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Should I or shouldn't i

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Relationship advice Recently my wife informed me that she was changing massage therapist from female to male. The male therapist works out of his apartment residence solo. I told her that I was very uncomfortable that she be alone with a male therapist at his residence and having this guy rub his hands about her naked body, especially since she had only met and talked with him for 1 hour over coffee at Starbucks. She could tell that I was upset with this situation and informed me that she had cancelled her appointment with him so that I wouldn't be upset and worried. I thanked her for doing so and felt very relieved.

A day or so later I found out through e-mails and text messages she had indeed cancelled her appointment for her scheduled massage as she had stated, but in the same text message she ask him if he could reschedule her within the next week or two! His reply to her was for an appointment the following week.

Obviously she was not telling me the truth and flat out lied to me. This really hurts me deeply as I've always trusted her throughout our marriage. I've never suspected her to have ever lied to me in the past.

I am going to wait until her appointment date next week to see if she goes through with it. I know where the massage therapist apartment complex is located and the time for her appointment. I have a full view of the parking lot to see if she shows up. I will then know for sure that she has definitely lied to me.

Questions and opinions;

Do I let this slide and say nothing to her?

Do I confront her face to face with picture proof evidence showing she had lied to me?


Should I simply email her a time stamped picture of her at the apartment complex at her appointment time and ask if she would like to comment or provide an explanation?

Thanks for all replies.

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How did you find out information from her private emails and texts?

You are going to film her at an apartment complex?

Sorry, but your relationship has issues other than a massage.

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Like you, I would feel very uncomfortable if my wife wanted to attend a massage session with a lone male masseur in his apartment. How did you come to "find out" through emails & texts that she was going ahead though? Was your gut telling you that something was amiss, or are you in the habit of reading your wife's emails? She hasn't actually done anything yet apart from reschedule an appointment, but I think you are right to feel suspicious that she is misleading you.. I think you need to challenge her about her deception, but she will want to know why you were reading her correspondence. The previous reply is right. It sounds like a massage is the least of your problems.

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Are you sure she just me this man? Who goes to man house alone in his apartment for a massage? No don't let anything slid. Confront her now,how would she feel if you lied and had private massages at some woman house? Unacceptable!!!

Put your foot down demand that she end ALL Contact with this guy.

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Also-Reading her e-mails pales in comparison to her lying and betraying your trust and marriage.

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Why don't you go with her to her appointment? Better yet, suggest a couples massage.

You know nothing about this masseuse. You have jumped to conclusions. In our area, they have to be licensed.

What ELSE is happening in your marriage that makes you look in her phone and emails?

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Sorry I haven't replied sooner.
Our marriage has been wonderful for almost 52 years of marital bless. Our wedding night was the first time either of us had experienced sex. Our sex life today is still strong, although slowed a bit from when we were young. Our ages at present are 76 and 72. She has aged very well to be 72 and could pass for a woman in her mid 50's. She has been a Personal Trainer and Pilates Instructor for 40+ yrs. and keeps herself in excellent physical shape.

Concerning our emails and text messages, bank accounts etc., everything is wide open to either of us. We keep all our Usernames and Passwords in a spiral bound binder which we can both access at will. I do not have or use a cellular phone so it’s email only for me. We’ve never hidden anything from each other for our entire marriage that I am aware of. She often rummaged through my mail for something she had sent me but had deleted from her own mail client to recover the information she needed. Never gave it a second thought, had nothing to hide. Maybe what I did by looking in her files for information about this situation was wrong, I sure didn’t feel guilty about doing it at the time but maybe I breached an area that should have been off limits.

Since I had the name and address of Mr. Wonderful, I checked city business records to see if there was a listing for a massage business at his address. No listing. I checked city ordinances concerning massage business requirements. It stated that “No portion of the Massage Establishment will be used for sleeping/residential purposes.” The city ordinance also states that every massage therapist must be registered with the city police department. No listing with the police department for Mr. Wonderful. The ordinance goes on to state that certain certifications must be presented and verified in order to obtain a business license. I could not find his name listed in the database of the organization that issues the certification. It’s obvious to the most casual observer that Mr. Wonderful is operating in violation of the law in many areas.

The question was asked in a reply to my post, “Are you sure she just met this man”. No I am not sure but have seen nothing to indicate that she has known him for any length of time.

Will wait for this coming Thursday to see if she shows up at his apartment complex at the scheduled time before deciding how I should handle the situation.

Thanks for the replies thus far.

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This guy for some reason has gotten to your wife to deceive you this is a red flag. If she shows up ask her why she put this man ahead of you and your marriage.

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I think you should actually go talk to this guy now, and ask him why you can't find his name in any of these databases...ask to see his credentials for practicing as a massage therapist.
It very much could be that your wife doesn't realize this guy may be running some scam. DO NOT jump to conclusions in concern with your wife. It does not sound to me that she purposefully lied so much...maybe she made the appointment for a later date with the intention to blow it off. And as you mentioned you both are open with all emails and things. so the fact that she left it there for you to find (knowing that you would) speaks to me that she meant to perhaps talk to you more about it...either hoping to change your feelings on the topic, or that she was just being nice by accepting another appointment instead of just cancelling. Some people are like that.

Go talk to the guy yourself. Don't just automatically assume the fault lies with your wife. Marriage, as I'm sure you know, needs honesty and most importantly- trust.

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Thanks for your reply UNICORNKITTY. I have not yet jumped to any conclusions. I will wait for this Thursday to see if she shows up at his apartment for the appointment she made after cancelling the first one.

I found it very strange that she cancelled the first appointment, yet in the same text message ask him to reschedule her for this week or next week. It would have been just as easy to tell him in her cancellation
message that I'll get back to you when my schedule allows. It wasn't him that proposed the second appointment, he just did what she ask him to do and that was to schedule another appointment. As of this date she has not mentioned one word to me about another appointment nor uttered a word about this matter.

I know for sure that if this guy wants to practice his trade in the city and state that I live in, he must have a certification from and independent organization for background checks, fingerprints and education. If he doesn't have certification from this organization then the city and police department that I reside in will not issue the necessary documents for him to operate. Even if he had the certification he would not be approved by the city to work from his private residence as stated in the cities ordinance.

Why my wife would even consider taking a chance of going to a single male Massage Therapist who she has known for about 1 hour, for a FREE massage, at his private residence is beyond me. She is "normally" very cautious about things of this nature.

I'm anxious for this Thursday to get here to see if she is true or blue. I am so hoping that it is a big WASTE of MY time to even show up to see if she keeps this appointment. Needless to say, I will be absolutely HEART BROKEN if she does.

