Ever since i took a job abroad(last month) she has been hanging around her new friends a lot. We both don't like the distance but agreed that 2weeks work and 2 weeks off we can make it for some time. Problem started cus i got upset that she chose friends over me right before i came back home. Said that she already had plans with them. I might have over reacted but i thought alright, i'll go to my parents house and chill with my cousin for few days. Since then everything has went downfall. She has been out with friends all the time and basicly doesn't have time for me. She said that i have hurt her and i can't change the past with few days, when she cryed over me. I know i have made lot's of mistakes.
So i made a decision that i'll change myself to person who i was when we got together. Not to imrpess her but to be that good person again.
I know i can't ask her to run back to me cus i said i'll change. But im doing my best and all she says is that she needs time to load herself and then we'll see what happens. But for couple of days shes been totaly distant. Answering me only with few words and within few hours. Like i don't exist anymore. Yesterday when i went to our apartment, she said that feeling totaly sick and even coulnd't speak to anyone, i did everything for her and left cus she wanted to be alone. After i left she was nonstop fb active. After i thought alright i'll make a letter to her. There i discribed how much i like, love and want to be with her, our past and future. It came out 2400 letters. I sent that to her and all she answered was thanks, so nice of you and a "kiss smile". She used to be emotional and liked my "letters" but now thanks? What am i doing wrong? We barely talk now and all those 2 weeks she's angry, cold or crumpy. I'm not sure if im her priority anymore. So yeah, i'm so stressed, can't sleep, or eat. Only she does is push me away(she even agreed to that). Now tomorrow i have to go abroad again and i hate it. Asked if she wanted to meet me, she said we'll see.. but seems like not very intrested.
I'm doing everything to save this realationship but what i am doing wrong and do i even have a chance??
Sorry for my english.
Bet you're feeling a bit silly now, eh.
Listen, two humans squished together long-term in a room ARE GOING TO CLASH. When, not If. if you've managed to go all that time without your first humdinger then that's an achievement, but the pair of you were always going to reach the point where normal, natural clashes and disagreements would finally appear next on the schedule. Because you're NOT *ACTUALLY* him with t*ts/her with a w*lly, just more compatible and fruit-loopy than most (congrats!). Ber-bom.
Furthermore, course you've always had a jealousy (and insecurity) problem, the pair of you. How could anyone be that incredibly into someboxy else and NOT be so protective over and fearful about losing their brilliant thing? Nonchalance, being laid-back about things, just wouldn't gel, would it. Analogy: you've won the lottery - £14m - and have the notes packed into a suitcase which you're obviously going to want to keep hold of or keep close to you at all times. But there are obviously going to be copious occasions where you have to park the thing and wander away from it. How relaxed and secure are you feeling at those points? Answer: HA-HA.
No, she does trust you - in Situation Normal. But then when you clash - Situation Abnormal - it feels so abnormal, so 'end of the world' that either or both of you would rather justify how incredibly bad you feel by painting the other momentarily Black/Secretly Evil than have to (mis)conclude you must be being over-the-top or going bonkers. It's called a wobble and they come in varying degrees depending on the state of other, contributory factors and elements at the time. And you two not having had ENOUGH fights whereby you can get to know (thus trust) each other's Fight Personas will, while being gained, basically be capable of doing your heads in. Simple as that!
So it's - I trust you...wait, no I don't, eek (WHO IS THIS PERSON?!)! And then, following the debrief, you go changing this, that or this, as if how you habitually behave must be the reason. No, it isn't, those are just the tangibles, or pinpointables, that get blamed for what is just a natural, part and parcel event. Although, saying that, your instinct to go back into Honeymoon Wooer-Hunter Mode is SPOT-ON (well done!).
Saying THAT - there are obviously habits that can crank up what is already "too much" situational insecurity, such AS, fraternising with single women (thereby leaving yourself potentially open to advances - and FOR WHAT?). So, yes, those boat-rocking things are better and safest left out of it - on both sides - because some people's tolerance to sea-sickness might be lower than the next person's (especially after a big meal).
You can't expect someone after such a short space of time of knowing you to just automatically have the level of trust needed to counter such normal, natural (- contextually) senses of precariousness, as in, your heart so completely in someone else's hands that your very sanity (you think/feel) could likely follow suit in the event of a break-up/betrayal. Yes, there's a standard portion of trust that we beans freely and readily give, that level being however much greater when it's a relationship of the highest order. But the rest has to be EARNED. Which means, a lot more operating together under more and more outside life influences, interferences and disruptions. Because trust is nothing more mysterious than this: I've seen you operate under so many normal, everyday situations, circumstances and conditions that I now can mentally predict via extrapolation of what data I do already possess, what you would do or say in any imaginable situation. YOU'VE ONLY BEEN TOGETHER FOR LESS THAN TWO YEARS, what are you expecting - Rome built in a day?
This is heavy-duty romantic relationships for ya, WOOZY. If you want its amazing perks then you're going to have to do/suffer the work that earns them. Until that point, these falling-outs can feel highly - HIGHLY - traumatic. But, emphasis on FEEL. Your hearts are completely exposed thus extra sensitive...any even little prod, knock, or even brush, is going to hurt far more than you'd think were justifiable by whatever was behind the clash. Enter "I feel this terrible because you this/that/this (*not* because I'm mad)."
Yeah, you are both mad. Temporarily/at this stage. 'When love is not madness it is not love' (- Pedro de la Barca) (Espanol...MUY empassionata, si? Welcome to the world of a man who knew what truly passionate love 'did' and could at times feel like. ).
You harmed her but never actually chopped her head off and stuffed her body in a suitcase under the bed, right? So you're human (and, what's worse, a man - LOL, I'm talking her perception) but not an actual snake-in-the-grass, out to get her or uncaring, careless git. Every time you hurt but don't kill and prove afterwards you clearly didn't mean to hurt, trust level goes up.
There you go. Carry on having fights where only your pride gets 'suitcased' (temporarily).
Now to these friends:
She didn't CHOOSE these friends exactly. She's just behaving according to programme. It's that the distance has made it difficult for you to keep that pan of milk (her) still bubbling as wildly as before... a percentage of detachment has taken place. Were you constantly around, you'd naturally, automatically, be re-heating her daily, even just via your physical presence - right? ("Right!") So she's become cooled down a tad - in her heart if not her head - and you simply need to compensate for that now missing physical access/proximity element, i.e. find whatever other ways you can think of to woo her back up to a fast simmer again.
She's probably wondering, how come you could bear to take that job to begin with if you love her and want to be with her so much (and practical reasons be damned)? I imagine that's what started everything, meaning, even though rationally in her head she seemed in complete agreement with the move, her heart had a different take on it altogether. Not something she can control. But *you* can: Interfloras, nightly phonecalls, daily texts, phone sex, genuine compliments, sharing how you feel as you're feeling it (I miss you so much I could chop off my arm if it would get you sat here beside me right now, etc., etc.). Welcome to Long-Distance (in fact, I'm probably going to alter your category heading) and its need for creative thinking for taking up the slack and maintaining the hob heat in your absence. As she's not actually a pan of milk on the hob, we're not talking 10-15 mins. In reality application - a good 2-4 weeks of sincere re-wooing and re-schmoozing. And if I were you, I'd find a plateau and stick to it so that cooling down won't ever again be a problem. It's a full-time job, Jim, just not as we know it. Either do it and stay employed on the same but ever incrementing salary or resign/be fired, simple as that...which is WHY the saying, 'Relationships are hard, hard work'.
You're in the big league now. But you just wait until you get your first, big bonus!!! It'll remind you all over again just how worthwhile that work is.
Once you've finished getting her back to the temperature she was at before is when you'll start to get your gushing reciprocated again. But she did respond so I very much doubt it's too late. In short, all you're "doing wrong" is expecting Rome to be rebuilt in a day. Well, you did NOT, on meeting her, say, 'Hi, sexy!' only to see her immediately fall in your arms, calling you Sexy back, did you now ("nope!")...there you go.
All she does is answer. So yeah i do the heavy lifting all the time. Making up conversations but it's really hard if you get back only 1-2 words.
But yeah, i think/hope im overreacting with that dude, yeah maybe he is a friend but, sometimes seems differently, maybe cus of the situation.
Like you said, hard work!
im a girl and i can tell you when a girl gives you one word or two word answers- the same as a guy does- its when they are not interested it in them.
when a girl is hurt by him and loves him- she writes book. and same with a guys (as you no doubt sent a letter)
its only when crushing on that its a few sentences and banter
from what you say, this is a relationship of convenience for her- accomodation- she is most likely cheating on you, but maybe cant move out financially or is testing out the other guy, but manbe he doesnt have must to offer like you do..
i've had guy friends. my best friend was guy, and we hung out, but it always felt a bit awkward to spend so much time with a guy friend when you have a boy friend, that you naturally stop spending so much time- and truth be told i was right in doing so as later only he did tell me he was confused a bit and had feeling for me. I've been the attactive girl that the boys wanted to date buy only kept a handful off close friends cos the buys issues meant i lost good friends i thought only wanted to be friends but they wanted more.... see even if her male friend is just a really good friend. its this alpha male animal kingdom. if the girl is attractive the guy will not want to talk to you much or be your best mate nor will she naturally introduce you and be so affectionate with you in front of him if she is conflicted in her feelings for him,cos she will sense a tension. (hand up we gals do) but if the guy had no interest in her, he will no be overbearing and try to invite you to their gathering to get to know you and make you part of the team.
i would say find out if she had the financial mean to be by herself or move out so u can rule out being with you now just as convenience
and 2, when u are next back see if you can get another phone and have it in the living room hidden with the sleep recorder app.... as soon as it hears noise it starts recording and stops when the sound is gone. so say u are out of the house with your cousin, and she is with this guy, or on the phone, talking to him, once you come home, dicreetly take this other phone that has been recording conversation in your house, and go listen to it. if she was cheating on you wyou would hear. if its just them being friendly or talking that shows he's just a friend and nothing more, then try and make it work.
its not easy to trust someone he hasn't treated you well, and there is always the fear that peple will go back to their old ways after saying they have changed. and if this guy is there for her more than you were, then he can easily show her he's better than you (sorry, but truth her, you have given him all that he needs before he was in the picture just by the way you treated her) so all you can do now is find out it its to late and if its just out of not being able to afford to mobve out that she is there or if she is conflicted with her feelings about you and falling for the othe guy. in which case, you will need to do some serious sweeping her off to make her stay.
if you can be with her soon, do the phone thing, and if its that the guy is trying to sweep in and she hadnt cheated on you, then sweep her offf her feet and be the man you say you want to be, and say you want to meet her friens and tell them how much you want to be with her and ask if you can take her away for a weekend away as you are only here for a shot time. if they are fine with it, then its really up to her to say yes or she will find some excse to not go cos she doesnt want the other guy to get jeolous. in which case if she does do that, i would say u ask him come around, that you want to get to know him and tell him you are taking her away on a beak everyone else if fine with it, but you want to know if she is hesitant becas he wont be happy with it. if he says he wont be- which he will if he is into her, then she will know how he feels about her as well as if she wants to be with him or you or if she has been cheating with him on you, then you can politely say are you with me because you cant move out, in which case, you can ask her to move out with his help, and be civil about it and say you need to part ways and its not helpful to u,her and him.
Anyway she's really confusing. Yesterday somthing happened to internet and tv, so she called and told everything about it and what's gonna happen next. I didn't expect her to call. Well that's a good thing i guess. But as long as i know her and her family, they are totaly against cheating and hate it, hopefuly that applies on her also. Anyway cus she's ill, she can't go out and that makes her crumpy. But 1 thing is correct, right now she's unemployed.
So yesterday evening as much as i got her to talk ended well ? Umm told her i love her etc. she responded with heart smile. At the morning she told me that she had a dream about me cheating on her. Told nothing that will ever happen. Anyway I don't understand, if she wants to be with me, then why respond only with few words. Since her birthday is soon, we are going to her parents house and to spa(desided before fight). For a moment we had a small argue and she told ah great, let's not go and so on. Anyway argue got cleared. And she still wants to go. But is it only to show parents, were ok or what? Hm.
Aaa, and before i left to work abroad she told me she's not talking to that guy as much as i think.
Anyway yeah, communication is the problem or am i missing something? From one point of view, she wants me but other, im like noone.
