I desperately need to choose between a life in the EU vs Bali

I am a 51 year old white male and am suffering from a little self-inflicted mind game. I am also currently living with my current girlfriend in a common-law partnership in a country in the EU. I have been here 1 month and need to start working soon and have to stay 5 years to get the EU passport. I also have the opportunity to live and work in BALI. I am so drawn to the different lifestyle there that i am leaning towards taking my things and moving there. My girlfriend understands what i want and she has agreed to letting me go, but then the relationship is understandably over. If i choose to stay here for 5 years to get my passport, I will be choosing a somber clinical lifestyle over a fantastic tropical (but uncertain) lifestyle in Bali. Obviously here, there is a functional government and infrastructure. There not so much. I am really drawn to Bali as i love the motorcycle way of life, the weather and the people. Here i feel out of sorts and it feels like everything is black and white and routines. Please give me your inputs. I would ESPECIALLY appreciate inputs from you guys out there that have lived and worked in the EU and perhaps Bali as well. I dont know what to expect from the EU way of working and living. It just feels like it will cost me 5 years of my life to get the passport - whereas i could be having a great tropical life for that same 5 years in Bali. Thanks so much

Hi Elusiveman, First off - for how long were you and your girlfriend Long-Distance before moving-in with her in her country? And where did you move FROM?

I have been with this girl 7 years, we started our relationship when we both lived in South Africa. then we only saw each other on weekends as we lived in different towns each with our own kids. we left SA end 2019 and went to vietnam for 3 months and then cambodia for 15. she returned to her country in EU and i went to Bali to do diving training. 5 months later she forced me to return, so i went back to SA to my family for 3 months and then to her as she once again forced me to do so. I then stayed 2 months in europe and once again left for bali to check out business opportunities. i was supposed to stay 3 months in bali but after a month she forced me to go back to her to start the co-habitation process. I am currently in europe busy with this co-habitation and need to start work soon, so am evaluating whether i really want to stay here or go to Bali as i am drawn to bali. that is why my question was aimed more at HOW IS LIFE IN EUROPE vs BALI.... am i stupid to give up the opportunity to live and work here in exchange for a happy and a fun life in bali? this is why i need someone that lived and worked in EUROPE and hopefully BALI too to help me with this. Please dont judge me when i say this... but i have a girl in bali that is willing to marry me and start a life with me there. But, i need to determine WHETHER i am stupid giving up on the EU..... dont get me wrong, if i had to choose between girl vs girl i would go for bali for sure. But i need to consider all aspects. Living and working in EUROPE could be a very good opportunity BUT... i need to know how it really is PLEASE HELP ME FIGURE THIS OUT

any feedback please?

moderator - would you please be so kind and reply? i need your inputs please?

Sorry, I'm voluntary and part-time. Think of this place as a 5-star restaurant rather than fast-food joint like MacDonalds (insta). Right then... Next question is: "5 months later she forced me to return," How on earth did she manage that? Did she blackmail you with something?

And how come this ability to force you, couldn't be exerted again to stop you from LEAVING (2 months later for Bali)?

understood, thanks no, i felt compelled to do what she wanted because i didnt want to hurt her and felt i owed it to her. thats what "forced" means

i NEED TO know, rather URGENTLY, what you suggest i do. I have to choose between a life in Europe where i can easily find a job and have cheap medical aid and be with the girl i dont really want to be with OR a life in bali, be with the girl i want but have a questionable existence and an expensive medical aid... i really want the bali girl, we love each other - but its a risky situation... i am worried i might be throwing away a decent EU future for a possible failed one in bali. possible as it could go both ways.

I STATED that i wanted to go check out business opportunities there and she didnt agree but allowed me to go. infact i was going to see whether a life with the other girl would work so we ended up renting a house for a year but i once again allowed my feelings of guilt and compassion for her feelings force me to come back. i am now stuck here and need to decide what to do in 2 days. if not, she will have to pay income tax for yet another month. then i cant go.

I STATED that i wanted to go check out business opportunities there and she didnt agree but allowed me to go. infact i was going to see whether a life with the other girl would work so we ended up renting a house for a year but i once again allowed my feelings of guilt and compassion for her feelings force me to come back. i am now stuck here and need to decide what to do in 2 days. if not, she will have to pay income tax for yet another month. then i cant go.

I know you want input on Bali specifically but the reason WHY you cant make this decision on your own is because you're in serious mental conflict. First we have to achieve clarity for you so that your decision for moving anywhere is a genuine one and you won't end up miserable in Bali and still lilypad leaping in your 60s. IF you want to end this self-inflicted merry-go-rounding of yours? If not - BALI. It's better than your hokey-cokey, particularly for this poor woman. Even if it *weren't* such a year-round beautiful environment. I've been to places near to Bali. I've also just emigrated from YUK to Espana (which took me YEARS of working and battling!)....and things have changed A LOT, especially thanks to Brexit and Covid. So Spain isn't the same Spain I dreamed about (which other Newbies are saying, too). However, if you are happy in yourself you can be happy anywhere that's conducive to such. Plus (note this, Mr Insta-Hopper), the longer you stay in a place, the quicker you adapt to where you can`t HELP but like it. What's missing in you is your giving yourself permission to feel the fear and do it anyway. In your case, stay in one place long enough TO BOND. Fair statement?

i hear you, but, if i understand you correctly, i must stay in EU? I have always longed to find someone that i can be myself with and enjoy being with. never did i expect it to be in such a place. NOW, my age considered, i KNOW if i stay in EU this is where i will probably die some day. SO, being presented with the opportunity to be with someone of my choosing AND in a place i actually like is a bonus. i know this is probably the last time i can make this kind of life change before the end. MY concern is one of a future. TO get into the EU cost a lot of money and i realize its a great opportunity, BUT, should i force myself to stay here just because i want a future? OR, should i go where iwant to be, take my chances and see where it goes? THATS my worry.

No, I'm not saying stay in the EU. Neither am I saying, go to Bali. You're at a roulette table and wanting people to tell you whether if you make a bet you'll win or lose. They can't. Because it's a gamble. And anyway, the things that make you UN-happy "here" will go with you"there". It's THOSE things you have to identify in order to know whether moving to a different environment, however it is, will leave you happier or less happy. An attachment to this long-term gf would be one. You don't sound like you have much of one, though. Do you? And don't you think after 7 years you should? Otherwise, weren't you just with her for convenience? And - anywhere you go in the world will have the roughly same amoiunt of daily lifestyle pros and cons that you suffer right now, just DIFFERENT. I call it, same amount of sh*t, same amount of flowers, JUST DIFFERENT SMELL. But leaving those things aside - are you a gambling man?

i am a virgo and an incessant thinker it seems. so normally i try to make an educated decision to try avoid making the wrong one. in this case its purely a life in EU with an unhappy relationship VS a life in Bali with a good one that i can make work from the start. As mentioned i even asked her to marry me and we both want that. I have a desire to commit to one person forever. I am ready to do that. EU girl i told from the start i would never marry because i knew she wasnt really my type. YEs, we stuck together after leaving my country in 2019 till now. SO no, not really with her for convenience... more as a result of circumstance. THis is why i see this opportunity as a universe sending me a chance to be happy BUT, i dont want that to cloud the issue of country choice. you see, the country i come from is big on racism and unemployment is 46% so i cannot ever return there for living or working, Thats why this choice i such a complex one. I know if this relationship ends in future before i get my passport, i will have to return to my country anyway, and the same in Bali. Only difference is HERE i can find a job easily but not in Bali

i am a virgo and an incessant thinker it seems. so normally i try to make an educated decision to try avoid making the wrong one. in this case its purely a life in EU with an unhappy relationship VS a life in Bali with a good one that i can make work from the start. As mentioned i even asked her to marry me and we both want that. I have a desire to commit to one person forever. I am ready to do that. EU girl i told from the start i would never marry because i knew she wasnt really my type. YEs, we stuck together after leaving my country in 2019 till now. SO no, not really with her for convenience... more as a result of circumstance. THis is why i see this opportunity as a universe sending me a chance to be happy BUT, i dont want that to cloud the issue of country choice. you see, the country i come from is big on racism and unemployment is 46% so i cannot ever return there for living or working, Thats why this choice i such a complex one. I know if this relationship ends in future before i get my passport, i will have to return to my country anyway, and the same in Bali. Only difference is HERE i can find a job easily but not in Bali