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I must be living in the twilight zone because this whole episode is getting downright bazaar. Yesterday my wife sends a text message to Mr. Wonderful cancelling her FREE massage appointment for Thursday of this week at his apartment. In her message she says;

“To be honest with you, I’m cancelling my appointment for the second time because my husband feels very uncomfortable for me to have a massage by you at your private residence. I think he is being very silly but I must respect his wishes. Is there any possibility that you could come to my private studio next week?”

She works from her own studio, alone, so what the hell is the difference from going to his apartment or him coming to her studio. Either way she would be alone with him. I just don’t get how she can justify in her mind by stating that she wants to respect my wishes, yet invites him to her private studio. This whole thing has not made any sense to me from the beginning! Never have I seen such strange behavior from her in our 52 year marriage.

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When she says "can you come to my private studio" tells him she has figured a way to get his massage in spite of your concerns. What happens after this FREE Message, will she be his client behind your back? Is getting message something both of you do? Thank her for not going through with the message, explain again her being alone with a male doesn't sit right with you. This gives her the opening to inform you of the new appointment.

If she's not forthcoming,then you'll need to lay down the law with regards to Male Massage Therapist.

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Thanks for your reply SKINNYGIRL.

Seeing the text message that my wife sent to Mr. Wonderful on Tuesday cancelling her FREE massage appointment for today for a second week in a row looked very favorable, i.e., until I read the part where she asks if he could come to her private studio next Thursday (31st).

I know her weekly work schedule and if there is a change she always lets me know at the beginning of the work week, i.e. times she finishes with her last client of the day and time she expects to be home. There was no word from her last Sunday evening of any changes from the normal this week. Knowing she had made that 2nd appointment for today (Thursday 24th) and not informing me of any changes to her work schedule during this week sort of indicated to me that she didn't plan on following through with it. Sure enough she sends him a message on Tuesday cancelling the appointment on Thursday but at the same time asking if he can come to her private studio the following week.

What seems strange to me is she cancels yet reschedules immediately. Is she thinking that if I don't go to his apartment I won't be going back on my word to my husband? Is requesting him to come to her private studio for the massage OK in her mind?; like I'm not going to this guys private residence so that wouldn't constitute going back on my word to my husband?

I suppose if she ever gets a massage from this character and finds that it fits what she's looking for in a massage, than she would most likely continue having him do so behind my back. We've never had a massage together; in fact I've never had a massage in my life.

I am totally confused and very mixed up about the games she is playing with me and him. This just does not fit her regular MO and it's driving me crazy. I love this woman with all my heart and soul but she is cutting me to the quick and has made me absolutely miserable these past two weeks.

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I believe she understands that his apt or her studio is the same situation. Otherwise she would have informed you or asked if you would have a issue if he came to her studio. My guess is that she might have gotten cold feet.

Why not confront her, remind her that you'd have a problem with HER getting massages from any male massage therapist.

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I made it VERY clear in our first conversation that I have a BIG problem with some guy she has had personal
contact with for as little as 1 hour laying hands on her naked body, especially in this guys private apartment.
I can't figure out what game she is playing by cancelling two Thursday appointments in a row, while in the same text she sends him to cancel turns right around and asks him for another appointment time. Since she has cancelled the appointment that was supposed to take place today but made another one for next Thursday at 1:00 PM, I guess I'll wait and see what she does next week. If she does go through with the appointment next week in her studio,
I'll barge right in on them and catch her in the act. I've got keys to the place as my name is also on the lease.
I do not want to confront her as being deceptive with me until I know for a fact that it's true. This week has really taken a toll on me with anticipation of will she or won't she. Well, she didn't so I'll go through this again until next Thursday.

Thanks for your advice.

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How come after 52 (!!!) years together, you two can't TALK about this?

Start off the conversation with . . . "So, how did you finally end up dealing with the massage you wanted?"

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I would consider letting her have her fun wit this guy.

One, it's going to happen anyway. Two, you don't need to keep her in a cage.

Three, nobody's perfect.

Four, a lot of marrieds do this anyway.

Five, swingers do it in front of each other, and so are more honest.

Six, it would improve your marriage.

Seven, it would improve her confidence and disposition.

Eight, you don't have to leave, you just let her do it, and you get to stay in the house and the marriage to probably the most wonderful woman in the world.

Nine, guys don't have any right to control their wives, guys screw around behind their wives backs all the time, and then get all over their wives if they even look at anybody.

Ten, your homelife will be imrproved 1,000% than if you keep looking at her e-mail and riding by their place, and catch them in anything, and then having to defend your manhood by giving her hell 24 hours a day/

You are talking to the expert, after all. My wife cheated on me from the firstr monthof our 36 year maragie, with probably 40 to 50 guys, and some women.

The first seven years of our marriage I would l put up even against your marriage. Sometimes two I love yous a day from my wife, sometimes 2 in 10 minutes.

She was skinny as a rail, in pictures of her during that time, she was absolutely radiant, as she took on the persona of the guy or guys she was screwing.

When it became obvious she was really interested in this one guy, all heck broke loose, and she told me to leave the house, the marriage, everything, except it was half my house and we had a young child together.

When we were dating by about a year, she told me she had sex with another man, for I had displeased her. I was very upset, but didn't want to be alone, so I took it. Six months later, she tells me she's involved with a guy on a regular basis, even telling me about the dates and what went on: they fucked.

I got to where I couldn't get excited unless she or I talked about this guy having sex with her.

If it turned her on, it turned me on. I heard a guy tell about the performer Tom Jones, something like, he turns on her engine, and I get to reap the rewards of that.

I know what he's talking about. If my girlfriend, and then wife, was so turned on to this guy, that, for one thing, she would be willing to duimp me if I didn't approve, and second, he provided her with more 30 minutes of excirtement, while I was the long term guy (she had a divided ego from sex trauma in childhood), then at least I knew my place, and I got excited seeing her so excited.

She wanted to relive her sex dates with him, with me. She wanted to tell someone how great it was, which gave her a better screw and climax. And it gave me a better screw and climax.

Nothing more dull than a married couple screwing in the missionary position for the 1,000th to the same snerio. I mean,after one year or 20, that's supposed to be special? Please.

Not after you heard some of my wife's stories, like first date within five minutes of getting to the part place. To tink I was going to have all of that excitement to myself was a dream of my own.

She tried to tell me she was having sex with this guy, but I knew who he was and she couldn't to protect him. The guy shed dated in college, I didn't know, so she told me everything and I listened.

And it worked out great.

She tried to tell me about the time it was about to be exposed on its own, during one of our sex sessions, when she was heeavliy suggesting she was having sex with this guy.

Her hinting, led me to our pre-marriage days, and saying something like, "Is it OK for a guy to play with a woman?" which was while we were screwing.

I then said, "Is it OK for a woman to spread her legs?" and she would say, "Uhhh, huhhhhh!!!!"

