Am I in a narcissistic relationship??

I’m concerned my partner is narcissistic or has narcissistic traits. I’ve been with my partner for eight years and we’ve nearly broken up four times. It’s generally over how controlling he can be. There’s not much room for my own opinion and he crosses over boundaries and quite often shows no respect for me. He’s a very obsessive person. Everything has to be how he wants it. Nothing can be out of place or the slightest crumb left on the dining table. He’s a very strict parent to his daughter and to my two boys from my past marriage. He always looks unhappy and grumpy looking. Loves to moan and complain about nearly everything and anything and gets stressed out at a drop of a hat. We nearly broke up last Xmas as I again didn’t feel heard in regards to my feelings of feeling lonely. It became very toxic between us which was difficult with three children in the home. His daughter who is 10 didn’t want to return to her father’s house because of the arguments. I don’t blame her as I didn’t want to be there either. He’s been diagnosed with depression which I understand, but I feel it’s being used as an excuse at times to treat me unfairly. I remember an incident one morning when he made pancakes for everyone. We had golden syrup and maple syrup on the table to drizzle. My eldest son asked if he could have a little bit of both. I didn’t mind atal, but my partner looked angry and raised his voice and said ‘ can’t you just be grateful boy I’ve made pancakes. You don’t need two syrups!!!’ I cannot for the life of me understand why he felt the need to react that way. It left an awful atmosphere and I questioned why he reacted in that manner. He got very defensive and angry which led us to arguments. I feel he sucks any enjoyment out of things. It leaves me feeling anxious and walking on eggshells. He’s started having counselling for his depression and behaviour. Things have been a little better, but life is still not great. He was encouraged to try taking up a hobby by his therapist which is now gaming on his iPad. I don’t object to anyone having a hobby, it’s healthy to have one. But unfortunately this hobby which has gone on for about 10 months has started spilling over into family and couple time. He already has a demanding job which are long hours so I don’t see much of him, but I accept that. What I feel difficult to accept is I’m on my own most nights when I go to bed because he wants to play his game. He’s up till the early hours of the morning playing. When it comes to the next evening and it’s our quality time we choose to watch something on the tv together. We get 10 minutes in and he’s falling asleep. I try to wake him up gently, but he says I’m not asleep when clearly he is by the snoring sound. He gets defensive and grumpy because I say he’s falling asleep. When my bedtime comes he then wakes up and gets ready to play his game. I’m starting to resent him based on the situation. I feel like a tenant in the house and not a partner. He’s on the iPad first thing in the morning and last thing at night. We recently went on holiday abroad and had to have separate rooms due to numbers/children. My boys came with me and he had his daughter. I accepted that situation couldn’t be changed so we were apart at bedtime. He played his game every night which is fine as we were in separate rooms. But when we got home he still was more focused on the game than trying to focus on some quality time as a couple which was difficult to achieve on holiday. Again he stayed up playing and I was alone. I asked if he’d like to come to bed and he said I’ve got to play tonight. He then offered with a heavy sigh to come up to bed and that he will race early in the morning. I felt like an inconvenience and that he couldn’t go a whole night without gaming. I expressed my feelings to him about how lonely I feel and that I’m exhausted trying to get his attention. His decision didn’t come across as genuine and I got upset and tearful. He said what are you crying for? I felt he was mocking me for having feelings. He then got angry and accused me of telling him off like a child. I’m then told I’m needy and deluded because I dare to ask to have any resemblance of some romance in our relationship. I found those words very hurtful and disrespectful. I ended up going to bed alone in tears. He said sorry for upsetting me, but wasn’t going to say sorry for calling me deluded and needy as he said he shouldn’t have to explain or breakdown what he’s sorry for. I said to him that you should understand and take responsibility for what you’re apologising for , otherwise it’s not a sincere apology. I’m at a point where I don’t know what to do anymore and if this relationship is worth saving???

FluffyBunny, I am SO SORRY that no-one has been available to answer you. You're now at the top of the queue so I'll log-on later today. Hopefully, in the meantime, someone here might recognise your descriptions of how he is and behaves, and come on to compare current or past notes with you. Thanks for your patience - we'll make it up to you. :) Meanwhile, the short answer is: Pff - JUST A BIT? Hold tight, back soon. :)

Thank you so much ☺️ x

Hi again! Will do one post then have supper then continue after.... First off: 1. What are your ages? 2. That Opening Post of yours sounds like a comprhensive list of attitudinal, behavioural, and verbal N.P.D. symptoms. Cover AND Overt at the same time. Severe Narc Covert, or Narc 'Allverts' (my term) Sociopath. So you've checked and compared online, then? Do you know all the terms and labels for those characteristics and ploys? Answer that while I eat supper or at your leisure - you're still top in the queue. :) You're in the right place, tho, no need to worry, you're going to be FINE. (He ain't, though.)

Hi Soulmate, thank you for getting back to me. I’m 43 and he’s 47. I have looked online for many hours over the years about narcissistic behaviour. He’s not very empathetic, very judgemental of others, arrogant and acts like he’s entitled. I’m sure there’s controlling behaviour. Very defensive and quick to get argumentative. If I show I’m not happy with him crossing boundaries that never goes down well. He’ll tell the children about how long they can have on screens, but will not be a good role model of a good example when using his iPad at the dinner table with his phone and vape. Plus the amount of time spent on the iPad can not be questioned. I’m sure I could write a book if given the chance with how much I’ve been through.

"Hi Soulmate, thank you for getting back to me." Well, thank-you for your lovely manners and lovely patience... (very refreshing after having just had a silly troll). (And sorry for the lateness..bit poorly at the mo and it's very up and down.)...So clearly THOSE two mind-muscles have been over-developed (over-used and -stretched), then? Gosh...wonder by who... (Google the terms in quotemarks)... Right - in I go... "I’m 43 and he’s 47." HE'S 47???? Jesus H Christ!!! Uh-oh. You've got a big one. (Not uh-oh, Eek. More, ughrrrch...yawn...earwigoagain....) Forth-Seven (I'M SORRY, BUT TYPING IT OUT IN LETTERS LIKE THAT HAS MADE ME BURST INTO HUGE GAFFAWS!!! Sorry, but - isn't that just LUDICROUS on a man that age, OMG...!) (Ignore me, I never cease to be shocked by these broken machines and chocolate sieves - and that's the differencio between you and I...you're used to it, it's part of your Daily Bread- I mean Dread.) Here - is this him (relationship role and gender immaterial at this point, FYI; and anyway, NPD/NPD-AsPD/AsPD is entirely an Equal Opportunities Employer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY plus this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqm8JGnSshE I'll try again (owww, my ribs hurt! :D).... Forty-Seven and yet... ,,,He's usiing multiple excuses for getting to regress back to his true age, despite his bodily and (er) cognitive (mis)development - the Kid inside his Grown-Up Suit...somewhere between 11 and 15, would you say? Did anything traumatic happen to him back then, that you know about? Or have you heard stories that show he was a dysfunctionally-thinking, spoiled brat even before then? Which are his favourite games (and are they Online, e.g. Xbox Live? "I have looked online for many hours over the years about narcissistic behaviour. He’s not very empathetic, very judgemental of others, arrogant and acts like he’s entitled." (Aaaand the rest!) Loads of sex to "suddenly" no sex, was it? "I’m sure there’s controlling behaviour." Oh, absolutely - me too. You don't know the half of what I can see he's up to, yet! "Very defensive and quick to get argumentative." No. He seeks or creates any excuse to get you to rise to his antagonistic bait, i.e. starts "an argument" (pathological one...can go for hours or sodding days if you get the upper/barrister hand and he turns the thumbscrews with The Silent Treatment). And that's because it mini-traumatises you, which strips you of your confidence and self-confidence some more until one day you realise the thought of leaving him feels like gearing-up to jump off of Ben Nevis and hoping-beyond hope that 80s Batwings come back in in the weeks beforehand so you might at least get to sort-of absail down safely. But what you DON''T realise is (ref. NPD : "LaLa Land" (aka "Opposites'Day-On'Sea") - the victim (definition: didn't sign up for that crap, genuinely wanted a lasting/forever relationship)... ...FALLS *UP*! Either back up to where they were ("Got along withoutcha..before I metcha, gonna get alone without you know"), i.e. Fine. Or higher...and in record time, i.e. BETTER than Fine. And when THAT happens, the guttersnipe in (initially) gentleman's clothing falls DOWN. He's the one that needs you (but more along the lines of, how we Normals need a car), not you. If you think about it, you've been a single parent (what in LaLa Land I call "MumDad") for ages now. You're just addicted (easily dealt with, stick with us, kiddo - practically everyone here has been where you are - use the PP searchbar under Relationships and Emotional and have a forage). And BECAUSE he's the one - and knows he is - that's why has to keep upsetting you, keep keeping you down - in his dungeon - where you can't get out then don't have the requisite mental cylindry to....Feels like the zoo Tiger who's cage door is left open by accident, but daren't leave in case it fails and "the monster" or "The Great Unknown" catches and punishes them/treats them worse from then on, and ensures to remove that opportunity by fitting a self-closing-and-locking door, etc., etc. This is a Domestic Confidence Trick. And these arguments are NOT (or not entirely) due to perceived ego-triggering (his). Say it with me: HE IS NOT ABUSIVE BECAUSE HE GETS ANGRY/WHATEVER HE GETS ANGRY/WHATEVER BECAUSE HE'S ABUSIVE. For years, you said. So it's a "Pervasive Pattern" of Narcissistic attitudes, thinking and behaviour. (FYI, Psychiatrists/Clinical Therapists aren't the ones who diagnose them. The close 'loved'-one(s) do. That's why they even get to see a Psychiatrist. Otherwise - NOPE. (Or the court sends them.) Counselling, my arse. Let me guess: Friday nights? If he's even GOING to a counsellor, then he's doing what they do (my new saying: Swat Narx Do - double-meaning intentional) and lying through his teeth, acting benign and lovely, using his false charm and his vague and tricky language, including "Word Salad" .... Probably making out you're the Narc and he the poor victim....using your very paintive words and phrases as HIS...all of that ("Narcissist - Stealing the Victim Cloak" / " - Projection" / " - Blame-Shifting"), meaning, using the tutorage as an ammo cache. Again, that's if he's even going. They have to control EVERYTHING - including what a therapist might otherwise conclude. Do you have concrete proof he is going? If so - tell me everything you have. "If I show I’m not happy with him crossing boundaries that never goes down well." Of course. They're Boundary Smashers and Coercive Controllers so, 'How very DARE you, mere Slave and once-plaything, think YOU can make any decisions to make YOU feel good instead of me, like this is a relationship or something ha-ha-ha'. NOTE EVERYONE, HOWEVER, (BECAUSE I'M SICK OF THIS WEB MISINTERPRETATION): In the large majority of cases, especially these days, you don't need to START with weak boundaries, they will do that for you. Reduce you. It's merely that the aged/creaky and/or typically lazy veteran ones would rather entrap (aka BBC's "Blue Peter") "...one that someone else made earlier". That is why you MUST. NOT. date too soon after any horrid relationship (to appreciate how the healing path and time is different to NT r/ships - I'll no doubt get to that). THEY CAN SMELL IT....the halfway priming job the last creep did on you. I call it sliming. "He’ll tell the children about how long they can have on screens, but will not be a good role model of a good example when using his iPad at the dinner table with his phone and vape. Plus the amount of time spent on the iPad can not be questioned." Yup, yup and yup. "Narcissist - Gross Hypocrisy" or " - Dual Standards" or " - Superiority Complex". Hypocrisy takes being a SPECIAL kind of Stupid. And that's what we're dealing with: Stupidity achieved in a very short-lived-clever, cunning, devious, mind-effing way. PS: Vapes are proven to be dangerous to kids' lungs. "I’m sure I could write a book if given the chance with how much I’ve been through." Do your first draft notes here. Lily31 has (go look). Any-hoo! Dont-a-wo-rry, Senora. No need. Waste of precious energy (I mean that literally...Energy you're going to need). Question....If I were your fairy godmother/father - one wish! Regarding him/this situation in terms of what outcome. What is it?

(PS: Actually, to give credit where it's due . an OP - original poster - DoggyDilemma 'had' the troll. Go take a look - it's all much of a muchness, really. People's Problems are on the whole created by Problem Peoples...always have been...not on this latest scale, though.)

