Problem with mom, sorry long

I am angry at my mom…..she is very passive aggressive. My siblings and I are not that close, she used to pin us against each other as children, they rarely see her. After high school I put myself through nursing school and got accepted into school to be a nurse practitioner. My dad died and she claimed she got no money and asked for me to help her financially. I did and didn’t go to school. I met my ex-husband and got married shortly after. He turned out to be a gambler, he gambled a lot of our money away and we lost the house due to foreclosure. I got divorced and left with my kids and got a small 2-bedroom apartment, they had their own room and I slept in living room with a pull-out couch, was to be temporary. Ex-husband was court ordered to take me off mortgage as he screamed in court that he was not giving me the house. Judge ordered him to take me off mortgage. He sent me an email that if I didn’t go back to him he would foreclose on the house. My lawyer said he is bluffing and not to answer. I took lawyer’s advice and he foreclosed. Ruined my credit. My mom and I reconnected and I started to rebuild my life. Mom moved three hours away to marry my late stepfather. Ever since my divorce she kept telling me she wanted her grandkids in a house and wanted to help me buy one. I Kept telling her I couldn’t by a house due the foreclosure. Now I am good, the foreclosure is off of my credit report and my credit score is 800!! Last year when she was single she brought up me buying house, and said she had $50,000 to give me for down payment, and when she passed I would not get a inheritance. She said she didn’t want my fiancé on the house, she was giving the money to me only. We agreed that if she needed care in her older years she would live with us. I found a house right away and put down an offer and called her. By that time, she had a new boyfriend and said he told her not to do it and she had to respect his wishes. I lost the sale… About a month after that she brought it up again with my fiancé there. She told him I misunderstood her and she wants to give me the money. She slipped up and told fiancé that she got a lot of money when my dad died, told me she got nothing. (My late step father once told me, “Don’t let her sh*t you, she has more money than all of us.”) I found another house and got approved for a mortgage, which counted her down payment. The mortgage guy wanted to talk to her and when I told her she said her money is none of his business and she won’t be talking to him. Then said her boyfriend told her I should just get a bigger apartment. I decided I could not trust her and told realtor the that I am going to wait until housing goes down. I decided I don’t want her money and will do this myself. I have money saved but not enough for a down payment as housing where I live is very expensive. My son is disabled and has two years of high school and fiancé’s son has three years of high school. We don’t want to marry until all kids are out of school in their respective schools (different districts). I decided to take some savings and take kids to Disney Land. When kids told mom and her boyfriend, boyfriend said to her, “Instead of being a martyr and giving money to the neighbors and your friends, you should give your daughter and grandkids to go to Disney.” Then I realized she lied about him telling her not to give me money. The look she gave him was PURE EVIL. She then said to him as if I wasn’t there, “If she needs it I will give it to her.” I said we are fine we don’t need money (this was right before a holiday). We went home and she called me later to tell me that her boyfriend told her she is a bad mom because she never asked me what I’m doing on the holiday and she should include me and kids in her plans. I told her me, fiancé and kids all had plans that day. She got all giddy and said ok. Lastly, she called me about a month ago upset that one of her friends lost her housing and was homeless, and her kids would not take her in. She asked if I would do that to her. I told her there is no room (My apartment is tiny, I don’t have a bedroom, I am on the fourth floor and she doesn’t visit because she hates climbing up the stairs, I have only one parking space, I live on a huge hill) but if I had a bigger place I would take her in. She laughed and said she is talking hypothetically only. She then missed my daughter’s high school graduation and my sons’ middle school graduation (Her ONLY grandkids) because she claimed she “was hinting around for a ride and no one took her up on it” yet drives across the world to see a man. How do I get over being angry and not care? Once again it has nothing to do with the money. I do not want to bring up the money to her as I know how she operates…she will feel guilty and give me the money, but I DON’T WANT IT! She did this in front of my kids so now they are disappointed….

Hi, MamaFlyZ, thanks for your patience! "How do I get over being angry and not care? Once again it has nothing to do with the money. I do not want to bring up the money to her as I know how she operates…she will feel guilty and give me the money, but I DON’T WANT IT! She did this in front of my kids so now they are disappointed…." Yes - deliberately in front of your kids. This woman can seriously harm kids (except for the strongest and most intelligent). Let's re-cap: Very passive aggressive Pitted her children against each other (to the extent where their relationships broke beyond repair) Today they refuse to see her You don't want to see her Asked you - HER OWN CHILD - to help HER financially ...which meant you sacrificing your self-funded career (right at the final lap), which she was no doubt perfectly aware of Her claim that she had no money - you've just discovered - was a LIE, meaning - your own mother CONNED you financially, two-fold (You decided to switch careers, becoming a wife, homemaker and mother...and the rest (most prestigious job in the world btw, thumbs-up!, but not what you'd been working your guts out towards) But you got saddled with a man who TURNED OUT TO HAVE A PRE-EXISTING serious addiction (burning money for the sake of Dopamine rushes) - and more besides, I'm sure (so - conned again, then) This man was hell-bent on SERIOUS REVENGE (to destroy your life) for your having dared to leave him despite anyone sane would (going too far + no accountability also noted) Noteably, YOU and the kids left the Former Marital Home, rather than him, despite it was a case of 3 of you -v- just him (didn't get the advice of a solicitor first?) CLEARLY have never had support and advice against any of this from your own mother (despite she "killed off" your siblings) - which so far equals, you Mum, she Child (TICK-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick....!) Ended up losing your house, credit ruined (you have a case against your solicitor there btw) Now living in a tiny place where you don't even have a bedroom (= credit ruined, house lost, savings gone, future security gone, lifestyle drastically lowered) You reconnected with her (despite all this) AND YET her response was to undo all that hard work and investment (there she goes again) on your part by moving 3 hours away (effectively playing Mountain going to Mohammad to a man) You then managed (giant kudos!!!) to recover your credit status She offered to help buy you a house - whether partly or wholly SO THAT SHE'D HAVE SOMEWHERE IN HER OLD AGE (i.e. downpayment on a private 'care home') Included a CLEAR THREAT to leave you no inheritance if you didn't accept (an offer you can't refuse) And even though it was YOU doing HER the future favour - had the GIANT CHEEK to pin a giant conditon on it (another threat) LIED so that she could JUST CHANGE HER MIND, in blaming her husband, as SET FIRE TO YOUR UPWARDLY MOBILE LADDER I.E. HOBBLED YOUR LIFE AGAIN Then tried to LIE HER WAY OUT OF THE LIE PS: "“Don’t let her sh*t you, she has more money than all of us.”" Yes, and she got that rich because she financially exploits and cons people closest to her (I'm right now trying not to grind my teeth or vomit - how's about you?) "I found another house and got approved for a mortgage, which counted her down payment. The mortgage guy wanted to talk to her and when I told her she said her money is none of his business and she won’t be talking to him." No. Because he was a financial expert and would have seen the extent of her accounts and assets. "Then said her boyfriend told her I should just get a bigger apartment. I decided I could not trust her and told realtor the that I am going to wait until housing goes down. I decided I don’t want her money and will do this myself." So she was all along basically FUTURE-FAKING. Good. You need her like you need a hole (sorry, another hole) in your head (she's already caused plenty). You're normal, VERY healthy (- "How NEVER To Be") and work VERY hard for everything you have and own. She's...well, you must know what she is, surely? "I have money saved but not enough for a down payment as housing where I live is very expensive. " Are you in UK? Yes, with this climate so up in the air it's far better to wait - prices will come down, and interest rates, especially if we hit a global recession. "My son is disabled and has two years of high school and fiancé’s son has three years of high school. We don’t want to marry until all kids are out of school in their respective schools (different districts)." Oh, joy!...normal-healthy-sounding partner at last! Yes, very sensible. Although, if you don't mind my asking - why marry at all if you don't plan to have kids? OMG - AND a disabled son? *drops to knees, bows like a wound-up toy, yells, "I'm Not Worthyyyy!"* If anyone didn't need a mother, it's you. Wow. I would say, that's effing lucky, but - it was because you never HAD one. You realise that, yes? Here, maybe she doesn't "give money" to her friends AKA NEIGHBOURS. Maybe she charges them extortionate interest. Does that sound so far-fetched, given that she clearly has no compunction about financially exploiting, controlling and conning her own baby? It doesn't to me. She's not your mother. She's your emotional and financial PARASITE and, merely, ex-INCUBATOR. Clear? I mean, it's obvious you are but, have this validation on me! YUCK!... ...Those two together, especially, spell Narcissistic Sociopath and no mistaking, NO MISTAKING. Clear as crystal. And with Spaths, it's always all about the money (and material goods), they're obsessed with it “Instead of being a martyr and giving money to the neighbors and your friends, you should give your daughter and grandkids to go to Disney.” GOD, yes! Charity begins at home. Especially in this climate. But she'd have to be mentally normal and healthy for that kind of intelligent, healthy, MATURE-MINDED reasoning to make any impression. "I decided to take some savings and take kids to Disney Land." You're an amazing Mum, do you know that? Lucky-lucky kids. Lucky-lucky fiance. Your heartless, self-serving, morally-corrupt (OH YES) incubator doesn't deserve even a tenth of you, let alone the whole package. But anyway, back to the rap-sheet: She LIES to her partner as well And demonstrated she can produce a look of "pure evil" (emphasised) Didn't want to include you in her plans but wanted to shut partner up - hence was happy and relieved that you had plans already, AND DIDN'T CARE THAT YOU COULD HEAR IT Then tried to emotionally manipulate reassurance over HER WELFARE out of you (The homeless friend story was a lie, she was just taking your temperature because you're the only kid that "might", only she wasn't sure since the "we have plans already") She doesn't care about practical impossibilities being the reason given - all she cared about was, YOU SAID NO (well done) (The can't climb your stairs was always just an excuse, you realise?) Literally incapable of making herself vulnerable via honesty with her own child, she pretended she didn't care and fake-laughed it off. Then... REVENGE TIME! ...for your having made her live by her LIE about the stairs, etc. (ie. suffer her own consequences, AND counter-threat about the promised house deposit) : Deliberately didn't attend HER ONLY GRANDBABYS' (using kids as coshes, and who cares if kids get injured too, anyone?) landmark event. With a DELIBERATELY pathetic, ILLOGICAL, TRANSPARENT lie as her excuse (an extra punch) That is hitting HARD below the belt, for sure. Oh, she's an absolutely digusting, appalling specimen, isn't she? She's not human. Hence, doesn't work as one. All that sadistic (yes, sadistic) punching shows she has potential for that level of violence (oh, yes, violence) to come out into the open, btw, e.g. if ever backed into a corner, exposed, or abandoned - so please keep that in mind (although I will, no worries - if you want my accompaniament). It would be my UTTER PRIVILEGE to help you from A-Z to get her out of your system for-good, MamaFly - and in as record time as legitimately possible (you've had enough crap and wasted time as it is). My posting attendance is unavoidably a bit patchy these days but it's only ever a case of When, not If (see Lily's thread - Parents Splitting Up). Thoughts, please, Mrs Ultra-Cool? :-)