Really, truthfully, you're going to Bali more for someone you think you CAN attach to (fall in-love properly with), in an environment that's conducive to THAT because it's romantic. Work life and old-age security is clearly secondary where this desire/urge is concerned, yet still part of what would form the basis of yours and this woman's nest and whether the relationship succeeded or not. How hard is is to get paid work in Bali? Same question regarding starting-up your own business (particularly, an web-based one so it matters not where you are)? You see, you need a special someone/sense of family (lifelong friends, say) or belonging AND an environment that suits you, to be actually happy in a place (go google Human Givens). If you can't earn money, this new woman (or any woman) isn't going to be enough to keep you contented. Likewise, if you were earning mega-bucks but didn't have the "home" set-up, you'd pretty soon start to resent and dislike that job/career. You don't have your most important human needs ticked here in the EU because all you have is security and not enough/barely any bonded love. In Bali, you might have the bonded love but, by the sounds of your concerns, no security. UNLESS as I say, you start an interweb career or can spot an unmet market gap over there which for the first year or so (until you can see it can be a going concern) you would be paid cash for (e.g. house-to-house car valeting or handyman-ing?). Are you even sure you don't just really badly need a holiday? I say go. Not least because I don't like the way you think you can flail around in confused indecision despite your arms and hands keep hitting, not just this one EU woman but the one waiting nervously for your decision in Bali as well. Did the fact that you're using and basically messing-around/emotionally abusing the former, not occur to you? (Consciously, I mean.) And did it occur to you that not being able to be PROUD of yourself (this case, as a male romantic partner) can seriously detriment your self-esteem - one symptom of such, being - yep, you guessed it - CAUGHT IN INDECISION a lot. Do the right thing and leave this woman alone so that SHE, at least, can make a proper relationship and life for yourself. Go to Bali - because it's the things we DIDN'T do, which we regret on our deathbeds, not the things we did (psych fact) - and give it AT LEAST 2 years (bonding properly takes 2 to 5...5 if you work long hours) to know whether you liking it or not is genuine and not just a symptom of that super-obvious commitmentphobia of yours (which, probably, has simply begun weaaring-off by now at your riper age, yeh?).

Crossover! I see. She's using you, too. Two little commitmentphobes, now ready to face the fear and do it anyway (the thought is scary, the reality is not). So what, though. I'm talking about what YOU'RE doing which is bad for YOU. She's her biz, she's not come here. She still likes it more than you, then (or is another forum)? Act in ways - in ALL areas of your life - where you can be proud of yourself as a man (regardless of what type & style of one). Be braver and all that loftier behaviour will just come naturally. Yeah, I agree with (subconscious You, which I can hear AND is clearer than you): go to Bali.

New life mantra for you: Any action is good action. It's INACTION (due to indecision and procrastination) that grinds you down and (is one of the things that) makes you unhappy. Truth is: You´ll end up alright or fine and dandy WHEREVER you go. Because you're born from a now, too-far evolved specie that knows how to find ways to survive at worst or prosper at best in ANY hardship (thanks to genetic memory). We're even the dominant specie on the planet. For all you know, you could win the lottery in Bali! But I'll bet being homeless (not likely, but a fear) would be far easier there as well - like any hot and bountiful country NOT almost completely covered in concrete! So. Now I've said, go to Bali - do you suddenly feel you can and want to even more?

noted. as far as needing a holiday is concerned - i returned from cambodia in may 2021 after 2 years there. then went to bali for dive training and left back to my country in sept 2021 and then back to EU nov 2021 then as we know back to bali jan 2022. so no, dont need a holiday. ok, not being able to be PROUD of myself ... thats an angle i havent thought about... perhaps thats why i ceased any sexual activity with the EU girl... i never felt like i was the MAN in the relationship.. shes very mature and overpowering... so yes, perhaps an issue. Yes, i know what i am doing to her. I broke up with her before coming back but neither of us wanted to let go, i guess for different reasons. Commitment phobia.. yes in some cases. With bali girl i am ready to commit. I hope this is the answer i need... i have a few days to make this decision. I dont know WHY i find it SO difficult to just say YES i am going. ANy last comments?

PS: Also - things, including places and countries, are constantly evolving to suit the environment, culture, Brexit, etc. Nothing stays the same. Again for all you know - Bali could suddenly start instating more modern infrastructure. Plus, not having a happy home life makes humans far more unhappy than hating their office life (unless they spend more time there). Happier people find it easier to get jobs and make money, anyway. The nest is the most important place. When that's lovely, it gives you the confidence to go out every day and conquer the world. I mean - who doesn't want a happy, loved-up, smiling person in their company? Also, what's NEAR to Bali, where finding work IS easier but commute-able to via a car and/or ferry? What about all the tourist jobs in Bali? We're coming OUT of Covid now, aren't we. Certainly, here, I'm noticing the Spanish desperately starting to "jush"-up and paint and repair everywhere in the touristy areas and along the touristy coastlines so...THEY obviously expect to receive tourists enough, compared to last year. Is Bali sprucing-up at the mo? Why don't you phone the tourist board there and simply ask? But even in the short term of the next 2 years (should things take time to get back to normal tourism levels) - you showed your decision anyway when you said: a somber clinical lifestyle -v- a fantastic tropical (but uncertain) lifestyle I mean - who in their right mind (but with no fears and worries) if presented with that on a menu would choose the first one? LOL

"I dont know WHY i find it SO difficult to just say YES i am going." Don't you? I do. IT'S UCKING SCARY! PETRIFYING! But that bit doesn't last. Soon as you get a mental handle on the realities of the place, that disappears and you start to calm down and really enjoy yourself. MUCH easier not to sense if you're in-love because that's the biggest mood-influencer of all, and overrides everything! Well done for closing the shag-shop. Good. Phew. I WOULD say keep it up but that would defeat the object, haha.

PS: YOU LUCKY BASTD! I WOULD LOVE TO LIVE IN BALI! Can't. Don`t want to be that far from my son. I tried to move to Kenya when I was young. Didn't work out for beaurocratic and issue-ridden employer reasons, but..... paradise. Compared to the EU. That IS the choice these days: success in your wallet versus success in your heart. But like I say - nobody hires a misery-guts and nor do misery-guts have the self-motivation in them to get off their arses and start their own biz. Nest is Best. :-)

i appreciate that! i have never taken chances quite like this. Once, many years ago when i was in Std 7, i changed schools to be with a girl i liked. when i got there she didnt want anything to do with me - so - i decided that rule #1 was - NEVER MAKE LIFE CHANGING DECISIONS BASED ON A GIRL. so, this rule has haunted me ever since i was there in JAN.. yes, believe it or NOT, i flew there, sat quarantine in a SHTy hotel for 6 nights and sent just one month with her before i left it all and came back! anyway, that rule still haunts me with i think of THIS ULTIMATE decision changing countries and lifestyles to be with a girl... WOW... not sure i have the b@lls to do it.. lets see. OH YES, what i wanted to tell you is this... my gf here has been hassling me to start looking for a job - for obv reasons.. and i have just not felt the motivation to get up and go for interviews...it doesnt feel like i believe im myself OR that i will enjoy any job i get here. i never felt like i belonged here.. even though its a GREAT ONCE IN A LIFETIME opportunity and many people will KILL to have it. so, i was told the next income tax payment needs to be done in 4 days so i need to decide which way i am going. In bali, the girl has villas she wants me to get involved in, and if we dont make money there she wanted to start a restaurant. so there are plans for income! I just hope i have the b@lls to do what i want and not do what i think i should because i dont want to hurt EU girl

ALSO...I wouldn't worry about being in your 50s because - you're not really. If you were, you'd have the established stuff to suit (career, house, wife, kids). You obviously were once Boy Interrupted. But the good news with getting developmentally delayed is that the genes SENSE you've not passed certain landmarks (the things that trigger the next level of your human developmental program) and also retards your outer appearance by whatever degree. So you probably don't look or act your age, either. And that's especially true if you didn't produce a baby. You're probably off-paper only 30 and will live another 50 years, and won't even NEED all the usual, reassuring, Autumn Years things in place to keep you feeling safe as you approach your life end...not for another 20 anyway. So that's PLENTY of time to start gathering nuts.

ok to respond to the 17h56 message.. here goes. i had 2x kids early and got divorced in 2010 as the relationship was technically dead as we actually had nothing in common. Nice girl though, but not my type - i realized later on i rescued her from an abusive mother. anyhow, my kids are out of the house and ex-wife remarried. thats why i sold everything i had end 2019 and left my country. I wanted to travel asia for 10 years blogging etc. but covid screwed that up and a vietnam to cambodia visa run ended up in me being stranded there. But that turned out groovy later. Another aspect of the bali girl i like is that i am myself with her, she even picked up on it when i talk to the eu gf that i am a totally different compliant person. so this shows me that i change or adapt to EU GF and that is maybe part of the reason im not happy. well, i prefer being free and happy to oppressed and quiet. that sounds GRIM but i feel that way. thats partly why i love the bali way as its free... scooter, sun, sand and cheap good food. anyway... i hated europe when i got here becoz from 30 odd degrees C i came back to snow. snow is cool, dont get me wrong, but its still cold today!! I know i feel better in Bali... but mentally i worry about expensive medical aids, living expenses etc. oh yes, to add to this, i dont know if i already mentioned... Bali girl's parents have an island where i can retire if time comes.. so there is some sort of backup there I hope this makes sense.

