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Moving In Together After Online/long Distance..

Posted by
NANA
on Jan 27 2016 at 10:48
Member since: 27 January 2016
Online Dating advice forum category advice forum category first of all hello and thx for having me here..i kinda feel bad for not getting more info and looking through other articles before my bf moved to my country..so my questions is, what if we fucked it all up? i dont even know where to start..

1.for me it was waaay to quick with the physical part so i felt extremly overwhelmed for not setting boudaries which made me very mad because i didnt tell him on time and when i did (took me some time to figure it out) he took it way too personally

2. the paperwork took us extremly long, we didnt rly take care of anything before he came to here..we just found him a job..and that added a lot of fear(if it would work out him living here and so on)

3.well the job..it was a joke, after arguing with the boss or who ever was responsible for the pay, he got payed more then the other apprentices but he had to work 80h a week..back then he used to tell me how he just moved here to be with me and that he doesnt wanna "live" at his work place..i have to admit and im rly ashamed of that, that i was rly happy not having him arround all the time because i was so overwhelmed and it always got so touchy ...after some time he kept telling me that he wants to quit..(after 2-3 weeks) and i said yes ofc..so after he quit he was at home, i was the one who was supporting him(a man doesnt like that i would assume..he did feel very bad about that)..i was still mad(passive aggressive, because the communication fucked up, because we didnt wanna hurt eachother with concerns-fyi we had such a great communication when we where living appart)

4.as i already mentioned we fucked up with the communication and we just blamed eachother...

5.the focus that we had while talking on the phone, skyping or chatting was suddenly gone..everything else was more important or was stressing us out so we didnt even think about to reconnect from time to time...and that went on and on..

6. we pressured ourself A LOT! because we both said we found the soulmate we needed wanted-what ever-we found the person we wanted to be with for the rest of our lives...oh and what i forgot-we moved in together 2-3 month after i visited him for the first time, before that we enjoyed eachother for 1 year almost..and it was great..

well after some month at home and a lot of fights and misunderstandings because the communication fucked up totally, i started recognizing him being sad .. the reason was he started feeling the present situation, he stopped thinking about what rly mattered (maybe?) and the bad and sad stuff was everywhere all of a sudden..he started saying that he loves me but he isnt in love with me..some weeks later he said that i was a different person and that he is too..(he said that somehow with all the shit that happened he lost himself..)i feel very very bad that i was a different person..that stress made me think like a crazy person..and for weeks now im trying not to make him sad and give him some positivity atleast..he said he needed that because i got extremly sad when he told me what was going on... its like a mania..u cant get out of the sadness..thinking about all that is wrong now..feeling how the love isnt there anymore..makes me rly sad..i already told him( i assumed that he felt very overwhelmed and scared and angry) that im not gonna keep him here..he is free to go if he feels like we cant make it...the thing is he reacted pretty well to that, he rly wanted to fix it and it kinda "untrapped" him in some way..i would rly like to know how to get where we were..i am searching for articles on the net for weeks now..trying to figure out what to do..but there is a lot that happened and i dont rly know where to start...for him and for me it feels like we r total strangers..i guess its because at some point we didnt feel like we could express ourselves..its rly sad..but im not gonna give up..because as i already said, deep down, he is the one and im the one for him..we just have to put in some work..the questions is..where to start..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 6 2016 at 19:27
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Apologies for the delay)

So you committed too fast, too soon (or were so high on Honeymoon Heroin you allowed yourself to be rushed?), only to discover that, despite men *normally* dislike being out of work, this one's actions indicated the direct opposite when, first, he tried after only a piddly 2-3 weeks of employment to quite seriously push his luck with his bosses by insisting on a more full-time wage packet (which they rightly refused unless his hours upped more to full-time to suit - 80 per week, 8hrs per day as is pretty standard these days) and then complained about how he'd relocated only so as to be with you, not to have to hold down a full-time job, meaning he ended up engineering for himself, via you, a life of complete leisure?... at your total expense?

Does that honestly gel with a man not liking that he wasn't bringing home the bacon? Or is it just one that's making all the appropriate noises in order to convey the *impression* the predicament doesn't suit his male pride? Because, again, I'd say his actions spoke entirely the opposite, actually - wouldn't you?

Tell me, when first discussing the move, what back then did he say about how he expected to help support you both as a cohabiting couple, or even just himself at the very least? Or did he assume, or somehow gain the impression, you'd be willing to act like a mother to a teenage son, out of desperation and gratitude for getting to have a relationship with him, by financing his entire existence?

Is that wholly or partly why he originally tried to rush you - because he could envisage a free meal ticket and life of leisure which he couldn't wait to get started? Or, possibly, thought the streets were paved with Gold, meaning, an easy life compared to his old one, replete with a low-effort, part-time job (but for big wages)? And is that - you forced to behave like a mother to a grown man at your expense, with willingness and calibre of free, honest and civil communication slowly-but-steadily getting taken off the table (to the point where only passive-aggression were open to you as a means to self-assert), plus an end to any more Me Time, instead constant company - what you signed up for, back before he moved over and in?

Is he BEHAVING like one soulmate to another, do you think?

Honeymoon Period is *always* great. It's what happens afterwards, when the humdrum routine of life creeps back into the bubble, that really reveals the true colours.

This 'crazy person thinking' you say you fell prey to. Can you give me some examples?

And am I reading you and between your lines correctly?... that your 'stress and crazy talk' centred around you trying to get him to step up to various masculine and soulmate-like plates, whereupon he fairly rapidly began basically threatening you with the 'fact' that he was starting to go off you and might have to terminate the relationship? ...And that once you dropped those things, suddenly he got a bit of a smile back on his face, so to speak, and started to be nicer again?

You seeing what I'm seeing yet?

So what does this 'positivity' that you're giving him lately involve, specifically? Dropping all those expectations and demands for him to pull his weight on practical and emotional-romantic levels both?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 6 2016 at 19:30
Member since: 19 August 2014
Sorry, just realised my own mistake: 80/week equals 16 hrs per day, not 8. But that sounds inordinate. You sure you meant 80/week? (And do I take it you somehow helped him get this job?)
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Feb 10 2016 at 12:13
Member since: 27 January 2016
hello soulmate,

thank u for the reply.

i have the feeling u misunderstood or lets say i didnt explain well enough. let me try again:

my bf and i r both from "rich" countries( sry for the lack of my englisch vocabulary)and the reason why he moved instead of me moving to his country is because my mom got sick a year ago and i would feel bad leaving her (the illness is fatal)..

me and him met online 1,5 years ago and the first time we met was last summer, when i finally decided to grow some *** and go visit him..we soon said that we didnt wanna be without eachother and after him visting me again we decided to just do it, move in together(we were both afraid of losing eachother..thats why we rushed into it)..

he was working as a *** and the 80h/week is pretty much common in that business IF the owner demands it.. so he had a good job back in his home country(only 50h/week), good friends and his family..to sum it up his identity was there, what we discovered later..

so he started looking for a job here and found smth(on his own)..and one thing u have to know tho, evrything we did was under so much pressure that we didnt even have time or energy to connect in the "real world" properly..me saying that i was thinking like a crazy person is because i was not only overwhelmed that my life changed by him moving to me and so much stuff changing but it was just the fact that he was around..i didnt give myself enough time to get comfortable with him..this stress and the anger that build up more and more because we didnt learn to communicate in a proper way when stuff got real made me very very helpless and sad and angry..and him seeing me in that way, when he always thought i was ok with handling stress, was way too much..in some way he was depending on me i was his family/friends and partner..he didnt know the language and he just moved from a small city to a huge one..(he was twice here and saw the nice big city as a tourist)and i failed his expectations because i was consumed by "my problems" and he didnt get the support he needed from me..

when he quit his job (i supported him to do that because it was a shitty one..) he was very disappointed it felt like he failed(for him)...and i didnt even realize..at some point i was thinking "why did he do that..it was nice having some "me" time when he was gone"..i still wasnt used to him being around and expecting someone who is super happy and chilled and in love..i was still under so much pressure, because for me it felt like i was responsible for him and how he felt every second of the day and that made me angry because it was waaay to much of a responsibility for me..

then the stuff with the paper work added up too, because eventho there was no problem for hím working here(he is an european citizen too)we still had to get some paper work done..(we were so unprepared..)

at some point i realized his change in behavior..he started "making fun" of me and not taking me seriously..and then i ask him what that was about and that was the first time he told me that he loved me but he wasnt in love anymore...well from that point on i counldnt keep it together..it put me in a very dark and sad and HELPLESS place...and then he got very sad too..it was some dark months..he kept telling me that he was missing his country and friends, he started distracting himself with gaming and social media..selfsabotage..

it was hard realizing that i disappointed my love so much and that i felt disappointed..

some weeks ago he told me that it became hard for him telling me what was going on in him("same here" i said, which was the truth)

and that when he could say stuff he felt relieved..im not there yet because i have the feeling ive done so much damage wih my sadness and the crazy person thinking..

so, now we r working on reconnecting again, making him focuse that he is here now and that we not gonna move to his coutry that soon(we would both like to live there at some point)and on him forgiving me*

*forgiving me:the past months revealed some secrets..with that i mean we told eachother stuff that we kept from eachother in the past(we wanted to be 100% honest already)..and when i heard some secrets he kept from me i reacted to them..i was sad disappointed and angry but with time i realized that he is a human too and the picture that changed when he told me all of that changed into the picture i already knew, so i guess in a way i accpeted it..but i kinda have the feeling and he also said it was very hard for him, that he is holding a grudge and is not trusting me..

at the end of the day, we talked about all of that so many times and we dont want to leave eachother we love eachother deeply still..but the spark(and with that i dont mean the honeymoon phase-i mean the awesome connection we had) isnt there ..instead there is a lot of tension and we r trying to find ways to overcome that..but i think we need some guidance...we do have moments when we r rly happy but they r sooo so rare because we have all of that on our minds and at some point it gets weird..we r forcing it a bit too...

i hope u have an advice or two..we r still very young( mid 20s-i thought u should know) but it would feel like we lost so much and didnt try hard enough if we would just stop..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 10 2016 at 15:04
Member since: 19 August 2014
So sorry about your mum's terminal illness. :-( Is that affecting your mood and thinking much as yet?

"i have the feeling u misunderstood or lets say i didnt explain well enough"

Or a bit of both? But I like seeing proof that you're 100% fair-minded, because it helps to judge the situation/dynamic (and him by contrast to you). As does the fact, I should mention, that Mr Soulmate and I are you and your bf, albeit *much* farther up that path than you two (as well as much ol-... ol-... more mature) (;-)). So I have theory AND first-hand practical knowledge on this one (uh-oh), meaning, Arrr-gu-mendt ees futile, Meessees Bondt.

But that doesn't mean this end result of both your catalogue of ignorance-based mistakes can't be fixed. However, in order to fix, one has to know what precisely needs fixing and why/how... identifying the problem and every component of it...

1. Whatever was the catalyst behind his moving to you rather than (er, automatically??) the other way around is neither here nor there, really (despite spoke volumes). It was what it was, so he should have been prepared to adjust his attitudes and habits to-suit if he were dead-set on you two living together.

2. So you met online c. Autumn of 2014 and then (er) got around to meeting, finally, for the first time about 9/10 months later... because he sat there all that time, waiting for YOU to be Tarzan and go get him, Jane? Que?

WRONG WAY ROUND. For example: in Pretty Woman, Julia Roberts did not shimmy up Richard Gere's drainpipe (art mimicking life). HE did the manly parts. So that was your first Red flag *and* my first concrete confirmation that I am not wrong about his whole attitude thus why you're not happy.

3. I get the pressure to make being together possible, and constant, absences-caused dipping in and out of the grieving process (been there, done that, obvs) but only three real, actual, countable meetings do not ready-for-cohabitation make. Too soon, not *nearly* enough of a test-drive before handing your cash over to the car dealership. Red flag no. 2. And anyway, if he'd been so afraid of losing you then why wasn't he chomping at the bit to be the typically shaker-mover party by getting off his butt and visiting *you* first? Error, Does Not Compute. You were keener/readier than he was. At that juncture, I should add.

4. Okay, he found something on his own (tick!). But he deliberately put it at risk too soon (cancel out tick). YOU DO NOT RESIGN OR PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVELY TRY TO GET FIRED BEFORE YOU HAVE THE NEXT JOB ALL SIGNED AND SEALED. He's a man, he knows that.

I get that he'd have been out of his comfort zone and experiencing home-sickness in the absence of an equality or betterment, situationally, but no-one forced him to be Mohammad coming to the mountain, did they. So he should have moved his mind as well as his body over. He sounds like he didn't, not sufficiently, that he was treating the whole situation less as a permanent, mental and physical commitment and more like a test-run. Big mistake. Don't do something like that unless you're ready to do it properly, fully. And I expect he had a LOT of pluses back home that no longer applied now he were in a new environment. But same for pluses in your country that never existed in his (six of one, half-a-dozen of the other). Like BEING WITH YOU, for instance.

5. You had basis for feeling stressed at the culture shock, so that isn't 'craziness', it's a normal reaction, cranked up by the clashing and his intermittent spitefulness, ...but all the greater for it when one does something before strictly ready. Same for him. But men are well practised at hiding their stress and insecurities, mouth-wise, and, if not 'feeling the fear but doing it anyway', tend just to act-out instead, meaning, you've got to ignore their lip noises and focus on their FEET (actions). Which is what he's been doing with the WHOOPS!-lost my job, etc.

He could probably sense you were having second thoughts, which additional insecurity wouldn't have helped his already ill-formed conviction and committed-ness. So now we know WHY he decided he'd better protect his position by staying home where he could keep a closer eye on you, don't we. It's so you couldn't wriggle away. ACTIONS!

Let's cut to the chase: He's insecure - in himself, now exacerbated. His attitude back then was, 'I'm not moving a muscle until YOU prove you want ME', forgetting that the way to make a woman want you is to work on her with YOUR enthusiasm and determination (chip-chip-chip, SWOON). Again - wrong way round, him forcing you into the male position as he had a neurotic pity-party in the female one. He lacks balls when out of his comfort zones. The man is meant to be the braver one, to swallow his fears and pride and MAKE what he wants to happen, happen. That's what being a man is all about (whilst women get their own, some say worse, crosses to bear).

When he met you he must have, perhaps, been too soon out of a relationship crash, one preceded by constant drama. Explains why he tried to cultivate the relationship from a distance behind the safety of a computer screen, AND why he waited for you to show you 100% wanted him before he was prepared to do likewise.

(As yet, I should mention, I fail to see proof of what ways I was wrong/misunderstanding/misinterpreting up there or where you were miscommunicating. So all I can assume is that I'm hard to understand in one fell swoop.)

And you weren't ready either! But you're not *supposed* to be, as I say; it's for the man to MAKE the woman ready. Woo, woo, woo, impress, impress, impress, reassure, reassure, reassure, until... 'Crikey, my knickers have fallen off and my heart leapt into your pocket, how did THAT happen?!', says the once 'take it or leave it' (or ice-queen) female. Doing these roles, IN the right order and way, is what triggers our still-primitive Romance/Bonding programmes to RUN. Subvert or foreshorten that natural script and run of tests during the Honeymoon period and your software goes doolally by whatever degree, accordingly. AS YOU NOW SEE.

A man who isn't ready to be a man and woo by positive means only, rather than negative and secret/furtive ones, is not ready for his next relationship yet. A woman who's prepared to do HIS romantic duties and initiations is herself showing symptoms of being unready, trying to force things as a method of greater control and self-protection than last time thus accepting his handy bid to be Jane.

That masculine, 'wife'-protective urge of yours (plus guilt) is why you took pity and sanctioned his job self-dismissal. Sh*tty or not, it brought home the bacon as a *veeeeeery* important source of male self-pride and self-confidence AND SELF-LIKE (thus other-like). Plus, it gives him time to think paranoiacally and pander to his fears and insecurity (et VOILA!).

Cut to the here and now: he's unhappy and disillusioned and taking it out on the only cat around to kick - you - using the cover of humour (teasing a bit too nastily) because he doesn't want to cause you to end it (ACTIONS!). That's stressing you even more and making you INADVERTENTLY take your stress out on him (and yourself) (mainly yourself and the result affecting him). You need to PAUSE the situation, which means, he goes back home for 1 month, safely reassured that he'll be coming back (return ticket BOUGHT BY YOU AS PROOF FROM YOUR SIDE). If you don't, then these outside world stresses that have already put holes in your Honeymoon bubble is going to make it go POP! (splat). Which would be stupid when, SINCE he's been with you, he's caught up AND overtaken you in terms of keenness (as it should be - man leads the dance, takes steps first, not woman), despite he can't FEEL it, consciously, because it's now lain underneath all this crud and stress, pinned down by the arms and legs. But his actions contradict his mouth (HE'S NOT FLOUNCED OFF HOME!) (WHEN HE SO EASILY COULD!)... that's all you need to know (and me).

During this Time-Out, you should both do the paperwork, him apply from there for a new job (part-time if possible, with a view and/or promise of full-time once you and he are back to harmony), AND for him to remember that the home grass was NOT NEARLY as Green ...because it didn't feature She & I. HIS FEET SAID SO WHEN HE MOVED OVER AND ARE STILL SAYING SO NOW VIA NOT MOVING BACK.

You need to miss him and he you, clear the banked-up crud from the deck, and start afresh.

Your alternative is to go to couples counselling once or twice per week (or more if you like and if you two think you're capable of keeping up). It may feel at this point like just yet another chore and time-taker to add to your already overcrowded To Do lists but at least it's one that'll ultimately clear everything up, and quickly, whereupon your relationship will run to catch back up to where it would have been 'if not for x, y, z'.

Trust me, if he were REALLY "missing his friends", then he'd be chatting online to them, not playing online games (GOTTIM!). He's just spouting nonsense to shore up his so-called case. Really, he hasn't got a CLUE, aside from a general blanket feeling, how he feels and why and what to do about it and why this, why that from you and that from him... (hence, the counsellor). So he 'teases' you to make it more your problem so that you'll want far more to fix it. (He does, however, need to cease being so pathetic and helpless *and willing to be financially carried*, and grow better attitudes, but the counselling or the break will springboard this.)

So in actual fact, you two have been trying TOO hard - AND in the wrong ways/directions, and too soon. If you don't have a Time-Out or go to counselling, nothing is going to change quickly enough in order to beat your losses of patience to the post.

Time is of the essence, book the break ("WEE HOLIDAY") or the counselling *now*.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 10 2016 at 15:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Sorry - 'whoops-lost my job *attempt*' it should have read.)

PS: could he start his own freelance biz?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 10 2016 at 15:21
Member since: 19 August 2014
PPS: forgot to say: you can help the break or counselling along majorly if in the interim you two get out of the house and have fun-fun-fun!, in order to counter the misery and negativity and remind yourselves of how much you love being together. That would be the perfect backdrop, in fact, to his (and in the process, you) then taking a wee holiday/respite or sitting down on the counsellor's armchairs.
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Feb 10 2016 at 15:43
Member since: 27 January 2016
thx again for the long responds..

oh gosh..today is not a good day..ive been thinking so much about the mood and the tention and weirdness and him kinda not being able to forgive me and being "mean"..

ok, so what do u say if i would told that the reason why he was waiting for me to come is because i mentioned it first, in the very start saying i would love to meet u (because it was kinda dangerous him coming here and discovering that he didnt like me and then he would leave-so yes, if so i wanted to be the one who leaves)

i postponed it a lot of times because i didnt have the balls and wasnt ready..

at some point he told me i did it so many times that he "gave up" and he was done "chasing"-some months later he said he would come and then i paniced and said ok i bought the ticket im coming-i wanna do this..

he is doing a german class now-btw-he said the last 2-3 days he was trying to wrap his head around rly being here(being present) and making the best out of it..the mood got better-his german class is a bit too hard but he is trying his best and putting a lot of energy in it..so thats what he is doing now..so, no job atm because he doesnt have the energy for it..

are u sure that we have to be apart now that it seems he lost his interest in me? he says he love me and i know that but he views me differently..so even the chatting feels weird..it kinda feels like he is doing it on purpose..like keeping me in a distance and not wanting to find things that we have in common(in the past we said we were almost the same person) and now he is doing that...

and im ok-ish when it comes to my mom..i dont rly have the time to think about that..

we said we needed some "fun"..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Feb 10 2016 at 15:52
Member since: 27 January 2016
ps. and the thing he said about viewing me differently is because he saw me react in a bad way..he thought i was as "strong" as he was and that in certain situation he expected me to act how i told him i would(while we were chatting) but i couldnt..u know i was/am in such a strange place that i cant be myself..when he tells me stuff sometimes i dont care about it often..i have so many problems in my head..and thats what he is experiencing..
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 11 2016 at 13:43
Member since: 19 August 2014
(I'm an exceptionally fast typist so don't worry about length.)

In any long-haul project, you *will* have good days and bad days. Because all that's gone on has made you feel ambiguous about the relationship. Ignore that. Like I said, feelings get swamped by negative ones and can't be felt properly or consistently.

"ok, so what do u say if i would told that the reason why he was waiting for me to come is because i mentioned it first, in the very start saying i would love to meet u (because it was kinda dangerous him coming here and discovering that he didnt like me and then he would leave-so yes, if so i wanted to be the one who leaves)

i postponed it a lot of times because i didnt have the balls and wasnt ready..

at some point he told me i did it so many times that he "gave up" and he was done "chasing"-some months later he said he would come and then i paniced and said ok i bought the ticket im coming-i wanna do this.."

I don't care if you mentioned it first, your over-caution there just proves my point about you, this relationship round, having tried to take the male steering wheel. And his having let you. The crux point is that he could have argued with you, and could have made up for that 'drainpipe shimmying' opportunity loss by visiting your place a lot more frequently following your first visit. Where there's a will (to be an impressively strong-willed (pushy) and persuasive male as part of the wooing dance), there's a way. Instead, his first reaction after having suffered this delay was to resort to a subtle threat to the relationship, as if to suggest that his idea of chasing and wooing is to sit impatiently, waiting for you to do the leg-work, apart from his just wiggling his fingers over his keyboard.

That is not bravely and desirously wooing and chasing. So how could he have been 'done with it'? Was he sending you flower deliveries, cards, gifts during this whole keyboard sonata? NO. Because if he had, that might have made you feel a lot more confident via having been inspired by his own confidence.

And if you're going to talk to me about 'danger' then I would have said it were FAR more dangerous for you to have been on your own in a strange country for the first ever meet-up than safely in your own apartment, town and country, with your neighbours all around and your own Police service and emergency phone number at the ready.

The gentleman comes to the lady first, and counters her hesitancy on that score with increased verbal reassurances and promises and wooing. He can't expect her to act hot if he's not wooed her to Hot first (duh?). Or is he happy to put a pan of milk onto the lowest setting on the hob, rather than highest, and wait needlessly longer for it to reach the boil?

But he KNOWS all this, it's in his base programme. He had a blockade - "I'm not putting myself all-out, all guns blazing THIS time round because I did that with "her" [ex] and look what happened!". His actions/lack of actions back then make it as clear as the nose on his face, PARTICULARLY as I have Mr S to draw comparisons with. I literally couldn't bloody STOP him from coming here the VERY minute he could (we met in Spain and he still had another 2 weeks to go after I returned home). He didn't say, CAN I come, he said, 'I coming to see you, I gats to see you, bebe [he's French], I miss you so much..', etc., with his mouse over the BOOK button on Sleazyjet. He had to take extra shifts at work to ensure he not only had the disposal funds for the plane ticket and wooing money, but in order to have time off for the visits. And then he played Mountain to Mohammad *the second time* as well. My visit was the third. And they all happened in pretty quick succession of each other. Visits happened in the Sept (him), Oct (him), Nov (me), Dec (him), Jan (him), Feb/Mar (him), April (me), April again (me), May (him), June (me), July - the entire month (him),... We ended up with only ever a fortnight gap between visits. In between, and aside from text and email, he phoned me (HE) twice to thrice times per day. He was even readier than me (as it should be). I had to tell him to ease *off* a bit (because he was going too hard and fast for me to be capable of keeping up with my monitoring of his actions and behaviour, in terms of what they stood for, and ticking off all the check-boxes in my head)! But I'd rather have to ask for less or take what I need and disregard the rest than feel deprived by woefully too little.

That, missus, is how it goes when two people are ready, *especially* the main mover-shaker of the piece. And you can TELL when the pushing and rushing isn't player-commitmentphobe behaviour - because there are too many meaningfully meaty actions with distinct consequences to back the mouth and surface actions up.

As Billy Crystal/Harry said in Harry Met Sally when Meg Ryan/Sally demands to know why he's turned up at the NYE party uninvited, 'I came here tonight because when you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.”, which means, if the woman isn't at the same page as you, you damn well woo harder, woo harder - and in the right, sincere and convincing ways - until she damn well is.

Back when you said, Okay-okay I'm coming!, that was his cue to say, Nope, too late, I'M coming! You obviously just don't feel confident at the idea of travelling here, whereas I do ("rarrr!").

You weren't supposed to be the ready one, the pushy one, the one that dictated the schedule and pace. He was. So he was not sufficiently ready, not sufficiently recovered from the event/trauma of his ex relationship or whatever else broke the bones in his heart and ego, hence acting like the woman of the piece - sitting back and waiting to RECEIVE. The man gives-gives-gives, the woman encourages/thanks/secretly marks out of 10, he gives more, she, now convinced he wants her and only her, starts to reciprocate (the amount befitting a lady). The man leads the dance, steps first, steers the lady around the floor...

He has baggage, I can tell. And so do you.

BUT... I do think you're taking his baggage noises and movements TOO seriously. Because look at what his feet are now doing, despite his adaptation/struggling noises: learning a new skill to look good on his CV. If he wanted to learn German to take back with him then he'd surely go back first and learn it there (duh?). He's not going anywhere, he's definitely determined, now, to stay put with you. Because that *is* manly-proactive behaviour. In actual fact, this stressy period was probably nothing more than the typical Power Struggle phase, with all that tension and bickering designed, consciously and/or otherwise, to give you a really intense, 2nd phase test-drive and see how you handled it, but cranked up a bit overly far and hard for you to take BECAUSE HE'S HAD NOTHING ELSE TO DO, NO OTHER MENTAL STIMULATION/CHALLENGE.

What YOU'RE feeling right now and lately, is the aftermath... now that you can relax and survey. Delayed reaction.

******

Well anyway... If he's just committed to a language class then, no, it's not convenient to have a break. And you may not need the counselling, either.

My point for telling you how he failed to properly step up back then is because it aligns with how he blames you for everything - to you, I mean.. different story in his head, so say his main actions. (Typical bloke with too much pride.) Because YOU need to stop blaming yourself because holding the steering wheel was never your responsibility in the first place. It was his... men want it that way, insist on it being that way - buck stops with them. He was the one 'picked' a woman who was less raring to go than him... Clearly, despite not taking the Situation Abnormal of his own post-break-up recovery into account, he insists on things being challenging... His pick, his decisions, his wooing car, his route choice - Berbom. If he'd been fit to do everything more impressively, we'd not be having this conversation. Instead you'd be telling me, 'I wasn't even SURE, kept trying to put the visit off...but he INSISTED, took control and came here instead (and insisted on staying at a B&B if it would make me feel better/safer)... there was just no arguing with him, Soulmate... But although I felt out of control, he did make me feel safe, and BOY does that guy know how to really go for something when he's sure he absolutely, completely and utterly wants it!... turned me on a little bit, that, truth be told, tee-hee...'.

So he can't (couldn't) blame you. He can blame BOTH of you - because your responses to whatever else correct he was doing could have inspired him to repeat and increase and tend to whatever 'holes'. But not just you.

*******

But just you make sure he DOES get a job, rather than stays home under cover of taking ANOTHER home study course and THIS excuse and THAT excuse. Not saying he will, just advising you to stay vigilant on that score. Because a man CAN get lazy, if allowed, and then get stuck in the habit of lazy (AND start to take any prolonged favours as his right). That's where the woman comes in. So you need to discuss and agree an outside deadline of BY WHEN, AT THE LATEST he'll take that CV and get himself another job. Part-time if you as financier can afford it and don't MIND affording it, just for the time being...because, yes, you did and could still benefit from greater time to bond and learn about each other more solidly, without the normal pressures and with them (but not just job pressure) - he was right about that part; you two never had the IN-PERSON Honeymoon, that's what the first year or two together should have been *as* he showed WILLINGNESS to be the bread-earner (just to prove he can if/whenever he needs to, like if you two marry and have kids).

In the meantime, as I imply, you need to not take his mere 'don't think I'm IN-love with you' noises (that are contradicted wholly with his present actions) with a pinch of salt. Too many men don't realise that love doesn't *disappear* just because of a run of clashes, just gets shoved to the back of the queue for a while, and so they do come out with this tripe (and yes, it IS very devastating). It's just male-style batting back and trying to put you back onto your keen little toes when they sense you're 'backing off' or about to choose to opt out of the hard slog phase altogether for the sake of an easier life. Most likely, once you yourself start to show you feel better/safer to get back into it all, that's when he'll recommence being more openly honest about how fruit-loopy over you he still is.

*******

But here's the problem, still, for you: not enough Me Time. So you have a choice: you either explain you need it and take it (days out by yourself or where he goes out) OR you do what I had to do, which is, realise there's no 'having it both ways' - being in a relationship yet still benefiting from periods of singledom. It's all or nothing. And when you DO choose All, that's when you finally can ADAPT to All...and then start enjoying it, whereby, because he feels like a PART of you now, you and he together *is* "Me Time", and you feel "peopled out" by everyone else, but not him... to the point where, if you then get given Me Time, IT FEELS WRONG. That's allowing yourself to adapt for ya. Which is what you've been fighting and struggling with, what you're calling 'a strange place'.

"and im ok-ish when it comes to my mom..i dont rly have the time to think about that."

Oh yeah? That's what YOU think. The 'backroom gals' in your head are quite possibly thinking about nothing else! So you have to take that one into account in terms of why you feel quite this bad and strange.

*******

But anyway, welcome to 'I Don't Do Things In Halves!'-ville. Long-distance relationships are *waaaaayyyyy* harder than any other. As you now know. BUT!... and trust me on this - once you get through this natural phase cranked up to suit the size of this project - so are the giant perks.

Next time he says anything about 'having thought you were stronger', do yourself a favour and *stop* trying to present yourself as superwoman, and just say, 'You/this relationship is by its LD nature of the high-maintenance variety, on top of which or perhaps more to the point - MY MUM'S DYINGGG-AH! WHAT DO YOU EXPECT-AH!'. ('AH' bit optional, LOL)

I mean, in spite of your attempts to pretend you're Superwoman or, perhaps, inability to deal with it on any conscious level (yet), has that incredibly significant and affecting fact not even occurred to him yet? I'll answer that for you, shall I? - NAH. Can't relate to it, can he. [rolls eyes]

Anyway, you feeling a bit better yet?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Feb 11 2016 at 15:33
Member since: 27 January 2016
ever time i see u answered makes me really glad..in the past i felt like i could analyze stuff with him, and i could, but well we both know how the situation is now, so what i wanted to say is thank u for taking the time..u r helping me seeing some things more clearly..

its easier starting from the bottom:

so, i am feeling better a bit because i am getting more and more AND i kinda got out of the "im so helpless-everything is falling a part and the love of my life is rejecting me without any reason-and he is so great and im the one who fucked up"

i did wanna tell u about yesterday..

ok lets start with me telling him on sunday that ive had it with the disrepect(mean teasing)and i got really pissed(because he did it again and it made me soo so angry), later that day we had a fight, where i said stuff like "i realized that i kinda forgave u for the "secrets/mistakes" we told eachother and moved past it (or i really started seeing that he is a human too and i understood his actions)but u didnt" he is holding a grudge but i think that was mentioned already..well after that we were silent and didnt talk, then he looked at me i looked at him, call me naive but i thought he "got it" and then we hugged and kissed etc..felt kinda a bit reconnected and then it got a bit "weird", like "the atmosphere was a bit forced" but why????strange...

good, then the next day he wanted to talk to a friend from back home so they did..but i got very angry because 1.) before that he told me that he talked to someone and when he got asked if we r moving back to his country he said "yeah maybe in half a year" (WHAT???) but i didnt say anything there yet and 2.) it got really late and i wanted to sleep but he wanted to take his friend via video chat and show him the flat...(excuse me?i kind of have to get out of the bed very early and i have someone at home who doesnt have to sleep until 2 if he doenst want to and 3.) his friend started telling him that when he comes back he has a job for him...so yeah i got angry and he started feeling it

we got in a fight and i told him that 1.) it was kinda of "betrayal" to me telling ppl about a date i never knew existed(he said it wasnt ment like that, he just said " im not sure , maybe 6 months or im gonna start a job here")and being excited when someone is saying "i could get u a job"-with *excited* i ment interested not overexcited..2.) i got mad because he could talk to his friend for over half an hour but when i talk to him trying to solve things, trying to analyze(which we used to be able to do)he gets all wired up and i can see how he isnt paying attention and that makes me angry..

but somehow i explained it and he said "i understand that u thought i set a date and that that pressured u and so on but it was a misunderstanding"-it felt good being able to say something and it not escalating..but when i think about it, it wasnt sincere, he just didnt want drama...

so YESTERDAY:

i got up and it felt weird..i was in a sad mood..i went to work feeling sad..i was waiting for him to write me when he got up "..needy bitch"

at some point he asked me whats wrong while i was at work (via chat) i said i had a confusing morning and the fact that after we made up yesterday we "bitched" again just before sleep so that was kind of worring me..and making me sad in a way and then i cant remember what happened we got in a fight again at the tinme where he just started gaming with the same friend he talk to yesterday so he said "wtf is wrong with u , your timing is great, i was just gaming with my friend and again u have to start smth" i didnt know that he was he said it after we were already in a discussion..

same night:

i got home from work very late, we started talking again and got into a fight..

what i can tell u from that is that he said some really disrespectful and immature things because i found his week spot and i continued because ive had had it..he started being even more disrespectful and demining..and said that i couldnt handle my life withouht my therapist (yeah btw im in therapy, started going there when i was about to move out but couldnt because i had some anxieties-i got rid of them but fell in love with analyzing my mind and the thought of becoming a superdooper open minded person)

so yeah..i got so mad that i switched his pc out..he got mad and called me a fucking idiot(first time)

to be continued..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Feb 11 2016 at 16:09
Member since: 27 January 2016
.. I didnt speak a word with him After that. I Went to bed couldnt Really sleep but at some Point Fell asleep..when i was at work i received a msg" i am sorry..u was rly immature and disrespectful, thats Not how i meant it, it just got out of Hand"

I said ok i cant rly say anything right now and that was it..

Well me eig superwoman helps in the Way that im Not needy and Crying all the time but let Not forget that "i an needy now" because when he is on the phone or Playing with a friend i "need" attention-his words..No i dont im glad that he is having fun i just wanna be able to feel him being sincere with me and him Being able to actually be in the Moment with me..

So im Not at the Point where i feel us Time equals me Time? No, for sure.. I would Love to get there.. I will have to take the me Time then..but we do have a Trust problem atm so im going to think about how to do it..

"In the meantime, as I imply, you need to not take his mere 'don't think I'm IN-love with you' noises (that are contradicted wholly with his present actions) with a pinch of salt." Could u explain this for me again?

"My point for telling you how he failed to properly step up back then is because it aligns with how he blames you for everything - to you, I mean.. different story in his head, so say his main actions. (Typical bloke with too much pride.)"-Not sure what u mean with that either-i mean yes it wasnt my Place but u lost me there (a lot if te stuff i have to translate because my vocabulary isnt there yet)

My Last question: How can i activate him again? Or how is that going to Happen?for me it seems like it gotten better because he decides he is Gonna leave the pitty Party (a bit) and Start exepting the fact that he is here now but we r Not there yet..i want is to be equals again.. He said he saw smth very Special in me.. How can we reconnect?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 11 2016 at 19:33
Member since: 19 August 2014
It's called 'Can't see the wood for the trees'. When you're stressed/under sense of threat, your lizard brain thinks DANGER! - URGENT ACTION REQUIRED! and takes over, by whatever extent commensurate with danger level, competing against or shutting down the related 'human' brain cylindry so that you, the thinking person, can't interfere with its vital job of deciding whether to Fight, Freeze (play dead) or Fight *without* wasting time thinking. It's not built for sophisticated thought meant for dealing with complicated emotional matters, no matter that they still trigger the fight/flight response. HENCE WHY YOU NEED FRIENDS, THERAPISTS OR FORUMS (ta-daa).

You could see the woods once because, back then you weren't attached enough to him, plain and simple. But now you are. Now you DO feel your future happiness lays in his hands.

Realising you're NOT Superwoman/man and that 'no man is an island' is a rite of passage into true adult maturity. And not a lot of people know that. They learn, though. Sooner or later when life starts getting tougher and tougher as their available energy lowers and lowers.

You don't have to thank me (especially as you're patently a 'good egg'), it's a stock social and moral responsibility to counter negative 'Mexican waves' amongst the human sea with positive waves... but thanks (for thanking me) anyway. :-)

****

Nah, it's not falling apart, don't be daft. It could just be much less of a headache - for both of you. But learn this lesson not to pay attention only to his mouth in future, and more to his actions (which is what I mean by 'take it with a pinch of salt', i.e. don't believe he means it). Some blokes, especially when upset, talk complete, nasty b*llocks, without thought for consequences. He's obviously a Venter ("I hhhhhhate you!...... [days later] (whoops, sh*t)"). They're also very good at dual standards and hypocrisy. (Did you know that male babies, toddlers and young kids, cry and fuss an awful lot louder and longer than their female counterparts? Ask any kindergarten teacher. Nuff said at which gender is *truly* the over-emotional one. ;-) ...which is why they prefer to keep it all inside behind the stiff upper lip.) Anyway, he's probably more holding a grudge at *the situation* but he can't very well tell the *situation* he 'hhaates' it, can he. You're all he's got.

"before that he told me that he talked to someone and when he got asked if we r moving back to his country he said "yeah maybe in half a year" (WHAT???)"

Do you REALLY think that if that were true he'd have told you and thereby risked you yelling, 'IN THAT CASE, LEAVE *NOW*'? Course not. It's rot. He's just trying to bat back *and* furtively test how much you're still into him (she who isn't stays calm and deadpan-faced). That's called a Button Push, means he doesn't have to prostrate himself by asking if you still love him nor risk hearing an outright "No". He's just manipulating reassurances and information out of you. And why on earth would someone intending to leave that life, that flat, want to show a friend around.

If anything, it sounds like it's THE FRIEND who wants him back, or just himself took your bf's mere venting seriously, hence going to that level of trouble. So in action-speak, that showing him around was your boyfriend saying, Thanks but no-thanks, THIS is where I live. Anyway, you don't know that the friend said anything of the sort, you only know what Mr Venty Bat-Back-er *told you* (for effect).

You've got to count to 10 and think, not automatically believe him and react to it. ESPECIALLY whatever gets said during or after an argument/clash and/or where the problem can't be instantly sorted.

Listen, he can talk calmly and extensibly to his friend because his friend doesn't hold his entire happiness in his hands, does he. You do.

That above behaviour tells me he thought he was a bit too close to getting dumped by you and [1] had to quickly "treat you mean to keep you keen" as well as do the "don't care anyway" nonsense to save face if you did. He does sound quite immature, though, although, to be fair, so is everyone when however much in Lizard mode.

I know it's hard and takes practise but - don't get mad. Don't say a thing. Just walk off and get engrossed with something/someone else for hours. If he gets no squeaks and squeals and, worse, ignored/neglected, he'll soon stop (because it worse than doesn't get him anywhere). Basically, if you yell back at a roaring gorilla then all you're doing is inviting him to start rattling the bars of his cage and hurling fistful's of excrement *even harder*. Me, when Mr S ever got like that, I used to say, 'I'm going for a poo because that's more interesting than listening to your tantrumy little boy drivel, plus smells nicer'. Be sarcastic, take the mickey... just don't waste your time and energy getting upset because otherwise you're playing into his reassuring-answer-seeking-sans-show-of-vulnerability hands.

Basically, lately what's happening is that he's tipping YOU into lizard/gorilla mode... hence it then needlessly blows up into an actual fight. Just let him have his tantrum and don't get involved or take any of it to-heart. You can't BOTH be gorillas, won't work.

Another thing you could say is, I'm not "stating", I'm sorting, bringing up from under the table, what already existed. Either you want to help remove this blockade from our path to Happy Ever After-ville or you don't. If now's not a good time to talk, let's book a time. Oh, and seeing a therapist *is* "handling your life". It's those that need one but don't see one that "aren't handling it".

He called you an effing idiot, eh? Well, you aren't the first and certainly won't be the last woman to hear a bloke up his argumentative ante in that way in order to get a more forceful rise out of you. For example, Mr S once in our early days (same power struggle period) tried psychopath...bicz...user... I can't even *remember* half the names (- they were because he thought I was about to tell him I was done). Either walk away, telling him you'll talk once he's prepared to be adult about it, or say something to the effect of, 'But you PICKED an effing idiot, so what does that make you?' and then add, 'Stop being so childish'. Or try, 'Stop acting like an hysterical woman' (LOL, that ought to do it).

Know what he sounds, though, overall, under all this typical detail? BORED. Course. He's not going out to work, has got excess energy. But, in a warped way, we at least can see how much you/this means to him, because a bloke wouldn't bother getting untoward and in a lather like that if he no longer cared or knew he were even GEARING UP to end the relationship. So you're safe. Just stuck in this ongoing, phase-related negative climate.

And, hey! *You* get *the word* Sorry. 90% of women don't! They just get sorry done in actions, like a gesture or favour. So kudos to him for that, he's not all bad or immature, then, is he. ;-)

How's your sex-life?

***********

No, you won't be at "I am him and he is me and vice versa" stage YET. Too early. That comes AFTER this phase.

No, you don't have a trust problem. If you two didn't trust each other, NO WAY would you dare act that way with each other! This is, I promise you, all quite NORMAL. It's just not the sort of thing people like to admit and talk about outside of closed doors. Except on forums, of course. We see this particular dynamic and 'screenplay' an awful lot on here. Standard stuff, even the immature, snarky, name-calling talk and yelling.

**********

"My Last question: How can i activate him again? Or how is that going to Happen?for me it seems like it gotten better because he decides he is Gonna leave the pitty Party (a bit) and Start exepting the fact that he is here now but we r Not there yet..i want is to be equals again.. He said he saw smth very Special in me.. How can we reconnect?"

How's your sex-life? (;-))

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Feb 15 2016 at 16:07
Member since: 27 January 2016
sry for the late response, a lot has been going on the past days,

i wanted to ask u tho 1. is there a way of deleting the thread? and 2. is there a way not doing it that publicly?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 17 2016 at 02:22
Member since: 19 August 2014
No, there's no deleting it and no way for me to do it off-board, sorry. Why? And what's been going on - do you mean re he and you?
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Feb 28 2016 at 09:25
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hey Soulmate..the reason i wasnt around is because After the Fight i told u about everything changed for 2 weeks..

(thats why i reactivate my Account and didnt reply or lets say thats why i asked if we could do it Not That Public..its because i was scared he would find out that and what i Posted here and would flip..Not because he is ignorant but more because we recently had a Fight because i was Seeking some advice from a male co worker an he read the sms and saw a Screenshot i made too..well he didnt like that at all..)

So however but to the"what changed After the Fight":

The Day After the fight i Went to work..he apologized like i already told u i didnt say much just that i dont have that much to say and After work i Went to Therapy.. After Therapy hei wrote me asking how in Gonna get home (now i know it was because he was scared becaus he thought i would sleep at my moms and wanted to make sure wasnt) i told him im Gonna be home at ** and he Picked me up from station all Teary in his eyes.. I was Keeping my cool (in the "in need a fkn apology"-Mode) he said he Ws sorry and for the next two weeks he was back..

What i mean is the distance he created and whats our biggest Problem was gone! I could immediatly feel it.he started talking (sincerely) about Progress and how he is Gonna work on the thought that this is his home(my city) and how he loved me and that he Knows that he doesnt need anyone Else then me (u remember me saying him missing his friends, honesickness etc)

Well that Went on for some days (i started thinking tho that something was rly missing for me and that was the "Team feeling", the emotional clossness..u know what i mean.. And i told him.. He said he Understood and there is nothing More he wants then the" Team feeling")

Thinking about it now i can see how semi-pushy i was how and it was a but too much me getting all scared and sad that we didnt have that yet..

Another Day he Went to the bathroom and was there for some Time and all of a sudden my mind goes to my phone and i wasnt Even properly looking for it i just assumed he took and nie he is Gonna discover smth he doesnt like, so i go to the bathroom door and Start asking him in a sweet Way "honey, what r u doing?" He knew that something was up and he got suspiciou(he didnt Even have my phone but i was scared something is Gonna Ruin the Progress he/we made) After me explaining that there isnt anything imhiding from him (exept the Forum Which i know he was ok with ,now(!)) i Felt his distance coming back.. It overwhelmed me immidiatly because i thought here we go again and i cant fkn do it over..feeling unloved and all of that.. Tat was the First Time in that period of "No distance" that he got distant again and i started Crying and Packed my stuff and told him i need to go to my mom now and we can see eachother tomorrow.. I Went to the tram Station and After some Minuten he fallowed, we Went back and the next Day it was ok again..

Through all that time he expressed his concern about me Not innitiating Sex and how he feels Bad having it sometimes because i seems like im Not into it and that he wants it More spontaniously and saying that its Gonna bring us somuch closer and i was sayin but i need this and i need that.." I need the closeness with him" and "we rushed into having Sex before we Even could get zhere" "i overstepping my boundaries and im working on that now" i cant rly Tell u if that r some excuses or if there rly is some work Both of is has to do...and this answeres your question the Sex is Amazone but i am so Stressed and i dont feel that comfortable with myself so i kinda forget about the "Sex Part" and want the Rest to work First...

Ok and then the final day( thedistance came back permanantly) we were talking about some stuff and i and my paranoid mind started talking about some Fights and i asked him what was it that u said u would Neve Tell me (i see how i was pressuring him) and After some Time he told me that he was expirementing with another Boy when he was very Young...i know it shouldnt have fkd with my mind that much but it did i got scared paranoid started thinking about all the Situation s "he Proved he was confused about his Sexuality" in that Moment i wanted him to Tell me and convince me in a "proper way" that he wasnt and that i was being Crazy but he didnt.. (Now i know that Guy is so fkn overwhelmed and i was panicing over nothing..)

So now dear Soulmate im out of ideas or a bit helpless again.. The distance is back and he is homesick again(yeah i know homesick equals Not connected to me therefore i guess he feels Not good about being in here at all).. I dont know how to behav it just Makes me strange around him and sad(!)..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Feb 29 2016 at 18:24
Member since: 19 August 2014
Even IF he could work out it were you (doubtful), he can't "flip". Because his actions - refusing to discuss and answer questions to *your* satisfaction - are what cause the RE-action of your needing a stand-in 'interrogate-ee'. Bed and lie on it. So his solution on that score is obvious, isn't it.

Liking how you spotted the truer meaning in his 'what time will you be home' question. Yes, *will* you be home at all, is what he was trying to gauge.

What's been happening is simple: he gets emotionally roused, eventually thinks it through (sort-of), calms down... but you're not ready (course not - he started first thus yards ahead of you). And that lack of synchronicity gets him all frustrated (duh - try patience and understanding) (if you're reading ;-)) which reignites the original over-arousal aaaaand you're back in the insufficiently cleared-up argument(s). Particularly with your (obviously) crap acting at sounding just interested but innocent (why didn't you just say, 'Did I leave my phone in there?'?).

You're a slower thinker only because you have greater depths (valleys and hillocks) to traverse, i.e. more thorough, whereas his terrain from Event A to Resolution Z is fairly flat. But the tortoise won the race. He's a rusher and skimper, just like the hare. Panic, probably, and paranoia that he, even by his own secret admission, could *warrant* replacement by "a better model". Because if he'd thought things had truly been resolved then why immediately jump back to negative and suspicious conclusions again (over you being concerned about where your phone was)?

You're both DESPERATE for the definitive reason for this/that/this but are looking at the wrong suspect(s).

You can tell him til you're Blue in the face that it's just someone to seek advice from but with the climate the way it's been of late, he'd have needed more time than that to feel safe with you again and trust that what you then said were true. Despite that's the result of his trying to rush you both through the mental Aftermaths thinking process, you can still understand why he was so ready to jump at shadows, can't you. Perhaps the lesson to learn, if or whenever practicable, is to stick from now on to confiding in women or people from 'virtual' life?

But, anyway, his jumping triggered you off all over again. *sigh*

Damn right I know what you mean by team feeling, I bang on about little else on here.

So here's where you're both at, the pair of you:

You initiate (thus prove you love me and want us).

No, you clear the deck first.

No, you initiate and THEN I'll be able to clear the deck!

I CAN'T initiate whilst the deck's not clear!

Oh yes you can, NANA. Get slightly drunk if you have to, but do it. Push all feelings and resentments aside and RE-CONNECT. And if you think that's unfair or biased then think again as you think about those Russian female spies and how suddenly overly compliant and cooperative their male counterparts would become once sat upright in bed, smoking their ciggies with a gormless grin on their face. Yadder-yadder-yadder, spill-spill-spill... *That* is how to short-cuttingly reinstate the team spirit, OHHHH YES!

You can be The Clever One, can't you. ;-)

In the context of two people who are fruit-loopy, sex is not "sex". It's love-making. Think about that male-given name: love. MAKING. Need I say more?

You won't win - either of you - against banked-up, past its use-by-date testosterone infiltrating his mind and the proceedings (and your own mind). For most men, the act of love-making is their primary source of reassurance AND RELAXATION, followed by wanting to please.

So drug the f*cker. LOL Get every single one of his 'state secrets' finally on the table. Sex As A Weapon *for the power of GOOD* - everyone's!

(Why do you think I kept asking you how your sex-life was, eh? For the fun and pervy-ness of it?)

...and THEN is when you can finally finish - PROPERLY - tying up all those past argument thread ends that tend to stick around in your mind and unsettle you, and clearing from the deck all that resentment and negativity in his as renders him so damn uncooperative and combative.

At least try it to facilitate eliminating it from the enquiry or not, so to speak?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Feb 29 2016 at 21:48
Member since: 27 January 2016
U r right..i am able to innitiate,that isnt the Problem its more the "feeling like doing IT" dont know why but my insecurities r making me think and Imagine a lot but Not Act on it..i was thinking maybe i need to get rid of the stress of him being Around or lets say the permanent "inner stress" im experiencing(insecurities,restlessness) and then im Gonna actually feel the Lust More..

Dont misunderstand me.. I love that Guy and his Fantasien and Mine Match rly good..but yeah as i said..me and Sex is a Topic for itself..i feel Bad that i wasnt able to live up to my words(the Time we were just chatting online;i told him what i wanted, liked etc)but when we met i Felt i had to prove myself and After 2 hours i arrived in his City we did it (i guess just to get it over with and as i said to prove smth..)

I can exactly see wht u r Taking about, us being it this vicious cicle: i need that so i can be like that and vice versa..and i also see that i am the One who has to break it or lets say give in..dont know how "healthy" it is for my Psyche just making myself do IT without the Lust..but i did Start innitiating yesterday.. I mean i got what u told me..but the doing something eventhough i dir feel like it is concerning me a bit.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 1 2016 at 15:53
Member since: 19 August 2014
If when it comes to it you really don't feel you can do this to break this mutually negative and suspicious cycle, even with the help of a bit of alcohol (repeat BIT - just tiddly enough via, say, 2 glasses of wine, just as a one-off rut-breaker and enlightenment aid) then, don't. It's just a suggestion for a springboarding tactic I know from personal and second-hand experience can work beautifully on both of you, not just him, as if having waved a magic wand. It's a short-cut/crap-cutter of the bona fide and healthy variety rather than a 'sweep it under the rug' avoidance or cheating mechanism.

What sorts of negative thoughts/imaginings are you referring to? That he's using you? That he still secretly intends to jump ship? Nah! But you won't truly believe that for yourself unless and until you do wave that wand [scuse pun]. And what over-enthusiastic posturing are we talking about that you couldn't, when it came to it, 'live up to'? And does that even matter, considering getting carried away and waxing sexually over-lyrically, courtesy of the safety and 'removal' of emails and the like, is something that too many people who start a relationship online tend to do? I mean, did he actually *complain* that you spent X months boasting about how (metaphorically speaking) you like to swing from the chandeliers when it turned out you in fact suffer from Vertigo? Surely there were hints, suggestions, boasts and promises on his part that he too failed to live up to? Surely he took it all with a pinch of salt at the time, as in, I'll believe it when I see it?

Just to get it over with? Surely by that overdue point you two were utterly gagging? Or are you saying that the minute you came face-to-face for the first time it were as if you two were totally separate people from the ones who'd been mailing back and forth for so long?

Back to the now... It's not about 'you having to be the one to', it's about *it* having to be the *thing* to... putting the horse before the cart so that you both cease travelling (or unravelling) backwards even *if* meantime you were both labouring to clear the causes for psychological-emotional detritus. Meanwhile, as I say, the frustration is still being allowed to grow, meaning it'd be like sweeping the path before it'd even stopped snowing. You need to stop the snow....treat the root 'disease' of for too long not having connected in the bedroom as results in such incredible frustration as spills over into every other room of the house - even if you yourselves can't actually feel it or believe it factors - and reigniting that team spirit mentality.

Trust me on this, if you two genuinely are in-love and have always valued that physical side as much as the cerebral then... two minutes in and I doubt you'll think a *thing* until you're sat back up with those very smug grins, both saying, 'Tsk... have we been behaving like complete idiots lately or what!' and having *another* argument, but this time an amusing one, that goes, 'No, it was mostly my fault, not yours'.

...which (being idiots) you have. Simply because you're both using your ears over your eyes, not watching what the "feet" say.

As I've pointed out, according to his feet, you're perfectly safe.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 1 2016 at 17:41
Member since: 27 January 2016
When u say "Breaking the ice" with alcohol, do u mean the Sex?

I think that i wrote it down the wrong Way, what i meant was i consider myself a very sexual and Open minded Person but im being Held back from my insecurities i guess..Not sure if thats what u meant..

I can see that he is frustrated about the Sex and that he wanted me that badly when we were apart..i did feel it occasionally too but i guess i ignored that side of me..i was just very then (were we had the Connection i wanted) and now (because the Connection is missing) on having that tram Spirit First and AFTER that the sexual Connection follows..seems like i have to Rethink that tactic..

And here my question again: did u mean drinking a bit(which i dont have a problem with AT ALL) in Order to get exited and horny?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 2 2016 at 10:59
Member since: 27 January 2016
Yesterday i was at my therapists and i figured out that i was more or Less doing "couples Therapy" on my own the Last months trying to figure him out..

I do have another question regarding him(eventhough u dont know him..)

I Kind of realized that when i First came to his Country and we met for the First Time the physical Part overwhelmed me(u already know that)..i have the feeling that its because the Connection we had online wasnt there..i think i havent Felt it from him..now im Kind of scared that something is blocking him(ok, im Not that scared and i know that something is blocking him for sure,but i want him and i guess thats scary..i want it back..the Connection..)

Back to now: his mind is fucking with him Big time! He Has Troubles trusting and forgiving, he is scared of Losing me like i am too ofc... A lot of the Times he finds excuses(he already admitted that it actually is excuses) that he is homesick,he misses his friends, he doesnt like it here..Since he came here and gave up a lot of responsibility he is so negativ and has No Stamina at all.. He started Therapy After he Quit his Job..but after 5-6 Times "it was too much" ( i fucking cant hear that sentence anymore)

He Needs that Therapy badly..he Needs some guidance(One of the Things he liked about me was that i was so Invested and Interested in the mind and he loved the idea doing a Therapy here because its cheaper..)but then he started finding excused again "the tharapist is shit" and AGAIN "its too much" i mean ok if u dont like the therapist there is always the possibility to Switch to someone Else but then like i said it was already too much for him..

Everytime i think about myself and how i feel about it all and what i need it Ends up with the thought how we met and that i Kind of think he didnt allow the Connection we had to continue...

So tell me how do i get him to do that fucking Therapy he rly wanted to do in the First place..and how to get to the Place where we were online (r u sure its sex? I have the feeling its some old resentment/fear that is Playing a Big role in it...)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 2 2016 at 22:35
Member since: 27 January 2016
so..here i am having the need to write again cause im MAD/sad/confused...

today i remembered, after reading some of the other threads, how u told me that its a lot about my bf wanting in some way to test me ( i hope i understood it correctly) like him trying to see where my limit is and thats ( i guess) why he is behaving like an ass..

its so annoying and disturbing tho..his behaviour that is either its:

a) he is totally sad and "homesick" and "everything is so much"(like i said F*CKing hate this sentence and cannot hear it anymore..), "living here is too much" and "german class is such a defeat somethimes"..and overthinking so much..

or

b) being over the top fake and hiding it in over-doing..like lets say him being fakly(hope u can say that) nice..

and thats not something that is happening sometimes..its the whole time like that...

im not sure how i should behave..he is testing my limits and i have the feeling like im not passing this tests..

i either get sad and cry(which he suffers from the next days because it was too much for him once again and now he has to recover) or i get mad and then he is says occasionally " yeah, sometimes i think about the moods between us"..r u freaking kidding me..he is thinking about the moods? he is f*cking causing them...

and i heard it before that i have to get rid of the resentment..but seriously how? he is pressing the right buttons if he is trying to achieve me getting pissed as f*ck and after that sad ofc..what else..

living with someone like that at the moment makes it so much harder wanting to have sex..him coming to me and making naughty comments and thinking "yeah i could have sex, so im just gonna approach" like who the hell do u think u r..not doing shit for this relationship ( in my opinion atleast) and then being all don-ish and then making me feel bad because "once again, i dont want to have sex, how typical" aaand im the bad guy again..

today i also mentioned therapy again and he made me sound like "the typical complaining gf" infact he didnt make me look like it he said it (with passive agressive humor)

saying "u want this and this and that for me to do,i kinda like my daily routin atm and dont need to do more, im slowly getting used to being here blablabla"..his daily routine btw is sleeping long getting up at 10 going to class for 3 hours and then coming home and playing pc games..then i come home at 5,6 or 7 we eat and then he usually( since the distance is back) play until 2-3 a.m.

and this is happening every day.

i do have to admit that im sometimes mentioning some "not that nice" topics and asking him from time to time how he is doing with the distance..i rly feel like an idiot right now..kind of sounds like im giving him so much power..and weight..its not only about him but it kind of feels like that right now..

and then there is something i would like to know:

i kind of realized that when there is a lot of sadness or anger then (when he plays ) curses on his mother tongue or he is listening to songs in that language..why? he wants me to see and feel him distancing even more obviously?..

he obviously also has to be more social and build some kind of social life here..but when i mention that guess what "Its too much"..and he also says "u know, its hard for me meeting the right people (friends) because i have such high expectations, i like cool people and they r rare)..he kinda gets so arrogant when he distances himself...

and then also the thing with us being so passive agressive with eachother..when there is a moment where i say i wanna be sweet with him and i wanna see that boyfriend i choose he either makes fun of me and doesnt take me seriously or i cant because i dont wanna be the fool who is trying and i feel like i dont want to give him that power over me..like already mentioned, i rly feel like he is the focus right now...

i had to get this out..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 3 2016 at 14:07
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Yes, breaking the ice via sex, first shutting your chattering mind up with a drink or two.)

"saying "u want this and this and that for me to do,i kinda like my daily routin atm and dont need to do more, im slowly getting used to being here blablabla"..his daily routine btw is sleeping long getting up at 10 going to class for 3 hours and then coming home and playing pc games..then i come home at 5,6 or 7 we eat and then he usually( since the distance is back) play until 2-3 a.m.

and this is happening every day."

I wasn't aware he wasn't pulling his weight, despite he's got about 5 working hours minimum to himself while you're the one working day-in day-out to support you both. That's not on, that's anywhere between being a passenger and a parasite. So okay, we're talking massive resentment on your side, then, and him wanting to be left to mainly play (in his rut of apathy). Well, what does he think you are - mother to his teenage son? Why isn't he looking for a part-time afternoon job? (Is that where the overdue paperwork comes in?) In that case, you do need a wee separation or course of couples counselling because, even if he does no formal, paid work, he could still be lightening your load considerably. That he's not doing anything, seemingly, is unacceptable.

But, first, are you talking straight with him and keeping focussed on communicating what all the problems are for you, rather than allowing yourself to get dragged into the details and I saids/you saids of specific events and arguments whereby your serious talk ends up being just another bicker? Are you sitting him down and as factually and unemotionally as possible, listing all the things about this relationship that you're finding too hard to live with, but in ways that avoid coming over like an attack (via tone and casting assumptions and aspersions)? For example, 'I'm finding it too hard to want to bond deeper with you via sex when, despite I'm slogging my guts out all day to earn our total living expenses, I still, when I get home, have to do all the cleaning and tidying as well as shop for, prepare, make and clear up after supper. Doesn't it cross your mind to do your bit by keeping the house clean and tidy and having supper ready for us so that I have the time and energy for such things [sex]?'.

The trend is still, today, about starting every sentence with 'I feel' instead of 'You're this/doing this, that, this and it's making me feel this/that'. But let's be honest, that's asking too much of mere mortals during the heat or distress of the moment, meaning, it too rarely works out like that (in fact, I don't anyone who's managed it yet). So all I can recommend on that score to keep things real rather than aligned to ideals, is to keep your mind squarely on the fact that you need to just tell him what is (and is lovely), what isn't but anyone would think automatically should/would be, and what is making you distinctly unhappy and why and what the simple solutions are.

The fact is, you're *not* his mother and don't owe him total and utter financial and practical carrying, just because he was the one to up sticks. I appreciate it's difficult, his being an out-of-work foreigner, but now it doesn't sound like he's even *trying* to make himself useful despite there being so much he could do and which would count as taking care of you whilst you take care of him. In fact, he's behaving like he could be a bit depressed. But not that depressed, considering his libido sounds healthy enough, still. Just enough to be in a slump. Certainly lacklustre and apathetic... but let's see: Did he *ever* do his share of pitching in, like housework, DIY, shopping and cooking?

But, saying that, you can't expect him in such a short space of time to adapt to your country and language whereby he ceases talking to himself in his own tongue. That's not reasonable and I doubt he'll *ever* stop per se. And I also don't think he's 'making excuses' when he tries to scrabble around in his mind for definitive things to pin his unhappiness and lethargy on, just scrabbling ignorantly (i.e. not good at self-analysing and articulating). In fact, it'll be lots and lots of little things all piled up over time.

I think your opening statement (after asking him quite formally to come sit down) should be, 'We can't go on like this. You're not happy, I know I'm not. But I feel we could be. So let's discuss from both our points of view what the problems and solutions are and which are workable as opposed to not, rather than wasting our time and energy with unproductive bickering about the off-shoots'.

The trouble is, though, that a lot of men think a woman not having sex with them any more or too little compared to before means one thing: Going/Gone off me, rather than, Just too p*ssed off at me and needs TLC and re-wooing, generally. So, given that he thinks he sees signs that *you're* the one headed for ending it (because you're the one who dares vocalise your dissatisfactions, and repeatedly), it's too much to expect him to feel like pitching in, I'd have thought. Pitch in for what reason? A situation that, he fears, he's not even going to ever see end dividends from? So I do wish you'd take my advice to just '(glug-glug) one, two, three, JUMP (into bed)', even if just to see WHETHER it makes the pair of you feel a whole lot better by reminding you of what you felt in the early days and, thereby, what you have to still fight for... and whether he'll respond by suddenly getting all industrious (which you could help in the afterplay by saying something like, 'The house needs a tidy up and hoover but I'm sooo tired, will you help me later please, can we do it together?' to see how/whether he responds).

Like I said, you need to eliminate this giant problems from the enquiry because I can't tell how much of this mutual angst is down to sexual frustration (albeit can tell it's lurking heavily) or which is due to the practical set-ups, and you need to separate them so that you know exactly what you're left with and why.

Maybe three glasses, then?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 3 2016 at 14:15
Member since: 19 August 2014
By the way, *don't* try to figure him out. Just write yourself a list of all the things you think should be happening now and all along, how you'd expect a boyfriend in his situation, less than ideal regardless, to behave as would keep you feeling happy or at least appreciated. After all, if you were a schookid, playing catch with him, and he kept throwing the ball askew where you had to keep running after it, or throwing it in your face where it kept hurting your nose, and you said to please stop but he still carried on, would you waste time standing there analysing why he were behaving like that or would you just say, 'I don't want to play ball with you because lately it's not fun'? and then let *him* work it out and vow to cooperate?

First you, yes, of course, might try to adjust your throw, in case that were the problem (which is where the 'forcing' yourself to have sex - or at least cuddle and kiss - comes in). But if that made no difference - 'I don't want to play if you're going to X and Y'.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 3 2016 at 16:05
Member since: 27 January 2016
thanks for replying..

ok, well actually he is pulling his (some) weight too..he is a chef so he is cooking(not everyday anymore) and he likes it clean so he cleans up every now and then(once-twice a week) (im the messy one..but i bettered myself after he started complaining and i figured i dont have to leave my pants on the sofa after i took them off and so on..)but do u think its ok that he (passivly agerssive and "funny" ofc.)tells me how he is the one that has to do all of that(cleaning, cooking)..like seriously, im not saying to him that im paying for the food he is eating, am i? (well to be honest the last days i did start mentionening that he could start looking for a job soon..guess how he called me-"the typical complaining gf-haha" never thought i would hear him calling me that..

i do feel like he is kind of taking advantage of the situation..i am trying to be as emotionless and i can be..but my feelings r crazy atm..because i nearly saw the guy i fell in love with for 2 weeks and then he was gona again..and i feel like i cant tell him atm what is going on (yes, maybe i can but i have to act A LOT so it doesnt look like im gonna fall apart of burst into tears..)and that acting is-what u said- not good, is it?

i told u when he got better, it happened when we had this ugly fight (he called me an idiot and i turned off his pc, while he was using it) and the next day, as u might recall, he said sorry, waited for me at the station all teary..was it because i showed him "this is how far u can go with me"? i kind of have that feeling right now..

but how to get back to that? is it him testing my limits still?

the problem i have right now is that he is distant and when that happens he doesnt give a flying f*uck about me( it seems) because is too scared he will get hurt so he shuts me down(??)-however- his behavior is my problem-i just want it real..no fake shit-if u need a day or two to recover from a fight thats ok-but what he does is taking the mood from the day before along..for days and days and then he tells me " the atmosphere between us is weird"-well yeah it is-at some point we make eachother the enemy and so the insiders and the "easy-talking" is gone and it gets weird..hate that btw..we werent used to thatr at all..now its our "everyday bread"..

one more thing tho..i did say it a lot of times the " i need some bonding for being even more open about sex and so it makes me feel more too" but that is overwhelming him..i feel like he can tell me some stuff and i am not even allowed to process( and react to) them i just have to be ok with it and take it but when i have something i feel like after some time its way too much for him..

ive decided tho that im not gonna mention the therapy anymore because i guess i wouldnt want anyone telling me what to do when i dont feel ready for it..still sucks..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 3 2016 at 19:14
Member since: 27 January 2016
What if (and its like that for sure..) he Has Problems with intimacy?

What is there to do for me?

I guess i had or have them too but i can feel how i feel a lot closer when he Holds me and i look into his eyes or i Kiss him gently..bit he gets sexual right away or silly..

Why do i have the feeling like he was More intimate with me behind the pv screen then After we met?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 3 2016 at 20:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
Uh-oh, new data / different light alert!

You're paying for more than just his food, NANA.

Rent

Food

Meals out/takeaways

Toiletries

Cleaning paraphernalia

Gas

Electricity

Water rates

Council/property tax

TV/Sky

Telephone & internet

Household repair costs

Dental (I presume?) & medical

Entertainment...

Sorry, but, let's face facts: you aren't going out to work only some days or as little as twice per week, you do YOUR situation-based, role-reversal duty every...

single...

day.

Without fail.

So should he do his bit every single day. Fair's fair. He's not in a wheelchair, doesn't, for example, need his mouth to be a hod-carrier on a building site. And if you - the person he chose to live his life with - happen to be messy (although it's obviously a sign of caring and willing for you to try to be 'socially acceptable' in this little society of two), then that is that is that... Maybe he snores and you don't (or whatever else that's annoying).

The fact is, this relationship had to have a set-up that featured gender role reversals. No-one's fault. Just life and circumstances'. If he really can't hack you wearing the briefcase and he the pinafore, then he can choose either to exit the relationship or cope with it *properly*. Why should *you* be the only one to suffer financially?

'All the cleaning', pff. What are you - living in a mansion and eating for 3/expecting triplets? I expect YOU'D like to be the one to stay home and every day clean and tidy a bit and cook (total hour-age probably 4 max.) whilst he commutes to a full 8-hour-plus day every day, eh! You do all the commercial working. Why - would he like YOUR job, i.e. work for twice as long non-stop and *not* be in charge of his own time-and-task managing/apportioning?

If ones girlfriends complaining about his lack of trying to get a job so as to contribute his half share or near-as-damnit is 'typical' then he ought look to himself as the common denominator, doesn't he think? Anyway - why? Did he fail to do his own 100% of pitching in with them as well? Sounds like it, doesn't it, unless he just meant, complaining regardless of over what.

Never mind 'kind of' - HE IS taking advantage. You do 8+ hours straight. So should he. We can take off 3 hours for study (because that counts as him trying to better his bread-winner capabilities). But that leave 5. A row-boat that's rowed solely or mostly on one side only produces WHAT NOW? Answer: getting nowhere fast except dizzier and dizzier (and sicker and sicker) and less and less able to see or think straight.

I'm not surprised you've resorted to pointing out your own efforts. It NEEDS pointing out, thanks exclusively to him and his only 40/50% work input.

Tell him he's behaving like a kept woman and a lazy one at that. Does he WANT to get fat and muscularly dystrophied, is that what he's angling towards? Mr(s) Floppy-Blobby, the new, hot drag-act? Next he'll be borrowing your mascara!

His doing as many alternative things as possible to contribute and help pay his way has NOTHING to do with whether or not you and he are experiencing a phase featuring lots of quarrels and pre- and after-maths, including your not feeling positive and hopeful enough towards him to want to have sex/re-cement the bond with him. NOTHING. So would he like to find his own place at his own expense and continue the arguing about your romance from there?

He can't use withdrawal of in whatever way rowing his side of the boat as a weapon. For starters, he, by his very own hand, is reducing his RIGHT to complain about your leaving your trousers in the living-room. It's your rental and your life and lifestyle, ergo your living-room and (within respectful reason) right to mess it up, not his, thanks to his lack of effort. WHEN HE BEHAVES LIKE YOU AND HE ARE EQUAL IS WHEN HE CAN *COMPLAIN AND GO ON-STRIKE* LIKE AN EQUAL.

Now I know why all the drama-creating on his part. Along with mental stimulation to make up for the serious lack of, it provides a smoke-screen to the real issue - his refusal to do his fuller share of rowing.

This is your HOME, Nana, the one place where you should more often than not feel safe and contented, your respite from the sh*t outdoors. And yet, how cosy and relaxed is it feeling lately?

*******

Solution: Write him a letter about everything you're unhappy with *and* everything you're happy about. Start with happy (butter him up) and then launch into the whys and wherefores over why you're not happy per se/in totalis when you so easily could be (both of you). State that since, you believe, all your problems stem from the fact of his being out of work/having too much time on his hands to think negative thoughts, you want to hear him promise to find any part-time job that earns enough to be of countable help or you are sorry, but did NOT sign up for a mother-full-grown-son relationship.

No wonder you can't sh*g him; you'll have lost too much respect for him.

*******

Either he wants to be in it to win it, which means doing everything *properly and fully*, or he doesn't, in which case he should go home and have a very long think about his attitude. You opted to *share* your life, including the measures and mechanisms you already had in place, not hand them over free-of-charge for him to appropriate.

And anyway, no it *didn't* 'get better' because all the while there was still this ruddy great "I'm a ladyboy wot lunches" elephant in the room.

*******

Yes it got better directly because of the fact of your finally and more firmly putting your foot down - being curt when at work and then the episode at the station. The problem was, you took your foot up again - all the way - too quickly, making it appear that nothing had happened and nothing that'd been said about how he treats you *atop* a lack or under-par-ness of treating you with the basic show of willing, was a bona fide gripe(s) truly meant. A fight is supposed to be an opportunity to strike compromises and re-negotiate past deals/set-ups.

He's not shutting down because he's 'scared of getting hurt'. He's shutting down because then you can't and don't feel capable of calling him to account via talks and gaining concrete promises for reassurance over his ability to be a part-time current and full-time future provider or to even *want* to prove to you that he even can or could! If he doesn't show via the BASICS that he's in this long-term then how on earth are you supposed to act in ways that fortify that state of affairs in the short? What woman wants to heart-chain herself to a lazy layabout who starts, exacerbates then drags out fights, all just so's he can avoid having to finally join the wider society he's supposedly elected to join when he joined the micro version with you?

You're right, he might well be trying to hold off assimilating himself into that world because he'd prefer you to live in his country where getting and holding down a job for better wages than currently do-able would be far easier. But that, still, is no excuse not to row the boat in the meantime or else by the time you perhaps *agree* to move to his country there won't even *be* a romance between you! And yet there is still no arguing with his feet (incl. his 'showing' his friend around the apartment and taking up German). So he's in conflict, then - half wants to stay and make a go in your country, half wants to go back. Half pushing against an equal weighted half equals paralysis and just rocking on the spot. It also equals FRUSTRATION... which compounds his need for taking it out on you.

If he says the atmosphere is weird, etc., then that tells me that the crux problem here is indeed you, in that you spoiled him like one does a guest/new member for TOO LONG, whereby he GOT USED TO not having to do his half share of this/that/the other... And now you're trying to finally get all the societal rules and regulations and expectations into belated place.

Difficult. So I think in this letter you should point out that you *did* give him exemption from yours and the majority's demands, but that he's somehow got the sense that he'd have it that easy (whilst you had it still as hard as when single or harder) *forever*. So you're going to have to point out - holiday's over, time to pitch in like a *resident*. Until he throws himself properly *into* this new/foreign lifestyle then nothing for him (and knock-on for you) is going to improve because it's like him trying to ride a bike by pedalling only one leg (duh) and then complaining that the bike's a let-down (duh) as means he barely wants to ride it any more.

**********

"one more thing tho..i did say it a lot of times the " i need some bonding for being even more open about sex and so it makes me feel more too" but that is overwhelming him..i feel like he can tell me some stuff and i am not even allowed to process( and react to) them i just have to be ok with it and take it but when i have something i feel like after some time its way too much for him.."

Are you telling me HE has the freedom to state complaints and wishes whenever need be, but that the minute you have anything, he 'can't cope' with it and 'shuts down'? WELL, HOW CONVENIENT!

Where is he from, this darling little, some time chauvenistic despot? Has he ever *had* a relationship with a woman before, live-in or not? Or ever experienced a democracy? Because this isn't just trying it on/testing your limits, as in, who gets to call the comfiest side of the sofa "their side", is it. It's him seemingly trying to create an ongoing, wide-reaching set of situations so that it becomes a concreted-in set of habits that can't be broken - ever. And it's called, I am King and she pauper, with distribution of rights to-suit.

(Not on my watch, he ain't. :-p)

Write the letter. Draft it here if you like. And if, in it, you wish to state that your condition for continuing the relationship (should the letter and any subsequent talks not do the trick) is that he attend couples counselling with you then YOU DO THAT. It's your right. It's any partner's right, but especially yours. YOU'VE PAID FOR IT - including LITERALLY!

You mention what you like. After all, he does, doesn't he.

Methinks (hope!), though, that he's behaving like this - taking power/rights that are supposed to be part of your 50% - because he feels so damn powerless and lacking in the normal freedoms and controls. But then we're just back full-circle to, that's his own lard-a*se, gaming fault.

If he doesn't step up in response to the letter and perhaps refuses counselling then I fail to see what other course of action would be open to you other than to say you don't want a dependent, you want a romantic relationship with an equal partner to *your* equal partner, so he needs to go back to his country for 6 weeks (remember the return flight booking) so that you can weigh everything up properly in your mind and decide where and how to go from there (and same for him), as in, is he in and acting accordingly or out and acting accordingly, no more of this "half-hearted city" situation.

**********

Saying all of that, though... How long EXACTLY has he been with you in your country, living with you at your expense and getting perks for woefully too little work whilst you get woefully little perks for full-on work? Should have asked that earlier (duh to me), but..If, for example, you say it's only been 6 months then I've been putting the cart ahead of the horse.

And then tell me exactly for how long he did more of the cooking and cleaning (and whatever else) (and whether he did it properly and thoroughly), and how much less he does now, in comparison?

He may well still have good intentions deeper down and is just too effed off to the point where he's now his (and your) own worst enemy, but, own worst mega-enemy is the way he's definitely going unless we devise this or another strategy to give him a giant kick up the backside to get him OFF his backside (at which point he'd inevitably start to feel better anyway).

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 3 2016 at 20:14
Member since: 19 August 2014
Sorry, just to be crystal, that should have been: wants to go back and take you with him. But you're hardly likely to want to do that with him being such a despot, are you.

(He's not exactly Einstein, is he.)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 3 2016 at 21:16
Member since: 27 January 2016
thx for the responds soulmate..

i cant tell u how often i had that feeling that the roles have switched...and i guess months ago i did say it but i think nothing happenend back then because well..we never rly talked things through and besides that what man is going to admit that anyway?

funny u r mentioning it, im his first "real gf"..so first time in a seriouse relationship(where according to him he felt in love for the first time..and now imagine how confusing it has to be for him experiencing all that shit..i dont want to imagine what and how he is going to react when i write him that letter..he is gonna fall into a fucking depression and lose hope..but yeah i have to do it..u r right)

well he has been living here (we took this flat right before he came) for almost 7 months..

and then cooking more and then less varies depending on his mood on that day..we have times where we go and get takeouts a lot..

"He may well still have good intentions deeper down and is just too effed off to the point where he's now his (and your) own worst enemy, but, own worst mega-enemy is the way he's definitely going unless we devise this or another strategy to give him a giant kick up the backside to get him OFF his backside (at which point he'd inevitably start to feel better anyway)." -like this part btw..hope we can come up with something..it would be such a f*cking shame having to end it..i now that him and i both dont want that..

btw..i finished the dishes earlier and then we ate..just right before we ate he asked me to finish some other cleaning in the kitchen i said i didnt feel like it anymore..and he said "he would appretiate it..(well i could tell u what i would appretiate but that list is way too long..)anyways, i senced him getting mad and passive agressive again so i said "ok lets to this, how about i do the dishes after we ate again" and after we finished, which was an hour ago i didnt feel like it anymore...and now he is mad or what ever..i mean i love having this new(old) info about him not doing his whole share but i rly dont know how to act in sitations like this..do i get mad and start an argument?..its way too late..and i can also tell u whats gonna happen next..im just gonna go to sleep in about half an hour and we r gonna talk tomorrow how "weird it was again"before i went to sleep...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 4 2016 at 05:53
Member since: 19 August 2014
"hope we can come up with something"

[Bugs Bunny voice] Nyyyyeaaah, she don' know me vewy wew, do she! ;-D

Fall into a depression? Well, if every, actually easily fixed problem lays Fifi-Trixibelle out flat like that then he should be a little White minibus passenger with a penchant for licking windows and waving at shop dummies. Or, what - did he also never attend school and experience test marks and annual school reports featuring the usual criticisms of 'must try harder' without the aid of Prozac or extensive counselling?

Don't make excuses and blockades for yourself, Nana. YES, it has to be done. For your sake as well as his ('own oxygen mask on before helping others with theirs'). Why, what other ideas can you think of that haven't already fallen flat?

What man is going to admit role-reversal? Er... a man who's temporarily stuck in an exemplar of one, that's 'what'. Or would he rather delude himself all the time?

No, he won't lose hope. Not if you write and order it the right way (I'll help). He should be inspired by the compelling challenge to show his manly stuff or he should resign himself again to pulling pigtails and playing Kiss-Chase. (PS can you asterisk your expletives, please? Thanks.)

Long-distance relationship not even started (let alone soon enough) in-the-flesh *and* his first-ever proper relationship? Ye gods - you *sure*-sure-sure you back then wanted a relationship fit to succeed rather than a temporary, time-limited fling?

But anyway/actually, to be fair on him, 7 months isn't that long. That doesn't mean you don't write the letter - in order, now, to nip all buds and get him and yourself back on track - but it'll obviously affect its tone and content in the sense of how you *worry* about where the pair of you are seemingly headed "if", rather than are already at.

"and then cooking more and then less varies depending on his mood on that day..we have times where we go and get takeouts a lot.."

(His mood, his mood, his tardy bedtime hangover, his this, his that, his damn PMT...pff. ) If you get takeouts "a lot" then what incentive does he have to cook rather than just hold off for the zero-hassle version? Told ya - you've spoiled him. Trying to be the perfect hostess, were we, and then got stuck in the habit you'd set? And why didn't you two formulate a rough plan about what he'd do, work-wise, and by when, etc., etc. *before* moving-in day?

Well, anyway...No, you *used to* have times...but the trouble, now, is that disposable funds are running lower (coo, how did that happen!). Plus, that was before he ceased doing all he could to *co-earn* that particular luxury/perk amongst many....thanks to said PMT. So what you do from now on is ring or text him before you leave work, to ask if he's cooking supper that night (because [a] you're starving already, probably this particularly tricky, demanding project you and your colleagues are working flat-out on ...which is too technical to explain to a non-fluent English speaker, cough-cough.. or [b] say you're working late). If he says no, his ovaries are acting-out again (:-p), you reply that he's not to worry, you'll grab something on the trot/en-route or will grab a bite with a (female) colleague at whatever bistro, TO SAVE HIM FROM *HAVING* (make the emphasis subtle) TO COOK *FOR YOU*, whilst reminding him that there's this/that *ingredients* in the cupboard or fridge. BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT HIS MOTHER.

As long as you're providing basic food provisions, you can't be accused of controlling or abusing him. But you *are* making it worth his while to lend a hand by doing what he can do, standing on his head: cooking. (I mean, jezuz louisus, you have a CHEF living-in, no less!!!...one that must know how to make a great meal out of the most meagre and inexpensive ingredients! A nightly top-notch cooked meal should be one of your standard perks!) And if he's forced enough times to cook for himself - or make himself a sandwich - which he then has to eat all alone, then it would be too un-ignorably churlish of him not to offer to double the ingredients as his way to incentivize *you* to eat at home with him (because you can be sure that Mr Alone For 8+ Hours looks forward to your coming through that door every day).

Change your attitude. Yes, you *do* 'want that'. *IF* you thought things could only continue on this decidedly lopsided, distinctly unfair basis.

I mean, what's all THIS about?!...

"btw..i finished the dishes earlier and then we ate..just right before we ate he asked me to finish some other cleaning in the kitchen i said i didnt feel like it anymore..and he said "he would appretiate it..(well i could tell u what i would appretiate but that list is way too long..)anyways, i senced him getting mad and passive agressive again so i said "ok lets to this, how about i do the dishes after we ate again" and after we finished, which was an hour ago i didnt feel like it anymore...and now he is mad or what ever..i mean i love having this new(old) info about him not doing his whole share but i rly dont know how to act in sitations like this..do i get mad and start an argument?..its way too late..and i can also tell u whats gonna happen next..im just gonna go to sleep in about half an hour and we r gonna talk tomorrow how "weird it was again"before i went to sleep..."

He'd appreciate it??? What - after his long day at the office?! Who does he think he is?!

Here are a few ways of how you act in that situation:

- Say, "What? Okay, uh-huh, yeah, in a minute..." [make no move]. And, if necessary, repeat.

- Say, "Seriously? You've been at home doing virtually nothing all day or certainly less than half of what I do, and you expect *me* to make my working day NINE hours instead of 8, just to keep yours capped at roughly half a day? Am I hearing you right?" [followed by ignoring whatever nonsense he says next or nonchalantly leaving the room to go read a book on your bed if he won't drop it]... although you obviously don't like self-assertion and confrontation to that degree so - strike.

- *Don't* relent when you feel him getting mad. Keep watching the telly instead.

But anyway, this, arguing about who clears up after eating, is more often than not going to become a moot point, what with you spending that 'often takeaway' money on solely yourself from now on, eh. He can 'appreciate' *himself* clearing up after himself, can't he. ;-)

Oh, and FYI, he can't make you talk about *anything* if you don't want to. Because that, too, is a perk. As you're aware. Yet never get given the courtesy of.

Democracy, doncha love it? :-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 4 2016 at 11:45
Member since: 27 January 2016
sry about the cursing btw..i was rly mad..but yeah im going to asterisk them ofcourse..

well there is something u should know too regarding "did he also never attend school and experience test marks and annual school reports featuring the usual criticisms of 'must try harder' without the aid of Prozac or extensive counselling?"-well,he was never the "school typ" never did a lot of school, somehow he managed to charm the "cooking-school" to take him without finishing the previous school AND he used to smoke a lot of the green stuff (since he was 16-every day..) and just last year around this time or some months earlier he stopped (he always said that i was one of the reasons..it was rly hard for him from time to time..he also started talking about how he would like to smoke again(made me rly sad and angry)..but then he didnt because he doesnt want to fall into that situation again)so yeah..i dont know how much of a stamina/backbone he rly has(i dont get it tho..he grew up in the ghetto, he lost his mom some years ago,his dad is an asshole so he had to manage his life on his own)..and how to write that piece of paper without him freaking out..

okay, so here is some new info:

did i tell u that last sunday the mood was strange( ofc) because well he feels distant and i worried about it and we were at my sisters helping her out with moving stuff..there he told me that "he rly loves me for who i am" (he feels like he has the control about all of it..)and "he knows a lot he is saying r excuses.." and then "i do thought how it would be when i move back:i would get some loans from the state and get a flat+welfare money and then i would look for a job again"..i got so sad ( ofc..)and went to the balcony to cry..he then came to me and didnt say much "he just wanted to be there for me"(pf...) and said "im gonna do the therapy" which is bullshit because we talked about it later this week (like i told u) and he said "i just dont feel like doing it and u r pushing me the whole time..

+

his friends(males) r coming to visit in 2 months and he said "maybe we could ake some days off and go back with them"..

what should i thought about this..

we already talked about him goind back(without me) a lot of times (sad times) and i just dont want to incourage that..if i say ok u can go for a month back (like u said) then im scared he is not gonna come back again...( i remember u saying to buy the back-home ticket..but still..)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 4 2016 at 12:00
Member since: 27 January 2016
PS:sry about the "bullsh*t"..
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 4 2016 at 17:02
Member since: 19 August 2014
My point was simply, he can't be a stranger to criticism of any kind in any walk of life, because he's human. Life *is* non-stop challenges, despite mini-sized while one's a mini-person (it's all relative).

Used to smoke weed and then stopped for good once he found you. (*One* of the reasons, my bottom. *THE* reason!) There goes yet another symptomatic proof of how much he wants and needs you. Course... despite he doesn't have much going for him (yet) due to his predicament, he has never yet, not even ONCE, so much as attempted to get back on that aeroplane when he so easily, again and again with each and every new day, could.