PS: She is not passive-aggressive (no voluntary control...leaks out). She's COVERT-aggressive (knows what she's deliberately and purposefully doing). Please, from now on, don't mistake the two because misinterpretations or cognitive bias like this can be your Kryptonite.

Tsk - lost a chunk: 'or cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias' You've seen the evil in the acts. You've even seen the evil in her face (she chose to flash her real face as is behind her mask to shock and scare you both into present and future submission) She consistently, pervasively behaves like a giant Machievelli as well as Malignantly Narcissistic and Sociopathic. She didn't need your money - except with which to hobble you. She didn't want you doing better than her (narc.), didn't want to see the contrast in the healthy, prosperous end-product of you compared to her, is always on the look-out to take money off of people, and didn't want you busy with a formal career as would make you less available to her and her needs. (Sorry) PS: Your stepdad has started rebelling against her, look. You have a Recovering Victim-Survivor ally. Don't do anything with that yet - I'll tell you when (again, if you want me to - just let me know).

PPS: Think very carefully... Play it again in your head (, Sam)... Just want to check: WAS it giddy in the sense of relief? Or was it giddy in the sense of trying to sound to her in-earshot husband like you'd in fact said Yes, and to 'prove' to him what she'd lied when he'd admonished her ("I DO want to see my daughter and family-no REALLY I do!"). Or a bit of both?

Lastly... And SHAME on her for having made you believe your dad hadn't left provision for her! Only, Spaths don't feel Shame. (See how easy it is to judge them by normal human standards as if that option is even open to them?) SHAME on her for....er....her genes and upbringing....and her parent(s)' genes and upbringing.....er......Adam and Eve?.......God? (I doubt it!) She's not your mother. She's not even her own...unlike you...whose weakener is "Kryptonite" (Freudian Slip or what! LOL)

I may not be a good person to answer, because no one holds a grudge like me. Or it may be that I am a good person to answer. She's terrible, and holding onto your anger is only hurting YOU, not her. She's not human enough to care. Your frustration doesn't hurt her, it just sucks any joy YOU might have out of the present. I don't know YOUR pain, but have had some reversals and had people double-cross me. I fall into the trap- I start getting fixated on one thing or another - and at this point in my life (I'm in my sixties) some of these people are actually dead. (I saw in the obits a man I dated briefly, and I actually said out loud, "You didn't deserve to live longer than my husband.") But then I remember that I'm responsible for my own nurturing and self care, and focusing on being a victim gives away all my power. If I were you, I would give your mother the cut direct, as in "She's dead to me." I wouldn't answer her calls, respond to emails, I would *acquire the habit* of not considering her at all. I wouldn't confront her because she'll either try to argue or lie outright, which personally I find infuriating. Sometimes parents don't deserve to be called parents. years ago there was a famous radio personality whose mother died - and wasn't found for weeks. They had been estranged for years. It happens.

Well, I don't know about that, OM, cos I'm finding your responses downright "shmokin" and pretty-much spot-on lately - and that was another good'un. *Thumbs-up* and please DO keep contributing on this topic. (After all, even if the OP doesn't return there are still the lurkers' DIY closures to consider.) Don't agree with your guilty conscience over "grudges" though. Those tend to be when no warranted apology and "making-up for it" have been forthcoming. Because unless one is Jesus (lol), forgiveness is supposed to be a two-person process like all two-equal-person interactions, the transgressor ASKING to be forgiven; otherwise, it's Understanding leading to Acceptance as your closure, a la: he/she is disturbed and doesn't work right, hence there was no equality thus no power-share and co-creativity ergo no co-responsibility, so nothing I tried either way would have worked, I myself behaved with good intention and the other's interests ahead/equal to mine, so at least I can walk away with my own head held high.) The truth is: Guns aren't dangerous unless the person who holds it means to do ill with it, and isn't, by any sane, rational standards or stretch of the imagination, justified. INTENTION and whether the person was JUSTIFIED are everything. So by the same token, Grudges aren't unhealthy unless the transgressor's genuinely tried their absolute hardest to seek the victim's forgiveness AND to make it up to them (proof) - WITHOUT any hidden gain or guarantee that the victim intends to continue the relationship (it's called living up to one's morals and standards, *regardless* of outcome/gain, innit). We Normal-Healthies with Empathy, aka perfect num-nums for those without, all know that with the exception of where the transgression is too inhumane to be forgiveable by any mere mortal - when someone DOES sincerely deliver a deeply heartfelt apology with explanation that clears it all up (not just word but a DEED that proves it's to make US feel better), we, the transgressed, tend to melt on the spot. We also tend to immediately switch to feeling guilty for having made a mere mistake-maker feel quite so bad/worried ("It's okayyyy"), albeit, that's just a product of the crime having just been minimised THE RIGHT WAY by said proper request for your forgiveness. A grudge, therefore, is what happens when your innate human willingness to understand and forgive (a mistake or lapse under duress, etc.), has deliberately been BLOCKED (so as to add Insult to Injury via denying us Justice, as proves it was no mistake). Also, it's part of the grieving process to get fixated for a fair while. We beans have exploratory minds that desperately and impatiently NEED to know where we stand (particularly when we've been knocked off our spot) so, without the transgressor clearing up all the whys and wherefores (to *our* satisfaction), we're left with no choice but to play sole Crime Detective, working serious overtime, when it comes to finding a way to turn down/off our pain. And here's a little mindbender for ya: his out-living your husband might not have been a case of reward but of punishment or even torture. You're assuming he ENJOYED being alive, whereas, people who backstab to the degree where other people find them being undeserving of forgiveness because they act like they don't care one way or the other, tend to absolutely detest it. I've always and STILL maintain that these malignants ultimately (unconsciously) choose us because they believe that as empaths we are capable of holding out for longer than the average as can then make comeback more explosive than the average (which is why you push you beyond the patience of a saint), with us losing the plot and KILLING them ("Abused wife, 70, finally cracks and fatally stabs husband with Ketchup bottle across kitchen table"). A life without positive feelings like hope, anticipation, fondness and just generally the warm fuzzies.......talk about day after week after month after year being so dull it's like a living death? Little wonder the maligs are Dopamine addicts and thrill-seekers. (How did this specimen die, btw? Did it say?) Lastly but not leastly, you don't give away all your power, and indeed, regain it, if you focus on the fact you're an EX-victim now SURVIVOR. :-) Anyhoo, please do join in - meanwhile, I've gathered some pertinently informative vids and articles on the Spath female and Spath mugger-I mean mother (OR DO I. Lol)

