Should I date my brother's roommate/best friend?

I'm a 20yr old female, my brother is a photographer in his late 20's who has been living with his best friend on the other side of town for 2yrs. Let's call my brother John and his best friend, Steve. Steve has apparently had a crush on me since he found candid pictures of me on the new camera my brother had helped him buy. That was in the beginning of their friendship 3yrs ago. Steve first approached me on Instagram a few months ago and we were just like acquaintances at first, only texting a few times a week. Because he lived a few hours away, whenever he was in my vicinity, he would ask if I wanted to hangout which I always turned down because of how spontaneous it was. Also because I wasn't interested in being friendly with him. That was until summer break started last month and he asked again one Saturday and I agreed out of sheer boredom. It was my first time officially meeting him and he was absolutely charming. I enjoyed his company and found myself warming up to him which was unexpected. Although it seemed we were now on friendly terms, I turned down any flirtatious advances but he was so persistent to see me again that I agreed on a second meeting, an actual date. I know I shouldn't have and I felt a little guilty about it but it seemed so harmless at the time, and of course my brother wasn't gonna know about it. It was a spa date and I'd never been to a spa but I should've known what it would be like. It wasn't until we were each given a yard of fabric and told to undress that the image was clear in my mind. We'd jumped the gun! I would've left there and then if I hadn't seen a glimpse of how much he'd paid for the appointment. I changed in the bathroom from my cute little black dress to being wrapped in small cotton fabric. We were basically naked next to each other while the massage went on but the lights were dim and our heads were tucked in the headrest so we couldn't see much. At one point, that was the last thing on my mind. The massage was so good, that everything else melted away like the oil the little Asian woman lathered on my skin. It was a life-changing experience, 5-stars. Afterwards, we were left alone and I was so overwhelmed with vigour that I didn't turn my face away when he leaned in for a kiss. In fact, I deepened it. I quickly regained my senses but the damage had already been done. I no longer saw uncertainty and hesitation in his eyes, I'd given him an answer to the unspoken question. Earlier in the day, we'd met up an hour before the spa appointment and gotten food. We ate and talked in his car. There I noticed he was being more forward and flirty-er than last time so I addressed the elephant in the room. I asked him why he was so bent on making an impression on his best friend's sister and questioned the camaraderie men were known to share — the bro code. I was a shocked and flattered when he revealed his crush and the origin of it, "It's not like I'm just trying to fuck around with my friend's sister, I'm trying to do this right. It took me a while to be sure of what I want out of this and that it's worth pursuing. My intentions are pure", he'd said. Those words were probably the major influence behind that kiss despite the vigour. Steve flatters me and makes me feel special but doesn't change the fact that my brother would make all hell break loose if he was to ever find out about anything between us. So although Steve now knows that whatever he feels might be reciprocated, I now know that this is no longer harmless. I haven't texted him since the spa date three days ago but it's been bothering me.