1. Was still replying, rather than not.
2. Thinks it's still your business to know what's what with the Sky package (CASE CLOSED!) (so, no, the invitation to the parents is *not* just an act).
3. (Case closed but for your benefit I'll continue Uses that 'Sky problem- no, wait, not a problem- no, wait, problem' (LOL) as her highly tenuous little excuse to CONTACT YOU.
4. Basically reveals (still has the faith and confidence in you to reveal) she'd been thinking YOU were cheating!
5. Chooses to reassure you over your own fear on that score.
6. Confirms you're still her boyfriend thus still her escort to her parents house and the spa.
7. Didn't let the small argument get out of hand/didn't have arguing in her, plus cooperated with you to clear it up there and then.
8. Reassured again (you're still coming to the folks' house).
9. And AGAIN over the innocence of her involvement or lack of involvement with that guy.
That's not an app, it's a hand-grenade. All it takes is her spotting it or somehow finding out about it aaaand - you're straight into Humdinger Number 2 (which in the current climate could prove fatal).
Think of all the chick romance flicks you've ever watched, where the woman's falling hard for the guy. Did behaviour that said 'I do not trust you nor believe that you're of good character' feature?
It's PEPE Le Pew, not Poo-Poo Le Poo. At no point does Pepe frisk his 'lady friend'.
Anyway, I can tell from her style and rate of combo of 'coming down' plus starting to thaw (from the inside-out) that the problem still remaining, here, is.... You haven't actually apologised yet (for your part or the fact you didn't play man-in-charge, not letting it get out of control-wise, or just because you're regretful you both fought). Or you haven't made enough of a meal of it. Or you've done that typical, 'I am sorry, BUT' drivel. So you're not 'no-one', you're just 'pig of the month' and all your past, cute 'n darling pigs are having to come forward and testify for you on your behalf (lol)...and (sorry, can't resist) save your bacon.
Tell me I'm wrong, go on.
Just needed a push on my confidence/mood and woila. We're talking again, not much but that's a start.
She agreed to take it slow and some responces from her are already positive
So yeah i "pig of the month" thing is kinda right lol.
Anyway, hope for the best and case closed indeed!
Thanks for your advices and best regards to you!
You're most welcome and call in again some time (although we hope you won't have to...if you know what I mean?).
Anyway latest news was that, week ago we officialy broke up and she said that doesn't want to see my face ever again. So i started to move forward BUT couldn't return her clothes and other staff cus she was ill at the moment and i had to come abroad, so agreed to change after i'm back.
I started to ignore her, deleted from instagram and all our pictures etc and told that im gonna move to a city(she got angry about it, cus we moved away from city, where she liked to live to an island).
So here what happened. First there was a silence. And few days ago she contacted me. Asked when did i take down our pictures and have you deleted them all from phone/laptop etc. Next day: a dream she "had?" that i slept with a girl who commented my pic, right before i went abroad. Was bit confused, cus i thought we are separated and that shouldn't matter anyway. So yeah during past days she started more and more talking to me. Wanted me to help her to pick a laptop she wanted to buy, anyway small talk. Day after - She said that still has feelings for me, misses a lot, but suffers in big pain, cries every day and don't know what to do. Oh well, told that we'll see what time brings cus yeah, i still love her even after a break up. Anyway it gets more confusing for me. For example today she started to send pictures of herself, links about men's jeans that i "might" want, songs, worried about my health/sleeping and asked when i get back from abroad. So told her next week or so and she offered that if it's fine with me, we should drive around and chill. The question is, even if she shows intrest in me and MAYBE wants to be together again, should i give a change to a person who already ended relationship. I mean there are chances to do it again. And my trust is gone. Or what are her motives?! Her mind is like a freaking endless maze of mystery
You went abroad. You came back.
She wanted her friends but wanted you to still want her.
You broke up, she thought you'd cry about it, you didn't, now she wants you back.
This is how teenagers behave.
Ask her directly, does she want a relationship. If yes, tell her you want full-time, not just when she feels like it. If not, tell her you can be friends but she can't keep pretending she has a hold over you.
If I were you, I'd forget her as a girlfriends, maybe stay friends if she promised to stop going on about cheating and sending pic of herself, and concentrate on my career.
Thx for your responses!
What, that you've conveniently left out of that chain of events, occurred between after you got back together on Jan 10th and your return to here on Feb 6th to report of having "broken up for-good"?
But she clearly *doesn't* want the relationship to actually end because, look - the minute you act like a newly ex, she panics and doesn't like it (curiouser and curiouser, said Alice).
The only antidote to this fear of hers is to communicate properly and ply her with, not just attention but understanding and generosity, without expecting much of anything in return for a while (she, after all, is the one with the greater trust deficit or needfulness, AS her behaviour demonstrates; and you're obviously expecting her to start 'simmering' that bit too impatiently).
Back off but woo her from afar. This other guy is just a symptom, one that cannot possibly compete with you because of your 2-year attachment head-start on him. She's wanting the recouping of said easier distance yet going so far that she frightens herself even more so has to do things like 'pull in the other man' (he's being leant on and used, trust me on that...probably in the same boat as her) to get your attention back to a level that's more comfortable for her during this climate when she needs to pause, reflect, take stock, take a deep breath and get back into the saucepan. You've scared her silly, IOW, so now she's hiding under the sofa with a moral supporter as well as loss-prevention aid (him) and twiddling the 'attention dial' (think volume knob) for all she's worth, yet finding it difficult to establish a setting that pleases and reassures you both (hence why she daren't match your ardour and commitment level in her response to your letters despite she answers every time).
If this were happening to you at the 3 or 9 month mark, I'd be telling you, it shouldn't be THIS hard - "next!...". But two years in makes it feel nigh-on impossible to make a permanent break and, when you have more chemical pull and attachment than trust, this is what happens, is perfectly common and to be expected. So make it a safe, comfy mini one, instead, yet where you still *consistently* send the love letters, flowers, etc.
If that doesn't work (because I don't think you've done it properly enough), THEN you suggest a break-up. But even then, it mightn't necessarily end in permanent tears because - look - you keep *trying* to end it but (actions - deletions and plans to move to the city) she gets distressed/angry and won't let you. So this OM has lost already and, unless he's deliberately just trying to help her make you jealous to keep you in the game (agitating your male territorialism and possessiveness), hence, sits VISIBLY in the car. If she were trying to cheat on you and slide seamlessly from your relationship to a new one with him, she'd meanwhile keep him completely hidden (think about it). I also suspect he's her 'revenge' (or evening of the playing field) for the fact you 'let' that girl on FB make a veiled advance...or the fact you HAVE such a person as a Friend to begin with (er - did we forget the rule I explained?).
I suspect maybe there's too much chemistry and not enough trust, for you and she to be able to handle it at your ages. But that's the point of doing the above experiment with consistency (BE CONSISTENT, with only a soupcon of allowing her little frights, and you'll eventually become trustworthy again).
Do you comprehend everything I've just explained, and does it fit with what you know and sense but can't properly articulate? In summary, you/the relationship has (via whatever event/catalyst) frightened her majorly, she doesn't feel SAFE any more (hence you do the consistency), so is pushing you away, whereupon you move away *too* much and she has to pull you back again, whereupon you come back again *too* much....push you-pull you-push you, etc...
LET HER DICTATE THE PACE, LET HER HAVE BACK SOME CONTROL, BE *CONSISTENT* (ignoring her, for the time being, back-and-forth wobbling)...until she's ready to hand the steering wheel back to you.
That oughta do it, at least get her back onto track where she's capable of feeling and thinking positively towards you/the relationship again and understanding that you're just unavoidably kack-handed where something this big and heavy's concerned, haven't *meant* to hurt or frighten her and feel huge regret, accordingly, but can she give you a break until you get a better handle on everything, please. I don't know much, BUT I KNOW I LOVE YOU...AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS, the shuffling around on the over-small Love Seat to find a spot and position where we both feel equally comfy and brave.
Ain't rocket science....unless this is your first foray into 'rocket science'.
I'll have some time over the weekend to help you speed this all up, if you want and need.
I have thought about it- moving in to fast and yeah that's true. And you might be right about that guy, but ofc i have some doubts. That's my insecurity indeed. Well the "good" news was that when i arrived to airport, after that she asked a lot where am i and what am i doing. Well the point was, she wanted to suprise me :o everything would've been nice except she she saw me with one of my friend (female) whom i ran in together at mall. Saw me laughing etc, so she didn't make a contact with me there, cus thought i have moved on and got a new girl. So yeah, she was devastated and had a panic reaction and went immediately back to island. ( well of that guy was driving her again) can't tell if she's just using him. Anyway, the whole night i had to explain that nothing is between me and that girl, just a bad coincidence. Eventually she said that she's sad that it went like that trying to believe me and really misses me/us. (Topic for everyday, wishes to get everything better, us to move back to city, drive around country but also doubts, what if we get back together and same problems come back like half year from now etc.) She's in a lot of pain. Well like i told her, let's take time and see where it all goes. Each day at the time. I have to work on my confidence a lot especially with that dude. Anyway now she wanted to meet me and driving to island, to just talk etc. She's very confused about my feelings to her, maybe cus i have ignored her kinda much but not like "I don't care". And seeing me with that girl, she told that helped her to see about her own feelings, cares and nothing is lost, only huge pain in heart. Anyway like you said, im not gonna "give up" on those lovely things, just doing it much more less. And giving a little control to her. Seems like females start to "think" when you don't put yourself out as much as she used to.
Distances are one of the biggest reasons that hamper a relationship, especially when you have no strings attached or in other words, commitment of any kind. When you are traveling for work and you'll have an argument, it will certainly manifest into a far far bigger thing than you can imagine. So very IMPORTANTLY you need to first stop cursing yourself for reacting to a situation. You are a human and you feel bad about things. You have every right to voice that out too. Just because you are in a relationship with someone doesn't mean that you need to be silent about it. Relationships are meant to make each other strong, not weak. Am sure there are things that you may have done or said wrong but that doesn't mean that you are a bad person in any way.
There is also a point of things that are in your control. You can't possibly control everything that she is doing or make her happy in every possible way. Especially when you have to travel for 2 weeks per month for work. And you are right, work should always be your first priority in life. There has to always be a purpose and meaning to life, everything else comes secondary. It is very important that you find a person who understands and values what you are doing for them. It is also very important that you both be physically present for each other. Phone calls, text messages, skype calls are the biggest reasons of misunderstandings. So don't worry if you are not able to convince her what you really are. Because the fact is, none of those mediums will be able to express what you really feel or how important it is when you say you love her.
If at some point she has said that she doesn't want to continue this, you should let her have that freedom of choosing so. You need to be in a relationship with someone where all your efforts are worth while. It is not possible for you to make her decisions for herself. I know this solution doesn't seem to be what you would ideally want but i can assure you that it a better option that just being in this state of mind games for years together. I have been in a long distance relationship and i very much know how difficult it is to make someone feel special, and am talking about being with someone for over 3 years now. The person who is next to her and the person who is physically present will always win. Ofcourse there are also things like when the person has mentally chosen to be the devil that they are, you can't do much about that. You are not here to convince people to be with you. You ofcourse would work hard to improve on your short comings, but don't take that as your weakness.
Talking about control - ofc i can't control everything. I can only suggest what or if to do. But for example after i got back from abroad and that suprice thing came along which didn't go as planed to her, made her open eyes more(at least i think so). She has more intrest in me, during a day asks many times what im up to etc (before nothing like that). Ofc communication is kinda short but i guess better then nothing. (like she told, her phone is usually on a floor and only watching it when moving somewhere) - maybe a way of dealing pain?
When i came to island we met and talked over 4h: problems, what have happened etc. I think the evening went well considering the presure on both of us. On the next morning i got a text from her asking if i even liked or haved some fun with her. Since her so called friends wanted to visit her she made a suggestion to spend next whole day together. So yeah yesterday we drove out of the island, visited city and came back at night. During that 12h there was good times, she brought up memories and also some wierd silence and serious talk about relationship. Told exactly the same like you, that she has that freedom of choosing. Only thing is she's afraid to get back together cus maybe we'll get lazy and still end breaking up.
But there's no way to know that without trying, cus at least i know what i did wrong before.
Anyway after i drove her home she hugged me, but not like before, this time long and strongly - that might mean something i guess.
Today has been kinda silent cus her friend are over our appartment again but asked to meet tomorrow to talk about weekend.
