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Toxic frenemy

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Relationship advice There is a girl in my social group who is highly toxic and I only recently realized just how toxic she is. Essentially she cornered me (by asking for a ride somewhere that was nearly three hours away), then spent the entire time telling me about how a mutual friend had emotionally and sexually abused her over a period of several months (in very graphic details). Then as soon as she saw the Accused, she greeted him as though he was her long lost best friend and asked to spend the night at Accused's place.

(So, for what it's worth, I don't believe she was telling the truth. I think she just wanted to ensure that I hate Accused. She has done other things to try to turn me against Accused, although none so blatant, and I suspect has done similar things to try to turn Accused against me. I am no longer close to Accused I suspect in large part because of her meddling, even though we were very close prior.)

I have broached the topic in the past (although with less evidence) with Accused about how she made me uncomfortable and was told that I was being paranoid and "reading too much into things". So I am disinclined to bring it up with Accused.

I have also discussed how upset I was about this conversation with another friend (who dislikes Toxic Girl), without giving as many details as I've supplied here (essentially just stating how uncomfortable the conversation made me), and her opinion was that I need to warn some of our mutual friends about Toxic Girl + break it off with other mutual friends who have a long relationship with Toxic Girl. Other than that, I've kept this incident to myself.

Toxic Girl has her sights set on another mutual friend (who she thinks she is dating, although he thinks they are just friends). I feel torn. I don't want to come across as paranoid, interfering, or gossipy by warning Toxic Girl's Potential Boyfriend about Toxic Girl. I don't want to let her ruin Potential Boyfriend's life, either. (Which I fear she will do when he inevitably doesn't behave as she would like.)

I also don't know how to deal with Toxic Girl re: other mutual friends. Do I tell them why I'm uncomfortable around her (because she appears to be trying to poison me against Accused and has made some really serious allegations about him), or not? (I know she'll deny them, if she's confronted.) Do I tell Accused that she's saying all this about him behind his back, just to pretend she adores him to his face?

Thanks to all who answer!

Toxic frenemy

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This is the hardest problem known to man. I kid, but it is a difficult problem.

1. Toxic girl spreads false rumor to you about mutual friend, saying he sexually abused her. Then, same girl great same male "who abused her" very warmly and wants to spend night at his house.

A. Two tips that Toxic Girl was sexually abused. One is, she used the term, sexual abuse, and that this was done to her by someone. Of all the terms, why did she pick that one? Because she was sexually abused. The 2nd tip that she was sexually abused is her behavior. Trying to break people up. Since sexually abused people often don't have a personality, that was taken away with the abuse, and replaced with anger, they have to break others up, because they6 can't form relationships themselves, but they still want to win. Such people also want control, who's friends with who, because they don't want that sexual abuse to happen again, so they want to control every situation.

If she's been sexually abused, she's probably a borderline personality syndrome person, you can look that up on the net and see her characteristics. (In the last year or so, they've changed some of those characteristics around (to be politically correct), so you might have to look at 5 or 10 websites and descriptions to find one that's accurate. But keep looking till you find one that matches her.)

B. You already know she's lying, but to show it further, why would a female who had been sexually abused by male A., then ask male A if she can spend the night with him? What if after she's gone to sleep, he gets up in the middle of the night and does that again? Plus, she has to control situations, and that's an out of control situation that she's asking for. So she's not telling the truth, on 2 or 3 counts.

C. As a borderline personality syndrome person who was sexually abused, when the trauma occurred, it divided her ego as a protective measure. On one side of the divided ego is where she lives, and on the other side is where the trauma is. It's almost like she's 2 people: That's how she can talk of Boy A in terror terms, and then when she sees him, she greets him warmly and wants to spend the night with him. It's because she's 2 people (1 person divided) living in one body.

You said, "(So, for what it's worth, I don't believe she was telling the truth. I think she just wanted to ensure that I hate Accused. She has done other things to try to turn me against Accused, although none so blatant, and I suspect has done similar things to try to turn Accused against me. I am no longer close to Accused I suspect in large part because of her meddling, even though we were very close prior.)

