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Relationship advice I have four major issues in my life: life, wife, job and its also about a girl. Here it goes:

life: I feel like i am going through mid life crisis or something. I feel like i have generally lost interest in things that i used to like and i do not feel motivate about most things. I want to be happy but i don't feel like doing things that used i used to like doing. I used to be a very passionate and determined person but and i miss that passion and determination badly.

wife: I am 32 year old married guy. I have realized that I married my wife only out of guilt and I am not happy with her. I married her coz I did not want to regret in future that I broke a very nice person’s heart. But now I regret that decision anyway and I do not feel about her like I want to feel about my life partner. It troubles me that I don't get excited about her and about the things that make her happy. There is nothing unbearably wrong with my marriage. But with everyday passing i feel like life is too short to spend in a relationship where i am not happy. I want the best for me and for my her too. I dont want to look back decades from now and think what if? I think at some point I am going to have an honest talk with her and explain her how I feel. But since I am not in a very good place in life I want to sort everything else before I do this so that I know for sure that none of the other issues in my life are not influencing me to think this way.

job: Once I had a successful and lucrative career but I gave all that up to pursue my own goals. Everything I touched after quitting my job pretty much turned to dust. I am a smart and capable person but I have been experiencing lack of interest and motivation. Then I moved to the US with my wife as her company sent her here. I have realized that at present to have a job is in my best interest and I have been trying to get a job for almost a year now. Only now I feel like I have some hope in this area and I feel like I have some solid leads. But this too has also been a very frustrating ordeal.

Its about a girl: This is currently troubling me the most. I met a girl who I think is way out of my league. But when we met she was totally into me and made it very obvious that she wants to be with me, but she only wanted to have fun. I can’t explain how good it felt to be wanted by her especially given that I thought my life isn’t going so well. However, since I am married I couldn't be with her. Since we hung out together a lot we became friends. Now, I am not sure if I have fallen for her or I just miss that ecstatic feeling of being wanted by someone I am attracted to. I constantly miss her when I am not with her and I feel really sad when with her for the fact that we might never be together and that show will not want me again. She on the other hand I think has moved on or doesn’t see me that way anymore. I constantly feel like this is the best thing that could have happened to me and that it will never happen now. This frustrates me and I end up lashing out on her or end up saying or doing something really stupid and hurting her in the process. She tells me that I lash out at her on purpose and that it’s my feeling and thus my shit to sort. Which, pissed me off because I don’t think I lash out on her on purpose and I feel like she has a little bit of responsibility in this as she was interest in me at first. Because of this friction we have come close to not being friends anymore twice now. First time we had an argument and she said she doesn’t remember a day in last couple of months when it was not serious coz of me. And I told her that I don’t want to spoil any of her days anymore and I walked away thinking that it is over and I started moving on.

While I was on a hiatus from her for the first time and it being a new year and all I did some soul searching and I decided to take control of my life. I decided that I am going to resolve my issues in the following order job, life and wife. I used to be person who always asked permission so I don’t have ask for forgiveness, so I don’t have regrets in life. Now that I realize I regret the same thing just as much I will ask forgiveness and not permission.

She reached out to me a couple of days later and towards the end of 2016. She assumed responsibility and explained that she is trying to respect my feelings and she knows me as a person now and wants me in her life. But because now she knows me a lot better as a friend she doesn’t want to screw up my life. And asked if we can be friends again and we deiced to start 2017 with a clean slate. Given my new outlook on life and the fact that I wanted a positive change I thought I could handle it.

A couple of days back I met her and had one of the best days together in a long long time. But at night when we both were drunk I had a total meltdown. She was rightly scared and angry and said that this BS needs to stop. Next day I told her that we should not see each other anymore. The way I look at it is that on one of the best days I had with her I ended up blowing up. And it’s not like I intended for it it just happened. I am not proud of how my feeling came out but they did come out and it can’t be more obvious that I am not happy just being friends. I feel scared and helpless and I keep making the same mistake over and over again.

At first she said she respects my choice but then she convinced me that we should stay friends. I was supposed to help her with something and that she is disappointed` that I am bailing on her. She says she is shutting the door on possibility of more than friends for now for my own good and that she really wants me in her life but as a friend and that is the highest compliment she gives anyone in her life. She said she understand why I had a meltdown and forgives me. I find her to be a sincere person and I think she trying to be a good friend. I do not want do anything again that will hurt her and I do not want to bail on her either but the fact remains that my issues and feeling are not going to magically get resolved overnight and I am obviously not very good at controlling them. We have again agreed to stay friends. But I am not sure how to survive this. I don’t know what this is midlife crisis or what but this is all very depressing. Given that everything else is not going so well and I literally do not have the person with whom I would like to talk this out (since my best friend died a couple of years back) I feel very lonely in all this. So I though I will put all this out in the open and may be a stranger will help me see what I am not able to see.

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I think you feel stuck in a rut, which we all do at times. However relationships change over time and lose their spark. You have to work harder to keep it going. I'm sure your wife most likly has these feelings too.
Attention from this other woman has made you feel wanted again, which is understandable. If you were to start a relationship with her, that passion too would eventually fizzle out like you're current one. You would probably end up regretting throwing away anything you had with your wife.
I think you should try to rekindle things with your wife, I'm sure she has needs and desires too. Take some time to get to know each other again.

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Thanks TEENIEG for taking time to reply. What you say might be right.However, I have thought in this direction and I came to a different conclusion. I married my wife because i didn't want to break her heart by saying no to her and since I am from India eventually i would have had to marry a stranger any way (arrange marriage and all), so I convinced my self saying that at least if i marry her i would be marrying a friend. What i am trying to say here is that i never felt the spark in the first place. I care for her but i dont lover her. I had every opportunity to cheat on my wife with this girl, but i didn't because it is not fair to my wife. So as far as my marriage is concerned i don't think i am trying to leave her for someone else. I just feel like i have started regretting my decision of marrying her and I don't want to resent her for it some day.

I know for sure that I have no future with the other girl either. But with her I felt something that i have never felt before. I do think that this might have accelerated the way i feel about my marriage. Before i used to suppress these thoughts and now i find myself asking myself, shouldn't I be with someone who makes me feel this way every single day and also feels this way about being with me. And its just not me, shouldn't everyone have that. It feels like we both have been trying to be that way for each other for last 5 years but we don't feel it.

As for the other girl, i know that if she has moved on and sees me only as a friend now then i cant expect her to change her feelings, after all i am facing such a tough time changing my own. I am torn between being a kid who wont play ball if he doesn't get his way and a mature person who gets over things. I also feel stupid, i feel like i am a dog chasing a car, I don't even know what i would do with it if i got one. I feel like, not even a single aspect of my life is going well and what ever new things come up in my life i somehow manage to make them a source of misery too. Beginning to think that i am the issue here and may be i should just focus on myself for a while.

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hello lost and found.

regarding your question and the "life" part of it: I think things will pick up when some of the smaller things start to improve for you and you get to see them slowly improving, it will enable you to relax more, enjoy feeling good (and or better about yourself at least; well, better than you are feeling at the moment im sure).

it sounds like you have more going on for you than you can manage to sort out at the moment to even think about considering re-discovering your passion and determination; but don't worry, it is still there! you just need to get your head in a quieter place and a few small things sorted out and you'll be back to normal again.

regarding the wife: I'm not sure you are really happy, and if you are not happy, then maybe it minght be worth taking some time out from the relationship - a short break? or maybe a bit longer to give you time to think. (that's not going to be a popular thing for me to say) but from what you've said, I'm not sure there is any other alternative at the moment other than taking a breather,(it doesn't mean you will be hostile and divorce over night) but you have come hear looking for adult advice and I am just saying what I honestly think about your position of how I am seeing it. (i might be wrong and if i am then you will know that, and you can adjust the things that will work for you in accordance with your specific situaion).

but from all you have said to us here, I think you need some time to think and get away from things. it sounds like your feelings (that you knew were there before marriage) have come back to your thoughts because you met someone you liked and it has made you question what you want and how far you have gone from what you knew inside yourself would make you happier, but maybe were somehow afraid of.