I told her yesterday that im planing on going to city and whole evening she thought about it and wants to come along and for few days.
Well, seems like "good" signs but don't know if it's a right choice - That would mean a hotel or a spa where she wants to be together anyway, but we agreed to take it really slow.
Cus she doesn't want to stay at her fathers alone (he might ask where i am) it's a confusing situation. Cus i know, when i go without her, she will be dissapointed and back to square one.
As you correctly said, there is no way of knowing if this is correct unless you try. Keep this going. This path will also make you realize what you really want from your life partner. But don't rush into anything. There is still a lot of time for you to make that decision.
Yeah i really hope that they are good signs. Ofc it's impossible to get everything right with just few days/weeks and it will take lots of time and work i guess. But you're right im gonna keep going and see what will happen. We met today evening and agreed to go to spa for 2 days - that's kinda rushing at my point of view but hopefuly everything will go well and get us closer. She wants us to stay in city till tuesday so i don't have to drive to island(leaving abroad wednesday and her friends will come to city with whom she can go to island. And ofc then we have to find a place to crash, suitable for her. But there's also some trust issues from me. First of all, she hides her phone while texting with someone when im around and ofc that dude would come to pick her up from city.
Don't know maybe im just overthinking everything, im not usually jealous type of person.
Just deep down i have this wierd feeling i can't shake off.
There is a very fine balance when it comes to dealing with suspicions. For now, you need to use these two days of spa to re-kindle the romance that was amiss. You need to re-build the communication system where you both are able to speak your minds. I would never advice you to be ignorant either. If there is a suspicion in your minds, speak it out. But put your case in a manner that would not hamper your relationship. If you feel that you want more depth to this relationship, then make more time for each other. It could be texts, calls or skype. Some where you need to keep this ball rolling. Yes, there is a point where we OVER analyze things, but thats fine. Avoid the temptation to react immediately. Once you are calm, then speak it out.
There is no such thing as a perfect relationship. At every moment of your life you will have to handle the situation as it comes. I've learnt that it is very important to enjoy the bliss when it is there and never ever be ignorant or naive in a relationship.
So do spend some time re-building up the bond in these two days when you are together. Avoid having any pre-concieved notions.
I got a huge dissapointment and suspicion this morning about spa and everything when i had to visit shop and had to drive pass our appartment.
Saw that dudes car in front of parking lot. Since we drove around yesterday evening i saw that he was working and he has 24h shifts.
He doesn't live there and as much as i know he has a cousin or family friend living there. Atleast for me it's way wierd and suspicious to go after so long working day to meet or sleep there around 8am on working day. And ofc that's not the first time. She has told me that, she isn't responcible if that car is there and she doesn't have to prove herself. Don't know if i just let it slide as far as we are back from spa? That would give me some overview of lots of things like acting around me for 2 days etc. But yea it's kinda pain in the a..
Ofc i know her personality and how she hates cheating, but people can change tho. And like you said, gonna talk about it when i'm calm. Need to overthink everything, way too many confusing thoughts right now to speak my mind.
You ruh-huh-heally alarmed her, like I said, with whatever you originally did/said. AND you played silly games rather than re-wooed (including using showing faith and patience): I know you didn't know for certain she'd see you but - "(just in case) MWA-HA-HA, YOU'RE SO FUNNY AS WELL AS HOT, "FRIEND" IN MALL". Go and sit on the Naughty Step, Pepe le Poo.
'Might be good signs', pff. You must attract an awful lot of honking any time you hit a set of traffic lights ("It's GREEN, you tw*t, GO!").
This bloke's her 'gay friend' (in the same boat of only just out of the same boat, having come out smelling of roses and newly wanting to put his new "relationship guru" capability to the test on other couples) (seen it a thousand times), because she cannot handle you (without the requisite matching level of TRUST) on her own; you're heart's huge thus scary. That means you've been 'foie-gras-ing' her. So *of course* she guards her phone/personal-assistant-lifeline. She and he are talking about you/yours and her relationship. State secrets (for now).
SLOOOOW DOOOOWN, Mr Hyperactive. Just because the light's gone from Amber to Green, and you recommence moving along, doesn't mean the road limit is suddenly 90. It's 30 mainly, sometimes 50. SHE'S 'SAID' SO AND IS NOW REPEATING IT.
She wants to observe and enjoy the scenery and left and right, to work out where you're taking her, get used to the new environment (etc., etc.) and is not very appreciative of seeing just a blur as you pelt yourself and her along. So let her feel like she's got back some control (her rightful portion) of the pace at which you feed/invest and she has to feed back/invest back.
She obviously does want a real relationship but equally obviously chose/accepted a long-distance version so that she this time *wouldn't* find herself up the side of the Love Mountain with a 100ft drop to the bottom AND NO ADEQUATE SAFETYNET (trust) for "just in case".
Focus on building up the trust (being predictable) side. And then "Boring Nice Guy"-proof yourself by surprising her (nice surprises). Total Sum: Safe but never boring (bingo!).
That's right (in case it's occurred to you): *Anything* done too much too soon or by the same token not done enough in time, feels abusive. Any extreme of anything. Black Forest Gateau is only yummy and enjoyable if you can eat it at your own pace. Forced down your throat - not so much.
Spa trip went kinda great, first day she got jealous to a girl who wrote me while driving to city and asked if it's ok if she answers to her. I didn't mind it. Anyway since we arrived kinda late we took food and went to hotel, watched some movies etc. It was awkward to sleep separat in 1 bed but like you said, "nice and slow". Well second day started early, thought we go shopping and get her new bikinis for spa. Had fun ofc. Later at spa we ate and went to pool, where she kissed me first time in a while. So yeah that came as a suprise.After we went back to room we agreed to watch film and just enjoy rest of the evening( and i was again suprised to see her revealing her body in front of me) BUT, something changed. She was on her phone for 3h in a row? I played with our cat, tryed to talk to her but she got mad cus i asked whom you're talking to and shall we watch a movie etc. Anyway, i saw that it was that dude. And after she finished, then ofc bed time. Well that was a disappointment for me. I mean 3h of "our time" really?
So next day we went shopping again, got her some nice clothes. After we drove back to island, again she was talking to that guy most of the time. Anyway i asked if she was pleased with that trip, first she said yep, but after some talking, she told that seems like i havent changed, cus you were "angry" while being together. Umm. I was kind and loving to the phone part when i got "pulled back" and disappointed. Anyway after i drove her to our apartment, helped her get stuff inside, small hug and left.
About hour later she texted thanks but she feels bad cus i wasted so much money on her(clothes,spa, etc.) told that it's ok and was worth it.
Anyway, next day we didn't spoke at all. And the day going abroad she came to city with that dude. We didn't meet but later in evening i didn't make a fuzz of it and asked how was the trip. "Ok".
Anyway yeah i thought fk it im gonna start a positive month, no matter what happens. Since it's my last time abroad here, im enjoying every day Started working out again. Anyway 2 days ago she told "you don't have to talk to me if you don't want ". And do i even wanna meet and hang, when im back.
I was confused but that got cleared. She thought im not so intrested of us anymore, told that that's not true, and whole evening went nicely, talked, laughed. But yea, communication is very very tight and slow, but not gonna drag my positive energy down
Time to time she sends pics of our apartment, new decorations, songs and yesterday a house near city( i guess a dream of her). It's just wierd that uthis whole mess is going on for so long. I mean if you love a person, you'll make her/him priority. I have my doubts that she's testing a new relationship and dragging me along as far as she's sure what to do next.
Oh well, but cheers to all who has responded and many thx
I think it is time for you to be more aware of what the current situation. If someone is just wanting to play mind games with you, then you shouldn't entertain that. For what ever reasons that she is confused in her mind about you or that other guy, it isn't your problem. I do strongly believe that you should fight for someone who you truly love or a relationship that you truly believe in. But this is a case where you can't do much cause she has a complete different thought process to it. She is enjoying the company of someone else and trying to find more happiness from you. Which i think is not correct.
I do wait to hear from Soulmate. But i would suggest you to not give in so much any more. Don't react to it. Let her play out her mind games. These mind games shouldn't have any impact on you. Life is very simple. She needs to decide if she really wants to be with you or no. If she can't, then you need to wish her good luck and move on in life. I honestly wouldn't wait for her to speak out the words. But i also understand your anxiety about this whole thing.
You are absolutely right, with such things fate will go away. I did object with that, but I wasn't harsh, cus tried to be kind and loving and she got mad anyway. So yea in that point of view i was a puppet and that's not correct.
Like i told before, i started a "positive" month, so yeah I'm analyzing current situation nice and slow. Cus like you said, those mind games aren't my problem and not gonna make them. She has to choose and she as opportunity to either stay or leave. Just getting sick and tired of those games.
Anyway about situation, cus i have kinda much activities now, i have less time to be in internet to talk to her. She again started to make conversation more and more, for example why don't i talk to her and ofc back to sending "heart,kisses" emoticons to me. I guess that's just way of showing not to let go. But i don't care about emoticons or words, i need actions. And like you told, not to give so much effort anymore, that's what i also did last night, usually i tell her, good night or something, but not this time, just like she uses to do, i left "during" (typing sentences per +ten min) convention. And this moring she already had writen that misses me etc.
I have thought about waiting more, but enough i guess. After i get back from abroad, gonna ask her if she wants a full time relationship with me or not, cus im just exhausted going back and forth and waiting for her to speak mind. But ofc I also suspect she holds on to me also cus i help her financially cus she's unemployed.
Anyway cheers and hope to hear some more advice!
Can you kindly explain this statement of yours "But ofc I also suspect she holds on to me also cus i help her FINANCIALLY cus she's unemployed" ? More so the financial support thing.
Well that's my opinion/suspect that, if i would stop paying rent/bills she wouldn't make it, cus she has no place to go. Doesn't talk to her mother and can't go there, cus of recent argument. I mean, i have told her that im not a sponsor but she was so offended of it that made a big fight out of it. (Over month ago) "She will live under the tree, i should know about her health, thx for leaving me with nothing, etc." Maybe just over thinking it but that's a possibility right? Comfort zone, testing relationship, good to be alone in our apartment, etc.
You can decide on what you really want to do with this relationship when you meet her or how ever it plays on in these few days. But don't ever mix money with pleasure. You can never never make such huge commitments without having something solid on your side. Yes, it is a nice gesture to help someone. But you chose to help her because she was in a relationship with you. And why wouldn't someone doubt that she is only with you because her bills are paid for. Well, hell yeah i would be in a relationship with someone if they paid my rent and bills for me. You get the point ?
I would certainly pay for all the expenses once i get married to someone. But that is because i know this person means everything to me and vice versa. About her not being able to sustain herself, well she will have to figure out a way to work that out. If she needs a loan, guidance or some help getting a job, you are most welcomed to help her out. But this is not your responsibility.
We are not wanting to go in the extreme negative zone at the moment. And i don't want you to misunderstand that too. But you need set some boundaries for your own safety. It may be that she just needs some time to grow and learn ways of life. She may genuinely be confused of what she should do. So lets not over react too. You should make time for her if it is possible for you. If not, dont feel guilty about it. As i have told you before too, that there is no right or wrong way of making a relationship work.
But yes, i strongly suggest you to re-asses your financial commitment towards her. You need to explain to her that the dependency of both isn't going to happen. Just incase you are a very wealthy person and you wish to help her out, feel free to do so. But this should stay separate from your relationship with her. I do find it difficult to work this out in real life though. So do sit down and re-asses where you are really heading with all of this.
And im not going to a negative zone, maybe yea she need more time and have to see how that works out. For example after work and workout yesterday i got supriced by a call from her. Time went fast and talked 3h. (Told that she wants move to city with me, etc.) Well that's positive to see her making some effort and intrest in me and hopefully not a freaking mind game again. At the end of the call she asked if im glad to hear from her and after she gets phone back from warranty, we should talk again. Meanwhile in internet.
But the thing is why im so "helpful" towards her financially is cus we talked about marriage, family and ofc idea was to engage in April. Well that's not gonna happen anytime soon, if at all.
Anyway im not gonna let hope get in and just see how it will go when i get back. Meanwhile gonna stay positive.
But ofc have to discuss lots of things, especially if this relationship going to work out. And ofc not gonna be that "puppet" anymore. If there's similar problem with that dude then I'm going to object. I should be priority not him.