You're right. I told my psychiatrist about my borderline wife trying to separate me from all of my frieneds, and he ageeded, saying, "She's probably try to turn you and I against each other." And she did do that. Whenever I came home from a doctor, she would say, "What did the doctor say?" I would tell her, and she would discount every thing the doctor had said. And sometimes, I would go back to the doctor with my wife's version of what was true, and the doctor and I would have problems getting along.

You said, "I am no longer close to Accused I suspect in large part because of her meddling, even though we were very close prior." Again, you're right. My wife turned my son and grandson against me. They're very sick, they're very affective.

You say, "Do I tell Accused that she's saying all this about him behind his back, just to pretend she adores him to his face?" I am now involved, and for the past 6 or 8 years, with an entire neighborhood who has been told a false rumor about me, and I'm wondering almost every day, "How am I supposed to handle this?"

I try to stay positive by figuring out what's going on for one thing. One, I think the rumor was started by a woman who was sexually abused. So figuring that out is a big help. And being positive is a big help. She battled me for 8 years over a false argument and what she hoped to accomplish did happen. Somebody moved away from the neighborhood. But it wasn't me, like she had hoped. She forced she and her family out of their own neighborhood. She ran hderself off of her own street. How did that happen? I just kept staying positive, and plus I was in the right, and everytime they came up with a plan that got too strong, I stayed positive and said, now you're going to have to come up with a counter plant to off set this, and I did.

OK, what about the new neighbors who will be told the same false rumor by the same person who started it all? How do I handle that? I have a friend who lives next door to the new neighbors. I think I'm gong to say to her, look, when they come next door to talk with you about this rumor, here's the truth, my friend, or they'll be moving out just like the previous people did.


You say, "I have also discussed how upset I was about this conversation with another friend (who dislikes Toxic Girl), without giving as many details as I've supplied here (essentially just stating how uncomfortable the conversation made me), and her opinion was that I need to warn some of our mutual friends about Toxic Girl + break it off with other mutual friends who have a long relationship with Toxic Girl. Other than that, I've kept this incident to myself."

So it's good you got someone to agree with you.

You say, "I don't want to come across as paranoid, interfering, or gossipy by warning Toxic Girl's Potential Boyfriend about Toxic Girl. I don't want to let her ruin Potential Boyfriend's life, either. (Which I fear she will do when he inevitably doesn't behave as she would like.)

Very hard decision to make. I can just say, I know what you're going through. Maybe if someone asks you about her, you can caution them, according to how well you know the person you're talking to.

So, I know what you're going through. You sound like you're handling it very well.

Toxic frenemy

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You don't say how old everyone is in your story, but it might be a good idea to turn on your heel and find another entire group of people to associate with.

All this drama . . . all the lies . . . the games . . . the back stabbing and gossiping . . . is that the way you want to live?


Toxic frenemy

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SUSIEDQQQ - I'm going to answer you quickly as it's the easier one to answer. :)

We are all far too old for this (late twenties to mid-thirties). And I agree, it's ridiculous.

I have other friends and have been spending more time with them and less time with the friends in Toxic Girl's circle because of her. I'm considering cutting all friends who are close to Toxic Girl out of my life as I don't need this drama.

With that said, I do like a lot of the people (including Potential Boyfriend and, in the past, Accused, as well as friends who love Toxic Girl enough that she was their bridesmaid), so am hesitant to remove them from my life. It's the hard part. If there were no mutual friends, I'd just say, "Screw you and your drama!" As it is, it's tough. I don't want to be part of this nonsense. I don't want to just vanish, either. I also don't want to vanish and let her hurt my friends. (Although this may be inevitable.)

Toxic frenemy

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PJVL - Thank you for your experience. It sounds tough. *hugs* But it's nice to have someone to commiserate with!

"Two tips that Toxic Girl was sexually abused. One is, she used the term, sexual abuse, and that this was done to her by someone."

It seems highly probable. She has a lot of other very odd attitudes towards sex which she mentioned during our lengthy car ride. (She was discussing a new boyfriend - not Potential, rather someone who she is officially with, even though she is still pursuing Potential and Accused - and mentioned that after sex she is "very vulnerable, because someone was inside her" and is angry with New Boyfriend because he wasn't sensitive enough to her emotional needs during her "vulnerable time", by asking her the right questions, paying the right kind of attention to her, etc. She's decided to dump him because of this. When I asked her whether it might make sense to *ask* for the attention she wanted (since he might not know that this is what she required to feel safe/secure/whatever), she shook off the suggestion. To her, if he wasn't able to read her mind, he's bad and she wants him gone.)

