Now - me and my wife are both procrastinators by nature so we tend to make a lot of plans for things that never happen. I've become increasingly frustrated with this situation, though. I've tried to discuss this, but because of the way I am it usually ends up devolving into an argument and I feel like she doesn't listen. Though whether it's stubbornly refusing to listen or shutting down because of the argument, I don't know.
I've been on night work since before we got married and she's on day work. So I see my wife rarely as it is except on my days off between work and sleep.
The elephant in the room as it were, though, is the fact that my wife can't have kids. I feel horrible being upset by this. I was OK with it, since there's other avenues you can explore if you want a kid. Thing is, that's one of the things we keep planning on and never doing. As I said, I was OK with it but as of late I've started realizing kids are more important to me than I thought. But I feel bad because I feel like it's getting angry with my wife for something that's not her fault.
It's getting to a point that certain topics, our situation or kids, I won't even bring up because I feel like the responses I get are just to get me to shut up and then nothing ever changes.
I think that's a factor in the co-worker thing - in addition to the fact that I just consider her attractive, she has kids from a previous marriage and whether there would ever be any more or not, it's kids in the house, you know? A family. That's a good summation of the whole problem, I feel like me and my wife are two people who live together rather than a family. The house doesn't feel like a home.
Now as a footnote I should also add that financially I don't know about it. I feel like I make decent money at my job, but apparently not, me and my wife together are barely making it and I don't know about solo. But the financial thing's not a good reason to stay if it's not working.
I dunno. Advice?
Was this discussed BEFORE the marriage? If so, why didn't you two explore adoption?
But on the other hand, the co-worker thing is becoming more prevalent. I can't hardly keep her out of my head, now. People have suggested it might be more a thing of me identifying certain traits and ways I want my marriage to be... and that might be the case. But I'm still very conflicted on that. It may be projection, but I still think I have real feelings for this woman. I've made what may be a mistake and talked to her about the situation, leaving out the fact that I feel like I'm drawn to her more and more... although I did mention that I was thinking about someone else. I don't know if she figured out I was talking about her or not.
I suppose part of the situation is that I'm still sometimes feeling as if I got married too early. While I was 31, and a lot of people are already married for several years by then... I always had self-esteem issues growing up and it honestly ended up being until I was fairly late in my 20s until I ended up with a serious relationship, and then only two or three relationships before that. In a way, I feel like I never really had much time to be single, or much actual fulfilling time being single I should say... I feel a little bit like I jumped the gun and married the first serious girlfriend I had, and now I'm rethinking that and seeing someone else I think I would strongly entertain the possibility of being with.
I just feel like my brain's going in two directions at once. Part of me wants to work on saving my marriage, and part of me, honestly, doesn't. I feel like I almost need to tell the co-worker outright I have feelings for her, and maybe knowing where she stands on the matter would help me make my decision, but then that in itself would get tricky because if her feelings aren't lining up with mine I'd run the risk of losing someone who I still regardless think is a pretty good friend.
First let me say, I am sorry you and your wife are having these issues. It is so beautiful that you desire to be a father. That is such an honorable characteristic. It is also very painful for a woman to want children and not be able to have them. It brings about a sense of "not being woman enough." I am just imagining how devastated she would be if you were to go to another woman and maybe make a home with that other woman and her kids. That would be so painful to your wife, so I truly hope that you value her heart and spirit and give her more respect than that.
Can you imagine what it would be like for you all to get over this hump and then maybe adopt? Can you see you and your wife being happy with children in the house? If so, this is a problem that is fixable which means she's worth waiting and fighting for! It seems the only requirement is commitment and patience.
The co-worker knows that you are married, so to me, if I were you, I would be thinking about what kind of woman would she be if she were attracted to a married man and willing to fool around with. That doesn't show good character or judgement. The grass isn't greener on the other side. This woman will have her own issues and ticks that you don't like. Nobody is perfect!
Marriage requires work, patience, respect and love. Your wife deserves these attributes. Plan something, surprise her, make her smile again. Let her know she's loved and that she IS woman enough in your eyes! That, IMO, is the answer. Showing her more love, leads to more sex and intimacy. I hope that you put all the energy you have into your wife and stay away from the co-worker.
Best of luck to you and your wife.