Am very glad to see that you are keeping this positive attitude. Don't get saddened if there are ups & downs in this relationship. Even when you meet her, your objective should be enjoying your relationship. Being stern towards infidelity should be a virtue you should express to her if the need be.
Anyways, i should stop giving you life lessons for now (before i turn into a life coach) ! Hahaha !
You're absolutely right about protecting ourselves. Gonna keep up that positive vibe no matter what. Like you said, even if there's ups and downs.
That life coach suites you.
Also looking forward what Soulmate has to say to all of this Cheers!
No, Harry did not miss that seemingly humungous elephant in your marital-non-marital room. Only from what I read after you disclosed it, Woozy, even then you didn't seem to believe it was much of an issue. Correct?
Does it automatically mean a woman has to be using you because you - YOU, NOTE - have offered - OFFERED, NOTE - to support her through a financially difficult time? Can she not love you *and* be in the financial sh*t? Or is just because we know there *are* women who'll use you UNDER COVER of a genuinely needy woman thus, without a tattoo on their forehead to proclaim so, can't easily be distinguished until the sh*te hits the Red?
Tell me how it came about, Woozy.
But in the meantime, we do have scope to find out via pointers (dem lovely actions):
1. She seemed to vocalise discomfort with your "spoilinguh her, Ambassador" (- name the chocolates ad) re the clothes 'n stuff.
2. She's now said for the Nth time - but, the point here being - freshly reiterated - that she wants to move to the City with you. Does Mr Guru live there or would it mean geographically leaving him behind?
But you're right i can't assume she's using me, since I offered. And as much as i know her, she wouldn't do it, just my silly mind and over thinking.
Ofc she was happy when we were shoping, but later just felt discomfort that i wasted so much money on her and got nothing for myself. And by moving to city, that's an eyeopener indeed, cus he lives and works here on island. So i should "bury" that insecurity with that.
It's like realy complicated to communicate and to make things better since she still is "recovering" from everything. Giving short answers and if i reply same(sometimes cus im busy) or so, she thinks im changed my mind about her. But a day at the time and we'll see. She thought about spa again so, that's a good sign again. Anyway just arrived back from abroad and within next days we're gonna meet i guess.
One tip: emails, and texts especially, are notorious for causing trouble by creating negative misinterpretations or opportunities for such for the insecure-feeling recipient, ask any relationship guru ("Texts are death to romantic relationships!"). The phone's much better to avoid all of that nonsense because the person gets strong clarification and contextualisation from your tone and pace, etc., etc. (more signals to read = misinterpreting far less likely, in other words). Plus, women are more audial anyway, so gain a lot of reassurance and wooing value out of your voice. In which case, you're missing a far more 'in-one' efficiency trick and instead taking the harder, longer route. "A stitch in time saves nine" (ever hear that one?).
But I can tell from what you've said, that she was making 'under-fed' noises. So it would seem that (certainly while her radar's a bit oversensitive, still) in certain areas with some things she likes smaller helpings, and larger helpings in/with others. E.g. where you're "spoiling-guh her" with a shopping trip (and her overall reaction, how she handled it, somewhat disappointing you), she'd rather get given more loving and romantic expressiveness in your texts (and how you're handling it is disappointing her).
Hug her with your physical self (incl. voice) more than with your wallet, otherwise, women who *aren't* gold-diggers, despite might be in an unfortunate position when you come across them, and who *are* in it for the long haul, can feel fobbed off or downright deprived and insulted.
You're tending to do the typical blokie thing of forgetting to be your own narrator, I'm betting, i.e. not explaining WHY you're this and that or not-this and not-that, compared to when in situation normal. Try something more, "Hi beautiful! Have to be REALLY brief because [reason] but I just needed to squeeze in a hurried hi, for now, and tell you that I miss you. You up for a phone chat [later/tomorrow/whenever]? xxxx"
But, anyway, now that YOU were calmer (you can't both be het-up chimps in the same timeframe, eh, LOL) - how did the meeting-up go? And when's this spa thing again?
I know the phone/text thing is the worst way to communicate, you'll never know exact emotions etc. For example if im busy working and give a short answer to her aswell, she thinks something is wrong. Or i get confused why isn't she replaying for hours but she was sleeping(been sick for almost a week). The stich phrase never heard of. But i have offered many times to go over just to hug or since i was near by but so far nothing. Only when we agree to go out, then we go.
Anyway by spoiling i haven't done much lately and not going to before we get back on track. I have "wooed" her quite much not just by text, but also the time we met and went out. Hah what remindes me, when i got back from abroad i thought we would meet up but she had plans with friends. So i dicided to go out also and drink with my friends. It was a great night tho but morning was horrible, cus first of all i didn't get a cab to go home and the line was to big. So i stayed at my friends place and drouble in paradise when she woke up. Fist why was i online so early in the morning and where am i etc. Told everything like it was but she thought i was with a girl in my friends place lol. I was shocked but also got a big laugh out of myself. Anyway i made a pictures of apartment, me on bed and noone here . Well the next day we got together first time. Was bit tence since haven't seen each other long time. And ofc, my friend's(female) phone went nuts and started calling over and over, perfect timing right? So had to explan once again i have nothing with others etc. Evening went, mm.. ok i guess considering almost 20 days of not seeing each other.
Second meeting - before she got sick, about week ago went kinda awkwardly. Yea we talked about past/our lives in city/our cat etc, had some fun but also wierd vibes. And ofc you know who called her couple of times before she went to our appartment. It got somehow mysterious(maybe to me) after i walked her to the door and hugged, but it was kinda cold and "friendly" hug. Oh well, i left and thought ah fk it, not gonna make a fuzz about it. Just gonna give some time her to figure it out. Told that im heading to city next day and if intrested, can come along. Well since she didn't answer and i saw her being online till early morning thought that aah, gonna make "my day", turned off my internet and drove to city, then came back and went to a party since it was friday anyways. Well, from there i heard lot's of wierd and irritating things about that dude and my gf. For example he has been sleeping over "couple?" of times is she my or his gf etc.
Anywho next day after i put my internet on, she already typed, where am i, why not responding etc. So i took a deep breath, asked her about that dude again.. said i don't approve such behavior. Told that don't do things that you don't want others to do yourself etc. She explained that he hasn't been alone there, and after a party they have crashed on couch, she seperately on her room and she understands me. I pointed out that IF she wants to get things better between us, those things don't just make it easier. After long conversation during a day asked if we should meet but then illness happened. Well, those actions make insecurities in me. Trust issues etc.
Over past week we have spoken more, she has said that she loves me, time apart wants makes feelings stronger not weeker. One night she woke up and started panicing/crying and wrote me that she's afraid i don't love her anymore but she wants us/family/home etc. Today she asked if i want to go to her fathers and sisters birthday on 22 and 28th april. Also since she's getting better, today she'll have friends over cus promised for many days and tomorrow wants to meet. We'll see if actions follow up with those lovely words, cus otherwise i start to doubt. Cus i act same as i say if being kind and loving towards her. But.. Well i think, here's some kind of "progress".
Ah right.. Spa - We agreed to go there on her sisters birthday next month, it's kinda nostalgic spa for us since after we met, we went and stayed there at the beginning of our relationship. But ofc today she sent me a link of other spa aswell with "good offer", so we'll see.
Do you mean, you (understandably in the circs) felt some satisfaction out of the fact she was clearly rattled at the thought you had a woman with you at your friend's place? Because you took it as a positive reading?
What's missing, though? How come you didn't state your complaint about her not having ...er.... READ YOUR MIND??? Sorry, but, if you'd expected her to make room in her schedule then isn't that what asking out on a date is for? Or *is* she Mystic Meg (and if so, can I have her autograph)?
Woozy, seriously - is this relationship too intense too soon and it's *that* which has got you *both* running around like ambushing one minute, trembling paranoically the next, headless chickens? You act like you're SCARED of each other! You're so *defensive*, the pair of you!
Can you see why I'm saying this?
It looks like this:
You're cheating on me!
No, you're cheating on ME!
No, you are!
NO, YOU!!!...or you're at least trying to!
No, you're trying to!
(How's about Neither? :-p)
And can you see that your need to ego-equalise up there - for a slight that wasn't even! (she's not a mind-reader and you is da man, you do dee asking out during dee chase/re-chase!) - needlessly and avoidably caused yet another fine mess? Another OTT rollercoaster ride?
What does 'mm, ok' mean? You mean you sh*gged but, lacking or no fireworks compared to usual or something? ("Interpretor...?!")
It's good that you didn't react to her, what was at the time probably just a fleeting mood, anyway. So that's progress. But that was 'in your face'; your problem happens when the signals are incomplete or interpretable either way ("is she, isn't she, eek!"). You forgot your 'teddybear': she wants to move to the city with you and that means FARTHER AWAY FROM HIM (duuuh). Also - if she's got a thing going on with him then she's already, super-prematurely cheating on him, isn't she. *With you*. So there can't be any 'thing', can there. If there were a thing then - why haven't they run off over the sunset together yet? What are they waiting for - a No. 99 open-top, Blue & Yellow-striped, double-decker bus?
Take thy head in both thy hands and twist it violently from 'quarter-to' (negative) to 'quarter past' (positive), please/thank-you. (AND USE YOUR MOUTH FROM NOW ON - TO ASK why this, why that, why not this or that?) You'll find the immediate, mid-range and long-range views *far* more attractive and pleasing, A'im shure.
In other words: it's you. You started it. And without a start, there's no middle and certainly no end. So now that I've pointed out to you that 'altogether miss-able', little, 'read my mind' nugget up there - how many of the times has it been you, do you suppose?
And yes, of course she was on the phone to him. She'd rung him for help earlier about whether or not you'd had a woman with you, this was an ongoing checking-up/update exercise between her and her relationship assistant!
You see? You're not thinking. Too busy jumping at shadows.
'Can come along'? Oh - can I? What a lovely proposal! Yeayy, I'm a tag-along, I feel sooooo luuuurved. ...and then you wonder why she didn't answer? (Bring your face closer to the monitor for a minute, can you?....)
I'm glad that bit turned out okay, but, you two need to start taking regular breaks - Time-Out (30 mins, try again, 45 mins, try again...) - the minute this sort of thing starts to occur. To stop it from escalating. Hell, *say* Time-Out! if you have to? You both WANT this relationship to survive and prosper, don't you, it's worth that little mutual open-communication effort, isn't it? You're starting to climb the walls whenever you think there's cause for alarm, from what I can see. It'll do your trust issues the power of good, clear a lot of the scary smoke so that the pair of you can start to see better and cease being so ready to panic and assume the worst all the time.
THINK about it - think about if you'd thought or remembered to actually ASK her to clear a space in her schedule? NOW where's the added need for disappointment and suspicion and all that followed? And think about if, alternatively, you'd immediately said to her something like, 'Aww no, are you trying to tell me you didn't know to clear a space for us?'. Surely she'd have said, 'Well, I didn't know?! I didn't even know if you WANTED to see me or not!'. (And - could you really blame her if that was the case, when you've been feeling the exact same?)
I'm not surprised she was ill. Upset stomach, I imagine. It's usually once the 'explosion and gunfire' are over that all the stress comes out...in its various formats. Perfectly common reaction. So there's more reason to believe her than not, right?
You definitely (OH DEFINITELY!) scare the bejeezuz out of her, I have zero doubt now. Well, the fear of losing this relationship, anyway, and you intermittently acting like you don't mind if you do. I mean - what do you think SHE was thinking when no invitation to clear a space were forthcoming, under the circumstances?
I'm saying all of this (i.e. lecturing your ears off as nicely as poss) despite the more positive outcome that ensued, because it'll only keep repeating, otherwise. You need that fail-safe safety-aid mechanism or else you both just get caught up in piling more and more worrisome behaviour on top of the already steaming lump of you-know-what. K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple, Stupid (Americanism, not me insulting you).
This relationship/your chemistry is *very* intense. *Too* intense. The fear of loss/rejection by the other on both sides is *huge*. Meaning, it's sent the needle round the continuum from Bonny & Bouncing to Overstuffed & Liable To Explode. If you don't henceforth try to foreshorten said under-the-table fireworks display with said T-O.
Saying that, for an especially intense relationship, it's normal. One of the downsides, I'm afraid. So if you can't manufacture enough Trust balm in record time, you're going to have to take a shuffle backwards from one another, I'm afraid. Either/Or. Well... there is a third option: Faith.
