one of the problem elements in order to manipulate you into thinking you have to stand there and answer for yourself, i.e. TAKE IT (rather than just walk away), and then, once all out of steam, says perfectly friendlily, 'See ya, then, mate!', like nothing's happened. You're stood there, thinking, 'WTF?!...Weeir-dooo'.
I did strongly indicate NOT to argue with him whereas, four long hours' back-and-forth texting that ends in his basically saying eff you shows that a two-player argument is exactly what it was.
This is getting ridiculous. It's a MASSIVE toddler tantrum that just keeps giving. Couldn't you TELL he was drunk or at least talking cranked-up drivel where you could think to say, we should discuss this another time when you're feeling calmer and more reasonable?
Well, anyway... that bit where he suddenly sent the curve ball of 'dya want sex?' tells me that he did finally start to realise how ridiculously he was sounding and behaving so started scrabbling around furiously for a full-stop to it. You've no doubt seen films in which one of the arguing couples unexpectedly inapropos blurts something along the lines of, 'Are you as turned on as *me* right now?'...and the other either indicates yes by suddenly diving into a snog/ripping clothes off or slaps their face with a 'Go to hell!'.
("Leave it, I'm talking bullsh*t". ROFL! No, mate, it's called letting-slip your truer feelings - but, nice try at backtracking.)
He's enjoying this. Well, a part of him is, anyway. In a perverse way. I get the strong sense that he feels dominated and railroaded most of the time (which could NOT solely be down to you, not by a long chalk going by how much ranting he has in him) thus is making a really huge meal out of this, his possibly one and only chance ever to be in the driver's seat and give you all the 'What Fors' that for YEARS he never dared or got opportunity to utter. That's why he felt spent and better enough at the end there to then blurt, Fancy a shag? (Answer: yeah, mate, course.. although first I've just got to staple my tongue to the coffee-table...be with you in a minute).
My point is, GIVEN that opportunity to projectile vomit, you then saw a truer albeit fleeting window.
But he's HATING the fact that you're rising above all his diatribes, that much is obvious. Push-push-push-push - NOW she'll lose it, he's going.
I thought you WERE going to pretend to lose it?
So TODAY he's woken up to find you've not, not even after the fact...not sent any post-scripts, become ticked off at that and....started all over again.
Again, he's not realising he's demonstrating he's still very much IN the relationship, not thinking and behaving like a man who's done AT ALL. So in answer to this question ("He said that we are over but why I don't belive him? why I feel that he feels so hurt and his ego doesn't let him say it and he is saying all the other things? Why I think that he is trying to make himself believe that it is over but in reality this is not how he feels? I don't know...Do you think that I see what I want to see?"
: no, you're seeing just fine. And I'm glad that this time you remembered that's what it means, that it's just anger and trying-to-hurt-you talking.
Ha-ha, this bit was particularly entertaining (and, trust me, you'd laugh too if you weren't the one on the end of it): "Go to the house on Monday.....No, f*ck it, go whenever you like....No, actually, let's put it off for a whole week...No, yes, tomorrow.... No, actually, NEVER".
What you're hearing NOW is this: I (hic) fuchhin' hhhjate you!...BuddiLOVE you really (hic!)...No, I djon't, I hhhjate you!... (and repeat).
So THAT is what you're seeing, THAT is why you feel strange to be feeling encouraged by it and closer to him than before, etcetera. Because the 'I still love yous' are starting to leak out in many and varied ways.
It's progress, Jim, but not as we pigging know it, ROFL!
Call, don't call - that IS your call. You might well just be transferring the medium over which you and he argue but, again, once he clocks you in the flesh, I doubt it. But - "I have the feeling that this is what he wants, me to go there and find him." - YUP!
Why are you even asking that? Didn't I explain right at the beginning that that's what he wants because that's what he's USED to, ergo a variation to the learned screenplay and script gets taken by him as you don't love HIM? That's at baseline (underneath all the convolutedness and over-complicatedness) is what he's consistently, all along been saying.
Poor little Rapunzel. He's in the tower with no way down, throwing his hair out of his turret window, and yet you won't come and fetch him down. LOL
So "you da man", then? Is that how it's always secretly been between you?
Do answer that, but - whatever/whichever... the MAIN thing is that he is definitely DEFINITELY (- OH, *DEFINITELY*) based on the unforgettable memory of this long, drawn-out aggro (for HIM), going to be thinking twice in future before he brings home and takes his moodies out on you in anticipation of you just sitting and taking it or forgiving him the very next hour or day like you used to. Why do you think he's getting it all out in-one right now?
So, Batman, what's the plan?
You already called at the house, didn't you.
You're still there now, aren't you.
('We talking sofa or bed?
I went to the house the next morning without inform him. I opened the door with me keys I went inside in the bedroom where he was sleeping... He opened his eyes and asked me what are you doing here? I said I woke up early and I decided to come. He replied that I didn't invite you and I said you did it yeasterday with your textes but you don't remember it. Then he took me a hug.. He wake up and said that he has to go to work and I said ok I have an appointment in the afternoon as well...He came home after work, he kissed me and we had lunch.Then we slept and in the afternoon he dropped me to my appointment. I said to him do you want me to come hom after I finish or you want me to go. He sadi do whatever you want.I replied thats not an answer say yes or no. He said that he was planning to go for fishing this weekend with his mates and If I want to come back at my parents take my stuff take the dog and go back...I said no it is not working like this.. I can go back at my parents to take stuff and go together for fishing... He said ok I ll think about it..When I got back home from the appointment he told me tomorrow go take stuff and come to go for fishing this weekend.. Then we sat down and we started the talking...He said if you want us to be together you have to stop nagging and push me and do something in your life..( find a job)
P.S about the job thing..I came bach from my masters degree in Augoust and on November it was my graduation and all these moths I am looking for job but I cannot find because things here are really bad. Also as I told you my father is giving me money so I am not dependant on him
I told him that I am looking for job and he knows it and when I am nagging it is because he is not hearing me... And it is not because I don't have a job. He said to me because his job and his financial is not going well we will go to stay at a flat next to his parents!!!!! in two months!!! to save money if we want to marry and have a child...I said to him if you will go to stay at this city I will never find a job and I will be miserable, because there there are no opportunities for me. I said that I did all these studies in order to work and not in order to sit home and do nothing... He said but you don't have a job if you had one we could stay here but now we cannot.. He said that I want everything to work in my way..I am not doing a step back, I am spoiled etc etc. I replied that I made a lot of steps back bacause I am in this city because of our relationship otherwise I will be never coming back to stay here... I am here for us and you are talking to me like I am not here just for fun.. Also I said that If I din't want to find a job I will be never going to study I will be saving my money and I will be sitting till to find somone to live me.. The conversation was going in rounds in this way like I don't care, I don't understand, I am doing whatever I want, I am spoiled, I am not trying blah blah blah. When I asked him If I am this person why you proposed to me??? He replied because Ι was tricked and he laughed!!! I said to him you know that is not true..Also I told him that you are talking about our relationship like it depends on money , like we met yesterday, like it can blow up anytime...Ans I cannot feel that I am your bunching back and you can tell me when to go when to come.. i want to feel safe that whatever happens we discuss it and at the end we know that we are together...
The bad thing of all this story is that this man before I go in UK for my master was totally different...And these words that are coming out it is not his words...But he is the one that choose to say them and have this behavior... What makes my angry is that he already discussed with his parents if he will mobe etc and he didn't discuss them with me...And it is supposed that since he is my fiance I was the first person that he had to make a discussion with...Also because I think that he is afraid of my reactions and he cannot confort me he chose to have this manipulative behavior to me in order to make me do what he wants...So, I am back to my parents to take some stuff and go for a weekend with him...But, I want to know how I can manipulate him...and become the one that he used to be..the one that was next to me and was putting our relationship in first order...
He couldn't discuss them with you, surely, because you and he weren't talking at the time? But I get what you're saying, anyway: He's trying to tell you what's happening, supposedly whether you like it or not, just take it or leave it.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to that. You've got to realise his emotions and ego haven't finished settling down yet - it was only yesterday that you shocked him down a little by turning up, and you and he have only had the one (cough!) nap. It'll take a few more days and 'naps' for him to finish that coming-down process.
I'm glad you went round and burst the negative bubble, although...bit naughty to turn up that early and shock him awake like that, wasn't it? Think about if you'd woken up to find him in your bedroom; that would have been quite a shock for him. Yet I note he didn't have a go at you for it. He could have done, you realise - he was perfectly entitled?
Do you really think this whole blow-out was engineered by him, purely and deliberately for the purposes of getting you into a position and state wherein you wouldn't dare veto this change of plans of his? I'm not so sure... At least, I hope not or that would have to make him an outright Machievelli of gobsmacking proportions. And were that the case, I doubt you'd be seeing it for the first time ever only this week.
Plus, the fact it just doesn't make sense to in one breath insist you finally get a job and in the next, announce a condition(?) to reconciling that basically means you'll have even less chance of finding one. And if something doesn't make sense like that then it means there's a lie or a pandering to a fear involved.
I would have thought it was more a case of him just seizing what looked like having turned into a giant opportunity, i.e. that he HAD planned to consult with you but figured yesterday, on-the-spot, to try to make Lemonade out of the situational lemons, that you might suddenly be suitably receptive to following his every command dutifully like a little lamb, in which case why not just give it a try and see what your reaction was.
FYI, Mr Soulmate tried that one in our first proper phone conversation. He was going to stay in France and I could, 'if I wanted', either move there to henceforth live with him or we could revert to long distance. He knew I couldn't leave England because of my son so I just ignored that bit and instead queried him over the latter (so-called) proposition in terms of its logistics. He didn't like that for what he thought it signified (my finding the idea of effectively demoting our relationship an appealing one) so very cockily said, but I would be the one to do the travelling each visiting time. He sounded very convincing at the time so I pretended I bought it (although a small part of me did worry he was serious for a moment there) and didn't like the insult it represented - me becoming permanent Mohammed to his stock-still, lackadaisical Mountain - in order that I could call his bluff.
So this was when I suddenly went all quiet and both sad- and disgusted-sounding and said, 'I've made a HUGE mistake...I shouldn't have rung [etc.]....I'm going to go now [which is where he started desperately trying to interrupt and talk over me], I want to go now, sorry, and thank-you for every-...'. And here was when he suddenly went, 'WOAH, STOP, WAIT A MINUTE!' and started to furiously backpedal, making out that he'd just been throwing IDEAS around for us to just consider.
It had been nothing but Poker, him pretending he had the upper hand (called, you love and need me more than I do you)... trying it on....simply because it was worth a shot. But not for getting me to agree to any silly plan per se. Just to see how over-willing and over-pliable I was suddenly prepared to be. Was I desperate to stay with him merely out of fear of being alone and single [never!] or was I with him out of *choice*, i.e. definitely loved *HIM* the individual? And where was my breaking point?
It was all nonsense, him on the one hand fishing for compliments and on the other, testing me out to see to what extent from then on I'd be prepared to let him get his spoiled-baby way. He didn't even WANT to be a spoiled baby like that, nor even to move back to France. It was just an egotistical button-push to see what my reaction would be and whether he could henceforth be Hitler *generally*. And it wasn't even him doing this thinking and stating, it was his silly ego (that hadn't yet gone far enough back into its cage and back to sleepybyes). I then told him ENOUGH stupidity, that if it hadn't BEEN for this type of stupidity from him and him having allowed himself to utter such unacceptable, deal-breaker things during the fight and push me beyond my limit, I would never have chucked him out in the first place, it could have just stayed a normal marital spat. That, hearing me care enough to lecture him, was what had him suddenly saying yes he did love me and asking to come home. (Before that day, whenever I'd asked if he still loved me, he'd persistently been switching from yes to don't know (because he was so angry).)
So everything you're recounting here is sounding uncannily similar to me, in which case, I would take it all with a pinch of salt if I were you.
Has he got money worries, do you know? Is that why he likes the idea of you two basically downsizing your accommodation and its prominence of location - in order to pay a much lower monthly rental? If he's got genuine money pressures or worries and needs a greater contribution from you than is presently possible with the amount of allowance your dad gives you, then, no wonder he got so overly stressed in the first place. So maybe your relationship, or getting to continue to live together, DOES depend on money and he's all this time, until now, been too proud to sit you down and show you the state of the/his finances?
But let's pretend he does mean it ...or does mean it a little. Could you not commute to work, does any job you find have to be situated within the town you live in?
Also, is the reason he's ticked off about you not working because there in fact IS work around and it's just that you're being too proud to accept anything that doesn't require or involve a degree (and preferably yours specifically)? Or does he think that you have insufficient mental, day-to-day stimulation to let his routine yet otherwise harmless idiot moments slide by without you (his perception) turning them into causes for arguing?
If it's the the latter suspicion, then, do you suppose his point of view is that he really, genuinely just can't HELP his idiot moments and that maybe if you came home after a hard day's work, as knackered as him, and he acted up, you might be more inclined to just say, 'Aw, PTH, stop talking nonsense' through being too tired to leap on it or pick him up over it?
If you don't mind my asking (it could be a factor): How regularly do you and he have sex every week?
I am starting with your last question: we used to have sex around 3 times a week BUT the last period that he is like this we had sex maybe once per week.And mostly he was asking it..because I think that I was soo angry with him and I never tried, or maybe I didn't care..and all these started when he changed to me..his behavior was like pushing me away and the truth is that I became so distant with him and yes I was nagging because he was not hearing me whatever I was saying for him was like non sense and whenever I was telling him that I feel like this nand this he was becoming angry and was stopping the conversation. Actually the last period he was reacting to everything that I was doing and saying and I was feeling like I am a mum and my son is telling me stupid lies for no reason, is reacting to any of my words etc etc.
The thing about the money is true.I mean we are in Greece and things here are really really bad! But if he is going to stay in the town with his parents I don't think that he will save a lot money because it is just the rent...Also in that town which is almost a village I cannot find anything,,,I grow up there and there are not so many opportunities for jobs..In the place that we are staying now is so much bigger and for sure it will be easier for me to find something here.But this period even if the people that have jobs lost them so it is not the thing that there are jobs and I am choosing.Also if i will have to find a job which is out of my interest, the payment is lower form the money that I have from my father which is the point to do something that I don't like for 8-9 hrs a day and have a payment lower than the one that I already have?? Another important thing is that I stayed here because of him, I mean he has his job base here and is the one that is not willing to go in any other place (excpet from his family town) if he was not here and I was not with him I will be going anywhere... But yesterday he told me that if I will find a job we will stay here..But that's the real problem? or the thing that he discussed and decided everything eith his family and I am the last one to know? Another issue that I found out today.. The last 3 days he came in contact through fb with an ex friend with benefits..We didn't do anything...till now but they were talking to go somewhere this weekend but he cancelled it..So the fishing with his mates that he was saying was not fishing it was meeting with her (she stays in another city 2hrs from here). So for me this is like let's open my opportunities and I will see... Is like he started to search..All these years that we were together his laptop hadn't got a code and his phone as well but now both of them have code...Maybe he started to think to find something else before to leave me?