Hi D1S0C1AT3D! Thanks again for your patience. :) Haven't read ahead, taking it one para at a time... "Steve flatters me and makes me feel special but doesn't change the fact that my brother would make all hell break loose if he was to ever find out about anything between us. So although Steve now knows that whatever he feels might be reciprocated, I now know that this is no longer harmless. I haven't texted him since the spa date three days ago but it's been bothering me." How do you know your brother would react that strongly? And why would he? I have other questions, though: How on earth did a new camera feature 'candid' pictures of you? And if this was what kicked off Steve's sudden 'crush' on you (which is a bit shallow, isn't it?), then why in the following 3 years did he fail to do a single thing about it, bar passing by on the off-chance? I'll be honest: his having only ever wanted to hook up at such incredibly short-notice bothers me. Didn't it, you? In fact, his contradictory behaviour and character bothers me, I'll be honest. "I was a shocked and flattered when he revealed his crush and the origin of it" Oh, I see...So this was the first you'd ever heard of it? I repeat: he did nothing about his alleged feelings for you in that 3 years - bar engineer a situation where the chance of your ever saying, 'Sure, come round now!' was too remote. Out of boredom. Ah. This puts a new light on things... Another question: why would you agree to meet at a Spa of all scantily-clad places - on a first date? Why would a bloke suggest it as a first 'official' date? Isn't he making the answer pretty obvious? I'd have thought if he was trying to avoid the imñpression he just wanted to beep around with his friend's sister, then, a spa would be the LAST place you'd take her on a first date! "" Ah... FOUND yourself warming to him. Unexpectedly. Very persistent pursuer. "I was so overwhelmed with vigour that I didn't turn my face away when he leaned in for a kiss. In fact, I deepened it." So IOW; if you hadn't been under the influence of that massage (where your personal-space boundaries get encroached on but with your permission...*ish*), you might not have kissed him to begin with, yes? Not sure, but I'm starting to think this guy's a Player ...which would explain his always 'passing' with too little notice - think about it: he lived hours away from you. If it really was you he was making the journey for then why WOULDN'T he pre-arrange it properly. Hmmmm.... For someone trying to do it right, he couldn't do it more wrong, actually. "It took me a while to be sure of what I want out of this and that it's worth pursuing. My intentions are pure"" How nice and VAGUE. WHAT do you want out of this, matey. WHAT is worth pursuing? Intentions to do WHAT, are pure? See what I'm seeing? And now you're saying in 3 days since that date - not a peep from him? That conversation, I reckon, was him setting the scene of the spa. Maybe the candid photos gave him the wrong idea and he jotted your name in his Little Black Book for a future conquest. I see clear lying, patent lack of respect and sense of superiority (your time is meaningless, you should receive His Highness at the click of his fingers!), and organising a first date that, frankly, was downright insulting to your intentions as well as self-esteem. I hope you haven't rung him - or he you - because I think you dodged a User bullet. Maybe you sensed all this, deep-down, yourself, and that's the real reason why you feel bothered. Food for thought? Certainly, I note a number of Narcissistic traits in him and his behavour. And PS: I reckon that Spa Day is part of his standard "foreplay" repertoire. I don't think you're the first he's taken there. Again - thoughts?

Well damn I really hadn't thought about it like that. Maybe I was being a little too optimistic about it. Probably because I felt he valued his friendship with my brother to that extent but I'm starting to think that's not the case. He did text me a few times in those 3 days though, I just didn't reply but I finally did yesterday and now he's asking to see again. I've turned it down and I'm definitely going to keep my distance. Thanks for helping me see that angle.