Tell me what I mean. Faith in what or whom?
Lastly but not leastly: why is SHE always the one to be first to tell you how much she loves you, hmm, I say, HMMMMM? Usually it's the man. It's him demonstrating his quality called Courage or Courage Under Fire.
Are you even saying it back? Cos I'll tell ya: that one, not echoing, is a BIG, under-the-table, delayed-reaction-style fire-starter! Is that why the 'bring your bag' gesture?
Yeah i know this relationship is too intense and we do run like headless chickens. But at my point of view, IF you say you love, miss etc howcome it's "hard" to show it in actions, eh? I forgave her lots and lots of things and still, i act upon my love towards her. I mean it has been going on for almost 4 months.. how much time a person needs, that's just mysterious for me. And the cheating thing makes sence, like you said IF she even cheats then she cheats on both of us and that's not a good start on "new" relationship. So yeah making peace with that.It's not my conscious that suffers IF there's something going on.
Anyway, about chasing her - basicly i'm the only one who asks to go out or to meet. And to be clear i have asked to clear scedual for me and the first time it happened was when we last met. Usually her plans involves friends. Yesterday i wanted to suprice her also and went to our appartment, called and asked if she has time to meet just for 5min or so. Anyway told maybe another time. And 10min later wrote that friends came over to say hi. Well that was a "mood pooper". As open as i am, didn't hesitate to ask if friends comes first and me second. Welll got a lot's of "fire" backwords, explaned that we can simply talk without anger and it's not hard to say "ofc honey don't worry, i was busy at the moment or so". Well as calm as i were, got back on track and issue got cleared.
Well trying to build trust and i guess we are making some kind of progress. I mean, birthdays with her family coming soon and maybe going to city next week.
Oh you totaly misunderstood, she isn't always the first to say it. Usually im the one who talks about feeligs, but ofc she also time to time. Taking some memory trip back to our life in city(just two of us, not that much jealousy etc). Even when we last met, i told her but didn't get a respond. I guess she's afraid to say it out loud, only to write it or i don't know.
What isn't good, though - reassurance after the fact or not, no matter how speedily - is giving her ANY means for any such negative suspicions in the first place because it's that very intermittently mistrustful state of mind which keeps powering her side of this joint behaviour. In other words, you can't play (negative) tennis if one of you doesn't have a racquet.
Saying that, the fact you were willing to go to the trouble of providing concrete evidence will go a very long way to rebuilding trust so - TICK! Keep that up! If you're completely transparent, pre-emptively considerate, and willing to do what it takes to keep her from 'flapping' for long enough, there comes a point where, if she FAILS to calm down in that respect then you'll know it's not you, never was you, and is all about her and an inability to trust. IOW, you eliminate yourself from the enquiry to see what you're left with. (Sense?)
It's hard to put your money where your mouth is if you (this case, her) feel you still have a 'love bank' deficit. In other words, where the love exchange is like, you put 10p in the love bank as or right before she herself puts 10p in the love bank - she might well feel that for a while she was the one who'd been continuing to deposit her 10 pences while you had either ceased or had been putting in less. In which case, she's going to wait until you catch up to her amount. Whether it's a fact or 'just' her perception - she's not meant to be the brave one who 9 times out of 10 makes every first move, meaning, you think *you're* scared but it's NOTHING compared to her own extent. IF say, another barnie occurred whereby you both thought you were broken-up, she'd be powerless to do anything about it lest she fancied painting herself to herself (and possibly you) as "desperate", thereby inviting a dent to her self-esteem (and no amount of modern-day culture or feminism is going to stop that 'programme' from running in her jello). You have no such restraints, have total freedom; if you chase after an ex, that's just manly go-getting, "rarr!". So she has more to risk/lose. See it now?
What's been going on for 4 months is bad habits that cause fright. So that's why (LOL) you've been seeing scaredy-cat behaviour for 4 months almost on the trot. (Logical? No? Yes? LOL) If you want different results you have to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. And consistently and sustainedly enough for it to take permanent effect. She has to know she's SAFE before she'll hug the (lately) potentially unsafe thing.
Example of how things could have been different: if the first thing you'd done online had been to email/IM *her* to *tell* her where you were, whom with, and why, then.... goes without saying, doesn't it? That's what I meant by EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. Just until you show you're safe (yet not boring). Little frights that get quickly soothed are things like, not phoning bang on 9pm at night (because you got waylaid, say) but at 9.20, whereupon you explain fully why the lateness. That's fright-soothe enough at this stage, considering the back history, don't you think? It's in your interest to keep her feeling calm and safe, capable of actually focusing on *the relationship* and the natural excitement it itself brings (called, Gosh, where are we going, how deep can this get - who knows? Unchartered territory - ooh, exciting!).
And anyway, what exactly has been going on for 4 months is, by your own admission, not much ("I have "wooed" her quite much not just by text, but also the time we met and went out."). Quite much (yawn). Admit it, you didn't dare go more than that. And the last 4 months - HER REACTIONS - which you're reacting as actions - are why. See? You can't BOTH be headless chickens, *someone's* got to be the brave one who cuts all crap so that the other follows suit. And since you WON'T ever find yourself having to squeeze a small human out of your bottom orifice whilst convinced you're surely going to die, you got this one (fair's fair...six of one, half-a-dozen of the other; same amount of sh*t, each, different type of sh*t).
Yes, she wasn't cheating on *you* during your first Honeymoon flush, was she. So (were she now), it says he's woefully inadequate as a potential. Plus there the, not keeping him under wraps aspect and the willingness to leave him behind in the country. So he's not a candidate in that way anyway, as you now appreciate.
"As open as i am, didn't hesitate to ask if friends comes first and me second."
How exactly did you word it? (Not like that, I hope?!)
What was wrong with, 'Well, then, I'm jealous as hell because I miss you like buggery...but never mind, you're worth waiting a bit longer for...have a lovely time. '? She (and her friends) would think, 'Aww, what a sweetie!'. If they *didn't*?...pff, then what would be there to lose? Who wants a woman who can't appreciate a man's sweet side? Would you?
She needs respite from this scary relationship. Breathers. Her friends probably re-fill her confidence tank. And anyway, I'd put serious money on the fact that the main topic of conversation is you-you and more you. She needs that too. Plus, we're back to the love bank analogy: if she feels this relationship is precarious, still, she'll want to tend to her friendships so that they're there to catch her in case.
How did it get cleared?
Of course you're making progress. But it's slower than you'd like. So what I've suggested up there should speed it up without cutting corners as necessitates going back and re-doing it again properly.
Properly is your key word from now on. For example 'mmm, okay' and 'which got cleared'. TOO VAGUE/GENERAL. Details including dialogue next time, please/thanks.
If you're the one who normally initiates the hearts and flowers then why didn't you there and then echo?
"I guess she's afraid to say it out loud, only to write it or i don't know."
You do know. You just said it. If she types it but you fail to echo it, her 'face is saved' by the fact you can't see her dismay and humiliation. However, INTO THE BANK goes another little nugget of resentment, meaning, next time you do or appear to do something iffy - out it comes (makes a meal of where otherwise wouldn't have).
Woo her like crazy (hearts and flowers both verbal and concrete, lots of informing and pre-explaining and heading potential trouble off at the pass, etc.) so that you can find out, IS it you or is it her or is it both and to what degree? Then you'll know PRECISELY what you're dealing with and how to put paid to it in record time. Simples!
"Good effort but could try harder (see me after class)".
This is your 'Lambourghini' we're talking about here. You have to become a particularly accomplished driver of this mean yet super-sensitive, super-responsive, very desirable machine before you'll even qualify for entering it competitively or winning the race trophy. Which doesn't include clipping the kerb, wiggling the steering wheel for the fun of it, labouring the engine, straining the gears, over-revving, or driving the damn thing headlong into a tree.
That's it! This is your life opportunity to become skilled at something really quite tricky and reap the huge rewards, and to grow and develop as an individual (self-enhance) because of and through it.
Since today was the date we met first time I made a suprice visit to our apartment but sadly she had friends over, so we met outside. Firstly again she brought me my belongins, that I don’t understand why? I mean I haven’t asked anything that I need, or is that somekind of excuse to her friends? That was a downfall first, but didn’t show it to her and got over it. But yea talked, laughed gave her flowers and asked if she could make some time for us tomorrow. She wasn’t sure at the time, but later messaged that ok if she’s feeling well(had a sore throat, and cold). Although the dude was there, that didn’t change my mood, so that’s a huge step forward from my point of view.
Anyway you’re right, by gaining trust and making safe for her I should do something different. Being more confident rather than scaredy-cat if something feels wrong – because she truly has more to lose than me. I have explained myself but not always every step, but gonna try differently now – if I go out, with who, where etc and see how that goes.
Lately we haven’t talked about leaving island, well hell I would like to and leave this mess behind but we’ll see. By the “friend come first thing I asked if she didn’t want to see me or why she was willing to let friends in but not me. I see that was a mistake but important is that it got cleared, I talked sweetly, that I wanted to see her so bad but turned out other way. Anyway I’m gonna keep on going being sweet/lovely even more and IF she doesn’t respect or appreciate it, then you’re right, I have done my part and it’s her not me.
Even if she says first that she loves me or something like that, I always replay the same. The main “problem” with her is that she always has been stuck with past and letting it go. Even in her last relationship before me – used to say to me that I act same like him and she’s certain that I will leave her some day like he did (Always provided safety, not to worry). And same goes for now, still stuck in past – I hurt her. Trying to get her forget, make her laugh or whatever necessary not to go into negatives. The “sad” part is that she doesn’t accept being or doing something wrong and that’s hard to deal with. Everyone make mistakes. Whether you accept and learn from them or ignore them. I prefere learing and accepting.
Aaah right about her talking to friends about me reminded that she has repeatedly said that she isn't talking about our problems to anyone, cus it's not polite and others don't need to know - I never asked if talks to others.
Regards your 'do something different', I think the key to remember is that the way to make yourself feel safe is to focus on how safe you can make her feel (man leads). This is very much a case of where meeting your own needs by meeting the needs of the other is entirely called for and not unhealthy. And regarding her having handed over your stuff, that was obviously in reaction to the fact you hadn't asked for a date yet had then effectively sulked out of the fact that neither had she. Again - take control. Lead.
Ref her 'certainty' (Mystic Meg, is she?), she sounds as if she got into this new relationship strictly-speaking that bit too soon after her last relationship, hence is still stuck in negative mode. Correct?
So - update?
By making her safe, oh belive me, im doing everything i can to prove that. And handing over my belongins, i woundn't say that i haven't asked out, cus all i do is ask her out, but she usually has other plans, studying with friends(hanging) and health problems or just wanting to be alone. But yea i think also that she got into new relatsionship to fast and stuck in past cos of it. But i mean, over 2 years of knowing and living together should change that attitude right?
Since she's finishing school and struggling with exams we don't meet that much. We did went to her fathers birthday 2 weeks ago and it was great. Her sisters bithday got canceled cus she got a high fever last week. I tried everything to comfort her, to be there for her and once she agreed that i can go over and take care of her. The wierd part for me was that even tho she was sick next day she had friends over. Anyway, since we didn't make it to her sisters last week we went 2 days ago and again, it was great except few things. Her sister and mother asked her
if we are back together or just friends and her words(like she told me) were that we are just hanging and looking what will happen. - i mean hell, i don't feel like just hanging, im doing my best to prove what ever necessary that im there for her and means everything for me. And since we visited also her grandmother and grandpa, that was hard for me, cus they know we are that "happy" couple like always and i hate to act and lie so. But overall the trip was great and we stayed at hotel. After i droped her off to our appartment she wrote me that she had a great time and sad it lasted not so long. Yesterday asked to meet again but she had a bad mood cus of exam and didn't want to.
Right now i accepted last construction working site on this island and then plan is to move to city again, hopefuly before end of this month. It seems that she's still intrested of coming with me, sent me some links of new appartments. One thing is mysterious for me - she wants to live in city with me but here on island we barely meet and don't live togheter. That's kinda out of balance, how not now but later it's ok?