PPS: I'm glad he's trying to sex-starve you. Understand why he's doing it, how it's supposed to work and you take the power and upsetting aspect of it. He'd be behaving the exact same way with Angelina Jolie or even a young Mother Theresa, I kid you not. DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HIM. It puts you further down his Rabbit-Hole/Dungeon-Hole. YOU DON'T WANT sex with him. He could xmit an STD that ruins the rest of your love-life and quality of life. You would then feel like you'd slept vicariously with a load of women (where, you didn't know where they'd been). Don't even service yourself. Just let the SYMPTOM ugger off naturally. Then he'll have no real hold over you. Say this with me (because I don't want to sleep with him, either, haha!): *I* do not want to have sex with him. I *do* not want to have sex with him. I do *NOT* want to have sex with him. I do not *want* to have sex with him. I do not want to *have* sex with him. I do not want to have *SEX* with him. I do not want to have sex *WITH HIM* *Ugh* For the sake of my children, I do NOT play Russian Roulette. Don't waver once. You can do this - I did, and I had a huge libido. Say you suspect you've got something wrong (non sexual) down there, like "garden songbird variety" or "acid-for-wee" and "era" ("what - AGAIN?" / "I know...s'why I'm so worried, but....you know what getting an appointment's like lately...). This is "Grey Rock" - google. You watch him start to Love-Bomb you again (a bit)...then harder.... STILL don't have s*x with him. It's your Kryptonite. I know he's good at it. They have to be - THINK about it.

Evening Soulmate, Thank you for your response. That was some read and it makes a lot of sense. We still haven’t been talking much since the evening he dismissed my feelings. The arguments caused his daughter to not want to come back again. He’s gone into meltdown because he thinks he will never see her again. His ex wife is seeking legal advice as things have been toxic here again. I would probably do the same to be honest. He says we’re both to blame for her not wanting to come back. I had to defend myself because he still kept making it feel argumentative on the last day his daughter was here. I said I’d go out for with the kids as planned for their benefit, but not for his given the situation. We were meant to go out with all the kids, I’d had enough of feeling like nothing and to not get a sincere apology just pushed me further away. I apologised to his daughter and unfortunately decided to do my own thing with my boys because I couldn’t bear being in the environment any longer. He kept calling, texting to get my attention. Begging me to come back because he was worried about losing his daughter. Saying he will curb the game, which I don’t believe for a second. I’ve been in theses situations before where he makes statements about what he’ll change. That lasts 5 minutes and it’s back to normal service. Tonight has been awful. I went out with my boys to get out of the house for a while. I text him to say I may go food shopping afterwards. He said he may be able to do it another day for me depending on his state of mind. I wasn’t expecting him to do anything. He said he’s struggling and his life is effectively over. I said not to worry about the shopping and that I understand. I’ve had theses comments come up so many times before when things go bad. He told me tonight that he went in the garage and got an extension lead ready to hang him self. I was shocked and angry because I don’t know if it’s for attention, but I also cannot ignore the situation. Suicide came up before when we nearly spilt last Xmas. I felt trapped and couldn’t leave. He did this again in April this year and I ended up calling the police as he left the house saying he doesn’t know what he’s going to do. The police came not long after he came home. After they spoke to him and left he had a go at me for calling them. I did what I thought was best given the situation. I couldn’t go after him with 2 children in the house. I understand depression isn’t easy and unfortunately he lost his mum to suicide 6 years ago. But that doesn’t excuse his unkind behaviour. I’m so tired of absorbing the negativity it’s left me feeling empty. Sorry to have ranted on. I have no one to talk to about it. If you were a fairy godmother I would wish for myself and boys to disappear without trace to live a happy life.

And yes he does have therapy. He complains about that because he has to do homework. He says I don’t have time for that. Has plenty of time to play on the iPad though. It doesn’t show he’s prioritising therapy. He says his therapist patronises him.

Hello Fluffy Bunny and welcome to what I secretly refer to as 'Soulmates Relief Centre' LOL. You'll feel so much better having talked to this brilliant Moderator. A genuine Fairy Godperson. I'd only read your first few paragraphs when I was nodding and saying 'yes you have a Narc' in your household. I only recognised the signs through my own therapy gifted by Soulmate. You're in good hands. The only thing I'd like to say to you is... You're not alone. You matter. Although super difficult you really should make that wish come true. Before it gets worse. If not for yourself but for your boys. (gosh I feel for his daughter) Disappear without a trace to live a happy life. Hop to it Fluffy Bunny. I wish you freedom and happiness. A HUG SENT YOUR WAY. Nobody should make you feel badly for being yourself. Love shouldn't feel like a prison camp. I hope you will Break free.

Ahh, cheers for joining in, DD. Undoubtedly, you can relate to all of that, very, very deeply. Keep going if you like/Fluff likes? (Sorry, but I ain't nicknaming you Fluffy. I had a rabbit called Fluffy, it'll be very off-putting, haha.) And NOOO. This is Richard's Relief Centre. :) Better alliteration as well. Or would be if he changed Centre to Reef. Maybe then we'll get some more Aussies in, eh. (Stop making me blush, you.) But Fluff, You've failed to properly answer all of my questions. E.g. I asked what proof, but all you've said is, He is going to therapy. Yeah? Cheers.

PS: Once you've properly addressed my previous questions, I can then turn my attention to your latest.

Evening Soulmate, Thank you for your response again. Going back to your question about his therapy. I’ve not come across any physical evidence. He normally has a call with them every Monday. He’s been banging on about the homework set for him to do each week and complains about his therapist being patronising and not competent as he’s not long qualified. He’s asked me a few times to put the day and time on the calendar for his next therapy session, so I’m inclined to think he is doing it.

Evening DD, Thank you for your lovely words. That’s greatly appreciated ☺️ It’s nice to talk to others who understand. I don’t really have anyone I can talk to. That’s a welcomed hug. And I really do need one of them!!! Thank you 😊

(Crikey, DD, you've learned fast.) "Going back to your question about his therapy. I’ve not come across any physical evidence." No evidence. Ok. Noted. "He normally has a call with them every Monday." It's phone counselling? But presumably on his own in some room with the door closed/locked, wherever you couldn't possibly interrupt or even accidentally overhear what he's saying to her (- that being his possibly fake pretext?). "He’s been banging on about the homework set for him to do each week" Oh, really? Ever seen him actually sat at the table doing it? "and complains about his therapist being patronising and not competent as he’s not long qualified." "He’s asked me a few times to put the day and time on the calendar for his next therapy session, so I’m inclined to think he is doing it." Oh, ABSOLUTELY. If my husband asked ME to do him a favour and put the day and time on the calendar because he'd severed both arms off, of course I would. Banging on about the homework....suddenly lost the use of his arms and wants to imprint the time/date in y9our mind....HE'S MAKING A POINT- sorry - FAKING A POINT. Making you focus on how he's behaving like someone who actually has therapy on the phone rather than, say, a friend or very close friend.... Hmmmm..... I'm not convinced. Are you??? Has he discussed anything he's learned with you....any revelations about how he used to mis-see things?...anything that show it's got him thinking? PS: As actual kids...er their whole lives (normally), they do this in the over-long run-up to their birthdays. "It's my birrrthdaaay sooon". Basically means, no-one forget (they suffer very deep insecurity deep-down...and up-top, mainly about getting found out and chucked out and what they'd do for money. So that was him, 'saying': Let me draw your attention (and request help) to two acts that, I know you know, someone *wouldn't* do (x 2) if he were lying. (He IS lying, but he's not JUST a liar with his mouth. The idiots put effort in, if no thinking-it-through properly to plan-contingencies or consequences...hence these are the types that just pile another lie on top of the original one, to justify it, and repeat, repeat, repeat... Takeaway: PROPS. HE HAS CONNING PROPS. N-Spath. (Jury's not in, though.) It's only over the sodding phone, once per week - why does it need putting on the calendar anyway? AND WHY ISN'T IT A STANDARD DAY AND TIME SLOT EVERY TIME. Were it me, re you (GRATEFULLY) playing appointments secretary ("It's true, it's true!"), I'd have said: Huh¿ What did your last servant die of? Why can't you do it - the kitchen''s only over there? Or, Ahh, thanks for sharing but I'm feeling generous tonight as well so - I'll let YOU do it, darling. (Give it time - you will.)

Hi Soulmate, I’ve never seen him physically do the homework as he does this in his study. He’s mentioned before about receiving emails from his therapist in regards to homework or appointments. The homework is about what he does with his day, how he is feeling each day etc. He has to record it daily. I’m not normally at home much on a Monday or many other days because I’m at work.

He clearly does everything in his study. Study, eh? Have you got a study? Ah, but he's the man of the house...His Lordship, owner of all he surveys and whose sup-eeer-ior-itay gives him full "authoritah" and status rights. So of COURSE only heeeee needs a study. You don't. You just sit around painting your nails all day (yeah?). Emails downloaded from the web or sent by some sympathetic moll (other gamer friend?), I expect. Or some online off-the-peg Therapy where there isn't any time-pressure nor even phone appointments. Wait a minute! That sounds like, monitoring his "Depression"! That's not going to work. Well, depending on your answers in regards to that aspect, once they come. But I thought you meant, counselling regarding how he's been making you feel and that his marriage is in trouble! But if you can fake having made a suicide attempt and despite it didn't work and clearly you were no LONGER that way when you told you your spouse then why tell her when it's a moot point and you prove that by failing to immediately follow.up your confession with a request for a long, sit-down talk about it or to pick up the phone to your oh-so-flexible counsellor or ring your doctor's emergency out-of-hours line? In which case...then how hard do you think it is to lie and fabricate about something FAR LESS serious, i.e. "I'm getting counselling"? Or to have SOME kind of s*x with your wife, at least make SOME effort. Whichever way you look at it compared to the healthy bloke template: he is NOT taking the deterioration of his so-called relationship with the so-called love of his life FOR-life seriously, along with such a long INVESTMENT in it on his part, any more than he is his own baby's emotional and mental welfare. So I rather think killing himself is the LAST thing he'd do because if you can't take THOSE vitals seriously then what hope for anything else? Why isn't he telling his counsellor? I mean, if he had haemerroids, would he naked, back-up towards you with this bum-cheeks splayed, going, "Is it looking like it's getting worse?". That would be downright anti-social (!!!). And yet he thinks he should tell YOU and not the person he's paid for handling all of that. Course not. She WOULD straight away phone for an ambulance! And there we have it. He doesn't tell her, either because, there is no her, and it's ollocks. What a horrid, horrid excuse for a man he is. What if you'd believed him. What a w***er. (Yeah - precisely.) With a genuinely depressed, adult man, it's called, Help me, I'm having thoughts about suicide and I can't possibly risk doing that to my daughter or you or your sons... Not - I just tried to kill myself in a whole-family-devastating and disturbing, downright macabre, way. Where the kids would see. A real father and suicidal would do it elsewhere...Beachy Head...walk into a train. Real, healthy men don't poo - or in this case, RAZE their own doorstep. (See how this all connects?) Now imagine he's 12-15, wanting to strong-arm you into not leaving him (while it doesn't yet suit him). FITS! (Agree?) Goes with this one: "I didn't ask to be born!!!". He wants you to stick around UNTIL this budding relationship takes off, whereupon then suddenly HE'LL be Mr Let's Separate....AND will want either to take a loooooong time deciding whether or not to divorce (to gain from even more fauxlationship testing and investigating time) OR, it will take off (not by our standards, though) and very quickly, and he'll be off far sooner than you'd ever imagined. Does he keep his study locked? Or keep these questionnaires in a locked filing cabinet? LotsOfPsS: "Saying he will curb the game, which I don’t believe for a second. I’ve been in theses situations before where he makes statements about what he’ll change. That lasts 5 minutes and it’s back to normal service" They can't change. It's a dauntingly massive challenge even for an healthy adult (until one takes the first step and realises it's actually not). You imagine being a kid looking up at that mountainous challenge! Can't change/don't want to, don't know how, don't have the brain wiring (self-discipline and -motivation - powered by sense of duty) to fear or dread it but do it anyway, and, anyway, just dun wanna. BECAUSE IT'S NOT A PROBLEM *FOR THEM* (pathologically selfish, remember). Here's an idea: barge in on a session and ask to speak to the counsellor because you have a vital question. Bet she'll lose signal or something. Shame you can't get hold of his phone to look up his counsellor or try dialling it to see 'what' answers, isn't it. Feel free, though. The gloves are off and he made it so. When all there is to defend yourself is you, you are allowed to defend yourself by any means necessary within-reason. Especially when your protector from the monster under the bed turns out to BE that very monster under the bed. You know it's illegal to change your front and back door-locks, yes? Well, it isn't to add new ones while he's out. Get him out and THEN ask questions. See 100% whether he can even be bothered to answer them. Meanwhile, TELL HIM NOTHING, QUERY HIM OVER NOTHING....tum-tee-tummm.... And delete your history to PP. I do not trust him a jot, Sam-I-Am. Funny how his woes are purely and exclusively torture for YOU, ain't it. AIN'T IT. He's not doing depressed but loving adult married male so you are blocked from dealing with this as a concerned and loving wife. (Oooh, look what he made you dooo.) Do and use what you to have to Case closed, eh. On that score, I mean.

