How to deal with wife’s infidelity, which she denies!

Found her dirty lingerie, which I’ve never seen before. Someone at another chat site suggested looking for more, and I found 50+ pieces of unfamiliar lingerie, most showed heavy use. She has lots of older lingerie she wore for me. But this stuff is newer. When I asked her about them, she states she bought it but didn’t wear most of them. And refused to discuss it further! Stating I forgot her wearing it! What do I do now

Hi M393, I'm sorry. :( I mean - obviously she's cheating AND lying about it. What, in an ideal world, would you WANT to do now?

PS: She's using "Plausible Deniability". You know her guilt makes sense but your evidence isn't strong enough to prove it. There again, who said you had to prove to her that she's lying? Who made HER the Judge? Nay, mate, she's The Accused - in the dock! Tell her you don't believe her (plus, of course you'd bloody remember them if she'd worn them before!) and to prove to you that she's innocent or - no dice, game over! I mean - how's about you use Plausible Deniability back on HER? I dumped you because all the evidence was too compelling (prove it wasn't), which at that time was the only sane, reasonable, self-respecting thing to do - which YOU would have done too! Plus, it wasn't me who planted dirty lingerie in the basket. You did. So it's your fault. (*Owned*) IOW, stop waiting for total safety before you'll pass sentence. You're here! Says it all! Mate, if you strongly suspect - WITH convincing evidence - that she's cheating on you, and DON'T have a history of such suspiciousness in all your past relationships, then.... SHAME ON HER!!! Can you see it from that angle? That's the correct one, mate. Capiche? (Wakey-Wakey....)

'Refusing to discuss it further'. PFFF! THAT old verbal chestnut! Talk about word-for-word and to-NPD-script (along with everything else)?! She's a Covert. Sorry - wrong. She's a CHEATING Covert. Ach. Same thing.

Sorry I didn’t reply sooner, had to digest your advice. You’re right by the way, and thanks for taking the time to advise! Thing did evolve, not for the better. But after 26 years of marriage and with 2 grown kids, the future is unclear! Thanks again

Good, I'm glad you didn't reply sooner - I can't keep up with everyone as it is!...and it's too hot over (Spain) here to do anything during the day other than lie around going, Gaaaaah...., and try to string a sentance together, meaning, I only have the evenings along with all my daily chores. Take this as slow as you like! It's better to take your time, anyway. It's a huge headf**k of the headf**kiest variety which is a huge workload for your brain so...slow and steady wins the race. There's no fire...all the power is yours. Things have evolved? Have you been to see a solicitor/lawyer? Or ultimatum-ed her?

Hello again, , Hope all is well, I heard about flooding in Spain, hope you’re ok. If you have time to read I’ll continue! to update, yes things evolved but not with lawyers. We had a heated discussion, where I laid out the evidence, and told her to prove the facts wrong! She had no defense since the unused excuse failed, and she couldn’t tell me when she wore these multiple items for me. I pointed out the relative newness of this batch of lingerie, compared to the 5 or 6 items she repeatedly wore for me, including pictures! I even knew where she bought the new stuff, it’s all a brand sold at a relatively new chain store near us! In all fairness the store has been there for about 10 years, but the lingerie she bought is of 4 different sizes, coincidently she has gained weight over the last 10 years. Basically while I was at work over the last 20+ years, working 12 and 24 hour shifts, she was home with the kids and also working in an office part time. Her parents watched the kids at their house a lot, when they weren’t in school. She however must have found other ways to fill her days, and I know her office environment was prime for screwing around, lots of going for drinks after work etc. when I got home at 8-9 pm, or was working 12 hour night shift ( half of my schedule) all was reportedly normal! However, she didn’t like being reminded that she once confessed wanting a threesome with my best man! He’s my number one suspect (they work together). I’m the trusting fool! We have agreed to live together, separately! For our kids sake!! End of rant, thanks for listening!!

With you asap! (Respondents thin on the ground again.) Very, very sensible - KEEP digesting - chew it to puree before you swallow, it'll shunt you forward. :)

PS: I always read. It's replying that's the hard part (finding the time). You and everyone else waiting patiently (bless yous) - first chance I get.