there are loads of people who make mistakes in love, marriage, who they like, reject, treat badly or know deep down they would like to be with, but its what you do with it all that is the real thing here. we've all made mistakes and had regret, but the best thing is to acknowledge it, if you've hurt someone I believe its always best to apologize.

ok, so you married out of some personal fear or regret or because someone was nice and you maybe thought things might change or be calmer or more in control than actually happened the longer it went on, however it soundls like you have learned in a tough way that if it isn't love and there is no spark there then sooner or later it probably isn't going to be strong enough to keep you happy; that's sad; but what might be sadder in this situation is if you were to stay in something that you knew (and I mean really knew or feared) wasn't making you happy the way LOVE should.

you have mentioned the expectations of your cultural upbringing, I don't know the pressures but I can imagine they are tough if you don't feel you fully want everything that is expected from your parents or cultural peers; but I cant think that everyone with an indian background or from a different race religion be they jewish, catholic, wanting to marry another from another country /from a forbidden neighbourhood, gender or whatever has not lived a happy life or wanted to fight or had to fight to keep a sense of happiness for theier hearts

on the other side of it...do you think "every single Asian male or female is happily married out there" (arranged marriage or religious belief or not)? or may there be some NOW single, some who had to get away from the expectations literally; but are now strong and more comfortable people out there?

are there jewish men that have gone on to date or marry non jewish women? are there people that have married for decades with children set up a home but but decided to leave long term situations when they wondered if they were attracted to the same gender (for some it was right for others it was tight but not with that person, it just depends on what your heart feels and whether someone else feels it too for you);

it maynot always be fair, but some people really do have to fight for so many things to be with who they love, it doesnt have to be shouting out to everyone around, but for others it will be feel natural to want to shout about it, but whatever is going on in your marriage now, if you don't feel happy and its not what makes your heart happy; then nothing in your world will change in the ways you hope unless you address it. and soon!!!!!

and the last thing I want to address in your "major issues list", is the girl!

I think that this is the person you should be addressing things with first. first because I think it is her that you really want to talk to but are struggling to. I think it might help to hear what she has to say to you too, because it sounds as though you are guessing what the situation is with her regarding her moving on, (do you know for a FACT that she is with someone else? I'm not sure if you know what she feels about what went on? do you know (or am I wrong here?) if you don't know 100% what she feels and what is happening for her and how she feels about you, then you have to talk honestly and find out everything. it will be difficult to sort other things out for you I think until you talk to this girl!

but if after you have talked and she only wants to be friends and nothing else then you will at least know and can start thinking about what you want for your future and what will make your heart happier. and maybe start again looking for a better matched person for you when you feel the time is right, if you feel it is right for you.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend, but even if things were different for you, I would still say you need to talk to this girl as soon as you can. freinds cant tell what this girl is thinking anymore than I can.

this thing sounds like it is something that has got a bit out of hand and was a bit awkward, but it is fixable (one way or another) and you will be able to move forward. once your head is a bit clearer and you've talked; it will force you to move forward with what you have talked and thought about following what she says.

the mistake you are making is not talking or being honest. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh or unfair, but that's what it sounds like. only you know if you feel you don't want to stay in your marraiage or if you'd prefer to take a break for a short time to decide what happens later on. you may both wish to try who knows, but I do actually think you are not happy sadly. this girl has made you think of your heart and how you have lost your way a bit with who you are and who you used to enjoy being.

this girl sounds open, so why not reach out. it sounds as though it has been the girl that has reached out to you before in the beginning, it takes courage to reach out to someone and it is her that has had your rejections! so maybe its time to see if you can be friends and talk, or whether you both want the things you seemed to want before. you will only find that out by talking to her.

tell her what you feel and why you've been lashing out.there is not a mid life crisis here I think, just a little painful realisation that you have just as much right to finding happiness and love as anyone; the problems are that long term relationships, marriage and being with seemingly compatible people doesn't always guarantee everyone happiness. it sounds as though you have been running from your life in different places and its beginning to catch up with you as your life moves forward and time passes, and you are questioning why you don't feel as you want to with the person you married.but I don't think that feeling is going to change, and if it were me, i wouldn't want to stay with someone till I resented them and worse hated them. you cant force who you love or are at least attracted to.

maybe it is just a rut. but from what you've said I don't think it is, I think It goes much deeper than that, but you have to be strong and be you. you don't have to tell the world your personal desires, but you have to listen to the voice inside yourself sometimes where emotions are concerned otherwise you'll feel unhappy, regret, negative angry etc...but then if you don't talk to the person who can help you heal (and you say you'd like to talk to her / the girl) then I think it would do you a lot of good to talk.

once you know what she thinks and you can talk to her, other things will get more clear for you.

good luck with this. I think you already know what you feel! so give yourself (and her) a chance and take the courage to apologise to this girl and talk to her. no one can guarantee the outcome, but you will feel better if you talk to her.

i think YOU ARE OVER THINKING some of the things you think might be for you both BECAUSE YOU HAVENT SPOKEN TO HER...YOU MUST SPEAK TO HER AND JUST STOP TRYING TO GUESS WHAT SHE MIGHT BE DOING, THINKING ABOUT YOU AND THE SITUATION.

IF YOU DONT TALK TO HER. YOU ARE GOING TO BE SOMEONE WITH 4 MAJOR ISSUES IN YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!.....(AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE ALREADY, RIGHT)

TALK TO HER, you will feel so much better for talking it through with her. I promise. :-) I bet she has things she'd like to say to you too! but finally, if once you have talked (if you meet up with her to talk, you will get a better idea if this is friendship based or more) but if she tells you again that yes, I only want friendship then you'll just have to go with that.

from the bits I understood in your post (and there were a couple of things I was not quite sure what you meant), I think the order your problems are coming in is really the girl: first as the real problem that is taking your time up thinking...other stuff will be a bit clearer once you know if she likes you in that way and can talk about what happenend with you. I think both of you will feel relief just from talking about this.

but dont forget, even if she doesn't want you, you will still have to think about your marriage and consider what is it going to make you happy in love. at the moment you don't have this girl as your lover; and though you are friends, either way even if you wernt freinds, you are NOT HAPPY in your marriage.

itd be nice to hear from you if you do find the courage to talk to this girl.

but if youd rather keep things to yourself then I hope it goes well for you whatever you decide to do or focus on next.im sure you'll be ok.

ps..if your still with me on this one (lost and found), {do you know for sure you cannot be with this other girl?}...I think you should tell her all your fears and you may surprise yourself with what she says about that, it sounds like she is someone that you think a lot of and has found a way to get through to your soul! if this is so, and she is single and does like you in the way you hope and would maybe like to try, then remember if it does become a relationship for you or looks as though it might be that way ; then there will be a way though for you both!

there are lots of people in strict relationships that have had to fight to get their hearts happier. but unless you talk and are honest about everything you wont stand a chance in the first place. ok. if you do get to see this lost and found, thank you for reading such a long reply to you . if there is anything in it that can help you at all then that will be a good thing. ;-D

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Thanks ANOTHER VIEW, i really appreciate you reply. I can see a lot of myself in this reply. In fact while i was reading it i was thinking it seems like i wrote this for someone else. So the understanding alone is a great help.

There has been an interesting development. I talked with my wife and she seems to be on the same page with me. She actually said i realized it a long time ago i was just waiting for you to talk about it. So I am relieved that we are on the same page and we will work together to figure whats best for both of us.

Now i 100% agree with you that my most important issue is the other girl. I have talked to her about this a couple of times and she only wants to be friends as of now. I haven't asked her why but she i think that just like me she herself is going through a lot of stuff, with not having a job and other life stuff. She talks to me openly about her issues and stuff going on in her life. I know right now she is under a lot of pressure and she might not want to add the pressure of being with me to it. She is not in the right place to be with me as of now. I understand and respect that so i am her friend because she can use a friend right now.