i appreciate that! i have never taken chances quite like this. Once, many years ago when i was in Std 7, i changed schools to be with a girl i liked. when i got there she didnt want anything to do with me - so - i decided that rule #1 was - NEVER MAKE LIFE CHANGING DECISIONS BASED ON A GIRL. so, this rule has haunted me ever since i was there in JAN.. yes, believe it or NOT, i flew there, sat quarantine in a SHTy hotel for 6 nights and sent just one month with her before i left it all and came back! anyway, that rule still haunts me with i think of THIS ULTIMATE decision changing countries and lifestyles to be with a girl... WOW... not sure i have the b@lls to do it.. lets see. OH YES, what i wanted to tell you is this... my gf here has been hassling me to start looking for a job - for obv reasons.. and i have just not felt the motivation to get up and go for interviews...it doesnt feel like i believe im myself OR that i will enjoy any job i get here. i never felt like i belonged here.. even though its a GREAT ONCE IN A LIFETIME opportunity and many people will KILL to have it. so, i was told the next income tax payment needs to be done in 4 days so i need to decide which way i am going. In bali, the girl has villas she wants me to get involved in, and if we dont make money there she wanted to start a restaurant. so there are plans for income! I just hope i have the b@lls to do what i want and not do what i think i should because i dont want to hurt EU girl

noted. as far as needing a holiday is concerned - i returned from cambodia in may 2021 after 2 years there. then went to bali for dive training and left back to my country in sept 2021 and then back to EU nov 2021 then as we know back to bali jan 2022. so no, dont need a holiday. ok, not being able to be PROUD of myself ... thats an angle i havent thought about... perhaps thats why i ceased any sexual activity with the EU girl... i never felt like i was the MAN in the relationship.. shes very mature and overpowering... so yes, perhaps an issue. Yes, i know what i am doing to her. I broke up with her before coming back but neither of us wanted to let go, i guess for different reasons. Commitment phobia.. yes in some cases. With bali girl i am ready to commit. I hope this is the answer i need... i have a few days to make this decision. I dont know WHY i find it SO difficult to just say YES i am going. ANy last comments?

"Once, many years ago when i was in Std 7, i changed schools to be with a girl i liked. when i got there she didnt want anything to do with me - so - i decided that rule #1 was - NEVER MAKE LIFE CHANGING DECISIONS BASED ON A GIRL." Well, THAT was a bit DAFT, then, wasn't it! It should merely have been this: Never make life-changing decisions based on the WRONG GIRL. I.e. make sure you've checked them out adequately. If you HAVE to rush in, check them out FASTER!

"I never felt like i belonged here.. even though its a GREAT ONCE IN A LIFETIME opportunity and many people will KILL to have it." Yeah, well. Many would kill to have their mouth gradually stretched big enough over the years to fit a side plate! They're called Zulus (I think?)

I can SEE that mal-formed mantra of yours is stuck fast in your head because - "With bali girl i am ready to commit." Bali WOMAN.

Anyway - back to becoming more proud of yourself... If you ever DO find yourself having to be financially propped-up or fully-supported, financially, by Bali Babe or her family, make sure you pay your way in other ways: housework, shopping, cooking, gardening, mending the house and cars, chauffeuring ...that sort of stuff. Or whatever other skills you have that they could benefit from. Just show your appreciation of their PROVIDING you with trappings of money by SAVING them money. And that way, they haven't supported you, like you're a teenager again, they've merely BARTERED with you.

I can SEE that mal-formed mantra of yours is stuck fast in your head because - "With bali girl i am ready to commit." she is 33... or did i fail to mention that? lol

If you ever DO find yourself having to be financially propped-up or fully-supported, financially, by Bali Babe or her family, make sure you pay your way in other ways: housework, shopping, cooking, gardening, mending the house and cars, chauffeuring ...that sort of stuff. Or whatever other skills you have that they could benefit from. Just show your appreciation of their PROVIDING you with trappings of money by SAVING them money. And that way, they haven't supported you, like you're a teenager again, they've merely BARTERED with you. well, my plan would be to have enough money before i run out, and go and build my own house. get cattle and farm. not be supported by them.... but yes, i can offer a lot for them and the village. their family is very well known on the island so i can defimitely upskill everyone that wants to learn

PS.. i am waiting for your replies like a druggie for the next fix... you might be persuading me to take the leap! thank you for you efforts so far... i must be tiring you out already

You refer throughout to both women as girls. My tip is to practise not doing that - despite it's such an easily picked-up, bad verbal habit that too many men have, even today - because it subliminally mis-represents you as the type of full-grown male who still feels threatened by women and has to try to decrease it by 'reducing' their adult status to that of a child.

"well, my plan would be to have enough money before i run out, and go and build my own house. get cattle and farm. not be supported by them.... but yes, i can offer a lot for them and the village." Excellent! "their family is very well known on the island so i can defimitely upskill everyone that wants to learn" EXCELLENT! Aww, I'm sure you'll get a cash at first, then paid, job really easily! You gats real, never-go-out-of-fashion skills.

There seem to be all the IMPORTANT reasons in the world to go, rather than stay put. So this can't be able practical things. I think, really, honestly, you're just reacting to the darn scariness of the act. Frankly, if you WEREN'T petrified to leave security for the unknown, I'd have to conclude there were something either incredibly right with you or incredibly wrong! You'd be The Human Anomaly, lol. PS: You're not tiring me out, I just don't have enough time. But anyone else can join in the conversation if they wish to?

(Tsk - should read, So this can't be about practical things)

You refer throughout to both women as girls. My tip is to practise not doing that - despite it's such an easily picked-up, bad verbal habit that too many men have, even today - because it subliminally mis-represents you as the type of full-grown male who still feels threatened by women and has to try to decrease it by 'reducing' their adult status to that of a child. oops didnt know that that was what it meant. i am definitely not threatened by women.... ok to tie onto this... You are right, i am more worried about giving up the certainty of a future and medical aid here for the uncertainty and no medical aid.. LOL of bali i realize that Bali will cost me a lot up to the point that i can start working or making money there.. i had a talk to my current GF today and we both agreed that the relationship is not working out. she wants what i am not giving her and apparently i am negative about the country and work opportunities here. Yes, true, i just cant imagine myself working here and going home to her after for the next 30 years. dont get me wrong.. shes an awesome woman. but i guess not really my type. life commitment with her scares me... as opposed to the other WOMAN in bali... i have no issue marrying her.

"i am definitely not threatened by women...." No, I know you're not (for sure*), but Narcissists/Dinosaurs are so it's definitely best not to unwittingly copy their language. (*No Narc would reply Oops etc. to that. They'd argue, attempt to justify the unjustifiable (because they're never-never wrong). Nope, you're nicely clean that way. :-) "i had a talk to my current GF today and we both agreed that the relationship is not working out." Haha - no sh*t, Sherlock! Probably, if it was, you wouldn't have found yourself in an existence and environment you describe as sombre and clinical, with eyes for another young lady. "Innit!" :-) Back to Bali: If the Balinese people make a living I'm sure a more skilled and advanced European worker will. But yes, you'll have to settle in first. "ife commitment with her scares me... as opposed to the other WOMAN in bali... i have no issue marrying her." Well, now you've said that, you have to go. Nest first, then the outside of the nest including hunting for food (job/career). Modernday men do it backwards and get the career firmly established first. But that's the harder way round, without the compensatory snuggly mate and nest to go home to because they're trying to self-motivate using the MERE IDEA of a wife they love and home they love being in). So even though you've had false starts, if there's no fear, just desire, to be with this woman then logically and automatically you'll have the enthusiasm and capability to find regular work or a new career, or even start a new industry over there. 'Better late than never'. Well, I'm fine - and getting finer, albeit slowly at post-covid pace, and I did this all on my ownio, so, you - you're laughing!

Bali is beaaaaaautiful. Even more beautiful than Spain. I'm quite jealous, really. Can I come? (Haha!)

...I mean - just LOOK at this!... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UFCRBIg3Y0 (for the benefit of others) Most people would KILL to go to Bali, just ON HOLIDAY. And you're going to live there! People said to me just before I left YUK - It won't be like a non-stop holiday, you know! To which I replied, Yes it will...just a working one. WHICH IT IS.

OK -- you make very valid comments! WHY am i so reluctant to go? Why do i find it so difficult to just make the decision? Please tell me why? Just to add to the things we already said... as a foreigner in bali, i am not allowed to work. i can however support my wife in her business in a back office financial capacity. so, unless i find some sort of way to work online - which i dont see at this point, i will have to work with her. i just hope that is a success story in the making. How do i eradicate this panic feeling when i think of leaving here? i want to go to Bali with an open heart and excitement in my veins... i feel like going goes against all sense...