Of course he desn't know that I found these messages...and of course I will not say anything..but it is like he started to llok around and he is not thinking to try with me...
Greek. Ah-hah. Yes, I could tell you weren't English, albeit speak it very well. Very interestingly, however - you do have almost the exact same sentance structures as my husband when he's speaking and typing English, which is what had me wondering at one point if you weren't French or Italian too.
Well, anyway, in that case - Ya-sou!
1. "I am starting with your last question: we used to have sex around 3 times a week BUT the last period that he is like this we had sex maybe once per week.And mostly he was asking it..because I think that I was soo angry with him and I never tried, or maybe I didn't care..and all these started when he changed to me..his behavior was like pushing me away"
Three times per week during sunshine and once per week during rain, is far higher than the average for a couple of your age...the real weekly average, I mean, not the widespread public lie. So, yep, like mine, he's got a LOT of testosterone, your boy. (And so have you, albeit somewhat less than him.)
Explains a lot. Also explains why  he - strangely, you'd think - gave you that hello hug and  calmed down a little after the wink-wink-nudge nap. ('A little' because after this recent, very long abstinence he would have needed to have had sex for a whole day straight to be able to calm down ALL the way).
What would you say if I told you the definitive bottom-line in terms of the power supply to all of this is that, as I say, you've got a Med bloke with BIG testosterone, hence a very high sex drive, and that when very sexy men like that don't get to discharge it via either sex or sport/exercise/manual labour, it can start to lower their mood, behaviour and powers of reasoning (in the same way as when hormonal peaks and troughs give women PMT or Ovulation Blues)?
Maybe you do know. But, it's a Catch 22, isn't it: Because he needs sex he gets on your case and because he gets on your case he doesn't get sex and so because he needs sex that much more he gets on your case that much more and because he gets on your case that much more he doesn't get sex and so-... (You get the gist.) And the more you fail to have as much sex as you ideally need, the more the tempers start to come out... and AGAIN, yours to a lesser degree than his. (Ha-ha! If your libido level were as high as his, this guy would be months dead already! Good job it isn't, eh!)
Again, Mr Soulmate is the same, albeit that what tends to get in our bedroomy way on fairly rare occasions is practical impediments. But, still, the 'over-frustrated' ball gets sparked into rolling in that same way.
So it's official, then, as far as I'm concerned: he really CAN'T help his moodies and nor does he have cognition enough once he gets set off, to be able to stop himself. Not when he's anywhere between randy and over-frustrated. And this time he was over-frustrated......and you know the rest.
The good news on that score, however, is that, even aside from any intervention measures were they to be taken, he will, because of his age, soon start to ever-increasingly calm down and no longer experience such massive mood peaks/drops.
But back to the here and now...
2. So it's sexual frustration PLUS the work stress PLUS the leaning on the parents too much for guidance and the downside being their feeling they've a right to interfere PLUS his core baggage of 'not being bossed around and made someone's slave' (which becomes his platform for expressing his sexual frustration) PLUS money worries PLUS the fact you, thanks to your own high hormone levels, cannot help but rise to his negative bait PLUS...one you probably haven't ever been aware of:
Irrespective that what I'm about to describe makes him a bit of a blinkered hypocrite or chauvenist (culturally?) - I suspect that he feels his manhood is being challenged or hampered either directly or inadvertently by your dad. I think he wants to get you OFF of dad's 'purse-strings' and onto his own. HE wants to be your Provider, not your dad. It's creating a psychological tug-of-war in your bfs head. And you're the rope.
This - being your provider - he cannot do if you're to not work or are to work from home/start your own little business and your allowance isn't still coming in. However, the loss of that regular sum would be slightly made up for if he didn't have to pay his AND YOUR rent (- a considerable annual sum despite you don't seem to think so). You wouldn't HAVE to work, as in, because there was no choice (although could if you *wanted* to). TA-DAAA! He wants to be the sole bread-winner, with you merely the secondary/minor bread-winner. AND NOT YOUR DAD NOR ANY OTHER MALE IN YOUR LIFE.
And he wants you to get yourself, with his help, into a position to have a baby. And be a proper, full-time, unstressed, luxuriating mother. What better position than if you're either not working or working only part-time?
Understand, now, why he wants you and he to move there and/OR why he wants you to get a job? It's all just gone click-click-clickety-click, hasn't it?
This issue (as contributes to the overall issue package) is GENUINE, but the fight and fury part - i.e. how the bugbears of the present situation and future potential worries are handled - are not (they're just hormonal symptoms getting in the mix).
(Is this making sense to you?)
If you two were further down the relationship line thus that bit more wise and clued-up about how you and he click as a single entitied unit, you would not only be used to this sexual-frustration pattern but would recognise all its behavioural clues (in yourself as well as in him) whilst they were still in their infancy and be able to act to nip it in the bud or prevent it altogether. Obviously you can't be expected to live your life being constantly vigilant in his direction, watching for signs, and having to have sex even when you don't want to, just to keep him sweet and not behaving like an arse, even if only occasionally. Nor should you. However, SAYING that: you know as well as I do that men like this are not only very libidinous but highly romantic, passionate and AMAZING in bed, and that, even on those occasions where you're convinced you're really not in the mood that particular week, once you get started you're suddenly straight back into it and very, very pleased *and grateful* you were talked or manoeuvred into it, and thinking, why on earth did I think I didn't feel like it? Plus, it is a GREAT way for encouraging calm and positively-handled discussions (afterwards), and also it manages to dissolve a lot of the resentment, sometimes all of it in one.
4. So!... If you don't want to have to get rid of a man who's normally a total sweetie, all because he has just this wee SLIVER of a fault (as extreme as his personality it may be)... If that's his only fault worth writing home about, then... just be SEMI-vigilant. One, keeping your eye on the ball [pun unintentional] is GOOD for you as well as him. It's healthy to live just a tiny bit - just enough - on your toes because it stops you from taking one another for granted as well as helps keep the frisson and honeymoon feeling fully active. Two, it's a VERY NICE method of maintaining both your mood levels and sense of cosy closeness thus harmony. Three, it keeps your reproductory gear in top shape (and eager to please), not to mention your physique and skin. Four, it keeps you feeling and looking young and bushy-tailed. Five-... Hell, you don't need me to point out all the pros of sex. Sex is HUGELY important to a romance IF THAT'S THE TYPE YOU ARE, and anyone who IS that type yet tries to say otherwise is kidding themselves.
It's all too easy for couples to fall out of the habit of sh*gging like bunnies, like they used to during the Honeymoon Period. Having that much sex was one of the main reasons WHY they felt like they were on this constant high. Life, with its normal sh*t and grind, however, seems to want to pull you both apart that way. So if you have a motive to keep that side of things up... If a relationship has to be willingly worked at and maintained ANYWAY (which it does)... then, if you think about it - isn't this method just the nicest method 'him up there' could have dealt you?
Put it this way: some women have to sit and listen for hours on end about a guy's problems... Whinge-whinge-whinge, like he thinks they're his free-of-charge, secret-behind-closed-doors therapist. But types like you and I hitched to types like them, get to have FUN AND (if you're true soulmates of a certain stage) WONDERMENT OR A SPIRITUAL TOP-UP instead!
5. Back to the job: you don't have to do something you'd hate. But you'd be surprised how enjoyable *any* job, as long as it suits even a part of you, can be. In fact, often it's the people you work for and with, and the social life that follows, that make a job enjoyable or not. So if you had to choose a stop-gap job, just something to keep you busy and interested and enhance your weekly life as well as your relationship, what would it be? Try, What would it be if you DIDN'T have a degree?
I think he's got a valid point, you know. I think he's actually trying to be a really good husband already (bar the moods and temper, OBVIOUSLY). Trust me, XJTERRY, there are so many women - particularly in today's bad economy - who really do have to work despite just having had their first ever baby, and it 'kills' them, knowing that some childminder or nanny, or basically anyone that's NOT THEM, is getting the benefit instead of them of all the best perks and joys of motherhood, like seeing your baby suddenly get on his feet and toddle towards you with the sweetest, most angelic little smile of surprised ecstasy you've ever seen in your life, ETCETERA. If you DON'T "have to" work... if when you fall pregnant when not yet sucked into your career and still in the type of non-serious job that you can turn your back on any time you see fit...then, you have a choice open to you that a lot of women desperately wish they had.
Why can't you have your baby and as relaxed a motherhood as possible 'now' and then start your career afterwards? Particularly as by then you might be so much more confident, mature and wise, that it gives you a market 'edge'?
XJTERRY, today *my* little 'baby' made me gaffaw my face off - for the very first time using truly *adult* humour...
I had written a Wednesday To Do list of the most important things not to forget, left by the kettle in the kitchen, which went thus:
- Wash & iron [kid's] fave wkend t-shirts
- Order more [x]
- Email for repeat prescription of [x]
- Check MOT date
Mr Soulmate left before either one of us were awake (and had left a message on the bottom of the page, under this list, wishing us both a good day with added loving sentiments]. Son then left just before I woke.
When I went down to make my morning cuppa, first I noticed Mr S's message. Then I noticed that kid had piss-takingly added in writing another bullet point. My To Do list now looked like this:
- Wash & iron [kid's] fave wkend t-shirts
- Order more [x]
- Email for repeat prescription of [x]
- Check MOT date
- Dominate the world.
ROLL ON FLOOR LAUGHING!!!!!
Maybe you'd have to be me, but I laughed so incredibly long and hard at this cutely cheeky, really quite clever and sophisticated (for his age), semi-satirical witticism (and am still chuckling at it now, 17 hours on) that I've decided I'm going to have it framed to hang on the wall, pride of place. It's one of those landmark events. One of the more delightful perks of parenthood.
Why is my kid so advanced for his age and always has been (and I'm talking publicly-recognised fact, not the usual parental delusion)? Easy: Because I deliberately, purposefully and willingly stopped work during his babyhood and right up until he ceased being 'little' and needing so much attention. (Knowing all that I know about what it takes to produce and rear an optimally happy and healthy kid and still insisting on carrying on working formally during his formative years and whilst still needing me, despite financially I had no need to (lucky me), I'd have to have been a total cow.) And when I started again, I did so from home (- Mr S and I became partners in our own biz, which is why I'm already constantly at the computer, most days).
There are pros and cons to EVERYTHING. No one thing is total-quantum-ly better than another thing. Everything has upsides and downsides in equal measure. Things are just SAME BUT DIFFERENT. This life is 'same sh*t, same joy, different location and faces'.
I know for a first-hand fact what I'm talking about because I've DONE the top-flight career and the stay-at-home/work-from-home mum BOTH.
Don't burn or disregard your options. Speak to other mothers and house-husbands. And really listen. Those that were working-commuting mothers/fathers and loved it, those that were stay-at/work-from-home types and loved it, those that gave up work completely and made a full-time job out of their child's rearing and made up for not working through other stimulating and challenging interests. Those that did EITHER of those, but hated it, you don't need to waste your time talking to...because the truth is, those women and men weren't going to be happy no matter WHAT they did or didn't do. The problem stemmed from and resided inside them and they merely BLAMED whatever their situation was in life for the fact that if one carries a significantly-affecting problem for long enough without it getting dealt with/solved, then it's hard to be in the mood day after day to have fun and feel contented FULL-STOP. Look at celebrities who seemingly have a really cushy, want-for-nothing life. Some are happy. Some are downright miserable and it shows. Never blame the tool itself. Just the user.
This would be an important exercise whether your future husband is this man or any man.
Are you getting all of this?
6. Now back to the here and now and this sudden new development... this (what I suspect is) FB nonsense. I mean, it *could* be a genuine event and problem which makes all of the above and what's been said and advised before a moot point, but - let's see... Personally, I suspect not because this is yet *another* 'old chestnut' of a trick when playing Power Struggle Poker that I've seen too many people use.
First, let's establish - Did you see the exchange with your very own eyes whereby you know this story is a fact, or is this just what he TOLD you went on?
Damnit! I actually started this post to you HOURS ago but then had to leave it until now, as meant you hadn't at that point added your very last message as already answers that end question of mine.
Okay, so it did happen and he isn't even aware that you've found and read the evidence.
If he *was* tempted (- not least because of aching b*lls and 6 weeks being a very long time to go without sex), it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't love you but it DOES mean he suffered a huge loss of faith. No doubt over whether you and he are truly compatible enough to last the rest of your lives, rather than end up divorced one day (with a kiddie involved).
"Maybe he started to think to find something else before to leave me?"
Yup. He did. But now you have to think about what his true motivation and intention was, as well as bear in mind what it means that he cancelled it off his own bat.
So what he did was FLIRTED, basically, isn't it. And only whilst yours and his relationship was so up in the air.
Is this a dealbreaker for you? Or, when leaving aside the fact it shows he thinks he can't live without you unless someone is in your seat to keep him constantly distracted from and comforted under grief and/or cannot face a period of singledom (- that huge libido again and maybe a personal inadequacy of his), do you think that was a natural, albeit alarming, symptom (or nearly-symptom) under the circumstances?
It is ONE foot on the thinnest end of the Cheating wedge, yes. But do we put it down to pure fantasy, given now, and focussing on the fact that, he chose to then take that foot off again? And fairly rapidly?
Did he do it for mercenary reasons, i.e. intended to just use this woman as a confidence aid when it came to facing you and stating his terms and conditions in a way where you'd sit up and take notice?....meaning, he never genuinely intended to DO anything with her except for what he did do (which was flirt)?
If you were telling me he HAD met her or that SHE had been the one to cancel, I would right now be urging you to "dump the dud", no doubt about it. But that's not what happened, so... Over to you and what you think and feel about it.
What's happening, XJ? Are you so quiet all of a sudden because you and Droopy-Drawers are finally hashing things out and reconciling? And if so, does that mean you indeed did manage to find out that that so-called nearly-liaison was at the time a deliberately-contrived circumstance that he was banking on you all too easily coming across in case he needed to crank you keener?