Well, bar when the OP HASN'T got with the reality/truth programme, then I read sentance by sentance 'to feel the shock and situation' with the person.

Thanks for your help

Divorce her buddy do not put up with that garbage... ☠️

Good god - I'm so sorry. You somehow became unbookmarked! "to update, yes things evolved but not with lawyers. We had a heated discussion, where I laid out the evidence, and told her to prove the facts wrong! She had no defense since the unused excuse failed, and she couldn’t tell me when she wore these multiple items for me. I pointed out the relative newness of this batch of lingerie, compared to the 5 or 6 items she repeatedly wore for me, including pictures! I even knew where she bought the new stuff, it’s all a brand sold at a relatively new chain store near us! In all fairness the store has been there for about 10 years, but the lingerie she bought is of 4 different sizes, coincidently she has gained weight over the last 10 years. Basically while I was at work over the last 20+ years, working 12 and 24 hour shifts, she was home with the kids and also working in an office part time. Her parents watched the kids at their house a lot, when they weren’t in school. She however must have found other ways to fill her days, and I know her office environment was prime for screwing around, lots of going for drinks after work etc." Oh, don't blame the environment. You know you or I could expose ourselves to that and, not only not be tempted, but, not even have the slightest bit of interest! "when I got home at 8-9 pm, or was working 12 hour night shift ( half of my schedule) all was reportedly normal!" So basically, like a dad to her "Wayward Scissorhands" daughter-fiture. ...Great. That's not what you signed up for, is it. "However, she didn’t like being reminded that she once confessed wanting a threesome with my best man!" WTSF!?!?? "He’s my number one suspect (they work together)." Oh, for goodness sake. It wasn't looking good from the start, was it! Where have you been?? Over-busy at work? "I’m the trusting fool! We have agreed to live together, separately! For our kids sake!!" Sorry to say, but that's not good for them. She's clearly not well and is morally corrupt. She'd be a really bad influence for kids who are, even right now, studying the pair of you. Are you worried about how she'd be with Custody if you were to split? "End of rant, thanks for listening!!" Very mild rant, all things considered? Go again if you want? Just remember to askterisk. Sorry again for having missed your post, you must have thought me really rude. IOU 1. :)

PS: Wash your mouth out! It is NOT Foolish to trust. We're programmed to because normally - in a world without societal thus parental sickness (that too easily gets replicated down the line) - that's what works. THINK ABOUT IT. Everything YOU did, had you been with a woman of SOUND mind and morals - you should be blissfully content by now. Say this while looking in the mirror (and that's an order, Soldier!): RIGHT QUALITIES (mine) BLOODY WRONG RECIPIENT (her/it) DO not learn self-sabotaging coping mechanisms just because you - like too many these days - got tricked by a Narc into a marriage and kids. Not unless you intend to deliberately pick another Narc next time, anyway. (Hah - obviously not but you get my point.) DO NOT adjust your dials, Sir. YOU are the reason why the nailing of jelly to the ceiling, managed to stay up there for so long before it fell. Understand? Ref Best Man: she CAME that way. This is NOT a case of the neglected or abused wife. She Came That Way. Understand? YOU...are a champion relationship builder and maintainer. UNDERSTAND?

I love it when brain-spaghettified people come on here re the inevitable Crunch-Crash with a Narc, going, "Woe is me, I'm so useless and stupid and weak and-and, otherwise I wouldn't be where I am'. SMIRK! You've just done a couple of thousand rounds in the ring with (evil) Tyson! You're not concussed, you're still on your feet and operating..... Weak, etc., my arse. (It's basically just code for, I wanna go to bed and stay there and confession I'm weak will give me permission.) YOU'LL BE FIIIIIIIIIIINE. Promise. :) It's in your programme so you're going to Fineville whether you like it or not. Basically. May as well like it, huh. I'll shut up now. (Ten-Four for a copy, good buddy?)