"his dad is an asshole so he had to manage his life on his own)"

There we go. So overall he's intent on rebelling against and not replicating his dad's attitudes and behaviour (and does have a backbone, hence isn't dead yet nor an a-hole 100% of the time nor too nervous about jumping lives/countries) AND YET, the minute he's in Lizard Brain mode (panic) and/or feeling out of control, those constantly witnessed behavioural/reactionary habits are what he lazily grabs for. Common stuff.

He won't freak out. Did he freak out when you were uncharacteristically curtly crisp with him over the office phone that day? NAY. He 'stepped up'. Instantly.

Here's the bottom-line truth with people who had one or both parents that were 'a-holes':

Picture a relationship as a see-saw. Equality is the goal, but that means sitting stock-still in level-pegged position which is too boring for what is supposed to be a ride. It has to be just that, with a constantly changing view, BUT where the view and motion is what becomes focussed on, rather than who's in which position. Up, down, up, down, in equal measure but gently enough that no-one's seat bumps the ground hard each time and the view isn't just some constant blur.

Someone brought up in such ways as to believe relationships are either Master or Servant and who themselves habitually got kept under the thumb in Servant position, will as quickly as possible try to secure the Up position (so as not to replicate the parent-child dynamic), with you permanently in Down, *or* - the opposite extreme - elect to take the Servant position (as a Yes Man intent on forever avoiding clashes and confrontations). Neither is dealing with the actual problem - lack of equality.

Extremes are the point. They know only those two opposites, you see; they're their Either/Or operational comfort zones. Hence, it's not difficult, from the Servant position, to push up 'violently' using your legs to switch the dynamic. That act comes merely from a simple decision. Same goes, when having been forced in the Servant position for too long, for quickly jumping OFF your seat, whereupon the so-called Master falls suddenly and painfully from a great height onto their tailbone before falling off backwards or sideways (Ouch City!). Mastering is pointless in the long run.

What *they* find alien is that in-between zone, including when it's spread out via the up-down-up-down motion (where you fleetingly keep experiencing the level position), hence why they too quickly secure either the Up position (trying to stay there by being 'lighter' than you and helping to make and keep you 'heavy') or keep you too light and sod their own heaviness (Doormat). In order, therefore, to 'wean' them into equality, even during 'windy' days (clashes), you have to first Master them... and then bit-by-bit, daily, re-start a gentler up-and-down motion so that overall the see-saw hangs around the level/horizontal position for longer and no-one's too busy vying for whichever position to enjoy the scenery and gentle breeze and lullaby motion, etc. In other words, take back your power and control *and* most of his (via a muster of strength in your thighs and calves), followed by meting his back out (whilst retaining yours, this time permanently).

"Start to do what's right and fair or the ride stops!". It's not as if he doesn't deserve hearing something (subtly) along that warning line - whether or NOT he would ideally prefer to pull his own weight (and yours, probably) - or that you're trying to achieve nothing but unfairly manipulate him. This is you redressing the balance, you well within healthy rights. He'll either 'come down' to the hated equality position (in the process of refusing to be seen to lower himself the whole way) or, I'm betting (like over the phone and at the station), straight to the obsequious Servant position to avoid 'getting fired'. You, vitally, KEEP him there for longer than you usually do so THAT you can start gently bit-by-bit, inch-by-inch, lowering your end of the see-saw just enough to let him adapt more relaxedly to being level, despite still gently going up and down to keep his interest in the ride kept alive.

His self-elected statements, like that 'I know a lot of what I say is excuses', should show you that he was indeed perpetually Servanted more than not and therefore isn't even as comfortable with keeping his Master position as he his Servant. I expect it's simply that, what with you having the power of holding his heart in your hands, power and loss of control still *feels* the same as the lack of power and control that his dad (and life0 routinely subjected him to, meaning, he's being triggered, in the moment, into the primitive behaviour of automatically rebelling and resorting to thinking of himself as master of all he surveys, without enough thought or awareness of the damage it's doing. It's just a survival habit. And he, more so than you due to his whole childhood, is used to bouncing back.

I believe him when he says he's going to do the therapy. What I *don't* believe is when he says the opposite *during an argument or aftermath period*. During such moments, he'll just say whatever he knows means a lot to you and will obviously hurt (because he feels hurt). But he wasn't hurt and bristling and grabbing for a return grenade on that balcony, was he. The minute you 'lower' yourself, he responds by 'heightening' himself (the right way), trying to be your rock/hero. And, when he goes on about taking you back to his country, that is simply him wanting to be the man, in a position where he can be the traditional bread-earner TAKING CARE OF *YOU* to keep his sense of masculine pride intact. But it's the only solution he can think of.

(Is he a good chef, by the way?)

When you next get him (in a quiet, harmonious moment) to restate his agreement to do therapy, you shouldn't leave it there, you should strike whilst the iron is hot and agree a date or deadline AND THEN IMMEDIATELY PHONE AROUND AND BOOK A SLOT. That way, you commit you both to the idea as a done deal. Then there's no "pushing"/repeating the proposition, is there. Just reminding.

However, saying all of the above: How DO you feel about sampling a spell in his country to see if things are markedly improved and suddenly plain-sailing, in terms not only of the quality of your relationship and dynamic but for you each as individuals? Could you get a good 2 weeks off work?

As for this: "if i say ok u can go for a month back (like u said) then im scared he is not gonna come back again...( i remember u saying to buy the back-home ticket..but still..)"

Feel the fear but do it anyway, with the aid of that return-ticket obligation/insurance. Otherwise, nothing is going to change whilst fear restrains your choices, decisions and actions; you can't act wholeheartedly. You'll produce nothing but half-mast with half results to match... right back at Square One, in other words. And that's the secret to winning. You bear in MIND you could fail yet keep focussed on winning. Only if one doesn't mind/can hack the thought of life following loss/failure, despite they'd really rather not, based on knowing they'll come out of that wash okay in the end, can one have the confidence to stand by what they want, deserve and expect to the point of getting it.

What you two are doing is this: Surveying the three-legged-racetrack, lacking faith that you have it in you to win, concluding there's therefore too little point in running the race at full-pelt under full cooperativeness, NOT giving it your all, and therefore making failure highly likely. Duh?

If you don't want him to prefer being back on his own ground and, because you're not there with him at the time, mistakenly associate happiness with BEING WITHOUT YOU, then the sensible thing is to join him, calling it a holiday. But he already long said with his feet and *continued* saying with his feet that being in his own country if it means without you, is PANTS. Hence he left it (duh?). Face the evidenced facts: even with practically non-stop acrimony, his feet STILL don't consider his old home more attractive. What does THAT tell you? Answer: that his life before he met you, compared to now, *is* pants. But it wouldn't be if you were there as well.

It's you. He wants to be with you and remain being with you. You're safe. Safe to let him go home for a while (and get reminded of why and how it was pants before this negative climate made his mind go and deify it in memoriam) and even safer to go with him. But you are going to have to have more than the one holiday over there before you even consider making it long-term or permanent, that's for sure. Or keep paying your rent while you sample life in his country (with the onus squarely on him to support you the minute you land) so that you have an instant bolt-hole to escape or return to.

(PS: What b*llsh*t?)

Here's something you should spout to him (and yourself): Things are always, ALWAYS alright in the end. So if at any given point things *aren't* alright, it simply means it's not the end yet. :-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 4 2016 at 17:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
PS forgot to add: Mastering your partner the healthy way means, when they NEED you to step up and take both sets of reins, because, say, you're ill, injured, sad/upset, mourning, depressed or simply gagging for your turn at having a rare Lazy Day. Now note, you were upset on that balcony and he wasted no time in telling you, sincerely, all the right things AS WELL AS basically told you not to believe the things he says when in panic mode. That was an apology, Nana.

I think he's basically a good'un but just unhappy, confused (same thing), aimless and feeling helpless and useless. Probably because neither of you have given this quite enough time for him to find his feet.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 4 2016 at 21:35
Member since: 27 January 2016
and once again thank u for the reply :) (what do u do btw, like job wise?..i hope the same thing as here..pretty much looking up to u right now..)

ok so here we go:

i did notice that i gave in A LOT! there is almost no one i did this with i think but with him ( that guy has my hearth..sh*t) i couldnt do it any other way( ofc till now)

so what u r saying is that i shouldnt anymore? well im trying not to..how do u feel about this?:

today at work i wrote my friend i wanted to see her and then him(after he wrote he wanted to cook) that im going to meet her if shes in the city.she wasnt tho so i went home..but his reaction "but i wanted to cook smth for us" was smth i hoped for..

well however she couldnt and i told him and then he started telling me all about his great plan(shopping, getting this and that, cooking, having to boil this, frying that etc..)

after a while i had some time so i called him. he was on the market getting the food and he said he is (finally) also gonna get some "credit" for his phone so he could actually call me or whomever ( i was asking him since forever when he is going to do that (shows me again: no Actions, because how could u actually DO smth or CALL someone, when u dont have credit on it-means i have to, i have to call him or take care of his stuff))

so from how i learnd (from u in a way) to analyse this is that me telling him i might go and see a friend triggered some ACTIONS (?)..

well after a while i was on my way home from work and he told me the food is going to be ready 2 hours after i arrive, so u went to mcds and ate a cheeseburger(or two :P)

i arrived home and he was cooking and then it started-the blender (my blender ofc) didnt work properly and he was f*cking arround with it for hours(!!) and then i told him "just go to the neighbours dont make your life harder is the answer is easy" and guess what he said: "no, f*ck that" and i said it again and then he said "could u go?" and i said "this is your thing its your dish just go there what is the problem?" he said that they dont like us and its embarassing..

well after a while back and forth he asked me to help him and i said that i dont feel like it and i dont want to make my "work day" even longer and he said "well ofc u said that..i wasnt expecting anything else"

it went so far that he said "well then if im cooking this and its my dish then u r not gonna get anything.." (what ever...) i said "well the next time u r not gonna have anything to buy it with" and we were back at "i knew u were gonna say that"

after a while and a lot of frustration on his side he same with some unfinished hummus and i ate a bit..lost my appetite tho..

i was more or less emotionless and went back to my series i was watching since i came home..

we r not rly talking right now because i am not gonna give in( i have to admit i did just for a second when he was so frustrated( i said "its annoying u isnt it" in a nice way and pet his arm, he then felt like he could get rly angry again and show how frustrated he was//my bad..still learnin..but what would u suggest there? i just wanted to show some sympathy.)

btw he is rly good chef (doesnt have his diploma yet)(he left the education he started some months after we met online again and left it for me ..)

so r we back on the original plan? the letter? what does that have to include? what im happy/unhappy about? and some reality check? lets say the things ive realized/u pointed out so nicly? i am going to need your help on that one and im also gonna show u first before i give it to him..

oh yeah and btw when i say "therapy" i mean on his own..sorting his stuff out..because he does have to know all the stuff u said/pointed out to me..

pc. "(PS: What b*llsh*t?)" i havent asterisk it..sry about that

pps. still not trying to relent!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 7 2016 at 15:21
Member since: 27 January 2016
ok, so here some stuff i wanted to report:

after the night were i ignored him and his nagging and b*tching he then apologized the net morning (saying "sry that i was so distant and it was a good idea that u left me alone"(!?) he also asked me o cut him some slack..i just said no and we laughed..

after that we had a nice time and after the breakfast he then had to leave to the massage appointment he made (because i needed some free time and "i made him do it"*rolling eyes*)

after the massage he came home (on the way he got my moms other blender)and finished the food (he asked me to help him with the dmg control because the kitchen was rly dirty but i didnt because i didnt feel like it)

the mood was tense and we ate and then i made a joke about him cleaning the kitchen( i wanted to provoke a fight..so i could gain the upper hand again i guess..) then we started brawling and i just waited util it got rly heated and his last "punch"..then i stood up and was mad..

from that point on we didnt speak until the next day after him and me showered(weekly lunch at my moms) he told me that he is very hungry and if i could be a bit faster and i said im gonna...(with an "i-dont-care" attitude)..i think i was waiting for him to apologize, but was i even right or did i just wanna gain the upper hand with manipulation(and it was a bad one too i guess..)however i was done and he already waited for an hour and i said im leaving. he said "wait, my game is almost done and i said i dont care im gonna go now"..writing this i feel like such an idiot...i was almost out and he asked me to take on of the two cloth bags but i said i cant because i was already carring something else(wasnt that heavy) i also said that he shouldnt bother coming to my moms and he got rly angry and said he is going to..

i feel like i have to apologize for that nonsense...

but ok, that wasnt even the end of the story..

i went there (he managed to get into the same tram) and we ate. i went for a smoke and wanted to phone a friend so i could go and see he after the lunch (he overheard the convo and went back in to get his stuff and left-he felt hurt that i didnt tell him before..)..jeeez i feel so bad right now..yesterday it made sense to me..

after a couple of hours i was back home again..and we didnt talk to eachother..i guess at some point i started the convo ( i cant remember anymore) and it escalated:

he called me names and said some stuff like

-why did i even come here

-i hate it here

-i just came for u

-u r so ignorant

-u retard

-shut the f up

and so on..

and i said almost everything i knew from talking to here..( i am such an idiot..)

i mentioned:

-that the respect was connected to the sex

-that he has o find a job

all of it i think..

he flipped and i did too and after him calling me aweful names i just took off to my moms without him knowing..

we didnt talk or right until an hour ago:

he called me and apologized..and said that he was ashamed and that he felt very bad for what he called me..but it wasnt like the last time he kind of also said that he didnt know what to say eiter and i kind of said yeah " i cant have u behaving like that towards me" and he says he is sry but like i said i had a different feeling after this fight and besides that we also started focusing him and analyzing via phone why he is feeling like this and that.he also said that he missed me and he was surprised that i took of and it was strange without me but it was a good thing because we "needed" that(i didnt need that! but why did he?!)

then we talked about the trip to his coutry.he said he thought about going there on his own and i said well what ever u want and that i would like to come too and he said he isnt sure and that maybe he needs some time there to put everything in perspective and for us to miss eachother..( i dont want him to be there without me and besides that i dont need the time to miss him i just need him to realise that he has to build a life here too)..he was also saying that he is torn because he loves me so much and i mean the world to him but he wants back..(he isnt sure what exactly he is missing:the truth is according to him that its not the family or the friends and from time to time he was unhappy there too but maybe he misses being excited about me and being independent..)

well however the conversation we had was strange i didnt gain anything from the fight..just an unhappy nigt and next morning..jesus..he has to start working, going to therapy and what do i have to do? did i just give in again?

i rly need some help now..it feels like i acted like an idiot the last few days..wasnt myself at all just wanted to provoke smth in order for me to gain the upper hand i guess..i wouldnt even know how to not give in i guess (well i do but in order for me to do that i have to be right and rly hurt..which didnt rly happen this fight..)

today after work im meeting a friend again to see her new flat and after that he is cooking smth i wanted to eat for some time now..i do feel like i won in a way because he felt bad and all of that(and he is preparing that dish..but not rly because while we were talking the focus was him and what he wants to do and how he is gonna continue and how he feels now..

he also told me that he thought a lot about him being here etc etc..

looking forward to your respons..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 8 2016 at 01:19
Member since: 19 August 2014
Nana, I'm so sorry - I see you've posted twice (haven't read them yet,), but I'm going to have to ask you to be a tad more patient (I'm over-busy again). I'll be back on tomorrow and will make your thread my first priority.
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 8 2016 at 10:28
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hey Soulmate, Thx for the Info!

Hope its ok if i just add some stuff that u just thought of, so u have a better picture.

Ok so u said that he didnt come and Visit me before i did and that Kind of reminds me of Couple of Other Things.

-)Back when we used to Chat i took the initiative pretty quickly(i honestly didnt Expect is to Meet wer i thought im Gonna chicken out) so After a month of writing i told him im Gonna sell my tv (was already about to sell it) and i could take the Money and come and Visit him..i did sell it but im a Big Spender from time to Time and as i said wasnt nearly ready to go there so i used it on other stuff) After that i started Dating a friend of mine and told him After a while..h was pretty p*ssed and we didnt talk for some weeks..then i got Cheated on and wrote him ..it needed some convincing but he started talking to me again..

-) there was also the thing that i send him a care Package After a while he send me One and then i think to his Birthday i send him One again..

-)After i just found out that my mom is rly sick (After i got cheated on) i told him about my mom. I was in a rly Bad Place (didnt know how to Handle that properly..) and he started a Fight..i couldnt believe that he did that.. I told him that he is being an ass just starting a Fight (he was jealous i think) After i just told him that ..im Not quite sure what happened After that i just know that i needed him and After some days i said lets put this Fight behind us..

-) on nye i was at my friends Place (my ex lived there too) and (because i didnt have that much faith in my Bf-who wasnt my Bf yet) we had Sex.. I needed some confirmation i guess.. Strange Time..

-) One of the secrets we told eachother was that he slept with a girl some months later and that i slept with my ex( he says he did that as revenge for me starting a relationship when we were already chatting)

-) somehow we got closer some months before i Went to Visit him. And he started saying ok if u song come (i was postponing the whole time) then i will.and when i Went to the Trainstation to Check the Tickets because they r cheaper here i just spontaniously bought them for myself because i was very insecure and i wanted to have to possibility just to leave if it wasnt what i expected...

Just a Little Input because i was thinking about me being very dominant in a Way..or lets say stuburn ( he told me i was very dominant when i came to his Country and we had to find out how to treat eachother...

See u later i guess :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 9 2016 at 01:03
Member since: 19 August 2014
Wanted 'to provoke a fight so you could get the upper hand'??

Nana, I'm very confused because throughout your posts of Friday and yesterday you seemed to be attributing credit for your actions to my strategy-based advice and then the next minute exonerating me/it by plainly stating your recognition of your having veered completely from it whilst introducing your own ideas and styles.

Please let me make it absolutely clear that I did in no way recommend or advocate that... *mess* up there. I was recommending that you stand firmly up for yourself and not be so quick to forgive and forget ONLY WHENEVER *HE* WAS BEING UNFAIR, UNKIND OR UNTOWARD IN WHATEVER WAY, *NOT* WHEN HE WAS FINALLY STARTING TO STEP UP. You were supposed to 'punish' or deprive him for bad behaviour but - the tacit made clear - reward him for good.

He offered to cook. Stepped up. Started rowing his side of the boat properly. And yet, STILL, you went and reacted sustainedly as if he'd given you a 'screw you and your supper' attitude.

He was being a cooperative teammate, merely asked you to behave likewise by playing Sous Chef... and yet you were the one to basically say 'screw you!'. (He probably didn't even need your help, just wanted you and he to do something together in order to mend the bond.)

That wasn't you 'disciplining/training', it was more like bullying and despotism, you just turning the egotistically vindictive and uncooperative tables (spitting on nice gestures) and making everything worse. In which case, clearly it's too soon to expect you not to unconsciously or otherwise bring into any interactions your understandable, latent anger and bitterness towards him regarding his treatment of you up until just recently.

So I'm going to repeat my earlier suggestion, that you two either have an amicable, mutually-agreed, small break before starting again afresh with new understanding (re. what's been happening, how, and why, and how to approach things differently and more sensible) in your attitudes with vows/resolutions to match, or seek a couples counsellor in your area just as soon as practicable in order to achieve that same goal a little less quickly (albeit perhaps more thoroughly).

But one thing I will say is this: His saying he's 'torn' is unacceptable. I myself would *not* allow that basis to be left to exist as if somehow workable as a foundation on which to make good or rebuild. It is not. It's a HALF-foundation. And if you try to build or re-build a full house on a half foundation..... [insert Bleedin' Obvious here].

Not that you had a very solidly placed 'underlay' foundation to begin with, all that 'two-timing' and, er, REVENGE(???).

The relationship cannot, CANNOT improve with you feeling like he's got one foot on that home-bound plane already. That (if you need an analogy to help explain how you feel to him) would be like a chef being expected to cook the meal of his life like his whole career depended on it, despite the customer won't stay sat down nor order an aperitif and keeps loitering near the exit door... ain't gonna happen, is it). Nothing will work as you both want it to if he's not even 100% committed to making this work 'as is' or regardless of where, and whichever (hardly insurmountable) obstacles like finding himself a job and making friends thus putting down actual roots (other than just to you). Saying that, however, it's highly, repeat, HIGHLY likely that he wouldn't be so-called torn to begin with if you and he weren't experiencing this level of clashing and alienation (and then, more to the point, exacerbating it by making the distinctly wrong/opposite moves). Vicious Circle.

But he certainly can't have started out 'torn', can he, considering (actions) he did manage to up-stix over to your country and home (and despite that very shaky start).

My vote is a wee break (- trust me, breaks are god-sent gifts merely disguised in, granted, very scary-seeming wrapping paper), using that very statement of his as your ONLY REASONABLE AND EXPECTABLE grounds to call one. (Unless he immediately takes it back, of course.) (Best read that parenthesis again, given what's just happened.) So were it me, I would let him take that holiday on his own and waste no time in booking it. In order to damage-limit and thereby save the crucial bones of the relationship. If it *fails* to work to save the relationship then clearly nothing you did or tried to avoid doing was going to work anyway.

He may *not* be torn, though, and just said it when in need of a return missile. Who knows when you two fail to solely say what you mean and mean what you say. And then do. And then don't. And then both mixed together... But he needs to get serious and take it back - AND DO SOMETHING CONCRETE TO PROVE IT - if he didn't wholeheartedly mean it and was just trying to use this climate as his great excuse to get you to let him visit his friends without you 'cramping his style' or making it impossible for him to get feedback (because he can't discuss you and he with you present), and simply just SAY, HONESTLY, if he needs a home visit and would have done anyway even if things had been rosy this whole time.

Or he might be instigating a break for sensible reasons - BECAUSE he doesn't want the relationship to get further chipped and tarnished by the bickering and is aware of what a superb tonic a break can and, in your joint case, would be. Again - who knows whether he means whatever he says or when he does as opposed to doesn't.

Alternatively, if all of that is just surface detail to you in comparison to your overriding new suspicion/realisation that everything is All About Him, even when you're in dire straits (your mother's illness) and in obvious need of emotional support THERE AND THEN, making you feel constantly like a bit-part player to his self-celebrity attitude, then, this break may well be a blessing in disguise *for you*. Because you're supposed to be EQUAL STARS with demonstrable attitude to match. Another 100% vital relationship requisite.

To be honest, though, I think the fact he's just proven he CAN step up when a neon sign is shoved right up his nose - and instantly so - goes some way to showing he's just apt to be insensitive where 'outgoing' is concerned whilst on the other hand, especially sensitive to 'incoming'. Liable to be a bit too self-centred or self-obsessed, in other words, and needing to be shocked out of it or reminded to 'stay plugged in better' in the first place, if possible... with that tendency possibly made worse during disturbing times such as lately. That's where the break or counsellor comes in... time to reflect, to pay attention to the backlog in the mental in-tray (i.e. read through all the emotional sheets of data without new sheets constantly being laid atop, like they are, so that he can concentrate and see the error of his ways, your ways, and both your ways as a unit).

So that's your first priority - getting him to get and talk real about whether or not he is still, underneath and regardless of all this Power Struggle phase crap, determined to stay with you and make things work, no matter WHERE or where next/one day.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 11 2016 at 19:42
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hallo Soulmate..i needed some Time to think it through what u said..

I was a total idiot.. As u already read, i pretty much figured out what i did the say After.. Felt so Bad because i actually didnt misunderstood i was just cant thinking again i guess..

However, we talked about counselling and we r going to do it. Just have to figure out with the Money.. Not that cheap is it..and he also agreed to do Therapy on his own..woth a male therapist this time..

His friends r coming in may an the Plan ws that he goes back with them and After a while i join..he was thinking back and forth if he should go Alone or Not i said it would b a good idea he said the Same thing but then we had a "nice" Moment and said we would miss Echother too much..

But now, that we had a "Fight" over me Being in his pc(Not Worth mentioning) and eventhough he was a selfish idiot, he didnt apologize yet( the Fight was in the Morning) so i was thinking u know what we have o make tha Trip Happen evn earlier.. But again i have to Check with my Bank Account..

What do u say? The earlier the better? And what if its too expensive right now?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 12 2016 at 18:43
Member since: 19 August 2014
"Hallo Soulmate..i needed some Time to think it through what u said.."

Well, of course you did. I was hardly asking you merely, 'Do you want fries and a milkshake with that', was I. ;-)

*******

The reason it's 'too expensive' is because you no longer have as much disposable/save-able income as you should and would, because he too early on abandoned his opportunity to financially contribute and put down firm roots (as would have built trust) and then went and failed to replace it either before quitting or asap afterwards. Instead, just 'never'. However, I would have thought that if you truly wanted this relationship to succeed, despite the reality you have to deal with being that of, only you have the funds, that you would see it that you can't NOT afford it, even if it meant you and he eating cheaper, simpler food or economising in whatever else ways possible for however many weeks or months. So this very statement of yours proves how torn *you* are by now, as well (unsurprisingly).

In which case, yes, do the low-cost break *first*. As I say, it might well (probably) even remove the need for counselling. Frankly, a break *is* counselling. Self-counselling, followed by team-counselling... forced by circumstance-change and absence/distance-given fresh perspective over everything that's been happening and why and who shouldn't have done what/when/in what way thus needs to avoid repeating. ...Not to mention friends/relatives who can 'lend him their own brains and experiences' for doing so (if his can't manage it alone).

(He needs to talk to his *mum*, if you ask me!)

Oh, and on the topic of friends and your aforementioned fear over the idea of a separation, no matter how small: if his friends/family are so dense that they'd tell him only whatever he wanted to hear rather than the truth about how to and how not to behave around your romantic partner and what consequences to expect, and he *believed* them, then (- Like Attracts Like -) he'd no doubt have come to those self-biased-you-prejudiced conclusions on his own anyway, meaning, you'd have lost nothing but an immature idiot. Not that I myself would have been impressed with the way you behaved, as rendered him right from the off as so however-much insecure, suspicious and unwilling to throw himself in. But at least your actions *nowadays*, including going to this here trouble, prove how that'd just been a demonstration of lack of faith and trust in the idea of a serious relationship with him *at that time* (unsurprisingly, given his inadequate wooing and trust-building techniques). In other words, he had failed to 'sell' himself and the idea of a relationship with him at that point, hence another bloke was even capable of giving a better sales pitch as had you yelling 'I'll take it!' (and then *telling* your boyfriend, rather than just ending it without mentioning another fella, in your bid to force him to step up and 'win you back').

Because of his original 'hunting and slaying' failure, you two have both played stupid games that, despite long over, went and had a lasting, detrimental effect. Well, expecting them not to is a bit like starting a fine painting using tar and urine instead of paint before switching to paint, and then wondering why the lingering stickiness and stink. Right? You two should have cleaned the old picture off before starting the picture again almost from scratch before his moving over and in. But you didn't... So now 'You Are Here', experiencing a relationship that only 60% looks and smells good but is permeated 40% (because of its lingering, insideous erosion ability) with things that shouldn't feature, and *now, belatedly* trying to clear the overly-established picture of the untoward and unacceptable elements, which, albeit still perfectly do-able, is harder and either takes longer or takes a sharper, short shock.

This break effectively is you and he banging your own two heads together... to knock some sense into them (his first, yours second/consequently since he reckons he's the one who gets to lead and dictate) (not if you're under-qualified, you don't).

However, *technically and objectively, leaving love and your own work-ethic-based £ results out of it* - who says YOU have to be the one to fund his trip considering he himself wants it and raised the entire idea and has been behaviourally angling for it for so many months? Can't his family pay for it if he apparently doesn't have a penny to his name? I mean, what does he think would happen if you chucked him out on his ear tomorrow? Does he suppose he'd *swim* back?

To answer that question, let me ask this one: Did he have a well-earning, full-time job and even minimal savings in the run-up to meeting you or moving in?

***********

"But now, that we had a "Fight" over me Being in his pc(Not Worth mentioning)"

Reminds me of a pertinent joke I know:

'Knock-knock?'...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 13 2016 at 21:56
Member since: 27 January 2016
here we go:

we talked about him going to his home country a bit earlier(the wee break) and he said that 1. its a good ideas and he wants to do it, but he would like to combine it with his friends coming here (in MAY!!)to do the 14 hour trip with them..2. its too expensive (and he is not doing the train ride on his own, i guess its too boring for him..) and 3.he has the german course he has to attend...

so thats why yesterday i mentioned the counceling. i asked him if it would be ok for us to meet after my therapy session on tuesday and to set up an appointment for the couples thing ( there r a lot of therapists at that facility) his expression was "sh*t she didnt forget" and "i dont have the energy for that right now" and then he hesitantly agreed. later i asked him why he was hesitanting earlier and he said that (surprise surprise) he doesnt have that much energy for starting something new right now..what does he think how we are gonna get rid of the problems we r having?but im not gonna say that out load-i dont wanna be the neging gf all the time..

talking about being resentful..i know i am ...and its getting worse..why?because i feel unfairly treated) or because i am impatient and its taking sooo long...i rly wish we could get over all of this and shift the focus on the love we have and the stuff that is important? the focus is sooo gone..i can see how he cant (we cant-more him then me but still both of us) look eachother in the eyes from time to time when we talk..i tried doing that more often and also told him that he should try it too..well..

however, i noticed something i was womdering if i already talked about it with u:

everytime i mention him not being able to deeply connect with me like we did before he gets angry and distant..i figured out that we havent managed to have the same connection( best friends-equals) since we met in person..i get that the equality has to be established by him contributing like i am (financially) but it kind of seems that i am seeing it (when i happen to have a clear mind) like u, meaning he is the one who has to prove something and him seeing it like i have to prove my worthiness..

what is also bothering me and what i noticed like one or two months ago is that since he same here i felt very responsible ( like we all know by now) but i forgot about myself..i cant remember the last time i went and bought a shirt/jewelry/ANYTHING that made me express myself in that way or made me feel a bit prettier..i get so happy when i see him getting something he likes, the happiness in his eyes makes me feel happy too..

there was actually one day were we dicided to get me some winter stuff because i needed them badly..so we made a trip out of the city and went to a large outlet mall..however, we ended up buying him designer stuff and we didnt have enough time to get me anything..so in the bus back home i started crying..makes me sad and ashamed thinking about that situation..i was so happy that we bought him all that stuff but i was also hoping for him to step up for me (how stupid am i?..*rolling eyes*)in my defense i was an idiot and it was a rough time..i didnt know what i was doing and why i was feeling like i was and some old fears took over (being left and helpless)..

that chapter is closed tho..

so, to answer your questions, he didnt have any savings we "split" the cost with what ever he had and he doesnt have family who could give him the money ( and there is also this thing called pride and ego..) and his mom passed away some years ago.. :(

ps.:

"Reminds me of a pertinent joke I know:

'Knock-knock?'..."

-love your methaphores and jokes and i bet their r on point but a lot of the time my english isnt that good..need an explaination :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 16 2016 at 11:13
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hey Soulmate,

Would like to have your Input..

U didnt already given up on me, did u :P

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 16 2016 at 13:36
Member since: 27 January 2016
im just pretty depressed right now, everytime i ask what he thinks we should do break/therapy..he says hes gonna look for a ride to his country..doenst do it..and now that stuff has build up even more its making me worry so much..

i feel like im losing him..

on monday we went to the doc's with my mom and because i wasnt able to show how shitty i felt after the appointment (my mom was relieved..so i didnt wanna show how said i was) we were standing at the tram station and i rly thought he was looking at some random girl..(he wasnt tho) and i was rly angry the whole ride home..

the situation with my mom made me so crazy at that moment..

when we arrived home i was waiting for him to say smth but he didnt instead he came to the bed kissed me(he thought i was angry at my mom and wanted to give me some space..) and then i said didnt u wanna say smth..and so it started..

he told me he feels like he did when he was living with his mom:

-depressed

-wanting to take drugs

-just play games

-and he is putting on weight

i got some info for couples therapy.. but he said he doenst know how much that is gonna help because that day for example it was just me (like my issue..)

i said its a lot about communication and misunderstandings..

i feel like ive been fucking up a lot and know he is giving up..

i miss him a lot..and he misses me..it feels like we have to be our own ppl again so we can see the other person again...know what i mean? but i dont want him leaving me..

know its strange again after the appointment..im so scrared that i fucked up for good..

i even said to him in my all sad mood:

"i thought u would understand me"

and i wanted to explain that us not sleeping the whole night (did a whole nighter) + the appointment drove me crazy but he didnt even let me and said "i dont care" before i could say anything so i told him he should take a walk and after the second time he was all angry and went out..

he feels pushed and like he cant do anything (we r checking eachothers histories-but that was ok with both of us) he has to watch every step he is taking..and im getting more and more depressed..

this is a sh*tty cicle..but so unnecessary(!!!!!)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 16 2016 at 16:07
Member since: 19 August 2014
'Scuse delay!

(Never mind the joke, now - the moment's gone. But what's this oh-so-unimportant incident with his PC all about? If it'd been so unimportant, why mention it at all? Clearly it was important enough to have caused another tiff, so...? You wanting to discover any clues to enlighten you over where you currently stood, was it?)

Anyway, that and the tiff aside, it's as obvious as the nose on my face, reading all his laughably nonsensical attempts to put this obstruction/that obstruction/this silly condition in the way of taking a break this very month, that he does not want *any* break full-stop. He says May but that's just him trying to put it off, hoping it'll have become a moot point by then. He's too transparent. So let's call it an established fact that he doesn't want one, ever. (He's probably paranoid that, five minutes of having the place back to yourself and the suddenly greater sense of financial freedom, you'll decide you'd rather be single again - that or some man might come sniffing around in his absence - and might end up ditching him over the phone. Alternatively, he might have wanted to retain that "just-in-case" control over ending it all to himself...if suddenly there arose a need to end it, I mean. Or all three (probably).)

The counselling, however, he *did* say yes to. I mean, hesitation, making faces, having hoped it'd only been 'in the moment' hot air... (typical man out of comfort and control zone response)... Who cares, when the important fact to note was, he still said Yes as opposed to all the ludicrous resistance towards the break idea.

Couples counselling it is, then...if you two really can't find a way to start discussing contentious issues like a team.

(And yes, given his situation, you *will* have to be the funder for this and other things for the time being, still.)

...But then, next I see you starting to try to rev yourself back up to full resentment and hard-heartedness by re-hashing all the past unfairnesses and insults (even mere oversights). Is that because you don't want counselling? Or is it because you'd latched onto the idea of a break in order to 'kill two birds with one (attractive) stone', i.e. improve relations *and* take a much-needed spell of peace and quiet and pleasing yourself?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 16 2016 at 16:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
Damn. That response was to your earlier message dated 13th.

Wait up and let me read the new stuff...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 16 2016 at 16:38
Member since: 19 August 2014
"im just pretty depressed right now, everytime i ask what he thinks we should do break/therapy..he says hes gonna look for a ride to his country..doenst do it..and now that stuff has build up even more its making me worry so much.."

Well, why do you keep bringing it up? Surely you could SEE he was more open to the idea of counselling, without my having had to point it out?

Just go ahead and make an appointment. If, come the day/evening he refuses to go with you, well, then - you'd finally know where you stood, wouldn't you (- he just doesn't want to suffer *any* hassle, even if it could save the relationship), and could take the session for yourself in order to help you insist he leave your life and home so that you could find a man who was prepared to do the work of a relationship as well as take benefit from it. Simple, yes (despite upsetting)?

I doubt it'll come to that, though, what with his finding the idea of leaving you vulnerable to offers or himself vulnerable to getting ditched too off-putting. I think it's just uncooperativeness for the purposes of delay tactics again. I mean - a ride back to his home country? OH, BE REAL! (Give him a pair of rollerskates and also a rubber dingy with which to latch onto the back of someone's speedboat, LOL.)

Maybe he WAS looking at some girl? Deliberately. This is, after all, looking very much to me like Poker... Who'll fold first, who holds the Ace card, all that nonsense. After all, if he's losing your heart then, hooking you back in by the ego is probably better than nothing. Ignore it.

He's just trying every trick in the book to sweep all the past acrimony under the carpet and pretend it never happened. Typical immature bloke. Hence why, because his kiss was met with you bringing stuff back out from under the rug - bam! - he goes into another hissy-fit and sulk.

"he told me he feels like he did when he was living with his mom:"

THERE IT IS! This 'man' has not been trained in how to be the 'perfect' house guest nor operate in ways that are helpful to building a relationship and home with a woman. Obviously he's hell-bent on avoiding all emotional issues and talks and thinks he can pretty much behave as he damn well pleases, and his mother didn't just let him get away with it YET also didn't go far enough with *not* letting him... hence, now he's back in virtually the same cohabitational set-up, he's trying to rebel and resist to the extent where, like her (or so he hopes), you'll end up so run ragged that you throw your hands up, saying, 'Ah, f*ckit, I'll just do my own thing and ignore him' (ah f*ckit, being the point).

If you've been 'f*cking-up' a lot lately then whose fault partly *is* that? Have you just got PMT? Or is the truth that he's put you into such a state of insecurity that thinking he's eyeing up another woman seems a perfectly logical suspicion?

It's the latter. So he can grow up and take some responsibility like a man if he wants the *perks* of one.

This guy has got a sh*t work ethic and that is that is that. Yeah, well, let's see if that increases if he finally realises and accepts that this is NOT some game. Not for you. It's 'do or die'. You need someone mature enough to just DISCUSS WILLINGLY, CALMLY AND RATIONALLY with you (or at least where humanly do-able).

But he's not giving up on *you*/you and he, he's just trying to avoid the work out of a belief it's unnecessary, will all blow over, blah-blah.

"it feels like we have to be our own ppl again so we can see the other person again...know what i mean? but i dont want him leaving me.."

Translation: I want my garden back but I don't want to have to hire a tree-surgeon to remove the ruddy great trunk that's fallen bang-slap in the middle of it.

Well, then, how do you think you're going to get your garden back? A herd of very hungry chipmonks? A gale-force bluster of wind?

So here we suddenly see how much you two actually *do* have in common, don't we. Neither of you is prepared to do what it (scarily) takes to stop the rot, clear the deck and start again afresh (with - yes - new appreciation for one another).

Listen, so is rain "unnecessary". Only it isn't. It's just NOT LIKED. Do you want flowers in your garden or don't you?

Try this: "I've booked a first session with a couples counsellor for Xday next week at X-o'-clock. Are you going to come with me so you can ensure I don't accidentally misrepresent you or anything you've said, or do you trust me to advocate you and get every single fact right?

;-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 18 2016 at 15:53
Member since: 27 January 2016
"THERE IT IS! This 'man' has not been trained in how to be the 'perfect' house guest nor operate in ways that are helpful to building a relationship and home with a woman. Obviously he's hell-bent on avoiding all emotional issues and talks and thinks he can pretty much behave as he damn well pleases, and his mother didn't just let him get away with it YET also didn't go far enough with *not* letting him... hence, now he's back in virtually the same cohabitational set-up, he's trying to rebel and resist to the extent where, like her (or so he hopes), you'll end up so run ragged that you throw your hands up, saying, 'Ah, f*ckit, I'll just do my own thing and ignore him' (ah f*ckit, being the point)"

any suggestions how to handle this?we r having this problem over and over again...

yesterday i came home and on my way home he already told me that he is on the pc again( hasnt cleaned for days but he is cooking more often) and is skyping with a guy he met in the game(funfunfun)i immidiatly went to the market (i just didnt wanna be home already because i knew what was waiting for me..) and just spend some time there and got stuff that i didnt even need.. and then i came home and he senced that smth was up and asked me i said ( in a not nagging way-he says i started nagging..) that it would be nice if we would mix it up again and spend some quality time together and BOOOOM he got overwhelmed said like " why r u bringing this up again " throughing his arms in the air " i thought we talked about this and now u r dismissing everything we talked about and the agreement that thats how im disstressing" and i thought WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE?!?!?! he asked me and i even chose my words wisly but that didnt change anything..he got so overwheled...

than we agreed that we didnt wanna fight and we ate ..after some time the modd was strange and he went to his pc and called his friend..

then i called up my best friend and we simultaneously talked on skype with ppl and it got kind of loud.. i said turn yours down and he said the same thing to me..i was so pissed..we were just talking about him maybe spending less time on that stupid pc and the first thing he does is call up a random person..

i feel like i have to beg and beg and as u know nothing happens..and yes i am bagging again...because im in this shitty mood and im scared that this is gonna distroy us..however i went to bed and couldnt fall asleep..he was still doing his thing *click click click*..didnt help the mood..after hours he came to bed he looked at me and i just wanted everything to be ok again i wanted to be close to him and enjoy the moment..he cuddled and it was rly nice...and i said how much i enjoyed it..he said the same thing..

but why at night? why could he do that? like that was very unexpected to be honest..if he wants intimacy he touches me so long until i agree to have sex with him...but thats it..well ok maybe the fact that it was my first day of my period and i was in pain a bit brings some sence in..but do i have to suffer for him to step up? wanting to make me feel good and apprectiated? does that rly have to happen?...

what is also maybe worth mentioning is that i explaind to him why i reacted like it did after the docs appointment with my mom:

i just said that what i though it was that the situation with my mom (and that i was not dealing with it) blew up emotionally and that i just started feeling very sad..and from that it all resulted..

and that i have so much recentment in me already..every time(and that seems to be my only priority sometimes "him being distant"..which is making me mad..) he is letting go of the distance i start feeling that something is missing and then yeah..a lot of old feelings come up..

a day after that i woke up (so yesterday) and i found a note in the bathroom( a poem) my first reaction ( which is very scary) "why did he do this?it has to be fake niceness"and then another one in the kitchen saying he packed me some sweets for work and i love u..it did make my day a bit nicer..

so we spend the day chatting from time to time while i was at work and then he started mentioning the gaming and the skyping with that guy..and my mood was shit..

however this morning i stood up and went to work...and then at work we were writing and then he senced smth and asked "whats wrong":

me:

Ok honey

Sounds cozy

him:

was bay

baby

what's wrong?

me:

Nothing bby

Im tired

Was nice yesterday btw kiss emoticon

him:

was really nice.. kiss emoticon

cuddles and bussi haha

me:

Sry about No Sex honey

Id like is to have more

him:

Its okay baby, im not mad or anything

me too..

Was nice yesterday tho

i still enjoyed it

me:

Me too

him:

missed giving you a bussi.. kiss emoticon

me:

Me too hahaha

Yesterday tho

Your Reaction to me mentioning that yesterday was a bit too much for me honey.. I didnt quite understand it

him:

Yeah, i just felt like you brought alot of bad mood, and that what we talked about, with understanding and progress got swiped off the table.. Sorry for reacting like i did, but i just felt very misunderstood..

me:

Yeah i get that

I didnt mean it at all like that

him:

You know i love oyu, and that i do want us tob e close, and spend time together..

me:

Yeah i know that honey

I love u too

I have so much recentment in me right now.. Its take na tall on me..

I hate it..

I had to Tell u tho

him:

i know you do..

i can feel it..

me:

Id like it to be gone tho

I hope u know that too

Its Not fun.. Haha

him:

definatively not haha

...

what do you neeD?

me:

I dont know honey.. Well what im doing is thinking Twice when something comes up

And then idk

I think Couples Therapy is Gonna help

me:

Sooo

him:

soooo hahaha

okay, well

i told you, im in for it

As soon as we can. kiss emoticon

im trying not to be resntful tho.. I know we can't help it always, and me neither, but we are gonna kill things with it..

me:

We r..

me:

Sry Boss was here

The "sooo" wasnt meant for u honey

I wanted to say something

Its starting to hurt me a lot.. And id like to get rid of it..

him:

same here.. Its VERY heavy..

me:

Yeah..im sorry about that..

Trying to find a Way out.. I was thinking that it would be nice if we would i dont know just spend some Time together or what Ever..

What do u think?

him:

Yeah, we should spend more time together, BUT

its not gonna fully help this

because its about resentment, anger and not being very openminded/forgiving towards the other person..

I felt like you got mad at me yesterday for talking to that guy, and that made me very angry and dissapointed..

Like you've spoken with your friends alot of times, and as soon as i speak with someone, you get mad..

me:

I was Mad because we didnt resolve the issue and then u just Went to your pc..

him:

And then you starting to play music, in the middle of it too..

But the mood got good again

and then you started it again after...

me:

But what should i do when u r doing your thing? Then im Gonna do Mine right? I mean we didnt rly resolve it u Felt like ive dismissed everything we talked about and then just ignored it an Went to do your thing

him:

Yeah, but that's not doing your thing

the thing you did yesterday

you fully did that to get back at me

like starting to play music, when im talking to another person..

me:

I didnt for me it Felt like u didnt take anything serious i said and just thought "omg that again" eventhough i just wanted to change Things up a bit..

I started doing smth i Felt like doing After i got dismissed

Like Listening to Music and talking to my friend

him:

I dont like that, and i wouldn't do that

Just because we are mad at each other, doesnt mean that we should be disrespectful to each other

me:

I know and im Not being distespecful

That is what i am thinking too

Everytime

him:

There is a difference

You're getting mad at me because i dont wanna fight/discuss/talk everytime you do

but if you're mad at me, you do stuff like that.. Trying to get to me

me:

Thats Not true

him:

By going to your moms, doing the music thing and entirely doing your own thing

me:

U r doig that without Being Mad

him:

Tell me how i am, what i am doing?

Because i am playing? I'm not doing that to get make you mad

me:

I go to sleep u keep Playing until Late hours eventho smtimes i cant fall asleep

U r having your own rythm and thats ok but i have a schedule and i asked u so many Times to "help" me with going earlier to bed so in Not that exhausted the whiole week

In the beginning u said ok

Then it didnt matter anymore.. Im Not telling u bring me to bed

Im just asking for for example No music that Late etc..

him:

I am asking you everytime i play music at night

me:

I didnt feel like that was too much to ask for

him:

if its okay with you..

me:

I just Felt very direspected the past months regarding some stuff.. And i Never wanted to react to that or to get back at u

But i guess that created a lot of recentment

Always tried to say "No its ok" but its Not ok everytime..

Im sorry that it came off like i wanted to get back at u yesterday

But i mentioned one thing Hoping its Not Gonna blow up again because it wasnt that Big of a deal

And then it Blew up again..

him:

I can't sleep at 9, im sorry, but i can't.. I mute the computer so it doesnt annoy you. I know that you have to get up early, but im not trying to make you stay up longer, i did that before, but i stopped that. You have to tell me, if stuff is annoying you, instead of letting it blow up on me, you do stuff that annoys me to, but i am telling you. But the thing yesterday, lets be honest, i couldn't breath without it annoying you. And when it happens like that, i have NO idea what to do what so ever

me:

That i Not fair

him:

We have different daily rythms, and that not just atm, we had that ALL the time we spoke

v

I never said come to ned with me

him:

and thats not gonna change, when im in the chefs industry..

I didnt say you did?

me:

I never said come to bed with me

him:

i didnt

say

you

did

me:

Why r u saying i cant go to bed at 9 i just cant

What for?

him:

Because im trying to say that im not on the computer to hurt you, i'm saying that because im not getting up at 6-7 atm, i had jobs where i did, but not now, so i can't sleep that early..

me:

Thats rly unfair saying it like that

him:

Im not trying to offend you with saying that

me:

Im Not saying come and sleep with me at the Same Time

him:

I didnt say that...

Seriously

me:

No but i just dont understand why u would say i cant go to bed at 9

I never asked u

An saying it like that is overexaggerating

I just for think that is necessary right now

him:

Because i CAN'T

simple as that

no agenda

no nothing

i just stated, that i can't sleep at 9, there for i am on the computer

you mentioned that you thought it was disrespectful that i was on my computer

me:

Its just Not necessary mentioning it thats all

Forget it

My Boss asked me to work tomorrow

So im Meeting in to get rid of some minus

him:

Okay..

me:

I dont understand why it Blew up that much yesterday honey like rly.. I was so excited to see u and be with u and then that

U always think i wanna Start smth

And i just wanna get to some mutual understanding

him:

Because could feel that you were mad, and i asked you, because i wanted to know, but when you stepped in the door, it was like darkness filled the room

and we barely greeted each other, before you said "im sick of you playing"

me:

No! Thats Not what happened

him:

We just spoke about it some days ago, and i told you, this is not permanent, stop pressuring me.

me:

See u misunderstood

him:

And that that started, as soon as we met

me:

I wasnt doing that

U wanna know how it Looked to me?

Cause u r drawing auch a nice picture

I came in and i Felt like u just wanted to finish everything up and then go to Your Virtual World again..

And then i just said ok so i just wanted to mix it up and it was like i Dropped a bomb

Like this is how i feel

This is smth i would like

And i cant say it without u flipping out and sayin "omg Not again"

What should i think then?

I never said stop Playing

But u making some Strange friends with ppl from the inet that r Not Even Sharing the Same Humor atleast instead of thinking ok there is someone who i could actually spend some Time with

If it would be ok between us i wouldnt mind is spending time with Other ppl

I would also go see my Friends More often and everything would be ok but like this its just like i have to be at home because its nice when in home like u said

But u r still Gonna do Gaming and some stuff that make sure i cant be Part of

him:

I did wanna finish it up, no doubt about that, because i didnt wanna hear you nag about the same topic that you've been nagging about the last last couple of weeks, and also because i am SICk of fighting, we do that ALL the time, and sometimes we do, and we spend hours on it, but sometimes, excuse me, but i am just not in the mood, to have my mood ruined. Some strange friends? Very openminded.. I have things in common with him, and i do have some sympathi for him, because he is struggling. He's an okay guy besides that he's struggling. I'm not calling your friends weird, am i? When you make friends with colleagues that are being bullied by girls, or a guy who's so pussy whipped that its embarassing, yet still choose to take advice from him. And i never judged abdul either, just because he's not like everyone else. I don't bitch when you skype with all your guy friends, or go visit sushi or what ever. I have nothing that i do on my own here. I have my course, and now my game. That's it. Cut me some slack. You're the one who mentioned us needing to have something that was our own, and not everything together, because we spend the last 7 months only us, besides from when YOU! Where with your friends, or colleagues. So yes, i am gonna keep playing, and your not gonna ruin that. I feel like distressing abit atm, with playing, and when its so shitty between us, and the way that you're acting is straight up scaring me and confusing me as fuck, then yes i am gonna flee into my virtual world.

Ta Sha

2:55pm

Ta Sha

Why do u feel so attacked?

I wasnt about to Bag wtf r u talking about now?

U asked me

And i answered

him:

Because i have no idea who you are, or where i have you. And your saying stuff to put me down

dissing the friends i make?

telling me to flee into my virtual world?

me:

U r overreacting

I just answered what was up

Thats it

And u thought i was Gonna Start a Fight

I didnt Even wanna say it

Like El

U always had something against me going somewhere

Always

Started Commenting on my collegues

And when i Mention that it would be nice to mix it up then im Nagging?

him:

I commented on Christian, because i felt like he crossed me. If this is freaking you out, me interacting with my guy friends haha.. I would like to see what would actually happen if i had girlfriends

jesus

me:

Why r u like this now?

him:

Because you are pissing me off. Big time. And because i have no idea where i have you, and what to make of your approaches.. Especially after this week. It has shown me that you wont let me do my thing, because it leaves you alone, and it makes you think that i dont like you. And i kind of sensed that when i interact with other people you get mad at me

me:

Im Freaking out cause u r interacting with friends? Thats bullshit.. Like rly this is blieb up Way too much

Thats Not true

him:

It is... Me wanting to spend a day with my friends, which i haven't seen for 7 months, alone. Made you act out..

me:

What?

I said it was ok

Wtf

Stop twisting it

him:

I ain't twisting shit. I had to tell you like 5 times, that it was because i wanted to spend some guy time with them..

me:

I even said its ok if u would so your thing all These days

him:

Well, the thing is, you make me feel bad about all of that stuff.

Make me feel like im doing you wrong all the time..

me:

Ok good to know

Its Not cool at all that when u r Pissed u Start digging for stuff that u cant wen use against me

Saying" haha what r u Gonna do when i Start Taking to Girls"

Like so disrespectful

U just Felt overwhelmed again thats it and know u r making me Look Bad.. If u need that right now than i guess u need it

This is the reason im recentful because sentences like that" haha..." Who does that?

him:

Stop with the saying i am overwelmed and that i get scared. I get PISSED at YOU, and the way you are approaching me, its very ego

When you wanna fight, or talk, you wanna do that, and it doesnt matter what i want, at all

If i turn it down, then you get mad at me

Say i never wanna talk, that im scared, and that im fleeing

me:

I didnt wanna Fight yesterday

U asked me and i told u and then its me Nagging.. Like how is that me Nagging i even watched my language so i dont seem like im Nagging and still. However i say it its Gonna be Nagging to u because u dont wanna change shit

Im just saying what im seeing

I said im Not Gonna pressure u anymore and i thought i wasnt but now i can see that this Topic should be Fully of the Table

him:

And how is it gonna get off the table? By you having your way, and me qutting the game?

me:

No i mean thats a tabu Topic now

him:

It got turned into something really bad, yeah..

me:

It did

I dont get it tho it was Never Ever i Intention to Start telling u this and that i just wanted a normal Peacefull evening

him:

If you wanted a normal peaceful evening, then dont come in the door in a bad mood, and tell me that you

're sick of me playing

Yes, speak your mind, but when its the same that has been our main topic the last time, then its not very productive..

me:

I didnt say it like that

Thats war u Heard i said i wanted to nix it up Every now and then

Thats it

This is what i meant with its Communication

It Blew up complitaly which wasnt my Intention it just did because i said something and i knew how i meant it and u Understood it how u thought i meant it

him:

It can't be just me that feels attacked that often, it just can't.

me:

i dont even know what to say like rly..i dont care if u wanna do this and that and so on u can do what ever u want and im happy for u when u r having fun..i just wanted to mix it up because i thought it would actually help and thats the only thing thats it

i get upset when we havent spend quality time (and it seems like u dont know that we have to do that and make an afford) and u get excited about some dude from the inet..

him:

You're playing too, skyping with your friends too (having fun) you're always tired ( i know that you work, but all the other stuff you choose to do, is not necessary. So for us to spend time, it requires both of us

Ofc we can't when i play, but when you asked me if we should go to the movies, i didnt hesitate

at all

its because we dont make plans either

but then you just blame me, for not "understanding" that we need to spend time togher, and because you want me to initiate it

me:

we dont have to we can just do smth like idk play cards or what ever we dont have to make plans

him:

Its about both of us. I do wanna spend time with you

me:

honestly, i cant be the one who asks for stuff anymore..i cant ask to bring some change in and then be rejected over and over again..

him:

Youre NOT

but just mentioning, it doesnt do shit

WE can make some plans, and do something

I am not withholding that

you're making it sound like im saying no all the time

im not, you just dont ask that often

me:

no but now its tabu

him:

And ofc it shouldnt be only you asking if we should do stujff

im not saying that

but dont make it sound like youre fighting an endless fight everyday, begging me to do stuff, and im just turning you down, thats not the case..

me:

why r u saying u want us to spend some time? when u never initiated?

why isnt this coming from u?

id like to know what its about? what is behind all of this polker game

poker*

him:

Poker game? I'm not playing any poker game, but how much did you initiate?

You talked about stuff

i said yes

we can do that

nothing happend

me:

like? and if u say movies the last week..i know what happened there

poker because

its a who has the ace game

like a power fight

him:

Talking in general..

It is, or more like a childrens game

me:

ok honey

u know what

its ok..

fuck it ok

i just wanted to to u know that what i meant yesterday was no way to bring somethins up so we can figh

it was only a suggestion

just for u to think about and maybe concider

consider

thats it..

me:

and in the mean time im just gonna get me a hobby so i dont think about asking u to leave the pc..( that was very sarcastic..) but yeah i dont have a clue how to do differently either i can tell u in a normal way like i did yesterday (i wasnt nagging) how i would like us to spend some time together or im just gonna mind my own business

him:

i told you, i DO wanna spend time with you.. I didnt say other wise. There is alot of stuff in it. The doing or own thing, was there before the gaming was.

me:

ok honey

____________

so hope its pl that i copied this..i just wanted to show how it escalated..

any thoughts

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 18 2016 at 16:10
Member since: 27 January 2016
"But what's this oh-so-unimportant incident with his PC all about?"

i was sick, so i stayed at home last week.

when we got up we were talking about some breakfast..the first thing he did tho like every day is starting his pc...well at some point after an hour or so i started saying that im hungry..i mentioned it a couple of times and then he said ok im in game now but im gonna go when i finished..i started playing too before that just so u know..and when he wanted to take of i asked if i could finish the game on his pc because my laptop s*cks..he said yes and also said that he is not gonna be away for long and is gonna start cooking right away afte he arrives..i said ok but that i was already "in game"..

so when he came home i told him that i needed 15 more minutes and that he could start without me being done with the game(u cant pause it-its online gaming) and then he started saying well now that i have to wait for u i couldve also played some more but i cant because u r sitting on my pc..and i said its just 15mins im gonna be done soon..

well he then got mad and i left the game before i was done to help him in the kitchen with the food...i got mad too because it seemed my games dont have priorities but his do...

so we didnt talk the whole day basically because i felt like he had to apologize and vice versa..

the next day or so i did apologize that i was stressing him to get the food eventhough i wasnt "ready" to eat..

so thats that..

*sry about the language in the chat btw*

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 20 2016 at 18:33
Member since: 19 August 2014
"any suggestions how to handle this?"

Yes. Tell him you need a man with a bit of emotional maturity and team-player attitude and, if that's not him, to do the decent thing in making you available again for attracting one.

Grounds for firing his a*se:

1. Has given up cleaning in favour of cooking? My, his generosity and sense of obligation for the fact that only *you* are suffering in lasting ways from this set-up and situation, is truly overwhelming [swoon-swoon]!

Doing that is called, Gives with one hand whilst taking away with the other.

Everything a member of a relationship does that contributes to the smooth-running of this relationship is an *investment*. Clearly and revealingly, he's intent on continually keeping it below a certain critical amount. And yet you yourself are *trapped* into having to invest, *way* over and above what he invests or what women are normally expected to invest, with no other choice open to you (because you can't make him sleep on the streets nor deprive him of food, etc.)! How is *that* fair? The situation of neither your faults demands you do/give XXXXXX but he can turn the situation to his advantage whereby it demands he give/do only X??? And if you point that out, suddenly you're a nag?

2. And now you're even avoiding going home (and *not* deliberately as part of 're-training')! Even if it means BUYING (wasting money) extra time when you can ill afford it on top of your other (incl. non-mandatory, purely generous-hearted) commitments.

Tell me again how this relationship is good for you?

The truth is, this boy is intent on getting this relationship all on his own terms and sod your needs and feelings. That you'd been *letting* him is why he loves you, or rather, why he WITHHOLDS love the minute you seemingly aren't prepared to carry on this way or signal to him that you're struggling.

(3. WHAT 'everything' did you discuss and agree that he claimed you were 'now' dismissing?)

4. And - what? - you're not allowed to override prior agreements but he *is*? To wit: "we were just talking about him maybe spending less time on that stupid pc and the first thing he does is call up a random person".

He doesn't even like you taking benefit of the exact same privilege *he* helps himself to when it comes to seeking counsel and/or distraction of a friend!... hence trying to drown you out!.... despite *you're* the only one *paying* for these privileges of his!

Selfishness, Dual Standards, Hypocrisy, Cowardice (fleeing into the ether the minute there's any emotional work to be done), Un-cooperativeness/Playing Dumb *all the way*!

5. ".after hours he came to bed he looked at me and i just wanted everything to be ok again i wanted to be close to him and enjoy the moment..he cuddled and it was rly nice...and i said how much i enjoyed it..he said the same thing.."

Translation: I can't stay mad or stand up for myself, even using the indignation he's roused in me as my back-up turbo, if it means I'll not get my soothing cuddle.

Listen, you wouldn't be so desperate for a cuddle in the *first* place if he weren't busily putting you in that desperate frame of mind! Because, the way he behaves is tantamount to - if you *did* deny him food - rendering him starving hungry and then walking in with a sandwich and 'saying', 'Drop it or the sandwich gets it!'.

6. And then we get, when he plays music or whatever other noises late into the weekday night - even if it keeps you awake, either from the noise itself or the fact it keeps him and your sense of resentment towards him at that point too squarely on your radar for relaxation - that's okay, but whenever *you* do it, it's not.

He should either *compromise* and adjust down his going to bed time (he's not telling me 10 or 11pm - as would have him naturally waking earlier thus with more *productive daytime hours* - wouldn't be do-able) or be considerate towards you in that situation EVEN IF YOU'D SAID, NO, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO MAKE ALL THE NOISE YOU LIKE. You shouldn't *have* to say it's okay (when you'd rather be free to be an impolite hostess and say it's not). HE SHOULD *KNOW* IT'S NOT, thus not even try it on (by asking) and pre-emptively remove your need to say *ANYTHING*, helped by the fact even an idiot is aware you have to be up early and fit for a long day's work. And there's the difference that makes *all* the difference.

Dual standards.

How cushy for him. He can upset you and later get 'punished' with a cuddle. And he can TAKE your generosity of spirit, specifically, your attempts to give him generous leeway despite you'd rather tell him to cut it out, but not return it in terms of taking the same sort of initiative. Ergo if you've basically communicated, 'no, it's okay, you can play your music, etc.' despite you *or anyone* would rather he didn't, he doesn't extend that same courtesy toward you, MEANING, you've either effectively got to choose to lower your standards to his (no, no, NO) to cease feeling constantly hard-done-by and disappointed (and hearing nothing but excuses and over-exaggerations in reaction), or keep them where they are but continue feeling your boyfriend is inadequate for your needs (OR become a female Hitler, which just isn't you).

Loath to step up in so many areas both normal and according to what a person like you wants and needs, he is indeed attempting to drag you down to his own level...helped by colouring Black perfectly innocent acts on your part (to justify his actings-out done in spite)...but then, in the recipient position, DOESN'T LIKE IT. So that, all in all, translates to, You give me this, this, this and this / I give you barely this.

One set of rules for him, another, entirely, for you.

I've just seen for myself - he's a bloody-minded idiot...and I can't coach you, let alone from this distance, because you're too far away from a position of being help-able and hence continually fold at the slightest pressure, thereby undoing all your good work (coming home late, mimicking his own self-comforting technique (ref your friend), etc) and privilege-taking. But I wouldn't even, at a time like this, *expect* you to be capable!...

It's perfectly simple: your mother is on her way out and, like would anyone, expecting your quasi husband to [1] show empathy and sensitivity and making allowances for the situation and [2] prove he can fill her gap and then some. Perfectly normal, perfectly warrantable, perfectly understandable and expectable....You have to make allowances for *him*, don't you? He either can't or is refusing. But then, when you basically shove a neon 10ft sign in his face (explaining to him why you're naturally feeling insecure at the moment *anyway*, like he's a toddler with no concept) - *then* he delivers. Sort-of. Or SEEMINGLY. With hearts & flowers and basically a*se-licking, rather than just open, honest talks, admissions, apologies AND PROPER ENDEAVOURS TO CHANGE OR ADJUST THESE BEHAVIOURS.

************

This is case of 'So he loves me, but WHAT loves me?!'. Answer, a little boy with zero clue of how to treat and behave around a [1] woman, [2] a housemate, [3] one who's already grieving *as well as* trying to deal with someone whom apparently believes only *his* problems, despite significantly less grave, demand airings and attention and rectification.

Never *mind* the floweries and other blah-blahs...Cooking now, but instead of cleaning - jeezuz bloody louizuz! Have you halved your chores at work as would halve the salary on which he completely depends thus halved the lifestyle to which you've allowed him to grow accustomed, have you?...and then tried to 'compensate' him for it purely by writing him flowery notes and calling him Baby, Honey, Squidgy Boo-Boos...? NO. What you provide the relationship with- what you invest, *IS REAL* (not to mention, edible and sleep-able on and comfortable as opposed to the distinct opposite).

Of *course* he enjoys the cuddles, etc. He gets them for ZERO TOLL-FEE! "You know i love oyu, and that i do want us tob e close, and spend time together"...and that's *all* he wants to have to do! Like you yourself said: fun, fun, fun (and nothing but). What is he - Thirteen, still?

******************************************************************************************************

Nobody "knows" someone loves them UNLESS THAT PERSON *SHOWS* THEM. With thought, consideration, willingness to compromise/negotiate to keep them relatively happy, sympathy, empathy, patience, generosity, positive-mindedness, respectful address, appreciation............ CONSISTENTLY. SUSTAINEDLY. AS A MATTER OF COURSE. WITHOUT HAVING TO BE ASKED, PERSUADED, SOLD TO, BEGGED OR COERCED.

still?

******************************************************************************************************

Yeah, why *doesn't* he go to bed and get up the same time as you (i.e. the *real* time, not a deliberate, non-reasonable caricature of it) when he knows that'd take a load off you? Maybe if he did he could have the motivation and energy to play Housekeeper - PROPER Housekeeper - to your Man About The Office. You even stepped up to *that* - keeping a man like he's a woman and you're a man. What's *he* stepped up to?

I see one person doing 80-90% of the rowing, said boat going round and round in circles, but only *one* occupant getting sick and dizzy.

He's badly taking you for granted and taking advantage, behaving like a spoiled, inconsiderate, thoughtless, disrespectful, defiant, rebellious take-take-take, teenage *son* who owes you nothing. So - oh, 'he loves you, alright. But WHAT loves you?!'. And does he enhance your practical or emotional welfare and lifestyle or does he moreover impede and erode it. You know the answer already.

And when you actually point this out to him, does he cease? Or does he just come up with loads of excuses or bat back with things that aren't even valid missiles (despite he tries to paint them as such)? Again - answer already. You nutshelled it yourself:

"U always think i wanna Start smth

And i just wanna get to some mutual understanding".

and again/better, with:

"However i say it its Gonna be Nagging to u because u dont wanna change shit"

PS:

"So for us to spend time, it requires both of us

Ofc we can't when i play,"

Oh, how 24/7 convenient is this rule of his and-only-his that, without pre-consultation, he's enforced into this little society of two!

********

Seemingly, to his mind, attempts to get some mutual understanding *is* "starting" negativity. Well - news for him - *he's* the nag. Because he forces you to have to again and again AND AGAIN ask him for things he should know to deliver automatically (as is par for the adult relationship course) and that you shouldn't have to ask for EVEN THE ONCE.

As for 'pussy whipped'? What an exceedingly revealing choice of phrase. What did I tell you right from the start? His idea of not being controlled ("pussy-whipped"!) by you is his having too much power and control over *you*.

And PS: "This is the reason im recentful because sentences like that" haha..." Who does that?"

I'll tell you who does that: someone who knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on (as opposed to you who do). It's called, "Shut-up or fidelity maybe, possibly, who knows?, will get it!".

Break, break, break - adopt the Break position!

*********

As for your second post: You're sick and instead of taking care of you, first he's just sat on his-sorry, YOUR computer (courtesy of your paying for the service) rather than goes out shopping straight away ...and despite you meantime do what *he* constantly does (get sucked into a game), he has grounds for anger and resentment where in that same sort of circumstance you're not allowed to react similarly???

DISGUSTING! (Cancel the internet!)

Why don't you just take in some homeless person? Maybe then you'd get some of the *basics* of a relationship if not the actual salary or perks?!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 20 2016 at 21:25
Member since: 27 January 2016
Here is what we r doing After him saying that this is a unhealthy relationship:

He said e Needs some Space so some Time Alone.. So i said go to Your Country for 10days.. Now we r looking or flights.. Well it is unhealthy for Both of us right now..

He feels Pressured and like he lost himself (ofc he is he move here Way too early in our relationship and left his itentity thinking im Gonna Folk that void) by me.. He says i love u but i also feel like i have to..

Thank u for trying to help me.. Im in a Shitty Position right now..with my mom and him...me Letting him do his thing without Setting bounderies..

Im kinda Crushed right now. We didnt do so many Things properly..do u think this will help anything him goingthere now?

Kind regards!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 21 2016 at 08:12
Member since: 27 January 2016
Ps.

At the end of the Day i figured and also told him that all of this results from us Not trusting eachother enough in the First Place i guess thats Not a goo Way to Start it.. Evnthough i thought my resentment isnt steming from him sleeping with someone Else while we were just writing ( eventhough i did the Same because it wasnt real yet for me) i guess it somehow does.. All the Other Information that fallowed wasnt rly helping my Trust issues towards him.. And Vice VersA..

He is being a total d*ck and im in This Victim possitio.. Thats One the reasons why.. He also feels so unappretiated and so we have Fights about "who does what in the household" it all stems from lack of Trust .. Him saying now he isnt sure about stayingor leaving this City because well all of that i guess...

I know what u mean by saying all of that.. And that i should just dump him but i feel like i know the real him and thisisnt him.. The question is what to do with that Info.. I am Not myself either rightnow.. This Games f*cked it up a lot and me too.. I wasnt used to this behavior from him or me and that goes for him too..

So like i said this is whats Gonna Happen:

He is leaving in friday and stayin Till sunday next week.. We think this is Gonna help for Starters( the Trust issues r still Gonna be there which is concerning me a bit because he is Gonna be there on his own drinking etc..Same goes for him regarding me..) and then the therapy i guess..

We also discussed Long distance again like a Last Solution..

Pps. His Statement yesterday "i wish i met u 2 years later" or "i was thinking how it would have Been if we met in denmark" broke my heart because this rushing into it rly truly f*ked us up...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 21 2016 at 15:54
Member since: 19 August 2014
If this man really, truly loves you, and you he, then yes, of COURSE a separation will work in the sense of 'absence making the heart grow fonder'. That's the true beauty of a separation - it brings whatever *is*, to a giant head (and usually far faster than the lovers themselves anticipated).

It's likely that even the 7-10 day mark will flick the switch to some major missing and yearning on both sides (but usually worse for the male, thanks to their generally higher libidos and senses of possessiveness and territorialism), whereupon you're back in Honeymoon psychology and strength of feeling...which is what you want. Because that state of mind is THE optimum climate for making one anywhere between willing to do (or at least genuinely endeavour to do) and HELL-BENT on doing whatever it would take, within reason, to make the by-then torturous yearning *stop*....even if, having together agreed brand-new terms and conditions, one of you still insists on seeing the entire separation period through to completion, whether or not it means another 2-4 weeks being separated. Because at that point, at least both parties know precisely where the light at the end of the tunnel is and can breathe easier and possibly almost *enjoy* the remaining time as if it were now merely a holiday of sorts. I.e. you still miss each other badly, but the grieving sensation, that horrid angst, has been removed.

Thanks to the situation you were in, the pair of you, the Honeymoon Period is what got missed out on last time (think about it).

What needs to happen, 'second' time around, is this:

1. Courtesy of the torture aspect of separation, he comes back with firmer convictions about getting really stuck in.

2. He now willingly gets a job, even if it's just part-time and/or something as simple as a MacDonalds' 'chef' or a high street cafe. Cash in his pocket as well as cash (the lion's share) to hand over to you/the housekeeping budget is the point. That way he's [i] financially contributing, meaning, he gets back his sense of male pride *and* gets more say in how things are done and run, whilst from your point of view, [ii] you'll regain greater respect and admiration for him and *be perfectly happy* to give him more equal say (because this time he's earned it). And [iii] he'll have a chance to attach to the place and people, rather than just to you and your house/flat. He'll also [iv] regain a more healthily sensible waking-sleeping cycle, which will greatly improve his mood (because - something he evidently doesn't realise - those very late nights and late wakings plus not enough fresh air and exercise will have been playing havoc with his hormones and appetite/food choices, all the usual and natural mood stabilizers, note).

Getting his male pride and sense of power back is paramount. Because then he won't try to compensate for the lack of it by PICKING ON YOU, including this ever-mounting 'takeover bid' of his ("what I say, goes", stomp-stomp!). He can compete with his colleagues-come-work buddies instead (as it should be).

As you've probably gathered by now, 10 days may not be enough to *really* do the trick. Make it 2 weeks to be safe (it's only 4 little extra days), but with an open (i.e. changeable) return ticket, just in case one or both of you feels you need a bit longer (or a bit LESS?).

***********

Mr Soulmate and I were 'lucky' because, having a child, he's always had to pop back to France on a regular basis for X no. of weekend custody visits in one lump. Most stays are 10-15 days, but in Summer dads get one whole, unbroken month, alternating each year between July or August. Flight cost/restriction-wise, though, it usually ends up being 5 weeks.

The short visits are nice little breathers. But the Summer month-to-5-weeks has increasingly been a *killer*, having seen us 'on the floor in the foetal position' by close of Week 2, so much so that we just can't take it any more so have planned for me to join he and his kid this year whilst my own kid is on holiday abroad with his father.

Even when I chucked him out that time, not even anger on both sides was enough to keep us going. By Day 15 we'd have both chopped off our arms if we'd though that's what it would take to sort the crap and get back into our little pea-pod together.

Basically, there's nothing like torture, mental and physical (heartache), to make people get real, stay real, confess their socks off AND SIGN THE CONFESSION. Berbom.

************

"Im in a Shitty Position right now..with my mom and him...me Letting him do his thing without Setting bounderies.."

I know. And if I know and can make suitable allowances for you then HE CERTAINLY should! That's why I'm so disgusted at him. It's like he's trying it on with you and your boundaries when you're LEAST capable of keeping your eyes and mind on whichever ones he's trying to sneak over or crash through. It's him taking advantage of your bona-fide weakness when what a good team-mate does is lend you strength and/or help maximise what strength you do have.

I'm ill this week (sinus head and chest infection). Despite I feel a little better today than lately, Mr S - on his day off, when really he's supposed to be doing a client quote with plans - has been out to the supermarket and run other errands (our banking and the like), come back with all the correct stuff, plus extras, *and* a huge bouquet of roses to cheer me up (which he cut and arranged in the vase). He also hoovered and tidied the downstairs and been plying me with freshly-made coffee every 5 minutes. And I've just noticed he's done and hung out the clothes-washing as well. He's basically cleared my backlog (sounds rude but isn't, LOL).

I didn't ask him to do any of that. He just knows that when one of you is 'down', the other automatically gets under them and lifts them up. (Granted, he is older and wiser than your fella, and has experienced living alone, so we do have to take that into account.)

However, if he were ill, too, then... oh, who am I kidding, HE'D STILL DO IT EVEN THEN! But not if ever he were resentful at me (or resentful at his situation and trying to take it out on me).

Resentment: It comprises two 'marriage partners': one is warranted resentment and the other is misguided, caused by BAD ATTITUDES and unfair, unrealistic expectations.

Is your chap always exploitative like that or is that the result of the situational pressure and resentment *he's* under? And is that resentment fair thus understandable and acceptable or mainly because of his immature and unrealistic or unfair attitudes about what a male-female relationship should look and feel like from a man's POV? This separation will show you, unequivocally, which is the case, i.e. whether he's *fit* for an adult relationship. And with grieving/detaching having been meanwhile going on in your mind, if you can at whatever point tell that, yes he *is* too selfish and exploitative for someone like you, by then you'll care do-ably little anyway, plus will have re-adjusted sufficiently to being on your own, making ending the relationship, relatively speaking, a piece of p*ss. You'll end it happily because you'll know in your heart it's the right thing to do (as will he). Or the opposite. Win/win, no Lose.

He knows this (the *likelihood* of you calling an end to it being higher than his). Course he does...because *you're* the one who's almost single-handedly been carrying the resultant load(s), meaning, how can you not be the one who enjoys the respite and relief the most by far? Why do you think he's been trying all this time to wriggle out of agreeing - meaningfully, I mean - to a break - and meanwhile trying to give you the impression it's *he* who's on the edge?

'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. Because the load/mistreatment, meanwhile, has been pumping your mental muscles (and yes, I mean you). The Holocaust-surviving Jews and their descendants know that (stupid Hitler, thick as pig-sh*t that makes him...talk about 'own goal' as an eventual inevitable (thank goodness)?). So, you enslave and mistreat someone - usually because you find them threatening otherwise - and all you're really achieving is making them even stronger than you than when you began (duuuuh). The way to weaken someone, in fact, is to spoil them rotten by systematically taking on most of what used to be their chores and responsibilities ('kittenifying' I call it). But that's not a problem and negative if you let them do the same with you. YES, you become dependent, the pair of you. But equally. That's a relationship: you both love each other equally and do the same share, weight-for-weight, of work. If you both do "too much", you REAP "too much" as well. That's a relationship De Luxe.

He's been *prevented*, situationally, from doing his 50%, with too much idle time on his hands and not enough stimulation and challenge (plus aforementioned unhealthy daily lifestyle)...which has slowly but surely been sapping his motivation and willingness to do 50%, to the point where, now, he "dun' wanna, mleugh" (apathy and irritability + the addition of resentment).

But you're the one in the more advantageous position because - think about it: Your country won't change, your home and outside environment won't change, your day-to-day routines will largely remain the same, etc,. etc. *Plus* you'll be richer and enjoy being able to please yourself. You'll be less affected courtesy of the lack of stark *negative* contrasts in the fact of copious *positive* ones. The same can't be said about him, or else he'd never have been as keen as he was to emigrate.

*************

Unless you're spiritual twins, you *can't* 'have enough trust in the first place'. (And even if you are, the set-up itself is stressy enough to chip away at even the strongest glue.) In your 'trust basket', depending on how naturally trusting you are, you have about 20% that you are prepared to freely invest and possibly see wasted, with the rest having to be *earned* once you've see that original quantum *not* wasted. That's how it works, despite too many men will say, 'Just trust me/You should just trust me'. (Er, NO, I don't think I will, thanks. Or are you trying to tell me that when someone starts a new job, they get paid 1 month IN ADVANCE? Yeah, well, not on this planet they don't. But nice try. :-p)

*************

"He is being a total d*ck and im in This Victim possitio.. Thats One the reasons why.. He also feels so unappretiated and so we have Fights about "who does what in the household" it all stems from lack of Trust .. Him saying now he isnt sure about stayingor leaving this City because well all of that i guess..."

Yup. But be realistic about this: you have no proof that he slept with someone else. It could all have been nothing but a hot air bid to level the playing field and salve his dented pride...a bat-back. I mean - how's his word been faring *lately* in terms of being only a harbinger of truth? Look at the things he's recently been spouting during fights and bad climates, that you *know* are total BS, just for posturing purposes, and - enough said. He's a bat-back-er. So I don't believe him. (You can. But I don't.)

*************

Nothing's 'effed-up', don't be so melodramatic. If that were true then the pair of you wouldn't be about to take a mutually-agreed break in your [wait for it] endeavours to *save* the relationship; one of you would have just said, It's over. You just got off to a bumpy start that all attempts to *avoid* calling a break have been nothing but compounding.

Tell me - who's idea or insistence was it that the break be only the 10 days?

PS: It's good to see you also have a Plan B (reverting to LD). Due to the fact of having it, you're less likely to need it, simply for how it takes a great deal of pressure off.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 22 2016 at 15:25
Member since: 27 January 2016
thank u for the reply soulmate!

first of all get well soon! and thank u for all this support u gave me..very much appreciated! :)

lets start with your last question:

he insited that he needed some time and then i said " well i told u that this would be a good idea for both of us" and then we kinda agreed on a week..i hope u like hearing that yesterday after i read your msg i said i would like to make it +4 little extra days and today we r booking it..(my visa didnt work yesterday, but today we r finalising it) so from 25.03-07.04 is vacay time! :D

i cant wait to see what happens in that two weeks..i have to say yesterday he started freaking out already(in a funny way)stuff happening in his head like me going out on my own and guys looking at me and him not being there or his mental cinema where because i am so vulnerable im first gonna say no to a guy but that someone is gonna convince me anyway and them im gonna take him home(!?! what ahahah)-nope, not interested in that..but nice to see that he is showing some interest now...but why now, i mean i know why..but still..i needed that earlier..

it seems like he feels so comfy in his depression..because i am the one who is scared and confused and thats it back and he can stay there and be confy because then there is no way i can start complaining (LIKE U SAID..)jeeeez...

but one of the reasons i guess why he acted like that yesterday is because 1. well i said i wanna do 2 weeks and 2. i took a look and didnt see the guy i fell in love with and then i could establish a border between us (not distance like him) but just see myslef and then him and then i saw that poor little boy who was taking so much atvantage of me...and then i said NO im not gonna be all sad and fall into our common depression i thought " go home, i wanna be on my own, i dont wanna deal with u right now" and "i dont deserve this now"..he felt that i didnt listen as excited as earlier to his BS and asked me spontaniously in a funny way again ofc " honey, u know i love u a lot, u love me too right?"..

he is like that because he is scared isnt he?

then today:

this morning he was the one who wrote first saying " morning honey" " u know im scared to lose u " " i want us back again " " i rly love u, im just scared how we r gonna solve all of it-the resentment,mistrust"

and i just said " well i thought we r doing this as a first step to solve it and thats exctaly what i am doing"..

i kept it pretty cool today..

so when i get rly sick of him and he sences it he then *boom* sends me msgs like that or asks me if i rly love him and so on..

he also says he is very confused right now..i guess its also because i wasnt keeping it up like u said "dont give in"-kinda-thing..

he also mentioned that he thought i was better then sleeping with my ex on NYE that actually cheated on me ..(happened just after i found out that my mom is so sick..all of that happened in such a short time..me getting cheated on by a guy who i mistook for someone i was chatting(my bf) with-emotionally that is-and then in the same month my mom getting the diagnosis..)..i guess that lack of trust and then all of that comming up..im not sure if he still sees the real me..

*quick question* where is this ppl? m(the real me) and him (the real him)?..and how r we gonna be that ppl again?any ideas?

after some time we chatted(today) i figured that he started trying to turn the power game to his advantage...THAT HAS TO STOP..GETTING SICK OF THIS ***** POWER GAMES..

well, i need to leave for therapy now anyways..read from u soon i hope!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 22 2016 at 15:55
Member since: 27 January 2016
Ps. He did sleep with that girl( there is a lot More behind that Story tho-ok, there we go Since i already mentioned it: that was a friend of a friend and-like i said- in a Way he saw it as getting back at me for having the relationship in the First Place and then postponing my Visit.. So he got drunk and they had Sex and the next Day she Reportes him for Raping her...Police took him in an After the Investigation they said she was mentally ill in some Way and they Dropped all of that..what hurt me wasnt the sleeping Arround it was More That after that happened lies followed( his phone got taken away by the Police and he told me it was being repaired.. And him doing this it that where he actually was doing something because of that incident..so yeah i guess there is some Things that need to be fixed..)

He was actually the One mentioning the LD.. I told him that that could be an Option and Ten he said " u know, me moving back always meant that we were actually stay in contact.. None of the Options was without being in contact still" i just said that if we break up i dont wanna hear from him atleast for some time(duuuuuh)..

I can see how much Trust was just poooof and gone.. If he would Show some "Progress" i could Start (like before) giving him the Benefit of the doubt..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 22 2016 at 20:39
Member since: 27 January 2016
Pps. Why does it feel like he totally lost interest in me? Like yeah he loves me but i dont see it.. Just when im (like already mentioned) showing no interest (power Game) then he "Flips" and then says "u know i love u a lot? ( id rather ask u now then him..dont wanna pressure him Once again..)

Where is the wish to spend Time with me? To bond? And why is he saying "its Gonna help, (the Trip) we r Gonna miss eachother"

I miss him every Day.. I wanna Show it so badly.. I want to Bond.. Im i so dann Different then he used o remember me? Well for me he is.. He showed so many emotions while we were skyping.. And now he cant? I CAN.. I am Not Forgetting him and what we had and thats why im "Nagging"because i want it back.. I dont Fully understand what is going on with him.. Why does feel so suffercated? I mean when i Look back on the Time he came here i did feel like that too, but i also remember why it was because i thought we were Gonna continue like before.. The only thing he wanted is to Touch me all the time..

Equality and Respect was very important to him and we had it towards eachother and when it got real he lost it for me?..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 23 2016 at 13:57
Member since: 27 January 2016
i dumped him..i couldnt anymore..i was thinking" yeah..the break.. hm..but i dont want that guy anymore..i cant anymore..cant wait for him to come back and be the old.."

and then i did..

he is leaving friday..

he meant he is mentally drained..well ok then be that i cant anymore..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 23 2016 at 20:20
Member since: 19 August 2014
Bear with me, I'll be back on later this eve.
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 24 2016 at 00:04
Member since: 19 August 2014
Basically - to answer all your questions - you spoiled him, gave without expecting or waiting for any reciprocation. Being treated like a prince should be out of recognition of his having *behaved* like a prince toward you. So he got the impression you were desperate and began to take you too much for granted, feeling *too* safe, like he could get away with anything. Therefore, you bringing your foot down firmly isn't what he ever expected to happen. He probably thought you were bluffing back then (about a break) same as he'd been. *Damn right* that would have him panicking and trying to cover you in honey while he still had the chance and proximity. That 'flipping' was this: Ohhhhhhh, sh*t, what have I done?

To give him some credit though: *given* that he thought he were safe to misbehave as much as he liked, he didn't actually go that far, did he. That says an awful lot in his favour. He's just emotionally immature, badly house-trained, not used to resolving conflicts in an adult manner, and typically opportunistic ("Give them [men] an inch and they'll take a mile"), not a monster.

But there's nothing like a bit of a shock to the system, or trauma, to make a person grow up p.d.q. In fact, that's one of the very ways in which a person does grow up, not non-stop smoothness and harmony.

************

Out of everything you wrote up there, this jumped out at me for what it signifies:

"so from 25.03-07.04 is vacay time! :-D"

HURRAH! [BALLOONS AND STREAMERS] I could hear the immense relief from here. So it's safe to suspect that, having finally (FINALLY!) made the decision a reality (and reality is very different from imaginings), you've gone a little liberation-crazy, misread the sense of huge relief in you and ended up going overboard ("it's over!"). That's what happens, isn't it, when a pressure-cooker is allowed to let some steam out a bit too late in the day thus has too much backlog. The minute you turn the outlet nozzle, even just a bit: instead of "Ssssss...", you get BOOM!, lid blowing completely off at XXX miles per hour.

I wouldn't take yourself too seriously on that score. It's just an overdue thus over-sized reaction, and one that might well pass after these uppermost emotions have settled right back down and allowed your other feelings to resurface. There again, it might not. So just take one day at a time, no matter that your mind thought it'd prefer to force a situation whereby you'd know exactly where you stood rather than have to suffer yet another week to two weeks wondering, Are we still on or are we off?, given how you've been feeling like you've had *enough*, already, of being in this horrid Limbo.

Doesn't actually matter that you said it, anyway. Words mean nothing unless the action that accompanies or follows gets sustained. Men know that. On the whole, certainly when calm enough/situation normal, they're more concerned with actions as a matter of course. So he'll be watching that space to see if you calm down enough to take it back. Or, if his confidence returns after he's reviewed the whole event and lead-up and can see that you were just too 'beside yourself' and venting it out accordingly, he might well refuse to lie down and take the dumping and start prodding and chasing like crazy. The onus to contact - i.e. the ball - is, however, technically in your court because you were the one called it off, not him. Let's see what happens from here.

...as if we even needed to wait until Friday. My bet is he'll do something before he leaves to talk you round.

********

Why was he saying the missing each other would do you good? Er... because it will. And because it's not exactly an unknown relationship salvaging option. (Not sure what you're asking there.)

And to be fair, it *is* very difficult to admit how vulnerable you're feeling to someone whom lately feels like 'der enemy'. Men are raised to self-defend via attack and substitute anger for every even slightly "feminine" aka "wimp-ish" state of mind or feelings [rolls eyes] because anger "is" at least an acceptably masculine emotion [rolls eyes again]. Apparently, god gave them tear ducts just for eye-decoration. ;-)

********

So what did you say/how did you tell him, and what did he do and say in reaction? How loudly did he cry-I mean shout and throw insults?