Hey, I was silent because we left for a weekend and we went for camping at the see. We had actually good time we met some other couples that we meet every summer and we had a good relaxed time. He started to be sweet and caring to me but I have all the things that happened in my mind plus the fb thing and I was feeling strange. All the things that he did and said to me didn't stop to go around in my mind all the time until now. And the bad thing is that he is not willing to do a proper conversation with me, to sit down and discuss what hapenned what will happen. Maybe he will say one two things but then he will go silent or maybe become angry, shout a bit in order to stop the conversation. For example I asked him why you never came to take me back...He replied you left me...I said yes I left you because something happened but why you never came to me...If I was not coming back what would be happening? Then he said again you left me and you were nagging and come on let's go out for a walk because you need fresh air... Also he told me that he said to his family ( parent's, grandparent's) that he will break up with me because I am nagging and they replied to him ok if she is like this so end it.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yesterday when we were comng back we said to stop and buy a sandwich to eat. He asked me will you go to take it? I said no you go..and then he said all the time I am the one that goes to take what you need, I am not a slave..you think you are a princess? So, he didn't stop and said to me now you will stay hungry! I said both of us will stay hungry and why you react to everything I am saying in a way like we are 5 y.o and we have a battle between us? Then he said oh! you started after twon days to nag again.. I know that the same will happen with you..you didn't understand anyhting all the period that we were apart, you didn't think your behavior at all...that is not good..I told him that I thought what I had to think but in this relationship I am not alone and I am not the one that I have to try he has to try as well and the easiest thing is to point the finger to the other person..Then he replied ok stop you started your 'psychological' things again and he volumed up the music in the car and stopped the conversation... I really don't know why he shows me like this. I mean when I will say anything he will react. Like we are in a battle and the point is who is going to be the winner.. He never had these issues with me. Now he is reacting and say I am nagging.But I don't understand when I am nagging and I mean that I feel that every time that I talk he says I am nagging. he sayd that I want to control him and these kind of things...
Also about the fb messages I don't know the exact conversation that they had because I only saw her replies on his email ( I am using his email and there you can see the messages from others in fb) So what I saw was that one day she sent: 'g.morning..what we will do?..will you book it?'
I don't know what to book or what they were talking about I suppose maybe to go somewhere for the weekend...Then two days later she send: 'g.morning I wake up and I am at work' again I don't know what he wrote and she replied: 'it is ok...we can arrange it for another time'
Again I suppose that he replied to her that the weekend is cancelled... For sure their first contact started a week ago..Also for sure they didn't meet. So they talked for first time on Monday, I came back on Wed. and the last message about cancellation was on Friday. Ok they didn't meet but how I will know if they will not do it another time? I mean he tried with this girl to meet and she was totally available...so good for his ego!!! How I will know if one of the next days they will arrange again to meet? I know all these things and I am feeling strange.. He doesn't know that I know all these...But i worry I feel like I must look his step in order to prevent this meeting but again this is not good.. I cannot blame him because ok we were6 weeks apart and it was like i abandoned him but on the other hand this is not an excuse. I left and we were apart and instead of trying to solve our thing you are trying to find an ex available girl and go a weekend with her??? So that means you don't care for the relationship so much and the most important thing for you is to fill the gap...
And I must find out why his behavior is like this...But since he is not willing to say how I will find out? The only indicators that I have from his spare words is that: I am nagging, I am not leaving space to him and pushing him, I don't have a job and that we will move at his parents... And the funny thing with this man is that all these years he was telling me that his mum needs limits, because if she has space in our life will do things bad, that she is a jealous person and liar... and now he was telling me that you have problem with my mun, my dad etc...and I will do whatever I want with them and it is not your business..and I said yes it is not my business what has to do in your relationship with them but it is my business what has to do with our relationship and them and I don't have problem with people that didn't do anything to me, but with the people that done something to me I need them away from me in order to protect me...And he knows very well what problems we had all these years with them.I mean they didn't want our relationship and also he said that his mum cannot control me and that is driving her crazy and he was so happy that I was not a person to manipulate me and have her in our every day life. He didn't even want to stay there more than 1-2 days because he was saying they were driving him crazy. And the funniest thing is that before to leave in U.K for my master I asked him if he wants to go and stay at his parents because I will be away a year, so he can save money...And he said are you crazy? If I will stay there they will drive me mad!!! and now he wants to go there, and started to have fights with me because I don't want to do and accept things that until now he didn't want as well. A total change!!! and I don't know how that happened!!! I became suddently the enemy and I don't know why...this is so crazy... And i don't feel ok, all these things had left me with a bitter taste and I am not sure if I can do something or if I am out of the game and he is doing what is he doing...so confused
Today at the afternoon we went at my parent's house to take some of my stuff and our dog. Till the time that we arrived there everything was good. He came back from the job today he was sweet huging and kissing me tec. So we went there, I was packing my stuff and he went at his parent's for 30 minutes. When he came back from there he told me that this Saturday it is a edding in which his sister is best woman. He told me to take clothes for the Saturday and I told him that right now is impossible because I cannot find anything since my mother put the in the wardrobes and she is away till Friday and I said to him that I will go one of the next days to find them. So we left and in the car he started telling me that he didn't ask me to go back and why I went back in the morning and open the door without him to invite me and that again it happened what I wanted. Then he started telling me that I am in a try, and we will see if we will continue to be together because it seems that i didn't understand anything and again I am trying to do what I want...He was screaming and was totally different from the time that we went there. Now we arrived home and he is not talking to me.He listens music ,drinking wine and told me not to talk to him....
I'm surprised you agreed to go anywhere with him, let alone chose to behave like everything was done and dusted and back to normal, particularly as your mind indeed would have still been reeling with it all. And I'm surprised he invited you, given how supposedly he'd been anywhere between convinced the relationship was over and stuck hard in ambivalance. Maybe if a proper debrief had been your hard and fast condition to going camping, he might have? What I mean is, it's no good complaining that HE'S pretending like nothing happened if, with your actions, you're going to. But - wow - HE certainly made a quick recovery, didn't he? Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.
You're right, he is very manipulative when he thinks he needs to be.
Well, blocking understanding, re-agreement and closure - by in his case employing avoidancy or aggression tactics - is not only emotionally stupid but indicates he doesn't mind the thought of a recurrence. And if he doesn't, then he must like it (or how well it works for him, I should say). Or simply, KNOWS he behaved like a prize tw*t and doesn't want to address his temper and ego issues.
Don't worry about his family. One, they received a wholly biased account and, two, they sound like they suspected they did and were just playing Devil's Advocate, as in, 'Oh, is she - then PROVE it!'. That he hasn't and what that means will not escape their notice or be lost on them. So that's just him trying to call in the troops to make you retreat, stance-wise.
Interesting that what he sees as being your slave is what other, more mature and level-headed men see as Wooing and acting like the benign leader. Told you - he's hypersensitive, lately, at anything he perceives to be remotely like his being told what to do - because of his other-aspect circumstances. So he's STILL taking things that aren't your fault out on you, then, isn't he.
"why you react to everything I am saying in a way like we are 5 y.o and we have a battle between us? Then he said oh! you started after twon days to nag again."
That is not nagging. That is refusing to be manipulated and controlled by, frankly, Nazi behaviour, refusal to let things - things that keep repeating - go unsorted. So if he's that averse to your attempts to side-step his control methods then the conclusion is simple: HE is the one who wants a slave... and if he *cannot* master them, he 'slaps' them with his own bad label in order to cow or wear them down.
I cannot BELIEVE he would take the risk of pushing you over the edge when already you were still so close to it! Clearly him getting to be constant boss means more to him than keeping his relationship with a woman, keeping a woman he supposedly loves enough to marry in his life.
Yes, correct, you are in a battle. Is that because it got interrupted prematurely, meaning he's still in Twat mode, not having had the opportunity or not having had, full-stop, to question and learn a thing? Or is it because he isn't interesting in changing and wants a relationship only if he gets to constantly be the top-dog and controller, even in Situation Normal? I don't see how any rational man can possibly call losing you, 'winning', but, anyway... You knew him before this debacle, so - what's the true answer to that question, XJTERRY? And don't say he never had these issues with you because the way he's acting is too full-on to have begun only recently... it has to be what's secretly lain beneath all this time and just now come to the surface, meaning, you would have had little flashes before today. Have a think.
The other possibility is that he's demonizing you. And if he's doing that, which is highly characteristic of a man trying to convince himself he's less guilty than he is for cheating because he's cheating on a "right cow", then either he has already been recently cheating on you OR that recent opportunity was enough on its own to mean guilt still has to be got around, somehow, and additionally to make the (artificial) power go to his head. In other words, his whole behaviour, now, is smacking of, 'I don't need you so you'd better suit me by adhering to my terms and conditions alone if you want me to WANT you'.
However, if what you're saying is you're using his email with his blessing, i.e. that's a pre-existing thing that he's well aware of, then obviously he would KNOW that you'd be able to see his flirting with this woman via the emailed FB alerts. But that still amounts to attempted cowing and controlling via emotional threat and manipulation.
"'g.morning..what we will do?..will you book it?'"
I think he did use her... set her up for your 'benefit' because - look - he hadn't made his invitation real and concrete by agreeing the venue and time at the point where he invited her to meet him.
'Book it'. You book a theatre, a restaurant, a train seat, a hotel. She says 'do', not 'go'. Not hotel, then. But other than that, she didn't have a clue what he (was pretending he) had in mind.
" 'it is ok...we can arrange it for another time'"
HE should have been the one to have said that already, whereby she wouldn't have to.
Yup, she's just a tool. He doesn't and didn't want her. However, IF she'd been the only option (because you'd stayed away or you and he hadn't got back in contact and then back together *as if* reconciled and all things forgiven) then she would have been better than nothing (and better than his right hand, if you get my meaning).
But even so...
He's too immature and emotionally clueless for you, XJTERRY. He wants a serious relationship but, having sampled it with you, has found he can't hack the fact it involves constant negotiation and compromise. So he's trying to see if he can emotionally manoeuvre you into a forevermore, constantly subservient position...basically so that he'll get to get all the perks of a marriage without the hard work and sacrifice. He's not looking for a partner, but an appendage or accessory.
Dump the dud. Everything is reversible, it takes TWO to make a break-up remain a break-up, and a man who truly loves you will do ANYTHING (this case, just what's FAIR) to keep you and not let you leave him and move on. He needs proof-positive this drastic action of yours, that although you want a for-life relationship you are NOT going to sacrificingly dump your needs and principles at the threshold. Only people who are desperate do that.
Maybe if and after you've dumped him - shown him you actually can - then when he chases you back down he WILL be ready to talk and make reparations and agreements for going forward. If not? You'll have lost nothing but a chocolate teapot despot who isn't qualified to be anyone's husband (let alone father).
Tell him he either sits down for a proper, CALM, CONTROLLED AND DIGNIFIED debrief already or you're OH YOO TEE, OUT! That is my advice. And it is because nothing else can work with this guy (plus you've tried everything that's in your power and dignity to try).
You're far too intelligent (*and* healthy- and clear-minded) for him. Or so he'd have himself and us believe. And nor is he any different from his mother, by all accounts and events (, the stupid hypocrite).
With a bit of training, I think you'd make an *excellent* barrister, by the way.
Are you less confused now I've articulated the remainder of how you're feeling for you?
"Today at the afternoon we went at my parent's house to take some of my stuff and our dog. Till the time that we arrived there everything was good. He came back from the job today he was sweet huging and kissing me tec. So we went there, I was packing my stuff and he went at his parent's for 30 minutes. When he came back from there he told me that this Saturday it is a edding in which his sister is best woman. He told me to take clothes for the Saturday and I told him that right now is impossible because I cannot find anything since my mother put the in the wardrobes and she is away till Friday and I said to him that I will go one of the next days to find them. So we left and in the car he started telling me that he didn't ask me to go back and why I went back in the morning and open the door without him to invite me and that again it happened what I wanted. Then he started telling me that I am in a try, and we will see if we will continue to be together because it seems that i didn't understand anything and again I am trying to do what I want...He was screaming and was totally different from the time that we went there. Now we arrived home and he is not talking to me.He listens music ,drinking wine and told me not to talk to him...."
I rest my case.
Dump him. Dump him to teach him a lesson he'll never forget or dump him for real. Whichever. Whichever you want right now or to have the time and space to really see what you want.
The way he's been behaving and treating you lately...
That's all I can say.
Seriously, refuse to continue being this man's victim. You are not a victim, XJTERRY.
I am thinking to dump him but I am not doing it because he never was like this.NEVER!!! I don't understand what happened! I told him again we are not enemies and all thse years we were next to each other..He said and because you were next to me that means that you will do whatever you want, be the princess and me the slave? All these words are soooooooooo strange! why he suddently sees me like this? why? I feel like give him time and maybe to understand what is happening but every time like today that he visited his parents he changed he started again to be distant and say that again happened what I want to happen...I know that I am not a victim but why I became a victim since nothing changed at my behavior? He was saying why you came back? I was relaxed before you to come back!! But he was the one that didn't ask me to leave, he was the one that asked me to go for weekend..What is happening every time that visits his family? He loves me before and after the visit he hates me...he sees me like an enemy that I doing bad to him...And trust me all the previous years he was not like this...no way...he was not talking to me like this...never!!! he was so sweet, so caring, so into me... now? another person...And me Iam trying to figure out what is hapenning, why he became like this...but belive me I am with one foot out..
Also in the car today he was telling me that I am dependant to other people.And when I asked him in which people I am dependant he said I am dependant to my dad and to him.And I told him that I am dependant to myself because I am taking all the decisions about my life alone without the help of others. Iam doing what I want and the only thing that my father is doing is to support mr economically. and about him, if he thinks that I dependant to him because I am with him maybe he forgot that we are a couple.
I am so angry with him and I am really thinking of startinn searching for jobs in other cities without him to know anything and when I will find one I will just leave...Because with this behaviour he needs something like this to understand one day that he played really bad with the wrong person... You cannot behave like this and the only excuses that you use is that I don't have a job.i am nagging and I am doing whatever I want...and until now you were so proud of me and suddedly you are saying that I am not doing anything... He became sooo mean....
Well, then, all I can say is he hid this inner monster of his whilst putting on his halo act VERY WELL, and for as long as he humanly could - maybe because he wanted to ensure he bagged you, which quickly became, didn't want to lose you - but then (with the added straws on the camels back from work?) finally had to go, PLEUGH!, and let his truer colours show... with this fight, this opportune 'sabbatical' from good conduct being the perfect excuse to let his a*se hang out where it could finally be seen...and now, having let it grow these last weeks, the sad fact is he can't get it to fit back in his trousers. So out it's staying. Hence why, WEEKS after he should have calmed down and re-seen sense, he seems (emphasis on 'seems'
He's not incapable. He's perfectly calm and has been for weeks. Regarding roused emotions from actual fight night, I mean. No, what you're seeing now is how his true but until-now hidden colours react when even slightly irritated and not obeyed ("ya vul!"
If this fight hadn't happened, you might not have seen them until some farther flung occasion.
This fight brought the zit out and to an immediate head, in record time. POP!............... Pus. ....XHTerry's there going, 'Ugh - what the hell?!'.
Does that make sense to you? It does commonly happen, you know.
So, correction: He has never behaved like this ***IN FRONT OF ME*** before.
There's the difference that makes ALL the difference.
So he made *himself* a slave, then, didn't he... by choosing to play the total angel - 'Yes, gorgeous, whatever you say, darling, anything you want, petal' (etc.,), enough whereby you were left totally convinced he was the genuine article (and must have felt supremely lucky for a while there).