And I would say, "Is it OK if a guy puts his dick in a woman?" and she would say,"Uhhh, huhhhhh!!!!"

And I would say, "Is it OK for a guy to fuck a woman?" and she would say, "Uhhhh, hhhhh!!!!"

And so I thought it meant she was telling me she and this guy were having sex, which looked 50-50 to me.

So I broke at that point, and took the she was having sex part of that, and said, "Would you like to have a date with him?" meaning I would have to accept that, or leave.

I thought she was oging to say, "You wouldn''t get mad?" And I was going to say, "No, baby, as long asd you tell me about. You know how I like the details."

And I thought she would then say, "But you'll get mad." And I would say, "No, I won't. How long has this been going on?" which would be the first detail.

She would say, "Oh, a few years." And I would say, "Where do you two go?" "And she would say, "Oh, sometimes we go to a motel."

And I wojld say, "Where else?" And she would say, "Sometimes we do it in his car." And I would say, "Where elswe?" And she would say, "Sometimes we do it on my desk after school and the kids have gone for the day."

And I would say, "What else?" And she would say, "He brought in a stripper a few years ago, and a lot of strippers are bi, and it wasn't long before she stated seducing me. And you know how I've always fantasized about having sex with another woman, how I wanted to do my roommate in college, and she wouldn't let me."

Well, all would be forgiven at that point, because that's my biggest fantasy, also.

"And?" "And sometimes I have sex with two guys in the room, and they're either taking turns on me, or are both doing me at the same time."

Now, I've figured out from things she said, and how she acted, etc., that these things did go on.

So, we might could have had a chance to make it. Instead, she couldn't cross the line and tell me, for I could have retaliated against the first guy. So she was in a bind and I was in a bind.

So the marriage ended p with us going at each other for 29 years. She passed away from a long illness. She smoked.

So, I'm saying to you, you might not have he emotional makeup that I do. I can be very passive, I can be, fine, a wimp.

I can be trying to please women, submitting myself to their desires, serving women. Bowing down to a strong woman. Submitting to a woman if she gets strong enough, mean enough, knows what she wants enough.

You might not be made up like that. You might be, man has to win, my way or the highway baby.

A question: in all your years with, her, you've never screwed behind her back once, right?

Let's say you haven't, but have you ever tried to make it with a woman during your marriage, and your effort were not successful?

Not even once, right? I don't know about that one.

How about an office emotional closeness with a woman, that you saw every day for months or years, and you found yourself waying, "If she gives me a indication, I would go wit h her" and she didn't give you an indication.

And of course, you don't go to any porn sites? Hello! And you've never tried to connect with a female on the net? I haven't, but I'm asking you if you have? Mr. Perfect is in the building.

Women don't have the opportunities that men have. Women can't call a guy, they can't take the offensive, they don't meet guys like guys can meet women at a lunch restaurant, or on a business trip.

So, they don't have the opportunities that guys do. So, when they get an opportuity, let's me go.

You can't stop it anyway. The her have the fun, let her have the marriage, let her have the peace in the home.

Or, macho up. Walk in on them. Show 'em who's the man. And screw up your marriage. Argue wit her every night,"When did this start?" for the rest of your life.

Give her a reward for putting up with your shit for decades. And remember the time when did fuck, this woman, or wanted to and she turned you down, and hiding it and giving her hell the entire time.

Oh, did I have sex with another woman prior to catching my wife? Yeah. I asking this woman who I had been heavily flirting with for many months, to take her meal break with me, in my car, where there would be only one thing I wanted her to eat.

She agreed. We drove around and parked, we nuzzled, I ask her for oral, she complied, I finished myself off.

Did I mentioned that to my wife when I was giving her hell for 29. No. Why? Because I'm a jerk.

Well, you know, like all guys. We're full of shit.

So, cut back on the macho. Let her have some fun. Give her a reward for your being full of it.

If she wants to tell you and enhance the marriage, she'll tell you. If she doesn't and wants to enjoy it on her own, let her do that.

If you don't know who it is, don't try to find out. Then she'll be better able to tell you about it. If you're a good boy.

Of course, not trying to stop her, your marriage is not going to be real great either.

You can't win this one. But you can lose less, and she'll get more fun out of it even if you don't. It's not meant for you to have fun with this, it's meant for her to have fun. Don't fuck it up, horse.

Sit back and think of all the women you fucked, or wanted to fuck.

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Disagree with PJVL9.

Whatever happens next Thursday day,confront your wife- she's using a change of venue as a means to justify going through with this massage Which is disrespecting you and the marriage .In my book this is cheating.

Agree with SUSIEDQQ ask her how she finally end up dealing with the message she wanted?

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Thanks for your response.

I respectfully disagree with your suggestions on what I should do in my situation. It may be good for some folks but I don't think I could stay in a marriage like yours. I took my marriage vowels seriously 52 years ago when I married my wife and none of them included what you describe. I suppose I would be considered naïve by many but that is OK with me.

As to the following questions in your reply;

1.)In all your years with, her, you've never screwed behind her back once, right?

ANSWER: NEVER. We were both "virgins" when we got married and to my knowledge she has never been with another man.

2.) Let's say you haven't, but have you ever tried to make it with a woman during your marriage, and your effort were not successful?

ANSWER: No. My wife has always taken good care of me both physically and sexually and I have never been inclined to see if I could score with another women.

3.) Not even once, right? I don't know about that one.


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I appreciate everybody's calm response.

But I would like to add, I wouldn't get too nosy.

In my case, in a way, I didn't really want to know. My brain helped me out and put me in denial.

I read that people who are held captive, take on the beliefs of their captors, and if released, can see their captors for what they were: crooks.

But its for survival purposes. It has to appear that you absolutely do not believe that your captors are bad, in the hopes they won't harm you worse.

For 29 years, I choose to believe my wife's denials (but we still didn't get along because of that situation).

When I walked into my house after her funeral (she died of a long illness, she smoked)I first listened to the silence. I then fully realized, she's not here, and she's not coming back.

My mind then said, you can think of anything you want, and there will be no harm to you, and you can come to any conclusion, and there will be no harm to you.

I said to myself, "I want to think if my wife had an affair." And my brain permitted that for the first time in 29 years.

And then I thought about that for about a second, thinking of 2 or 3 reasons that lined up pointed to that: and I said to myself for the first time in 29 years: "She did have an affair."

And that broke the dam. For several years, I wrote probably 200 pages of notes of how she did have an affair, and the signs of that. My brain figured out everything about that.

Even after a year of thinking about that, I figured out more the second year, based on data I figured out the first year. Same with the third year.

