Emotionally distraught, fiance wants to be a father which I can't give him

Hello, here is a bit of background. I am 43 years old and have 3 wonderful children, married and divorced twice. 2 years ago I reconnected with an old love 7 years younger. My intuition told me, it would not work because I had no interest in having more children and he may decide one day he does. I went against my better judgment, and believed him when he told me he would only ever want me and as long as we were together any need to be a father would be secondary to us being together. Fast forward 2 years, and lo and behold he has decided he cannot ignore this need any longer and although he loves me and doesn't want to lose me, he simply feels a part of him is missing. He struggled with this need for months, before sharing with me, and only did because it was affecting our relationship negatively. We did try to conceive as I felt I loved him enough to sacrifice what I wanted to give him what he wanted. We went through a devastating miscarriage and many failed attempts. All of this changed us as people and we were growing farther and farther apart. I have lost who I am in the process and he has too. Now we are at the point where we have acknowledged that it is what it is, and maybe we aren't meant to be together. I am having a hard time accepting this, as I know the love and compassion we have for each other. I feel like a failure again, I just cant seem to make the right choices when it comes to love. I am trying to tell myself that everything happens for a reason, and this too shall pass. It's just so hard and I have such emotional breakdowns, that I find it hard to go on with daily life. I am feeling devastated that I have opened my children to another heartbreak as well as they have all bonded with my partner. I feel guilty, and a failure as a mother, and partner. I have read all the tips about learning to love yourself, and feeling the pain instead of pushing it away...I will be purchasing a book to read (haven't decided which one yet, if anyone has a recommendation, please share.) I guess what I am looking for are people to connect with, to talk to, during this difficult time.

I can’t even imagine what you’ve been through. That situation is one can only hope not to be put through. I may not be able to give you the best advice, for I have no children and I’m not in that stage of my life. However, when you say you need someone to connect with, I share that same feeling. My boyfriend and I just broke up after 2.5 years of being in a relationship. He told me he still has feelings for me, yet he just doesn’t know if he wants to make a commitment anymore. It’s not fair to both of us to be so committed and for them to be constantly changing their minds. We deserve to be with people who are willing to stick with what they committed themselves to. Not someone who changes their mind for what’s best for themselves, and not considering how it can affect other people. Including your children. You are no where near a failure as a mother or a partner. You are willing to do what’s best for the ones who care about you, and it sounds like your partner is not considering how it’s only affecting you, but also your relationship and your children.

Agree with TryingToBeOptimistic. Let's deal with the principle via a simpler analogy: You went for a job interview - for simplicity of argument's sake - for the position of full-time Personal Secretary as stated in the job advert. In the interview, you were told you'd be expected to do typing, filing, appointments-making and answering the phone. Salary £16k, 3 months trial, 5 weeks holiday per annum, 2 weeks sick pay.... the usual. During the interview, the employer mentioned that he also liked his secretary to wash his car every week, with her bare hands, using only ice water and a toothbrush. You replied that you wouldn't be prepared to include this task in your skillsets, even in concept, let alone the horridly unreasonable details, even leaving aside the fact that this task were not universal part and parcel of the job title. Said employer stated that was fine, he was just asking, just in case, and added that appointing someone of your calibre was far more important than his car's cleanliness; he'd let it get dirty or find another solution - whatever/whichever, that was his problem. You affirmed your stance, just to make doubly sure, and he return-affirmed his acceptance of it. Coast clear on that score, you accepted the position. Six months or so shy of your second year with the company, you now comfy with, attached to and invested in working there, said boss began causing problems and upsets. Eventually he 'admitted' (alleged) that it was because he was 'finding' (to his purportedly Forrest Gump self's surprise) that he could no longer cope with you not taking on regularly washing his car. Questions: Recognising a giant moving of the goalposts - how would you have reacted at that point? But what would you have concluded and how would you have reacted if, having gradually, over time, extracted your beating heart (like you'd always presumed was a mutual part of the deal), instead of taking brilliant care of it, like you'd been doing with his, he suddenly one day sat it on a plate (time a-ticking), held a large knife above it and threatened to slice it in two "unless..."? Now imagine for the sake or this hypothesis that although you're aware you'll in time grow another heart, you'll suffer keenly in the interim. NOW TELL ME WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS between the above and what he's done? ALSO TELL ME HOW FINDING YOURSELF TRICKED INTO THAT POSITION, SOMEHOW MAKES IT *YOUR* FAULT AND FAILURE? You're a victim. I suspect you were effectively tricked - via a false pretext - into handing over your heart. ****** Please could you give me the ins and outs regarding just how things got 'affected negatively'? ***** PS: I'm not sure what book to recommend yet - hence my questions.

I posted a reply yesterday, I was quite long, and now Im not so sure it went through as I cannot see it. Im starting to think there is more going on, then I think. There have been trust issues from the beginning. Due to shady things my fiancé would do...deleting messages, caught him talking to girls (flirting online) He claims he made a mistake and learned from it, and we tried to move on and I tried to trust him again. This morning, we were talking and I mentioned that I was scared we haven't tried hard enough to have a baby. His response was that too much has happened, to come back from, all the fighting and hurt words. In my opinion, there hasn't been that much....which leads me to believe something has happened on his end that I don't know about. Am I overthinking this?

No you are not overthinking this, you clever little wotsit! :-) I'll explain this evening (hang tight).

...In the meantime, tell me more; go into specific events and details about his reprehensible behaviour and activities, all the way down through behaviour non-conducive to the romantic relationship, to his simple refusals to cooperate or to share in the rowing of the little love boat (hence why you've been so dizzy and unsure). PS: Suggest that before you "click once to submit" you Copy your post so that if it gets lost in transit, you can paste it back in.

Basically - to clarify: tell me all the things he's ever said or done that have stuck in your mind, which you would avoid doing or wouldn't dream of doing to your life-partner/lover (or to any human being full-stop).

Ok it's going to be a long one. We met 17 years ago, and were lovers on and off for 5 years. He was young and quite the player, although he would tell me how much he loved me and how much he wanted to be with me, his actions showed differently. He would pick up other girls and I would hear them telling stories of what he said to them, and sometimes it was verbatim what he said to me. So therefore I never picked him to date ever, as I didn't trust what he was saying to me to be true. Fast forward to spring of 2016, we reconnected as we are working at the same plant. We instantly started talking again, and he (lets call him E) professed his love for me again, and told me how he has changed and is ready to settle down. After a few months we made arrangements for our first "love making", where he bought me roses, wrote me a letter and professed his undying love for me, and I for him. Over the next few weeks, I started seeing a change, like a withdrawal, and after some insistent questioning I finally got the answer that he was scared and having second thoughts . Ok, so I gave him his space and I started to talking to another friend. A few more weeks went by and we remained friends and chatted at work, and I eventually figured out he was seeing another girl. I was devastated, and turned to my "other friend" to forget him. Once E realized I was spending time with someone else, he brought his attention back to me and started actively pursuing me again. He told me it was over with the other girl, and it made him realize he only wanted to be with me. I messaged the other girl (As I knew her) and found out it wasn't over, and he was actively pursuing her also. It all came to a head, as we both cut him off. Well he didn't give up, and actively pursued me and convinced me (he's very good at convincing me of anything) that he has changed and I was his one true love and he would never let me go again. We started dating June 22/16, and moved in together Sept 2016. (too fast, I know) We were in love everything was wonderful, he told me every day how grateful he was to have me in his life. We were truly emotionally, physically connected. It seemed as no matter what we did, we were a great team and could discuss anything. We talked about the baby issue, as I was 41 almost 42, have 3 children and was not interested in having more and I made that very clear to him. He assured me he was already going on 35 and decided if he didn't have any by this age, he was happy not having any. And on top of that, my children were wonderful and that would be enough for him. He assured me of this multiple times, as I expressed to him over and over that I was worried that he would change his mind, or regret that decision later when it was too late and then he would resent me. He told me as long as he had me in his life, he would not want any more. I had already given him the family he desired for so long. In May of 2017, I started having gut intuition that something was amiss. I asked him repeatedly if everything was ok, and he assured me it was. One day I looked at his facebook and snap chat and saw that he was flirting and snap chatting with the same few girls on and off from Dec 16- to current. I asked him about it and he lied, until I put the proof in front of him and he could not lie anymore. He had some deep conversations about how hurt I was and why he did it. He insisted he didn't know how to be a good boyfriend and it was just innocent chatting and he never would let it get too far. We made the decision to stay together, and I told him I didn't trust him. He said he would prove to me every day that I could trust him and he wouldn't stop until I did trust him again. Things seemed ok after this, although I was constantly checking up on him, and it seemed he was keeping up and finally committing to me. Although I still didn't trust him fully at this point, I felt he hadn't and wasn't physically cheating on me and we could get through this. Over the next few months conversations about having a baby would come up, and he would say if I decided to have one he would love that but if not that was ok too. In August of 2017, I had a pregnancy scare and we ended up having a very intense conversation about having a baby, and I realized that it was very important to him, and felt it wasn't fair of me to not give that to him, after all I loved him and wanted him to be happy. We agreed we would start trying and if it happened great, if not we would still have each other. I ended up getting pregnant Sept and miscarried around 5 weeks. We tried again and got pregnant in the end of Nov, but didn't find out until the 2nd week of December. A week before we found out, he proposed to me. He brought me back to where we had first made love 16 years prior and told me how much he loved me and how much he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. We found out a week later we were pregnant again, and we were ecstatic. We figured there was no way, we would miscarry again. We even told our family, and lo and behold we miscarried at 7 weeks. He was 4 hours away at this time as he was in trade school finishing his last year, and would be away for 2 months but came home every weekend. By this time, I had almost restored my trust in him. I was still worried from time to time but managed to push it away. The miscarriage was very hard on both of us, and we cried about it, and talked about it and ultimately decided what wasn't meant to be wasn't. He assured me over and over that he loved me and no matter what, he would always would. He told me he knew I was always thinking about not being able to give him a baby and he assured me I was way more important to him than having his own child. This was January. March 8 he was done school, and came back home and everything seemed great, we went on a trip to Georgia end of March, for his best friends wedding, we had a great time, and came home feeling wonderful. We tried one more time to get pregnant and miscarried at 6 weeks this time. At this time we talked and decided to take the summer off of trying. In April, we started renovations on the house, we were moving the bathroom into a bigger room and converting the old bathroom into a storage/closet. We started bickering over silly things, which would turn into bigger arguments. He would end up yelling at me, telling me to do it my way, because I always get my way anyway. I was always dumbfounded as I have always been the giver, and will usually always give in to avoid an argument. At this time, I was aware of the increased arguments but chalked it up to stress as we were in full swing renovations and E is also the union president at our place of employment. He would always apologize in the end and tell me that he didn't mean what he said, he is just stressed and he would try harder. In June I saw a text to someone I didn't recognize and it put a knot in my stomach, not that it was flirting or anything, but the way the were conversing made me think his interest was more than friendly. I was insecure at this point, because I still hadn't fully trusted him, I had gone through miscarriages causing my hormones to go crazy, and I was dealing with arthritis in my hip which made me feel even more insecure. I brought this up to him, and he assured me that I was overthinking, and that I really needed to trust him. I looked at his phone that same night, and most of the texts to this women were deleted. I asked him why he had deleted, he denied it, and when I showed him on his phone, he said he didn't know why it was deleted. He still maintains he doesn't know how it got deleted and that he has always been faithful, except the flirting in the first year. We didn't spend a lot of quality time together in June and July as I was working OT, and he was working on the renovations. We would get into little arguments which exploded to bigger issues that were bothering him: 1. I spent too much money on my kids birthday party (260, yet he went on a guys camping weekend and spent $500) 2. I procrastinate getting things done, even though I always eventually did them, it bothered him that I didn't do it right away. 3. All my stuff in his house, he is OCD and I am not. I packed a lot of my things and stored them in a corner of the basement, so he wouldn't see them, however knowing that they were there bothered him to no end. 4. he claimed I would override him when he would tell my daughter to do things, I didn't feel like I had done this at all, but admitted that if I had I was sorry and I would be more aware of it. 5. he once told me I was selfish, something I had never been accused of before. this was because at a concert we attending in beginning of August he kept leaving me alone watching the concert and be gone for 1/2 hour at a time. Finally I went looking for him and he wasn't where he said he would be, so I texted him and told him I was leaving if I was going to be watching the show by myself. That's where I was being selfish, because I expected him to be by my side at all times. 6. We used to have fun and drink together every second weekend and now I never wanted to do that, I explained, I was always either pregnant or trying to get pregnant or recovering from a miscarriage, and on top of that I was always working and he was always busy with renovations that had to get done. At the end of he invited me and my daughter to go on a union trip with him. we would go a few days early and spend some time and then in the evenings after he was done with the conference. We had a great first few days and when the conferences started he started saying he would have to go out for dinner and drinks with some of the other union representatives a night or two. Ok, I accepted this and we ended up having a conversation in the hot tub about union conferences and I had said that it was an excuse to party for most of them. He lost his mind and accused me of judging him for enjoying drinking. Once we came back its been full of tension, lots of discussions, and him going from saying he is struggling with wanting to be a father, to we have lost ourselves and the only way to come back from that is to be apart from each other. I told him I felt like he was giving up and that we haven't explored options to help us to have a baby and he's giving up. His response is that there is too much wrong to continue. I'm confused at this point, I thought it was his stress that was causing the irritations and the fights. I thought he loved me so much he was scared of losing me if he couldn't get passed the need to be a father. But now he's saying we changed, we lost ourselves, and in order to be successful we need to break up and work on ourselves first. My issue is that I have a 12 year old daughter (my older two are off to post-secondary), I already feel awful that she has had 2 years to bond with E, and now I have to tell her that we are breaking up and her and I have to move. I am not prepared to put her through that again if he changes his mind again and decides in a few months or a year he wants to try again. I feel if I walk away now, I will get over him and will not want to take that chance on him either. I totally agree that I lost myself, I became less confident, and stopped doing all the things I enjoyed. I have already started working on that. What I cant seem to get over is the fact that he swore over and over and over again that his love for me was greater than any obstacle that could come between us. Coupled with all the other lies he has told me over the years, I cant believe anything he has told me, or probably never will again. I fell rejected and scared and confused that what I thought I had was just a lie the whole time. I know that I have to leave, I know if I cant trust him, I probably never will. I'm scared to make that move, I m scared to see him with someone else, I constantly have emotional breakdowns and am trying to deal with the hurt face on. I thought we should try conscious uncoupling, but don't think this will work either. As long as I am pushing the feelings aside we are getting along and enjoying time together. We are still being intimate, but then I feel used after as he has gotten more dirty when we are intimate and less loving. I feel that doing this is just prolonging the hurt and we just need to separate so I can deal with the hurt and move on.