Only he wasn't an angel. As we now see... I mean, you can cross and enfuriate an angel as much as you like but they're NEVER going to sink to the depths nor width of nastiness, bulshiness, disrespect, attempts to humiliate, and cruelty that this guy has subjected you to for the last (what is it now?) seven weeks.
No, degree (and sustenance) speaks volumes. In fact, it's the decider as far as I'm concerned.
"I'm an angel - buy me!"
So you signed on the dotted line (almost).
So, then the fight's rattled his veneer off and he's let it all hang out... and felt immense relief....so much so, he doesn't now want to go back to being who he's *not* - ever. Because he doesn't HAVE to any more. Because his FWB is interested in playing free prostitute again. Equals, safety-net, equals, doesn't mind falling (or jumping).
He'll get to her later. If he has to. Right now, she's sat nicely warmed and ready, on the side. Waiting.
Well, anyway, whatever.... Something must have happened to this boy during his upbringing - as is what you're lately seeing 'hanging out' - because... You pretend he was emotionally only about 8 years old when you met him, despite looking and acting convincingly like a grown man on the outside and in all non-emotionally-taxing areas, like eating at restaurants and shopping, etc. He would be bound to change, wouldn't he, once he hit his secretly teen years. Because that's what HAPPENS when pre-pubescents hit puberty. They go from angel to Beelzebub, seemingly instantly (in some cases, pretty much literally).
Do you remember what YOU were like when you were a teenager?
Here - take a look at this English comedian's famous character called, Kevin. Tell me if any of it is somewhat reminiscent of how your bloke's been talking and behaving with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY
(Do bear with its first couple of minutes, and then you'll see what I'm referring to.) Ignore the fact it's a comedy.
There's another episode, wherein Kevin's mother asks Kevin to do something that is exclusively his responsibility to do, and which he's promised faithfully for ages to do, and he throws at his mother, 'HNUF! I'm not your SLAVE?!'.
Ringing any bells?
Congratulations, XJTERRY - your fiance has just hit adolescence.
But now you know and can appreciate precisely why his parents treat him like one, yes?
To answer your other question: what's happening every time he visits his family is, I suspect, him acting like the teenager he is... He sits there whinging on about you from a very selfish, narrow-minded point of view - only his own. His parents are getting given highly biased accounts only... ones that make him out to be the angel and you the trouble-maker. He's not interested in constructive truth, all he's interested in is dodging culpability and guilt (*like* an 8 year old). More fool them for swallowing it and agreeing with him and, in so doing, reinforcing his warped little views to the point where he comes back convinced more than ever that he's right, all full of confidence in his warped conviction and raring to shove his version of how it is down your throat. (His parents must be emotionally thick) (huh - figures!).
And, given that even NOW, TODAY, he's making out to you (prior to his setting off for their house), that everything's perfectly hunkydory when evidently, underneath his veneer, it *isn't*, or he isn't sure, hence he immediately starts whinging and spinning to them - that whole behavioural 'dance' would colour him Passive-Aggressive on top.
So, in summary, it's, Little boy in grown-up suit wants lovely lady so puts on angel act, then can't manage/doesn't dare to ease it off (or that might mean him *losing* lovely lady), so STAYS busting an acting gut, then can't take the strain any more...the work stress hits a critical amount, which is the first half-catalyst... then the fight this causes is the second half, EQUALS ONE WHOLE CATALYST, aaaaand the nice guy veil finally gets knocked off, revealing his inner a*sehole....And (- and here's the difference between him/this and a more normal, mere power struggle and post-fight period) stays off. Because that a-hole has in the interim BEEN FED hence is too fat to fit back under the veil.
Is this feeling like it's fitting with and making sense of everything?
I am so relieved to hear your anger finally coming out in that last post of yours, I can't tell you! And - YES, DO THAT! Make a job (set up and waiting) your 'affair partner'. Only, the fair, healthy, perfectly rightful way (good for you!). Let's YOU get a confidence boost and see if YOU still want the relationship. I'm betting not.
OR - EVEN BETTER - you could just dump him?
*Could* you just dump him? Is your allowance enough to support you full-time without his contributions?
Still... miracles can happen.... he might just save his own bacon at the last minute. He might 'smell' the new-found disgust and determination in you and rapidly shove that a*se back in. ?
Assuming not, here's the good and happy news: Picture this work stress then humdinger fight never having happened,... you going ahead with tying the knot.... and then, just weeks or months into married life and THEN the veil comes off and stays off. Now imagine another 10 years peppered with this (possibly worse now he's got you by the ball and chain).... but now you've got kids round your ankles on top. And another 10. And another.
'GOOD GRIEF!', and, 'PASS ME THE NOOSE!', eh?
This is the whole POINT of dating someone. And then being engaged to someone. To let them get increasingly *comfortable hence less cautious* with you and, see what they're like as a genuine, burping, farting, human being. Their dark side, and whether it's handle-able. I mean, everyone can be a great guy when the sun's out and they're happy-happy-happy, can't they.
...Which is why I always say, the test of a person's true mettle is what they're like, how they treat you, in BAD weather. It's 'For better or worse', isn't it, not 'For better or monster' (or spiteful, selfish, uncooperative, egotistical little teenage boy) (same thing).
Aren't you really glad you aren't like one of those women who go ahead and marry the bloke within the first 6 months?
Here's the other good news (assuming he doesn't drastically turn this situation around toute suite): if this guy was 'so near but not quite' for one such as you, then, at least you got close. So you're almost there, then, aren't you? It'll be the next guy.
Too soon to think about that, but not to soon to use it as a comforting reality-crutch.
Your only other option is to insist on couples counselling on pain of your leaving. But why bother when you don't have kids with this guy?
Anyway... I know what this period is like - emotions rollercoasting - so... How are you feeling now, since you wrote those 3 posts?
You are again right to everything you said , like you know him...All these things are so confusing to me because of the feelinggs. But yesterday I told him don't make me to hate you, because If things will continue like this the end will be to hate you and to don't want to see you again in my life..And I was meaning it..I feel that this man feels so insecure next to me, like he is so below to me..and this is his issue because I never behaved to him like I am something better than him...But all these words that he is saying my problem is that I heard them before from his mother, not exactly in the same way...but for example the day after the engagement in a humour way ( because everything she says is in a humour way) she told me that you are doing what you want to everyone and especially to my father...I replied to her that my parents respect my life and my personality and they are just next to me to support me...Another day she was asking me if the wife of my brother is having a job, if they are staying in her own house etc. I said no she hasn't got a job the last year and they are renting a house, and my father is paying the rent..then she replied but till when your father will pay for him, he must becomε independant and see how the real life is.. I replied that he is independant since he is working from the age of 18, and because of the crisis in Greece it is not bad the parents to support their children... When I came back from my master in U.K her brother asked me: now that you have 2 baachelors and a master will you abandon my nephew?? What a question... At the beggining of our relationship his family didn't want me because as he said I am not the person that his mum can control and that drives her crazy..she would be happy if she had a doughter in law that will be talking in the phone with her everyday and will be telling what we are doing..but with you she cannot do all these things and she is getting crazy..HIS WORDS!! Also he was saying that she drove crazy his father that's why he is not saying a word because she wants to control everything..also she was one of the reasons that her brother took a divorce from his wife!! It was him that said all these the one that couldn't stay with her for days and now he is like forget that and gave space in our relationship for her. She is very manipulative and hypocrite...My fiance when he was 15 years old became addicted to drugs and he went in a clinic for detoxification when he was 22 years old. He was in therapu with psychologist and the conclusion was that he must find his personality because in his house they have strong personalities and they are manipulate him because he is sensitive. He said that the 'must' of his mother that wanted everyone to do what she wanted was putting pressure to him..that she was not respecting his privacy at all..she was checking him all the time..and at the same time all the time she was so sensitive and was needing others to do things for her... He works from the age of 18 at his father job. From that age he is economically independant..They never financially support him or help him..Even if now which things in Greece are really bad anly his grandparents gave him money when he was needing them..His arents nothing..But he has a sister that is 5 years old younger and she is studying in Athens for 10 years for a degree (degrees here is 4 years) but they support her and don't want her to come back. She has a boyfriend there that he is financially very good. The funny thing is that her boyfrind cheated on her twice, she found it out, he left her, her mother went to emotionally support her more than 10 times and after 4 months he asked her to be again together and HER parents made a dinner for him a month later and they were behaving with sooo much love, they were sooo happy and with me NO..I was thinking if I was cheating your son will you be behaving the same? NO no way.....
So the conclusion is that he knows them...and he was the one that told me about them...but what happened now? He was so emotionally vulnerable when I was away and they tried their best?? Because believe me sometimes I feel like he not fighting with me...I feel that he is fighting with his family and say to me the things that he would like to tell them.. They had a fight about the job months ago..he told me what happened and I told him my opinion and you know what he said? the next time that we will discuss the issue you have to be there because you can talk better than me..like I can confort them but for him is impossible...I told him no it is not my businnes to be in this conversation, just be calm think yourself and stay in your positions... And you know what I think that happened yesterday? He went there they didn't know that I am back with him, thay learned it yesterday and I am sure that in her humour way his mother said: oh! she did what she wanted again...Crazy thing for me...
I am not this kind of person to be in a situation like this... I am independant, i will do what I want for my life without others to tell me..ok I will hear my parents opinion when I will ask them to tell me their opinion but again at the end of the day I will do what I think is best for me.. They financially support me but they NEVER told me what is best for me...They just told me that I am old enought mature and I will make the decisions for my life...And now that I was there for so many weeks that only thing that told me was it is your life, think what you want and what will make you happy...you are the one that you are staying with him, you know what is happenning, you know if your behavior in ok so only you will decide.. So many things all the time in my mind...
I know that mu fiance is hypersensitive, I know that he can confort his family and he is their slave!!!! but what makes me feel bad is that he bacame now!! and me became his enemy... I can see the change in his behavior every time that he is coming back from them, but the previous year he was telling me what they were telling him...but now he doesn't say a word he keeps them for himself and you can see that he is angry..
He wake up in the morning to leave for job he kissed me, he said that he loves me and to don't cook anything because he will bring food...He wake up the old one again...
So his mother's frequently passive-aggressive, then, and uses humour (ha-ha, so funny, NOT!) as a surface cover under which to have a pop at people she doesn't like or have crossed or thwarted her or simply made her feel inadequate, even unintentionally? Explains a lot considering she was his primary emotional tutor. However, what in turn explains her must be that her husband is pretty much constantly overbearing, meaning 'under the table' thus under her husband's radar is her only route to self-asserting without getting 'whacked' for it? Great - his two biggest role-models were over-aggressive and passive-aggressive. No WONDER he can do both and switch between them at will.
LOL..."Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry". Well done! He's probably now got visions of you - pushed beyond your limit, going Green and expanding to twice your normal size, shirt ripping and falling to the ground, and roaring before picking him up and throwing him across the room. The XJIncredible XJHulk.
(Well, I have, anyway.)
Yeah, I know him. Not personally, just as a classic textbook case (- "Sir, you are an exercise in stunted emotionality :-p"
Understand, they can *all* be tw*ts from time to time if you (even inadvertently) damage or challenge their egos, like I said earlier. But tolerability always comes down to degrees or beyond a critical weight. Or to put it more simply - knowing when to stop. This one doesn't know when he's ahead and should quit. Mine did (thank god) or else I'd have kicked him to the kerb and continued my search for my optimum soulmate. Your boy makes mine look like an *actual* angel with just one tiny streak of Ugh, sorry to say.
You're looking for the best of the sometime-tw*ts (and by *your* standards), not the worst. He should have embraced that second chance you gave him for the emotional lifeline it represented, not stamped and shat on it.
You didn't even HAVE to behave like you thought you were better than him. This isn't about you having some superiority complex. It's about his having an inferiority one. He is not man enough for you and he is certainly not your type, not when it comes to moral settings and core attitudes to life and people, underneath the mere surface qualities and behaviour.
You're clearly healthy-minded (which ceases being a good thing when having to live alongside people like this), big-hearted, intelligent *as well as* academic-minded (which no doubt means sensibly cautious with it), sure of yourself, sure of what you want and what's fair/what's not, proactive, assertive *and* tenacious, and very independent-minded/not easily swayed... To a man like him, compared to his passive-aggressive mother, not only are you a powerful sports car (unlike the pootling runarounds he's used to and mother wants for him/for herself) but also TOO PUSHY and won't ever let things lie or slide by undealt-with. Only whenever his mother's free to be visibly pushy with him do you suddenly strike him (all over again) as less so.
You're with a man who has TWO lovers: you...and his mother (without the physical bit, obviously).
Were you smaller and lower than your normal self when you met him, say, because you'd only just got out of the boxing ring with your previous ex, too exhausted at that point to argue or object over anything and similarly too loved-up to care? That's normally how someone like him manages to bag someone like you, anyway.
But I wonder - are you TACTFUL with it? I think, because you're still young, you've yet to finish honing that particular rough edge. Reason I say so is because of this: "and because of the crisis in Greece it is not bad the parents to support their children". WHOOPS! Message meaning to someone who's dying to see the bad in you and take the things you say the wrong way: 'All good Greek parents financially support their children since the economy nose-dived, and for no ulterior motives whatsoever, ergo, that you don't means you're not one of them'.
However, that's not your problem, per se, because imagine if you'd made that statement and either she and her husband had been doing likewise or were perfectly reconciled with the fact they couldn't afford to?
But I see why her mother didn't take to you. She's an inverted snob. And her OWN marriage isn't enough to keep her out of her son's (hence she'd have preferred to have been allowed by a sweet little she-mouse, to be included). After all, what does it matter to HER if her son's girlfriend/fiancee's father can afford to be supportive in that no-strings way and chooses to take this, his fatherly privilege? Surely that cushy set-up could only HELP her child if he's married to you or on the way to? It matters because she's got a chip on her shoulder. And so does Little Sonny Jim.
But, "Also he was saying that she drove crazy his father that's why he is not saying a word because she wants to control everything" - NO, XJTerry, you've got it back-to-front: His father drove *her* crazy. And then she drove him crazy back. He created a monster, in other words, by being a chauvinistic controller, denying and depriving her of any access to any power and status worth writing home about, let alone equal to his. So here she is, trying to make up for those serious rights-limitations and constraints - by helping herself to and trampling over OTHERS' rights. Any that are within her reach or reach-by-proxy of her kids. And then she *feels* like she's powerful despite in reality she's far from it.
"but they support [daughter] and don't want her to come back. She has a boyfriend there that he is ***financially very good.***"
Then that'll be WHY their so-called principles can flex whenever it suits.
Hypocrites. Social-climbing ones at that.
And so does LSJ Senior have that chip, by the sounds of it (unsurprisingly): "When I came back from my master in U.K her brother asked me: now that you have 2 baachelors and a master will you abandon my nephew?? What a question."