********

Here's the happy news: He won't ever again take you for granted to that degree. Won't dare. Especially as next time you aren't likely to be so willing to shell out for his plane fare. And then he *will* need those roller-skates and dinghy. ;-)

Keep me posted. I'll keep your thread up and open every day, just in case.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 24 2016 at 00:17
Member since: 19 August 2014
PS: Tip: If you find you need it, you can always say you only wanted to dump Mr A*sehole, not Mr Wonderful, but that, because he's not made out of separate-able Lego pieces, unfortunately the whole of him 'got it'.

It's an important phrase to come out with because it'll help him realise, only mothers and fathers and those with shared genes love unconditionally in the face of even maltreatment (- something that isn't even a choice, just a genetically-programmed pull). With everyone else, unconditional is a sum sub-total or total, not a starting figure.

...or as Janet Jackson sang, 'What have-you done-for me-late-ly!'.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 24 2016 at 07:57
Member since: 27 January 2016
Well, yesterday Morning i wrote him and asked for him to get a One Way ticket and After that he said ok and he is Gonna take his stuff with him then (all of them)oh btw we were Taking in the phone, he called me when he read that i would like to talk about something, and then One thing Lead to another and i said i dont wanna be with u and that i cant and then he said "what so we r Breaking up?" And i said yes.. He then said stuff like i thought we were doing the break and what happened at Therapy yesterday and then i said that when i woke up (After a Dream were i was with an ex but was constantly saying i want my Bf) it came to me that i cant anymore and that im waiting all the Time for him to be "back" but thats jut Not Happening.. After that we discussed Money and all of that.. He startedbehaving like everything was fine( i know what that means) i also asked him to go and "deregister" at the Job Center etc because i didnt wanna have any troubles with that.. And later we met up to Write the inet on my Name and get him a ticket for the train(saturday it is because it was the cheapest..

He First asked me if we r Gonna Not talk at all i said sure we can and then he said stuff like i didnt wanna do this and i rly wanted to try More i said i know and that i wanted it too but i couldnt and when we were home we talked More we Both cried..he said that im so Special to me and i said that i dont feel that and then we talked about his fleeing into distance and that i couldlnt try anymore..then he said "yeah and the Bad mood" i guess he was just looking for excused Once again..(because duuuuuh why did that Bad mood Happen in the First place???)

I could see wer Time i got emotional he said smth like "im drained" and that we need to be apart for now..

At some Point he also said " i hope u r Not Gonna run off with someone Else right away.. (f*ck u f*ck u!!!!!!!) if u dont want that Mister then DO smth..

Right now Pointeless.. He Needs to leave and i to be on my own..

Oh and his friends couldnt change the booking (they were supposed to come here in may.. So they r thinking about coming together but he doesnt know yet.. If i dont give in and Start ein emotional and take some distance he might do..i guess

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 24 2016 at 08:17
Member since: 27 January 2016
Ps. When we were talking at home he said smth like " i told u im Not capable of being in a relationship" and i said yeah thats true..was that ok? I can see that im thinking waytoo much about him and how he is feeling etc and Not whats good for me .. Im in this mindset that we r Gonna be together again but that shouldnt be the Case NOT NOW ..i shouldnt be thinking this because with that mr aweful i dont wanna be in a relationship..
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 24 2016 at 08:28
Member since: 27 January 2016
Pps. When he said that he loves me still he also has i said i know thats what hurts me.. Jeez.. I didnt say anything back tho..
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 24 2016 at 19:23
Member since: 19 August 2014
"Make the ticket one way" / "In that case, I'm gonna take all my stuff!". Still just Poker stakes-raising threats for effect... (I'm sure if you two had ever exchanged Dearest rings, you'd have in-turn thrown them at one another as well). Neither of those acts are irreversible or un-do-able. They mean nothing. Plus, note he said at the time, I'm GONNA, not 'I'm taking'. Going to is not the same as will. Subtle difference but blatent nonetheless. And if you dream you're with an ex but demanding your boyfriend, well... that speaks for itself because - who's your boyfriend right now?

He won't be "back" until he's been away. Why do you think I've been banging on about a mini-separation? Because I wanted something from Ikea HQ and thought he could take a quick trip to get it for me while he was there? LOL

*Did* he de-register at the Job Centre? Do you have proof he did? (Bet you don't.) What I do note is that he cooperated perfectly nicely over the i/net adjustment. He's clearly trying to damage-limit so that you'll not have bad memories of him to power you through the next few weeks, resolve-wise (tick!).

But anyway, all of that is just small stuff in light of this bit:

"Oh and his friends couldnt change the booking (they were supposed to come here in may.. So they r thinking about coming together but he doesnt know yet.. If i dont give in and Start ein emotional and take some distance he might do..i guess".

Friends couldn't change the booking. Uh-huh. Yup. SURE. See my 'I really believe him' face ---> :-p

"Ps. When we were talking at home he said smth like " i told u im Not capable of being in a relationship""

'Pityyy meee, mummyyyyyyy....!'. Again, another typical tactic - ignore. (Yes, your response was fine.)

"Im in this mindset that we r Gonna be together again but that shouldnt be the Case NOT NOW "

Says who? This is a break, remember? *Regardless* of your lid having blown the minute you felt it finally safe to. And this *is* you knocking Mr Awful out of Mr Wonderful (and Ms Awful out of Ms Wonderful, if that applies (which I'm sure it does unless you're an android). Or 90% of Mr Awful, I should say (he's only human too, after all... got to have SOME occasions when you want to stuff him face-first into he washing-machine, eh... plus a little bit of regular frisson is a good thing. Your problem has been about *degrees*.)

It's just a break. It's obvious you both truly know that, anyway, and are just SCARED it might not be.

Stop whittling and worrying or you're going to deprive yourself of that much hankered-after Me Time. On which note - what are your plans. Any? ...Aside from collapsing on the sofa in front of the telly with a takeaway and a bottle of vino and farting as loudly as you like (or is that just me? :-D).

PS: What time tomorrow does he leave? How's he getting to the airport? Tip: Don't go soppy or floppy on him but do order him a taxi.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 24 2016 at 19:29
Member since: 19 August 2014
PSS: You can show how sad you are, but in a resigned way. And, just before he leaves, ensure to thank him sincerely, with feeling, for the otherwise WONDERFUL time you shared together as well. Be ultra-classy about it. He's not the only one who can leave you with last-minute positive impressions for breaking resolve, now, is he. ;-)
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 24 2016 at 20:09
Member since: 27 January 2016
so he is leaving on saturday morning, taking the train because he has a lot of stuff to carry..and the trainstation is 10 mis away from here..so i could go with him and say goodbye there..

being arround him now feels like "every day" and we did exchange some looks and a couple of kisses in some moments..i was never the one who went to him tho..what do u say about that? i mean it does show that it is a break and that maybe we will continue LD ( which i think would be best for now-if we continue..i have to admitt im not sure yet..kind of insecure..ESPECIALLY because: i came home earlier and i he was on skype with that gaming friend, however, we both started skyping with him..i was on my lappy and he on his pc and we joked with that friend and he started hitting on me just to make him mad and he got rly weird and mad at both of us (he just said that he is mad at me for talking to him "like that" and that he cant do that..we being in our country and then me talking to that guy like "flirting" which i wasnt, i was just being nice..wanted to make a mense cause i was a bi*ch earlier this week and he heard it over skype..now my bf or ex idk is saying "i cant do that u talking to guys like that and u always make guy friends and i always had a problem with that and THATS what i realised now"..)

i only said "ok? well i was just trying to be nice" and thats it..

why doesnt he rather step up and show his best? NO he chooses the selfpitty..what is going to change the selfpitty mode?

i believe that he did that with the job center because i asked him to do it because i said i didnt wanna have troubles with it..i didnt wanna have anyone come here and nock on my door saying " u garanteed for him, where the f*** is he now?" so thats that

haha, i dont have plans yet..well maybe going out with a fried and having a couple of drinks?

hm..i rly felt ok after we were all joking (in the start) and talking to his gaming friend.. we got along great and i thought ok the mood is good..thats a start( i was freaking out earlier..)

but now..after he said that..i guess that pitty again..and im not gonna react to it, I WONT, but jeeeeez its a pain in the a* and some good mood would be nice now..

so what u r saying basicly is " could u stop crying? dont do the same thing he is doing, because thats what brought u in this situation in the first place?" hmm u r right soulmate, u r hahah :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 24 2016 at 20:47
Member since: 27 January 2016
ps: now he just said " now im at crossroads, because i saw how u interacted with that guy and u always make male friends(not unusually, but ok?!) and thats one of the things why we fought so much and that caused problems"..and he doesnt know if he wants his girlfriend being like that and i was about to say but everyone talks to males and females but then he said " i dont know if i can be with u because i have this demons.."

ok..so like io said i didnt wanna react like that and i didnt rly i just said a couple of sentences that should show that its normal talking to men and women but when he said all of that i was like "well ok.."(whatever-ish) he has the ace again! he just took it from me...

im not going to say anything else or show any emotions..because its stupid.. advice would be nice tho..or lets say a theory? do u think he can get over that if im not constatly reacting to it? and i guess one of the reason why he does feel like it is because we arent as connected?i do know that is his lacking selfworth too..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 25 2016 at 03:56
Member since: 19 August 2014
Yes, you could offer to accompany him for the purpose of helping him carry his clobber to the station. That way he won't read it as your resolve having weakened in the interim. You're still very firm about what changes you insist on for reconciling, and are just doing the decent thing... the excellent hostess as always....on which note, it also might de-personalise the reason behind your having for 'too long' spoiled him, i.e. not desperation to keep him by keeping him constantly happy, like he thought, but more just because your parents raised you to be a classy lady and play fair.

When you say goodbye, keep born in mind the (glaring!) (ref 'what I say about that', and too-copious other signs) obviousness of his not wanting this to be the end. That way you won't burst into mis-interpretable tears (although feel free if he does).

You won't revert to LD. I'd be quite happy to make a four-figure bet about that. He'll be back. He was just all along trying it on... and to be fair, your foot coming down firmly *did* come not only late in the day but pretty much in one, fell swoop, remember? Most men, especially the younger they are, can't cope with turnaround that sudden (a design throwback that has its uses in other realms)... most are Black & White, rigid thinking, pigeon-hole-ing merchants with little appreciation for how changes in context affect rules, habituals and decisions. E.g., if you say enough times during Winter, 'Wait...don't forget - always take an umbrella with you, just in case', they'll still be doing it in the height of Summer ("But you told me to always take an umbrella out with me!" / "Good grief!", you'll say).

It's not 'weird' for him to take umbrage at some guy hitting on you and - innocence on your part regardless - you not trying to stop him (so not *completely* innocent, eh). To him it would feel you're already plonking yourself back onto the open dating market when he isn't even out of the door yet! Come on - you knew what you were doing, let's not play dumb, okay?

Stop that kind of nonsense, though. Be a lady. Stay *passive*.

"why doesnt he rather step up and show his best? NO he chooses the selfpitty..what is going to change the selfpitty mode?"

Him getting home and relaxing considerably (where clearer thinking will kick back in), not liking being back, as in, away from you (including what you might be up to that he can neither monitor nor intervene in), but recognising that neither is his home turf Hell-on-a-stick. Just empty and not what he wants, thus surreal and boring both. Right now he'll be in high DefCon... *very* stressed, even more so under his (80% failing) attempts to keep a stiff upper lip. "i only said "ok? well i was just trying to be nice" and thats it..": that was a good answer, though, including its brevity (and is what I mean by passive). Agreeing with everything he says (or answering, I don't know) is a good move.

Meantime, he'll be a bad hair day on legs.

***********

Start making plans. You really do need to make the most of this break. It might be your last. Ever. Happily... but still - ever. Start highlighting films you'd like to watch in your TV planner, even. Also, get out your old CDs, the ones you danced and partied to in the years prior to meeting him or even further back than that. And have a bop in your living-room to them. Not only does he need to get back in touch with his old/normal self, but so do you.

Look through your old photo albums, too. Phone friends and relatives you lost touch with or just haven't nattered to while taken up with this relationship and its teething troubles. Plan indulgent suppers and snacks, a mixture of naughty and healthy rare treats. Buy wine and candles and bubblebath and spend as long as you like in the tub (again, accompanied by your old music collection). And chocolate...lots and lots of chocolate. Spoil yourself rotten. And as strange as it might sound - hug and stroke yourself as much as possible, too (your inner animal won't appreciate it's you rather than someone else entirely). And if ever you feel really anxious, get your "BOB" out.

Basically, DATE YOURSELF.

*************************

"i just said a couple of sentences that should show that its normal talking to men and women but when he said all of that i was like "well ok.."(whatever-ish) he has the ace again! he just took it from me..."

No, he doesn't. Because you responded with 'well, ok...' (again, that's you staying passive and not rising to any bait), despite he's right now trying anything he can get his hands on to push your buttons (like making a total meal of that Skype bantering), mixed in with trying to pre-emptively save face (just in case you in X days time end it for-good).

He *can't* have the ace card, anyway. It was *always* yours. You just forgot to remember it. Have a long thinkipoos about that and tell me why/how you think that was the case.

PS: I think you're doing great, btw. Anyone would think you'd done this at least 10 times before. I wasn't expecting to be this impressed, this soon. :-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 25 2016 at 04:00
Member since: 19 August 2014
Sorry - date yourself *after* he's gone, not now. As you can no doubt appreciate - in the circumstances, you bopping around the sitting-room probably wouldn't go down too well [understatement!, LOL].
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 25 2016 at 12:52
Member since: 27 January 2016
ok, gonna think about it and tell u why i think he has the ace..

i do have a favour to ask if thats ok:

u kept saying "be passive" i guess that the womens part and because i dont quite get the "being passive in a relationship" i would like u to tell me how that works or lets say maybe link me a site maybe? i tried googling it but i coulnd find anything..

im gonna date myself..its gonna be hard tho..i do have to say that he was my biggest concern and in order to do stuff i would like to do and desire would mean finding myself first..(i guess thats why u mentioned looking through pics)

little update for u:

yesterday after i passivly (*proud**proud**proud* :D)handled the situation i went to bed and after some time we decided on a movie to watch..he came to bed too and he started touching me..and kissing..i looked at him and was like "what happened to the situation hahah?you cant rly decide on anything right now haha" and he kissed me and asked if i rly want to mention that right now and i said no its just funny and we had sex..

i have to say that i can see how FAR FAAAAR away he was emotionally..we did have moments in the beginning were we tried putting a lot of emotions(happens naturally) into the sex now it was kind of strange..i felt kinda weird..having sex with him eventhough i dont see mr wonderful..i felt kind of uncomfortable..and a bit used tbh..maybe i was overthinking it..but still..

it just felt he wanted to have sex because he was horny and not to "make love"...

i rly hope the break will change all of that..

this morning i woke up and went to work late..its friday so i can get off earlier today and then i dont know go home and we could eat smth..

that reminds me of something tho when that situation happened with the skype guy (and earlier we made plans to order some food) he said he would feel bad talking my money now..and he is just gonna make himself a sandwich..like what was that? i mean i know what it was but that was weird..he never had a problem taking and using my money(i also always said our/mine money) and then in that situation after he said "he is not sure if can be with me cause of his demons and me acting like that towards men" he says its mine and " no thank u"..

oh btw, such a "funny" thing tho him saying he isnt sure if he can do that, last thing that i can remember was that i "broke it off"..hahahah that guy..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 25 2016 at 13:38
Member since: 27 January 2016
uuh, i forgot to mention smth:

i was with my collegue on a smoke break earlier( the p*ssy whipped one according to mr a*hole) and he was telling me a story about his gf (rly not interesting) THE interesting part was tho how i instandly came up with this theory:

my dear bf was (over skype were there was enough actual distance between us-ergo safe place)always very much showing sooo much love at some point i joked about him beeing so cheesy...and not *poooof* gone..so him calling my collegue p*ssy whipped is kinda him stating that we shouldnt be showing emotions and doing stuff for one another because if he would do it it would mean that he is under my control and his manlyhood would be quentionsable?..did i get this right?

all this time him showing me so much (too much sometimes for me) affection was ok("Because that is how he is..he needs a lot of love"..->HIS FREAKN WORDS) because it was over skype but in real life that would mean he is no real man? i see that there is a lot of fear behind that tho..

what do u think about that?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 26 2016 at 18:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
No, Nana, I said, tell me how it is that *you* have and have always had the ace card.

By passive, I meant, not letting anything he says rile you (just letting it slide or agreeing with him ("if you say so"); you refraining from saying (or doing) anything to rile him. Just sadly and quietly resigned at the fact this break has to happen and why.

Did you not realise at the time that a sizeable part of why he was seducing you would have been for the purposes of trying to re-increase your strength of attachment to him for while he's away (because he's scared someone else might meantime swoop, especially if you were giving out sexually-frustrated vibes)?

"i rly hope the break will change all of that.."

It's already looking like it will, yes. Ignore the 'detached' feeling, it would have been hard for him to let go emotionally, given the circumstances.

"like what was that? i mean i know what it was but that was weird..he never had a problem taking and using my money(i also always said our/mine money) and then in that situation after he said "he is not sure if can be with me cause of his demons and me acting like that towards men" he says its mine and " no thank u".."

That's just him trying to comfortingly convince himself that the problem was your not liking being the financier. I'm sure he doesn't even believe it himself. But that, again, is the point of this break - to make him cease deluding himself in place of tackling the actual issues (including his attitudes).

"my dear bf was (over skype were there was enough actual distance between us-ergo safe place)always very much showing sooo much love at some point i joked about him beeing so cheesy...and not *poooof* gone..so him calling my collegue p*ssy whipped is kinda him stating that we shouldnt be showing emotions and doing stuff for one another because if he would do it it would mean that he is under my control and his manlyhood would be quentionsable?..did i get this right?"

Yup. Like I say, if a person thinks they're up for the chop, they won't exactly be prepared to wax lyrical about how much they love the position, will they. But, ref the see-saw analogy, that was him prostrating himself in (his perception) the Servant position. Evidence shows he's been switching rapidly between the two roles, meaning, pride has taken a back seat in his secretly (not so secretly!) desperate endeavour to try this, try that, try this again, try that again...whatever might work not to have to get on that plane (or to avoid ending up being told not to come back again whilst he's away). That's yet another excellent sign. And - "i see that there is a lot of fear behind that tho.." - yup, there you go, you've more or less got it.

*********

So do I take it he's back in his home country by now?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 27 2016 at 14:51
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

yes he is back, since yesterday evenin.

let me tell u what happened the day before:

so the day before he left he was skypin when i came home from work. immediatly he hun up on his skype friend( he didnt want the same situation happenin aain (btw my *g* isnt workin..dont know why..)

he was then playin a bit first and askin me constatly why im in such a ood mood i just said that im ok and that i didnt want any bad mood today because he was leavin soon..however slowly he kinda came to me and wanted to be close and started talkin about if he should et himself a flat because he wants to be on his own too..and i was just listenin didnt say much at first but then after some time he started bein more open and so on and then he said now i dont even wanna o and i said that its onna be ood for us and that we dont know what the future holds and maybe he is onna be back home in some weeks or months..

at some point he also wanted to know from me(!) what was happenin like if we were broken up or what..and i said let me put it this way i dont wanna be with mr a*hole anymore but since mr a*hole and mr wonderful are the same person u have to o to denmark..his reaction was just "okaaay?!"

we also went to et somethin to eat and came back home aain..at some point he asked me if i did the "actin and talkin like i did with his skype friend" just to make him mad.. and i said i was and i also told him already and besides that me showin interest in the friend was just because i felt him(my bf) and me were a team and so it was ok us jokin with the skype friend and then me apoloizin..i did it because he was there and we were a team..and thats what i told him..

then we talked aain..he said he didnt wanna o(like i already mentioned) and then he said he didnt wanna carry all of that on his own and i said well u dont have to brin all of it..then he asked me how i felt when he was mentionin ettin a flat in denmark (no point in hidin that) and i said well u dont have to riht away..we dont know what is oin to happen...

and i think that from this point on he AGAIN felt (i think) super safe and the startin "gettin close" stopped all of a sudden.. and i was soo disappointed in myself..i saw him slowly comin back (meanin he started touchin me and behavin towards me like i would like it and not how HE felt he wanted to touch or behave) do u et what i mean? i bet u do...it was like i ave him the card aain..like he didnt have to worry about me always waitin here for him with open arms..

so i was mad..not at him, at ME! and he felt it..and he said "u wanted to prove a point with breakin up didnt u" i said " ofc i did, there is a part of u that i cant deal with and i dont want to deal with" buuuut the dmg was done soulmate..he felt super secure for what ever reason.. and then at some point i said no, maybe u should et a flat..

well however..we went to bed and the next mornin woke up and were almost too late for the train..took a cab there and ave him some money (he didnt have anythin left) and there we were..in the train ( i didnt cry!).we were both sad and he said its a ood thin and that its oin to be ood aain..and that we need it and the train left..

i broke down when he was one..

some moments later he wrote me a sms:

him:

gonna miss you so much baby.. i love you alot.. it will be good for us, even tho its abig thing to do.. im so sorry that you didnt feel special, and that you have to know by me saying so, because you are very special to me.. heart emoticon im gonna try n nap a bit babe.. kiss emoticon

me:

I love u too honey im Gonna miss u..its the right thing to do now.. Im Gonna sleep too..Good Travel bby kiss emoticon

**********************************************

the whole day yesterday was just different phases: i cried, then i was ok, then i was a bit sad, then super sad, then ok aain..and so on..when he then found internet in the erman trains we started chattin a bit..he had the phases too it seemed:

him:

yeah hahaha.. mixed feelings.. felt very sad earlier too..

a bit stressy.. and its so unhandy and heavy all this sh*t

oh and have to get a water and a sandwich haha

him:

missed you so much on this ride tho.. was strange not having you with kiss emoticon

to be honest i dont know how to behave now towards him..i just dont..last niht his friend picked him up, they delivered his stuff to his dads and then he wrote me this:

him:

Bby heart emoticon

At emils now.. Dropped stuff off at.my dads,.ate durum.. Sooo good.. Having.beers.now

I know.its the.first.day,.but.i already.miss.you alot

me:

Hi bby

Almost Fell asleep there and my phone keeps Buzzing haha

Haha

Miss u bby, enjoy it heart emoticon

him:

I m.trying.. Its a.bit.strange.tho.. I dont.feel.at.home.hereat.all..

me:

Home is were Your Heart is bby

Try to relax bby.. Talk the sh*t out danish hahaha

him:

I am...so strange.tho, almost switching to.english

I feel.so.cheesy now.. The heart is wher.you are..

at some point i felt like we started playin this ame where both look super busy..and then i didnt want to anymore and fell asleep..

today it was the same thin..*ooh sorry, i didnt see u wrote me because i am super busy with other stuff and that is more important*-kinda thin..

its so childish..and then at some point he feels that he misses me (or what ever..not quite sure what it is) and writes "honey u r so distant.." BS!!! he is bein distant and from what i know now is if i show too much interest (apparently) then he doesnt ive a flyin f*ck..

should we not talked to eachother for some time?

****************************************************

btw earlier he told me that the only thin he wants to do riht now is play...

****************************************************

btw, i couldnt write u earlier because i just didnt have enery ..at all!

been eatin almost nothin, smokin A LOT and watchin some series on my laptop..for now..oh and i think im ettin sick..feels like a fever...

****************************************************

soulmate i totally lost it..like rly..

i cant believe how complicated all of this ot when it was so easy at some point..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 27 2016 at 21:39
Member since: 27 January 2016
so right now we r skyping and he is telling me that he feels strange..he feels like he doesnt know where he belongs and that he is confused..

he was also saying that he realized hoe at home he feels with me..and he hopes that doesnt go away the next few weeks..i guess we r both drama queens.

**********************

he did mention right away that he is coming back, the question is just when..and i laughed and said that i need some time..he said he wanted to maybe come with his friends in may..(remember the trip they planned)

i can see him being super scared that he is going to lose me..and he is asking me if i think im going to say " no i dont want u here" i grined and said that the break is going to do us good..and that he should have a bit of faith in himself..he said he doesnt right now..depressing

**********************

now we r just doing our own thing, surfing the inet separatly and sayin a word or too every now and then..

going to keep u updated, and btw, happy easter!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 28 2016 at 00:43
Member since: 27 January 2016
ps. one thing tho, because i cant let this go right now..

when we were skyping all of a sudden some woman (mid 30s) started chatting with him..first he was like "jeeez that women is weird blabla" and then they didnt stop..he was telling him how her bf just came home drunk..and when they didnt stop i asked him " dont u think its a bit doubles standard-ish giving me shit and u r talking to a random women from your online game..?"

however, they started talking about relationships..and he said how smart she was and he said " it kinda reminded me of the forum u r writing in" and then all of a sudden she is super smart and so easy going and they just kept writing about music and his dead mom and her husband passing..and him and her husband being distant and drugs and so on..

i feel bad now..its not easy going with me..it hasnt been since the moving stress started and him calling me smart or being impressed(which he always was..when i said some random general knowledge fact..)..

him saying u r so speacial and i love u and u r my best friend and then not showing me at all..i can think of some reason we already discussed..but the thing he said about its so "easy" talking to her..when it was super easy with us(funny i already mentioned that above..)that hurts like sh*t...

at the moment im the one who is the bad guy..im pressuring him in so many ways..

and here he sits..while "skyping" with me writes with another woman..

could it be that it turned me into something i never wanted to be? nagging b*tch?..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 28 2016 at 00:45
Member since: 27 January 2016
*husbands dad passing
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 29 2016 at 03:35
Member since: 19 August 2014
Sorry, Nana, things are extra busy at the mo because of Easter. I've cleared my deck with the 'quicker/easier' stuff in order make you my first port of concentrated call tomorrow, as early as poss. Bear with... Shan't ever abandon you...t'is only ever a case of By When, not Whether.

But for now: relax. He's far more scared than you are.

You're safe. He's not.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 29 2016 at 18:39
Member since: 19 August 2014
Good, I'm glad you managed to mention the Lego analogy as well as that he didn't have to take all of his stuff back. Good move. Now he knows he'll get to come back once he's replayed all the events and seen the error of his ways, not sit there doing nothing but panicking and building resentment at the suspicion you're secretly dumping him for-good. He knows exactly where he stands and how the land precisely lies. There are no excuses now.

The 'might get a flat in Denmark' was a typical scare/poker tactic. Good answer there, as well - excellent, in fact - but you can ignore that panic noise too.

So, no, you didn't give him the Ace card. Nor give him the impression you'd be waiting with open arms *no matter what*.

It didn't matter if when he relaxed so too did his attentiveness and obsequiousness. What happened just before he left is of little consequence, it's what happens from then on that's important. After all, you don't want him returning just because you're his property to protect, do you. You want him to come back because this time he's determined to do all within his power not to make you so unhappy and stressed again. After all, what man need keep a constant eye on his woman if she's really happy being his relationship partner? Any advance-makers are going to automatically get turned down and sent away with their tail between their legs. That's how it works (or should if the partner concerned has any common bloody sense)...

'If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours. If it doesn't, it was never meant to be'.

Anyway, I notice an improvement already. Sure, there were poker bluffs (mainly his), but still plenty of "getting real" as well. He admitted (twice) he didn't want to go; you admitted a tiny part of you had naughtily been trying to wind him up using the Skype friend. That's more like it, eh? Plus, you've shown him how he's not the *only* one who knows how to make the other feel undermined.

But anyway, you could have told him, 'This is Time-Out, pal. You've been badly behaved so now you have to sit on the Naughty Step...which just so happens to be in Denmark. WHEN you're prepared to behave more like a 50/50 soulmate is when you'll get to come back. Your power and choice entirely'.

But it's obvious he did get it (and had all along) (caps): "we were both sad and HE SAID IT'S A GOOD THING AND IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD AGAIN..AND THAT WE NEED IT...and the train left.."

***************

"some moments later he wrote me a sms:"

There it is, the biggie (I was waiting for that) - ACTIONS! I didn't even need to read it. Although I will...

"gonna miss you so much baby.. i love you alot.. it will be good for us, even tho its abig thing to do.. im so sorry that you didnt feel special, and that you have to know by me saying so, because you are very special to me.. heart emoticon im gonna try n nap a bit babe.. kiss emoticon"

Ahhh.....

Okay, enough Ah-ing. If we take out the portion of it that was his last-ditch attempt to hear you tell him to get off at the next stop and come back, it's still exactly what you (and he) needed to know/remember. That's what this separation is about - making all the needless, negative niggly stuff 'n nonsense pale into insignificance and be reminded about what really matters. IMMEDIATELY, you two were back in Honeymoon. *Now* we're cooking on gas!

"when he then found internet in the erman trains"

Ha-ha - 'found'. You make it sound so incidental, whereas he was probably running around, frantic, like a headless chicken, yelling, 'Internet, internet, someone give me internet, aaargh!!!'. :-D

****************

"to be honest i dont know how to behave now towards him..i just dont."

Well, if you don't - JUST SAY SO. This is a time for brutal honesty, clearing out all the cobwebs. Call it a relationship spring-clean, if you like?

Anyway, you're a pro (caps):

"Miss u bby, ENJOY IT, heart emoticon"

+

"HOME IS WHERE YOUR HEART IS BBY"

[Standing ovation!]

You probably *do* know how to behave...or feel like behaving, I mean. Only he daren't let you. There he is, prodding away at your heart, telling it, 'don't go to sleep on me, now, will you, don't go to sleep?!', like a man possessed. Whereas, what you REALLY need... is peace and quiet - so you can get your head straight. I mean, yeah-yeah-yeah, he adores you and you adore him, blah-blah... But that was never the issue, was it. It's about INSURANCE & MAINTENANCE. It's no good any man wooing a woman into his boat. He's got to KEEP her there! Wooing is *not* solely Honeymoon Period territory. The 'work' never stops. Because the work is the constant 50 Pences fed into the choccie dispensing machine (you) as keeps it dispensing [wait for it, LOL] CHOCCIE BARS (or honey?). If only more men realised that, rather than doing what they do: 'Right, got her now, got my feet under the table...HAAAH, now I can relax'. Well, as he's just found out - *you can't*. Or does he think he need perform impressively only during a job interview and then, once appointed, sit at his office desk with feet up all day, doing eff-all but making models out of paperclips? Would he not expect to get fired rather quickly?... despite the boss and staff might remember him, personality-wise, fondly?... "Oh, yeah, I remember Hans... Lovely bloke, but JEEZ, what a chocolate teapot, work-wise!".

Men like him *do know* they have to keep working at it. They'd just rather not. IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.

Sure, you can get away with it. For a while, anyway. But even the softest women have an end of tether. When, not If. So then you've got your current workload *and* your catching-up to do, meaning, now you're working far harder than if you'd done it at the time (duuh). So there's no getting away with it: if you want a relationship to remain great and even improve, you've got to keep working at it. Berbom.

***************

"at some point i felt like we started playin this ame where both look super busy..and then i didnt want to anymore and fell asleep.."

:-) (I would clap again but my hands are red raw, LOL)

"and writes "honey u r so distant.." BS!!! he is bein distant and from what i know now is if i show too much interest (apparently) then he doesnt ive a flyin f*ck.."

Translation: 'Got me choccie bar, now I can relax..........Wait up!... I've finished that choccie bar....OH NO, NOW I'M OUT OF CHOCOLATE (50 Pence, 50 Pence, someone give me 50 Pence, aaargh!').

That's not 'not giving a f**k'. That's just typical male short-sighted laziness.

All you have to do, Nana, is (courtesy of this separation) get him used to keeping the 50 Pences coming. Enough of that over enough days or weeks aaaand... suddenly it's become a hard-hard habit, too hard to break. So it's okay if you respond sweetly. And it's okay if you go on Stand-by whenever the next 50 Pence is late coming. I.e...

WHAT HE REAPS IS WHAT HE SOWS. CRAP CROP YIELD? *HIS* FAULT. (MUST AVOID THAT MISTAKE AGAIN.)

HE'S THE MOVER-SHAKER-WOOER, YOU'RE THE RESPONDENT.

Ta-daaaa!

***************

"should we not talked to eachother for some time?"

No. Unless you have things to be getting on with at the time. It's good if he plays and gets back a positive mindset. You should too. And copious flirting and purring is the ticket. Just think, has he made me feel like flirting and purring? If not - don't. Until he does again. That's it.

He's well and truly addicted to your choccie bars. And it would take him A GOOD YEAR (at the very least) to lose that taste and addiction. That's all you need to know. I mean, never mind 'let it go and if it comes back it's yours' - EVIDENTLY, HE HASN'T EVEN LEFT! Just his body.

Let your fever run its course.. it's well overdue, anyway. And then you'll feel brand new and as strong as an ox.

****************

"i cant believe how complicated all of this ot when it was so easy at some point.."

Yeah. That was your problem. IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE EASY!

Got it now? This is the 'puppy training' you should have been doing right from the word Go. Only you didn't. Now have a long, proper think about WHY.

***************

"and he hopes that doesnt go away the next few weeks..i guess we r both drama queens."

'Next few weeks', ha-ha, IN HIS DREAMS! And yes, you are, the pair of you: "If it's not madness it's not love". - Pedro Calderon de la Barca.

"and that he should have a bit of faith in himself..he said he doesnt right now..depressing"

That's what happens when you cook your Golden Goose. No more Golden eggs. (He's leeeeaaaar-ningggggg! :-))

**************

"when we were skyping all of a sudden some woman (mid 30s) started chatting with him..first he was like "jeeez that women is weird blabla" and then they didnt stop..he was telling him how her bf just came home drunk..and when they didnt stop i asked him " dont u think its a bit doubles standard-ish giving me shit and u r talking to a random women from your online game..?""

'Jeeez, notice this woman that's after me!'. Yes, but remember why you did it. His shenanigan was *supposed* to rile and make you think, Double standards! That way, you're so provoked, even if only on a justice level, you [wait for it] talk to him and 'show' him you miss him. In future - ignore, ignore, ignore. She's not his No. 1 fave brand of choccie, is she... doesn't stand a chance. But, hey, if she or any other woman wants to let him USE HER like that - fine, that's HER funeral.

That's just him trying to 're-awaken' you. Because him? He can't sleep!

Nooo-thing compares!.........No-THING compares...2U! [sing along? :-)]

Anyway, this was him putting a bent and rusty token into the choccie machine instead of a 50 Pence piece. So what do *you - the dispensing machine* do whenever that happens (he's skyping with you but talking to someone else simultaneously)? ****RSvP****

I'll let you into a little secret, Nana. 'Men love women (and quasi women), women love kids, kids love hamsters'. By programme, he 'feeds' you, you 'feed' the kids, the kids practise (ready for adulthood) at being you or him (depending on their gender) by 'feeding' a fluffy, human-babylike animal. As it should be, as Nature intended and still intends, and how you, the family, survive and prosper, both physically and psychologically. Put another way: men love FAR harder and deeper and longer-lastingly than women. Hence they're the stalkers. ;-)

In a nutshell, you have the Ace card because you have the sacred womb, without which, he has nowhere to 'put it'. Or put another way, he's the seed-sower and you're the field (who owns but shares the crop yield).

You *are* the Ace card.

Make sense?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Mar 30 2016 at 14:56
Member since: 27 January 2016
i can grasp that somehow soulmate..i can..i can see its my ace..

i think the reason why i was so overwhelmed and sad was, because i was thinking about our missing connection

and him totally not showing me or letting himself feel it..AND ofc him not being himself AT ALL!(i do have to admiti only had him and his feelings in my focus, so i guess i forgot about myself too..what to do about that know?

all this time i always listened to: "u r my best friend", " u r the love of my life and so so special" ..i know how it feels when we r equal..i know how it is when he appreciates me and ESPECIALLY when the EQUAL part..and i have to say that twice because thats my biggest concern right now..

EQUALITY between us, that means there is nothing he cant talk to me about and my opinion metters and IS the most important to him and he acutally WANTS to spend time with me because it metters to him and like he said i am "special" and he wants to impress me..

today, we talked and it was a good talk..i was the one who responded and waited IF i should and HOW..he told me things like "i am going to show u in the future how much i rly love u and this time apart is going to do us so well, just dont change your mind hahah because i wanna come home to you again"

he also said that he needs me to show HIM the *love* after i said that i need that and that thats one of the things that have to change..

he told me that he misses me so much he saw that he might miss the one or other person but he really needs me and that i am his everything..

Buuuuuuut, at some point he said this and then the rest happened..and this is a big problem that this(him feeling so god damn pressured) is happening over and over again:

Him:

Btw, think im getting vacation money tomorrow

like around 1k euroes

just checked now, it says 31/3

Me:

Thats so nice honey

Him:

and then the 500 euroes the 14th

like really..

Him:

like the 500 from the tax thang

Me:

Äh ok

Thats rly nice

Him:

sooo nice babe..

Me:

So honey were u planning on Sending me some?

Him:

hahaha

do you need some?

Him:

i was tho, wasn't planning on it now tho

Me:

Were u?

Him:

was gonna save the most of it, and bring it when i came back

Me:

Hm ok

Him:

but ofc

its our money baby

Me:

Thats how i always saw it too

Him:

why tho? You don't trust me.. Because you ask alot about it.. And i tell you every time that thats the plan, and

its our money

Me:

I dont know..i thought that maybe u would approach me and Tell me Hey honey here some to cover it..

Him:

well.. i was gonna

that's why im keeping you updated all the time

and telling you as soon as i know something

i dont know how i gave you the impression/made you feel like you have to ask all the time....

Me:

Yeah..that sucks..

Him:

because i didnt screw you over with money, or gave you an impression that it wasnt ours..

Me:

Yeah i appeciate u Keeping me updated..

And thats how it should be with anything..

Maybe i had the Impression that u r Not thinking like that..

Him:

I know.....

but i don't know why.. :S

Me:

Because i didnt feel very appreciated

Me:

Had to go To my Boss

Next week on wed and Fr i have 8-16

It started..

Him:

That's very hurtful, and is honestly making me a bit mad

Because i was overwelmed and we dealt with alot, distance and so on, doesn't mean that im gonna screw you over, in any way at all..

Doesn't seem like you have any trust in me, or think very highly of me

Me:

I do..but Not everywhere..thats One of the reasons why i needed some Time..

Him:

And especially with money?

Him:

You may say that its because you dont feel appreciated (which i think is bullshit) But when there is no trust between us, and you think this low of me, it makes things very difficult. I may say that it has alot to do with me struggling, by going there, and because of all the stuff.. But it has alot to do with stuff like this to..

Me:

Bullshit?

If u already now whats about i can Save my breath here explaining..

Him:

Save your breath explaining? :S

This is making me feel really bad about myself

Him:

It makes me feel like we're not a team, at all. That i'm just leeching off of you, when you ask all the time.. Like i owe you money, as in a loan, when we both said so many times that its "our" stuff/money what ever.. It makes me fee like such a bad human being also, making it look like im just gonna screw you over and keep the money for myself

Him:

and then on top of that, saying that it because you dont feel appreciated. I know that we have some stuff that we're working on, but at times it feels like you think very low of me, and only focus on whats going on right now.. That what we have isnt special, just because we did a huuuge thing, and now its making stuff a bit hard

Him:

I never did anything with money, that could give you the impression that i would fuck you over. I even told you everything i bought, even if it was just a kebab

Me:

Thats the Problem right now.. It was Never actually about money..it was More about the comitment which in my opinion i didnt feel from u a lot of Times and thats what its about.. Its about the Team feeling.. Me wanting it and u Not giving it and then stuff like this happens.. In Other areas (money) it Shows..

Him:

i felt no team feeling from you either??

You're making it sound alot like its my fault all of this, and its not

Me:

Tell me then what it is: me coming home wanting to spend Time with u or wanting to have talks (Not only problems but just talks ) and u staring at a Freaking screen? We already discussed this.. Its the "showing it More" thats all it is

Its about giving More like we already talked about yesterday or earlier, its nothing Else then that

Him:

We did, and i am not blaming you for all of it, i have alot of the fault in this

But you're doing that all the time

making it sound like its all my fault

and that you're trying so hard, but i'm just turning you down, and down

which is not the case..

None of us really suggested anything to do with each other

Me:

I shouldnt be asking for it

Him:

asking for what? Us to do something?

Me:

I shouldnt be coming home to someone who doesnt know that his best friend is Sitting next to him..or his love..instead i was, coming home to someone who Felt overwhelmed that i was asking for it..

And i shouldnt be asking for it..and im Not Gonna ask for it anymore..but we talked about it..just earlier

I said 50/50 is More then enough u r Not the One who has to do everything i just want the 50 %

Him:

Its not about you taking all the blame, i just said that

its about you giving ME all the blame

and i'm not gonna take all the blame, because its not all me

Me:

I didnt say that

I already said 50/50

Him:

Well, this isnt even what we were talking about. We were talking about you making me feel shitty, by basically saying that im gonna screw you over, all the time

Me:

What?

No Not rly

I just said where it stems from

So it is what we were talking about

Him:

sigh...

Me:

I know that it hurts but i mean u know that stuff impacts stuff dont u? And thats what happened and we talked about it..

Him:

I know that it does, that's not what i am saying, or what i'm surprised about.

But it sounds like you have no high thoughts about me, but are thinking very lowly about me

Like we just met each other

and i did you nothing but wrong..

Me:

Thats how i Felt a lot of Times

49 minutes ago

Me:

This distance from your Side..it made me feel so Bad about myself..and it Went on for a Long Time..and i guess i had the wrong approach to it..but i mean..i was so hurt that u wouldnt be genuin with me..and instead of trying to be More u started looking for distractions..do u know how much that hurts? No Connection+distractions so basically No Way to get back to where we were..and what kinda feeling does a Person get from that? Just think logically,that person thinks well he doesnt want to..non of it..u can tell me how Special i am from morning Till dawn but i have to feel it..and like i said earlier i didnt..thats why i was extremly hurt to the Point were u had to go

Him:

It was also triggered by your distance, you showed alot of that. Don't forget that the behavior with distractions and so on, was what YOU did in the past

We talked alot about us both going through it, because we did, as in you did the EXACT same thing

and i got to a point where i felt like i had been trying for so long, and got nothing i nreturn.

So tell me about feeling not wanted, and not special, because i was there, for a LONG time.

Me:

And what now? Now is now..what happens now?

We can put all of this in the past..its Not relevant anymore thats why we did the Break..i changed my behaviour i started showing u..and now its your turn, if u say im important its me u want and the Connection then u have the power to change it

Him:

Well, i would like us to get past it, but it makes me so mad, when you're mentioning my distance all the time, when in reality it got caused by the distance from your side.. I dont want us to throw mud, at each other, from who did what, what ever..

but as you also said, there has been alot of pressuring atm, and that what makes me mad... Feel very blamed and pressured

Me:

What pressure?

And No u cant blame your distance on Mine because thats Not what happened

The distance came from fear..and i know that because Mine came from that too

I mean u Felt it u told me "how could i forget how much i loved u" this is what im talking about..

Him:

I'm talking about you mentioning it all the time.. It did come from fear, but you cant say that it had nothing to do with your distance, because it did a bit...

Well, i got scared too, and i also felt disconnected from you, from all teh stuff that happend, but that didnt mean that i stopped loving you, because i didnt

Me:

I dont know what to say right now

and that was it..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 30 2016 at 20:44
Member since: 19 August 2014
"all this time i always listened to: "u r my best friend", " u r the love of my life and so so special" ..i know how it feels when we r equal..i know how it is when he appreciates me and ESPECIALLY when the EQUAL part..and i have to say that twice because thats my biggest concern right now..EQUALITY between us, that means there is nothing he cant talk to me about and my opinion metters and IS the most important to him and he acutally WANTS to spend time with me because it metters to him and like he said i am "special" and he wants to impress me.."

Nobody can give a fig for equality, harmony or making efforts when in the midst of suffering discomfort from the cold, wind, rain, thunderstorms, lightning and the like. Put yourself in HIS shoes: no friends (bar you); no territory; unfamiliar environment, culture, language, customs; not enough personal possessions round him; no job (and pride in himself); barely any money; barely any day-to-day mental stimulation and challenge; your one 'friendly' face not happy with you, seemingly becoming the enemy (how crushing!)... That's the point of this break, to allow him to come back having made decisions to GET a job, MAKE some friends, and thereby have the wherewithal TO keep you happy and sweet...by making HIMSELF happier.

He still can't quite believe more than not that you're intending to take him back - improved attitudes and behaviour on his part or not - and hence is using that monetary windfall as a carrot, but one held to ransom (take me back and THEN I'll...). It's his insurance against not being allowed back, he thinks.

But this is your problem: you're expecting him to transform himself ALREADY. If he could do that then you wouldn't have called for a break, would you. The 'baby' will start its way down the 'birth canal' when it is ready to and not a moment sooner. It hasn't finished 'gestating'. So if in the meantime he's playing silly buggers with carrots intended to tempt you to let him SIDESTEP the absence from you that'll really firm up any vows he's currently making, then - BENT COIN ALERT! What are YOU supposed to do? SWITCH FROM ACTIVE TO STANDBY MODE. All the bent coin achieved was a WORSENING of the very situation he's desperately attempting to (literally!) put paid to.

But back to the conversation: "why tho? You don't trust me.. Because you ask alot about it.. And i tell you every time that thats the plan, and its our money"

No, pal - that's right - she *doesn't* trust you. Not to that extent. And we wonder why (duuh?).

He thinks it's the money itself (and obviously doesn't yet see how how he behaved broke or paused trust), but for you it's THE GESTURE AND WHAT IT WOULD SAY in terms of reassurance about his own attitudes (incl sense of obligation) and intentions. But at least this phrase of his - "That's very hurtful, and is honestly making me a bit mad" - is a sign of a more honest, conciliatory attitude thus approach. He could have just DONE mad and hurt (like before), couldn't he. Progress!

We have a saying here, and it goes, Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey... You're trying to rush things. You both are, just in different ways (albeit he more than you...he doesn't even wait for a response before sending his next text/thought). But actually, it's him...and you letting him.

New text phrase: 'Ok, this conversation is starting to deteriorate, I can tell. Time-Out for [pick a duration]. Call me again in [whatever time] and we'll carry on from where we left off'. And then shorten it next time to just 'Uh-oh, Time-Out time - X minutes/hours!'.

PS:

"Me: [Thats how i Felt a lot of Times].....49 minutes ago"

:-D (and how many seconds?)

*************

Yes, instead of trying to up his ante he looked for things with and by which to distract himself and postpone/delay. He still has yet to work out, by 'replaying the tapes', which was the cause and which was the effect (chicken versus egg).

That bit about, 'YOU used to do distractions, etc'. It's like I said before: he rushed you into cohabiting before having done the requisite wooing ( underpinning) work SO THAT once he'd moved in, you'd be on the same page as him, with the same appetite for suddenly being one of two peas in an ultra-cosy pod. Because the minute he moved in, he got the reassurance *he* needed so overtook you in terms of feelings and need of you, not helped by his having little else to "do" *except* for you. Mr S had the same teething trouble, seeing me as his only job and plaything and not letting me get used to suddenly having another adult constantly in the house, one that was basically following me around like a lost puppydog. It was stifling at times. But, unlike you (who is younger and less experienced), I sat him down and explained it was, plus helped him get a job for a year (where he made friends, including one that's now his bestie), and gave him things to do that didn't feature or centre around me so much.

This isn't about fault, though. It's about, having been out of synch. The fault lies with how you two DEALT with being out of synch. Like you say: not like you were a team. But the buck stops with him because you weren't in synch with him be-CAAAUUUUSE... he hadn't woo-ed you to as far up as him on the Trust path. So he still started it (mleugh, LOL). But this separation is what's going to GET you both in synch.

************

Oh, look - I see a backtrack: "but you cant say that it had nothing to do with your distance, because it did a bit..."

Ha-ha. A lot has suddenly become a bit. Again - LEEAAAR-NINNNNGGGG! :-)

"I dont know what to say right now"

GOOD ANSWER! Tantamount to 'Time-Out time!'. And of course you don't. It's too soon.

But there's definitely progress going on from what I can hear. Can you hear it?

PS: "and i got to a point where i felt like i had been trying for so long, and got nothing i nreturn."

Tell him (in your own words), 'You give up and open 'the oven door' just that bit too soon, that's your trouble, meaning, whatever it is you've been 'cooking' - this case, a souffle - needlessly, just for want of a little bit more patience and effort in terms of turning up the warmth, goes PLEUGH in the centre. Hand-in-hand on the TogetherForeverVille Pathway we may be and still want to be, but I've only got little legs, far shorter than your great lanky things with their giant stride... you've obviously forgotten that. Plus, my backpack was heavier than yours (and yet you refused to offer to help me carry it, like a gentleman). I basically got fed up of being dragged along the ground, knees getting sorer and sorer, so I sat down on the grass verge, just for a rest... Ok, my fault for not SAYING SO (my bad), but then when I was re-ready (or felt pressured to be, whether I was, truly, or not), knees tended to and Elastoplast-ed, you too had sat down....not to rest or patiently wait for me or inspire me with greater energy - JUST TO SULK!...and then refused to budge. So then I got fed-up of you ignoring me, feeling my choice was merely a Hobson's variety: sore, even bloodied knees versus getting ignored, even neglected, possibly discarded. Great. Is that how to treat a lady? So that's why I've called Time-Out.' (Let him picture it, see what a non-gentlemanly walking companion he's been.)

Oh, and stop texting. You need to have these conversations live over the phoneline (to avoid misunderstandings). Plus, hearing each others voices will 'mush you both up' and make you careful not to lose that 'quasi cuddle'.

************

But you're still doing great. And he better (...and there's the UP side to impatience).

Shouldn't take long now. :-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Mar 31 2016 at 21:01
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Should add, didn't mean, he doing better than you, just better than he was.)

Any update today, Nana? Or are you and he still constantly pow-wow-ing?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 1 2016 at 07:22
Member since: 27 January 2016
Yeah i got what u mean..he is doing better i think all in all, just have to be careful Not to Ruin it with a mental breakdown or something-jk, im being very much passive These days..

What do u mean by pow-wow-Ing again?

Hm..nothing Really happened so far..the Last 3 days i couldnt sleep..had an aweful cough and couldnt get rid of the restlessnes before going to bed, so yesterday Night while he was at his friends Place, i knocked myself out with some cough syrup..i missed sleeping do much..:D and before that we did Write a bit.. But he was very passive..i think he didnt like me being passive that much..(i think i know what u mean with "it shouldnt have Been easy from the Start...)

So everytime he wrote me, i wrote him back- if it was nice, i was too, if it was "i dont care-ish", i was too..but like i said he was passive yesterday and normally i wouldve written him First but i guess we have some new rules now..

Then we didnt Write eachother for some time and when i came home from after work drink(just one with a friend ;) ) he wrote me again.. I answered all the questions He had and asked him back and at some Point i fell asleep like a bby..Last think he wrote me was "r u asleep babe?" And that i answered this morning with "Hey honey, the syrup knocked me out yesterday"

So, me writing him First, is that ok or Not? I feel so Bad for him in a Way.. Hahaha..he has to work for it a lot right now..

And he wont give up will he?, just because he has to put in More afford?is his arguement "u r being distant, so i am distant" gonna come up again? and if so what should i tell him?oh and while we r at "what to tell him" the last thing u wrote me "tell him in your own words" could u make it a bit more simple for me? i mean i do unterstand it but not fully..oh and when should i say it?

Funny Story..some days ago i told him that im going to sleep and he said that i should maybe Write him in the Morning and then he said "u stopped writing me First :(" well..that started when he Moved here because i was alsways up first(had to work) i guess he got used to that the attention without making an effort..*oooh im staying passive now*

****************************************

from what ive understood is that im in a panic mode because of the "Equality-situation"..and yes i was/ am less now..any suggestions how i should view it? i mean yeah, from his point of view , and i should keep a positive attitude?..

what about the "take me back and THEN I'll.."?? is that what he is thinking now? it is, isnt it? and now? should i just continue being the passive part? or does that even have something to do with it?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 1 2016 at 08:05
Member since: 27 January 2016
i have to say im kinda worried if he will give up..is there somthing i can do for him not to?..
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 1 2016 at 12:09
Member since: 27 January 2016
great..now he is playing mind games again..

he answered me when he woke up with "okay, haha" and i wrote back "hahaha" and he didnt even wanna look at the message, but he is online..that is slightly making me mad..

he is doing all of this on purpose..and this is happening over and over again.. *AARRG*

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 1 2016 at 20:57
Member since: 19 August 2014
Pow-wow = Peace talk.

"So everytime he wrote me, i wrote him back- if it was nice, i was too, if it was "i dont care-ish""

Nearly. Very nearly. But not quite. If he writes, IF WHAT HE WRITES IS NICE/PLEASING, and isn't a brief one-liner, you write back, and timely-ly (- ? er) so. If what he writes DOESN'T please/isn't befitting/whatever, you read it but think "PFF!" and wander off to do something else on your To-Do list. He either has to wait (for his ONE PIECE of choccie bar) (for having written at all) or might decide to ping you again, having worked out that, whoops, he must have said or behaved in a way that was wrong. You're re-training him just a little... 'pimping your ride'.... showing him you're a lady that should be treated accordingly. Because you failed to do so back when in Honeymoon Period. (Better late than never? :-))

"So, me writing him First, is that ok or Not? "

Initiating, you mean. Keep it to about one in every third email of his (since you're already steadies, not newbies). Again, a choccie dispensing machine doesn't suddenly let rip with a free bar, does it. However, it would (if it were sentient) if he were a regular, paying customer, i.e. 'you've spent so much 'money' on me these last three days (times) running, you've earned yourself a free bar'. (Got it now?)

PS: Always try to keep your emails roughly the same 'size' as his or just under. Don't allow a situation where he merely says, 'Alright?' and you respond with a thousand-word essay. And don't POUNCE on them. If he took 1 hr to respond to your last, YOU leave it 1 hr minimum before you respond. Money in - choccie bar out. Money too slowly in - choccie bar too slowly/even slower out.

It's called, Mirroring, but adjusting down a tad (for the fact you're the woo-ee, not the woo-er).

That way, if you ARE 'distant', he can 'join the [now copious] dots' between what he put in and what he got out... and realise HE HAS TOTAL CONTROL OVER WHAT HE GETS OUT. No, he won't give up - he'll enjoy it.

Think about the shiny new BMW that the bloke spends all his free time washing and polishing and bragging about: "Yah, it took me bloomin' MONTHS AND MONTHS of overtime at work and cutting back to afford it... Isn't it a beaut? Hey, don't lean on it, you'll leave finger-marks!". The harder and longer a man has had to earn his perk, the more into it he is.

What you tell him is anything your imagination can come up with that sounds perfectly plausible (or the truth if you're genuinely trying to keep yourself busy?). Was out shopping, was out having coffee with 'Sharon', was washing my hair, having a bath, friend phoned, mum phoned, fell asleep, was hoovering, engrossed in a brilliant film, I'm still out of the habit of checking my texts and mails - and didn't see it at first..... Whatever.

********

"the last thing u wrote me "tell him in your own words" could u make it a bit more simple for me? i mean i do unterstand it but not fully..oh and when should i say it?"

You tell me what you think you understood it to mean or what you're unsure about and then I'll see whether you've got it or indeed need a re-wording. Fair enough?

(Say it to him once an opportunity arises, when it's apropos of the conversation from his side. Or, make it an 'Ooh, by the way, I've been thinking about what and how went a bit wrong between us and...'. But wait until you can 'hear' he's receptive or he himself is trying to offer a 'summing-up'.)

********

And you're learning too, look:

"Funny Story..some days ago i told him that im going to sleep and he said that i should maybe Write him in the Morning and then he said "u stopped writing me First Crying" well..that started when he Moved here because i was alsways up first(had to work) i guess he got used to that the attention without making an effort..*oooh im staying passive now*"

:-)

*********

"from what ive understood is that im in a panic mode because of the "Equality-situation"..and yes i was/ am less now..any suggestions how i should view it? i mean yeah, from his point of view , and i should keep a positive attitude?.."

I'll have to leave that until later or tomorrow now (it's supper time here, and I'm the chef).

*********

"what about the "take me back and THEN I'll.."?? is that what he is thinking now? it is, isnt it? and now? should i just continue being the passive part? or does that even have something to do with it?"

Yes, you ignore all such blackmailing or bribery attempts. E.g., 'Got some money? Ooh, *very* nice.'. Let him TELL YOU what he intends to spend/save it on. This is you 'giving him the floor' so that you can see precisely what he's capable of or incapable of or just needing a *little* leg-up from you, meaning, in that instance, you'd have said, '...*very* nice... What are you going to spend it on? Anything special?'

********

If he gives up now, he was never qualified to chase and woo a woman in the first place, meaning, you must have given him a series of 50ft ladders, let alone any mere leg-ups. And you don't want an inept partner, a child in a grown-up-man suit, do you. I see no signs, however, that he's liable to give up. Do you?

...on which note...

"he answered me when he woke up with "okay, haha" and i wrote back "hahaha" and he didnt even wanna look at the message, but he is online..that is slightly making me mad..

he is doing all of this on purpose..and this is happening over and over again.. *AARRG*"

When they'd rather NOT have to change, they try to force their usual bag of tricks onto you. See it as him trying to hammer a nail into a wall (you're the wall), but not succeeding due to refusing to just pick up the bloody hammer, instead insisting on using an unripe banana...followed by his slipper heel... followed by the unripe banana again... followed by a book.... then back to the banana... They'll try anything - over and over or switching between all wrong/futile methods - except the right thing ("THE BLOODY HAMMER!") when they're in that silly, resistant and rebellious frame of mind. But if he genuinely ever wants to see that framed picture up on his wall, sooner or later he'll have to concede defeat and do it the right way. Berbom.

In application - me? - I wouldn't have responded to that 'okay haha' AT ALL. I'd have waited to see if he'd returned to correct himself.

He was obviously experiencing a bout of huge negativity, anxiety and paranoia at that point, but trying to make out he was amused (pff) to save face.

You'll find him switching between Mr Wonderful and Mr A-hole quite regularly until he's had more time. Ignore it, keep your eye on the end prize.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 2 2016 at 13:35
Member since: 27 January 2016
so, i was rereading some of the older messages and what came to my mind is that he said:

"It was also triggered by your distance, you showed alot of that. Don't forget that the behavior with distractions and so on, was what YOU did in the past

We talked alot about us both going through it, because we did, as in you did the EXACT same thing

and i got to a point where i felt like i had been trying for so long, and got nothing i nreturn.

So tell me about feeling not wanted, and not special, because i was there, for a LONG time. "

-> so, i have to say that i was in some way distant..at first i wasnt even sure IF i was interested, but the more we new eachother the more i wanted him..but there was some distance because it wasnt rly real for me..and he felt it..but what im also asking myself now is what if this "distance" from my side that he felt wasnt there thaaat much and it was more him and his semi woo-ing? like what if he felt so insecure that thats why(not forgetting the fact that i made it a bit easy for him) he stopped woo-ing?like he said in the second last sentence above..maybe he realy isnt able to do it because of his insecurities?

he often told me (after he moved here) how his mom made him question women a lot..like her being like she was..

**************************************

"You tell me what you think you understood it to mean or what you're unsure about and then I'll see whether you've got it or indeed need a re-wording. Fair enough?"

i have to say i wasnt even sure when to say it, like when WHAT topic comes up, but here is what i understood from it:

well first of all its about his distance and him "giving up too soon", right?

so i should basically explain to him that he gave up too soon? and that he was "ready-er" in the first place to do all of that and that he didnt give me time and help to get there by woo-ing me(which he never completed)?->im not going to mentioned the woo-ing part tho right?

i have to rethink the order of the bullet points tho hahah

**************************************

the pow-wow-ing doesnt last long with us at the moment..

**************************************

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 2 2016 at 14:02
Member since: 27 January 2016
it is kind of hard for me not to have any contact with him and why i am saying this is because this is our conversations right now because im refusing to initiate yet:

HIM:

Okay haha

ME:

Hahaha

...(that u knew about)

hours later..:

HIM:

babe...

GOing to my grandparents baby

ME:

Hey bby

Ok well honey, for lunch? Say hi from me

HIM:

For aftnoon coffee, and dinner.later kiss emoticon

ME:

Thats nice kiss emoticon

Im leaving in some Minutes kiss emoticon

HIM:

Okay.. Where to?

ME:

Home bby hahaha, i worked today

HIM:

Oh hahha.. Thought you were.going some where kiss emoticon

ME:

No honey, now home and maybe a but later to the dog ladies

HIM:

Okay babe.. kiss emoticon

ME:

We r Gonna go out maybe and im Gonna sleep there because im working tomorrow kiss emoticon

Just so u know honey kiss emoticon

HIM:

Okay honey.. kiss emoticon

ME:

kiss emoticon

AND THAT WAS IT..since yesterday..

i went out yesterday with a friendand some of her boyfriends friends..he is "p*ssed" i guess..why? because i am going out and having fun?i mean i think he is mad, im not sure..but he is being stubborn right now..doesnt wanna write me (yesterday after hours he atleast did write just to say that he is leaving but still wrote) its really strange, like i said, not being in contact atleast every 1,5 hours..and ive missed that man for a long time now..since he moved here and the stress began..

*********************************************

just to be clear here:

do i ever mention that i am doing what im doing? just not writing him because he should? no, right? i mean yes u said that i should say i had something to do from my to do list but i dont mean while we r having the conversation, but more what if there is no conversation at all? what should i say why i didnt write him the whole day if he asks and he will..

*********************************************

do u know if that "late training" works for sure? hahah

*********************************************

"I'll have to leave that until later or tomorrow now (it's supper time here, and I'm the chef). "

please do :) and thanks

*********************************************

its been a week now in the break( i think ) im kinda having the feeling like we r ( like i mentioned with the starting the conversation) distancing ourselves even more..or am i panicing over nothing right now?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 2 2016 at 15:25
Member since: 27 January 2016
ps.

"I see no signs, however, that he's liable to give up. Do you? "

ive already mentioned 2 things above i think that scared or confused me about him maybe giving up

1.) "he often told me (after he moved here) how his mom made him question women a lot..like her being like she was.. "

2.) his insecurity

and then something else came up

3.) when we were talking to the skype guy ( u recall "the flirting") that guy was telling me and my bf how women have the ability to turn your life around/turn u around and that "women r always right" and "happy wife happy life"..i do know that under the curcumstances my bf said "he is talking sh*it" and "..since when?" because he was mad i was "flirting" but that kind of sounded and looked like i wasnt worth him being like that eventho I MADE HIM STOP SMOKING WEED and HE STARTED TO TURN HIS LIFE AROUND FOR ME..and now?

4.)some months ago, i guess when everything started being way too much and the distance started we randomly talked about narcissism and he read some online articles about it (i saw an even more recent one he read according his history) and he said that he is suspencting being one..

->two things pop up in my mind, him either being one and therefore not being able to try harder or him being confused because he distanced himself (we didnt know why back then) and thinking "i guess im a narcissist and thats why" but the truth being that its just an excuse? do u know what i mean?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 2 2016 at 15:42
Member since: 27 January 2016
last one, sorry for spamming, i keep forgetting my questions or what i wanted to say:

ok, so we r also out of sync because he didnt woo-ed me enough..i have to think about that one..because want do u mean with sync exactly? i think u already mentioned it some time ago now..and how is the break going to bring us back to it? that i would like to know :)

sorry again, its weekend and im home now so i have plenty of time on my hands to analyse it and therefore write u..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 2 2016 at 21:29
Member since: 27 January 2016
okay..now im freaking out and super sad..

he wrote me earlier finally:

HIM:

what's happening between us now babe?

ME:

hey baby

what do u mean?

HIM:

we haven't spoken for 2 days...

ME:

i know we havent..

glad u wrote me

HIM:

well.. I felt like i was the only one initiating us talking, so i stopped for some time, and i didnt hear anything from you.. :S

ME:

u werent all the time

HIM:

No, but i just felt like most of the times.. Like mornings and so on.. I don't know, i just had the feeling that you didnt wanna talk..

i always want to talk to u

HIM:

Well.. AS i said, just had the feeling.. Especially when we are doing all this and so on..

ME:

yeah i get that

u shouldnt tho

HIM:

Okay.. Guess it has alot to do with me to.. Feeling like shit atm, and so split between everything... Can't really figure anything out..

ME:

skype?

...

when he called me he right away started talking about how aweful it is in denmark..the mood in his dads flat is aweful..its a depressing/mad crazy house..he just had a fight with his dads aweful wife..(she seems to be a bitch) and his younger brother and sister didnt go to school for a week because they r sad..he feels very bad and i guess its a guilty conscience that is bothering him towards his small brother he left,after his mom died, with the idiotic dad...

he told me that he doesnt feel home anywhere..and he didnt even miss his friends and his dad and denmark ( i said i knew that from the start but he had to go there to see that its not what he has missed and that one of the reason why he went is because it should make him see that he has to find himself in vienna so he can be happy..) he said that he doesnt know anything anymore...i dont think he heard anything i said..

saying he doesnt know what to do, or who he is..what he wants..he doesnt know nothing and he is so split..

and then at some point i wanted to say because he asked me if i danced with any guys when i was out "hey btw the thing with the guy friends and so on blablabla.." but it turned into a whole discussion..

i just wanted to say that he was right about the thing with the skype guy and that i thought about him having a problem with me having "so many" guy friends and that im a lady and have him so me having so much contact with guys is gonna end..but the ONLY thing he heard is that he was right and i was wrong and then he said " this is always such a big problem.over and over again..and sometimes u dont even listen to me, i cant talk to u and then u come to me after days and say that im right.."

made it sound like he is the one who is going to decide if he wants to do that or not...

he also said "thats what i meant when i went away, that im not sure if i can deal with that"...

am i sending mixed signs? he is so helpless right now..i tried explaining to him that we were out of sync and the break would help us with it..i dont think i did a good job with that but however i think me making an effort explaining to him all of that and trying to help him made it worse in a way..

before, we also talked about how i wasnt writing him and he didnt know what was going on and i said that when i felt neglected and it was one of the reasons why he went to denmark its not the best thing to do just not to write me and expect me to do it..i knew that he will think something is up..or wrong..u read it above its the frist time we r doing something like this and its the first time we havent talked in 2 days..

someone needs to talk to him and help him out..i would ask u but i wouldnt know how..

i dont know how to help him right now at all..

jeez..did i maybe react to much now? i mean the stuff u read is what i wrote and how i wrote but the rest..i think that i maybe tried and explained too much(regarding the guy friends)..

at some point he said "well im kinda very late right now and my friends r waiting for me at their place and he doesnt wanna end it like this but" and then he said they r going drinking and after that clubbing..or in a pub.. i said have fun and he took of saying he is going to write me when he is there i said ok and he did..

now hes playing the game again..(or not because he is at his friends place?) where he doesnt answer right away..

i mean what the F like seriously..when im not writing him and he has to, like above mentioned, then he thinks we r already done, more or less..and when i do, then he thinks he can do what ever he wants without thinking about my feelings..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 3 2016 at 05:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
Bump (for later today - bear with...).
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 3 2016 at 14:45
Member since: 19 August 2014
Good g-RIEF, what is he LIKE?! And what's he making YOU like?! I thought Mr S was bad enough during that early stage whenever he was away, but this boy makes him back then look like a sleeping Bhuddist monk!

This is what I'm seeing: him panicking and whittling (and constantly prodding THE WRONG WAY for reassurances).... doing enough of that, all over you, until the point, inevitably, where YOU become infected and so begin THINKING you're doing badly (and whittling all over me), when you're in fact managing to stay perfectly rational, logical and level-headed. (I'll *tell* you if ever you're making any mistakes or ones that actually count and affect anything that requires correcting - okay?)

...But then, BECAUSE he's infected you with his worrying and whittling - the minute he DOES start to enjoy himself (on an evening with his friends) and therefore obviously can't be as attentive to his texts as usual, you don't like it, see it as meaning something threatening (him going off you and/or not considering your feelings) and start climbing your own walls!

He's supposed to be having a HOLIDAY...RELAXING and having some FUN [as are you!], tell him! Thinking about what things went slightly wrong between you both doesn't automatically take having to sit huddled in a cold, dusty, lonely attic, chewing on stale bread crusts, moaning, 'Woe is me', for goodness' sake. He can background think whilst he's out and about, talking walks, seeing his friends, watching TV or playing boardgames with his siblings - whatever - and then wait to receive the mini epiphanies in the moments before falling asleep.

Tell him, will he please STOP panicking and creating all this angst for himself and you. You're NOT INTERESTED in other men, or romance WITH ANYONE right now. You need to de-stress and enjoy some vital Me Time (as does he), which is fast running out and getting wasted... which is going to mean you're going to need him to stay there *another* week before he can come home!

Look, Nana, he can't cope with this. OBVIOUSLY. So he's READING mixed messages into everything. So you're going to have to throw the poor puppy a bone. Tell him,...

...You and he are NOT over (don't be so ridiculous), he IS coming home (ONCE YOU'VE BOTH DE-STRESSED) - the only question there, being a case of By When (not If); you *learnt* your lesson last time so are *not* going to cheat on him or even let some bloke dance with you or put one pinkie finger on you (tell him, at THIS rate he's more liable to send you into the arms of a WOMAN!, ha-ha); and that all you wanted to achieve, aside from de-stressing (both of you) and being able to chat more calmly and openly/bravely than when cooped and squished up in your flat, was for him to come back with better appreciation of and considerateness toward you (and the relationship, and the lion's share weight that you carry, being financier and feeling responsible for his total welfare) so that he could remember to start treating you like a lady, NOT LIKE HIS BLOODY SISTER! - which includes him being the masterful man and primary, i.e. lion's-share, initiator (instead of trying to leave it too much to you) - and so that hopefully he should end up coming back inspired and enthused enough to get himself a little part-time bar job or something instead of sitting around doing not much more than playing on the internet and getting more and more uncooperative, selfish and blinkered. IS that such a big ask? IS that call for such drama and hysteria? No - stop it! Go and relax and have fun so that I can do the same and we can start to more clearly see where we've been going wrong, THE PAIR OF US. No more big, heavy conversations in bits strewn throughout the day, save it for when you're both tucked up in bed at night (although obviously he or you can text 'I'm having a wobble, help!' if your minds start running riot negatively in the meantime).

IS that better, DOES he understand, now, CAN he cease driving himself and you to distraction now and start treating this as a POSITIVE break meant for HIS benefit as well as your own? Where's the man that used to make you blush, giggle, laugh, swoon, etcetera? You want more of him BACK. Can he PLEASE do what he's supposed to be doing so that that guy can get a word in and Mr A-Hole can go back to sleepy-bye-byes so that MISS A-hole doesn't keep getting dragged out to play and help cause mischief!

**********

Are you giving mixed messages? No. Maybe you haven't strictly been clear enough, but, mostly, he's just being INCREDIBLY insecure and 'paranoid' right now.

He's obviously had a terrible time, before meeting and living with you... and now is back 'in the lion's den' with his difficult dad. I didn't know his mum (obviously his favourite parent) had died. No *wonder* he's been acting anywhere between stroppy and lethargic/apathetic. He's probably, with all that time on his hands, been trying to work things out in his mind. And he's not quite FIT for a job, is he, with all of that going on in his head.

I'm now thinking he'd been just helping himself to a period of respite, courtesy of you and your generosity, patience and kindness, but not explaining that need and where it'd come from, out-loud, to you. Or maybe because he wasn't aware himself? But he needs to try, in future, to tell you how he's feeling WHEN he's feeling, not let it come out in his behaviour (as if that's some kind of Communication method (pff!)).

I think *he* needs counselling (to get over his past) but that, because you're now 'part' of him - his teammate - so do you. Or have you got all these kinds of latent issues as well?

Alternative to counselling - why doesn't he FORGET his mum and dad's 'messages' about what relationships and women are supposedly like, blah-blah-BITTER-TWISTED-BLAH, and make up his OWN mind... by doing things right with you (right = you with a gormless grin on your face) (and his) so that HE can be BETTER than that pair of idiots as well as prove them and anyone else WRONG. *Tell him that*.

************

Okay? Better? What have I left out that you REALLY, ACTUALLY need to know the meaning of?

(Not exasperated with you, btw. It's him. I want to tie him to a chair and slap the idiot out of him. If only I were Mr Tickle and could reach that far. :-p)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 3 2016 at 14:49
Member since: 19 August 2014
"which is going to mean you're going to need him to stay there *another* week before he can come home!"

Sorry, I mean, END UP meaning needing another week - if he doesn't try to change his whittley, angsty tune, that is.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 3 2016 at 19:00
Member since: 27 January 2016
here is the convo from today after i fell asleep on him while he was out and writing me when he felt like it..see i dont even rly egt his attention at all..like ist bugging him to talk to me..and that was before he moved not at all..its like he saw me in a way he didnt like at all, eventho i reacted to some stuff like i did because i was in stress and panic having someone next to me totally consuming me..and u can also read it below..i just dont get it soulmate..its like he lost respect..however he it goes:

ME:

Fell asleep honey

HOURS LATER WHEN HE WOKE UP..

HIM:

Okay.....

ME:

hey bby

HIM:

hm.. Just go to sleep without saying anything.. Even tho i wrote you yesterday, so we would just talk abit, instead of doing a week or something like that without talking..

ME:

u were with your friends honey, and i just fell asleep, when u wanna talk u can call me up thats no problem

HIM:

Well.. I would just like to feel that you also wanna talk, just a bit, instead of saying, you can write me, or call me.. And then we can chat

ME:

i always write u back, u r my boyfriend, ofc i do, when i feel the same thing

HIM:

Maybe its just me, because of all the stuff that's going..

on..

ME:

yeah i think so too

HOURS LATER Again..

HIM:

babyyy

ME:

bbyy

HIM:

you at your moms?

ME:

no im home

u at your dads?

hahaha

HIM:

i am kiss emoticon

eating pizza with my brother now

just went to pick it up

and a bit of chocolate

i love you baby... I want us to talk to each other..

I dont want us to do stubborn games, with not writing each other..

ME:

i love u my love

i totally agree

tell your brother that i think he is super cool and great

he is a sweetheart and he should know that

he has fans hahaha

HIM:

do you? kiss emoticon

I told him hahaha

he asked "why is she saying that?"

ME:

because its true hahah

(he doesnt hear that enough)

i do haha

HIM:

He doesn't.. DOn't worry, i told him baby haha

Aren't you going to your moms today? kiss emoticon

ME:

thats good

no or maybe

im not sure i had breakfast and im trying to make home made tortillas..dont have enough mehl haha+

HIM:

home made tortitalas? grin emoticon

Babyyyy

orh, im so proud kiss emoticon

ME:

hahaha yeah im trying, because i wanna make some rlly good quesedilas

HIM:

such a good idea..

but do you have stuff for it?

ME:

hahaha its not hard i just need more mehl

HIM:

babyy

i meant like for quesedillas etc kiss emoticon

ME:

i do, have everything

went shopping yesterday

HIM:

someone a little hausefrau haha

ME:

hahah

oh

i have to

HIM:

a heart

for me?

haha

thought you stopped sending me that

ME:

hahaha

honey

HIM:

i can't deal with this, like seriously..

If you're gonna be that distant

its gonna fuck shit up..

I get that you don't feel appreciated, but when we are doing this, and i am trying.. Its hard when you turn mega distance on..

The thing you said yesterday, with me making you happy.. There is nothing i want but for you to be happy, but me going to austria put me in dark hole.. I didnt stop loving you, i just lost myself.

That's why i was trying so hard, to make us work..

I don't know what to say, but that it doesnt just have to do with my distance, it also has to do with yours, we both felt very not appreciated.

and i'm just saying that, i can't fix my distance, and show you how much i really love you, when you don't do it either, and i don't feel like you want me either..

ME:

did u ever hear the quote " u get what u give"?

HIM:

I did, and that's exactly what i mean

ME:

and this is a normal question u know

ok

well see..i understand what happened by u coming here..a shock

u didnt build your life again..and u gave up too soon..i understand what happened but know is the time to say im going to turn it around imma build that life so i can be content with it

and then u r going to be more capable of anything (generally speaking for everyone)

HIM:

........

:S

i didnt want a quote, or a psycology advice

i just wanted to talk to you

ME:

i am talking to u thats what i think..i mean what i wanted to say is regarding the distance from my side u just gave up too soon..like the time i opened the banana bread oven..hahaha sry but hoenstly now i needed a bit more time and u didnt give me that time but im not incapable of it i want it very much but u just gave up

HIM:

I did need to kick myself, and i still do. To start the life in Austria, and with you. But as you're well aware of (because you're in it now too) THe distance does something to a person.. ANd me getting distant, was because of as already talked about, alot of stuff.. THe distance from your side, me moving away from everything, me losing myself, but also a defesnive mechanism, against me being scared of losing you to other guys.. Because of all the guys around you, and feelin you seek guys around you alot of the time.. THe things that happend with Pepi (scared of it happening again) And alot of small signs that to me looked like that was big reasons to be scared... It didnt have to do with me being scared of you fucking me over, it had to do with me being scared of losing you to another guy again, and it broke my heart back then, even tho it was that soon, but i know it would destroy me now. I dont know if i told you these exact words before, or put it like this, but it has alot to do with the distance.. Ofc also with me being damaged, and dealing with betrayal and being left, from my childhood.. But as i already told you, that creates good reasons, or atleast just reasons to why i can't really deal with guy friends.. It makes me feel like we're not a team.. Like why does she need other guys, and what can happend with those other guys.. I never felt someone love, or loved someone truly, not until i started loving you, so that's why it hit me very hard to, to not feel wanted, or not being able to see you show the emotions that you mentioned you had for me... I do need to start my life, but i got stuck.. Because of my distance, because it made everything very uncertain for me, and it made me question stuff... IT didnt make me stop loving you, because i never will, but it did make me question if i could do all of that... If i could deal with the fear of losing you, and especially to someone else...

ME:

thank u saying all of that

if u need it im going to give it to u

but only if we r equal again..

and i want it more then anything..

HIM:

I'm not gonna lie, i did lose a bit of the feeling of equality, because i let the past affect it, but because of some of the stuff that happend too.. It made me chocked, and i didnt think that was how you were thinking, or what you would do in those situations.. I have to come to terms with the being human, as you did with me too, because going from the long distance, were everything was perfect, to dealing with all the obstacles..

Had alot to do with me trying to protect myself too, with the stuff i saw, and heard with other guys, made me scared that it was something you would/could do while you were with me.. And me having a hard time to let that go because of my having no trust for anyone or anything...

ME:

listen, u were too quick for me..i havent adjusted yet and u just focused on me...i wasnt there yet u know i needed more time and then i did a mistake and said "ok lets fuck this fight or that fight" and gave u the impression that it would be ok with me..u didnt give me enough time thats all and me acting a certain way in situations is out of pure panic and because i felt attacked

all of these litle mistakes we did back then was pure panic and i understood that, it didnt make u this terrible person or anything..it was pure inexperience

HIM:

There is nothing i wanted more than the team feeling, but i felt like you didnt do that, even tho you requested it from me all the time.. And it made me withdraw, and feel like we weren't a team, because of that... Because of alot of small things, like: Hearts/Kiss smilies with guys, that's a small thing, but that makes me feel like we're special and that we're a team, and that i am special to you.. Hanging out with other guys, and finding new guy friends.. I thought i was the only guy you needed, and that hurts me when, you want new guy friends, because i dont want girlfriends, at all... ANd it just seemed like you sought it alot.. Like, you have more guy friends than me.. The stuff you said about money, and asking for "your" money, or atleast it sounds like that, it makes me feel like i am not a part of you, or that we aren't close at all..ANd the thing with abdul.. I dont want you dancing with any guys at all, i mean, i can't do that... Us being a team like that, makes me think that you dont need to dance with any other guys, because i dont need to dance with other girls, at all..If i wanna dance, i am gonna dance with my girl, which is, and always will be you..

ME:

and btw when u have a thought just mention that and we can talk about it but dont throw all of that at me at once

cant talk it through properly

HIM:

I know it had alot to do with not being experienced, especially for me, i mean its my first relationship..

I am sorry for bombing you, but i need to get it out.. I know its alot, and you don't have to answer all of it, ofc. Process it, and tell me later when you reflected, or what you need.. I just had to get it out, because it explains stuff really good, all of this..

I made alot of mistakes, and i am a damaged person. So this isn't about blaming you for everything, at all..

But i am there for mentioning all of this, partially because of me being damage, or and both of us haha.. And that's why it makes stuff hard..

ME:

is someone there?could u talk? i think stuff like this has to be talked over not in chat

HIM:

honey

there's always people here haha

:'D *

but we can talk

ME:

good

HIM:

come skype, i'll smoke quick tho

**********************************************

in skype we didnt rly talk much..at some point he got mad because there was men when i was out (hm..i cant rly control that can i?)

he is playing the whole time..he took some time to skype with me but a lot of the time he was clicking around and surfing while i was talking or while he was..

he does have to have it (counseling) but what else? he lost respect..i did too for that matter but still..

the whole time when we talk or most of it its him metioning problems and just saying " and this and that and this" ..and im like we have to solve it one by one then and trying to look into it but he gets depressed and like "this is sooo much *crycrycry*"..

**********************************************

id like to talk to him like he is into me u know, like he has an interest in me as a person..but it seems like he doesnt and what does he do instead? same old:goes and plays "w.o.w" with a 16year old kid..

**********************************************

its like he never left..

and dont worry he is staying there atleast a month still..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 4 2016 at 19:28
Member since: 27 January 2016
Here a Little Addition:im going to come back later because there is some stuff id like Mention still

After we said Good night Last Night :

ME:

Honey

HIM:

yes babe?

ME:

I cant let this one go with now

Right*

HIM:

what do you mean baby?

let what go?

ME:

I have a more precise answer to the question what is Bugging me Most right now and its u seeing im through a Mistake or curcumstance that happen.. For me that is a Big thing and a Big unfair and ignorant thing that bugs the shit out of me

Thats what bugs me a lot

And u viewing it on a Way Which isnt rly what happened bit because u know a familiar Situation u r putting me in that Frame like "yeah this is what made happened" "this is what and why she did this and that"

Might*

HIM:

Honey, i love you more than anything, and i always will.. Even tho we're struggling.. Me being damaged from the past is a thing im dealing with on almost a daily basis.. And i am aware of what is triggering it, as i said earlier.. Give me a bit of time to get rid of it.. I'm sorry that you have to feel bad about that, i really am... But youre the person i talk to about everything, and i wont change that..Let me be your rock, as you are mine, and trust me that it first of all isn't anything you have to worry about, and that its gonna pass..

So many changes happening in my life right now, i'm going through the biggest soul searching journey i ever did, and a big part of it is because of you.. And that's the most special thing i ever experienced in my life..

Its very hard, but for the better... I'm sorry, but also thankful that you're the one i have to share/put through this..

We're growing together baby..

ME:

I know we r.. But i had to make some Things clear..

I want to be Seen for who i am and Things that happened in the past for this and that reason i dont want to be Seen through them..

This is Not only about u it is also about me

Shitty situations and aweful stuff made some of my best qualities, so there is reasons and always will be why i am who i am and then Taking something which Needs More understanding and clearification and just judging me by that is very ignorant..

HIM:

Honey, i know its not only about you.. I am sorry that is seems selfish of me, but i also told you why it happend, and what caused it..

Just saying that made me understand alot more, about it and myself..

ME:

I know it did.. And i was very patient( as i could be as an unpatient Person) but its Needs More it Needs Processing the right Way and then healing..No pressure tho hahaha No but seriously..u might think u know what happened but u dont Fully..

I would like to talk about our past again because with everytime stuff get mentioned i am more able to understand myself and also explain it

HIM:

Maybe i dont fully understand it, and need to have your own version, since you were the one in it..

I think that would be a good idea, to let fully go of the past, but also maybe understand some more stuff about each other and our selves

ME:

Yes exactly and for me to let go is for u to get it..and for is to find a common understand and with that the equality back because it lacks on Both sides and i guess that would contribute a lot

HIM:

Would be really good for us baby..

Are you feeling better? kiss emoticon

ME:

Hahaha

Kind of

HIM:

only kind of?

haha

ME:

Its a Start

Hahaha

And u?

HIM:

I am feeling better.baby.. Were.not gonna sleep until its good tho.. Fyi haa

ME:

What hahah

U switched to your phone

HIM:

Before you feel good* haha

I did.. Went up for a smoke.. Couldnt.bring pc haha

ME:

I have to sleep tho

Because it being good again would mean that u got me and thats Not Gonna Happen over night

HIM:

THe stuff with Pepi(my ex) tho, i get that all the stuff with your mom, and us being so far apart, and not being sure if it happend or not, was a big butden.. And him cheating on you, and feeling like you weren't good enough made you feel really bad.. I do get that you had to prove something to yourself... I probably would've done the same thing...

ME:

So here we go huh? Hahahah

HIM:

We're very alike..

Different stuff happened to us, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't have done the same stuff, if we experienced exactly the same stuff

do you understand? haha

ME:

I do understand

HIM:

Gonna really try to change stuff now..

If you keep doing the same stuff, you're gonna end up the same place.

ME:

What do u mean?

HIM:

I wanna go back to the mindset i had, before i left denmark..

This setback doesn't mean that i am not on the right path... Because i know where i wanna go, i just have to get on the right course again.. As in how i was, when i was at a better me..

You really should sleep tho babe haha

ME:

Its fine im going to

Im glad that u r seeing it like that again

HIM:

I Really am

ME:

What does that include?

HIM:

It includes understanding, ambition, self esteem and focus..

ME:

I think i can hear my honey speak hahaha

HIM:

hahaha

ME:

And less kilos, ofc

hahaha

But also changing the "negative glasses"

i wanna see the world more positively again..

Get out of the hole that i am in..

ME:

Im so happy to hear that..

Nice Quote btw

HIM:

which? hahaha

ME:

About doing the Same thing over again

HIM:

i heard it from a very wise person..

A real quote lover

haha

ME:

Hahahah heart emoticon

I cant help it a lot of it is just so damn true

And believe it or Not One or two quotes made me think Twice about stuff

So i appretiate it

HIM:

Its healthy brain food haha

ME:

Lets end this now.. So we can Reflect and shit without adding More

Good Night honey kiss emoticon

HIM:

Good idea baby

SLeep tight.. I love you heart emoticon

ME:

I love u babe heart emoticon

This one is for equality

HIM:

baby heart emoticon

hahaha

Süsseeee

ME:

Ok Bye hahahah

HIM:

bye hahaha

My Beautiful baby heart emoticon

I miss you so much...

ME:

I miss u..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 5 2016 at 16:23
Member since: 19 August 2014
Wow! And ROFL! He says he doesn't want a psych lecture but then starts opening up like a little flower on Acid! :-D...