Be with you shortly!

That was not a long one, except when compared to the generally over-short ones. And I read whole books, doncha know, even big ones. ;-) Yup. That's what I thought. You've been in a Narcissistic Relationship ("Fauxlationship"). Sorry. But you knew this already (kudos!), you just (I'm presuming?) didn't know the specifics and lacked support. I say 'been' because you've been waking up...not that you were ever fully 'put to sleep' to begin with (too strong-minded and grounded in reality - High Five!). So sorry. But I'm more than just a messenger so don't worry, I may not be capable of being punctual as a poster, but I'm not going anywhere. No need to panic. And your kids will be fine at worst, greatly upgraded at best (see Lily's "Parents Getting Divorced" thread from two thirds or more the way down). Go see Dana (Thrive After Abuse) and Kim Saaed (Let Me Reach)...in order: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJv5JZnWkIU&list=UUPnGGpVYOYFm6Jmy4RJyDIg&index=9 (one video) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRytEgABFuo&list=PLcjFWuvIFFzJr5eXvb4rG_F-68lw4TK4T (complete playlist) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEG-fjksLiE&list=UUPnGGpVYOYFm6Jmy4RJyDIg&index=2 (ditto) You'll possibly have a reaction and be unable to take it all in in one hit. I'll be here, ready and waiting. This, for me, is basically Thomas The Tank Engine episode X, played for the 'zillionth' time. No Malignant Narc of any ilk has ever managed to 'do me over'. Not one. Despite too many have tried. I know them inside and out, backwards and forwards...better than they know themselves, can counter-manipulate the eff out of them, send them into the foetal position, even mind-eff them permanently. Even a whole coven of them. I'm their worst 'narcissist's worst nightmare', the Bullier Of Bullies. In a Bugs Bunny way. ;-) Mostly. And so will you be when I'm done with you (or rather, you're done with me). But we don't counter-manipulate them to salvage (not possible) the relationship (it doesn't exist), because we've better things to do with your time and energy/lifetime and that of your kids... just to get you out safely and soundly, with now't but petty scrapes and bruises, if that, smelling of roses to the point of exceedingly grateful you met him and went through this, while HE'LL be the 'devastated' one. But it relies on you trusting (sorry, I know how hard that is in your position) and cooperating fully. I pity the children they once were. But I detest them with an obsessive-compulsive passion (it's why I'm here) (this isn't my day-job btw). I'm going to squish him - through you (think learning to dance on my toes). IF YOU ACCEPT? Because you're a natural-born survivor/winner (I haven't got time to pick un-readies)...too difficult to dupe or keep duped for long enough (well - look!). You just don't know yourself that way yet. You will. (Kudos to you, btw.) IMPORTANT: *****Do not play the vids when he's around, not even with headphones. And delete your History. Say nothing (NO....THING!). Act normal and clueless...tum-tee-tum, business as usual...act your socks off AND ENJOY DUPING HIM FOR A CHANGE. This man was never your lover...isn't capable. He is and always was your enemy. You'll soon see (more than you already do).***** Your Fauxlationship: He was not just in the teenage Narcissistic phase, set to come out of it. He doesn't want to come out of it/can't/won't = can't. He's pathological. He did not want to *date* you or love you and have a genuine relationship (not capable - they only attach, not bond), nor have a baby out of love (it was just to see if you would and to knacker you out and thereby control you better). He wanted to conquer you (get power over you, your emotions, your life) and teach you (his "superior being's" past rejector who once dared be cleverer than him) a lesson, whilst turning you into a slave (one of many, he's clearly right now building a harem) (don't laugh, I'm serious). He hates (but fancies and benefits from) you - and everyone else, particularly the opp. sex - and always did. He is low or devoid of conscience and empathy and as he does his thing/behaves as he is, it has effects on you and the development of the fauxlationship that are rewarding for his malformed or broken psyche and over-giant ego, a pervasive pattern as has over time reinforced his continuation of such behaviours until he reaches Virtuoso stage (not there yet). He bullies you, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, via a whole bag of tricks - some soft or even pleasurable, even! - including, "I'm having second thoughts"...they're just scare tactics ("do it or the puppy gets it!") with which to control and cow you until you're completely in his power. He's been cheating on you at various levels, the whole time, letting you get whiffs only whenever it's served him (like earlier and lately). It's called Triangulation (go google). These relationships go: sublime....mixed bag.... mainly nightmare...mainly living hell....hello cancer or any other stress-related, inflammatory disease LIKE "arthritis in my hip" (HELLO?!)...or suicide or generally premature death. They do not get better, they get worse. And they keep you in the sick game by peppering this downward trajectory towards the plughole with re-Love-Bombing bursts (see first video). Meanwhile, their warped behaviour has been turning your mind into its own distillery so that, like a drunkard, now addicted (not you, though), you can't think straight enough to re-tip the balance or get away and end up incarcerated, possibly permanently (not you) in LaLa Land. Your boy's 'clonky', is both Overt AND Covert, AND sees children (other people, animals) as pure chess pieces to a huge degree AND plays exceptionally stupidly high-risk (willing to let you make a new human together, and drastic life change), which makes me suspect that the type of Malignant Narcissist/Cluster B he is, is a Sociopath (SO easy to diagnose these (sadly, emotionally dangerous) imbeciles because they all act basically the same to whatever degree, like reading from a more or less set script)...think dense, impulsive, raging, lesser psychopath (the latter are smoother, completely emotionless, always in control, and more easily missed...and, if you ask me, an altogether different breed from your Benign Narc--Malignant Narc--Sociopathic Narc spectrum... as in Psychopath--Dark Triad). The large majority of Socios and Psychos do not kill. The few in prison, do (hence...). Forget the film and book myths. But who cares what specific Narc type he is. Studying up on that should be your extra-curricular, not the 'meat 'n potatoes'. Escaping from the LaLa Land dungeon and compound is our aim. And you won't this time be 'turning to other "friends"' (that's Narc behaviour having rubbed off on you... Slime, we call it). This time you're going to completely and utterly heal until the result kicks in: you're naturally, automatically, instantly, at-first-sight, *highly* unattractive to all Narcissistic, even your mere Benign ones. You're ready because this is your third, meaning, "I've had e.....NOUGH!". Damn right. And you're a Weeble ("Weebles wobble but they don't fall down" - go google the old ad). But he was not 'over the other girl' (can't be over if you were never 'into'). She's another victim (YOU cut him off - don't automatically think she's your calibre), either stood in the wings or sat in the waiting-room, you betcha. Cease judging him and his behaviour by normal healthy human standards. He's an IN-human being. Only looks normal and that's where it ends. He possibly has up to 15 'girlfriends'. (This is why this minority group are no such thing: they move around, devastating many psyches and lives, a heck of a lot. They're a serious social problem, no matter which arena from domestic/behind closed doors to world leader status....it's all interconnected anyway, micro to macro.) He - like all the others out there - Love-Bombed you like a Academy award winner; tested your boundaries; then actually attacked your boundaries; re-hooked you whenever you seemed to be slipping out of his control again with quick bursts of Love-Bombing; Intermittently Reinforced the trauma bond (FYI you bond more when he's horrid than nice!); traumatised you; devastated you; fake-rescued you; used you; played you; tested his total control over you by insisting on a baby;...and now he's devalued you, ready to pretend-discard - or actually discard if you'll no longer play ball (don't - to be discarded is truly a blessing!) or break down. Almost everything that's ever come out of his mouth (and eyes) is a lie. Sociopaths lie via myriad methods (and act to award-winning level - again, like crying with you) even when the truth would serve them better. (You know how you feel when you lie? Icky, right? That's how they feel when telling the truth. Read that again.) They'll say literally anything - no No Go areas on these boys (and few girls)! Anything to get their way and get/keep power. Because that's all their minds can do. There were no 'arguments', btw. They're wholly contrived and manufactured in order to be a smoke-screen to top-up bullying. Ref 'too fast, I know': Of course 'you know'. That's not your Achilles in all this. Your (imperceptibly) messed-about-with brain chemistry is. YOUR EMOTIONS and primitive psyche departments. But not for much longer. They all follow the same pattern as yours did. You'll see plenty of comments on your web travels that sound like this: "Hey! Are you seeing my husband/boyfriend or something?". Answer: in a way, yes. And now I want you to realise how exceptionally powerful your mind is, underneath it all: "I ended up getting pregnant Sept and miscarried around 5 weeks." + "and lo and behold we miscarried at 7 weeks" + "and miscarried at 6 weeks this time". Yep. Genius you. Sorry if that sounds insensitive to your motherly instinct, but your antidote - the truth - is more important at this point. You have a truly amazing mind and survival instinct, to even do that, whether you knew it was you dodging a new-mum bullet aka set of shackles or not. (You did the right thing - he did NOT want that baby and it would have had a miserable childhood, guaranteed. You saved those little souls, missus.) I want you to sit with this knowledge as proves how above-average powerful your mind is. Until you see and accept it. And then I want you to state whether you decline or accept my offer of accompaniament and guidance (n things n stuff, including HAVING FUN with this...whistling as we work....and reversing your hip inflammation). You game? PS: It was The Deletion Fairy that did it. Didn't you know that? ;-D

PPS: I need to re-set your tampered-with dials on your 'equalizer board': "We would get into [FAKED] little arguments which exploded to [FAKE] bigger issues that were [MOSTLY NOT] bothering him: 1. I spent too much money on my kids birthday party (260, yet he went on a guys camping weekend and spent $500)" You don't spend the money - *I* do! Me-Me-Me (and eff you)! "2. I procrastinate getting things done, even though I always eventually did them, it bothered him that I didn't do it right away." Right away/walking on eggshells = you KNACKERED = less mentally powerful and 'high-maintenance' to his self-appointed-Royal self. "3. All my stuff in his house, he is OCD and I am not. I packed a lot of my things and stored them in a corner of the basement, so he wouldn't see them, however knowing that they were there bothered him to no end." You and your stuff are of no consequence, you don't get *any* rights, they're all for me; plus I wish to strip you of your self-identity from all angles. "4. he claimed I would override him when he would tell my daughter to do things, I didn't feel like I had done this at all, but admitted that if I had I was sorry and I would be more aware of it." He had no right to tell your daughter to do things. He (which is if he were normal/healthy) only had a right to HELP YOU discipline...support, not take-over. His aim was to shut you up and put him in sole charge. But if he were trying to gain control over your daughter whilst reducing your rightful control, too? Madam, I'm sorry to say, it's quite possible that this boy, amongst everything else, is additionally a paedophile. (SORRY, REALLY SORRY!) "5. he once told me I was selfish, something I had never been accused of before. this was because at a concert we attending in beginning of August he kept leaving me alone watching the concert and be gone for 1/2 hour at a time." Talking to one or more of his many mistresses. "...Finally I went looking for him and he wasn't where he said he would be, so I texted him and told him I was leaving if I was going to be watching the show by myself. That's where I was being selfish, because I expected him to be by my side at all times." Their definition of 'you being selfish': insisting they get their hobnail boot off your big toe. They've been able to deduce how you hate being associated with selfishness (you're over-socialised, FYI, which comes either from your adolescence onwards or as far back as early childhood). *You're the outright OPPOSITE of selfish* (but we're going to fix that as well). "6. We used to have fun and drink together every second weekend and now I never wanted to do that, I explained, I was always either pregnant or trying to get pregnant or recovering from a miscarriage, and on top of that I was always working and he was always busy with renovations that had to get done. Renovations and texting/calling his mistresses. "We had a great first few days and when the conferences started he started saying he would have to go out for dinner and drinks with some of the other union representatives a night or two." Dinner and drinks with a mistress (hence you couldn't come). "He lost his mind and accused me of judging him for enjoying drinking." You got too close to the truth so he bullied you back down again. You're not confused, you're paralysed. But not for much longer. You're getting over him already, as we speak. I'm going to legitimately speed that up. Meantime, trust me - there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to be scared. He's more scared of you. I'll repeat that: he's more scared of you than you are of him. With good reason. :-) Bye-bye emotional breakdowns, hello SQUISHED SOCIOPATH and hello Old Me, New & Improved. You're here. You're already safe. Read my posts multiple times until it's really 'in'.

Take your time, by the way. It's a heck of a lot to take in, I know.

PPPS: Book (if vids aren't safe): Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry & Controlling Men". He (top expert) takes you beyond recovery of yourself, into recovery of your child and your mother-child relationship....the entire path (well, from meeting the Narc, anyway).

(Tsk! Stupid me! I realise I could panic you over the 'possibly a paedo' comment. He's not touched her. He's still priming. You. He has to get total control over you first, because he has to go through you, the gatekeeper. Even if you were intending to stay (god no!), you'd have plenty of time still on that score. Phew. Sorry. Trying to do multiple things at once tonight. Have slapped own face and will be more careful next time.)