A perfectly REASONABLE question. *If* you're them, their type. But what a huge clue about how mercenary and chameleon-like they are in their thinking when it comes to whomever they choose to associate with and why. They sound like your typical 'Keep up with the Jones's', all shiny, happy people out in public but often bitter, envious and coveting, small-minded idiots behind closed doors.
And you wanted to MARRY into this?
He's not sensitive, he's weak. Or weakENED and incapable of extricating himself from his over-bearing mother's apron strings. However, he IS only 14, remember, so what would anyone expect? ;-p
Potential is not reality, though. Potential is a car. But unless one ever sits in it, turns on the engine and drives the damn thing, instead of just letting it sit there motionless, it's just a lump of metal on wheels.
Sensitivity does not automatically exclude strength of mind and character, either. I should know.
Plus, sensitivity means BOTH WAYS. He is merely what you call thin-skinned, meaning, sensitive to his own feelings whilst anywhere between completely oblivious and riding roughshod over others'.
Maybe in Situation Happy he can manage to be sensitive towards others. But not when the going gets tougher. That's when sensitivity as a label is warranted, and ONLY then.
Plus, they're giant hyporcrites - CLEARLY! - because, what's the difference between one father giving his child a bridging allowance or another father providing his with a permanent job of work at his own company? I don't see it - do you? If anything, one is longer-term than the other! Or is it because you're a woman, whom, as such, should aspire only to being a mum and housewife (or, ref his sister, going through the educational motions prior to and merely and simply as a positional access strategy for marrying into money)?
If so, then NOW I see why the seeming contradiction of 'Get a job' and 'Move to where getting a job you could hack would be nigh-on impossible'. It's actually this: If you won't move out to the stix with me then your punishment will be that you have to get a job (which *I* suspect you don't want).
But yes... In the battle called, Extricating Myself From Mother's Over-Close Interest, if he's been proposing you both move to WITHIN her easier access and control range, then - he's lost. He tried to get away by climbing into a bottle (didn't work). That led to psychotherapy (didn't work - probably too short-lived or not enough in reality). He then tried to get away by hooking up with a parentally-independent woman in the hope what she had would rub off on him (didn't work for long enough because that type of woman includes downsides like any other). So now he's exhausted and choosing to roll over and back into her (and his father's) little pen.
Don't you DARE roll with him. You are not his co-victim or pandering-to-mother accessory and shield. Bad enough you've been *his* victim lately. (And someone should point out to him that he, the bullied, has dealt with that by doing nothing but turning himself 180 degrees and 'passing it on' to someone else. Or trying).
He'd HAVE to pander to her, anyway, wouldn't he. Think about it... "You should do as we say because - were it not for me and your father, you wouldn't even have a JOB, let alone a girlfriend/fiancee!".
Clever parents, huh? They've well and truly got him by the short and curlies... with him not strong enough to tell them *and* their job to eff off and let him live his life how HE sees fit. He daren't lose his pubes, not even though they'll grow back again.
Anyway... the upshot is he's not even NEARLY ready for a serious, long-term relationship. He hasn't even left home yet. Keeps going back. And that is not what we call, 'flying the nest'.
What is a clever girl like you with all that ready potential doing, thinking of hooking up with an emotionally stunted, 'dry addict' weakling? And one that wants to hide behind you from his parents (so that only YOU are constantly "bad cop"?) What are you - bonkers? Desperate?
Well, I think not, not deep down. I mean, don't think it's escaped my notice that now, suddenly, you're letting it all spill out. You've obviously decided you've no purpose for those rose-tinted glasses or for protecting him from my fuller means of judgement... that finally it's SAFE to tell it like it really, properly is. So whether you realise it or not, you are just about ready to dump.
Whether you're ready enough for it to count as the point of no return, rather than dumping and then taking him back however much later, is another matter entirely.
But if you now take the time and effort to move on to your *true and destined* soulmate - your You-with-a-willy (and you that man's Him-with-boobs), then you doing what you see fit as well as natural for who you are and how you tick, will be you doing what automatically pleases your partner. Doing what he wants all the time will be a SIDE-effect, not a self-contrivance that constantly leaves you underneath it all brimming with frustration and resentment *to the point where you, Little Miss "I Love Sex", increasingly go off wanting it and being in the mood for it.
Your behaviour is just fine, luv. Trust me. I tell things like they are and, truth being painful, get bad attitudes in return ALL THE TIME, particularly on here. Not from you, I haven't. NOT ONCE. These recent issues aren't even your own. So I'm very glad you refuse to own them.
"He wake up in the morning to leave for job he kissed me, he said that he loves me and to don't cook anything because he will bring food...He wake up the old one again..."
Yeah, but for how long? That's the problem, isn't it.
XJTerry, this boy's half-baked, and you're fully baked. Ne'er the twain shall meet, you're hugely incompatible (certainly at THIS level and stage of up-close-ness). You need a real grown-up of a man.
But I did tell you he might smell your new-found disgust and spurt in reverse attachment, remember? So here it is, his responding to it.
Food. Big deal. And is that his doing the cooking it or just a takeaway? "BRING" food. Clearly a takeaway. Whichever...Neither would be enough. Does he think you're that cheap, that easily bought? Pff. All *you* want to hear is, 'Screw my parents, screw their method of keeping me under their thumb (the job), you and I will live how ever and wherever we damn please, *you're* my family now'. And you need to hear him add that he's so sorry he took his own, independant, exclusive struggles out on you. And then see him *DO IT*.
Again, despite some men find the reserves enough to surprise you (at the 11th hour, usually), I wouldn't recommend holding yer breath. But by all means stick around to see. Because this has to be YOUR journey, YOUR learning curve, meaning you need to see proof one way or the other rather than take the word of someone who's been there, done that, seen other people go through the same, and suspects that this boy doesn't have it in him to be worthy of a gal like you....
Or are YOU going to surprise me?
Well, if not or not yet - I'm not going anywhere.
Thoughts many thoughts...The job that he is doing is the one that started to put all the stress in him. His father had the company with another person that decided to leave with his wife and kin and go to Sweden because the job here was not going so well. So he left and in his position (he has the 50% of the company) left his brother.Because the job isn't going well his father told him to give him the 50 % of the company and him (the father) till to retire (he will in 10 years) to go there very day and sit and him to pay his petrol of the car. So his father wants to do exactly what he is doing now with the difference that he will not have to pay the rent fom the shop, and all the other bills and my bf will be paying his petrol. When he said it to my bf my bf told me that they had a big fight. He told his father that if he will take it now it is sure that he will become financilay broken. H esaid to him: sign to me now a paer that it will be possible for me to start a family and to support it' His father was saying it is just a risk you are taking it or I am leaving my 50% to the other person.. My bf told me that you want me for the rest of the life to have a job with someone that I didn't choose someone that don't know the job and is lazy...His father was saying again take it or leave it... When he told me this conversation they had he told me that he doesn't want to see them again... I was the one that I told him that this is not a solution..You can propose to him to stay there as he is, because he will be retired in 10 years, and you will see if you want to take it later or leave it and do something by yourself.. He was saying that I was right and to go with him when he will discuss it again..I told him that I cannot do it because it is something between them..That was the last time that he told me what happened with them,,,after that he suddendly started to be so close to them..I have no idea what happened in between...But all the problem it started with his job and actually with his father and the decisions he took till now...and he is like now I am not taking any responsibilities and I am giving them to my son...take it or leave it, but if ou leave it what will you do by youself??? You haven't got money to start something of your own...All these confused him and drove him crazy...and till now the issue is unresovled...or they solved it without me to know it.... So I know that it is not my problem, I know that it is not because I have not a job but I know that I am the problem with them because I don't agry with their plans...If i was saying yes to him they will be soo happy because their plans will be going as the wanted.But now me, that I don't have a job say my opinion which is different with their opinion. I am not the kind of person that will sacrifise my self...Yes I am searching for a job but for a job that I want, maybe it will not be exactly what I studied byt it will be something that I want. And yes I will not do any job because I am here in this city because of him otherwise I will be anywhere else ot not in Greece which means that for sure I will be doing what I wanted to do. But I sacrifised my career, to be with him I will not sacrifise anything else. Or maybe I would be sacrifising and other thinga IF i knew that this man stands next to me, knows who I am and which one is his family right now.If I knew that he was like this yes I will be doing more things...But now no I don't want I have no motivation... And I already started to send my cv's in another cities far from here, because I f you want others to decide for your life I will decide for my life. I don't know if it is good or not but I grow up by taking decisions for my life and for no reason I will accept others to decide for my life.. And I know which words are his words and which ideas is his ideas...And all these things the last period is not his ideas...he is just blocked, he knows that I am not the problem but he is too weak to say what he have to say to the right persons...the demons that he is fighting it is his demons and not mine and I will not take them...
I loved him because he was not like this but even if a still have feelings for him that doesn't mean that I will fight for things that are not my fault or that I will choose a life that is not mine as well...For our house we are the ones that we have to decide..I screamed to him yesterday that he is a-hole because he doesn't know to whom he is talking in the way that he is talking and that his behavior is awful..I said if you want me to talk to you without feeling I will say to you f$@$# off and I will leave.My logic sayd it to me but I still here because of my feelings but if you will continue like this the only thing that will happen is to hate you and don't want to see you again. In these words he didn't say anything... I asked him If you are willing to throw away what we tried to built all these years because you don't know why then it is better for you to stay alone.. Because the nagging thing that you are saying it is not a reason and it is not a reason because you are saying that I am nagging everytime that I am doing a serious conversation with you...but the last period you decided to have the steel face with no feeling and try with only the logic to solve what? in a relationship one of the main ingredients is the feelings..you blocked youself...and you blocked yourself and try to prove that I am the problem but the problem it is not me...And yes again he didn't say anything, nothing at all...
And yes today he came back bought food from a restaurant and he was normal and sweet with me...
Hold those many thoughts because I've just run out of 'window'. Bear with... should be back a bit later or tomorrow morning.
But for now: I've clocked that What For speech you gave him yesterday and:
"And yes again he didn't say anything, nothing at all..."
Nothing TO say. Because he knows you're speaking the truth, the whole truth, and nothing BUT the truth.
Bravo you! Round of applause! [crowd goes wild]
More comments on it later, as I say.
Last night I laughed a lot! A friend of us came to drink beers..He is in our age married with a 6 months girl. So he came and we ordered pizza. When the pizza came my bf open the door, payed then brought the pizza out to the balcony ( I was looking the photos of our friend baby) then we brought dishes, glasses and he says to me: sit and don't do anything...( in a way that I had to do these things) and our frind said to him? why are you saying it? because u brought 3 dishes? big issue!!! ou think that you are not a man? so me that at our house doing these things I am not a man? hahhahahahaahhaah it was sooooo funny! my bf again didn't reply to him...he said this stupid thing to show something and at the end it went back to him... (and this friend that came it is his friend that they are playing together basketball)
Starting in reverse post order: So his friend said, why are you making a big song and dance out of the fact you managed to carry, OOOH, 3 whole plates from the kitchen!...what - just because it's not 'man's work', so *you* seem to think? (Told ya - your bf's been indoctrinated with chauvenistic attitudes, and even to the extent where other males notice its symptoms as well as the size of them.)
Kiss this friend for me, will you?
Because that said it all! It especially covered what I said: "bring food" - big deal. In actual fact, he only brought plates (and handed over a banknote). (He must have been exhausted, poor luv. :-p)
However, that you apparently laughed along (and felt you deserved an opportunity to laugh at him) won't have gone down well with bf, particularly given how his ego is still awake and patrolling the perimeter of its zoo cage.
Expect petty revenge. Be ready to spot and side-step it.
But back to big deal: That is not what I call a show of effort when it comes to Sorry. Does he think all he did was break your favourite coffee cup? Or does this show me that normally this guy does too little to show you he appreciates you, meaning, relative to that, him ordering you a (be still my beating heart!) pizza to save you from having to cook (why are YOU the cook when you're not even his wife yet?!) or being the one to lay the table actually *is* a big deal?
What's been going on here, XJThierry? Have you been underselling yourself whilst overpaying, even pre-paying, when it comes to him?
Re your prior post:
I see. So FIL wants his son, your boyfriend (not calling him Fiance until he re-deserves it), to live above his shop and bf wants you obviously to move there with him. So in other words, his father is trying to reel him back into the family net and bf, who once showed promise in terms of flying the nest as a permanent development, is now thinking of rolling over on that score... which means keeping them sweet on all fronts from now on. GOT IT!
His late-onset rebellion campaign has failed, and prematurely thanks to this carrot-come-stick being wafted under his nose. They might be HIS parents but it would still represent you yourself moving back home to live with yours, despite in a fairly far-off 'annexe' within the walls of the family estate (i.e., like living at the bottom of their 5 acre garden as gives them the sense of liberty to drop in any time and stick their two-penneth-worth in any time).
They'd be the parent figures (with all the power), you'd be the kids-dependents. Whereas, living together as an engaged couple is supposed to be a run-up to taking over that baton. Plus, offering your son a career is not supposed to come with un-rightful, un-related, non-associable strings attached. So he's not offering him a career, then, is he. He's offering him second childhood under what is tacitly understood to be but a *veil* of job security, a career, and Twelvth Of Never power and status (because he might retire in 10 years but equally might NOT).
So your boyfriend is following that carrot with his nose, whilst ignoring its rotten facet, and trying to drag you along its wake with him.
No WONDER he's basically having to batter you into giving your agreement! He understands FULL WELL why you're resisting.
Imagine yourselves as public swimming baths swimmers. He climbed out of the baby pool and into the juniors pool. You did the same, independently of him. And there you met.
You naturally assumed he'd want to self-promote to the adults pool with its high-rise diving board, meaning, you could move there together.
He's now trying to use excuses to avoid getting into the adult pool and, not only that but go one worse by skipping the junior pool and going straight back into the baby pool.
He thinks not, has managed to kid himself not, just because management has installed heating, a Lazy River and a Wave Machine.
What use is that if the water is still only 1 foot deep and the pool itself measures only 15ft by 10ft?
And that's his father's carrot. (See how much more furtive, calculating and subtle his father is than his all-mouth-and-no-trousers mother?)
This shouldn't even HAVE to be a Tug O' War between you and his parents. He should have tugged himself. And - ideally - long before he met you.
Right Person, Wrong Place, Wrong Time.
He's going to have to grow up ucking fast to catch up with a more proper adult like you.
HOWEVER, you DO have your own issue... which is that you're supposed to be this man's pending teammate. If he has an enemy who uses a weapon (mind and mouth) over which you are more skilled and familiar with using than him, why on earth *couldn't* you have gone with him. His future and what it looked like was basically about to become *your* future, too, wasn't it?
I agree he shouldn't rope you in if, say, their argument had been about something which had nothing to do with you. But as I've just shown, this did.