Thanks for the advice, your analogies are tough to decipher, but I get your meaning. Yes divorce would end having to live with the lying Bitch, and my kids are grown, only 1 still lives home. But I have been through 2 rounds on Cancer treatment so far, and I’m in remission for 3 years. I know more treatments are in my future, so I live my life in 5 year windows. If I make it through 5 years, I plan 5 more. The reason I came on here, was for confirmation, that what I found ( her dirty lingerie) 6 years ago, and more since, was what I thought. Concrete evidence of infidelity. I found the initial batch 2 years after my first cancer surgery, it looked like she was actively doing it in the years leading up to my diagnosis. I returned to work after that surgery and she may have returned to her activity as well. When I had the relapse and had to get more treatment, I was forced to retire early. She works from home now, so she is stuck without much chance to do anything. I have been ignoring her for some time now, living my life with little interaction. I frankly don’t have the energy, or interest in going through divorce. She is stuck waiting for me to die, then she can screw who ever will have her. In the mean time she has to keep up her lie, I love it when I catch her lying and I show her the proof. Bitch! Thanks again for the support, it’s nice not feeling alone on this Island!

"Thanks for the advice, your analogies are tough to decipher, but I get your meaning." Damnit, I thought they made it easier and quicker to explain the sciency bits. When a spouse/partner cheats, they're known as a Wayward Wife/Husband. And obviously, she does it painfully to you (while she's still 'touching' you) because she has other and (ultimmately) self-destructive (scissor) hands. "Yes divorce would end having to live with the lying B*tch, and my kids are grown, only 1 still lives home." I was about to put - yes, she is a lying b*tch. But then I glanced the first line of your next para and... She's more than just a lying b*tch, given THIS fact!... "But I have been through 2 rounds on Cancer treatment so far, and I’m in remission for 3 years. I know more treatments are in my future, so I live my life in 5 year windows. If I make it through 5 years, I plan 5 more." Nobody but a Malignant Narcissist would do that in that circumstance. Lying, Heartless B*tch Oh, and morally corrupt (what a terrible example to set the kids - especially considering that when parents cheat, that can lead to "Everyone else has done it"-itis... makes that taboo line far easier to cross. However....that, again, refers only to the adulterous portion. The When is HEINOUS! UNCONSCIONABLE! NOT NATURAL! And she doesn't even CARE enough to HIDE THE BLOODY EVIDENCE! Talk about kicking you when you're really, REALLY down - myyy GOD. But then - Swat Narx Do. She's disgusting. Not fit to lick your boots. "The reason I came on here, was for confirmation, that what I found ( her dirty lingerie) 6 years ago, and more since, was what I thought. Concrete evidence of infidelity." Validation, you mean. Yup. That's why everyone comes here. Usually because they're up against a Gaslighter. (They'd deny the bloody sky was Blue, they would.) "I found the initial batch 2 years after my first cancer surgery, it looked like she was actively doing it in the years leading up to my diagnosis. I returned to work after that surgery and she may have returned to her activity as well." Think really hard... Do you suppose you were sensing something really ominous and threatening to your welfare was happening in the lead up to your cancer diagnosis? Slow Murderers, some call them. I've been screaming that over the ether for ruddy decades (ketchup baby bloody tomatoes!). They cause stress-inflammatory health problems and diseases, including - you guessed it! And then leave you alone to deal with it... insult to injury. You have to be a special kind of Stupid to cheat. Swat Narx R. Oh dear... You have my deepest, deepest, DEEPEST sympathies... "When I had the relapse and had to get more treatment, I was forced to retire early. She works from home now, so she is stuck without much chance to do anything." What difference does it make now? They find a way, anyway. Online, if not. "I have been ignoring her for some time now, living my life with little interaction." I not only don't blame you but - think about it... That emotional detachment process is what's allowed your eyes to become even more wide-open. "I frankly don’t have the energy, or interest in going through divorce." Fairenoughski in your position. So that means, you continue the emotional detaching (and don't forget to protect yourself legally and financially - tighten her access to your accounts if she has any...know that we know what she is - all together now: Swat (malignant) Narx Do...feckn famous for it). "She is stuck waiting for me to die, then she can screw who ever will have her." Nobody by then. Look have an expiry date, n'est pas, and people do learn. The aging ones finally run out of people (truth always outs) and look like shite (all the disgusting faces they're constantly pulling behind yours and everyone elses back, amongst other things). "In the mean time she has to keep up her lie, I love it when I catch her lying and I show her the proof." Lack the energy, you say? Haha...watch that space. I repeat (to all): Normal-Healthy Relationship - Holding onto Anger, Bad Malig Narc Fauxlationship - TURBO POWER, ANYONE!? :) "Bitch!" I'll 'see' your B*tch and raise you a "See You Next Tuesday". "Thanks again for the support, it’s nice not feeling alone on this Island!" No, thank YOU. Your honesty is helping so many people, you've no idea. And yourself. You um brave warrior. C or no C. Now that you're revving your engine a bit - She's going down! If she can't take having her face shoved in the truth from now on - and you, not pandering any more (death to her ego) - and without the opportunity to be as immoral and sleazy as she likes/needs - she'll either have to experience Narcissistic Collapse OR be the one to start a divorce (you make sure you cite serial adultery) (- Narcs are the serial adulterers - fact now). What can I say? ....Count me in! :D Narc Deflater at your service.