PS: " I wouldn't confront her because she'll either try to argue or lie outright, which personally I find infuriating." Agree again - oh, DEFINITELY don't confront her! It could turn really nasty. These are the psychopath's thick, hot-headed, impulsive, rash cousins, far more prone to turning violent (psychologically or physically or both) when shown-up, than actual psychos, who see turning physically violent as scraping the intelligence barrel and on the whole, will injure/kill only to remove a serious threat/barrier to what they're hell-bent en-route on achieving (or as an experiment for the rarer, odd-loner type, brrr). And "which personally I find infuriating." - OH GOD YES! (Psst...! : FivePetalPromise (formerly Transmutation, ShadowPerson, Ann-Marie...) is a fairly regular troll (I quite quickly recognised how she acts/talks) who fancies herself a good enough playwrite and character actor to con credulity and sympathy-led attention out of empathetic victims (plus playing brick wall) and now 'rather sore' at the fact that this time she didn't even see me coming, especially when she was hoping it wouldn't be me this time (- "Giant Narc Nest"? - AS IF! LOL). She was loving it when she thought I was duped. I gave her enough rope and, sure enough, suddenly facts weren't gelling (zero Continuity - Jane Eyre wearing a digital wristwatch) and we effectively were left to believe that her sister or she HAD to be TELEPATHIC ("cornering query that requires removing the mask to punch the inquisitor away AND (hedging both bets) yet again nuclear bomb the failed thread, anyone"? lol lol... (Bugs voice) "Nyeeah...Sheee djon't knyow dish fowum tchoo wew, doo shee" LOL.

Oh, I don't feel *any* guilt about *remembering who done me wrong.* As a somewhat practicing Christian, I am encouraged to "forgive others their trespasses" as the Deity forgives mine. But that's not the only reason I try. Forgiveness [suck at it, myself] keeps me from reliving old hurts. YMMV. It really does *me* no good to perseverate on things that are over and done with. That dude who died - his obit was the normal one with two children he adored and a mother of them who apparently he never married. He did die fairly young, though. The fact that one of my parents adored my sister and was pretty ambivalent about me: meh, nothing I can do about that, the folks are dead. They both did the best they could [really!]. One did a little better than the other ;-) I did fall into that trap - recently, too - why, if it wasn't for that pivotal time in my youth, my whole life would have been...uhh, no point going there. The experiences I didn't have with my family in my youth - well, I've had decades to do those very things *for myself*. People don't always get what's due them. Sometimes they do. Another old beau died last year. His frat brother was someone I'd reconnected with on Fakebook, and he messaged me about the death. "Mark thought the world of you" he wrote. I was careful (because he was experiencing grief, even if I wasn't) in expressing the idea that had Mark valued me, the end of our relationship might not have been so adversarial. But THAT man's obituary was sparse. There were no children. (He told me himself he'd walked away from at least two women he'd impregnated; they'd terminated their pregnancies) There was no spouse or long-term companion. No passions: no bowling league, nor involvement in the arts, or politics. Besides three jobs, nothing, except as a child he'd collected stamps and coins. (He had more than three jobs just in the years we dated. I guess the jobs listed were ones he hadn't been fired from?) I have had a tendency to think "If I was younger/prettier/better educated/wealthier/had larger mammary glands people would treat me better." Not exactly - SOME would - but decent people treat *everyone* decently, don't they?