So, I was right. I was living with a monster, and you don't really want to know if you're living with a monster, when 1. you have a young child you want to have a mother and a father in the home. 2. You have a house you're buying together and you don't want to lose the house, which will one day be paid for, and one day will go to your child, mortgage free. 3. You want to stay married for companionship, and two paychecks are better than one.

And all you have to do to have all of that is to not come to any conclusions, or any wrong conclusions. So when I she said she wasn't having an affair, I choose to believe it. What a cop out. But it saved me.

What did I get for it? I got the house, I got to be with my child, he got to have a mother and father in the home, I'm now living in the house mortgage free that she more than half paid for, our child will inherit a free house one day.

I fought for that for 29 years, by simply not believing she was a monster. She was. And she demonstrated that everyday for about 20 years when the marriage stopped the affairs, and she took it out on me for those 20 years.

I didn't stop her, I didn't know for sure she was having an affair, but our son grew up and knew what the phone calls were about, and she couldn't receive the phone calls any more when I didn't get home from work at 5 or 6, and couldn't keep telling our son that she was an hour and a half late getting home from work because, "I had to stop by the grocery store."

So, that stopped the affairs, not me. I also finally figured out, I couldn't have stopped the affairs, anyway. If caught, she would have simply said, and did say, "If you're upset by this, why don't you leave?"

So, all I could have done was leave, or stay in a situation where she would come in 90 minutes late 3 or 4 days a week, and hear her say she had been to the store. Even if I said, where are items you bought, she would have said, "They didn't have what I was looking for."

That's chilling.

The only thing worse than your wife having an affair behind your back, is her having it in front of you.

When I told this story to a woman some 20 years ago, she topped my story with one about her handicapped son.

She said her son's wife would tell him, let's say on Friday and/or Saturday nights, "I'm going out for awhile tonight. Take care of the kids," and would get dolled up and head for a night club, or head for a motel room or an apartment to re-date a guy she had already met in a night club.

She would come back in at 2 or 3 in the morning, or later the next day, hair disheveled, dress wrinkled, lipstick smeared, alcohol on her breath, stumpling, glancing at her husband as she walked across the living room, saying,

"What are you looking at, you worthless son of a bitch? You got a problem with this? It's none of your fucking business where I've been and what I've been doing and with who, you piece of shit.

"You'd be doing the same thing, if you could!!!!"

"Let's just say, I've been having fun, you bastard.

"Now, follow me back to the bedroom, and let me re-live some of it.

"I might even be nice and tell you some of the details. You'll have to settle for sloppy seconds, or thirds as the case may be, or you won't get any this week.

"Yeah, it's going to be sloppy. Let's just say he had a friend. And that friend had a woman friend, and she and I got along really good. And she taught me some things. And we put on a show for the guys, just us two girls on the same bed. It was fun. And then I did her. And then we helped the guys get off. Can you can dig it?"

That's why I didn't get too smart about whether my wife was having an affair. I really didn't want to know.

I didn't want to know if I was living with a monster, which I was. I also didn't want to be in a steady state of anger, maybe fury, if I did figure out she was having an affair. We never at meals together, I knew all I needed to know.

I was sexually abused, as she was, so that was probably one reason we had anything in common and understood one another.

What would have happened if she had driven me off, or I left on my own accord?

One, our son would have no father in the home. Two, the house may have been lost, the funds divided, funds spent, we both live in apartments, the son inherits no house.

As it was, I stuck it out, she passed away from a long illness, the son got a mother and father in the home, I got the house, I got the house without her in it, I got the house which had no mortgage, our son will get the house one day--take all of that off the table if I leave. I got her retirement. I look like a genius.

If I been strong and left, our son and I would have gotten none of that.

So, we're back to your situation. I'm telling you this for I'm telling you I, and others, have been through this. As I said in my first post, there is no way to win this.

Oh, in my first post, I guess it could be said I was giving you a gut check.

Figuring out if you are a slop. If you've done worse than you think she might be fixing to. Trying to look for an out for you. Hey, you've done worse buddy, look at it that way.

Also, trying to figure if you expect perfection from females, and you won't settle for anything else. I was saying, "Lighten up. Nobody's perfect. I mean, decades of a good marriage, and she makes one mistake and you're out the door with that?"

I didn't want you to be too picky. I mean life is not perfect. Your marriage has been. I was saying, how can she stand up to too much scrunity? Give her some breathing.

But now that we've established maybe neither of those two things is true, we come to, what the hell is this?

I don't know that I have an answer. I was going around to people also, when I first realized my wife was most probably having an affair. Everybody just looked back at me, also. Well......

It is hell. There is no answer. In my case, my wife was a monster (because of her sex abused childhood). In your case, your wife is an angel who is setting up a situation where she could stray.

My situation was hellacious. Your situation is hellacious. They're both horrible. Again, I don't know what the answer is.

I can remember sitting in the bedroom, playing sad songs on the guitar, when my told me absolutely not was I going to a social situation where her boyfriend and his wife and my wife and others would be, but I was not to go, wondering what that was about. It turned out, I wasn't supposed to meet her boyfriends wife, so that she and I couldn't call one another and compare notes, etc.

But I remember that, "Oh, my god!" feeling for several hours until she got back, and then she wanted to have sex thinking of him, early efforts to drive me off once I knew what was going on.

I would not read her e-mail anymore, for privacy reasons, and it will drive you crazy. Not reading it will drive you crazy. Trying to catch them will drive you crazy, not trying to catch them will drive you crazy.

You can ask her, "Why did you switch to a male messauger?" Why did you want to go to his apartment? Why did you switch it to your place of business?"

"Is he going to touch you on your privates? Will that lead you to have sex with him? Arte you going to have sex with him?"

"Would you mind if I was in the room when he gives you a message?"

That's what I did with my wife. Whenever she and I were alone in the same room, I would ask questions. That was the only marriage we had. Me asking her questions. Her not telling the truth, and trying to drive me off with her answers.

You're not the only one in a bind. She is gaining something through sex,but she's losing something, as you are: peace in the house. So, you're not the only one going through tough times. She is too.

You can let her now that, by the only time you talk, is asking her those questions. Never eating a meal together. You can't stop her from having sex, and she can't stop you from ending the marriage, the good part. So, you're not alone, and the only one's who's hurting.

So, start your own life. One good thing, you don't have to continue to be around the witch. There's no guarantees. Be positive you can start you own life. Inside the same house or out. Start your own life. You aren't dead. You just aren't married anymore.

As I said, there are no guarantees. You can't control her. You can't stop her from cheating. You can start your own life. She doesn't control you.

Her cheating doesn't mean she now has full control of you. She doesn't. Start your own life. Decide whether you want to leave. Ask her a few questions a few times, make note of her answers, and if you think she's not the one for you, leave, or tell her to get out, or both of you leave.

I would also stay positive. It's not the end of the world. It's the end of your marriage.