The issue is that she never realized when she crushes me with little things and doesn't want to talk about. This builds up and one fine day i blow up and i end up looking like an asshole. Sometimes I feel so stupid that I am the one getting hurt and yet I am the one who is a jerk at the end. Every time the conversation goes something like this..first I apologize for what I did..then I tell her why it happened and how I feel. then she takes it personally and becomes defensive and says u always try to show me how bad I am. Then gives me a long lecture at the end of which i come across as the bad buy and i end up apologizing again. Leaving me right where i was, felling stupid and frustrated. I don't want to do this and i also cant get over the fact that if i don't play along i ll have to let her go. A number of times when we have decided that we should no be seeing each other she would always see ya i obviously make you miserable, and i think why wouldn't u just see my perspective and stop being defensive about it. This is why i think i have no future with her. Coz she is commitment phobic and (very flighty as she puts it and i agree). I have these amazing moments with her (which i think are amazing only for me) but at the same time i feel like she also brings out the worst in me. I am trying really hard to be positive about it and be her friend but i also find it hard to deal with all this stuff.

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Lostandfound,

Yes, I'm sure you do appreciate 'being understood', as opposed to what, aspect-wise, you know full-well warranted more of a dressing-down. Wouldn't we all. *However,*, since you've gone on to actively demonstrate a wish to, what is clearly *a return* to better standards and self-control (tick!), plus revealed between your lines that an affair was never your true agenda, I'll leave any semi dressing-down to you, yourself, when you next look in the mirror.

FYI (as if you even needed it), if a MARRIED MAN fraternises with a single, available woman with whom he nearly got it on and towards whom still harbours feelings that by the sanctity and legality of marriage are supposed to be held solely and exclusively towards the woman he wed (whether officially or otherwise) - he is already cheating. It's called, Emotional Affair, defined as: when one partner is channelling physical or emotional energy, time and attention into someone other than the person with whom they are in a committed relationship.

That's you. To a tee.

So let's establish that, in your case, unwittingly and unintentionally, you have been having an emotional affair - FACT.

When you spoke to your wife, did you happen to mention this single "girl"(??) you've been long-term pursuing (and no doubt routinely fantasising about)? I'm thinking, not, but - do feel free to surprise and impress us on that score?

This "girl" (under 12 years of age, is she?) (apparently - emotionally - yes!) clearly, despite unlikely to ever admit it, either to you or herself - likes having a Number 1 Fan hanging around, someone, she's well aware, who constantly lusts and hankers after her *and* tortures himself over. What a great, non-stop ego boost for her (think about it)! (You're trying to get the same boost reciprocated, only it's either failing to come at all or is far from convincing.) But ask yourself, what type of PERSON would - COULD - get a buzz from knowing she were meantime effectively helping to put two people's marriage - and lives - not to mention all the lives that are touched by them - in dire jeopardy, rather than feel remiss, guilty and debauched enough to act - ACT, not flap her lips around - accordingly? What type of "girl" would have refused to have automatically recognised, right from the word Go, that any "friendship", due to the nature of its now-firm basis, were completely out of bounds according to the codes of social-marital responsibility and moral decency?

HERE, LOSTANDFOUND, I DON'T FANCY YOURS MUCH, I HAVE TO SAY! But then - if you're honest - neither do you. The evidence of the only truth-sayers - namely, actions! - of your having rejected the past, so-called, one-time, golden opportunity to start something with her (despite you'd have had us believe your being already well and truly taken wasn't what posed sufficiently on its own as an embargo for you) - unequivocally proves so. So does the statement about you realising she brings out the worst in you. And what was this so-called 'blowing-up' at her of yours? Your attempt to seduce her into bed?!

Come off it. There are more ways than merely the verbal through which to attempt to repel and reject or constructively dismiss someone, you know? (Yes, you do know, Career Boy.) Given that you had the other option of just turning around and walking away, FYI that episode was your passive-aggressive, albeit half-baked attempt to send her packing, once-and-for-all. And it's not hard to see why, for if it were *true* she didn't want to (help you to) 'screw up your life', her feet would have been following suit, END OF! So - blah-blah-boring-BLAH! We can all go 'blah-blah-I hate ice-cream' while shovelling great big spoonfuls of the stuff into our gob, can't we; means eff-all if the behaviour/actions fail to correspond. Or what? - you and she (and your wife) live on some highly remote, deserted island hence you're her sole option when it comes to finding a friend?

She talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

So there's another, equally easily-establishable fact: Your trouser department might be/might have been tempted, but your mind (and presently smothered thus furiously-yet-not-quite-audibly whispering code of ethics) was not and is not. No doubt because it can tell you're risking allowing yourself TO BE USED.

And whilst I'm at it - no, your (er) relationship with this girl did not accelerate or bring to a head your sense of dissatisfaction with your marriage, it helped CREATE (or complete) it. It's called Demonization (of the innocent spouse/marriage - go Google), being an all-too-common, guilt-tension-avoiding thus self-preservationist psychological switch (cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias) that occurs the minute any normally morally-decent person puts one foot on the whole slippery slope known as the adultery path.

You're just lonely. And (ref. jobless) bored, devoid of any proper mental stimulation for one as, normally, intellectually *and* (thank uck!) emotionally intelligent and sensible as yourself.

That's it! It's no more complicated than that. And why *wouldn't* you be, given that your best friend (and no doubt confidante) died (- sincerest condolences, btw). So lonely, that you have been (or were?) willing to pay an unacceptable, even ultimately *majorly* self-harming premium to get an almost ready-made replacement friendship using the little-realised currency called ongoing hinted offers of perks that go above and beyond those widely associated with genuine, platonic friendship. So, as you can probably now tell, you didn't even ever believe straight friendship alone were an option unless you presented whistles and bells that weren't even yours to offer, in with your whole 'pitch'. In other words, you obviously like her talkativeness and *seeming* emotional intelligence (- pff, "is" likewise *does*) but have been aware on some level, that pure, genuine, unadulterated friendship was never what was on offer and said 'armchair therapy' of hers came with too hefty a price.

Leaving the blow-up as a mere style of delivery aside (although, what *got* you to that point where you lost it, I ask myself?), any time you try to confide your innermosts or get her to spell out hers, you basically get punished and deterred as her avoidance tactic against having to deal with it/you, 'welcomed back' again only once the storm's well and truly passed ("phew, yet again managed to dodge the work bit!", thinks she). So no wonder you can't 'handle it'. What's to handle? A romance? NOPE! A genuine, mutually-supportive friendship? NOPE AGAIN! So - what? Something neither here nor there for you, but which meanwhile makes *her* feel like a supremely desirable specimen *and* gives her a minion to blame or dump her own life frustrations and truth-avoidances on - equals USED, equals paralysed to act either way, equals LIMBO.

You're trying to get OUT of limbo, not add another dimension to it!

Something brought in as a work-avoidance aid, i.e. distraction, whether that work be physical or emotional, isn't even in the same solar system as a remedy.

This is the remedy (which you've already begun - tick!):

You wouldn't *be* lonely if you confided - fully, openly, honestly - including about negatives too - in the person who's duty and privilege it is and always was to be your first-call rock: Your wife. Maybe (understatement) if you ever had, then, *irrespective* or any momentary and fleeting, knee-jerk tears and tantrums on her part, simply while getting her head around whatever it at the time was, you and your wife would by now share the kind of intimate mental connection that cultivates the very closeness, trust and romantic-sexual feelings you claim have always been largely missing, whereby no other woman *could* get a look in. If you want to BOND with someone then you have to DO the things that are known to be bonding, ain't rocket science. Worked with this "girl", didn't it?

Dare to try it - or in your case, take it further than you already have (and - bears reiterating - bloody well done for having made a start!...I can tell you've managed to sense the difference it's made already). And get/finish getting your priorities right, if you haven't already since you posted that statement: no, this girl is *not* your most important issue. Your marriage is. Home is where the heart is. Physically or psychologically - bit difficult to get a job if you're homeless, isn't it? How can one move to B if one isn't even certain where A is or that that's where they're stood?

See, now, how it's all connected?

So at the same time, dare to dump this equally confused woman and your somewhat toxic relationship with her. For every time you even *think* about having that talk with her, you're furthering/deepening the emotional affair and moving yourself more visibly into cheater territory.

Keep doing what it takes to preserve your dignity and pride (not to mention everything you've thus far built) while you still can. WALK AWAY.

(Talking of walking: You walked yourself up that aisle, presumably without a loaded shot-gun held to your head, so, FYI again, you have- sorry, would have had (past tense) zero grounds for any resentment towards your wife, now or ever. But, going by your 'forgiveness not permission', I think you realise that (well done again).)