9 Signs Your Mom Might Be A Sociopath - by Carina Wolff, Psychologist and Wellness Guru https://www.bustle.com/p/9-signs-your-mom-might-be-a-sociopath-65407 ((My double-parentheses for additional info/clarification/findings. As yet, not all the lay-friendly info available on the web agrees. E.g, this applies to male Spaths too, the only real difference between the genders being how they view – or fail to view – their kids: the female tends not to want them except as tools for hooking their male victim and sources of supply, the male seems to just go round, impregnanting then abandoning as many women as possible.)) “Unfortunately, not everyone has the best relationship with their mother, and sometimes, it's because your mom might be suffering from mental illness that makes it hard to get along with her. If your relationship with your mom is questionable, there may be some signs your mom is a sociopath. Although the personality disorder isn't terribly common, if your mom has exhibited some alarming tendencies in the past, including extreme lack of empathy, it may be the case that she has this particular mental disorder.” ((NPD/AsPD doesn’t need to be that common because (1) Narcissistic Sociopaths, each can have up to 15 other con- or romantic-con-interests/victims on the go or waiting, warmed on the side to go, and (2) the statistics reflect mainly only those caught in the judicial/mental health system's net. The rest are “amongst us, hiding in plain sight”, albeit that a sociopath, exposed, having no attachment even to a home, won’t think twice about ‘doing a runner in the night’ to another city or country. (...Shame Mars isn’t ready.)) "Sociopathy, which is actually called 'Antisocial Personality Disorder,' is an enduring disorder marked by lack of empathy, callousness, egocentrism, and an incapacity for reciprocal intimate relationships," says Rebecca Burton, LMFT over email. "In my practice, clients who believe their mother is sociopathic truly struggle — with the relationship with their mother of course, but sometimes in other areas of their lives. The basic lack of empathy from a parental figure leaves a painful void in their lives. They often must learn empathy, since they did not witness it receive it as children." 1 She's Nice To Others & Mean To You “Sociopaths are able to turn on a superficial charm when they want something from others, so those not related to you but ((sic – ‘will’) be used to seeing your mom's good side. "How confusing it is to be her daughter," says Burton. "People love her and praise her sparkling personality, her generosity, or her intelligence. But behind closed doors, she's cruel and hurtful." 2 She Never Apologizes Because sociopaths are so self-focused, your mom likely never apologizes about the times she was wrong. "She never, ever says she's sorry, and she doesn't believe she has to," says Burton. "She's the star of her own life, and she is ruthless about getting her needs met." ((They CAN fake-apologise if it’ll stop the conversation from leading to exposure of the real them, e.g. when they can tell it’s a Crunch Time situation, e.g. if ever on serious probation with you, but they prefer to endlessly try on every plausible-sounding justification or excuse out, as these particular bozos get such a thrill and ego-boost from duping and winning at all and any costs, even by force of illogic.)) 3 She Steals From You "She steals your money, your credit rating, or your boyfriend," says Burton. "She takes what she wants, with no remorse. This could mean using your social security number to take out credit cards, tapping into your bank account, or sending inappropriate messages to your sweetheart. What she wants, she believes she should have." ((If you’re too useful a tool to lose - sabotages any dreams of yours that involve you gaining independence and becoming better at her than something, e.g. your plans to travel or study abroad, your career, love-life… They also adopt (steal) your unique opinions, personality quirks and sayings. They’ll even help themselves to unwrapping your Xmas or Birthday presents. And always, always find ways to ruin every other special occasion.) 4 She Makes Fun Of You When You Cry ((And/or gets irritated/angry with you even if she was the cause, thereby wounding you again, even worse)) Because sociopaths have a lack of empathy ((and conscience)), they won't find it upsetting when you're upset. "Most children, even as adults, naturally look to their parents for comfort, reassurance, or understanding," says Burton. "The child of a sociopath gets just the opposite. Therapy can be helpful to address the confusion, pain, and grief that comes with having a sociopathic mother." ((If HE/SHE cries, however, they expect what they denied YOU. "Ah, but this is different" is a stock phrase of theirs.)) 5 She Purposely Hurts Others Some conflict comes from lack of maturity, restraint, or understanding, but a sociopathic mother knows when her actions can cause harm to others — she just doesn't care. "Your mom creates opportunities for you to get hurt, and then finds it funny to watch your pain, sometimes pointing it out to others, rather than protecting your privacy and helping to comfort you," says Burton. 6 She Manipulates You "You have a sense that you are manipulated when you are with her, but it's so subtle, you can't put your finger on it," says psychologist Dr. Helen Odessky over email. "This isn't your average guilt trip. You find yourself agreeing to things readily and later wonder how it happened. Someone with antisocial personality disorder will often be a skillful manipulator." ((Some consider Narc-Spaths the most manipulative, Gaslighting, Cluster B of all (including Machievellianism, constantly plotting and machinating) - even having a victim-hypnotising effect. But they can also be the most domineering and controlling, especially once they hit Devalue stage in their warped, "merry-go-round" programme loop (think LP record with a deep scratch 2 inches in, where the needle keeps jumping back towards the start = the fight followed by the make-up as shunts you back, meaning, the Spath never bonds to you deeper than 6 months'-worth, hence why you never feel secure or know where you stand). If not quite maestro enough at taming/breaking you, and/or where the victim tends naturally towards scepticism or cynicism, they’ll fill that gap with extra-intense and drawn-out Love-Bombing (Dopamine-releasing behaviours) so that you’re too hooked, imperceptibly High ("on Cloud 9"), OVERWHELMED with gratitude and relief (that they’re back to being "their (fake) normal, sweet selves" again), and re-enamoured, to want to keep arguing anyway (which sets a precedential pattern via repeated incidents as erodes your future right to protest.))) 7 She Puts You In Risky Situations Sociopaths tend to be impulsive, which means they tend to put others in risky situations. "If you get a sense that personal safety or safety of others are not often on her radar, she may have sociopathic tendencies," says Odessky. "People with antisocial personality disorder are impulsive, do not assess risk well, or learn from prior experience." ((E.g. if they lose their trigger-happy temper while driving you both in the car, they’ll suddenly drive dangerously and too fast. Even when calm, they drive carelessly, and drunk. Post-Honeymoon, physical intimidation is a main tool of theirs. Another: they’ll physically abandon you, either pretend or for-real, in the middle of nowhere. Their acts go from bad to unconscionable)) 8 She Is Hostile Watch out for anger and hostility as some prominent personality traits. "People with antisocial personality traits are prone to antagonistic behavior, as aggressive behavior can shift power dynamics in a relationship and help them get what they want," says Odessky. ((Behind the mask, whenever they pull it aside or remove it altogether, they’re incredibly intimidating, their outbursts or downright toddler tantrums larger than life, during which, they may also ***“eye pop” at you (unique to Narc-Spaths, think Jimmy Saville). They also smirk sneerily at inappropriate moments, with the Low Functioning the types who'd laugh at a funeral or pee over a church alter... (crass, classless, secret Chavs, unconscionable, morally corrupt, inhumane), nor mind where they are when they start yelling matches or public punch-ups. These are the culprits when it comes to spitting/'flobbing' in their loved-one’s face, which, you'd be surprised to learn, is considered THE most violent and hostile act there is from one person to another. They seem to have evil faces and dead eyes when mid-ballistic, and will throw things against walls or put their fist through it (their ego comes first, even before wanting to avoid self-injury) – BUT ONLY YOUR POSSESSIONS, proving that on these occasions they are NOT genuinely angry at first (WHICH MEANS, NOT FEELING THREATENED, JUST IRKED FOR NOT BEING REVERED AND OBEYED), just trying to be highly intimidating, albeit, then wind themselves up, sometimes as far as frothing at the mouth. Their evident lack of self-restraint and -control at such times can be deeply disturbing and alarming (for obvious-indications reasons). NEVER argue with a Spath from a position of being cornered, i.e. back to the kitchen sink, knives nearby. Always stand with the open door right behind you (or better yet, come to the relationship with Karate/Kick-Boxing other other aggressive defence lessons...for starters, the confidence it gives you acts as a preventative shield (being closer to animal, they operate by keen, predator senses)). Those highest in severity, aggressiveness, and/or where co-morbidly Psychopathic, can also switch facially, per mood, into a seemingly very different-looking person, like their own brother or cousin as well as switch from quite classy and sauve-looking to some mad-looking thug of a bum/tramp. Mind you, when devoid of any human Supply, street grifters are closer to what they truly are.)) *** "The Eyes of a Sociopath" by Donna Anderson (victim-turned-expert): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXbY4GL--Y 9 She Lies Sociopaths also tend to be deceitful. "If your mother is prone to lying about things big and small, she may have traits of antisocial personality disorder, particularly if she lies for personal gain," says Odessky. ((NPD Sociopaths are Gaslighters and pathological liars who lie and scheme even when truth-telling would be easier or serve them better, no doubt because they’ve lied so much, for so long, they can no longer tell truth from lie. And now try this on for size, folks: Spaths feel as “icky” when telling the truth as Neurotypicals feel telling a lie(!)) When caught in a lie, they'll try to double-down on it and if that fails, spin a whole new fabrication. Eventually, you give up scrutinising and decide not to believe another word they say, whereupon they bring the faked supportive actions back in.)) ____________________________________________________ If I were to add to this list, I’d say: Once their hooks are in and the impressing-you drops drastically - zero show of loyalty and protectiveness towards you, their so-called special person, especially when you really need it, even (later) siding with some total stranger who accosted you for nothing! They see any such clashes as serendipitous opportunities to gaslight you, to withhold validation, and kick and undermine you when you’re down. They help themselves to your stuff or, if you’re lucky, ask to borrow or use something, but never give it back or, at best, fail to put it back where it belongs – a “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine too” attitude. I swear they must be behind the saying, ‘Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile’. These are the most 'openly' intimidating, possessive and jealous, extremely antagonistic, ever-Gaslighting, giant spoiled brats whose level of over-entitlement, arrogance, (delusional) ego-pride register as unreal and incredible at the same time as outlandish and VERY real (Cognitive Dissonance), highly discombobulating, which can take a good week or two to get over, MEANING, drip-drip-traumatisation is occurring pretty much constantly. You and your health start to go downhill FAST (though at the time you're hands are too constantly full to to look in the mirror any more) and you can come out, realising you look like you've undergone Chemo or been living in a frontline warzone....skinny, sunken, haunted eyes, suddenly older, hair dry and sparse, fragile-tummied, catching every bug going...etc., although that does tend to be at ultra-close quarters - romantic. Arrogance-wise, you could be a lifelong expert in something, but, somehow during your fauxlationship they start acting as if they’re the expert, with you/your entire industry, relegated to ‘knowing nothing/a load of made-up BS’. Or, even without any prior experience of kids, they’ll suddenly know all there is to know about raising yours (and you’re doing it all wrong) (which means, right). When you finally see them for what they are (or aren’t) and automatically detach some, you quickly start to realise how boring and lacking in any lasting hobbies or pastimes they in fact are (the ones I’ve known never read a single book), and wonder how you didn’t see it before (it’s because you were in a state of constant over-arousal). Once hooked for a good period, they would have tended to cease wanting to converse with you, or taking you anywhere. Usually out of touch with friends by that point (because they’d make such a fuss), THEY then start going out without you (and woe betide you if you try to take the liberty of making the same fuss or demands to stay home as they did!). Massive Hypocrites, constantly moving the goalposts. Can tie you in knots during (needless) arguments (that they provoke or contrive) with their Word Salad if you don’t determine to stay focused. Expect their instant response to any legitimate, constructive, polite/diplomatic/tactful complaint of yours about their bad behaviour to be met with accusation about some crime on your part (if they can’t fault you - even what you in the future MIGHT or COULD do – I kid you not!) They will keep you awake and arguing for days. Their Silent Treatments tend to be marathon affairs. Especially if it gives them the excuse they need, to sneak off to see whichever simpering secondary Supply is available. Spaths tend to like video nasties, especially revenge ones and/or those aimed at their opposite sex. Also Schadenfreude (loving programmes that laugh at people’s mishaps and accidents). Any ‘upper’ substance or stimulant will do. (Sex with Spaths is a complete production (into tiresome rigmarole). Due to Testosterone overload, they can go all night, which sounds wonderful but can get very wearing and play havoc with your health once it fails to naturally plateau down following Honeymoon (1st-stage Love-Bombing) period, as well as start to drip-drip become tacky and perverted. Male victims tend to be particularly impressed (hooked) at first by their ‘perfect’ mix of ‘angel’ with a ‘devil’ bedroom side (failing, thanks to being kept High, to add 2 and 2 and realise the over-amount of experience this indicates they’ve had!)….until they’re not. They’re sexually provocative and indiscriminately promiscuous (sex is half release, half a tool for getting their way/goal).) Male Spaths tend to be fixated on nagging/coercing you into “just trying” (which means, including forevermore) anal sex. Thought they’ll hide it, they themselves bore of you very quickly (needing to bring in perversions and gadgets), however, their other motive still continues, namely, to keep you constantly too sleep-deprived to think or defend yourself against their constant, all-angles approach to BASICALLY swallow you up, whole...to become you with your luck/wealth/social standing, etc., etc, etc. They’re INCREDIBLY high-maintenance - as well as constant liabilities: whoops, another parking ticket, whoops, broke your this/that, whoops, forgot to pay the electricity bill – taking no care over anything of yours or worse, damaging and stealing precious things when you're not looking. And secret, domestic slobs who expect you to wait hand-and-foot on them like a 50s housewife (even if you’re the man and they the stay-at-home; again, their selfish over-entitlement is mind-blowing). One latest theory is that a large proportion were neglected and abused ADHD children whom, denied professional/medical intervention, naturally went on to develop Defiance disorder, and from there, Conduct Disorder, until full adult AsPD/NPD. Probably, the neglect causes the Vulnerable Narcissism, and the abuse, their giant victim-complex, paranoia (literally no reason for suspicion), insane possessiveness and jealousy (guarding their Golden Goose). They do tend to swing from being hyperactive, needing very little sleep and making like a depressed, bed or sofa zombie for days or more on-end. (You wonder if it’s Bipolar when in reality, usually, something you don’t know about has happened, e.g., one of their other sources of supply (lovers/fans) that you’re completely unaware exists, has just dumped them. If they’re zombiefied, staring at the TV, yet strangely, can get suddenly all animatedly snappy when you try to talk to them, that’ll be because they were busy devising revenge plots in their head and you interrupted them. I’ll stop there, otherwise I could go on and on and ON....There's no bloody end to them and what's wrong with them.