Need to update the self Alert! "It’s nice to talk to others who understand. I don’t really have anyone I can talk to." Edit: It’s nice to talk to others who understand. I didn't really have anyone I could talk to. (Self Talk costs lives.)

(Stick around DD! :))

PS DD: "I only recognised the signs through my own therapy gifted by Soulmate." No - and because you've lived through narc abuse basically your entire life. You got to ARTICULATE AND LABEL the signs. (Geddit right, you two? LOL)

"He says I don’t have time for that. Has plenty of time to play on the iPad though." Oxymoron. Like... She spent her last Penny on a purse. ...From an ox-like moron. This is his ancestor singing: There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza, There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, a hole. So fix it dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, So fix it dear Henry, dear Henry, fix it. With what should I fix it, dear Liza, dear Liza, With what should I fix it, dear Liza, with what? With straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, With straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, with straw. But the straw is too long, dear Liza, dear Liza, The straw is too long, dear Liza, too long. So cut it dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, So cut it dear Henry, dear Henry, cut it! With what should I cut it, dear Liza, dear Liza, With what should I cut it, dear Liza, with what? With an axe, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, With an axe, dear Henry, an axe. But the axe is too dull, dear Liza, dear Liza, The axe is too dull, dear Liza, too dull. So, sharpen it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, So sharpen it dear Henry, dear Henry, sharpen it! With what should I sharpen it, dear Liza, dear Liza, With what should I sharpen, dear Liza, with what? Use the stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, Use the stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, the stone. But the stone is too dry, dear Liza, dear Liza, The stone is too dry, dear Liza, too dry. So wet it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, So wet it dear Henry, dear Henry, wet it. With what should I wet it, dear Liza, dear Liza, With what should I wet it, dear Liza, with what? With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, water. With what should I carry it, dear Liza, dear Liza, With what should I carry it dear Liza, with what? Use the bucket dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, Use the bucket, dear Henry, dear Henry, the bucket! There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza, There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, a hole. (A Hole. Precisely.)

"I understand depression isn’t easy and unfortunately he lost his mum to suicide 6 years ago. But that doesn’t excuse his unkind behaviour." Not one iota. It's a very common ruse of an excuse by Narcs. Definitely one of the older chestnuts. And he's been more or less acting like this FOR YEARS. LIKES his apparently incurable depression merely being mmaintained, does he? Course. Cos then he gets to play Xbox with whichever Little Miss Hex Box. HERE'S THE THING (READ UP, DD): THEY'RE KIDS. WHO GET THEMSELVES INTO TROUBLE. LIKE ADDICTION. THEY'RE CHILDISH ENOUGH TO GET *INTO* TROUBLE BUT NOT ADULT ENOUGH TO GET THEMSELVES BACK OUT AGAIN (...ain't that right, Gastric Band-ers). They don't do what normal-healthies do - pour water on the fire (that only they started). They throw fat. Same reason they think starting to cook a new dish while abandoninig the failed one (now catching on fire on the hob) is any kind of solution to the fact you're not happy in your marriage. But they are NOT actually thick. They're NOT not happy with their marriage - they've got it exactly how they like it (master-slave, getting to do whatever, whenever they like without consequences). What they're REALLY doing - SOMETIMES PRETENDING TO DO, NOTE! - is turning the thumb-screws because lately you've been making 'don't care, doesn't' hurt' noises, or failing to react at all....and NOT pandering to them and their ridiculousness any more. Turning the thumb screws ("okay, okay, I submit!"). A really, really BIG shock to your system and he'll be able to lead you gently and docilely back to your little pen...until you, stunned, have gone through enough motions that, BECAUSE you have, have somehow become his lifelong rights (only his, not yours)....like: getting to write His Evil Lordship's appointment time on the calendar like his P.A. 'Listen, pal. You ain't keeping your appointments with ME (i.e. in the bedroom). So I ain't keeping yours, either. YOU DECIDE, if you want that to change. Meanwhile... (chuck pen in general direction and walk off).' New Mantra: NO WORK? NO PERK! The Police were annoyed because they could tell he had been pulling the wool and that you'd bought it. That, however, doesn't excuse THEIR behaviour, either....sodding unprofessional, taking their job-frustrations out of you (Haribo Policemen by the sounds). As if YOU were to know! As if YOU were superhumanly brave enough to risk it! Nor would anyone, at that point! Up their bums. Shame you didn't report them. Next time, anything like that - tape it on yuor phone. But the point remains: buy it, they DIDN'T. ****So, in fact, you DO know for a demonstrated fact, that he was entirely faking it again THIS time, too...even before I analysed and reorientated it.***** (Spaths don't just Word Salad, they Action Salad too (as obstruction), like the above rhyme (use a welly-boot, eejit). Malignant Grandiose Narcs, Covert fire-starter with Overtness, including Vulnerability (boo-hoo me) to mask/distract from the smoke to give the 'thing' a chance to burn to a crisp, AND passive-aggressiveness to-boot (i.e. burps deiberately in your face when not doing it involuntarily...twice the fun). Pfff....I MAY do it, DEPENDING ON. In that case, luv, I may include you at supper-time and bother putting your washing in the machine with mine and the boys DEPENDING ON. This one is really, really irritating the bejeez out of me. You poor thing. Bloody well endured though! Wheeeuuuuugh - champion weight-lifter!

DD, don't worry about that daughter. She doesn't take it lying down because her mother doesn't. And that gives her the confidence TO be brave, knowing she has a Cagney to her Lacey ever-ready in the background as back-up. S...ow it works, innit. (And yeah- any good parent would have done what she did.)

Here - try this one, see if it works. Think of something he's been promising to do but never has, and ask him NOT to do it as if that's the new favour. Oh, listen, don't, um, do the dah-dah because I want to X and I just haven't had a chance yet, wanna do it as soon as I get home. Or You want him to arrive at 9.45 but he's always late: "Okay, but don't be any earlier than 10, will you, because X...and if you're early it'll really stuff me up. (Ta-daaaa!) Opposites Day Reverse Psychology... and it works GGGGREAT with covert and/or passive-aggressives. "YOU don't get to tell ME what to do!" / "I do, actually, I just have to be sneaky about it". However, the sad point is: You shouldn't ever have to.

"With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry, With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, water. With what should I carry it, dear Liza, dear Liza, With what should I carry it dear Liza, with what?" With your MOOU-OOUTH, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry With your fckn-MOOU-OOUTH, Dear Uuurgh! So you can SHUT UP! (Sorry haha)

Oh no - look what I typed up there: "But Fluff," HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! (No, that's him.) PS: "That’s a welcomed hug. And I really do need one of them!!!" Hint taken. (((((((((((HUG (you ain't got Covid have you?)))))))))))))))

"The homework is about what he does with his day, how he is feeling each day etc. He has to record it daily. " Monday: played Xbox Tuesday: and again Wednesday: same Thursday.... Felt Xboxy.

""YOU don't get to tell ME what to do!" / "I do, actually, I just have to be sneaky about it"." But soon you won't. Soon you'll talk in clear, direct words, have peace and quiet, get to re-discover fall in-love with your sons all over again. Because he conned you that he was a grown, normal, decent, healthy-enough adult male. (Your workload will be lighter without him around, constantly sucking the joy of living out of you, and starving you to death WHILE HE GORGES ON SOMEONE ELSE. And you're still young so by the time you've de-slimed (though you've been grieving INSIDE the relationship, which has cut it in half at least, by the sounds) and still feel confident about undressing with your future, GENUINELY NORMAL, NICE guy. He'll be older too so it doesn't actually matter. Genuines don't want younger women. They want someone who remembers the pop groups they loved, etc., etc., etc. They don't want this: "Who's Elvis?". Normal-healthies find that a total turn-off. Narcs don't care because they're not even looking for a romantic partner, just a Little Woman chained to the kitchen sink (psychologically will do) so - pff...sod what features she comes with.) You're that co-star from Big - Susan. Dating Josh. I think you should watch that. On your own. And have the tissues ready because I reckon the recognition will hit home hard. WHICH IS GOOD. It'll be like, the final straw. Yep, not in Reality but certainly in LaLa Land - you're an unwitting, unwilling Paedophile, or rather, have been tricked and forcibly manoeuvred into that positon. You sleep - sorry, once slept - with your own - sorry some other woman's - permanent Tweenie. Forty-seven. Unbelievable. New record, in fact.

Evening Soulmate/DD You’ve actually made me smile and even laugh with some of your brilliant comments. I’ve not done that for a while. Last time I tried to have a giggle was with my boys watching silly videos on tv. I got told to keep the noise down!! 😡 It was evening time and he was still WORKING!! There’s no actual time when we can make a little bit of noise which I think is not normal. It’s the house of silence. Going back to his therapy. I’ve not seen any paperwork. I think it’s through email. It wasn’t the police who had a go at me, it was him after the police left. He wasn’t happy that I called the police because he said ‘ if this gets out to my ex wife, I’ll never see my daughter anymore ‘. I did what I thought was necessary given the situation. Again I felt to blame. When he recently ( supposedly) went into the garage to get an extension lead to hang him self he told me that day by text he is seeking professional help. He then sent a text by mistake to me which was meant for someone he was talking to( which I’m guessing is someone online in regards to suicide support) saying ‘ My partner and her children will be home some time soon. I am still at our home. That will stop me doing anything but I have already thought about trying again tomorrow. I tried to tell her earlier that I was desperate and in a bad way and her response was that I was trying to guilt trip her’ The suicide support worker said he should tell me how bad he is. But the support worker hasn’t a clue of what is all going on. Her focus is to help and support people in a suicide situation, so she’s going to do what’s best. We’ve barely spoken to each other and he’s chosen to sleep on the couch. He left the house for 2 days last week after what had happened and then moaned about saying ‘ you weren’t the one who had to sleep rough for two days ‘. He choose to do that. I didn’t know where he went. Me being the soft one checked in on him and asked if he was safe. I get in return ‘ I’m fine, don’t worry ‘ Whatever I say or do, it will never be right.

With you asap! Respondents thin on the ground again, meh.