What you maybe don't realise is, you're the commitmentphobe (or were). Or maybe truer to say, understandably just commitment-inexperienced and -ignorant? Which is why why you recently attracted another commitmentphobe (that's how it works, even if you're not strictly identical). In reality/underneath it all, you're not *trying* to choose between your wife and this "girl". You're at a crossroads (catalyst - real time to mull things over, for once), trying to choose to either repeat and compound the commitmentphobia you've been allowing yourself to live under or finally, before it's too late, turn your back on that so-called self-protective suit of armour and 'enter rehab', the end result of that path being you sowing PROPERLY and reaping accordingly.

There be satiation and happiness in them there hills, there be. :-)

If not, do the decent thing in getting yourself divorced and *then* start behaving like a singleton with a vacancy, with your morals and self-like intact.

(Keep us posted re. your progress. I'm *semi* impressed but look forward to going the whole hog.)

**********

PS: Nice one, TEENIEG! :-)

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OFFICIAL WARNING:

"ANOTHER VIEW",

I would refer you to my earlier, informal admonishment and warning - inference by logical extrapolation having been perfectly calculable - as now colours this latest stunt of yours as deliberate:

https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showtopic/9559/Painful-Decision

If I catch you one more time advocating or, worse, trying to actively encourage a visitor to this exceptionally morally sound forum to commit *any* form of adultery to *any* extent, I will on-the-spot ban you.

Please now desist.

Yours sincerely,

SOULMATE
Forum Moderator

Nesting doll of issues

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Thanks Soulmate for you reply. I apologize in advance if I misunderstood your post in anyway, I am not sure i got it all coz your writing prowess is beyond my reading comprehension but I know there are lot of hard truths in there.

Let me first start by telling you that I feel like you got the state of my marriage completely wrong. It had nothing to do with me meeting someone. I spoke to my wife about it a couple of days back and she told me she has experienced every single thing I am going through right now, three years ago. Including infatuation/affair and she even met a couple of therapists about this whole thing. So situation of my marriage is plain and simple as I put in my earlier posts. I married her out of my own guilt and I never loved her. I deeply care for her and I would do anything for her but I don't love her. And yes I told her about the girl I met recently, I wasn't going to at first, because I thought that it might cause her pain and she might misunderstand the situation just like you did but she told me she herself has experienced it all including having feelings/infatuation for someone else and that if there were someone else I have met it wont surprise her. I am relieved after talking to her and I am glad that we are on the same page and at the very least I feel we both have a friend now we can count on. We are not separating right away but we are going to figure it out together and take as much time doing it as we both need.

I don't think i am afraid of commitment myself. I get into things and I try till I feel like it is not going to work no matter how much i try. I think my marriage was 5 years of trying. May be I am afraid of commitment in the sense that I don't keep trying.

I totally agree with you that I cheated on my wife emotionally. I told her the same thing when I told her, 'I didn't cheat on you .. well at least not physically'. But now that i know beyond doubt that my thoughts about my marriage weren't just my imagination I don't feel guilty about it. I don't think my needs from this girl(she is 30 btw) are physical. I had every opportunity to do all that stuff but I chose not to. I am not saying i didn't want to I am a guy at the end but I knew the cost and I didn't want to do it at that cost. What I am trying to say is that emotional involvement perhaps was not in my control but physical was. I am open to other interpretations of this situation too. Now that you have more color on it you may want to look at this situation under a different light.

When I said this girl is my most important issue I meant that it is taking a lot my time and one way or the other I need to resolve it so I can start focusing on other stuff in my life.
Now let me state what I meant when I said 'blowing up'. As you already know I did not have an outlet to my inner emotions so i would usually bottle them up and then something would trigger me to just lash out at her and yell at her and say what I need to say in whatever way I want to. Usually meant being mean and yelling at her. The first time I did it, it was when she was trying to tell me her insecurities about her not being very good at what we are learning at the school we are attending and I literally rubbed it in saying well you are in fact not very good. What I wanted to say was you are not good but not coz you are dumb but coz u are not interested in it and you are not putting effort. But given that she was already insecure and as she puts it 'your closest friend echoing your worst fears' became salt on the wound. Second time I simply yelled something outrageous at her and called her names. I am not proud of that and I always apologized the next day. Both times she has said 'I clearly make you miserable' and we both have said that we shouldn't see each other but ends up convincing me that we should stay friends. That is what I think you refer to t half-baked attempt to send her packing.

I am right now just helping her with some stuff and I sometimes get a feeling of being used but then I think that earlier she helped me a lot with things that I needed (work wise) without me even asking. So at the very least I want to return the favor. What bothers me is that emotions gets mixed up in this process and I think you nailed it on the head when you say this is not a genuine form of any relationship, not a genuine friendship, not a romance .. its nothing. All I want is to be able to speak my mind and not be taken otherwise for everything I say. And I dont want to get crushed little by little only to crush someone else in one shot. I actually wonder that do I even want anything from her anymore. I mean clearly having an emotionally meaningful relationship is important to me and if our wavelengths don't match then I should get over it and move on.

Nesting doll of issues

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So you *did* tell your wife that part. Well, then - giant kudos! (Sorry for the deliberate challenge to your pride, but it had to be done to cut time. ;-))

Not sure why you say the state of your marriage has little to do with it? That factor always has *everything* to do with a third party being brought in. Hence the saying about how one doesn't tend to go out looking for (catering-grade) sausages if they feel they have fillet steak at home. Yet here we have you *and* your wife having tried to do just that.

*Sometimes* the steak has to be home-made, using raw ingredients, rather than shop bought. *Sometimes* the ingredients are already sat in your fridge/cupboard.

I don't know if you took a ganders at the thread behind that link, but I suggest you do because the OP (original poster) was in a similar situation, the difference being, his third party was an ex, feelings being 'in memoriam' (aka "the one that got away").

Was your wife's dalliance likewise emotional-only? The way you put it, I'm presuming Yes.

I appreciate how back then you settled for her, but, here's a truth: if a man is truly determined enough, he can woo practically *any* woman into his lap (hence you hear reminiscing couples, usually the woman, spouting such things as, "...and, ha-ha, get this - the truth is, we didn't even *like* each other at first!...and *now* look at us!" [snog]). And that's the problem with arranged or (your case) marriages that are contrived for avoiding the parentally-arranged sort: where's the need to woo in order to catch/hook? The whole challenge, incentive and rewards mechanism are missing and have to be put back in concertedly. Same goes for continuing to woo in order to keep or strengthen that attachment. In other words, yours and your wife's attachment was pre-provided for you but wasn't of the legitimate, emotional variety; you married her via your head, not your heart. Marriage happens in the heart...a couple doesn't suddenly fall in-love the minute the vicar says, 'I now pronounce you', right?

The fact is, you're *both* dissatisfied (un-lit), lonely and under-connected. And there's little worse than being in a relationship that makes you feel alone and lonely, even if just romantically. It can be soul-destroying if you don't do anything about it or don't know how due to the natural and involuntary urge not being present (yet).

As for this: "I don't think i am afraid of commitment myself. I get into things and I try till I feel like it is not going to work no matter how much i try. I think my marriage was 5 years of trying. May be I am afraid of commitment in the sense that I don't keep trying."

Course. You can try as hard as you like, but if what you're trying to get more from doesn't sufficiently fire you up or feel achievable to begin with, your heart's not going to be sufficiently in it to succeed, is it. So I very much doubt that that 'trying' would match the level of enthusiasm and determination that, for example, Mr Soulmate applied to me/our relationship, he whose heart and trouser dept. were so into it that I initially felt almost invaded and conquered as much as wooed (- I called him Pepe Le Pew; nuff said). At the time, I wasn't even sure I was ready for such an intense relationship and certainly hadn't (hah! -) planned on one...so there was me, thinking, 'Er, shall I, should I?' whilst there was him, going, pelt-pelt-pelt with his very intense wooing campaign (which he hasn't ever even stopped!!!) until my inner animal shoved its hand over my mouth and its hands up my back into my limbs, going, 'Shut the eff up, you - *I* want him and don't give a flying duck for what you want!'. So my point is - what I thought was neither here nor there...Mr S was pushing and pulling romantic buttons and levers for all he was worth...until I succumbed. And that was no mean feat: I was a giant commitmentphobe. He managed to woo a giant commitmentphobe to 100%, for-life committed and fruit-loopy over him/us! It's just about pushing buttons, levers and pulleys - whether the person has more of those than the average or not - until your primitive mental programme kicks in and takes over, that's all it is.