Hello! Deep breathe! That was a lot to take in, and I did read and re-read a few times, probably will continue to re-read in the upcoming days. I am 100% in. I am ready to take my control back, and be the strong independent women I was at the beginning of this one-man show. I am disgusted that after all the love I poured into this man, he has the audacity to try and control me, and treat me like a sub-human, especially knowing my past history with controlling men. I know I have to tread lightly right now, he has control over me financially as he technically owns my vehicle and until I can get my finances in order, I have to play nice. I will admit, I totally freaked out when you said the pedophile word. I instantly went into rage mode, and lucky for him he was not sitting beside me at that time. I had to remind myself that my daughter is strong and would have told me if something was amiss. (Please dear god, please let this be the case). If he so much as laid one dirty perverted finger on my daughter in an inappropriate way, he will regret the day he first laid eyes on me. Breathe in, Breathe out......... In this moment we are "consciously uncoupling", living together, supporting each other through this break up. He is now saying I am the one that broke up with him, he was just merely asking for some time to think about his need to be a father, and whether he can give that up to be with me. He also stated that we lost ourselves during our relationship and the stresses of miscarriages and failed attempts at getting pregnant. And my inability to completely trust him has put a huge strain on us, so in order to find ourselves and heal and be happy, we need time apart. He constantly states, he feels like I am blaming him, for the relationship demise. He suggested that in the future after we are done healing, we may possibly find each other again, and be "happy" like we were in the beginning. I told him, if I walk out the door, I will not be back. He broke down crying, saying he has hope we will be back together. I reiterated the core of the issue, he wants to be a father. If I came back, he would still have that need and we would end back up in this very spot. At this point, he actually, (hold on to your chairs), suggested, "who knows what will happen in the future, I may end up becoming a father in the time we are apart, accidents do happen." Excuse me???? Did I hear that right?? I am supposed to go my own way, while you go procreate with someone else to become a father, and then come back and raise this child as my own, and deal on a daily basis with your baby momma who gave you what I failed to do? Is that too much to ask of me? At this point, I wasn't sure if I should cry or laugh. I probably did both. In the past, during relationship break-downs, I have always gone inward. Often not sharing my feelings and emotions with my family and friends, until the day I walk out the door. which is also when my family and friends find out the relationship is over. I am a highly private person, and on top of that do not wish to burden anyone with my issues. I realize this time, I should try the other way. I have been turning to my best friends for support, talked to my sisters and parents and let them in on the state of our relationship. I have leaned on them when I am not strong, and they build me up and give me the power to go on. I do not think it was an accident that I happened upon this forum, and truly believe you were sent here to guide me out of this situation as a whole person, strong and ready to take on life on my own. I must tell you, we are still intimate. We have always had an amazing sexual connection, and he defiantly judges his control over me by how willing of a participant I am. I'm afraid if I resist the intimacy he will become aware of just how over this relationship I am. I look forward to the next step.

I know, it's a complete head-f**k ('scuse French). I'm so bloody sorry, I can't tell you. Almost easier to believe you're paranoid and over-sensitive, isn't it? And how ironic that we grow up, believing in fairy tales, then decades later, newly believing they were rubbish, then another decade or two, having to reinstate that belief, to our utter astonishment (albeit, the Grimm versions are closer to the truth than the "Stand by your beast of a man, Beauty" Disney version....(I'm *very* suspicious of ol' Walt, I tell ya). In fact, whenever I'm sat here, spouting this stuff, I'm well aware that there must be a huge number of visitors, uneducated in this madness, who think I'm a stark, raving bonkers melodramatist....until they discover the (these days, thankfully not so underground) movement going on on the web, YouTube and social media (closed clubs) or, god forbid, suddenly find themselves in a fauxlationship with one of the devil's own, after the usual of having for so long (too long - is the narc's cleverly-stupid ploy) been utterly convinced they'd finally - FINALLY! - OH, JOY! - met the love of their- not just lives but *many* lives. 'If it feels too good to be true, it probably is" (another new mantra). But anyway... deep breathing is right. It's going to be your best friend from now on... Commando Breathing. Any time you feel yourself begin to get upset - because of him and his latest or because you're tired/ill/whatever, with lowered resilience, and where you're at starts to get to you - do this: BREATHE IN-"thousand, two thousand, three thousand, four thousand", HOLD-thousand, two thousand, three thousand, four thousand, BREATHE OUT-thousand, two thousand, three thousand, four thousand REPEAT X 4 minimum. So quick and simple and great in an 'emergency', this exercise stops you from going into Fight (, Freeze) Or Flight as basically dumbs you right down by a whole 10 iQ points lower than normal, AT LEAST (which is what he wants - hence why tries so often to shock you to your core). Foix gras-ing your brain with oxygen also releases counter-active endorphins (feelgood chems)...two for the price of one. It works amazingly well...hence your SAS boys and snipers use it, "innit". They can't afford to panic or freeze or they're dead. Yes, do keep reading. You have a number of 'layers' to your psyche and they ALL need to read that interdepartmental Memo so that they'll all be on-board with Conscious You, rather than arguing and causing 'hung juries' as both paralyse and cow you, either against brave action or taking it at the appropriate instances. "I am 100% in. I am ready to take my control back, and be the strong independent women I was at the beginning of this one-man show. I am disgusted that after all the love I poured into this man, he has the audacity to try and control me, and treat me like a sub-human, especially knowing my past history with controlling men. I know I have to tread lightly right now, he has control over me financially as he technically owns my vehicle and until I can get my finances in order, I have to play nice." You were always more in-control and generally bigger and scarier than him - hence why he netted you then (in order to) sat on you. Just got to throw him off. Starting - yep - with you getting prepared and organised (more about that later). Oh, they all have audacity. Truckloads! Don't be 'disgusted', as in, feel it were all a waste of time, though. It was great practise for the real Mr Right (one of). Think of him as a mental gym (following the prior two). You're now RIPPED inside that head of yours. Here's something you won't know? That 'amazing, romantic, attentive, sensual, super-sexy lover'? IT WAS YOU. They just mirror you, do what you do/would do, having mined you for data on your preferences, to 'answer to my prayers' standards; it's not their style or M.O., it's yours. You've been having a relationship (the good stuff, I mean) with yourself. Think about it. Aren't you a truly superb lover? :-) That fact's going to blow your mind as well, probably. Ah well... Little Flower you are not, I'm sure you can take it. Not that you won't backslide here and there, mind. That's where I'll come in. ...And Lily, actually (the one I mentioned up there). With your permission, I'd like her to join us? [1] I don't always get the time to turn up bang on-time, so Lily can stand-in and assist (she's agreed very willingly) so that you're more or less never alone or waiting around. [2] She recently worked out, due to his (sh*tty) events that her dad ("dud") is a Narc (I suspect - and herself too, now - he's specifically a Narcissistic Sociopath). [3] Her grasp of the topic, now, is astounding...in a very short space of time; all she lacks is more long-term, global experience of all types in all relationship types, but BOY has she excelled at the theory! Take a look at her posts (or her own thread). SHE'S MORE THAN HALF YOUR AGE! :-O (I KNOW!!!) (...bloody Millennials, showing us wrinklies up ;-p). (It's alright, she already knows I'm a fan...we've got a Mutual Appreciation Society going on, LOL.) I couldn't think of a better "m'colleague", particularly as one of our other genius posters and longest-running veteran (Susiedqq) prefers to cater to the Shorter Haul posts (which is actually quite convenient for us "dog-with-bone" merchants). I'd like to train her up (in case I ever get run over by a big, fat truck). ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Other than we three, however, I'm going to state for everybody here's attention that ***********THIS THREAD IS A 'CLOSED' ONE, ANY OUTSIDE CONTRIBUTIONS WHATSOEVER BY INVITATION (MINE) ONLY*********** ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Waking up to find yourself in LaLa Land is dizzying enough, without the addition of "too many cooks". I'll 'go get Lily' now (if she's around at this precise moment) and then finish responding....

(Sorry - should have said, I'll finish responding and THEN get Lily.) Describe the ways in which he has financial control over you. And confirm - you're not legally married, just cohabiting, yes? "I will admit, I totally freaked out when you said the pedophile word. I instantly went into rage mode," Really? Rage, not panic and hysterical sobbing? EXCELLENT, that is *so* encouraging to hear! Ha-ha - edit: *You're* going to squish him and I'm just going to sit here, applauding wildly! " I had to remind myself that my daughter is strong and would have told me if something was amiss. (Please dear god, please let this be the case)" It is the case - 100%. Ask her gentle, subtle questions by all means, but... They prime (enslave) the mother first. Always. And he's been unable to succeed on that score - so far...which is why the recent cranking-up attempt. But anyway, EQUALLY he could simply wish to dominate "the other female" of the household. Equally again, he may wish to butter her up. So that she'll take his side and be conditioned into bullying you *for* him (they're nothing if not mentally lazy). Who knows for sure at this stage (although in time I will). All I know, from what you've said, is that he was making his way towards her (before you kept obstructing him). Question: is going into an actual Narcissistic Rage (giant toddler tantrum) his default response whenever you say/do something he doesn't like (i.e. bloody everything), would you say? Or is that brought out only on special occasions? So IOW, out of the last 10 arguments, during how many did he keep his cool versus not? "In this moment we are "consciously uncoupling", living together, supporting each other through this break up. He is now saying I am the one that broke up with him, he was just merely asking for some time to think about his need to be a father, and whether he can give that up to be with me. He also stated that we lost ourselves during our relationship and the stresses of miscarriages and failed attempts at getting pregnant. And my inability to completely trust him has put a huge strain on us, so in order to find ourselves and heal and be happy, we need time apart. He constantly states, he feels like I am blaming him, for the relationship demise." My response to all of that would be: ....No you're not, no you're not, no you're definitely not (well, you might be but he isn't).....And it's all a case of Opposites Day with these tw*ts (google Narcissistic Projection); that claim is meant to soften you by making you feel guilty at being a right ol' meanie, and - ...no he wasn't, yes he could. ...No he didn't, what stresses, he's not stressed (they don't do stressed) (unless I'm in the room LOL). No it hasn't, no you don't (although you do). No he doesn't. "He suggested that in the future after we are done healing, we may possibly find each other again, and be "happy" like we were in the beginning. I told him, if I walk out the door, I will not be back. He broke down crying, saying he has hope we will be back together. I reiterated the core of the issue, he wants to be a father. If I came back, he would still have that need and we would end back up in this very spot. At this point, he actually, (hold on to your chairs), suggested, "who knows what will happen in the future, I may end up becoming a father in the time we are apart, accidents do happen." Excuse me???? Did I hear that right?? I am supposed to go my own way, while you go procreate with someone else to become a father, and then come back and raise this child as my own, and deal on a daily basis with your baby momma who gave you what I failed to do? Is that too much to ask of me? At this point, I wasn't sure if I should cry or laugh. I probably did both." And: ...No you won't (you'll see him coming and skidaddle) - and anyway, you're correct: he means 'done shagging other women'. And no you weren't, it was all just an illusion ("ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh, ah-ah-ahhh....i-lllluuuu-sion") (- name the 80s hit!). That's right, Arnie, you will *not* be back. ...No he didn't, thems woz Croc Tears as per. ...No, he doesn't. OR - YES - WHAT'S HE SUGGESTING? THAT WHEN HE'S HAD HIS "PRECIOUS" BABY WITH ANOTHER WOMAN, HE'LL BE BACK TO MAKE YOU HIS MISTRESS? (Answer: yup-a-dee-doo-dah!) (if he had his way). **Told ya - Harem!** And yes you did 'hear that right' (which spillage of his, is because you're now instinctively playing Friendly Interrogator - KEEP THAT UP - EXCELLENT INSTINCTS!). Mantra: "I asked the liar if he were telling the truth this time and he said Yes" / "I asked the liar if he were lying and he said No." Got it? FYI, he's met someone already. FYI, he's sh*gging her already. In which case (STDs) - HAVE A HEADACHE...PERIOD...FEEL SICK...TIRED....NEXT WEEK, I PROMISE (out-Narc him). Just keep him out. Cry lots. It's really good for you (you'd be surprise what's in 'mere' tears!). But stay angry. In LaLa Land, Anger is a godsend. So if you ever feel yourself losing it - just remember "when", from that very extensive menu...that ought to do it. In fact, secretly type out his Rap Sheet (so that you can 'snort' it whenever you feel your Cognitive Dissonance (google) pulling you back (possibly) to Softie state)..."It's good sh*t, maan". As is laughing (recommend you start watching repeats of "Frasier" (C4)...the benign versions made cleverly hilarious fun of). And eat and sleep as well as you possibly can (with a Narc in the house, obviously). A sign that you need to cry is when you start 'jabbering' or whinging obsessively to a trusted someone in 'real life', feeling DESPERATE to spout-spout-spout until you hear what it is you think you need to hear yourself saying...and your throat feels 'closed'. That's Commando Breathing time or Cry Time. If you need to cry when he's there, say you've got your period and just don't know what's wrong with you, lately, so that you don't have to hold it in. "In the past, during relationship break-downs, I have always gone inward. Often not sharing my feelings and emotions with my family and friends, until the day I walk out the door. which is also when my family and friends find out the relationship is over. I am a highly private person, and on top of that do not wish to burden anyone with my issues." That explains the rage, then (,s/he said, pretending s/he hadn't already worked that out ;-)). Good. Make him Whipping Boy for the first two (and those before them), as well. After all, he is the biggest and ugliest of the lot. "I realize this time, I should try the other way." Yup. Or BOTH? It's a common mistake to switch from one extreme to the other, rather than head for the middle(ish). "I have been turning to my best friends for support, talked to my sisters and parents and let them in on the state of our relationship." OH, EXCELLENT! I'm so pleased he didn't manage to Isolate you (google). "I have leaned on them when I am not strong, and they build me up and give me the power to go on." Oh, well - he's done for, then, isn't he. (All say "AWWWW") PS: You happy for Lily to join us? Soon as you say Yes I'll go grab her (although it's late so it'll be tomorrow now). PPS: Are you remembering to delete all traces of this forum? No, I mean REALLY. Technology tends to be their friend, remember?