Actually, the night after I saw this I feel like part of the problem may have resolved itself a bit? We were talking the other night and I think she picked up on the fact that I was developing feelings for her although I didn't actually say that... that was, like I said, how I took it, anyway. Anyhow, I feel like she let me know she's not "feeling it," whether that's actually what she was saying or not. I don't feel like she's been on my mind quite so much since, so maybe it's solved part of it, I dunno.
There was another incident the other night as well (not the same one, the next or maybe two days after?), where I thought someone was disrespecting her and just being... well, sort of assholish. This sort of thing's always been a button-pushing issue with me, I tend to get really angry if I see someone being an asshole to a woman. Turns out that's not what was going on, but I feel like I got way angrier at the situation than I normally would have and I keep asking myself if part of the reason was who it was. Not sure if I was... how would you say it... burning through the rest of my feelings for her as it were maybe?
That next day I was talking to my wife about it and mentioned that I considered this other woman a friend since she'd been helping me with things -- I know, the irony of getting advice on your marriage from someone you may have cheated with had things gone a little differently -- she eventually outright asked me if I had a thing for her. And I didn't know what to say, really, because I did. I feel stupid for even saying that. As is, I told her that if she had any need to worry about anything, I wouldn't have said anything about her in the first place.
Anyway... I think part of me knew it was a pipe dream anyway. I'm going to go to a therapist or something -- my wife said she would go too if I wanted but I feel like for now at least, most of the issues are mine. I might need to get her to come with me to try to work on communicating better. As I said in the first post, I'm bipolar, and I've found that when I'm talking about something I feel strongly about I tend to sound like I'm getting really pissed even when that's not my intention and I'd like to see if there's a way for me to not get quite so angry when speaking -- when I do that she tends to just shut down. And I do think there *are* things that need to change -- I just need to figure out how to get that across.
2. How many relationships of yours have inarguably failed as a direct result of your BD?
3. Infertile for what reason(s)?
4. When exactly was she told, how did she finally find out, and describe her reaction as well as its duration?
5. What's her relationship like with her mother and father?
2. Inarguably? I'd say none, not beyond a shadow of a doubt, anyway. Because of the exact circumstances of my history (I was on epilepsy meds for several years longer than I should have been and symptoms weren't terribly noticeable until I got off the epilepsy meds four or five years ago) the doctors aren't 100% clear to what extent I was bipolar before, and to what extent the over-medication caused things (the epilepsy medication I was on is often used to treat bipolar). By the time I got off the epilepsy meds, I was already married. There was one before that in which bipolar could have been a factor, but as I said, that might be disputable.
3. That question's something we'll need to pursue further -- I'm not certain that she actually *is*. Circumstances are that she has to be on birth control because of other medical issues she has, and when they tried to take her off it, the other issues began coming back. So I'm not sure that she is -- but these other medical issues need to be kept under control also. And as long as that's controlled, it rules out the other.
4. Shortly after we got married, they tried to take her off the birth control used to control the other medical issues, and as I said the other issues began pretty rapidly after they tried weaning her off. There honestly wasn't much of a reaction at all, to be honest. These other issues had been ongoing since around the time she was in third grade, I believe it was -- by the time we were married she was already pretty well resigned that she wouldn't be having kids, anyway. The issues coming back when they tried to wean her off just confirmed what she basically already knew. So she wasn't too surprised.
5. In what regard? Pretty close. Her mom actually died two years ago, so it's just her dad, but she's pretty close with him. I know her dad had cheated on her mom and knowing that was another reason I was so torn up over this thing. But as I said, I think the issue with the co-worker is resolved. Or were you thinking something in regards to her reactions when I try to address these issues?
You also don't have to over-react by turning your back on your commitment in order to simultaneously start a soupcon of one with someone else. Do that overkill and you'll just end up with *complete* self-loathing, but which *isn't* rectifiable. Doing a good impression of a clam or piece of duct tape stuck over your lips she may be but - I'm bigger, uglier and cleverer than her and you now have me on-board. Human problem = human solution-ZUH...just a case of finding and applying them.