Hi OM, sorry to have left you hanging! Good, I'm glad it's not guilt. As for 'the husband who wasn't', despite 2 kids - can't get more commitmentphobic than that so - dodged a bullet! Have you looked into the whole concept of so-called Golden Child versus Scapegoat? You'll see it's not actually about adored versus ignored. I'll see if I can dig something up this week and paste it here, since it's highly relevant. PS: Psst! Mark II: see if you can spot where you've just recently posted a reply to said resident troll's new alias. Very pleased to see your response was a one-off in that case (curses - foiled again, lol). Good answer re that Mark! Sounds like a case of 'So he loves me, but WHAT loves me!'. And yes, decent people do treat other people decently; innocent until proven guilty is their default. Anyway, you're clearly qualified and in the right place, glad to have you here as a regular. :-)

Thank you for all of your replies. I felt better once I wrote it all down. Mom called me today to tell me that she dumped her man AGAIN....I told my fiancé that I know she'll start her "I want to give you money for a house" rhetoric. I told him I'm no longer interested and I will tell her the housing market is too high (I'm in the US and the average price for a home in my area is $500,000 for a dump) and I am will not be buying a home. He agreed with me. In regards to her being giddy about the holiday, it felt like a relief (Oh thank goodness she has other plans, I don't have to show up.) As far as marrying my fiancé, he’s a great guy and we discussed marriage. We are engaged but no date set. We have been together about five years and get along very well. We want to wait until all kids are out of school and independent.

On behalf of myself and OM - you're very welcome. :-) Yup - the pen is mightier than the sword. Maybe start a diary - and fill in the past as you go? You might end up with the side-bonus of a draft book...I mean, that's basically how almost every other victim's book gets written, plus it's obviously especially cathartic for you and could pay for a house deposit (*wiggles eyebrows temptingly-challengingly*). There are considerably less books by daughters of female Spaths than 'straight' NPDs...and let's face it, even if there weren't, you can never have enough. She dumped him again, as in, she's "dumped" this particular man for the 2nd/3rd+ time (to point of on-off relationship) or you mean, she's dumped this latest boyfriend, too, like all the other bfs she's dumped? If you mean the former, making the fauxlationship "on-off" in nature, then, when we factor in the recent "relief" at you having had plans, plus the fact that "not all cheaters are Narcs, but all Narcs, given the opportunity, cheat", then... assuming her boyfriend WASN'T in earshot so disregarding that small detail - ...That she's called it "off", it now looks as if she's been growing dissatisfied with him (hence that look of pure evil - presumably with fury mixed-in) because he's been rebelling (baaad slave!) far more than the once you witnessed - and created the opportunity to get to sample other men without getting fired: "It WASN'T cheating - we were on a break at the time" (an Old Chestnut long before Ross from Friends used it)... ...IN WHICH CASE, I reckon this guy got cheated on by his ex-wife and has zero tolerance, meaning, finding out she'd cheated on him would be his line in the sand, an instant dealbreaker, meaning, HE would get to end it. That can't happen...her inferior and slave doesn't get ANY say or self-assertions, rightful or otherwise, let alone making decisions over the fauxlationship, only SHE decides (I know, it's crazy). With Spaths, if you're theirs once, you're theirs forever (as in, their property and territory). But because they literally cannot tolerate - or in some cases, can't function - on their own ("without Prime Supply"), not even for a few weeks, they keep a hold of the existing slave until the new slave is ready to properly receive them, whereupon they seamlessly "end it" and jump-ship, but always in such a way as purposefully leaves the victim with important unfinished business (no closure via explanation and regret), which is to make detaching/healing impossible (they assume) (Narcs in fact are often poor judges of character who underestimate their victims). "That way", if and when they fancy starting things up again, the victim is still attached enough to be Hoover-able without too much trouble. (That, therefore, is usually what's behind any so-called "on-off" 'relationship' - which, if you think about it, makes absolutely no sense, other than what I've just described is usually, really going on behind the victim's back - so is a giant clue as to what one (or both partners - but of unequal 'rank') are.) Just FYI, if you want to watch that space? Furthermore, as you do have a loaded gun to point at her head, you could always ask to meet him for a coffee - as her concerned daughter (cough!) - and compare or surreptitiously get to compare notes and get a truthful light on past events? Having further crimes to add to her rap-sheet, albeit will sting at first, can only help speed up your detaching from her. Re the house-deposit Future-Faking: Snap! - my thoughts exactly as I got to 'AGAIN'. Good plan, excellent answer - one she can't argue with. Not that it'll stop her from trying, of course; they're nothing if not great nags (but - Opposites Land - where most people nag over something not done, they nag to get you to do (Coersion)). So you'll probably have to state it more than once or a few times, in which case I suggest you more or less simply re-state it, like a repeated speech, no variations or novel details from the version before or she'll see it as, you beginning to wobble and waver. (Final para - fairenoughski.)