"I did need to kick myself, and i still do. To start the life in Austria, and with you. But as you're well aware of (because you're in it now too) THe distance does something to a person.. ANd me getting distant, was because of as already talked about, alot of stuff.. THe distance from your side, me moving away from everything, me losing myself, but also a defesnive mechanism, against me being scared of losing you to other guys.. Because of all the guys around you, and feelin you seek guys around you alot of the time.. THe things that happend with Pepi (scared of it happening again) And alot of small signs that to me looked like that was big reasons to be scared... It didnt have to do with me being scared of you fucking me over, it had to do with me being scared of losing you to another guy again, and it broke my heart back then, even tho it was that soon, but i know it would destroy me now. I dont know if i told you these exact words before, or put it like this, but it has alot to do with the distance.. Ofc also with me being damaged, and dealing with betrayal and being left, from my childhood.. But as i already told you, that creates good reasons, or atleast just reasons to why i can't really deal with guy friends.. It makes me feel like we're not a team.. Like why does she need other guys, and what can happend with those other guys.. I never felt someone love, or loved someone truly, not until i started loving you, so that's why it hit me very hard to, to not feel wanted, or not being able to see you show the emotions that you mentioned you had for me... I do need to start my life, but i got stuck.. Because of my distance, because it made everything very uncertain for me, and it made me question stuff... IT didnt make me stop loving you, because i never will, but it did make me question if i could do all of that... If i could deal with the fear of losing you, and especially to someone else..."

See? He *does* know what's what and why (and that he's the lead sower-reaper in that there field of love food).

But now to you and something you've been doing MAJORLY wrong:

Bf is quite correct. Even if on meeting him you thought 'Ew!' about some interested bloke, men know that a woman has a secret 'button' inside her that, if pushed enough times, consistently, in order of pressure (light, light, heavier, heavier, heavier), it's only a matter of time before that 'working o her' makes her her primitive dating programme activate to "RUN", meaning, that 'unattractive, boring, pain-in-the-a*se, not my type anyway' bloke suddenly starts looking, MMM, HOT!..... all the way to I LOVE HIM! (So bf has just confessed that he *did* know what to do but didn't feel like it - couldn't pull himself up by the boot-straps - because he was too busy nurturing negative, persecution-complex thoughts and trying to hold his heart out of your (seeming) fist's reach.

Basically, what happened to him way back when - and then between you both in your flat - put him/triggered him back into FEMALE THINKING, thinking of himself as the Done-To/Easy Victim rather than the Do-To/Victimiser - hence sitting back (with his cold pizza, playing online games), waiting to receive (your attention/wooing).... all the way to, 'I'm not lifting another finger UNTIL *YOU* PROVE YOU WANT *ME*'.

You're *not* going to prove unless you see proof, are you. But you've been putting a big frightener of a blockade in his way, which obviously was too heavy for him to lift off the path to Two Smug & Gormlessly-Grinning Lovers Ville.

The power was always in his hands but you've added to the things that have disempowered him.

So! You need to decide whether you want to give one man your all (and have female friends instead) in order that you REAP All. This doesn't mean you can't have male friends per se. But it does mean THEY CAN'T BE SINGLE/AVAILABLE (or their own relationships in trouble/petering out). And neither can you see them ON THEIR OWN. And neither will it be forever. Just until he reaches full confidence and trust. I mean - you *did break it* that time, did you not ("Yes"). So you can't really blame him for that level of paranoiac expectation/anticipation, can you ("No"). And SINCE this whole 'holding back or scarpering into his safe little cave the minute he feels spooked' habit *was* at least 50% your fault/responsibility, that means you have to undo your mistake.

Friends KNOW they're not a life-long, 24/7 candidate, they're merely a SECONDARY relationship. So at the point when you establish a PRIMARY relationship, they are duty-bound, LIKE a good friend, to get in the queue behind him *accordingly* - same as they'd expect you to do were the situations reversed.

Are you willing to go on a Best Male Friends diet? And are you willing to GIVE him that (obviously key) reassurance?

BF *can* do this. That whole speech of his was *VERY* bravely honest and - what's more - TRUSTING. (And he's crystal-clearly exceptionally loyal - TICK!) And that *proves* he can. If given- NOT a leg-up, but a LIFELINE.

So could you?...would you?... in a box with a fox, on a train in the rain, ...like Green Eggs & Ham, Sam-I-Am? :-) Enough to promise so? And then, you and he make NEW friends? Other (happy) couples? E.g. start regularly attending some sort of couples-friendly club or bar together until you get talking to and getting to know other couples to the point of making social engagements with them?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 5 2016 at 16:28
Member since: 19 August 2014
Put simply, you're a TEAM. A team's friends are OTHER TEAMS. And if you're happily loved-up team, those other teams are likewise happily loved-up.

Get it?

Kicking yourself for how simple and logical and easily located that key is?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 5 2016 at 16:46
Member since: 19 August 2014
"the whole time when we talk or most of it its him metioning problems and just saying " and this and that and this" ..and im like we have to solve it one by one then and trying to look into it but he gets depressed and like "this is sooo much *crycrycry*".."

Then LET him cry (he obviously needs to get it out of his system, finally). But tell him, once he's finished, that now he has to join you in going through the To Do list or Emotional In-Tray sheets, even if it's just one item per day or few days (the results, and what the results do to you, will be what spur him into wanting to tackle another and another).

Probably, it's BECAUSE no-one's let him cry for long enough (or at all) that's left him always having to go back and 'do it again'.

"he is playing the whole time..he took some time to skype with me but a lot of the time he was clicking around and surfing while i was talking or while he was.."

He's probably a little attention-deficit the minute he gets on his computer - too easily distracted (it has been his main entertainment source for too long, remember?). All you have to do in that circumstance is say, 'Oh...well, listen... if you've got too much to do to be able to talk properly with me, shall we leave it until, say, tomorrow, and you let me know when you *are* free?' (and then wait for the 'No-no-no-no-no!' and him closing browsers).

As for being tardy/inattentive when out with friends/family - that's just normal. Picture it... you walking along streets with them or caught in a conversation. You can't just say, 'Everyone make like a silent statue, I need to send a text!', can you. You have to fit in with the crowd and what they're doing.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 5 2016 at 16:51
Member since: 19 August 2014
..and that unrealistic, non-fair-minded expectation of yours is what I mean when I say, he's had too long to start to infect *you* with his own insecurities. Plus, Nana, he *is* still a man, irritating at times to a woman with naturally better conscientiousness and etiquettes, you ain't gonna change *that* side. Minimise it, sure. But - change it? You'll have to wait until he turns 50 and his testosterone production lowers...at which point he'll start to become that little ol' gent you see walking slightly behind his wife along the seafront prom, asking if she thinks he should fart now or wait until later and the whole time going (genuinely), 'Yes, dear, whatever you think, you know best'. LOL
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 5 2016 at 17:17
Member since: 19 August 2014
Ahah - found it! (Your own issue)

"And him cheating on you, and feeling like you weren't good enough made you feel really bad"

The person whom he thought shouldn't ever, wouldn't ever, let him down, let him down.

The person whom you thought shouldn't ever, wouldn't ever, let you down, let you down.

Two identical peas in a pod, going, 'Heal me! / No, you heal ME! / No, you! / No, YOU'.

*Team* members SWAP nurturing. You heal him as he heals you. You feed him as he feeds you. Here (and send the link to bf the minute you see the correct cue):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mGVOekKMRs

But [1] it's a dance; [2] men are supposed to be the brave risk-takers. So that means HE MAKES THE FIRST MOVE.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 5 2016 at 17:31
Member since: 19 August 2014
That was a very lovely Night-Night conversation, by the way. :-) Put me in mind of one of my fave film scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMh9hPGNGKE (1:21 to 1:32)

:-D

No, but seriously - very sweet. :-)

Feeling a bit better now,...more positive and re-hopeful?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 8 2016 at 13:41
Member since: 19 August 2014
Nana, are you 'there'? Should I take it that no news means it's good news?
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 8 2016 at 15:05
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

im sorry i havent replied yet..i just wanted to take some time, because i kind of realized one or two things after u wrote me what u did and also after some therapy sessions.. id like to come back a bit later and write u..

little update until later:

pow-wow-ing is going on since the "sweet night night conversation"..im amazed that he started replaying the tapes like u said it would happened..

what im sceptical about is my feelings at the moment..after u said the thing with :

"Bf is quite correct. Even if on meeting him you thought 'Ew!' about some interested bloke, men know that a woman has a secret 'button' inside her that, if pushed enough times, consistently, in order of pressure (light, light, heavier, heavier, heavier), it's only a matter of time before that 'working o her' makes her her primitive dating programme activate to "RUN", meaning, that 'unattractive, boring, pain-in-the-a*se, not my type anyway' bloke suddenly starts looking, MMM, HOT!..... all the way to I LOVE HIM! (So bf has just confessed that he *did* know what to do but didn't feel like it - couldn't pull himself up by the boot-straps - because he was too busy nurturing negative, persecution-complex thoughts and trying to hold his heart out of your (seeming) fist's reach.

Basically, what happened to him way back when - and then between you both in your flat - put him/triggered him back into FEMALE THINKING, thinking of himself as the Done-To/Easy Victim rather than the Do-To/Victimiser - hence sitting back (with his cold pizza, playing online games), waiting to receive (your attention/wooing).... all the way to, 'I'm not lifting another finger UNTIL *YOU* PROVE YOU WANT *ME*'. "

like i said im going to be back soon!

on my way out!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 8 2016 at 17:55
Member since: 19 August 2014
That's okay, wasn't trying to hurry you up, just not used to you going suddenly so quiet for so long (who - YOU? :-D).

When you're ready...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 8 2016 at 20:23
Member since: 27 January 2016
Ok so, i kind of didnt wanna write either...same thing i said to my therapist..

Some Nights ago (POW-wow-Ing was on its highest) we had a talk.. He actually LET me explain to him why i did what i did/made certain decisions and the First Moments After i explained how unreal it was for me Meeting him and also how i couldnt Trust that i actually met someone like him i started feeling so good..like heavy weights got finally lifted.. I Felt like i talked to the Guy Whom i could Tell anything without him judging me..and it was Great(thats why i fell for him in the First Place)..then he started mentioning my ex over and over again and it got a bit unconfortable because we r ready to let it go finally( he said so himself) but that cant Happen over night and also Not when he is mentioning it over and over again..

However, it got a bit Heavy again and we said it Needs Time and we switched to another conversation(we had the idea to do a road Trip and some Camping in denmark Late may) After some Time he started asking me lots and lots questions about the Trip and "how/what/when" and i was so tired and exhausted that i got a bit iritated and he Felt it and said ok i guess u r Not up to this right now(in a friendly way/which i appreciated) i said i was tired and that i dont feel like it..

What do u think about doing the Trip? Is it a good timing? I would say yes..

I was super happy that all of a sudden like i mentioned the "replaying the Tapes" finally happened and then he saw that he doesnt need anything in denmark and that he is totally ready now and committed to get a job/ himself/ be More understanding/ work on the relationship and see me for who i am and how Alike we r..

BUT at One Point i had the mindset that he has to prove himself now. Honestly, i lived with a Guy Who i didnt know at all of a sudden for a very Long Time.. Begging him to "see" me and Not to be so sad all the Time. I feel like i disrespected myself in a lot of ways..we rushed it..and what happened? i just saw someone who was suffering and didnt wanna include me in his life (funny, because that was the idea of movin in toether)and no wooin (NOTHIN) was happenin for me to be "convinced" that he is the one..

He has to prove himself.. "He has to take me out on a Million Dates before i consider anything. He has to woo me Till he is Blue(german proverb). He has to treat me like i am the prettiest/smartest/ best thing that Ever happened to him.he has to convince me that he is good enough"

One of the reasons why i am saying this is because (oh suuurprise) After Day One or two (After the realizations started) he started complaining about me being so distant and that he is worried that i am Not feeling the Same Way because of the way i was writin when we were chattin( i did the thin that u said and that i needed to do-the "bein passive") and that his distance is going to get triggered by that and so on..what happened with me? I Felt this huuuuuuge pressure.. I had to be the One to make him calm *again* eventho i wasnt ready yet, i cant "just believe" him.. I CANT MISTER!! And me making my feelin Not as important and trying to Tell him that "dont Worry everything is good" was like betraying myself like i did a lot of Times.. There was so many Times were i wasnt true to myself, wanting to make sure HE isnt unhappy.. Like a vicious Cicle..( btw, i already know this behaviour from myself-i got it from my Mama..-i am discussing that with my therapist already tho)

so here i am, i need more prove and also to relax a bit more ( im tense the whole time)..

i told him yesterday after therapy that i feel pressured by him and that everythin is oin ood now(sorry "g" isnt workin aain..) and that it just has to continue like this and we shouldnt pressure ourselves so much..and i actually ot butterflies in my stomache thinkin about the results that r awaitin us..

but yeah riht now im not quite sure whats oin on with me..

i was thinkin a lot about the stuff u wrote..i had a habit of bein with men for whome i was the jackpot..i was actually in a relationship with the best friend of an ex with whome i fell in love with for the first and last time(till i met my bf) for 4 years(!!!!)

and with my bf it was so natural..i wasnt sure if i liked his looks in the start..but after the connected and saw how alike we were and how easy it was to talk to him i started lovin all of it..uncludin the thins i wasnt sure about..

aand then after we met for the first time it was so ood..kissin him after i exited the train in denmark for the firt time..it was so nice..i felt so at home in a way..AND THEN the physical part came and it was too much..i wasnt ready but i made myself do it so he thinks that i am as open as i said i was..and actually i am..i love sex and i want everythin we fantasized about but i wasnt ready to sleep with him at all..and we kind of never ot over that..because i feel this huuuuuuge pressure..HELP!

he is startin to sence that i am strugglin a bit..and i dont wantr to worry him ( there we have my problem) but i also have to be true to myself and express whats on my mind..and by now u should know him (sorta) IMAgINE ME TELLIN HIM! just imagine..i think he miht flip..*barf*

btw the plan " be passive is still on"? he had a free cookie today because i felt like he deserved it (or i felt sorry?)

btw#2 i already talked about the "primary relationship"-thin with him and he was happy that i am more interested nuturin that then a friendship..

btw# send him the video ( he liked it a lot :) )me too ..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 9 2016 at 19:34
Member since: 19 August 2014
"I Felt like i talked to the Guy Whom i could Tell anything without him judging me..and it was Great(thats why i fell for him in the First Place)"

Two steps forward.

"then he started mentioning my ex over and over again and it got a bit unconfortable because we r ready to let it go finally( he said so himself) but that cant Happen over night and also Not when he is mentioning it over and over again.."

One step back. Sub-total: one step forward.

"However, it got a bit Heavy again and we said it Needs Time and we switched to another conversation"

Woah. (Well done him! (and you, obviously).) Five steps. Sub-total: four steps forward.

"we had the idea to do a road Trip and some Camping in denmark Late may"

Reciprocal reassurance. Another step. S-t: five steps.

"After some Time he started asking me lots and lots questions about the Trip and "how/what/when" and i was so tired and exhausted that i got a bit iritated and he Felt it and said ok i guess u r Not up to this right now(in a friendly way/which i appreciated)"

Woah. I think I don't need to count, what with so much subtle as well as overt progress taking the giant lead.

**********

Whether the trip itself is a good thing, remains to be seen. We're not interested in promises and plans, we're interested in what's what NOW. Because that's what will ensure whether the trip (and any other such future plans) actually happens.

**********

"He has to prove himself.. "He has to take me out on a Million Dates before i consider anything. He has to woo me Till he is Blue(german proverb). He has to treat me like i am the prettiest/smartest/ best thing that Ever happened to him.he has to convince me that he is good enough""

And every time he does enough - repeatedly or sustainedly - to make you feel confident and positive about him again - you have to then respond positively and/or reciprocate. That's what HE has to see, in order to appreciate that he has 'money' in his pocket and the control to put it into the slot (oo-er, LOL) in order to get 'fed' as reinforces his desire to put in another....and another... and so on and so forth. It sounds like he's getting the concept. (Easy to forget or overlook when you're stressed and addled, eh.)

No, you can't just believe him, if you mean, whatever is just words. But there are actions in there, too (as I've pointed out 'up there'), that you CAN take to the bank. Plus progress is never a straight upwards line, anyway. It's more forwards, forwards, backwards, forwards, backwards, forwards, forwards, forwards. Upwards, overall, is the point. The rest will take you trusting him enough to effectively give him a second shot at living with you. But I doubt very much he'll ever push you that far again. Because this time he'll know what'll happen. Right? Dinghy and rollerskates time.

Making sure that HE is happy is not the problem. Him having moreover ceased simultaneously doing the same for YOU was the problem.

The mistake YOU made was pre-paying, meaning, you were the choccie machine feeding its own coins into itself (free or in-advance bars) as a way to (duh?) encourage him to get his wallet out. (Obviously the 'exchange' isn't that mercenary in practise, but it is entirely the correct gist.)

Saying that, A COMMISERATIONS choccie-bar is fine if he's giving you a **genuine** case for being felt sorry for. That's fine, as long as you don't make it too frequent (or he'll just switch to playing the violin every time he wants one without actually earning it).

If he keeps up this complaining about not getting enough reciprocation from you then he might well have a valid point, in that, you might not be giving him sizeable enough 'rewards' for good behaviour. Depends on the size of his good behaviour, really. And I'm not talking about how much it impacts you, either (because right now you're not optimally receptive or appreciative). Try to be objective when you judge his stepping up and attempts to keep you contented.

**********

Why do you feel tense? Is it the thought of letting him come 'home' and then, to your abject disappointment, seeing nothing but him falling too rapidly back into the same or similar bad habits, whereby you've got to AGAIN muster the strength of mind needed to tell him to leave/go on a break (now at his expense) a second time? Well, you have complete control over that. There he is, not enjoying the (not enjoyable) visit and wanting to come home now-now-now. Well, there's nothing like being 'exiled' somewhere you really don't want to be for making one determine not to end up - BY ones own hand - in that uncomfortable (or even torturous) situation ever again, is there.

What, probably, is 'going on with you' is [1] you've got a mental backlog to think through (because he was too much of a distraction from you tending to your own needs), [2] it's suddenly SAFER to dare open that whole Pandora's Box-lid *completely*. Suddenly feeling safer is a *good* thing (think about it). And [3] You're waiting for the ultimate Green Light for inviting him back/giving him a date of return yet - still somewhat dizzy from all that one-sided rowing - not quite trusting your 'eyesight'. Well, mine's just fine and I say he's starting to make meaningful progress. Emphasis on starting, obviously. But it's a good start and a very rapid start (- told ya he's a super-fast processor).

Think about what he COULD have been doing all this time: playing mind-games...such as,

[1] texting you, letting you reply but then just leaving your response hanging without one being forthcoming from his side, either at all or in timely fashion. Keeping you dangling, its called ("treat her mean to keep her keen");

[2] failing to keep to arrangements to text or ring;

[3] giving you little signs and hints all over the shop that he's surrounded by female 'takers' (e.g. I'm going to a pumping nightclub with the lads tonight);

....oh ALL sorts of silly-little-boy mind games designed to make you ORDER him home rather than have to sit worrying about what he's up to with whom if not.

What have you had on that score? I can't see anything since that 'note this woman chasing after me on the internet' incident - can you? He seems to have been completely above-board.

He's being constantly accessible; consistently responsive; significantly more honest and conciliatory than not; willing to place himself into positions of vulnerability and openness to criticism... etc.

No, he seems to genuinely want to sort this out for-good. Wouldn't you say?

***********

"but i wasnt ready to sleep with him at all..and we kind of never ot over that..because i feel this huuuuuuge pressure."

Huge pressure to - WHAT? Sleep with him? Get in deeper than ever with him, emotionally? Both?

Also, re telling him honestly how you still feel at this (premature) juncture and all and any other fears: there are ways of framing and phrasing things whereby the other person is either not affronted or, better yet, FLATTERED.

Example - me to Mr S when we were LD and he was phoning/texting/emailing almost *constantly* every day: Listen... You're Black Forest Gateau, utterly rich, exotic and delicious but INCREDIBLY FILLING, particularly since I'd been on a starvation diet for too long before meeting you, meaning, my 'tummy' has shrunk as well. You're going to have to hold yourself back a bit or else I'm either going to get indigestion or get too fat to move a muscle (and I've got things to do that can't keep getting put off). You've clearly got a much bigger appetite than me. I can't take this much sweet self-indulgence yet I *don't* want the cake to start tasting sickly. Smaller, more spaced-out slices, please?

Answer: Oh... Me...? Ah am Black Forest Gateau? Oh!................ *OH*, Ah get eet. Oh, okay. No problem, bebe.......... Rilly, zo? Black Forest Gateau?......... Black Forest Gateau..Ah like zat... [etcetera ego-purring].

Point is, the thrice-daily phonecalls became one (evening) and NO RESENTMENT, FEELING INSECURE (and acting-out) OR SULKING.

It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it.

Try it. Here. 'Now'. In front of me so I can see what you need to say and check how it comes across.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 11 2016 at 18:54
Member since: 27 January 2016
okay, let me start by saying that right now it got a bit weird..what i mean with that is:

yesterday, i was at my moms and he was cooking or doing whatever so we didnt rly chat for some hours..it was ok for me but in the back of my mind (which i honestly think is one of my problems(!)) was "jeeez, what if he wrote me, and right now i dont have inet to reply? he is going to be worried and he is gonna think something is up again..how annoying" but what actually happened is that i came home, saw that he wrote me and i replied that i havent seen that he wrote me and it was ok for him..some moments (an hour?) later he said something was weird today and i said "ooh i know, u were mad that i didnt write back for some time, were u?" and he said 2 things:

1. right away he said he thought i was a bit insecure(i cant imagine where he got that from)

2. later he said that he thought about it again and that maybe it was 1. "the 1000 dates i joked about" ( i mentioned it and we were talking about it ever since like how and what and so on..but in a nice way, not pushy or anything-always with a little humor) and that 2. it was us getting used to it being normal that we r doing other stuff too and that it was ok when we dont hear from eachother in some hours..

ok, well i personally think i f*ked it up again..what i mean with that is that some days ago he was talking to his dad and that guy was asking him when he is gonna leave already and he had to say a date so he said the 20th then we talked about it and he kind of surprised me and i was thinking well ok then , i think we made so much progress thats gonna be ok, and somehow i do wanna start leaving what we talked about and what he promised me so far..

well that+the stuff i mentioned with the "it being weird for a moment" (i think atleast) made him kind of distant i think again..yesterday after we talked and played some games together he got kind of fake when saying good night and so i "mirrored him" and said it in the same voice back and he got offened..however we left it like that and the next time we talked was today at 12 when i was at work, but because i had phone duty i didnt have time to talk almost at all..he did say " miss u, come home, it sucks when u have phone duty" but when it was a bit strange like he got a bit distant or lets say "too safe"(?) again..

all of that tho made me super super emotional now..he doenst have a clue but i am asking myself how the F could that happen again...i am dealing with questions like "what r my feelings towards him? what were they back then? how r we gonna manage here? can i live with him in the same flat again? HOW AM I GONNA LOSE THE TENSION AND PRESSURE IM FEELING?" and i dont rly have time to think about him getting distant again..

however i just skyped with him and after some time i mentioned the 20th and me not being totally sure about it because he kind of decided that date out of the blue (he is saying that i asked him-but i cant remember tbh)when he got pressured by his dad..i took it a bit with humor and said well i just wanted to talk about it again..he said he was hurt and that he knew i was gonna mention it and i asked what was up but he said he coulndt rly talk (there were his little brother and sister in the same room) so i said "ok, call me when they r gona so we can discuss it" and he hung up..i guess he is hurt now..i am too because all of a sudden that distance from his side was showing a bit and i just cant have him talking to me, and i can tell when something he says is ment genuine and when not, like that..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 11 2016 at 20:10
Member since: 27 January 2016
part two is gonna come soon..
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 12 2016 at 17:23
Member since: 27 January 2016
so part two:

after the situation above he wrote me one and a half hours later saying that his brother, sister and their friend were gone for some time (wanting to make sure that i know he took his time to think about it, but in a "i have to think about it and then im gonna let u know what/when/how"-way) and that i should call him when i see the message..after some time i called him on skype and he told me some stuff:

1. he said that he had mixed feelings regarding my behavior..he feels pressured because 1.) he mentioned me getting mad when he was doing his own thing WHILE HE WAS HERE AND DEPRESSED AS F*** and therefor made me totally crazy and clingy and feel not appreciated and unwanted ( so sorry mister, that point is not valid!) 2.) some days ago we were skyping after i come home from a rly Sh+tty day(phone duty, my head was smoking and i was a wreck..) and he had his little siter and brother and their friend next to him, was playing again while we were talking and i just didnt feel like talking while all of that was happening. HE had the impression that "once again" i didnt want to "let him do his own thing".. that two points he had yesterday that made him have mixed feelings..so basically he is saying that he cant figure me out because of that..i explained to him what happened in the past and said that i cant believe that he is using what ever happened "then" because he already was "comprehensive" and he already admitted that he was in a shitty place and he on purpose shot down..

so one of his thoughts is "is she really that clingy?"

after i explained it and said that 1. i was super tired and couldnt listen to the noise so its something completely normal for me to say "lets talk later when u r done playing and the kids r gone" and 2. that the other point he had wasnt valid, he more or less got it and said " well u have to tell me, we have misunderstandings going on a lot of the times and i thought that u were getting mad because i was doing my own thing"

this conversation went on for some time i tried to explain to him that id like us to be individuals, find ourselves again and also be able to do our own things without the other person freaking out..the balance is something we rly RLY have to work on..

i have to admit both of us have to work on that still us being ok that we are individuals and that we are not going to lose eachother when we take time to do our own stuff..

this is how i lose myself from time to time because i feel so responsible..

*****************************************************

"And every time he does enough - repeatedly or sustainedly - to make you feel confident and positive about him again - you have to then respond positively and/or reciprocate."

-got it..thank u for saying that-i know its "duuuh" but it helps..i do have to do it in a way he "gets" it..like u said: " And I'm not talking about how much it impacts you, either (because right now you're not optimally receptive or appreciative). Try to be objective when you judge his stepping up and attempts to keep you contented. "

-i am trying from now on to see it more objectively..i guess that i thought i showed it enough but he kept saying that i was distant in a way..well im not really sure how to do it tbh he was (is?) constantly sending me lots and lots of hearts and "i love u"-s and i always replied and said it back but not in the same way lets say he sent me 4 hearts and i sent 2 back, if u know what i mean..so thats how he felt "my distance"..

seriously, at some point i just got very worried about my feelings towards him..i didnt feel the "4 hearts"..i needed some calmness, understanding, friendship and most of all his positiv energy to come back (which started happening) HIM to come back and the damn equality that started showing again..(with which i could feel free to tell him stuff)

******************************************************

"Why do you feel tense? Is it the thought of letting him come 'home' and then, to your abject disappointment, seeing nothing but him falling too rapidly back into the same or similar bad habits, whereby you've got to AGAIN muster the strength of mind needed to tell him to leave/go on a break (now at his expense) a second time? Well, you have complete control over that. There he is, not enjoying the (not enjoyable) visit and wanting to come home now-now-now. Well, there's nothing like being 'exiled' somewhere you really don't want to be for making one determine not to end up - BY ones own hand - in that uncomfortable (or even torturous) situation ever again, is there. "

-so this is gonna be a longer one i think:

.)i am naturally a tense person..sounds really bad but it comes from my insecurities..i have (like i already mentioned) this characteristic or lets say bad characteristic to put everyone before myself and then worry about their well being eventhough i am not content myself(but who am i telling, right?haha u know me a bit by now)then there is the fact that because of that i havent taken good care of myself and always postpone doc appointments and so on so i have for example some troubles with my teeth (have a fear of dentist-working on that altready)-i mean i do have really nice teeth thank god but-i am very insecure about that and so when i say i am tense because of that, its because when i laugh a lot of the times i hide my teeth with my hands in front of my mouth so i kinda feel very limited..not being able to express my emotions in a proper way (very controlled with my body)..there is also the fact that i feel insecure about putting on some weight so i kinda got a little double chin and that ofc means that when i walk or stand or sit next to someone i always try to keep my chin up so u dont see it that badly... so this wasnt easy writing down..but this is one of the ways how i am tense..i am literally controlling my body a lot and then ofcourse comes all the stuff u mentioned..

.)im not even "there", meaning i dont feel the "4 hearts" yet and now he has to come back? thats concerning me..

he is going to want sex regularly ( i wish i would be there emotionally) but im not..like i said i need it very slow it has to build up very slow, and now he has to come back already?

.)then having to sharing everything with him again..after we rushed it in the start? and now do it all over again?..this is a lot for me..i mean thats somthing i always dreamt of having to share my life with my princ but now that so much happened..

""but i wasnt ready to sleep with him at all..and we kind of never ot over that..because i feel this huuuuuuge pressure."

Huge pressure to - WHAT? Sleep with him? Get in deeper than ever with him, emotionally? Both? "

-both!!

*****************************************************

"What, probably, is 'going on with you' is [1] you've got a mental backlog to think through (because he was too much of a distraction from you tending to your own needs), [2] it's suddenly SAFER to dare open that whole Pandora's Box-lid *completely*. Suddenly feeling safer is a *good* thing (think about it). And [3] You're waiting for the ultimate Green Light for inviting him back/giving him a date of return yet - still somewhat dizzy from all that one-sided rowing - not quite trusting your 'eyesight'. Well, mine's just fine and I say he's starting to make meaningful progress. Emphasis on starting, obviously. But it's a good start and a very rapid start (- told ya he's a super-fast processor). "

-love this one..yeah thats whats happenening i guess..

*****************************************************

"He's being constantly accessible; consistently responsive; significantly more honest and conciliatory than not; willing to place himself into positions of vulnerability and openness to criticism... etc. "

-not sure about that since two days ago...-already mentioned the situation about his mixed feelings..aaand he wasnt like that today or yesterday atleast..im not writing him either without him being the one who initiates..

for example, just now, same old same old :

he wrote me (nothing really interesting or genuine for that matter) after an hour and said "not that u wrote haha but im gonna go and eat now"..with some weird smilies wanting to make me feel like he is all good that i wasnt that responsive in chat ( because he wasnt under 4 eyes in skype)...*i can smell a bit of mind games again*

*****************************************************

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 12 2016 at 18:44
Member since: 27 January 2016
since i was already talking about how much i control my body..i also have to mention something i kinda realized/noticed:

when i first came to denmark my bf didnt really know how to behave towards me and i didnt know either..he had the info from our chats back then, that i liked "strong men", men who took care of u in situations where u needed them(the stepping up i guess). he always said and made the impression that he was that sort of men who could "take it", u know what i mean..not week, understanding, loyal and very caring.

what i noticed back then was that he (like mentioned) didnt rly know how to act, so he tried "this and that". once i remember us going to the groceries and him trying to act all tough meaning "grabing me in a very menly way" other times he was very vulnerable..so he tried it all somehow..he did say at some point that i am somehow controlling and that he doesnt really know what to do because i basically didnt let him do his "thing"..but we kinda managed and i guess with him pulling back a bit?not sure about that right now..

then some days ago we were joking about the "1000 dates" and he was telling me what he had in mind and it was fun..

and then yesterday he said that that(like i also mentioned) pressured him too in a way..

i told him it wasnt ment like that in a way it was really just joking and playing along with what i/he was saying and it was that too but i also said that i knew how we started out, meaning too fast. and that ment that i just wanted a fresh start and to take it slower not to mess it up again..

he looked at me and said " u know i was already gonna do all sorts of stuff, i had in mind that i wanted to make u feel special because u deserve it" and then he laughed and said "jeez, u really dont have that much confidence in me, do u?"..

well..i dont..that the next problem..i cant really find the balance in being passive and letting him do the moves and then being like "ok, i have to make sure this(he) doesnt f*k up again..

ps.sorry about the swearing..used to it since we do it a lot..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 12 2016 at 19:25
Member since: 19 August 2014
1. Worrying about whether you're doing the wrong thing/not being attentive enough to keep him feeling secure and whether you're going to pay for it later in the form of snarky or teasing comments and accusations, is called, Walking on eggshells. A BIT of walking on eggshells, i.e. just treading carefully/you or he being kept a little on their toes, is good, but actually tiptoe-ing constantly whilst braced and anxious is not.

2. His telling you you're insecure when he's the insecure one, originally (albeit has infected you somewhat) is called, Projecting (of which blame-shifting is a form).

Your answer to both of those scenarios in the first instance should ideally be along these (teasing, humouring) lines: AWWWW, stop being so silly and take a Chill Pill, can't you?! One of my personal faves (over the phone) used to be, 'Hhh!...shh!' / 'What?!' / 'What's that behind you?...a big, scary monster, AAARGH, QUICK, RUN!...oh, no, wait, it's just your cat' / 'Oh, ha-ha.....I don't have a cat, anyway' / 'Well, I reckon you could IMAGINE one into existence, don't you think?' / 'Oh, ha-ha [and so on]'. Nine point nine times out of 10, it would end up in a good-humoured, joint (very silly) fantasising session. It's called, Taking the wind out of their sails (and bringing them back down to earth).

I repeat, you can't *both* be screeching, het-up chimps - won't work. So take the p*ss to point out how silly he's being. Have fun with it! :-)

But it's good that he went away and gave it more thought, and then came back to explain himself (apologise...sort-of).

3. "ok, well i personally think i f*ked it up again..what i mean with that is that some days ago he was talking to his dad and that guy was asking him when he is gonna leave already and he had to say a date so he said the 20th then we talked about it and he kind of surprised me and i was thinking well ok then , i think we made so much progress thats gonna be ok, and somehow i do wanna start leaving what we talked about and what he promised me so far.."

Oh DID his dad, oh did he, indeed, mm-hmm?, how miraculously serendipitous, I feel my 'I really believe him face' coming on....

If his dad DID say that then I imagine it was just a hot-air missile thrown/thrown back during a tiff. But, if you chose to believe him or believe his dad was actually serious then that's a positive thing (not a f**k-up) because it's your choice when he's allowed to come back - great excuse that you knowingly or unwittingly buy into or not. ;-)

What you keep calling 'distant' is no such thing, Nana. It's just him having gained enough reassurance to feel secure enough to relax (for bleedin' once!) and get engrossed with the things and goings-on around him rather than sitting around, whittling in his head about you and you & he. Don't you WANT him to completely relax and cease jumping at shadows? Try to see it as a *good* thing rather than a personal insult... and an opportunity - for YOU to get on with things and enjoying having all that space (and the TV remote control, LOL). I do not, however, see him being capable of *completely* relaxing. Not until he's home again.

Listen, there is 'I am into her' and then there's your boyfriend! YOU... have absolutely nothing to worry about on that 'loves me/loves me not' score. He is so into you he practically *is* you!

Here's another ol' favourite of mine:

Me: Shut-up, I love you.

Him: Yes, but you [blah-blah]

Me: Shut-up, I love you.

Him: I know but when you [etc]

Me: Shut-up, I love you.

Him: *sigh*.....*grin*....... *snog*....Although, can I just say ONE THIN-

Me: Shut-up, I - ALTOGETHER NOW?

Him: Love me.

Me: Right. So shuddup. And work it out under *that* light, not your 'out-to-get-me' light....quietly, to yourself...and if after that you still can't work it out, THEN I'll help clear it up for you - deal?

Again, it would 'deteriorate' into silliness and giggling. Which is what you want when they're getting just so damned HEAVY and like they've had a sense-of-humour bypass.

Trust me, Nana - you WANT them secure and relaxed. So if they are, and they've earned it (by self-comforting) - leave da wickle bubbie to have his resultant nap, don't PROD him to see if he's still breathing. You do that and - "WHAAAAAAAH!....".

As you might now have guessed, this is EXCELLENT training for when you sprog for the first time. (Every cloud... ;-))

4. ""what r my feelings towards him? what were they back then? how r we gonna manage here? can i live with him in the same flat again? HOW AM I GONNA LOSE THE TENSION AND PRESSURE IM FEELING?""

- You'll find out when he comes back.

- They were obviously the right feelings or else you'd not have let him move in.

- What do you mean, how are you going to manage here?

- You'll find out if you can live (more happily) with him in the same flat, when he comes back.

- How you're going to lose the tension and pressure you're feeling is by conceding to the above truths, making plans OR TELLING HIM YOU'VE MADE PLANS (with non-single, i.e. non bar-cruising, female friends) so that he knows you're (cough!) uncontactable on this day, this day, this day and THIS and you can buy yourself time, finally, (FINALLY,) to relax and cease worrying about what he's thinking and what you should be thinking. You've only got 8 days of pleasing yourself left.

ONLY 8 DAYS (tick-tock, tick-tock...).

And another thing you should consider, is this: Men are v....ery territorial. But in order to protect their territory takes their being able to put their protective arm around it ("mine!...mine!...mine-mine-mine-mine-mine!"). If they can't reach to do that, if their territory is vulnerable to being stolen (which you are, just by virtue of being a woman) but is out of their control zone, it agitates them. So a considerable portion of his seeming angst and insecurity right now will - automatically - dissolve the minute he sees you in that airport arrivals lounge...and then again once he steps over the flat threshold (particularly if you've done something to say Welcome Home, like put on display a big vase of fresh flowers and a bottle of his fave booze/whatever (you know him best)). But he will KNOW he's on probation, I imagine (unless he's really dense). It's okay to make a homecoming fuss, by the way, because it's the 'I Still Love You hug' after having 'sat him on the naughty step'.

5. Good for you (just read it now) for having stood up for your need to have longer and not be dictated to on that score! Progress for you!

And - "(he is saying that i asked him-but i cant remember tbh)" - you can't remember because it WASN'T you. Doing what he did is a typical, well-worn, 'you HAVE to let me come home now because' tactic. Leverage, it's called. And only he has the motivation to cap the visit (think about it).

Yes, having the 20th cancelled will have made him insecure all over again, but if you're explaining yourself then it's up to him to just have a little more faith in your relationship as well as trust (in terms of knowing how you tick and using that as his backdrop against which to work out any conclusions). Self-comforting (after a leg-up from you... like removing a blanket because baby's clearly too hot, LOL).

"this conversation went on for some time i tried to explain to him that id like us to be individuals, find ourselves again and also be able to do our own things without the other person freaking out..the balance is something we rly RLY have to work on.."

If the heat of the kitchen is so intense and stifling that either of you wants to get out from time to time, that's fine and perfectly correct. Punctuations of Me Time are more important than people realise...as long as it's not used as some excuse to detach for secret, self-protective purposes (there *is* no SELF-protectiveness where teammates are concerned, not in that way; you each protect both of you, the team). For cooling down a tad, here and there, however, SO THAT YOU CAN GO BACK IN, REFRESHED, Me Time is invaluable. And - note - he'll highly likely need more of it himself once he gets a job.

But as long as he's ASKING what's what or what's up (rather than shooting first, asking questions later or storing the resentment as before would leak out later and cause trouble) and in the same moment you're delivering (clarifying) - that's good, that's what AVOIDS misunderstandings. That's a straight and shiny, bona-fide coin (whereby your real-time explanation/pacification is the choccie bar). Good. Progress. :-)

Once he gets a p/t job and a proper routine, you won't feel half as responsible any more. Plus the p/t job is what will increase his confidence about getting a full-time one.

6. You:

"or lets say bad characteristic to put everyone before myself and then worry about their well being eventhough i am not content myself("

Again, that shouldn't be a problem if the other people are doing likewise with you. Remember the 'spoons' video? During the initial wooing period, however, the man makes the first moves. Once you're steadies, then you can start initiating more and more.

"i mean i do have really nice teeth thank god but-i am very insecure about that and so when i say i am tense because of that, its because when i laugh a lot of the times i hide my teeth with my hands in front of my mouth so i kinda feel very limited..not being able to express my emotions in a proper way (very controlled with my body)..there is also the fact that i feel insecure about putting on some weight so i kinda got a little double chin and that ofc means that when i walk or stand or sit next to someone i always try to keep my chin up so u dont see it that badly... so this wasnt easy writing down..but this is one of the ways how i am tense..i am literally controlling my body a lot "

Wouldn't it just be easier to be brave and keep your teeth in good shape and eat less/move around more, considering the brave periods are intermittently fleeting and temporary WHEREAS the whittling is long-term ongoing?

"he is going to want sex regularly ( i wish i would be there emotionally) but im not..like i said i need it very slow it has to build up very slow, and now he has to come back already?

.)then having to sharing everything with him again..after we rushed it in the start? and now do it all over again?..this is a lot for me..i mean thats somthing i always dreamt of having to share my life with my princ but now that so much happened..

""but i wasnt ready to sleep with him at all..and we kind of never ot over that..because i feel this huuuuuuge pressure."

Huge pressure to - WHAT? Sleep with him? Get in deeper than ever with him, emotionally? Both? "

-both!!"

Ditto? I mean, Nana, if you really don't want to have sex with your own boyfriend then really you have no right (unless he's likewise or okay with it) to be in an adult romantic-sexual relationship in the first place. But that time when you first met up was then, this is now. I do wish you'd stop trying to pre-empt and second-guess everything and just go with the flow more. Force yourself, feel rewarded and then, from that, do it again....until you get used to it and enjoy it. Or set him free to find someone who *can* provide all the elements. You're going to have to decide. And if you're loath to have sex because for you it would bond you - to the extent where you wouldn't feel as safe (although I'd like to know how you think you KNOW that's what would result, as opposed to the opposite - feeling SAFER) - then you need face-to-face counselling to get it sorted.

7. ""He's being constantly accessible; consistently responsive; significantly more honest and conciliatory than not; willing to place himself into positions of vulnerability and openness to criticism... etc. "

-not sure about that since two days ago...-already mentioned the situation about his mixed feelings..aaand he wasnt like that today or yesterday atleast"

OVERALL!

I did tell you to expect, for example, one step forward, one back, two forward, three back, four forward, and so on, did I not? Are you reading my messages properly? Can you go back and re-read 'my' side of this thread from the day he left, please?

**************

So is the 20th definitely off the menu now? Are you going to give him a light at the end of his tunnel in the form of a set forward date of return? I mean, you want him to relax more and come back refreshed and ready to do things differently/better, right? Well, nobody that's serving a 'prison sentance' can relax if they don't even know the length of the term they're serving; that's mental cruelty if taken too far. Plus that failure to put out of misery can cause resentment (and you know what that can do, later on).

I can tell he's had enough of Not Knowing, now. Time to give him a date.

There's nothing to *stop* you naming a date that allows you enough time in the meantime to really get enough of pleasing and re-discovering yourself, is there. Plus, with a firm date, he's less likely to keep trying to take your temperature every 5 minutes (and infecting or exacerbating you when he does). So - chop-chop, Mrs Ach, Stop Bothering Me/Why Suddenly Aren't You Bothering Me, Eek!? That's your solution.

But do you know what I've noticed throughout this, above all else? You and boyfriend lack a sense of perspective, philosophical (que sera, sera) outlook, and a sense of humour. A joint one, I mean. Hopefully, that too should have changed once he comes back. Because by then, by comparison to this event, nothing else will be that scary or that serious and worth getting into a lather over. The 'worst' will already have happened (and *not* actually killed either of you)... that's part of the magic of a separation.

But you can't know that - BECAUSE HE HASN'T COME BACK YET, meaning you're whittling about stuff that hasn't even happened and probably won't - what a waste of precious energy! Just have faith and wait and see. I'll EAT MY HAT (or someone else's, since I don't wear one) if your relationship, the atmosphere at home, the respect of address, etc., etc., and his being raring to go (job-wise, etc.) isn't surprisingly different compared to before.

But one thing I'm going to recommend you start introducing, if you can, is you two frequenting comedy stand-up gigs (a fixed and regular, fortnightly or monthly date) and watching comedy series on the TV together. 'The couple that laughs together, stays together', as the very true saying goes.

Have I covered everything?

Oh, and when you reply, please just address only what I've addressed. No new data/happenings until we're sure the last lot has been put to bed, otherwise, the thread gets too messy.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 13 2016 at 17:08
Member since: 27 January 2016
thank u for the quickest answer ever :)

so i dont even know where to start, i guess thats the reason why u didnt want me to add more information to the thread yet, sorry about that and the reason i mentioned the stuff with my insecurity was because i wanted to make sure u know what its about..i dont need advice or anything on that..i am aware of what has to happen and its going to, but its a process..still thank u for your input on that.

*********************************************************

"1. Worrying about whether you're doing the wrong thing/not being attentive enough to keep him feeling secure and whether you're going to pay for it later in the form of snarky or teasing comments and accusations, is called, Walking on eggshells. A BIT of walking on eggshells, i.e. just treading carefully/you or he being kept a little on their toes, is good, but actually tiptoe-ing constantly whilst braced and anxious is not. "

-yeah u r right, ofc u r and its obvious, i just wanted to keep u updated of whats going on right now, and how we got to that point(and like u mentioned i paniced just a little bit)..i guess u saying that "But do you know what I've noticed throughout this, above all else? You and boyfriend lack a sense of perspective, philosophical (que sera, sera) outlook, and a sense of humour. A joint one, I mean. Hopefully, that too should have changed once he comes back. Because by then, by comparison to this event, nothing else will be that scary or that serious and worth getting into a lather over. The 'worst' will already have happened (and *not* actually killed either of you)... that's part of the magic of a separation. " is why a lot is happening..i thought u were going to tell me a way how to adopt (a sense of perspective, philosophical (que sera, sera) outlook-because obviously we r very young and scared) what was missing, like with the humor. i always felt like we did have a common sense of humor while we were LD but when it got real and the problems started adding up and the teamfeeling wasnt there yet we lost it more and more..

when we have good days, the humor is there when its "strange" like i mentioned in the previous message, then its gone..

********************************************************

"2. His telling you you're insecure when he's the insecure one, originally (albeit has infected you somewhat) is called, Projecting (of which blame-shifting is a form)."

"and so on, didnt wanna copy all of it"

-i love(need) explaining myself and i guess thats why it gets blown up in a way..i can see that..im a person who HAS to feel understood, and what better way then talking it out in the smallest details-thats what i think, atleast in situations like that. sooooo, i guess toning it down is what has to happen-got it! we had a convo yesterday were i explained (in smallest details again *ofc*) that i guess his mixed feelings come from him thinking that im lying ( sometimes he has the thought that when someone is explaining themselves a lot they r most likly lying) sooo, however gonna tone it down, especially when(IF)he isnt talking and explaining himselve that much (IF)

*******************************************************

"What you keep calling 'distant' is no such thing, Nana. It's just him having gained enough reassurance to feel secure enough to relax (for bleedin' once!) and get engrossed with the things and goings-on around him rather than sitting around, whittling in his head about you and you & he. Don't you WANT him to completely relax and cease jumping at shadows? Try to see it as a *good* thing rather than a personal insult... and an opportunity - for YOU to get on with things and enjoying having all that space (and the TV remote control, LOL). I do not, however, see him being capable of *completely* relaxing. Not until he's home again. "

-him getting relaxed-i guess i dont have a problem with that, i want us both relaxed-but thats another topic i already mentioned)

-what i find concerning is the fact that i get the impression that "the advice isnt working"-dont get me wrong, i appreciate it more then u might know, its a critique on me..the feeling he gives me in that kind of situations is the old one i already know and scares me..so i guess i overreact and start telling u "omg, this and that and this"..

"Trust me, Nana - you WANT them secure and relaxed. So if they are, and they've earned it (by self-comforting) - leave da wickle bubbie to have his resultant nap, don't PROD him to see if he's still breathing. You do that and - "WHAAAAAAAH!...."."-exactly..arrgh have to be more chilled...

*******************************************************

"- What do you mean, how are you going to manage here? "

-like, its such a shame that we moved together so fast..before teamfeeling etc.. so that kind of made it hard and not that enjoyable..so making it enjoyable would be nice..i guess i need some positivity, "que sera, sera" and some nice moments (dates like i mentioned) to lighten it up a bit..

*******************************************************

"ONLY 8 DAYS (tick-tock, tick-tock...)." -the 20th it is...

*******************************************************

2nd part coming up, its time to go home now :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 13 2016 at 19:05
Member since: 19 August 2014
1. There's genuine good humour and then (him, lately) there's being snarky under cover of good humour. Diff/all the diff. You two need to laugh and joke around more because it really relaxes your minds and bodies like you wouldn't believe (plus staves off illnesses). What you REALLY need, though, is to have sex at *this* juncture, not least so's you can stop judging it by 'yesterday's' standards.

2. "-what i find concerning is the fact that i get the impression that "the advice isnt working"-dont get me wrong, i appreciate it more then u might know, its a critique on me..the feeling he gives me in that kind of situations is the old one i already know and scares me..so i guess i overreact and start telling u "omg, this and that and this".."

You're by no means unique. In 'emotional' confrontation situations, women rush forwards to tame the potential foe into friend (via parlay-ing, including minute details) whereas men dart into their caves to, de-"flood", study it and formulate a strategy. Women - advance; male - retreat. If talking, the minute after something goes down, is too stressful for him but NOT talking immediately, too stressful for you, you both have to the team thing of compromising, and either agree a 20-30 minute Time Out (separate rooms) before trying again or converse 'from a distance' via email or mobile phone. Notice he doesn't run away or try to push you away when you're texting? Suddenly, *he's* the 'we've got to discuss it!' one. Including the minute details. That probably has a lot to do with why a part of you is wishing he could stay put for longer.

3. (- you forgot your 3) You're not overreacting, you're pre-empting, trying to see into a crystal-ball when you don't have one in order to gain forward guarantees when there aren't any. He's not going to suddenly undergo a complete personality transformation; this is about choices in *behaviour* towards himself and towards you. All there are, underneath the perfectly natural, extra portion of stress and fear he's experiencing at the mo, are encouraging signs (which I can see from him in between the wordage even if you can't).

4. (- and your 4) Correct.

5. So you're saying you're going to reinstate the 20th as the return date? GOOD. That'll have made it one whole month - excellent, just the right amount of time to make the magic kick in!

What did he say/how did he react when you told him?

6. Oh! Okay, LOL. "Laters!"

But before you do anything else, I want to know if you've already told him the 20th stands.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 14 2016 at 17:47
Member since: 27 January 2016
Sorry for the Delay:

"Ditto? I mean, Nana, if you really don't want to have sex with your own boyfriend then really you have no right (unless he's likewise or okay with it) to be in an adult romantic-sexual relationship in the first place. But that time when you first met up was then, this is now. I do wish you'd stop trying to pre-empt and second-guess everything and just go with the flow more. Force yourself, feel rewarded and then, from that, do it again....until you get used to it and enjoy it. Or set him free to find someone who *can* provide all the elements. You're going to have to decide. And if you're loath to have sex because for you it would bond you - to the extent where you wouldn't feel as safe (although I'd like to know how you think you KNOW that's what would result, as opposed to the opposite - feeling SAFER) - then you need face-to-face counselling to get it sorted."

-ok, let me Start by saying that OFC i wanna have sex with him..i can tell u what happened: i havent Felt Secure enough and didnt have enough Trust, as u can recall(wooing was missing too)..and isnt that smth that has to be there for it? I do miss him More and More now and also sexually ofc.. I had(have-in Progress) Trust issues with him and that plays a huge role in Sex, doesnt it? Felt a bit offended when i read that, No, im Not Letting him go so he can enjoy that with someone else, Makes me sick thinking about that..i believe that i am capable of providing that.. But it has to be a safe Environment, doesnt it? And the stuff we r working on is going to Provide that, wont it?

****************************************************

I did say to him that im having Second thoughts about the 20th but we Never discussed other Dates and yesterday i bought his ticket. Im actually omw Way to the Post Office to send it..we r a bit Late now..

*****************************************************

I Understood the step System..i just thought "wait, he is coming soon, is it ok that we r having some steps back and Hardy any forward atm,?" Because he is coming back next week..

Especially because he is doing(he Even told me himself " i have to take a step back with wrting u *haha*") talking a lot of Time when answering (im passive) and from time to Time having an Attitude;( and i know that he is Playing a Game in the Sense of mind Game) "im super great right now and i dont have a problem with u Not answering me, noooo im Not Freaking out(he is) an im also Not Gonna change my behaviour, because why should i be the First One to do, i wanna be wooed" .. Give me a break...

*****************************************************

Now using the number from your Last Message:

1.

-quick questions, whats diff? Google didnt wanna say.

-yeah..is like some Humor back..its so Freaking Heavy sometimes especially with the "step Situation"...

-Sex is coming up haha

2.thx for the advice

3.yeah.. Well a lot of it we r going to see when he is back..

4.how do u get the "que sera sera" attitude? Haha

5.already explained..it was like i never mentioned another date or lets say that i wanna postpone it..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 14 2016 at 18:45
Member since: 19 August 2014
I thought you were saying you didn't want sex with him full-stop. Yes, you would ideally like to feel better first but that doesn't mean you can't approach it from the other end (fake - or your case, force - it to make it versus make it to make it). Plus, in many instances, it's faster.

Did you know that sex is medicine for some bipolars? Not suggesting you're bipolar or anything (nope), but the point is how it can give your brain chemistry a much-needed boost of positivity.

You're the type who has problems with the transition point...the actual crossing, itself, of the bridge from situation A to new situation B, not the 'destination' per se. Your feet-dragging over calling for the break (and other things), and yet how you initially dealt just fine [understatement!] with it once it happened, showed me that. It's like the difference between dithering on the high-dive board, trying to come to terms with the concept before you hit the reality, or just taking a big breath, counting to three and going for it (or being pushed in from behind by an impatient but helpful friend) and then coping with the concept of it in retrospect. You either require inordinate time in which to think or zero time. But yes, you 'faking it to make it' might become a moot point the minute he returns (I suspect so).

Like I said - ignore the posturing. There comes a point, depending on the individual, where a break sustained for "too long" can become another, added problem for the partner, heaped on top, with that show of defensiveness arising. So well done for having told him the 20th is back on. And in fact, the FACT he tried to engineer his return, yet HADN'T repeatedly done so before that, spoke positive volumes. Before that point, he was just concerned with wanting to know how YOU felt. This was him having turned his attention to how he felt and what he wanted. Hence the result. And yet he wasn't too sure whether or not his brilliant excuse would be met with a warm reception, was he. Hence the cooking up of the cover story or making a real meal of a bona fide situation. HE'S WARY, in other words. And one of the things we wanted to achieve was new-found respect and ceasing to take you and everything else for-granted.

Mission accomplished! :-)

...Although, you have actually TOLD him, not just ordered the ticket to let the postal service inform him, I take it (just checking)?

PS: 'We're' a bit late? Who's 'we'?

You've suddenly calmed down a lot, by the way. So there you go: a significant portion of what you THOUGHT was anxiety and dread about his coming home was really the opposite - GRIEVING for him. Common emotional misunderstanding.

*******

1. LOL - 'diff' is difference. 'There's the difference that makes ALL the difference'...one of my stock sayings. Shame on Google! ;-D

2. Yes, you will.

3. You're welcome.

4. How you get the que sera, sera attitude.. Well, there are lots of ways. Reading philosophy would help. Have you ever read Sophie's World of Plato's Republic or absolutely anything by Socrates? Thoroughly recommend them both. The 'university of life' method, however, is called, being put thoroughly through the mill (life's sh*t 'n nonsense...mainly people, LOL).

5. Noted.

6. Supper time - "laters!"

PS: You've been a 'dream boardie' by the way. :-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 15 2016 at 11:29
Member since: 27 January 2016
morning :) Started writing this message at 6:30 (was a bit early at work-had phone duty..)

im going to see it in a more objective way i think(the sex) and just "do it" hahaha :) or lets say i NEED to start doing some sports maybe(?) just to feel better not only about myself but also physically..i think i could get rid of a lot of stress in that way..

i didnt know, but i guess what makes u happier makes u healthier..

i do have a problem with that..thats true..maaan..yeah i does sound like i have to take a biiiig breath A LOT of times..and i guess the more u do it(the braver u r), the better it gets.

"or being pushed in from behind by an impatient but helpful friend"-who would that be? u or him?haha

"You either require inordinate time in which to think or zero time"-sounds kinda bad..

" But yes, you 'faking it to make it' might become a moot point the minute he returns (I suspect so)"- r u telling me so im prepared?

"Like I said - ignore the posturing. There comes a point, depending on the individual, where a break sustained for "too long" can become another, added problem for the partner, heaped on top, with that show of defensiveness arising"- yeah..the defensiveness..it doesnt mean im changing anything about the passivness tho right?

yesterday:

the whole day we were doing the "im not writing u after atleast 10 mins"-thing and when i was home i told him that im a bit scared that the ticket isnt going to arrive on time(yeah i told him im going to send it)..started worring etc.he ask to skype with me and then one min later he got angry "its not gonna happen, im gonna have to buy new ticktes,the money, im mad at us, everything is shit" *madmadmadmad* and i was sitting there calling the train services to see what to do if it doesnt arrive in time (regarding refundation..).he called the danish post office to see how long its gonna take for them..

however, i said, that i understand him getting mad and that i was too, but at some point he has to change his mindset in "ok, whats the options" and let the anger go..i felt how he was blaming me the whole time..made me feel like "why the f did i tell him.." but however i said all of that, he got angrier because "ofc he is mad, and he is also entitled to be mad right now"..i just said its not gonna change the situations..

i do have to say that he keeps telling me that he feels bad over there, his dad and dads wife r really strange and making him feel very unwelcome ( asking him daily if he could leave earlier), he lost A LOT for his friends, they called 3 times to meet up while he was there(just to drink-i guess the danish people drink a lot) and he said that they just stuck together and they evoled in diff ways ( see what i did there :D )..

so maybe i should cut him some slack..

after the little argument he just wanted to have some drinks and made himself call them up. they were at their football training and had a date to watch a football match, he said ok because he just wanted some company to have some drinks and get tipsy..(him and i we dont like football)

when he was there he told me that on the way there (he biked, the danish people bike a lot..) his vino bottle got stuck in the wheel and he fell and lost the bottle and one of the beers (oooh i feel so bad :( ) ..the day couldnt get worse..

he wrote with me a bit while being there and told me he was having an argument with one of his friends, telling me that he is super disappointed in them and so on..its like everyone turned their backs on him..or lets say they r just not making him a priority, how should i react to that? i mean yeah i said that i was mad too about it and that its sad and so on...but im not quite sure what to do in that situation when he is mentioning him having so much trouble and the stress and all of that..like what should my part be? just to listen and not to say anything? or to tell him yeah poor u? or nooo, its gonna be ok?

***************************************

however, u know what i just saw? he wrote me while i was sleeping, i think u would like the msg, its really sweet ( he was a bit tipsy) but i dont wanna post it here..it feels like it was just ment for me :)

but what i can tell u is that he summerized how troubled it was/is for him and that he is ashamed of how he took me for granted etc..and then a poem..(he used to rap and he is really really good with words) really nice..but i think that im a bit cautious right now, im not letting it get to me that much..its a great pity...id like to get overwhelmed by such a nice msg..

what do u think about that?

why am i so cautions right now? i mean i do have in mind what u told me:

" You're the type who has problems with the transition point...the actual crossing, itself, of the bridge from situation A to new situation B, not the 'destination' per se."

and

"What, probably, is 'going on with you' is [1] you've got a mental backlog to think through (because he was too much of a distraction from you tending to your own needs), [2] it's suddenly SAFER to dare open that whole Pandora's Box-lid *completely*. Suddenly feeling safer is a *good* thing (think about it). And [3] You're waiting for the ultimate Green Light for inviting him back/giving him a date of return yet - still somewhat dizzy from all that one-sided rowing - not quite trusting your 'eyesight'. Well, mine's just fine and I say he's starting to make meaningful progress. Emphasis on starting, obviously. But it's a good start and a very rapid start (- told ya he's a super-fast processor)."

and

"(because right now you're not optimally receptive or appreciative)"

****************************************

"PS: 'We're' a bit late? Who's 'we'?"

-well i sent the ticket yesterday and it has to arrive in denmark on tuesday..we(me and bf), we r a tea, u know? :P

****************************************

"You've suddenly calmed down a lot, by the way. So there you go: a significant portion of what you THOUGHT was anxiety and dread about his coming home was really the opposite - GRIEVING for him. Common emotional misunderstanding. "

-u think so?haha yeah maybe, im not quite sure :) but yeah, i miss him, missed him for a looong time now tho :(

***************************************

4. gotta take a look :) thx for the tipp..oh and how do i get him to read stuff like that? him, my restless bf hahaha ( he could use it!) both of us..

***************************************

"PS: You've been a 'dream boardie' by the way. [Smiling] "

-had to google it hahaha, thank u, trying my best, its in interest too isnt it? :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 17 2016 at 10:59
Member since: 19 August 2014
I've got a feeling you're not going to have to force the physical side, anyway. I think you'll be surprised on that score...albeit that the pair of you will work up to it slowly (shyness due to the alienation aspect...bit like when you come back home after your summer holiday and the place looks both familiar and unfamiliar at the same time). But yes, a discharging of tension like you get from heavy exercise is one of the points...the other being a release of endorphins and other feel-good jello juices as remove the Black from your glasses, suddenly giving everything a much more truthful and positive light (and by that, I don't even mean positive per se - just neutral is classed as positive when coming from negative/Black). But since you and he have been needing to re-connect to the exact same wavelength as well, including trust-wise, which sex helps achieve (because it's a form of- is THE ORIGINAL long conversation featuring subtle but noticeable, mutual clarifications and, what's more, reassurances), you may as well combine the two aims into the one action and save energy. (Do it to be ecologically sound, LOL.)

But what I'm *not* doing is suggesting you should force it even where you were to find yourself faced with a situation wherein, you could tell the break hadn't done enough good to make you still want to try to proceed long-term with the relationship.

It's hard to know, yourself, really, because in that 'alien' situation you aren't ever sure whether how you feel about it is down to intuition or fear (or just plain nervousness). So in those situations, you should just (as a figure of speech) put your finger over the launch button and see what happens next...see whether you find yourself pushing that button or failing to push that button. Knowing that you really ought or need to do something or otherwise it could harm - or just fail to fortify - your precious relationship, is usually a strong enough opponent against any insecurity jitters, anyway, so usually what happens is this: your heart is sat there, telling you No/Eek/Wait/Not Sure!, with your head meantime trying to argue it round, and then - while neither of them are looking, your 'inner wisdom' suddenly bursts forth out of its hiding place and makes the very move the 'two halves' of your mind were still mid-arguing and prevaricating over. In other words, you suddenly realise you're mid-doing it (= case closed and you were right to). I sum it up as, Don't pay any attention to your inner mouths, just follow - and note - whatever your 'feet' let or make you do. (After all - ref that high-dive board scenario - it's not unknown for the ditherer to suddenly decide to go back down the ladder, is it, helpful friend trying to persuade them or not. 'NO, I'm NNNNOT doing it!', they'd say...social pressures be damned.)

Your feet always know best. :-) *Particularly* right after a break. I know you think you haven't been detaching, but - you have. A whole month's-worth, EVEN THOUGH he was constantly prodding you (it's not the same). So your whole mind is stronger, sharper, lighter and more agile, now, than the day he left. (Tip: ensure you get at least two nights' worth of quality food and sleep - which means tomorrow and Tues night.)

Yes, bravery takes practise. Not when it comes to things that don't actually scare you, despite they do other people and, therefore, 'ought to'. But it does when they do. It's not courage, otherwise, is it; what's there to be brave about if the deed doesn't scare you to begin with? And bravery is a mental muscle, same as all the other more challenging qualities/skills, like patience. They need regular pumping or they atrophy.

...a bit like boyfriends themselves. [:-D sorry, could NOT resist!)

""or being pushed in from behind by an impatient but helpful friend"-who would that be? u or him?haha"

Er, no, I wasn't planning to be lain hiding under your bed, whispering instructions, no. That costs. Per-hour, LOL. But, glad to see your sense of humour's active (excellent sign). :-)

""You either require inordinate time in which to think or zero time"-sounds kinda bad.."

Not it's not. It means you have the intelligence enough to care a great deal and take things very seriously yet *can* (or rather, your inner animal can) do 'sink or swim' acts well when there's no other choice, meaning, strong survival instinct/good genes that *insist* you live and 'pass yourself on'. Nope, nothing bad about that. And I told you you're the tortoise to his hare (which is how I know he'll have had more than enough of that 'helliday' already). That's probably why you're together...'Someone up there' felt that for as long as you were together you'd rub-off on one another into the bargain, and both end up that bit better balanced. We do all learn a lot about ourselves and our strengths and weaknesses from the whole process of being in a relationship, more than we realise.

" yeah..the defensiveness..it doesnt mean im changing anything about the passivness tho right?"

Keep that optimum state borne in mind (and call it Ladylike-ness), but adjust the dial up or down to suit the whatever you feel at the time the live/real-time situation requires or demands.

"diff ways ( see what i did there Grinning ).."

Yes. Showed how you've been getting free Colloquial English lessons, LOL.

************

Yes, of course you had to cut him some slack about his paddy over the potential ticket non-receipt. He'll have been DREAMING about coming home, Nana; the thought of it possibly not happening would have been too much... utterly CRUSHING (...although - does one even *need* the paper ticket if the booking is on the booking system?...I thought not?).

I get what you're saying, though, because you wonder if it means he's quit his efforts at keeping his cool in front of you (which would be him dropping the ball again). But that stiffness of lip would require super-human strength, all things considered. So yes, let that one pass as an extenuating circumstance requiring dispensation. Different if he'd been using something NOT that upsetting to have a right rant over because then one could say he were being dishonest/mistrustful (because there had to be something *else* upsetting in the mix to make him over-react like that, but which he weren't telling you about).

So it's all good and yes, he was justified on that occasion. And well done for having recognised it (progress :-)). And in the moment rather than merely later in hindsight (super-progress :-)).

"however, u know what i just saw? he wrote me while i was sleeping, i think u would like the msg, its really sweet ( he was a bit tipsy) but i dont wanna post it here..it feels like it was just ment for me Smiling....but what i can tell u is that he summerized how troubled it was/is for him and that he is ashamed of how he took me for granted etc..and then a poem..(he used to rap and he is really really good with words) really nice..but i think that im a bit cautious right now, im not letting it get to me that much..its a great pity...id like to get overwhelmed by such a nice msg..

what do u think about that?"

By the way... Something that might make you feel a whole lot better about return day: That was him getting tipsy - gaining Dutch Courage (as we Brits call it) - before making love (in speech format) to you. So you see? - two nervous peas in a pod! :-) In fact, he's probably worrying about whether on the night he'll be capable of 'getting it up'!...or getting it up but not lasting longer than 10 seconds! Trust me - he is under *FAR* greater pressure and stage-fright than you.

Listen - another thing - you can GET 'overwhelmed'...if you just keep a part of your mind - the non-trusting, skeptical bit - "on-call" IN CASE needed. There is *another* 'diff that makes the whole diff'. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PRETEND YOU DON'T LOVE THEM IN ORDER TO INSIST THAT THEY TREAT YOU BETTER. YOU NEVER DID. Common mistake. The POINT of this exercise HAS BEEN the message that even when weakened by the state of being in-love, you're still a sufficiently strong enough woman as to be capable of standing up for yourself as and when required, even under duress. That means... he's allowed to love you into a state of 'loved-up-ness' but he is NOT allowed to presume that must mean your eyes are completely shut with the ecstasy of it whereby he then can BE NAUGHTY AND MISBEHAVE WITHOUT YOU NOTICING. A heavyweight does not float completely off with the Honeymoon fairies, in other words. And you iz a HEAVYWEIGHT. Right? (The answer is 'right!' because you had the nerve to basically chuck him out where most women fail! (ta-daaaa!)) So he'd better watch out and behave in future and - silly him that he ever thought he could get away with kicking the cat in the first place.

He won't any more. ;-) Well... he won't suddenly become a *saint* or anything-...although - who knows - maybe he will??? Who KNOWS how much Hell it's truly been for him, in terms both of being separated from you and being there? Maybe he gave you the watered-down version?

**********

"the danish people bike a lot.."

Ah! So, if he didn't want to do p/t chef-ing when he got back (just to earn SOME money during the rest of his emigation-adaption process), he could do cycle couriering (and thereby combine it with exercise)?

***********

"when he was there he told me that on the way there (he biked, the danish people bike a lot..) his vino bottle got stuck in the wheel and he fell and lost the bottle and one of the beers (oooh i feel so bad Crying ) ..the day couldnt get worse.."

LOL. Well, you know that men have actual fist-fights over spilt beer, right?

"or lets say they r just not making him a priority, how should i react to that? i mean yeah i said that i was mad too about it and that its sad and so on...but im not quite sure what to do in that situation when he is mentioning him having so much trouble and the stress and all of that..like what should my part be? just to listen and not to say anything? or to tell him yeah poor u? or nooo, its gonna be ok?"

Well, it'd make you come across as very odd if you said nothing whatsoever, so I'd have thought the latter/sympathy, surely? Why are you even having to ask such a basic question? I reiterate: you don't ever have to pretend you *don't care* in order to gain better behaviour from them. If, for example, he were telling that story in a way that equated to his taking his negative feelings out on YOU (i.e. Cat-Kicking), you could say, 'Well, I do feel sorry for you over the fact this/that has upset you, but I'm afraid that's no excuse for 'kicking the cat', whether you realise you're doing it or not, or else this phonecall's going to do nothing but leave you feeling better but me feeling CRAP, which is just us switching places instead of fixing the cause of the upset or learning from it. So I think it'd be best for both of us if we take a quick 10-minute break from this phonecall...to give you a chance to relax and calm down a bit'. (It's a *sympathetic* form of punishment via a withdrawal of 'affection'.. a quick one to match the mild size of transgression. A 10-minute sit-down on the naughty step, if you like.) What you WANT, in future, is him asking nicely for your assistance with his problem or upset state. Diff, all the diffacalafragalisticgetsbealidocious. (;-))

(But, know this, Nana: all you're ever trying to achieve is to *heighten and do minor repairs* to his relationship performance ('pimp your ride'), not anything veering on a complete overhaul. You simply don't have the *time* in this life that it'd take to have to teach a grown man how to behave like one full-stop. [1] His parents/peers/society should have done that and [2] if you're going to go to all THAT effort then you may as well have a REAL kid. This is just about customising, not de-constructing plus re-constructing from scratch. So if you ever found you were having to teach any man the BASICS about how to conduct oneself in a romantic relationship - the most demanding, 'high-performance' relationship of the lot - with him sat there, meanwhile, not lifting a finger to help what is his own work - then, no... in that case you'd have to dump what was a proven dud.

The exception, however, is where you can tell you're learning significant self-betterment & -repair *through being with him*. If you are then maybe fair's fair because, at least the relationship is mutually beneficially symbiotic.)

I doubt that'll be your problem/extent, though. He's definitely emotionally articulate, if not as emotionally intelligent as you or any woman. So that's a great start, a great basis for speedy self-betterment (with just an occasional little leg-up from you).

************

"i miss him, missed him for a looong time now tho Crying"

Yes. And now that he's shown you're SAFE to (thanks to his effort - self-controlling as much as he humanly could + wooing you well (for him)), you can finally start to feel just HOW much, can't you.

Reading material written especially for reading a deux: "His Needs/Her Needs", by Willard F Harley (Junior). Long-term best-seller. Ignore the fact that it's aimed moreover at those with actually BROKEN relationships (adultery) - the needs bit is the point, meaning, it's just about how to shatter-proof, even trouble-proof your relationship generally, across the entire board, by keeping borne in mind the most important, time-proven principles for a good marriage/cohabitation. I.e. the housework bit in between the getting high on each other's 'drug' (chemistry) bit.

I expect the fact the title includes (and *begins* with) the words, 'his needs' should be enough to get a man wanting- nay *demanding* to read it with you, LOL. ;-)... the added side-bonus being: you'd have to snuggle up really close in bed to do so, wouldn't you. :-) ....Hey, here's a thought? Maybe it's NOT the book itself that made it a best-seller, maybe it's predominantly the cuddling-up aspect?? Or maybe the two things simultaneously?

(Have you ever *tried* having an argument when sat side-by-side on the sofa holding hands? It's like trying to cry while you're eating.)

PS: Talking of snuggling up..."'n stuff": Mine's back on Tuesday. :-) :-) :-) See you in May, then! (joke)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 18 2016 at 19:53
Member since: 27 January 2016
so, right now im feeling like crap..i just broke down..because i realized what i was doing the last days:

so yesterday we had a discussion..and at some point it wasnt going anywhere and it was so rediculous to me, because i didnt understand where his defensiveness the last days (one and a half weeks?) came from. so, when he said ( and u r going to read it anyways) im not gonna talk about this now and i dont have the nerve for it, i replayed the tapes from our last discussions and talks that triggered him feeling judged or misunderstood, here is our fight we had.oh and before u read it keep in mind that his defensiveness was driving me crazy because i havent yet discovered where it was coming from and him just being very slacky with answering and then in a way that i felt wasnt genuine..:

let me start by saying that i wanted to see how fast he would reply after i wrote him that im going to play the game we where playing together without asking him to join me..

ME:

Bby imma Play now, lets talk later

HIM:

alone?

ME:

U like Ignoring my messages huh?

Hahaha

HIM:

im playing....

ME:

Oh, before too when i asked u something and u just didnt say anything?

Hmm..

Like said something about the Car instead

HIM:

i answered with the food, but i was figuring the stuff out with the car... Didnt see that yo uwrote how it made me feell

baby... Im not ignorring you on purpose

ME:

Not me

HIM:

im a human being too, sometimes i need time to think about what to write you, or i am playing or i simply miss it...

ME:

Yeah its ok

I am well aware of all of that

But the thing is i also know how defensive u get

Fuck it like Really

HIM:

Honey, we both get very defensive, and we are working on it.. But i am not ignorring your messages on purpose.. :S

ME:

Its Not doing any good..and im the One who has to say it..but yeah im Gonna Play alone

R u Playing Alone?

Since we r asking this question

HIM:

What is not doing any good???

One who has to say what? That you're doubting me, when i've told you 5 times the last week, that i am not ignorring your messages, if i get defensive, you know, because i say something

I am playing alone, but you don't play depth.. WE have one game that we play together, and i don't play that without you.. If you wanna play alone, then fine, i was just asking because i thought you might want to play with me, but nvm

ME:

U dont always "say something"

I can sence it sweetheart

It wasnt about the gane and who is Playing what and when and with who

I couldnt care Less

I just feel this defensiveness like this morning and i dont appreciate it at all

HIM:

WHat is it that you mean with defensiveness then, sweetie?

It was about the game, that's why i asked you, but YOU went on defensive mode.. I just wanted to know if it was because you were playing with the guys, or because you didnt wanna play together now

I dont appreciate the defensiveness either, but we are both being a reason why we are defensive.

ME:

Im Not Playing "with the guys" there is Not guys

No*

And im Gonna Play After i ate

Fuck it

HIM:

what the fuck???

So abdul and mischa isnt the guys?

okay... Fine

ME:

I told u, im Not Gonna have that much contact with them

HIM:

I was just asking, because i wanted to play with you, or because i would've liked to play with you, and i felt bad when you didnt ask if i wanted to play with you... Its about the team feeling i guess... Its okay if you wanna play alone from time to time, not saying that.. Its just sounded like you weren't interested in playing with me

HIM:

Im really happy that you wanna do that for me, and for us.. I really am..

ME:

Yeah..

We can play together No Problem

HIM:

....

ME:

I just dont appreciate the defensivess like Really.. Im trying to Show Love and all of that but its very VERY hard when its happening..

HIM:

I am really trying to do that too, but you've made me feel pressured, and bad about some thing the last week.. With me buying the watch, about my brother, about the coke, about coming home, about the love etc...

It made me feel abit like i couldn't tell you everything...

Because i felt judged from you..

And pressured.

ME:

Same here

Getting angry at me at the fucking ticket

The watch? What r u talking about?

Coming home? What?

Your brother? What?

Coke? Sorry i asked why u r Taking it.. Wtf..

I just wanted to know why

Thats it

But yeah sorry..

HIM:

I was really ecited about the watch, and wanted to show it to the one person i care about... Its something that makes me happy.. And all you do is say "yeah yeah" when i show it to you, and ahh the watch again.. I showed interest in the clothes you bought, because i knew you liked (also because i liked it) but wanted to show you that i was excited about it too

HIM:

Yes, yesterday

as soon as i mentioned it with my brother you were like making me feel bad, as i did something wrong.. I had to explain all the details to you, why it was okay for me to go, but you just assumed that i did him wrong right away, which hurt

Im figuring some stuff out with myself atm, and me doing the coke, has something to do with letting go, and fully resting in myself without drugs, i don't expect you to understand, but there is some stuff i am going through with it (still)

ME:

We talked about the watch the whole Day.. And what i First didnt understand is u calling me a Big Spender but then buying a 280€ watch.. I was glad that u were happy but excuse me? Do Not call me a Big Spender when u spend so much=equality

HIM:

I didnt get mad at you only, i was mad at myself too, it wasnt okay, not to be calm in the moment, and getting angry like that, but i apoligized, and explained why i got mad, and that i was wrong..

ahhhh

so it was passive agressiveness

for the watch

ME:

No it wasnt at all

HIM:

as i said, wasn't appreciated

ME:

At all

U talked abou it the whole Time

HIM:

I was REALLY excited

i am sorry, but i was

i finally found a watch, that I ReALLY liked, fully

i didnt get one way back, because i prioritisted going to vienna instead, which i am not regretting, at all

the big spender thing was a joke, i did say somethjing about the cab tho, because its to sleep 20 more min for 15-20 euroes..

look

i really want us to change stuff

and not do this small shit anymore...

ME:

listen yes, i wanted to see what u were gonna do yesterday..u told me that u were gonna watch a movie fullstop, so ofc im gonna say "hey, i dont think thats right" thats my morals, cant change anything about that, but yes, exactly, then u explained and i thought about it and i said well then just go do your thing

the thing with the coke: i just asked why thats it

i never made a fuss about your coke thing, i just thought u arent into drugs anymore, thats why i asked why

HIM:

I already told you yesterday about all of the stuff that's going on with him, and i feel bad enough as it is... Didnt need you to make me feel wrose

I already told you, that i was gonna do some when i went to denmark

told you weren't gonna smoke, but coke i was gonna do

We have a problem with how we preceive stuff and how we react to stuff, towards each other

and its making us feel bad, and be defensive

this has to be fixed

ME:

hey, wtf, i never made u feel bad about it not on purpose, didnt u just read what i wrote..

read it again

it does, because u dont say anything and then u wonder why i react a certain way, well this is why

HIM:

on purpose, not on purpose, as i just fucking said

we have a problem with how we react to stuff towards each other, and how we preceive stuff

ME:

r really strange, why do u get so defensive about a question?

"u r judging me because if the coke"-nope, not really just asking

HIM:

Because of your reactions to stuff!

Either i dont understand why it makes you mad, why you are mad etc

ME:

ok, like when u dont even wanna READ what i read then this convo has no point, because 1. u said u were gonna watch a movie FULLSTOP and then 2.u explained and it was all good cause u actually didnt promise anything

HIM:

Like the last 2 days you've been mad at me

and annoyed at me

i get that oyu have your period, but that's not okay to be mad at me the whole time then, and that makes me defensive, and angry too

TO YOU YES!!!!

ME:

what r u talking about?

HIM:

But you just assumed that i promised him

because you didnt have faith in me

ME:

omg do u wanna argue about a word now?

HIM:

you know what

i don't even wanna argue now

we can write or talk later

because i am not in the mood for arguing

ME:

im not either hahaha, like wtf..u r assuming a lot, i didnt get angry at anything hahaha like where does that come from, the only thing is that i dont like the defensiveness and i wanted to talk about it..but when u dont even say anything and hold a grudge the whole time, then my friend thats your problem..jeeeez..hahaha

***

so, after that i havent written him, because i took the time to see where all of that was coming from, and so i replayed the tapes..and then it came to me and i recorded my thoughts because i found myself thinking out loud and that was kinda strange:

1.i guess it started with him getting an expensive watch ( he called me "the big spender") and me thinking "ok, soooo, we kinda need the money..but okaay" and then also him talking about it the whole day (and at that point and i also told him on the tape that i wasnt sure how to respond to it). i was still "careful", wanted to see if we r getting to what he was telling me ( the "lets make peace with the past and be more understanding"-talk), so i did what u mentioned and had the "i dont care"- attitude but still helped him decide on the watch and gave him the "green lights" to buy it..but in a reserved way.

2.some days later we had a talk about him stepping up for his brother and talking to his dad and stepmom about his brother being very sad and needing some counseling (mothers death, no one who was really taking care of him emotionally etc) we found ourselves almost in a situation where we were "semi arguing"..i was telling him how important it was to talk to them, that i am well aware what he was dealing with ( i had A LOT of talks with my mother about her parenting skills) and i was trying to encourge him to step up..the whole time he was telling me how thats not gonna work and that he had soo many talks with them and it never got him anywhere and i was telling him that i know how it feels like talking to stuborn people ( my parents) and that over the years i changed the way of talking to them , but i never actually stopped..well however, on the tape i mentioned that and also that i have the feeling that he was under sooo much negativity in that enviroment that i think he was thinking i was judging him and not understanding the situation..i said i was trying to help him because i recognized it and i knew he was someone who steps up..

3.some nights ago we were chatting and he was randomly telling me that he is going to do what ever and then maybe watch a movie with his brother and then all of a sudden a friend, who he didnt see for awhile, called him up saying (he lives at his moms still) "my moms not here, i can pick u up and u can stay over night"..he told me and i was thinking "ok, u know how fragile your brother is ( he cries a lot when my bf leaves and they were spending time-the little brother is 14) why r u even thinking about leaving when u said u planned the movie" and this is how i also said it ( in a way) and then he was like " u r making me feel bad, why do u do this, i havent been out at all just 3 times and i havent seen him in awhile" and AFTER that he said that it wasnt PLANNED (watching the movie) he just said "maybe" well, and then i said that it was ok, he didnt promise him anything and he needed to spend some quality time there too so he should do it..WELL..he felt like i was judging him and didnt really say anything just left..so on the tape i said "u mentioned staying home WITH your brother and AFTER i reacted to the info i HAD i made my statement, but then u gave me more info and i saw the whole picture..so there is no need to think that i either made u feel bad on purpose or judged u, because i didnt have the info u gave me AFTER i made my statement"

4.when he was at this friends place ( they used to take a lot of drugs back in the days-i guess coping mechanism and growing up in bad neighbourhoods/families) they had some coke..hm..yeah..well, i was surprised that he needed it..it gave him an energy boost(he needed) and i guess its harmelss (didnt made u as "cloudy" as weed for example) but yeah, i am kinda disappointed..but im dealing with someone for whome it was a daily thing for many many years (more weed then anything else, but still)..however, u have to imagine me being all mad (passive aggressive a bit?) because of his defensiveness and then him just mentioning it randomly when we talked the day after..and then i asked why. i was hoping for a talk we always used to have sorta like "him opening up and telling why and how it made him feel, why he needs the boost and so on.." but he got the impression "she is picking on me and judging me and she doesnt even know sh*t about what i was thinking about and why i did it" well, that WAS the point of my questions and thats what i also said on the tape..i said that i wanted some "bf opens up"-moment more then "why the hell do u do stuff like that"..

so, i basically "cleared" the misunderstandings that were causing the defense mechanism towards me on that tape and i send it to him via mail..

***(just realized how long this message is, sorry about it)***

he didnt see it right away, he did write me some info about our trip, i didnt answer tho..i thought he was watching a movie or something..he was actually having a talk with his dad and brother ( no info about what exactly yet) and he was pretty drained from it..after some time i wrote "check your mail" abd he saw and played it and then he wrote me:

HIM:

was in the living room.. Was just about to watch a movie, then dad said it was too late, and and mikkel started crying

so he went to the kitchen, i went after him,, and i told him

listening to it now grin emoticon

ME:

grin emoticon

HIM:

i felt bad about me not talking to my dad.. I had so much on my plate, that i couldnt find the energy for it, so i felt bad about you encouraging me, which i needed...

We need to have each other to push each other from time to time, because we are talking about what we want to see in each other, like the best side..

ME:

U r there now hahaha

kiss emoticon

HIM:

i am hahaha

its long, but im sucking it all up hahaha

love your voice, fyi

kiss emoticon

ME:

Im glad bby..

Well i love yours too but what Ever

Hähähä

HIM:

"i actually deleted the first one"

grin emoticon

hahahaha

ME:

I did...

HIM:

babyy heart emoticon

ME:

Shit up hahaha

HIM:

heart emoticon

ME:

heart emoticon

Done?

HIM:

not yet

like 5 min still

its like 25-30 min grin emoticon

its very good tho.. Im really glad that you took the time to make this for me, means alot to me.. Gonna tell you as soon as i am done heart emoticon

its done now

baby heart emoticon

Omg..

I love you so much...

ME:

Hahaha

HIM:

I don't know how to respond to all of that right now tho, there alot of stuff in it, but i didnt disagree one single time in it..

the 3 farts tho hahaha

so sweet.. And i love you, incredibily much...

ME:

Well, After we stopped i was like "wait a sec" something is off here.. I feel like its a deja vu and then i replayed the tape( the Chat) and it made sence to me

I love u bby heart emoticon

And i thought it was pretty unnecessary.. I also said it on the Recording i get ma because i Felt something was off there was No reason for defense but it was still happening so yeah took my Time to Rethink and boom there is was

HIM:

Same here baby... Thats why i didnt wanna fight anymore, because i got hurt, it was a deja vu for me too.. Wich hurt alot.. And instead of trying to use all the stuff we talked about to solve it there, i was just like.. I can't do this right now... I am sorry about that...

We really need to keep our communication up... ITs so unnecessary so much of the stuff... And we are so much better than that..

ME

No its totally ok, i mean it wasnt going anywhere at that point.. Thats why i took the Time to Analyse

We r bby

HIM

And we want the same stuff, that's why i know we can do it, and besides that i love you more than anything..

ME:

I love Baby

Like a lot

HIM:

heart emoticon heart emoticon heart emoticon

ME:

heart emoticon

Ive calmed down so much after having this break

Like i am Noticing stuff Way faster

And its so great

It just Needs a but Patience and practice i was

Guess

HIM:

Me too... hahaha

i would like us to solve it by talking in those situations, but sometimes i guess we also just need like 5 min haha

after some random chit chat:

HIM:

Sorry if i am not being responsive enough to your message.. I love you for making it tho, like really.. I agree with all of it, and the fight that happened earlier, already said how i felt, and why i just walked away, which i am sorry for, because that's not gonna help it in the long run.. Also, just very mentally tired after the 1,5 hours of talking with my dad and my brother

*****

so the reason why i am telling u all of this is i need your advice..how does this look like? i have the impression i am the one who is falling into old patterns..initiating..and so on..thats why i got so sad today..we ever went away and before we said "bby imma go now" and we always waited for the other person to respond and that isnt happening or like i said he is being defensive..like i am too, but i am doing the LADYLIKE thing, i think atleast..

i just have the feeling ive done something wrong again..that made him think he COULD actually play the game and do the same thing im doing-being passive or just not responding in a proper time..what is happening in his head? like i said, was i initiating too much again?