Or, try to make it work. If you think she's worth fighting for, fight.

If you can forgive her for a mistake, forgive her.

If she can show she wants to keep the marriage going, give her the chance to fight for you.

Plenty of marriages have survived an affair. Life is not perfect. People are not perfect. Maybe this break will help in the long run.

You have conveyed to this group that your wife is a wonderful woman. Now its time for you to believe that.

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Hi, Is your wife still planning on keeping this Thursday session with Mr. Wonderful? Any new developments..

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As far as I know she is on for tomorrow to meet with him at her studio at 1:00 PM. My hope is that she will get cold feet and cancel like she has for the past two weeks and keep her promise to me that she would not let this guy lay a hand on her, clothed or naked. I plan on being there to see if she goes through with it. If so, than I will give them a 15 minute head start to do whatever they are going to do and casually let myself in to the studio with my key. I have thought about this scenario constantly since this whole thing started and it's driving me bonkers. I have got to know one way or the other. If I find them in a "compromising" position I will indeed file for divorce after almost 52 years of marriage, as I don't think I could forgive her for betraying me in that fashion. I really hope she doesn't go through with it as I still love her deeply at this point in time. I know that if she does our two grown daughters will be devastated by such an act on her part. Tomorrow is the day that will tell the story, hopefully it will not end in tragedy to my marriage.

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Don't make any decisions based your feelings of hurt and betrayal in the heat of the moment. Understand that she may be "attracted to his attention" and he may be attracted to her wallet. Also your issue is with your wife not him..

I truly understand what you're going through...

My fingers are crossed :) Here if you want to talk...

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Yes. Or, WJ, she could simply be ready to spread her wings more these days, in the process rebelling against your erstwhile level of protectiveness yet, in so doing, propelling herself into a potentially iffy situation.

Please do us the honour of an update once you know what's what, WJ?

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Well folks the wait is over. I drove to my wife’s studio at 12:30 this day and parked across the street in an out of the way spot so that I could still see the only door leading into her studio. I have brought with me a small video camera to document what I might observe. At 12:45 Mr. Wonderful shows up and goes inside carrying what looked to be a massage table. My wife opens the door for him and they disappear inside. I’m totally in shock and not wanting to believe what I have just seen. She finally did the deed and didn’t cancel her 3rd appointment with him. At this point I am a bundle of nerves and shaking all over.

I wait until about 1:20, my gut wrenching all the while, before I ease across the street to the door of her studio. There is a small reception office just inside the front door with a short hallway that leads into her studio. I detect no movement in the office, so I quietly let myself inside. I can hear them talking and laughing in the studio. There just happens to be a mirror on the wall in the hallway facing the door into the studio. Standing in the office and looking into the mirror you can see about 80% of the studio space.

Sure enough there she is lying on the massage table face down with only a towel draped across her midsection. He is busy massaging her legs with vigor and slowly working his way up. He starts massaging her inside thighs and she starts telling him that really feels good. First thing you know she turns over and he starts making his move. He undresses and climbs up on the massage table. They make out for a short while and then engage in intercourse. My whole world has just fallen and crushed me. I have tears in my eyes and can hardly contain myself. I have my video camera going and capture the whole ordeal via the reflection in the mirror.

I stepped into the studio and “cleared” my throat to get their attention while pointing the camera directly at them while they are still engaged in intercourse. They both look my way, he jumps off of her and the table and say’s, “who the hell are you.” I inform him that I am the husband of the women you’re having intercourse with and I believe that it is time for you to leave. He rapidly starts dressing and getting his shit together to get the hell out of there. My wife gets off the table and covers herself with a towel. She keeps saying over and over to me that she is so SORRY with tears flowing. I really didn’t mean for this to go as far as it did, I just got caught up in the moment.

My only comment to her was; I’ve been faithful to you for almost 52 years, I’ve never wavered from the vows I took on our wedding day. If you have anything to say from here on out, speak to my lawyer.

I have returned home and made an appointment with a lawyer who specializes in divorce for next Monday, the 4th of April. Ironically the 4th of April is our 52nd wedding anniversary.

I guess this brings this thread to a close as there isn’t anything left to tell.

Thanks to all who responded and offered suggestions and help. Peace.

Worried Joe

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That is more than I can comprehend.

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Ya just can't make up this stuff - or can you?

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Hi WORRIEDJOE I think we all new what was up but was hoping for the best. Would you consider counseling to help you handle the emotional roller coaster you will no doubt be going through.

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Needless to say I am an emotional wreck at this time. It is very hard for me to grasp that the love of my life would do something like this. You would think that after being with same individual for 54 years, 52 married, that you would know the person inside and out. I never saw this coming. To me there were no outward signs on her part that would lead me to suspect that there was anything amiss. Like I stated, this all started about 3 weeks ago when she told me was getting a free massage at Mr. Wonderful’s private residence. That alone shocked me, as it was just not the way she rolled. It’s obvious from the end results of this episode that I really didn’t know her that well.

I am dreading contacting our daughters to inform them of what has taken place. Both daughters are very close to their mother and are going to be in complete shock when told. They have planned a dinner get together with friends and family for next Saturday April 9th to celebrate our 52nd anniversary. I’m sure they are going to try and fix the problem but that is not going to happen. If the incident had been just a massage and nothing else, I believe I could forgive her for the transgression of lying to me,but for taking it as far as she did, no way.

As far as counseling goes I am open to it. If someone can help me get over the pain that I am feeling I certainly would endorse it. I have never felt pain like this and certainly don’t want it to go on and ruin the rest of my life. Counseling to try and mend this broken fence and stay together is not an option for me. Maybe I will feel differently as time passes but the hurt is so deep and cutting that at the present time I feel there is no hope that I could forgive her for what she has done. I haven’t got that many years before I’m toast and I would like to enjoy them pain free. I thought that she and I would ride the road of life together until one of us was gone but right now it looks as though I will ride it alone.

Thanks for your caring.

Worried Joe

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Aw, sh*te.

You poor man. :-(

Emotional wreck? That you can even TYPE and keep your 'obligation' to debrief us right now is huge testimony to your strength of mind and character, Joe. (PS: Are you an ex-copper? You talk like one, see.)

'...And I thought I knew him/her SO WELL'. Textbook betrayee vocalisation.

Hey, people don't even know THEMSELVES well enough, let alone other people! Hence this forum exists.

Listen, I know it'll sound like cold comfort right now, but please believe me when I say: life/fate has a funny way of doing people favours. And the more painful the 'changeover' (or life-track shunt), the bigger the eventually emerging favour. I've been studying and watching it like a hawk my whole life (no exaggeration) - and not just in my own life - so feel wholly qualified, now, to say that's utterly true. No pain, no gain. Huge pain, huge gain. Or 'Blessings in disguise', remember?