Let's talk again soon about the tips and tricks I can pass onto you that help you heal as well as simultaneously - inadvertently, mind! - nudge her towards that Collapse cliff-edge. For now, I'd like you to do me a favour by ditching showers, in favour of baths. Buy yourself some Red, glass, tealight-holders aka Votives, about 5 or 6, to create a rosy glow (mains lights off, obvs); use bubblebath, preferably unscented (and have fun with bath bombs because it turns out they're even more popular with men!); stay in there for ages, topping up the hot water, and have your favourite TALK radio station on at 'in-person volume' or a bit louder. Wearing foam earplugs loosely helps. We're replicating the womb (think about it/imagine it, and know that it was frothy in there, maan). It's where you felt safest. It's hard to heal or recover fully if you don't feel safe. And in your situation - safe is the furthest from what you'll be feeling. Happily, it's addictive but very good for you. Idea is every night - OR every part of the day during which you normally feel most wretched. Let's wake your feisty little toddler and get him to join ranks, shall we? (Sounds bonkers but this bonkersness is actually how bonkers humans bonkersly work - don't complain to me, complain to Management up there, haha). Guess who we'll be 'waking' after that. (That's right, well guessed!, haha.)

PS: How often and for how long are each of your Grieving Waves crashing in? Are you experiencing difficulty relaxing enough to breathe naturally?

Hello again, so I read your reply, and I had to ponder your questions and suggestions! By the way, thank you for your repeated advice and concerns. Living with cancer is tough, but it beats the alternative, and I’ve lost a lot of friends and family to it, so I consider myself fortunate! As for your suggestions, thought about the bath thing, it’s just not me! Sounds wonderful but I haven’t sat in a tub in decades. However, I do like to sit in my studio and play guitar or piano while I sip on bourbon. I can forget the world while I play, and it makes me feel like the world is a better place because of music! Plus I’m an outdoorsman, and spend a lot of time quietly in nature, very helpful! As for waking the toddler and having him join forces. My kids are blissfully unaware of what their mother did. And I don’t want her to ruin their lives like she did mine! What’s funny is, your analogy of “everyone else has done it itis” She her self is an example of that, her mother had at least 1 affair on her father, he found out and exploded, it damaged the 3 siblings for life, my wife still talks about it, her sister ended up seeking relief by sleeping with a married man from work. And her brother is a mess as well. So yes, it damages the children. I think I’ll suck it up for their sake! “Are you experiencing difficulty relaxing enough to breathe normally?” I haven’t relaxed about this since I found the first dirty lingerie, and the multiple other discoveries have only made it worse! Hence the disconnect, and music therapy. This advice you have given only makes me sure of what I found, being adulteress behavior. And makes me sure of how to proceed. Again, thank you for your help

"As for your suggestions, thought about the bath thing, it’s just not me! Sounds wonderful but I haven’t sat in a tub in decades. However, I do like to sit in my studio and play guitar or piano while I sip on bourbon. I can forget the world while I play, and it makes me feel like the world is a better place because of music! Plus I’m an outdoorsman, and spend a lot of time quietly in nature, very helpful!" Who said it 'had to be You'? OF COURSE IT'S YOU. You came out of a womb, didn't you? Or would you have me believe you were incubated in an open-mike nightclub, inside a Bourbon-drinker's s guitar? :p Well, shutchaface, then. TRY IT, SAM-I-AM - YOU MIGHT *LIKE* GREEN EGGS AND HAM. (Stubborn ugger...LOL LOL) (Although that's a good thing in your situation...just not in THIS one, mleugh, hahaha....just TRY IT, PLEEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEEEEE? You can even have my last Starburst - and it's a Red one!...it's a bit fluffy but that's just the wrapper....