You settled - or TOLD yourself you were settling? - for what you believed would merely be the least worse option, and then, during that 5 years, would have operated accordingly half-heartedly.

What if the unknown truth is, you *didn't* settle? What if that was just what you told yourself, as in, 'If I convince myself I'm never really in it then it'll be impossible to end up all that hurt if I get spat out of it'? People do do that, you know? A LOT. And they achieve it *either* by picking the wrong candidate in the first place or by picking the right one but failing/refusing to adequately push and pull. Going by how exceptionally easy and amicable that talk was(!!!), I'd place you as the latter. Furthermore, the fact that your wife has been feeling and acting the exact same way (when she could have reacted in myriad different ways), says, like attracted like. The scope for falling in-love with each other (to the point where you're seeing versions of one another you haven't ever met nor knew even existed) is too obviously there and just dormant.

No, *I* don't think your need of this other woman is physical, either - hence said so (in the context of your having lost your best friend). But, put it this way: I doubt very much you'd have sought a friendship with her via the illicit relationship door as your subconscious way to get her to be your 'replacement' best friend, if one look at her had had you yelling, 'UGH - Shrek!', would you. You'd have to fancy her sufficiently to even think about entering that 'barter deal' (admirer/boyfriend-ship in exchange for deep friendship) to begin with. So - "What I am trying to say is that emotional involvement perhaps was not in my control but physical was. " - CORRECT, that's exactly what I was trying to explain.

And the interesting thing is that it's completely the other way around with your wife. So, in effect, you've got two HALF relationships on the boil but no one, full one. (Only full ones ever reach boiling point where love delirium kicks in.) But as I can see you're starting to realise, it's do-able to cultivate (and keep) romantic-sexual feelings for someone you genuinely like and respect but *isn't* (i.e. is impossible to keep) when the person looks hot but is (or consistently behaves) in distinctly repellent ways. I call it, them bit-by-bit kicking the love (or regard) out of you. In other words, there's scope for your marriage - IF you study up on which levers and pulleys to activate, when, and in what order - but there's none with this "flighty girl". (I should cocoa, she vexes and frustrates you so much you end up blowing up at and in front of her!) (so would I...in fact, we've all been there, trust me on that). So I'd have thought it were logical to try again with your wife, the woman you *do* like and care for/respect, before considering taking the giant, life-changing decision to divorce... this time the correct way and for long enough to see actual results... in which case, you don't need a counsellor but a relationship guru (person or book form). However, you have a distinct advantage in that you're mainly at home during the daytimes. ROMANCES/ROMCOMS! These are simply vehicles for making money/taking advantage of the fact that too many men don't give women what they need, to the point where women will try to BUY what's missing from their lives: Romance. Which is just pornography of the subtle, more sophisticated, *intellectual* variety (women's greatest erogenous zones live in their *minds*). Doesn't *matter* that the efforts you're making are contrived for the first few steps/a springboard, it's literally solely the thought and willing that counts.

I don't know whether you and your wife realise this or not, but to me it appears very much as if your subconscious minds are far cleverer / are 'ahead of conscious you' than either of you realise, in having conceived of the fact that living separately BUT FRIENDLY-LY for a while, whereupon alienation would kick in and bad habits (including thoughts) wither and die, despite contact would remain intact, would be THE perfect condition in and from which to start pretty much helplessly thinking and behaving like daters (put someone in a distinct situation and the psychology follows to-suit). This gives you roughly 6 weeks to prepare - TO RENOVATE THE FLIMSY FOUNDATION AS MADE THE CONSTRUCTION ATOP, FROM THERE, LESS THAN WORKABLE - so THAT if/when you next say you tried enough to succeed yet failed regardless, it has real meaning.

"When I said this girl is my most important issue I meant that it is taking a lot my time and one way or the other I need to resolve it so I can start focusing on other stuff in my life."

I know what you meant. You're still incorrect. Because what *I'm* talking is, avenue of approach. This other woman is a SYMPTOM of the ailing state of your marriage (and loss of your bessie mate), ERGO, if the 'disease' itself gets eradicated - POOF! - your symptoms - these feelings towards the other woman - will - surprisingly to you but not to me - suddenly disappear to-suit. WHEREAS, trying to deal with the symptom just, as I said, encourages you to keep both feet in Cheater territory (which isn't 'dealing' with anything, it's exacerbating...compounding...a form of suicide, just mentally-romantically). Always, always go straight for the root cause, rather than waste time treating one functionality-affecting symptom after another.

Question: how often do you tend to unintentionally insult your wife in the way you 'kept doing' with this OW?

...As you already sense (- you are exceptionally sensitive, aren't you), if you and this OW had ever been on the same wavelength, she'd have filled in the otherwise potentially contentious and troublesome gaps *for* you, in her head, and not been left feeling insulted. That's how it works. Example using myself and Mr S again: if he said, 'Well, you're NOT very good, are you?', I wouldn't ever automatically assume he were trying to make me feel 'less than' (because I'm surer than sure regarding his reasons and intentions which, making me feel bad, doesn't serve). I'd have already been primed to believe the opposite and would have said, 'What do you mean?' to give him a chance to clarify/explain, not instantly reared up at or gone snooty or funny on him. There's the difference that makes *all* the difference, hence the saying, Birds of a feather [should] stick together. (Tell her she can insult herself as much as she likes but that doesn't give her the right to involve you or blame you for it.)

This OW isn't on your wavelength *at all* so presumes a case of attack. So you're arguing, the pair of you, before you've even reached the level/tenure of closeness of attachment that normally heralds/facilitates such friction. Put it this way: being unable to see one another clearly, when you're coming at her with a massaging stick, she sees a knife. Lovers need to see each other clearly even from '5 feet' away so that, much closer-up, nose-to-nose, where (positive) friction creates dust clouds and muddies the vision (think mini-tornado), visibility doesn't become actually compromised (make sense?). You two Mr Magoos haven't got a hope in hell, you'd be fighting non-stop. Methinks she must have residual dust and cloud still blowing around her and impeding her visibility of you from a prior relationship, which, when mixed with your at-the-time present frustration, is not a good recipe (ker-boom!).

Er...News for her: truly close friends are *supposed* to echo your worst fears! You trust them and know they've your best interests always in mind so know for certain, no matter how badly phrased, they always mean well thus are at all times willing and capable of *taking* it from them. In actual fact, it's their status-given duty and privilege! Why - what does *she* think close friendship is all about? Oh, wait... we know that already in your case, don't we: Close friends are supposed to constantly flatter and compliment you to make you feel far better about yourself than you could manage alone in the time it normally takes (BECAUSE of the time it would normally take..."yawn, can't be bothered"). BER-BOM. She doesn't need a friend, she needs to work on herself until she likes herself - warts, sometime failings, inadequacies 'n all - but would rather someone else did her personal, private homework *for* her. Told ya - you're an ego-fixer/booster on-legs. Seriously, if you two were still schoolkids, it's be this: 'You're my bestest friend in the world, you are...Do my English homework for me or let me copy yours, will you?'.

Now back to your wife in the context of your having for 5 years 'tried'; let's apply your own, "I identify" statement to it: What I wanted to say was [I am] not good but not coz [I am] dumb but coz [I am] not [sufficiently] interested in it and not putting effort. But given that [I have] already [been feeling] insecure...

For 'interested', substitute 'have sufficient faith'.

See how that works, now? Because I'll tell ya this for nothing: YOU WERE TALKING TO YOURSELF - *THROUGH* HER. Which is WHY you didn't provide the gap fillers. YOU YOURSELF DIDN'T NEED THEM. Evidence via illustration: Right now you're definitely talking to me. And I haven't spotted one, single gap and am certainly not even remotely insulted by anything, anywhere. Funny, that. And clearly, going by the huge amicability towards you in actioned format, neither over these years has your wife. Again, funny, that.