"WHY am i so reluctant to go? Why do i find it so difficult to just make the decision?" I thought I'd just told you? BECAUSE THE THOUGHT OF IT IS TERRIFYING! ESPECIALLY at your more mature age! It's how you SHOULD feel. How THE VERY LARGE MAJORITY feel. Emphasis on 'the thought of', though. It's because it's The Unknown. So you view the future through terrified (negative emotion) glasses and hence get (wait for it), terrifying (negative) potential outcomes. You can't do anything about that natural fear. So you'll have to do as the self-help mantra tells you: Feel the fear and do it anyway.

" can however support my wife in her business in a back office financial capacity." Super! "so, unless i find some sort of way to work online - which i dont see at this point," Yeah - AT THIS POINT. Probably because you're not Mystic Meg with her crystal-ball! None of us are. (...well...sometimes I am, lol) "How do i eradicate this panic feeling when i think of leaving here?" Depends... Were you at all anxious even BEFORE this decision you faced, that was once quite far away, suddenly came to the top of your in-tray? "i want to go to Bali with an open heart and excitement in my veins..." I think you ARE excited - but much too much, where it feels like stage-fright. Go to a health food shop and talk to the staff there. They know their stuff and can give you a cocktail of homeopathic meds (like anything, some work on some, others on others, so you'll need this multi-pincer approach given your lack of time now). BUT - USUALLY - those feelings stop once the plane lands or as you emerge out of Arrivals.

I also know you'll feel a lot better once you ACCEPT your decision. While you're still kidding yourself that you can change your mind (when it's CLEARLY ALREADY MADE - re-read how FAR AHEAD you've planned it all!), you're keeping yourself paralysed in 'no-where properly' land and causing yourself Cognitive Dissonance (WHICH IS A HORRID, HORRID FEELING). Remember how there are too many superior, IMPORTANT aspects to Going To Bali, ones which will allow you to succeed. WHEREAS, the conditions of where you are right now are the perfect recipe for slowly-but-surely having the will to live sucked out of you. Sure, they could improve! But by the time they could - you'd be so chronically MEH! that you'd not have the wherewithall to ACT on them! Only if you were a masochist, therefore, would the latter be called any kind of success. Menu: Stay and wither away Go and thrive The truth is, the fact you were even CONSIDERING not staying, going to Bali PLUS the fact you allowed yourself to fall for a Balinese native PLUS the fact you came on here, knowing full well that EU cities tend never to get called Paradise, ergo, it was FAR more likely than not that any respondent would say - WOW - BALI! - GO! - too powerfully says I'M GOING TO BALI! So, that's that sorted. The decision IS made (and also planned as far ahead as is realistic to do, meaing - WELL-made). So what's left? How to turn-off or turn down this icky FEELING. Healthfood shop, here you come! Either that or - wait a bit and then take 10 coconuts before bedtime. :-)

This will help, though: Write me a list, here, of all the things you've noticed and love about Bali - all aspects (include food, sounds, sights). And then ditto about Bali Babe. And then go into detail regarding all the ways in which you're more commercially advanced than the Balinese when it comes to business skills and savvy.

Furthermore, if it helps: I not only came here WITHOUT any help (bar the estate agent), but certainly not with anyone to receive me (unlike lucky you!). And I had a couple of biz ventures in mind, based on gaps in the market I'd spotted during my visits here over the years. LIVING HERE, however, I discovered an even LESS obviously yet even MORE needed gap, so have therefore altered my plans to suit (which are underway). And yet, if the latter fails, I can still easily implement either or both of the former plans. I thoroughly recommend you take the first year (because it goes BLOODY fast!) to do only part-time hours - IF SHE'S HAPPY ABOUT IT - so that you can have the time to acclimatise to the place and how it functions, get to really know your way around, get to chat to locals AND tourists...basically have your ear to the ground and experiencing the environ more rapidly, so that you could work out what things are missing, for them. Plus, after a good year, you YOURSELF start to miss things or wish things existed. And that's how you get to discover the savvier, more guaranteeably lucrative gaps.

Furthermore, what with you sporting anywhere between a Mona Lisa smile of pure contentedness and a big, fat GRIN on your face all the time (joy at being there with no return flight pressure), you'll probably attract an awful lot of people on the beaches and in the bars, many of whom will wholly likely have a vacancy for a Best Friend. ...You know...The type of buddy where you confide in and advise each other, particularly over any difficult decisions. ;-) But in the meantime, you can always post on here. So are you in Germany? (It's okay to say because, well, a country is a big place, full of lots of chaps in your situation right now, meaning, you could be anyone, it won't be enough to expose your true identity.)

And another thing: Look what else I spotted...which is kind of huge: "I can however support my wife in her business in a back office financial capacity." My wife. :-) So, then... Is everyone here invited to your wedding in Bali?

Or just exclusively, all the people who go on to post on this thread?

(Too obvious, d'ya think? PMSL.)

PS: I forgot to add earlier: I said ESTABLISHED house, wife, kids. If you're divorced, it's not established, is it. It's UN-established (lol). So what I said about Boy Interrupted and Retarded-In-A-Good-Way still stands. (You may be so jammy as to be going to Ballistically-Beautiful Bali but I've got X-Ray Specs, so there ;-p)

Another quick PS: Any friends you make out there will bust a gut to help you settle in and smoothen as well as speed-up your path to success because obviously they won't want to lose you. And that's even ASIDE from Bali Babe's (- that me being ironic, btw, calling her that) family, friends, relatives, friends of relatives, all doing likewise. You are very, very, VERY lucky to have such a "problem" on your hands. LOL and PMSL and ROFL. Omg.... Bali.....

Sing this to the tune of I'm Going To Barbados: "Whoah! I'm goin' to Ba-Bali (deedle-eedle-eee) Woah! Back-to deee paaalm treeees (deedle-eedle-ee-dee) Woah! I'm goin' to-see ma girlfriend (deedle-eedle-eee) Woah! In dee sunny Caribbeeeean sea (deedle-eedle-eee-dee)...." And preferably in the mirror. (You can laugh - please do! - but, this in actual fact is a tried and tested anti-anxiety prescription from me. One Euro, please :-))

Hi there and thanks for all the replies again!!! I am sitting here, have missed the deadline for a longterm business visa through my agent, and have bali girl sitting on the island telling me if i am not there by sunday we are over. that makes my heart race and my hands tremble. I feel SO SO SO bad and SO SO SO sorry for my BELGIAN girlfriend as she doesnt want me to go.. she keeps telling me that everything i do makes her think THATS IT HES LEAVING. YES, it is not right for me to sit here knowing i dont want to be here and also not right towards bali that i keep postponing my return. so, i have to make a plan today --- NOW i am worried that should it tell belgium that i want to leave by the weekend she will obv be distraught and if i setup all my things and for some reason i am unable to go, i will have lost both of them. I am in such a tight position now... I hear you about everything you said above - and when i hear that i want to jump and take the risk and go! you are the only person that told me its okay to want to go and to GO some others i have spoken to before you, have all lectured me and told me i should not go i will fail! well, to add to this, bali girl was going mad because i could not chat to her whenever she wanted to so i told her to go to her island and visit her villas. she is there today and doing that. the boat to the island was packed with foreigners which is a good indication that life is returning there and soon business will too. this will be our primary source of income if all goes well. 2 of her 3 villas need repair as they were unoccupied for the last 3 years due to covid. so i will go 50/50 with her in doing so. we share everything, and have until now. TO add also -- my mind tells me i am mad to want to marry a girl just like that, but since the first day i met her i knew i didnt want to lose her. i even flew there specially in Jan to help her move into OUR HOUSE, i rented the house with her, and stayed there a month before allowing my own indecision to force me back to belgium. i should have stayed there! i came back because a part of me said "you dont belong here" and also the fear of starting a restaurant that i know nothing of... so i came back with the thought in my mind that i probably wouldnt see her again. well, after getting here i COULD NOT LET HER GO SHE tried many times to leave me and i kept fighting to keep her. i want to be with this girl.... even though my mind tells me it is probably a bad financial decision ..and for a virgo/logical thinker thats a worrysome situation... HELP! i am now considering going there on a VISA ON ARRIVAL, apply for my legal documents from my country that they need for the wedding, and i will then have to leave BALI with HER in a month time, maybe fly to Vietnam for a month there, and come back in on the right visa i should have gotten now. This is the backup plan. BUT- I STILL CANT TELL BELGIUM I WANT TO GO!! KILL ME NOW PLEASE!! I WISH THIS WAS OVER. MANY MANY VALUABLE LESSONS LEARNT DURING THIS PROCESS!!