No problem Soulmate ☺️X

"Evening Soulmate/DD You’ve actually made me smile and even laugh with some of your brilliant comments. I’ve not done that for a while." Fantastic sign, that you can laugh! "Last time I tried to have a giggle was with my boys watching silly videos on tv. I got told to keep the noise down!! 😡 It was evening time and he was still WORKING!! There’s no actual time when we can make a little bit of noise which I think is not normal. It’s the house of silence." Again - very typical, for an (unqualified) Dominator. But then I guess it WOULD put him off his (cough) stride, hearing laughter. Plus, in with that would be this: As far as you're aware, I'm depressed so YOU should all be depressed! Also, your boys are giving you attention and buildng you back up while he's there, busily trying to tear you down. They're so cute and lovely, aren't they? I'd like to make him my pet and squish him. No, wait, I meant, call him Squishy. And THEN squish him. "Going back to his therapy. I’ve not seen any paperwork. I think it’s through email." 'You THINK'. But don't know. Gosh. Hasn't anything she's sent him affected him deeply enough that he wanted to print it out? For all you know, his Xbox game screen is his cover for online porn or something. "It wasn’t the police who had a go at me, it was him after the police left. He wasn’t happy that I called the police because he said ‘ if this gets out to my ex wife, I’ll never see my daughter anymore ‘. Oh-oh-oh-OH! (Sorry.) Okay, then. Another Old Chestnut, called, Wanting to have his cake and eat it. (Means eat yet keep your cake, as if you haven't)...a la - You weren't meant to call my bluff you stupid (whatever). "I did what I thought was necessary given the situation. Again I felt to blame." You did what all sane thus concerned people do when recognising they are utterly out of their depth and shouldn't risk it for a biscuit. "When he recently ( supposedly)" You're getting with the programme - well done! "went into the garage to get an extension lead to hang him self he told me that day by text he is seeking professional help. He then sent a text by mistake to me which was meant for someone he was talking to( which I’m guessing is someone online in regards to suicide support)..." (I doubt it.) "...saying ‘ My partner and her children will be home some time soon. I am still at our home. That will stop me doing anything but I have already thought about trying again tomorrow. I tried to tell her earlier that I was desperate and in a bad way and her response was that I was trying to guilt trip her’ Another Old Chestnut....'Whoops...that wasn't meant for you'. OH, YES IT WAS. It's known as, his keeping his extra-sharp, extra-large* Sword of Damocles constantly waving just above your head: Fail to give me constant attention and the puppy (this case, him) (rabid, obviously) will get it! Threatening to leave "if".... I repeat: highly common. USUALLY, with 'plain' Covert/Covert-Vulnerable Narcs, the threat is to leave/chuck you out/end the relationship. This is WAY BIGGER...WAY MORE EXTREME. (Jury's convinced on Narc-Spath: bigger, heavier, riskier, even sacrilegious. They have a conscience but it's too puny to stop their corrupt morals. Also, they're two-tracked minded, meaning, just because one is their SPOUSE, doesn't give them special dispensation; they're still game for being conned, head**cked, financially abused or stolen from...."YOUR fault for being so trusting, you sap!" "The suicide support worker said he should tell me how bad he is. But the support worker hasn’t a clue of what is all going on." Eeeexactly! "Her focus is to help and support people in a suicide situation, so she’s going to do what’s best." Yup. "We’ve barely spoken to each other and he’s chosen to sleep on the couch." Why has he - on what basis? Oh, no, you didn't dare state your CASE, did you?...and this is him, covertly punishing you under the veil of, being helpful? Example: Wife: PLEASE don't just grab my breast from behind like that, especially when I've got both hands in the sink; it feels very cheap and disrespectful. Covert/Cover-Vulnerable: Oh, well...in that case, I won't cuddle you AT ALL, then! Is that what this is? "He left the house for 2 days last week after what had happened and then moaned about saying ‘ you weren’t the one who had to sleep rough for two days ‘. He choose to do that." YYYYUP! Henry PUT the hole in the bucket, just to get out of having to maintain his tools and equipment as well as (now) fetching the water AT ALL. 'If you keep insisting I collect water from the Well then I'm going to give you a really emotionally/mentally hard time UNTIL YOU DON'T!". Another way it's been described (on the web) is, 'I can't MAKE you do as I say. But I can make you wish you had.' "I didn’t know where he went." Course not. HE'S not your husband? So why should he fulfill your Right To Know?? YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS as far as he's concerned.... MASTER/JAILER - SLAVE/CAPTIVE. Straight Coverts are after constantly scoring ego points and other means to make you 'look fatter' so that they can APPEAR thinner when stood beside you in that communal changing room and make you feel so non-confident that you start to agree with the illusion and 'collapse into yourself' (bowed head and shoulders) until you also look shorter....rather like someone syphoning your car petrol in the night. N-Spaths (overt to hide/distract from the covert, plus passive-aggression) don't bothering syphoning, they try to steal your whole car. (Sense?) "Me being the soft one" GOOD. Healthy men LOVE that and protect and nurture it. Don't change!...Nor your self-perception, change your so-called Partner. "checked in on him and asked if he was safe. I get in return ‘ I’m fine, don’t worry ‘ Whatever I say or do, it will never be right." It's like this: Worry when it serves me. Don't when it doesn't. I.e. READ MY MIND! It's known as, "Can't do right for doing wrong" (yawn - chestnut...). He's ridiculous and pathetic and nasty-minded and effing cruel and just all-round (N-Spath identifier) JUST TOO MUCH. Just TOO MUCH. RELENTLESS. NEVER SEEMING TO LEARN LESSONS. (The 'weight' of them is incredible, isn't it?) Only one juror is on the fence now. I want to know about the financial side of your marriage, please. I also want to know if at any point of the fauxlationship he tried to get physically intimidating or overtly aggressive with you. And also whether, before it ceased, the sex was starting to feel cheap or tacky - or like you had somehow become a mere, inanimate, sex toy or blow-up doll being performed onto? Additionally, whether earlier, if ever you tried to move his hand or shield a part of you with yours, because he was being too rough/heavy-handed, he would ever respond by tutting or irritatedly swiping your hand out of the way as if to say - Who told YOU you could influence/partake in this - get the hell out of my way! Oh, and, whether he has any perplexingly or childishly-disgusting personal habits that he or anyone should do in private but he does in full view?

Oh, and - whose house is it or was it originally?

Sorry - lost a sentance there: "Oh-oh-oh-OH! (Sorry.) Okay, then. Another Old Chestnut, called, Wanting to have his cake and eat it. (Means eat yet keep your cake, as if you haven't)...a la - You weren't meant to call my bluff you stupid (whatever). Also known as, wanting to behave exactly as he likes (and sod social and legal rules and expectations) WITHOUT ANY NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCE." Really, the only answer to - "He wasn’t happy that I called the police because he said ‘ if this gets out to my ex wife, I’ll never see my daughter anymore ‘. is this: "Then you shoulda thoughta that ((, dipsh*t)) before cavalierly playing deadly serious games ((, moron))" Also....what I call an Unobvious Bleedin' Obvious: IF, HAVING "FAILED" HIS ATTEMPT, HE STILL WANTS AND INTENDS TO TRY TO KILL HIMSELF THEN - WHY WOULD NOT GETTING TO KEEP CUSTODY MATTER ONE JOT! You can't get more terminated as a shared custodian than killing yourself. That's a "Gotcha!". GOTTIM!!! WORD SALAD IN A "TRUTH WRAPPED AROUND A LIE" STYLEE! = Fcknnspath. (*said through gritted teeth*)

And by the way... "‘ My partner and her children will be home some time soon. I am still at our home. That will stop me doing anything but I have already thought about trying again tomorrow. I tried to tell her earlier that I was desperate and in a bad way and her response was that I was trying to guilt trip her’" He's using this (IMO non-existent) therapist to "Triangulate" you....calling in an illusory troop. Bet you any money he's going to start saying, Well, MY THERAPIST SAYS IF YOU DON'T 'X' THEN YOU'RE 'Y' (EFFECTIVELY 'HORRID'/UNREASONABLE/THE ONE AT FAULT AND IN THE WRONG). And whatever Y is - it wouldn't be something you'd ever want to be seen as or even halfway associated with (because you've worked hard your whole life to be the distinct opposite)....or some strength of yours has been deemed by her (remind me - was it a her??) a fault/inadequacy/weakness. Tomorrow or as soon as I have time, I'll look up using their duped or non-existent (usually) therapist to Triangulate. PS: Did you ask to see the original - email?...text message? - of hers that he (hah!) mistakenly sent to you? PPS: It's funny how their whoops!-missends are always so serendipitous.... so well-timed and HELPFUL to their aim/agenda. I SAID - FUNNY, THAT. Sometimes, they're so unconscionable, so 'laughing at a funeral AND defacating on an alter', you just want to- OOOOOH!!!! He's really getting me agressive. Not a good sign. Don't have any more talks nor give him any data/feedback...keep your powder completely dry and check with me BEFORE you make any 'bid to escape' type move. The DEGREES he can go to (NPD Covert - taboo-skirter; NPD-AsPD - taboo nuclear-bomber) are a tad concerning. Can you, please? Because you'll need pre-information to do it successfully first-time round.

Evening Soulmate, Thank you so much for your feedback again. I’ve not seen any email in regards to his therapist, ( I have no opportunity to look and I’m not sure I feel comfortable to ask ) but he said tonight he’s cancelled this weeks session due to what’s happened. ie his daughter no longer comes to visit He told me the therapists response was ‘it's not ideal to cancel’ . I’m not sure how I can go about seeing the text from the suicide support worker when we’re barely around each other much at the moment. Things have been calm, but I’m not going out of my way to try and feel like we’re a couple. He wasn’t overly interested in spending quality time with me before, so why should he now. We both had our own houses 3 years ago and sold up to move into a new build home. Sex between us has become the same routine. There’s barely any romance and fore play barely comes into it. So yes, I do feel like a sex doll at times. If I do try to suggest something it soon goes back to his way. I don’t feel like he embraces my feelings and body, it just feels like sex. He expects me to soothe myself in the middle of having sex and if I sometimes don’t, he won’t get the finish he desires and tells me to do it. It’s the same position with me facing away so he’s behind me most of the time. We kiss for a little bit at the start, I feel like he’s just oiling up the engine to get stuck in straight away. There’s not much real intimacy or emotional connection. The last time we had sex he went downstairs afterwards to play on the iPad. No cuddling or just laying there together. Bad habits: Likes to pop his spots on his face in the living room when we’re watching tv. Pulls nose hairs and ear hairs out too and flicks them on the floor. Passes wind all the time, but what man doesn’t. BUT if my son dares to clean out his eyes ( he gets gunky eyes sometimes which is uncomfortable) he’ll tell him to ‘ stop picking your eyes ‘ even though he’s using a tissue to discard it. Swearing is awful!! He can be inappropriate in front of the kids. He’ll so called playfully call my boys gaybo’s so they call him things back. His response is to give dead arms or twist arms. We had a big argument over a year ago and he wouldn’t let me through the kitchen door. He stood in my way. His excuse was he was trying to calm me down. I just wanted to get out of there!! He once raised his fist with his phone in his hand when he got frustrated when arguing. He’s self destructive and I’ve seen him many times banging his head against the door or smacking his own forehead. I once said something jovial when we were cooking dinner for us all including his dad and he saw it as an attack on him. He came up to me and twisted my wrists which I thought was very spiteful and hurt me. I suffer with carpal tunnel so my wrists ache and are weak at times. I couldn’t understand why that was necessary to react that way. I felt pretty upset for the rest of the day. If I wanted to piss him off I certainly could have said something that I know would upset him, but he got very defensive over something very light hearted. I wouldn’t go looking to start an argument with him as I know how that goes. I cannot remember what I said exactly. I wish I could as it drives me crazy sometimes when I struggle to remember what’s been said when put in these brain frazzled environments. I literally feel like I need a dictaphone on full time, because I never really know what will upset him and to have proof of what’s been said and the tone of how it’s said. Even when I’ve met his friends on many occasions, they all say how much I’ve calmed him down as I’m a very happy go lucky, chilled out patient person. It’s a bit concerning knowing he was a very angry and confrontational person before. But unfortunately they don’t see everything I see at home. Even on our recent holiday we argued. My youngest needed the toilet for a number 2 and we weren’t close enough to the hotel, so I took him to a restaurant we had eaten in before to use the toilet. The owner was kind enough to let us in. My son took a bit longer then usual as unfortunately he had a bit of an upset tummy. We walked back to meet him and the kids to be greeted by a grumpy response. WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG!! He looked really pissed off. He knew I had to find a toilet and wait for my son to use it. I said I cannot control how long it takes a child to use a toilet. He got argumentative and kept banging on about how quick my son is using the toilet at home, so why any different. No empathy that my son had an upset tummy and certainly has no patience for anything. I couldn’t believe this was turning into an argument. I didn’t appreciate the tone he spoke to me in and it gained nothing but stress. And all in front of his daughter which he has to tread carefully with because of the toxic situation before which led her to not want to come here. If he’s so wanting to preserve his relationship with his daughter, why is it he can speak to me like shit in front of her, but if I dare to defend myself I’m not thinking about her needs to be in a calmer environment. In some ways I think it’s best she’s not here, as I don’t feel he’s setting a good example of how to treat someone you supposedly love. I don’t wish for her to think that is how relationships work and that it’s acceptable to treat someone like that. She’s even said to my boys about how strict he is. Her friend doesn’t even want to come here as she thinks he’s scary looking and doesn’t like him.

Overwhelmed again - bear with!