Yes, by all means invite Lily. I will respond tommorow after I have re-read the above. What I will say now is, he didn’t always get angry it only started around May of this year. A year and a half after we started dating. I believe he had started de-valuing me as a form to justify his “feelings”. I don’t think he is already sleeping with someone else, I don’t know when he would, I always know where he is. However I do believe he is maybe on the prowl, via social media. I’ll have more tommorow.

Yes cohabitating, not legally married. Whew...thankful, I don't have to go through divorce #3. Although this feels very similar to a divorce, without the legal paperwork. Because I was going through a divorce in the early stages of our relationship, mid through a name change, selling property and separating financially from Spouse #2, E took out the loan and purchased my jeep. Its in his name, the loan is in his name and the insurance (although I am listed as the driver), is in his name. I have made all the payments and have documentation to back that up, if need be. I'm a bit worried, if I upset him in any way, like cutting him off intimacy, or making him mad in any way, he might retaliate knowing how much my jeep means to me. Other than that, I have budgeted amount that I can afford for rent, and I am patiently waiting for the right place to come up. We are getting along good at the moment, I have told him that I have realized we were never what I thought we were, and that I am no longer hoping that there ever will be more between us than friends. I also told him I am talking to someone who is helping me figure out why I keep choosing the wrong men. (yikes, I don't think he liked that one...but I want him to be aware of how serious I am, when I say, I have no hope or expectation of reconciliation. We have discussed living arrangements and he insists I can count on him, to allow me to continue living at his place until I have found something acceptable.

Be with you tomorrow afternoon! (er...much later today)

H Labrnr, I'm Lily, sorry you're going through this, you are in very good hands with Soulmate tho! I remember being around your daughters age and recognising there was something about my dads behaviour/character that wasn't quite right but I was unable to pinpoint exactly what it was. I just knew he wasn't always a nice person. In my teens I would argue with him a lot more, but I could never win an argument or get my point across because he would either throw a massive tantrum or silk and play the victim. He never said sorry either, we always had to apologise to him and it was always our fault. Now, my sibs and I aren't in contact with him, although he keeps trying, he's too toxic to be around at the moment and thankfully we have come out of this undamaged. So there might be moments where your daughter is recognising E's behaviour but, like me, is unable to say why. And when you are able to leave this 'man' she will be ok and hopefully see him for who he really. It's good to know she's a strong character and will talk to you.

(Thanks, Lils! I'm late - as per.) Labrnr, While Lily's waiting for your hello back, I do have to quickly jump in to point out where you've already made a giant boo-boo (uh-oh...bend over): Remember this? : "Say nothing (NO....THING!). Act normal and clueless...tum-tee-tum, business as usual...act your socks off AND ENJOY DUPING HIM FOR A CHANGE. " Instead, you basically told him the dreaded truth: [1] 'I see right through you' and [2] 'That's fine, don't care, doesn't even hurt' (just in a seemingly more ladylike-sophisticated-dignified manner than that. However, content trumps style. Every time.) That isn't exactly duping him into believing he's still got you squarely under this thumb, business as usual - right? See it? So that was less 'learning to dance on my feet' and more 'jumping off my feet, leaving me standing, and racing over to the buffet table because you've spotted the tub of Haribos'. Don't ever again tell him the truth about what you're thinking and how you really feel. I'll let you off because this is all new for you. But in future please focus and concentrate and take time to really think about what I'm saying/instructing/advising/warning? This won't work, otherwise. And if possible, check with me or Lily on whether or how to respond to anything meaningful if you're not sure how to play it or you can feel yourself getting negatively roused? And no more pandering to your own ego, acting on impulse and making decisions to come clean if ever emotionally aroused - okay? We're going to have to damage-limit, and quick. As follows: ********* First, understand that it'll be BECAUSE you've said what you said as well as oozed this new-found 'not that bothered' attitude, that you and he are (fake-) getting on great, through his being ever so (fake) nice, non-aggressive, cooperative and generous-spirited...more like his (faked) old self. You were supposed to be ON THE FLOOR with grief that Mr Wonderful were "exploring-announcing-exploring?" an X-years haiitus, you see. All that your calm sass serves to show him that he hasn't had you suitably under his spell and control - Must Try Harder. Hence his having switched from hurting, insulting and outraging you, to "laid-back lick, lick, lick". REALISE THERE ISN'T ANY 'GETTING ON GREAT' WITH A NARC, THE NICENESS IS ALL AN ACT. THEY'RE "HATERS" TO THE MAX! Luckily for us, being a Vulnerable includes paranoia and suspicion. So a part of him will be suspecting that you were pulling the wool about being fine about splitting-up emotionally while having to discombobulatingly wait for the real deal physically,...calling his bluff, merely in your attempt to turn the insecurity and re-clingy tables and have him worried you'll leave HIM. So - as is always the rule in these cases - we play to his ego, give it what it wants: I want you (tomorrow or Monday - as poses as realistic time-lapse) to act in accordance with having merely been bluffing, since then having lost your nerve, and trying hard (for pride's sake) not to show it yet not doing very well on that score. You don't throw yourself wailing, all ham-actingly at his feet or anything, no; that's too much. You just let him WHOOPS-catch you sneaking worried, stolen glances....subtly fussing over him (you just can't help it), e.g., offering to make his favourite supper,.....letting him pick what to watch on TV,...'fancy a cup of tea?'... The same sorts of approval-seeking things you'll have done during the Honeymoon (Love-Bombing) phase sans the added nervous and worried part. In other words - out-"lick-lick" him. The object is to make him feel SAFE...that he's still very much GOT YOU. Get him all cocky. That way, he'll feel free to start galavanting off for increasingly longer periods to tend to whichever mistress is picked to replace you as his Primary Narcissistic Supply (and have his baby, allegedly), as well as, whilst he's at it, give all the other ladies-in-waiting plates a routine quick spin so as to keep them merrily warm on the side for yet another few months. With any luck, he'll feel safely bold enough to 'go away with the lads' for an entire weekend! Then - again. And again. (New Habit, anyone?) ;-) In the not-too-distant future it'll undoubtedly be during one of these relaxed and confident, now-habitual expeditions of his, that you'll make your seamless exit. :-) Or maybe it won't? But it's intelligent to have all the options set up in advance so that on the day, if things don't pan out as planned or expected, you can improvise effectively, to-suit. Plan A, B, C, D, E...a solution for any potential problem. Or as I put it: PLAN AHEAD, STUP (Hur-hur) Let's start now with getting him lulled into a false sense of security, thinking he can get away with actual murder because - despite already having insulted you and your relationship to the core - a Gross Misconduct type of Dealbreaker, normally - despite the 'didn't hurt, mleugh' posture, what you HAVEN'T done is immediately pack your bags and leave in disgust (and f**k the jeep). It's too late for fake tears, breast-beating and grovelling, hence why I'm recommending the worried, lost puppydog act ("Let me get that for you!"..."Where you going? Want me to pause the film? You gonna be coming back?") - again, I repeat - as 'exposes' your newly chilled and sassy attitude yesterday as momentary courage or nothing but an act. We clear? ********* It's funny, isn't it, that despite he's so sure and okay with the plan to end the relationship, emotionally if not yet practically (as in the cohab set-up) - even to the point of planning a pregnancy - what he's strangely *failed* to do is ask you to vacate your desk so that Mr Gagging-For-A-Baby-Maker can get on a.s.a.p with instating and impregnating this other woman? This is just Poker. A game of Chicken. You yourself are preferring to stay put, *not* because you can't bear to end it, but simply to give you time to save a rental deposit ...and your beloved jeep. (Please tell me he doesn't know that? If he does - even MORE reason to now act like it's all a ruse for 'I can't bear to leave you, even if it means turning a blind eye'.) He's preferring that you stay put because he hopes you daren't leave him, hopes you'll find excuses to yourself to stay..and stay... and stay... in the procrastinatory process becoming wholly inured to "behaving exactly like his put-upon wife despite no longer BEING his wife", as means, becoming a cheated-on wife forever. One of a harem, as I said. What a great cover story and delay tactic for him when it comes to avoiding having to commit to the other woman/women, though! "As if torturing me for years wasn't enough - now the evil b*tch refuses to set me free by moving out! [which means, sorry, no, you can't move in, luv]". Seeing it? Getting into his mindset and M.O. yet? You can't move out / She can't move in. Cake and Eat It, parte un. He needs you (because she's not in your league) as his mask of respectability as makes him far more attractive to all other women of a certain attitude including something to prove to themselves and other women. So for you, it's this (faked) attitude and impression: Friday I felt okay about losing you but - OO-ER...now, having slept on it, I'm not so sure...the idea of never again 'sharing our bed' is making me start to grieve and panic (despite I'd never admit it). Can you do this? Convince him that what was mere bravado and anger has secretly worn off?

Hi Lily, thank you for that. I do believe she is seeing his behavior now, and probably chalks it up to him being mean. I know she will be ok in the long run, def more so than if I stay and she would have to put up with his behavior longer. I’m sorry you had to deal with it from your dad. Good got you for overcoming the abuse and now helping others.

Sorry, really sorry. Yes, I do give into my impulses and want to hurt him. I want to protect myself from the hurt and not let him see that i am hurting. I will work really hard to never let this happen again. I believe I have succeeded in convincing him I was temporarily trying to be strong. He did express his concern over my revelation and said i was cold and it really bothered him that i felt that way. I immediately played it off as a momentary lapse of judgement and i’m merely going through stages of grief. Sat i played sad all day, and upon his prodding i expressed i was starting to realize what i was losing and was having a hard time understanding how it hard come to this. He in return has been very attentive, wanting to spend a ton of time together, and assuring me that he is just as sad as i am, only he doesn’t show it because he’s trying to be strong for me.

Up until last night, I had read and re-read all the things you ladies have written me. I have also researched the heck out of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Last night I watched the above videos, plus the first 20 in Dana's Red Flag series. Wow, oh my, wow. Ding, ding, ding....He has almost every red flag, and it is making me very nervous at just how potentially dangerous he could be. Everything that I couldn't understand before, like how our relationship could have gotten so bad so fast, when I wasn't seeing it as so. How he could just go from loving me more than life, to "we just aren't working out", in less than a year. I wish I could get the evidence that he has cheated more than I already know, but must remind myself that it doesn't matter in the long run. What does matter, is getting me and my daughter the heck out of there. I am more aware after watching those videos, how important it is to fake play that everything is status quo, and I am still hopeful for a reconciliation. Which I am not, heck no, cant believe I allowed myself to get duped by this guy. I believe up until last night, I was still hopeful this was not the case with us, or him, that he really did love me deep down...I am fully awake now, rest assured. I have made initial requests to the get my finances in order and view potential places to move. I am waiting on their responses. In the mean time, I will continue watching as many videos of Dana's as I can.

Hi, Yeah, I know what you mean, it does make you feel nervous around them and it's a shock for a while until you get your head round it. I even felt sorry and guilty for my dad sometimes. I try to guess what he might do next, not always obvious, but I think he'll probably try to make contact around birthdays, xmas etc. I don't give him any info, like where I go to uni- he'd probably turn up! You're doing good though, and the more you know and help your the better :-).