AGAIN..a lot of info, and a loong message, so sorry about it, but yeah i needed u to see the "whole picture"..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 18 2016 at 20:12
Member since: 27 January 2016
PS:

"so i did what u mentioned and had the "i dont care"- attitude but still helped him decide on the watch and gave him the "green lights" to buy it..but in a reserved way." i mean u mentioned that i DIDNT have to do it, but i still did..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 18 2016 at 22:03
Member since: 27 January 2016
so, just a little update,

we just talked and the first thing i did is that i confronted him about our talk yesterday and that i didnt really get any input from him and that it wasnt okay..i understood yesterday that he didnt had the energy to talk it out but today? he didnt even say anything..and the defensiveness was still going on..

we talked back and forth about it and at some point i was like "u feel ok realising that u did something bad or lets say didnt react in a proper way, but when i do and actually point out what made it worse for me, i was putting the "whole blame" on him, i came to this realisation because he was saying the whole time "but i wasnt getting it(what ever his needs were) from u either.."

then, i said "it wasnt ok, not initiating the talk today, not saying that something is making u mad (misunderstandings mostly) and i know that u said sorry but, thats not enought"

he just said " well i dont know what else to say, the talk just slipped trough my mind and i had a lot on my mind and to do today" REALLY???REALLY??? i am thinking about all of that the whole day..at some point it mad me sad that he wasnt prioritizing it even..jeez, this is making me mad..his random "i know, but yeah, i cant say anything else.." and i was like "ok then well i have to get going, have an early shift tomorrow" and i left skype..

jeeeeeesus soulmate....we are talking and he is agreeing on his behavior like the thing with me not being able to point his "bad behavior" out and all of that and then when i say ok but its not enough meaning "GIVE ME MORE SO WE CAN MOVE ON FROM THIS AND I CAN ACTUALLY SEE REMORSE" he says that..like "it slipped"..

and him telling me i love u so much and u r the most important thing to me is not gonna save him..its not gonna make it ok again...

he also just wrote:

I'm really sorry baby, i didnt prioritize this trip or anything else above it, it just slipped.. My head is very filled up, and im feeling a bit stressed, and jujst wanna come home to you.. It wasn't fair, and i'm sorry about that.. I know you took alot of time to make those messages, and i really appreciated it, it meant alot to me.. i'm gonna speak my mind, and im gonna really try for us to have the communication going, and flowing.. I love you more than anything baby, and you have your right to be mad at me..

i said that i am disappointed and that we should talk another time..

he send me some hearts and said good night and i love u and so on..WTF..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 19 2016 at 05:27
Member since: 19 August 2014
Here's what I see:

I see a woman who feels she's under pressure of a tight deadline trying every which way to drive her boyfriend into whichever/the nearest available corner in order to try to last-minute prod and poke him until he drops what she at this late, 'so near yet so far' panic-point fears is just a false mask of respectfulness and placatory-ness.

I see a man trying every which way to AVOID (which is the form his self-defensiveness is taking) being prodded and poked but, once cornered, *desperately* (*DESPERATELY*), yet impressively, trying to stay calm, reasonable, respectful and placatory, even going as far at one point as to 50% share blame that isn't even his. (What you're calling defensiveness looks clearly to me like desperate avoidance of contention or any potential path that might even remotely lead onto it.)

I see a woman having set an wholly unfair little test - fully indicating she doesn't want online-game-playing accompaniment when secretly she wants to hear him take her too-obscure hint and FIGHT for the right to play with her (preferably over-entitledly and arrogantly like he used to so that she can think Ah-HAH!, I *KNEW* YOU HADN'T REALLY CHANGED!).

I see a man showing instant, sometimes rather submissive acceptance of her seeming game-playing exclusion in the form of quietly mirroring her actions, and see her obviously not liking it for the fact it foils her attempt to last-minute litmus him - so much so that she in desperation takes that acceptance act as a litmus all its own, but reads the paper as saying 'Isn't quite so keen/isn't that fussed about showing his keenness now that the return-trip's booked'. (Wanna bet?!)

I see him not wanting to discuss and explain things because he's had enough of thinking about them and anyway they've nothing to do with her/his relationship and he just wants she and he to have fun together.

I see a man who's undoubtedly gone ages without being capable of making any purchases, giving in to the fact he's got some money in his pocket for once. Cut him some slack, Nana. For all you know, he got you a gift as well or will hand over what remains, OR if he hasn't/doesn't, is because he's so resolute, now, about finding the means to earn more once he's back home. I see him spending JUST ENOUGH of it, just to demonstrate that although he's been bending over backwards a bit, he's not going to come back as her actual 'b*tch' (hence (foolishly) having gone on and on about how super it is).

In short, I see you both panicking at what is a notoriously delicate/precarious-feeling point in the proceedings plus trepidation at what's going to occur once he's back, just in your own separate, very different ways. You can't recognise his keenness, now, because it's coming in a new format: 'Yes, dear, no, dear, I'll move left, then- no, okay, RIGHT, then....oh, okay - LEFT again - ...WHATEVER, dear (well, ALMOST 'whatever', dear)'. To you, it feels SLIPPERY. But I do not see any resentment or passive-aggression in him in there, just over-caution (with genuine caution underneath).

Granted, when you said you didn't want to play with him, he DID START to secretly take it negatively, hence the delay (was that the delay you meant?). But I think that was just him trying to keep it contained and to himself rather than deliberately trying to put your nose out of joint. Well... maybe 70/30 on that score. But I still see MASSIVE improvement. And then there's the fact he obviously DID in a way promise he was going to spend time with his brother, but not wanting to admit it because it would lead to being unimpressive as well as feeling guiltier than he already did.

And this bit:

Him: "I already told you yesterday about all of the stuff that's going on with him, and i feel bad enough as it is... Didnt need you to make me feel wrose"

You: hey, wtf, i never made u feel bad about it not on purpose, didnt u just read what i wrote..

read it again

it does, because u dont say anything and then u wonder why i react a certain way, well this is why"

What he MEANT to say was, I didn't need to BE *FEELING* LIKE you were trying to make me feel worse - and then feeling it to-suit - back when that was what I *mistook* you for doing. That was just clumsy semantics and syntax.

So I see a woman thinking, 'DAMN! I'M NOT SURE I'M *READY* FOR HIM TO RETURN!' and, being unaware of it, looking for other things to blame it on, as well as desperate attempt on her part to have a crystal-ball because she's worried that IF he returns with his same ol' attitude, how the hell is she going to handle it and be capable of possibly having to march him straight back out the door in the direction of the train station?

Well, she only has a tiny window. And it's a very artificial view, to-boot, now, with this 'neither here nor there' situation of his at its peak. But if you want my honest opinion, I think - apart from those few, minor 'effings' - he kept his cool *admirably*. Not sure I would have, not for that whole duration. He's semi-walking on eggshells (which is fine, considering you, in your own way that just isn't that apparent, are doing likewise) and utterly determined not to break one single shell, not even a mere CORNER of one.

Does that answer your question?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 19 2016 at 05:33
Member since: 19 August 2014
Oh, wait - I get what you're getting at now I've seen this extra conversation:

"he also just wrote:

I'm really sorry baby, i didnt prioritize this trip or anything else above it, it just slipped.. My head is very filled up, and im feeling a bit stressed, and jujst wanna come home to you.. It wasn't fair, and i'm sorry about that.. I know you took alot of time to make those messages, and i really appreciated it, it meant alot to me.. i'm gonna speak my mind, and im gonna really try for us to have the communication going, and flowing.. I love you more than anything baby, and you have your right to be mad at me..

i said that i am disappointed and that we should talk another time..

he send me some hearts and said good night and i love u and so on..WTF.."

He doesn't have anything left to hold to ransom. So he's holding THIS DEBRIEF to ransom. What I mean is this: "Don't suddenly change your mind last-minute about my return trip tomorrow, will you, OR THE DEBRIEF GETS IT!". Ha-ha, and GOD, he's desperate to come home! He may as well have just gone, 'Knock-knock?' and when you replied, 'Who's there?', said, 'Tell you once I'm sat back on your sofa!'.

Does THAT answer your question?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 19 2016 at 06:51
Member since: 27 January 2016
the last part, yes, the thing with 'Tell you once I'm sat back on your sofa!' most defifnitely!

****************************

yeah, like a lot of times u seem to have a point, ive noticed me wanting to see some steps forward and had the feeling like i wasnt and there boom this happened.

****************************

yesterday while we were talking he told me that he felt judged and misunderstood ( which apparently both of us dont like) and i explained the situations (the 4. points) to him in order for him to see that i wasnt this terrible person..however, this is reminding me sooo much of what u said "heal me and then imma show u, no u heal me first, nooooo u heal me first", this is btw how a lot of the conversation went on yesterday..thats why i was asking myself, was it a good idea taping my thoughts and sending them to him?because, i didnt wanna be the one who initiates once again..and that drove me crazy..

****************************

why im saying defensiveness the whole time is this:

he said yesterday, that him showing too much and not receiving it back ( which isnt true, i started showing him more and more affection, but remember me telling u that i cant just blindly believe him again and showering him with it-just because he had a "aaahaaaa" moment and started appreciating me again-it needs more results, doesnt it?) makes him defensive (me being ladylike makes him feel like he has to do it?!). i said that that wasnt a good approach because one of the reason why he was exiled is because i didnt feel appreciated and with his behavior which he uses to distance himself ( thats what he said himself) is not doing any good to me..he should be all over me bombarding me with attention and not just walking away to smoke or what ever before i finished what i was writing..he admitted it, he said he was looking for a way to (and i dont know if that has anything to do with all of this) to give me space (bullsh*t, he is scared of showing more then i am showing him or lets say BEFORE i show him-he wants the spoon first..)

that said, this behavior, the little misunderstanding, the feeling like u r being judged and the other person isnt trying to be there for u but tell u what u r doing wrong, made us not that genuine, atleast thats what i feel..this one talk we had..it was somehow just one talk that clean up the past, but now stuff has to follow too..i feel like i could give more and more and work on it and i told him ( im not sure anymore if i mentioned it) that i just want us to be authentic thats it, thats the most important thing..and when i look at some of our random chats and then the duration of the pauses between the replies and so on, its not authentic and he felt it too..

****************************

yeah, all of that makes me feel like "DAMN IT, IM I READY?R WE READY?"

but i still want him back..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 19 2016 at 06:55
Member since: 27 January 2016
" i said that that wasnt a good approach because one of the reason why he was exiled is because i didnt feel appreciated and with his behavior which he uses to distance himself "

-he said that he is doing it and that he didnt find the right approach yet..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 20 2016 at 14:20
Member since: 19 August 2014
Yep, you've got it, I agree with everything you observed, more or less. The only thing you yourself seem not quite sure (as in trusting) about is his INTENTIONS behind the vocalisations and e-conversational actions. Well, yes, feeling somewhat nervous and constrained with 'D-Day' approaching, thereby not free to be completely yourselves, will do that. From his point of view, it's this: If I basically show her huge love and affection in how I behave, but she turns around and cancels the trip home, am I just going to end up far more humiliated than if I hold back a bit until I'm safely back and *certain* this is still equally reciprocal? Which then causes this negative apprehension in YOU: If he's not showing enough keenness of interest, maybe I shouldn't be being quite so keen to have him back so soon? Catch 22 (and yes, that IS his fault...which then becomes your compounding).

It's understandable, though, Nana. Because being exiled feels like a rejection of self, NO MATTER if you're meanwhile trying to convey the fact that it's not HIM you've 'dismissed from the room', but his bad behaviour (because it's 'stuck to him' like a suntan). If potentially you don't let him back as scheduled - by ("yikes!") last-minute cancelling - then the fact of only your *behaviour* being sent away, becomes harder to believe. And he WOULD be suddenly paranoid about that possibility, for the simple fact that you rather passive-aggressively sent his tickets via an unreliable method, on-time-arrival wise. And why would you leave yourself open to the risk his not being able to come home as 'early' as the 20th unless a significant part of you hoped the postal service might sabotage the plan? (And it's true - you WERE quite split about it, still, weren't you.) That'll have been HIS worry. Hence when that came to light he, in macho fashion, 'burst into tears of dismay' in front of you, i.e. had a bit of an angry rant at you about it (= huge rant mostly contained but a portion escaping out).

Plus, he's got the message about how he needs to improve the ways in which he normally (over-)reacts to things that confuse, upset, disappoint or annoy him, i.e. tell you *there and then*, while it's happening, that whatever you're saying/doing is hurting his feelings for the fact it feels like it means Horrid X, so that you can immediately apologise or clear up any simple misunderstanding/misinterpretation, rather than see such honest admissions as 'non-manly' and therefore imperative to be kept to himself and bottled-up (- see how society's force-fed version of what's Manly and what's not tarnishes or completely f*cks-up men's relationships for them?). And, that bottling-up itself CAUSING the negative misinterpretation-based resentment to fester and grow, his resentment then overflows out (usually bigger than ever) in the form of his behaviour coming across as an indication of his being suddenly disinterested in you (cold, distant, uncooperative and uncommunicative).

That's just standard male-female-, in fact, LOVER-LOVER (it's not gender-specific, it's ROLE-specific - diff/all the diff) relations when there's been a 'chunk' missing from the initial relationship stages due to having communicated 99% via the ether/text instead of over the phone. Prior to his moving in, you didn't get enough practise at experiencing these clashes so that they could pose as opportunities to better explain for present and (most importantly) future reference how you each ticked so that the NEXT time something in that vein re-occurred, he could have thought back to the prior occasion and your unrestricted/full explanation thus remembered that that was just you being you and blissfully unaware of how you can seem to him, not you trying to be mean or accidentally letting slip a loss of love and interest (and same for you with him). In other words, at the point where he moved in, trust hadn't yet sufficiently been built to the same size and weight as the love and desire in order to be capable of coming to the rescue during such seemingly worrying events. That's why having enough trust is imperative, it's the arguments safety handrail / safety-net / non-slip floor coating (- this is a "Cloud 9" Health & Safety issue, LOL).

And that, by the way, is a habit you two should try to your hardest to CEASE (or at least keep to a bare minimum), albeit you're not unique in your habit (sadly). Text is for stuff like this:

Am stood outside the bar - where are you? / Inside, have pre-bought you a beer.

Be home soon, stuck in slow traffic, passing X shop soon - do you need anything? / Thanks!, yes - pint of milk.

It is NOT for this:

Her: Why didn't you wait outside the venue for me like we agreed [- thinking, are you secretly p*ssed-off with me?]

Him: I was cold

Her: [thinking, you said it!] Okay, but remember we had this conversation before about how I don't like it? [- thinking, yeah, right...more like because last night I told you I'd arranged to go for a drink with X on Friday and forgot to check with you first]

Him: Yeah, but I didn't you'd mind just this once because (etc...).

You wait until you're both face-to-face.

Any good dating guru will tell you - text can be DEATH to a relationship, either there and then or because of the foundation of bottled-up/never-aired + clarified misunderstandings-based resentments it creates.

Use the bloody phone, the pair of you! :-p ...CERTAINLY the minute any odd- or upsetting-sounding message content appears and where going 'Time-Out time!' is neither practical or practicable. You'll find it'll help A LOT.

But anyway... So it was less 'Heal me! / No, you heal ME!' than, 'Show me I'm safe to come home / No you show me I'm safe to LET you home!'. That's okay, it's just a symptom of the break. I mean, yes, breaks are godsends, but, like anything, they still have their own few downsides. It's just fortunate that those downsides are pretty easily dealt with, either at the time or the minute the lover's back on your sofa, so that they can't defeat the more important objective.

But at least I saw ON BOTH SIDES, this new habit of basically saying, this conversation is upsetting me which makes trying to sort things out right this minute a badly-timed idea so we'll have to come back to it ("Time out!"). So THAT took easily, didn't it? Progress again! :-) And why a break is a godsend, nutshelled: it alienates you from one another JUST ENOUGH for bad and problem-creating habits to get dissolved or changed for the better...something you then better see the benefits of once both safely sat back on that sofa, AND, thanks to the torture of it, means future clashes don't seem half as threatening (because you've been through THE threatening situation to beat ALL threatening situations....desensitisation and better sense of perspective in one hit).

You'll see... :-)

Also: "but i still want him back.." AS DOES HE (glaringly obviously). That's the overriding vote as proves to you that everything else is unimportant, just bog-standard nigglings and their details, from being cooped up together too much AND with one of the 'cooped-ups' being bored and lacking in proper mental stimulation and challenges most days. If he weren't intrinsically right for you and you him, underneath all this perfectly improvable surface 'froth' and nonsense, then that break would have been enough to bring that truth into too sharp relief - RIGHT in front of your nose - to be ignored and not acted on.

Good. You've passed that acid test, the pair of you/this relationship. :-) So it's just about the detail...each of you pimping your rides (so to speak, ha-ha). And like he said (re finding a better way to approach), some habits can get deliberately binned before you've a new, better habit to put in its place (requiring more thought). BUT AT LEAST HE'S AWARE THAT - FIND A NEW ONE - HE MUST. :-)

**************

What time does he 'land' - is he back already? (If you don't answer soon, I'll presume yes.)

PS: Mr S is back and unpacking. Didn't get a chance last night (a-hem!).

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 20 2016 at 15:06
Member since: 27 January 2016
he is arriving at 11:20 tonight..i have some cleaning to do after work..

ps.i figured u would answer a bit later because he is back :D

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 20 2016 at 16:37
Member since: 19 August 2014
Okay.

How are you feeling? Excited? Nervous/trepidatious? Both? But mainly excited?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 20 2016 at 17:10
Member since: 27 January 2016
hm, thats a good question..i was really excited yesterday and then for whatever reason we were talking and caming for some time..and then i got mad ( passive aggressive)..and then went to bed..i think i know why that happened:

1.)

i was thinking about the past again(after i cleaned my history on the pc)..about me not telling him every detail about it..i mean look, there isnt ANYTHING significant i am hiding or not telling but we didnt discuss every detail yet (which is normal) but he infected me with his worrying(insecurity)..(i guess it also came up because he asked me for my facebook password-after he got worried the day before-i just went to bed, if u can recall-and he wanted to check if i was writing with someone..)

i was mainly thinking about trust..and the lack of trust..the actions and then the stuff he wrote/said to me..(like u already mentioned) so, basically, a lot was going on in my head..

it is hard giving all uve got somehow..and when i dont, i dont tell him everything..for example, yesterday i had therapy and had sorta like a "OMG-AHAAAAA" moment (huge), i shared that (on facebook) with my best friend because he knew the situation and was also part of it ( too long of a story) however, i told my boyfriend, but a CUT version..it just didnt feel right..but i dont feel ok telling him the UNCUT version, because it involves my behavior towards men and me feeling uncomfortable with a collegue who is sending me vibes..and honestly, am i really gonna "add fuel to the fire"? ..

2.)

maybe i still have the feeling with the "he is/feels safe"..questions like "is that gonna make him not appreciate me again?" and so on.

3.)

him doing sooo many things while i was "there" and just looking at the screen..

********

have to go home now :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 20 2016 at 17:30
Member since: 27 January 2016
Wanna add this tho:

If i would put the just mentioned aside, i cant wait to see mr super-lovable/charming/totally equal to me :)

The Other Guy i dont need :D at all!

Ps. Point 3.:"...and ME just looking at the screen, giving him my whole attention" i have to admitt that he had Download Movies for the Trip and Cook the food he was doing..aaaand i should Cut him some slack..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 21 2016 at 19:00
Member since: 19 August 2014
Well, Rome wasn't built in a day so what you're looking for in the first instances are *signs that confirm* that he at least has indeed got shunted onto a new track, even if he hasn't actually found a newer, better method yet and is experimenting around. There again, saying that, sometimes all you need as a recouped ingredient, even if a couple doesn't get to talk *at all*, is hugely banked-up (collected-up) desire and yearning, which obviously a long break does tend to achieve.

Let me know, once you get a chance, how 'reunion night' went.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 21 2016 at 19:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
PS: And, no, he *can't* have your FB passwords, the cheeky wotsit!...unless, of course, it's a case of "swapsies"? If it is and that mutual transparency appeals as much to you as to him, then - fine. Frankly, you two could spend your days dressed up as circus clowns and inserting uncooked spaghetti pieces into each other's orifices, if that's what lit your particular candles! As long as all rights and privileges are *equal*.

When I say 'equal', though, it doesn't necessarily demand Like For exact Like; it's more the 'weight' of whatever's getting shared/swapped, whatever it is that each of you consider a fair deal. And nor does it have to be an exchange right in the moment: he can have 'this' today but next week it's your turn to receive 'that' (because you place greater value on your 'that' than his 'this').

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 22 2016 at 11:29
Member since: 27 January 2016
hello soulmate,

"reunion night" was just incredible!! i loved it,it was so intimate and yeah..it coulndt went better imo ( or ours)...

we had eachothers focus the whole time..just insane..like really.. and tbh i never wanted someone so much..(in EVERY WAY)..and yeah it was all "new" somehow or how u said "alien" :) but we loved it..and i felt so good about him being "touchy" because i actually wanted it :)

*******************

1.) we agreed to talk instead of writing(chatting)

2.)because, here is the thing, a little problem is popping up:

everything was ok, and then at some point yesterday, after he picked me up from work, he started being a bit "not in the moment" and i felt it ofc (i can sense it even with the way he kisses me). so i asked him what was going on in his head and he told me that he was worrying about work/feels bad about the money and that his self esteem is really low and all the questions like "when and what and how he is going to find work and then how its going to work out for him and that he doesnt want yet another disappointment" and i said that its important to tell me and he was really glad about it and felt better right away but he started drifting away every now and then and i got worried ( yeah he infected me..i saw that right away) and i started feeling strange and worried, it feels heavy..him being on the path of "im worried about my life, and i DONT KNOW what to do and im scared and helpless" weighs soooo extremly heavy on me..i know, that this is gonna popp up in his mind and that he was overwhelmed ( he said he is) but living in the future the whole time and worrying, like he did before, i can NOT do that, i cant have him drifting into depression again, it feels like i cant rely on him when i think about it and when it came up again, while we were watching a movie, i shed some tears and told him everything what i just told u, i said "i wanna know if u worry, we can split the weight, but i need an equal partner and someone i can rely on, depression like it was before we cant do.."

he was saying "ofc, and thats not going to happen. its normal for me to worry a bit" and that is true, he knows what happened the last time he said "being away put a lot of things in perspective and that is NOT gonna happen again"

well, however, it wasnt gone completely (the strange feelings from the talk) after the talk and i also felt a bit sick after we had some food and i fell asleep(a-heeeem was really tired because reunion-night ;) )..

this morning he took me to work because, well he wanted, and i felt like i wanted the clear the air completely, i dont want to let it seep on every other thing that popps up..and i want us to feel good about sharing stuff..we did talk about it a bit and he said that me making him feel like he cant share his thoughts makes it worse..i think what i said after was: "i wanna know stuff, i wanna be there, and i wanna be able to say that depression is not an option for me again(meaning: i want U to be THERE for ME), and im sorry that i got "mad"(i did a bit maybe..him complaining and being worried makes me feel not equal in some way..i feel like i have to take care of EVERYTHING and that makes him look like he isnt in charge of ANTHING and that doesnt make him look good in my eyes tbh)"

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 22 2016 at 13:07
Member since: 19 August 2014
You're not 'Nana', you're 'Noo Noo'...so empathetic and in-tune towards him that you 'literally' hoover up whatever strong emotions he's experiencing at any time (and get kidded, by mis-reading caused by distress clouding your normally sharp processors, into thinking they must be your own). But here's the thing: so is he. Only - he starts it, being a "worry wart" type.

Still, a bloke that always considers 'tomorrows' is no bad thing, except for when he's not quite mature and capable enough yet (YET), to handle all the ramificatory What Ifs. That's where YOU come in...like you did (tick!)... reminding him, 'Hey, we're a TEAM - su casa es *mi* casa, su worries son *mi* worries' (and vice-versa). So yes, if he has *any* thoughts/plans/worries that concern or could affect your relationship then he has to accept how they automatically belong 50% to you, meaning, he has to there-and-then or a.s.a.p. open his mouth to let you know about them so that you and he can discuss how to sort them *together* (and vice-versa). And that's difficult for one who's been raised/taught to always keep his feelings (for survivalist purposes) to himself ("...*sob*, I hate you, dad!" / '*WHACK!*, take that, you little upstart!').

So this is you, or rather, the relationship, re-training him out of bad (yet what at the time were altogether sensible and self-preservationist) habits - by THIS time, seeing himself *not* get whacked for being his most innately natural and non-suppressed, expressive self whenever warranted. 'THANKS for confiding in me, I really appreciate it and it makes me feel so much closer to you :-)' is what you say.

Men - particularly ones coming from HIS sort of background - really appreciate realising they finally have someone with whom they can (for bloody once!) enjoy total freedom to be their more natural, emotional selves (bar the antisocial or non-productive aspects, obviously). That's when you tend to end up hearing THIS sort of male phrase coming out - "I feel safe with you" - as precedes him getting down on one knee. :-)

So if YOU feel sick, etc., and you've hoovered it up BUT NOT ALL OF IT - then imagine what that felt like 'at source'.

Keep that in mind from now on: If you've been feeling okay but then suddenly without reason DON'T, that's what's going on.

Plus, the good intention is now there and he just has to find the right ways and then PRACTISE them on you a number of times until they take.

Other than that bit, though, I'd say it all sounds remarkably positive with a lot of distinctive improvements! Not least him electing to take you to work rather than stay and have a lie-in (tick!) and the "a-hem" bit (TICK!). Do you feel a lot better and more relaxed about the physical side of things now?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 22 2016 at 13:49
Member since: 27 January 2016
i dont fully understand this:

"So if YOU feel sick, etc., and you've hoovered it up BUT NOT ALL OF IT - then imagine what that felt like 'at source'.

Keep that in mind from now on: If you've been feeling okay but then suddenly without reason DON'T, that's what's going on. "

*******************************

the thing with the physical part:

i do feel A LOT better, when i focus on him and "forget how helpless he is from time to time"..thats making it kinda hard, wasnt a prob on reunion night but it started yesterday when he started mentioning him worring..it took a lot to forget about it, but at some point i didnt even try and then the stomache ache started and i gave up and fell asleep..

i also saw that before, when he was touching me (wherever), it wasnt no problem at all and i enjoyed it but after all the fussing i didnt feel that good again..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 22 2016 at 14:12
Member since: 27 January 2016
"PS: And, no, he *can't* have your FB passwords, the cheeky wotsit!...unless, of course, it's a case of "swapsies"? If it is and that mutual transparency appeals as much to you as to him, then - fine. Frankly, you two could spend your days dressed up as circus clowns and inserting uncooked spaghetti pieces into each other's orifices, if that's what lit your particular candles! As long as all rights and privileges are *equal*. "

-yeah he thought i had his and also sent it to me, when he asked me, i gave him the password and said "please, dont be rediculous-what do u think u would find? but sure, there u go" and laughed a little

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 22 2016 at 16:49
Member since: 19 August 2014
"i dont fully understand this: So if YOU feel sick, etc., and you've hoovered it up BUT NOT ALL OF IT - then imagine what that felt like 'at source'."

Humans are designed/evolved to be cooperative pack animals (bar those individuals (genetic descendants) that used to sit apart from the others, constantly studying and playing supervisor/leader - today's "loners" and those that can't help but take over-responsibility). In order to cooperate we needed to communicate. We naked apes have only had speech for...well, put it this way: your index finger: from knuckle to where the White bit on your nail starts was how long our specie communicated speechlessly, and the nail (assuming you don't have great long talons) represents for how long we've had speech. THAT LITTLE!

So before speech, we had, amongst other methods (being able to 'smell' states of mind), a form of mind-reading. That's what Empathy is, either via anywhere between imagining yourself in their shoes first or just 'knowing' automatically. It's like 'hoovering' up someone's emotional state (a complex cocktail of base emotions).

So you're Noo Noo. But what you 'hoover up' is merely a somewhat diluted-down version of the fuller impact he's experiencing. But it depends on how much you hoover because, if you hoover up TOO MUCH - they feel better and you feel worse. That's where the saying 'to have someone dump their problems on you' comes from.

********

""forget how helpless he is from time to time""

Well, [1] he's just another hairless ape (human) and [2] he's been in a pretty powerless situation, thanks to the move. So he IS going to come over helpless from time to time, as are you. But it's about - in fact, what ANYTHING is about - *DEGREES*. The degree of something is what dictates whether something's unhealthy or non-productive or not, not the presence itself of something. D/ATD (heh-heh).

********

"wasnt a prob on reunion night but it started yesterday when he started mentioning him worring..it took a lot to forget about it, but at some point i didnt even try and then the stomache ache started and i gave up and fell asleep.."

Nobody said there wasn't a DOWN-SIDE to becoming his confidante (just until you get more used to it). But, trust me, it's a lot worse for you when they're NOT spelling it out out-loud because... we have a limited range of actions/behaviours per any one cocktail of emotions/thoughts/aims, so it's very, very difficult to know whether you're analysing what's going on effectively or overlooking some extenuating data that could make all the difference in terms of switching something from Conclusion A to Conclusion B (or C...).

I'll give you a superb example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SsccRkLLzU

In order to be an effective analyser, you've got to remember (as well as have the intelligence/theory/experience/imagination) to examine behaviour from *all* angles under *the specific* subject and event condition(s), and - most important of all - the combinational ability TO MENTALLY STAND BACK AND UP so as to see/recognise/work out/imagine the entire picture + know your own mental cylinders are not at the time being bogged down by emotional over-arousal (i.e. not give a sh*t on any personal level nor have anything to lose or gain by forming a conclusion for acting upon). Detached, objective, attentive and all-viewing.

If you don't have these skills, either at all or when over-aroused, then you're left trying to "de-code" for ages, meaning, the upset feeling and stress goes on for far longer than necessary.

************

"i also saw that before, when he was touching me (wherever), it wasnt no problem at all and i enjoyed it but after all the fussing i didnt feel that good again.."

Excellent! Basically, you've just told me this: "His inner animal is perfectly happy/chirpy (and communicating that state through its 'mouth' - Touch), it's his conscious human that's not". Conclusion: It's himself he doesn't trust...and because he was the one picked you, he doesn't trust his choice and how it'll all unfold (whether he's safe or not). Good. Because that means you can just tell him to, AWWWW, SHAAADAP, MR WHINGY-WHITTLEY! :-p, or do the 'Shut up, I love you' tack.

*************

"i gave him the password and said "please, dont be rediculous-what do u think u would find? but sure, there u go" and laughed a little"

Bet you any money you like, he didn't even feel the need to actually use it because your action denoted you having absolutely nothing to hide thus be worried about. 'Empty your pockets!' / 'Sure! Be my guest! Have a look in my handbag as well, whilst you're at it!'

But he HAS only just got out of prison after a very long stretch so... give him some slack, let his emotional state come completely back down again. Might take just 3 days, might take 2 weeks. But, he will.

Know what I'm about to prescribe? More "ahem!". (Awwww, I know - I'm such a mean, hard task-master, aren't I, awww... LOL) If you 'feed' his inner animal, his inner animal will 'tell' him to shut up whittling.

What have you two got planned, going-out-wise, for tonight, considering it's Saturday night/Lovers' night?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 23 2016 at 10:01
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hey Soulmate, Reporting when i can, Little update Till then:

We grillen on the balcony, had some vino, and at some Point he got offeneded about a joke i made, and u know what i did? I didnt Start apologozing or anything and it took us some Time Till the Silence was gone but he called me sneaky and we actually laughed about it (mainly because i said its super rediculous him distroying the mood just because of a joke and it worked!!!

Gonna Check in later and answer More proper :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 23 2016 at 13:54
Member since: 19 August 2014
Okay.

What was the joke about, what exactly did you say?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 23 2016 at 15:57
Member since: 27 January 2016
Well, ok so we were Sitting and he was trying (he Has Problems talking while we r having dinner) to have a convo (was about his dad and denmark and so on) and i noticed him looking away the whole Time and i got Really annoyed so what i did was while he was telling me i looke away (was a semi joke) and then he said "ok so i guess u dont want to hear it and i laughed and said "did u see hat i just did there".

If that happened to me and we already talked about how nice it is looking eachother in the eyes and how much intimacy (especially for me) it creats, i would have just said "ah, sh*t, sorry" and would try to keep up the eye contact, but he totally got angry and said it was disrespectful.. I explained what i just explanied to u and said dont be rediculous, i just Pointer something out that i realized in that Moment..

However, at some Pont he started agreeing( i could see it in his face) and started calling me sneaky and saying that im doing this thing u always read or hear about "women being sneaky and turning something into the guys fault" .. We laughed a bit , had plenty of vino and then Went to bed (aheeeem)..

Then, i wanted to brush my Teeth because i was exhausted and go to bed, but he got super disappointed because i Went i didnt Tell him i was about to brush them and sleep, he thought we could stay up longer. At some Point i Fell asleep again.. This mir Ing he told me he was Mad yesterday and it wasnt very team-ish what i did. I said i es sorry but that i thought he was ok with is going to bed..

Then he was making breakfast and i was in a strange mood ( him feeling so Pressured still weighs very Heavy on me.. What for ? He just has to me in the Moment so we could develope some Freaking intimacy...) and i wasnt very in the mood for "hihihihih-Love talk" im Not sure why... And he Felt it.. And said "am i too lovy?am i showing too much love?" I said No and that i had to shake off the convo we had First.. Then he tried to initiate aheeem and i turned him down and said lets go to bed and be cozy there and watch some movies( i wanted us(me!!) to relax First and then slowly when my "Hard Feelings" r gone get to it..)

This joke i did, where i just Pointer something out tat he was doing is biting me in the a** right now, we were just argueing about it right now.. He is saying that im Not acknowledging how he was feeling and that im pointing it out all the Time ..let me Tell u this I AM MOST CERTAINLY NOT!

I was telling him right After he arrived here that i loved that we would Look eachother in the eyes the whiole Time an he agreed! I said how nice it is and he agreed and i said that it creats so much intimacy for me and he agreed and NOW this? Why the f*ck is he Crying like a Little p**** about it? It Makes me feel like 1. i cant Mention it 2. Makes me feel like i cant Trust him somehow 3. creats BAD MOOD .

We were talking about going to the market together to get some food and now he just took off.. Well Great.. It feels like one of us is trying to "crush the Party"...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 23 2016 at 17:33
Member since: 27 January 2016
Update:

We just started grilling again..and he apologized ( just shortly) telling me that he overreacted and he had a lot going on right now.. I said that we r a Team and well mi casa e su casa.. ( thank god i didnt feel like giving in-i mean, i did have a Short Moment of panic, but it was gone pretty quickly)

We will see what the Evening brings.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 25 2016 at 10:34
Member since: 19 August 2014
"So what I did was"? Wouldn't it have just been a lot simpler and easier to have asked him politely there and then to give you proper eye-contact during conversation? I get that you were trying to give him a taste of his own under-attentive medicine but - in THIS climate? Was that sensible? And is that really what you'd call 'a joke'?

I'm afraid I don't agree. It's what I call a missile thrown under-the-table and disguised in sense-of-humour-coloured wrapping-paper, due to an inability to assert yourself properly.

As for his own annoyance and inability to swallow his pride and just say, ooops, sorry - I guess that might have something to do with the fact he doesn't take too kindly to being manipulated when he's only just come home after 'a tour of duty on the front line'. But, more to the point - Why are you still [1] walking on eggshells, unable to just tell him straight about how you feel about something, right when it happens, and [2] so easily insulted?

Can you see how much simpler it'd have been had you just told him straight that his behaviour in that moment came across as demeaning?

That wasn't teamwork, Nana. It was you assuming the worst so treating him like the enemy and taking the opposite side to him in the boxing-ring ...*and* in an inappropriate moment.

...Not that I agree with him that it was you 'turning something into the guy's fault' because 'the guy' *was* at fault (lack of social graces, specifically self awareness and awareness of the moment (lost in thought, no doubt)). But you obviously got him into a defensive state, hence him then seeing your being so knackered you couldn't keep your eyes open for 'round two' as somehow being yet more under-the-table style, deliberate combativeness. BUT - at least he *was* (at the first opportunity) honest with you about how it'd made him feel.

See what you (nearly) started, just for want of a more direct, mild pointer/ticking-off at the dinner table?

So there you go, a perfect example of: social kack-handedness on his part, lack of honest communication on yours.

This part was good, though, because it was being sensitive and diplomatic: "said lets go to bed and be cozy there and watch some movies". However, it still wasn't 100% honest, was it, when you could have just TOLD him you needed time to cuddle and relax out of your 'mood'. So why didn't you?

"He is saying that im Not acknowledging how he was feeling and that im pointing it out all the Time ..let me Tell u this I AM MOST CERTAINLY NOT!"

If what he means is, not acknowledging how delicate he'd still feel after this whole separation come holiday from Hell (because he's only just got back onto what should be safe territory) then - OH YES YOU ARE. May BE that you'd 'just finished' telling him how eye-contact was important to you. But that doesn't mean he can stop a habit of a lifetime as instantly as all that, does it?

You ALREADY don't trust him enough. That's precisely WHY you weren't just up-front and straight about his faux pas. And he's a particularly sensitive little flower at the moment. So you can surely understand why he flounced to the shops?

And 'thank god you didn't feel like GIVING IN'? Nana, that is precisely the type of needless and avoidable behaviour that creates rather than avoids a building up of resentment that no doubt his ego will insist on working out of his system at the next available opportunity....all over you. So "pthth" to 'it worked'; that's just what YOU think.

For your own sake, let alone his or your relationship's, you need to cut that out from here on in.

Anyway, clearly you're *both* tense and walking on eggshells at the moment, just in your own different ways. So next time do what he did (""ok so i guess u dont want to hear it"), assuming you could keep your voice fairly neutral when you did so.

More sh*gging, i.e. banging your heads together the nice way, patently required!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 25 2016 at 15:41
Member since: 27 January 2016
""So what I did was"? Wouldn't it have just been a lot simpler and easier to have asked him politely there and then to give you proper eye-contact during conversation? I get that you were trying to give him a taste of his own under-attentive medicine but - in THIS climate? Was that sensible? And is that really what you'd call 'a joke'?"

i get what i did-i did the same thing he did...yeah the reason, me not being able to speak my mind(eggshells and so on), was that i am also in this "delicate state"..

i was being very careful too..and then i saw the "opportunity" and took it..i shouldve known better..i mean i did say that to him too, that if i have to cut him some slack, he has to do the same thing for me now that he is back ..u know how i am, soulmate:i think " oh great, i had his whole ATTENTION the first night, i felt so good, i finally had some trust and totally let go and he was great with that and i felt THE MAN i loved, so why isnt it working "like that" after the first night?why is the eye contact getting less again and why is the "stress and overwhelming feeling" coming back so soon..

i got irritated there, its like: 1. night: "happy, happy in love nana" and then 2. after he picked me up the next day "omg, he is such a pu**y starting to worry about EVERYTHING, leaving me to be the calm, understanding one" i need to adapt too and u know that..

***************************

"As for his own annoyance and inability to swallow his pride and just say, ooops, sorry - I guess that might have something to do with the fact he doesn't take too kindly to being manipulated when he's only just come home after 'a tour of duty on the front line'. But, more to the point - Why are you still [1] walking on eggshells, unable to just tell him straight about how you feel about something, right when it happens, and [2] so easily insulted? "

-because like i said before, i was in this great state if "OH, everything changed for the better, thank wonderful" and then his doubts came..coulnd really process that fast..

***************************

"Can you see how much simpler it'd have been had you just told him straight that his behaviour in that moment came across as demeaning?"

-hm, i didnt think about it as demeaning, more like "dont stress so much, its ok, its me, u can look me in the eyes". its more like he is being careful and INSECURE..but that focus we had on the first night made me believe in him a lot and see him as an equal somehow..

***************************

"So there you go, a perfect example of: social kack-handedness on his part, lack of honest communication on yours. "

-yep, thats right..

***************************

"If what he means is, not acknowledging how delicate he'd still feel after this whole separation come holiday from Hell (because he's only just got back onto what should be safe territory) then - OH YES YOU ARE. May BE that you'd 'just finished' telling him how eye-contact was important to you. But that doesn't mean he can stop a habit of a lifetime as instantly as all that, does it? "

-yeah, thats also right...i feel aweful now..created some sucky situations out of my insecurities and mistrust towards him...

***************************

"For your own sake, let alone his or your relationship's, you need to cut that out from here on in. "

- AND AGAIN u r right.. i noticed that..my mistrust led to him reacting and me reacting like i did.. and he said that at some point in a "funny" way: "u have to believe in me a and trust me. im overwhelmed and im trying to figure out a lot of stuff..well yeah thats true..

***************************

on sunday we went to a pub and were sitting there and drinking. he was somewhere else the whole time, and what i mean with that is looking around not "in our bubble" and i confronted him. i said " hey, u know, me react like i did and worrying about it ending up like before our break is because i feel rejected. u know how u felt rejected sexually?well i feel rejected when it comes to our bubble" he understood, and i know that its gonna take some time..but like i said, i was so happy how the first night went..and feeling the same feeling coming up again "he is worrying. not sure how and when and whats gonna happen with the next job" made me feel back..made me feel like "OH SH*T DEJA VU"..

and now i felt how he yesterday started being a bit distant(no focus on NANA)..well that was ok for me, now i understand or lets say i somehow understood yesterday too that it needs time and me pointing out all of his insecurities (exaggerating here, ofcourse, i didnt point out everything) made him "curl up" in his worries..

so, tell me for my own sake, is there a way i can cope with that now without assuming the worst or not pressuring him AND getting my "focus"?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 27 2016 at 10:57
Member since: 19 August 2014
So, re. the lack of eye-contact, you're saying, rather than distracted by internal thoughts, he was sort of shy and nervous around you, suddenly? How do you know that's the reason - did he say so? If he did then I imagine it's down to the fact that for you the break was only a month whereas for him it probably felt more like two, meaning he'll be feeling that sense of alienation a lot more keenly than you.

Anyway, the change of attitude in regards to his showing you more consideration, effort and respect was what you wanted from the break... and, going by everything he said and did whilst he was away, it sounds as if you've achieved that part. Only, [1] he has to find concrete things to APPLY that new attitude to, whereby you start to have concrete reminders of his better, more positive and enthusiastic attitude, and [2] you're not going to change his actual personality by way of his liability to be somewhat neurotic ceasing "just like that!", especially when as yet he still has things to worry about (getting a p/t job, behaving better around you and pitching in more, his kid brother, grieving for the fact his friends have moved on in his absence, etc.) and might not have finished re-adapting to being back home with you again. Only once he gets a job, with your help or just your blessing, and starts to make outside friends, will he be capable of relaxing because that active encouragement on your part will show him you're not planning on using exiling him as a regular remedy (- I expect that's a worry of his as well).

This 'change for the better' is a process, *catalysed* by the separation. It's attitude and feelings first, *then* making the progress manifest by putting it newly into application as produces results.

Have you discussed the p/t job side yet or are you allowing him a week or so to catch his breath first?

At home and in the meantime, that means you and he drawing up a roster of weekly chore-sharing (which might have to be altered again once he gets a job), such as, him keeping the place tidy, doing the shopping, and being cook every single weekday evening without fail (aside from extenuaters like being poorly or having somewhere to be) so that you aren't faced with cleaning, tidying and cooking after you come home from a hard day's work. If you're the one earning the bacon then it's mainly his job to keep the homestead sparkling and organised (with you being considerate and not creating unnecessary mess whereby he starts to feel like some sort of hotel manager/chambermaid to your client).

Basically, for the time being, he's house-husband. And then on Saturdays, you and he could - having typed him up a C.V. - go around the local businesses, e.g. cafes, bars and restaurants, to ask if they need part-time help (explaining away the fact you're accompanying him as being to play interpretor and/or because he's new to the country and doesn't know its ways sufficiently yet)m or buy the local papers to scour the job sections, look online and/or sign up with some (hospitality/catering industry?) temping agencies.

Once the job-hunting is up and running you'll probably both feel a whole lot better because *any* action is positive action, it's doing nothing and feeling paralysed/helpless that's the killer as can impact on your relationship. But him feeling useful and more confident is a process, one you're still in, so, no, not *everything* will all be instantly improved at once so it's going to take time, patience and understanding on your part. If in another 6 months' time he *still* hasn't 'got his ducks in a row', despite your support and assistance, *then* you can give your doubts the time of day. For now, that's all they are. Or as my dear late dad used to very wisely say, 'Everything is always alright in the end, so if everything isn't alright yet, that means it's simply not the end yet'. Can't argue with that. :-)

So, yes, there IS a way to cope: giving him a good week or two to settle back in (but not too much as might allow him to lapse into old slobby/layabout ways), more daytime household contribution, active job-seeking on his part (with and without your input), more "ahem", more going out regularly as a couple and having fun, fresh air and exercise (including being open to making friends with other couples), and more 'keeping your eyes on the end prize' as you remember you're going to give it another 6 months before taking stock and re-evaluating (i.e. no need to panic and assume the worst in the immediate interim).

Put it this way, *your* life still doesn't stand to lose or change that much, bar the relationship/living together situation itself, *if* it came to you eventually finding out you and he can't live together. Not so, him. So he's the one with all the worries and it's up to him to share those with you (trying harder not to be such an alarmist) rather than mentally wander off with his thoughts when in your company as some sort of preventative solution to taking his negativities out on you. I.e. yes, great if he's not going to kick the cat. But neither does the cat want him frequently wandering off elsewhere (mentally) in front of her when he's supposed to be with her in the present moment, or all he's achieving is swapping negative attention for intermittent (confusing) neglect and deprivation. Plus, if he *can* express his worries literally as and when they strike, that'll cut down his need to have one, bit 'whittle party'. And, actually, until the point where he finishes adapting and putting down proper roots, you *are* - as the one with the least practical and financial worries - the welfare boss, hence the calm, understanding one. Call it 'hostess' if you like.

It was exactly the same for me for a while (before Mr S got himself that p/t job with my help, and then, through a growing of confidence, starting up his own biz in partnership with me). He was all, whittle-whittle, worry-worry, what-if, what-if. He still does it *now*, if, say, at the close of one project there's a period of seeming nothingness/no work getting booked in ahead, emphasis on 'seeming'. And yet work always does suddenly come in (whereupon I say, 'Tooold ya!...again!'). It's *they* who are the impatient ones, really, Nana. And then they're in danger of infecting *you*. Don't take it so seriously. I mean, you can *pretend* you're taking the whittling seriously (humour him and propose or remind him of any back-up plans and solutions), but in your head you've got to think, '...it's obviously just not the end yet'.... and then say it. Because there isn't just you plus him, there is also life and other people. So while you're both thinking any situation-improvement is purely down to he and you - bam! - something walks in unexpectedly.

He can't become all *manly and masterful until he's firmly found his footing (i.e. can't start carrying you until he's used to standing and walking less shakily), so it'll happen in stages or bits and pieces, particularly as you did just uproot him, meaning it'll be as if you're both starting again from scratch. (*He can in the bedroom and the kitchen, though. ;-))

In other words, you've got to trust *life* and it's ability to see you both come out of the wash okay before you can trust yourselves and each other. Sense?

Is he a good chef? (I did ask that 'up there'/quite a while back, but at the time you obviously failed to notice.)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 27 2016 at 16:41
Member since: 27 January 2016
"So, re. the lack of eye-contact, you're saying, rather than distracted by internal thoughts, he was sort of shy and nervous around you, suddenly? How do you know that's the reason - did he say so? If he did then I imagine it's down to the fact that for you the break was only a month whereas for him it probably felt more like two, meaning he'll be feeling that sense of alienation a lot more keenly than you"

-its a mixture, its him being super super insecure (because the whole situations making him feel very "useless, worthless, lost in life in general" and also me pressuring him-i am trying not to do that at all-its just really hard tho, because EVERYTHING i say is pressuring him somehow) and he also said that he feels very very bad about himself and that he is thinking A LOT (i mentioned the topics already and u did too) atm..

the think is after this first night he started being very tense when we talk, its like he wants it to be perfect and he is scared to do something wrong and the insecurity is making it worse.

so in his head this is going on(which he told me himself):

"omg, should i look her in the eyes?i have to, she likes it.but what if i say somthing wrong?omg...such a WEIRD situation.shouldnt i be relaxing next to her? i should! be why am i not relaxed?"

this is what he told me and i said that the pressure is making him not be relaxed and tense..i said (like u told me more or less) that maybe his little voice in his head is confusing him, because he is overwhelmed but that we know that we are great together and that he shouldnt be worried about that at all..and that the first night after he came back gave me even bigger proof of that..

he is tense..like a lot..the little bubble is gone..and my reaction to that was anger, that simple..i know i shouldnt be and im gonna try and find a better way to cope with it, i know the facts..i know them but yeah, it so freaking disappointing that i am automatically withdrawing when that happens..i dont want him touching me again i dont wanna be around him or talk in the chat because i know what and how its gonna be, he is gonna be tense and he is gonna infect me with that and then im going to be mad..but i am TRYING to change that now..i cant have that happening again..its just so frustrating living with him when he is behaving like that..(all the time)

***************************************

"Only once he gets a job, with your help or just your blessing, and starts to make outside friends, will he be capable of relaxing because that active encouragement on your part will show him you're not planning on using exiling him as a regular remedy (- I expect that's a worry of his as well). "

-yeah, got that. he went to the job center and they asked him how he wants to do it, either them sending his applications to the restaurants(or other companies) or if he wants to do it on his own, he right away (while panic was arising slowly, because he thought they would apply him at really sh*tty places without him being in control of the decision "where and what") he said that he wants to do it on his own.

i have to say he hasnt mentioned anything yet..he is thinking about where and what(maybe something else then the chef-business) and so on but there isnt anything concrete on his mind. the only thing that he keeps asking me is if i could ask my mom how it works with him showing(evidence) the job center that he actually has applied on his own because my mom would know..and also because we are going to be gone in late may but he has to show them he applied every 8 days..but like i said nothing concrete is coming from him. what do u say? im not sure if i should suggest all the stuff u said, like initiating to go around and apply together or should i wait till he says something?

***************************************

"Put it this way, *your* life still doesn't stand to lose or change that much, bar the relationship/living together situation itself, *if* it came to you eventually finding out you and he can't live together. Not so, him. So he's the one with all the worries and it's up to him to share those with you (trying harder not to be such an alarmist) rather than mentally wander off with his thoughts when in your company as some sort of preventative solution to taking his negativities out on you. I.e. yes, great if he's not going to kick the cat. But neither does the cat want him frequently wandering off elsewhere (mentally) in front of her when he's supposed to be with her in the present moment, or all he's achieving is swapping negative attention for intermittent (confusing) neglect and deprivation. Plus, if he *can* express his worries literally as and when they strike, that'll cut down his need to have one, bit 'whittle party'. And, actually, until the point where he finishes adapting and putting down proper roots, you *are* - as the one with the least practical and financial worries - the welfare boss, hence the calm, understanding one. Call it 'hostess' if you like. "

-am not sure what u mean with it.

i mean yes, i understand my life is not gonna change and that i am not gonna be the one who has to worry about so many things..but the point is to make him not worry again..and that is my problem right now..i told him, often, that he has no need to worry and then i think he kinda switches to "restless mode" and THAT i dont like..its like he loses feeling in his body and then treats me without care..do u know what i mean? either its "worry worry" or he is super restless which isnt really sincere..and then i switch to "i cant trust u with me or my body" and get tense..

and when i mention that he gets offended AND pressured because in his eyes i am citicising him..

***************************************

"It was exactly the same for me for a while (before Mr S got himself that p/t job with my help, and then, through a growing of confidence, starting up his own biz in partnership with me). He was all, whittle-whittle, worry-worry, what-if, what-if. He still does it *now*, if, say, at the close of one project there's a period of seeming nothingness/no work getting booked in ahead, emphasis on 'seeming'. And yet work always does suddenly come in (whereupon I say, 'Tooold ya!...again!'). It's *they* who are the impatient ones, really, Nana. And then they're in danger of infecting *you*. Don't take it so seriously. I mean, you can *pretend* you're taking the whittling seriously (humour him and propose or remind him of any back-up plans and solutions), but in your head you've got to think, '...it's obviously just not the end yet'.... and then say it. Because there isn't just you plus him, there is also life and other people. So while you're both thinking any situation-improvement is purely down to he and you - bam! - something walks in unexpectedly. "

-already doing that (thanks to u) :) thank u, and ofcourse it is their "panic" and ofcourse he is infecting me, but not really with the his panic but more with him being so "down"-the empathy thing...and when that happens his behavior changes, like i just said "up there"..he kind of cant get out of it tho..maybe a bit more "aheem" would help..

-did u have to initiate it with MR S? or did he take matters in his own hands and started looking for jobs?

**************************************

"In other words, you've got to trust *life* and it's ability to see you both come out of the wash okay before you can trust yourselves and each other. Sense?"

-makes sense..

**************************************

he is a good chef, he is not done with his schooling, but he worked many years (3-4 which is a lot when u r that younge haha) in restaurants as a kitchen helper who slowly worked his way up :)

**************************************

so as u can see, my problem right now is MAINLY him being so down and it turinig into tention and restlessness..and then his further behavior towards me which i called "careless" "up there"..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 27 2016 at 17:11
Member since: 27 January 2016
ps.

he is talking a lot about this "tension" that is going on between us and that is what worries him too, and i told him that i really didnt feel it at all, i started feeling it on him the first time after we talked about his pressure and worries and i kinda figured (and told him) that this tension he is experiencing (and which he infected me with) is because of the pressure.. i am making myself focus him, and there isnt that much tension on my part tbh..its him..but that worries him now..

what he told me, after i said that i actually wasnt the first one to feel the tension, is: "now i feel worse"

well..what else should i tell him, a lot of the times he is tense and then he infects me with it..for no reason..maybe in situations like that i should try and find a way to relax him..maybe with Aheem, maybe with showing a lot of love and affection? im not sure yet..

the last two days i didnt tho because i first had to cope with his reappearing restlessness and my resultant anger..

*************

btw. i mean, please correct me if im wrong(with what i am coming up), but writing on here (with u) is very self therapeutic from time to time :D

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 27 2016 at 18:48
Member since: 19 August 2014
Well, he would undoubtedly STOP feeling so useless and 'very very bad' if he got on with 'thinking about' GETTING A JOB. Otherwise, this is all starting to come suspiciously across as a 'pity me, mummy' campaign of emotional pre-manipulation, as in, 'You can't make me get a job when I'm so depressed because that would make you a TOTAL COW and you wouldn't want to be that, now, would you?'.

Christ, he's only been BACK five minutes and ALREADY he's behaving in ways that could be his trying to wriggle out of (via your pity-filled permission) getting one!

Is he? Have I got that right, and this is the reason behind why you're feeling so up-and-down disillusioned already and not wanting to be around him, let alone be physically intimate? And are you saying that he's being negative via whatever comes out of his mouth and his whole demeanour, *literally* all the time since the day or day after, following his return?

"-yeah, got that. he went to the job center and they asked him how he wants to do it, either them sending his applications to the restaurants(or other companies) or if he wants to do it on his own, he right away (while panic was arising slowly, because he thought they would apply him at really sh*tty places without him being in control of the decision "where and what") he said that he wants to do it on his own.

i have to say he hasnt mentioned anything yet..he is thinking about where and what(maybe something else then the chef-business) and so on but there isnt anything concrete on his mind. the only thing that he keeps asking me is if i could ask my mom how it works with him showing(evidence) the job center that he actually has applied on his own because my mom would know..and also because we are going to be gone in late may but he has to show them he applied every 8 days..but like i said nothing concrete is coming from him. what do u say? im not sure if i should suggest all the stuff u said, like initiating to go around and apply together or should i wait till he says something?"

This is what's adding to my suspicion. He sounds like he's thinking ahead about ways in which to be SEEN as going through all the applying-for-jobs motions but where he can have the full control and privacy for subtly scuppering his chances of being actually appointable or surreptitiously turning offers down.

In fact, all you have to do is keep copies of your job application letters and any written invitations to attend an interview and so on, to show the job centre consultant when you next visit that he's meeting the minimum applications quotient but just not getting chosen for the actual job. (Do I take it, then, that he's signing on to claim state welfare (income support/job-seekers allowance) or something, hence having to prove his rate and number of applications?).

If he wants to 'do it on his own' then I think he'll find the operative word there is, DOING. Has he started looking and applying yet? Or is this what all his 'woe is me, I'm all stressed and confuuused' all about (as in, so don't make me look/apply or just not yet)?

"im not sure if i should suggest all the stuff u said, like initiating to go around and apply together or should i wait till he says something?"

That's entirely up to you, but I would have thought, considering how a job would give him motivation and lift his entire spirit, plus the fact that you're meanwhile every day funding his entire life, the answer to that would have been a Yes, wouldn't it? Back to you, in other words; I can't make your decisions for you, sorry. The ball's in your court because his getting a job or not doesn't affect me one iota, whereas, it does you, both emotionally *and* practically and financially.

"super restless which isnt really sincere"

What exactly do you mean - give me examples of what form his restlessness comes in and how you can tell it isn't sincere?

"and when i mention that he gets offended AND pressured because in his eyes i am citicising him.."

Oh I see. So because he doesn't have a job and the resultant aimlessness and feeling useless (thus not secure in his position with you) is adding to his being stressed, you aren't allowed to expect him to get GOING with the remedy of getting a job because that expectation equates to "pressure" which makes him even MORE tense? Does that about sum things up, Nana?

************

"-did u have to initiate it with MR S? or did he take matters in his own hands and started looking for jobs?"

I missed the boat a bit (oopth) and ended up causing him to lose motivation for a while. At first, come only the second month, he was chomping at the bit, majorly. But I wasn't. I asked him to hold off for a while so that we could [1] finish off our Honeymoon Period now that we didn't have distance and travel in the way (back in the days when we each still believed the myth, not least due to past relationship experiences, about it coming to a close being an inevitable/par for the relationships course (rot!) before entering the next phase), [2] to give us a chance to get used to living 24/7 in the same house, [3] and so he could improve his speaking English and get to know the area and all the road routes and shops, etc. So instead, when we weren't feasting on each other, he'd be running around doing the housework both inside and out (making me practically redundant and feeling like a remiss, lazy slob most of the time, LOL), e.g. turned our crappy little shed into a bona fide mini chalet/guest suite replete with its own decked gardenette (which put the house value up by a whopping 30k) and other house improvements and repairs/maintenance (and chauffeuring my nipper around and doing the food shopping). But then time marched on and he got a bit comfortable and stymied (or so I thought) meaning, like your fella, started making excuses or more often dismissing this/that position in terms even of mere concept ('dunlike doing that...dunlike that, either...') YET MEANWHILE - note! - suffering psychologically for not being a typical male workhorse.

However, after a sit-down talk I got him to admit the real and 'less [yawn] impressive' reason, which was, he wasn't sure he could cope in interviews without an interpretor and not land himself in an unwanted situation (like accepting a raw salary deal), which is when I suggested he just get a fairly casual, part-time job 'just for the hell of it', saw the fitting job ad, conducted the first interview with the business owner over the phone (incl negotiating a good salary), explaining about his lack of speaking confidence (which the job didn't require, thankfully) despite his many skills over and above the job spec. as made him 'cheap at half the price' where the owner was concerned, and got the interview date arranged, whereupon he felt better (having overheard the owner's reassurances) and insisted on attending the interview alone (which was fine by me)...and got offered the job there and then in the interview, which gave him a massive boost in confidence. That was mornings only, leaving him with afternoons free to continue doing up and extending this house...and then friends houses...all of which he did SO impressively (gush-gush-gush went the clients as well as me) that we decided to start up our own little biz...which we're now winding down again, LOL, bar a 'handful' of repeat clients with ongoing needs, due to having decided to move sooner to Spain. No matter, we (he!...I'll be in the pool! LOL) could start it up again over there, no problemo.

But, yes... the whole way through he's on and off regularly fallen prey to worrying that he won't be able to contribute enough dosh 'this' month. Like I say, [1] it doesn't turn out like that, [2] don't need his income anyway and never did if he's meanwhile ensuring this house sells or rents for significantly more once we move abroad... so it ends up just a waste of good whittling. But it's actually more about his PRIDE (and low boredom threshold (he's hyperactive)).

So that's how I learnt that if the bloke's raring to go when he first lands, it's a bad idea not to let him go ahead with striking whilst the love-and-elation-based confidence iron is hot, and it did cause a tiny bit of friction for a wee while there. But then, so can anything. That's just the nature of a relationship, each of you trying to find a mutually comfy position in the squishy, squished-together love armchair, without poking one another with our elbows and other bony bits, or shifting / knowing who, if not both, needs to shift when the other goes, OW, MOVE OVER, FATTIE! (- not literally, LOL). So if it hadn't been about that it undoubtedly would have been about something else.

So, in short: No. Then yes. Then no again, and now he just gets on with it whilst I get on with the "serfistikaytid" side (client contact, correspondence, scheduling of works and the like), hence constantly at my 'puter, hence "I am here".

So here's your hurdle: EITHER he's [a] still in a slump and trying to pre-create a delay; [b] PRETENDING to be in a slump and in reality wanting to remain (either forever or for a while longer) a kept man; [c] pretending, but the real reason being LACK OF JOB CONFIDENCE in a foreign land and culture. Which do you hand-on-heart think it is?

I know he's got a lot of dots to identify and connect in his mind, especially after that reminder of his original family's dysfunction, so as to better understand where he's come from in order to know where he 'is' now and intends to 'go' next, but, like I said - he can do that in the BACK of his mind, it doesn't require him to be a ladyboy wot lunches, especially when (assuming he confides his thoughts) he's got YOUR brain to network up with his...two minds being better and faster than one. So if you don't know which is the case, you need to have a proper, long talk with him to get to the bottom of his seeming reticence as is leaving him in a situation where he AGAIN has too much thinking time on his hands, an under-active imagination that gladly makes a meal out of the tiniest problems and only compounds his negative moodset, and a lack of self-esteem through not being useful and needed on a daily or at least weekly basis (bar by you).

"he is a good chef, he is not done with his schooling, but he worked many years (3-4 which is a lot when u r that younge haha) in restaurants as a kitchen helper who slowly worked his way up Smiling"

Well, if he can overcome both his pride about WHAT job he gets plus his lack of confidence as lays behind that over-choosiness (if that's what it is) then surely he could see the sense in taking anything that's going, just to have that sense of personal pride and status and money in his pocket, and so put his personal feelings about it to the backburner for a while, just until he's ready to leave the casual job and get something more meaty, possibly even following Mr S's suit in starting his own biz eventually? Alternatively, you could just tell him (if it's true) that you don't care WHAT his reasons and fears are, just as long as you know what they are, because only then can you deal with them or put with them them, whichever. Sitting in the dark, though, is just going to send you round the bend.

He's going to have to STOP thinking and just One, Two, Three, GO FOR IT!

Maybe you should frame your talk as, Just get a job/any job, part-time, purely for the fun and socialising aspect of it, just to get his foot taking the first step on that whole path?

Yes (for the Nth time ;-p) - more "ahem" definitely helps whereas *not* getting enough "ahem" does damage without you two even realising.

(I don't think you're wrong at this point, just still having trouble articulating exactly how you feel and why.)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 28 2016 at 12:03
Member since: 27 January 2016
SOULMATE:

oh gosh, i spend 1 hour writing this post and then it didnt save..frustrating.

so, i have some new info:

ive been mentioning this the last time:

"the last two days i didnt tho because i first had to cope with his reappearing restlessness and my resultant ANGER.. "

or

"he is tense..like a lot..the little bubble is gone..and my reaction to that was ANGER, that simple..i know i shouldnt be and im gonna try and find a better way to cope with it, i know the facts..i know them but yeah, it so freaking disappointing that i am automatically withdrawing when that happens..i dont want him touching me again i dont wanna be around him or talk in the chat because i know what and how its gonna be, he is gonna be tense and he is gonna infect me with that and then im going to be mad..but i am TRYING to change that now..i cant have that happening again..its just so frustrating living with him when he is behaving like that..(all the time)"

what i am trying to point out is the word ANGER.

i am getting ANGRY all the time and THAT is the problem.

he is withdrawing because i am getting ANGRY. and i am getting ANGRY because for me it feels like rejection and i take it very personally and then i get disappointed.

we had a talk yesterday:

to cut to the chase, he has been feeling aweful the whole day yesterday, not knowing why, and i came home and he SAID that there is just something about ME that makes him feel BAD.

i lost it when i heard that, i mean not literally, but i cried and said "well that hurt! i couldve said that too to u so many times while we were in the dark and didnt know what was going on"

however, its the ANGER!

i said this one is one me, because it is. he is new here and i get mad because its not how i want it to be and then i withdraw.

im taking it very personally that he is worrying and that he isnt "there yet" meaning the intimacy i(and he) wish to have and then i get ANGRY.

he told me a lot of times that he feels like i am punishing him for something and to be honest I OBVIOUSLY AM .

i am punishing him for "rejecting" me with automatical withdrawal. but he is not rejecting me..he just cant YET. he isnt there YET. the intimacy i want more often or lets say all the time he cant give me YET..

i can clearly see that THAT was what happened in START too, this is what caused all of it..us not comunicating properly, me not telling him on time that he is letting his restlessness(roughness) out on me and that its making me unconfortable and then me telling him (too OFTEN) that i want it like it was before, before he had the chance to settle and thereby pushing and pushing..

*************************************************

"What exactly do you mean - give me examples of what form his restlessness comes in and how you can tell it isn't sincere? "

well, what i mean is that he is stressed and that stress causes his restlessness.he is calling it "too much engergy" and yeah u can call it that somehow too, but for me its inner stress/tension and what i mean with its not sincere:

well, let me give u an example. he is stressed (all the time obviously) and then he wants to be close with me. he approaches me and touches me "roughly"..for me, he doesnt have in mind if im enjoying his touch or if its too rough he doesnt really feel it because he is tense..do u know what i mean? i know what im talking about because i know that behaviour from me too..i had situations, some months ago, were we were lying in bed and then i was nervous, couldnt really relax(why ever), so i found a soft spot on his leg and started strocking it. it felt good to me and i enjoyed it, but after some time he told me "honey, u r being really rough, its getting unconfortable" see what i mean?

this part makes me ANGRY too and i told him yesterday. but there is the thing with me not being fair getting ANGRY and then the just mentioned, where i guess it is ok to get mad..its a comunication problem...all of it..

*************************************************

"So here's your hurdle: EITHER he's [a] still in a slump and trying to pre-create a delay; [b] PRETENDING to be in a slump and in reality wanting to remain (either forever or for a while longer) a kept man; [c] pretending, but the real reason being LACK OF JOB CONFIDENCE in a foreign land and culture. Which do you hand-on-heart think it is? "

-well, keeping the "above" in mind,its certainly C.

u know what he told me yesterday?he said that it hit him hard, me leaving for work after reunion night and then him sitting alone at home, knowing that its no vacay anymore and he has to DO something now..

right now he is applying for some jobs, to have some proof for the job center(because of the 400€ we would get) that he is doing something..asking me for my opinion regarding his resume..

i asked him if he was looking for something "real" and he said well first priority is the proof for the J.C. (=money) but he is looking for ok-ish jobs..

after the talk we had yesterday, and after i called him this morning after he woke up because i didnt wanna do it over the chat he said that he is feeling better today, that he knows stuff has to happen, i guess thats also why he asked me to send him some job-sites and so on.

i basically said sorry again and that i can see what i have been doing and i felt bad, but also mentioned the thing with the "roughness" / "restlessness" and that we shouldnt be letting our stress out on eachother..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Apr 29 2016 at 07:21
Member since: 27 January 2016
soulmate, were is your reply from yesterday? i mean u replied too didnt u?
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Apr 29 2016 at 23:03
Member since: 19 August 2014
Good question, Nana. Yes, I did. Wait up and I'll notify technical.
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 1 2016 at 17:06
Member since: 19 August 2014
Poo and bum! Unfortunately, the deleted post can't be retrieved, and without the post of yours that I responded to (because I merged the two), I can't remember exactly what I put, other than the most important point about ensuring like a good hostess to give him as much active support and encouragement to find a 'throwaway'/starter job...as well as taking the pressure element out of it by framing it as him getting something part-time, no matter if the wage and whatever he regularly hands over as a household running costs contribution is nothing to write home about (yet), just for something to do and way to meet other guys his age... because even that will dispense with the overall fear and mental block he has and count as the first baby-step on that whole ladder. After all, that 400 Euros won't continue long-term.

I also suggested how helpful to both your moods it would be if you tried to get regular exercise together...but something fun, like tennis or ice-skating (plus "ahem"), and which encourages cooperative team spirit.

I guess he just got a bit of a shock reaction from having assumed ('making an ass out of u and me') that on his return, he and you would have a bit of a reunion holiday (probably a week or two at least), but seeing that assumption 'smashed'. Oh yes, that reminds me of something else I said, which was, I myself had taken for granted that you'd have taken a few days off, so - why didn't that occur to you to do? And is there anything you can do to make up for it?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 4 2016 at 12:27
Member since: 27 January 2016
hello soulmate!

sorry for the delay, had a lot going on.

so, let me first tell u what has been going on the past days:

we r both feeling a lot of progress in every way and when that happens i dont get the urgent need to write u to be honest, besides that i figured out a lot about myself as he did too.

we had a lot of talks, and i was more or less keeping him updated on the anger topic..we r both very similar! i figured out that a lot of our problems is caused by not expressing ourselves (in time/properly) and getting angry (and by not expressing ourselves pushing the anger "down")and then making ourselves miserable..

so now we r tyring our best (now that we have a lot of new info on what the problems are) to keep the communication going and good. both of us want the other person to say when something is up and then to solve it together..its happenening slowly, the time between addressing the problem and then finding a solution or exepting and understanding the other persons feelings r decreasing.

soulmate, this progress is great..

ofcourse there is other things playing a role:

1.)we have to find him a job and with that a lot will be easier, he already applied at 4 places, he got rejected, but it was fine for him and me , because he wants to start slowly with part time.

2.)he BUILD a bench for our balcony yesterday(!!!) hahaha, how great is that? reminds me of Mr.S

3.)i expressed how great that is (ofc) and also told him that i want to make sure (because the flat needed some cleaning) that the weight if equally distributed, as in im doing my job and its my priority and he should be doing his and making it the priority, because i cant choose what im going to do, but he "kinda" chose to the bench first instead of making dinner (or getting ALL the groceries for it) and it took some time 2-3 until he could talk to me normally (it made him angry first but then he felt bad), but HE did it! and its taking less and less time, and he agreed and also said "please keep me updates, i want u to be able to tell me stuff"

4.) he is telling me non stop how much better he is feeling, how "homy" its getting and that he is finding his place here..

5.) we talked about doing squash and im going to book us something for when hos friends r gone again (they r coming on thursday!)

6.) we were on a wedding and he wants to be more social now!(ifc i could tell u how insecure it made me him wanting to be social all of a sudden without being in a bubble with me FIRST, but we talked about it and i made up my mind not to push him..its gonna come)

7.) personal space and "time outs" r being repected slowly

just great <3

" Oh yes, that reminds me of something else I said, which was, I myself had taken for granted that you'd have taken a few days off, so - why didn't that occur to you to do? And is there anything you can do to make up for it?"

-well, i didnt do it no, i didnt think about it, i just thought( like u might know) that everything is "great" again and we can live a proper and better daily routine (so no vacay) right away.

-i guess there could be something i could do..i have to think about it..how big should it be?i can see his effort more and more (its a back and forth) and i love surprising people and making them feel very good and wanted and appreciated, maybe im a bit scared how much i should do..i still need to find the balance or lets say see the difference between giving an "ok" amount without feeling like im not receiving enough..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 4 2016 at 17:03
Member since: 19 August 2014
Oh good! And I did guess that no news probably meant good news.

Yes, that all sounds *exceptionally* positive (and super-speedy, in fact!). See? Time Out isn't just for kids! :-)

Hey - built a bench? You know what that is, don't you? ("No, SM, I don't - please do tell!" / Okay, I will, since you asked so nicely!). It's called NESTING. :-)

Is it a good bench? Did he make a meal of it and show it off proudly afterwards?...again and again and again? LOL

Might seem a bit naughty and sneaky to have 'swapped' making supper for making balcony furniture, but the good news is, A BENCH LASTS and can't be put down to being a momentary impulse or own-need catering, unlike the one-off of a meal. He obviously recognised that, hence supper went somewhat 'out of the window' for a while, in his over-enthusiasm. Did he do that because you told him about Mr S constantly making and fixing stuff and got him all competitive? :-D That'd be hilarious, not to mention a very sneakily useful tool! (Nah, only joking.)

But you'll find the bench and anything in that vein very useful, Nana. Because every time you feel short-changed but go a bit over-the-top with feeling hard-done-by, you can look at these 'concrete' tangibles and have them remind you to keep things in perspective and go a bit easier on him.

Are you planning to decorate the bench with outdoor cushions and a rug or something?...outdoor solar lights, candle votives, potted plants, etc? If he sees he's inspired you, that'll go a long way to encouraging him to do more.

Re being more transparent in the moment: You do realise you don't always have to 'say', you can always notify the other by email (if you both have more or less equal typing ability and speed). Not the dreaded text, though...never the dreaded text.

Mr S and I are in the habit of once per week asking each other, 'Everything okay?...You a happy bunny, still?...Anything niggling you?' - prevention being better and easier than cure and all that. Which it is (oh BOY is it!). What you're really achieving is being lazy the *right* way, leaving far more time and energy for the fun stuff.

Don't worry about the typical male ego-knee-jerk of anger, it's like a clearing of the throat before the sense comes out. That habit should dissipate over time as well (it's just practise).

Anyway, so that's...built a balcony bench as well as made supper; has applied for 4 jobs already; is seeing positive effects on his psyche already (turned-on); is getting ready to show off to his relationship and nest to his friends; is feeling more sociable and cooperative, incl. has agreed to regular Squash; has positively *invited* a speaking of all pertinent thoughts, including any negatives; has agreed to loosen his grip around your ankles (;-)).

The feeling more h*rny bit is the most notable positive, though, surprising though that might strike you as. Men's phee-phoos are their emotional baramoneters...or happy meters, as I sometimes call them, LOL. Ridiculous, but true.

...On which 'making up for it' and 'honeymoon encouraging' note: I suggest you plan a 'weekend duvet camp', replete with luxury foods and drink to eat in bed and lots of cool DVDs (assuming you even get round to watching them ;-)), like The Godfather or Die Hard trilogies. Or you could home-make him a handful of Massage Vouchers that he can 'cash in' any time he likes, having ordered yourself a tasteful sexy outfit, like a babydoll with stockings and suspenders and edible massage oil for the occasion? Keep it simple for the time being, just show him befitting appreciation or adulation (commensurate with size of thought and effort) for all of his upped antes. After all, let's not overlook the fact that for the last 7 months and counting, every day you've been routinely spending money on him that you COULD have and still could be putting into your holiday or old age or just plain Rainy Day fund? I'm sure it's your approval and adulation he wants more than anything.

Put it this way: as I speak, Mr S is out in the rear garden, radio on (the sun's been quite hot today, surprisingly!), planting a big palm tree 'island' out in the centre of the patio nearest the house (big square bed covered in White beach pebbles), which means pulling up and lugging really heavy stone slabs, as well as the tree itself and huge bags of pebbles. I did suggest he leave it until next week, considering his back was playing up this morning. But there's no telling him when he's so obviously addicted to my consistent, lasting shows of (genuine) immense approval and impressed-ness. You should see the size of his grin when I say 'Wow, that looks amazing, bebe!' and make 'aren't you clever/talented' noises.

So now to the topic of bf starting his own biz and an idea that occurred to me: What about if he 'advertised' his services as in-house chef and waiter for friends' and work colleagues' dinner parties at their houses? The women would really go for that...saves them having to be up and down all night long and having to 'ignore' the guests whilst constantly tied to the kitchen (not to mention the clearing-up afterwards when they're too tired and tipsy). That way, he'd earn more than if he were working for someone else, meaning, he wouldn't even have to work full-time and could pick and choose which days he worked? I mean, if you can't join 'em, BEAT 'EM, that's what I always say! Is that a viable idea for him to start considering, do you think?

Anyway, really, really pleased for you, Nana. Well done - both of you!

PS: Ha-ha: "we r both very similar!". Noooo, REALLY? Cos when I said up there, 'two peas in a pod', I was referring to the fact you both have Green skin and need a lot of watering, LOL.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 5 2016 at 16:45
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

so need(would appreciate) your input on this one:

let me start by saying bf and i r really bad at planing. so yesterday he picked me up. after that we went to the mall because we wanted to buy the train tickets for when we leave for denmark in 2-3 weeks. and that was the plan we agreed on the day before. i also started looking into coconut oil and since me and him talked a lot about the benefits of it and A LOT of other super foods for a loooong looong time, but never really started buying the stuff, i wanted to buy it already and "start the healthy life" we always talked about ( i know, sounds dramatic, its just coconut oil, but its a first step i guess) so i added that to our list and told him, ALSO THE DAY BEFORE:plan was tickets+oil!

so, we r there, buying the tickets and when we were done, we went to the super market to get some groceries he forgot to buy (again). i must admit, he told me while i was still at work, but when we were there, we had to buy almost everything we needed for the dinner and so we spend 15-20 mins there, and i DIDNT GET ANNOYED, IT WAS OK FOR ME!

well, the last stop was the "healthy food"s store and we went in and i started looking for the oil..i couldnt find it for like 2-3 mins and he started getting really really REALLY annoyed started saying "its hot in here/im getting annoyed" and letting his frustration out on me bit by bit..and i started getting annoyed too. we were there for freaking 3-4 mins and he was acting like a child. to be honest, i felt that that was gonna happen, he gave me the attitude (non verbally) "sh*t, now this"..we spend so much time on the groceries and when we have to do one thing that was ACTUALLY part of the plan(FKN go and buy the coconut oil that we always wanted to start using, and that takes less then 5 mins) he gets angry and lets it out on me and also starts saying "wooow this is expensive" "u can take this one"(smallest one ive ever seen(making me super mad because he was making my atempt of us starting to live a healthier life look rediculous). so i tell him "ok, i just have to find it, we spoke about it and its part of the plan, so why r u acting like this now" he got so pissed and then i said "if u dont want to be in the store then wait outside, give me the money im gonna pay"..OH btw before we even entered the store he was saying "u dont even know if they take visa here" (sh*tty attitude) i guess for me to say "ok then, im gonna get it another time"..

however, when i said im gonna pay he took the wallet out and "smashed" it on my hand and rushed out.i paid and then went out.and he wasnt there!

so i go towards the exit of the mall and there he goes heading to one(!) of the exits so i follow him. when im out, i say that i didnt understand why he was acting like that and that i told him he could wait outside, but he rushed out OF THE MALL. i said there r so many exits and how could i know where he went. that it was selfish and that i was really mad.

he said I COULD HAVE CALLED HIM..what?WHAT?? well good, we r already at the 2. situation i wanted to tell u about. almost SINCE HE ARRIVED HERE i was telling him to please(!) get some credit for his phone because he is constantly asking me to call him/my mother for him/whome ever needs to be called!!and i told him around 4-5 times in the last 2 weeks, did he do it? NO! but he always said he would,EVERY TIME!

and then when we were standing in front of the mall i said "why should i call u when u r the one disappearing on me like this, its so disrespectful" "this is why i told u to get some credit" and "no, im not gonna call u"

typing this makes me soooooo mad again...like really...

however,when we were back home, we started talking about this and that.he said sorry at some point (i think once or twice) and that it was wrong (i think)..then we started talking about his friends (who arrived today btw) and i asked about when what how (normal conversation) and he dindt know anything..he just knew (from what i can tell, because we were here and there talking about them coming here) that he was gonna spend all these days with them (kinda cleared his schedule for these bastards who he had to BEG(!!!!) to take one of his very heavy suitcases to vienna (u recall, he almost took his intire belongings to denmark and they needed to get back again and all that he did by train on hs OWN) and they b*tched about it for days, he even got in a fight with them because they were refusing to help him!! he was complaining about them THE WHOLE TIME WHILE HE WAS THERE! they chatted 2-3 times and saw eachother 2-3 times and when he got back he said he didnt even want them to come here..and that he always knew how they were but this showed him enough..SO YEAH, MY BF IS CLEARING HIS SCHEDULE FOR THESE A**HOLES...

i got that he wants to be social and that he needs some friends (PEOPLE in general, and they r familiar people so "yeeey") around him, i really do, thats why i was excited too. we wanted to grill with them show them around, drink with them(thats all they do basically) and the most important thing it sounded like FUN! and that was ok with me, more then ok..but the story doesnt end here because:

when , like i said, we were talking about them coming and found out that they r actually coming earlier then we expected i got a bit disappointed because i have my day off today and i thought we could do some bounding, which i was really up to since we were getting along better the comunication seemed to be getting better (i wrote u yesterday how great i (WE) were feeling when i was still at work lol), so i told him that i was, but he said well we will have today and we can do some nice and chill things..i said ok. and then it got very messy:

he was telling me how he probably wanted to drink with them here at our place and i was ok with that and i also said months ago that if he wants to do his own thing with them he could and that he should tell me the plan and i would make some plans too and maybe sleep somewhere else if i go out so they could stay here, and he always said no to that he didnt want me to be somewhere else and sleep there, but we were gonna discuss it when the time comes and now yesterday, he was asking me to sleep at my moms and to go to work from there (YEAH, thats RIGHT, i have to go to WORK tomorrow and i said i really didnt wanna do that and that he knows that i actually didnt like doing it. i told him a million times that if i sleep at her place i feel very stressed and that i dont like it, especially not when i have to work the next day..i said it was ok on the weekend but not when i have to go to work the next day and he said "I THOUGHT U WOULD DO THIS FOR ME" WHAT?????soulmate, WHAT THE HELL?did u just read that? he started making me feel bad for not sleeping at her place..he said "but u did it sooo many times, so why r u being like this now?" WHAAAT?? i mean i felt sooo hurt yesterday, like really..him making me feel bad and being so inconsiderate, i was ok with the weekend but not today...and having in the back of my head why and for whome i would stay away and take one for "the team", it just made it even worse for me...

so selfish of him..i feel like i do a lot FOR him and then that? it hurt me a lot, just that one sentence...and to be honest i think i dont even have to tell u what came next, the whole evening fighting about what ever came up and that continuing this morning and then him just leaving (with our visa(just using one card atm), without a phone, keys) just telling me well u can call me...

he made me look like im a fkn beast, that i dont want him to have fun, started badmouthing some of my female friends i dont relly consider as good friends just because he felt attacked...

he started mentioning the day before, where i sat him down AFTER i said how great the bench was and said that im receiving some vibes that maybe should be discussed before it gets heavy again and that maybe we had to make a plan on whats whose responsibility and that in some situations i feel like stuff ends up on plate rat5her then on his (one of the reasons why he should be able to call people ON HIS OWN!!!), and he was actually dismissing everything again..saying how unfair i was, how "i didnt know that he still has to adjust here" and i couldnt believe that he was saying that..like really..when i sat him down i told him about vibes that im receiving RARELY(!!!!)and he makes it look like im pressuring him and saying that he is a lazy idiot...WE AGREED ON ALL OF IT THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY, when it was time for me to go to bed (after i let him some space u recall:

"i expressed how great that is (ofc) and also told him that i want to make sure (because the flat needed some cleaning) that the weight if equally distributed, as in im doing my job and its my priority and he should be doing his and making it the priority, because i cant choose what im going to do, but he "kinda" chose to the bench first instead of making dinner (or getting ALL the groceries for it) and it took some time 2-3 HOURS until he could talk to me normally (it made him angry first but then he felt bad), but HE did it! and its taking less and less time, and he agreed and also said "please keep me updates, i want u to be able to tell me stuff" " )

he also said how bad he felt that he didnt respond right away and that he is sorry and i saw how genuin it was..and then he took that day, that conversation, the thing we actually agreed on and where he showed me that i could actually say when there is a "little weird vibe" im feeling and DISMISSED IT!

how disappointing..like really..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 5 2016 at 17:05
Member since: 27 January 2016
i do have to mention that he did try to "make amends":

he wanted us "to be friends again" and i again said what was bugging me and in a way that i felt hurt and not in a mad way AT ALL but he couldnt take it and then he got mad again...well, i coulndt "be friends" again..he didnt even feel sorry,like seriously, he just wanted me to be ok with everything and i wasnt..and he got more mad..he knows that something is off, and he knows that he was wrong but he was hurt and from that his anger came and thats why he didnt want to face his wrong doing..it hurts, so its easier just to make me the bad guy/the beast/ the too attached girlfriend/the crazy one..makes it easier, doesnt it?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 5 2016 at 17:38
Member since: 27 January 2016
i know we r gonna make up again and discuss it, i just needed to let some steam off..
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 5 2016 at 20:01
Member since: 19 August 2014
So Mister Man had PMT again and decided to use the health shop visit as his excuse to 'poo' his stress out, did he? LOL

Actually, Nana, that 'man + woman + shopping = negative drama', is normal amongst couples if they have different shopping styles, which most do. I confess I was chuckling all the way through reading it for just HOW typical. But YES, he was the one in the wrong because spoiled bubbie had had enough of shopping and wanted his way over yours. And KNOWING you couldn't call him, deliberately put you to the trouble of having to relocate him. Usually, the bloke (in the large supermarket) wanders off to another aisle yet doesn't stay put in it, meaning the woman spends tedious minutes lugging the trolley around until she finally catches up with him (cue her telling him off and him playing the innocent with all manner of pithy excuses). Men are such emotionally manipulative passive-aggressors sometimes, aren't they? ...Talking of which: Mr S and son are watching telly and eating supper. I should be sitting down with them but as I'm eating just tinned soup (dodgy stomach bug), which I've got gently heating on the hob, and have meanwhile come on here to respond to you, not only is the programme they're watching MY FAVOURITE (in terms of eating in front of the telly accompaniment), but they've got the volume SKY HIGH. That's obviously my 'punishment' for not sitting down at the same time, as well as their attempted obstruction. But if I were to point it out? - cue the annoyed and bulshy denials and playing the innocent.

So on that note, since I can barely hear myself think, I'll have to 'love you and leave you' for an hour or so or else no doubt see them both act out in whatever ways later. Bear with me? (I'll get my revenge by afterwards making them watch yet another episode of 'A Place In The Sun', heh-heh.)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 5 2016 at 21:17
Member since: 27 January 2016
Thank u for the respons! Its fine, 'do your thing' as bf would say and ill keep u updated, he just came home and there is More to the Story, so u could wait with the Rest if u want.

Little sneak peek: Police+Fight with one of the friends

Ill Write tomorrow!

Have a nice One and enjoy :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 6 2016 at 14:59
Member since: 27 January 2016
so, here it goes:

yesterday he came home from the pub where he met his friends around 17h. he came to give me some money for food and some cigs ( that was considerate, wasnt it :/ ) and he said that he was sorry and he was mainly overwhelmed and there is a lot of mixed feelings going on with them coming and then the "bench day"(already told u about that) and so on, that he missed me a lot while he was sitting with them(he felt bad that he just left while we were fighting) and that he wanted me to be a part of it. i said im going to stay home tho because i was already cozy-ing up on my own (im just gonna call it that). then he left again after we talked a bit about it.

so, the thing is, i think i was a bit too hard on him..for me its like:

they(the friends) r a**holes, not real friends and he knew and saw that and said it weeks ago.