PS just quickly: After reading all of that, numerous times to see in between the lines as well . the question is no longer, Is he a Narcissistic Sociopath (NPD-AsPD - anti-society/anti-social Personality Disorder - commonalities with malignant but "everyday" narcissistic psychopaths. The question is now: How could he NOT be! I sat there, going, Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, shit-tick, ugh-tick, tick.... the symptoms came thick and fast, including my own experiences! Jury's in And he's guilty as sin You really ought throw this bad egg in the bin He creates such a stink That you barely can think And now, is abusing your kin. That's me channeling my abject, seething-white fury towards him and his so-called family and their so-called family..... DON'T LEAVE THEM ALONE WITH HIM - EVER-EVER-EVER! BETTER AND MOTHERLY YET - SEE A SOLICITOR, TELL THEM EVERYTHING YOU'VE TOLD ME AND GET AN INJUNCTION SO THAT HE HAS TO MOVE OUT, IMMEDIATELY. Start to think about it. But again, do nothing until I can dedicate proper time to this. (I've got a queue and I've got guests - heeelp meeeee!) But seriously: this needs clever planning. Wow. Stupid idiot....doesn't he know you never poke the lioncubs in the eye, right in front of the lioness? Wow...talking about testing how far he can push your, not just boundaries, but ...physically as well as emotionally hurting your kids? What kind of giant, unconscionable bully is this??? (well, we know what type, but...........GAAAAAH....he's one hell of a risk-taker (tick!). He's trying to make you "lose it". He'll tape YOU. (Never mind - yes, get a dictaphone - I did and it was invaluable...and btw: it's a victim-identifier if she/he feels they have to start taping the Narc's so-called converation - both to analyse at their leisure AND because victims generally CAN'T remember 'what started it' as set the monster off. Answer: nothing. It was just time for another slapping....keeping you nearest the floor where you're shortest. He's more afraid of you than you are, him - I'll explain tomorrow/soon).) Incredible. What normal, grown, healthy male would ever - EVER - bully little kids. Even THINK of it, let alone release it! AND STILL SLEEP AT NIGHT! PFF... wouldn't ever occur to them - except in nightmares and horror films (ones they'd have to walk in on)! Suicidals don't have time or energy for bullying. And if they even had it in them to bully, which they don't - they wouldn't have REACHED the state of suicidal (duuuuuh? - to him) (oh, yeah, he's so Spath I can HEAR him!) (good news is, he's as thick as the rest of them.....cunning, devious, furtive - and thick. NOT a workable combination. It makes them ham-fisted, meaning, they ALWAYS go too damn far...overshoot...) BTW: Spaths specifically, all have a thing for the back door (tick). "Whoops, wrong hole!" (/ "(slap!) Whoops, wrong face") (don't anyone try that unless you know offensive self-defence). Oh yes - also likes disturbing and/or violent and/or noisy and/or misogynistic films?....turned up when the kids are upstairs in bed, so they can overhear the disturbing soundtrack, even if 'just' in their still shallow sleep, by any chance? PS: "‘ My partner and her children will be home some time soon. I am still at our home. That will stop me doing anything but I have already thought about trying again tomorrow. I tried to tell her earlier that I was desperate and in a bad way and her response was that I was trying to guilt trip her’" He's using this (IMO non-existent) therapist to "Triangulate" you....calling in an illusory troop.) I'll go into this, explain how I can tell....just putting it here so I can't forget. Probably wouldn't forget though. He's sooo back-to-front-upside-down-inside-out REPULSIVE, DISGUSTING, UUUUUUGH!!!! Sorry, I meant: don't fancy yours much, luv. But then, clearly, by now, neither do you. (Could anyone??? Kid-basher, UGH!!!!) Poor sofa. Course, you realise - that gives him night-long, easy access to the stuh-stuh-stuh Study? (They do not do ANYTHING to benefit ANYONE but THEMSELVES.) PSS: He loves injuring wrists, doesn't he. Knows how much it hurts...particularly on delicate skin or already injured wrists. Interestink. We'll put that one on the counter-Ammo list. That, and the fact he's only 7. I don't even want to THINK what was done to him. But it's far too late now. He's a zombie, alright. And whilst I'm at it (can't stop seething!) - also, a *healthy, decent* but genuinely depressed male wouldn't WANT his daughter around him, let alone your kids full-time!...both for his AND their sakes AND their future relationship! Thank-you for being so honest, Fluff. Your chances of getting out unscathed, quite probably smelling of Roses, just shot up. :) Keep it up! Don't post again yet, though. I am NOT! finished with him...

Oh wait - scratch that! FINANCIAL RELATIONSHIIP NEXT, PLEASE. I know you don't want to go there, but...It's super-important. PS: Bet that before he met you, he either couldn't have afforded and/or didn't want to spend too much of his money on a family house.

Evening Soulmate, Thank you again for your helpful feedback. It gives me some peace of mind knowing I’m not going completely crazy. Financially he put more into the house. He was mortgage free when he sold his previous home. I was not. Money is something he seems to take authority over. He uses this quite often to make me feel I’m indebted to him. He’ll say things like ‘ all the things I’ve done for you financially ‘, ‘ I’ve put a lot more into this house ‘ . Even on holiday I felt I couldn’t make any decisions on what I spent my spending money on. It didn’t feel relaxed, which was pointless if you’re on holiday. We brought a budget with us and didn’t even spend half of it. I’m not saying that we should have gone wild, but the sole purpose of a holiday is to not worry and enjoy the finer things in life for one bloody week of the year!!! I said to him one lunch time on holiday, ‘ I don’t want the kids to feel starved, can we get some lunch ‘ as they had been swimming a lot and not eating dinner till quite late at night. It had no malice or nasty tone. ( we’d been having just a small bag of crisps, a few crackers. Nothing overly substantial or exciting given we were on holiday ) He took this really badly and said ‘ I don’t like your tone or attitude. Don’t forget who subsidised some of your holiday ‘ . I said I wasn’t trying to make things difficult. I said I won’t say another thing. So I just went and layed on the sunbed. His reply was ‘ got nothing to say as usual ‘. I told him I didn’t like how he spoke to me. He said ‘ if you’re going to be like that you can go and fuck off’ I told him I didn’t appreciate being told to fuck off and that none of that was necessary. I work so hard in my job and felt my holiday was deflating and wasn’t worth what I spent on it for the stress it caused. I can’t tell you how many times he was on his calculator working out the cost of everything!! Always talking about how much a meal was. I really didn’t care!! As long as it was sensible spending I just wanted to enjoy it not keep tabs on everything. He has plenty of savings. Over £50k sitting in the bank. He’s said things in the past that his pension will be for us. But that will be under his control. I feel I have no independence to have my own financial security ie my own pension. Even when I’ve been food shopping which isn’t cheap anymore, he’ll ask me how much it was. I tell him it was over £100. His response ‘ well if you buy strawberries what do you expect ‘ I buy the cheapest strawberries available. And that one item doesn’t define the full cost of the shopping. Everything has become more expensive. He doesn’t have a clue as he doesn’t do any food shops. It’s another dig at me as usual. When we’ve argued and I’ve had to leave the house to get some space, he’ll question what I’m doing for dinner and if I eat out somewhere ( which I’ve had to do before because I’ve not wanted to go home ) he’ll say you can’t afford to eat out. You shouldn’t be throwing money away or you’re feeling flush. You’d be better off coming home to cook instead. It was a cheap meal if anything, but he couldn’t help but keep tabs on me with constant texting. We’ve had another big falling out. His ex wife sent a text saying their daughter told her mum that I said ‘ I’m sorry you’re daddy isn’t being a very kind person ’ . I said this in front of her and my boys when we had been arguing about him not caring about me feeling lonely. It probably wasn’t the most sensible thing to say. It came out when I was in tears after the kids asked me if I was ok. It’s so hard knowing that his daughter has a father like that. But she’s seen and heard enough to know that herself already by now.

Yup. You`re being Financially Controlled and Abused on top of Emotionally and Psychologically; this giant monster's giving you the whole abusive kit 'n caboodle. He's NOT, however, a Parasite, despite by controlling, depriving and neglecting you and the kids, gets to save money at your expense. But he's not a Malignant Covert-Vulnerable because this financial abusiveness is Overt, rather than hidden. He's a Silver Spoon Sociopath. In which case, what we will have going on is: overt financial abuse as a cover for the behind-the-scenes squirelling. Silver Spoon N-Spath, high-functioning in the commercial world, low functioning in his personal relationships. (Works in the financial sector and/or plays with Shares, does he?) "He’s said things in the past that his pension will be for us. But that will be under his control." I would have replied - Don't think for one minute you'll get any of that money; you'll probably be traded-in for an easier/"better" doormat because, despite you back down every time afterwards, he still fails to stop you from persisting in getting the first punch in (- as he perceives it - via you "criticising" His Highness). Baaaad little Slavie! (Good.) He's monstrous from every single angle of abuse. You must have a LOT of anger in you, though. I doubt just one "punch" here and there is enough to release all that banked-up resentment. It has to go somewhere so - what physical ailments do you keep suffering (existing now worsened plus new)? Are you havingi trouble sleeping beside him, as in, being able to drop off? Does he have to be asleep first? But anyway. This is too bad to tolerate, now. Have you started asking around any of your divorced friends or schoolmums re an NPD au-fait Divorce Solicitor/Lawyer? (Doesn't matter if you aren't legally married, you still need one regarding being co-home owners...and said injunction since he seems to have zero problem threatening to do child head-f**king things and is even getting you into position, like on holiday, where you're forced to rely on him for feeding the kids and instead, he half-starves them. Etc., etc., etc. He's abusing your children in a Narc-Spath stylee, no doubt about it. Meantime, make an appointment with your GP and let him/her know (assuming they don't already suspect) how your so-called partner has been behaving towards you and the nippers so that it's on your health record (evidence). Show him/her the abusive/threatening/'crying wolf' messages and anything else you have. DEFINITELY TAPE HIM. In fact, get a covert Nannycam. "It probably wasn’t the most sensible thing to say. It came out when I was in tears after the kids asked me if I was ok. " Wrong. It was. And it's not as if you just came out with it, unprovoked and apropos of nothing. Again, if he doesn't like the flavour or quality of chocolate bar that comes out of your machine then he should cease putting his fake coins in your slot. You did exactly the right thing. Bullies rely on their victim's silence. Bullies rely on their victim's silence. Bullies rely on their victim's silence. (Get it drummed-in) Always, always blow the whistle. PS: You have the patience and tolerance of a saint and one heck of a lot of strength and energy. I mean - I despise him (it...the by-now incurable disorder). So what the beep do YOU feel towards him?! He's going down. But not unless and until you start releasing your anger, channelling it, and using it as your energy turbo tank. Normal relationship: anger not good. Fauxlationship: anger good. (Because it's Opposites Land...everything skewed or spun 180 Degrees - think about it....)

Sorry - didn't finish my para: ""He’s said things in the past that his pension will be for us. But that will be under his control."" "I would have replied - Don't think for one minute you'll get any of that money; you'll probably be traded-in for an easier/"better" doormat because, despite you back down every time afterwards, he still fails to stop you from persisting in getting the first punch in (- as he perceives it - via you "criticising" His Highness)."... Inteded to add: But I'm not going to - because your second sentance shows you know what that means he could do and already deep-down know by now that it's not even nearly 'beneath him'. With Financial Abuse, including getting/staying rich by you, your lawyer might well be able to get you your money back. Mine did.

"Even when I’ve been food shopping which isn’t cheap anymore, he’ll ask me how much it was. I tell him it was over £100. His response ‘ well if you buy strawberries what do you expect ‘ I buy the cheapest strawberries available. And that one item doesn’t define the full cost of the shopping. Everything has become more expensive. He doesn’t have a clue as he doesn’t do any food shops." He DOES have a clue. Cease viewing him as a normal bloke in a permanently bad mood, etc. MALIGNANTS KNOW PRECISELY WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND ENJOY ABUSING YOU, THEY ENJOY FAKING A RAGE (THAT THEN TAKES ON A LIFE OF ITS OWN WHEREBY IT THEN CONTROLS THEM), THEY GET OFF ON CONTROLLING AND MANIPULATING YOU. Next comes shocking the bejeezuz out of you with something you never imagined him capable of nor your ever being in the same room with, like hawking and spitting in your face. I'll pick it all apart some more of the next few days (guest is poorly, staying in tomorrow to play nursie).

PS: Is there any way you could, once she's calmed down and ceased 'throwing things at him', arrange a private and confidential meet-up with his ex-wife, get to hear her side and get to compare (as well as take) notes? You and she are co-victims.

PPS: You presumably have a State Pension, though? You know there's a way you can top it up? Don't worry about your pension, however, because, thanks to a worrying decline amongst the 20-and-upwards, there are great deals around for late pension-starters There are also Govt-protected ISAs known as Kick-Out Plans (no or too little risk, fast earning - I made 24k out of 11k in 4 years, between 2013 and 2017, albeit, the interest they gave out at that point was 10 then 8%). There's also taking a lodger. Less Council Tax. All sorts. Not least, more energy, more confidence, having become cleverer, etc., whereby things you would never have dared attempt cease to faze you and actually appeal. Know the saying, Better out than in? Applies equally for leaving a Narc fauxlationship. You don't realise how bad it was until you're out and ONLY THEN, your mind lets you drip-drip face it until you have every piece of evidence on your table, take one look, and go, "OHHHH MY SODDING GOD! HOW THE HELL DID I PUT UP WITH/SURVIVE THAT?!".