Now you know why your brother doesn't want you to 'date' him. And to the extent where if he found out he'd 'GO BALLISTIC'. Yes, because he is placed to know that this guy is a Panda: of bad character (misogynist who enjoys forcing women into 'slutty' situations to humiliate them, then 'eats, shoots and leaves, i.e. s*x as a side bonus - or vice versa...his sort of mal-programmed, back-to-front, downright self-sabotaging beliefs and how badly they make him behave and operate, all depends on the DEGREE. But that is NOT how wannabe boyfriends treat their potential beaus. It's how they treat escorts and prostitutes, hoping that your sassy confidence will drop very quickly down to theirs ('barely there'). Worse, if the women bcomes their 'girlfriend'. This wouldn't be the sort of topic your own brother would feel comfortable about raising with you. Plus, he wouldn't want to betray his (er) friend's confidence. But it's not just *Slutty Steve's disgusting, disrespectful, shoddy treatment (*and Hypocrisy/Dual Standards) of a woman who's done nothing to deserve it - this case, you - is it. There's far more to it... .I reckon this: he's (google) "Pathologically Envious/Jealous" of your brother, probably for petty, irrational reasons, which has pissed-off ol' Player-Pants here (like that'd be somehow your brother's fault...for just being himself... - which - YES, HOUSTON WE HAVE ANOTHER - is one of the hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disordereds - even the pettiest grudges stay fresh until out-of-kilter Revenge is exacted because theirs don't 'dissolve in water' like ours). No, if you were my sister, I wouldn't want you to date him, either. I wouldn't want you going within 10 Feet of him. I would definitely go ballistic. AT HIM - but at you, too, purely to make you back away p.d.q. for your own safety. Like - Get away from my sister, you monster! / And to you: Do as you're told and back away! But I think your brother is fairly ignorant over narcissism and narcissistic attitudes/behaviours because he's assuming this guy, like he himself, has been maturing over recent years, and is solely and purely a monster towards women, and there it ends - meaning, he himself's a bloke - meaning, it's not something he personally needed to worry about in terms of it ever affecting their (pff) best friendship. Well, it is now. He doesn't realise that for any bloke to WANT, let alone BE CAPABLE of treating sweet, sincere women like that - when you'd think he had a mother he loved - and SHE'S a woman, isn't she! - or treating his so-called best friend and housemate like that - is because its second-nature for Sleaze 'em Steven. If it's become your second nature (a habit left too long) to clear your throat a lot as you conversed (e.g. a nervous tic), you would do so everywhere you went, recipient gender, regardless. (That's what I like to call, "a Gotcha!".) John also doesn't realise that no way would a genuine friend try to pursue your sister, let alone behind his back. That's a male buds No-No, as standard, ANYWAY. A GOOD BUD WOULD THEREFORE ASK HIS BEST BUD FOR HIS PERMISSION AND BLESSING BEFORE HE MOVED A MUSCLE. SO AS NOT TO RISK THE ENTIRE FRIENDSHIP! This whole event, says, Steve doesn't give a flying duck if he loses John. Or if he does - that worry is nowhere near any match for his nasty urge to get his jollies whilst treating nice women like cheap beeps (until eventually, repetition makes them, too, believe that's all they are. (Nice.)). ...Maybe he did broach the subject - or in his unfeeling case, did begin convincingly, merely going through those motions - or began feeling John out in an surreptitious way, but which John picked up on, reacted 'negatively' to, which self-assertion outraged Steve (Servant doesn't get to question Master) was Red rag to a Self-Aggrandizing, Antagonistic Bull (typically, "no-one tells ME what to do - I'll show you!')? Maybe, as it never takes much to set them off, your brother, on having to listen to Steve bragging about his latest con and conquest, in a semi-playful manner, trying to be tactful (which doesn't work with Narcs), said something like, 'Haha...Here - don't you ever try to work your game on my lovely sister ...unless you're suicidal?, haha....anyway, she'd never look at your type because (singing your virtues)..., haha'. Maybe John, for-once, said No, to Steve "borrowing" yet another thing of his. Who knows. But it would be something ridiculous as well as inappropriate and non-rightful like that. You can go years not knowing someone was never one's Friend, underneath the mask. They're one's Competitor or Opponent and/or very handy Tool ("Narcissistic Supply", "The Narcissist's Flying Monkeys"). They don't give a sh*t about other people or their feelings. However it might have happened - the Narc Player type would think, 'Oh YEAH? WANNA BET'....simply because it was a blow to Mr Godlike Player's fake or overblown self-image as believes he can get ANY woman, ANY time, "just like that! (*clicks fingers*)", all of that egotistical, posturing, immature schoolboy nonsense. UNLESS.... If it was Steve who told you that John had said all Hell would break loose? RSvP? But whichever scenario.... I need you to read this again under this whole, new light and tell me this doesn't now suddenly sound somewhat sinister? : "It's not like I'm just trying to fuck around with my friend's sister, I'm trying to do this right. It took me a while to be sure of what I want out of this and that it's worth pursuing. My intentions are pure", he'd said. Those words were probably the major influence behind that kiss despite the vigour. It's not like I'm JUST (trying to eff around with my friend's sister). There's more to what I have planned for stupid John than just that. I'm determined to do this RIGHT. It took me a while to decide what I want out of this (- bringing John back down to-size, drag him down a couple of pegs to where he used to sit (at my feet), which pleased me) and that it's worth pursuing. My intentions (to bash him back down to-size) (smaller than Royal Me-Me-Me) are pure. (This would explain why John's threat to go mad (1) was felt very much necessary and (2) has a ring of alarm to it. He believed Steve would. I reckon John's been slowly-but-steadily waking up to Steve, tbh. Any pinging going on in your mind about this?) As for you-hoou... :) I think you HAD thought of it like that, and that's why it was contained between the lines for moi to pick up on. ...Subconsciously, animal to predator-animal level. I don't think you really fancied him, nor even liked him that much, but the whole way through I was getting this idea that the reason you were going near him at all was because of what you DID find him, which was (drum-roll).... FASCINATING! Yyyyyip. That particular trap door catches LOADS of victims. But not you. :) Nearly. But not nearly enough. Well bloody done, gal! You now join a rare statistic. You escaped before you gave him ANYTHING....Bar a quick snog. (The spitoon is this way ----> ;))