Hi there and thanks for all the replies again!!! I am sitting here, have missed the deadline for a longterm business visa through my agent, and have bali girl sitting on the island telling me if i am not there by sunday we are over. that makes my heart race and my hands tremble. I feel SO SO SO bad and SO SO SO sorry for my BELGIAN girlfriend as she doesnt want me to go.. she keeps telling me that everything i do makes her think THATS IT HES LEAVING. YES, it is not right for me to sit here knowing i dont want to be here and also not right towards bali that i keep postponing my return. so, i have to make a plan today --- NOW i am worried that should it tell belgium that i want to leave by the weekend she will obv be distraught and if i setup all my things and for some reason i am unable to go, i will have lost both of them. I am in such a tight position now... I hear you about everything you said above - and when i hear that i want to jump and take the risk and go! you are the only person that told me its okay to want to go and to GO some others i have spoken to before you, have all lectured me and told me i should not go i will fail! well, to add to this, bali girl was going mad because i could not chat to her whenever she wanted to so i told her to go to her island and visit her villas. she is there today and doing that. the boat to the island was packed with foreigners which is a good indication that life is returning there and soon business will too. this will be our primary source of income if all goes well. 2 of her 3 villas need repair as they were unoccupied for the last 3 years due to covid. so i will go 50/50 with her in doing so. we share everything, and have until now. TO add also -- my mind tells me i am mad to want to marry a girl just like that, but since the first day i met her i knew i didnt want to lose her. i even flew there specially in Jan to help her move into OUR HOUSE, i rented the house with her, and stayed there a month before allowing my own indecision to force me back to belgium. i should have stayed there! i came back because a part of me said "you dont belong here" and also the fear of starting a restaurant that i know nothing of... so i came back with the thought in my mind that i probably wouldnt see her again. well, after getting here i COULD NOT LET HER GO SHE tried many times to leave me and i kept fighting to keep her. i want to be with this girl.... even though my mind tells me it is probably a bad financial decision ..and for a virgo/logical thinker thats a worrysome situation... HELP! i am now considering going there on a VISA ON ARRIVAL, apply for my legal documents from my country that they need for the wedding, and i will then have to leave BALI with HER in a month time, maybe fly to Vietnam for a month there, and come back in on the right visa i should have gotten now. This is the backup plan. BUT- I STILL CANT TELL BELGIUM I WANT TO GO!! KILL ME NOW PLEASE!! I WISH THIS WAS OVER. MANY MANY VALUABLE LESSONS LEARNT DURING THIS PROCESS!!

(Please would you stop using re-posting as a reception bell. Duplicating it makes no difference because it's solely my limited availability that sounds the bell.) Friends are supposed to be supportive. They're not. They must not want you to go - meaning, they`re advising you with THEIR interests at heart, not yours. Useless. Never ask advice from anyone who can be affected one way or the other by whatever choice you make. But nobody can INFLUENCE you, unless you're willing to be and except where they echo your own, previously hard-to-reach thoughts. Your thereby take YOUR advice but with reassurance that you're not crazy for doing so. Yours and your EU gf's relationship sounds toxic. But then, you admit you've been d*cking her around, so...you're reaping what you sowed, mate. "Jan to help her move into OUR HOUSE, i rented the house with her, and stayed there a month before allowing my own indecision to force me back to belgium." Er... So who paid your half of the rent after you left? You sure you're not trying to engineer an "a wife in each port" situation, even passive-aggressively (which means under your own radar)?...By taking so long that each woman acclimatises and de-sensitises to the situation until they each put up with it, ending up with only half a 'marriage' each? (I'm betting BOTH women are aware of the other woman and her relationship to you, yes?) Because, your 'worrisome situation' is both these women's (not girls'!) PERSONAL HELL. Let's sort out this NEW indecision - your newly-stated fear of telling EU Woman you're going, if that's truly what it is - once-and-for-all: *********** Heads you go to Bali. Tails you stay in Europe. Flip the coin now. If you don't like the result and wish you could flip again ("best of 3") - WHICH YOU CAN NOT - there's your decision. Ta-daaaa! That's a new coping mechanism for your indecisiveness, unless the 'practise makes perfect' and you can do it without those 'trainer wheels'. 50p, please. :-) *********** Meanwhile... A girl-sorry - woman like WHAT? *********** Your back-up plan sounds perfect, by the way. This really is not, however, a practical problem. It's a mental block (that translates to and feels emotionally - and probably fiscally - abusive to those involved (these women) and misrepresents you (I hope) as a bit of an arsehole. Can you appreciate this, now?...the horrible impact your problem is having on two other (hopefully) innocent people? Let's find out via what the coin - and you - said.

sorry, i push the "Click once to submit" button only once i dont know why it submits twice. umm.. belgian does not know about bali..bali knows about belgium so, thats it. i had a chat to belgium earlier today and she was obv frustrated... i said i cannot commit to finding a job as i dont know whether i am staying. i will have to make a decision tonight.... I still want to die... i really want to go to bali... but it feels so bad..

"sorry, i push the "Click once to submit" button only once i dont know why it submits twice." Oh, really? I'll notify Richard. I apologise for my mis-assumption there.

"umm.. belgian does not know about bali..bali knows about belgium so, thats it." Ok. They're still in emotional Hell, though, just Bali woman that much more so. It looks as if she's starting to lose trust in your claim you'll join her 'just as soon as'. Tonight? Good if you do - GOOD ON YA, THAT'S BETTER! ("Rarr, he da Man!") It's supposed to feel bad (it's the downside of a neuro-psychological system still stuck in simple caveman age, in reality, no more disturbing than an itch at the end of your nose...you just have to scratch it). Ignore the feeling, don't let it intimidate you and affect what you do. By telling EU Woman straight, you are kindly, gentlemanly setting free a woman who should pair up only with a man who loves her and could never, ever, even DREAM of leaving her. Same as you, yes? It's called, cruel to be kind. The intention behind the act is honourable. You're uncaging her and ceasing to waste or let *her* waste her precious time (and emotional welfare).

The timestamps shown against the duplicated posts are substantially far apart in minutes, which suggests that it isn't a double click of the submit button causing this issue but rather that the form (submission page) is being resubmitted. This would usually occur be due to the user navigating to another Web page, then clicking the back button (causing the browser to reload previously visited pages at which point the browser would usually display something along the lines of 'do you wish to resubmit the form data'.

Ah-hah! That's precisely why I thought they were deliberate. Thanks, Richard. (And I've just learned something new and new-fangled! :-))

Back to you, E-Man, What time tonight? If it's not too late - would it help if I sat on this thread just before you do it and then right afterwards? Bar a phonecall, time - flexible, I've not a lot on tonight. BTW, if it feels like I'm helpfully blocking off all your escape routes, then, that'll be because I am. (I know how to do 'Cruel to be kind', "innit", lol.)