BUT:

he needs friends here and them coming here ment also that he had familiar (male) ppl around and could have some fun.

so? im not sure how to act to be honest.because he is so disappointed in them, but happy that he can atleast have some fun..weird situation for me..1.saying that they dont even have to come, that he is so disappointed and that he always felt like that when he "needed" them and then 2. telling me while we were fighting before that "they r still my friends, ive known them since i was six"...help!?!

soo, and then when he come home at night (around 22h, because they were really tired..man, was he disappointed that they already wanted to sleep :( ) he told me he got into a fight with one of his friends..long story short, that friend is holding a grudge and he is always trying to pick on him and bf always fires back and then they got into a fist fight...then the other 2 friends came and tried to break it up, bf got held pretty good so that he coulndt do anything but the other guy wasnt so he got some free punches..(boy, that made him really really mad, especially because he would have hurt him very badly, which he obviously wanted...)

however, the other 2 friends broke them up finally after the other friend got some free punches (a**holes...!!!) so bf and the friend who was holding him went out to smoke and the police was standing outside because someone called the police. they talked to them and left again. bf was really really p*ssed..went back up to get his stuff and walked home..

he was super mad because 1. he got attacked and then didnt have the chance to "***** him up!" (bfs words, it was waaay too funny how often he said "f*ck", felt super bad too tho..)2. he was disappointed how all of them acted and that they didnt really take his side and 3. that it was so nice being in the pub with them and drinking the beers and then they needed to home and sleep because they were driving the whole night..

we were sitting outside on the balcony and he told me that he kinda felt alone and i said that he had me but he said "yeah, but the fight we had and so on" i guess he felt very misunderstood..

now, this morning he took me to work because he couldnt sleep longer and he said that he had a lot going on in his head and that he loved me, everything was fine(more or less) and that some of the situations that happened, happened because he overreacted and he was super overwhelmed..

the friend who he was fighting with tried to call him yesterday but he didnt see it, called back but no respons. now bf is saying if they dont call back soon or write him, he is going to call them, ask for his suitcase they brought with them and cancel everything they planned..so far no new info and no message from the friends..and he is super disappointed..

im not quite sure how to act right now, i told him he was right and we also made fun of them (teamed up, sort of) but its a strange situation right now..and he is feeling sh*tty..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 6 2016 at 20:53
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Thanks for waiting...I was overcome with exhaustion right after eating, sorry.)

Hans is a pusher-tester merchant. So is Mr S. It has its up-sides (thank god). But what I notice you're doing wrong is this: PANICKING. Why do you need to panic and mount this lengthy, convoluted defence case? It's not even ABOUT the fact it's your 'house' (although I note you managed not to pull out that Ace card - well done). Just equal rights and courtesies.

Were it me, I'd have just said, 'I'm not going to argue, I've TOLD you I hate staying over at my mums, and when I offered to vacate the place for a night I *obviously* meant with more notice than that, deliberately so I that I wouldn't HAVE to stay at hers. So...you've asked me (AT the 11th Hour), I've answered, the answer's EN...OH. Sorry. Would if I could (you know gorgeous-lovely me). CAN'T. End of discussion.' If Hans wants to throw a sulk about it - LET HIM. You turn on the telly...open a magazine... phone a friend... and if he won't get out of your face, leave the room (like you're bored rigid with it all) and go do something else. If he then storms out of the house - so be it. He can be a spoiled baby and show himself up all by himself, right?

Sometimes, when he was pushing too much and not letting it drop, and 'en oh' or just "YAWN" wasn't working, I used to sing my No song (to take the p*ss). Know the song or the tune to 'There's No Limit'? My version would go like this:

"No-no...NO-no, No-no...NO-no, No-no...No-no, THERE'S A LI..MIT! (and repeat) If he still pushed, I'd add a dance routine. And then *he'd* be the one to leave (flounce out of) the room and I'd get to stay relaxing in the living-room.

Got it? It's called self-asserting and standing up for yourself.

I know you find his lack of thoughtfulness and considerateness hurtful and it's that which you're reacting to. But he isn't THINKING in those terms. It's just - see it...wannit... grab for it/fight for it. Single-track-mindedness. All more upstanding thoughts, all prior agreements - you name it, it goes out the window. Berbom. It's AFTERWARDS that they survey the 'devastation' and think, Whoops-sh*t and feel like hurtful idiots. AS YOU SAW FOR YOURSELF LATER.

With more practise at having his mess boomerang around onto HIS face, he'll soon stop that silly habit of trying to overthrow or niggle you.

He probably wanted you out of the way so you wouldn't see what drunken PRATS they all behave like when they get going in a group like that (and lose respect or ardour). And so he could talk about you without you getting a big head. And maybe embellish his progress thus far (male pride and posturing).

You're not 'too hard' on him. You just engage too much with him when he's so obviously in Gorilla mode. Don't get so roped-in in future.

************

"he came to give me some money for food and some cigs"

Result! (Why weren't you happy about that?)

************

What he said about his friends weeks ago was probably just venting for something they'd done to pee him off. You obviously need to take his negative outpourings with a pinch of salt in future.

"he needs friends here and them coming here ment also that he had familiar (male) ppl around and could have some fun."

Well done.

************

"he told me he got into a fight with one of his friends..long story short, that friend is holding a grudge and he is always trying to pick on him and bf always fires back and then they got into a fist fight...then the other 2 friends came and tried to break it up, bf got held pretty good so that he coulndt do anything but the other guy wasnt so he got some free punches..(boy, that made him really really mad, especially because he would have hurt him very badly, which he obviously wanted...)"

Tsk. HOW old are they? But there you go. There it is: banked-up testosterone again, add emotional over-arousal and... But actually, for 'lads' like that, you've just described a "TRUUULY EEEEX-CELL-EEENT NIGHT OUT!". And all that feeling sorry for himself talk. Nah. He was just still drunk and getting maudlin, and trying to patch back up his image in your eyes, Nana.

Well, anyway - now you know why he wanted you out of the way for the night, don't you.

"the friend who he was fighting with tried to call him yesterday but he didnt see it, called back but no respons. now bf is saying if they dont call back soon or write him, he is going to call them, ask for his suitcase they brought with them and cancel everything they planned..so far no new info and no message from the friends..and he is super disappointed.."

"Meh-meh-MEH!" Don't worry, they'll patch things back up. This is obviously their hard-set dynamic: met at school, STILL THERE (mentally). I'm sure they've had HUNDREDS of spats like that one. No doubt in however many weeks or months from now, this'll be a brilliant group anecdote...Oh how they'll laugh about it! [rolls eyes]

I imagine his pal's already called back by now - yes?

***********

Conclusion: you take Hans *far* too seriously. Just focus on the long-lasting actions and take everything else (particularly anything negative) with a huge pinch of salt and try to humour him or take the p*ss more.

Easily done when you're still in Honeymoon and deifying them, granted (which is where you are). The TRUE test of whether you really love them (enough for a lifetime) is whether once they fall off their H/moon pedestal and you see them for the part chimp/gorilla they are, you still love them. But he obviously feels more relaxed about you/the relationship to have 'shown you his a*se' like that so that's good. Now he just needs to grow up a bit - genuinely, rather than just making all the right noises just when sober and well rested.

This is one of the reasons why men need women, Nana. To keep them grounded and sensible and behaving more gentlemanly most of the time.

You feeling better today?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 6 2016 at 21:06
Member since: 19 August 2014
Here, this might help:

You ever watched Full Metal Jacket? (Should if you haven't, it's good.) This is a scene from it:

"THIS IS MY RIFLE, THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS MINE. MY RIFLE IS MY BEST FRIEND. IT IS MY LIFE. I MUST MASTER IT AS I MASTER MY LIFE. WITHOUT ME IT IS USELESS, WITHOUT MY RIFLE I AM USELESS."

Here's the woman's version (chimp for younger men, gorilla for the older (cough) gentleman):

"This is my chimp. There are many chimps like him but this one is mine. My chimp is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life. Without me, my chimp is useless, without my chimp I am useless. (And so on.)"

Men have more gorilla in them than women (despite they have more sophisticated, spiritual humans inside them too.) And it comes out 'to play' more than women's. Your mission, come mating time, is to find yourself the LEAST pratty gorilla among them - according to your own personal tastes and standards.

:-)

(Blame your ovaries. ;-D)

By the way: Why did God invent men? Because v*brators can't mow the lawn.

(And for gender-equality purposes (in case the PC brigade start up with their whinging) - Why did God invent women? Because sheep can't type.)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 8 2016 at 16:44
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

yeah i did already feel better when u wrote me. we've kinda menaged to do stuff on our own, went to the fleemarket yesterday morning and today and grilled yesterday and the day before and it was fun (tried to distract him-and no, he didnt make up with his friends..i mean with the other two kinda-he didnt have the beef with them..but yeah, sooo silly AND its always like that, that happened a lot of times with that guy-they went to denmark this morning and we saw the two friends yesterday when we picked up his suitcase they brought..DRAMAAA!).

we noticed tho that we were pretty offensive, like a bit passive aggressive to eachother..i kinda feel like we both dont feel understood on a way..and the communication s*cks a bit too right now..

im not sure what happened last night, but at some point in was a weird and i for my part started having strange thoughts..like i felt a bit astranged in a way(guess its the same for him, and the reason is i guess the thing i just mentioned-communication!)

oh right, yesterday..we went to the fleemarket and somehome, when we got home, we saw how messy it got and i wanted to sit down first and relaxe, but bf was all "omg, its so messy" and started complaining and saying "can u do this and that" and i was like i would like to relax first and he was like "but this is stressing me out" and he had to stress me out too, obviously *eyeroll*

well yeah later that day we talked and said that the "passie-ness" (how we call it) would disappear if we would communicate better:" haha, sooo true" "yeah, we r soooo silly"..*stilleyeroll*

there is some tension again..so annoying..and he said a couple of times that "he had a *setback* with our fight and then the situation with his friends.." so annoyin soulmate..

***********************

soulmate, how do i deal with a guy who is super insecure about everything and when i try to humor stuff "im not understanding him"?

more humor?hahaha

that insecurity triggers a lot..

***********************

"Why do you need to panic and mount this lengthy, convoluted defence case?"

what am i doing?i mean i know, but..how should i see it? i am super emPATHETIC when it comes to him..

the thing is, u said that MR. S did/is doing that too, but hans is pretty damaged..its like his whole world and everyone he knew and was close to is gone and so im not sure what to do and how to react, it hurts me for him, but gad damn it, he knew HOW all these peoples (friends+family) were..and now its such a suprise and disappointment..

***********************

right now, there is a strange mood going on..we were at the fleemarket like i said and then went to my mom and there some passie-ness come up..and then he got pretty defensive and when we were about to go home i said "if there is something u wanna say go ahead"(meaning if he wants the passie ness to go away we have to adress things) he said "i hate u" (like in a semi-funny way) and then he said the same to me and i said "haha likewise" and then i got up and said "lets go" was a weird mood for sure..and then when we wanted to go and get some cigs he snapped at me because i said "hey, this register is free" twice because i didnt know that he was actually looking at something and that he already saw the other register being free.. and then i just walked out and waited outside..dumb son of a...!!!

letting his mood out on me...well not this time..i didint really say anything after that and we went home.

and since then we've been on our pc's "doing our own thing"

he did say something earlier and i said "oh is the pmt over?" and he said "is yours, haha?"

thats it..

ooooh how much i missed this sh*tty mood..SO MUCH!....NOT....

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 8 2016 at 17:46
Member since: 27 January 2016
why do i take it so personally?

-because he isnt "here"..and its hard for me to bring him "Back" or almost impossible..but i did accomplish it 2-3 times these past days..its just a bit frustrating being with someone who is SOO FRAGILE right now(and very insecure in general..especially for me because im not a blank page myself..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 10 2016 at 16:29
Member since: 19 August 2014
You need to remember and keep borne in mind that you two have hit the Power Struggle phase, which is when you're constantly clashing and fighting over seemingly almost everything, even the (under normal circumstances) shamefully petty and trivial stuff, because you've become a lot closer but haven't adapted and desensitized to it yet. If you get through this phase and manage to come out with only a few, minor 'cuts and bruises' you tend to be able to perceptibly *feel* the fact you've turned a major corner, having together found a comfortable 'position' side-by-side on the 'slightly over-small love armchair', after which it's much plainer sailing with nothing stopping you. In the meantime, however, you'd do well to realise something that's SO EASILY overlooked - namely, that you can become stressed and disturbed about *being* stressed and disturbed...which, obviously, needlessly exacerbates the tension almost two-fold. So try to remember it's just a phase that most couples go through and take it more in your stride, both of you.

I'm afraid myself and Mr S are neat freaks like your boyfriend. No matter how tired we are, we can't tolerate sitting down to relax or going upstairs to bed for the night if we know the sofa and throw cushions, etc., are in disarray, with ashtrays needing cleaning and stuff for the dishwasher yet to be loaded. 'Work first THEN play' is our motto; by 'earning' our play/relaxation first, it feels far more valuable and satisfying/rewarding. Just as well, really, because otherwise it 'itches' our minds like crazy as prevents us from relaxing. So I can relate to how boyfriend feels, and if you don't find the neatness stressful then I'm afraid this is one of those lifestyle compromises you're going to have to make (for a quiet life).

The estrangement sensation is your own unconscious doing and is another typical mental process. Happened to me, happened to Mr S, has happened to LOADS of people....happening to a close friend *right now*. It's you fighting the increase in bonding that you can 'feel' being underway but pinning it on each other/the relationship - *AND (note) HOUSEHOLD MESS* (more than usual, I mean) - as if there's something decidedly wrong, meaning, niggles are both of your unwitting attempts to mentally sneak some extra space/distance. However, the struggle itself is far more disturbing than if you just yield to the process. Plus if you keep resisting and 'parting' followed by 'reuniting', you obviously have to re-do that episode of that particular process all over again....aaand again...aaaaaand again (which is when it becomes like a stuck record and you end up throwing in the towel). And also, if your struggling episodes are out of synch, in takesie-turnsie fashion, that can make things worse too...obviously double the occurrence equals double the amount of time spent niggling/fighting or just feeling 'not in your shoes' (as Mr S says). So guess what I always prescribe in these situations, go on (LOL)?

That's right - you two need to 'plug in' more. It's the fastest antidote I know out of all the legitimate/healthy remedies.

But at least you're TALKING ABOUT IT, and AS it's going on or immediately afterwards as well. That's the only thing you need to focus on and feel happy about (and which helps majorly too), for the hugely positive sign it is for the future, being as how it's you two behaving like the team you're supposed to be. So there are no problems around here as far as I can see, just typical-human conflict between desire about 'going somewhere' and dread of 'going somewhere', both/simultaneously. But I do remember it and it is horrid and downright discombobulating for a while.

Whether fear of bonding (because that leaves you potentially vulnerable to loss and heartache...emphasis on potentially) or discomfort/claustrophobia at becoming so 'squished up' - Mr S and I call these episodes Wobbles.

Look on the bright side, though: only couples that never end up with a relationship to really write home about, being more just a 'cooperative', fail to experience that phenomenon. So it's all good. :-) Just often doesn't feel it at the time.

"soulmate, how do i deal with a guy who is super insecure about everything and when i try to humor stuff "im not understanding him"?

more humor?hahaha"

YUP! That or sympathising and making 'it'll all be okay, you'll see' noises. I call that cheerleading. However, if they take your empathy and use it to justify going too far to the point of actually self-indulging in it/being a drama queen, you could always take my tip and go: *loud finger click*...'someone somewhere just got mugged!'....*click*...'some kiddie somewhere just got raped!'.....*click*...'and now someone somewhere's just died from dysentry due to lack of clean drinking water!....Sorry, what were you saying your problem was about again?'. ;-)

PS: So was Mr S 'damaged'. Or should have been, I should say (- abusive, alcoholic, irresponsible child for a father, himself abused from an early age, followed by one sibling committing suicide and the other's heart packing up shockingly prematurely...and other majorly upsetting incidences). But that's what you're looking for, ultimately. A partner who can overcome life's greatest weights, hurdles and obstacles (I call this being a Weeble, as in the 70s ad - 'Weebles wobble but they don't fall down'). You can't know that if the person has never been through anything bad or traumatising in their life to have come out of the other side in the first place, can you.

Falling in love is stressful and highly challenging and testing.

What's funny about this situation, though, is that normally it's the *woman* who's the clean and neat freak and the man who leaves mess (and claims not to notice). Is this a product of your semi-, situation-based, gender-role reversal or has he always been a stickler for tidiness? If he is, once you're exhausted with kids, etc., YOU'LL BE LAUGHING! PS: Spookily coincidentally enough, Mr S is hoovering the whole house as we speak (using the hose attachment 'n everything!), just because 'he was in the mood for it' (not ready to relax after his day of work). :-)

But back to Hans: doesn't matter if he was aware of all these traumatic disappointments. It's not until you feel SAFE that you can allow yourself to really experience the psychological after-effects. Think about it: you don't dare sleep when in a war-zone whilst you can still sense gunfire and bombing going on, can you. So that's yet another silver lining, the fact he's feeling safe enough with you to start letting go of all those past demons from his internal Pandora's Box.

Ha-ha, 'I hate you/I hate you too' is something Mr S and I used to tongue-in-cheek say to one another during that phase! This is hilarious, it's like you and Hans are mini me and Mr S. In future, to vary it, try adding 'and, poo, you smell!'. LOL

"he did say something earlier and i said "oh is the pmt over?" and he said "is yours, haha?"

thats it.."

Well, if that was it then that was distinct progress, wasn't it? :-)

Just grit your teeth or, like you just did, try to have fun with it by taking the p*ss. It doesn't last forever.

In the meantime, have you tried just asking him what would make him feel happier and more relaxed?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 11 2016 at 17:02
Member since: 27 January 2016
thanks soulmate for all the input (and so much personal info) helps a lot with the understanding..

" So I can relate to how boyfriend feels, and if you don't find the neatness stressful then I'm afraid this is one of those lifestyle compromises you're going to have to make (for a quiet life). "

-yeah, i can make myself, somehow :) and yes, he has always been a stickler for tidiness, but now that u r mentioning the gender-role mix up, maybe its a bit of that too?

****************************************

" However, the struggle itself is far more disturbing than if you just yield to the process. Plus if you keep resisting and 'parting' followed by 'reuniting', you obviously have to re-do that episode of that particular process all over again....aaand again...aaaaaand again (which is when it becomes like a stuck record and you end up throwing in the towel). And also, if your struggling episodes are out of synch, in takesie-turnsie fashion, that can make things worse too...obviously double the occurrence equals double the amount of time spent niggling/fighting or just feeling 'not in your shoes' (as Mr S says). So guess what I always prescribe in these situations, go on (LOL)? "

-what do u mean with "partin follows by reuniting"? i understood it as "fight and then make up", but the following said the opposite all of a sudden..could u explain this to me again? sry, about that..

****************************************

"So there are no problems around here as far as I can see, just typical-human conflict between desire about 'going somewhere' and dread of 'going somewhere', both/simultaneously."

-when will we be redeemed? hahaha

"Whether fear of bonding (because that leaves you potentially vulnerable to loss and heartache...emphasis on potentially) or discomfort/claustrophobia at becoming so 'squished up' - Mr S and I call these episodes Wobbles. "

-it is scaring us from time to time tho..love is scary..and i cant wait for us to "get over that" a bit..

****************************************

"Ha-ha, 'I hate you/I hate you too' is something Mr S and I used to tongue-in-cheek say to one another during that phase! This is hilarious, it's like you and Hans are mini me and Mr S. In future, to vary it, try adding 'and, poo, you smell!'. LOL "

-was taking it really seriously in that moment..

****************************************

oh btw:

"*loud finger click*...'someone somewhere just got mugged!'....*click*...'some kiddie somewhere just got raped!'.....*click*...'and now someone somewhere's just died from dysentry due to lack of clean drinking water!....Sorry, what were you saying your problem was about again?'."

-is this one of your songs? it must drive him CRAZY hahaha, id like that too..would like to have your confidence tho :)

****************************************

"In the meantime, have you tried just asking him what would make him feel happier and more relaxed?"

-i did. more then a couple of times. us actually going out of the flat and doing stuff like the fleemarket for example is doing a lot:

1.he can get to know the city more

2.he(WE) has/have FUN, which i am insisting on right now because i saw how that gives us the opportunity to find a way to be "there " or call it "in the moment", WHICH IS SUPER SUPER IMPORTANT FOR ME and which he isnt really thinking about..but thats why he has me to sneak it in every now and then, i do hope tho, that at some point i can relax a bit and lay back, because like i said often its me who has to non-verbally make him be in the moment and "enjoy ME"..thats a bit frustrating..

****************************************

would like to tell u about the latest fight..or lets call it discussion, but "oh NO" my shift is ending in some minutes :D

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 12 2016 at 10:54
Member since: 27 January 2016
morning soulmate,

so guess what happened yesterday?

no, first let me start with what happened two days ago:

at some point we were talking about "hypotheses" and what it really is and actually thagt he once did one and i said that he sucked at it-in a funny way. and we discussed and discussed and we got angrier and more arrogant moment after moment. so at some point he said that he would really like to watch a horror movie (im not a fan, ive been scared(had fears)enough in my adult life and i just recently-with therapy-got over and worked on the fears)but because he really wanted to watch it, i said-after i first wanted to state my opinion and arrguments regarding the discussion- "well yeah ok, what ever, i dont care what we r watching"

however, i wasnt really in the mood because he started being very defensive in the arrgument and i guess i did too, and we didnt finish it, so with that mood we started watching it. i was already really really tired and it took us sooo long(the disussion) that i wasnt really in the mood, i wanted to sleep rather.

at some point i was thinking tho that he wants to do it WITH me so i cuddle up with him and started watching. then, we were holding hands, i squeezed his hand, an attempt to scare him a little, and he said "well well well, what did u wanna do there?" he didnt get scared. 5mins later, he scared the ***** out of me(was screaming etc)..i got so frightened. i got super mad at him saying that he knows why i am watching the movie with him and that im not an adrenalin junkie at all and watching that with him made me feel like i could because he was there -"i was safe"...

however, he, that same night, said that i was too trying to scare him and he was a bit confused i could tell. i told him that i want him to turn it off, because i was feeling very uncomfortable and the noises were terrible..he got super mad because he already turned the volume down but that wasnt enough and it was still pretty loud..so both of us were mad and went to sleep like that..

next morning i woke up and left without giving him a kiss goodbye..felt kinda bad about that and wrote him some hours later that im sorry about the kiss (or no kiss) he said he is too about what happened yesterday, but i wasnt really ready to take the apology, so he asked:

HIM:

how are you feeling tho baby?

ME:

Im good.. Just the thing yesterday..

Was Really P*ssed

HIM:

Yeah, that's why i was asking...

Well, we didnt finish the talking, about hypotisis, and then what made it flow over, was the scaring thing, didnt think it was fair that you scare me, and after when i do it to you, you get mad, and dont wanna talk to me...

But i am sorry about it, didnt wanna scare you that bad... And considering how you feel about horror movies, i should've told you that its not okay, when you dont want it returned.. So i'm sorry about that baby..

ME:

Well.. The thing is that we didnt finish talking about it and then its kinda strange i think that u didnt Even get scared First of all and then u STILL wanna get back at me..and i think i said everything i needed to say yesterday, i dont like horror Movies because ive Been enough scared as an adult and i am only watching it because 1. u like it and 2. i would feel safe with u and it wouldnt be that Bad.. But that didnt Happen.. U were Not Even thinking about that u were just thinking " ooh i have to get back at her" and thats aweful to me tbh consodering what i said up there

And then i was terrified and Trying to fall asleep and the noises were aweful and i was so uncomfortable and u didnt give 2 f*cks

HIM:

Look, i am sorry that i scared you, i am, and i feel bad about it, but you were trying to scare me, that was your goal, just because i dont get that scared from horror movies, doesn't mean that i dont get frightened when someone yells at me all of a sudden, and grabs me, you did scare me before too, but yeah, i shouldn't have scared you, but you shouldn't have scared me either

that's not true, about me not giving 2 f*cks, i watched 10 min, then i turned it off, didnt finish the movie, even tho i wanted to, so that's not true, i turned it off, out of respect for oyu.

ME:

I Felt Really Really uncomfortable yesterday.. Couldnt believe that i had to take my phone and Play Music so i dont feel scared.. And it would be nice if u would Realise at some Point that i only watch tat because of u and then i kinda feel like a stupid idiot when u scare me because i was actually thinking i could.. It was Really unnecessary and u couldve handled that Situation in another Way but Not having in mind that i am actually Not a fan AT ALL Bacause of me being very scared as an adult and then still scaring JUST TO GET BACK AT ME.. I dont know what to think about that..

Its ok when we do that every now and then like we do during the Day

But while we were watching a fkn Horror Movie.. And u didnt get scared u just wanted to get back at me.. I Really for know what to think about that

HIM:

I dont know what to say, i mean, i apologized, but i also want you to keep in mind that i did turn it off, so you could sleep, first i turned it down, then i turned it off after,... Besides that, it comes off like you did nothing wrong, like you can do what ever you want, but if i return the favor, then you get mad at me, and you're all like, i can't believe this etc..

ME:

I know exactly what u mean for u its "equality" when u do the Same

U never Really think about the circumstances u just want the Revange

HIM:

I don't.. I do try to put that aside, but yesterday i wasn't thinking about it, think because of the talk we had/didn't finish.. I am sorry baby..

an hour later..

ME:

Okay..Thanks honey

when i came home i was still not fully over it because it wasnt that sincere to me the whole apology and i was thinking the next time its gonna be like that again and i dont want that happening over and over again, knowing that situations did repeat a lot in the past..

but then i saw that he was feeling very bad so i tried to make "peace" again and we ate the delicious meal he made. while eating we watched a movie and after that cuddled aaa lot! i tried to show him a lot of affection because he was telling me that he felt rejected and now that "all of that" was happening, meaning his friends and family rejecting him, i need to show it even more..and yeah the fights r not really helping the whole situation..

however after we were in bed he said that he thought that i really wanted a BABY!..i was kinda shocked, he said he thought we were trying like "if it happens it happens..(my gaad, what a miscommunication..)..i mean i do have to say that we r not using protection..but im not really ready to get a kid, but i did say some time ago that i wouldnt abort if it would happen ( i had a "situation" when i was 14 and had to be operated on, the doc's told me its gonna be possible, but its gonna take a while to conceive one day-mom and stepmom had the same thing, so i wasnt worried because they had 3 kids each)

so however, he was a bit disappointed, i was trying to tell him tho that we r too young and that we need to "live" some more and im not ready to have that kinda responsibility yet and i thought that we were always joking..i think he is a bit confused right now...everything is taking a big tall on him atm..we said that one day we were gonna love to have kids, but thats about it hahaha i never planned on having kids before 30 (IF i wanna have some) and that means i have some years left and so does he..i asked then if he MAYBE was thinking about a baby because that would connect us even more and "make us " stay together and he said " well yeah, for sure " and i said that i thought about that too..

he was sad when i said "later" to the baby idea and i asked if he really was, he said yeah, he is sad in general atm..

we cuddled a bit and fell asleep.

next morning(this morning) i didnt wanna leave the bed and cuddled with him a lot..at some point i left and when i was at work i wanted to show him a little attention so i "posted" a little msg on facebook saying publicly how in love i am with him..he LOVED it :D hahaha

now, in half an hour, we r meeting for lunch..

so yeah, that my update on the situation :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 12 2016 at 11:13
Member since: 27 January 2016
PS.:

some questions tho i have for u:

-did MR.S have these long sad periods?or episodes?

-did he open up when he was feeling "safe"? and how did u deal with that?and what helped him feel better about all the stuff he went trough?id like to be of more help..

thats it for now :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 12 2016 at 18:50
Member since: 19 August 2014
"-what do u mean with "partin follows by reuniting"? i understood it as "fight and then make up", but the following said the opposite all of a sudden..could u explain this to me again? sry, about that.."

Fighting can be a desperate attempt to meet eye-to-eye and be understood (and then tighten the bond via making-up), but it can also be used as a sneakily subtle way to create mental distancing (to back off or just re-charge the batteries), whereupon physical behaviour changes to-suit by mutual sanctioning (e.g. sulking in separate rooms). The half of each of your minds that wants to continue up the bonding path is, exacerbated in your case by your back-to-front roles predicament, getting fought by the half that would rather avoid getting deeper and deeper into vulnerability territory (possibly ending up having to break-up). So that's why (- picture what's been going on inside this framework and feel the fit -) you're ending up with these spates of enjoyable harmony followed quickly by bouts of pushing each other away....'come here...go away...come back...go away'. And as I say, if you're out of synch, it can get quite messy and confusing. However, I think overall, by the fact that one of you isn't there, trying to placate when the other starts up, you're synchonised on that score.

News for you (or possibly not?): the one struggling the most with being in a full-on, serious relationship is YOU. So that, automatically, is Hans's fault (as wooer - 'this stage' boss despite you're both equal co-bosses - partners - overall). The problem Hans is experiencing looks more like being to do with his lack of having been 'house-trained' and taught how females tick when it comes to how he REACTS to this verbalised or 'vibed' state of mind of yours (really his fed back to him) and his lack of knowledge and experience when it comes to whether to 'dive under the sofa' or approach and deal with it in a *positive* way...by which I mean, WOOING the state out of you...which is only fair since it was originally his. (Think about if you're in a bad and pessimistic mood as a kid and someone tickles you and amuses you. Now think about if you get slapped.) He lacks learning, experience and confidence in his power to woo a smile back on your face and putting paid to the very issue that originally caused your frown (a lack of wooing, ironically enough). He's basically quite 'clonky' and clumsy and hasn't toned down his male ways to suit living up-close with the fairer sex. (Plus he 'got angry' because growing up he was left too much to his own devices and isn't used to sharing and compromising.)

But for that to happen takes more experience and maturity as it demands that the man place his personal feelings somewhat aside for the sake of the longer-lasting end prize: keeping his woman sweet. Because she's the HOLDER of the 'bag of sweets' (think about it). It's that or he gets himself a doormat, someone who'll suffer the workload and downsides of being the full-time boss - including taking responsibility, i.e. blame, for all arguments, and apologising and backing down - whilst simultaneously denied any of its *perks* (which the man gets). But that way lies boredom and uninspired-ness for him, and diminishing self-worth for her as the price she pays for thinking she wants - and has got - some sort of gender non-discriminate control (wronggg!...as I say, it's a case of all mouth but no trousers). So a man needs to understand that with an emotionally mature, rational woman, it's only a matter of time, anyway, before she turns round and insists on his retracting his apology (or half of it) and replacing it with her own...because women are suckers for taboos and guilt. Basically, the more a woman admires a man, the more she'll undergo the urge to do this. And there's nothing more impressive than a man who has romantic and intellectual finesse when it comes to handling the more emotionally sophisticated and complicated sex, but in such a way as not to compromise his air of masculinity, is there. I call it getting the balance right between "Ahh" and "Urrr!" (think top-selling 80s poster of naked, muscular, toned, virile man cradling naked newborn baby - the female ideal epitomised in that one shot).

Like I said, you're Noo Noo. He needs to appreciate this perk (perks get given for WORK) and - if you can't help the downside of the ordinarily huge positive of being wired to hoover up his moods and being so deeply affected by them (whereas I expect he thinks they're no big deal in the grander scheme of things...just like that punch-up with his mate) - which you can't because you've tried (and most women can't because they're *programmed* to have greater empathy for non-speaking or communication-deficient baby/toddler reasons) - then he needs to do his co-boss part and remember to ensure you're okay whenever HE isn't. It's a big ask of a man, isn't it. But then, women got childbirth (for 18 long years LOL) so - comme ci, comma ca!

Part of taking care of 'your' feelings (i.e his own now inside you) includes his telling you when he's having a bad moment or day - *as* he's having it, precisely so that you don't misidentify the cause of your feeling bad and assume the problem is you and react with anxiety.

**********

That horror film. You're either too willing to please or to avoid hassle (or both). You should have been more honest and not given up until you'd made him realise just HOW anathemic you find them. You didn't... so he 'made' you try (out of ego-equalisation for the hypotheses discussion win)...and although you could have said a flat No and gone straight to bed in silent protest (films aren't half as much fun watched alone), you got revenge under your own radar by trying to give him a jolt...he then (typical male ego) batted back but BIGGER, CLOMPIER with his over-sized hands.

But you started it. Because you failed yourself and then held him responsible. In fact, you were 50% to blame and then he was the other 50%. Or you were 100% to blame for not having convinced him before now that you REALLY, ACTUALLY can't abide horrors (meaning taboo as a will-imposer tactic) but then he took 50% and made it his. Or it was his fault for not taking you seriously and/or wanting to impose his momentary will onto the relationship. But, WHATEVER/WHICHEVER, the buck stops with him at this stage because he's supposed to be handling you in such a way as leaves you nine times out of ten purring and then feeling you can't do ENOUGH for him. Women have to be schmoozed....killed with KINDNESS.

You're with a bull in a china shop more used to hanging out with other tough lads so you're going to HAVE to learn to self-assert more firmly so as not to end up railroad-ed like this. This sort of thing *is* you and he trying to find your ultimate fit. Once you do, these routine rights and manoeuvres will become unquestioned routine habits. But what with men who are (quite right) loathe to slap women or wrestle them to the ground like they would their male compatriots, tending to act-out instead, I suspect that Hans was originally pressing you into allowing the horror film to see whether and at what point you'd rear up and yell, IT'S *MY* HOUSE AND *MY* TELLY WHICH *I* PAY FOR SO - THAT IS THAT, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT GO BACK TO PIGGING HOLLAND! (or some such, LOL).

Simpler to just ask you if he now has equal tenancy-ship out of you wanting him to stay put, right?...but that way lies exposing his vulnerability for what the question would reveal: Not sure if I'm safe and not 'throw-out-able' yet (anxiety and uncertainly aren't 'manly'..yawn). Never mind, this IS a work in progress. And this acting-out and pushing and vying for the lion's share of room in that love armchair sounds completely subconscious all the way to unconscious, meaning, nobody's out to get anybody and it's just normal, healthy bickering.

But you're not helpless by any means. You could have said, 'Sure, watch the disgusting film made by anger-issue-riddens FOR likewise issue-riddens with hatred to indulge in and feed, but I promise you the night ahead will be just as much a horror show because I *will* be farting in your face all night so that you don't get a WINK of sleep! In fact, I might even give you a surprise haircut if you drop off, whilst you're snoring away. Or I might not. Depends on you, really....tra-la-la...'. He may have muscles but physical ones aren't half as powerful as emotional ones and yours a far bigger than his for the fact you've been regularly giving yours solid workouts your whole life where he 'wasn't allowed' to (not manly to cry, not manly to get hysterical, not manly to REACT, ....etc....theirs are flaccid in comparison hence why they so easily flood and run).

I repeat, you're never helpless. Look at so-called helpless toddlers. They have 'going floppy on the supermarket floor' and embarrassing you in front of other grown-ups by making a horrendous scene.

PS: How do you think I got so confident when I certainly wasn't born that way? *Practise*. Practise makes perfect. Also, it's a bit of a vicious circle: because you're too into the relationship you daren't do anything that might spoil or end it, ergo don't feel safe enough to stand up for yourself in case you do, *which is the very thing that GETS you to feeling safe enough to stand up for yourself*. So you just have to bite the bullet/take those risks. In actual fact you're perfectly safe *if* the chemistry (glue) is really strong because then virtually nothing (within reason) can make either one of you bear to cause its end and lose that source of regular 'drug high'. However, life long-term is not fun with even a super-sexy and surface-desirable prat so you've got to behave according to logic alone in order to SEE whether he's house- and relationship-....not 'trainable' (that's when it's too much of an ask and you dump, even if it 'kills' you) but customise-able.

"-was taking it really seriously in that moment.."

No point. If you two were a bad match you'd have broken up by now after all this hassle. So that's not on the cards ergo where's the need to get upset as you stand up for your rights? There's always later or tomorrow (as long as you don't sweep under the rug), it doesn't HAVE to be right then and there in the moment. Wait until his gorilla's gone back to sleep.

When you learn to trust in your quality and longevity of glue EVEN IF you don't quite trust each other's tenacity and loyalty, is when you'll be 'redeemed'. You could be doing that NOW if you remember that you put him back in the place he kept threatening (both subtly and not) to leave you for and yet - what did he do? Nagged in myriad ways daily to come home and then did do and now 'seeks' to know whether this time you want him to stay put. Case closed. I repeat, you're safe, he's not, not really. And he knows it. Hence the way he's acting.

Maybe you should explain to him - I'm your huge bag of A1 cocaine to which you're heavily addicted but which is such high grade in purity it enhances your life and health rather than the opposite...and yesterday you basically sat down violently on me and risked splitting the bag and losing its contents. Is that intelligent? You should be looking after me like the precious source of ecstasy I am, thereby proving you're not out to make yourself unhappy. If *I'm* upset or p*ssed-off then *you're* upset or p*ssed-off because now we share even emotional states, so - OWN GOAL, MATEY (duh?), you may as well just punch your own thigh and be done with it. Bit disappointing...have always gone around telling people how clever you are. Was I wrong to? ("No") Then from now on, please prove it or leave this Lambourghini be and go find yourself a Ford Fiesta.

Say it tongue-in-cheek with a challenging smile on your face. (He's got an ego on him the size of Manhattan so that should do the trick, LOL....Manipulation for the power of good (the relationship).)

Yes, being in-love is, for the first 2 years or so, *very* scary, I can't stress it firmly or often enough. But if you keep the faith and courage and persevere, not only do you end up with a prize really worth having but also greater confidence in yourself, life/existence and people which affords major enhancements to your entire life, all areas, generally.

You could get a puppy, of course, but there's just as much stress in that IF YOU LOVE IT. Wee and poo regularly all over your floors, chewed up prized possessions, constant whining all night long, etc., etc., etc., until it's trained per-se or according to what suits you in particular.

However, there's an underlying day-saver in play, despite over-lookable, and that's this: boredom. Sooner or later you get plain bored of bickering and cease fearing that giving in today over X, Y or Z means giving in forever when you stop to remember that what matters changes as WE grow and change ("I thought you HATED carrots?!"). If you don't eventually start to grow bored of it, you're wrong for each other full-stop and/or are outright drama queens. You're not wrong for each other because not only are the arguments becoming milder and shorter-lived but they're also about purely petty stuff (mere excuses) so this is just about 'for the Nth time, get your elbow out of my ribs, you fat basstud!', a bit like how cats pound the cushion with their claws before settling down to nap.

(No, it's not a song. The finger click is to symbolise the very moment these terrible things are taking place, i.e. as you speak.)

"-was taking it really seriously in that moment.."

If it was only in the moment then it isn't serious. If you do/say something *when emotionally roused*, it isn't serious. It's if you say/do that thing WHEN CALM that it's serious.

But here's a tip based on what I suspect is also exacerbating him. You're prodding his ego, 'approaching' him aggressively like you're another male and triggering his return aggression. So, 'blindly', he's reacting as he would to another male...and then too late remembering you're a woman. Is that pinging with you?

************

Ultimately, ignore this small, only momentary stuff and keep focussed on the actual substance over mere style. For example: he apologised three times (repetition proves sincerity even if the message doesn't manage to convey it convincingly); he's finally off his a*se in terms of trying to get a job so as to be half- or full provider; he did in the end turn the film off; you've been having great fun together recently....***and he made, not just A meal but a DELICIOUS one*** (RESULT!). Etcetera. Yup, I do think you're making Mr Ego worse by 'coming into the room' sounding like a bloke (dad) who's bit by bit challenging him to a fight/threatening to conquer and enslave him or make him look dense in comparison to you, whereupon he - without thinking (that comes later...reassuringly enough) - grabs for his man-to-man-fight tools and weapons. Trust me, you'd have bigger problems if your behaving like a woman was what provoked him (and were THAT the case, I'd say - dump, NOW, and run-run-run!)

You need to learn 'old-fashioned' feminine wiles (for a while) in order to master and play his ego (i.e. make it work FOR you rather than against you), like going quiet and sad-faced (perhaps even walking off with your head and shoulders slumping) when you're feeling hurt or deprived/denied, or crying if you genuinely feel like it. They can't bear that. Repeat - CAN'T BEAR IT. Aggression, particularly as a cover for all other emotions, is for the office ONLY (and that's the trouble with women now used to working in male dominated fields year after year, it primes them to point of habit into having to behave like/compete with the men). Or it is if you want your relationship to proceed more smoothly. Try it next time and see if there isn't a HUGE difference. I'm not suggesting you grab for the tears every single time (because that's deliberate, underhanded manipulation aka always hitting under the belt). What I'm saying is, if you genuinely feel like letting your bottom lip wobble THEN DO.

"and yeah the fights r not really helping the whole situation.."

They are, actually. It's the STYLE of fighting that's the problem, not the vital fights themselves. Get your little lace hankie out and floor him with it with one waft. You've got this giant 'weapon' (pacifier) at your disposal and are leaving it locked in a drawer because you forgot it existed.

*************

"however after we were in bed he said that he thought that i really wanted a BABY!..i was kinda shocked, he said he thought we were trying like "if it happens it happens..(my gaad, what a miscommunication..)..i mean i do have to say that we r not using protection..but im not really ready to get a kid, but i did say some time ago that i wouldnt abort if it would happen ( i had a "situation" when i was 14 and had to be operated on, the doc's told me its gonna be possible, but its gonna take a while to conceive one day-mom and stepmom had the same thing, so i wasnt worried because they had 3 kids each)"

Then he's right. Because if you truly 'didn't like ice-cream' you wouldn't eat it. EVER. You're sat there with a gob-ful of ice-cream, going, 'Ah 'EEEARLY HAAA' ITHE-CWEAM!' whilst he and I are sat here going, Yeah, right, luv, sure ya do. LOL

Put it this way: your inner animal clearly does want one but your outer human (THINKS) she doesn't. But anyway, you can't add a third member to your dynamic until you've perfected to-a-habit your twosome or else nipper will get to witness your 'settling in' bickering and [wait for it] take it all very seriously....which is how you replicate your own family household problems down and down the line. He's just doing his usual 'trying to rush things a bit', not least because, of course (yep, you were right), if you had his baby any time soon, he'd automatically become a permanent resident.

So you HALF want a baby. Well, then, he'd better recognise that habitual aggression/revenge trigger and learn to ignore or side-step it rather than getting his 'big hands' out, so that he can woo you the rest of the way, hadn't he. If you're trying to be more ladylike when it's the last thing you feel like being and he's trying meanwhile to be less clompy and ready for a fight then I fail to see how you can't both succeed at keeping all discussions quiet, civil, almost non-emotional and very grown-up (like two librarians amidst a packed venue). Have you ever TRIED having a fight whilst constantly only whispering? It's like trying to cry when chewing a mouthful of food - can't be done. PS: chewing gum...male invention (you do the maths).

Anyway, you can think (or think you think) what you like but if your inner she-chimp wants babies then, by hook or by crook, whether you like it and had it marked on your schedule or not, it's going to get you pregnant. Best get on the pill toute suite because *his* inner animal obviously intends to get you preggers, and his human's intentions align (which affects the sperm, better believe it). But that's NOT a solution, tell him, it'd be an X-fold exacerbator.

Nope, he can't cut corners, it's work-work-work for the perk-perk-perks.

*****************

"next morning(this morning) i didnt wanna leave the bed and cuddled with him a lot..at some point i left and when i was at work i wanted to show him a little attention so i "posted" a little msg on facebook saying publicly how in love i am with him..he LOVED it Grinning hahaha"..."now, in half an hour, we r meeting for lunch.."

Happy Ending. :-) And that's because he showed you his vulnerability (admitting the baby bit). And that's because you had a fight but both saw it through back to neutrality/harmony rather than swept it under the rug for it to only come back again another day, and then did a ladylike thing (gushed like a girlie in public as [wait for it] fed his ego as made it your friend).

PS: This was the thing he'll have most noticed, though: " i said "later" to the baby idea ". Later. Not 'No', not 'I don't even know if you and I are going to end up MARRIED yet!'. Later.

He pushed your button via something dramatic that you were BOUND to 'let loose' over ("Let's have a baby / A BABY?!?!...blah-blah-blah-blah-spill-spill-spill...") and heard the type of ultimate beep he needed to hear which, translated, meant, 'I'm not planning on making you go anywhere (you're safe)'. :-)

*****************

"-did MR.S have these long sad periods?or episodes?"

Giant YES!

"-did he open up when he was feeling "safe"?"

Yes. Still is. Same confessions, newly added, important details every time he tells them. Told me only a few months back about how he came "this close" to committing suicide, once. He'd told me before, but failed to stress how "this close" he'd actually come. Doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is that he managed not to go the whole hog or hadn't tried decades earlier.

How I dealt with these confidences was, not batting an eyelid, taking it all in my stride as perfectly normal (which, actually, it is) and giving him 'tit for tat'. And resisted the temptation to fling it back at him during an argument or told anyone else in 'real life'.

"what helped him feel better about all the stuff he went trough?"

The fact it all led directly, albeit convolutedly (because it's a twisty-turny route until you can look back on it from on-high once you reach higher ground from atop the Love Mountain), to He & Me. But he was the same as your fella, originally, trying to take me by force...and then realised that I'm a warrior as well, no push-over (plus was a HUGE commitmentphobe), capable of fighting physically very aggressively, mentally aggressively (in marathon proportions) *and* passive-aggressively all the way down to pure passively, like a pro, meaning, it was going to take an impressive carrot instead. (...and I mean that in both senses, gnaaaaarf! ;-)). But we're practically the same, he and I, with uncannily similar histories (save for the crap dad/acrimonious parents), if I'm honest.

******************

Anyway, enough about me. You're both getting there, any idiot can see that. And not as slowly as you think.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 17 2016 at 14:49
Member since: 27 January 2016
hello soulmate!

thank u for the response! i didnt really have time to answer and i had a long weekend :) and sometimes i dont want to think about all of that and i wanted a break with dealing(because it feels like a lot has to be changed) with it..

so lets dig in:

in the first 5-6 paragraphs u r basically telling me that he has to be trained to be the co-boss? or to basically be the "man" in the relationship? how can i help him with that? or lets say help MYSELF..it has been bothering me from time to time..

thats funny tho, i might have mentioned once or twice the last week (mentioned once, it came up again) that i feel like the roles r a bit reversed (in a humorous way)i said how i so often have to wait for him when we r getting ready and (didnt mention it like this fully:)how, when he gets paranoid (basically when there comes a situations involving NOT US but other couples he projects that situation and starts getting worried-for a short moment) i have to be the one to tell him that WE r ok and WE r not THEM and WE love eachother and "hahaha bby, r u worring about other ppls stuff again?thats not us!get out of your head!"

he is a delicate flower right now..or often?..but i do have to admit that once or twice it happens to me too in situations like that..

BUT:

i do have to say that i kinda relized/remembered(once again..) one or two things the last week too and that is that i got angry and disappointed that/when its not going (or didnt went in the past) like i thought it would and i guess from that i started pulling back, not taking in consideration how HARD it actually has to be for HIM being here and then also now having to cope with so much sh*t from his past..u know what kinda happened in my head?:

"oh, so he isnt who he said he was, he isnt that strong guy who managed his life so well(who will help me manage mine in a way too?) and who was also my best friend and savior. where is that attention? where is this bubble WE HAD? why is the rest of the world (vienna) so much more important then the women he moved here for?why is it that when we go out i have to get angry because he is looking around the whole time?and why do I(!) have to be the one to try and "start" the bubble/pull him in?why doesnt he step up instead of me?

and from all of that thinking a bit selfish/ not considerate because i was facing a new situation myself on top of my messy life (mom VERY sick/a lot of unsolved family problems that i saw as my job to solve AND a lot of anger because i was brought up not to say stuff/express feelings and when i did i was "dramatic" so i had to just shut up and deal with it quietly or not at all ="ANGER") i lost the focus on the person he really is/i knew and like i said pulled back..i was telling him that i love him but he always said he "needs more" and especially when he was in denmark some weeks ago, he told me he has to see it and feel it more..

but it was really hard from the start for me:

1. i wasnt used to expressing my feelings or was scared to do it

2. i was scared to even HAVE them ( u said it too " the one struggling the most with being in a full-on, serious relationship is YOU")

3. i wasnt getting what i expected and so i guess i started (like he said) punishing him subconsciously

4.it was hard for me being myself for a lot of reasons, one of them being the fact that we went so far down "that" road that he started loosing respect(i guess?or no, it wasnt respect, i didnt stand up for myself in the right way-or at all..) and started making a lot of jokes everytime i tried to show him "myself" (which is btw one of the things i wanted to mention to you)

so, all in all, he is a delicate flower and i didnt help all of this AT ALL for many many months.when he came back from denmark i had all of that in my head, but when i saw me having to be the one who has everything under control or lets say "the adult"(not really, but u know what i mean) in this relationship, i started getting angry instead of maybe having more compassion or atleast doing the lady-like thing and getting sad instead..

i am trying not to get angry and just to see what feeling it ACTUALLY is that im feeling and WHAT it is that i am upset about and then to see (gut feeling comes in) if its a situation where i have to have compassion or if i have to express maybe sadness or a need?

******************rest is following a bit later :) ************************

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 18 2016 at 16:45
Member since: 27 January 2016
so 2nd part (sorry about the delay):

"I repeat, you're safe, he's not, not really. And he knows it. Hence the way he's acting. "

-well yeah, thats true, but im starting to feel not safe again...im starting to absorb his feelings more more often..ive talked with my therapist about it..and the thing is he is not really saying it that often in the moment anymore..some arguements or lets say "talks" and situations we had made him distance a bit and me ofc too..he doesnt really feel understood and for me its hard being with someone who is "gone" all the time AGAIN..

i have to say, like i did "up there", i just imagined us in a way that we cant satisfy right now because he hasnt really build a llife here yet..and thats whats happenening with me..i know what u r going to say now(not with the same words ofc):

"stop your selfish behavior. you have to cut him some slack."...i do have to adjust right now..but now that he is losing A LOT of motivation its super super hard for me..i mean read the thing "below"..its insane from where my h*rnyness came from..i cant comprehend it right now:

you know what we did yesterday?:

i said we should "play a game", because i felt how restless hes becoming and how "fake"(fake=gestures not really sensere). we were in bed and i told him to close his eyes and then just breath for some seconds, just relax..and then i told him to actually feel his weight on the bed...it is really important for us (for really both of us) to start feeling ourselves again and not "to be in the other persons head"..thats whats causing A LOT 1.misunderstandings(!!!!) 2. bad feelings/uncomfort..etc..u know what it is..

so yeah, it was nice doing that with him and then 2 hours later i did the same thing again and when i did hm well how should i say it but somehow i got really really (ALL OF A SUDDEN)h*rny..can u explain that?..didnt really last long and i was while "ahem" starting to overthing and was somehow(like he is so often) "gone" but i have to say it was very nice feeling the h*rnyness..

*************************************************

"Maybe you should explain to him - I'm your huge bag of A1 cocaine to which you're heavily addicted but which is such high grade in purity it enhances your life and health rather than the opposite...and yesterday you basically sat down violently on me and risked splitting the bag and losing its contents. Is that intelligent? You should be looking after me like the precious source of ecstasy I am, thereby proving you're not out to make yourself unhappy. If *I'm* upset or p*ssed-off then *you're* upset or p*ssed-off because now we share even emotional states, so - OWN GOAL, MATEY (duh?), you may as well just punch your own thigh and be done with it. Bit disappointing...have always gone around telling people how clever you are. Was I wrong to? ("No") Then from now on, please prove it or leave this Lambourghini be and go find yourself a Ford Fiesta."

-the thing with the Lambourghini and the Ford Fiesta i said and u know how that went?:

"how can u even joke about that? u know that this is on my mind the whole time, that im scared of losing u"

i said:

"honey, isnt this what its about? to take care of your precious car so it doesnt break?"-ish

well yeah, like he said, he is soooo vulnerable that i couldnt even say that he should be taking better care of me, it PRESSURES him so much..i guess we have to take in consideration the stuff i said in my previous "post" yesterday..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 18 2016 at 17:02
Member since: 27 January 2016
"However, there's an underlying day-saver in play, despite over-lookable, and that's this: boredom. Sooner or later you get plain bored of bickering and cease fearing that giving in today over X, Y or Z means giving in forever when you stop to remember that what matters changes as WE grow and change ("I thought you HATED carrots?!"). If you don't eventually start to grow bored of it, you're wrong for each other full-stop and/or are outright drama queens. You're not wrong for each other because not only are the arguments becoming milder and shorter-lived but they're also about purely petty stuff (mere excuses) so this is just about 'for the Nth time, get your elbow out of my ribs, you fat basstud!', a bit like how cats pound the cushion with their claws before settling down to nap"

-that sounds good to me, and it is true..we would avoid SO MUCH if we would also just say more stuff:

how i actually noticed from where the statement "im doing so much for u":

we were ready for dinner and i went to get the last stuff and drinks.so, im in the kitchen i take the juice and tell him that im going to drink it with some water (mix it) and i ask him if he wants some. he says no and that we have soda and i say that i saw the soda and that its not cold enough.period. i went to the table and had my drink and wasnt thinking about his drink because he actually said no to the juice and DIDNT SAY he WANTED the soda he JUST SAID that we have some.

so after some moments he asked me where his drink was.nice story, isnt it? i think it happens A LOT and it causes sh*t.and i know u r gonna say that its normal, that just happen, but we r expecting A LOT but we r not expressing it properly and then we get mad at eachother for actually no REAL reason...

*****************************************************

"But here's a tip based on what I suspect is also exacerbating him. You're prodding his ego, 'approaching' him aggressively like you're another male and triggering his return aggression. So, 'blindly', he's reacting as he would to another male...and then too late remembering you're a woman. Is that pinging with you?"

-YES... :( im trying not to provoce it and to react like a lady, im really trying to let the anger be..

i know, i saw, i realised, has a lot to do with my gut feeling and actually noticing what kinda situation it is and HOW to react..atm im bad at it, it cant really trust my gut because i have his and mine and from time to time other ppls feelings in me and yeah i have to practise not to absorb that and the exact same thing goes for him..frustrating a bit right now to be honest..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 19 2016 at 14:46
Member since: 27 January 2016
"The fact it all led directly, albeit convolutedly (because it's a twisty-turny route until you can look back on it from on-high once you reach higher ground from atop the Love Mountain), to He & Me. But he was the same as your fella, originally, trying to take me by force...and then realised that I'm a warrior as well, no push-over (plus was a HUGE commitmentphobe), capable of fighting physically very aggressively, mentally aggressively (in marathon proportions) *and* passive-aggressively all the way down to pure passively, like a pro, meaning, it was going to take an impressive carrot instead. (...and I mean that in both senses, gnaaaaarf! [Winking] ). But we're practically the same, he and I, with uncannily similar histories (save for the crap dad/acrimonious parents), if I'm honest. "

-what im getting from what u said is that he did realise at some point how it led to u two..for my dear boyfriend its just bagage right now, and he isnt realising that it actually did him "a favour" (everything that happened to/with him)which i understand, he isnt "there" yet..i feel like he really needs counceling..like badly. all the discussions and/or talks we had that, at the end, led to better understanding for me in a way, let to him distancing and losing the motivation. he is saying tho (after we made a plan for the next few days) that he is going to apply for jobs (this time seriously (and he did)..

we will see how it goes when we come back from denmark. we r leaving saturday morning and we r both very excited to experience new stuff..i hope he stops being so insecure and "being somewhere else" (meaning worring so much) while we r there..he should be in a better mood just because he is going to be able to speak his language..im guessing that will give him some confidence back..

he is pretty sad"-ish" at the moment..taking everything waay to serious and "bad"..hope the vacation helps a bit..

btw. just heard he applied for another job again today!yeey!

*****************************************

"""-did MR.S have these long sad periods?or episodes?"

Giant YES! "

-but he was able to get out of it on his own, wasnt he? or how did that happen? because as i told u, my bf is very unmotivated atm..and sad too from time to time the reason being that he is seeing everything pretty negativly again..getting overwhelmed from the "stress and pressure"..and i bet u helped MR.S alot with moments like that..and it seems (from what i already mentioned "up there") that i might been causing the pressure and not helping enough (or lets say not kicking his ass enough) regarding his settling..

but i told what it is, look at the reason for me getting h*rny, look what makes me attracted to him..and him being calm doesnt happen that often..

******************************************

"How I dealt with these confidences was, not batting an eyelid, taking it all in my stride as perfectly normal (which, actually, it is) and giving him 'tit for tat'. And resisted the temptation to fling it back at him during an argument or told anyone else in 'real life'."

-im trying.. but sometimes my paranoia or insecurity reacts to what he tells me (my reaction and what i feel is, i guess,similar to what he is sometimes experiencing with other ppls situations, also mentioned that "up there") and im trying not to show it, but i guess u can feel it too when u know someone...

im really trying to keep in mind "que sera, sera..".. he should MOST CERTAINLY too..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 19 2016 at 15:53
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Sorry for the massive delay - kid's got important exams this month...etc., etc.)

1. Gender isn't important when it comes to being equal partners, my point was just to be careful you're not approaching and dealing with him like would a man (or woman in a business office environment) whenever you're p*ssed off about something - aggressively or too challengingly - as triggers his primitive, combative, urges as turns off rational thinking and lets the gorilla out.

Try, 'I need your help to stop feeling X, please, baby [or whatever you call him]?'.

2. What exactly is he drawing comparisons with other couples about as then makes him feel you two are deficient? And are these couples your situational mirror image? If not, it's not possible to draw a comparison and he may as well compare you both to their Royal Highnesses Kate and Wills.

3. "why is it that when we go out i have to get angry because he is looking around the whole time?". Looking around at what?

4. "why do I(!) have to be the one to try and "start" the bubble/pull him in?why doesnt he step up instead of me?". Because you're in your element and he's not. So you have to start him off *for the time being* until he takes those reins. No-one can be their natural self if they're out of sorts, in a place they're used to being themselves in. Culture and environment have a huge effect; people always under-estimate how much. He'll 'step up' all the way once he has a firmer base step (hence my nagging about the importance of him putting down roots, starting with getting a job so that he can become more attached to the place and to you...and 're-attach' to his 'new' persona.)

5. Yes, you're a pan of milk that isn't coming to a boil yet. That's his fault and then, behind him, the situation's fault. But until he's got a regular job, he's not helping matters and everything else is futile. PS: no, it *was* loss of respect. Because you expected him to not PUT you into situations where you had to stick up for yourself/didn't expect to have to stick up for yourself against *him*. So he was failing in his role as Protector....albeit, so were you at that point. PPS: not 'the adult', the HOST.

6. If you're getting bursts of randiness then things can't be as bad as you seem to think because - ACTIONS! - sense of safety and horniness in that context go hand-in-hand....no-one can feel randy when they genuinely, deep-down feel unsafe and anxious.

You're trying to rationalise and go into detail too much. All you have to keep asking yourself is, Is he/this relationship, overall, making me happy? If not as optimally happy as I'd like/expect, is there scope? Is there enough of it? And is it actual, useable potential or do I see too many other forms of evidence to indicate he does *not* want to work to put down roots and instead wants a set-up wherein everything gets handed to him forever on a plate?

(What I don't understand, Nana, is why, if you have a therapist already, you need me/this forum on top? RSvP?)

This guy might be a chocolate teapot, romantic relationship-wise, just 'waiting' to get exposed as such by a lengthier passage of time featuring more, meaningful events. The point is, you're not yet in a situation in which to judge either way....YET. Which is why you both need to do less thinking and talking and more taking action - him getting a job or meantime making himself fiscally useful, even in whatever roundabout ways, which can include making your life easier so that you can do your bacon-earning job to your optimum capability and thereby be considered pay-rise and promotion worthy ....because for all you know, he might make an excellent house-husband to your excellent earner - in which case, you *could* sprog a lot sooner (following legally getting married, I mean). You and he might be one of the exceptions to the role-reversals (- that one aspect) rule for all you know; it might suit you both down to the ground. But he has to get a job *first* - to prove his work ethic generally, considering that relationships are hard, hard work, too, not just day jobs. Or he has to do the house-husband thing *now* and do it *properly every working day* ....TREAT IT like a job!

7. When I said 'maybe you should explain to him', I did mean next time, not over this horror-film incident (which I thought was sorted due to his having apologised and done something to make up for it). Never mind - spilt milk.

It obviously *is* on his mind constantly - *hence* he's not relaxed enough to be getting on with the things he needs to be getting on with. That or, he's just using worry about losing you as his female-ear-friendly excuse for not getting on with things? Again, we can't know until tenure proves him right or forces him to hold up his hands on that score. I mean, he can't KEEP dithering about getting work, can he? There will come a time when it's been one year...two years, maybe. You're going to to conclude, 'you can't *still* be too constantly worried, insecure, agitated and lacking confidence in me/our relationship thus life generally to get your ducks in a row, even now - that doesn't wash any more, not this far along'.

What did he SAY to your statement, '"honey, isnt this what its about? to take care of your precious car so it doesnt break?"-ish'?

I mean, if fear of losing this relationship is what's hampering his getting a job/treating being the stay-at-home as a job, and his not getting a job as the logical starting point for growing roots is hampering your ability to invest yourself, and its your inability to invest yourself that's ending up feeding his fear of losing you, then that's a vicious circle. So who has the scissors with which to break it? Answer: HE DOES. All you have to do is be a good hostess and to show *him* your relationship partner potential. That's potential, not supplying all the goods as if you're already there. If he's indicating he wants and expects the latter now-now-NOW then he's either very lazy and over-entitled or very unrealistic and unfair (or both). Is he?

He made you a delicious meal and made a balcony bench. Couldn't he be doing those sorts of helpful things *every* day? Or, I repeat: is he, now?

8. ...Or is he in any way, shape or form trying to give you the impression that he can't relax and gets his ducks in a row, including doing his bit within the home, until you pre-pay him those reassuring perks?

Me, I'm leery about judging him this early on, considering he's not been with you for as long as a year yet (which is the only 'wearing-in' period that could in any way be deemed fair in this major change of whole environment and situation). So - what do you think? Hand on heart, Nana. Do you think he will eventually get even a part-time job/start knuckling down daily in the home, and that once he gets it will treat it responsibly so as to be capable of *showing* he's as much a hard worker and non-quitter as you (no matter whether he stays as a working male or becomes permanent house-husband), meaning, emotionally as well as practically, meaning, you're ultimately well matched/birds of the same feather?

Yes, you need to communicate more as well as more honestly (yet tactfully), the pair of you. Enough skirting around - just lay all your cards on the table about what you both want and expect, now and in years to come, and accept no excuses (IF that's what you can tell by now they are) regarding why either of you isn't doing the thing(s) to attain them. Ask him, does he WANT a job or DOES he like the idea of being the stay-at-home partner in charge of the eventual kids (and is THAT one of the reasons why he brought up the topic)? And if that IS what he wants - is he sure it's not just striking as the easier option compared AT THIS EARLY, ACCLIMATISATION STAGE to the alternative(s)? The LAST thing you need is to get used to, like clockwork, him being 'housewife' only for him to suddenly quit on you and take a full-time job or, god forbid, do that when you've already got a baby needing full-time home care.

Sort out where each of you envisages you both being headed in the longer term. If your EXPECTATIONS/GOALS match then you're already 'there', with the rest being mere detail that will automatically and naturally start to fall into place.

**********

9. " im in the kitchen i take the juice and tell him that im going to drink it with some water (mix it) and i ask him if he wants some. he says no and that we have soda and i say that i saw the soda and that its not cold enough.period. i went to the table and had my drink and wasnt thinking about his drink because he actually said no to the juice and DIDNT SAY he WANTED the soda he JUST SAID that we have some."

Eh? He said, I don't want juice but we have soda, and you couldn't work out from this that he wanted soda so left yourself looking like you were concerned only with your own welfare at that point? And according to you, that sort of thing happen a lot, meaning, you're always that literal- and detail-minded? (PS: It's NOT 'no real reason'. Feeling like the person who's supposed to consider your needs as you spend your time considering them and theirs, isn't 'not real', it's quite disheartening if interpreted negatively like that. BUT!... he DID question you and thereby give you a chance to explain, rather than jump to the negative conclusion, clam up and bottle up only to start 'spilling and spurting' his diminished sense of self in your eyes later on or the next day. So that's good, isn't it?)

What exactly did you say when he asked where his was? And after you'd realised, did you go back to the kitchen get him a drink?

10. It's not about letting the anger be. It's about WAITING to see WHETHER anger is required in the first place or not. Questions, question, clarification, clarification = right conclusion, right remedial (*and* later pre-emptive) response. *GETTING* angry when it later turns out was unnecessary is the crux problem-maker. ONCE you've established there's cause and right to be angry, THEN is when you try to stay calm as you communicate it in a ladylike, adult, diplomatic way (this is a society after all). That way, you don't get even MORE angry to where self-control is impossible. Meanwhile, their diffusing response(s) do their thing to dilute or dissolve the original annoyance/anger.

Shooting first and then asking questions is what it's called. Ask questions first, THEN 'shoot' (with a lace hanky, the old-fashioned, nowadays forgotten bomb to beat all other missiles).

I just think you're not used to being vulnerable like this because you haven't been loved/this close or allowed yourself to be loved/this close like this, and are creating or laying blame on obstacles in order to stay slowed down, the pair of you. And that's because you 'got married' FAR too early, before you BOTH had your ducks in a row - his practical first as helps the emotional, yours emotional first as helps the practical. I know it wasn't your fault, either of you, just the geography and the fact that staying long-distance is too hard on anyone (if the strength of feeling is immense). But that's what's on your joint reality menu - fact - as has to be found ways to deal with or compensate for.

He needs a job. He needs A JOB. He NEEDS....a job. HE NEEDS AN EFFING JOOOOOB! You're hardly going to dare chuck him out over anything trivial if he's in employment, are you, because that would be you inadvertently letting his boss down (and same for him if he found himself in a situation that normally would make him flounce off back 'home'). At least then you could say to yourself, he's NOT an intrinsic prat, he just behaves pratty under certain circumstances like anyone - because, look at his overriding actions and nuff said!

He needs a job (or set weekly list of chores that are 'his'). So what's the latest on that score?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 19 2016 at 16:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
PS: Why don't you ask your therapist if he can come with you from now on? After all, he is CENTRAL to everything in your world now, (e.g. your shoulder re your mum), is he not?

PPS: Sorry - only just read your latest about his having applied for another job. How many applications in what length of time is that now? And what are these vacancies for, specifically?

PPPS: Let me simplify my above: he needs to sort his practical; you need to sort your emotional. Because his lack of practical is affecting your emotional and because he's supposed to be the practical caretaker and you the emotional caretaker.

PPPPS: "-but he was able to get out of it on his own, wasnt he?"

Hah, I wish! He THOUGHT he was. But he wasn't. Hence I rang and arranged the interview, gave him a 'leg-up' in other words. He needed something to at that early point call his own, basically. Something with hooks/an anchor, since by his reckoning he couldn't consider me/our relationship as an anchor yet. In actual fact, your guy is showing FAR more confidence in that regard than my fella was. Do I take it from that, that your guy speaks your country's lingo pretty well? And do you 'know anyone' who could help him get part- (or full-) time work?

Put it this way: whether you realise it or not, the one out of the two of you who most desperately needs him to get a job is *you*. The longer he is unemployed (outside the home or in it), the more you're going to lose respect for him, REGARDLESS that you feel overjoyed and express it with suddenly feeling like having sex with him during a situation in which you see him happily take 'instructions' from (cooperate with) you (ironically enough, on how to instantly relax). *Any* male in *any* situation or circumstance feels out of sorts if he doesn't have regular work/make money...which you then hoover up.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 20 2016 at 08:30
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hey soulmate!

PS1: i already talked months ago about him maybe joining, but ultimatly its about me (regardless of him playing a huge role) and ive been having my sessions there and sorting my issues and fears that ive been having out with her (councelor) for over 3.5 years. its my safe place, its where i dont feel the pressure of pleasing someone and it wouldnt lead to anything good having to share my safe place with him (ive asked my coucelor for advise on that one) but the thing is, its a place with a lot of therapists and he already has one (remember me telling u that he started some moths ago and then stopped because he was MEGA depressed and didnt find the motivation to go..well ive been telling him to call her and he said he is already waiting for her call. besides that i also called admin there and asked for couples counseling.waiting lists r long, but we r on it.

PPS2: he did 5-6 applications since he came here. the first ones "because of the job center" (in my opinion) and as i told u, him and me agreed on "serious" applications too, so he spend 2-2,5 h yesterday rewriting his resume and CV and send 3 out in the last week (one yesterday) (BECAUSE IT WAS ON THE LIST WE AGREED ON HIM DOING, btw, because u said he needs chores and so on..i figured , so we did a list and he did a lot from it already.

PPPS3: well, that sounds very true.im trying with therapy to sort out my emotional, and ive been doing ok, like really. we need him to start with the practical too.so YES, JOB JOB JOB JOB!!!! but like i said, when we come back from denmark, in 2 weeks.oh btw since ive mentioned therapy again, im on the side because its a lot of practical stuff im talking with u about. when im there (having a session) im talking about my emotions, how stuff is really (and in details) affecting me, my childhood and also about him. but since i hoover up so much from his emotions, i have to have a place where its about my emotions and only me, so i can improve myself because that has to happen and that is also going to improve US ofc, so im here to get your input because 1. looking at it superficially, u have been in the "same situations": long distance, partner moving to your country, partner having a past, u actually being "soulmates" (im just gonna be so free and say that) 2. u actually give me some ideas WHATs going on with HIM , when IM STUCK and im having a pitty party 3. its nice having yet another input. so, thank u for all of that soulmate "btw" haha :) but yeah, in therapy its not about "what could be happening with him" more like "how is this and that affecting me(us to a certain degree ofc too)"

PPPPS: its not "pretty well", he understands A LOT, the talking and grammer needs a lot of training ("thats where socialising would help too, mr!!!" ) i know some people, im trying to get in touch and motivate him..its my fault in some way atm..we have one or two opportunities, but ive been lazy and ive been waiting for him to say "hey, how about we call this one friend of yours!"..i naivly waited for him to "do" something and then got disappointed when he didnt, we both, u and i, know that kinda behavior from me, im feeling stupid, so, no need to say that i just shouldve arranged the meeting sooner..gonna call the friend when we r back, i promise..or today, but we r stressed today (packing and so on..). and while we r at "packing", the reason we r having the vacation is because ive mentioned (when he was in denmark for the one month) randomly, that it would be nice for me to see it again, and somehow we ended up doing vacation there and now its vacation time, so he planned (on his own) this road trip. rented a car, looked up camping sides and so on..

"Put it this way: whether you realise it or not, the one out of the two of you who most desperately needs him to get a job is *you*. The longer he is unemployed (outside the home or in it), the more you're going to lose respect for him, REGARDLESS that you feel overjoyed and express it with suddenly feeling like having sex with him during a situation in which you see him happily take 'instructions' from (cooperate with) you (ironically enough, on how to instantly relax). *Any* male in *any* situation or circumstance feels out of sorts if he doesn't have regular work/make money...which you then hoover up."

-gonna call the friend.

-why is it ironic?im not quite getting it and to be honest, i havent even realised that i was happy and horny because he was "for once" doing what i told him/or wanted him to be..ouch! makes me feel sh*tty..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 20 2016 at 09:38
Member since: 27 January 2016
so we r back at "im losin respect"..hm..ok

did that happen to u too btw? did u start losing respect? and if so (which im doubting a bit right now), how did u "perceive" him during the time he was unemployed?..i know u had a lot of understanding, but there had to be a time where u felt a bit helpless too(ok maybe not helpless, since u told me "u r never helpless") but u did say that u let him "stay home" a bit too long, i mean that must have had an affect on u too..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 20 2016 at 13:56
Member since: 27 January 2016
using your numeration, btw:

"2. What exactly is he drawing comparisons with other couples about as then makes him feel you two are deficient? And are these couples your situational mirror image? If not, it's not possible to draw a comparison and he may as well compare you both to their Royal Highnesses Kate and Wills."

-sometimes he absorbs feelings other ppl have( i can see it on him how his mood changes)its the thing u said to me "hoover up"..im going to give u an example:

my sister and her ex broke up, long story short, he moved away(out of the country) and recently wanted to come to visit the dog they bougth together because he missed it (and my sister, he is not over it, clearly *whaaaaatever*) however, he met the dog at my moms and we(bf and i) were there too coincidentally. we talked to him and we felt how unconfotable the "ex" was..clearly, it was a bit uncofortable, and everyone felt it,so till here it was normal, but at some point my boyfriend started drifting away and like i said, i could see how he was taking this break up and started worring about us..i mean, yeah, maybe its normal and maybe its normal for people who r going through rough times in the relationship and MAYBE it was only for a second because he hoovered his feelings up, but i saw it a lot and i have to admit that a lot of the times and said something about it, meaning: "honey, r u worring now?" (in a silly way) and maybe it was my bad taking situations like that and even mentioning them, maybe he wouldve forgotten them all together on his own..but yeah..thats what i ment.

********************************************

"3. "why is it that when we go out i have to get angry because he is looking around the whole time?". Looking around at what? "

+

"4."

-he is somewhere else, looking at people, at the place and in his head..and honestly, i know its new for him and i thought he might wanna be more present(and he wants..)..great..i feel bad now..i just thought it would get a bit better..and it actually did..and i feel worse..(sorry for the monologue)..and all the quetions i mentioned, were what was happening in my head before, i was trying to explain to u what was happening months ago and when i felt that he was insecure and scared(after he came back from denmark again).

soulmate, i am aware that they r selfish(the questions)..its just for better understanding(for u) what happens when i start the pitty party, to show u that i still have problems keeping in mind that he hasnt started his life fully yet(so to say)

-and yeah u r right..

********************************************

"You're trying to rationalise and go into detail too much. All you have to keep asking yourself is, Is he/this relationship, overall, making me happy? If not as optimally happy as I'd like/expect, is there scope? Is there enough of it? And is it actual, useable potential or do I see too many other forms of evidence to indicate he does *not* want to work to put down roots and instead wants a set-up wherein everything gets handed to him forever on a plate?"

-nice one..all in all, yes, he is able to do it, he wants to do it, we r just dumb idiots and we forget and get lazy and then start blaming the other person blablabla ("details")..he is, its hard keeping in mind that it needs time and A JOB (im just gonna start typing it in big letters :P ) (maybe its gonna help)

ps.sry about me being so demanding sometimes..

********************************************

"6."

-got it..

"7."

-it was another situation

********************************************

"So - what do you think? Hand on heart, Nana. Do you think he will eventually get even a part-time job/start knuckling down daily in the home, and that once he gets it will treat it responsibly so as to be capable of *showing* he's as much a hard worker and non-quitter as you (no matter whether he stays as a working male or becomes permanent house-husband), meaning, emotionally as well as practically, meaning, you're ultimately well matched/birds of the same feather? "

-yes!hand on heart..i believe so, i think im sucking the motivation out of him (a little bit?)..or not motivating him the right way, but bickering about how, like i already mentioned, he isnt "around" a lot mentally.. :(

********************************************

"What exactly did you say when he asked where his was? And after you'd realised, did you go back to the kitchen get him a drink? "

- im not sure anymore, i think i didnt.. :(

********************************************

" But that's what's on your joint reality menu - fact - as has to be found ways to deal with or compensate for. "

-...

-i think he needs a JOB? dont u? hahaha sorry, its getting so ridiculous..the situation that is..

********************************************

and hey soulmate, thx for being "there"..i appreciate it immensively..good luck with the exams and studing :P

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 20 2016 at 16:51
Member since: 19 August 2014
No, I was talking future tense. You're only in *danger* of losing respect, and that's only *if* he ends up prevaricating on the job front to where he's clocked up a year or more and still has no job to call his own.

Yes, I did lose a bit. But then I started out with such a huge truckload for him that I could afford to. Plus I don't do quitting unless and until I see the fat lady sing *and* the relationship is one I chose/accepted entering when not firing on all judgemental cylinders. That was my ex-marriage, I admit I wasn't appreciating at the time that I'd only tested him as a *friend*, not a boyfriend and husband-to-be (they are two *very* different relationships and dynamics, make no mistake (, anyone)). This time I put Mr S through so many hoops - non-detectable and detectable both (the latter being deliberate distractors) - that I'm surprised he stuck around. In fact, once he'd looked back and realised, he commented that he'd enjoyed the challenge immensely despite no-one had ever before made him have to work so hard to 'crack and de-shell a nut' (sounds about right, LOL)).

You don't "NEED" couples counselling as far as I can see, because you do talk before or following a clash (even during), either to dodge one or remedy a situation/misunderstanding, and you do come away understanding each other better from either measure...you're not, the pair of you, going round and round in circles, having the same ol' arguments about important fundaments to do with giving-receiving quotients on the heart or enthusiasm front. And the ones under a running theme that you do keep having are ultimately due to anywhere between hard to control or uncontrollable but normal circumstances (I'm talking about things like his drastic new environment and your mum's health) as yet unchanged or unchangeable but which wreak an effect on you both in the meantime. And nor is anyone trying to actually master-servant the other, save for when it comes to small stuff (*like*, campaigning to allow the watching of horror-films, whose job is this/that chore, can you have more Me Time without his taking it negatively-personally, can he have a lads' night out without involving or p*ssing-off you, are we a cautious, careful, preventative team (avoid trouble) or gung-ho, curative one (try it and clear up any mess afterwards)...normal, couples settling-in stuff which just helps you get to know one another better in crash-course fashion).

You just have normal childhood and dating baggage like everyone else these days, which truthfully neither of you have had to really face up to and sift through before today...now that you've become two squished-up peas in a pod with 'warts', hip-bones and 'elbows' suddenly rubbing and digging. (Once you're through that, that's when the guy you first dated will re-emerge...and same for you).

You're both coping. I was just thinking in terms of halved cost and doubled practicality, considering even your pasts are similar. Not *once* have either of you said it's over, you can't take it. Well, you did recently, but he and I both knew it was just tension-based knee-jerking talking and, anyway, you too quickly thereafter disproved it with your actions. Put it this way, no-one who's just truly ended it in frustration and disgust would offer to help carry the bloke's clobber to the station, other than an *actual* saint, of course. And bar that one semi-time, neither of you are yelling, 'that's it, it's over!', every month and flouncing off for days or weeks, like too many other couples in your situation at this dating stage might too easily do. (You need to have a look around at the current and archived threads, Nana, to appreciate how WELL you're doing, "actually", considering.)

No... Neither of your 'suitcases' contain things that prevent or seriously impede functionality in any sector of your lives as individuals or together as a team unit (and only that, really, is when counselling is genuinely needed per se). I only suggested it for 'kill two birds with one stone reason' and because it would BENEFIT (whom wouldn't it?), help speed up getting to know and understand one another if you're there to witness each other's innermost spillages under safe and controlled conditions, that's all.

Proof: you together wrote a To Do list and right on schedule he started tackling the uppermost items. Well, those aren't the actions of a shirker. (And you'd be surprised just how many excuses and delay tactics they can manage think up when they are, short of the 'the dog ate my homework' type.) I DO think he's taking his time a bit and being a bit on the choosy side, though (no doubt because of the welfare safety-net of $400pcm). Four applications in one hit isn't enough in a recession. But he *is* doing it, and (CV updating) enabling himself to do a lot more, that's the main thing and at least counts as a good start when still in the under-a-year stage. Plus he's called and left a message for his counsellor. Plus he's single-handedly planned and organised the Denmark trip.

Yeah, I get the 'waiting for him to be proactive and take the initiative' feeling as aligns with their masterful-ness when on their own ground. But you have to remember he's still an alien guest to your flat, country and culture, and you wouldn't expect a guest to your home to start helping themselves to your car whilst leaving notes in the morning that say, 'Gone to X city - see you in a day or two!', would you (which would be the equivalent). Basically your knight in shining armour had to leave his horse and suit at the airport Departures security check point so now looks and sounds more like your average pedestrian until such time as those things get sent on later or he fashions new ones. I remember feeling for a while like Mr S had somehow "shrunk" smaller, as well; it's just a temporary thing, it'll pass. It's like a haircut at this point: he'll grow back, LOL. I expect he already has, more than just a little, from having taken manly charge of the trip, yes? So there we go, then - proof of the pudding: when he IS in his element doing something he IS au-fait with, he's fine and perfectly capable (phew/tick!).

Plus, it says a lot, your first vacation since his moving over and in. It says, This is home and (now) this is merely a holiday destination, and we are a couple.

Nah, as an item you don't "need" counselling, you just know how handy it can be, like when you have turbo injection in your car: makes hoofing-it and overtaking safer, easier thus more enjoyable. But without, you'd still be able to get from A to B, regardless. So in your cases it's obviously just a labour-saving and time-cutting device....a semi-luxury. (Fairenoughski. I just like to check...you'd be surprised how many people 'cheat' on their therapists, either because they can't commit to any one person full-stop or because they secretly like the confusion of two possibly quite distinctly separate avenues of approach clashing and, obvious, inevitable outcome-wise, creating a sneaky procrastinator's dream scenario.)

By the way, thought I should point out: I've noticed you've calmed down in the DefCon stakes, not least by the fact that your posts are becoming far more articulate. Have you had a chance, yet, to re-read this entire thread? You should, it'd be very eye-opening for you.

***************

"-why is it ironic?im not quite getting it and to be honest, i havent even realised that i was happy and horny because he was "for once" doing what i told him/or wanted him to be..ouch! makes me feel sh*tty.."

Don't be daft. Of COURSE he should be capable of taking instructions as much as he's used to giving them. You're equal partners, aren't you? Oh, wait, I get it...You've been waiting for him to take the initiative there, as well, as in, 'Tell me what to do, Nana' or just doing it and then informing you afterwards. Nah, it's too early for that. But he will. (PS: the irony was you need to be relaxed with someone to take instructions over experiencing/trying something you'd never tried before, when the instructions themselves were about [wait for it] how to yield control and relax. It just struck me as quite funny, along the same lines as that old hospital joke that goes, "Wake up, Mr Jones, it's time for your sleeping pill".)

Example re initiative-taking like an inhabitant as opposed to a guest: Came downstairs yesterday morning to find Mr S had got up super-early and started removing the conservatory sash windows in order to patch and re-paint or, where necessary, actually re-make the frames, and fix/clean the inner operating/sliding and locking mechanisms, etc. The wooden inner and a few outer frames had become varying degrees of rotten and/or flakey-paint-ed due to the sun and rain constantly beating down on them, year-in-year-out, making them difficult to open and close (we have a south-westerly rear aspect, conservatory a proper brick and glass one, not your plastic-smelling uPVC rubbish).

I'd got a conservatory company to visit and quote a few weeks back...a whopping £15k(!!!!) the chap said (1k per window and glazed roof unit..they're quite big) and only came down to £13k after I, without having missed a beat, had pushily replied, 'Thirteen, you say?'.../ 'No, fifteen' / 'Yes, thirteen...that's what I said!' / 'Oh..right - 13 then'. But he wouldn't come down further, and £13k is still £13k. So you can imagine how I was feeling, what with having been trying to keep sequestered a healthy sum for our pending migration to Espana and other more obvious and pressing, value-enhancing house repairs still to do in the run-up, can't you.

'I could probably do that, save us that ridiculous cost', had said Mr S the prior night in bed... 'I'll take one out, have a look, see how salvageable they all are' (he's never repaired a genuine conservatory before, nor has all the proper carpentry tools, meaning, having to improvise with the tools he does have). Apparently, that was the same as saying, I'll start tomorrow (!). So I come downstairs, wondering why all the drilling, hammering and sawing noises, only to see its entire front-fascia windows and casements missing, giant sheets of plastic in their place. (And you talk about being forced to watch a horror film? LOL. I'm sure I must have looked like the individual in Edvard Munch's "The Scream".) I need more notice over something that affecting, time to get my head around it, particularly as I thought it was a suck-it-and-see situation (and you don't mess around with expensive but old, wooden sash windows if you're not an expert, because if anything goes wrong, like, you can't get them back into place afterwards or anything so much as chips, never mind breaks, you're talking 'Arm & Leg city', cost-wise, from having to emergency-call-out the professionals.)

'Thirteen', my arse. 'I could "probably" do that' my arse. Me wasting time and precious energy worrying, my arse. He's already on his third casement (I'm snack provider and 'assistant'), those re-crafted/patched and repainted already looking like new and sliding easily and smoothly again ("Look, mum, only one hand!"). I doubt even the experts could tell a non-expert did it. I'm so impressed and proud I could shag his face off right now!...and son's just said, "He needs to have more confidence in himself so that he says 'I *can* do that, not *maybe* can'" (yep - a running theme if ever there was one).

And - total cost to us? NIL (because he's using unwanted, leftover timber 'donated' by clients that he thought to bring home and store in the garage, plus same for White exterior paint). *Nil* plus a lot of sweat - his from exertion, mine from worry/paranoia (English handymen or sole contractors on the whole are SH*T, Nana... I should know, I used enough of them before meeting Mr S and I *despaired*, I really did!). That means in less than a week, whilst waiting to start an 'outside' job next week - aside from the thousands cash lately, he's 'made' us another £13k *and (pending sales or rental value) counting*. (Am now picturing a villa pool featuring a lazy river and wave machine, LOL.)

But my point is, would he have dared do that, sort-of help himself, when still at Hans's stage? No way in Hell. He'd have waited around for instructions and encouragement/urging like your fella. Because that far back, prior to his having started to be an equal income contributor, it was my house, not our house, and a still-guest doesn't help themselves to what are still your rights and possessions. What they DO tend to meantime do, though, in order to satisfy their human need for 'power' and 'control', self-pride, territorialism and sense of possession, is exert control through the small stuff and whatever else is 'up for grabs', like, getting to watch what they want to watch on the telly without you making too much fuss (as in, 'I'll give you that because, to be fair, I've got way more than you as it is').

It's a giant thing, a man moving his entire world location as he knows it to be with you, which speaks giant volumes about his giant strength of feelings and not just long-term but *permanent* intentions towards you and your relationship with him. You might not realise. It's usually the woman (or woman figure) who follows the man wherever he has to be, not the other way round. Think about if he did go back, even this 'early': his life back there has anywhere between got seriously delayed or ceased to exist altogether. Never forget that.

These sentiments I'm giving you may SEEM contradictory to what I've said before, but they're not. Because I'm talking about you, the host, finding then implementing that safe and perfect balance between 'mi casa es su casa' and 'it's *my* house, not yours (so you can't do that and just help yourself to this/that)'. It's a tricky balance to strike, that's for sure. This is a 50% takeover, Jim, just not as we know it (- am paraphrasing Mr Spock from StarTrek, despite I'm not even remotely a Trekkie, I just love that quote! (, I should swiftly add before my credibility hits the floor, LOL)).

I'll say it again: long-distance relationships are up there in the 'hardest' league in terms of a smooth-running path and lasting where so many feel like bone-shakers whether or not they eventually die a death. I think, CONSIDERING the massive teething process you and he have taken on, you two are doing surprisingly well. And so must the pair of you, deeper down, hence feeling entitled to a joint, couples holiday (actions!).

So this is still just teething pain and difficulty between two *very* dedicated, very determined and tenacious people who are as 'bad' as each other when it comes to being used to and comfortable about trusting to that degree without letting past betrayals (ones now made potentially 'relevant' all over again) hobble you and deprive you of a normal life with all its important features and accessories - or without constantly *worrying* they will/could/might, I should say. I repeat: a lot of couples in your exact boat with your same baggage would have split up for good (and probably quite horribly or messily) before now. All the pair of you lack is *confidence*. In yourselves and in life, not each other as a paired-up unit. (Diff/all the diff.) So I think it's safe to say you can STOP being frightened that every clash and niggle spells the first step on the road to Splat-ville. It does not. It's just teething or test-driving trouble (whichever you want to call it)....which while going through just FEELS a lot more serious than it is.

...A bit TOO convincingly, sometimes. That's why you've got to largely ignore the blah-blahs, even the hurtful ones said in anger, and just keep a running tally in your head of all his *actions* (and *lack* of actions where would have been negative), plus your own in reaction (in case your partner's dragging you down to what is a lower level than you'd like or keeping you down by climbing on your back to make only himself higher).