Evening Soulmate, Hope your guest feels better soon. He’s had substantial savings for a few years now. He’s in a very well paid job earning around 78k a year. He works for an insurance company in the credit control area. I chose to become a self employed domestic cleaner ( lost my first previous job due to covid ) because it was flexible around the kids and also gave me the weekends off. I don’t earn anywhere near what he does. I earn around 17k a year. My second previous job was in an eye care clinic which I really enjoyed. It was full time hours and some weekend work. After about two months of working there in 2020 when Covid was at its worst, the clinic started to get more busy. Sometimes we may run over finish time and he would get annoyed because I’m not back in time so he can pick up his daughter. This couldn’t be helped because of working in that type of industry in healthcare. I said to him there’s nothing stopping you picking her up as he could have taken the boys with him. But he seemed so reluctant to do that. It started making me feel so anxious at work because if I was a tiny bit late he wouldn’t be happy. I really didn’t feel he was supporting my job and a chance to make a career from it. I would text to say I’m running late and I would be bombarded with texts. I’ve had to support his high demanding job which he works long hours which includes working at home in the evenings, but it didn’t feel reciprocated. I ended up losing the job as they could see I wasn’t quite good enough due to my emotional/anxious situation. I couldn’t afford to mess up that job as I was dealing with patients vision and needing to take accurate information. I’ve always felt anxious, walking on eggshells, nervous around him to the point if he walks into the same room as me my heart starts pounding. I have been to the doctor about how he is treating me and they could see it wasn’t healthy and controlling. This was early this year after things were really bad at Xmas. I’ve got to a point where I don’t even know what I feel for him anymore. Sometimes I look at him and all I see is an ugly person inside. There’s just something about the look in his eyes that give me uneasy vibes. We’ve not been sleeping in the same bed since the argument about me feeling lonely. I’m someone who always gives people a second chance in life, but I feel I’ve done that far too many times for him. Always giving him the benefit of the doubt. But to my own cost. Going back to when I spoke to his daughter saying her dad isn’t a very nice man. He said I should have just said I was upset. I ended up saying sorry. He said that the text from his ex wife was the tipping point to why his daughter isn’t coming back. The ex wife said ‘why would she say that to an 11 year old?’ I have no idea what he said to her in response to that. I don’t know if I can approach the ex wife. She can be hot headed. But she’s definitely doing the right thing by keeping her daughter away from here. I really don’t know how I find the strength at times. I’ve always been very patient which is something that many people have complimented me on. Most of my working life has been in retail with the public which I love. I enjoy helping people so much and even in my current job cleaning it’s very satisfying. My two boys are the main drive that keeps me going. They need their mum. I do feel guilty a lot because I feel I’ve let them down by getting into this relationship which has been too toxic.

He also showed me the text from the suicide support worker. There was a conversation saying he sent a text to me by mistake. But I feel unconvinced by it. He still could have sent that text to me and made it out to be a mistake to the support worker. I just find it hard to believe him anymore. He showed me as we’ve still been arguing, to prove himself.

Hello Fluffy Bunny 1, I'm still here and following your threads. I really do feel for you as I read along. Relationships are beyond hard to maintain. I don't give advice as I struggle myself to know how to handle relationship issues. But, I do care and can relate how this situation must be leaving you drained, confused and feeling down. The responders here are super busy and wonderful with advice. Just thought I'd chat to you briefly so that you know somebody (probably our SM) will be back to advise you shortly. You sound like a sensible and strong person. In the meantime 'HANG IN THERE'.

I'll be with you as soon as I possibly can, Fluff, keep bearing with me, or chat to DD while you're waiting. PS: Yup, he's a giant one, alright. Don't worry - I'm "giant-er". Not least because I'm full-strength healthy, no pathetic 24/7 machinating taking up my cylindry. But you need to CEASE, IMMEDIATELY, discussing my conclusions with him, like the 'mis-sent' text! Say nothing, ask nothing, offer nothing. KEEP YOUR POWDER COMPLETELY DRY. Otherwise, ALL YOU ARE DOING IS TEACHING HIM HOW TO PERFORM HIS NEFARIOUS TRICKS BETTER AND MORE CONVINCINGLY. This is a psychological Cold War. Always is with his type. You're opposing spies. He is your enemy. Sad, but true. So from now on, act like it. Understand? K - Laters...

PS: he's like a carbon copy of two of my most malignant exes all rolled into one. Pathetic, issue-dripping idiots pretending to be genuii while making Forrest Gump (evil version) look good. Google how to do Grey/Gray Rock - and start immediately.

Hi DD, Thank you you for your kind words. It’s so good to know there’s other people out there who understand. Feeling quite exhausted today as he’s been trying to talk to me about what I said to his daughter. Keeps telling me that it wasn’t right to do that. Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts. 😊xxx

Hi Soulmate, Thank you for responding. I know you’re a very busy person. It’s amazing how you make the time to respond to everyone. Just to let you know he’s been telling me tonight what I said to his daughter wasn’t right and I shouldn’t have done it. I’ll wait to hear from you. 😊xx

"Just to let you know he’s been telling me tonight what I said to his daughter wasn’t right and I shouldn’t have done it. " Oh, god, just gimmie the gun. Oh, god...I so want to punch his lights out for you (emphasis on want) (...nah, actually - I actually do!). Is he still? I imagine so. Advice: Say: (*weary little sigh*) "Yes,...I know." (full-stop but elongate the "ohhhhh") (and then find an excuse to quickly exit the room or change the subject...act your socks off - "Aaargh - SPIDER!!!") (it is imperative to lie to the pathological liar, even if normally it goes right against your grain; this is Jungle Self-Defence Law.) Secretly, *in your head*, it's - WHAT do you know? Answer: you know his warped opinion already (big fat ego-equalising raspberry soundtrack in your head) (Seriously...you need to start building up your mind muscles). The above is: Grey Rock! Have you googled and read up on it yet?

"I do feel guilty a lot because I feel I’ve let them down by getting into this relationship which has been too toxic." That's not important. What's important, is their getting to see you basically go "UGH....I RRRRREJECT YOU, you nasty little man, ew - Jeeves, please remove him". With pride and dignity. But even if you do it with a Frying-Pan: JUST SEEING YOU ENACTING THIS: "NO! ENOUGH! I AND MY LITTLE FAMILY DO NOT DESERVE DAILY, CHEAP, DAYTIME SOAP KIND OF CRAP LIKE THIS!" And then they'll be fine because they'll have learned the HEALTHUEST lesson there is (especially the way societies are going), which is: That one should always give 'marriage'/Marriage a good go, because on a normal-healthy your love, support, effort, belief, endurance, etc., all helps...works, so it's the right thing to do. If doing that makes no difference or, worse, doesn't stop the still continuing downward spiral - nuh-uh.... Either this model doesn't work right, has no business trying to be anyone's relationship partner, or will work again ONE day, but not on the innocent partner's timeline, sadly... so it's, get out, whichever....save the wee bairn's brains! They'll be men soon enough, don't you worry. Far nicer ones than him. So...in summary, as per the quote by wossherface (I'm so crap with names): "This thing called Failure... It's not the falling down, it's the STAYING down". (Eh?) (EH?) Can you appreciate you'll need to re-tune into nuances now, having lived with a Black & White merchant-banker? (What?) (hahaha)

"It’s amazing how you make the time to respond to everyone." Yuuuuh. I'm not coping very well, though. I'm not even supposed to be as frequent a poster as this - this is voluntary, not my day-job. I mean, sometimes I haven't got much on, but, here in Spain, you have just too little control over when things will happen...it's always out-of-the-blue after having been made to wait for too long, whereby you're not prepared for it. AND THE HEAT. It's still hot and sweaty in the day, just getting cooler earlier...although not today...think we've got another wave coming.... Plus, this is still a forum so it shouldn't just be people waiting around for me, unresponded to; your good self and all the other thread owners are supposed to feel free to talk to one another, swap notes, all of that, or even just post a quick one-off - the bonus being not just helpful to my ability to be efficient but an a-ma-aaaazzing! self-esteem pumper-upper - in record time. You need to feel helpful and NEEDED - and not isolated. Okaysies? Don't have to but that's both my advice and BESEECHMENT, A-HAAARRGH, HEEELP MEEEE!! LOL (but seriously) (pretty-please with bells on)...

You REALLY have amazing patience, though. I thought I was good! However...I think it's getting more energy than your other adult coping tools and muscles, like, Self-Asserting, specifically, Evading. Patience is still the one most, even adults find hard to achieve, however, so - now that you know there's light at the end of the tunnel because you plan to escape - I think you can release the patience pedal somewhat and put your (other) (haha) foot down more with the "floppy on the supermarket floor"/Grey Rock side of things in order to pump that Self-Assertiveness...-Defence muscle. In your head, take the right Royal piss. Be as childish as you like, e.g., "I know you are but what am Iiii-ii-iii?" or just plain - 'Oh eff-off, "Miserable Chuckie"'. And imagine him constipated on the loo. (It's what he is anyway, but in the brain - and permanently.) (Basically, he's mentally a little sh*t because he can't do a psycho-emotional sh*t....((funny, the perfect symmetry sometimes, innit, Herr Einstein))... Afore I forget: Don't let "The Ending" or "The Great Unknown" intimidate or sway you in any way. It's just an illusion, anyway ("ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh...ahh-ah!"). But what isn't, is this: an innocent, fully-working man whom is healthy thus genuinely loves you will not let you exile him out of your life, thus you out of his, without a full and proper trial...and not a Mickey-Mouse one, either. Okie-dokie? ...but will 'insist' respectfully, gently...using grown-up reasoning and deferential, remoreseful, humble approach that has that characteristic vibration of Truth to it (the one you recogise when it happens because you RELAX and feel GREAT again but KNACKERED). And he will want to keep the prodding to a minimum so as not to unbalance/push you in the wrong direction. IOW, at such a 'heart-threatening' Crunch Time, a grown-up will INSTANTLY step up even higher than ever - on tiptoes if their future happiness depends on it! - to their MOST MATURE SELF...will go ultra cautiously and sensitively... not, WHAAAH, GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD (*looks through fingers to see if you're watching*)..... I.e. Water versus Fat on the fire. Normal-Healthy, knows to appeal and persuade, not push-push-push (or SHOVE!). Narc-Spath does everything by force and always goes too far/overshoots.....and lacks any patience (unless he already has a lilpad ready to jump to). Also remember it's NOT GOOD for you guys to be around someone even just ACTING depressed and suicidal (albeit, with him, when it suits)...but were he (somehow) genuine, treating this like he still could be. So a depressed man SHOULD be quarantined from kids, AND their partner if it's "making them" abusive. So - Win/Win/Win/Win/WIN. You're safe to be able to emotionally do this. Keep getting used to it because, I hate to say it but, given that it's already featuring physical aggression and injury, the chances are he could become violent towards himseslf or you, which is why this needs careful planning. I see I still need to paste in links, and explain things, etc., so I'll include the link to the expert-prescribed and -agreed, 'Leaving a Sociopath Safely' safety-plan. It'll have to be tomorrow now, though. But I've not got too much on so - by evening very latest (again). PS: tell him - in your head - I said: No, "Miserable Chuckie", that was you. Because you're a malignant Narc who sets off an explosion then complains that your loved-one did the only sensible thing fled the building. Or say - "Oh, no - look what you made me make you make me make you make me do-bee-dooo. (But not after 10 pints.) With any luck, it'll tie his little jello in knots for 5 mins while you skidaddle again. Have fun with it! God damnnit! Hahaha.

Good evening Soulmate/DD and any others who have had narcissistic relationships that would like to share their thoughts/advice Lovely to hear from you. I tried the grey rock method last week and it didn’t go well. I told him I was going to watch tv and then head to bed. He asked if I wanted to watch tv with him, but that there’s no right or wrong answer. I offered to watch tv with him and he said again it’s up to if you want some time to yourself. I offered again, but he said please do what you want to. So I made a decision and said I’ll watch tv on my own. As I was about to leave the room I saw him shake his head( he was facing away from me) which I knew was disappointment. I asked is everything ok, you’re shaking your head. I clearly made the wrong choice in his eyes. He said I thought you might at least want to sit with me. I felt tricked in some way because my answer shouldn’t have been a problem if there was no right or wrong answer. It caused an argument, so I went upstairs to watch tv. I’m then bombarded with texts saying he’s all alone and on his own all day. I said ‘ I hear what you’re saying ‘ and ‘ I acknowledge what you’re saying ‘ and that didn’t go well. His response ‘ WOW!! Shutting me down ‘ He accused me of gaslighting him because I chose not to engage with any further conversation. He then came storming up the stairs to have a go at me. I asked him so many times to leave me alone. I could see the anger in his eyes because he didn’t get what he wanted. He then started to cry and was stating about ‘is this how you treat someone with depression’. ‘You have no empathy’ He eventually went, but it left me feeling exhausted. Thank you for giving up your time. Please don’t feel you have to respond immediately. I understand life is busy and you’re such a good person for volunteering. Do I carry on through this thread to talk to others or is there another way? Thank you Soulmate Xx😊

Hi again Fluffy Bunny, Just wanted to let you know that I still care and I read/follow your posts. Narcissists are very intriguing people aren't they? Hope things will be brighter for you soon. You're in great hands with Soulmate. I hope SM feels better soon. Such a unique individual. Hang in there Fluffy!

Hi DD, Thank you for getting in touch. That’s really thoughtful. I hope you’re well. Was it this difficult when you experienced narcissistic behaviour?? How did you deal with it?