It could well be that the favour is in your finding out sooner - rather than later, when you'd REALLY need huge love and loyalty - that this woman wouldn't have been capable of cutting the doting mustard. For example, you might need nursing or tending daily one day, at home, bed-ridden. Imagine it...How horrid, how nightmare-ish, to find yourself as helpless and vulnerable as a newborn and not have someone you can depend and rely on, whose hands into which you could completely, assuredly place yourself and your day-to-day basic comfort and welfare levels?

Maybe now it'll be your daughters to whom your care would, decades from now, fall, and do far better than she ever could? Maybe, to your abject surprise and astonishment, you'll meet the woman of your dreams in a year or so from now as puts what you had with your wife/ex2b distinctly in the shade? How could either of those happen if you were still mentally as well as actually unavailable come the time? Maybe you had to freed up - and quick-sharp about it?

Was this her first affair, should we presume? Or not? Or is 'affair' too strong and it's just about her needing more regular s*x(?) or to sample someone different before it's decidedly too late, because she didn't get to experiment at all when younger(?), but dealing with it the wrong way rather than what a wife *should* do, which is, confess honestly to you how she's feeling and seek your full blessing about acquiring that one, missing, purely physical element from 'outside' so that she didn't *need* to consider the inconceivable of leaving you? But what would that 'brilliant solution' suggest, anyway, in regards to how dependable she'd be once you needed that quality (possibly 24/7)?

It all boils down to one thing: Not good enough for someone like you full-stop. Or not good enough to last the entire, faithful course. Or 'never was good enough' apparent, but you put on your blinkers and settled? Or good enough were it not for experiencing a huge personal crisis over her, by-now, beginning-to-fail looks and figure and needing 'objective, non-biased' reassurance?

But it's not for you or I to say what's what. It's up to convince you it was a one-off blip that'll never, EVER get repeated, ending up a timely opportunity to go on to affair-proof what was obviously not an affair-proofed marriage. So watch her space (and never pre-order egg on your face by saying, 'never'. If 'never' were true every time it were uttered, you'd still be refusing to use the big boy's toilet (think about it).

It's not the crime, Joe, it's the time.

Now think about the agony of childbirth. Does *that* automatically always end in a horrid result, a worse-off? There you go, then. Keep focussing on that, it'll help see you through (to 'the baby's head eventually crowning').

Yes, you did sense something was up. Your feet (trailing her, taking the video camera in readiness) 'said' so. You just hadn't registered it fully enough on the conscious level, that's all.

You have no evidence, not even any indicators, that you'll 'ride it alone'. None. Not even whatever's happened to you in the past. And that - REGARDLESS of Autumnal ages - is not what generally results after an event like this, even IF the marriage cannot be saved and fixed. Men and women are magnets, with slight variations in 'frequency' (mixed metaphors, sorry). They 'find' each other, whether they think themselves capable and whether they want to or not. (CLUNK!...well, he-LLLOOO, gorgeous!) ...But I appreciate you won't be interested in thinking that far ahead right now, you're too busy trying to deal with this (scuse French) headf**k, this 'invasion of the body-snatchers'.

Don't feel you have to exit this thread, now that you've experienced this seeming denouement. Keep talking. I'll give you special dispensation to vent and swear your face off if you at any point whatsoever need that freedom and don't have the headspace to remember your asterisks [cough-cough!, PJ]. Starting now.

Skinnygirl et al aren't going anywhere, I'm sure, and I'll keep an eye out, too. Keep talking, it DOES ease the pain considerably.

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Worried Joe, please keep us updated on what is happening.

This must have been a dreadful shock after 52 years of marriage.

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HI Joe, SOULMATE is right we're all be here whenever you want to talk. I can relate to your pain and hurt I expierence the same type pf betrayal At first the pain consumed my entire being. So I feel you.

You are your priority now. As the saying goes "Time heals all wounds" it's true.

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What's been happening, Joe? Can you tell us?

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Hello SoulMate,

Much has transpired in the past week and a half and I have been very busy trying to take care of needed business.
On Thursday the 31st of March when the wife was caught with Mr. Wonderful having intercourse in her Pilate’s studio, she waited about 3-4 hours before showing her face at home. She was so shook up when I caught them about the only thing she could do was say I’m sorry and cry. Like I stated in my prior post I went directly home and contacted my lawyer with an appointment made for the following Monday the 4th of April, our 52 wedding anniversary.

She came home all teary eyed begging me to sit down and talk. I told her, you do the talking I’m not the one who is guilty of breaking our marriage vows. She carried on pleading with me to forgive her. Give me another chance to make it right, “I’ll get counseling routine”, I want to save our marriage, I still love you like I did the day we got married etc. etc. I didn’t respond except to say to her, “When you play with fire you will eventually get burned.”

I ask her if she wanted me to contact our daughters or did she want to be the one to tell them what she had done. Her answer was; please don’t contact them, we can work this out. Sure we can sweetheart, between our lawyers. From her answer I deducted that she wasn’t going to do it, so I did it that evening. Set up a meeting between myself and daughters for Saturday over lunch. I didn’t see her until late Friday afternoon when she came home from her work. She was a complete mess, looked as though she had been through the wash. She still wanted to sit down and talk but I told her no, I have nothing to talk about.

I met with my daughters for lunch on Saturday and told them what had transpired, from the beginning up to her physical engagement with Mr. Wonderful. They were both completely flabbergasted and didn’t want to believe what I was telling them. I told them to confront her and ask her directly if what I had told them was the truth. They both reported back that what I told them was the truth and they were so sorry that this happened after almost 52 years. Needless to say they cancelled the dinner they had worked so hard to provide for us for our 52nd anniversary.

I met with my lawyer on the 4th and all the paper work is being drawn up for our divorce. She has moved out of the house, to where I don’t know or give a damn. She has left several voice mails and emails asking to get together and talk. I’ve not responded to her as of this date.

I’m a complete wreck both mentally and physically. To love someone with your whole heart and soul for over 52 years is not easy to forget. I’m sure I will never be over her, she’s been an intricate part of my life for too many years to forget easily, yet I will never forgive her for the hurt she has put upon me. I do have good medical/mental health coverage and plan on making an appointment with a psychologist to help me get my head in order; I don’t think I can do it alone. This ordeal has taken its toll on both my daughters; they are just stunned that she could have allowed herself to do such a thing.

Thanks to all who responded and cared to this thread.

Worried Joe

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Hi WORRIEDJOE Good to hear from you :) Having had the same experience your thread stayed with me. I wished I had been as decisive/ straightforward as you were. You handled your business like the businessman you are 1,2,3, all deliverables done. You were able to departmentalize your head from your heart I admire that strength.