"she's probably a borderline personality syndrome person, you can look that up on the net and see her characteristics."

This, too, I highly suspect, whether or not she was abused in the past.

"You already know she's lying, but to show it further, why would a female who had been sexually abused by male A., then ask male A if she can spend the night with him? What if after she's gone to sleep, he gets up in the middle of the night and does that again? Plus, she has to control situations, and that's an out of control situation that she's asking for. So she's not telling the truth, on 2 or 3 counts."

Yeah, I highly suspect that he didn't (in her words) "force her to have sex, by harassing, touching, and belittling her, after she'd repeatedly told him she didn't want to have sex ever again because he made her feel worthless, disgusting, and horrible about herself" because she did go home with him (when she had several other options that were offered to her at the time). It would just be weird to put herself in the line of fire, did she truly believe that he would "harass" and "force" her again. Add into it that I know Accused and, while one never entirely knows a friend, I trust him. I don't believe he'd do that.

"That's how she can talk of Boy A in terror terms, and then when she sees him, she greets him warmly and wants to spend the night with him. It's because she's 2 people (1 person divided) living in one body."

Yeah, I see a lot of this and the other things you're describing. It's like there are two Toxic Girls. One is your BFF, who's sweet and energetic and charming. The other is determined to destroy everything she can.

"My wife turned my son and grandson against me. They're very sick, they're very affective."

Unfortunately, yes. I'm worried she's going to continue doing this to my friends + any new people they bring into their lives. (i.e. any girl Potential tries to date or even just befriend in the future.)

"with an entire neighborhood who has been told a false rumor about me, and I'm wondering almost every day, "How am I supposed to handle this?""

Yeah, I really don't know. I hate this kind of situation.

"And being positive is a big help. She battled me for 8 years over a false argument and what she hoped to accomplish did happen. Somebody moved away from the neighborhood. But it wasn't me, like she had hoped. She forced she and her family out of their own neighborhood."

That's what I feel like she's doing. I don't want to let her "win" by abandoning my friends. Then again, I'm really tired of this BS and am wondering why I'm putting up with it considering that I do have other friends who don't engage in these theatrics.

"Maybe if someone asks you about her, you can caution them, according to how well you know the person you're talking to."

Yeah. I'm considering just avoiding her and, if someone asks, tell them, and otherwise just abandon the group. If no one cares enough to ask, then that's really *their* problem, not mine.

But on the other hand, I'm also frustrated that I'm losing a lot of people I care about because of Toxic Girl. I'm also worried about what she'll do to them. Slinking off and letting her work her toxicity seems like "letting her win". But I'm not sure what else I can do. (To be honest, probably nothing. But ugh, I hate being in that position, if that makes any sense.)

And I have a mutual friend's party coming up. I'm half tempted to say I won't be able to make it, just because she'll be there and I don't want to interact with her. What to do, what to do...

Toxic frenemy

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As far as the upcoming party is concerned:

You go, you see, you kick her ass.

Hey, it's a joke. Go to the party and report back every detail of what she does.

Toxic frenemy

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Tartan - I've seriously considered doing that!

Ultimately, though, how I think I'm going to handle it is to ignore her. This means that yeah, I won't go to a lot of events (because she's there), but ultimately, she stresses me out, I have other friends, other stuff to do, etc.

I warned Potential Boyfriend of her behavior and he was like, "Um, I'm going to have to clear up that we're *not* dating", but he also seemed weirdly non-plused by her stating that Accused raped her! (That was *really* weird to me.) But I feel like I've said my piece. If Accused or Potential Boyfriend want more details, I'll give them to them. But at this point, she's out of my life (which I feel relieved by), I've given my warning (so I won't feel guilty when they get stung by her behavior), and it's OVER. It's a weirdly refreshing feeling.

(Of course, we'll see whether she stays gone. *sigh*)

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