I'll finish tomorrow - up early in the morning, ach (I'm retired...ish, too). With any luck you might have tried the magic that is, replicating the womb. (And last time I looked, no-one's womb ever felt like the inside of a guitar.) It's not magic if you don't need it. But you dooo (be-doo). Or - Prove me wrong. I love being proven wrong, actually - goferit.

(PS: And, anyway - my dad's bigger than your dad, haha!) PPS: just caught the top line: "Living with cancer is tough, but it beats the alternative, and I’ve lost a lot of friends and family to it, so I consider myself fortunate!" Made me laugh. Well put that man! PPS: is there a market, do you suppose, for waterproof guitars? ...(acoustic, obvs)......bath or shower? Or even in the sea (woah, now you're talking!).

"As for waking the toddler and having him join forces." Read a tiny bit and couldn't leave this glaring cross-purposes! : I meant YOU - YOUR INNER Toddler. He's most definitely still in there, believe you, me! As is your teenager. (Good grief! - I would never suggest you involve your kids! Crikey, the way you took it, you must have thought I was insane!) (The misunderstanding itself is funny, though, did make me laugh.)

(Bumping you up for Sunday latest, keep bearing with.)

Hi again!..... to finish where I left off.... "She her self is an example of that, her mother had at least 1 affair on her father," There we go. However, it doesn't change anything. A non-narcissist wouldn't DREAM of willingly trying on and walking around in the bully's shoes, they wouldn't want to go within 10 feet of them....not even if you put a gun to their head. They'd say - "Go ahead, shoot me!....I'd rather be dead than live in a world where hurting a trusting innocent were routine-acceptable or fair game as some sodding low-down, selfish experiment, just to save the acter-outer from having to use their brain, and a bit of imagination, for a sodding change!" An innocent victim-survivor does not become a perpetrator, not even for a self-serving reason. (Exceptions: Toddlers and Teenagers who are going through the natural developmental narcissistic phase (which is effing mild compared to NPD). Their egos are "outside, playing" already, highly susceptible to social influence, which makes them easy prey, especially if their parents aren't emotionally available.) Becoming a perpetrator is CHOICE...a lazy-minded, WEAK-minded, downright cowardly COP-OUT.... a Rolling Over....."for a quiet life" (fools). Anyone with full-blown human strength of mind resists,...and then comes out even MORE empathetic, even LESS inclined (phobic, actually!) to ever mistreat and cause that same or even remotely similar agony to another person. NOT EVEN THEIR WORST ENEMY. She was a Narc already, when that affair happened. But yes, it would have made her doing it, easier, for having had a ready defender/justifier (aka giant hypocrite) against the consequences of said atrociously bad attitude and behaviour (guilt, shame, remorse, etc.). In other words, he paved her way....because she was being JUST LIKE HIM! When Normal-Healthies get validated, it makes them nicer, kinder. When Narcs get validated, their arrogance, over-entitled-ness and uncalled-for nastiness go UP. It's called, Feeding The Monster, ...similar to Never Smile At A Crocodile. If, therefore, she had walked in those shoes when still a teenager - or just, prior to the age of 25 - fine....understandable immaturity including selfishness, albeit still socially and maritally unacceptable (Antisocial and Anti-societal). Done only the once, never repeated. By now, at her age, she's supposed to be beyond that sort of childishly dense, "fire-starting" nonsense. Only - she isn't. Because she isn't (beyond teen age). Only her body is....and her learned practical skills, like, being able to drive a car and do a job. Question: How (not) old would you say she is: 1. on a good day, 2. on a bad day? What age makes her gobsmackingly selfish, over-entitled and self-obsessed behaviour suddenly 'make sense'? 