Yes, letting Mr S stay home to share in my fortunate position of early retirement did take a toll, considering I'm not good with constant-constant company even at the best of times. But things this important and life-altering/re-birthing take time and repetition to get used to until comes the point where you can safely kiss your past life and lifestyle goodbye...and, if your 'new life' is streets ahead, with a 'good riddance to empty rubbish!'.

"-gonna call the friend."

Excellent. Even if the friend can't help, the FACT you asked, and just one person rather than a multitude (helping, not taking over), likewise speaks volumes and will get noted. Call it your version of a balcony bench. Something *not* nowadays counting as routine/involuntary. And that's the trick with puppy-pimping: got to remember the choccie drops for positive reinforcement AS WELL as the smack on the nose for deterrence. ;-)

Anyway, I'll stop there as, looking up, I'm obviously in a chatty mood, meaning we'll both be here all day, otherwise. :-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 20 2016 at 16:52
Member since: 19 August 2014
Oh! Just realised you responded again while I was finishing up. Well, I'll have to read and respond to that one later or tomorrow....busy-busy-busy, pant-pant!
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 20 2016 at 17:24
Member since: 19 August 2014
Okay, well I read it anyway and it doesn't affect anything I've just said/outlined/exemplified. As for the lack of drink thing, that's easy to cancel out if tonight you make a point of making him an extra special drink (like, if he's into hot chocolate, with choc shavings, canned squirty cream, and marshmallows) and pointing it out subtly and pretend-off-handedly as you join him on the sofa: "Here you go, made you a drinkipoos, what's on telly, then?". That way, he'll just put that last incident down to your own, purely fleeting mood at the time, not evidence of some permanent attitude emerging from its hiding place or a sign you're mad at him over something.

As for 'looking around': well he can't be everywhere at once, I suppose. He's in the past AND in the future, as in - for hypothetical example only - [past], 'Was dad horrid to mum because mum sometimes acted like Nana acted the other day and dad automatically took it badly and seriously, meaning, I've been too hard on him?, etc., etc., and [future] 'Sh*t, here I am, having to get and applying for jobs when I don't even know if I still *want* to be a chef or whether I'd rather be this/that/this...!' (after all, a new life does make you re-evaluate old habits). That's just normal male lack of multi-tasking skill (thinking that heavily about something is still a task). That's the sort of thing you DO need to be lighthearted over, as in, 'Hello, are you still with us?'.

"ps.sry about me being so demanding sometimes.."

I'm used to it, LOL. All I'd ask, though, "going forward" (kkk!, spit! - buzzwords) is that you don't issue a new post before you've seen me respond to your last. I can't really multi-task, either.

But, nope, no actual problems this month as far as I can see. :-)

PS: How's the sex-life compared to last time I asked you?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 25 2016 at 02:46
Member since: 19 August 2014
Hello! (hello!...hello!...)

Are you there? (there...there...)

Echo! (echo....echo...)

Seriously, though - are we done? Or are you just too busy enjoying a period of fun, peace and harmony with him to post?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 25 2016 at 14:42
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hey Soulmate,

What kinda question is that? I thought u knew me by now, miss panicy is here to stay :)

No but seriously, quick update:

Left for road Trip/ Camping Trip on saturday and didnt Really have Wireless or Little me Time to Write u.there r One or two Things i would like your Input for, but for the next few(Wireless-Less) days im Gonna follow some of your tips. Going ok tho :) ( with some Little bumps ofc..)

Dont go away, still need u!

And sorry for Not writing sooner!

See u soon :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 27 2016 at 22:19
Member since: 19 August 2014
Fairenoughski, LOL.

Glad things are okay. But what do you mean 'don't go away'? I can't, I'm chained to my desk in this here 'Hotel California'!

Yup - "laters!".

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on May 29 2016 at 00:46
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hey Soulmate,

Right now we made a stop on ou Way to the next Camping Side.

Days here were ok like i said. Well, in the Start he was Really Stressed because the women who we wanted to Rent the Car from wrote is an Hour before we arrived in denmark and cancelled it (i Stayed calm because i knew we were Gonna find something aaand we found an Even cheaper One) :D . Thats were he Really started stressing out and just before we left my Country the mood got stranger again.. Him telling me that he started feeling like before he left for denmark.. I said that its normal that he is feeling like that because nothing Really happened yet (No Job etc.)..he did Mention us having More sex has to Happen..and we did Start having More After he came back but somehow (After the Fight wht his friend and then him having a depressed mood for some days) i totally lost interest in sex somehow and also when i Start feeling like he is making a lot of joke about me (every SECOND -and im Not joking - sentence i say is repeated and laught about......so annoying and honestly, how should i behave?? When i get Mad im challenging him and then im his "dad", when im sad and say "bby thats Not very nice and a "sad face" he says im overreacting and then there is also the Ignoring it(which i do a lot) but he then thinks its fine..Soulmate with that behaviour he is 1. destroying my mood 2. making me feel like im Worth sh*t..and. Think that is causing his mood right now which is "emotionally Pushed away"<- his words half an Hour ago when i asked him how he is feeling..no one asked me btw..)

So when we arrived at our First stop and he just couldnt stop with his angry Attitüde and bitchiness 2 days later i "sat him down" and said(without Really raising my Voice) "ok, enough is enough now.u have Been behaving like a Little spoild brat. U r entiteled to being Stressed and sad and this and that and ofc the Partner will get affected by the Other ones mood, but after a while u could Start looking around to see if there is someone who maybe "is there" too and saying that u were super Stressed and that its better now and then u sy sorry to the Person who hasnt Been starting Fights and who let u let it out in Peace without complaining" and First it didnt Really got to him(atleast Not Fully) and in that night it was a bit to much and i forgot that "im Not helpless" like u said and i cried a bit without him noticin.g

but i think the Day After we Spoke again and i said it and i also said that he has "to prove himself"( in a waaaay More harmless Way) because we Don want him to get all scared again and depressed.. However u know what he said After i said "im Not doing all of it over again and that Things have to change because itseGonna just Repeat itself if we dont"

He said something like " u know what i noticed? Right before i Went to denmark u started having this attitude like "u have to stand up for yourself" and like it was just my fault everything" and i said that i am a People pleaser and i noticed it with him too and i didnt like myself like that so I DO have to stand up for myself and then he said well he also noticed that with him and he is Gonna do that too(what Ever Mister Ego..) but yeah the following days Went well .

After that i also got a lot calmer like u said (havent had the Chance to reread it,Gonna tho)and i noticed that in situations (like me thinking that something is wrong because he isnt that "lovy" or isnt behaving like i would like him t) in the past i would have started worring and asking why is he breathing so heaviliy or tell him that i can notice him being nervous and Stressed and so on(Pressuring him into more worries) but i didnt and i let lose and it was Fine i knew that he was just Gonna get More uncomfortable so i Went with the Flow..Till two Days After we Went some groceries.

Well what happened there was that i got sick of giving in(everytime we did or bought something it was More or Less his decision because i didnt Really care about it and then i wanted something Else then he did and he just started fighting with me there, well Not Really fighting but the passyness (passive aggressive) started there i guess and Since then its Been like that more or Less..he is totally surprised (and p *ssed off i. A Way?) when i want something and Not just give in..and he started showing Less and Less affection(and half an Hour ago he said that. "Something is missing and i feel pushed away emotionally")

Just so u have more Info:

I started Singing and actually using the "no no No" and he mentioned that too in our talks saying that he feels rejected a lot..the thing is tho ive Been mostly using them when he gets inapproriate like he loves touching me in the c *otch and the boobs just all of a sudden and A LOT also in Public and to say it in his words im Not Really. Digging that..

Ive also noticed how disrespectful he is talking about women.. And then he Looks at me After he said something to see my reaction and then he Laughs like a Little Boy..

He is Testing me...like a lot and in the meantime im thinking too Slow and Not reacting properly so he thinks his behaviour is ok..right?

What ive also noticed is that he is putting me down a lot and giving me some "funny" nicknames so instead of a genuine "Baby" he is saying "babovitch" etc... Im feeling the past repeating..and i do get Little "crazymoments" where im like. "No!!!stop behaving that Way i want my honey back " but that just happens in my Head and im Not saying it..

We have Been having Sex Daily for the Last days btw but i Really dont want to now that he is so disrespectful in some ways...

Oh btw today i was a bit mellow..and he Felt it but only because i was thinking and wasnt Really sure how to react to this all of a sudden.. Me he Felt it so he asked me what was going on but i dont Really think he cared that much (Once again ... ) and at some Point he was annoyed(?) well however i said that im Not Really "digging" his jokes and he was like "ok bby"

He feels like he has a lot of power right now, i am the One Who asked him how he was and then said "emotionally pushed away"=distanced (hellooooo past! I believe back then u suggested the "break")

I am Really trying to step up for myself this time, do u think thats it ? Do u think that he is behaving like he is because i was laking that?

I have the feeling like i am reacting to every movement he Makes but when it comes to me he isnt, he is sometimes. (I guess ) slightly Ignoring me and waiting with answering when we talk OR AND I HATE THIS:

When we speak and mostly its important Topics when this happens, he just gets distracted and or "he forgot that this and that " or "its getting too dark, we have to put up the tent now, can we do this later" and then he doesnt say anything. Because he is used to me saying "Hey what about our talk" every!single!time!!!

And now im in bed, updating u and we r talking "babovitch" "honey babs"(Other nickname) back and forth and im kinda getting sick of it so i said to him "why Arent u talking about it? I thought we were Gonna talk a bit" and then he just said he didnt wanna talk.....(i could Punch him in the face)however this is what came out if the conversations:

(Short Version)

Me: u r testing me and im getting super bored with this Games! and i wanna solve stuff snd u dont Really talk properly and honestly

Him: im Not, im just feeling Bad about myself and u Pulling away emotionally is making me distance and i do wanna say stuff but im Not so Social anymore and besides that u spend the Last two hours on that Forum and so u didnt Really wanna approach

Me: im Pulling away because u r being direspectful and im Not doing this all over again!! And i was waiting for u to Mention it ( its him feeling Bad isnt it?)

Him: im Not either btw and im Not Testing, sometimes u dont care about the jokes and laugh and Other Times u do

Me: here is how u r testing me: "(and then i said the stuff i already mentioned with him saying disrespectful stuff and then lookin, laughing like a 10 Year old at me and waiting for a reaction)" and Also " (the thing i also said before with me just wanting to give him some Space to stress around and let it out but apparently i gave him to much Space and he thought he could just "walk all over me")"

Him: that doesnt even make Sense, what would i get from that?

Me: i just think that when i say "No" u take it Way to personally, im just trying to Guide u , u can see it the Same Way as with sex "this girl likes this better and this girl likes that better"

Him:yeah i get that and i Really bettered myself Since i was with u but thats Not it, im insecure, im getting introverted and u r Pulling away emotionally and that Makes me distance myself(i guess the Result is him being Less "care-y")

I wanna sleep now, im tired and i thought we could talk about this a bit but now im Way to tired

Me: yeah..

Ok so, yeah..im thinking yes, there is the possibility of me showing my Feelings More, but tbh its hard when i have to Look for them ..and he isnt Really showing them genuinely either so its hard and i think before we Went to the Trip we talked about it in Vienna.he was saying stuff like "its Not genuine" and me saying "it is bit its Not genuine from your Side"..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on May 30 2016 at 13:36
Member since: 19 August 2014
What exactly is this "joke" he keeps coming out with? And does 'all the time' mean whenever you two are disagreeing over anything or literally all the time, no matter what the mood happens to be between you?

If the minute you try to stand up for yourself against that over-teasing (because it's become too much or got dragged on for too long) you become 'just like his dad' or are making a mountain out of a molehill according to him (although I seriously doubt he dared tease his dad all the time like that), then he's trying to use shame and belittlement to tie your hands against answering back, which is not good because it basically amounts to this: sit there, motionless, without complaining, while I use you as a bit of a punching-bag.

He can't do the distinct opposite of emotional foreplay and then later on complain via his mouth and how he behaves because you're not in the mood to get all cuddly, romantic and frisky. That's just plain thick and immature, not to mention nasty and uncalled for.

Why, though, do you cry in secret? You should make him have to FACE the result of his bad moods shoved at you. He wants shame and guilt? - HE'S GOT IT! And, frankly, STUFF 'the harmless way'. It's not as if he's trying to temper himself for the sake of *your* feelings, now, is it. If he doesn't like the machine failing to deposit a choccie bar in its tray because he's putting in duff coins or giving the machine a swift kick then the exceedingly simple solution is, DON'T PUT IN DUFF COINS.

What happened to 'customer/choccie vending machine'? (Yes, you should re-read the thread.) Stop pandering to him and trying to manage his ever-changing moodiness, Nana. Give him both barrels if he's done more than enough to deserve them or to the point of 'asking' for them. That's his own look-out and something he's in complete control over when it comes to avoiding.

But, oh, so he's noticed you're not taking his crap any more is he? GOOD. Ignore that stupid speech of his - actions from then on in fact said the opposite. So it was just bluff.

I think what you've got going on here is, baby not liking the new 'family rules' of better behaviour and, whenever in a mood that suits, mounting a campaign to see if he can wear you down and make you drop them and your new standards so that you'll go back to being his part-time personal push-over (or random-time, I should say!). Grit your teeth. HE'S the one who needs breaking/taming, because only he's the one who keeps insisting on intermittently depositing drops of toxicity into your love nest. You're not his bloody mother, expected to rise above it like it's water off a duck's back. It is NOT water it is bloody upsetting when he's supposed to be a grown man with manners, decorum and charm of a lady-friendliness to match, not least because he's supposed to be in love with you and want to protect you. If he, your number 1 protector, is failing and, worse, is at times the very thing you need protecting *from* then, damn right that's when you're going to have to do it yourself!

Pff, 'something is missing', he says. Yeah, Einstein, it's called a never wavering attitude of cherish-ment. GOD, your boyfriend makes me want to slap him when he gets like this. You're right, too often he behaves like a spoiled baby: perfectly friendly when everything's as he likes it but turning spiteful as uck in zero seconds flat any minute it isn't (and *particularly* whenever you're his prisoner, like trapped in the car with him). How dare he withdraw all affection and then minutes later complain like it's you who pushed YOURSELF away. CAKE & EAT IT ATTITUDE ALERT!

Next time, tell him to stop the car. Say you're going home and will make your own way, he can do what he likes, you no longer give a sh*t, you just know you don't want to go away with him any more because he's being mean and nasty and you're NOT HAVING ANY FUN and you're not some sort of masochist.

And if he sees it that you standing up for yourself against his silent or noisy tirades is tantamount to his being rejected by you then someone should tell him he's wrong and that it's actually you responding like a normal human being to his rejection and/or exploitation OF YOU.

I cannot believe a grown man can't already work that out for himself. (What is he - five?! Has learning difficulties?) And I can't believe he's reverting to behaving like this. (Wants *another* trip to Denmark, does he, and this time longer?) Or is he just too hurt and resentful because you haven't wanted to be intimate with him for weeks? Well, then, he should take a long, hard look at himself and his so-called wooing technique, shouldn't he. Because from where I'm standing, too much of the time it's PANTS! So which James Bond movies did HE watch?, ask him...because me, I can't remember ONE that featured Bond 'wooing' the woman into bed using ranting, griping, b*tching, niggling and protracted so-called 'only teasing', combined with sexual advances that are more like accosting and violation. I doubt very much the character or film series would have caught on so, if he had - don't you?

I don't know, Nana...I think this boy has just got too much growing-up still to do and has barely a clue about how to treat a lady. And no, you're not 'too slow' to react just because you have no past frame of reference for knowing how to and wouldn't in the first place HAVE TO know how. It's him. He's the problem. But if you're still determined to stick with it (that being because his nice side far outweighs his bad) then - from now on, refuse to even listen to a minute of his nonsense, let alone engage in it. Just - 'stop the car!' (figuratively speaking). Or else next he'll be burping in your face and gigglingly asking, 'Are you turned-on yet?'. In other words, you don't have to go as far as to chuck him out or chuck in this customisation attempt of yours (JUST NEVER FORGET THAT YOU *CAN* chuck him out, is the important part). Whenever he gets like that you can just walk out, walk away, blank him completely and refuse to even have a conversation with him. Try it. The minute he starts, you put your flat hand up like a police traffic-duty officer and just say a loud, 'NOPE! I don't DO taking crap. You might have got away with it when you were still young and cute [euphemism for when you first moved in], but - NOT ANY MORE, MISTER. It just turns me RIGHT OFF you.'

And that's the key with otherwise lovely boyfriends with this sort of rotten streak (and you're too proud to let them see you cry): it's I AM DISTINCTLY UNIMPRESSED AND TURNED-OFF, BLEUGH!, not, Whyy are you beeeing so meeeean to meeee?

Alternatively, do what I do when (thankfully rarely) Mr S gets stupid like that. Look at him with obvious disgust and say, 'Pff..I don't think much of your chat-up techniques', or a blatently sarcastic, 'Stop-stop...You're turning me on too much, I can't take it'.

"Ive also noticed how disrespectful he is talking about women.. And then he Looks at me After he said something to see my reaction and then he Laughs like a Little Boy.." Yep, there it is. He's resentful at you and deliberately trying to get a rise out of you. Well, as I say, that's his own silly fault so he can go and offend his own reflection in the mirror, then, can't he. But even if you *did* do something to pee him off - that is NOT how a gentleman reacts! (They say, Can you come and sit down because I have something I need to talk to you about.) Can he do it? Can he behave more like a gentleman? Even under a tiny bit of duress (oh, boo-hoo)? Does he want to start proving it or does he want to eff off and leave you to find someone who can?

Who in the past has he dated that would always take this too-intermittent sh*t of his yet still open her arms and legs for him later that evening like nothing untoward had happened? Who *that desperate*, I should say! I'd like to give *her* a damn good reality-slapping as well.

Oh, wait - apparently it's not just me: "(i could Punch him in the face)"

Good/phew! So would any self-respectful person (feel like that, I mean).

Oh, and - I don't buy his 'yes I know I have a problem' admission nonsense. He proved that false the minute he said he cut the conversation 'because he was too tired'. Admitting or being seen to admit you have a problem but then very next occasion just REPEATING it is not what people generally understand to be an attempt to curb and rectify bad behaviour for the sake of future togetherness. It's more a childish attempt to say, 'I can't help it, poor me!'.

Yeah, he can. And if he can't then he's not qualified to be any woman's relationship partner and should try dating a man instead. Although I do think he'd be surprised to find they're even MORE sensitive on that score than women!

Shape up or ship out, Hansypansy. You, Nana, do the NOPE! tactic first for a few weeks as a verbal warning of where you're at, end-of-tether wise, and, if that doesn't work, you dump. He can always chase after you and try to persuade you back in, can't he, big boy like him....WITH promises, THIS TIME GENUINE, to clean up his act. But if he can't ever join the dots between how he treats you and how amorous YOU'RE NOT then he's just too damned thick and childish for someone like you.

Time will tell...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 6 2016 at 16:30
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

we came home to a lot of stress again ( i have a ton of plus hours to do)

when i find a quiet moment, im gonna answer and update.

i appreciate u still being here, eventhough u have to :P

i have more info and i already stated very roughly this time that this is not how im gonna keep continueing the relationship ( just for u as a little update)

have to go already, but im gonna come back!hope thats ok, im gonna be so super busy the next week for sure..

laters! :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 6 2016 at 23:55
Member since: 19 August 2014
No, that's fine. I haven't got time to burp this week, either! When you're ready...

PS: Cheers for the update crux, that was very thoughtful. :-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 9 2016 at 15:05
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

quick question before i start responding and updating. ive been a bit noisy and checked the other threads and there is something that caught my eye and yeah i know its nothing new to me hahaha:

"Even Mr S (cheated on by ex-wife) has tried this kind of thing. Back when we were long-distance and he felt my attention thus interest seemingly waning (I was just bloody busy ffs) or just unequal to his own but felt powerless to do anything about it from there, he'd, for example, text to say, 'Sorry bebe, can't phone tonight after all - having supper at my parents', when that had never stopped him before. Or ' - going to cinema tonight with a friend'.

With a FRIEND. Ermahgeeerd, he must be cheating!, I was supposed to think...and start looking-at-him, looking-at-him-and-only-him. (Not biting, I'd text back, 'Okie-dokes. Tell Sebastian I said Hi'.) "

hm..ok..soooo, this (situation) is very common still in our relationship (him behaving like that A freaking LOT)..and made me shut down a lot of feelings..hm.. AND like we both know, thats kinda lethal to boyfriend atm.

here is the thing,ive been thinking that the following:

my stress level + his stress level + new country + new language + low self esteem (from both sides) + the "girlfriend has guyfriends" + new "mom" is really really sick and real mom died + not knowing how to be (live) with achother because we havent yet + me not believing that we will ever meet in real life so i couldnt ("didnt really")show as much effection and NOW he is demanding it like u know because he was showing it "all this time" before we met + (last not least) me starting a relationship (not really but i was with a friends friends for 2 months) shortly after we met online and so disappoiting him (and myself tbh, but what can i say, im young, it was really just sex and the guy is ok but thats it)

had a big big big effect on his emotions and trust in me or is it something else?maybe it just had a big effect on his ego? not quite sure were im going with this but ive got the feeling that we havent past the phase (disregarding the stuff u heard from me while we were in denmark) u just nicely discribed..what do u say? i mean its a lot isnt it? but the last days (eventho u r gonna read what i wrote him and also said in person(i most certainly ment that!!))i was thinking about our situations like this:

1.) he is right in a way because everything i mentioned AND poor him, like really.. :(

2.) no he is not right because he still has to respect me and with that respect my feelings going to grow or lets say start showing to me and him again so no mercy..

i just had to sum it up for u and me (more me i guess) because it just came to my mind like "heeeey! bf is doing that too the whole time, isnt this supposed to be a phase?" and "when am i allow myself to be the vulnerable one?"..but again, im not used to it, like u know..

all the time im recognizing (or lets say remembering) more and more how much stress EVERYTHING is causin me for months now. im having a break and smoking my cig at work and all of a sudden it strikes me how nice its smelling outside and "its actually spring, almost summer, oooh, this season used to make me happy like nothing else" and now everything is just so heavy..and tbh ive kinda semi-stopped being sad about it or lets say depressed, im more annoyed now..i want my peace god damnit..like really

u know, it would be really nice if we would just leave our BOTH heads and think "ok, we discussed stuff, now its time to have fun, try and work out a schedule and get a job.let the worrying be (boyfriend!)!!" and like i said because i am so annoyed im really trying not to think about all the problems and also im a bit ignoring him and not really acting on a lot of stuff he is doing (really trivial stuff) or i get annoyed, but mostly the past days i was thinking about how he and me dragged myself down, walking on toes all the time and not being my true self and also being angry etc..kinda really sick of that so i just started "feeling" the good weather for example or started craving more fun, telling him that i would like to see my friends and organized some parties we can go to because i really am sick of the discomfort we r putting ourselves in, all the overthinking (which ofcourse has some true in it) but im telling myself now "cmon,nana,stop it, life is too short!"(the worrying that is-its like poisson..and im feeling it very very much now, more then ever..such a uncomfortable feeling, such a burden...ma gad..

**********************

so, i acknowledged what u wrote me up there and i included it in my responds too (in a way) but yeah soulmate, i know whats going on, i just have to trust my gut and see where it leads me..and as i might have told u i never really "felt" my gut, dont know why but ive started now and if i dont see change i am going to end it (which at the moment wouldnt even be that hard for me, because my picture of him isnt the best and like i said im getting slightly annoyed with fighting and misunderstandings..feel like its enough of that and that if something is up lets "just be real with eachother"

*********************

so, what happened after we came back is this:

i (while we were in denmark still) figured out that i CANT be all lovy because he isnt showing me the respect i was used to getting (duuuuh!) from him and that from the start (from the moment he moved here..so that made me not develop more honest feelings or kept the old ones deep down and everything that happened on top of that (and there is a long list like u know) made me lose more and more respect (like u know). i told him. he felt/ FEELS bad about himself now..

- the thing is AFTER 1.) the convo where he shut me down saying "im tired" (well go and fkn fck yourself-sorry, i had to, still makes me mad thinking about that) + 2.) another convo where i tried talking to him and tried to solve something (because dont u, soulmate, believe that he EVER COMES TO ME to have a convo) he had to ...'wait for it, drum roll'.. HE WANTED TO EAT HIS BREAD, WHICH WAS IN THE KITCHEN, WHILE IT WAS WARM! so he just said in the middle of our conversation "i just have to go and get the bread while it was warm" while i was opening up and so on.. LIKE R U KIDDING ME???

so, he is the thing that i wrote him 2 days after that:

ME:

i started out having tons and tons of respect for u because u were

considerate, always had an ear for me and we Shared a lot of opinions

and when u were in denmark u started showing me again that u r able to

put yourself in my shoes and u showed that u wanted to listen and

consider my interests, but with every month and every fight that u

didnt wanna resolve because u were too stubborn and everytime u didnt

wanna put yourself in my position i lost bit by bit respect for u..ive

been telling u listen to what i have to say but u didnt want to, u

were stubborn didnt wanna "give in" and from that i started losing

respect for u because it wasnt about giving in it was about seeing

that we BOTH r right and have a right to our opinion ..i didnt feel

any compassion and the wish to resolve anything, u just wanted what U

wanted..

then u started being super suspicious not giving me any proof that im

worth being trusted, everytime i said something u didnt give me the

benefit of the doubt, but more or less said and thought "well so

typically women" and "every women wants this and that and does this

and that" " i know stuff like that" and in reality u dont know

anything maybe u know how "all the other women are" but u apparently

dont know me or trust WHEN I EVEN TELL U what i want and how i think

about stuff-that gets IGNORED because u know better, well u dont and

showing how much weight u r giving me and the information im giving u

shows me that u r not respecting and considering my opinion:

Example: yesterday, ive Been telling u for months and months that u

putting your Needs First because u wanna SNACK your bread while its

hot is just telling me "i dont give a flying fuck" and tat leads to me

Closing up and slowly Losing Respect and interest.. I always told u

that u have the right to feel the Way u feel and i always am here if u

wanna talk and when u r having a Bad Day/week whatever it is but then

When i make an afford example 2: Start talking because U HAVE A

PROBLEM AND I WANNA HELP U is again "u dont give a fuck" and that too

Makes me lose a lot of understanding and Respect..

All the Things u r doing and where i told u im Not ok with it i am

Losing the will and interest and Then i CANT Show u anything because i

cant Even find the Feelings After being treated like that..

Another example:

We r Sitting in the Train and u r having this attitude(like the first

time we took the night train and where i thought "well ok he isnt used

to it") like u r the only one who doesnt wanna be there and i didnt

wanna be there either but u r someone who is complaining and

complaining without having any idea how to solve it or make it better,

u r just playing the victim.. Like i already said Everyone is entiteld

to their Feelings but u r Not considering that the Person next to u is

having the same feelings and when u said stuff it was like u were

blaming me for it and then also "this is the last time, next time we r

taking the plane" EVENTHOUGH u know that i have a fear of flying and

generally of hights..i was just like " :O " i coulndt believe that u

would even say it in such a tone..do u think i like it? do u think i

can control the panic i have when i enter a plane?no understanding

what so ever from u and that makes me feel like im beeing blamed, not

understood and forgotten, just because u want it more confortable or u

wanna eat your bread when its warm..

months and months u r were showing so little support and compassion

that i was leaving early and coming home late so we can live a normal

life or just have a home and so on,not showing any ambition that u

wanna take metters in your own hands and wanna help me get our lifes

started, always thinking "hmm, do i wanna do this, or that?" "no, i

dont want that because this and that" and i gave u all the support i

even told u after u kept comlpaining that u wanna see me more and u r

scared of losing me the OK for u to quit your job, but that didnt mean

that i gave u the permission to put me in the possition to ask u to

get started..

i know how hard it is for u and i always tried to give u the chance to

talk to me or to help u apply or find something..never u came to me

and said ok this and that and help me because its not that easy for me

always i was the one begging u to start your life..do u know what kind

of impression that has on me? that i have to take care of that

too..putting so much on my plate and then complaining that im not

cleaning dishes..i agreed that we r gonna split it until u get lucky

and find a job and then i also have to worry about if u r gonna get

mad because im exhausted as fuck but u want to prove a point and dont

wanna do the household on your own..again, no compassion, eventhough u

knew the conditions i was working under, what kinda stress i had in my

job and my mom and all the other stuff, but no, u felt like i was

taking advantage of u eventhough i did everything so u r comfortable

and maybe that was my mistake.. u made yourself the victim every

single time and every single time we had that fight u didnt wanna

understand all the stuff i said above

u were taking me for granted, what i ment with "im not your parent"

is that i dont have to take it and i dont have to put up with it it is

NOT unconditional, the condition is RESPECT, with your inconsiderate

behavior u r just showing me no respect and losing my interest..u cant

take me for granted because if u do and dont get out of your head u r

just gonna be a burden for me and nothing else..ive tried to have a

lot of understanding but the only thing i saw is yesterday and the day

before were u said "sorry that im so touchy" thats it nothing else,

not compassion, u dont wanna see that when im talking about important

stuff to SOLVE OUR(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) PROBLEMS and CONSERNS that u r

just showing disrespect

u have to understand once and for all u being in your head and not

finding CONCRETE solutions like everyone is supposed to do is making u

inconsidarate and disrespectful, in your world its always about "u

wanting to eat the bread while its warm" and not "she is trying to

comunicate and solve stuff and im gonna concentrate on that and show

her a bit respect"

the one person who wants exactly what u want, who is fighting for u to have a good life with me together and who loves u, u r treating poorly when im trying to tell u "hey, this is how u can make me show u more love, affection and disire" but u r ignoring it, u r not seeing that the small things metter and weigh heavy..

im am done starting any conversations and i feel like an idiot even trying to make u UNDERSTAND what i need because its just getting ignored and not considered..and if u keep doing that i can garantee u that the feelings and the respect that is left is gonna fade pretty soon

when i have some time, or on my way home, im gonna copy and past what he wrote back.

have fun reading! :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 9 2016 at 16:00
Member since: 27 January 2016
HIM:

My mail doens't work right now, so i'm gonna answer here:

I am sorry that you lost alot of respect for me doing this, i did for myself too. Alot about me was put to a test, with doing this. THe relationship, me moving here, friends, job, language etc. We still share the same opinions about most stuff, that hasn't changed, it might've been tested a bit with our moods, and with anger, lack of understanding, but that's something else. We have a a big problem, with being told that were a wrong (most of the times) I am very sorry for coming off as that, and it makes me feel very ashamed about myself, and a bit confused. Some of the times, its not about being right (not for me atleast) Its about feeling misunderstood, and blamed, for a situation that i feel like i am getting all the blame for. I have to get better at standing up for what i did, no doubt about that, more than i do now, even tho i am trying.

Trust is very important in a relationship, and to be teammates/soulmates. It caused me a great deal of pain, realizing how little we had for each other.. I know, that you know, that its gotten better, with me trusting you, because it has.. We went through some stuff, that started our relationship off with some bad foundations, and which made it tricky.. I was so scared of losing you again, in the start, that i put alot of weight on stuff that it hought was a potential treat. (the dating site, other guys, colleagues, feeling distanced from you (emotionally and psysically) That was very unfortunate stuff, and not what i was ready to deal with.. The guy friends thing caused me alot of sorrow, through out the time, and made me think alot, doubt alot (about myself, us) and scared. "In a world where all i wanted was to follow my good compass, i fell victiim to my own past", I met alot of bad women, saw alot of stuff and my mom too, made me angry with women, and made me have a bad view upen them. I am sorry for any of this being let out on you.

I am really trying to be in the moment.. In a lot of ways.. When we talk, when we cuddle, when we experience stuff.. Mostly for you, because it hurts you alot, where in alot of situations i don't even realize it.. Me walking out on our talks, is disrespectful, and not okay, i am sorry about that.. And i thought alot about it, and felt very bad.. We have some misunderstand in it too tho, as yesterday.. Where after i was thinking, i shouldn't have walked out, but why didnt she wait with initiating the talk... I feel that a lot of times, you get mad at me because of it, because its been started at a very bad moment/timing.. We have to figure out something, with it, because i don't expect you to drop everything you are doing, when we could wait 5 min, before we initiate the talk.. Communication, if we boil it down.

(i am not excusing walking out on our talks, thats not what it's about, i just want a mutual agreement to the future, and a way to avoid misunderstanding)

I am sorry that i lost it, on the way in the train, and said this is the last time we are doing this, it was not very considerate, i think alot about the fears you have, and try my very best, to be there for you, and show understanding, and help out, either by trying to say the right words, or the shut up when i can't.. Your fear of being alone, the dentist, the plane etc, is very present in my mind..I am sorry that i said "we're taking the plane the next time" Again, it was me not thinking about you, because i was dealing with alot on my mind..

The night train incident:

You've brought it up alot now, even tho i do understand you, i am not really sure, why i am blamed for it. I was just trying to get some sleep. You couldn't sleep, and you told me that, but i was very tired, and had to try and sleep.. I was lying halfway over on another person to try and give you space too.. I am a big guy, so i do take up some space.. I don't fully get why you are so mad at me for that.. We both had a very uncomfortable ride, i just managed to sleep like 2 more hours than you, and that's it..

Its not fair, that you say that i don't want us to have a normal life, as in you saying that you work hard, and come home early, and then i don't want to work.. I found the Steirereck work, before i got here, because of that.. Then did the german course, so that i could get a job in the future. It's not about me being lazy, i do want a job, badly, but i am also scared, as i told you alot of times. I am sorry if that doesn't add up to your image of how a man is suppose to be, but this took a very large toll on me, moving here, and i have been trying very hard.. I know i failed, but that doesn't mean i didnt try.

I am keeping this household clean. I make sure that there is food to eat, that it's clean, that we bring our clothes, that i fix broken stuff, put up new stuff. Alot of this to ease your day, and for it to work for us, and for us to enjoy it. Its not fair that you say that i dont. There has been a couple of times where i have had alot to do a day. I got groceries, i cleaned some of it, i prepped food, i showered, shaved etc (to be delicious for you) and went to get you, so i didnt fully have time to get maybe some of the dishes, but that doesn't equal me not keeping this clean for us, because i do..

We are not each others parrents, and the last thing i want, is for us to be in the role for each other, that's what i mean with cleaing up after ourselfs, that's why i have a hard tiem asking for you to translate something for me, or ask you a favor, because i feel that you hold it against me, but also because i don't want us to be parrents for each other.. I want us to be equal and independent..

So, i tried my best to show understanding, and to not get mad through out this, but you were very angry, and had a lot of stuff built up, when you were writing me this, i can feel it. And some of it is halfway to not being very nice, and not really reflect on you understanding alot of stuff that we already spoke about in the past. If i were to take this litterally, i look very bad in your eyes. I am a person who doesn't wanna work, who only thinks about himself, who doesn't give a shit about you, who doesn't take care of himself or is able to bring anything good to the table. And that is not true.

And you haven't been in the chefs industry, or worked the jobs i had, so you don't know what i know about this. And i can feel on myself, that doing a kitchen job like those i did in the past, is not gonna be good for me at the moment. Its not about being lazy, its a bout having wisdom in this field, and knowing what is actually going on.

And feeling how much stress i am under now, and how i am gonna end up, or how we are gonna end up, if i do that again.

The walking out while we are talking, is very disrespectful, i am sorry for that. Not fair to you at all.

The being to touchy grabbing numse, breasts etc, is too much to, i am sorry for that.

I am sorry about the bubble, i am very in my head here, and it makes it a bit hard for me..

The thing with showing love, i need that, in order to show that too.. I've been giving everything i have regarding showing the love in the start, and i didnt get any back.. It scared me alot, and made me be very careful, as in what i give. I need it from you too.. Even tho i am a man.

ME:

I dont need u to be th First to Show Love it whatever, i also know that we can do it at the Same Time but what i was talking about is Respect! I cant do anything without Respect gen i feel like stuff gets forgotten and therefore Not considered its disrespect and without that im Never Gonna b able to Show u anything

U Not Wanting to work in the Chefs Industry doesnt mean in my eyes that u r Not a man but Not Taking hands into your own metters and trying to fix the unemplyment thats what Makes me lose it because i cant just give up and Start Studying and putting the Focus on what i love i have to have this Job because we need the Money.. I know u r scared and overwhelmed but its because nothing changed (Not nothing but Nothing dramatical like a finding a Job Meeting ppl and so on) which would lead to a lot of relief

Its Not "being a Parent" when u ask for help

And if i Really came of as me holdig it against u that u asked for help with something then im Really sorry

But i think i havent the only thing is the washing dishes..

Im Not telling u and i wouldnt DARE to Tell u what u have to do im Telling u u have to do something.. U have your experience in the Chefs Business and thats ok but so many months u werent doing anything and also Not Stepping up coming to me Sitting me down.. No, i had te feeling like u were waiting for me to say something.. I need u as a partner here period.. I have to see u take the initative Which Shows Respect and understanding

HIM:

I do get the thing with the respect, and i am gonna try even harder.

Like Really

ME:

I can Cut u some slack for example when u r sooo super Stressed IN THE MOMENT so u forget something but that stress Ends eventually and then Not approaching me on your own and saying " a shit honey, im sorry im Gonna make it up" like a partner HAS TO DO then its just being ignorant.. We r Partners there is 2 of us and it always was, is and Gonna be JUST US and if there is something to plan that considers us I ALWAYS talk to u so i would like u to do the Same, its very important to me that u r updated ALWAYS and that when i talk to my mom u R NOT left out ALWAYS so the next Time when u have to talk to your das about stuff that concerns us (for example, i already mentioned that in denmark, its a good example tho) i ask u to talk to me First so we can plan OUR Things together.. Because that is something that i always tried to do.. Thats a team

HIM:

U are right..

One thing tho

you don't always talk to me, alot of the times i have to ask you some times before you tell me. I need to you come to me and tell me too, when something is up..

ME:

U have to understand that i often didnt see the Point in doing that when a lot of Times what i said was ignored

Im Gonna do it from now on but it was hard seeing the Point in the past tbh

HIM:

There has been a lot of misunderstanding from both of us, i felt the same way alot of time.. And its hard for both of us to express ourselves when we receive the lack on understanding and anger too most of the times..

ME:

I get that.. But u can see how the Lack of Respect is clearly having an affect on a lot if Things

HIM:

Alot of stuff we are doing is having an effect in this..

ME:

And again just take my Input.. This is what is happening with me and why..ofc it does but i know why im being so and so, so take the Input

HIM:

I am..

ME:

Im just Really tired of saying it..like Really..Makes me feel aweful that i have to Fight u for it..

HIM:

I know.. I don't wanna fight either

Im going to shower before you come home

ME:

Ok

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 9 2016 at 20:18
Member since: 19 August 2014
You're getting to the end of your tether. Well, if you are, YOU ARE.

The problem, originally, due to your separate predicaments and personal issues (childhood homelife after-effects coming to the fore / mum gravely ill, etc.) was that NEITHER of you were in a position to enter something as hard on the heart and mind as a serious, passionate, romantic relationship. But both of you not being in happy places was something you had in common which, even if not revealed at the time, would still have been mutually, non-consciously recognisable and would have added to the draw/pull you both felt.

Your minds have not had ROOM to handle well the demands of a relationship, including (when cohabiting) trying to find ways to live smoothly with and alongside each other - especially the sometimes almighty nightmare that is the Power Struggle phase (and the more into each other you are, the more upsetting it is), something that current or past (but still active) senses of deprivations and settles to be scored would, at the time, have made you both fight far harder and more messily than perhaps you would have, had you met at a time when no other emotional unsettlers and influences had been present. You were both already stressed and over-aroused without realising it back when you first met and he moved over and in. And a relationship that you want so badly to succeed/not lose can be agitative in that respect and dredge up previously dormant issues. Ergo, you're both too quick to react and react too strongly...both a bit raw and over-sensitive to begin with.

But you DID start a relationship, so... spilt milk.

The Power Struggle is a PHASE, not a couple-of-months spate. It can, on-and-off, go on for a year or more. Or can be short and (particularly) sharp...over-concentrated and slightly traumatising while it lasts. Either/or. And far more likely to get dragged out and exacerbated if you were both stressed and feeling over-defensive or over-aggressive (or too ready to be) before you even entered it.

So instead of a normal bonding path (which as I say is tricky enough), yours and his was always rockier and more rutted that the ideal...sometimes even with fallen, hefty branches that had to be chainsawed out of the way, meaning, once you hit the typically foot-unfriendly part of the path (Power Struggle), your version likewise was worse than the norm. And, just to make it even harder and more complicated, you also each have a limp (jeopardised mum-child relationships in-common, having been badly let-down, etc.).

Two wounded soldiers *can* simultaneously lean on one another as they go. It doesn't actually help in terms of physical alleviation, obviously, because whatever strain of yours he's taking - you're at the same time taking his for him. (But women are 'taller/wider' emotionally so can end up with a heavier load.) However, *psychologically* it can be of help because neither of you is qualified to cast the first stone...and wouldn't anyway, out of automatic understanding, cross-identification and empathy. Although, obviously, that does require open and honest confiding about ones' histories and how you feel about it all.

Perversely enough, then, a tough road needn't be a sign that you're incompatible. It can be because you *are* compatible. (Sense?)

But it's hard on the heart.

Bad feelings tend to fade and positive remain with enough passage of time. You see that with the bereaved. Hence a break is supposed to be the next best thing to death of your partner. UNFORTUNATELY, the break got semi-scuppered by his constant tapping at your window and your constant opening of it to 'let him in'. All the pair of you did, really, was change the interactional venue. So in the end, it wasn't long enough to withstand that continued interaction and render it negligible or negateable overall.

In fact, I don't see that much power-bid vying and struggling. What I see is both of you trying to find positions wherein you're safest from incoming missiles from the other. If you got 'too close-up' to each other, you wouldn't even be CAPABLE of throwing missiles (picture it!) because the only place to throw them would be over each other's shoulders to nowhere land. Yes - affection and sex.

**********

I expect you *both* want peaceful respite and more zeds and laughter. But that's a good sign! Think about it! It means you're running out of steam...getting BORED OF IT ALL, all the fighting, disagreeing, being nervous around one another... Thinking you want to CHUCK each other is a mis-reading coupled with impatience, wanting to be out of this phase now-now-now.

Well - do, then! Or don't.

Is 'the baby' more than halfway down the birth canal? Would putting a stop to the process be foolish for throwing away all your good work so far? Bear in mind you'll probably both just end up in this same part of the path BUT WITH SOMEONE ELSE. So where would be the point? Keep pushing, surely? BUT ADD SOME PETHADINE!!!

Fun. New elements in your routines.

So your instincts (which now have a clearer path to your conscious for having been categorised and put in pending files) - for getting out into the sun and fresh air and frollicking in the fields - are spot-on and very sensible. As are, less talk and talking about it, more action. After all, a change in routine daily circumstance (like getting a job) can work wonders for altering outlook and feelings... even to the point where a lot of previous so-called problems or offshoot symtoms - POOF! - seem to vanish into thin air.

Some people suffer from S.A.D. and don't even realise it, blaming it on a partner-partner lack of suitability. It's not the whole problem but it can and does play a part. Hence when Spring and Summer kick in - so (back) does the love and romance.

You're slow, Nana. But you *are* bloody thorough... (like I said before). Thorough means you don't ever have to go back and do bits again.

So - fine - KEEP your emergency exit lit (it'll take off a lot of pressure) - be it Over! or Second Time-Out Time. But keep it under your hat so as not to panic him and start the worst up all over again. Consider him on extended probation.

**************

Basically, you've had enough aggro, now, the two of you, for the vibrations to have knocked off your rose-tinted glasses. Again, that's another part of the phase (he'll look and sound gorgeous and sweet again, don't you worry - as will you). It's better that you cease seeing each other as each other's salvation-on-legs, anyway. Time to lessen the height of the pedestals you've each had the other sat on. He's a w**ker, you're a b**ch, blah-blah....so is everyone.... now let's see if you can together aspire to ACTUAL heights, not ones just in your heads cooked up by libido and hope juices. You can't get real with each other, anyway, until you've both dared present your real selves. INNIT.

And he might have plenty of respect for you (he did during the separation, remember?...and don't think a separation automatically makes every man show it) but have felt too on the defensive to GIVE it to you. Or he might never have been taught respect so has to learn it quick-sharpish. Chemistry says he has to. (I repeat, if you two weren't a potentially power-force couple underneath all this crud, no WAY would you have stuck together through it all by now. Simply not liking undergoing drastic life change isn't enough to stop bad or 'off' matches from splitting up).

**************

No, I DO believe he's never the instigator of emotional talks (unless really has to) or makes silly excuses and fob-offs or tries to dismissively pass the buck to the "typical female" stereotype when you do - EEZAMAAAAAN! (- see what I did there? ;-D) But it's true, you do have different ways of dealing with things that to the other gender seem strange and render the whole case to that of "bloody foreigners!".

**************

Example of 'over-sensitive':

Him: ""this is the last time, next time we r taking the plane""

Improved you: [said dryly] "Can't. My fear of flying, remember? Still, at least I've got great t*ts [cheeky, patronising wink]. Stare at them instead, that'll cheer you up."

Would that have been so hard?

I don't think he's even THINKING about what he's saying or the way he's saying it in terms of how it could be upsetting to you. He's just a venter who looks for pressure-relieving ideas in his mind and self-soothes by saying them out loud. THOUGHT - BLURT (whoops). He's still "clompy" from a sensitive woman's perspective. And you still need to toughen up a bit. (Shame you didn't have a brother or a rufty-tufty one... might have pre-numbed you a bit. Same for him with 'sister'.)

**************

However, there indeed is still the issue of A JOB. "but that didnt mean that i gave u the permission to put me in the possition to ask u to

get started.." Correct. Not his mum. Not even *her* job (were she alive) at his age. *His*.

In fact, the whole of your first post 'speech' transcript was impressively articulate and issue-identificatory, I thought. However, are you possibly taking what are fleeting moods of his as if they're permanent attitudes and behaviour in WITH those that definitely are? (Just checking.)

***************************************************************************************************************************************************

I'll have to read the second post and his response a bit later. Don't post anything...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 9 2016 at 20:21
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Er... "settles to be scored". Other way around, LOL.)
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 10 2016 at 03:14
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Girlfriend hat on, and here we go...)

He can certainly talk the talk, Nana. But as for walk the walk? That we have yet to see. Therefore, until we *do* see, his oh-so insightful-sounding words all just amount to blah-blah-blah-blah-blaaaaaaaah.

This irritated me: "made me angry with women, and my mom too, and made me have a bad view upen them. I am sorry for any of this being let out on you."

...for its deluded-ness. We only just recently saw for *ourselves* how "lovely" his dad is - an highly revealing snapshot too easy to extrapolate from. Hadn't seen his son for effing ages yet what does he do after only 'five' flippin' minutes of his being back? Threatens to boot him out, all because they had a tete-a-tete. What type of man does that?

Nice bloke, yeah. So if - the usual scenario - his mum was left riddled with second-hand or byproductive issues, by then so ground down she had too little patience and tolerance or proper time and energy for Hans, i.e. was basically too busy tending to her own pressing wounds to be Super Mum - then whose fault was that? What - he thinks that was her natural self and that she should have been super-human enough to shelve everything she'd been through from being married to Husband Of The Year, to the extent where it didn't affect her or even show on the outside? Your boyfriend needs someone to teach him how to think a lot more extensively, Nana. He wouldn't *have* this defensive-aggressive streak in him if it hadn't been for his dad's persistently shoddy treatment of her.

He's still doing that 'kid of acrimonious divorce' thing of "having to" allocate his dad a Whipping Boy, specifically, his mum (now in memoriam) - basically directing his resentment where it's safer to...all towards her - so that he can have an at least part-way normal relationship with his solely remaining parent without fear of his rage at his dad unleashing itself at some uncontrollable point. So she's the safer target. I.e. *easier* target.

Not fair. She'd already *had* one pillock making her life stressily miserable; didn't need his mini-me doing it too and compounding it. No *wonder* they clashed while he was living with her... she thought she'd got away from her husband and could put it all behind her...and then suddenly she finds she's almost still living with him, in nigh-on miniature form. Ach!...don't get me started.

But anyway... If he lacks the insight into that kind of elementary 'conundrum' then I can only presume that that up there is mostly him parroting the things he's heard YOU say to him. Is that right? Well, that makes the above nothing but an appeasement exercise in his usual bid - when he can see he's headed for real trouble again - to quickly revert to Servant position.

But - never mind 'shouldn't let it out on you'. It should be in there in the first place TO be let out on!

*sigh* Oh dear. I really do think he should get his a*se back to counselling if at his age he's still stuck in teenage boy thinking whenever there's anything emotional on the table. Or IS he? For all I know it's just the sound package he presents *you* with in these moments - maybe because he hopes it'll trigger your maternal instinct so prevalently as to switch your intelligence off as you get shunted into being consumed with feeling sorry for the 'poor bubbie'. DOES that tend to work on you (or used to)?

But - so - there we have it. It's *not* just emotionally typically clumsy-boy clompiness. It's repressed anger. And, by just being a woman - you unwittingly and unavoidably trigger it. And 'there we have it' part deux: he really *doesn't* think before he acts or blurts out something stupid and hurtful. He's at times like a hi-bounce ball, having been thrown way-back-when, still, more than not, richocheting all over the shop. So inevitably, with you being stood around him most of the time, you unavoidably get in its way and end up whacked.

What IS the ratio these days since he returned after your separation-ette, Nana, between lovely times and crap/hurtful times as a percentage overall? I can't judge while you're so obviously in the aftermath of recent negativity, I need a more objective reading.

Also - the warm bread thing: had you KNOWN he'd been baking the bread at the point where you tried to get him to sit down and talk? And if not, did he WARN you before you got into it that he'd have to pause the conversation at some point to go get it? Or say, 'Well, can you just wait a few minutes before we start'? Or was it just a case of 'Can we talk? / Sure! / talk-talk-talk-talk- / Gotta go get the bread while it's hot!' ?

No, he *isn't* really, quote, trying his best to be there for you, Nana. Can't. Got too much of his OWN stuff still to sort out. That's been the whole running theme since first you came on here. Someone should point out to him that what's going on here is [wait for it] EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING DOWN WHEN HE WAS THE ONE WANTING *HIS MUM'S* GREATER ATTENTIVENESS! How-ZAT for ironic, Alanis! HE'S IN HIS MUM'S OLD SHOES! So - what - now you're supposed to develop a bad attitude towards all men "because", which you then take out on your next boyfriend?...thereby replicating HANS?....after which, your poor, put-upon ex-boyfriend comes away with a bad attitude towards all women "because"....in a box in a box in a putrid box?

That's how it works, you know.

Point it out. Put his emotional iQ up a couple of notches, go on... consider it his early birthday pressie. ;-)

He is NOT a victim of his own past. The point of reaching adulthood is that (instead of sitting around, whinging how your parents ucked you up) you take stock of yourself, possibly measuring yourself against other people if that's easiest/quickest, SEE that you have a rearing/emotional tutoring deficit, ACKNOWLEDGE that you now are the only adult in your immediate vicinity, and conclude, 'Well, I'd better just get busy finishing it off meself, then!'. Everyone is, after all, supposed to be the product *upgrade* of the two units that produced them. SO DAMN WELL ACT LIKE IT! (Again, don't get me started.)

Well, anyway, I can see why you told him he spends too much time playing the victim.

And then there's this: You couldn't sleep...but I could so - "I'm alright, Jack/Scr*w you"...Zzzzzzzzzz. Is that gentlemanly or protector-like? I have to be honest.... Mr S wouldn't ever do that. If I couldn't sleep because I was too uncomfy due to lack of room - he'd either sleep standing up or force himself to stay awake with me. Do I think Mr S at Hans's age would have done that? Errrrrrm... - YES, actually! So tell me: would Hans have done that in the first few months of his moving in?

I'll tell you when Mr S *wouldn't* do that (as in, past tense): if he'd been post-fight resentful. How long after your last fight or bicker was that train journey?

*************

Now for a huge positive:

LOOK AT THE LENGTH OF HIS RESPONSE, I.E. LOOK AT THE SIZE OF HIS EFFORT! GARGANTUAN! (for a man) Sure, some of it's anywhere between self-justificatory and -exonerative PR. But not all of it. And anyway, the observation and its meaning still stands, considering some men might have replied with only this: "Sorry, luv. Don't mean to. I do try. But I can't help it. PS: What's for supper?" (Answer: your b*lls, roasted, on a plate with fava beans and a nice Chianti, SSSSSSSSsspsspssp!)

*************

The half-and-half:

"I am sorry if that doesn't add up to your image of how a man is suppose to be, but this took a very large toll on me, moving here, and i have been trying very hard.. I know i failed, but that doesn't mean i didnt try."

First part - fair enough. Latter half - FAAAAAAACKOOOOOOOORFF (you're right, it *is* necessary!). How hard IS it to be that charming gentleman on the train or to think before you speak? If he were doing that sort of thing as a matter of course but not doing enough housework, that at least could count as 'upside cancels out downside'. How hard, when you're with someone you value and wouldn't wish to keep feeling neglected in case it led to you lo- AH.... He doesn't believe he could lose you.

Why doesn't he believe he could ever really lose you, Nana? Are you taking your firm foot up too soon, still, followed that very night by giving him choccie bars? Or is it the opposite? Are you so overly often p*ssed-off with him to the point where he's constantly got frustration and resentment in him?

*******************

"Then did the german course, so that i could get a job in the future. It's not about me being lazy, i do want a job, badly, but i am also scared, as i told you alot of times. "

Scared of WHAT? Spiders? Or did *you* tell him he's scared of getting a job and he's latched onto it for how it works as an excuse? Again - is he just spouting things you've told him? Nervousness or not, I'd have thought by now, with you having made it clear what a concern to you it is, his not having tried to secure work (in terms of whether you should continue investing in this relationship), he'd be more scared of *not* getting a job (diff/all the diff).

Regardless, I'm afraid he might have 'wet himself': german course, so that I ***could*** get a job ***in the future***.

Compare: ...german course, so that I can get a job at the end of it/afterwards.

Is this just a case of foreign-speaker semantics, Nana, do you think? Or an unawares admission that he indeed *is* trying to use your hospitality that little bit too protractedly as some sort of respite period come time-out from life and its usual masculine demands and responsibilities?

************

"I am keeping this household clean. I make sure that there is food to eat, that it's clean, that we bring our clothes, that i fix broken stuff, put up new stuff. Alot of this to ease your day, and for it to work for us, and for us to enjoy it. Its not fair that you say that i dont. There has been a couple of times where i have had alot to do a day. I got groceries, i cleaned some of it, i prepped food, i showered, shaved etc (to be delicious for you) and went to get you, so i didnt fully have time to get maybe some of the dishes, but that doesn't equal me not keeping this clean for us, because i do.."

Blah-blah-blah, let's boil it down (correct it for me where necessary): Whole day's work:

- housework (kept on top of by doing it daily): 1hr max?

- food shopping: 2hrs? (or less if he's not 'getting all of the dishes'?)

- food (er) hoovering: 0

- 'bringing clothes' (in? from the balcony?...presumably just folding, not ironing?): 15 mins.

- fixing 'broken stuff' (what's that - once per month?): 10 mins averaged-out per day.

- putting up 'new stuff' (a shelf? ditto the above?): 10 mins

- prepping that night's supper: 15 mins

- cooking it: 45 mins max (he's a chef so that's probably a bit generous)

- clearing away and tidying kitchen: 15 mins

- showering, shaving (anavinaw*nk): who knows?! 30 mins?

- going to get you: hour there and back max?

- german studies (probably was 3hrs per day back when; now probably less, say..) 1hr.

Sub Total: 6hrs, 35mins.

How many hours from door-to-door is your own working day, Nana? If he got up the same time as you (8am?), his 'working day' would finish at about 2pm.

HE'S PLAYING 'PUTER GAMES! Or getting up at Noon/1pm. Or either/or, depending.

Anyway, if he *were* doing his fullest bit THEN YOU WOULDN'T (UP THERE) BE COMPLAINING HE WASN'T (duuh?). Or does he think that's just your favourite game - complaining?

Yep. Bad work ethic. Because he's in respite, all at the total expense and courtesy oooooooof... Hotel Nana.

'Delicious for you'. What is he - a gigalo? *You're* supposed to be the relationship peacock, not him.

"but that doesn't equal me not keeping this clean for us, because i do.."

Why the dot-dot-dot. What did his inner honest animal want to say that his conscious liar censored?

And again: "I am sorry about the bubble, i am very in my head here, and it makes it a bit hard for me.." ?

I know what this one is: "I need it from you too.. Even tho i am a man." It's this: 'I need it from you too [although, I probably shouldn't, what with the fact I'm supposed to be the Tarzan] even though I [technically] am the man'.

This unavoidable role-reversals situation is serving him a little too well, methinks. And yet HE was the one supposedly keen to get you to move to HIS territory not so long ago. So what would the situation have been like there, I wonder? The pair of you on the Dole?

************

It does *not* make him "your parent" if he cleans up after you as well as himself when he is the only one of the pair of you who is NOT GOING OUT TO WORK EVERY DAY. Nor does it make you his if he 'stops to ask you for directions' (that's just immature pride).

Equal and independent, pff. YOU'RE not independent, are you, Nana! Because you've got this adoptive son round your ankles, costing you your potential savings! How's that equal? What b*llshit.

"If i were to take this litterally, i look very bad in your eyes. I am a person who doesn't wanna work, who only thinks about himself, who doesn't give a shit about you, who doesn't take care of himself or is able to bring anything good to the table. And that is not true."

Yes you do. And not just in hers. Yes you are (so far), yes you do (most of the time), yes you don't (some/too much of the time), absolutely you don't - SHE DOES!, no you're *not* able (and what you are able is too little in comparison). Yes it is. GROW UP!

*************

That's it in a nutshell, Nana: grow up (him).

I'm glad you didn't do the 'whyy are you beeeing meean to meee' and instead did the 'shape up, start being impressive, or ship out, bucko'. Because that up there of his could just be his stock type of self-defending response, meaning, once it's actually sunk in, he MIGHT suddenly start changing at least some of his ways (as a start). Give it a week to see.

Meanwhile, back again at the ranch (sauce):

"And i can feel on myself, that doing a kitchen job like those i did in the past, is not gonna be good for me at the moment. Its not about being lazy, its a bout having wisdom in this field, and knowing what is actually going on."

Not good for you WHY? Note he conveniently doesn't say. Has he explained why to your face? Or is it top-secret, insider knowledge only? (pffff)

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

"The thing with showing love, i need that, in order to show that too.. I've been giving everything i have regarding showing the love in the start, and i didnt get any back.. It scared me alot, and made me be very careful, as in what i give. I need it from you too.. Even tho i am a man."

Oh, EFF OFF!!! You show me yours an' I'll show you miiine, mew-mew-mew... All that really translates to is this: gimmie perks for too little work. Answer: CLANGGGG! [frying pan now head-shaped]

(Nana, do I REALLY have to keep reading this tripe? What are ya - a sadist?)

Actually - put that 'gargantuan' comment on ice for a mo and tell me - what time of day did he write this? Did he answer so extensively because he had little else to do and/or because it was more interesting than his chore list? What was the house like once you got home?

*****************************************

Now to your bit:

LOL - we've responded practically the same, look! But what should THAT tell him! I'll tell you what it tells *me*: that you're nobody's fool. But you *are* a little too locked-in, now, thanks to- not duping but you ASSUMING he'd 'be der man', meaning, dumping or calling another separation (this time with communication rate embargoes) is going to hurt. Not as much as if you hadn't had all this time to get so incredibly effed off. But, still...

However, saying that:

"I do get the thing with the respect, and i am gonna try even harder.

Like Really"

That last line sounds genuine. If it is, then it's because of the 'no more nonsense!' tone of your own letter (tick, tick, tick!!!).

Maybe you've given him the kick up the jacksie he so needed, finally?

*******************

*******************

Conclusion: Hotel Nana....Try-it-on merchant....Tried it on too far = Nana ceases to find him quite so cute or 'wickle' and shows him she finally - THIS TIME, ACTUALLY - means business now.

Full marks to you, missus. PRRRRTH! and HMMM.. to him in equal measure. But let's watch that space.

How long is this probation period of his, by the way? What's his deadline for getting *even a tiny weeny* job as some gesture of faith as a sign of things to come, at least?

Actually, I've changed my mind about something. I don't think it IS just you he parrots. I think I can hear his mum in there at times. Yup... Listened. Waited. Hoped. Waited. Disappointed. Realised. Cottoned-on. Stored. Now regurgitated. That was *her* excuse style: Yes, yes, you're right, I know, I'm a terrible person, it's just that - poor me... But I will... [then nothing or too little changes].

Try It On merchant. Worth a try (or five). If it fails/starts to wear out - THEN get off your bum. So "prrrrth!" to 'misunderstanding' and 'miscommunication' and so-called cluelessness. He could have been doing "Like Really" flippin' MONTHS ago.

Glad you've toughened up. :-) What is it I always say? People treat you only as badly as you LET THEM. So don't let them. Berbom. It's not always anything personal, it's usually more them hurting themselves just *through* you (usually because they can't/don't dare bash their bully so it's got to go *somewhere*). But unless they've asked outwardly and nicely and politely beforehand for your help (to remove the need to act out all over you in the first place) - "NO (fuque off)".

Say it with me, Nana (your new mantra): "I AIN'T 'AVIN' IT! EITHER P*SS OR GET OFF THE POT!"

If he doesn't start 'peeing' fairly soon I'll be changing his name to Pansy.

....Now inject the Summer fun bits so he's got no more 'poor, depressed me' excuses and so that *you* feel better regardless. He can carry your handbag. ;-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 10 2016 at 12:24
Member since: 27 January 2016
soulmate, before i respond, he was at the job center because he is considering finishing his education here over the job center (they can fund u when u r older then normal apprentices) but the money he would get during the educations is like 500-600€..and before he can do that, they want them to do another german class because he would have to go to school 2 a week..

im not quite sure how i feel about that..because, yes, i want him to have a diploma from the chefs school which would make everything just sooo much easier in the future and i would be happy for him if he would have that accomplishment. he keeps saying all these things like it would be good for him and this and that and im just thinking wait a sec(!) he knows (!) that this job was just a temporary thing (3-4 years) until im settle enough and have some extra money to study myself (psychology/psychotherapy)..and u can imagine that i need some cash for that..

and u keep mentioning savings..well there r no savings there is a big minus on my account now and i also told him, that i would like us (as we discussed) to get rid of the minus but i also need "his" money for it too..

i told him that there has to come more money in..i mean what the hell..is he really looking for the most comfortable way to "get settled" here? r u kidding me? i said to him, we have to make a plan and if it all adds up then i would support all of that..

i could punsh him..all the time..non stop..someone seriously has to punch some sense into him...

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 10 2016 at 13:37
Member since: 27 January 2016
ok, so to your first post:

"Perversely enough, then, a tough road needn't be a sign that you're incompatible. It can be because you *are* compatible. (Sense?)"

-yeah, sure and u pointing that out to me made me a bit "sweeter" towards and more optimistic.

***************************

"Some people suffer from S.A.D. and don't even realise it, blaming it on a partner-partner lack of suitability. It's not the whole problem but it can and does play a part. Hence when Spring and Summer kick in - so (back) does the love and romance"

-very likely, my therapist said that i have some tendencies..i will figure something out with the lighttherapy(?)..id like to do it :) oh and btw, he would too, like u know, we r very similar and we (bf and i) think that we both might have it

***************************

"Example of 'over-sensitive':

Him: ""this is the last time, next time we r taking the plane""

Improved you: [said dryly] "Can't. My fear of flying, remember? Still, at least I've got great t*ts [cheeky, patronising wink]. Stare at them instead, that'll cheer you up."

Would that have been so hard?

I don't think he's even THINKING about what he's saying or the way he's saying it in terms of how it could be upsetting to you. He's just a venter who looks for pressure-relieving ideas in his mind and self-soothes by saying them out loud. THOUGHT - BLURT (whoops). He's still "clompy" from a sensitive woman's perspective. And you still need to toughen up a bit. (Shame you didn't have a brother or a rufty-tufty one... might have pre-numbed you a bit. Same for him with 'sister'.) "

-no not hard, and yes need to toughen up a lot.. but i started, i really did..

**************************

"In fact, the whole of your first post 'speech' transcript was impressively articulate and issue-identificatory, I thought. However, are you possibly taking what are fleeting moods of his as if they're permanent attitudes and behaviour in WITH those that definitely are? (Just checking.)"

-could be..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 10 2016 at 16:15
Member since: 19 August 2014
"soulmate, before i respond, he was at the job center because he is considering finishing his education here over the job center (they can fund u when u r older then normal apprentices) but the money he would get during the educations is like 500-600€..and before he can do that, they want them to do another german class because he would have to go to school 2 a week..

im not quite sure how i feel about that..because, yes, i want him to have a diploma from the chefs school which would make everything just sooo much easier in the future and i would be happy for him if he would have that accomplishment. he keeps saying all these things like it would be good for him and this and that and im just thinking wait a sec(!) he knows (!) that this job was just a temporary thing (3-4 years) until im settle enough and have some extra money to study myself (psychology/psychotherapy)..and u can imagine that i need some cash for that..

and u keep mentioning savings..well there r no savings there is a big minus on my account now and i also told him, that i would like us (as we discussed) to get rid of the minus but i also need "his" money for it too..

i told him that there has to come more money in..i mean what the hell..is he really looking for the most comfortable way to "get settled" here? r u kidding me? i said to him, we have to make a plan and if it all adds up then i would support all of that..

i could punsh him..all the time..non stop..someone seriously has to punch some sense into him..."

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Considering finishing his education? WTF?

EN OH SPELLS NO!, would be my own reaction. He can't AFFORD to finish his education - certainly not at YOUR single-handed expense both fiscal and self-furthering/enhancive! Don't you dare do it, Nana! He's supposed to be finally finding a job to cover the cost of his OWN month-in-month-out living expenses AT LEAST - AND ideally in back-payment of what he's cost you so far (if he's got any decency!) and yet - here here is, now all of a sudden declaring that he wants to take this untenable situation and DRAG IT OUT FOR EVEN LONGER? YEARS LONGER?! I.e. exacerbate it instead of alleviate it? WTF?

Typical extract from the dumped and seriously disillusioned (duped and used!) wife or wife-figure: "...and then, after having already single-handedly supported him financially all the way through his college, I basically made it possible for him to then study and qualify as a lawyer by sweating my butt off at work every day for x whole years plus all the Overtime going, and THEN, virtually five minutes after his having passed the bar, HE AND HIS NEWLY BIG, FAT SALARY AND SHINY COMPANY SPORTS CAR LEFT ME FOR SOME OTHER WOMAN HE'D MET AT HIS NEW WORKPLACE!".

That he'd even MENTION such an idea at a time like this when knowing you're *already* in the Red is OUTRAGEOUS! He's taking the p*ss, surely?! What is this? I *am* trying but you're the one who keeps slamming down all my ideas so I *can't* work?

I am now getting serious Gigalo whiffs. Or, like I say, is this just him wanting to be SEEN by you to be "trying" to find a way to bring in some proper earnings in the 'foreseeable' future and/or to get to basically remain receiving the Dole for longer but with you now off his back because he is, quote, at least TRYING?

It's called, GO SEE THE LOCAL MACDONALD'S OR BISTRO MANAGER TO GET A JOB AS GRILL CHEF OR WHATEVER (AND THEN LOOK AT DOING NIGHT-CLASSES COME THE END OF EACH SHIFT)! Why not? Does he even NEED a bigger salary than that considering he doesn't even have rent, bills, provisions, etc. costs to 'do or die' meet at this juncture lest he get evicted and find himself homeless, and could easily work his way fairly rapidly up or after a decent period switch to a more demanding and better-paying job, and when what you really need to see at this precise point is just a willingness to do some hard graft for an effing change?!

You were NOT put on this earth to hand your own nice-life potential over to someone else who, unlike you, *didn't* bother paying attention at school and thinks he can use you like some human ladder to climb to success via (as pushes you deeper and deeper into the mud as he climbs higher and higher)! Beggars can't be choosers, it's called!

Nana, do you know for an indisputable fact that he even *was* a chef back in Denmark? Or even held down a full-time job?...and for longer than a few months at a time?

Never mind the dark-to-light ratio... The other way to tell is to just stand back (do it now - you're in the zone), take a hard, cold look at your lot and ask yourself, 'Has this man/this relationship been steadily, bit-by-bit ENHANCING my life, vitality, energy levels, practical/financial set-up,....just overall welfare and situation... or is he the one rising like a phoenix from the ashes while I myself steadily *morph into* said ashes?'.

What decides whether such a "consideration" of his is a laudible intention and effort or not is the backdrop in which it's made. You're in the Red already and, unless he starts bringing in a lot more than what was supposed to be a short-term stop-gap of 5-600 Euros (let's say 6) - divided by 4.3 = E139.50 per week *before* daily expenses like travel costs to and from the Job Centre, lunchtime sandwiches & drink, pints in the pub afterwards with co-students ("gotta be sociable, haven't you?")....what does that leave per week to (presumably) hand straight over to you, the financial director?

How much in total does he already cost to 'run' per calendar month - have you sat down and worked it out yet?

Pff.

I'd be saying, 'SORRY, Hansy-Pansy, but I'm afraid I can no longer continue to fund your entire life as well as my own or else what'll be next to get sucked dry is my 'college fund' ergo my chance at having a comfortable future and comfortable and secure retirement. YES, you infer this is because you want to claw your way to a position of eventual breadwinner of this relationship, but you can hardly blame me at this point for having too little faith to dare to basically take such a huge risk on someone who isn't even my HUSBAND, just my boyfriend - at that, someone who has for 9(?) months been presenting excuse after excuse about why he can't just go and get "A" JOB in order to at least PROVE willingness to pay his way - whom, for all I know, when lacking any sort of guarantee, could end up just abandoning me at any future point and leaving me stood holding the by-then mile-long bill. So that, I'm afraid, just means that if you WANT to re-train so that you can get to pick and choose over what job you get, because any old job, even Postman, is somehow beneath you - and you getting things just how you like them apparently being far more important to you than getting me out of this finances-halved, pressure situation, - then... you're going to have to do it in your OWN time at your OWN expense....like a night-class every day AFTER WORK. What a SHAME, then, that I've had to all this time be nagging you to get off your lazy bum (which hasn't made a jot of difference ANYWAY, save for excuses followed by this 'great brainwave' of yours that isn't even a solid Gold definite to begin with) or my answer might have been a whole lot different!'

And where's him suggesting that following each day at 'school', he could hop-skip-jump over to the nearest pub to do a barman's shift so as to at least add a top-up to that pithy amount/week? Has that not occurred to him yet?

Is he somehow unaware that SOME men (low earners with kids and a wife to feed) hold down TWO jobs? Even THREE?

*YOU* want to punch him?! I'm not even INTERESTED in the emotional side and its details any more. Not until you tell me whether this "brilliant idea" of his came to fruition before OR AFTER you sent him that above email of yours? (It'd better be 'before' because I'm already fit to spit in disgust!)

***********

He may *well* be "scared". He may *well* need more time in which to adapt and get better at the lingo. He may *well* be in emotionally bad shape and needing a nice, long 'nap' as well as a victim of S.A.D. But the circumstances in which he's in and which he helped create mean HE CAN'T AFFORD THOSE LUXURIES, BER....BOM! And anyway, what about you? Couldn't *you* do with a nice little holiday from grown-up life and it's constant demands and pressures? I know I and Mr S could....

Pffff. Grow up, Pansy.

***********

Know what I think now? I think he was *not* a chef in Denmark. I think he got a job IN A KITCHEN or was a pot man or barman in a bar-bistro and managed to pick up a lot of knowledge for knowing HOW TO COOK. That would explain completely his constant delay tactics and this need to 're-' or 'cross-train' b*llocks, as makes sense of that comment about only his knowing how the industry works. Yeah, it's called, back in my own more tin-pot country or because there I know how to get around its systems, you aren't asked to flash your formal qualification before you're let in the door and let loose on paying customers.

Feeling a click? He's not going to be 're-training' due to national differences or 'training to a higher level'. He's JUST TRAINING. To become an actual (starter) chef. But has got too much pride to, even long before today, just come out with it straight and say so.

That's what I think. But what do you think?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 10 2016 at 16:31
Member since: 27 January 2016
hope its ok, that im just taking in the info and answering question when u r asking them. if i dont agree with something or have another opinion, im going to tell u :)

so, the 2. post:

first of all, yes he is parroting me(a bit)( but the thing is, because u asked if he is really just repeating me, no he figured a lot out by himself) and his mom (a lot), his mom didnt have an easy life btw, she was abused as a kid and ended up being an alcoholic some years after the divorce, including a lot of fears and it being so bad that she didnt leave the house for months and months..and so on..

"*sigh* Oh dear. I really do think he should get his a*se back to counselling if at his age he's still stuck in teenage boy thinking whenever there's anything emotional on the table. Or IS he? For all I know it's just the sound package he presents *you* with in these moments - maybe because he hopes it'll trigger your maternal instinct so prevalently as to switch your intelligence off as you get shunted into being consumed with feeling sorry for the 'poor bubbie'. DOES that tend to work on you (or used to)?"

-he does and they also called and asked if he is going to continue with it, because he didnt make an appointment in a long time, he promised he would call and do it when we come back, guess what, didnt happen..and yes, it does somehow work that way, or lets say worked better for him in the PAST..

ps. just asked him if he called (since we came back last week) and he didnt, but what he did is telling me that he finds it offending that im asking about stuff "all the time" i just said "trust, but verify ;) " and then i said its a normal question since he has a lot to say and promise, so im just following up on that and i dont see a bug deal in doing that. what he said then was:

"i know, but all the time with everything..makes me feel like i cant trust my own judgment, because i have to be wary about what u think"

he should get over it..

*********************

"What IS the ratio these days since he returned after your separation-ette, Nana, between lovely times and crap/hurtful times as a percentage overall? I can't judge while you're so obviously in the aftermath of recent negativity, I need a more objective reading. "

-well i dont know tbh..i mean we r both in the defensive mode all the time i guess:

simply said "give me first and then i will give u". period. and then when something is up like there is a misunderstanding we get annoyed and passive aggressive or when he does somthing for me i kiss him and "give him some love" but thats it more or less, im waiting for change so its more or less "paused" for me. and he is waiting for me to show "how much im in love i am " so that he can show it. but thats it..we r not really fighting anymore (since the vacay) because im not in the mood for that to be honest and he is trying to be romantical and incourage sex but ive been so stressed (and u know what?? he saw how stressed i was and mentioned it and said how bad he felt for me, in a genuine way, soo ive got that going for me *eyeroll*) but im not interested in sex right now because well a lot of the stuff u mentioned in that 2nd post..

our days look like this:

i get up and kiss him goodbye, he says "love u bye".then im at work while he sleeps till 10-10:30. then he writes me and we chat every now and then mostly about whats gonna be for dinner, how stressy it is at work and what he is doing. then i go home and im super tired and just wanna lie in bed and watch telly, doesnt happen tho, because either he wants some attention (which i understandin, because he isnt really seeing anyone) or because he wants some help with the food (he says he wants to spend some time with me-well i just think that he feels offended when i come home and say no (which i rarely do) because i could help him if im home too..)then i do start watching telly and he maybe plays some games, we eat, and then at some point he starts wanting attention a lot and talkes to me while im watching some series online, which i start pausing because i feel bad..which i shouldnt because he doesnt feel bad either..i really have to toughen up there too..well however yesterday for example he asked me if we r going to have sex ("hahaha right") and i said "well, thats romantic" and he said "we didnt have sex in a while, so i was trying to initiate. i dont want us going to bed or u going to bed early without us having sex" and i was just like "maybe u should think about a different way to approach me" and "lets do it spontaniously, huh, because this isnt really romantic what so ever". we didnt have sex. and i think he was mad about that, but sorry not my fault..

so thats basically it for the moment, i do have to admit that im a bit irritaded right now and the last days and not really wanting to compromise, especially after hearing that he doesnt wanna work but he is thinking about a german class..doesnt he know, that in order to grow some b*lls, he needs to actually be working and contributing?..no,huh?..

"Scared of WHAT? Spiders? Or did *you* tell him he's scared of getting a job and he's latched onto it for how it works as an excuse? Again - is he just spouting things you've told him? "

-scared of failure (u remember the job he had to quit because he was working 80h a week in the beginning?)..i didnt say that to him, he knows, he is just being very scared right now..soulmate, his confidence is gone, fully, thats why i understand somehow, but the thing is he just has to jump into the cold water, im sorry, but he does, and now he is looking for a lake with lukewarm water so he doesnt get a cold afterwards..right? RIGHT!

" Or an unawares admission that he indeed *is* trying to use your hospitality that little bit too protractedly as some sort of respite period come time-out from life and its usual masculine demands and responsibilities? "

-very much possible..

"This unavoidable role-reversals situation is serving him a little too well, methinks. And yet HE was the one supposedly keen to get you to move to HIS territory not so long ago. So what would the situation have been like there, I wonder? The pair of you on the Dole? "

-he left the job he had for me when he came here..and yes, it is serving him pretty well right now..

"I'm glad you didn't do the 'whyy are you beeeing meean to meee' and instead did the 'shape up, start being impressive, or ship out, bucko'. Because that up there of his could just be his stock type of self-defending response, meaning, once it's actually sunk in, he MIGHT suddenly start changing at least some of his ways (as a start). Give it a week to see. "

-a week? hahah ok.. im gonna..( u can see how extremly irritated/annoyed i am right now..sry..)

"Actually - put that 'gargantuan' comment on ice for a mo and tell me - what time of day did he write this? Did he answer so extensively because he had little else to do and/or because it was more interesting than his chore list? What was the house like once you got home? "

-i think he answered like that because he was sensing that im super mad (i think he also said it that im right with a lot but that i am mad and also being mean and that one or two things he wouldnt have written like that, if he was me..*whaaaat ever my friend*)and starting to get really annoyed, basically he got scared?or semi scared?

"Maybe you've given him the kick up the jacksie he so needed, finally?"

-we will see about that..

"How long is this probation period of his, by the way? What's his deadline for getting *even a tiny weeny* job as some gesture of faith as a sign of things to come, at least? "

-u tell me, now that he wants the german class again...well he did say he would be open to a "once a week job"...insane right?

oh btw i just read your responds, he was a trainee and worked in the kitchen as an apprentice, he quit the education+job to come here..and now whats to take it on again, but like u said WRONG F*CKING TIMING MR!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 10 2016 at 16:59
Member since: 27 January 2016
"*YOU* want to punch him?! I'm not even INTERESTED in the emotional side and its details any more. Not until you tell me whether this "brilliant idea" of his came to fruition before OR AFTER you sent him that above email of yours? (It'd better be 'before' because I'm already fit to spit in disgust!) "

-After.the thing is soulmate, u r going to ask me if im crazy, but i think it was me who started brainstorming and saying, technically u could finish your education at some point too..and apparetnly he liked the idea..hahahaha its getting so ridiculous, im laughing so hard right now..my life looks like an episode of a comedy series right now "boyfriend is waiting for the loophole"

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 10 2016 at 19:59
Member since: 19 August 2014
AFTER. Right! So that's:

1. I can't get my arse in gear re getting a job and I now can't follow up on the Job Centre's limited-window offer of extended "job-seeker/trainer's allowance" because you keep reminding and chasing me up and that's pressure which puts me off. (What utter rot! He was avoiding doing his duty and dragging his feet long before you started chivvying.)

2. I can't show you love and affection (although that doesn't include s*x) because you're not showing it to me first. (Again - rot! What's he trying to tell you - that he's not even man enough to know how to woo a woman like can most normal men? So what does he do if a *real* pan of milk goes off the boil because he's let the gas flame go out? Go sit in the corner of the kitchen sulking and pitying himself?).

3. You said "TECHNICALLY" and "COULD". So WHAT if that's what you said as a mere out-loud brainstorm? I now see that he latched onto it because it would be a GREAT way to not have to do any actual job of work for far longer whilst still getting the Dole!

He's just taking advantage and being highly manipulative and uncooperative, in the process claiming it's far more offensive to be chivvied in response to behaving in ways that demand it, than it is to have had your month-to-month salary HALVED and scope for saving for your future REMOVED (and for far too little perks). Gosh, I wonder what his attitude would be were the positions reversed? No doubt reversed with it!

IT'S ALL FUDGE. All just amounts to, Shan't!...Won't!...Dare you to try to make me! Oh, yes, he definitely thinks you haven't got it in you to end it.

You willing to accept the dare, Nana?

...I mean - okay, YES he wrote such a long response. But now we're establishing it's because he could tell he'd better had. That's not love-based effort, is it. That's a case of, In my interests to.... a very different animal. Plus it was all mostly fudge, *anyway*. So that's, In my interests to GASLIGHT HER ALL OVER AGAIN (go google).

"then im at work while he sleeps till 10-10:30."

What - STILL? How dare he! Does he think you're an *actual* free-of-charge hotel?! Different if all this time he'd been paying you rent *and* doing all the Mon-Fri housework *and* being the official relationship cook *and* doing the odd bit of DIY, etc., but.. Good grief. And you shouldn't have to help him do the supper, EITHER. He should find something ELSE for he and you to bond over, whatever DOESN'T stop you from putting your feet up.

Australian man, in bed: Here, Sheila...!

Aussie woman: Yiss, Bruce?

Man: Dya want the lights on or off, doll?

That's "initiating sex" too! It isn't wooing, though, is it. It's a demand made out of over-entitlement, same as his. What's next - him tripping you up and hitting the ground, face-up, before you do?!

"we didnt have sex. and i think he was mad about that, but sorry not my fault.."

Will you look at the difference between that attitude and the apologetic, hand-wringing one up there nearer the start of this thread! :-)

*************

I've been asking and saying all through this that he appeared to have a sh*t work ethic and, more lately, whether he's a passenger/parasite.

YES HE IS. Or certainly is doing a damn good impression of one. All the way, trying to put it down to resentment (pff). ...Because this isn't all some NEW development in terms of run of behaviour of his, is it. So I'm not surprised your gut instinct won't allow you to fortify or even preserve your dwindling attachment to him by having s*x with him, out of preference to allowing time featuring zero s*x and negligible affection to allow the umbilicus to start to wither and shrivel (with a view to - PLOP! - falling off of its own accord). Not surprised at all. It's called, grieving INSIDE the relationship. That's what you've been lately doing, Nana.

Give it one more week in case, as I say, this is all just his habitual knee-jerk reactivity and ego-posturing talking and acting, and then, if nothing's changed and improved in that week - or two at the most - take on the NEXT decision on that list: whether and when you dump his parasitic a*se so that he could belatedly learn how the grown-up world works at some OTHER poor sucker's expense - which, YES (so don't be sorry), involves one having to face and tackle despite we don't particularly want to and would rather avoid altogether if we could. If we were still 5 years old.

(But it's funny how his confidence hasn't stopped him from basically DEMANDING sex like he's owed it, isn't it? Yeah, funny that.)

Obviously, it's your life and your choice but... that's what I'd be doing, even if just to to see whether the aftermath represented a more effective Separation than the last, semi-scuppered one (which ruination, let's not forget, was down to him). Because he can, after all, if need be, always go home for a month or three (or 6), ruminate over his disgustingly irresponsible attitude, decide to turn over a new leaf, manly-up and ring to tell you and beg for a (what due to said scupperage is actually) second and final chance, can he not. Whether by then you'd even give one single sh*t any more would be another matter (but which I personally, having listened to how you sound this week and noting you couldn't really even be bothered to write up here, seriously doubt).

*************

Are you laughing at one week because you'd rather sling his hook *now*? Fine by me if you are (it's your life, not mine). Oh and - ref ONE DAY per week - the object is contributing financially, not flippin' entertainment.

*************

So he didn't finish his apprenticeship, then; I was to all intents and purposes correct - he's not qualified or NEARLY experienced enough to "be a chef".

PS: "but like u said WRONG F*CKING TIMING MR!". LOL - no, that was definitely you - just now. But - "im laughing so hard right now" - EXCELLENT SIGN. I wasn't, I've been growling out these sentences the whole way (I talk out-loud whilst my fingers follow suit) until you said that. So *now* I am. The reason mainly was because I thought you'd be upset.

****************

I am still sorry for you, though. :-( Maybe he DOES just need more time to gain confidence and grow bored of being a stay-at-home-er. But the finances just don't allow it (wish you'd said sooner that you were going into the Red, btw), even if you had all the patience, understanding and over-generosity in the world. So what can you do? NOTHING. It's all in his hands and his hands are stubbornly too busy (cough!) lathering himself in the shower. So the truthful conclusion of the matter on the existential/spiritual level is this:

Right Person POTENTIAL = Semi-Right Person

Right Place

WRONG TIME.

If those three criteria can't all be Right, it means the person isn't your intended soulmate because they're not up to scratch (given your own calibre, potential and pre-ordained choice of directions (albeit same final destination)). They are just "a" soulmate, a practise run partner....to prime you and toughen you up for ONE OF THE CREAM/CREME from that particular 'compatible genetic pool now spread around the globe' of yours. And when it's a case like this of 'oh so close but sadly not close enough' PLUS you manage to muster the self-discipline and overall mettle to do what you never thought possible and/or always had trouble doing in the past (crap partnerings getting dragged on for far too long before the eventual, overdue Splat!), that rite of passage into true romantic adulthood gets you a life reward....of "THE" ONE, the best soulmate for you (who and what you are/how you tick) ever....and there you have, ALSO, your "deathmate", the person who's going to be lain on your bed with you, cuddling you and holding your hand, as you one day slip away (or vice versa). Happens every....single....time (unless the person stupidly does whatever to fight or avoid it).

He certainly has toughened you up, hasn't he?! :-) You'll raise a glass to him for that, one day.

ALTERNATIVELY! - because we haven't heard The Fat Lady sing yet - this might all be a catalyst (if he reacts by begging on his knees not to lose you from his life forever 'n ever Amen) to... His returning to Denmark (you and he back to long-distance), GETTING his qualification there - and in the process, having to live with his dad and find a way to handle him OR earn enough where he can learn to pay rent and bills in his own bedsit or whatever (- PING-PING-PING! goes his jello with the sudden epiphany)...basically, going away for a spell in life's gym until he is ripped enough to take care of you (and the wee bairns-to-be), whereupon you go, 'Wow, who are you and what have you done with Hansy-Pansy?!'. That can happen and frequently does, too.

You can't lose, whichever way you look at it.

Exciting stuff, really, isn't it, coming to a set of crossroads? :-)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 16 2016 at 01:02
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Hello, "Stacey". Not related to "a man named Sue" are you?)

Nana,

"Eh-HEUGH!"

(Tickly cough. ;-))

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 16 2016 at 09:48
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate!

super stressed..update coming soon!

have a nice day :) !!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 16 2016 at 18:07
Member since: 19 August 2014
Take your time. Again, just quickly wanted to know you were basically okay / still alive / hadn't run off to join the circus, that sort of thing.