ok, apologies for unknowingly doing something to resubmit the page - i know how frustrating unnecessary duplication can be. Well, thank you kindly for your offer. To get you up to speed of where i currently am sitting. 1. After numerous whatsapp messages to my visa-agent-of-choice i have finally received a reply stating that she will be able to submit my visa application tomorrow and i will have it just short of immigration cut-off the 28th for Ramadan. They will close from 28 - 8 May. I asked numerous times "are you sure if i pay today that the visa money will be cleared into your account so you can submit" and i was eventually told yes. i then asked "can you please tell me when the money clears OR if i send you a proof-of-payment will you carry on with the submission and eventually she came back saying that they will only submit once the funds cleared and that usually takes 1 day to do -- so i guess i will be out of time I will therefore have no option but to take PLAN B detailed earlier. 2. Bali girl is on the island where she want to see her villas today and met some new foreigners and they went out partying. She kept sending pics of her and the newfound friends having a party. i kept saying "have fun and please be careful and look after yourself" Hours later she sends me a garbled chat message saying she thinks shes pissed.. then she sent me a photo of her hand with blood and skin missing, telling me she had fallen off the bicycle 3 times on the way home. I once again replied "are you okay, please get home safely, shower and sleep, you will feel better tomorrow". Then, a few minutes later my phone rings, luckily it was on silent - so i could see she was VIDEO-CALLING me. Obviously i could not take the call fearing she would be loud as drunk people usually are so avoided taking it. i then received a voice note where she said i am never there when she needs me and her ex husband always was. then she flight-moded me. I sent a voice note explaining why i couldnt take it and promised to be there for her once i am there. SO, i expect another fight tomorrow when she wakes up along with a "I WANT TO END THIS RELATIONSHIP" message i am so used to getting. This is part of the reason i have been SO RELUCTANT to pay the visa fees of 380usd, fearing she would yet again, find a reason to PULL OUT and END IT. By the way, she has done that numerous times... she simply says she cant do it anymore, then blocks me on whatsapp, unfriends me on facebook and instagram and unshares location on google maps. Then when she realizes she cant sleep and that i am the only one there that talks to her, she unblocks me and apologizes for the blocking and then sends me a string of messages to get my attention so i talk to her. HEAVEN FORBIDS i dont reply quick enough - because she will get to a point (even if i didnt see the messages) where she gets upset and blocks me again CITING that she doesnt crawl to any man and the relationship is over! SO, perdon me for not rushing out to buy this visa... I am fearful that i buy the visa, tell belgium i am leaving (causing her to crash and burn) and then bali blocks me again, this time not unblocking me. THEN i lose both of them. so yes, i am very fearful of this happening. anyway, she has now flight-moded me and i cant speak to her and will probably tell me that she doesnt want this relationship anymore and she wants to move on and enjoy her life. SO, i cannot continue finalizing the matter tonight as i NEED TO HEAR what she has to say before i KILL MY LIFE. so, as soon as she decides to chat to me i will let you know what transpires. It should be painfully obvious that Bali girl is a very quick tempered, quick to the draw personality. Sometimes i wonder why i chose her... guess i dont like it easy... AS much as i try to teach her to think before she speaks and to not act like a spoilt child when she blocks/unblocks/unfriends etc she doesnt seem to get it. The cycle repeats every 2 or 3 days. BUT funny enough, what makes me feel like we are soulmates is the fact that when we are together we can just lie on the bed, each with his/her phone and just BE.. without needing anything. WE are just chilled and at peace.... Nothing and no-one else bothers us. I am no relationship master, but hours of internet read-ups seem to suggest we are... from day i i met her i knew she was different. today when i thought i was going to lose her, after yet another one of her tough confrontations last night, my heart was racing and i was literally shaking..... this has never happened with belgium girl... IT MUST MEAN SOMETHING? anyway - I REALIZE THIS THREAD MUST HAVE BECOME THE MOST ENTERTAINING OF ALL TIME.. LOL Feel free to disect and comment - correction - PLEASE disect and comment.. i need all possible viewpoints and angles on this one THANK YOUUU

"SO, i expect another fight tomorrow when she wakes up along with a "I WANT TO END THIS RELATIONSHIP" message i am so used to getting. This is part of the reason i have been SO RELUCTANT to pay the visa fees of 380usd, fearing she would yet again, find a reason to PULL OUT and END IT." Why did you wait until now to mention this what-sounds-like habitual behaviour of Bali woman? YES, you've been testing her faith, as well as by actually messing her around... BUT, all SHE has the right to do in response, is tell you to sling your hook because you're not brave or proactive - basically committed - enough for a woman like her, AND MEAN IT... not all this trying to coerce you (by waving The Sword of Damocles over your head any time you don't do what she expects of you)! That is control-freakery. How long in total have you known her? Good god - when I stand back, I see a trio of people sat in a circle, passing a rotten parcel round and round! I knew there was way more to this, I bloody knew it! What if you wash your hands of both of them, instead? Why do you have to have women to land on, anyway? Can`t you formulate a Plan C that you achieve independently, exclusively by your own steam? I don't mean that horribly, but - have you not noticed this attitude/belief in you? "The cycle repeats every 2 or 3 days." Good grief! "BUT funny enough, what makes me feel like we are soulmates is the fact that when we are together we can just lie on the bed, each with his/her phone and just BE.. without needing anything. WE are just chilled and at peace.... Nothing and no-one else bothers us." What a load of ollocks. Come OFF IT! All those two statements equal is this: There was a little (Bali) girl Who had a little curl Right in the middle of her forhead And when she was good, she was very, very good But when she was bad (displeased), she was HORRID. Great. Emotional oppression and slavery here you come! And FYI - *all Love-Bombed victims* believe their secretly narcissistic lover is their Soulmate. It's just a symptom of having been thus-far brainwashed. These women know you need them (or just FEEL you need them) as merely a MEANS TO YOUR REAL END - A.S.A.P. FINDING A PERMANENT HOME that offers a lucrative-enough career. And so they use your need to hold over your head, in order to become your owner and get to dictate to you about how to be and behave, i.e. gain control over you. Again, even if you were the biggest a-hole on the planet, they still don't have a right to try imposing their will over yours, rather than just concluding like a grown-up that you're not right for them in the long run and therefore end it and wait for someone more compatible. WHAT internet read-ups? Mills & Boon? "today when i thought i was going to lose her, after yet another one of her tough confrontations last night, my heart was racing and i was literally shaking..... this has never happened with belgium girl... IT MUST MEAN SOMETHING?" Yes. EU woman (WOMAN!) has her own reasons and issues, but she ISN'T a coercive controller. And you're still addicted to Drama (despite I know not at what age you were forced to become addicted) because you think drama is the same as passion and love. Nope. Soulmates are contented and peaceful and discuss disagreements or clashes of expectations or standards, without once raising their voice, talking frantically as well as over each other, issuing fake ultimatums intended to make the other toe their line, or ANYTHING reminiscent of cheap, daytime soap scripts. Dump them both and plan an emigration that depends purely on YOU. Without any self-made or invited monkeys on your back, I´ll bet you'll get where you want to go, that much faster AND become established and successful faster. Who on EARTH made you, a grown man, believe that you need women to make achieving your dreams possible?

Understand this: Bullies can have good, even GREAT days, where they fancy a day off bullying and/or simply feel like being nice to you, i.e. behave like a normal, pleasant individual. USUALLY because you're doing and saying all the right things, and they're pleased as punch. But, like a loaded gun, half the time you never know when they're going to go off and the other half of the time, YOU DO. Jekyll & Hyde, and, Walking On Eggshells (even without your realising you are). This Balinese woman TANTRUMS whenever you don't behave as she wants and expects. And even irresponsibly self-harms (drinks before cycling) and can't RESIST showing you her injury - just to up her ante of trying to force your hand. THAT'S NOT NORMAL, ADULT BEHAVIOUR, that's Toddler behaviour. So she looks great for a 4-year-old, does she? (And a spoilt one, at that...a little despot?) Whoopie-bloody-doo, ...sign me up...*I* want one...why should *you* have all the fun? ...NOT. If you are under the lifelong illusion that this kind of childish, histrionic behaviour is normal, as in, par for the course from all the people you've shared any intimacy of relationship with in your lifetime, then you, my friend, have been desensitised to narcissistic behaviour, whereby you attract or choose them because you're used to that type and can (sort-of-but-not-really) function with them. Noooo, you can't. Ref your constant commitmentphobia and so-called inability to make a decision. Inability to make a decision that overrides the wishes of the more self-preservationist, sensible and insightful animal inside you, more like. The one that daren't get close and stay close to what you deeper-down know are witting or unwitting abusers. So, Goldilocks...beneath its uppermost surface, Belgian woman's porridge is too cold and impermeable. Bali woman's porridge is too hot and in-your-face demanding. Ever thought of cutting out all future prospects except for healthier women with impeccable manners whom also act their ages? You're not fit to date yet. You're still reeling AND still thinking you're the boss of all aspects of you (inner ape says, HA-HA-HA-HA! and makes you fancy a banana). "Feel free to disect and comment" Oh, NOW you tell me! I had to take a chance on making a unilateral decision there. (LOL ,-)) Come on - wake UP. STOP this nonsense. They're women, not horses! Stop riding the ones in whose secret interests it is to let you BELIEVE you can ride them, only to buck you off when you're least expecting it and possibly trampling you into the dirt. AT YOUR AGE. Cuh!

Your alternative is this (albeit it working requires her to be behaving according to bad role-modelling rather than having NPD herself): Write her a letter, that basically says, **************** "Dear BB, This whole emigration malarchy is so damned bubble-popping and levelling that, WHILE I'm sat here, after having hit the ground with a very hard bump, I need you and I to GET REAL for a minute so as to both get control of the situation and our emotional states. We do NOT love each other truly-madly-deeply. Yet. That is something that grows over time and a heck of a lot of shared experience. It DAWNS on you. We DO both know that. What WE have is a fantastic Honeymoon rush, also known as, are IN-love with each other. It's just the DOORWAY, not the destination. There's a whole, long path beyond that door. Truth is, we are confusing the sensation of, by-now, desperate, mutual Need for a portion of our mutual feelings of attraction. I need you on a practical level (your help to get my better life going) as much as you, evidently, need me on a practical level (helping get your hotel, i.e. YOUR better life going). And that is perfect for kidding ourselves that we're properly in-love already, if... ...We obviously both have a guilty consciences over our nagging suspicion that we might be however-much (shock-horror!) USING the other, which must make us HORRID USERS, and, therefore, would rather deny being "users" by kidding ourselves our desperation is down to our instant "Love", not our impatience to get on with gaining financial security. This is SO unnecessary. There is nothing wrong with having a needs compatibility. But there IS everything wrong with trying to keep it a dirty secret from one another, in the process, excusing it as something more "lofty". All we have to to make this process easier is accept that we two people who are only just getting to explore each other AND the reasons for such attraction...people who, as a SIDE-bonus, also happen to have conveniently compatible self-interests that can quite easily become shared interests but, even if not, at least can be achieved with a 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours', Team-mates attitude. I see nothing wrong with that. Do you? Secondly, and with the "elephant in the room" now identified - PLEASE try to relax. I really am doing my best. If you can't relax then at least catch a flight over here to help me get my official documentation sorted out, rather than keep panicking all over me and increasing my already sky-high stress levels. Fair enough? Good plan? (etc., mushy sentiments....) PS: I'm currently driving some moderator on a forum round the bend and calling it Entertaining." (joke) ************* What do you think?