1. Ten to Twelve, 2. Four or Five? AND...Is the bloke she's cheating with, married and/or with kids? "he found out and exploded," Define 'exploded'? "it damaged the 3 siblings for life," Which did - the cheating or the exploding? "my wife still talks about it," Yes, but only because it's Gaslighting (propaganda), her way of maintaining your pity for her. This is because Pity disarms your Anger and Disapproval AND your ability to pass sentance. This is what's meant by - A Narcissist uses the victim's strengths against them. After all - in the one breath she's telling you it destroyed her and her siblings - the kids - but meanwhile busily choosing to destroy HER kids. But I wouldn't expect anything less because Narcissists.....and if they do the worst thing possible to another human being whom is that close and vulnerable (heart exposed), namely "cheat on you" (pathetic minimisation - DEVASTATE YOU BY STABBING YOU THROUGH THE HEART AS WELL AS TWISTING THE KNFE!), considering the power was theirs all along, at their ruddy fingertips, then, they SO ARE malignant and sadistic, HENCE REFUSING TO IN THE FIRST PLACE AVOID - OR THEREAFTER *STOP* - CAUSING (OR STOP RISKING CAUSING) YOU AGONY! Simplified: She is stood on your bare foot wearing metal stiletto heels, and the heel has sunk into your flesh. You wail in agony. She does not remove her foot nor even lighten the pressure. What would THAT tell you? Correct: she hates your guts and is so full of (unwarranted to point of madness) resentment at you that she wants to torture you, agonisingly. NOW what does that tell you? She effing loathes your guts! Why? Nothing to do with you WHATSOEVER. You could be Brad Pitt or Jesus himself - even that wouldn't stop her. Her attaching and bonding programme is f***ed. It makes her go off you (just after her wedding day, apparently). She doesn't know why, she just knows she (the addict) is no longer seeing trees of green, red roses too, etc. The OTT dopamine fixes, PLUMMET. She feels bad. That's your fault. Can't be hers - she's perfect ("cuckoo!"). It's yours. You're "not" loving her enough, giving her enough attention (in fact, you're feeding her the same amounts as before - or more - but her stomach has a hole in it), "ergo", she's (poof!) gone off you, suddenly, because of something(s) wrong YOU'VE done. "You're withholding" her Dopamine. Nothing is their own fault or their problem. Even when it so is. They either can't see it or daren't see it or do see it but self-delude they didn't (to avoid their whole delusional house of cards from crashing). So they beat you up to a bloodied pulp and set the whole house on-fire. Basically. This is a lazy-minded BOGOF: if it teaches you a lesson and makes you too scared to permanently lose her to A.N. Other, and therefore keep increasing, increasing, increasing your adulation and admiration (until you fall down dead!) - "Win!". If you don't - you've had, not a lesson but your punishment (or half of it) - already = "Win!". (There shouldn't ever even BE any competition or psychological warfare featuring in a romantic pairbond! Power Over has no place there! It can't work, let alone succeed, without Equality. So you see - they're effed to begin with...and you along with them.) But wait: you've got Cancer and then are just managing to recover from Cancer when she does that. NOW what would you conclude? Perhaps that you're now "Sleeping with The Enemy"? If your own spouse betrays you to that nuclear-bombing degree, then, not only doesn't she love you, not only is she angry and resentful at you. She doesn't even LIKE you. You probably annoy the bejezuz out of her by now. So why don't they just call the relationship Over? Answer: Because you have uses and provide conveniences - oh, and because she's secretly a kid who treats you like you should be her father in order to turn you into her father so that her daughter-father application can actually get finished. So she was cheating on you even before she Cheated On You (understand?). Because you thought you were marrying a grown woman who saw you as purely her romantic mate-for-life...her Husband. Nope. "Da-dda". You have two toddlers in da house....Four children overall. You are Partner-less. You are a single Father and have been all along. As her (*unwitting) "Dadda", you are expected to love her and forgive her, UNCONDITIONALLY. Except for after a many, many years featuring no abuse - that kind of love doesn't exist between two adults whom aren't genetically related, no matter HOW in-love they are. Only from parent to child (then neice/nephew and so on). (Narcs are so over-entitled, they "believe" they can use you however they like for achieving whatever they like - and sod you feel about it - your opinion doesn't even count! Hence you're not even told (plus, you might say No, meaning, they'd have a fight on their hands....and why be arsed when you can just pretend/cut corners i.e. cheat - in every area; so they'd rather trick you...or even do it for the giant ego rush it gives them (- I know, I know...evil/insane uggers)). Here's how to know if they know what they're