2. Again - what I thought. And yes, just as 'domestic' drugs can cause or exacerbate bipolar (reactive versus innate), so too can pharmaceutical ones. Furthermore, misdiagnoses with Asperger's et al is still rife, even today, because for one thing these sorts of symptoms express most noticeably when exceptionally up-close and personal (romantic or familial relationships) for lengthily protracted periods, meaning, psychiatrists would have to benefit from living daily-intimately with someone to avoid that whole, set 'suck and see' procedure, and, secondly, bipolar is a typical comorbidity condition of ASD to whatever degree and constantly get confused. (PS: try pure Omega 3 fish oil capsules, they're miracle workers thus award-winners for homeopathically treating emotional or neurological disorders of any type (or just stress), and I can testify to that fact first- as well as second-hand.)
3. AGAIN - what I suspected. Heavily. No woman that comes programmed to want kids - a *very* strong human urge - wouldn't visibly and lengthily by whatever means be affected, if not actually devastated, on SOME discernible level, or not wish to get on without delay (particularly in their mid-thirties) with any perfectly available solutions. May BE she changed her mind for mental self-protective reasons married with pessimism - and, furthermore, a difficult menstrual cycle isn't enough on its own to counter said urge. But, irrespective, getting pregnant would have put paid to that for a while (possibly permanently), whereafter she could have gone straight back on the pill). So she should have been honest about it if that/those were the case.
Whatever - her behaviour since is a case of 'label says hot, wash says not'. And you don't need to be a very emotional type of male to find that level of disappointment and disillusionment soul-destroying, given enough time, either; men have just as much of an urge to procreate as women (MORE, actually, once they're ready!), whether or not it expresses differently.
4. Not much of a reaction at all. Right. So if we presume typical male under-statement, what you're saying is, NIL REACTION as far as you can see (and you would have with something that life-impacting).
So I agree, I don't think she's actually infertile. Therefore, what we're left with is her coming to the relationship proper, reliant on your lack of knowledge about female reproductive organs and hormones in order to sell you the story that she's infertile, and you BUYING it out of guilt for being bipolar and (I'm betting), back then, thinking self-replication probably would be a world-selfish act anyway.
5. (Yes, her reactions ...compared to the norm.)
Dad cheated on mum. Did dad think it was his only solution too/has she modelled herself on her mum and ended up replicating their dynamic as well as partner type? Cheating is NEVER acceptable and there's NEVER an excuse for it, given myriad other, long-term easier solutions, (- YOU know that, hence have only toyed with the notion in your head *and* only out of bona fide factors, including a dire sense of helplessness as well as nagging libido and an urge to create some leverage), but I'm just examining/analysing 'out-loud' the aetiology of everything. This is pretty textbook, TBH.
Consider the at-this-stage hypothesis: For whatever reasons/issues (e.g. dad cheated because mum was busy with kids = don't ever have kids), she never wanted children so presented herself as infertile, followed by 'confirming' it (once you 'pushed') - conveniently only *after* the union got legalised...yet devoid of anything concrete with which to back it up (just pithy excuses/exaggerations). For a start, were a doctor or fertility specialist obliged to newly, medically inform a married woman that she were indeed infertile, wouldn't you have thought he or she would have instructed her to bring her spouse along to the appointment, considering this crucial present and future business were as much his as hers? And yet, from what I can gather, that didn't happen. Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.
She would also have had confirmation via a consultant's follow-up letter. WHERE IS IT? Because you'd like to see it ().
This then has got COUPLED ever since, most noteably, with a permanent refusal to subject herself to any salient but perfectly circumstantially warranted and reasonable questions which, were her long-standing state genuine, you would expect her or any woman not to mind providing answers to, not least out of a sense of marital onus.
Meanwhile, she isn't interested in having anything but too-occasional sex with you, as if the act were purely functional in terms of a tangible end product (a kid), when we all know its function in context goes far further than that as well as how vital to good marital relations it is, and as if you two were not only a mismatch but one that'd remained so for *decades* rather than a piddly 8 years minus however many you've spent prevaricating. PS: Stop living in the past by still owning everyone else's issues: Discussions disintegrating into arguments because one party systematically refuses to cooperate, meanwhile pulling passive-aggressive tactics, is universal/perfectly normal and natural even for neurotypicals. And one can 'shut down' all one wants but unless they pour enough wax into their ears, their brain still takes it in, thereby leaving it possible to respond fully and maturely during subsequent, more relaxed moments. Thirdly, seeming to agree in principle is not the same as doing.