Do you know what, though? Turns out you were right! They ARE girls - NOT women! Ha-ha! No WONDER you couldn't stop yourself (your inner animal) from insisting on still saying it! Well, you may not know your arse from your elbow very well on a conscious level, but it looks like there's nothing wrong and everything right with your inner furry friend alright! How many times has HE saved your life, then? I now think you're over-conscious...plugged really well into your external environment but not quite so well-connected to your internal one. Were you constantly nagged and criticised, growing up? ....Girls Interrupted (one hot, one cold) meet Boy Interrupted (bit passive and over-dependent, still) and wonder why they're not their true ages yet thus can't qqqqqquite manage adult things without pairing up and leaning on each other as they limp and prop each other up, the rest of the way up their recovery paths. It doesn't actually make limping any easier because, the weight they allevitate from your shoulders by letting you lean on them, they automatically cancel-out through the weight they add as they lean on YOU. So, truthfully, it's just a sense of moral support and companionship. But she has GOT to cease tantrum-ing and being irresponsible like that - at her age! It's Narcissistic behaviour, whether or not she's simply replicating what she got taught and normalised, growing-up. And you've got to stop being so oblivious as you struggle and wave your arms around, whacking other people nearest you repeatedly in the face. And I've got to stop staying-up too late again. Night!

well, i must say that was an informative and compelling read! Thanks for the time (at the time of day you did) to write it! For the first time someone actually gives me something concrete to think about! to reply to some comments: How long in total have you known her? (physical contact 2 months but chatting 10) i met her in Sept 2021 when i was in Bali. She had sent her (belgian) husband back home two months prior to our meeting because he became a depressed alcoholic (apparently due to covid). and she couldnt handle him anymore. when we met, we both immediately felt a strong connection and funny enough, the second day i saw her she asked me where i was living - to which i replied that i was still looking for a proper place. She then invited me to stay in her house with her. I duly returned to the place i was at, packed my bags and moved to her. I stayed here for a month and a bit when Belgian girl summoned me back home using bullying tactics telling me my fun and games time is over and i need to "come home to start working". I allowed her to dictate to me and i returned home. THis fact still haunts me to this day. It is exactly THIS kind of behaviour that always makes me feel like "less of a person with his own rights and wishes". You see, she is scorpio (they are actually both scorpios) and a very headstrong one at that. She has this uncanny ability to make me feel inferior and worthless, like my opinions dont matter, a fact that strikes a nerver and ever so often makes me lash out in frustration, at which time i regurgitate words like a bird feeding its young. During these times she just listens to me and then after acts as if all is well. NONE of the things i rant about are ever addressed. anyway, i then returned to my country where i visited my family for 3 months, when belgian girl once again summoned me to her saying we need to start the process and start working. In this time i was speaking to bali girl every day, for hours on end. video calling etc. SO we became quite close (dependant) with each other. My country was blocked from obtaining visas to INDO so i had to wait. I then told bali i had to go to belgium to sort my things out there and that i would come to her as soon as i could get a visa. i then proceeded to belgium where i stayed for 3 months, in this time waiting for my letter of no impediment to marriage from my country so belgian girl could submit it along with all other required docs to register a co=-habitation agreement (similar to common law marriage). Just before my documents arrived , january 2022, i decided to go to bali as visas were open again and bali was pushing me to come. i told belgium girl i wanted to go there to check business opportunities and she,although she was highly critical about business there, allowed me to go under the assumption that i would stay there 3 months and if all works well she would join me there. (OBVIOUSLY NOT MY PLAN) i wanted to go see if i could live with bali girl and set up a business there so i could stay with her. bali girl asked me if i had broken up with belgium and because she so many times before threatened me with blocking me and walking away i said YES fearing all would be lost if i said NO. anyway, i left and went to bali. During my 6 night quarantine, i felt really nervous about going to bali and also realized that i stood a chance to lose belgium if she ever found out about the real reason i was going to bali. SO, clash of conscience, and i wanted to leave quarantine and return home. bali girl saw i was not ok, and kept persuading me to come. eventually, i got the airport in jakarta, and was about to take the flight home, when i told bali i was not coming she once again persuaded me to do so and i cancelled my flight home and took a flight to bali as i had gone through everything already to get there (and paid the price). when i arrived there all was well. A few days later she had to move out of her and her ex's house and she had found a house for US to move into. i helped her move into the house and set everything up. i also paid 50% of the rent, water, electricity, kitchen appliances and all things needed for the house. so, we started living together and had a great easy going time. She didnt want to involve me with her villas yet as she wanted confirmation that i would be staying. SHe selectively introduced me to SOME of her friends as she also didnt want them to see us together and then risk me leaving later and her not being able to explain why. her family obviously also dont know about me. so i stayed there 1.5 months in January/feb this year. During this time i told her i have not yet broken up with belgium and explained why..she obviously didnt agree that it was her pressure that forced me to lie about it.... so since then she was constantly forcing me to break up with belgium, understandably so. NOW, life was perfect and we were enjoying each others company. Then belgium started calling me and wanted feedback on how the restaurant research was going. When i told her i thought it would not be easy she said, well then lets not waste time further and come back, your documents have arrived and we can start the CO-HAB process. i didnt want to and over the next few weeks she constantly nagged me to come back. at one point bali said i must break up with her and send her a message then ignore her. SO i did, and over the next few days i kept getting emotional hurt voice notes and text and it made me feel SO BAD. She kept at it and i was lying down paralyzed with this indecision in my head. At this point i still didnt know IF or HOW me and bali girl would do a restaurant together and still did not see her villas so i had no idea about how to make a living there. So, belgium persuaded me to come back and i thought - damn, europe is my only chance to make a living, i dont belong in bali as i am not one of those foreigners with retirement money or savings that can just move there and live happily ever after without a job of some sort. so i reluctantly agreed and returned to belgium The minute i landed and i saw her at the airport my heart sank to my shoes and i was sorry i returned. I really DIDNT WANT TO BE BACK WITH HER. BUT it was too late. so i had to act that all was well. i have been acting this way for the last 2 months here. now the co-habitation is on the way and belgian girl has to pay tax every month for 6 months to show she can support me so i can get a residence permit. as i have the temporary permit she wants me to start working immediately. I REALIZE THIS MEANS THAT I WILL HAVE TO STICK WITH HER FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS TILL MY EU PASSPORT IS ISSUED AND THIS SCARED THE LIFE OUT OF ME. I AM ALREADY DEAD INSIDE, WILL I LAST ANOTHER 5 YEARS?? this is part of the reason i wanted to go to Bali. there i can be myself with someone of MY CHOOSING, yes, she has issues, and yes, you are correct that it is Narcissistic, but i can handle it when i am face to face with her. from here it is a huge hassle... A life in BALI would be the ONLY way for me to change my life and enjoy the next 5 years of my life without having to do the normal daily 8-5 work cycle based lifestyle. i so desperately want to get out of this cycle and away from belgian girl. she makes me lose my manhood when i am around her. she sucks my life out of me. What if you wash your hands of both of them, instead? Why do you have to have women to land on, anyway? I cannot go back to my country as there are no jobs for white males of 51 years. also, i am already here, busy with the residence permit, and this could be a ticket to a better life. thats why i am so TORN between going to Bali, having the girl i want, and staying here for THE SAKE OF THE FUTURE but i have to stick it out with the girl i dont want. Can`t you formulate a Plan C that you achieve independently, exclusively by your own steam? this current process is the only option i have to get a decent future. so all i can do is focus on a job here, bite the bullet and when i am on my feet i will move out and do my own thing. Before coming here i had issues - these i discussed with belgium from bali -- one of the concerns were... (because i already knew i wasnt happy with her) what if something happens between us in future, if we end our relationship surely belgium will want me to leave? SHE replied that she would NOT be vindictive and will let me move out and we can keep the agreement intact. THIS I OBVIOUSLY DONT BELIEVE FOR A SECOND.. .i know how hurt women react... she will want to EXORCISE ME FROM HER LIFE. so yes, fast forward to today. after last nights sage with me not taking calls from BALI, she didnt send me 1 message after all my nice messages and pictures i sent her last night, BUT at 9am when she knows i get up every day, she tried calling me. i looked at the call coming in AFTER READING YOUR MESSAGES ABOVE, and said to myself .. "Screw this, i am taking control and i will not let her treat me like this again, today i will not speak to her and will show her i am in charge - what will happen will happen" SO, she tries calling again and i sent her a nice message -- see below messages this morning. EM = ME, AND BALI IS HER (OBV) [9:53 am, 26/04/2022] EM: Good afternoon. I hope you had a good day and will have a good evening too! I hope you wont get hurt again like you did last night. I am sorry but i cannot take any calls now as i am unable to speak. I can do so in a bit when everyone has gone out. I will call you when that has happened. [8:55 am, 26/04/2022] BALI: Sorry for bother ! [9:56 am, 26/04/2022] EM: no bother. [10:02 am, 26/04/2022] EM: flight mode again? OK, i think its time i tell you why you behave like this (this is not insulting or criticism). (i am sure when you read this you will identify a few aspects of your own behavior - things you do on a daily basis) Narcissistic personality disorder this is one of several types of personality disorders — it is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration , troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others . But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism [10:03 am, 26/04/2022] EM: Symptoms Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can: Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it Exaggerate achievements and talents Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations Take advantage of others to get what the… [10:03 am, 26/04/2022] EM: At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can: Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation [9:04 am, 26/04/2022] BALI: Thanks you [10:04 am, 26/04/2022] EM: *DO YOU SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS"? AND WHY YOU BEHAVE THE WAY YOU DO? [10:04 am, 26/04/2022] EM: know now why i say that i UNDERSTAND YOU? [10:05 am, 26/04/2022] EM: please do us both a favor and read this 👆👆👆👆 and carefully think about it [9:06 am, 26/04/2022] BALI: Go get a life thanks I don't need you comment [10:06 am, 26/04/2022] EM: try to put your ego and sense of self-entitlement down for a minute and try understand why you behave the way you do [9:06 am, 26/04/2022] BALI: And go talk to others people when u available I don't need you! [9:06 am, 26/04/2022] BALI: Thanks bro ciao [10:06 am, 26/04/2022] EM: Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior [10:07 am, 26/04/2022] EM: the road to recovery starts with you ACKNOWLEDGING you see a problem [10:07 am, 26/04/2022] EM: ANYWAY, i am the ONLY peson in YOUR life that gets YOU [10:08 am, 26/04/2022] EM: soon, when everyone is out i will call you. IF you are smart enough to be online and available, we will talk, IF NOT, your loss. [9:11 am, 26/04/2022] BALI: GO GET A LIFE I DONT NEED YOU TO CALL ME !GO CALL OTHER PEOPLE WHO AVAILABLE FOR YOU WHEN YOU HAVE TIME OR U CAN CHEATING WHEN U MILF NOT AROUND so, here we are. NOW i am blocked again on whatsapp, unfriended from insta and she unshared location once again. LETS see how that plays out. GUESS I WAS RIGHT NOT BUYING THE VISA.... and you are right, every day i was walking on eggshells, fearing that one wrong move would crack one and i would end up with expensive yolk on my face (and i actually hate eggs)