Here we go - more info, as promised: https://themindsjournal.com/malignant-narcissists-benign-narcissists/ Why Malignant Narcissists Inflict Great Harm, But Benign Narcissists Don’t Key points: The malignant narcissist differs from the benign narcissist in important ways. The harmful narcissist tends to become successful and hurts others. The malignant variety blames others for having "chosen" their lower power or status. The harmful narcissist is prone to destructive aggression and violence, especially when feeling ignored or insulted. Some interesting new research documents a range of ways that narcissists who achieve power harm people. However, I think it’s important to recognize the difference between the malignant narcissist and the more benign variety. They aren’t the same. And their impact upon the people around them, or under their control, is also different. To explain, the malignant narcissist seeks domination and control over others with destructive, malicious intent. Inflicting harm to others is part of the aim. Doing so serves their need for self-aggrandizement, often to ward off deep, more unconscious insecurity. It’s similar to the writer Gore Vidal’s well-known bon mot, “It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.” The benign narcissist is also self-absorbed, often to ward off deep insecurity as well. But the benign version lives very much inside their own head, in a sense. In their own world. The “outside” reality of you and me, others’ lives, needs, or situations doesn’t really register for them. It’s as though the other person isn’t really there — until reminded. The benign narcissist is very self-serving and may manipulate and control others, but not with malicious or destructive intent. Rather, it’s just to continue to feel secure and in control of their own world, in a benign kind of way. With those differences in mind, let’s look at some recent research that adds to what we know about the malignant narcissist’s impact. One recent study found that they tend to become successful more easily in many organizational settings—as many people experience in their workplace, to their dismay. Moreover, the narcissist’s success takes a toll on peers, subordinates, and others in their orbit, from their arrogance, insensitivity, need to control and dominate. That study, published in The Leadership Quarterly, was described in full by Carly Cassella in Science Alert. She writes that such narcissists, “those who score higher in overconfidence, dominance, and authoritarianism, are more like to get appointed CEO.” And they “are known to procure negative outcomes for the firm, such as financial crime, tax avoidance, less collaborative cultures and more. Some studies have shown, for instance, that narcissistic CEOs appear more willing to commit crimes for the sake of the business.” “Once they’re in power, narcissists consolidate their position by firing everyone who challenges them,” explained psychologist Charles O’Reilly in Stanford University’s report. “In their place rise a plague of toadies, opportunists, and enablers equally guided by self-interest and short on scruples. So you end up with these individualistic cultures with no teamwork and low integrity.” That study confirms and adds to empirical evidence that we see in the workplace and career consulting, as well as in psychotherapy with men and women who find themselves dealing with the emotional impact of work-related conflicts related to narcissistic managers and leaders.

In this article, Narcissist means Malignant Narcissist. PS: Sociopathic (NPD-AsPD) mothers tend to be neglectful and rejecting, as opposed to 'straight' Malignant Narcissistic (NPD) mothers tending to be enmeshing, constantly in your face and business. https://thoughtnova.com/25-characteristics-of-a-narcissistic-mother Sadly, in this life, there are times when your mother is to blame for the poor relationships you have with her, your siblings, or other people. This is what you get when your mother is a narcissist. 1. Conditional Love Having a narcissist for a mother can result in a lot of psychological damage. The effects of this toxic influence are usually evident in adult children of such parents. In case you have been wondering if your mother is a narcissist or not, here are 25 signs that she most likely is. Let's have a look at some of the most telltale characteristics of a narcissistic mother. One of the things that separate mothers from practically all other people you will ever meet in your life is their unconditional love. Mothers are known to stick with their children regardless of what happens to them. Even when the entire world turns against you, your mother is usually there to offer her love and support. So, when you realize that your mother only loves you under circumstances that benefit her, then yes, you have a narcissist for a mother. Such moms get angry, upset, and even vindictive when you can't do what they want. 2. No Respect For Boundaries A narcissistic mother will not know she has overstepped her boundaries. She can force her opinions down your throat, and intrude into your personal life, disrupting it and causing you a lot of pain and distress. So, if she does not seem to understand your boundaries, she is clearly showing one of the more common characteristics of a narcissistic mother, and you need to be careful. 3. She Likes To Gaslight You Do you feel like your mother drives you crazy all the time? She might be gaslighting you. This psychological abuse is very common among narcissists. It is, therefore, one of the major characteristics of a narcissistic mother. She can gaslight you by lying about her behavior, criticizing your emotional reactions, and pretending those seriously hurtful things she did to you were "jokes." 4. She Always Plays The Victim Narcissists usually want all the positive attention on them, even when they have done terrible things. That is why this is one of the most powerful characteristics of a narcissistic mother. When she is in the wrong and she knows she is responsible, she will try to turn things around by making you feel sorry or sympathetic towards her. For instance, she might say something awful to you and then accuse you of always misunderstanding her. 5. She's Unpredictable You can never really predict what you will get with a narcissist. Their emotions are often all over the place. If this description fits your dear mom, then she is exhibiting one of the main characteristics of a narcissistic mother. A narcissist can demonstrate unpredictability concerning affection and attention. In particular, you will realize that you will only be on her good side when her needs are the focus. For instance, she might be very nice when she is going through something in her life. However, when the tables are turned, she might not offer you a listening ear. 6. She's A Pathological Liar Are you always suspicious of what your mother says? If so, she might be exhibiting one of the more powerful characteristics of a narcissistic mother. Narcissists lie to ruin relationships and manipulate to make themselves look better. The lies are usually a coverup or a distraction from some horrible truth about them. 7. She Has Favorites One of the most disturbing characteristics of a narcissistic mother is choosing favorites among her kids. Not only does she favor one child, but she also tends to pick another as the scapegoat. She forces everyone in the family to help out the favorite child, and those that can't end up on the receiving end of her wrath. Even when this favorite child does something wrong, she gets off scot-free. In the end, the children end up never getting along. This is made worse by the fact that the favored child thinks the mother is perfect while other children think she is a terrible person. 8. She's Very Petty Pettiness is one of the characteristics of a narcissistic mother. This means she can act in a childish manner, such as getting hurt so badly over the smallest issue. She can also try to "get even" whenever you wrong her. So, if you do something that pisses her off, she will make sure she revenges by doing something to hurt you as well. 9. She Ruins Your Relationships Healthy relationships can be very difficult to achieve for children of narcissistic mothers. One of the most popular characteristics of a narcissistic mother is found in her ability to destroy relationships. They love disrupting relationships between siblings and their significant others because they feed off the drama and the pain. 10. She Never Cares For Your Opinion A narcissistic mother will have a problem acknowledging or understanding your opinions unless they match her own. Rather than accept that you can see things differently, she will instead try to criticize or manipulate you into agreeing with her. 11. She Feeds Off Your Pain This is one of the most disturbing characteristics of a narcissistic mother. It is the reason these parents are often called emotional vampires. Many narcissistic mothers are sadistic, which means they can deliberately hurt their kids because they enjoy seeing them in pain. She can bring up painful topics and then pretend that she was messing around. The truth, however, is that she wanted to hurt you because your pain satisfies her twisted desires. 12. She Projects On You Projecting means being made to feel like you are the issue when you are not. For instance, when she does something bad, she can make you pay for the mistake instead. So, if she is heavier than she would like, she might deny you food to keep you thin. That is why one of the characteristics of a narcissistic mother is a tendency to do horrible things to their children based on things they hate about themselves. 13. She Is Untrustworthy Narcissists cannot be trusted, which is why untrustworthiness is among the most obvious characteristics of a narcissistic mother. Since they are always lying, these parents cannot be trusted with anything. They will often not meet their responsibilities, but will instead find ways to blame their failure on someone else. Ironically, when you fail in any way, they can get extremely angry and exact revenge. 14. Incompetency As surprising as it might sound, incompetency is one of the most obvious characteristics of a narcissistic mother. Since she is used to manipulating people into doing things for her, she tends to be pretty ill-equipped to handle many things on her own. For instance, she might not know how to throw you a nice party after your graduation since she has never taken the time to learn what it takes to do something nice for someone. 15. She Belittles You Although narcissists know how to use praise to win their victim's trust, they can also be very critical. So, if your mother sometimes belittles you, especially after heaping praises on you moments before, then she may be a narcissist. She might even belittle you in front of other people and then turn around and say it was just a joke. 16. Comparisons To Other People Narcissistic mothers like to compare their children to other people's kids. They can also compare them to other siblings, peers, and even neighbors. Such comparisons can wreak havoc on your self-esteem, which is why narcissistic mothers love them. After all, making others feel bad is what makes them feel better. 17. Insecurity By their very nature, narcissists are very insecure. So, a lack of self-esteem is one of the characteristics of a narcissistic mother you should be on the lookout for. This insecurity makes them put others down all the time and manipulate their most vulnerable kids just to make themselves feel better. 18. She "Parentifies" You Making you feel like a parent is one of the characteristics of a narcissistic mother. These parents heap parental responsibilities on their kids, and may not provide things like medical care, enough clothing, or other basic things the children need. She can also stop caring for your needs as soon as you start making some money, even if it might not be adequate to meet your financial needs. 19. She Loves To Terrorize Fear is one of the most effective tools narcissists use to control their victims. So, one of the characteristics of a narcissistic mother is her ability to cause terror. She can punish you severely for the slightest mistakes. For instance, she might refuse to give you food because she feels that you "eat too much." 20. She's Very Manipulative Manipulation is one of the characteristics of a narcissistic mother. She can be quite subtle in this regard. For instance, she might demand that you be at her every beck and call, and when you fail, she might make you feel selfish even though you have your own life to live. 21. She Is Overly Defensive We are not perfect, and we might get a bit of constructive criticism from time to time. Even parents get feedback from their kids and respond positively. However, one of the main characteristics of a narcissistic mother is her tendency to get violent, angry, or irritated whenever she hears something negative about her behavior. Simply telling her you prefer one thing over another can make her very abusive 22. It's Always About Her Narcissists love attention, and a narcissistic mother is not above being in the spotlight at the expense of her kids. She might celebrate a lot of small milestones in her life just to keep the focus on her. However, when it's not about her, she will not be as excited. 23. She Is Only Nice To You In Public Narcissists tend to have two different personalities. She might be horrible to you when you are in private and then treat you well when you are in public. So, be on the lookout, this is one of the subtle characteristics of a narcissistic mother. It's normal for our loved ones to treat us a little better in public, but if she is downright cruel and hateful when it's just the two of you, then it might be because she is a narcissist. 24. She Competes With You Normal parents will often make sure that their kids achieve more than they ever did and take a lot of pride in that. Narcissistic parents, however, don't behave in the same way. A narcissistic mother will try to compete or even sabotage you to keep you from surpassing her. If you are a daughter, this can get bad as she will compete with your beauty and femininity even more aggressively. Signs that she sees you as her competition would include calling you vain, stupid, or selfish to make you feel that you have not achieved much in life despite your success. 25. She Is Very Controlling Control is one of the more obvious characteristics of a narcissistic mother. Narcissists thrive on control, and they can lose their minds when the reigns are in someone else's hands. If your mother gets angry or hostile when you try to assert yourself and gain some control over your life, then you might have a narcissistic mother. She will use guilt when you try to express opinions and desires she does not agree with. What Should You Do When You See Characteristics Of A Narcissistic Mother In Her? If you can see many of these characteristics of a narcissistic mother in your parent, then there are a few things you can do to protect yourself. Narcissists are toxic, even if they are mothers. It is not possible to have a healthy relationship with one, which is why talking to someone about the relationship can do you a lot of good. Certainly don't confront her about her behavior, because narcissists never change unless that can benefit them. More importantly, such a confrontation will likely make things worse between you and her, which is the last thing you want. You can also try to reduce contact with her, as that means getting less exposure to her toxicity. Otherwise, you can accept the fact that your mother is a narcissist and learn to live with that without taking the horrible things she does to you personally. That said, make sure you don't lose your self-esteem in an attempt to keep a narcissistic mother in your life. Take a break when you need to, because your mental health is very important. Don't let the neglected and manipulated inner child inside you ruin your adult life. Additionally, beware of narcissistic mothers and hoovering. This is whereby such moms try to establish contact with former victims (especially their children) to keep the cycle of abuse alive.