Is this a reflection of your parents being TOO permissive in terms of letting you behave like an independent adult from too early an age, whereby you've become an island?...and because you don't need anyone's help, nor should he? Or is it a commentary in motion that goes: "I can deeper down already sense that your future *won't* be my future (this marriage ain't really going to end up happening), ergo, leave me out of it"? After all, he did, on top of the fact it was duty, ask nicely.
Or because you've already sacrificed enough and changed enough to suit him and his needs and seen no reward or recompense?
The fact remains: He asked nicely for help and you turned him down.
Okay, grey area. A man should be able to stand up to his parents. Yes, ideally. But these aren't just 'parents', are they. They're strong-willed, relentlessly pushy characters with the gift of the gab AND it was two against one. You know that because even YOU are having trouble with them and you're not even their daughter (despite they're trying to morph you into her).
So you can't really complain that it resulted in him getting mown down and having to roll over. On THAT score - no wonder he's p*ssed off with you. Your refusal to help made his one or first proper chance at moving into the senior pool too difficult.
If - IF - you decide there's enough good stuff underneath this current mess to warrant the relationship being saved, then I'm going to suggest you and he attend a short course of couples counselling. Because you do not talk the same language. Not really. Not enough. So you need an interpretor.
None of this excuses how he's chosen to deal with the situation of late (by tantrum-ing, yelling, breaking things, then sulking and being a bully), though. Let me just point that out now, for the record. So he's got TWO issues to address, then, hasn't he, versus your just the one - i.e. how to go from being an ace solo flier (and already a veteran on that score) to co-piloting, without feeling 'icky' (out of your comfort zone) whenever anyone tries to offer you input or assistance.
Until you can do that, you're not ready to be part of a two-person-ed team.
So you're not quite ready for marriage, either, are you. Albeit, significantly readier than he is.
How long is the engagement supposed to be?
What I *will* say about the pizza (and plates, LOL) is that at least it shows he's ready to start doing and giving again. That he gives such tiny little quantums is down to you and your refusal to take anything FROM ANYONE.
You've taken from me, though, haven't you, without feeling icky? See how much easier it is when you're desperate and CAN'T fly solo? But why didn't you rely on your parents instead of coming on here? You sought out strangers.
See? Your parents give you TOO much leash length. In fact, they basically say to you, 'Just get on with it, stop asking us'.
Your having needed to come on here is a much needed preview and giant hint for you. As you get older and more tired, with life meanwhile caring not a jot for how you feel and merrily getting more and more complicated and harder to handle and manage, being a team player is what life is going to force you to relenting-ly become. Because that's what life does: it presents a series of holes to climb through, with it choosing the order in which they're presented... holes that are a precise shape, size and orientation, meaning, if you have odd pieces sticking out of your profile or are out-of-balance and permanently lop-sided (think square stuck at a 35 degree tilt trying to get through straight-set square hole), these will make your passage through the hole impossible, meaning you stay stuck in that same level (think computer game) until you get the sander out and deal with those left- or right-sided protrusions.
You're 'nagging' because he's already been nagged to death. You could just say Hello at those points and THAT would be nagging. What he actually means is, he has nagging going on incessantly in his head and you keep knocking on then opening its cage door when he closed it in the first place to gain a few minutes' peace and quiet. He takes longer than you to tackle things.
He's taking his moods/struggles out of you because HE thinks that were it not for you and that refusal to team up against his parents that time, he wouldn't be feeling stressed, confused, torn, harangued and moody in the first place. He needed a barrister at that meeting. Because of what they're like, a barrister is precisely what he needed.
His inability to sit and discuss rationally and calmly aside - if you want this man (having insisted he learn better ways to communicate, including protesting) then you're going to have to show solidarity. If you're PRESENT during these talks then he can't hide behind you and what you want/don't want as his excuse and cover for his own protestations and they won't be able to react to that, running you down to him, like you being the only fly in the ointment FITS.
Phew! Make sense?
Yes everything makes sense... Let me tell you about me..I came here to address my issue because all my friends were talking on the surface.. They were just telling that what he did was unacceprable, I deserve more than him and to dump him and leave away..My parents on the other hand thay told me to decide what I will do because it is my life I know what is happening better than them so they will not affect my decision..They just told me that is unacceptable whenever I want to leave the house and go at their house. BUT my dad was discussing the issue with my mum and said that he knows that I am spoilt and I cannot understand the stress of my bf.. H esaid that his job issues are real but I cannot understand them because I was never in a situation like this and because life to me was very easy till now...On the other hand he said that his behavior is unacceptable, but it takes two to tango... Also my parents know how much I love my studies and how mush I want to find a job that will have to do about my studies..and they know that if I will return back to live I will not be happy.. They said that the best thing for this relationship it will be if both of us leave and go to stay in another city or even country and be away from here..They believe that his family want him there and control his life and also be their helper in his life...So they just said it is your life so you two must decide which choice will be better for both of you...and since the try here had so many troubles so it is better if you go away...
Also about the engagement the only reason that we didn't got married were the money. First his family wasn't happy with our engagement and second they never, never asked us when we will get married..His family told him that they don't have any money to give for his wedding..but they want a marriage them and their relatives to be inveited...I am saying it because my parents can pay for our marriage (the part for our relatives that will be invited) and in a discussion his father in a funny way said: Oh in the marriage HER FATHER WILL PAY because we don't have..and him and his wife were laughting...and when I said to them you think that my dad is foolish?? they replied we are joking don't take everything so serious and misunderstand everything...because for them every time that they say their 'jokes' I am the one that misunderstoods... Anyway, I told him about the marriage thing since we cannot do a proper wedding I mean to invite lot of people relatives etc. we can go both of us to get married and invite 5-10 people...he said that this will be the best thing...
The situation is very strange...I know that this man was loving me very much but now he closed his feelings and is very angry at me..I know that I am not moving away for my limits because I think that I already sacrifised a lot of things so now I will not do any other sacrifise... I know that I am very strong minded in the things that I want.Of course I played my role in all this.. In some things that he was saying about us he is right but he was not saying them in the right way..If I was not feeling that I helped all these to happen I will be not here...But yes I helped a lot..and also since I am trying to solve everything by myself and decide for my self what I wanted was him to do the same..Maybe I wanted him to be stronger but he is not..And probably he has understand it..That's why the last period was saying I am not your father..He knows that my father is very strong, he did everything by himself and also he faced all the problems he had with real strength...Maybe he feels inadequate next to him and is angry with me because he knows that my father support me, that my strength is him...Once he was at our parents house and I said something with my dad and my dad responded in a way oh it is not your fault that you are doing it , it is my fault the way you are...and my bf laughed sooo much!!! He wants to be my man but he feels that my man is my dad...And the only way for him to feel that he is my man is me to find a job.Because he cannot support us without me having a job and also he doesn't like that my dad supports me...And he grow up in a family that he hadn't got support... Because our difference is that I know anytime that my parents will be there If I need them, they will support me and they will not ask anything back... He used to say that it is so strange for him that my father has sooo much patience and that he overestimates him and my mum. He never talked like this for his parents, he never said something positive for them...only for his grandparents and he only feels that if he needs help he can ask it from his grandparents and not his parents...
On Saturday we are invited in a wedding and his sister will be best woman...because the wedding is far from here 1:30 his parents booked a room for them, booked a room for his sister and her boyfrind and said to him that if we want to go and get dressed in their room...They didn't book for us....and today the bride will have a party at her parents house before the wedding (they stay next to his parents house) and his father called him yesterday for him to go at the party today, he said no, then his mother called him and was saying you must to come, because your sister is the best woman and they are our friend etc. and he said I will come at the wedding I cannot come today as well then she was saying again that he must go so at the end he became angry screamed at her are you asking me if I have money to go around with the car for the wedding? and hang up the phone to her.. I asked him what is happenning he told me and then he said the last perios they are forgetting their limits and we will have a big fight at the end if they continue like this.....
I really hate it when people use "it's a joke" to say all manner of ridiculous and despicable things
I don't like the sound of his family at all - yuk
Yes, agree, that's one of my pet hates as well.
Okay, good, so your parents did discuss it at fair length with you despite remained non-committal. And I guess they've got a point in saying it's not befitting for a woman who's supposedly left home and set up on her own with her partner to 'run home' after any fights. But then they probably haven't seen how over-reactive and generally untoward he can get, have they. And I'm betting you haven't told them that little detail, either, have you?
Talking of which - and here's the main "stop press" for today: Did you notice the fact that he's switched his direction of aggression completely and utterly from you to his parents?
Don't get me wrong. He shouldn't be being that aggressive with *anyone*. But at least that switching goes some way to showing that that "anyone" apparently no longer includes YOU... which must mean that your warning about his risking kicking the love out of you to the point where it turns to hate, really did hit home. Agree?
Furthermore, they were there, issuing him orders, and yet, despite this hold they currently have over him, he basically told them to "do one". So he's rebelling as well as yelling, isn't he. Is that the occasional par for the course or yet another new development on the back of your having given him that dressing down?
Tell me, have you ever heard his parents or siblings yelling and screaming in anger at him, or even got the gist from any conversations or clues that they do (and whether it's a regular thing in their family)?
Hey, no I never heard his parents or siblings yelling or screaming at him. I hace only heard that he had really bad fights with his dad, so I suppose both of them will be screaming. His mother/grandmother talk to him in a really manipulative way..Also I have seen his mother give him critical gazes...she does it a lot with him and with her husband if they say or do something that for her is not 'good' she gives them a very critical gaze...Also I know that in the past they had fights and he stopped talking to them for 6 months because he was saying that the only way for them to understand is to stop talking at them, because when he talks they are insisting in their own opinion and wants..But the truth is he cannot stay with thme in the house more than 2 days, he is saying all the time thay are driving me crazy. The times that he is there with them is when they are drinking alcohol and make stupid conversations... His dad is using the irony a lot when he is talking and his mother is very critical and in every conversation she knows everything...
And about my parents yes I never told them the details that I told you...Only two close friends of mine knows all the details...
I need your opinion...Yesterday we went at the wedding..It was the first time that I met his parents after the day I left etc...So first we saw his father I said hello and we kissed and he said oh we will kiss..Then his mother came to my bf she hug him and said: oh my handsome boy and kissed him and then turned to me and said hello and gave me a kiss and turned to my bf and she was stroking his back...
at the wedding party we were having drinks with my bf and two other friends and his mum came there she was telling to my bf come to dance with me he said no and then she was standing there and again stroking him and she was saying oh what a son I have........
At the wedding it was his sister bf... from the beginning his parents was there to him talking to him making fun etc.so after many hours that his father came to us I told him: there is no balance in your behavior you are all the time with the bf of your daughter and not at all with your daughter in law(me) and he said you are jealous? he turned to my bf and he said she is jealous..I said to him I am not jealous I am just saying what is happening, there is no balance..then his mum came and his dad told her what I said and she was saying that the bf of her daughter came from far and they didn't see him for long time and things like this and she left..(all the time that I was talking with them in their 'funny' way my bf was laughting like he was enjoying it.... Anyway I told them this in front of my bf because their behavior was so different..I mean the bf of their daughter cheated her and left her for 4 months and when they were back together their behavior is like he is the king....and for me that I didn't do anything their behavior is like I am a very bad person...I told at my bf in the car about these thoughts and he started screaming and telling me that if I have problem with them to tell them, if i don't want to talk to them to don't talk at all and that I am starting to cause issues AGAIN!!! I said to him that I am not creating issues again but don't expect me to don't say anything when I feel that they behave to me in a way with no reasons. I said that since we are a couple, I will tell him how I feel and since I know that I am behaving good and since my problems are OUR problems I am not accepting behaviors without me to have do something to them... I told him I respect them and I have very good behavior to them so I want them to behave the same...and I said to him you are telling me that when my mother said hello to your mum (one of these days that I was not talking to him) it was ok that your mum turned her back and didn't say anything..and he became angry and said maybe she didn't see her, I said no she saw her..then he said ok you left what you want? I said exactly I left from you why your mum was not talking to my mother? I did something to your mum? My mother did something to your mum? And he was screaming ok why you are saying it to me?? say it to her..And I said because it bothered me because we are a couple, I will say it to you not because I want you to do something but because they behave like I did something to them, like they have problem with me, and since I am taking it from them and it is your parents I will say it to you, and they only thing that I care is bothe of as as a couple to be ok without others to have bahaviors that will have impact on our relationship..And I screamed to him and said you are the one that for years were telling me that your mother needs limits, she is jealous she creates problems etc and now suddenly I am the one that from nowhere finds things to bother me?? I create from my mind things to bother me?think it...He didn't say anything..
So to conclude he became angry when I told him about these things, but I don't care I mean that I am the person that whatever I have I will say it..and also about his parents I wanted to say it...Because they had this behavior with the bf and me I was not visible to them? I was the bad person? and at the end of the day I am their daughter in law him is still the bf BUT they really want to become their son in law...But come on he cheated and dumpted you daughter and they bahave like he is the one the bast person in the world and they are bahaving to me like this without to do anything to them??? no I don't like it...And yes there is no balance and also there is no balance without any reaons...
And his mum? comes to her son that is with his fiance adn start to stroking him and say oh what a son I have, my boy etc? why? what you want to saw? I was not jealous I didn't like it because he is 35 not 5 years old and you are doing these things...Oh and also at the wedding everyone was making me compliments and was saying that I was very beautiful and she was the only one that didn't say anything and was saying about her handsome son....her boy.... I don't need her compliments and her attention I want them to understand that they cannot bahave like they like...not because of me because of my bf... But everytime that she is talking to him for sure she will stroking, touching him and look him in the eyes in a way to see from his eyes what is happenning with him, very manipulative behavior...I don't know if I am wrong but I don't like it...
Oh, my handsome boy? To a 35-year-old man? Are you kidding me? Out-loud in front of you and other people? And does she give him the lion's share at mealtimes or last helping of pudding because 'he's a growing boy' as well? And - strokes his back? Why - did he have wind and need burping??
Please tell me he cringed?
Well, anyway, that was a posturing act of possessiveness if ever I heard one! (Jeez, how come there are all these kids everywhere that have been allowed to have kids? Don't get me started, argh!)
Still, could have been worse: she could have said it to you instead, LOL.
But, yes, that woman is highly manipulative, I agree.
So - on to this comment of yours. I gather you mean you were taking the mickey out of them by using their own style of complaint and criticism, as well pretending the complaint itself was all tongue-in-cheek?
Well, I get WHY you did that (because it was a perfect illustration of their attitude which you didn't want anyone to miss) - plus nothing makes screaming at you acceptable... but I'm afraid your boyfriend does have a point. Only a half-one - because you weren't so much starting/creating something as observing a 'crime' happening in real time. But that half-one is that 'now' was not the time.