to add, to this when she was little something happened to her, apparently she doesnt know what, but she died somehow and came back to life. this resulted in her parents virtually locking her up and keeping her away from the outside world. she grew up to a certain age, and ran away from home a few times. every time they found her they would beat her with a stick. the last time she ran away she had help and she then through the help of an agency she somehow managed to secure a job as a child minder in singapore. she was extremely young, 12 or 14 i think without her parents knowing where she was. she worked with them for years and the mom in the house taught her things her own mother never did. well she returned from there years later, not even knowing how much salary she was supposed to get or got from them, she allowed them to deposit money into her account without control or insight. this is evident today as she has no clue what money is and if you say 1000 000 she doesnt know it means million... so she has no clue. she lives from the bank account to the mouth, she will easily spend 250usd on a steak without batting an eyelid. so, in many areas she is extremely ignorant. she even married her ex husband purely because he asked and she thought he was a nice guy so why not. he did to protect his businesses in bali from the government at the time she did not marry for love - she does not know what love is. so, a work in progress. so i assume this narcissistic behavior stems from the childhood and the fact that she has gotten away with murder from a very young age. lets see what happens today. i will reflect the movements here blow by blow. BUT i must tell you, after reading your posts this morning, i am of the mindset "the hell with it, if it works out good, if not its for the better" yes, i really wanted that lifestyle and a funky younger girl to live it with, but do i really want to always fear the day she gets upset with me about something and throws me out? there the balinese women have all the rights... if she wants me deported she simply has to go to the police and they will throw me out of bali. so i would totally be at her mercy and will have to pacify her all the time thats why my repulsion at going back to my country prevented me to a large extent from going to bali. some food for thought.

alright, here is the promised update: So i emailed her and told her that she was wrong to act in that manner after she blocked me. She replied defending herself and then said we are over and "have a good life" A while later i see whatsapp messages come in and see that she unblocked me. she then continues talking about the fact that i dont understand her etc etc. long story short, she unblocks me on insta, facebook and google maps. then we had a long chat and she says she really loves me and she becomes like that because she cant be without me and me living with my gf here is obviously a problem so, we are good again. NOW, after my thoughts about this matter this morning, i was ready to focus here, start getting a job and my plan was to move into my own place in 4 months time when i get my residency card.. Problem with that plan i foresee is that the minute i move out the government might ask me to leave as i am no longer living with my partner. anyway, so i was ready to do this process. realizing very well that i plan to leave Belg girl in the near future. then with me and bali sorting our things out, i am again pulling that way. NOW im back to square one..... i need to decide as soon as possible what i want to do... i need to buy plane tickets etc...

Hey Soulmate, are you around?

"to reply to some comments: How long in total have you known her? (physical contact 2 months but chatting 10) i met her in Sept 2021 when i was in Bali. She had sent her (belgian) husband back home two months prior to our meeting because he became a depressed alcoholic (apparently due to covid). and she couldnt handle him anymore." I beg your pardon? You're trying to tell me you're ready to commit, for life, to a woman you've known for only 2 piddly months - and not even in any basic day-to-day way as would at least have posed as SOME sort of more realistic compatibility-test thus basis for making a life-changing decision? And at your age? As if you didn't already know that couples all over the western world normally even wait up to a whole YEAR (or at the very least, 6 months) before acknowledging nothing more important than having reached Steadies status! Plus, she was only 2 months into grieving her marriage and the effects of the abuse that comes with that situation!...HENCE, she sent him back! Reading this, and being very short of time as it is, I've decided this is as far as I can go, I`m afraid. Sorry. I can't justify spending my overly scant time by joining you in a delusion by treating a mere 2-month DALLIANCE as if a bona-fide relationship, or one established enough to even remotely justify your moving countries in the first place. This is nothing more than a lengthy first date. Two months of infatuation, conducted mainly through lots of sex, in an holiday type of setting (at that - under the dynamic of Host And Her Guest!), between a newly widowed and post-traumatic woman and a man who seems to view women as taxis out of any places and situations he doesn't want to be in, as if he were only half a person and didn't have enough steam of his own. Wake up, Elusiveman. The pair of you are disturbingly unrealistic for your ages. Failure of either of these two foundational aspects (pairbonding and starting a new life) is almost guaranteed under such childishly tenuous conditions. Well, anyway, I don't fix mere impulses based themselves on unrealistic set-ups, because, by their nature, they and the set-up and all my hard work could go POOF! at any moment...bit like starting to write a novel on the side of a Number 39 bus when it pulls into the Stop, Secondly, I now have a lady on another thread who has a very severe, potentially life-threatening problem, relying on me. Yours are internal issues, which go quite a way back and have become all tangled-up. No forum could do you justice, it would require formal, face-to-face counselling. I wish you luck, though.

Quick PS: ""Screw this, i am taking control and i will not let her treat me like this again, today i will not speak to her and will show her i am in charge - what will happen will happen"" Grown adults who refuse to any longer tolerate how their partner (date) treats and deals with them, telephones them and calmly, quietly says so and explains how it makes them feel. This opens honest (= effort-less) communication and allows the antagonist to explain why she felt like behaving like that. They then remove the Harmony-blocker together, like the team they are. Your way spells pouring oil onto the fire, by adding a new issue: being childish in a hurtful way instead of merely using your big boy words. You two, the pair of you, are too young to play grown-up relationships yet. Your behaviours make that VERY clear. Focus on changing (or in your case, establishing) your career. Apply for a course abroad and get a student visa. That would be the best, most intelligent advice I could give you.