She doesn't want me to talk to him
I haven't been in here for some time as things are progressing fine relationshipwise. Damn good place to be if you have problems - sorted me out.
However, an acquaintance, not a pal let's call him Tone, we see him and chat and drink weekly has just been done for the same crime as me and is now on the SOR.
He has become very withdrawn, never was an extrovert like me, although trying to keep his life going on and quite frankly I feel sorry for him. As I am an inveterate talker and went through the same as him,I have approached him and suggested we meet up and have a talk. I was aiming to compare notes in terms of probation, police attitudes, neighbours and friends reaction and of course family. Purely to try and help, not to get back to our crime details. I managed to get my life back, so should he. His wife is very ill with Parkinsons, they are both in their 70s, like us.
As our relationship is now completely open, I don't hide anything on the computer, there is nothing to hide, but my wife has access to emails and she has seen one of the brief messages I sent Tone about meeting up.
She has come down hard on the idea mainly because his crime was considerably worse than mine and in her terms got off very lightly due to influential contacts in church, community and ex services references. Our daughter B has the same feelings, in fact his daughter R contacted B about how she handled my case once it was out in the open.
Tone had a much more detailed press account because of his connections, including a photo and incredibly the wrong photo of someone else - how disgraceful is that of the local press?
Should I meet him and chat?
(Considerably worse. That's an understatement!)
Some people at whatever point try to opt out of life and its pressures and responsibilities. They one day find themselves having fallen into a cold, wet, muddy hole, which they can't alone get out of.
How to tell Which:
[a] "I want out" WELCOMES the hand and arm of a good samaritan. They reach for it, grab it and cooperate with the rescue operation (process).
[b] "I want to stay here for longer or forever, without anyone suspecting I do" does whatever they can, overtly or subtly/covertly, to subvert or completely scupper that process.
But whichever assumes yours is the only arm proffered.
I thought we agreed you'd let his product of his own life endeavours prior to that point show itself in the form of his nearest and dearest leaping onto their rightful privilege of helping him out?
Well, anyway. What with his having 'influential contacts' in the first place, i.e. thinking himself a big I Am, he might well see it as too humiliating to accept help from anyone he deems an 'underling' (think about it). If he indeed has that much false pride despite no other arm has been proffered (ergo stupidity to-boot) then, the consequence of his declining your offer (staying in the hole) befits his original mistake(s) AS LED to this societal gross misdemeanour, doesn't it?
See how it's all connected?
Also - ref 'understatement!' - if he's been bad and someone good/better offers help, isn't that him additionally admitting that good saves the day where bad creates the need to save the day to begin with? And with THAT as his base processing point, imagine what ELSE unflattering-to-him realisations and enlightenments would automatically, rapidly ensue. Maybe he's not ready for all of that.
Conclusion: either has one or more helpful arms OR doesn't want yours OR wants to stay in that hole either for-good or for longer OR wants for whatever reason to be his own hero and climb out under his own steam...or any cocktail of such.
Let us 'pray':
God [/Fate/Nature] grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Don't harm your relationship with a good woman for the sake of insisting on trying to help someone that's clearly indicated he for whatever reasons neither wants nor needs it. Look for other holes and victims. It's not like there's a shortage of them, after all, eh!
PS: Alright, stranger!
Thanks and hello again.
Considerably worse. That's an understatement! What makes you say that? The level of his crime was much higher than mine. C and B and I are angry that he got off lightly.
As usual, and I am no further educated since we last spoke, so I honestly don't understand what you are saying.
He doesn't think he is a big I am.
I haven't said "clearly indicated he for whatever reasons neither wants nor needs it"
He is not trying to avoid me or give himself airs
"declining your offer" he hasn't.
1. Yes, Moody, I know his crime was much higher than yours. As in, 'actually committed it', higher. That's precisely why I said "considerably worse" was an understatement. ("Interpretor?" LOL)
2. But you're right that I then went and got it completely wrong about his wanting to meet up. (Naughty Chair pour moi, 10 mins.) Haven't a clue how it happened...must be seeing things today! ("Matron?")
3. But you have already known for months that C didn't like the then idea of it, and agreed with me that it was better to let his family have that privilege, rather than upset C, didn't you - remember? (And now we have B feeling the same as C, which means upsetting her as well.) So why would you go against the wishes and sensitivities of your two biggest fans come lifelines when clearly the guy *does* have a support network of family *and*, which is more, "influential contacts"?
Where are they, then? Why you? Why are you determined enough to risk falling out with C and B? What makes you believe he's repentant, even, rather than, say, just sorry he got caught?
(Genuine, investigative questions, btw, not rhetorical.)