To me betrayal of infidelity feels like a death. You will never forget it because it changes you, so you learn to live with it. The mechanics of divorcing and separating your lives are the easy parts, the emotional pain/hurt and the effect it will have to your family will take time.

Please keep in touch.

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Worried Joe:

I think you're right in this situation.

I would like to add that, as you age, you're probably going to need home health care.

I've had it for 5 years or so. I can tell you it has its ups and downs.

Some are caring, some are not. Some are honest, some are not.

It is not the same as having a caring relative take care of you, which I've never had, myself, especially in the long term.

Should you get into a medical situation, you might be caught in a difficult problem.

So I just mention that, when you close the door with your wife, you're opening it up to good and bad with home health care, especially as you advance in age.

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THANK GOO FOR DAUGHTERS!!!(and a few Sons) Good point PJVL9 I hadn't thought of this mainly because I'm not there yet. I have 2 sons I'm giving it some thought now :}

So if I were a Single Senior Man attending Nurse Conventions wouldn't be a bad idea (I'm just saying..haha LOL!!) Just kidding :)

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Sorry- please forgive the misspelling meant "THANK GOD FOR DAUGHTERS!!!

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"To love someone with your whole heart and soul for over 52 years is not easy to forget."

TELL me about it! Ye gods. That's what you call a 50ft emotional tsunami!

No, you won't 'get over' her. Nobody 'gets over' anything. The whole episode, including the however-much tarnished memories(?), is now a weight around both ankles. So from here on in is about you getting used to that weight until the day when you suddenly realise you can walk normally again, with a straight and upright gait, possibly taller than ever before (and definitely more muscley-legged), and 'forget to remember' that the weight's there and how it got there. But like I say, this all might be a small price to pay for what's in store, the unseen reason behind why you were so swiftly and drastically despatched to the position you're now in. Frustrating though the wait to find out is, find out you will, that I absolutely guarantee you. Nothing has been a waste of time...if that's how you're feeling?

No such thing as accidents, no such thing as coincidences... there is just human defeatism with dismissive words invented to suit, as in, 'Ohh, I can't possibly work it out, and neither have I got the time, so let's just call it X / Y / Z'. (And apparently, the earth used to - fact - be flat.)

So aren't you even curious to hear out her 'reasons' or what the beeping hell she was thinking? And don't you believe in giving second chances, just in case the first transgression were itself a 'pre-designed' manoeuvring?...perhaps even for the purposes of unearthing and dissolving all undesirable or under-par elements that had for too long existed in your marriage so as to encourage you both to re-train and promote it way beyond where it stood, calibre-wise?

Put it this way. If someone/some-'thing' had foretold you, weeks or months back, that because of AND VIA some horrid event, you and the missus, if you stayed together following a period of 'emotional homework', would end up affair-proofed and much, much more happy and loved-up (AND more equal-footed via all past imbalances now redressed) than you'd ever thought possible - what would you have said? Yes please or no thanks?

(Just out of interest?)

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(SK, thank Goo you cleared that up! ;-D)

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I hadn't thought about the daughters, but skinnygirl did.

There's a saying:

"A son is a son, until he takes a wife.

"A daughter is a daughter for life."

So, that's a good point. I only need home health care every now and then. I don't have to have it 24 hours a day.

So, many health problems can be tended to with a phone call, a trip to the grocery store to pick up groceries once a week or so, or taking the person to the doctor once a month or so.

A daughter could make the phone call every few days, and get some groceries after work, if she works.

If she can't take him to the doctor, because she works, he could call a home health care agency and get registered with them, and tell them that: I'll only need you every 2 or 3 weeks to go to the doctors, or whatever, so you don't have to get that agency service once or twice a week, as I've had it for some 5 years, just call them when you need them.

I also use that service for socialization, as I do this website, since it puts me around people, whereas without that I would be lacking in that area.

Also, if its putting too much on the daughters, we can just go ahead and get the home health agency to get the groceries, also. That way, the daughters just have to call every week or so.

There are good helpers, and the home health agencies don't charge like a nurse would, so the rates can be very reasonable. And if there's one person you like, you can ask to have that one again, cutting down on the chance of a bad one. But if you don't get them, say, twice a week on a regular basis, you may not be able to get the same one over and over. You just have to see what works.

It took me awhile to remember home health agencies. I had this guy who cut my grass helping me, and he turned on me, and it took me awhile to get free from that. If you're with an agency, you can change people really quick, just ask them to send someone else. But with one person, it's not as easy, for who do you get to replace them?

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Joe -

Aren't you just a LITTLE curious about what is was that created this whole situation?

After 52 years, she owes you an explanation.

Counseling - even during divorce proceedings - could help answer questions and help you cope in the future days.

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"After 52 years, she owes you an explanation."

God, yes!

Joe, is she (understandably) pestering you by phone and what-not for a chance to explain, still? If so, and what with, I imagine, you unable to sit in the same room as her right now (10ft neon insult sign on-legs that she represents) - have you thought about telling her to put everything she wants to say in an emailed letter?

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Good morning all;
I thank each one of you for your thoughts and suggestions. I haven’t got time to answer each individual reply, so will try my best to address some of the questions asked and comment on suggestions.
First off my mental faculties are in a shambles. I have an appointment with a psychologist on 4-18 in hopes he/she can guide me in overcoming the grief I have been dealt. My daughters have been very supportive and helpful but are both still in shock as to what has transpired. Both are very close to their mother and I hope that closeness remains. They both hope that the marriage can be saved and have conveyed that to both of us. I’ve already informed them that my plan at the present time is divorce. They both understand where I am coming from but have asked me to reconsider, at least to sit down with her and hear what she has to say. At the present time I’m just not ready to do that.

To those who ask about wanting to know why she did what she did, the answer is YES. I fully agree that she owes me an explanation, especially after being married and faithful to her for 52 years. She also owes her daughters an explanation as to her indiscretions. At this point in time it would be very hard for me to have a face to face meeting with her and the suggestion that she explain herself in a letter or e-mail is a good one that I will forward to her. She has constantly left voice messages on the answering machine and sent numerous e-mails asking to get together and talk. Thus far I have ignored them.

Since the “incident” took place on March 31st, I have given a lot of thought as to why she allowed herself to stray from the marriage after all this time. We have always had an open discussion regarding sex. We have discussed in detail what we both like/dislike, how often we had sex, if each of us was being satisfied by the other etc. Never in our 52 year marriage has there been any indication of being unsatisfied by the other with our sex lives. I have always made it a point to tell her just how much I treasure our intimate time together with the hope that it can go on until the day I die. The last few years we have slowed down having sex compared to what we did when we were younger but we still enjoy having it twice a week like clockwork. I think that is about right for our ages, 76 and 72. What really puzzles me is that she is very cautious around other males and I just don’t understand how she agreed to go to Mr. Wonderful’s apartment in the first place. It is so out of character for her to do so. I guess the only way I will ever find out the truth is to ask her face to face what made her do it. I know one thing for sure that if I were her I would have myself checked for STD’s ASAP. No telling wit who Mr. Wonderful has been having sex with.