Aah, one other thing. It seems like she wants to control my life too much, to whom i speak or go out with. Everythime i ask her out and if she has other plans, i'll say ok maybe next time and wish her beautiful day/evening. If she asks what im going to do and for example my neighbour friends(female) and my cousin wants to do something then there's a problem. If she has male friends then howcome i can't have female friends especially who i know from my childhood. Anyway like always i provide her safety not to worry, just friends, nothing will ever come between us etc.
For past few weeks i have tried my best to be cheerful, loving/caring, but she has some new attitude, when something doesn't feel right to her, she's like ok fine, what ever, bye, have fun etc. So yeah VERY mixed emotions. I kindly asked that can we please communicate like adults and not talk negatively like that. We want to get things better, not worse. Ofc she agreed but we'll see. I feel some tension in air from her side, maybe cus of exams, hopefuly. I don't know if im pushing to much or what's the problem. When we are together, i fondle her hair, arms and when she was sick she liked it. Kissing forehead and not wanting anything for return, just to show her how i feel etc.
I think there's some progress, since she takes me to her family again. But still, doing things differently and more caringly doesn't seem to hasten things up. She's still distant and only expresses her emotions due text not by act. Except once 2 days ago in hotel, when i woke up, she was already looking at me and had a long and loving hug that felt perfect.
Anyway that's all i guess.
Two years can either change it *or* can unwittingly, even inadvertently, provide a catalyst to a lot of old baggage getting brought to the surface and fore in sharp relief. A lot of women (and men) find themselves confused all over again when their new relationship seems to challenge prior conclusions formed during the grieving process. That means they've got to get all the files back out of the archive system and basically do a lot of it from scratch. Even simple things like, 'Jim always said my coffee was crap, yet here's John begging for more! So it *wasn't* that I was a crap coffee maker, it was him wanting things to criticise me over!'. Likes Snakes & Ladders it can trigger you falling down a snake to an earlier square on the board ("earwigo again!"). And then there's the grieving process that gets foreshortened simply because the person can't hack the long, drawn-out on/off heartache, hence they jump to said misconclusions (*an* answer is better than none). Now the woman (or man) has to re-examine a whole load of other related events/incidents under that new light. Comprendes? And it's worse if the woman's serially dated plonker after plonker and then - bam! - gets a good'un. It's not their comfort zone, they have to adapt to it. Slowly, gradually, usually. That's why I think you've been rushing her. Blokes tend to do their filing underneath their own conscious radars, including while they sleep (dreaming), whereas woman tend more to feel every little drop of the process. It's possible her mind can't cope with the new emotional data sheets that every further interaction with you produces while still possessing a huge backlog for re-processing. It places them under too much emotional and mental stress. So you lead behaviourally but allow her to feel more in control of the rate of dates/new sheets.
Certainly, that's why it's not a good idea to jump straight back onto the horse's back when thrown unless you're a back onto the horse merchant (for-real, I mean, not purely for self-flattery and over-estimation of oneself + under-estimation of the ex-relationship impact/extent of reasons). ESPECIALLY not when one has added pressures like taking exams(!!!).
" I tried everything to comfort her, to be there for her and once she agreed that i can go over and take care of her. The wierd part for me was that even tho she was sick next day she had friends over."
Er. Did you not think that perhaps you'd chirped her up to where she felt capable of striking while the iron was hot in 'servicing' her friends?
Maybe she's not sick per se. Maybe she's suffering the effects of said new lessons and revelations that you/the relationship represent and it's knackering her out as well as making her *feel* poorly a lot?
I think her mum and sister's question was highly tactless and insensitive, given events and in-the-moment circumstances. Maybe that's the reason she didn't want to give them the full and actual story - because they're boundary encroachers and might have started pressuring her to hurry up and get on with things? Depends... Did you confront her over it and see her reassure you?
There again, is it (given her deeper thus slower plus hands-on grieving style) unreasonable to say you're both sucking and seeing? I can't comment on that, really, because I don't know (cough!) yet what exactly happened back then in blow-by-blow account, do I. But look at it this way: what was wrong with 'Yes, friends'? She avoided the concept of just friends and changed it to, in effect, 'taking it slowly and cautiously'. So - NO. NOT demotion to friends would seem the logical conclusion. Correct?
When did your own ex-relationship end, and how did it, and what provided the excuse to end it? And who ended it - her or you? Sorry, I should say, who was first to point to the corpse already rigor-mortis-ing on the floor?
"she wrote me that she had a great time and sad it lasted not so long."
Good, encouraging action. But, yes, her moods do seem up-and-down.
However - the Ace card:
"It seems that she's still intrested of coming with me, sent me some links of new appartments."
Actions! (Positive) Case Closed.
How the hell are you going to be Mr Emotionally Capable and In-Charge in order to inspire her with anxiety-countering, 'borrowed' confidence if you yourself are apt to climb the walls every time she so much as farts, HMMM???
"how not now but later it's ok?"
Seriously? I'll give you a clue: starts with E and ends with XAMS. lol They'll be over by then, presumably?
right now, are you.
Have you ever tried Chamomile Tea or Valarian or Omega 3 EPA/DHA pure fish oil capsules?
I can detect how you're triggering her now. You have all these secret, serious doubts and reservations that you keep to your "manly" self (me Tarzan, me not incapable handling upset, hm!, me shrug problems off, unaffected, hm!) and *think* you've put a firm enough lid on, but... they leak out in your vibe, demeanour, gestures, linguistics...bloody everything. All the things women are usually sensitive to and 'hoover' up (and she's currently extra-sensitive through being in human meerkat mode). Don't think me crazy (well, do, but not about this) but it COULD be that those wobbles of hers aren't even hers, but [dan-dan-daaan!] yours. Or any percentage of them. What do you think about THAT, then?!
But, anyway, back to the reportage...
"Aah, one other thing. It seems like she wants to control my life too much, to whom i speak or go out with. Everythime i ask her out and if she has other plans, i'll say ok maybe next time and wish her beautiful day/evening. If she asks what im going to do and for example my neighbour friends(female) and my cousin wants to do something then there's a problem. If she has male friends then howcome i can't have female friends especially who i know from my childhood. Anyway like always i provide her safety not to worry, just friends, nothing will ever come between us etc."
No, she wants to control a known, potential source of danger. She worries that, being too poorly to live it up with you, you might find yourself tempted to stray.
Why does she think that, then?
PS: Female neighbour-friends?
Female cousin too, I'm betting. Correct?
"If she has male friends then howcome i can't have female friends especially who i know from my childhood."
Because you strayed or nearly strayed or her ex strayed or the big'un before him, but she knows hand-on-heart she never would even just out of principle? So she trusts that she won't but can't/won't trust you wouldn't?
I agree it smacks of 'one rule for you, another for her entirely', though. What about, rather than temporarily cutting said friends out, you save your reassuring breath and simply 'mark' them as benign by, say, inviting her along once in a while and/or, whenever you're with them, texting and phoning her (to show her that these meetings aren't 'demanding' hence are indeed as easy as mere platonic friendships)? That way she'll have the 50% soothing from the behaviour to go with the other 50% from your verbal soothing = 100% reassurance = no more issue with at least those particular friends?
Maybe it's the other way, maybe her last boyfriend, if she declined an invitation, stayed home himself, moping, meaning, that's what she's been taught a man in-love does?
I don't know, why don't you instigate a heart-to-heart conversation with her to try to find out? Why are you so loath to grab the bull by the horns when a positive, productive thing to do?
"when something doesn't feel right to her, she's like ok fine, what ever, bye, have fun etc"
The words are, snooty, dismissive and putting on a self-protective uncaring act. Well, one reason could be that, thanks to your latest endeavours, her confidence has been ressurrected from the dead but, having been asleep for so long, it's going overboard for a while? Try not to be bothered, grit your teeth, and see if it/she settles down again once she's had her 'power party' binge. That's not to say you accept any disrespect, but other than that, pretend not to have noticed.
Here's an idea: in this specific emotional regard, try to pretend she's a traumatised toddler whom, one disapproving look or impatient muttering, is liable to burst into tears. Spell everything out, treat her with kid gloves, overlook/rise above...all of that. It'll be great Dad practise for the future. *OR* you can grab said bull horns and at the time say, 'Aw, don't be like that?' etc.?
...unless - did you mean, sounds GENUINELY chilled about it one minute but then distinctly unchilled the next?
There again, could be a mixture of both: sometimes genuine, sometimes an act.
"I kindly asked that can we please communicate like adults and not talk negatively like that. We want to get things better, not worse."
THAT'S more like it! And, yes, you *will* 'see'. It's called, Give them enough rope to hang themselves (or not). But meanwhile, you'd be surprised how reassuring that statement would be to her. After all, if you weren't genuinely in it for the long haul then what would YOU care how she responds?
So let's now watch that particular space.
"maybe cus of exams"
Or maybe because you're a Londoner?
I think you are pushing too much. For this particular situation/person, yes. Otherwise, under ordinary circs - no. I think your hands are typically a bit big and clumsy for precision fune-tuning of those Urr to Ahh dials. Only a bit though, because in actual fact, nothing of what you reported sounded very negative compared to how things were. Slow progress but progress nonetheless.
When will the exams be over and done with? In fact, when do they begin?
"When we are together, i fondle her hair, arms and when she was sick she liked it. Kissing forehead and not wanting anything for return, just to show her how i feel etc."
Ahh. That's nice. Now't so sexy as a man with fathering capabilities. We just don't want you fathering her on a permanent basis, eh. But time will tell, it always does.
I think, Woozy, you're too used to being master of your own destiny, including rate and pace. Well...that was then. Now you're in a team where one of you can't match your giant stride. Well - littlest legs win, I'm afraid. Until they grow (regrow) longer.
"I think there's some progress, since she takes me to her family again."
Definitely (when you put it with the other evidence, I mean).
Someone did a big number on her, though, didn't they. Tell me all you know about her ex? And tell me what you did/nearly did/looked and sounded like you did/could/might as made her panic and dive for cover under the sofa, thinking you were another "him"?
"and only expresses her emotions due text not by act."
Eh? How does that gel with her ACT of still taking you on visits to her family like her steady or husband?
That's not sound judgement talking, is it. It's FEARS. Hence is nonsense/doesn't resemble reality of events. Or did you mean something else by 'act'?
As for this:
"Except once 2 days ago in hotel, when i woke up, she was already looking at me and had a long and loving hug that felt perfect."
There you go. She's up-and-down, like we agree. And here's the product: "Whatever" -v- secret-into-open gooey looks and hug.
What had you done and said in the run-up to that moment...what produced that?
PS: I have to [cringe] correct your Engrish a little: it's 'we did go', not 'did went'. [sor-reeeeee!...can't help it, kick me later.] But I'll let you off because you're understandably distracted at the mo.
"Maybe she's not sick per se. Maybe she's suffering the effects of said new lessons and revelations that you/the relationship represent and it's knackering her out as well as making her *feel* poorly a lot?" - She had a fever and her words were, that she can't deal with anyone on that time, i was "exception" but clearly had room for others next day.
I didn't confront her with "hanging" talk, i thought i'll better let it go and concentrate on positive notes.
"When did your own ex-relationship end, and how did it, and what provided the excuse to end it? And who ended it - her or you? Sorry, I should say, who was first to point to the corpse already rigor-mortis-ing on the floor?"
My ex-relationship ended 2 years before i met her. I ended that relationship cus she was cheating on me(i cought her). Recovered from it and life went on.
Tomorrow is her last exam. Since i have had a very busy month and her exams, our communication is kinda poor. We finaly got to agreement that after school, she starts to show her actions(not only words) towards me also. Wanyway during this month we met only once for couple hours. Even tho i have had insane from morning to night working hours, i have tried to make time for her, but she's to "occupied". Yeah i understand, it takes a lot of energy and time to study but not even 5min for me? Anyway, during that time when i wanted to meet she went to her sisters place on other island for whole weekend, other time to city etc. If i asked howcome you didin't want to spend time with me, she got angry. (moods again) Told me that i was working and she had change to get out of this island. (even tho i told her, only thing is to ask me and i will find time for her). And other trip she was afraid to ask me if i can drive her since i was at work again, so she asked again friend to drive. My point of view - these are excuses, clearly she wanted to go with him. But do tell me if im wrong. I guess maybe that's why it's not enough for me from her words. If she wants us, she'll find time for us, simple as that.