Yes apology accepted and would love to see you perched on a very small chair.
I think I will leave it at that, Tone's crime only became publicly known about 2 months ago
His family support was one of the things I wanted to discuss with him. He did say in a small chat on Monday that he actually enjoys his probation sessions as I did apart from them being extremely painful at times and that was anoher subject. Equally how has his general support been, contacts, church etc.
I will leave it.
I do hope you and himself have had a super summer, no doubt very tanned with bright bikini lines. Did I see your pics in the Sun the other day when I picked a used one? up at the barbers.
Wait - I've remembered where I got it from (although it was just conjecture, as in, food for thought): because you stated that you had approached him and yet, reading between the lines (in terms of issuing the invitation, then waiting a few days for a response, THEN coming on here, clearly having not yet had one), he's not exactly doing any eager 'grabbing' of your proffered arm, is he. But if you say the incident was only 2 short months ago then, I agree with you - he's in all probability very much in shock, still.
If his daughter's already approached your daughter, however, then it seems pretty likely that his other family members and friends are likewise getting busy.
I think leaving it is a sensible decision. Own oxygen mask first. After all, it wasn't Tone who was there for you, was it. That was your wife and daughter, etc. So it's about knowing which side your bread is buttered on, really, plus their feeling they've worked hard to deserve to have their opinions count.
So, yep, good decision! But obviously it's your life so if you decide to change it then that's your prerogative entirely.
PS: That's an highly vivid imagination you've got there, LOL However, just to keep things fair and balanced, do you think next time you picture me it could be in a very large villa in Spain, preferably with sea views, riding around acres of palm-tree-ed grounds on a dirt-bike, one-handed (other hand holding an ice cold bottle of something), wearing.... probably NOTHING, knowing the Spanish climate! (Cheers!
Ok thanks. I wasn't going to chat with him in a public space, just in case someone who knew, spotted us and thought there's two old Paedos comparing notes.
My imagination has always run wild, I think most people have an impression of the other person. At least mine of you is an extremely warm, pleasant, fun and sun loving, glass full woman.
Just to add, I have resigned this week from a smaller group of my main hobby/interest, due to an increasing awareness of distancing and being ignored by a few of the group who are are mainly mature/elderly women. I made the decision myself, there is no committee and I wasn't requested to leave as last time. The same vindictive woman is a member but we kept very distant and had no reason to come together, but she has obviously gossiped and now I can sense 3 others are treating me like a pariah and were'nt before.
One of the chaps, the treasure of the other group is also aware from before and very still friendly, sent me a note expressing his disappointment and mentioned that oddly he has two contacts with the same crime as me. One was an ex family member being a divorced brother in law who was so bad he did time and the other amazingly the very chap I have been rabbiting on about talking to as above. Small world again.
This a copy of the email I circulated to this group, a large proportion of elderly women.
It is with sadness, regret, disappointment and some relief to tell you I won't be with the group from now on. Relief â in that I don't have to suffer the attitudes of three members of the group, two females and one male who seem to think I am doing them some harm by just being there. I don't think it's because I smell but certainly feels like that.
Gossip will no doubt increase following this public email. I shall not name names, they know who they are but they are determined to prevent me from getting on with my life. Yes, I did something wrong four years ago and I will forever pay the penalties for my stupidity.
I will continue with my hobby in my own company which is one of my great regrets, in that I have always enjoyed being an active club/group/association member in many roles. However the atmophere I feel particularly within this group by those three narrow minded people makes me realise my presence is not welcome, I can't hurt them.
The remainder treat me very well.
I suppose the reaction from those would be ignore them and be involved, but I too have feelings and this is the only way I can express them rather than bottle them up. That's me.
Over the years these feelings should have been blunted by a very active life but no, they're still present. Luckily I mix regularly with several large groups of people, totally unrelated to this group interests, aged from kids to my age. Several of these are aware of my recent problem, yet most of those have chosen to ignore them and continue to welcome me in their midst on a weekly basis.
Sorry for the delay, not ignoring you (the usual blurb), bear with...
That gossiping ringleader clearly has too much time on her hands and/or no other way of gaining herself any attention. (Maybe her telly's broken and she can't get her daily fix of EastEnders?) Nasty people are miserable people and vice-versa, remember? So I agree - just get out of her crosshairs; she'll soon find someone else to gossip over, whereas you'll no doubt find something new 'walking into your life' fairly soon...something, someone, or some opportunity that, had you stuck with that club, might have otherwise got dismissed or not noticed. Creating a job vacancy, in other words.