BTW - can I see your text and how you turned him down? Narcs believe that the only person with the status and right (Master) to end the relationship (fauxlationship) is exclusively their Royal Highness, not you, their peasant-servant-lackey-sex-toy-etc. who's bloody lucky to have Gorgeous Them (laughable, isn't it!) and should put up with endless sh*t and disrespect. So, you turning him down, will only effect if he wants it to. If he doesn't 'agree - shut your little peasant mouth up because he'll be reeling you back in when it suits him. He'll want to punish you first....before he then properly punishing you behind closed doors, so to speak. Google something like, "Narcissistic Boyfriend Different Ways of Hoovering" (but let me know if you have trouble). Also, "No Contact" (or Zero Contact) and "Going Grey Rock".

PS: Me, I suspect you learned John would (or that John actually would) go ballistic because you were told so by Stevil The Weevil. That way - if the reception you'd given him had been a slap in the face and a, "I'm telling John!" - NOW YOU WOULDN'T DARE BREATH A WORD OF IT. Not until long after he'd finally skipped town and it were clear there were no best budship to save. Your next lesson topic on his wee School Of Life curriculum is: Warning John (of the at-least possibility). Which is going to take some proper thinking-through. Let me know if you need help. Sorry (if I'm right), but ---it's a very sticky train-track, meaning, no getting off for your little carriage until that whole rail section is completed. I know....Tell me about it. That's why Malignant Narcs are so dreaded. They make all these messes and 'rock and hard place' dilemmas that get left to YOU (and your bro) to clean up! But it needs to be tactfully discussed with John some point soon. He warned you, so you've got to warn him back. For the simple reason, that Steve's attempt to betray John didn't suceed. And again, the urge won't just dissolve. There'll be a second, possibly entirely different attempt, possibly that doesn't even involve you this time. Or again, does. Don't know yet. But they're like radioactive gum on your shoe when your hands are tied behind your back. There again, if you're lucky, he might switch targets altogether or get distracted/delayed by some 'fresh skirt'. But it's best to be prepared, the pair of you. Thoughts/feelings?

I hope you're still reading because I need to expound on this: "UNLESS.... If it was Steve who told you that John had said all Hell would break loose? RSvP?" If it was *Steve* who made you believe John would go ballistic if he ever found out you two were 'seeing' one another - other than which, you've not picked up on that from John himself, then, IT WAS A LIE MADE TO STOP JOHN FROM KNOWING, ONCE STEVE BEGAN REALLY ABUSING YOU. Oh, yeah, baby, that is some serious Priming and Isolating The Victim, right there! (Go Google) WELL DONE YOU FOR TURNING HIM DOWN! :)

Yup, I agree with Soulmate here. No sane person would arrange a spa date as their official first date. It is kinda creepy in my opinion. He is giving all sorts of bad boyfriend vibes. If he really wants to get to know you, he would arrange a date where you can talk (walk, hang, smile, flirt) a lot on first few dates to really understand each other. Sensuous spa date is such a turn off. It could be damn relaxing for your body and mind but I would say not so good for your relationship. If it is really easy for him to cross that barrier (you know being your brother's best friend, you meeting him recently, not so much history of you two being together), I'm not sure how long this will last. Better to take this cautiously.. rather best if you could avoid him altogether.