(Insert White Rabbit babble) Hey, don't panic - one sorry will do. LOL ("Okay-okay, gedoff me!" :-D) It's alright, I understand. Seriously. :-) Calm....Zen...."Ommmmmm....". This is not difficult, it just takes focus and 'counting to 10' (a lot), and dodging a few "Oy, wake up!" Bic biros flung from my desk to yours LOL. You've DONE the hard part already - un-wiring yourself (and it hurts!) from the Evil, drug-IV-ing Matrix, the rest just takes following simple instructions, even just doing something in the same VEIN as instructed, courtesy of getting into the attitude via this paradigm shift of yours (after all, there will be call for the odd improvisation, potentially). "I believe I have succeeded in convincing him I was temporarily trying to be strong. He did express his concern over my revelation and said i was cold and it really bothered him that i felt that way. I immediately played it off as a momentary lapse of judgement and i’m merely going through stages of grief. Sat i played sad all day, and upon his prodding i expressed i was starting to realize what i was losing and was having a hard time understanding how it hard come to this." I now reject your Sorry and hand you a Gold star! I read that and went, "Oohh-hoo-hoo-hoo-HOOO! Nice-ah ONE-ah!". There you go - see? Easy-peasy lemon-squeezy (= Lemonade). How do you feel for it? Empowered? That's the thing: 'Have to be a Narc to beat a Narc'. If you come to the battleground expecting a 'gentlemanly' arm-wrestle but he's got a machete - STUFF YOUR ARM, GRAB A BIGGER MACHETE. It's just logical. And stuff the taboos and inhibitions, this is an acting job. So treat it like one and forgive yourself ("ermaagheerd!") for being just as much as the rest of the population a (precocious, pretentious) naked ape as a spiritual being. Nice Girls and Guys finish last - ONLY IN LALA LAND. OKAY - DOWN TO BIZ (HOMEWORK): Your first stumbling block, highly common (too common...ach!), is losing your anger. (Normal Land, anger bad; LaLa Land, anger good....Opposites Day Land). The mind too easily forgets or loses sight of the bad stuff, the good stuff comes to the fore aaand you're immediately dumbed-down by sentimentality and (because he's not - ref machete) - done for...backsliding...staying for round 10, "ding-ding!"... yet another layer of skin flayed off you, more bruises, cuts, sprains. Because - ooooooh... if you dared even come CLOSE to showing you saw behind the mask and being the dumper, he'll have punishment in mind. HENCE - "I'm a Ba-rbie girl, in a Bar-bie wo-or-orld, you're fan-tastic, notremotely pla-stic...". Playing dumb. His ego will really like that, it won't be able to resist believing it over any logic or evidence (that's his greatest Achilles, wink-wink). They (both genders) are the original misogynists/misandrists that spread that infection ALL AROUND TOWN. So. Exercise: You're going to 'post' here his rap sheet. And then you're going to keep copying-pasting and adding to it as memory serves or new transgressions/insults land (with a slimy "SHHHLUP!") in your in-tray, so that we take it along the thread with us in order for you to instantly grab and snort yourself some damn fine top-up resolve wherever and whenever you need to, without scrolling-scrolling, going cross-eyed (ha-ha, that'd put him off! :-D) (wanna try?)... You can start by picking out the stuff you've already voiced your protest to ("how dare he..." etc) up there. Write it as angrily and otherwise emotionally as you like (asterisk any swear-words). Bullet point them but no need at this point to prioritise or chronologise. And be prepared to have a wee reaction (in writing is great) as you then get to see it 'all in one place'. ************* Second stage exercise: start being REALLY BORING... party bore.... "Yeah, so...I took the A21 and then, instead of the M35 exit I continued to the next exit and - you know where that roundabout with the grass is?..." or better yet, Barbie: "What do you think of my new mascara, is it 'fluttery' enough? I went out of my way to get it from Boots because there it was only £10.99 as opposed to £13.99 - let's just call it £14, yeah? - whereas I remembered your advise to spend less, oh and I got you this shower gel because, look, there are no parabens listed in the ingredients whereas your usual brand - look, read it!.....". You get the gist? They cannot STAND boredom because they already perpetually and pathologically and intrinsically are. Your toddler...prods and topples your fave vase with a defiant grin on his little face BECAUSE HE'S BORED. This one's just a big toddler, full-time in a bad, defiant mood. So he *will* try to "interesting you up" with some prods, but... "...and then I stopped at Asda...". Just don't. Let him think he's "Stepford-ed" you - AAAND OUT HE POPS, ONTO HUNTING DOWN THE NEXT VICTIM-SLAVE!". Giving you time and space. :-) ************* Meanwhile, back at the ranch: "He in return has been very attentive, wanting to spend a ton of time together, and assuring me that he is just as sad as i am, only he doesn’t show it because he’s trying to be strong for me." :-D :-D :-D How ice of him. That's fair enough, though. You hate him only you don't show it because you're trying to look strung for him. ************** "Up until last night, I had read and re-read all the things you ladies have written me. I have also researched the heck out of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Last night I watched the above videos, plus the first 20 in Dana's Red Flag series." Gold star. Now watch them all over again (and again) - get it really in there! That - added to your Rap Sheet - will be "good sh*t, maan". "Wow, oh my, wow. Ding, ding, ding....He has almost every red flag, and it is making me very nervous at just how potentially dangerous he could be." Only to the uneducated. :-) I mean - so's crossing the road aged 8 if you don't know your Highway Code. I SAID - you're here, you're safe already. It *is* fairly rare, though. Enjoy that 'ding-ding', you've earned it. Isn't the enlightenment wonderful? And, no, it indeed does not matter why the loon behaves like a loon because the only answer is BECAUSE HE'S A LOONY TUNE. Because he has wiring missing and duff wiring. Berbom. Try to think of him as a malprogrammed android. That ought to help. Because - devoid of so many human emotions bar a few icky and negative ones - that's precisely what he is, just in biological format. Berbom. Listen, sorry if you hum I'm A Barbie Girl rather a lot from now on but...in LaLa Land that is THE BEST song ever written! As is 'Tomorrow, tomorrow, I luv ya, tomorrow, you're always a day away' ("Oh, sorry, sweetiebooboos, I DO NOT KNOW! what's the matter with me lately, head's all over the place [no danger of me escaping...(not)], I'll do it tomorrow, I promise [secret smirk]"). "cant believe I allowed myself to get duped by this guy." Why not? If Robert Hare (Hare's Psychopathy Checklist) still gets duped when assessing for parole, why not you? What makes you so special? It's because you're human as well as a normal, healthy, very shining example. LaLa Land/Opposites Day: insult becomes compliment. There's no avoiding (unless you want to study REALLY deeply and for manymanymany years) (or borrow someone else's - BUT EVEN THEN!...). There is only escaping at the soonest opportunity you can muster and circumstantial elements and intelligent planning (A, B, C, D) can muster. That's it! Because: Normal Land: prevention is better than cure. LaLa Land: cure is better than prevention. (See how this rule works without exception? - use it...apply it when 'stuck'/confused.) Their egos don't get a boost from preying and victimising the weak and only inwardly non-special (except as part of an in-relationship 'excreta' or antagonism ploy). Too easy (yawn). They want to bring down your Arab stallions! ********* Next exercise (plan B): like when pregnant - pack a secret emergency bag for you (and daughter). Important docs, wad of cash, clothing, things of fiscal and sentimental value... Probably won't need it but it's GREAT for your mind to know it's there! Hide it anywhere he doesn't go and wouldn't think to look (washing machine? LOL) (jj). A friend (who doesn't like him's) house will do nicely. Alternatively, start to smuggle the contents over there in 'handfuls'. Do NOTHING that he could get wind of. And check your gadgets are all safe. And your car (tracker). "I am fully awake now, rest assured." Oh, I am. :-) I was from your first post (ketchup, baby tomato? ;-D). To err is human. "I have made initial requests to the get my finances in order and view potential places to move. I am waiting on their responses. In the mean time, I will continue watching as many videos of Dana's as I can." Excellente, Senora! Tip: "I'm a bit itchy down there. Are you? Must get to the doctor..." (and repeat...."TOMORROW, I LUV YA, TOMORROW..."). So that's TWO annoying tunes stuck in your head. Don't slip up by letting your ego out to play again, now, or there'll be three and it might just be Joe Dolce's 'Ah Shuddup you face'. (LOL, I'm laughing, that's the main thing.) Lastly but by no means leastly: ARE YOU HAVING FUN YET?

PS: Ladies? Lady. My own gender is unknown and that's the way it's staying. ************ Lily, you're bang-on a per! Yes, he will and, yes, he will. (We can go into more detail over on your thread if you like? And then you can re-spout it here if you need to. Plan?)

Yes, I apologize, I made a an assumption. It makes no difference what gender you identify with. Thank you Lily for your kind words. Rap Sheet ` Lovebombed me: He made sure to always be at the smoking spot whenever I was there, always complimented me on something, asked how my day was going, told me I was beautiful. By the second week of having smoke breaks together, he told me he loved me and never got over me. Sent me constant texts telling me he missed me, was thinking of me, sent me songs that reminded him of me, he snap chatted selfies, or pictures of what he was doing. Always texted me good morning and good night. Constant Contact: Was always in constant contact throughout the day. 6 months into the relationship, I was no longer getting constant texts and snaps, it had dwindled to maybe 2 or 3 text throughout the day, when I would mention this, he would play It off as him being busy, or we were living together so we didn't need to be texting all day. I would always feel silly for being concerned, and play it off as normal. In the first year, I was constantly told I was beautiful and he asked me to marry him every day. Constantly referred to me as his wife, and Mrs. (his surname). We were intimate at least once a day, if not more. fast moving: Insisted I move in less than 3 months after we started dating, and talked marriage, merging finances, always urging me to finalize divorce and cut all ties with Ex-Husband. (other than co-parenting, he was always supportive it keeping the co-parenting civil) He took a keen interest in helping to parent my daughter, took over home-work help. He was always bragging how he was helping her become a better student. This also included her karate classes, as he took karate when he was younger he felt he could help her best. Boisterous: He constantly bragged from day one, (he was always like this) about his accomplishments, how many trades tickets he has on his resume, how smart he is, how much he can remember, how hard of a worker he is, how great our relationship was, how great at sex he is, how big his penis is, how much money he makes. 2 months in he hosted a bonfire party he hosts every year. One girl who was seeing his roommate was there. He had previously told me and his roommate that this girl had expressed interest in him and they had gone for coffee months before we got together and he had told her he was with me and not interested. During the party he was quite intoxicated and I was noticing different interactions between them that made me uncomfortable. He often disappeared and I would have to go looking for him. That night he tucked in the roommate and the girlfriend as they were passed out. I felt he was downstairs too long, but tried to ignore the nagging feeling I had. This girl lost her phone that night. It was found outside the camper, she had also told the roommate that she was "fucked" (sorry about the language) that night outside the camper. E and the roommate said she was just trying to make him jealous, and that she was a proven liar. Hmmmm...this sent my spidy senses into overdrive and asked E if something had happened between himself and the girl. he said I was acting crazy and absolutely not. 10 months after we started dating, I came across his facebook and saw that he was FB poking the same girls off and on from Dec (5 1/2 months after we started dating) until end of April. I also looked at his snapchat and saw he was snapping a few of the same girls repeatedly. I saw one snap message and it said "good morning, how are you today." This really bothered me because, he used to send me that message every morning and no longer was. He noticed I was bothered by something, and dragged it out of me. He at first denied doing any flirting and poking someone on fb was not flirting, just saying hi. I insisted there was more, and after finally throwing evidence in his face of his snap chat activity he relented and finally admitted that he was flirting and just having conversations with these girls and the occasional selfie. he insisted that it never got to the point of anything remotely close to cheating and that he has an issue with wanting attention and he didn't know how to be a good boyfriend and he will prove to me he will change and be committed to me only. He expressed he couldn't bear losing me and to please give him another chance. I brought up the girl at the party again and again he insisted that nothing happened. A short time after this, I was still having a hard time accepting that this was the full truth and contacted the girl from the party. I expressed to her that I was having a hard time trusting E, and asked if she could tell me if anything had ever happened and did E give her the impression that he was flirting or trying to pick her up..Her response was that she did not want to get in the middle of anything and that I should listen to my gut instincts. Which I didn't!

Ha-ha - no, I didn't mean my own gender was unknown even to me! :-D No, it's just [1] being permanently on here, I'm far more at risk from identity-theft 'dossier-building', [2] it's nobody's business, [3] gender is immaterial in all of these issues: one is either a predominantly good person or predominantly bad/issue-ridden, badly behaved person, irrespective of which danglies they sport. Anyhoo, I'll be with you tomorrow as it's very late. Sorry - had to help Lily with something pressing. Plus I don't want you to go too fast, I want you to ruminate and reflect over the vast amounts you've learned, give it a chance to take root. (Psst! The last one's the real one. ;-D)

PS: If you've time, I'd particularly like you to re-read your rap-sheet because once those crimes are fully formed at the forefront, now re-contextualised, your mind will be free or triggered into grabbing for more, meaning, you might find many more memories rushing in that then get put through that wonderfully restorative wash cycle.