You too!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 17 2016 at 07:02
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey GRASSISALWAYSGREENER,

first of all welcome on this page and my thread!

i guess u already noticed that me and my boyfriend did the same crazy thing. and we r still (since september) trying to work things out. its all a work in progress.

i would recommend u to read through my posts, for sure.i know, me and soulmate (the moderator) wrote A LOT, but its worth it! ITS GOLD! :D

i would also suggest/ask that u creat your own (my thread would just get too complicated) and give us more details like for example did she move to the states with a job or school waiting for her in california?or how long u two have been doing this? and so on :)

but what i would like to tell u, because i know how disappointing it is to notice that the authenticity is gone all of a sudden now that the relationship actually was reality, is that we had/have the same problem.What i recently figured out is that its not because "u two arent a match" (thats what i thought atleast when i noticed it with me and my BF) or "the other person is just pretending". for me and my BF it was/is because in this process of him establishing his life in another country and me trying to make him a part of my world so much stress and "overwhlemeness" came up that we lost ourselves. so simple, but very dangerous. i hope u r following, because its really hard not forgetting sometimes that u too still have to have your independent lifes. it sounds easy, but i think we both know how hard that can be.

i dont know if u noticed (for me this happened a lot) u giving in a lot? not really listening to what u want because u want, for example, to make it easier for her? it can be a lot of small things but u can start holding a grudge and it can add up pretty soon. and then all of a sudden "she doesnt understand anymore, not like she used to back in the days when u two used to chat" does that happen? however, this happened to us. when u start giving in so much and stop expressing yourself, REALLY saying whats on your mind, its gonna cause problems!period. the solutions is take your time for yourself and she should be doing the same. she NEEDS to start feeling more independent (very important). its gonna make her start feeling like she has her life back/she fits in and its gonna make her feel more secure.and thats what we want, isnt it?

when u ARE AUTHENTIC then u can have AUTHENTIC talks, if not then not.peroid.so question is: are u? makes sense right? so how do u do that? u try and find yourself, the authentic person. u do what u like. what makes U happy. and u COMMUNICATE that! keep the other person updated! when u feel at ease with yourself then stress is going to disappear more and more (stress=feeling overwhelmed with the other person) and the other person feels it. ACTUALLY, this is important! the other person is always going to feel u not being yourself. so its nice that u not only r going to be more at ease and able to talk authentically yourself, she is going to feel it, which makes her feel better too and improves the realtionship.

hope this helps! like i said if u want to go into more details (and maybe u should) then please make your own thread and the people here (and me) are going to try and help/advise u :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 17 2016 at 17:12
Member since: 19 August 2014
Unregistered user 'Grassisalwaysgreener',

Strikes me as strange that you wouldn't just ask this same said friend those questions. Considering he'd be the one to know, that would be the more logical and less time-consuming route to take, surely?

(Curiouser and curiouser dot com, said Alice dot com.)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 17 2016 at 19:59
Member since: 27 January 2016
u r hunching something, arent u, soulmate? :)
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 20 2016 at 23:08
Member since: 19 August 2014
Who - ME?

*chuckle, titter, chortle*

PS: Where's this update, then, eh?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 21 2016 at 12:08
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soumate,

yeah..the update..really didnt have time to sit down for half an hour or longer and write it..this job im doing is insane rigt now..

well, your last "long" post kinda shocked me a bit tbh..and i also didnt want to decide right away what im going to do(u sounded pretty final about it, but my gut wasnt telling me to do it like that, hope that makes sense?)

since ive always been the kind of person who isnt really balanced and who was thinking "either it works right away or it doesnt at all", ive decided to take more time and actually give him a chance to find himself, be himself..i dont have to run away, like i used to in the past..like u said, i dont have anything to lose right now anyways, AND since i havent been myself either, basically lost myself, not caring about me ( u know how i was..panicing, taking every single word so seriously, especially his nonsense) i owe it to myself, to find me and to actually start feeling myself (u know, this page is my 2. safe place.its kinda self therapeutinc AND id like u to know stuff like this, especially, because u mentioned up there the "Right Person POTENTIAL" that i have and im not quite sure IF im even there, i certainly wasnt the time i wasnt on this forum or a month ago..

but, i mean, i was in this state of mind where i was thinking that if he doesnt step up finally, im going to just end it and i also wasnt talking to him for days there, because i wasnt "havin it" (the nonsense)and was getting bored with fighting and in my eyes he just started looking more and more ridiculous and imature not to mention, the feeling that makes u "sparkle"- basically what made me sparkle was feeling understood and supported.

but then one weekend i think, he started talking to me.after asking 3 times (3 days in a row) whats been going on and me telling him that i really dont feel like talking, i said "say what u have to say, ask what u have to ask". and then we were sitting there for 5-6 hours and just talked. i really felt better, he did too. well, some stuff he really was a bit shocked about for example i told him that he all this months he was here, i didnt really see any of his good characteristics i used to like(love). thats still a bummer for him..which i understand, but "sorry, not sorry"? i mean ive had it..like really. a guy, who didnt really prove himself, who didnt sweep me of my feet after we met, due to his insecurity that showed extremly much with having (the first girlfriend, and her being his soulmate)me, a new country, no stability in a country he didnt know, no job(money) nothing, is expecting me to like, understand and show affection that he didnt earn yet..do u see my problem right now? ofc u do..

i am hoping and not only hoping, but it makes sense to me that when he has a real life here, he is going to be his better self, a person who isnt going to question everything and show that he is considering..but without working on himself (getting his selfworth and self esteem up), that aint happening..yes, this is where the job is important, i know..and thats true, and i said it to him "we cant afford him having 400-500€ a month" but he has been applying like everyone else and just getting "No's". thinking about that, makes me think if he is also losing the will to apply or developing a fear because he had enough rejections here in vienna? i think thats pretty much possible..however, it doesnt make it better all in all that im refusing to sleep with him, because im taking my time "re-doing" our relationship so to say.reason for that is that:

that after the talk he asked me if we could start with a clean sheet.he started applying more and he went to see a school+the funding department(which would give us up to 850€) so to say (long story short). it went well for some days, then on our annyversary we had sex (short, and just because he managed to turn me on for a sec-it wasnt ´"it" tho) and after that i decided that im going to give him this chance and that i am going to wait with the sex until i really feel like having it, so when i see improvements.

he understood it, he knew what i meant with "withholding" it and he got scared i guess so he didnt push me as usual.

i really figured out what was wrong with me the whole time. i wasnt listening to my gut (i think i told u once that i´dont really have a gut feeling) i totally lost it..dont know how else to describe it. it might have also been the S.A.D., but i talked about it with my therapist she said that she thinks that depression isnt something she would diagnose me with, so i basically think that its my selfworth that just got worse and less and from that i was in panic mode the whole time..same goes for boyfriend too tho..thats THE problem..so i started enjoying everything more and more, trying to "find" me through that and the gut feeling and he started getting out of his head now too, its not as effective tho, because he is still at home and waiting the "school" to start.oh and btw, we heard from a friend that he could maybe work a couple of days a week as a "moving guy" i guess, but we r still waiting for the definite answer.

one thing happened tho, which doesnt really bother me as it would have in the past.and thats that (like i told u) we went to some parties on the weekend, which made him feel pretty well. on saturday he didnt really feel confortable because we played activity in german (hm..well guess why he didnt like that) and he was really looking forward to socialising, but that didnt happen. BUT the súnday was great. we went to a party, he was the "grillmeister" he spoke with interesting ppl and we had drinks. and then we were at home and then he wanted to check my phone all of a sudden..jeez..we had such a nice time and felt so good with eachother and then he had to do that..well however, it was a bit offending like u would guessed and i said it. he had that strange attitude like "hahaha, lets see what we have here" basically wanting to bust me, but he didnt know for what.well guess what, last week a male collegue wrote me an sms asking me if i am late again because i was runnging a bit later then usual and the day before i was actually late 1,5h so because he was the only one who had my number he wrote me and i said "no, just getting breakfast" and thats that. 2 sms. period. 10 sec after bf read that he flipped and started calling me a liar because i told him that im not gonna hang put with guys anymore and concentrate on him. it escalated and lng story short(which im still gonna tell u) yesterday when i came back from work he was mad at me. and i didnt give a flying f about that because he was just paranoid and looking for a reason to fight AND with that attitude the same night he more or less held me back from sleeping by the telly being too loud. and then i got angry and told him to leave the bed which he made fun of which made me leave the flat in the middle of the night and then coming back(because, f u dear boyfriend, its my flat so im actually not gonna leave and sleep at my moms when my wishes arent respected) to kick him out of the bed finally.

like i said, then i came home and explained to him what he actually didnt see (the behavior) and told him that i want a freaking apology and much more. then he said i was shallow and asked me if i wanted a fake apology because he ISNT READY (???) to tell me he is sorry. after some bickering i said "f*ck it" and then did my own thing.then he apologised in a very low voice and then we went to bed at some point. hm, i bet im forgetting a lot right now, oh yes right, he mentioned he checked my phone because im not having sex with him right now and before when we had the long talk i said that he basically isnt what i want so "no wonder im looking through it" ..i dont have anything to hide i said and im doing what im doing for us, for the quality of the relationship and thats that.

so, yeah lil' story from my side, but more or less same old. im not over the fight, "being genuine" is somethin different in my opinion. im checking up on him right now if he did "this or that" basically stuff that he said he would do..makes him feel sh*tty i guess, but well i need some proof too right now, dont i?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 23 2016 at 18:43
Member since: 19 August 2014
I appreciate you've not got the required confidence (women tend not to find their optimum amount until they hit their 30s, anyway), and I would never advocate regularly waving ones Sword of Damocles as a rule, because it's a cruelly sh*tty way to behave if made a lazy-minded, short-cut-habit of, like some people are regrettably apt to do at the slightest excuse or provocation. But SOMETIMES (- that magic word in life) it's necessary for getting your man to cease behaving like a self-destructive idiot, including when the first "swish" apparently has failed to convince them that you're NOT *EVER* HAVING THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOUR, THANK-YOU VERY MUCH!

To know whether you're waving the sword justifiably, you have only to ask yourself at any point this question: If he'd behaved like this towards me in the run-up to his moving in with me, would I have gone ahead and let his suitcase over the threshold? If the answer's No Effing Way! - there you go, it's 'get your sharpened steel out' time. You dump because it's the only thing TO do and you dump in the hope that it might provide him with a long-needed epiphany and get him growing up, finally, in record time....a great, big Reality Slap, STRAIGHT in the chops!

This is a Trading Standards issue. His 'advert' did not even give you ONE INKLING that he was capable of being *this* high-maintenance, did it? When first he began acting-out like this, you got the shock of your life - admit it. Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, thought you. This is the trouble with giving the ultimate Perk before the guy has even done the requisite Work to prove himself worthy of you. You can't know what you're letting yourself in for.

Now you're stuck, certainly emotionally.... locked in. If you end it, you say Hello to a period of grieving (although it's worth mentioning, here that the worse they act-out, the surprisingly faster you complete the grieving process and/or find it accompanied the whole way through by INTENSE RELIEF, which helps offset things significantly, gives the pain a purpose). If you don't, thereby getting read as condoning his behaviour, meaning he continues as was, you say Hello to a period of grieving....DESPITE HE'S RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU THE WHOLE TIME. In other words, you grieve and get over him from *inside* the relationship. Or put another way, you leave emotionally first, feet later (by whatever degree).

So *if* your answer to the above question is Yes (and it's not mid- or post-fight knee-jerk reactivity only) then you're in a win-win situation, but where the cost is a few months or emotional pain and disturbance. Trust me, if the man was always too intrinsically wrong for you, that's a very, VERY small price to pay to get rid of the ugger.

If, however, you're finding it all less upsetting and more cause for rolling your eyes or making faces behind his back and then merrily getting on with whatever you were doing, or find yourself newly capable of withdrawing attention and affection when he refuses to sit down and discuss the issue or (if there was one) fight, then, fine - do persevere. It's your life so up to you entirely, anyway. As long as you're okay with it and coping, that's all that's important. And anyway, Nana, he MUST still have more good points than bad or, trust me, you *would* find yourself capable of dumping or reverting to LD.

"oh and btw, we heard from a friend that he could maybe work a couple of days a week as a "moving guy" i guess, but we r still waiting for the definite answer."

Fingers (and toes) crossed!

"and then we were at home and then he wanted to check my phone all of a sudden..jeez..we had such a nice time and felt so good with eachother and then he had to do that"

Guilty conscience. He probably noticed one or two guys eyeing you up or coming onto you, no matter how subtly or how undetectably to you yourself. And he's aware you're not as happy with him as you should be....That and his baggage over what happened in your first few months. Could be worse: he could fail to give a sh*t. But if he wants to keep you man-proofed as well as 'oiled' for later in the bedroom, he has to understand that to achieve those things takes him keeping you happy and impressed fairly consistently, not kept on a leash or checked for fleas as he tries unconvincingly to pass it off as an somehow amusing game. Just keep it up and eventually he'll have to concede that the power in that regard is and always has been in his own hands. As long as you also always remember to *reward him for GOOD behaviour*? Do that for long enough and I'm sure he'll manage to put the 2 and 2s together, even a slow learner/stubborn trucker like him.

"i said and im doing what im doing for us, for the quality of the relationship and thats that."

Well done. Yup - no work, no perk...no work, no perk... no work, no perk. Berbom. And yes, the time for proof is definitely now.... because - what are we talking, now? Coming up a year?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jun 24 2016 at 14:04
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

thanks for the reply!

breaking news:before he moved here, he applied at a restaurant that seemed to be very modern and classy but small and with a family climate and they also wanted to work with him, but he took a "better offer"(basically a restaurant that was on the top 3 list here in austria). the last few weeks he has been applying and all of a sudden they wrote him again saying that they would like to offer him (right away :O :O !!) a "mis en place" 20h/week!! yeeeeey!! i was super happy yesterday when he wrote me the news (he ofc was too) so, i guess u cant really expect anything in life (*surprised!*-not..)..and what i wanted to say was that we figured out that the "schooling/education" i talked about is actually the final exam because he already worked long enough in kitchens. so they r going to tell him the first date he could take the exam which would be in about one month or a bit more. he wants to do it then (there r more dates too-not sure when tho yet) he is proud that he has the chance to do that but since the job offer came in now too, he is a bit stressed because the ball started rolling (which i understand) and he still has to figure out schedule and so on, so yeah he is happy, but carefully happy hahaha..he has to study a lot of german now..my my...

what i thought when i heard the news was also (after having such awefully stressful week-yesterday i was gone from 6am-11pm due to my dad coming to visit) "omg, he is going to have a life, omg i dont have to worry about not being home right after work or doing something on my own, omg i wont have to "function" right away nafter coming home, yeeey!"

the truth is i havent been showing that much affection in the WHOLE relationship (because no proof of worthiness at first-sounds aweful tho-and the hoovering up his emotions and making them mine) and now that im step by step distancing myself from the panic (that u also mentioned, and yes that was pure insecure panic with no reasoning behind it) im feeling better and im also "Que sera sera"-ing more and that brings me closer to him somehow..i saw that he started doing that too, the panic is getting less, sometimes u would believe it was never there and somethimes its still a bit showing but all in all its steps forward(mainly-mostly-often hahaha).

i started (which i never expected NEVER EVER) actually seeing how much nonsense comes from HIM and me when we fight and have super clouded minds because of stress, its hilarious..i mean, 2-3 months ago my world have collapsed if i wouldve heard him saying stuff like i did in the last weeks..so glad about that and i also feel a bit ashamed when i only think about what (in my worst days) i wrote to u, so at this point, thank u for the patience!! :) and calling me a stupid f*ck..(sry for the language, had too)

u would be proud how im handling it right now ( i think, i hope :P ) ive gotten so much more chilled AND i have this thought a lot of times (actually your idea) how i should toughen up, in the sense of "havent u dealt with immature boys/young men?", that a lot of the times its just *BLABLABLABLABLA!* thank u for that too..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jun 24 2016 at 19:15
Member since: 19 August 2014
*Happy* stress/pressure, knowing what's behind it, knowing exactly where the end of the tunnel lays (in fact, that there even is one), and that it's for a positive outcome, isn't a problem, is it. That type we just call being by necessity a bit over-busy/under a bit of pressure. So - "HALLELUJLIA!" to the job re-offer! Expect things to take a very different turn, now. (They certainly should, anyway, if all his stock excuses for why he's been so difficult are true - on which score, time will tell.)

We should expect to see him increasingly pushing all of the RIGHT buttons of yours, rather than almost constantly the wrong ones - either in this run-up or certainly once he gets his first day under his belt. That simple...Wooing a woman to warm, then hot, then boiling, then forever simmering is not that hard. No harder in principle than managing to get a pan of cold milk to boil then simmer. If the milk never leaves cold or reaches boiling but then cools right off again (possibly forming a thick skin), you don't hear the pan of milk suddenly jumping up to take the blame, do you...and nor would you pay any heed even if it could. You blame the chef (or his circumstances and other impediments outside of his control).

He still hasn't been getting it through his head that for that all-important minimum 2 to maximum 5 initial years, he's the chef. (You don't woo men during that vital priming period. You let men gain satisfaction and happiness from knowing their own wooing attempts are proving successful. Diff/all the diff.) Hence he's still being REACTIVE towards you instead of manly-proactive. You can't *both* be the woo-ee (or vending machine as well as customer). So ideally, as a near-future goal, it should be more HIM keeping or getting control of his emotions or panic and then you naturally and automatically following suit. He teaches you by example how to be tough (in the right ways); you teach him by example how to be soft (in the right ways) - voila - TEAM PIE, all available skills and attributes featuring as standard, making the two of you as invincible as a unit CAN be.

Wee warning, though: be prepared to suffer a week or two of his new-found sense of power and independence going a bit to his head, i.e. him starting to try to lord it over you in the homestead. Assuming it even happens - totally ignore it or fail to feel threatened by it, it should be but a fleeting reaction...bit like when you first pour a beer: takes a little while for the head to settle to its permanent girth. (Still, his head could do with gaining an inch or two, so that's okay, assuming it settles.)

Yes, it is hilarious when you're safely out of it and looking back. Not at the time, though. Then it's hell-on-a-stick. Don't think I ever called you or intimated that you were a stupid f**k, though (que?).

A person's SUPPOSED to be a 'stupid' in fight or flight (or freeze) mode, though. Because all they're supposed to be processing and acting on - total processing time 0.03 of a second - is this: Do I run? Do I stay and physically fight? Or do I play dead?...and all as an automatic occurrence. Not, consciously, What does this person MEAN when he says/does this/that/the other and what's his reasoning and has it got anything to do with A or B or C and-and-and-and...?! So if you *weren't* stupid, the pair of you, during what feels like a threatening situation (albeit of the emotional rather than physical variety), all you'd be doing were proving yourselves genuinely stupid. (Get it? Too stupid to be stupid. LOL)

Wouldn't say I was proud as such (that's more dad and mum territory). I'd say impressed. And you're welcome. :-)

Keep feeling free to keep posting/diarising or to take a break and just pick the thread back up whenever needed, though.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jul 6 2016 at 16:17
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

im not gone, i just need a break from the forum to kinda, lets call it practise all the stuff ive learned over the months. and "try" on my own..in german we say "zu viele köche verderben den brei" meaning "too many cooks mess up the mush", or too many opinions mess with Nanas head..

we r still doing our thing, with ups and downs..its hard to focus on myself when im living with "my reflection"(him)..so sometimes, or very rarely, i land in his head(and stupidly soak up his unnecessary insecurities) instead of focusing on myself and the stuff i KNOW, but its getting better when it comes to that..and i always find my way back to myself and then i pretty much ignore his paranoia and thats pretty affective for both of us.

u said the thing about "him being the chef"..well, i thought a lot about that, and hes been doing so much better with that role (some days ago he help me a lot, i was really stressed and he managed to make it a lot better), but its his insecurity that is messing it up a lot of the times. my way of thinking about that now is that he CANT be that the whole time because he hasnt build his own life here(yet)..and besides that i always was the one for months and months (lets not forget that) who gave in and went to him after fights to make up, so i also kinda pushed him into that position too, like i said, i did a lot of things and sent a lot of unnecessary and wrong signals that he shouldnt have received and now my behaviour has to change too in order for him to step up or even feel that that IS HIS job..working on that day and night btw but i know that i have tp change too so that he sees that :)

ill came back again when i have more time..just wanted to say hi and update u a bit on what im doing right now..oh, btw, the job they offered him (not sure if u knew about that offer) turned out to be from september..so we r keeping that in the back of our minds but 2other interviews r coming up (and i think some of them r even full time)..

so ill be back soon, gonna tell u how it went and more details too..

have a nice one soulmate! :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jul 8 2016 at 09:10
Member since: 19 August 2014
1. "i was really stressed and he managed to make it a lot better"

That's a first, isn't it! :-) Houston, he's starting to learn how to manage and cure Nana's emotional states (tick!)!

2. ""but 2other interviews r coming up (and i think some of them r even full time).."

He's obviously become used to the idea of getting a job if he's now going for full-time positions (tick!). Result!

(Those are considerable progress. Got any Champagne handy?)

Glad to find out you got the 'retraining' part wrong (or that he didn't explain it properly - whichever) (although, no doubt the latter). If, therefore, you feel confident enough to fly solo from here on in (and why wouldn't you, with that amazing chunk of progress, added to the simple fact of his insecurities being bound to decrease naturally as more and more time passes) and sense you're over the worst of the power struggle/customisations phase then that's excellent news. And yes, of course you can feel free to dip in and out as needed. I'm not going anywhere (despite unable to post much for the next couple of weeks (busy-busy-busy), bar with yourself and my other 'long-haul' thread owner).

PS: the English equivalent saying is, Too many cooks spoil the broth, but I believe it originally was a take on the Germanic saying anyway......Vorsprung durch technik ;-))

What I respect about you, Nana, is that you take life and, more to the point, its underpinning, namely your Primary Relationship, so befittingly seriously that you're willing to take long, dispassionate, even harsh, looks at yourself and accept any responsibility or culpability wherever it lays rightfully with you, without anyone even having to ask you, let alone mount a protest. Not a lot of people can do that (bar your doormats who do it to such a self-flaggellating extreme it constitutes nothing but self-delusion). Disappointingly few, in fact. Neither can a lot of women manage to alter a prior, already long- and therefore hard-set dynamic as got established during a not inconsiderable initial period of (understandable, age/experience-based) ignorance. So you're doing great with a capital G, gal - tolerating where only fair to (- wherever due to his predicament), refusing to tolerate and insisting on adjustments where not (his silly tantrums and sulks, i.e. the way he would deal with interactional and expectation-based problems).

And the REASON a lot of people can't do what you're apparently over the worst of doing, is because it takes a rare, adult quality known as Finesse. It's very hard to strike a perfect, both subjective *and* objective balance between being kind, considerate, understanding and tolerant and refusing to be someone's put-upon fool....knowing where, when and how to apply calls or 'last chance saloon' demands for personal or interactional alterations. People usually go too far to the left or too far to the right, ending up either pathetic doormat or complete, seemingly uncaring b*tch, both of which can only end in tears (when, not if). Furthermore, pace and degree comes into it: if you try to ring too many changes too quickly, the other partner can't cope, it feeling to them like a case of 'Who the hell are you and what have you done with my once-laid-back, hugely-accommodating girlfriend, she who seemingly never minded about anything, ever?!' ...(albeit, if you strike whilst the Honeymoon Iron is still hot, you stand a far better chance, given how that's the period wherein trying to please is at its highest due to the alchemy of your two chemistries still at its strongest-sensed.). But you're not asking him to change his personality (that *would* be expecting too much and amount to being on a hiding onto nothing), just his efforts and the way he handles things, including you. *And*, I should add, ones which will stand him in very good interpersonal stead in future with people other than yourself in whatever arenas (not least a boss and colleagues). So it's all good, he'll come out a winner just as much, possibly more than he would ever have imagined or had any concept of. Same goes for whatever self-tweaks you yourself make.

The other mistake people make, is forgetting to use the carrot as equally as the stick and thereby ending up demoralising and demotivating the subject, who ends up seeing it that they can't do right for doing wrong and either give up trying whatsoever to make you happy or leaving you for someone who *does* appreciate their good sides.

(From your own point of view, all of this is GREAT child-rearing experiencing, as I'm sure you can now appreciate.)

You and Hans (Hans on -v- Hans off - ha-ha) have what it takes to make it, I think. Regardless of the surface crap and niggles - the 'trying to get yourselves comfy' - you're both patently DETERMINED to stick together and make it work, no matter what it takes and no matter how horrid such mild renovations feel at the time. That's it... that's the so-called huge secret behind making it as a couple and never splitting up for good. Team spirit, team work, underpinned by being nigh-on Speak Your Thoughts machines so that either of you always, ALWAYS know where the other currently stands and what they expect or need...basically, always knowing where the other is coming from and, through that, capable of avoiding making assumptions-based boo-boos, treading on each other's toes and upsetting each other unnecessarily.

I'm sure it won't be too long before whatever you soak up is more often than not POSITIVE, HAPPY vibes....the UP-side to being a Noo-Noo (to a Tinkie-Winkie, LOL.) In the meantime, though, don't forget to remain ready and strong enough to dump or separate if ever need be (but as a fact kept strictly to yourself, unspoken and thereby only very vaguely background sensed (which is ample)). And don't *stop* that readiness. Not until such time as you can tell it's no longer necessary and, more to the point, hasn't been for months. Which is fair enough when you remember that trust beyond the usual person-to-person level has to be EARNED, not freely donated.

But he does seem to be on his way, now (finally) so - just saying/reminding.

********

Have a nice one yourself! If you meant 'Summer', however? Er - NO is the easy answer to that one, weather-wise. Here I am...in early July, after a miserable June...with freezing cold feet (am thinking of turning the heating on, ffs!), and a family-sized paddling pool sitting out in the garden doing nothing but looking deceptively enticing. Thank god I'm going on holiday somewhere hot 'n sunny this year! I couldn't stand another 'Wummer', as I'm now, after what feels like 9 straight years of no-show or barely-show, dubbing our English "Summer".

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jul 9 2016 at 23:36
Member since: 27 January 2016
soulmate, how?

"He still hasn't been getting it through his head that for that all-important minimum 2 to maximum 5 initial years, he's the chef. (You don't woo men during that vital priming period. You let men gain satisfaction and happiness from knowing their own wooing attempts are proving successful. Diff/all the diff.) Hence he's still being REACTIVE towards you instead of manly-proactive. You can't *both* be the woo-ee (or vending machine as well as customer). So ideally, as a near-future goal, it should be more HIM keeping or getting control of his emotions or panic and then you naturally and automatically following suit. He teaches you by example how to be tough (in the right ways); you teach him by example how to be soft (in the right ways) - voila - TEAM PIE, all available skills and attributes featuring as standard, making the two of you as invincible as a unit CAN be. "

feeling like im (we) r having a step back, so, how?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jul 25 2016 at 12:44
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

i hope u had a nice vaca :) richard told me that u r gone.

i have so much to tell u..but first i wanna tell u that we have a spectactor from now on. some weeks ago we (bf and i)were at a point where i didnt care anymore if he saw what i wrote or not..it was a fight again and then i gave him the link and he read the beginning (like i dont know till april or something and the end..

one funny thing tho, eventhough i always told him most of it, or in my opinion back then and now all of it, he said that he didnt know so much about it and then he said that "its true, i didnt woo and im gonna now" and "now that i know, im gonna do stuff differently" and "u should have said all of that to me" and so on..pretty surprising to be honest..

just a quick update,im coming back tho.im at work and had to let u know!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Jul 25 2016 at 16:05
Member since: 27 January 2016
ok, so the latest info is that we just had an aweful weekend.

it all started with saturday, i woke up and i could feel a strange mood.

but let me start by explaining why:

the whole week (it was my birthdayweek) he was taking it very heavily that 1. studying for an exam that includes 3 years of subject matter (chef school) that he had to search for on his own + the right german vucabulary that was needed to even do the exam, was starting to get too much to learn in 1 month then 2. us still not having sex 3. a lot of pressure that he felt because he wanted to make it a nice birthday for me and then last but not least 4. we had a super super long fight and then talk about him trying to better himself with the right attitude (finding a job), where we had an agreement, which u already know, and then him kind of not sticking to the agreement after some time and then just concentrating on the studies (which, like u know now, was way too much). the poor compliance regarding the agreement (that would show me commitment that i needed from him) left marks..i felt like we bounced to the beginning again..this long talk was about me explaining to him was has to be done and what happened and him then seeing that he "gave up" too quick..so then we kind of ended this talk with a good mood and with an agreement..well..

a week later, so i guess on wednesday, he surprised me with a picknick (a part of the birthdayweek gift)..so i was excited, still felt that something was bothering him, but he didnt really say much (not good!)..so then we were on our way to to our destination, and he started talking..

my my my, that was a heavy talk..he started saying "its too much, i think im not able to manage the exam if they would call me in this week" (school told us they r gonna call him some days before the exam) so i started talking about how understandable it is that it is just too much subject matter to study in one week and that he should pause the studying and then just focus on the practise, meaning finding a job. i told him there he would have collegues who already did the test and knew what was awaiting him, people who could help him study and also more knowledge..he was ok with what i said and then started feeling better..then we where at the spot we chose to do the picknick at..i really tried to relax and to calm down because i really needed it..it stressed me out him starting this wheel of "having an idea and then the idea being too much to actually handle " (he knows that-it makes him feel bad..and i also feel bad for that, but thats fact right now, this behavior needs to change and i guess with seeimg that there is actually a pettern in his behavior is gonna help changing it) and i also had a lot going on at work and my mom and my dad and and and..and on top of that i had him in my head the whole time like " is he going to manage this or that?" when he didnt reply to one of my messeges i wrote him i was first thinking "ok, he went shopping after he had his therapy..he is doing fine, its ok..he is old enough" but somehow it (again) turned into me worrying if he needs something, if he is ok, if this or that.." it got to me again..feeling responsible for him..

well..however, it was thursday, my birthday, and i told him that i didnt like the fact that my family didnt have time on that day but the day after (so basically, i was telling him that it made me feel bad, which ofc wouldnt lead into a depression or something like a huge disappointed) but somehow he took it personally and said that now he felt bad..

so yeah, vicious cicle again..

however, on the same day i mentioned (randomly after we talked about asian ppl) that the guy i considered as my first real boyfriend was half asian..and there was the stranger mood..(he said something like "u never told me that"got offended) and Boooom there we were..from that point on strange mood, nothing got said or explained (feelings, so the other person isnt confused) and then on saturday in the morning ( like i started telling u) the argument and the mood f*cked up totally..

continuing in a sec..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jul 29 2016 at 18:05
Member since: 19 August 2014
I'm sorry, Nana, but I don't work that way. Frankly, I find it bizarre and anti-productive. If you'd considered to discuss the idea with me I could have told you that before now, when it's too late. But, anyway, that's just as well because you two need to start mastering flying solo. (I realise you have been, lately, but consistently, I mean). Alternatively, if anyone else wants to step in then they can obviously do so.

But, look... The rub is this: 'Where there's a will there's a way'. To make it as a couple, you've got to have a superb chemical/alchemical match - the irresistible, heavenly pull - to possess the involuntary Will part (and - whenever that wavers due to bad times - the pull-*back* part). And then, additionally, the critical quotient of intelligence plus mental bravery and flexibility, plus good rearing/learning for being micro-socially acceptable to any decent other human with the same determination to find a mate for life, let alone to your particular partner as an individual with their own 'cocktail' of settings and preferences as either innate or conditioned-in. This includes, his/her morals and degrees of such; particularly, in application, including sense of justice to point of gender equality and democracy no matter outside pressure to conform; sense (logic and rationale) and sensibility (emotionally receptive both ways)..and ensuring the two always cooperate as an equal neurological team; manners, mores and etiquettes; ways of thinking, feeling, deciding, operating in any given realistic situation or circumstance...........for extra smoothness, you even have to like the same TOOTHPASTE! Yet *still* - where sufficient emotional intelligence + mental flexibility, empathy and willing are presumed to be present - these things will get happily deleted/altered/increased by the Other Half, either in one fell swoop or over a reasonable (repeat - reasonable) time period, IF THE CHEMISTRY, THE MUTUAL PULL, THE "NOTHING COMPARES 2U", IS TOO OUT-OF-THIS-WORLD TO EVER BEAR OR EVEN RISK LOSING, BER.....BOM!

You fall in love and - you immediately become a psychological version of a Class A drug addict and that is the truth of the matter. Oh, you can listen to the so-called relationship gurus telling you how you should never "over"-invest, hold some of yourself and your life back at all times, blah-blah, including keeping 'feeding and watering' your friends as much or do-ably as before in case the relationship might end and leave you on your tod, blah-blah. But in this life, IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING *PROPERLY TO THE VERY BEST OF YOUR CAPABILITIES* THEN YOU ARE OF COURSE INEVITABLY GOING *TO END UP NEEDING* THOSE PESSIMISTIC AND MISTRUSTFUL ATTITUDES AND FAIL-SAFES (self-fulfilling prophesy alert!)....and, note, continue to need the gurus (kerching-kerching!).

All you ever need to know for knowing more than not, whether or not a partner is intrinsically right is to ask yourself, could I be anywhere between content or deliriously happy living the rest of my life with just him/her on a bountiful little island, Castaway-style? Could I spend one...entire....uninterrupted month in a padded cell, just s/he and I, zero props, without coming out hating his/her guts and/or bored to tears? If the answer's yes - there you (two) go - you have the requisite foundation for building on. Or another: if the (in my opinion) hottest, most successful, most lovely, ...basically dreamlike celebrity asked me to marry them would I on-the-spot yell YES and dump, would I have to think about it, would I say no but see my feelings for my other half affected afterwards? The answer should be, 'Sorry Brad/Jennifer - you're not a patch on my soulmate!'.

That's all you need to know. The rest IS 'finding out' whether you two work for-real outside of the bubble as well as in. There's no crystal ball, unfortunately (fortunately).

You take the risks of choosing to 'piss', rather than voting to 'get off the pot'. In this realm, the risks are *psychological* injury and scar tissue. You take them, simply because you have to. No choice! Because if you don't/won't/can't then, not only do you lose that amazing, daily 'medication', but you'll never together achieve the aim of Loved-Up-Forever as then renders in retrospect those risks as having been wholly WORTH IT, SO....WORTH IT AND *THEN* SOME. But if you didn't/wouldn't/couldn't then the chemistry can't (CAN'T) have been all that much cop to begin with OR the chemistry was great but the host/hostess was to whatever a subjective/objective degree, an uncooperative a*sehole. But you picked him/her. Maybe you (not you personally, talking generally) had other or practical needs that posed convincingly as desire through having got added to the pot of genuine/pure heart-desire but which meant that that genuine DESIRE QUOTIENT had been under par. Needs change, needs dilute, needs get sated and bog off, sometimes never to return, as we ourselves grow and change. NOW where's your quotient at?! Answer: lacking.

You should never need them for anything but love. And the love should be powerfully such, that it metamorphosis into a need all its own.

Romantic-Sexual attachment to the meaningful, requisite degree of a lasting romance doesn't ever bog off because it can't. There's no Off switch. The 'off' is always, always a choice...just a choice about ones state of predicament, at that. Love can only bog off via GRIEVING over A PERIOD OF TIME (2-5 years on average in totalis, anywhere less for gaining back full functionality). Nobody but nobody decides to end their relationship and because of executing that decision suddenly feels nothing. Same as saying 'I do' doesn't suddenly switch it on, either. (Well, nobody sane, anyway.)

If you don't do something properly, to the hilt - including being prepared to MAYBE one day have to chase and woo back abandoned friends or make new ones...basically patch and fill the gap the lover left when they left - then you may as well not bother at all and just purchase yourself an inflatable or a rabbit. BUT WHERE WILL YOUR FRIENDS BE WHEN YOU'RE IN BED AT NIGHT, ON XMAS DAY ET AL, ON YOUR CHEMO BED/DEATHBED? Lucky if your friends automatically give or for whatever reason need to give to that degree, but it ain't in their job description as standard.

Make all efforts for the other and the relationship as a whole PROPERLY.

Communicate what you want, need, think, feel, fear - as and when they occur - PROPERLY.

Make promises PROPERLY and hold yourself to them PROPERLY (or abstain from making them PROPERLY).

Get and do your job/your roles and responsibilities PROPERLY.

Study (like it's a job) PROPERLY.

Inform about/stand up for yourself against unfair or unkind behaviour PROPERLY.

Punish and reward - LIKE an adult - PROPERLY.

Decide to not mind/ignore it/let it go PROPERLY....

Do everything fairly and properly.

Try, try, and try again PROPERLY.

Or ask for their help with it, nicely (properly).

I know it's difficult nowadays with so much on our plates vying for our limited attention and energy, but - PRIORITIES! Your romantic pair-bond is Number 1. Even ahead of kids (they moreover leave you...as it should be!). So the sooner you do Properly with the original 'life accessory', the sooner you'll know (and NOT waste precious years) whether the 'project' was actually DO-ABLE. And ALSO....little realised fact by those not in the know: when you do your primary relationship properly IT GENERATES REPLACEMENT PLUS NEW ENERGY AND CAPABILITY. So no WONDER happily married couples live longer and stay healthier (outside stressors allowing).

Pick well, however, or no amount of properly will save ya. So PICK properly as well!

Just be proper. It's not a big ask, is it? Not if you truly want a relationship WITH that person above all other persons you've ever met, and constantly keep yourself CLEAN & LIGHT enough not to make them 'ill' and not weigh down and de-enhance their life, psyche, health, home, career, financial security...

Right Person (alchemy - physical *and* mental)

Right Place (placement for bumping into one another + later situations and circumstances)

Right Time (mature and earnest enough to treat it like a project you can NOT let yourself fail at).

Six ticks in total. Or 9 if you count life/fate itself. Because if IT doesn't want to play, you're stuffed.

You can't, however, count hopeful/anticipational ticks. You've got to have the ticks now, even if they're small but with scope to grow.

Can you both tick all three today? Or at least yesterday or the day before or last month...? If not, do the decent thing of facing the relatively short-lived pain (that makes you stronger and more determined next time, anyway) to set that person (AND yourself) free to find their (or 'a') other half before they one day 'wake up' and realise they're soon going to die having never experienced *THE* birthright of every human. Nobody but nobody ever says on their deathbed, 'I really regret never having spent more time at the office / with my friends / playing with my iPad / making myself rich, etc., etc.' Because it's THEN, I reckon, that it starts to dawn on them what's now NOT COMING! And what is (getting recycled until you effing do it right to get it right).

Bit heavy for a Fridee afternoon? Well, so is life.

Just always endeavour to do the right 50/50 thing, and make doing that possible by whatever means at your disposal, the pair of you. It's really not rocket science. Amazing chemistry presumably already present - you just behave yourselves. Berbom.

*********

The last details for going forward:

"well..however, it was thursday, my birthday, and i told him that i didnt like the fact that my family didnt have time on that day but the day after (so basically, i was telling him that it made me feel bad, which ofc wouldnt lead into a depression or something like a huge disappointed) but somehow he took it personally and said that now he felt bad.."

How blinkered and insulting of you.

"however, on the same day i mentioned (randomly after we talked about asian ppl) that the guy i considered as my first real boyfriend was half asian..and there was the stranger mood..(he said something like "u never told me that"got offended) and Boooom there we were..from that point on strange mood, nothing got said or explained (feelings, so the other person isnt confused) and then on saturday in the morning ( like i started telling u) the argument and the mood f*cked up totally."

How blinkered and insulting of you.

(Work it out. Or ask him to explain [wait for it] PROPERLY.)

**********

All the best. :-) I do think you two have 'got it', the basis. The rest is up to you both.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Jul 29 2016 at 18:13
Member since: 19 August 2014
(Tsk - dis-enhance)
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
LUVBIRD
on Jul 30 2016 at 15:23
Member since: 16 July 2016
I read your first couple posts.. and then scrolled down to see if you were still together.

Imagine walking in a forest with your boyfriend.... and you end up somewhere you hadn't planned... you just got side tracked...lost focus....lost.

Every few hours of trying to find your way back on track, you ask each other... if you made it back yet.

When clearly you haven't.

We are all made up of.... words, actions, and intentions. That's how people see us, understand us.

You two are holding tight onto intentions, but have lost your words and actions.

To me, that means you are WILDLY IN LOVE.

LOVE TRULY IS THE MOST POWERFUL FORCE ON EARTH!! With great power... comes great responsibility!!!!

The two of you are lost in the energy.... and you just have to face this fact. Facing this truth... and giggling at yourselves...will help you get back on track. Back to MEANING WHAT WE SAY. Back to RESPECT as the first and foremost connection between you. Back to enjoying one another while engaging in LIFE.

Engaging in LIFE, means doing things together where the attention is NOT on YOU TWO.

Right now the powerful energy is bouncing back and forth between the two of you. Add some other things into the scene to soak up some of that attention.

FOCUS on something like a film, a museum, a park, animals, design, books, libraries, PROJECTS!!!

The energy in love... needs to be used productively... otherwise it becomes destructive.

It is just nature.

The passion that you have in your relationship... should be used to fulfill passion in your own lives. You have to have your own interests and projects that you work on alone.... only you will NEVER be alone... your partners soul will be with you. Powering you.

Understand this letter together... and you will be on the fast track to healing... getting back on track!!

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Aug 2 2016 at 16:45
Member since: 27 January 2016
Hey soulmate,

i didnt mean that i wanted or had the idea to make him a part of this. it was a moment when we were telling eachother "im gonna leave" and "yeah, u have to leave" and then at some point it (the forum) got mentioned and then i was like "u know what, there u f*cking go i dont even care" because it was always an argument he had "i dont know what u r writing about me and my therapist said that it is a very bad thing that u r discussing all of that there and not with me"..NO, like u know i discussed plenty with him, but its funny how he came to me after reading aprox. until mai and then the latest posts and said stuff like "i didnt know this, and omg u never told me and its so true with the wooing..." and so on, so somehow it was ok that he did read what he read and believe me, after some days i asked him if he continued reading it and he just said "a lot of it is very sad " and he didnt want to be confronted with so much sadness..so, i dont think that he will be back, it was that one day and i really feel like it was ok to do because i guess he needed to *read it* and not hear it form me..

but still, sry, its not that i want a *couples-thread* or something..wasnt at all meant as that. it was just like "ok, he saw it, he maybe be back and maybe not"..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Aug 2 2016 at 22:33
Member since: 27 January 2016
and luvbird,

thank u so much for your kind words..really beautifully said :)

what caught my eyes right away was "The energy in love... needs to be used productively... otherwise it becomes destructive." i wish we wouldve known earlier, it wouldve spared a lot of nonsense and fights..

still thank u a lot, ive read some of your comments and saw your enthusiasm behind it..love it! :)

when i thought about how to continue with everything im gonna let u know :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Aug 22 2016 at 16:07
Member since: 27 January 2016
hello again..

i need to write some things down, thats why im here. i hope thats ok, and i hope you are not mad soulmate.if so, then again, im sorry..kinda lost it(mentally) about a month ago. i think u might remember that we talked about the balance i tried to have in the situation with hans, meaning knowing that some things he just isnt capable offering me right now(so i have to be patient) and stuff that i just need to have from him.

well like i said i kind of got lost in that and it "imbalanced" (im just gonna call in that) somehow and i found myself in a very weird situation where i was waiting for what he promised/what i demanded (CHANGE) but nothing was really happening (he did apply constantly but besides the part time job he got promised from september the 15th or something and the interview he had, which was pretty promising but would also start from september, nothing changed, his attitude started getting worse again and so on)however, i really started kicking a** back then, i told him what had to happen and i didnt give in at all but with time i kinda started letting him talk me into telling him why what and so on, so basically i didnt stand my ground and he started doing what he did back when i started feeling so disrespected..this f*cking cicle of s*it!

yeah, so i basically thought that im just gonna pause it, the whole relationship, just a pause until he has a job and starts building up self esteem and is basically ABLE to provide what was essencial AND i would have time to get out of his head and build myself up, but guess what? that doesnt work.

so it started with him saying "why r u pulling away?this time im really trying and investing myself"-answer: i wasnt, i realised back then that i have to find my way back to myself and that he occupied my head so much, so i was basically started practising some "que sera, sera" and mental training and besides that, back then i saw that i needed more. i needed to be wooed and i needed to see more "good actions" from him (=remember the respect started lacking)(i mean u know whats been going on better then a lot of other ppl i talk to) but i knew that he wouldnt be able to understand because he was too insecure..(one of the reasons i wanted to "pause" the relationship). so what did i do? i tried explaining and explaining and then when he did all the wrong things he "gave up" he started playing more videogames and thinking "so where is the things that i need from her?"

in the meanwhile i couldnt handle him pressuring me. pressuring in the sense of he just didnt understand that i needed more. more afford. more ambition. more "hans is able to make himself happy too". and again, i knew that that wont work because he was too insecure for it.

and how did that affect me? i got very insecure (does that make sense?) and i started feeling bad for him.byebye "que sera sera"-mode! and i was super annoyed and felt helpless (u dont know how many times i thought about your words "u r never helpless", but i didnt know how to handle the situation, i mean i already said it, i wanted to "pause" it until he was able to understand that he had to do his part).

i started acting crazy at some point too.

in the start it was a healthy way of standing my ground and everytime he did stupid cr*p i waited for an apology and i got it (simply said). but what happened was that i started misjugding the situations and i didnt care(i did but i was too unsure) if there was something that i maybe did wrong or most certainly did wrong, i was in the mindset (eventhough super insecure from time to time or because of that) that he had to apologize all the time("i mean i was the one who said needed and demanded changes in the first place"-so i said to myself). it was like an anthem for me. because i knew if he gets to me and i start feeling bad for him and having too much understanding and then forgetting my side of the story and ME, i still needed something to remind me that i cant be weak, meaning i have to get the respect i deserve and if i have to "fake" my self-confidence im going to.

what got caused by that? well, he smelled it, instantly, he started pushing the "right buttons"(right for him) and that made me more unsure of my situations. i started doubting a lot again. and with that i mean a lot i said to him, the stuff that was important for us. everything i basically learned from being here on this forum and analysing on my own and in therapy. he really smelled that i got pushed into insecurity. and guess what, because hans had so much time on his hands, he pulled us both in again. putting so much energy and thought in "everything that is wrong with me and everything that is scary at the moment"!

and what happened then? well he started taking picking out every situation that was happening and where i reacted in a "bad" way, meaning, insecure, and he started holding that against me. he really build a nice case AGAINST me.

we didnt talk about how he has to change so many things anymore, all of a sudden he demanded change from me! honestly! u think im kidding? nope, im not!

if i would tell people and i did,they would tell me(or already did) that he has some nervs doing that. but u can see i got so insecure that (OFC!) he took the opportunity and started highlighting every wrong step i took. then he went to his therapist and talked about how he needs changes and then he got angry. very angry.

what did that do to me?well, i didnt understand how all of a sudden i was in this situation. and it made me insecure. this guy (and the cicumstances) is able to turn it around so quickly. from me almost kicking him out to me having so much understanding for him and being insecure too that i allow and tolerate certain behaviors (for example him being super super sexist)..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Aug 22 2016 at 18:20
Member since: 27 January 2016
So, im guessing u know that there is More coming:

Well yeah, the reason why i Chose today is because of the Last two weeks ( he started being angry at me all the Time and started saying how i need to change). Hans didnt know how to deal with his Situation so he started drinking, during the Day. What i did is Tell him all the Time that i dont want to participate and it wasnt ok spending Money on alc (how responds was "well thats what i feel like doing atm and i dont feel good at the Moment at all"). I just forbid him to buy any new alc and soon we were out of drinks. Then he Started telling me how he started feeling like getting high.. It got just worse an worse. I showed disappointment and disgust but when it all started (him feeling entiteld to being angry) he Yelled in my face saying how he doesnt give a flying f*ck how i view him.. All the Time i was shocked and aware that this would happen. I knew that him being at home STILL and me feeling Bad for him this would Happen.

And then on saturday we called a good friend of mine who is also my insurance Guy. That was hans idea. He told him he wanted to sign the contract my friend prepared for him. Plus my friend offered us a Little "thank u or Signing" Gift ( One Night stay in a SPA Hotel-Hans loved that because *sarcasm on* he Felt like going somewhere, there was just to much stress atm, he needed to relax. Oh and we need a get away *sarcasm over*) and offered to bring alc. That was just Perfect for Hans.

That night was so embarrasing for me.

He Cooked some food and asked my friend After he brought 6beers to get More. My friend spend so much money on alc because Hans wanted to Drink. Non o us were in the mood but he kept saying to my friend that they r going to get f*cked. Then we started drinking and me and my friend had a lot of fun (we didnt Drink so much in the start) we wanted to watch some Videos that were super funny and made jokes but mr desperado wanted to Drink More and More. He didnt participate in the jokes and then i decided to get him Drunk so he would just shut up and get Tired. But hans thought me and my friend were teaming up against him so he started being rude. And then my friend said ( without having the Info that he is a Former weed addict) to surprise him with some weed. I was shocked. In the Beginning Hans was like "No, i cant" because he knew that that was a No-go for me and because he saw the Look on my face but then he started saying "cmon bby, lets smoke all 3 of us one Last Time" over and over again. I couldnt Handle that. I started Dating this guy because he had the power to stop this abuse on his own. I Looked up to him. And he knew that it was very dangerous for him.. I said No the whole time. He got Mad . I didnt care. I told him at some Point if he smokes we r over and im kicking him out. He asked me if i am Provocing him.. I said No thats just whats Gonna happen. However they Went out (he walked my friend to the Public Transport) before that i told my friend that i knew he asked him so they would smoke on the Way and i told him the summary of Hans past and he said they wouldnt. The weed was in hans pants when they left. I asked for it so i would get rid of it and he started yelling at me infront of my friend.

They left. And when he came back. I wanted to see the Bag. And took it. He flipped. I didnt Care. Then the Hardcore disrespect started. He started saying "watch me how im Gonna be Better friends with them in such a Little Time. U r Gonna see how much spreading your leg's is Gonna help u" and "they r Gonna like me so much more then u" (thats what i meant with him being Sexist, because he figured out *for himself* that all my friends r Friends with me because i have a p*ssy) and so many related things. I flipped and decided it was enough. He Yelled how he Felt it from the start that i slept with him because i wanted him to like me and that he didnt have to do shit. I slapped him in his face. I Yelled that i dont give a flying f*ck that he has issues with women because of Other Girls, Other ppls Stories or his relationship with his mom, im Not any of them and the end of the Story and i wanted him out. All the Time i tried Pulling him out. He kept saying "i came because of u and i dont have anything and i wouldnt have done that to u if u Moved to denmark." I just said that he shouldve thought about how he is behaving and that i didnt gave a flying f*ck. He just said he knew i didnt all Time. I said i cared but Not anymore. Then a lot of of Other Things got said like im dont with u (from me) and he said that he needed some Money and that he is Gonna move back and this and that.

I Went to sleep. He slept on the Couch.

When i woke up he did too. He said e was sorry in so many ways. He had to get drunk to recognize it and a lot of Other Blabla. I Looked at him totally annoyed. Said ok. Then After some Time he said it again. I Went to sunday lunch at my moms. Came back and brought some food with me( we dont have any money or food left) he asked if there was something for him. I said he could eat it. Then After he said that we needed something i gave him a Couple of € and said he should go and get it. After he asked me to fill out some papers he needed for the Job Center Money and i asked if he is Really asking me for a favor. He said ok then im Gonna ask a stranger to help me.

And that was it. That was yesterday. I didnt speak to him.

Tomorrow he has the sind interview (with the promising Hotel-kitchen Job) and i need this money that he would get. The minus is enormes ( for my Age) and it has to disappear.

Ive lost Respect totally.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Aug 22 2016 at 18:42
Member since: 27 January 2016
What i forgot to Mention is that im this 2 weeks he kept asking me why i was still with him if i dont get this or that i kept saying that he is an idiot for Not seeing that i trusted him and new Things would Change when he started working and gaining some confidence and Security and he kept saying its because i didnt wanna be Alone.

Now i feel stupid for Telling this idiot who had to work on himself so Freaking much something like this.. I do have to say trusting in the Future and him in This State of mind was such a Mistake. He Felt so f*cking entiteld to so much bullsh*t, its unbelievable..

Thanks for provinding this Site for me. It helps getting rid of this a lot and your Input helped a lot too eventhough i didnt Listen to so many obvious advises, Soulmate.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Aug 25 2016 at 22:42
Member since: 19 August 2014
I think you're being very naive if you think he wouldn't be back. He now has access to your private diary, Nana. Why WOULDN'T he?, is the question, not, Why would he... Because, this is a man of average emotional intelligence we're talking about, who'd have neither the insight nor, more importantly, the experience to know which was just cathartic venting (and my encouraging or provoking you to do so) or which was you actually meaning whatever you said (and likewise). It could cause a whole heap of trouble. Usually does. That's why I don't agree to do it under those conditions.

No, I'm not mad. But I am disappointed for you. *However*, I'm going to make an exception just this once because I see things have reached an almighty head and could hardly be worse, anyway.

Listen, if he doesn't like apologising to you all the time then how's about he ceases treating you like anywhere between his sister or his mother RATHER THAN HIS ACTING WIFE AND SOULMATE so that he doesn't have things constantly to apologise FOR! And he can't reasonably demand *any* enhancements from you because right from the off it's been he and only he that hasn't even got a handle on the BASICS. 'Got a nerve'? He doesn't even know he's BORN! MOST women would have said, 'Okay, you can come live with me and I'll financially support you for the first three months (that's enough time for an able-bodied male to find work). But if you don't manage to find a way to bring in some income in that time then we'd obviously have to seriously review the situation or entire set-up - because, stating the obvious, I don't earn enough for two people; plus, outrageous though it is, women are still woefully under-paid compared to men doing the same job'.

Talking of 'super-super sexist': "He kept saying "i came because of u and i dont have anything and i wouldnt have done that to u if u Moved to denmark.""

No, of course he wouldn't have. BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A MAN. (Duh?)

Yes, he is acting over-entitled, I agree. But I think that's mostly just male posturing and bluffing, for want of any clue of any other way to sort this climate out.

If you've lost respect then he's put himself back and has some serious catching-up to do.

I still say his getting a job, finally, will be a total transformer.

I'm going to suggest- actually, no I'm not, I'm going to INSIST that while you're waiting to see if he gets this promising job, you re-read this entire thread. Will you do that for me?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Aug 30 2016 at 08:38
Member since: 27 January 2016
little update since i hadnt had time to answer:

he is starting the 20h/week job on the 5th

and im on it (the reading)

thank u for replying soulmate

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Aug 30 2016 at 09:58
Member since: 19 August 2014
"he is starting the 20h/week job on the 5th"

Really? As soon as all that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhjWdr-LAA

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Aug 30 2016 at 10:13
Member since: 27 January 2016
was that sarcasm?hahaha

yeah, im so freaking glad, the guy from HR (oh btw its a modern little restaurant-spanish/southern tirol cuisine) already told him he would like him to work there back in mai but he could start in september. and believe it or not, hans is saying if he cant get bumped up (more hours-which he btw asked already and the guy said they will see how it goes, but its not im possible) then he is gonna find himself a second job

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Aug 30 2016 at 11:02
Member since: 19 August 2014
...In all seriousness, though (and I don't want to interrupt your reading, but) - THANK EFF FOR THAT!

You watch that space once he's got his first few days or week (or DAY - who knows?!) under his belt. Because - I'm going to say it again - there is a part of me that heavily suspects a part of him has been perversely enjoying all this silly drama between the pair of you this whole time. (Do you know what I mean when I say that?)

Like I've kept saying - not enough to do to occupy his mind/imagination and stop it running amok like some bored, frustrated and trouble-making toddler, messing up your knitting basket and playing precariously with your favourite, very expensive vase when he knows full well not to, as in, 'PLAY with me, mummy, I'm bored!......alright, then, I'm going to MAKE you play with me!'

And also, as a forewarning, don't be surprised if he goes on and on (and ON) about it for a few days until you wish he came with a remote control handset. Nor if the power goes to his head however much until he settles in and down. Not saying he will, guaranteed. But if he does, do indulge him on that former score whilst just ignoring him or dismissing and taking the p*ss if he starts to act over-cocky (e.g. to bring him back down to earth you could say, 'Yes, Mr Branson, no, Mr Branson, would you like me to order your private jet now, Mr Branson? :-p'), because - this isn't just "a job", Nana, it's a significant stepping up in the form, amongst others, of his taking serious root and starting to make serious investment in the relationship and your future together, that at some point very soon is going to give him back his proper, healthier perspective in conjunction with a much-needed, HEALTHY type of boost to his ego, and help him realise what a prize tw*t he's been behaving like for too long....something he'll realise he can now no longer afford to do. Not that that means he'll be admitting it to your face, of course, but you should be able to feel the effects anyway after the first few days or week.

Oh, and let's not forget to add, KICKING himself for not having bit the bullet sooner and, from that, realising how an over-indulgence in taking respite (not least at someone else's expense) is the very worst thing some types can elect to do. They just end up DWELLING on everything bad that's happened in their past and working themselves up into a persecution-complexed lather, rather than letting their subconsciouses get on with it behind scenes, unimpeded.

And now you can probably appreciate why unemployment in any society amongst young, red-blooded males isn't just undesirable, but, left too long, downright ASKING for trouble. But that's another story...

You must be really relieved now that you can finally see light at the end of the tunnel, eh.

*****

Got a question for you, by the way: Did he and that visiting mate of his, the one he had the punch-up with, end up burying the hatchet? Are they back to being firm friends again?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Aug 30 2016 at 11:16
Member since: 19 August 2014
Who me? Sarcastic? Nooooo, whatever gave you that idea? LOL

"(oh btw its a modern little restaurant-spanish/southern tirol cuisine)"

NICE! Something completely new and different for him to really get his teeth into!

"and believe it or not, hans is saying if he cant get bumped up (more hours-which he btw asked already and the guy said they will see how it goes, but its not im possible) then he is gonna find himself a second job"

So you really, really liked that silent monk clip? You know - you CAN just press it a second time to watch it all over again? ;-D

PS: There's a good chance that, what with you having sat here getting zero responses and then having ceased posting anything yourself from the 2nd to the 22nd, that he eventually wrote this thread off as a source of inside scoop/unfair advantage. But, also, just out of interest - did things coming from him start to get worse around the same time as his being able to see you were now suddenly devoid of any outside support?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Aug 31 2016 at 12:35
Member since: 27 January 2016
jeeez, u were fast with replying yesterday,

when i have time (more on the way home and to work, i read a little..its a lot and im not that far yet-jyesterday i got some devastating news about my dads dad passing, so im leaving soon for the funeral to my home country)i read.

i wanna answer all your questions and comment on what u wrote badly, but im so super busy right now, so annoying!!

ill be back when i figured some stuff out, hopefully today :)

ps.since u r so curious :)

1.)" Did he and that visiting mate of his, the one he had the punch-up with, end up burying the hatchet? Are they back to being firm friends again?"

-well, there r 3 friends+hans. knew eachother since kindergarden, they just hang out mostly and drank (danish ppl, huh?) and never really had a deep or im gonna be so free and say super close friendship(since this is my diary)..and hans figured that out with time (since he was here, and i think he felt it before too). him and the mate he had a fight with had fights every now and then when drunk (some passyness was going on (dont ask why, im guessing that mate(was mentioned too) has some personal issues, sexuality, his girlfriend being close with hans etc...). what happened in vienna is they got drunk like u know and had the fight. hans didnt have the opportunity to through a punch back and he still doesnt like that (buuhuu)..they didnt see eachtother after (that happened in the first night the friends were visiting) so what happened is that the other 2 mates behaved like little puppies (since the driver(they came by car) was the one he had the fight with) and the rest of the days they didnt see hans..i feel bad for him thinking about this now, he was really happy that he is gonna spend time with familiar faces..but yeah, we, me and him, just met the other 2 to get his stuff they brought him and talked for 10 mins, right before they left the country. he is still pretty disappointed. he cant handle sh*it at the moment, everything gets so huge, he misunderstands stuff, he cant get over things at the moment at all, but long story short (haha) nope, they r not in contact and guess what, the mates girlfriend deleted him from social media all of a sudden (but only her, the guys didnt)

2." There's a good chance that, what with you having sat here getting zero responses and then having ceased posting anything yourself from the 2nd to the 22nd, that he eventually wrote this thread off as a source of inside scoop/unfair advantage. But, also, just out of interest - did things coming from him start to get worse around the same time as his being able to see you were now suddenly devoid of any outside support?"

-hm, i think he figured it out pretty quickly that im sharing stuff on the forum, and then bit by bit i told him what exctaly it meant for me being here (he was so annyong with asking about it) and how it helped and he wanted to know more and more and then i think about 1,5 months ago or smth like that we were in a fight and i felt helpless(very very insecure) and we "broke up" like so many other times the last months hahaha, however i said "there you go, read it, it doesnt matter anyways" and then like i told u he read some of it (accodring to him he understood more what was going on and he also asked me why i didnt say the stuff i said to him like i told u, i did tell him, i talked about a lot with him and tried but he didnt understand it when i adressed him directly) and then stopped. "it made him feel very bad about himself and it was too sad" .. yeah, like i said he cant cope at all at the moment..huuuuge pityparty going on at the moment!(HELP HELP HELP!)

noooow to answer the question already, i cant say it a 100% , but very likely that it started around that time..u cant really say anything against him or be normal around him at the moment, then he is asking why i am rejecting him sexually (well, isnt that obvious?) and then i try to explain that his behavior was insane and there has to be stuff rebuild and so on but his argument right now is just "im feeling bad right now(about everything, and when i say that i mean all of it:simself, us, job, family, friends-his head is full with problems..he needs to relax a bit) and u wanna punish me" or "u cant hold that against me, because i feel bad right now, how would u feel if i would do that" (ehm, for your information, he is critising since like 3-4 weeks-pointing our how i reacted wrongly in so many situations) OH and at some point he even said (after i said that i need to be wooed, which he at first agreed with) that i needed to be wooing material back then too and now ofc too but yeah..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Sep 2 2016 at 19:10
Member since: 19 August 2014
(It just depends on when you happen to catch me.)

So sorry about your granddad.:-( Were you and he close?

Re Hans's falling-out with his mate: I would hazard a guess, either that the girlfriend had got told that the reason (or one of them) for the fight was a reaction to something bad Hans had said about her (whether truly or just because his mate needed to proffer a more sane- and grown-up-sounding reason for having had such a childish 'fisticuffs' in the first place), hence her 'turning her back' on Hans, OR that her snubbing was a product of her having used the incident as her golden opportunity to curry favour with her boyfriend through a show of firm allegiance. If not then, in either case, it seems strange that she was the only one to unfriend him, especially since the other men were okay enough, afterwards, to chat with him before they left.

Although always a painful event, Hans should recognise it for what it is - a POSITIVE sign, specifically, that those friends are no longer on his (currently elevating) level, through his having progressed a few steps up the developmental staircase via the act of emigrating to be constantly with you. In other words, perhaps your good example and better lifestyle has started to rub off on him and put him into transition. I imagine he probably quotes your sayings and opinions a lot, even if you're unaware he does. Plus, from their point of view, he "rejected" them, didn't he.

Being in transition is like being a pupae in a chrysallis. Trying to escape and take to the air and STAY airborne for protracted enough periods to 'get things done', meaningful, lasting things, takes really strong wings. It's the process itself of struggling out and away from the chysallis that, solely, prepares and strengthen those wings. In fact, the more struggling, the more one goes on to succeed. So it's all good...just never feels that way at the time.

Also, re the pity party: things always do get worse right before they get better. So if you let him get everything out of his system, plus what with this new job of his (which will keep his mind occupied as well as direct it FORWARDS instead of always looking to the past), then, the quicker he'll be ready to knuckle back down to the business of making a new life for himself and you. So again, it's all good and just isn't feeling that way right now - this time, FOR YOU. And PS, the 'needing to be wooing material' was just his "why not, worth a try" attempt to pull you out of disapproval mode. I call it 'Pityyy meee, mummyyyyyy!'. (All men try that one.) Plus, I don't think he IS criticising you. I think he's criticising himself, *through* you. If it doesn't make sense, doesn't align to the actual events nor accurately describe who you are, that's what it is.

Nah, you don't need help-help-help, he just needs that job/the 5th to start. Plus, of course - shouldn't forget to mention - he's probably all of a sudden trying to offload the last of all his past 'ghosts' in record time (for which you need a 'teething ring' - you) so THAT he's got a clearer and freer mind ready for Day 1. Basically, this guy can't process by himself and needs something or something to react against.

One thing's for sure - he has a lot of mental energy. So if it can get re-orientated towards a good, productive end, I imagine he'll go quite far quite quickly. Anyway, we can already see that because ALREADY he's asking about scope for promotion. See? So that hard-working quality obviously IS in there, somewhere, just needing the right thing to trigger it to unleash.

Little tip you can give Hans: while he's learning his new role, if he can identify any kitchen or restaurant equipment that normally requires the regular, expensive call-out of a repair technician, or even just servicing technician - (during any breaks/lunchtimes) WATCH THE TECHNICIAN AT WORK to see and work out how he does it. If one of your employees can save you inconvenience and money by learning to take care of that equipment himself (but whereby that particular contraption servicing contract doesn't disallow for self-tinkering by the owner) then that usually ends up with the employer quite quickly viewing that employee as *indispensible* as well as proactive and having the right company attitude. :-)

Only 2 days to go, look! :-) Do mark the occasion on his first night home, won't you. Something simple, though (he'll be knackered). Massage...foot-rub...something along those lines.

What's the situation with your mum now?

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Sep 5 2016 at 13:10
Member since: 27 January 2016
soulmate, i arrived last night in vienna-meaning thats when i had internet again.

first things first:

"" -> this tread, i think its his. i know he is talking about a "he" and the relationship ending, but i bet with u its him, didnt ask him yet tho ( i did once in the past, and it wasnt him and he was humouring me for asking). but seriously, look at all the dots he is making, thats so typical for him and the no friends, lonely, no one wants to talk to me AND the money..no doubt..

ill be back bit later, i just needed to get this of my chest, and then im gonna answer :)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Sep 5 2016 at 13:30
Member since: 27 January 2016
"My life is a mess..." thats the tread
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Sep 6 2016 at 09:12
Member since: 19 August 2014
Nana, don't let your imagination run away with you. [1] yours and his situation are by no means unique; [2] same goes for the poster's typing style; [3] the poster's talking in terms of the the relationship having ended, whereas, I see no mention by you, above, of your having told him it's over (and I'm sure you'd have told me if that'd been the case - right?).
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Sep 6 2016 at 15:15
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

sorry i coundlnt do it earlier.

"Nana, don't let your imagination run away with you. [1] yours and his situation are by no means unique; [2] same goes for the poster's typing style; [3] the poster's talking in terms of the the relationship having ended, whereas, I see no mention by you, above, of your having told him it's over (and I'm sure you'd have told me if that'd been the case - right?)."

-i dont know soulmate, im pretty sure tho. like really. i mean i have to say that it does happen that i imagine stuff too. i told u that we did the "im done with u, u have to move out" "im breakin up, u piece of sh*it!" and so on. like i said i think he changed it (lied) with the details..im just gonna keep it open. what do u think, should i ask him? or should i just drop it? i mean it makes no difference anyways, but now u know atleast how his mood looks like, like for real, thats him at the moment, dont know how often he says that he is feeling bad about himself and that im punishing him for that by not sleeping with him. yestderday for example, we had a nice day (its a surprise at the moment, like really, that we get along ok-ish). i came home and he made a mixed plate with cheese and this and that and then i sat down and asked him to sit and rubbed his feet. he liked it. and i was glad to di it.

then we hugged a bit and cuddled in the bed (that was a surprise, maybe its the "footrub + first day at work"-magic?i dont know) and then i said that i had to eat and that we can continue later (i just came home, super tired with insane back pain and hungry) and then he started being pushy "cmon, it was so nice, why do u have to break it up know" i answered playfully that i had to eat that we have the whole evening. well then he was sitting on the chair across from me and watched me eat (that was new too) he was just waiting for me to finish. i asked and asked about the job and how the day was. he didnt really say anything negative. the ppl r nice, there is even a guy from england that moved to vienna 2 years ago because of his gf too (jackpot huh?best fiend potential!!??) and he doesnt speak german either (just a little) and then another guy from nepal. they seem to be decent ppl which i really wished for, and then the headchef who seems ok too.

however, after that i wanted to chill a bit so i said lets watch some telly, he said "why r u ruining the moment" i said that he was being pushy and too touchy (sorry but that guy is a completely different person i my eyes, i cant just have sex with him after us having 2 ok-ish hours, right? right!)but i mean i was still very friendly and i liked that we got along well, so i wasnt like "f*ck off"-ish or anything.

but he got pushy and pushy and i was more and more like "cmon, show me that we are "friends" and share and be friendly"(reminds me of a tread-not mine- where u commented something about the foreplay for women being the guys behavior during the day- AMEN!!! ) and at some point he was asking me why im rejecting him, i said what i just summerzied for u but ofc in a nicer way and also that i didnt like the approach he had and he started talking about how we "always" have sex under my conditions. hm, well i said "what do u want then? should i sleep with u eventhough i dont want to?"

i mean i said all sorts of stuff but at some point i just thought that he knows all of this, i mean i wasnt talking to an idiot. its just that he wants it easy. or he is trying tricks, isnt he? like a little kid, but he is doing that often. "lets see how far i can go " or " lets see how little i have to do to get something" however, i said i didnt like his approach and it didnt make me horny that he wanted to sleep with me after we had half an hour of normal friendly conversation. he said all sorts of stuff and then also "why cant we do it like i like it"..

what ever..

*******************************

"So sorry about your granddad. [Crying] Were you and he close? "

-thank u, we werent. since my mom was the second wife, that part of the family never really like us (when she was pregnant with my older sis they said "what does she need that poor thing for" and then with me "oooh noo, not again") BUT my granddad was the nicest and most neutral imo. i went there as a support for my dad. he is doing okish (my graddad turned 90 this year, so we were expecting it more or less) and i had a reason to pack my stuff and leave for some days. i needed some time away. ( from him-for myself and to "refuel" some life (hope that my sense)

hans thought he is gonna come with and first that was ok with me(it seemed like he wanted to support) but then 2 days before he started a fight with me, just a few hours after i got the msg that he died, so that wasnt really cool, and i was already annoyed by him not being able to have a normal conversation with, so i said the should stay and im gonna go. i saw that he understood that it was logical that that is gonna be the consequence of him starting a fight with me on that day and then also being bitchy (like a kid who didnt know that a aweful thing just happened to my family). i left. he was super dissappointed and sad and well, u read the tread (it has to be his and if not, this is exactly what happened to him while i was away and before i went this is how desperado he was..)

he drank by himself and played games and watched movies. the one friend he made while german class some months ago couldnt meet up so he basically spend his days drunk infront of the pc.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Sep 6 2016 at 17:30
Member since: 27 January 2016
"Although always a painful event, Hans should recognise it for what it is - a POSITIVE sign, specifically, that those friends are no longer on his (currently elevating) level, through his having progressed a few steps up the developmental staircase via the act of emigrating to be constantly with you. In other words, perhaps your good example and better lifestyle has started to rub off on him and put him into transition. I imagine he probably quotes your sayings and opinions a lot, even if you're unaware he does. Plus, from their point of view, he "rejected" them, didn't he."

-yeah. I think that he Knows that These ppl dont Really fit in his life anymore but since he didnt manage to replace them yet and was still stuck with being at home and nothin nice happening (now thats Gonna change i assume) it Mde him sad..

Not Really sure about the quoting tbh hahaha

"Also, re the pity party: things always do get worse right before they get better. So if you let him get everything out of his system, plus what with this new job of his (which will keep his mind occupied as well as direct it FORWARDS instead of always looking to the past), then, the quicker he'll be ready to knuckle back down to the business of making a new life for himself and you. So again, it's all good and just isn't feeling that way right now - this time, FOR YOU. And PS, the 'needing to be wooing material' was just his "why not, worth a try" attempt to pull you out of disapproval mode. I call it 'Pityyy meee, mummyyyyyy!'. (All men try that one.) Plus, I don't think he IS criticising you. I think he's criticising himself, *through* you. If it doesn't make sense, doesn't align to the actual events nor accurately describe who you are, that's what it is"

-totally on Board with that. The thing with him criticizing himself through me.yes, i get that and think that that is Happening. But i think maybe im doing that too sometimes, im guessing thats normal in this situation?

Any ideas how to let him get it out of his System without me Taking it Not thaaaat seriouse or being super duper annoyed?

"Nah, you don't need help-help-help, he just needs that job/the 5th to start. Plus, of course - shouldn't forget to mention - he's probably all of a sudden trying to offload the last of all his past 'ghosts' in record time (for which you need a 'teething ring' - you) so THAT he's got a clearer and freer mind ready for Day 1. Basically, this guy can't process by himself and needs something or something to react against."

- very well said and it Makes a lot of sense to me and puts stuff in perspective.

Gonna Tell him about watching the technician, but he likes and wants to learn a lot when it comes to Kitchen work and Cooking. (Eventhough he told me that he said to the english Guy that he doesnt have that much Ambition at the moment he just wants to make some money)

"What's the situation with your mum now?"

- my mom is doing her 5th or 6th chemo at the Moment, worst One so far regarding tolarance.. She is Puking a lot and she is Losing her hair again. She is also Taking some Cannabis Oil we got from the pharmacy( but i Really have to find her something stringent meaning More % because i think its Not enough) she has some scanning coming up because the Last months it didnt Really grow. But im Gonna keep u updated on this on too.

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Sep 9 2016 at 15:04
Member since: 27 January 2016
hey soulmate,

little uptdate:

it already changed something in him having a job (like i mentioned up there). we had a fantastic night yesterday. it was so simple and we didnt really do anything. we were at home (he had the day off) he cooked and when i came home we ate then talked. it was fun and some point he started teaching me danish sentences and it was amazing. like really (i dont wanna jinx it but it was). i just had the feeling like he *saw* me again. he never really wooed me...its insane how i can see that after having an amazing night like that..

we didnt have s*x that night tho ( i was tired and not really ready yet tbh) but i thouhgt about if im maybe waiting EXTRA this time.

however, this morning i was at work and an hour later his message came " morning baby <3 " and i wrote back 10mins later " morning honey <3 " and then after that nothing came. then i got an email from our landlord and i informed him (this was 6 hours after i wrote "morning") about it and then i asked why he didnt write anything today and we wrote back and forth:

ME:

honey, just got the mail that they sent the bill for the flat

HIM:

So they just sent it now?

ME:

no no earler

HIM:

da f*ck..

ME:

already on its way

HIM:

oh..

Okay, if it's not in the mail box already, then maybe it'll come monday

ME:

yeah i think so too

why didnt u write me?

HIM:

I did, when i woke up

Just feel very rejected atm, and a bit hurt.. So didn't feel like talking

you didn't write me either tho?

ME:

i wrote back

HIM:

And i wrote you first too

HIM:

Mean after that

ME:

ok, well i thought it was going really good atm, i enjoyed it a lot yesterday felt very close to u

HIM:

I just feel very bad about the intimacy, it makesm e feel very bad about myself

makes me feel like you don't want to be with em

And it overshadows alot for me

And i feel even worse, when i think, that wen it's gonna come back, it's not really because you want to, it's just because i've been mentioning how much it is making me feel bad.

ME:

sorry that u feel that way, but im really starting to feel close to u again (which is necessary for intimicy) so u should be a bit more patient ( i already thought about doing smth nice for u today, but then u dont write anything after i answered)

HIM:

I am trying to have patience, and i am really trying. That is why you are starting to feel close with me, because i am trying.. And as much as i want to have patience, and not think about it, it hurts me alot, and it makes me feel very bad about myself

i feel bad that i gets that much to me, and that i am saying it all the time.. Makes me feel very small

ME:

honey, from my side i can only tell u whats going on with me and why i am doing things and what i am feeling. im guessing that u r right that thats why i am feeling more close to u, maybe thats the key..im not sure but it looks like it.

i felt insanely good with u yesterday, i loved it, eventho we just talked. it was so so so nice..

HIM:

That is why.. Because i've been trying..

ME:

it makes me feel so good like we r a team u know

one of the best nights we had for me

HIM:

But why did you still reject me then? I don't understand... IF it was that special.. It was only around 22:30 there...

ME:

do u mean sex?

HIM:

Yes...

I get that you have work today, but it was very special yesterday, to me too..And i really wanted to be with you, thought you did too

ME:

i was really tired honey, and besides that it takes 2-3 evenings like that for to build up the trust

HIM:

Before yo uwant to have sex with me..

ME:

its normal that u have to trust any person to be physical

HIM:

What about 1 night stands tho.. :S I mean, are you saying that you don't trust me one bit? And i have to talk to you alot, for 3 days, before you can get yourself to have sex with me..

ME:

i love your body and i love having sex with u but i wanna see that we can have more of what we have last night. it creates relationships what we had yesterday

what?

now u r making me mad

HIM:

The no sex thing is ruining alot.. It might help you, but it is not doing anything good for how i feel about myself, or how i want to be towards you..

It pushes me away

And it becomes a viscious cycle, because you want me to be super close, but because of you being so far away, i feel not close at all to you.. ANd then it keeps going like that..

ME:

u dont understand that that was the first night ever that i felt that good with u. we rushed everything EVERYTHING, we never had nights like that and i told u we have to catch up on that because we need that for exaple for good sex

without that connection the sex is not gonna mean asmuch

i know that

and u know that

martin u want a short cut. i already had sex with u, i like it. but we missed the part were we had moments like that and now u wanna rush it

and thats what u do all the time when u see what it takes u still wanna rush it

HIM:

I am all for being closer, and you know that. ANd i agree with the sex. But stopping it fully, it's making stuff worse, and it created alot of shit with that.. We were on the right path, just because it wasn't perfect the sex, doesn't mean that it should stop fully, imo..

ME:

ist not about that, its about what it means

HIM:

It's not about a shortcut??? I learned alot about myself, you and us since i moved here, but what is going on with sex, is not progress.. I am glad that you feel liek it's what helps you, but it does the opposite to me, and it pushed me far away from you, and made me feel like i am not at all good enough for you, that you don't see me for who i am, you just want to see me feel good enough, to make you feel good.

I feel so incecure around you

ME:

who r u then?

i feel only see that

i cut it off in the last time because your behavior got disgusting. i didnt like u and i didnt wanna be intimate with that kind of person. a person can feel bad but not treat the ppl around then like shit

so, now, and i think its been from when i came back to vienna, u stopped the blame game and i started feeling like we r starting to be friends again. so excuse me that im still thinking "hm, is this just for a short time and then he is gonna be an idiot again, or r we gonna be equal "friends" again?"

HIM:

I haven't felt team with you either, and you know that. You are aware that your behavior has been shitty too, and that has also been why i've been like i've been too.. I didn't feel like you wanted to be a team, or did team things either..

But you are mentioning blame game, when that is what you are doing.. Saying that i acted disgusting, and now i am being what, punished for it??

and when i am a good boy again, then we can have sex? 😕

It takes both of us, to stop this shitty behavior that is going on, and for it to be good between.. I hope you are aware of that.

ME:

i know that we both have to behave normal again

and im not punishing u for it.

u know it reminds me of ppl who just met each other and then it takes 2-3-4 nights like that for them to THEN have sex and thats how normal ppl do it . we never had that, and i can feel it a lot. and when that happens i feel close to u and then i have the desire to get even closer and that means sex. i am not punishing u. i dont sit at work/home and think "oh he didnt do this that, weeeell that means no sex" that would be insane

its not how normal ppl do it its more how attraction and desire works i would say

HIM:

But we didn't do a normal thing.. Besides that, we spend a year, telling each other about who we were, and being in each others daily week.. I am not saying that, the first night we met, and had sex, wasn't too fast, it was, and i understand, but we did spend alot of time talking before we came to that point..

Me:

thats true. but i also told u that that had a huge inpact on me. a lot of the things that i told u regarding that one first night is really true. because i think i wouldve handled u being so overwhlemed here (and me ofc too) totally different if we didnt rush it. because i think that i always felt like we skipped that and it made me feel very strange

HIM:

I know.. And i've been trying to do what i can, i really have. I just wanted to tell you, how big of an impact this had on me, and i'm having a very hard time dealing with it..

I am trying, as you also can feel.. I'm just having a hard time, with what's going on..

ME:

i can feel it honey, and i love u insanly for that

give it some more time, lets not rush it again (and i dont mean the sex- i mean panicing about it)

HIM:

I love you insanely

hahaha.. Thx for saying that.. ❤

ME:

lets find a way to talk about stuff llike ´this normally+be normal ourselves, i dont wanna ask u things like "why didnt u write me"

and so on, so like u see, he doenst feel confident enough yet, but dont get me wrong, i know that he just started his life here more or less with the job and so on..still i wanted to update u, i have to tell u i didnt finish reading it yet (the whole thing).. i keep postponing it the whole time, because its so much..

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Sep 9 2016 at 19:55
Member since: 19 August 2014
Bear with me. I'm having a very busy and fraught time lately, everything going on at once. Am aiming to read and respond tomorrow (if I don't get a chance later tonight).
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
NANA
on Sep 9 2016 at 20:36
Member since: 27 January 2016
noted soulmate! :)
Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Sep 12 2016 at 02:21
Member since: 19 August 2014
Sorry again - STILL don't have time, still not ignoring you, am perfectly aware I'm keeping you waiting, can't do a thing about it. Yet. But you're definitely next on my list.

(Yeesh!, you know you're spreading yourself too thin when you start to sound like one of those automated call-queue-ing voice recordings: 'Thank-you for your call to Soulmate Inc....Your call is very important to us and will be answered shortly.......Currently you are.....NUMBER ONE...in the queue'. LOL-not!)

Moving in together after online/long distance..
Reply from
SOULMATE (moderator)
on Sep 12 2016 at 16:38
Member since: 19 August 2014
Okay!...

Nana, I'll just give it to you straight. Withholding sex as a punishment/form of discipline - especially from a man whom places great importance on love-making (or else you wouldn't be doing it...plus he's made clear his attitude on that score in that exchange anyway), for whom sex deprivation is akin to being deprived of WATER is not only unbefittingly immature of you - plus you signalling you're powerless, unconfident, and insecure otherwise - but also typically [understatement!] creates yet more resentments and complications to imminent point of male anger and revenge.

If he's resentful and angry, that's going to spill onto you somehow (something that in this case he *won't* be capable of curbing or controlling), which will make you even more resentful, which will make him even more resentful, which will......down-round-down-round - "SPLAT!".

He should only need to be told (to point of getting it) why and how his behaviour is making you unhappy in order for him to at least genuinely *try* to make an effort to curb whatever habits/behaviour(s) or, if he can't do that, find other habits and behaviours to automatically make up for it or cancel it out altogether. (You wouldn't MIND silly negative behaviour here and there if the majority of the time he behaved like a prince, would you.) Plus, if you deny yourselves 'plug-ins' you're denying (as I've before already explained) a method for increasing his willingness to make said greater effort, as well as yourself the aforementioned, crucially handy 'female spy' moment (- the 'Okay, I get it!' GIFT of a portal for gaining majorly long-lasting, conciliatory attitudes on both sides).

For starters, reading the above (strangely, considering) actually very impressive mutual exchange, he clearly sees/feels it as secretly a weapon of *revenge* rather than discipline come personal protection, and that too can only achieve you cranking UP his insecurities when, according to you, you want that root causal problem gone (or near as damnit/as much as poss for this stage).

Nutshell: your so-called solution is nothing more than salt (and a cheese-grater) being rubbed into/against a wound you have all this time said you wanted HEALED. (Du-u-uuh?)

What you're doing is also very *controlling*. I mean, there's 'say it with flowers'. So what do you think you're saying with 'closed legs/closed YOU'? To men, that says you reject the whole, and what's more, *intrinsic* person, rather than just their surface, on-off behaviour, i.e. rejecting the very bones [scuse pun] of them. Furthermore, if you're using it as a punishment then it stands to reason that the minute he ceases to deserve punishment he deserves to be rewarded, using the reverse of that same said 'stick'. And yet, ref the foot-rub evening - you're not. That's like sitting your toddler on the naughty step and leaving him there all day and all night! That's not authoritative, it's authoritarian, as makes you a baaaaad 'mother'. Do you think mothers that limit that 'solitary confinement' spell do so because THEY feel ready to forgive and forget after a piddly 5 or 10 minutes? No. They do it, putting their personal feelings/ego pride aside, because it's the right and fair thus BENIGN-LEADER thing to do.

Talking of compensating: if you're not going to take my sensible advice (or not just yet) then, take your own tip: crank up the loving words and thoughtful gestures/favours ('ILY insanely' obviously had a good effect on him) and any affectionate touch that *can't* turn him on in the process (although, be warned: given enough time under sex deprivation, even a head or neck massage is going to give him an instant st*ff*e). I do mean crank them up, though, so that they'll have the same/greater weight and impact as the withholding; otherwise, actions will be speaking louder than words. What I mean is, sometimes words, varied and repeated enough, can BECOME an action in themselves.

Given the surprisingly-impressively high level of willingly honest and vulnerable communication in the above text exchange message, however, I think he's (deliberately) coping with it remarkably well, considering (although I'm sure the boost from the new job has a lot to do with it...that and his hope and expectation of the sex embargo coming to an end soon). I imagine you wouldn't want to lose that new-found honesty and directness of communication?

It also (WARNING-WARNING!!!) leaves him highly vulnerable to (low-down, sh*tty, predatory) female advances. They can spot a sexually desperate and needy (and self-pitying) man a mile off!

Anyway, how are you going to feel much better about him and vice-versa if you're missing that vital feel-good element, namely Oxytocin (the nesting hormone) and myriad other feel-good hormones and pheromones? You've obviously missed the fact of how you're punishing *yourself* into the bargain. What are you trying to 'say'? We're BOTH bad and need ostracising from our relationship??

How would you feel if, say, I turned around right now and told you that I'm not talking to you any more until such time as you swear (and I can hear it, that) you and he have had sex finally? Wouldn't you see me as utterly DESPERATE, thus ineffectual, to get you to toe 'my' line and/or over-ready to hit under the belt like some despotic baby, considering there are better and less deeply insulting ways still available? You'd lose respect for me in a second!

It's also a self-perpetuating mistake: the less sex you have, the even less close and desirous you're going to make yourself OF HIM AS A WHOLE. Are you trying to IMPROVE the relationship or destroy it in a drip-drip, acid stylee? Oh yeah...withholding sex is a form of relationship DEATH via you taking the steps that quickly lead to emotionally shutting down (you first, him second...IF you're lucky!) altogether - whether or NOT either of you have the b*lls to acknowledge it with your feet (instantly).

You can not pick a suit of armour that mistreats him in the process of protecting YOU or all you're doing is lowering yourself to HIS sometime level - your very reason for having come on here in the first place!

(Duu-u-uuuh????)

YOU can waste all the above hard work but, as co-worker on Project Fix, I now have a say in the matter.

NO....STOP IT...ENOUGH!, in other words. He's already TOLD you he's in agony over it! What you're doing is MEAN AND CRUEL, NOT TO MENTION HIGHLY PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE, to the point of completely out of proportion with the 'crime'. Sex (within the context of a 'marriage') is sacred. What you're doing - perfectly wittingly - is sacrilegious.

Now let's turn it round so you can really get it: He's resentful at you for whatever reason(s) and so (for want of a better example in limited time) he starts to refuse to hand over any (badly needed) housekeeping money. NOW how'dya like them apples?!

You're going to have to force yourself (at fi