I love how these so-called supporters' attitudes are to just ignore them and it. Oh, so *you* have to constantly clean up the poo *they* keep dropping around and about your feet, do you? What are ya - the club Noo-Noo? Er, excuse-me, "supporters", but this is a gathering that works on membership, over which someone MUST be in-charge, yes? So how come that head honcho isn't formally issuing a warning this woman (and her little coven) to cease constantly making another of its longest-term members (plus those that sympathise with you) distinctly uncomfortable on pain of losing her/their own memberships? Here's why: "Buuuuck, buck-buck-buuuuuuuck...!".
You're better off out, mate - good decision. Feather-wise, you are no chicken. Chickens PECK (as you see) and lay eggs (ditto) and make non-stop, annoying noises (yup). And their wings are pretty useless. Nope, no taking-off or soaring for them.
It's not necessarily about being seen in public with him. It's more about disassociating yourself as opposed to lumping yourself in with his category, IN YOUR HEAD... something you can do without causing him or his nearest and dearest any bad feeling whatsoever. So you don't talk about him to others behind his back and are perfectly kind and friendly if ever he and his bump into or approach *you*, yet at the same time don't actively seek him out *as if you think you need HIM* and thereby create the appearance (to anyone, and especially to yourself) of it being *you* who feels the urge to seek 'safety in numbers'. He's not your number. He does not represent strength or safety.
'Birds of a feather flock/stick together'. And those birds, certainly at your age, are freest and happiest for being automatically on each other's wavelength...fewer words needed...fewer efforts to communicate effectively and energy-efficiently and be empathised with. After all, that IS why we make ourselves experience so much diversity in our younger years to begin with... making then breaking or keeping friendships as a sifting-through process, precisely in order TO, come old age, have already sought out, identified and 'gathered up' members of our own feather from within today's overcrowded and widespread general melees. And that's because - be honest - the Autumn into Winter years get tougher and tougher ENOUGH without all the added stress that results from not having solid, for-life friendships with people who automatically 'get' us and vice versa. Having that kind of auto understanding cuts out a lot of the by-then avoidable, wearying crap of miscommunication, misunderstanding, misinterpretations, crossed-purposes, fallings-out and makings-up (all the time- and energy-consuming interpersonal dealings nonsense that can drag you down and sap your vitality), leaving our mentalities almost wholly free to concentrate on and deal with each and every new, age- and stage-related hardship as they emerge and take up permanent residency.
So that, under your own radar-wise, will be the underlying, instinctual reason why you've made the decision to leave that club; is an excellent sign. You're not JUST an artist so need more than just artistry and art appreciation in-common. No WAY would those people be the ones rallying around you if you one day became incapacitated (and vice-versa) and C needed back-up. Call it a person spring-cleaning exercise. Or call it, 'WIV regre',...yor FARD!' (- name the reality TV series!). If the vibe you'll from now on be emanating is purer thus stronger and more distinctive, it'll get 'smelt' and recognised by others who do deserve and would appreciate that mutual 'job position', as then are naturally, seamlessly drawn to you and vice versa.
In other words, finish identifying yourself and your strengths and weaknesses, and then BE that self, be who you genuinely are at intrinsic, core moral and strength of character level so that you'll have a strong and distinctive enough 'odour' (and general demeanour) as makes recognising and being recognised by other 'yourselves' more instantly possible (as saves a lot of time). Otherwise, if unsure about who you are and where you stand on everything, you'll be sending out a confusion of vibes... bit like boiling a pan of carrots next to a pan of sugar-water (for fruit salad syrup, obvs) simultaneously: "[sniff]...What's cooking in that kitchen, I can't quite tell, don't recognise the smell,...doesn't smell very tasty, either,...hmm, think I'll pass, thanks...".
(Here's hoping you understood a word of that, LOL.)
Cor! You're wordy but damn good. Thanks again and appreciate you are busy.
I intend to get to go with another group in a different but handy city and share my skills and their friendliness. It is possible that one member of the previous group is a member but she was on my side so I expect no problems. My interest will not wane even if I am creating it alone.
My next project is to try and hire a nearby hall and have a one day function next month maybe. Have prepared a flyer and will distribute and publish if I get the go-ahead from the hall. You and yours would of course be very welcome even incognito or incarnate! Prices won't be too high.
I am wordy, aren't I. You're certainly not the first person to ever say so in my lifetime. Haven't a clue what to do about that. I think it's a case of too many multi-level thoughts, not enough time, try to cram all concepts into single sentances, meaning, it's 'and' and 'but' and 'however' and 'thereby' and brackets and dashes and - hey, look at this! - case in point! - I'm starting what's looking very much to be the longest sentance ever issued in the world by anyone, ever (unless I run out of words to describe my over-wordiness) (not really likely, let's be honest) so..... what was the question again? ("brrringg-brringg...Guinness Book of World Records, please?").