She needs to re-evaluate her life choice that she's roped (or duped?) you into enabling, and to cease trying to get fired rather than resign (as if that too is some sort of solution to this problem). But in order for that to happen, what with you for so long having accommodated this issue-avoidance tactic of hers, she's going to need a giant firework shoved up her a*se, basically. And THEN what you immediately need to do is CHANGE YOUR HOURS (or job). Because that's the crux *live* issue, here: not enough interaction as equals insufficient bonding to be powerful enough to overcome *any* prior, issue-based reticences. So what I mean is this: she could be perfectly fertile and biologically ready to have a kid, despite not feeling it on a conscious level, but if you two as a couple haven't bonded closely to that critical quantum as flicks the Suddenly Want It switch then you're on a hiding to nothing *whatever* else you try.
If that doesn't work, THEN you can react befittingly to what by then has been proven to be the writing on the wall, i.e. moreover right qualities (yours), WRONG RECIPIENT, and divorce her so that you can hitch up with a 'fully working' model (by which I don't mean Naomi Campbell, ha-ha...although, what with what I call the automatic upgrade - who knows!). And that may sound mercenary, but don't for a minute think that your urge to be a father is going to go sleepie-byes at your conscious command or be kind in how it leaks out. That way lies irreparable damage through major resentment.
Another thing to bear in mind: Just as women misguidedly latch onto the erroneous idea that home life will become unmanageably higher-maintenance without their (problematic) husband around yet then get the surprise of their life once they find the opposite's the case, you could well find your salary stretches farther when not in a marriage that leaves you needful and trying to fill those un-fill-able holes through artificial means and methods.
Back to the firework: 'Houston, we have a problem, which now is indisputable for the fact that I nearly fell prey to one of its classic, major symptoms.' If being made aware of how you encroached into 'nearly repeating her family history' territory doesn't work to make her wake up and smell the coffee toute suite, I don't know WHAT would. I note you so nearly succeeded, despite then lost your bottle at the 11th hour. So I suggest a second attempt. After all, you can't complain that someone won't be 100% truthful with you if you're guilty of the same, especially when the latter could have a distinct bearing on the former. If after you come clean she herself STILL won't, then you finally know exactly where you stand and can take appropriate measures to suit.
I'll definitely have to address the Asperger's question with my doctor as well -- that's not the first time someone's asked me about that, and researching the typical signs, not all the signs seem to fit me, but an awful lot of them do.
I definitely was planning on changing my hours. There's several daytime positions available at my work, I'm definitely going to at least be looking into those.
I'll definitely be asking some more questions now.
Well, when it comes to Asperger's, you don't have to be full-on, nor in every aspect, in which case it's a bonus...best of both worlds. And it seems to be alternately hereditary (can skip one, or even more, generations), meaning, you can be a carrier (which I call Cuspie for how they're on the cusp of the autistic spectrum) and present only a few 'whiffs' of symptoms but which added all together make you 'somehow different'. Saying that, if you got raised by an Aspie parent (and too many go their whole lives undiagnosed) then - Monkey see, monkey do - you'll behave like an Aspergic in many ways as renders you 'aspie compatible'.
Think of the human being as functioning akin to an equaliser board. A dizzying array of dials, ranging from 1 to 10, with the Aspie's dials capable of going up to 11 or as low as Nought (either extreme). Which dials might be set at 5 or set at 11 is a bit of a lottery due to the fact ASD gets refracted by one's individual personality and vice versa. So it's rather like having a cold: some people sneeze loudly where others produce a tiny little 'hic', despite it's the one same cold virus. (Making sense?) You might just have the right combination of a FEW dials turned to 11 as can produce bipolar tendencies (but plus other uncommon strengths). Or you might not, might just have that typical Aspie inability to 'turn the emotional tap off' at will (self-comforting or self-control) once it gets turned on, for how stiff a tap it is. And there's one of the differences between an Aspie meltdown of whatever proportion and a bipolar episode: whether the causal, trigger stimulus came from something occurring in the environment or from within ones own head (brain chemistry suddenly out of whack with a routine 'changing of the hormonal/chemical guards'). Aspies lack filters and backburners. So in a nutshell regarding emotionality, it's this: ASD: something's upset me (I upset easily) and it's because the emperor, as per usual, isn't wearing any clothes - or - I feel excited/inspired, hear me go on and on about it for hours; BP: I feel upset (I at times upset easily), what can I find to pin it on that explains it? - or - I feel like Superman, see me take huge bounds and risks.