Yesteday i asked if she has plans, or wants to meet, well she was studying and don't have time for anyone. I told her with whom i go out and ofc that dude saw me driving pass(on way to her) him and told her i had a girl next to me in car. (even tho she knew with whom i was out, made a problem. That was wierd). And if i asked her hows the studying going, answer was she went out with him. - So time for him but not me. Where's the logic?
"PS: Female neighbour-friends?
Female cousin too, I'm betting. Correct?" - yeah neighbours friends from childhood and male cousin.
She does act crazy jealous when i'm with female friends. Even if i am with them, i do text her, try to make her feel safe or whatever necessary. She has her own friends and i have mine, i have asked to join us but she's not interested(only when everything was ok between us, she was with us)
Most of my friends have told me to stop this relationship, cus they don't see future in it and "i" cant do everything alone. (all the meetings and stuff) - i have told them that even tho it's hard as hell i haven't given up and i'm waiting till end of school to see her actions as promised.
Due lot of work i thing moving out of island will happen end of this month. ( today she sent links to appartment again), that's a start. Told her that i want to get "closer" to each other before moving. So she agreed to spend time after school is over. We'll see.
"I think, Woozy, you're too used to being master of your own destiny, including rate and pace. Well...that was then. Now you're in a team where one of you can't match your giant stride. Well - littlest legs win, I'm afraid. Until they grow (regrow) longer."
I agree. I'm too independent but i have to correct you, i always have time and will to do everything for my "other half of hearth" - her.
That's the latest review - bit too distant but manageable. Waiting for next week, end of school and our time together and finishing work etc.
Feel free to correct me. English isn't my native language
Hope this helped
For me usually there haven't been jealousy problems before, until now, where she's different and i'm dealing with it day to day. Her in other hand has been jealous for entire relationship. Even tho i never made her feel, that she might lose me due another. But you're right if she wants it, it's gonna work it through.
I have thought about the spark, which might be gone a bit, due to all negative conversations etc, but not totaly. Long distance can do that. Since school is now finished and graduation is tomorrow, i'm looking forward for her "time for me" as promised. But yeah, i'm still positive and we'll see how next ~2 weeks are going to play out, before moving.
Thank you for those kind and positive words!
I'm afraid I'm removing her sending of apartment links from the For The Relationship evidence table because her other actions - or lack of them - and direct hypocrisies (seeing her new best male friend instead of you but treating your having your female friend in the car as crime enough TO EVEN MENTION (actions)) are making a mockery of that 'reassurer' now. Either you went and told her you found that reassuring or your reactions said it for you and she's now using it as a duping/keep you warm 'n waiting tool.
PS: GTO's right. And I loved that analogy!
She went to his graduation also at city and got tagged on his pic together and one of her and his friend mentioned how much she likes to see them together. Well that's disturbing tho.
Anywho, seems like now her time with him and friends are even more occupied. Goes out about lunch time and gets home around 6 in morning. So even as she promised, nothing changed. I have a wierd feeling about it and don't know if i should put an end to it, since it has been going on
like forever. If she'd want to get things better then she'd show it and wouldn't make me feel needed only when theres bills or he's at work? Words are just words if there's no actions behind them. I surely don't trust her anymore cus of that kind of behavior and all the late out goings etc. Today i asked what is she doing, said nothing and if i asked 5min later can meet cus i need my laptop got an answer she already left the appartment and has no idea when going back. She says nothing is changed between us but those actions are making very-very hard to trust her.
I agree, but you can't really take much notice of what goes on on Facebook as if it's empirical evidence. It encourages playground thinking and behaviours, including conspiring and contriving in twosomes or little groups in order to create 'impressions' for the purposes of manipulation or counter-manipulation (of gfs and bfs, usually). Psychological Warfare.
Example: I was once, when single, asked (begged) by a male friend if I'd pose as his potential new lover by opening a Facebook (Fakebook) account, posting flirtatious-looking pics and bantering openly with him. So that his on-off squeeze (at that point, newly off again for the Nth time) would be 'shocked' into ceasing taking him for-granted and messing him around. I said his lover should fail to take him for-granted *without* the aid of any surreptitiously-administered artificial additives like jealousy being vigorously whisked-in by his hand... or else, long-term he'd (even by the time he were a little ol' man with barely the energy to fart) have to ensure to on-off always feature potential threats until his dying day, which would rapidly wear very thin (assuming he'd always have a willing stream of on-call, single cooperatives in the first place, that is!) until it kicked all the love out of him. Good grief, life's too short, why do that when you could just keep dating for the real McCoy as costs far less to 'run' and 'gain performance from'? That's like buying a Veyron, taking out the engine and installing pedals like on The Flintstones! Good grief.
Whether a man or woman, everyone (sane) wants someone who keeps us so well fed and watered (as we do unto them) that we have neither the time NOR URGE for any other extra-curricular (non-familial) females/males. WE JUST AREN'T INTERESTED AND CAN'T BE ARSED (or that's how we explain it). It's not laziness, though. Your incoming 'other gender' needs are getting so panoramically fed already that it'd be akin to being expected to want to eat two Christmas Dinners back-to-back. After all, it's no good being "best friends" if the chemistry's weak, yet neither any good finding them a huge turn-on if aside from it you secretly despise and lack respect for the stupid beeping b*tch/b***tard, is it. It's two people that are best friends BUT/AND ADDITIONALLY ON TOP HAVE SEXUAL CHEMISTRY AND USE IT.
So.... bestest-ever opposite-gendered friends that also provide your entire romantic- and sex-life.... What can't they do/provide/stimulate that allegedly your merely secondary/non-best, platonic friends can?
ERROR, DOES NOT COMPUTE.
(See what nonsense it is when you bother to boil it down?)
Who failed to phase out their opposite gendered friends first - her or you? In other words, who reached for that sword-come-shield first as made the other reach for theirs?
It is simply a non-verbal, repeat statement that says, 'I need other externally-sourced supplies of femininity/masculinity because you're failing to provide them properly or provide the complete range'. I'm not talking about other, TAKEN (and happily so), opposite-gendered friends. Without the sexual attraction or potential for such, friends is precisely and exclusively what they are...that's different, that's about having a healthy yardstick and recalibrator and source of non-routine mental stimulation. Just single/available ones....even very SLIGHT "could bes" or mere bedroom fantasy fodder material, no matter how remote the actual likelihood of becoming an item. Those ones are not good for a relationship. And anyway - you're a couple so you the couple have a best friend that's a couple (sense?). In the event of any need for a quick breather, you would automatically tend to want to pair off with the same-gendered unit each. So THAT you can do said comparisons ("...Hehe, makes me laugh cos whenever I do this/that s/he always says this/that and does that/this / Yeah, mine too!" = good, we're both still normal and functional and so are our mates).
I know there's a myth out there about needing other men/women in the form of friends/acquaintances. But no-one's going to tell me that if one (at that point healthy, chemically- and functionally-compatible) couple were permanently shipwrecked, just the two of them, Amen, on some desert island, that their welfares thus survival instincts would inexorably wither and die (bodily suicide) or cause either or both of them to go insane (mental and spiritual suicide) with the so-called deprivation. Pfff, what a load of crap. Ask Chaka Khan because she obviously knew it ("I'm every woman, it's all in me"). What an wholly illogical cover story for, I'M TOO LOATH/SCARED TO JUMP IN PROPERLY AND POSSIBLY-MAYBE-ONE-DAY FIND MYSELF DUMPED BUT WITH NONE OF MY OLD FRIENDS AROUND ANY MORE TO CATCH ME AND TOO 'ON THE FLOOR' TO MAKE NEW ONES, MEW-MEW.  That's never what ends up happening in reality because, come that event, you tend to 'just magically' (for reasons I lack time to go into) mutually attract and (naturally-circumstantially) super-quickly bond with OTHER heartbrokens that, equally magically, tend to conveniently 'walk into your room' or you into theirs at that precise, perfect moment, and  it's the NOT jumping-in properly-fully that causes eventual death to relationships in the first place.
You risk your welfare every time you cross the bleedin' road or climb in your car or walk downstairs from upstairs, etcetera. That's life: one risk after another. In every arena, including the romantic one. Being alive and keeping busy, rather than sitting catatonic-like in a chair from dawn to dusk, is what places one at risk of death. IOW, living and dying are an item, two sides of the single-coin process. Capiche? Your relationship lived a life and death. You're now in the afterlife process towards rebirth (reincarnation).
(You'll have to think about that for a while to get your head around it.)
But having Could Bees (as I actually call them...since they tend to keep very busy and refuse to buzz off regardless of any swatting attempts) is just plain slow-suicide, relationship-wise, because the *fact* of her/them alone is a non-verbal THREAT. And if you're being continually threatened, you can't ever relax or stabilize or BE STABLE. People who've 'just seen a ghost' and are mostly always midway climbing the walls or whom slap your face out of nowhere for (irrational) fear you're always inches from slapping theirs and the associative need to rush to save face, don't TEND to be all that great to cuddle up to or have a fun chat with or try to rub along great with, I have to say, LOL. Nope...
We know that. So if we're properly-fully-operational ourselves, we don't tend to say, 'Mm!... everything's great and ticking like clockwork, I now feel ready for a relationship...From where shall I fish? I know! The Emotional Hospital - preferably Intensive Care (yyyyeah, baby)!'. BUT YOU DO IF YOU'RE ALREADY AN IN-PATIENT IN THE SAME HOSPITAL YOURSELF. EH.
That's your girlfriend, that is. You know - the one head-to-toe in bandages and weeping pus? Touchy...moody....hypersentitive...constantly skittish and over-ready to defend... too self-concerned/consumed to notice her own acts of gross hypocrisy (you can't have them but I can)... taking attempts to improve the relationship via discussion as CRITICISM and exacting and placing revenge-come-control mechanisms in response. She is DETERMINED to have everything in place for "getting you" just before you get her. To beat you to the rejections post.
After all, why is she asking her friends to help her make you feel so threatened as if on a knife-edge to losing her?...that your relationship is so tenous as to be halfway out the door already?
Let me repeat that: Why is your girlfriend (because she's never said she's not any more, despite it's so easily done) getting her "friends" to help make you *feel* as if you're newly under more real threat of permanent loss of your relationship and her as a person in your life than ever before? And to another man (ego injury). And why at this particular point in time? And more specifically - why after you've only just basically (via your talk and request) shown her your happy 'I'm in this for the long haul' cards? Why didn't that words + action package reassure her and dispel the presumed fearsome obstruction to her joining you in your arms once more, relieved and more raring to go than ever?
Or did it and this isn't about her insecurity but about manufacturing and nurturing yours SO THAT her own stays at bay?
Does she feel safer when you're the one climbing the walls?...hence goes "BOO!" when you're already agitated and alarmed?
So why, if she can't possibly (courtesy of your talk) be feeling insecure about your relationship/your intentions being still genuine and serious, is she being - presumably unnecessarily and without-provocation (au contraire!) - MENTALLY CRUEL AND SADISTIC TO YOU RIGHT NOW?
"If i asked howcome you didin't want to spend time with me, she got angry. (moods again)"
That's not 'moods'. Those happen inside, regardless of what's happening on the outside or are inappropriately overblown compared to what the 'cause' should ordinarily warrant. That was her REACTION (which, sustained, becomes response). She didn't like the question, disliked being called to account in a way that left no room for avoiding an answer or a truthful one. So she simply 'sent you (and your query) away' with HOSTILITY that, to you, would have felt scarily threatening in an emotional sense (due to its chasmic departure from her loving behaviour) and would have cowed you nicely into silence/submission. You asked a simple, reasonable question you had a right to know and which was an highly positive one to make, thus should have, you'd have thought, been welcomed with open arms, whereas her response was to threaten you/the relationship.
You reassured and pacified her in question format and got whacked for it.
"Que?". Is this Opposites Day?
Your question was valid, logical, rightful, perfectly understandable given the circumstances and events. And necessary. The only healthy, natural response of a healthy, natural male. Why, then, was it seemingly so hard to even want to or even just be willing to answer? Did you ask her what the square root of Pie was or to explain String Theory in Cantonese? Nay. You simply said you wanted to know why the evidence showed she didn't want to spend time with you (ahead of anyone else...because you're her heroin to their nicotine) whenever she got the now-rare opportunity whereas one of the defining characteristics of a romantic relationship is that you want to spend ALL your time with them (give the freedom and opportunities)! Why 'shut-up immediately or the puppy gets it' to such a rightful, perfectly legitimate, healthy, relationship-protective and -conducive, not to mention proactive, question!?