From the readers' Comments section: "I stewed on this very question for MANY years, regarding my own mother’s treatment of me as a child. It hit hardest and painstakingly after I had started my own family of 3 beautiful babies. I recall looking at my gorgeous, bouncy, vibrant, happy, giggly - INNOCENT- baby girl, running around playing in the backyard when she was about 2 years old and I was pregnant with my second child (a boy) at the time : it was like something out of a movie…. As my beautiful little girl came giggling and running towards me with my outstretched arms, I suddenly had a vivid flash-back of a time when I was that little girl who was excitedly attempting to “play” with my mummy - but a very different scenario unfolded that day - my mummy was NOT there waiting with outstretched arms, with a big smile, whisking me into the air and showering me with snuggles and kisses. My mummy was actually doing her best to ignore me, and when I tried to get her attention and tugged ever so slightly at her dress, my mummy’s face was angry and she yelled “Ohhhh - look OUT A-LEX-I-A!! Jesus - WATCH WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!! What? What do you WANT?!….Well?…Bloody HELL Alexia, I could have broken MY NECK, watch where you are going next time!!” To which I remember feeling a sharp pain in my chest, a big lump in my throat and a deep indescribable hurt. Which I now realise was most likely shame. I felt hot tears streaming down my face and I stood there helpless, frozen. She just walked away muttering, not looking back. With each step she took towards the house, away from me, the more it hurt. I called to her a couple of times reaching out, she never looked back. Snapping back to the moment with my little angel - I whisked her into my arms, burying my head into her pretty natural red ringlets, kissing her neck and lightly tickling her as she squealed and giggled and I told her repeatedly “Mummy loves you, mummy loves you, SO MUCH, for ever and EVER” And I remember thinking “How COULD she? How COULD my mother, go out of her way to try and HURT me, her first born and ONLY daughter? I was SUCH A GOOD GIRL…I just wanted a cuddle…just once. She NEVER EVER gave me a cuddle. Not once. WHY did she not love me? I tried SO HARD for her to love me”. It wasn’t until I was in my mid 40’s that I would finally accept that she didn’t think like me and I had been approaching my healing journey the wrong way. I needed to accept the awful fact that my mother in actual fact, for what ever reason/s allowed her to justify her actions - did NOT now, then or EVER would love me. But it wasn’t a reflection on ME, this was a feeling of jealousy from her; she saw me as competition to my own father’s attention and affection. Which was confirmed by a therapist shortly afterwards. There were times when she actually eluded to this very thought form. I just didn’t understand it as a child. And you know what I think now? How very sad for my mother. That’s some seriously twisted shit right there. I feel so sorry for her delusional thought form and actions she chose as a result. Because she missed out on an amazing relationship with me - as I have a wonderful relationship with my “baby girl” - who is now 19 and I couldn’t imagine ever hurting her or my 2 boys, I can’t even fathom pushing them away ONCE - they are my life’s greatest accomplishments and joys. I am so lucky to be their mum, SO LUCKY and I am so very grateful"