I'll tell you summat else interesting about when I met Mr Soulmate: I knew I genuinely found him incredibly likeable and interesting (platonic love and fascination at first sight), but I wasn't quite sure I fancied him or even could...he was utterly nothing like my usual type, nothing like I'd ever met. But - two to three piddly months in, oh BOY did I! We're talking, rip his clothes off with my teeth-ville! And the more I responded, the more inspired and encouraged and wildly into it he got.

HOW COME? Answer above. He went *straight* for the kill, hence, kill me (my reticence, hesitancy, doubts - barriers) he did.

"I am right now just helping her with some stuff and I sometimes get a feeling of being used but then I think that earlier she helped me a lot with things that I needed (work wise) without me even asking."

Translation: 'I feel obliged because she helped me'. No, pal, a woman whose behaviour/events illustratively prove sees one-on-one friendship purely as a one-way mutual appreciation society does not help someone unless there's something meaty or meatier in it for her, hence is actually helping herself *through* you, equals, using. That's why she keeps trying to convince you, despite all the neon signs urging the opposite, to stay "friends". If next week she met a man who romantically fully lit her candle, you'd not see her for dust. TRUST me on that.

There's therefore no favour to return (but nice try ;-)). Do the right thing and excise this Other Woman from your marriage while your marriage (and sense of pride in yourself and your calibre) still has a pulse. Tell her, 'You were right - we just make each other miserable so, thanks for everything, take care and have a nice life'.

So here's your healthier programme: study up on great wooing techniques or enlist the help of a live guru. I realise it'll be almost wholly a contrivance at first - although your wife *is* your friend - perfectly evidently!! - so you can do it in a spirit of wanting to make your best friend in the world feel special, even just out of appreciation for that aspect alone, until such time as you automatically and involuntarily get *hooked* on starting to see her flirty, giggly, blushy, 'schoolgirly' side AS ACTIVATES *YOUR* ARDOUR / TURNS YOU ON - whether you want it to or not...that's how it works. I call this concerted effort-taking, Faking It to Make It.

If - IF - that fails, THEN, as I say, you can walk away without guilt and self-recrimination or any looking back in 5, 10, 50 years and saying, 'If only I had...'. Being capable of KNOWING you gave something that failed your very best shot (for long enough), ergo failure was inevitable no matter who/what/when/where/how, is *priceless*.

Alternatively, with cutting the OW out, you'll have all your cylindry back on board and newly-oiled for really pushing through with an effort at gaining a job - full or part-time, doesn't matter initially - that you like and which makes you feel needed and vital, which can only have a positive knock-on to on your relationship with your wife, anyway. But (every environmental tangible having a psychological equivalent), I think you'll find every job application form asks for your home address *before* wanting to know about your work-life history. 'Where are you from?' comes before 'Where do you go and where are you headed?', which is simply an human expression of our innate sense of natural importance and order. Alternatively, there's both simultaneously, but you don't strike me as a multi-tasker, for one, and, two, multi-tasking isn't giving something your *all*. And only All wins All, rather than Half Of.

If you lack the starting movitation, you can approach it in your mind as a sort-of game come experiment if you like/if it helps? Just see if you CAN, see what your wooing muscles are really made of, whether you're a Woody Allen that needs to hit the mental gym or an as-yet untapped, secret Arnie. It'll certainly prove invaluable if you *do* end up having to romantically start over again and having to date (hunt/chase/'hypnotise' into submission) so - win/win/no lose, this is an highly convenient opportunity. And if you know how to woo, you can certainly do the watered-down version of making genuine, platonic friends (tip - always pick morality levels as your thing in common, your bonding element, because, unlike mere circumstances, those things are life-lasting and never really alter much). Plus, amongst other reasons I don't have time to go into, your moral intact-ness increases your allure to other people/the opposite sex (if you want someone from 'the premier league')...these are in with all the other little elusive signals we aren't even aware are getting sent out and read. EVEN IN JOB INTERVIEWS, NOTE!

Cheaters are losers. Basically. Cheating *never* ends well - whatever form that takes - and creates a far harder and prolonged workload [understatement] to tackle than merely saying Sayonara to an all-work-no-perks OW and heating up ones own wife to the positive, most sought-after version of madness there is. May as well just throw yourself down a very deep well with no ladder and be done with it.

(..just looked up. Flippin' 'ell, don't I go on! :-O)

PS: If you want to start a second thread to help speed along your grieving process for your late friend (because that'll be clouding your thinking as well), feel free.
PPS: He obviously possessed and was comfortable with his feminine side - correct? Either that or this OW is ucking manly? LOL

Nesting doll of issues

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When someone woos someone they don't force themselves to do it. It comes naturally. I totally get your point and I am the same way. When I want something I do everything I can to get it. Without even trying. I don't think either of us (my wife or I) wants the other enough to do that. Coz if we force ourselves we ll be forcing ourselves throughout our lives. If that happens on its own while we are together that's a different story.

I see more and more now that I am an emotional and practical patch for ow. Today we were walking to school and I joked about walk fast or a car will hit you and we don't want to dent the poor man's car. And she got angry at me and called me rude for calling her fat. And I was reminded of what you said. She insults herself and sucks me into it. I am not going to apologise for this. I always tell her that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. If you cant take a joke from someone u call a good friend then you either don't know what a friend is or u are too stubborn to see another person's perspective. Not even your friends.

I think I need to be myself for a bit and not play to anyones tune. I ll step back and may be I ll see things clearly. For now I want to live my life the way I want to without making any apologies for it. And if someone one doesn't like it they can be on their way.

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Regarding my friend. He died almost 5 years ago.. and he was in. Relationship that went sideways. He was visiting me and he got drunk and slit his wrists. I got him patched and brought him back to his parents. Because I was sure this will happen again and I might not be around to save him. And couple of days later it happens again. I miss him every day. But I am not still greaving him. I cherish him as the person with whom I shared everything but he would know even if I didn't . That is what made him my best friend. One-time I was super upset about something and I called him. He listened to me and then said why don't u go to Mc Donald and eat something. Weird right.. I was at MC Donald when I called him and I had every single thing on Thier menu olin front of me. I am not even a goody or person who eats when depressed. I am actually very fit. But that was amzaing. And I do the think I am lucky to get the same bond again. But I cherish him as a happy memory. And I am gonna continue to do that.. it would just be easier if he were here. I don't know about him having a feminist side. He just knew me.

Nesting doll of issues

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If you had to force it to the extent of using that word to describe it, then - no, there wouldn't be much point. But, going by events, I didn't see you and your wife as being that far gone. Furthermore, if you're not that far gone then, my point was - forcing it would be so short a situation as to be not worth worrying about, certainly not the permanent state of affairs you seem to think it would demand. I think you need to re-read that bit again, maybe, in order to see I'm talking about the same 'preparation' and 'contrivance' as, metaphorically-symbolically-speaking, taking a short run-up before launching a kite into the wind, but where the very running *creates* the wind that then 'grabs' the kite. You're then still somewhat in control of the kite itself, but...NOT THE WIND.

Clearer?

It never 'happens on its own' (very little does!), our behaviour and actions both encourage it to commence/spark *and* stay lit. If it didn't, this would be the way it went: *bump*...well, hello, gorgeous, I quite fancy you, actually / I quite fancy you too! / there's a church over there - you game? / Sure! / I now pronounce you.... You date and woo, which basically means, do nice and pleasing and complimentary things. You can do that for your teammate, can't you? That was my point, just get the process activated TO SEE what it starts to activate and yield.

Your 'insult'. Were you expecting her to appreciate that the joke WAS the fact she's far from fat/heavy, i.e. sarcasm? Or just playing around with the obviousness of your concern being for her welfare by adding the pretence that it were out of the car's welfare? Or that she's made of Titanium, hence the car's bodywork would get it? Otherwise, I'm unsure myself what angle of humour you were coming from? But - whichever - I get your point. She's not a banterer, not someone who can take the pee out of herself and thereby welcome it equally from outside.

Anyway, I don't want to get into talking about the OW because your objective is obviously to cut all marital subversives and non-conducives - all ankle-weights - *out* of your life, not in. But, yes, I agree you should just be yourself - with anyone. Albeit your *best* self, wherever possible. Otherwise, what you're doing is tantamount to those sorts of women who fake "O"s and then wonder why the 'how's yer father' never, ever goes on to become satisfying, let alone anything to write home about ("duh").