Clearly for you, though, thanks to that recent, totally unexpected, cruel and upsetting debacle that he subjected you both to, now is very MUCH the time to exert more pushes and prods and general all-round testing. And I think I know why because... Have you noticed how you've stopped calling him 'fiance' and are now referring to him only as 'boyfriend'? I know *I* said I wasn't calling him fiance until he deserved it but it doesn't automatically follow that you would. So was ceasing calling him that deliberate on your part or had you failed to realise until right now, now that I've just pointed it out? So you really AREN'T sure any more that this is the man you want to spend your life with, are you, meaning, in your mind he is now firmly ON PROBATION.
No, you SHOULDN'T have to tell them directly without his joint assistance if you have a problem with them showing they have a problem with you. Does he not realise how hypocritical it is for him to one minute be asking for you to side visibly and actively with him whenever they're on his case yet 'in the next breath', when you're the one in the crosshairs, to tell you that you have to take them to task and leave him out of it?
I'm sure he's aware on some level that this represents gross hypocrisy. But then - ref your having laughed at his friend's p*ss-take - I did SAY to watch out for petty revenge, didn't I. So, then, here it was.
No, it's not 'creating issues' to point to an elephant that's already in the room, plonked there by someone else's issue-ridden hand. You're not creating, you're protesting. Saying nothing is rolling over, showing acceptance. The best choices in that situation are either rubbing the puppies' noses in their mess OR rising above it (and frustrating the hell out of the antagonist(s)) by acting convincingly like you haven't even *noticed* any snubbing going on, not one iota, until the 'bully' gets bored. It doesn't sound like this woman GETS bored of it, though, so I can appreciate why taking the matter to task rather than putting it on ice for another time is actually the only do-able option. But you perhaps could have chosen your moment to comment, instead of in the car, when he'd have already been tired (weddings are very tiring), and when you and he are supposed to be recovering.
So it's quite simple: you realise there's rot under the layers of the onion on a certain segment of it and now have to urge to investigate - by peeling back yet more layers from it NOW rather than once you're already tied legally to him.
However, he probably thinks you saying 'my problems are our problems' is itself hypocritical in light of the fact you made him deal with his against his parents alone.
So who out of the two of you is going to break the hypocritical vicious circle? Clearly not him. Or, not whilst he has a petty revenge awaiting release, anyway.
You *are right* - in principle if not in finesse of timing - in everything you said in the car. And I note you stood up for yourself (tick!). But it's no good you being right and choosing one way to deal with it if despite he agrees even secretly that you're right, he constantly chooses another way; you have to both be on the same page... be a TEAM. So he's saying either ignore it or deal with her direct and don't involve me, and you're saying he has to be involved because you're a team so it most certainly *does* involve him.
Is that his perpetual attitude, one you're going to have to live with if you marry him, or just because he wasn't in the right frame of mind on that occasion? Well, even if he's not in the zone sometimes, he still has to be CONSISTENT. If that means joining you in 'battle' has to be done by-rote, then so be it.
So you and he need to have a calm sit-down talk about what the team strategy is to be from now on and forever always without variation, don't you. Especially since this strategy, this general team outlook, represents a stepping up and out on his part when it comes to his disassociating himself with that family's skewed mini-societal rules of functionality and conduct and skewed priorities generally. Does he want you and he to be better - more fair, reasonable, rational and decorous than them? Or to function just like them and thereby perpetuate the rot from their line of ascendancy down through his own side-line (via your marriage and future kids) so that on and on it forevermore goes, meaning, one day your kids' bfs/gfs/fiance/fiancees are the ones having problems with YOU TWO?
That's about the size of it. By all means, go get! But choose your moment. (Try, in bed, right after a damn good you-know-what.)
When I was telling these things to his parents he was smiling in a pround way, he was like happy that I was telling all these to them.Also when his dad was turning to him and telling him:oh hear what she is saying, oh is she jealous etc he was saying if you can manage her because she is very good barrista and hw was laughing..The next day I asked him: did you had problem of what I said yesterday at your parents? did it make you angry? and he said no.. He was really fine of what I said to him, his problem was that I told him in the car that I cannot unerstand how they are behaving to him like a king since they know that months ago cheated and dumped their doughter and they are bahaving to me in a different way and I am the one that I didn't do something to him or them...But in th car the time that he became furious was when I told him since I didn't do anything to them, why your mother didn't say a hello to mine and she turned her head and left...That made him crazy..and was saying don't talk to them, or maybe she didn't saw her and other things like this.. Also the next day that he was not tired and we went to the sea I told him that yesterday when your mum was there was behaving to you like a baby. You were sitting there with your wife, you are 35 and she was talking and behaving to you in a way like you were her baby..I didn't like it..And don't you think that I didn't like it because I am jealous..I didn't like it because I am with an adult and I don't want my adult let his mum behaving like he is a baby.. In these words he didn't say anything, which means that he knows that I am right and her behavior was stupid...Also I told him that in your family you are not used to hear the truth and if someone tells something that you don't like immediatly that person becomes the bad, jealous person that have problems...On the other hand I am the person that talks and say straight what bothers me..that doesn't mean that I want to manipulate you or someone else that means that I know my limits and also I can confort situations..He replied that I give attention to details...Details?
I cannot understand why suddently he cannot confort them..I mean all these years we hadn't got these kind of problems...Now he tries to find excuses for them..Like they are hypnotize him when he is there alone..In the wedding among them( father, mother, sister) you could see from his posture that he was not feeling confident..he was the kid and the other 3 the adults...the previous years he was not like this..but the previous years he was taking strenght from me as well what happened now...I am trying to understand..
I'm guessing he means you go into too much detail. So, rather than just saying, 'As you witnessed, your mother was again rude to me who doesn't deserve it yet a*se-licked your BIL-to-be who does,...snubbed both me and my mum, and additionally embarrassed us both by speaking to you like a toddler in front of others', you perhaps paint the entire picture of the event, dialogue by dialogue - verbatim, movement by tiny movement, gesture by gesture (e.g., 'and then I saw her roll her eyes when she thought you weren't looking' and 'And then I said this and she said that so I said that and...'
from start to finish as if he hadn't been there and seen and heard for himself or had no prior experience of this type of thing.
I'm betting he's not being obvious or 'enthusiastic' enough about showing you that he knows precisely what you're talking about and agrees, as would then make you feel you had to go into greater detail or even to start out like that to avoid past frustrations from all such prior incidents, in order to better convince him? But you don't waffle on to me so all I can suppose is that he gets overly emotionally agitated and flooded far too easily, whereupon he blames the source of stimulus rather than his lack of ability or capacity to cope with it. Plus if you seem to really care about it, that puts the onus and pressure onto him to have to sort them out.
Or he might even be saying that you sweat the small stuff, stuff he himself could pretend wasn't happening because it isn't worth letting it upset you? But that's easy for him to say, isn't it.
But replying that you give too much attention (or credence) to details IS, in a perverse kind of way, actually an apology because it says he's not denying the issue plus is admitting he *finds* talking about it 'exhaustively' too much for his poor little pea-brain to cope with, LOL. It was a 'Sorry, it's just that X' statement.
No, you CAN understand why he tries to make excuses for them. This short-cut up the careers ladder offer with accommodation thrown in.
In the previous years the strength he was taking for you got majorly supplemented by THE HONEYMOON HIGH! It's a drug. One self-manufactured by the brain rather than having to be introduced 'from the outside', granted, but still affecting like Cocaine and Amphetamine. Gung Ho / I Can Do Anything City! Plus, they weren't dangling this carrot in front of his nose, were they.
Anyway, let's leave aside the issue of his family and whether any sane woman could live with them with their current attitudes, because, despite the answer to that is categorically NO, it would become a moot point anyway if you could see bf were showing signs of at least *starting* to make a break for independence from them and/or showing greater team solidarity with you.
Here's what *I've* seen:
1. A show of outright aggression towards them (via her) over the phone, in the vein of, you don't get to tell me what to do in my private life.
2. Having taken not one but two well-deserved dressing-downs from you WITHOUT going ballistic and flouncing off, at best just not retorting at all, as in silence as acceptance, or at worst (or should that be the other way around?) coming out with an 'it's just that..', semi-apology statement in the car going home.
3. Visibly taking your side in laughing at them while you were piss-takingly pointing out their elephant at the wedding (which, if you think about it, is exactly the frame of mind YOU were in during that friend taking the piss about pizza and plates incident and is what happens when a victim ceases feeling so powerless against their antagonist, especially once they feel they have moral support).
I might have missed something off of that list (in which case, pop it in yourself) but those four incidents are enough to make me suspect he's testing the water with a tactic wherein if he shows enough resistance and non-solidarity (including via shows of solidatory with you), eventually they might well react by retracting their 'kind' job offer altogether. In other words, get himself rejected rather than have to be the one to do the rejecting.
Saying that, if his current job has become such a headache, meaning, leave it at some point he must, then maybe he just wants to assert himself *enough* whereby the tacit message of 'no strings can be attached/terms have to be two-way' gets through loud and clear.
That he needs your help (which he apparently does respond to) is, as I say, understandable when up against these two 'forces to be reckoned with'. So I don't think you should hold that against him or 'mark him down' for it.
I suggest that you speed up that attempt of his by always talking in the first person plural on this topic. Example (emphasis asterisks for your illustrative benefit only), 'I reckon if *we* were to relax *our* guard or roll over for one minute, your parents would have *us both* back in nappies and strapped fast into a *double stroller* faster than *we* could say Babywipe! So what's *our* plan, how are *we* going to deal with this? 'Think *we* should X or Y?'
That way (reference "And he was screaming ok why you are saying it to me??"
- you're not saying it to HIM, you're saying it to you+he, the team. Diff/all the diff.
Hey, no important news...things are good without problems and fights and he is like he was before he become what he became the last period....
I never asked you, about your knowledge..is it from experience?
Including that, yes. But never mind about me, let's just celebrate the fact you two seem to have learned from and got over that sticky hurdle enough to relegate it to the past!
So, when you say 'without problems', do you mean that even his parents have got back in their boxes, meaning, now you're back to planning to marry him? Or is he, unbeknownst to him, on probation in that one regard?
I mean that his parents till now are in distance.. We went for a week at our parents place and he was sleeping at my parents house all these days..Also I told him again that I don't want us to move there and stay under his parents because he knows very well that they will not give us space..He agreed but he said that If I will be finding a job we could manage better to stay here that we are now... But in general he is close to me as he used to be.. but I try and keep us in distance from his family and when we are there I make sure that I am with him...so no time for them to play their role...What worries me is that I visited his grandparents (the parent's of his mother) they stay under his parents and actually they are the one that grow him up...As I said what worried me is that they play the role of his mum...I mean the are asking questions of what we are doing and they are propose solutions the same as his mum...She put them in the play as well...So we have to face 4 people now..And he loves his grandparents so much and they play with his emotions...So I don't know how I can face it...what attitude to have... and how I can manipulate their manipulation...
'Scuse the late response.
"but I try and keep us in distance from his family and when we are there I make sure that I am with him...so no time for them to play their role"
I think regarding the troops of two having become doubled, you and mister man are going to have to forge an agreement to humour them - which I call going invisibly floppy on the supermarket floor. For example, 'Oh, no, what you wanna do is X, not Y' / 'Interesting suggestion, thanks, we'll look into that! [smile]'. ...And then you don't.
And if/when the next time they ask after your progress on that score, you make some excuse for not having don so and say thanks for the reminder to look into it. ...And then you don't.
Humans are programmed not to bang their heads (TOO many times) against brick walls. You keep flopping on the floor and they'll soon get bored and give up. BUT!... because you've not been overt about it or rude, if in the future you genuinely DO need their help, the door is still open.
Yes, it's passive-aggressive but, self-guilt not! - passive-aggression is just a tool, whether it gets used for bad reasons as opposed to good is not its fault, doesn't make it automatically bad. Sometimes it's the only tool at one's disposal through no fault of one's own and can work just as well for the power of good. You two have to see it as you both AS A TEAM protecting your relationship from intruders. That is a good and healthy 'base point' from which to operate. In fact, get that agreement under your team belt and then his emotions will become impervious to suit, all on their own. Furthermore, there's now't better than a common cause or enemy to bond a team of two that much more quickly and tightly. (These people are tools too, look, LOL.)
Those four should get lives of their own. That's what's going on here. You two obviously have all the fun, LOL.
I never asked you about his drinking..I mean he had and has 'bad' behavior when he is drinking..and the last period he is drinking, not everyday but he is drinking for sure 3 times a week and the problem is that when he is drinking he doesn't know when to stop..I don't know how to talk with him about it and what behavior it is better to have when he is coming home after he has drink..I am very angry with him when he is coming home after he has drink and he becomes angry with me because he says that I have this behavior with no reason..I want him to undertand that I have this behavior because he is drunk..Any ideas? Also when I am saying to him why you are drinking he is saying to relax and because I ahve issues with job etc..
1. On which three days of the week does he drink?
2. Is it evenings only?
3. Do these evenings tend to follow difficult days at the workplace?
4. Does there tend to be set days on which this workplace aggravation takes place - say, the days when a normally on-the-road sales rep is in the office to catch up with his admin or when staff meetings occur?
5. What does he drink and how many glasses of what size?
6. Describe his behaviour from the point of his coming through the front door. OR are you saying he comes through the door perfectly contented but your meeting him with anger sets him off (and disproportionate to the size of your disapproving words plus tone of voice)?
He doesn't drink specific days and yes it is evenings after work, and also the last period that his job isn't going very well he wents for drinks....During the summer he usually drink beers like 5 pints. The change of his behavior starts before him to come home. For example: it is supposed that 3 o' clock he will be home, I will be waiting him to eat together. When he will go for drinks he will not inform me, he will not be answering my calls and he will come home around 6. When he will come home I am already very angry because he didn't inform me and I was waitint for him...I told him that I want him to let me know that he will be for drinks and to answer my call.His excuse is that I will nag if he will tell me that's why he is not telling me..I told him that I am nagging because he is doing it without to know it and I am waiting for him..We have these conversations again and again but every time the same thing is happenning... Also when he comes home and I am already angry he starts to tell me that he will do whatever he wants and he will not ask me... He knows that what he does affects me but he prefrs to hide it and not to change it...
It's not his drinking, then, is it, it's the fact he's not doing what a partner should in consulting/informing of his intended movements and making himself accessible phone-wise, instead coming and going like a free agent.
Why are you cooking all the meals anyway? Are you his wife yet? No, you're not, is the answer to that. Why isn't he doing his share? Because you're not working and he is? You don't need to, you have an income (which you don't need to feel guilty about). So if you're going to do him the HUGE FAVOUR of playing cook and bottle washer then the least he can do is act like he appreciates it. He can't have the perks of a serious relationship if he's not going to align his behaviour to a serious relationship; that simple. It's his behaviour that WARRANTS repetition ("nagging"
due to its unacceptability in context of a cohabitational relationship, ergo he is the nag.