Eleven or nought: this applies to, for example, sociability. They used to think being a socially inept recluse, like Einstein (sociability 1), were stock standard for those with AS, as if AS were a personality in itself, but - look at Marilyn Monroe and tell me she wasn't OVER-sociable (sociability 11)...and the two of them become firm friends (ask yourself how). (They've managed to retrospectively diagnosed a number of famous individuals from diaries and other literature, you see). So it's unique personality traits and the condition interacting which makes diagnosis tricky. PS: Personal interests: Aspies don't do 'interests'; they do obsessions (hence if moreover perfectly functional and socially acceptable/tolerable, excel in their fields LIKE Einstein, Marilyn, and Orsen Welles and Bill Gates...obviously, given that practise makes perfect but nothing is ever perfect enough for an Aspie).
If you're low on the scale or were born quite high but remained undiagnosed and bust a gut to present as normal (for social survival purposes), you're known as Higher Functioning (by whatever degree...these things always hinge on degree).
Do you or anyone in your family tree have any Red tint to your head or body hair - any at all - because they now believe it hailed from a time when Cro-magnon males (today's Neurotypicals) mated with Neanderthal females (lack of their own females at the time, no doubt), and only Neanderthals had Red in their hair (and contrary to popular myth were actually superior to the Cro-magnons...created tools first, etc.).
I could go on all day, but suffice it to say, that hopefully explains why you don't fit all the symptoms, only some of them...and even then, possibly only a touch. And although Aspies *crave* solitude, particularly after spending too long in company, so do BPs whenever they're down. The exception is your personality disordereds who cannot-CANNOT bear solitude (because it's in those quiet moments without distractions that truth starts whispering in their ear).
But we can't ALL be Neurotypical or naturally balanced right down the middle because then the great machine wouldn't have the wide variety of cogs it needs in order to keep turning, so it's never a problem, only a case of exploring yourself and the world until you find WHERE in the machine you should be situated and, from there, can start to operate so impressively that you positively shine.
"I definitely was planning on changing my hours. There's several daytime positions available at my work, I'm definitely going to at least be looking into those."
And then you need to start wooing, wooing, wooing in record time so that the pan of milk on your hob that is your particular female mate can start to heat up to a simmer and beyond, where she goes *click* - I haven't a clue why (ugh), but I WANNA BABY!!! Or the click might take a while, resulting in this typical scenario: I want a baby...(two weeks later)...did I say I wanted a baby? - UGH, no I don't, what was I thinking!... (and repeat, condense, settle).
Don't panic too much about her age, either, because recently they found a clam that lives for 200 years, which is BECAUSE they produce babies so infrequently and thereby 'delay meeting their potential'. Their genes, sensing this and having an offspring quotient, basically WAIT, and meanwhile keep them in a youthful state (just add preservative, ha-ha). And they've accordingly discovered that people who have none or only one child tend to stay youthful for longer.
SHE might be the (mild) Aspie - just 'stuck' and needing that shock out of it - and you the Aspie-commpatible, which would make her a late developer (mind previously too busy on trying to find ways to fit into the 'wrong' place in the great machine = adulthood and its urges delayed). Although Aspies tend to find lying highly distasteful and uncomfortable unless it's a case (possibly only to them) of Do Or Die.
With enough wooing, also, she'll start to open up in terms of mental intimacy as well, i.e. start being honest and confiding. In the meantime, whilst wooing, you have to make the first move and be very open and honest, no matter how vulnerable it leaves you (treat it as a scientific experiment). She should, by the laws of human dynamics, pay it back in kind. If not, she's got issues. And I say that because it's highly typical for one with a whiff of AS to attract one with whatever degree of personality disorder (and they can't abide truth because it doesn't fit in with everything they were taught/how they were soft-programmed and could cause their entire house of cards built ever since to tumble down (nervous breakdown followed by starting over)). In the beginning and whenever things are good between you, your matching positive traits create amazing harmony, but once negativity comes in it's Hell for both of you because, there's the Aspie, doggedly pursuing truth, the whole truth and nothing BUT the truth and there's the PD doggedly trying to AVOID truth, never mind its whole or nothing but. (You can't be PD, you're too obviously a truth-seeker.)