Quality over quantity. If you stubbornly or concertedly stick within reason to your genuine self and behaviour - yes, at first likemindeds will be thin on the ground as all chaff and incompatibles fade away (because it's a process and processes unfortunately take time...thus patience and faith). But soon enough, thanks to a more strong and definite vibe and increasing 'Mona Lisa' smile, more and more of your particular feather (or feather-compatible types) will be automatically drawn to you and your life will improve on all levels, across the board, because of it....at which culminatory point there's no going back (nor ever wanting to!). That's the beauty of being human. None of us are unique, meaning, our optimum types are most definitely out there and spending time 'collecting them up' as you go/as you live is ones only 'hurdle'.

Re your friend. "OMG"! So he thought it was the end of the world and concluded he may as well join it? 'She' must have been the final straw, then, after a long line of straws?

News for you: missing him every day *is* grieving...or one face of it, certainly. If the rest is going on behind-scenes where you can't sense it, that doesn't mean it's not underway all the same. Why, what did you think grieving was and-only-was?

Question: "Never miiiind-I'll finnnd someone LIKE YOOOOOOU" (Adele). Why do you think that song of hers has remained such a hit?

Anyway, I see the (over-common) misidentification, here. He was sensitive, both outgoing and incoming. She, on the other hand, is (temporarily or perhaps always?) just thin-skinned. There's the diff that makes *all* the diff.

What hobbies/interests was your best mate into? What types of places/venues/clubs (if any) was he noticeably drawn to?

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So the chapter with ow is closed. She misunderstood me once again and walked off I didn't apologies and this time we are done for good. Just an update.

My wife kind of did a 180 degree U-turn on me today.. I had a talk with her today and it felt like she refuted everything she said earlier... But I can see that it is finally sinking in for her and that she is scared. I was never sure of the question "what now" more like I don't think I am in any position to deal with it. And I felt relieved when she seemed to be on same page. but now I felt the same guilt today that I felt when I married her. I don't just want happiness for me. And leaving her unhappy will not make me happy.

So we have decided that we will treat what we have discussed so far as us acknowledging that there is an issue. We are going to try everything we can before we throw in the towel. We discussed a couple of options, including taking time off, counseling and separating etc. But it felt odd that she wanted me to take some action right now. She said she just wants to feel like we are working on it. I can kind of relate to that, even though I don't hear back from the company I still feel good about sending my CV , it feels like I at least did my part. I am hoping to get a job soon, knock on the wood, and if it happens to be in a location different than where I am currently then i may be take some time off.

In the meantime we are going to seek counseling. I hope things get better from here.

Regarding my friend. He died in 2011 and I think I am missing him now more than usual coz I feel like I am in a puddle of shit and I don't have the shoes for the same.

He was not much of a drinker and would generally enjoy simply hanging out with friends. That's what we all did back then. We were a group of 4 very close friends. When we were in college we played a lot of sports together, so he was into sports and was a big foodie. There was this one place we would go to in the evening and I remember going there each and every day for three years when we were in college. We used to play video games together a lot. His taste was expensive for his pocket as a result he was always short of cash but he was very resourceful and very sharp. He had a knack of reading people. He also was a big talker, so many things that he wanted to do but never got to it. He had a tough relationship with his father but he was very close with his mother. He had a big heart and even bigger smile.

Nesting doll of issues

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Really? You dumped the OW? (PS: they ain't acronymed phonetically like that for now't,...ha-ha-but-seriously). WELL DONE - IMPRESSED! You'd be surprised how many people don't have that level of strength of mind, either for doing it at all or in such record time. And I doubt you yet realise the magnitutude of what you've just done, life-quality-improvement wise. But you will. You can guarantee it (when, not if). It's like a little-known gauntlet run, being able to excise someone that does you no good or, in this case, worse....'automatically' shunts you a number of steps up in one hit, despite the results can take a bit of time to come in and be felt (everything has to shift position to suit your new attitude, first). So I'll say it again: bloody well done, Gold Star, I'm impressed - you've obviously got huge potential, my lad! And I don't think you fully realise just what a downer that "OW" was...albeit that you did in reality bring it all on yourself (symptom).

*I* suspect that you (think trampoline) felt you were closer to the bottom than the top, ergo that was the most efficient place to allow yourself to orientate towards, so that (think hitting the trampoline) you could bounce more definitely upwards than if you'd tried to keep straining to reach Up when you didn't have the impetus/kenesis. (Sense?) By dumping the Ow!, you've in effect brought in an intermediary springboard to make Up more reachable/doable. DAMN right your chances now of getting a job have just increased!

I wouldn't worry too much about your wife's seeming about-turn. Her prior attitude got allowed to set as a habit so it's going to take time to sink in and effect, as in, the final, permanent attitude, meantime producing that pendulum effect ("ready, not ready, ready..."). It's probably just the pressure AT THAT PRECISE POINT of feeling like she and you have to act "now-now-now!" before she's properly got used to the new programme (or maybe she had a bad, full-on week). Ease off, let her chew, swallow and digest, whilst meantime - secretly - setting a mental deadline so that you don't allow the pair of you to just 'fall back to sleep' again. Proof: she's agreed to counselling (watch the feet, not the mouth and the meaningless crud that can come out of it, always the feet - they're your 'proof').

"I can kind of relate to that, even though I don't hear back from the company I still feel good about sending my CV , it feels like I at least did my part."

Exactly!

Re the counselling. It's productive but it will feel quite negative for a while. So I seriously suggest you ensure to pepper it with as many fun times and outings as you can. You two need, more than anything, to put the FUN back in (the couple that laughs together, stays together). But they *will* 'get better from here'. Impossible not to, now that you've taken the toxic/self-destructive elements out and put in the healthy, productive ones. Plus - remember...if other couples who once didn't even like each other got their kites swept up by the wind then - pff, you and your wife who like each other A LOT have it even easier (piss-easy!). You'll either come to the conclusion (worst-case scenario) that you'd both indeed be happier with other partners, YET by then can remain firm friends for-life, *or* will find the wind 'taking your kite' whether you want it to or not (if you know what I mean). It's your inner animal that gets sucked in and takes it from there, pairbonding is ITS domain, Conscious You have VERY little control, you/we just think we do... so if it likes it, that is that is that, you're going to get dragged along (but with a huge smile on your mush). So - Either Or - win/win, no failure. And as I said, as a side-bonus (that you probably won't even need) you get much-needed practise at becoming nigh-on expert at putting a gormless grin onto any woman's face.

You're not in a puddle of sh*t (stop talking like that, it's more bad for you than you realise); you've started the process of stepping OUT of said puddle. You're now more Out than In. So BE PROUD...and don't go back on anything, keep the end prize very firmly in mind: same woman, all loved-up together -v- eventually new woman, all loved-up together. PROPER LOVE (which includes best friendship...or IS best friendship with physical bells on) is where you're headed, is the point. And then you won't even NEED a best male mate!...well, not if you finally, for the first time, do a relationship fully/properly, you won't. Friends will just become side-bonuses....and they'll undoubtedly be other happy, healthy couples.

Sports. Food. That's what I was trying to find out. Certain 'birds' of whatever feather tend to express it through whatever they're most interested in and naturally drawn to, pasttime- or environment/location-wise. Prime example, myself and Mr S met on a beach on holiday (Spain). Favourite beach, favourite country, favourite beach-ing time of day - VOILA!, that's where our respective perfect match likewise was drawn to. Prior to that, we'd both wasted time on dating-sites (with tw*ts) (i.e. not remotely our feather...and they weren't crazy over beaches, funny that).

...So... You had a tough relationship with your dad too, did you?

Work on wife first, the friendship/attention-giving side first, and then, when you two are fit for 'bringing other people in', try to seek out those same places and pasttimes (as well as hers); that's where you'll meet your perfect type(s). It really is that simple. And not just for me/my personal experience or those of certain of my friends/acquaintances, either.

Keep keeping me posted, yeh?