Hi Fluffy Bunny, I am surrounded by a Family of Narcissistic types and that is the god awful truth. Yes...it is majorly difficult. I struggle daily. I've found reading the links SM has sent me over time has been relatable (which is comforting to know others are experiencing it also) and those links have given me some helpful tips which I've managed to implement a few times. I will admit that I don't have time to read it all. Wish I did. Also will admit that I tend to fall back into old habits of letting it go when I should address what the Narc is saying to my face. Mostly because I'm too tired and fear escalating them. I walk away. But I've long since realised that the message I give them when I walk away is detrimental to my desired outcome. It makes the Narc think they've won that imagined battle going on their own head and depressingly gives them more power. Trying to be strong 24/7 and ready for the right comeback is not easy. I stuff up often. What the articles don't delve into is how you the victim are tormented on the inside. Because you actually 'love' the person who is torturing you. I find it near impossible to push down that feeling of I'm hurting them with the clever quip responses that stop them in their tracks. You see the hurt shine in their eyes (and some confusion) like a mirror reflecting back at you. Then you feel an ache and say to yourself (I don't want to hurt you but you are repeatedly hurting me). You say to yourself (I don't want to lose you or leave you). The VICTIM is TORN! Nothing online advice wise ever tells you how to deal with that aspect. Example I have COMPLETELY IN TOTALITY estranged myself from my Sister. I know this is hurting her and it doesn't sit comfortably with my conscience. How do I know this? Other relatives keep telling me to 'stop my behaviour towards her'. She's told EVERYBODY she is the victim of cruel me. It is so hard because I only walked away to 'save my sanity from her treatment'. I also know she is a softie inside. Mush. Damaged from our childhood. That instinct to be there to catch her when she falls apart (which is my Sisters case is OFTEN) is really hard to combat. The longest I've ever estranged from her was 18 months. It very nearly killed me as I was riddled with guilt and things everywhere reminded me of her (songs on the radio, items I'd see in the shops and think she'd like that). I caved again! I went back. I took all the blame on my shoulders. It appears to have 'empowered' her further into thinking she can treat me however she likes. Her quote 'YOU'LL COME CRAWLING BACK AGAIN JUST LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO LOSER'. This time (its only been about a month) I simply can't forgive nor forget. In my weak moments I go and read some of her past abusive PM's and Emails. This gives me the strength to continue my estrangement. It is actually best for both our sakes in the long run. Sorry I do go on so. SM is I'm a good venter. That is a nice way to say I talk too much. I fear it comes across 'selfish' and I don't mean to be. I am just very down and lonely. I'm broken on the inside. So Fluffy Bunny I do know what you're going through and how it hurts. Strange Strong! We can do it! xo

Eyup DD, I'm still up-and-down but improving steadily. (Bad enough Life was always a rollercoaster without the bleedin' viruses joining in!) FYI (in line with unique), missus, I don't do backhanded compliments. Venting and Crying are highly therapeutic. Vent away! Torn is short for Cognitive Dissonance (and include, Confirmation Bias). Remember the Natalie Imbruglia song? Wouldn't have worked, with - "...nothing's right, I'm CognitivelyDissonaned.... Haha. PS: You're not 'going on' - what you know is highly pertinent. You should get into comparing details and your Top 10 Chart of things they say, do, refuse to do, how they give with one hand while taking with the other, never compliment you except maybe out-of-doors (in front of "their public/critics"), the most ridiculous excuses, taking of liberties, illogics, playing dumb, playing innocent, (hiding your stuff?), whoops-forgetting to pass on that important information.......all the 'joys' of living with a malignant. Tip for next time: "Do tell me if I'm going on a bit, won't you". Fluff is obviously enjoying your visits, anyway - aren't you Fluffster. (Just Gangsta-ing you up a bit, LOL) Tip for both of you, in fact: don't tell people what they're thinking. That's Narc Priming territory, that is...brainwashing via constant repetition (BAD INFLUENCE) aka Sliming aka Narc Fleas (or if it's VERY bad - BPD(eeeeeeeee). _________________________ 'The Fluff', ;D "Good evening Soulmate/DD and any others who have had narcissistic relationships that would like to share their thoughts/advice" I know...Where the bloody hell is everybody these days? Is everyone having to do two jobs or something? Or too knackered from malnutrition to forum-it of an evening? I'm thinking about whether I should do a read-only post, to basically say, OY, YOU LOT - TALK TO AMONGST YOURSELF INSTEAD OF SITTING THERE, SCHTUM; THIS AIN'T A MORGUE, PEOPLE! It's having time, though, isn't it. Maybe I'll keep this thread bumped-up at the top so that newbies can see you two chatting away and following suit? ***** Or DD, Maybe you'd like to be the Receptionist and Welcoming Committee? Don't start yet, though, we'd need to agree a loose script, but - does that appeal in theory? RsVP so I know you read this? ***** "I tried the grey rock method last week and it didn’t go well." That's because Grey Rock is a euphemisms for not engaging, whereas, you kept engaging - to wit (asterisks)... 1. *I told him I was going to watch tv and then head to bed. 'Off to bed now - night!' aaand you're gone! And if that doesn't work, just go up to bed and whoops-fall asleep with your book on your chest the minute he comes up to say goodnight (see what's what, take your temperature, start a row). Dribble if you want to (hahaha) (- fun with it) or snore like a pig. Why WOULD you want to sit and walk telly with your emotional rapist?!?! Hello-hello-HELLO? You need to toughen up a bit or admit you're not quite ready and have more studying-up to do. WE DO NOT REWARD BAD BEHAVIOUR. BUT WE (WE - not them!) WILL PRESS THE RE-SET BUTTON ONCE YOU HAVE ATONED (VERBAL SORRY + SORRY Action, and possibly Compensation). He hadn't, and so, it's....straight to bed! (, DIDN'T SAY Zebedee). (Forty-Seven. Tssssssss! Do-a-what-a?) ****************** PS: We haven't nicknamed the (bad) puppy yet. Can you think of any....preferably that encapsulate a piss-take and is based on a kids' cartoon character (cos that's about the size of him)? .....like.... Orrrr....let me think.... Spike The 'Bull' Dog Gruesomity-Sam Wiley Cut-Throatie Speed-dial Gonzalez ...but that's because I'm into Warner Bros. The only other cartoon type I liked was that kid's version of Bilko, called Top Cat - ooh!... Top Prat! (...the indis-puude-able, Top-Prat!...the indefensible, blee-der ooof-the gaaang...He's the dross, he's the zit, he's the championsh*t-Hee's the most! tip!-top! - daddle-a-da! - Top Prat!) ...or keep it general...like... Hang-Man (haha...oops...too much?) Feel free to make up your own. Have fun. :) ******************** Back to your markings... 2. "He asked if I wanted to watch tv with him, but that there’s no right or wrong answer." How could any answer be wrong, anyway? 3. "I offered to watch tv with him" Why? He's been horrid to you - why would you want to sit and watch telly like a normal couple and as if he hadn't? Have I missed something? Has he since given you an apology? Has he told you to forgot all about the stupid things he said, blaming you for being the state he had lathered you into and no-one else? Come on, missus. You know I know you can't stand him any more. And that you only go mushy and feel love when you bring to mind MEMOORIES of him....FORMER him.... So - well, then... Porquoi? 4. Question: How much resemblance out of 10 (being the most) does he bear nowadays to the man you met and started dating? And when was the last time you got to spend a whole day or more with 'old him'? 5. "(I offered to watch tv with him) and he said again it’s up to (you) if you want some time to yourself. I offered again, but he said please do what you want to. So I made a decision and said I’ll watch tv on my own." Translation: You: Just baked cookies - want one (Mr Rapist)? Him: Are you sure? You: Yes. (That's why I'm offering, idiot. Why are you making a mountain out of this, it's a simple question, grr!) Him: Are you SURE-sure? You: Eff-off then if you're going to be like that. That's, Engaging. Try this one: You say, 'Just popping upstairs - need anything?' or better yet, nothing at all, just quietly go up. And then from your room, door ajar, with your hand on the door-handle (but only once you're sure you've used the bathroom and have everything you need), you call 'Night then, sleep well!' - CLICK, goes your door...or you say nothing at all and just close it quietly. Touch of Grey Rock, if that fails, full Grey Rock. In the morning, if he starts on about it, you just say, I knowwww, I was soooo tiii-yerr-ed last night... And that's it. You're GOING to get resistance. Until such time as you've kept it going consistently enough it's become the new norm. Pressing the buttons that hurt you doesn't work any more, only the ones that PLEASE you get any emotional engagement - dem's da roolz. So that's why you need to toughen up a bit, cease behaving like he's made up for his crimes. Try that. But I'll continue, see what else I spot... "As I was about to leave the room I saw him shake his head( he was facing away from me) which I knew was disappointment." Not on a Narc, it isn't. It's self-pity mixed with contempt but with his Droopy The Dawg mask on. Note he didn't hide his response - did the opposite? It was MEANT for you to see and meant to make you fall back on your habitual perception of him as Bloke Having Bad Groundhog Day, and Wickle Bubbie's all disappointed. Next time, fail to notice. He either uses his big boy words or YOU DON'T HEAR HIM. You are DEAF to anything under-the-table. Top of the table or nothing. But achieved in a 'gosh where's me brain today' type of way, mixed (if he makes you have to talk) with, party bore (then took A21 to Sainsbury's and they had discounts on drone-drone...). Start slobbing around in your tracksuit like you can't be arsed or haven't the energy. No action or reaction from you = not enough oxygen generated for HIM (his tank has a hole in it, remember?) YOU, HIS SECRET SUPPLY OF OXYGEN, ARE DEFLATING!- REPLACEMENT AIR-SUPPLY, QUICK, QUICK, QUICK! He'll go back in his study and you can watch telly in the sitting-room if you like. Why shouldn't you get the perks when YOU haven't done ANYTHING wrong. That...is justice. Petty, but, you know what they say about pennies? Let's see how many you can steal back before you skiddaddle, shall we? This is about you getting used to your varous swords and shields...limbering-up... Because, don't think he wouldn't be the one stealing and using those, otherwise. Also, if he pulls his trump card - I feel suicidal again, whaaah - ask him, all sympathetic and caringly, 'Oh, dear, what are you going to do?'. And that's it. (This sort of thing is how to get him to leave YOU. Or leave you alone until YOU'RE ready. It's YOUR right and prerogative. For being the wronged party.) 6- "I asked is everything ok, you’re shaking your head." ((Not hard ENOUGH, pal!)) "I clearly made the wrong choice in his eyes." Who cares? He's not even fit to judge whether someone's wearing odd shoes! Why did you care if he was shaking his head? ****** Stop Press: Do you realise you're interacting with and pandering to him in the exact same way as if he really were your Kevin The Teenager? Unconditional Love exists only from parent to child (and, once they're elderly and frail - vice-versa). It can BECOME unconditional, with the passing of the years and consistently good attitudes and behaviour far more than not. ****** 7. "He said I thought you might at least want to sit with me. I felt tricked" THERE YOU GO. But - Edit: I could feel he'd tricked me. (Hear the difference? Even leaving aside the whiff of self-blaming (I felt), you're being passive but in the wrong directions, this is about redirecting it.) However, if what you meant was, I realised I'd been tricked - please be that pedantic from now on because we need to re-train your brain back to clarity and the more exact and pedantic, the better (train to high-jump 8ft in order to reach 7ft under duress of competitions). Next time you feel tricked, say, 'Hang on - was that the washing-machine stopping?!' to buy yourself thinking time. 8. "(felt tricked) in some way because my answer shouldn’t have been a problem if there was no right or wrong answer." Yes, he had tricked you. How PETTY. Isn't he PATHETIC. He'd TOYED with you (to pump his slow-punctured ego up and because he was bored and because he's contemptuous and unfeeling of you). He did NOT want you to sit with him but rather than 'let you off', he decided to Gaslight you (normally deny your experience but, this case, withhold it)...be "difficult"... because it gives him a kick (cos he's sick) (and ick). But never mind, not bad for a first attempt. And now you have the above example. :) But that, I'm afraid, is what happens when you haven't studied into any counter-tactic(s) enough, got it thoroughly through your skull, before attepting the practical. IF IT'S NOT AN ENTHUSIASTIC YES, IT'S A NO. As for you: Ask for nothing, Offer nothing Try this: Picture him as the creepy boy at school, at the same disco as you, and you've got to be friendly enough to him for school-diplomacy's sake whilst giving him a wide berth, evading, avoiding and dodging him. 'Yeah, this is a good track - ooh, there's Beverley - back in a tick!'. And if you find it hard - pick the revolting habit of his that turns your stomach the most and picture him doing it. Alternatively, it's this - *Chirpy* Grey Rock aka Willow The Wisp On Acid: Swerving into the doorway: Heya! Want I sit watch telly with you?" "...You sure?" "Oh! Hint taken!-never-mind-I'm-tired-anyway-night-night!", swerve back out of the room and bound up the stairs, going, 'daah-dee-daah-daaah, tum-tee-tummm' up the stairs and straight into the bathroom. Like he's Pepe Le Pew and you're the cat....false smile and PER-CHOO!, you're off again ("the washing, the dishwasher!..."). Or you can just look at him sideways, give a Huh? grin and say, 'AaaaaaaaaalRIGHTY, then!' (per-choo!). Or why not, the minute he's settled into his programme, come noisily into the room with the vacuum-cleaner, yelling a chirpy - 'FEET UP!', and when he starts barking at you, cup your ear, going, "Whaaaa'??? Can`t hear ya - wait a minute!" and keep hoovering. There is soooo much you can do; you can get really creative with it. But you've got to read up on it - including examples of it (try the comments sections below each website article) enough times it becomes your ATTITUDE. And then you won't have to think...it'll come naturally. But let's continue through the remainder of the event (evilent)... 9. "It caused an argument, so I went upstairs to watch tv." (TICK!) 10. I’m then bombarded with texts saying he’s all alone and on his own all day." FYI this is him trying to see if he can get his puppet to come back for Seconds. Next time: don't answer. You can't...you're asleep (snoring and dribbling, phone off on the bedside table)...argument knackered you out, innitzzz.... (so he'd better not do THAT again late at night, eh). "I said ‘ I hear what you’re saying ‘ and ‘ I acknowledge what you’re saying ‘ and that didn’t go well His response ‘ WOW!! Shutting me down ‘" ((WOWWW...and he din't do NUFFINK to deserve it...and also - who do you think you are, slave?!...all just said in a poor little picked-on innocent lambie-pie way)) "He accused me of gaslighting him because I chose not to engage with any further conversation." EH? Then he doesn't know the definition of Gaslighting. (DON'T CORRECT HIM, don't teach him a THING.) (PS can he get into your History?) 11. "He then came storming up the stairs to have a go at me." STORMING? That's what physically aggressive fathers tend to do. Typical! Kevin The Teenager in grown-up suit is a spoiled little despot, so incredibly deluded (tick!) that he thinks he's your DAD (which is HIS dad - toward his mum - i.e. domineering bully). Kevin's tears appeased Dada though...he spoiled little Kevin. So he's a despot when it suits him and Master Boo-Hoo when it doesn't or he wants to be furtive. Google Narcissist Golden Child Son. Youngest, is he? 12. "I asked him so many times to leave me alone." Why no lock and key on your bedroom door? Or door wedge on your side? Why no firmly walking off, going for a drive? Why no jammed-in earplugs or music headphones? Why no looking at him wearily and just gently sighing, not replying? What are you scared is going to happen? Another Chinese Burn? 13. "I could see the anger in his eyes because he didn’t get what he wanted." THERE YOU GO. And that was why the 'storming', innit. To make you brace/freeze up and instantly and lose 15 iQ points. ...Which he quickly covered up wiiiiiiith/switched it intooooooo... "He then started to cry and was stating about ‘is this how you treat someone with depression’. ‘You have no empathy’ ((No, it's how I treat a nasty a-hole who *pretends he has Depression in order to present as Tiny Tim and thereby DISARM ME cos otherwise I'd have to be a COW to defend myself or counter-attack against Tiny Timsie-wimsie. And, nope - no empathy for you - well done! Next question?)) (*did you google Martha Stout - The Pity Play yet? Please do?) "He eventually went, but it left me feeling exhausted." AIM,...FIRE,...BULLSEYE! To knock some more stuffing out of you so that you (think teddybear) cannot stand up for yourself - probably for the next day if they pick a fight at night. Always late at night and through the night, usually. Why were you left exhausted? What was it you said in response? What was it he said that managed to reel you in? How many hours was it in the end, from point of your initial, generous question? ******* Arms cache, item 2: He prefers Emotional Blackmail to Overt Aggression. Hence he chose a victim who'd never learnt to fight physically nor stepped over the taboo-line to verbal and physical aggression (as defense). 13. True? 14. Did you ever have - or come close to - a fisty-cuffs at school with another pupil? PS: "Do I carry on through this thread to talk to others or is there another way? No, you go on theirs and post.