Here are my own comments, observations and explanations: "Lovebombed me: He made sure to always be at the smoking spot whenever I was there, always complimented me on something, asked how my day was going, told me I was beautiful. By the second week of having smoke breaks together, he told me he loved me and never got over me. Sent me constant texts telling me he missed me, was thinking of me, sent me songs that reminded him of me, he snap chatted selfies, or pictures of what he was doing. Always texted me good morning and good night." By the second week. Of having, not even actual dates but mere SMOKING BREAKS. He tells you he loves you and never got over you. Is that why he failed in all the interim years to be constantly attempting to find out where you were to get in contact with you? Did no-one tell him about Friends Reunited etc? What a crock. To him, you or any woman are just chocolate. Hence why it's so easy for him to lately start 'dangling the baby (chocolate bar) over the edge of the 1000ft cliff drop'. Loads chocolate out there, can always get more. Be a bit annoying to have to change brands, granted. But chocolate's chocolate, you don't mind really cos you like all types and you've willingly switched brands many a time anyway. Gets boring eating the one same brand all the time. [puke] I expect what made it believable was the fact he'd been in pursuit all those years back. But note: Never got over you. Normals say that with the the orthodox meaning in mind. His version meant, HIS EGO never got over you....which evidence you've been seeing for yourself, or, otherwise, how come a guy who's spent SO MANY years hankering after you would, a short time into having "FINALLY, OH JOY!" got you, start behaving in ways that could do nothing but kick the love out of you? We know the answer, don't we - he got you hooked on Love Heroin and then started to intermittently withhold the drug because this is basically what your sex slavers do to keep the women in-line and under control, it's common knowledge (- yeah, but you don't expect a 'normal' man on the street to do it!). Normals love with their hearts (attach then bond). Cluster Bs don't have one; if they love you it's purely with their egos (surface attachment). "Constant Contact: Was always in constant contact throughout the day. 6 months into the relationship, I was no longer getting constant texts and snaps, it had dwindled to maybe 2 or 3 text throughout the day, when I would mention this, he would play It off as him being busy, or we were living together so we didn't need to be texting all day. I would always feel silly for being concerned, and play it off as normal." Constant Contact : Isolation, parte un....Isolation which tends to feel nice, and flattering, and which you don't expect isolation attempts to do. You assume the normal - that it's because they're crazy about you (because that's all it could be for a normal). Really, it's to monitor your every movement; commandeer your every moment to ensure you can't fall prey to another other men or narcs because even WHEN you're not stuck for hours on-end on the phone or emailing with them, they've created in you a habit of thinking about them - usually *having* to think about them because they said something that later strikes as odd! - almost 24/7, meaning, constantly distracted and not really plugged-in thus unaware of any male 'eye advances' or not listening to and taking on-board friends' warning advice properly. You've also less time and/or energy to see your friends and family, hence less opportunities for counteractive feedback or 'stocking up' on enough normal interaction with which to feel a contrast and detect abnormalities. If shoved into one room enough, especially if it seems exceptionally nice in there, we adapt. And then, yes, they suddenly withdraw the Love Heroin and get any degree of annoyed when you object to the fact that the very expectation THEY created in you fails suddenly to get sustained-ly and properly met. Suddenly 'you're too greedy' or 'unreasonable', 'insecure'/whatever, not 'they're neglectful' in the context of the pattern they deliberately set in stone. From then on, you're prevented from or being punished for having the emotional reactions that they're simultaneously, deliberately creating in you, on top of which, if you persist in complaining of deprivation - you're either/both roared/shredded into submissive silence or manipulated into feeling sorry for them- FOR THEM. Outrageous and infuriating, isn't it. Gross Unfairness--Injustice....something that's particularly (negatively) engaging for an habitually very moral and conscientious type. New mantra: mirror them. This means: He steps forward (enough times to prove it real), YOU step forward. He steps back, YOU step back (whether it might be real or might not). If you step back and he wants you forward again - he knows what to do (gosh, isn't life a bleedin' mystery). "In the first year, I was constantly told I was beautiful and he asked me to marry him every day." Wow, he was in a hurry, wasn't he! With the benefit of hindsight and sobering-up, do you think you know why? But - yup. Mere players (normal but over-self-protective blokes having been 'sold' Narc methods) are mostly all just hot air but no actions or patently woefully-inadequate ones. However, your Narc knows to do the sustained actions as well so that, no matter if in the beginning you were thinking 'Yeah, yeah, lay it on thick, why don't you?', this constant, long-lasting repetition takes you to where you start to lose your cynicism ...then skepticism...to BEYOND convinced and prematurely removing your bog-standard, requisite suit of armour because to keep it on NOW FEELS PETTY AND PERSECUTION-COMPLEXED, not to mention mistrusting all the way to downright paranoid. It'd be tantamount to saying to your boss at Year 2 point, 'Hah, I don't believe you've really hired me or want me to stay here for the duration of my career!'. He'd come back with, 'Are you mad?!'. So deeply do they convince you that by the time they slowly, increasingly start emotionally then psychologically slapping, kicking, even punching you, that belief is still too deeply set to be broken. Hence the ensuing massive confusion and eventual 'He loves me, he loves me not, he loves me...oh god, does he?, which?, what the eff, I just don't know any more - no, wait, no man who didn't love me would do THAT...so he does!....no, wait, no man who loves me would do that, NO WAY...so he doesn't!...'. This - being for too long unable to settle on such an important, welfare and life quality-dictating and -affecting belief - at least merely a PREDOMINANT belief - is very bad for one's brain, atop the going into Fight or Flight mode with its release of 'at war' chemicals being abnormally too often. Very. Particularly *as* you're not just that whole time saying 'I couldn't say either way'. It's the "Ping-Ponging"....loves me, loves me not, HATES ME!, no, loves me, no, just likes me,.... Enough of that and it starts to occur to you, This boy's got serious problems, in fact, I think I'm dating a mental patient. Sensing it, that's when they do another, but more lengthily sustained Love Bombing spell. Effectively, it's like you fall to the floor, bloodied, and they pick you up, administer healing (magic) honey all over, and then when you're fit enough - start on-off attacking you all over again. (Human Ten Pin Bowling, anyone?) Set you up - kick you down. Set you up - kick you down. Repeat, repeat... After enough of that, even if you're a warrior type, you think, Why bother getting up? "Constantly referred to me as his wife, and Mrs. (his surname). Yup, he was definitely 'against the clock', look. 'We were intimate at least once a day, if not more.' FYI, their sperm contains mucho Oxytocin (to add to your own). It's the bonding hormone. But in this context: Supaglue. Now you know that, nevernevernevernever sleep with someone so soon again. Ever. It's literally dangerous, Jim, just not as we know it. "fast moving: Insisted I move in less than 3 months after we started dating, and talked marriage, merging finances," There it is. That last one. "always urging me to finalize divorce and cut all ties with Ex-Husband. (other than co-parenting, he was always supportive it keeping the co-parenting civil)" Ex-husband might have given you his honest observations and feedback (just because he was a banker as well, doesn't mean he can't criticise someone else). Sounds like you 'progressed' from a Covert/Passive-Aggressive to an Overt "Combo Man" (- Sandra M Brown's label in 'How To Avoid Dating an Emotionally Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved). But then, this boy didn't give you time and space to grieve aka RECOVER, including your swollen eyelids and full vision. He wanted you quick, while you were still dizzy and 'concussed'. "He took a keen interest in helping to parent my daughter, took over home-work help. He was always bragging how he was helping her become a better student. This also included her karate classes, as he took karate when he was younger he felt he could help her best." Rely on me, depend on me...until you get used to X, Y and Z jobs being mine. Because then you'll plug those gaps, MEANING, the thought of breaking it off will feel too overly daunting because now you'll be faced - during heartbreak, i.e. while in a heap on the floor - with having to do X, Y, Z *and* T, U, V. Or you'll have lost the knack. I call it Kittenifying. "Boisterous: He constantly bragged from day one, (he was always like this) about his accomplishments, how many trades tickets he has on his resume, how smart he is, how much he can remember, how hard of a worker he is, how great our relationship was, how great at sex he is, how big his penis is, how much money he makes." Yawn (yes, dear). I expect you were too constantly tipsy to care that much that he had this tedious side to him. Well, anyway - at least we can tell he's definitely Overt and Grandiose. (Anyway, it's not length, it's girth. And what you cam do with it. :-p And what's attached to it, LOL. Plus, there's no such thing as 'good in bed', same as Torville is nothing without Dean and vice-versa...or what was he saying - that he's an incredible w***er? THAT, we believe! LOL. PS: Here's my retort to 'Are you good in bed?': Yup, I go straight to sleep and don't drop crumbs. You?') Bet it was all BS and he never did karate lessons in his life. (Ugh, I'm starting to feel surrounded by slime, just reading him.) "2 months in he hosted a bonfire party he hosts every year. One girl who was seeing his roommate was there. He had previously told me and his roommate that this girl had expressed interest in him" Gosh, how helpful of him when most people would want to hide it or better yet, tackle and kill it. Bet she hadn't - Opposites Land - he had expressed an interest IN HER (- knickers, bank balance/spare cash, social/biz contacts, sex, admiration/whatever). "and they had gone for coffee months before we got together and he had told her he was with me and not interested." That's what I do when not interested: go regularly for coffee with them. I find it works beautifully [puke]. New in-situ, out-loud mantra: Oh yeah? Prove it. "During the party he was quite intoxicated" They love to get intoxicated/pretend-intoxicated because it's a great excuse for behaving badly. "and I was noticing different interactions between them that made me uncomfortable. He often disappeared and I would have to go looking for him. That night he tucked in the roommate and the girlfriend as they were passed out. I felt he was downstairs too long, but tried to ignore the nagging feeling I had. This girl lost her phone that night. It was found outside the camper, she had also told the roommate that she was "f**ked" (sorry about the language)" (It's okay - in fact, it's good! - just asterisk it like I've just done, but - OH, DID SHE!) "...that night outside the camper. E and the roommate said she was just trying to make him jealous," Ah-hah! They're both Narcs and teamed-up to 'kill two birds'. "and that she was a proven liar. Hmmmm...this sent my **spidy senses into overdrive and asked E if something had happened between himself and the girl. he said I was acting crazy and absolutely not. (**Ha-ha, can tell you watched Dana!) Crazy is *without* actual basis. New in-situ mantra (unless they're violent with it): You wish. "10 months after we started dating, I came across his facebook and saw that he was FB poking the same girls off and on from Dec (5 1/2 months after we started dating) until end of April." That he started this usual crud so early, tells me one of two things: [a] that he could already sense he'd bitten off more than he could chew and had better have Lilypad 2, 3, 4 at the ready, just in case; [b] that he felt safe and cocky already. (I imagine it was B, given the daily 'marry mes'... not so much Love-Bombing as full-on Hiroshima!) "I also looked at his snapchat and saw he was snapping a few of the same girls repeatedly. I saw one snap message and it said "good morning, how are you today." This really bothered me because, he used to send me that message every morning and no longer was." How did you get to see? Easy, was it? But anyway - there was an excerpt from the script. (FYI, most get their ideas of how to pretend they have a heart/are interested enough to woo...FROM THE TELLY. You'll want to watch 'Jim Carey's' Cable Guy again, I imagine? And The Trueman Show.) "He noticed"... Because he was expecting. Because he'd deliberately set it up ("Shock time!"). And made that breadcrumb trail BIG. ..."I was bothered by something, and dragged it out of me." Ooh, determined, was he? "He at first denied doing any flirting and poking someone on fb was not flirting, just saying hi." It's less the what and more the who and the when..and where and how, isn't it. Anyway, INTENTION is what decides that. Anyway - again, that's what I do when I want to keep X whereas Y means very little to me and my life in comparison: dangle X over a cliff in order to heartily defend Y [retch]. "I insisted there was more, and after finally throwing evidence in his face of his snap chat activity he relented and finally admitted that he was flirting and just having conversations with these girls and the occasional selfie." What - of his superior d**k? "he insisted that it never got to the point of anything remotely close to cheating" *You'll* be the judge of that! And then the rest of healthy society. Cheating: giving/taking/partaking/doing anything to A N Other that comes within the exclusive territory of your lover. He was cheating - fact. He may have lingered around the first quarter mile of that 5-mile path but ON IT, WHEN HE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN, SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE SLIGHTEST INCLINATION TO - HE WAS. Boundary revision: If a man puts more effort or every effort into defending his act and/or the other party more than or instead of saving his relationship with you and ability to continue knowing you, it's a Dealbreaker. Some of us would rather stick needles in our eyes than ever have the evidence IN OUR FACE that we're a secret sh*tbag. Some of us find just thinking about it, even for a nano-second, shocking and abhorrent all the way to unconscionable and utter lunacy. May as well just squat naked, taking a runny dump in the middle of Leicester Square on a Saturday lunchtime before rolling around in it, and be done with it! "and that he has an issue with wanting attention" One of those rare truths but twisted out of all shape to his advantage. Ultimately, it just says, DO MORE WORSHIPPING AND PANDERING OR THE PUPPY GETS IT!... which relies on you being capable of finding the (cough) hidden evidence. INNIT. The warning then becomes: The puppy will most likely get it WITHOUT WARNING AND TIME TO PREPARE (unless you're lucky enough to find the evidence in-time again)! Walking On Eggshells. "and he didn't know how to be a good boyfriend" Well, bloody resign, then! Let some other man who does, have a chance! What were you doing applying in the first place, then! But they don't. Because they're loons. And loons don't work right. "and he will prove to me he will change and be committed to me only." Awww, poor him-him-him. You gotta feel sorry for him, doncha? [projectile-vomit] "He expressed he couldn't bear losing me and to please give him another chance." New mantra: I couldn't bear losing you is as I couldn't bear losing you *does* - and never STOPS doing! "I brought up the girl at the party again and again he insisted that nothing happened." Well, he would, wouldn't he. It's either: [a] verbal expression X meets behavioural expression Y (mwack-mwaack!) or [b] vice versa. That's the point: to hand you the two things that should fit and which you badly need to fit, but won't/can't. "A short time after this, I was still having a hard time accepting that this was the full truth and contacted the girl from the party. I expressed to her that I was having a hard time trusting E, and asked if she could tell me if anything had ever happened and did E give her the impression that he was flirting or trying to pick her up..Her response was that she did not want to get in the middle of anything and that I should listen to my gut instincts. Which I didn't!" So what? You were drunk as a skunk! That's how it works (you're normal). If at that point you HAD listened, I would have wondered if there'd been something badly wrong with you! It's no different to me yawning and you failing to be infected and yawn back, or me shoving sneezing powder up your nostrils and you not sneezing, or hitting your bent knee with a rubber mallet and your knee staying stock still. (Sarge? We've got a duff one, here!) You work normally, you're a fully working model. You react right to correct incoming and react right to incorrect incoming. Normal reactions to abnormal behaviour. Plus nobody drummed into you, let alone merely told you, 'They're not like in the films; most of them aren't even killers and aren't banged-up - they're bloody everywhere (Care In The Community!). So while you're doing your normal Prospective Mate test-driving, do remember to do an entirely separate, simultaneous test-drive for a Prospective Psychopath, won't you, i.e. date TWO blokes!'. You did that and you'd have self-created Cognitive Dissonance all on your own! Nope, you're normal. If HE'D been normal, every little thing you did would have worked BEAUTIFULLY (ignoring the fact you wouldn't have had call to do them to begin with, of course). AAAANYHOO... that was a great dispassionate account. Now can I hear your teeth gnashing as you recall other incidents (having emptied your mind a little)? For example: since you've been with him, has anything gone wrong or missing or been broken, has he tried to dictate how you look or dress, tried to get you to do things or sex acts that ordinarily you wouldn't?...anything at all that discombobulated, annoyed, upset, basically sent you off-balance? You also didn't tell me how many out of the last 10 arguments he kept his cool as opposed to not? PS: I despise your boyfriend, he makes me want to vomit. All over him. That's good, too. PPS: GOD, he's thick! Or pretends to be. In which case - GOD, he's thick! He's not got a big d**k, he *is* a big d**k. That's what got him confused, I imagine. When he looked in the mirror, I mean. PPPS: His new name on here is henceforth to be: ....? My own suggestion is E-vil. Likey? Or what about ET for 'e's thick'? (- easy to type?) Or can you think of a better one?

BTW - new mantra for everyone: They swoop when you're down. Down: miserable, lonely, out of normal place, or need something(s). So if you're down - even a smidgen - stay away from the mating grounds until you're not. Even if you think you're SO not into the idea of dating anyone that no try-it-on merchant could possibly get anywhere with you. Because some men (and women) know how to get you changing your mind, often without even realising it or remembering that you'd vowed not to. "Ah, but this is different because...". Because he's a natural-born or learned "brain spaghettifier" using sleight of hand. Any brain. A brain's a brain.