But here's the spanner in the works: acutely or chronically stressed/traumatised people (and carrying major baggage for years is a stressor) - DefCon 3 and upwards - do a damn good impression (until they get to calm down) of a personality disordered. (Say it with me: "sigh", and have new-found respect for psychiatrists.)
Do you know how to woo (you'd be surprised how many men don't) or did she woo you, originally, or 'puppeteer' you in terms of wooing her?
Now a little-known but laughably simple recipe for keeping calm during talks with someone for whom you have empathy or compassion: "Pow!" is really just "Ow!" with P (for pretense/false front) in front of it. If she says something that hurts, offends, confuses or threatens (or refuses to cooperate with straight answers) it's because SHE'S hurt or offended, etc. and is trying to pass on or foist back that unwanted pass-the-parcel (or is trying to signal for help without having to say so with her mouth) - berbom, meaning, you're feeling HER hurt/upset, not your own. If YOU were the one who got upset every time you tried to discuss anything contentious, you would soon learn to abstain/refrain, same as you would if every time you touched a certain door you got a nasty electric shock. That you don't, that you keep trying, proves it's not you and that you're hoping that THIS TIME the thing outside of yourself and your control will behave differently.
10p, please, and either RSvP as you've been doing or keep me posted.
PS: Don't forget the capsules as they can have you thinking, feeling and reacting more like Mr Spock than Cap'n Kirk in as little as 2 weeks. 1000mg per day, try Healthspan. They also oil your joints, hair, skin, nails, etc. ...and, best of all, strengthen brain synapses, making for faster on-the-spot thinking to boot. They work beautifully on BPs as well. (Best make that 10-and-a-half pence. LOL)
PPS: Although not exactly scientific, the AQ (Autistic Quotient) Test seems to be 9 times out of 10 reliable. At your age, however, I would do it twice - once as if you were still a little kiddie and again for the adult you now are: http://www.wired.com/2001/12/aqtest/ (...11p)
I had heard that before as well as to the possible Neanderthal connection with autism, and as to the question about red hair, well, I know how babies' hair changes over time, and I'm not sure that it would be relevant in that case, but I apparently did have red hair when I was quite young, although it's not now. Not sure if that would count or not.
In regards to the other speculation about sort of "learnt" Asperger's because of a parent? That's a possibility as well. My dad and I are very much alike in personality. But I suppose in the long run whether I'm legitimately Asperger's or just "learnt" Asperger's is really irrelevant, as the final result is still the same.
As to the fish oil thing, I had been suggested those before anyway, as apparently they help with cholesterol and mine is a bit high, so two birds, one stone.
Finally, yes, it was her that approached me initially and in fact I do feel like all along, she's been really making most of the decisions, not out of malice or laziness, but I've always been extremely indecisive, which I suppose probably isn't very surprising.
"I apparently did have red hair when I was quite young"
Ah-HAH! There we go.
"as the final result is still the same."
No. It means you're pliable and can learn to be (return to) more Neurotypical because originally that's how you were moreover wired. Aspies are set in concrete (unless they have a genius iQ and other mental talents and/or enough NT in them). Methinks, what with the Red disappearing, that you're 'son (or grandson?) of Aspie' and that unconsciously that was you/your AS giving your dad a wink so as to encourage his interest in you (as babies are wont to do). But you're indisputably Higher Functioning so that slight strain is actually brilliant news for you in terms of that extra je ne sais quoi and hidden skills.
"so two birds, one stone"
Rah-Rah Omega 3s! I shall expect you to want to snog 'me' within 6 weeks max. I won't let you though. Knowing you want to is enough.
Then you'll be wanting lady-wooing lessons, I presume. It's a Halfpence per day, can you afford that?
(Just trying to make you smile with a bit of comedic sluttery; you're probably a bit in shock or at least discombobulated after that test, aren't you?)
PS: See if you can get your wife to do it.
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