https://www.truelovescam.com/female-sociopaths-children/ Female Sociopaths: Children and Childbirth Female sociopaths and children are a catastrophe… for the child and for the other parent. It’s less often talked about, but men are dragged through this nightmare as well as women. While women are showered by the male sociopath/narcissist with promises of marriage and a house and kids… The female sociopath does the same to her prey wielding a high sexuality and the promise of babies. They say that statistically there are more male pathological sociopaths than females… but tell that to the man – or the woman – ensnared and spiked through the heart by a female sociopath. Females as Sugar and Spice In the experience of this entanglement, gender matters not at all. It’s just as dangerous, devastating and potentially ruinous whether you’ve been sucked in by a male or female narcissist aka sociopath. So…statistics say there are fewer female sociopaths than male sociopaths. But are there? Maybe. Or do they go under the radar in the stats count because we find them they ((sic - ‘harder’)) to spot? Is the female sociopath less likely to be recognized because, after all, aren’t all little girls made of sugar and spice? Not when they’re sociopaths. All sociopaths, male or female or any gender are identical in purpose: they want and need to make use of others for their own ends. Our well being, mental and emotional health, bank accounts, and the very highly compromised safety of our children are the fallout. Apologies First I’m sorry to tell you, but when that female sociopath / narcissist leans in and whispers that she wants to have your baby, she isn’t knocking on your hard wired primal DNA with this huge-little sentence because of the gorgeous and amazing man that you are. Nor is she saying it to you if you’re a woman because of her deep connection to you and your profound shared maternal desire. She does care about you or share anything with you. She’s saying this to you no matter who you are because she’s a predator and is looking for lunch money – and because like any sociopath, she cannot help herself. The primary drive of a predator is to sink their hooks into something. What better way to attach yourself for life to another human than to make a baby with them? This little whisper is bait. The female sociopath, as one of her lures, baits prey with promises of children. – And remarkably, this future hope, this ultimate declaration of love, commitment, devotion and validation is supremely effective bait; it drives in the hook more deeply and for longer whether those kids are ever come along or not. Breaking Up wIth Evil What Matters Most In the escape and recovery, what we truly care about is getting away from the harm, understanding what just tore through our life, why, and how to never encounter this again – and how to keep our children safe if we’ve had them with this alternate type of human. Firstly, it’s important to accept that the female sociopath (narcissist) is driven by the wiring in her brain to do the same things a male sociopath (narcissist) does. Here are some manifestations and markers of that brain: • Deliberately deceives others • Tell lies even when they don’t need to • Don’t realize that they could get the same result they’re after without the lie • Out of context suddenly divulge some (odd) new bit of story about their life • Present a sob story about their childhood or past • Take a victim stance within their portrayal of their lives • Let it slip by words or actions that they don’t mind that others are harmed It’s this way of thinking and behaviors that are indicators of this abnormal brain. Whether male or female, there’s no possibility of a sociopath (narcissist) making loving connections, they see the world and all things within it as a a pile of toys that belongs to them. Female Sociopaths, Male Sociopaths: All the Same Thing Here’s how female and male sociopaths are alike: • All sociopaths think they’re superior beings to all other people • They’re proud of not having emotions • Sociopaths have flexible and genderless sexuality • They mimic normal people in order to seem normal and to gain trust • Sex is used as a tool or an animal release or fo rather entertainment • They have lots of people they scam at one time • Everything they say is a lie • Everything they say is to manipulate in order to take and not be caught • All sociopaths lie, steal, cheat, are violent and ruthless • There is no positive emotional bonding with any human being • They feel no like, love, care, concern or compassion for any living being Female Sociopaths Children and Childbirth Sociopaths are each and all fundamentally identical. Male and female sociopaths are identical in tactics, thinking, purpose and lack of conscience. There’s a compounded difficulty and area of entrapment that arises due to our social assumptions and expectations around what it means to be female and what we believe motherhood is meant to entail or embody. Female and male sociopaths have children to seem normal Female and male sociopaths have children to seem normal. Male sociopaths can populate the planet with their offspring and then abandon them. Never see them. Maybe never meet them from birth. They use the kids to create an image of themselves as normal and to reflect their own awesomeness on Facebook and Instagram. Male sociopaths use children, just as a female sociopath does, as a doorway back into their former target’s life whenever they feel a need to. Sociopaths Use Their Children for Cash Female sociopaths don’t seem to have the overwhelming desire to sprinkle the earth with their seedlings the way men do. Although there may be rare exceptions to this, the majority of female sociopaths avoid having many children. There’re only a few raw reasons a female sociopath might go through the trouble and pain of having a child aside from the normalizing mask it provides. Children are carried, born, and tolerated in order to gain alimony and child support or property rights. This is often done along with marriage, sometimes not. This makes a female sociopath parent without a conscience stick tenaciously to their biological children as a meal ticket. Having a baby or babies in lawful marriage leaves the female sociopath in a position of power to divorce and take alimony, property, and child support money that is meant to be all for herself. When the Kids Are No Longer Useful These children become less than adorable normalizing accouterment as they get older. Older children expect more, ask questions, and notice and can be outspoken about the unkept promises, mistreatment, neglect, and abuse from a sociopath parent. They suffer trauma and post-trauma, cognitive dissonance just as adults do. They too, try to fix it and to figure it out. This is dangerous and annoying to the sociopath parent. This renders the children less useful and more of a liability once they reach puberty or early teens. And there’s that magic number of age-18 often means no more paycheck. As soon as the child maintenance is no longer coming in that kid is not worth much unless the child happens to be a huge fan of the sociopath and sticks by that parent’s side. Sadly, this means the child has remained deeply ensnared. Unless a particular child is entrapped and mesmerized by the sociopath parent, mostly staying quiet about that parents lack, then ultimately the sociopath discards the kids, discredits them, smears them, and can outright demonstrate hatred for them. Another reason for dropping their kid from their life is similar to how they handle adult prey; their interest wanes when the emotionally malignant parent is simply bored. Think it sounds impossible? Read here – the clear and words of a self-proclaimed female sociopath about children: I find… children to be completely intolerable. It can be very difficult dealing with… children because they behave so selfishly and unreasonably. If it were just up to me, no problem, I could just ignore or terrorize them. ~ Words of a Female Sociopath

https://thoughtnova.com/can-an-empath-destroy-a-narcissist Can An Empath Destroy A Narcissist? Sadly, many empaths are usually at the mercy of their narcissistic captors. The question we are going to address today is, can an empath destroy a narcissist? The answer might surprise you. Yes, An Empath Can Destroy A Narcissist Low self-esteem is one of the most common problems among average empaths. Such people are easy to gaslight and mess around with. This is the reason many empaths are easily manipulated by narcissists. However, empaths don't always have to lose against these toxic people. Still, to overcome a narcissist as an empath, you will need to be a special kind of empath known as a super empath. When an empath is sensitive to their environment, intuitive, and self-aware, they can easily overcome a narcissist. This kind of empath doesn't stand for a narcissist's antics. They can see through the toxic mind games and avoid the temptation to be easy prey. So, however good a narcissist might be at reeling in vulnerable empaths, they will have no such luck with this special breed of empaths. In short, there are situations where you will observe an empath destroy a narcissist in no time because the empath knows their worth. So, if you are wondering in what ways an empath can destroy a narcissist, here are some options. 1. Detect And Avoid Manipulation Due to their willingness to accommodate everyone, including narcissists, empaths are often underestimated. However, beneath that good-natured exterior lies an amazing ability to understand a narcissist's ulterior motives. By refusing to be naive and gullible, this person can intuitively understand that they are being taken for a ride. They can feel that something is wrong even though it might not seem like it. So, you can expect to see an empath destroy a narcissist whenever they are quick enough to see past the narcissist's friendly facade. 2. A Healthy Sense Of Self-Worth There is no doubt that an average empath's low self-esteem is the reason many narcissists love to exploit these considerate people. Therefore, a narcissist who meets an empath with high self-esteem and a strong sense of self-worth is in for a lot of disappointment. The reason you will often watch a self-confident empath destroy a narcissist stems from the fact that this potential victim knows who they are. Even when told by the narcissist they are crazy, they know they are not, and that is not something a narcissist can change. 3. Good Listening Skills And Ability To Recall Minor Details In most cases, you will see an empath destroy a narcissist by leveraging two very important skills - good listening skills, and good memory. Narcissists might think they are smarter than everyone else, but they have nothing on confident empaths. Since these folks care so much about other people, they tend to hear and remember details many people miss after listening to people. Since narcissists say whatever will get them what they want, they don't care whether they are lying or telling the truth. However, empaths do, and they will know they are being manipulated by narcissists due to their contradictory statements. For instance, a narcissist will shower you with praises because they want a favor from you and then turn around and take back all the good things they said about you to make themselves feel superior. A smart empath can see what's going on here and put the toxic drama to a quick end. 4. Targeting The Narcissist's Ego Narcissists have large egos to cover up their grave personality flaws. They cannot stand it when their delusional sense of self-worth is threatened. Seeing a self-aware empath destroy a narcissist's ego is one of the most satisfying things ever. For instance, when the narcissist projects you by criticizing you over things you have not done, you can turn the tables on them, but with actual evidence, and destroy their ego. This is among the most effective ways you can have an empath destroy a narcissist. 5. Insist On Accountability As an empath, you are full of integrity since you want to avoid hurting people at any cost. You also tend to insist on accountability. Narcissists are never accountable for what they do. They prefer to cut corners, avoid putting in any work, and respond with blame games when confronted about their lack of accountability. Consequently, when you insist on accountability when dealing with a narcissist, you will become a big problem for them. Demanding accountability will help any empath destroy a narcissist and make them flee. Tips To Keep In Mind While Trying To Destroy A Narcissist It must be great to learn that, as an empath, you can destroy a narcissist. Nevertheless, this is not as easy as you might think. Narcissists still have some vicious weapons they can use against you. First of all, the narcissist might set out to destroy your reputation. Fortunately, if you are a brave empath, you can turn things around by sharing truths about the narcissist as well. In the process, you can undermine their plans to destroy you. These techniques will help an empath destroy a narcissist quickly and effectively. So, become an educated empath, a narcissist's worst nightmare. Nobody deserves to be a narcissist's victim, especially not an empath.