Arguments: We started having more arguments around the same time renovations were taking place. They started off as just bantering back and forth, I mostly laughed them off. E started expressing his unhappiness about the amounts of arguments we were having, I felt they were not as bad as he was saying. The arguments slowly started escalating to him yelling at me, mostly comments like, fine, do what you want, you always get your way, or your going to do it your way anyway. I was very upset by these comments, as I felt like that wasn't me. I always gave my opinion, but never discarded his and proceeded as I wanted. We would always end up having heated conversations about the disagreement and every time he would bring up something else that was bothering him, that either I was doing or my kids were doing, or just him dealing with my stuff. My daughter graduated in June from high school. We attended her graduation ceremony together and went for supper with her. That night E told me how hard it was for him, and that he was dealing with a lot of emotions because he was feeling like he was losing out on the experience as a father. He said he didn't want to bother me with his feelings during the day because I should enjoy it and be proud of my daughter. He told me he is facing a decision to either stay with me (the love of his life, and never be a father) or become a father and possibly not be in love with the mother of his child. This was when I clued in to the fact that our relationship could actually be in trouble. I gave him space as he asked for in figuring out this issue. The arguments got closer together, he would be annoyed with something I did or didn't do or with my daughter. A lot of times he would say I said certain things during the argument, or in a snotty way. I couldn't remember saying these things, and often took extra care not to sound rude or snotty. But in the end, he was always reacting to my outbursts. Or that is how he made me feel.

Rap Sheet ` Lovebombed me: He made sure to always be at the smoking spot whenever I was there, always complimented me on something, asked how my day was going, told me I was beautiful. By the second week of having smoke breaks together, he told me he loved me and never got over me. Sent me constant texts telling me he missed me, was thinking of me, sent me songs that reminded him of me, he snap chatted selfies, or pictures of what he was doing. Always texted me good morning and good night. Constant Contact: Was always in constant contact throughout the day. 6 months into the relationship, I was no longer getting constant texts and snaps, it had dwindled to maybe 2 or 3 text throughout the day, when I would mention this, he would play It off as him being busy, or we were living together so we didn't need to be texting all day. I would always feel silly for being concerned, and play it off as normal. In the first year, I was constantly told I was beautiful and he asked me to marry him every day. Constantly referred to me as his wife, and Mrs. (his surname). We were intimate at least once a day, if not more. fast moving: Insisted I move in less than 3 months after we started dating, and talked marriage, merging finances, always urging me to finalize divorce and cut all ties with Ex-Husband. (other than co-parenting, he was always supportive it keeping the co-parenting civil) He took a keen interest in helping to parent my daughter, took over home-work help. He was always bragging how he was helping her become a better student. This also included her karate classes, as he took karate when he was younger he felt he could help her best. Boisterous: He constantly bragged from day one, (he was always like this) about his accomplishments, how many trades tickets he has on his resume, how smart he is, how much he can remember, how hard of a worker he is, how great our relationship was, how great at sex he is, how big his penis is, how much money he makes. 2 months in he hosted a bonfire party he hosts every year. One girl who was seeing his roommate was there. He had previously told me and his roommate that this girl had expressed interest in him and they had gone for coffee months before we got together and he had told her he was with me and not interested. During the party he was quite intoxicated and I was noticing different interactions between them that made me uncomfortable. He often disappeared and I would have to go looking for him. That night he tucked in the roommate and the girlfriend as they were passed out. I felt he was downstairs too long, but tried to ignore the nagging feeling I had. This girl lost her phone that night. It was found outside the camper, she had also told the roommate that she was "fucked" (sorry about the language) that night outside the camper. E and the roommate said she was just trying to make him jealous, and that she was a proven liar. Hmmmm...this sent my spidy senses into overdrive and asked E if something had happened between himself and the girl. he said I was acting crazy and absolutely not. 10 months after we started dating, I came across his facebook and saw that he was FB poking the same girls off and on from Dec (5 1/2 months after we started dating) until end of April. I also looked at his snapchat and saw he was snapping a few of the same girls repeatedly. I saw one snap message and it said "good morning, how are you today." This really bothered me because, he used to send me that message every morning and no longer was. He noticed I was bothered by something, and dragged it out of me. He at first denied doing any flirting and poking someone on fb was not flirting, just saying hi. I insisted there was more, and after finally throwing evidence in his face of his snap chat activity he relented and finally admitted that he was flirting and just having conversations with these girls and the occasional selfie. he insisted that it never got to the point of anything remotely close to cheating and that he has an issue with wanting attention and he didn't know how to be a good boyfriend and he will prove to me he will change and be committed to me only. He expressed he couldn't bear losing me and to please give him another chance. I brought up the girl at the party again and again he insisted that nothing happened. A short time after this, I was still having a hard time accepting that this was the full truth and contacted the girl from the party. I expressed to her that I was having a hard time trusting E, and asked if she could tell me if anything had ever happened and did E give her the impression that he was flirting or trying to pick her up..Her response was that she did not want to get in the middle of anything and that I should listen to my gut instincts. Which I didn't! Arguments: We started having more arguments around the same time renovations were taking place. They started off as just bantering back and forth, I mostly laughed them off. E started expressing his unhappiness about the amounts of arguments we were having, I felt they were not as bad as he was saying. The arguments slowly started escalating to him yelling at me, mostly comments like, fine, do what you want, you always get your way, or your going to do it your way anyway. I was very upset by these comments, as I felt like that wasn't me. I always gave my opinion, but never discarded his and proceeded as I wanted. We would always end up having heated conversations about the disagreement and every time he would bring up something else that was bothering him, that either I was doing or my kids were doing, or just him dealing with my stuff. My daughter graduated in June from high school. We attended her graduation ceremony together and went for supper with her. That night E told me how hard it was for him, and that he was dealing with a lot of emotions because he was feeling like he was losing out on the experience as a father. He said he didn't want to bother me with his feelings during the day because I should enjoy it and be proud of my daughter. He told me he is facing a decision to either stay with me (the love of his life, and never be a father) or become a father and possibly not be in love with the mother of his child. This was when I clued in to the fact that our relationship could actually be in trouble. I gave him space as he asked for in figuring out this issue. The arguments got closer together, he would be annoyed with something I did or didn't do or with my daughter. A lot of times he would say I said certain things during the argument, or in a snotty way. I couldn't remember saying these things, and often took extra care not to sound rude or snotty. But in the end, he was always reacting to my outbursts. Or that is how he made me feel.

Out of the last 10 arguments he probably lost his cool 5/10. This is where I am having a hard time understanding. I haven't felt like our "arguments" were bad. Mostly disagreements in my opinion, but he would end up yelling and getting mad 5 out of the 10 times. Each time we would have an argument, he would express his unhappiness over the fact that we are always fighting, and not happy like we used to be. And how he doesn't want to be in a relationship like this. This weekend he has decided that he is starting to fall in love with me again. That he doesn't think our story is over, and he is very optimistic that we will find each other again once we have healed. In an attempt to prove that he is trust worthy and being "good", he showed me his snapchat. I observed that he was still chatting with a girl that he had two days previously told me he didn't know who she was. He also told me, that she had just told him that she deleted him for her friends and family. I didn't really understand what he was saying and went to bed that night. We awoke early to go hunting the next morning, and I saw this girl had added him back to snapchat and was messaging him. I relayed this info, and when he checked, I saw what she wrote and she said, " Because" He responded because what,you said this was for your friends and family. Her response was, " because it hurts too much, and something about an amazing friend." I couldn't make sense of any of it, and told him that it was all very weird. Why would she feel the need to delete, how would it benefit her friends and family, who feels like you are such an amazing friend? He said he figured it was his x, and that she is crazy. Hmmm, I figured.

Thanks for that! I'll respond tomorrow.

Hey-hey! 1. Ninety-five percent of the time, those arguments are nothing of the sort. They're believable, thus mentally acceptable contrivances for top-up bullying (you open up your mind, he can then put his fist in and wound or addle it). To basically beat your mind up (only the physical kind is easy to prove and prosecute over, see? There *is* method in their madness, only the aim is completely lunatic and destructive). Usually, you've disagreed with something, or stated a preference that isn't his, as is any relationship partner's right to, which, with any normal, healthy bloke, wouldn't even require raised voices and could get sorted in five minutes flat. That's why nothing they say makes sense. Because the so-called crime you committed or the so-called issue he's all-of-a-sudden found intolerable and is getting all gee-ed up to (not), didn't happen. And you can prove it. And he can't have that or the argument would be over too soon. And he needs time to beat you up and/or exhaust you into submission (marathon arguments) because you've somehow in some way stuck up for yourself, asserted your rights, not done exactly what he wants, how he wants, when he wants. So - he duffs you up to shut you up into taking his crap. If ever his issue is *real* (albeit, more to do with his own bad attitude), he still makes evil lemonade out of those demonic lemons by using what should be a mere discussion or gentle debate as a fortuitous opportunity to maintain your state of (now low-grade) traumatisation and exhaustion. Daren't argue/Can't argue. (Do you think Aimsley Harriot would be interested in that version? LOL) The trauma you feel - everything you feel inside after one of these full-on, marathon or overly intense 'arguments' where he's in various ways shown you such loathing or just basically treated you (which is shocking enough) like someone he doesn't even like, let alone respect - you wonder if you'd instantaneously and imperceptibly slipped into some utterly nightmare-ish parallel universe - this overall sensation is exactly how you would feel (bar the physical wounds in that scenario...or maybe not if the Narc is a batterer as well) had some unknown attacker beaten you up badly for-real on the street. Or if you'd just run through a real-live war zone with bullets and bombs flying all around. Even when the argument's over, it can take the victim up to 2 weeks to actually, properly recover. READY FOR THE NEXT ATTACK! ...Unless in the interim you've been a good little slave and buttoned your lip (and folded things how *he* likes them folded)....etc.... Extended over time, this constant nervousness, jumpiness, state of angst, etc., of yours develops into exactly what front-line combat staff and soldiers end up with after going to war. Only war isn't aimed personally at one specific soldier. Yours is. So you've got worse than PTSD. You've got Complex - CPTSD. The majority of soldiers who've been through war have it easier than victims of a Malignant Narcissist/Cluster B merchant. Theirs is more intense but yours goes on for far longer. I want you to get angry. Come on. You've been buttoning your lip FOR HOW LONG?! Feel free. 2. You did not sound snotty or anything. And - look how desperate he was for something to make something over! All he could come up with was you sounding snotty! Saint LABRNR. :-) You did NOTHING wrong outside of normal stuff that no-one usually minds or ignores (for the sake of all your positives). This is the one type of human-to-(er)-human relationship where, due to co-creativity being impossible or negligible (you need a semblance of equality for that!), you can hand-on-heart say to yourself and everyone you know: That "bobbing-bowl of diarrhoea with one very elusive Morischino Cherry floating on the top" relationship was all his doing, he made things bad then ruined is/us and I was powerless to stop it or I'd either get mentally beaten-up quite horrifically and/or mentally starved or mentally force-fed rotten food or mentally shoved in the fridge for hours...days.... or all three. Right Qualities (Yours) WRONG RECIPIENT. If all he could think of to grab and lob at your head was you sounding "a bit snotty" then, missus - DON'T EVER TOUCH THAT DIAL! Normal, healthy, emotionally-mature blokes (ones that chase only things genuinely worth having) would have thought they'd died and gone to heaven to have had a woman like you with such an incredibly attractive heart. No wonder Narcipoos wanted to bring you down. What an achievement. *Fail* :-p When you leave him, you're going to start soaring! He's going to slip further down his own plughole...the one he that whole time tried to drag you along into so as to use your body to get traction thus make his and his only escape. This is how it goes. Unless a woman doesn't know that and lets the grieving path get the better of her...by failing to 100% cease all contact 100% of the way. Cold Turkey. Basically. But, once you've had a bit of time to get used to it, it's the best, most enjoyable damn Cold Turkey on the planet! Anyway, the arguments went up because he was (Devalue) getting you nicely dizzy and not plugged-in, ready for his attempt to find his second harem member. Ike Turner tried to do this to Tina. He had three mistresses living 24/7 in the house with poor Tina. "Do it or the puppy gets it again!". I imagine he criticised Tina's mothering capabilities, too. AND spoiled her entire 'proud mother occasion' just before bedtime. They love to spoil special occasions. [1] They hate and majorly resent the fact of your or everyone's attention not being on them and [2] it's *particularly* shocking (thus effective bullying-maintenance) to the system if you hit the pavement from as far up as Cloud 9. They can top-up bully you to last MONTHS (they're nothing if not lazy-minded). So if you're in any way showing even a smidgen of a return of strength or sassiness, they either shut you up with their mental fists or, if you seem strong enough to take it, lick you back into submission (activating the IV of Love Heroin into your brain). "Come here, my gorgeous, beautiful darling.............get comfy enough to settle and get dreamy [injects Heroin].....thaaat's it, shhh................so that I can re-beat you up and keep you better in line from now on, you stupid, dumb b*tch!". Utter lunacy. As well, their reason for doing it is utter lunacy. "Out of the last 10 arguments he probably lost his cool 5/10. This is where I am having a hard time understanding. I haven't felt like our "arguments" were bad. Mostly disagreements in my opinion, but he would end up yelling and getting mad 5 out of the 10 times." "Each time we would have an argument, he would express his unhappiness over the fact that we are always fighting, and not happy like we used to be. And how he doesn't want to be in a relationship like this." "This weekend he has decided that he is starting to fall in love with me again. That he doesn't think our story is over, and he is very optimistic that we will find each other again once we have healed." 3. But does that mean five times out of the 10 he conducted his side of the "argument" rationally, reasonably, respectfully, etc, and no-one got hurt or left dissatisfied or gagged, least of all you? Never mind anyway. Because losing your cool and yelling and raging, to the point where your girlfriend is shaken and disturbed, EVEN THE ONCE is abhorrently unacceptable and a Dealbreaker (unless you're too drunk to execute it). ONCE. But HALF OF ALL ARGUMENTS? ****HE WANTS YOU TO GET CONFUSED AND HAVE TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING**** If you're confused, you're split-minded. And a half-mind cannot make the decision of a whole mind (to leave or cease tolerating). It does not make sense and add up, to say you hate arguing, the inference being that you find them overly negatively affecting, but then behave the opposite by single-handedly doing and behaving in ways that could only exacerbate them into MEGA-arguments! He's lying. He loves the argu- OPPORTUNITIES TO DUFF YOU UP. But if you get too clear and clever for him - i.e. sober/drug-free, he'll switch to "being nice"...more like "old him", giving you a shot of the Honeymoon Heroin again. This is all he's doing. They all do it. 4. "In an attempt to prove that he is trust worthy and being "good", he showed me his snapchat." What, the one he's had time to doctor or contrive or manufacture? "I observed that he was still chatting with a girl that he had two days previously told me he didn't know who she was. He also told me, that she had just told him that she deleted him for her friends and family. I didn't really understand what he was saying and went to bed that night." See how he's saying his reason for showing you is to prove his trusworthiness when really, secretly, it's to duff you up again, through the hurtful evidence you get to 'find'? "We awoke early to go hunting the next morning, and I saw this girl had added him back to snapchat and was messaging him." You were meant to see. He's doing Julio Iglesias with his mouth and surface demeanour (acting) while under the table is kicking you painfully in the shins and knees with his hobnail boots. "I relayed this info," You were supposed to (manipulation). "and when he checked" He didn't even need to (gaslighting). "I saw what she wrote and she said, " Because". He responded because what,you said this was for your friends and family. Her response was, " because it hurts too much, and something about an amazing friend." I couldn't make sense of any of it," Because there's contextual data you weren't privy to (e.g. the prior conversation section) or he's deleted bits maybe. The point is he shouldn't be texting this woman or any woman when he knows it upsets- awww, stuff it - that's what a normal, healthy bloke shouldn't and wouldn't be doing. But it's what you expect, is the point. Set to expect...knocked down (a higher, more painful fall than from zero expectation). And the other point is: you having a mystery to occupy your mind (Over-Distraction, anyone?). "and told him that it was all very weird. Why would she feel the need to delete, how would it benefit her friends and family, who feels like you are such an amazing friend? He said he figured it was his x, and that she is crazy. Hmmm, I figured." Good. And next time it'll (i.e. you'll) have progressed from Hmmm to UGH!, WHADDA W***ER! :-) ************** So what moniker have you come up with for him, beginning with E? And how are you feeling at this juncture?