Inappropriate Affect Alert.
Sorry to be repetitive but I can tell you haven't considered the enormity or deeper meaning (the full horror, in other words) of her choice of response. And that means you're too used to it to be shocked any more. Doesn't it.
Or does it mean you whinged and nagged as you accused?
Which? I wouldn't have thought you'd DARE be so negative in the current climate so...
People who are post-traumatic (bad relationship leading to horrid break-up) can for a while behave exactly like they've any of the Cluster B mental illnesses - Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Sociopath), Antisocial Personality Disorder (Psychopath), Borderline Personality Disorder (either or neither, depends on whether you were a nice person to begin with), Bi-Polar (standard or rapid-cycling...usually the latter), or Schizoid Personality Disordered (harmless but more interested in their rich inner lives than what's going on in the real world, finding relationships too distressing). Those that are normally sane and healthy come down again, inevitably, at whatever their personal rate is (2-10 years) or where supreme, effective, counter-traumatic data comes in. Those that aren't, don't. They tend year on year to get *worse*.
"According to DSM-5, a personality disorder can be diagnosed if there are significant impairments in self and interpersonal functioning together with one or more pathological personality traits. In addition, these features must be (1) relatively stable across time and consistent across situations, (2) not better understood as normative for the individual’s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment, and (3) not solely due to the direct effects of a substance or general medical condition." I'll add, nor appropriate in size and/or nature to the incoming causal stimulus.
And then we newly have the fact of her breaking a HUMONGOUS promise to, basically, TREAT YOU MORE LIKE THE BOYFRIEND SHE KEEPS CLAIMING YOU STILL ARE.
"Blah-blah-blah". False words and sentiments.
But, I repeat: that friend of his's comment about liking seeing them together couldn't have been more hammed-up and over-obvious if he'd tried. So it's a contrivance and ruse. She's liking you insecure and unstable thus despite presented with an opportunity to reassure and stablize - TO RECIPROCATE - chose instead to fail to reciprocate whilst encouraging as well as increasing its continuance.
Dealbreaker. How nice of her to have finally produced one. You can't say someone's your girlfriend if you never see her and she blocks or evades any fortuitous or newly instated opportunities, can you.
Dump the dud (and her bills). I don't trust her any more, either. That was the life-saving promise she broke, which means a symptom too vast, too inarguable, TOO EMPIRICAL, and destructive. So she's basically passively let you/the relationship die. Without making it obvious enough for you in your worked-on state to have the 100% confidence to dare take as 'monumental' a decision as all that. She's seeing how far she can push her luck before you cancel the direct debit as well as her long-term open option of a route to return (if ever need be).
A healthy, relationship-capable woman wouldn't behave like that under these same circumstances.
Sorry, Woozy. But at least you found out in-time, and far quicker than if you'd simply continued to sit there scratching your head.
PS: Warning: if she senses you're about to take definite, self-respecting action she may well suddenly be all over you like a rash like in the 'old days'. For as long as it takes to re-hook you so's you'll sit and wait, warm on the side, all over again. Don't bite. Ignore. And grieve (I'll help). And thereby go through the process of preparing for your next, automatically far superior relationship or life interest/vocation-then-relationship.
Your lovely lady's waiting somewhere (just chucked her own user, I shouldn't wonder). Don't let this current, silly, unhealthy woman spoil that too by making you 'miss the bus' purely to suit her own selfish convenience and self-centred agenda, okay?
"Who failed to phase out their opposite gendered friends first - her or you? In other words, who reached for that sword-come-shield first as made the other reach for theirs?" - When the whole fight started, she was the one who chose to be with her friend/s when i came back first time from abroad, which was wierd for me, cus i would never go out same evening when my love comes from other country.
I appreciate everything you said and explaned and you're right.
Yesterday we had a long conversation. Like you said at the beginning: "Why is your girlfriend (because she's never said she's not any more, despite it's so easily done)" - She again confirmed that she has nothing with anyone and if she wanted she already had something.
Anyway since i got tired of that arguing, fighting etc. i took time to be myself, to be with my friends and enjoy life and stopped communication with her. So yesterday he and she saw my car in shop parking lot and after in evening she started again. What am i doing, did i drove all the way there just to go to shop? With someone or alone, anyway lots of questions. (30km, that was a awkward question, since there's a lot bigger shop and wanted certain things lol)
And then all the drama started. Again "I" don't care about her well being at all. How she manages, does she have food etc. - As i told her million times, let's meet and i get much better overview of your life, not few words in internet and some meetings in month. Nonsence. Cus that isn't a relationship. Ofc she repeatedly accused me of not caring etc.- how or what should i do, i mean only thing i asked was to meet and get bloody things better. Then i couldn't take it anymore and said politely, if you're friends are more important then this "relationship" i'll come and take my belongings, change bill adress and you don't have to listen to me "whine" (like she put it) about meeting me. Ofc then she got really upset, fine go fu** yourself and i'll stay in this island with nothing, but you do enjoy your life in city with someone, i won't bother you ever again. Well i thought ok, since everyting is so broken and i can't mend things back together by myself i said to her, I hope you understand someday, what i have done for you, how long i have been chaseing you and how badly wanted to get things better. Well then ofc again and again, i'm accused of not caring. And then her "logic" about meeting me finaly came out. Like she said, i quote: "Whenever you accuse me of choosing friends over you or we have a fight i don't want to meet." - I really tryed to understand but, wtf? I explaned to her, how should we get things better without communication, ignoration, and without meeting. I'm not and won't going to be 5th wheel. - When ever i want to meet and she's with others should i smile and be happy in her's prospect? Pff. Told her that this is a dead circle. I ask to meet - she gets angry and back in same track.
Asked what should be the compromise and answer ofc don't pick on me. I don't know if i should laugh or be mad. Tried to explain that she can't accuse only me, that's her doing aswell. I'm really out of words what to say to her. She's clean from everything but im the bad one who hurts her in every possible way. -.-
Anyway since i got a fever yesterday evening i got tired and sleepy so i ended that converastion with her.
Today morning she asked, how and what am i doing? - Well since i was looking apartments i told her that i found one what "I AM" planing to go and look when better. And ofc like nothing ever happened - i also would like to come and see.
Is this a freaking game for her or i don't know. I'm kinda lost and confused, if i should dump her or give another change since she wants to come with me.. Or is it that phrase where you talked about warning at the end?
Just bear with a bit longer. Should only be one or two at the very most weeks (got to be!) until the house is ready for releasing onto the market.
"cus i would never go out same evening when my love comes from other country."
Me neither. But I just wanted to keep my powder dry and do some more checking before I said what I've just said. I don't like saying anything unless I'm near-as-damnit sure because...well,...this is your life, isn't it, not a game.
I mean - look: "With someone or alone, anyway lots of questions"
What POSSIBLE basis has she - PARTICULARLY after your line of questioning having revealed and confirmed, in-one, your healthy relationship intentions - for harbouring suspicions that you're two-timing her? Answer: NONE! That was the whole side-point of your 'revelation', wasn't it - to GET REAL. It *must* be projection on her part. "I'm doing it and it ain't difficult so - why wouldn't he!", must be the thinking. Either that or she's Avoidant Personality Disordered (includes paranoia). Whatever. No basis, quite the opposite = the definition of paranoia.
I mean - why the HELL would you buy her food as if you and she were tight steadies, given her behaviour, now including on Fakebook? (Nonesense is right - someone Call Matron!)
She's either a permanent chocolate teapot or temporarily so by having been unready after her last relationship to jump into a new one. So it's either Wrong Person, Right Place, Wrong Time or Right Person, Right Place, Wrong Time. But it's got to be all 3 or you're just wasting (or making use of?) time.
"i mean only thing i asked was to meet and get bloody things better. "
Good. About time you got angry. I expect you've got a whole suitcase-ful waiting, eh.
And - how dare you 'whine' (care).
"And then her "logic" about meeting me finaly came out. Like she said, i quote: "Whenever you accuse me of choosing friends over you or we have a fight i don't want to meet.""
Oh, did she. HOW CONVENIENT. So let's get this straight: she CAUSES, as in under-the-table provokes a fight...and that means she can't see you because you're upset...which is (eh?) your fault.
Spinning their crime round to be your crime against them. Is how the psychiatric industry puts it about (certain, not nice) Borderlines and Narcissists. (I've met some nice, well-meaning ones, you know. Don't blame the illness or condition is what I say.)
It's too effed-up and back-to-front, isn't it. Life's too short.
"I don't know if i should laugh or be mad. "
Both. Your left/logical brain hemisphere does the laughing while your right/emotional sobs into its hankie for What Might (Otherwise) Have Been / So Near Yet So Far. And I'm not surprised you got a temperature. This was no normal relationship and therefore it's no normal break-up or aftermath.
"Is this a freaking game for her or i don't know. I'm kinda lost and confused, if i should dump her or give another change since she wants to come with me.. Or is it that phrase where you talked about warning at the end?"
Dump. Absolutely, definitely, 100 percent-ly. She can always get real (IF she's got it in her) and ask for a talk and reconciliation, can't she. You? You've done enough (yours AND her share!). You must be KNACKERED by now?!
Does that about sum things up for you?
Life is constantly changing for her. She is at a age where she will keep meeting newer people. She will keep wanting to experience everything. But this has very little meaning for you. She is most welcomed to enjoy those things in life, but without you being a part of it. Your money and time is very valuable. As i had told you this earlier too, you need to make all of this effort worth it. And no where does it look like that you are enjoying being in a relationship with her. Its more than 6 months today that you are in this dilemma. Which is not a healthy thing.
We all get used to a certain treatment in life and this downfall isn't something you need to witness any longer. She may have her set of cunning intentions of being with you but u are far more stronger to be broken down. I like the fact that you've stood up to her when it was needed. But its important that you embrace this new phase of your life by taking the necessary steps. She is not going to stop with her mind games ever. You have detailed every moment of you'll being together on this forum and no where does it seem promising that you should keep things going on with her.
A problem is meant to be temporary. You make mends and again set to off to be happier. But in your case, it has just been stagnant or degraded further. So i agree to soulmate's advice that you need to make this decision and set her away from yourself. No amount of bullshit from her is going to convince you to hang on with her. Your time is extremely valuable. Don't waste on such someone who has intentions on just playing around with your mind. All of this trauma also effects our friends and family too. We tend to get edgy, agitated and sad because of these things. And you will not even know that all of these important people would have drifted far away from you, while you were busy playing her mind games. Don't give her the opportunity get you all worked up. Give her the dose she deserves and move on. You are doing very well in terms of work and other things and thats a fantastic thing.
Hope things work out for the best
Are you there?! (...there!...there!...)
I'm not surprised your resolve weakened. You're bound to be vulnerable at the mo. and need to bear that in mind.
Well, look, the important thing is not to panic. It takes seven attempts on average for a healthy host to detach and skedaddle from a parasite for good. Or considerably less if you're a particularly stubborn, strong-willed person (which I suspect you are). Is that attempt number 2 or were there other near-break-ups I don't know about?
Yes, it's possible for something like that to make a person really step up. But it can also give a parasite a route back 'in'.
And let's be brutally honest: neither of you missed the other. Had you, one of you would have picked up the phone. And considering the way she'd been treating you, that person should have been her. Yet wasn't. Until now that you're metaphorically on the floor.
Don't beat yourself up about it, doing so would be futile and just make everything worse, anyway. ...Especially as...
...Re stepping up: Depends, on whether, having realised she's a user, you've decided to use her (as a prop), as in, fair's fair?...but meanwhile leaving your mind open a chink in giving her the royal opportunity to change that opinion of yours BY not only stepping up but STAYING stepped up? You could be, you know? It could be your survival instinct making you take whatever hand is proffered because "a" hand is better than no hand and anyway, you believe that with eyes now wide open, you can keep her close enough for comfort yet not close enough to become her heart slave?
Question: do you think if you had someone to talk to on here whenever the mood took you rather than weekly or fortnightly (as in, if I managed to round up a support gang on here), you might be able to abstain from the (we have cause to suspect) Salmonella-riddled cream cake?
It's really important when trying to break free that you have what's called a Constant, you see. And obviously I can't, lately.
Alternatively or additionally - do you have anyone stellar and stable like that in RL?
And do you want to talk about your bro?
Discussion closed - why not create your own thread?