Seriously - well done, you're obviously made of tougher stuff than you thought. :-)

Nesting doll of issues

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@Soulmate you are giving me more credit than I deserve. It sort of just happened, I made a silly joke and she took it personally as usual. I didn't apologize, we both walked our separate ways, and neither of us looked back. She then unfriended me on Facebook so that's how i know its for good this time. I guess it doesn't matter how it happened but that it happened. I would also not pretend that it doesn't bother me. It doesn't hurt as such but sure it is bothering me but I fully intend to get thorough it.

I think what you are trying to say about my wife doing a u turn on me is that even when we think about something happening a whole lot and we are prepared for it, we still have a hard time accepting it when it does happen. I agree with that, I have been there and i know the feeling. Even though I understand the situation I still don't like the fact that she denied everything. She has a habit of becoming defensive and changing the story. So I would say I have trust issues with her and she knows that. She went back on everything. When we spoke earlier and she asked me if there was someone else and before i could say anything she said don't worry I have experienced that too and when you are ready I can tell you more about it. She made me feel like she had an affair herself and then now she says no I just saw someone happy in their life and imagined how my life would be with them. It felt like I was either lied to before or I am being lied to now. It felt like my best case scenario is that I was manipulated in to telling her about ow which i would have anyway told her. I am sure I have no issue with her having had an affair (if that is true) but being lied to or manipulated is something I have an issue with. When I reminded her of some other concrete things, things that she couldn't deny, and proved to her that she is just being defensive, she said well yes may be I am just denying it coz I am not ready for this. This has happened couple of times before (not in this context) but when ever cornered she becomes defensive and denies everything and I end up looking like the liar. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that she is a bad person, I completely understand that the situation for her is very bad and she is just trying to manage it the only way she can. I am just expressing my feelings about it. After all I brought the whole thing up.

I feel like once I get a job things will start sorting themselves. Which most people have pointed out in posts above. I am trying hard in that area, but immigration status and all my education and experience being in India has made it tough for me to find a job here in the US. It feels like it would almost be a miracle if I got a job. Hopefully I will stay determined to see it though and find a job. Pray for a miracle for me if you can.

P.S. I have a good relationship with my dad. But ya I agree about sports and food both of which I have now lost interest in, but i think that happened before he passed. I remember the first time we met. Early days of college and everyone is trying to be cool and we were playing football, which he was passionate about, and we ended up in a tussle both of us too smart and would out wit the other and both of dumb enough not to back down. And we dint like each other but as the time passed somehow we became friends and best friends at that. There is this one memory of his that comes to mind a lot these days. When I was in college, there used to be power cuts every day at night 8-9. I only used to experience it during exams, coz I only used to be home at that time during exams. This was my favorite hour of the day coz during this one hour my friend and I used to go sit at the water tank at the top of my building. Neither of us were the studious type so for this one hour we could legitimately escape studies and do what ever we wanted. He and I would sometimes sit silently and some time talk about life. But most of the time we would argue about one single topic. I would try to convince him why he should not miss the exam next day and that taking the exam is a good idea and he would plot schemes to miss it and do calculations on how many marks he would need in the same exam next month if he skips this one. For some reason target for the next exam was always easy to reach irrespective of how big it was and the target for next day’s exam was always too much to get to no matter how small it was. I think I understand him now. I bet if I could go there now and he come too then he would tell me the same things I used to tell him. I hate the fact that the only person who would probably understand this is not there and now it is exam time and I feel like am not prepared.

Nesting doll of issues

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(Sorry for the long delay, can't be helped, I'm afraid, got mountains of practical demands lately and need to pare down the 'extra-curricular' posting side of my position on here, to-suit, but sorry about the bad timing, anyway.)

1. I'll be the judge of whether you're being impressive or not, so, unless you want an arm-wrestle over it - take it like a man. ;-p

2. Are you saying [a] your wife somewhat tricked you into spilling the beans, with a story that was untrue in terms of the implied magnitude (in order to create what was a false sense of confessional security), or [b] that you're convinced she *was* being truthful at the time but quickly backtracked/denied? Why, do you suppose, she'd feel she'd needed to do that? Yes, I agree, neither dishonesty nor inconsistency with honesty would inspire closeness and confidence in her/your relationship. But, a lie is never automatically a bad thing, it's the spirit it's given in and what aim it's after that decides that. Give it time if you know what she said/what you heard (it was important to you so you doubtless paid close attention and it equally doubtlessly imprinted onto your memory). Plus, your take doesn't preclude prior misinterpretation on your part because it's entirely possible she might have made a prior misunderstanding (thinking you meant, simply newly finding other members of the opposite sex attractive - hence, "me too - go ahead and spill")? I wasn't there, however, you were (I'm just playing Devil's Advocate), so if you're dead cert even after considering a case of 'crossed purposes' then - I believe you.

Another alternative [c] is that she initially thought you, likewise, meant a full-blown (not just emotional) affair; invited you to spill yours; suddenly realised her crime were far worse/deeper and hence was headed for losing her the (now fake) moral high ground if she didn't seriously minimise the content to which she'd minutes before merely alluded.

But this should all come out during counselling, anyway, so don't stress it in the meantime, keep your powder dry. Meantime - "she said well yes may be I am just denying it coz I am not ready for this.": WELL, YES, MAYBE I AM. I know what causes that prefix so - stop doing that, stop feeding someone you want truthful answers with with any pre-emptive, cop-out answers via generous-hearted propositions for why they did something in with delivering your accusation/challenge. Let them provide their own answer (if they can).

If she *was* deliberately lulling you into a false sense of security then there'd be two possible reasons: [a] doesn't trust you enough *yet*, still in me-versus-the-man and over-defensive mode from prior relationships, [b] manipulative, possibly with however much a streak of personality disorder type Narcissist (their crime gets turned around - via lies, half-lies, embellishments, spin, twisting, etc. - to be somehow your crime against them, each and every time), which would mean, unfit for a relationship in the first place, needs medical intervention (albeit they're still victims in the grander scheme - someone did a huge number on them - not knowingly bad people per se (unless they're a Triad type, then it's "run, Forrest, run!"). I'm thinking [a] because I gather it's **only when she's cornered**, making her a sheep in wolf's clothing but where she seemingly chops and changes so often you can end up wondering whether it isn't a case of wolf in sheep's clothing. Saying that, one can be so chronically, drip-drip stressed, to point of normalisation, that they behave *like* a Narcissist (until the stressor(s) gets finally removed/situation normal returns again). So consider and take into account her dating and childrearing history. Because I'm meanwhile sat here considering whether this pattern of behaviour makes you yet ANOTHER person having to seek feedback from pure strangers on a forum due to the Narcissist/narcissistic individual having biased, and alienated you from, your usual support network to the extent where - you try to complain/signal or ask for help but said friends and relatives have grown so convinced by the carefully crafted and maintained, false benign mask that they don't believe you/think the problem is you. (If you feel that fits you, now's the time to say so rather than do your (now obvious) usual shielding of her.)

3. There are surely Indian companies or those that trade with India been set up around your locale? Try to be more intelligent about your target market. (I don't need to pray, this process IS "praying", if you get what I mean?)

4. What about with your mum?

5. What you've just described about your friend, is that he was a pencil-sharpener for your wit-pencil (banter), and someone who'd help you let yourself off the hook...someone to be naughty with (temporarily lower your standards) as well to at other times 'aim for/compete with', but where his self-disciplined so lacked that you felt beholden to 'hoik him back up' to a higher level (i.e. you'd get down to his level before pulling him up. *Rescuer*).

6. Exam time: unfortunately/fortunately, small but fast crises (dawnings followed by grieving) like the one you're having don't tend to obediently and conveniently follow any plans and schedules. That's life for ya - lots of curve balls when you could really do without them (so you think). Just do your best and consider that (everything happening for a reason, always) whatever results you get might be intended as a rudder for wherever you're intended to be headed next. Don't struggle, don't try to control, don't whittle and worry, just go with the flow and cease being so over-hard on yourself all the time (that's the preparation). This is childbirth, psychological version, so for a while, until the baby (enlightenment) pops out, you're going to be experiencing however much a level of to-and-fro-ing, equilibrium-wise, like contraction waves (fine one minute, feeling highly anxious and angsty to the point where it produces physical sensation, the next). You probably could do with having a very big cry (using those little holes in the corners of your eyes...you know the ones? The ones "god" put there, according to the male of the species, merely for eye-decoration. ;-)).

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B-11