UPDATE: sorry for the hiatus. Its been a rough couple of weeks. I am officially moved out and in my own place. During the last 3 weeks, I found the proof I needed to prove he was lying and cheating. I confronted him and gave him one more chance to be honest and come clean. Obviously he didn't do that. He claims he removed that memory from his mind, as it hurt him so much that he had betrayed me and he felt disgusted in himself. He claims all the lies, were all to protect me from being hurt by his stupidity. At first it was remorse, then it moved briefly into anger, and now he has had an epiphany. He feels that all the lies are out, and he realizes that he was wrong and messed up big time and is taking the correct steps to fix his issues and prove to me that he can be faithful and honest. He claims he loves me and knows we are amazing together and we can overcome all of this and be happy. The daddy issue is now also gone, as he claims he has realized as long as he has me he doesn't need to be a biological father. (same thing he told me in the beginning) he has been talking to a counselor who he claims is helping him to see all the demons he has and how to correct his behavior. he claims he went into depression after the miscarriage and instead of talking to me, he tried to deal on his own and ended up making more of a mess. I told him, I need time to figure out what I want. That, my feelings for him have changed as a result of his behavior and I do not trust him at all. I do not trust that he can faithful, but more importantly I do not trust that what he says is how he is really feeling, or is it, just what he feels he wants in the moment. He tried for two weeks to convince me to remain his girlfriend, but still move out and work on our relationship at the same time. I realize this is what he needs for himself to not worry about who Im with or what Im doing. So that's where I am at.

Hi! Bear with a little longer - will post tomorrow.

"UPDATE: sorry for the hiatus. Its been a rough couple of weeks. I am officially moved out and in my own place." Are you? 'Gnnnnnnnn!....' (Impressed!) "During the last 3 weeks, I found the proof I needed to prove he was lying and cheating." May the viewers at home know what it was, please? And - I'm sorry. :-( It's the worst relationship crime there is. My opinion of it, is that it's attempted murder, just a psychological and slower-acting (to distance thus disassociate themselves from the event to escape prosecution) instead of physical-instantaneous. If you die by having your personality - the thinking-feeling "You" - killed or die from having your body killed, what's the difference? The psychological version is in fact worse because you become an empty shell, just going through the mechanical motions. A sleepwalker. Neither dead nor alive. But without a corpse, how do you punish them through a legal system wherein (as yet) the phenomenon is neither recognised nor geared for addressing? Domestic Crime. A crime committed behind closed doors. They don't say what crime. But we know. From mugging through enslavement and torture to murder. Well, the good news is, they're in the midst, now, of trying and are making slow-but-steady progress. The very worst thing a mammal can have done to them is be love-starved by someone assuming the position of a lover but then very confusingly refuse to fulfil the role. Put another way, the very worst thing a mammal can have done to them is appoint a secretary but receive so little typing as to be negligible or be typed for, only for them to however soon afterwards rip it all to shreds. And then blame you. Due to the fact it's not true, you have the COMPULSION to fix but no clue how nor means/tools (because you can't fix a fault that doesn't exist). So now you're being led to believe that you're powerless to even stop yourself from being tortured and killed, that you don't even have a working self-preservation instinct and capability. 'You're useless and your fate sealed'. And when that torture and murder is exacted through a thousand needle pricks and mere punches, etc.....well, it's like death by thousand paper cuts. Eventually, inevitably, there are too many tiny injuries now equalling the weight and devastation of one huge one. Takes years. But, MEANWHILE, you're getting your lifestyle subsidised so you can save up and get richer quite quickly, or are just constantly sponging or downright LIVING OFF OF, expense-free. If you suddenly find (because you continue cruising and dating on-the-side) a better source for exploiting, ego-satisfyingly dominating and bullying yet getting 'worshipped' for it, then you no longer need to keep her (or him) around. So you can just beat them senseless (so they'll sit patiently 'on ice' for their master's return for a top-up and/or agree to be in his harem) or murder them. Sociopath. They're dangerous BOTH ways. When the psychologists say too few of them kill, they're wrong-wrong-wrong. There is more than one way to batter your wife/husband and there is likewise more than one way to kill your wife/husband. So let's just alter the lingo to save any more confusion, and say, DESTROY HER/HIM. If you (because you're mal-programmed to point of 'evil') indeed want to majorly speed it up, though, then cheating and somehow failing to not get found out - "uh-duuh-uh-duuh, I'm too stupid to keep it secret, no really I am" - is perfect. One, mighty blow. The coup d'etat. So I'm really sorry, and please just keep your eyes on the prize and teeth gritted through this gauntlet run to Happyville. "I confronted him and gave him one more chance to be honest and come clean. Obviously he didn't do that. He claims he removed that memory from his mind, as it hurt him so much that he had betrayed me and he felt disgusted in himself." Yup, that's what I do when I feel hurt and disgusted at myself for my behaviour. Repeat it (uh-duh-uh-duh). Oh, but, wait - I'm forgetting that I forgot, whereas remembering would have stopped me. Cheers, pretend crap memory, ol' pal! "He claims all the lies, were all to protect me from being hurt by his stupidity." Hang on a minute... According to him, his earnest claims are all lies. So now he claims i.e. lies by saying that all his lies were lies (etc)? (Did you respond, 'Is mummy there?...can I speak to mummy?'? :-p) As for his protection - or, since this is a claim, which means lie - false protection attempt...... Start again: so for non-protection of you from his stupidity- no, wait, stupidity is a claim also.... So for non-protection of you from his CLEVERNESS, ...................nope ("Is mummy there?...can he fetch mummy?"). :-p I can get my head into some incredible shapes, but not 10-dimensional ones. Suffice it to say, therefore: he said, 'B*llocks, b*llocks, b*llocks and more b*llocks, buh-luugh, buh-luugh, buh-luugh- CUCKOO!'. That we understand. That we believe. Good, got that one sorted! You're dating Benny from Crossroads on Acid following someone having stabbed his faithful doggie in the head in front of him. Don't fancy yours much. ;-) Sorry - 'were' dating. "At first it was remorse, then it moved briefly into anger, and now he has had an epiphany." Oh. The famous epiphany. But wait - isn't that a claim aka lie? Ah-hah, so that means: NOT had an epiphany, NOT learned a thing. Yes, actually, we'd agree. "He feels that all the lies are out," Out and turned inside-out, yes. Which means No. "and he realizes that he was wrong and messed up big time and is taking the correct steps to fix his issues and prove to me that he can be faithful and honest." No, sorry - that curriculum and exam was LAST year. He failed it. No re-takes, sorry. He'll have to stay down a class while you move up, that's the consequence. "He claims he loves me" Claim equals lie/opposite equals, he lies he loves me, equals, doesn't love me. Gosh, tell us something we *don't* know! Cos, yeah... When *I* love someone, I too ("Matron...?") like to show it by ("Matron!!") cheating on them, yup ("Security!!!").......Cuckoo. "and knows we are amazing together" Yeah. If you're partner's cheated on you, that means as a coupling YOU'RE AMAZING. I mean, everyone knows *that* - right? Oop - another claim!... "and we can overcome all of this and be happy." = and we can fail to overcome all of this and be (only you) miserable as sin. "The daddy issue is now also gone," Oh yes? Did his b*lls drop off?...again? "as he claims he has realized as long as he has me he doesn't need to be a biological father. (same thing he told me in the beginning)" :-D "he has been talking to a counselor" Claim Alert!!! = He has not been talking to a counsellor. "who he claims is helping him" = Whom (of whom there isn't any whom) is *not* helping him. (Psst! Are you as pleased as me for that heads-up he gave us with regards to what a claim actually is? We'd have been scratching our heads all year if not. :-p) "to see all the demons he has and how to correct his behavior. he claims he went into depression after the miscarriage and instead of talking to me, he tried to deal on his own and ended up making more of a mess." = to see all the demons he has *not* got and *b*llocks* to correcting his behaviour. (Yes, his interpretation aid is *very* helpful.) He did *not* go into depression nor need to talk to you, nor need to deal with a thing, so did *not* end up making more of a mess but more GLEE FODDER: 'I'm cleverer than you, I'm fooling you, getting to beat you up under the table where you can't see what I'm doing thus work out WHY you're in such big pain, getting my way all the time, literally all the time, getting all the perks and one of the work of being married and single at the same time..... (etc).... HAH!'. "I told him, I need time to figure out what I want. That, my feelings for him have changed as a result of his behavior and I do not trust him at all. I do not trust that he can faithful, but more importantly I do not trust that what he says is how he is really feeling, or is it, just what he feels he wants in the moment. He tried for two weeks to convince me to remain his girlfriend, but still move out and work on our relationship at the same time. I realize this is what he needs for himself to not worry about who Im with or what Im doing. So that's where I am at." Not EVEN what he feels he wants in the moment. Simply a well worn domination campaign, exacted on you like it's been exacted on trusting-MILLIONS throughout the history of mankind and biological-androidkind. In fact, this is what he needs for reassurance of possession *as well as* the means to gather and cultivate more future harem members, unseen by you and now unaccountable to you should you sense/suspect. Think, going into a hospital wearing a white coat and pretending you're a staff doctor, (pretend to) work there for years, just to get the money and smart motor, etc., and "Duper's Delight", until you're (too quickly) bored silly with that game and onto another role for the taking (because Normals trust that everyone else is basically normal too so tend not to suspect a thing for years). Now think, going into a boudoir wearing a rose between your teeth and pretending to love and fancy a woman to itty bitty pieces Amen and then reaching the point where you can no longer keep up the irritating albeit 'mandatory' act so start to drop the ball, slip up and show your real face more and more until there is no more slip to up and no more balls to drop (not even the ones that contained his paternal instinct that never existed to begin with). Got it? But I'm afraid you have to bend over again. You did it again - told him the truth. That's you, finding yourself incapable of keeping a mental hold onto the fact of the REAL him with the REAL script, hence sliding back into the kind of break-up behaviour you're free to express with a Normal. ...meaning, Damage Limitation Time again. Unless you did that out of feeling you don't NEED to protect yourself because you've taken your delicate heart *off* him and have it safely out of his reach *plus* have battened down every hatch, including financial - meaning, there is no longer any way in which he can touch you? RSVP. PS: Impressed nonetheless - and owe you a bit of an apology: 'Up top' I was wondering out-loud to Lily, whether your absence meant he'd managed to Hoover you up again (because you see it happen too often on here). However, the saving grace: 'down bottom' strangely refrained from suggesting it and instead decided to just wait patiently, and 'won that vote'. So it was just a negative expectation and - sorry for having doubted you a tad.

So has he tried to Hoover you since? Tried to phone? Silent calls? Drive-Bys? Getting mutual friends to (cough) offer a sympathetic ear (collect intel)? Also, within his 'Don't go!' repertoire, did he at any point get aggressive (I noted you said angry)? If so, how did you deal with it? Irrespective, he let you go a little too easily, didn't he? Things that make me go, "Hmmm...". It must suit him... for a while...(space to cheat)...and believes hoovering you up at any point will be a piece of p*ss. (Evidence to the contrary, this case, what you've demonstrated you're actually like, makes no odds to them because they're delusional *and* over-cocky.)

Well I don't have much to say. I think if truly you guys still love each other I can refer you to someone because it has happened to one of my uncle and his fine with his wife now. You can get back to me if you haven't got solution to your problem yet and let work it out and I give you 90% assurance. Regards

Christina, could you actually read the thread, please, before you go claiming to care so much on a personal level? Many thanks.

Hello-ho....!