doing or not: Do they only mistreat you - and "behind closed doors"? Can they be mid-rant at you but immediately switch back to charming and reasonable if a witness walks in? When she throws something (IF she does) in a Narc Rage - is it strangely always only YOUR stuff she destroys?..... Giveaways like that. Have you ever noticed? "her sister ended up seeking relief by sleeping with a married man from work." Relief? Whom sane would/could commit that act (smashing other people's marriages and families) and find that A RELIEF. Do you realise tht was BS justification in the form of "Word Salad"? (google) "And her brother is a mess as well." Nah. All too weak. Rolled Over. Found the idea of cheating, just taking, stealing, barging and punching your way through life more appealing than doing the actual work that goes with salaries/perks and privileges. Spoiled, selfish babies. Dad, clearly, was super-dominant over their mother. They chose HIS side, HIS way, so that he wouldn't pick on them. Not intelligent enough to outsmart him, keep him pacified, but all the while, resisting and enduring like crazy because it was preferable to BECOMING ANYTHING LIKE "UGHH!" HIM. See it? Feel it? THERE ISN'T ANY JUSTIFIED REASON FOR A PARTNER TO CHEAT. You just say, Houston, we need to talk....Houston, we need counselling....Houston, we've tried but now we have to divorce - or even just, "I want a divorce"...harsh, yes, but at least decent-minded and honourable - followed by stay single as you grieve for 2-5 years, followed by returning to the dating ground. They want to keep you, their "Primary Supply" for all the perks and conveniences (including the products of YOUR hard work) - and their unwitting 'parent' substitute - AND start a new relationship (or two...or 15). Only THEIR happiness and convenience exists in this world. You? You may as well be a Swiss Army Knife. SHE DOESN'T CARE. She doesn't have the ability to give a flying duck to any human being on this planet except for HER, HER, HER. It's All About Her. They're like PacMan. Unsatisfiable. There's a hole in their bucket. They won't fix it. They won't let you near it. They kid themselves they like it that way, nut only because that's more (suitably) self-flattering than admitting they have no choice BUT to be an out-of-order human (sans Empathy all the way to Humanity, equals, Biological Android) ...on the constant take. (What's hers is hers and what's yours is hers.) Sorry, but you married an interrelational Nutter. "So yes, it damages the children. I think I’ll suck it up for their sake!" It damages them only if, during and post-divorce, you abandon them emotionally to focus on your own pain and injuries, forgetting theirs. YOU dictate whether they take it in their stride or not. They will recover. If your 'wife' and her siblings had been taken away from all of that - by THEIR sane and functional parent - and in-time, they could have healed and recovered. Instead... It is far more damaging for a child to be reared in a toxic, narcissistic relationship than go through a divorce with you. Even if you kid yourself they know nothing, that doesn't make it true. Kids are not stupid. They just lack vocab and experience. If anything, they see clearer...they haven't had time to 'collect' social-emotional baggage as gets in the way of their normally unimpeded view: "Mummy's been bad, hasn't she". Yyyyyup. And mummy's refusing to stop being bad. Message: no matter how badly they treat you and break the legal, marital contract - if your partner/wife cheats, put up with it. Stay in the marriage. Let kids grow anxious from mixed messaging, whereby they can tell there's big, threatening trouble in their midst but don't know what it is or which direction it's coming from. Really? For their sake? You're not really under the clock, as such, but the sooner you remove him from that toxic environment, the better. As for yourself. You want to stay in Remission or what? Get thy injured and weakened arse out of there! Although, in fact - get HER out of there. See a solicitor to find out how. Just find out where you stand and will stand. You'll feel better. WAY better. This will be chipping away at the very strength and resilience you're relying on, to come out of Remission. The last thing you need is LONG-TERM CHRONIC stress. Acute - short, sharp, swift, quickly over - is do-able, even in your state. Just start to consider it...try to get your head around it (with solicitor's massive help). Your situation will improve without that monkey on your back, and your kid is guaranteed - through you being the sane one, the real grown-up - to be either fine or, thanks to the experience, better than fine. The reason why those 3 got infected was because dad was dominant and injured their mother so badly she went into (natural) narcissistic (injured, self-fixated, animal, trying to survive) *mode*....too weak to help her kids be okay or more than ok. Your toddler is Blueprinting. You do NOT want that in his plans for his Relationship Foundation-laying or he will never manage to erect a building of any type atop it - or not properly. It'll just fall down. (Or he will.) Google why staying with a Narc cheater is bad for your kids. I can help you through it all, if you want/need. You can lean on this place. Don't be worried or frightened. Trust me, it is far more worrying and frightening if you stay. As the saying goes: "Once you find out a Narcissist has cheated on you, s/he will never trust you again". It gets worse. And worse............................. Hiding it from toddler will become impossible. Reason being: if they get away with it, i.e. you don't let them face and live the consequence - they get cockier and nastier. They've done the worst they could do to you, emotionally, and still you stay. So that means, now, they can dooooo THIS! Aaaand, THIS!..... And next time, what with FURTHER damage to your psyche and self-esteem/confidence - you'll be incapable of escape. Equals, TRAPPED. In a torture chamber. With a torturer. Possibly for-life. Sorry. :( It's a common mistake all sane, victimised parents make, to stay for the sake of the kid(s), i.e. not disrupt their (hah) homelife. You haven't and you can't. It's already ruined. She disrupted it irreversibly already. You're just reacting to it in the only self-respectful and child-protective way possible...doing the only sensible, survivalist thing. You're all that toddler has to protect him. But not really sorry. I'm never sorry about helping someone escape from a Hellish existence. Especially when it comes to a truly vulnerable toddler. And especially because, IT'S BEEPING FANTASTIC once they're gone! After the initial pain...."Haaaaaaaaaaaaaah............". And back to Peaceful/Happy/Contented...an easier, more pleasant life. And you're only young, still, so you'll meet someone else soon enough. I repeat: if you're okay (by venting and leaning here so as to stay staunch for toddler at home), then toddler will be okay too...that's how it works: you always scream at sight of spiders - they learn to always scream at sight of spiders. Show him what to do if ever a partner cheats on him. Remember that song: I got along without ya, before I met ya, gonna get along without you now? It's true. (Not for the Narc, though.) The power is all yours. The cage door is open and you have your legs back. You're not alone or heading for ruin. You can come here as often as you need to for strengthening-up and reassurance, etc. “Are you experiencing difficulty relaxing enough to breathe normally?” "I haven’t relaxed about this since I found the first dirty lingerie, and the multiple other discoveries have only made it worse! Hence the disconnect, and music therapy. This advice you have given only makes me sure of what I found, being adulteress behavior. And makes me sure of how to proceed. " Great. But that's not actually what I asked you....I asked you about your breathing? RsVP. ((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))) (The thought is always worse than the actual event. Remember that.)

Sorry, just realised I accidentally reversed the roles here: "The reason why those 3 got infected was because dad was dominant and injured their mother so badly she went into (natural) narcissistic (injured, self-fixated, animal, trying to survive) *mode*....too weak to help her kids be okay or more than ok." Meant - Because MUM was dominant and injured their father so badly, etc. (So that makes it a case of you, having been manoeuvred in her dad's same role, doesn't it.) I'm not certain about that, though, because usually when women cheat, in most cases it's to get a human Taxi out of there, out of the abusive union. Don't know. Are you sure Mum was the problematic element? Who got awarded main custody? At the end of the day, though: one healthy, sane, morally-upstanding parent is enough to save you, the kidie, from becoming a mini-Narc. Two toxics - you probably don't stand a chance at staying healthy-normal unless you're an exceptionally independent- or rebellious-minded child with active warrior genes (fighter, not flighter/freezer/fawner).