If you've tried to discuss it with him but got nowhere, cease cooking, cease making yourself available and waiting around for him to get home and just get your own supper. If he wants to 'pub it' after work and be unanswerable like a single man then he can damn well cook his own supper like a single man. In other words, his rule works both ways for both partners so YOU'RE going to do whatever you want and not ask him.
Two wrongs may not make a right but where inconsiderate people are concerned, there's nothing like a taste of their own medicine to drive a point home. His enforced rule, he either lives by it - ALL OF IT - with only himself to blame or changes it.
Saying that - did he ever ask or indicate that he expected you to play housewife or is that something you just fell automatically into?
It is his drinking as well because when he drinks he becomes drunk and he has a very annoying behavior..About the cooking I am cooking because I am home and I have spare time and also I love cooking. He never expected me to play housewife I am just doing these things not because I feel like I have to but because I want to..He used to help me with the house work and also he was appreciating all these things.He used to say everywhere that he is very lucky because I am cooking and he has fresh meal everyday and that I am a very good cooker.. But as I said when he changed and we had the fights he told me that I don't have a job, I am all day home and do nothing, I just want to check him and tell him what to do and that the things in the house he can do them by himself and also about the cooking he will be finding to eat... Also I remember once that his mum called home and she was talking with me she asked if I cooked and I said that I am always cooking don't worry..and she replied that I don't worry about these things because even if you were not cooking he will be finding something to eat....that happened 2 years ago...When I told him what she said he replied that she is stupid and she talks bu@#$$shit!!! But he used the same words the last period...
Okay then, so it's both, but order of priority now established.
I realise you're cooking because you enjoy it and have the time to, but that doesn't justify why you're cooking for the two of you as if man and wife already when your so-called nearly-husband is behaving in ways COUNTER to that status. Cook for yourself only. And when, inevitably, he asks why, tell him straight: I'll behave like your wife when you behave like my husband, can't say fairer than that!
This is what's been happening: he's got with you and for a while there tried to match your standards, but since then has slowly but surely been trying bit-by (he hopes)-imperceptible-bit to stretch the boundaries and lower his own conduct to see what he can and can't get away with - now and into the marriage to come.
I'm sure if you'd all along been saying he wasn't ALLOWED to help out with housework and other household duties he'd have bust a gut trying to prove that nobody tells HIM what to do (yawn). This guy's got a swollen ego (thanks to all the past kicking). He feels controlled from every other angle (parents, work...who knows what else) so his remedy is to try to get his way with YOU. You're the only person he CAN get it with, by the sounds of it. In other words, he's treating you Less Than only because you stand for it - by doing NOTHING but complaining with your mouth (nag, nag, nag). Or, to put it like it IS, have been pulling HIS nagging (nagging refusal to behave as he knows he ought) up from under the table and pointing to it. But with your mouth.
Men like him will put up with verbal aggro because it's cheap compared to getting their way over things they ought not. After years with his parents he's probably learned how to mostly tune it out anyway.
I repeat: You are lucky and shouldn't feel ashamed for it (especially as you're not lucky in places you should be!) so if you have the good fortune to be able to 'sit around all day doing nothing' and that makes him envious - BOO-HOO TO HIM. It doesn't mean you have to be the one to compensate for his sense of being parentally hard-done by, does it? Pff, course it bloody doesn't! What is this - 'misery loves company'?
'Just WANT to check up on him and tell him what to do'? YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CHECK UP NOR TELL HIM WHAT TO DO - HE SHOULD KNOW ALREADY.
And he does. So we're back full-circle to, taking his lack of control and sense of hardship out on you.
What does he think you are - his mother?!
Hmm, maybe he does. And despite his claims that he can do these courtesies himself, I don't see him actually DOING them, do you? Added to which, his response to your telling him what his mother said puts paid to any such 'do it myself' claims. So the solution is simple, then, isn't it? Cease behaving like her (or how she clearly used to). No unconditional love and perks, including no providing his supper despite he's been a naughty and disrespectful little boy.
From now on, it's Pay As You Pay. Let's see how he likes THEM apples! They're his apples that HE AND ONLY HE plonked in your relationship to begin with, so...
You need toughening up, my gal. Did anyone ever tell you that?
Actually no nobody told me that I need to toughening up because they think that I am tough enough since I am not discussing these things...and when I discussed it with my friends they were not telling me something...Also in this relationship everything was expect the last period..I had the 'words ' from his family but he was next to me, supporting our relationship and putting limits to them...But all these changed... I believe that they had enough spare time when I was away for my master and did their job and he changed because he is very sensitive they have their way... I really don't know how to behave because this is new to me... He became again his mum boy...he gives her space by telling her what we are doing...for example we went weekend away and he did spearfishing and after he had earache. He wake up in the morning with the earache and I told him go to the doctor or to the pharmacist. He left and came back with eardrops.But what he did was to call his mum (she is a nurse assistant) and ask her what drops to take. ( I know it because I show the txt message that she send to him). He said to me that he didn't go to the doctor and that he went to the pharmacy and the pharmacist gave him these drops and told him the dosage. But all these the ear drops and the dosage was from his mum...A lie again..Why? I really need someone to tell me what to do....he hides from me stupid stupid things...Also he used to say that his mum thinks that she is a doctor and knows everything in an ironic way... what changed and the same person that was telling all thiese negative things for her and had her in distance of his life suddendly put her in and gives her soooo much space in our life?
I am trying to understand if something changed in my behavior as well and he behaves like this...
Like I said before (I think?), he's not quite left home yet, has he.
But is it such a problem if he wants to capitalise on his mother's knowledge in preference to your own when it comes to a specialist subject? Or do you suspect that he's AWARE you're secretly in competition with his mother, a situation he deliberately stokes - perhaps even created - because it gets you sitting up more to attention, particularly through his putting a sort of illicit spin on it all via hiding the fact he's sought her out?
I agree he's a manipulative little wotsit, but...are you sure you're as into him nowadays as you believe and used to be? I do seem to be getting a sense of you desperately 'saying to him' this: Ach, why can't you make me love you more!
I am not into him when he behaves like a baby...I am saying to him can you become an adult again and engage to me like you used to? And yes he is the one that created these issues with his family...He was the one that wanted us to put limits in his parents and especially in his mother, he was the one that couldn't stand her and I had a neutral stand for all these...Also when he had the fight with them about the job and he told me that don't want to see them again I was the one that I told him that they are your parents just stand in your position and talk to them..And I did the same when we started our relationship years ago because they had fight with him because they didn't want me and he stopped talking with them for 6 months and I was the one that was telling to him you have to talk with them. And I did all these because I didn't want to have negative feelings with them and I wanted him to try and find his position in this family...And that happened and everything was fine...But now no he is not the same person, he behaves like a baby, and I feel in times that I am his mum and have fights with him..So my point is what I lost, what happened and what behavior I must have..And my problem is not that he asked her for a health issue is that he hided it from me...no reason..
"I am not into him when he behaves like a baby"
Are you not? Me, I find it a complete turn-on when they behave like that.
I also agree it's very bad etiquette, not to mention short-sighted (aka thick!), for him to rally the troops (you) against any person he's identified to you as being a common enemy of the relationship, so to speak, only to then turn around and make peace with her AS AN INDIVIDUAL as then leaves you still in the (under-the-table) firing line.
He seems to change the rules to suit whatever fleeting agenda, doesn't he.
Like I said before, psychologically there's a tug-o'-war going on ...with HIMSELF more than between you (representative of his having flown the nest) and his parents. Is he a teenager who allows his parents over-influence or is he an independent operative? Clearly, not even he knows. But I do suspect that wherever he happens to stand on that 'map' at any given period tends to be a direct reflection of where you and he are at, loved-up-and-harmonious wise, meaning, when things aren't so ticketyboo it's suddenly "Ma-ma, Dadda!" all over again.
So, like I've just said up there - yes, there IS a reason why he hid the text from you. In fact, as is usually the case, MORE than one. Those I can work out from here are:  To try to keep from you the fact he's behaving like a giant, two-faced idiot and  to automatically trigger your sense of female-female/matriarchal competition by wrapping the action in Illicit-coloured wrapping paper.
Here's a good one:
"Isn't supper ready yet?"
"I dunno. Have you not texted your mum to ask?"
So, then, it seems your solution is to find a way of maintaining standard as well as personal rules and boundaries but WITHOUT coming over in any way, shape or form like would a mother. That means you don't complain/chide/nag, you just respond with YOUR FEET. Refer to above, Don't be a wife and cook his suppers, wash his clothes, etc., if and for as long as he's not being a husband by keeping you informed, showing that YOU'RE his evenings priority, or treating alcohol with adult respect. Pretend you're a mute, whereby, all she CAN do is protest via her actions/lack of...because her voicebox doesn't work. If you've asked him once (properly), you've asked him ENOUGH TIMES, meaning, if he fails to willingly abide then HE LOSES OUT TOO, BUT EVEN MORE THAN YOU.
I normally would always advocate a mature, civil, sit-down conversation over return acting-out, but you sound like you've tried to discuss it reasonably and rationally until you're Blue in the face. So now you have three choices:
1. Decide that, all along, under the sophisticated sheep's clothing, was a lesser sheep (simultaneously inclined to play wolf), just gagging to burst out (once it was safe to) and regretfully dump the dud into the filing cabinet marked 'Nearly but Not Quite', OR
2. (Baby Step
Threaten genuinely to demote the relationship back to just bf/gf if he doesn't shape up asap, by you moving out and finding your own pad, meanwhile putting (cough!) you both back on trial period in terms of a return to cohabitation as the relationship's next goal, OR
3. Play him at his own game BUT BETTER: Play by HIS rules and thereby drive home the fact that a relationship is a micro, EQUAL RIGHTS society of two meaning all laws and rules are member-indiscriminate and cut both ways. So if he doesn't LIKE you ceasing to behave like "'Er Ondoors" then he'll have only himself to blame, won't he - for having started it - and will have to go back to where he was before he started behaving like a self-serving, some time mummy's boy.
Wait - I forgot 4: whack him over the head with your frying pan!
(Sorry - 'Er Indoors)
HELP for tomorrow!!!
A friend of him called him couple of hours ago when we were in the car and told him tomorrow after work to go for drinks! The thing is that when he hang up the phone he told me that his friend called him to tell him that he has to give him some money that another friend owns to him... But I heard from the phone that his friend was telling him to go for drinks and he said ok!! And to me he said this lie... I didn't tell him that he is telling me lies and I heard what they were talking about..I behaved like I believed what he told me.My problem is that since that time I am very angry because I wanted to shout to him you are a liar! But I stayed calm cause I know that every time that I have this behavior there is no result. So I suppose that he will not tell me that he will go for drinks after job, if I will call him he will not answer and when he will come home he will say to me that he had more work to do that;s why he came late etc etc. So what you suggest me to do..Do you think that is good idea to tell him that I know your plans and you lied to me? Do you think that I must continue to pretend that I don't know anything? What is the best thing to do? I am very very angry!
Yesterday I called him when he was still at work and I asked him to go out for lunch! He said ok so we went out for lunch and then for drinks...I never said what I heard and also he didnt go out with his friend... Today he told me that they will go for fishing at night and I said to him ok what time you will leave in order to arrange with a friend of mine to go out...He said no you will not go out at night without me and I said to him I am adult so I can go wherever I want without you and since you will go for fishing I will go for drinks...
How do you explain the thing that when he has a few drinks he can make 'difficult' conversations? I mean yesterday when we went out to eat and drink after the 3 beer he start talking about the job, about the house about everything and also he was listening to me without to become angry of what I was saying and we had the same conversations that when I start them he says I nag and when he is at home with no drink he is not doing them... He feels stronger when he drinks?
The nigh fishing- how often has he gone nigh fishing?
Yes stop the Pretending especially when you have first hand knowledge and know for a fact that he's lying. I wold still address the issue of him lying regardless if he went or not.
If he goes on this fishing trip, stick with your plans to go out, even if it's by yourself. If he calls don't answer. If you decide to answer his call be sure you're in a noisy bar/restaurant. (lol)people.
Alcohol does have an effect on people personality, sometimes it's called"LIQUID COURAGE" They may say or do things that they usually would not.
Sorry, XJTerry, I've been far too busy these last few days to post or even pay attention to alerts. Sorry about that. And thanks, Skinnygirl, for filling in for me!
I'm glad it was you, actually, because you and I do seem to agree on virtually everything.
... on which note, XJ, like SG says - yes, why WOULD you pretend you hadn't heard what the real arrangement was? Is that you trying to avoid another argument?
I think we can guess why he'd lie, given our previous discussion about that bone of contention between the two of you and his bloody-minded determination not to ever be told what to do by you. But who the hell does he think he is, telling YOU you can't go out at night without him! You realise it's because he doesn't want some other bloke chatting you up and asking you out? Well, if he fears other men encroaching on 'his territory' to that extent then his solution is simple, surely, :-p! It certainly doesn't involve hypocrisy!
Ye gods, talk about an over-entitled attitude?! He wants this relationship all on his terms and his alone, doesn't he? I think his drinking habit and whatever mood/agenda at the time it happens to exacerbate or dampen is the LEAST of your problems, I really do. And I think I've just come full circle back to my very first response on this thread about this spoiled baby excuse of a man. To not put too fine a point on it - he's an immature TW*T! He has too little self-control, too little independence, too little foresight or consideration for the long-term, too little sense of fair play and is so chauvenistic and dual-standarded that in my opinion he borders on misogynistic (UGH!),...and the rest! This guy makes the majority of the male population look bad!
I don't think there's anything you can do about this chocolate teapot, save for either accepting he is the way he is and is unlikely to change in "YOUR lifetime" or finally accept that he is NOT "the one". Not for someone like you who's got her head screwed on right and clearly is after an equal-rights relationship, anyway. Sorry to say so, but you can't force a man to be considerate, fair and decent if he doesn't want to.
What you CAN do, though - which is what I suggested a few days ago (ref refusing to play wifey) and which SG's advice aligns with, is CHANGE YOURSELF, starting with how you conduct yourself in this relationship. Start to treat him like you and he are just dating/live apart, meaning, he is henceforth on probation. If he wants to keep you close then the manly way to do that is to woo you and KEEP wooing you, not manipulate or boss you around, etc., in negative ways. So whenever he misbehaves or acts inappropriately, cool off a good few degrees and only respond positively and warmly whenever he does something MATURE AND GENTLEMANLY. Basically dog-train him.
Your only other realistic option - given that you can't tolerate a long, formal separation or telling him it's over and keeping it that way for a good 4 months in the hope that it puts a permanent firework up his jacksie - is to wait for yet more time to pass. Because let's face it, more and more these days he's just kicking the love out of you - correct? - meaning, you are going to be one of those people who just wakes up one morning, feeling NOTHING...at which point, you'll be off and he'll be crying you a river. (Or not?)
He doesn't want a partner, he wants a slave.