Kiddie bedtime story-teller for hire. Â£100 per hour. Duration of service: 2 minutes minimum + maximum (equals Â£2) (enough for the Lottery).
Here, good kerching with the function! But you're waaaaaaaaaaaay too far away from where I live, even *if* I were non-sensible enough to mix biz with pleasure (nope).
OR AM I? ("Dan-dan-daaaannnn!"). LOL, you're going to be scrutising every single visitor through that door, thinking, 'Is that her? Or is he her? Or is she he?'.
Maybe I'm not even human? Maybe Richard's a programming genius and I'm his modern-day "HAL" in prototype form, being tested out on the general pubic-sorry public? Nah-HAH, didn't think of that one, did ya, Clever-Clogs?!
At the moment there will be very few in this locality to hire me as a Kiddie bed time story reader. In fact none, even my daughter and son on the basis that plod could turn up un-announced on the doorstep and there I would be while they're off having a ball.
When WE babysit at least I can go and tuck them in and kiss them night night as C is down stairs.
Scrutinise - moi? I will be far too busy counting the cash - if it comes off.
Funny thing is I have enquired about borrowing/hiring a scout hut. Now that's the last place I could enter at present, but I will be with adults. I am not even going to alert the local plod who supervise me, they haven't called for quite a while, I guess I am classed as low risk, I hope so.
That acquaintance I have been meaning to talk to told me last night in a very brief chat in front of C that he was suddenly and in a very abrupt very unpleasant way by unsigned letter that he was no longer welcome at his gym. He did get a wide press with a photo albeit not of him.
I was referring to me and the fact I'm so over-wordy I can put kids to sleep in 0-6 seconds, ya 'nana.
I'm sure you'll sell a few; you always do, don't you?
UNSIGNED letter? Not official, then, just someone who's got wind of his conviction, operating independently, having managed to get hold of a piece of headed paper (a member of staff or friend of, probably). Did you advise him to demand to speak to the manager or owner of that gym and show him/her the letter? Whether official or not - its unlawful discrimination and harassment, meaning, he'd have a case against them in a court of law. He needs to speak to his probation officer or, better yet, solicitor (s/he might well be able to just send them a warning letter to get him reinstated with an official apology). Basically, if you open your doors to the public then THE PUBLIC is what you're going to have to expect to get coming through them.
"I know that" exactly my retort to you as per our lovely GD 9 yrs old is fond of telling me these days.
Meeting tonight at the hall. Be funny if the plod turn up while I am there and C says I am down at the scout hut.
Will be interested in what the fee is for the hut and might do a deal- for instance no set fee but a cut on the takings.
I have forwarded your comment to my acquaintance about the unsigned letter.
"Be funny if the plod turn up while I am there and C says I am down at the scout hut."
ROFL - Stop it! Hilarity does not get you off the hook where being naughty is concerned, you. (But, yes, it would be funny. Very.)
It's a scout hut; I doubt very much the council or whomever owns it would be prepared to cut a deal based on sales percentage, just a flat nightly hire fee. Still - no harm in asking, I suppose?
(Tone owes me 10p.
They don't want anything for the very nice hut which is large, clean, toilets, good lights, kitchen and 3 kettles, loads of mugs. Maybe a donation in a collection tin they hinted, so I said I would give them a fee and maybe a percentage of my takings - they were not bovvered. Have got the codes to get in my own time.
Got a long list of prep work now as we will be away for the week leading up to it.
Tone did respond to say I got is wrong and it was a management letter.
Crikey, that was nice of them?! Well, here's hoping you have such a successful exhibition that they'll need TWO tins!
Yes - busy preparing now. Been away since last Friday enjoying ourselves. Got stuff to do and did a fresh painting today.
I could send Richard details if you want.
It'll end up on your web gallery at some point soon, won't it? I've still got the link you sent last time, in actual fact, so I'll trundle over there in a week or two and have a fresh ganders. What's it of? Or is it another abstract?
PS: I've just had a killer of a sinus infection for the last 10 days (or it could have been flu, given that I had the cold sweats up the spine and a temperature) so I've not been able to post at all and even just doing my thread beat proved a feat-and-a-half. Mr S has been a wonderful nursie, as per usual: cooking, cleaning, fetching and carrying, sympathetic cuddles galore and ringing from work to check I was okay ("ahhhh")...everything bar blowing my nose for me (ew!). Be careful because apparently it's going around like wildfire at the mo., you don't want to get it just before your showing.