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions, they have been helpful.

Worried Joe

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What's Mr. Wonderful's age?

Your wife could have been seduced by a younger man paying attention to her, and being used ($$)

Check the savings and checking account. This guy could have been using her for more than you think.

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John Walsh, host of America's Most Wanted TV show on crime for some 10 years, had a smiliar situation with his wife.

They took in a college age border, and after John went to work, his wife and this some 20-year-old male, had sex a number of times and eventually John found out about it.

(My initial thinking was, "Who would leave their wife home with a 20-year old?")

But then my wife, who was sex abused and that's all she knew, had outside set over 2,000 times, as I figure it, during a 16 year span, so who am I to question anything such thing?)

But I've heard that Walsh and his wife got back together. I admire that. (He may have screwed around on her a few times, also. I must mention that because his situation may be different than yours.

Are you mad at her because she one-upped you? Are you mad at her because she's not perfect? Are you a perfectionist?

Look up "perfectionist" on the web and see. Are other things in your life, do they have to be perfect?

Did you expect your daughters to be perfect, or they caught it?

What was your relationship like with your daughters?

Do you expect perfection from people at work?

Were your parents perfectionists?

Do you think your life is going to be perfect should the divorce go through?

If you marry someone else, do you think she is going to be better than your wife? I don't.

Are you obsessive/compulsive? You can look that up on the net. Are you obsessed with perfection?

I had two bosses that I'm thinking of. One was laid back (he fired me anyway), and one was an obsessive/compulsive perfectionist, who hawked over everybody. He micromanaged. (he fired me also. I'm a manic depressive who can't do anything right. You and I would not get along.

The 2nd boss was so micro managing that they finally had it so he could send his work on the computer, and didn't have to come into the office, and they let someone else run the office. So he was overbearing. And I had my problems, also.

I just don't want you riding herd on her. I tend to pull for the female, by the way, so you aren't gong to win this one with me.

But I do know what being cheated on feels like. I do know what it feel like for both of us not want to eat supper with each other when we are alone in the house.

What you don't know is what it feels like to be stuck in a house for 29 years with a woman you despise, and with a woman who despises you.

What I don't know is what it would be like to be in a position to leave such a situation. Our child was almost 4 when this happened, not grown like yours, so my position was, I wasn't going anywhere when she was the one who got caught.

I wasn't leaving my child, my house, or have our son grow up without a father in the home.

But when he left at say 21, I still wasn't going anywhere, because the house was almost paid for, I didn't have enough finances to leave, I had emotional problems and didn't know if I could make it on my own, and, she was the one who messed up why should be the one who was penalized. She also didn't leave, for some of the same reasons.

I think an e-mail from her wold be a good thing, also.

To, what, error is human, to forgive divine.

"He who is without sin, cast the first stone."

Nobody threw any rocks, Joe.

One of the problems in my sit. was my wife wouldn't talk to me. Your wife sounds like a talker. My wife was sex abused, and never talked much anyway. So, it was impossible. I wouldn't have believed her anyway.

If you can't even stand the thought of sitting down having supper wit her, I'll know what you're going through. Then again, John Walsh did it. So, we'll just have to see.

She's 72, Joe. Protect her. From yourself.

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'To err is human, to forgive is divine'. How convenient a saying for transgressors or those who deep-down suspect they'll one day need it for escaping the workload of trying to atone, to bandy around.

As I understand it, Forgiveness is not something to dish out self-aggrandising-ly at will as if we're Jesus reincarnate himself. It's a response to a sincere request for such, made verbally and backed up in-motion (behaviourally). Without that, it's just an acceptance on your part of the transgression itself and that that particular person made it AND THAT YOU YOURSELF COULD IMAGINE FALLING PREY TO IT (thereby incapable of casting the first stone). Plus, making the conscious choice to cheat sexually and break the marital vow when no-one's forcing you to (e.g. has put a gun to your head) is not a mistake or error. It's ARROGANCE - feeling sure the other will never, ever find out or taking for granted that the other needs/wants you/the relationship so incredibly much that they're bound to let you get away with it.

Just trust me, just forgive me... NO. Those things between people *not* genetically linked (related) have to be *earned*, hence business owners/employers give new employees a TRIAL PERIOD plus the inability for a year to claim dismissal were Unfair should they fail said trial...time IN WHICH TO PROVE THEMSELVES.

Trust is just another word for being able to predict someone's feelings and reactions in whatever unknown scenario(s) because you've too many times fully witnessed how they react in relate-able situations or ones in the same or similar vein (- "oh, I know him/her, s/he'd *never* do anything like that!...and I know that because, once... (etc.)"). If they veer too wildly from that script, trust gets broken or shown to have been however much lacking all along.

Let's see her start to try to super-glue that now badly shattered vase, shall we, rather than just get to point at it, say 'SO-REEEEE!' and expect that to be all it takes and/or to wait for Joe to dustpan-brush it up and sit at the dining table with the glue-tube on his ownio.

Here's me being sorry for cheating on Mr Soulmate: [....imagining ever doing devastated he'd utterly self-disgusted I'd feel....the devastated I'd be... him quite possibly dumping me on the spot....imagining, imagining...] = I WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING THAT SH*TTY TO HIM (AND MYSELF AND WHAT WE HAVE) = doesn't ever happen, even remotely, in the first place. It's called deterrent.

(What happened to her deterrent, Joe?)

Make her sweat, Joe. Make her have to visibly fight to keep this relationship (since she was the one who went and smashed it on the floor, whether she knew you'd know about it or not). I'll say it again: it's not the crime, it's the TIME. The TIME being willingly and wholheartedly served - starting from Square X to rebuild the smashed portion of trust, etc. - is what proves the crime to have been a strange and uncharacteristic, one-off, never-to-be-repeated blip (mid life crisis re her finally fading looks/body, I still reckon). After all, people don't *like* making mistakes; they *want* the opportunity to make it up to you; they *want* to be given such a hard time as a result in order to earn themselves a future deterrent. Berbom.

Should I or shouldn't i

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SOULMATE: You said "Make her have to visibly fight to keep this relationship" What could she visibly do to restore/make right the relationship? How does anyone make it up to you?

Should I or shouldn't i

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(Sorry, SK, you know I would if I could, but at this juncture it really needs to be Joe who asks that question. And answers it, in fact. Hope you can understand?)

Should I or shouldn't i

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I totally understand :)

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