Definitely watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-J590kIfU Grey Rock - how to Enhanced Grey Rock, called, Firewalling "4 Ways to Protect Yourself from Narcissists" "...The best piece of firewall protection - do you know what it is? It's, to *know what it is*...It's to *know* what 'this personality' is all about, what it looks like, to identify the Red Flags, understanding the justifications they make for their behaviour, and how they *twost* the truth to their benefit, and understand the *other* "breeches" in the system... ...You need to *understand* how Narcissistic people use *victimhood* to play upon your sympathies, and your empathy. Then there is radical Acceptance...that it *doesn't change*, these patterns don't change...so you can *trim down* and *let go* of all this Benefit Of The Doubt stuff..or the hope that somehow, it would get better this next time... Malware is Malware... ...The Deep Technique..... don't Defend, don't Engage don't Explain, and don't Personalise (and then you can't/won't Internalise)"

Scuse typos........e.g. Dissonaned?? Dissonanced! And - twist, not twost (haha..."Ohhh, let's twost 'n sh*t.., like we-did last summer, ooooh, let's twost again, like we did least yar!")

Triangulation - as promised... ...This case, with his therapist, probably pretend. If not pretend - now proven uncooperative with his aims and M.O., hence Devalued (she patronises me) ((everyone patronises you, you little beep - because you *play dumb and innocent* with everyone!)) and now Discarded (like a used tissue) as he thinks up a different ploy (keep watching and reporting on that space)... ____________________________________________________________________________________ https://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2019/10/triangulation-and-narcissism#1 "Triangulation: The Narcissists Best Play Within the vast catalogue of toxic behavior, triangulation is amongst the most well-known. It is very common, especially among narcissistically inclined individuals, and can be overt, or insidious, and many people dont even realize they have been triangulated until it is too late. Indeed, those who regularly manipulate others will resort to triangulation because it is an easy, low cost but high yield behavior. Although well known in unhealthy and toxic family dynamics, its not just limited to families. Triangulation can occur in any relationship including friendships, romantic relationships, and in the work place. But what is triangulation, exactly? Why it is it such a common manipulation tactic? And how can you recognize it? Triangulation is when a toxic or manipulative person, often a person with strong narcissistic traits, brings a third person into their relationship in order to remain in control. (TICK!) There will be limited or no communication between the two triangulated individuals (TICK!) except through the manipulator. (TICK!) It may appear in different forms, but all are about divide and conquer, or playing people against each other. (In his case - BOTH)

PS: "'YOU'LL COME CRAWLING BACK AGAIN JUST LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO LOSER'." Who does she think she's talking to! Can't she hear herself? What a way to talk to your own sister! What does she MEAN, 'crawling' back? What is that - wishful thinking? If you listen carefully enough, you can just HEAR the mixture between CONTEMPT and NEEDINESS talking. In fact, uncannily enough, it aligns with the psych industry phrase for Borderlies: "I hate you!/Don't leave me!". (Mine's shorter: "F*ck-off-NO-DON'T!") IN TER RES STINK! We'll plonk this over on your thread (in a tick). Assuming this was over the phone, I'd have replied - I haven't lost anything - I've (trigger-word!!!) abandoned something. I mean someone. Actually, no I don't (click!). ...although, more truthfully I'd have just said a really long, loud - UUUUUUUUUUGH! (...*thinks*: I should start a phone service.... Yes, hello, this is Squish-a-Narc...Tracey down the road hired me to tell you - She doesn't want to go out with you any more..you're nasty...and plus you smell...You're welcome, goodbye.)

Oh - PS: Don't ever tell him this (don't tell him *anything* any more!), but "He accused me of gaslighting him because I chose not to engage with any further conversation." That's called Stonewalling (google).

And a missing chunk from the above pasted-in psychtoday article on Triangulation: "You can recognize triangulation by recognizing its forms. If a parent refuses to acknowledge their childrens real personality and individualism, and their siblings are treated vastly different and are discouraged from communicating with one another except through the parent, then this is triangulation. ***** If your current or former romantic partner or friend uses another to create hostility, drama, or to coerce you into things and feelings you wouldnt otherwise do or feel, then this is triangulation. ***** If someone brings you into their romantic relationship or friendship, but refuses to directly confront the person that they have an issue with, then this is triangulation. Healthy communication is about openness and authenticity, and resolving conflicts rather than creating them. And the most effective way of dealing with these situations is to take a step back and objectively evaluate what is really happening, and then acting accordingly."

PPS: "...This case, with his therapist, probably pretend. If not pretend - now proven uncooperative with his aims and M.O., hence Devalued (she patronises me) ((everyone patronises you, you little beep - because you *play dumb and innocent* with everyone!)) and now Discarded (like a used tissue)" I'm thinking this "therapist" was nothing of the sort, just a romantic prospect (Primary to replace you, or Secondary to secretly add on), who'd had therapy a couple of times to know enough, or fancied herself as capable of COUNSELLING AN (ALLEGED) SUICIDAL (no arrogance there, then). I mean, did you SEE her text or email (WHICH?) saying pulling-out prematurely (hah, if only!) wasn't a good idea? What medication is he on? Have you ever seen his doctor's prescription or cointerfoil and/or till receipt from the chemist? Do you see him take it? Daily? How many years has he been on it? How long did it take him to see his GP about his depression? But think about it: if he has a therapist (or gets a new one) and is Not To Be Disturbed while he's emailing with her, you're not going to suspect he's cruising, are you. Additionally, the woman he gets to use is threatenING but isn't A threat - if you see what I'm saying? That's quite a clever, safe, middle-ground type of balancing act. Fine-tuning. And (damnit!) that's too sophisticated and manually delicate...dextrous for a clumsy Spath. Plus, he REALLY does over-use the Pity Ploy, but that could be because he was the youngest - and son - of a Dominator of a father....treating people like dad did but arming himself with his mum's disarming (natural or tactic) of boo-hooing. From anger straight into self-pitying... (Why...did he storm in, only to see Blue Murder on your face? Or, able to tell he'd gone too far again?) Remember, N-Spaths/Narcopaths are more this (hence rely on more potent love-bombing): Ow, don't kiss so hard / Well, I won't kiss you AT ALL, then! Question: what does he do if you cry¿ Does he spit contemptuous disdain at you or immediately (if only temporarily) fold? Or other?

(Bump!) ...and another thing: 2. "He asked if I wanted to watch tv with him, but that there’s no right or wrong answer." Who says that? Who asks whether or not you want to watch TV with them but that there's no right or wrong answer, like that? What-AH? Fluff, at the time, did that intellectually jar with you and/or make your Spidey Senses tingle?

PS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-J590kIfU Same link as above (Dr Ramani) but - NOTE TIME 19:42 (re waiting to recover your clarity). THEN 19:03 (once you've disengaged) ______________________ I've had time today to do some deeper thinking... 1. "(But I feel unconvinced by it.) He still could have sent that text to me and made it out to be a mistake to the support worker. (I just find it hard to believe him anymore.)" Well deduced, Holmes! Gold Star! (PS: 'Purposely Accidentally') (or where it's subconsciousU/passive-aggressive, 'Accidentally On-Purpose') You're definitely in the zone. You just, as I say, lack enough reading on Grey Rock and Out-Narcing the Narc, is all. Think about it: could have been me who wrote that. Hear it? :) 2- And it aligns with what I've more or less decided he identifies as... I'm suspecting this one, is Malignant Narc-Sociopath/NPD-AsPD, Covert, Cerebral, Co-morbid with Borderline (BPD). Yup! Now it's clicking. I forgot for a mo. about that common co-morbidity of Narc-Sociopaths. Plus, if you're very lucky, Paranoid Personality Disorder to-boot (LOVELY!). Borderlines are known for suicidal idealogy. However, they actually FEEL that way. They mean it. They're the self-harmers. SELF-harmers. Just kicking and flailing, and if you stand too close, you get whacked, and take it personally. (PS: were his hands shaking that time he'd nearly done the deed in the garage? I'm sure you'd have noticed and said so on here if they had, surely?) But I ain't finished... 3. I mean, he arrives at the top of the stairs fuming-mad, but then, like magic!...like his emotions respond instantly to some hidden, internal button-push of his!... he switches from that major emotional state all the way to vulnerable and self-pitying? Therefore... Some vet Coverts that AREN'T 'naturally' Covert-Vulnerable, try to incorporate mimicking Borderline attack type tantrums in place of more recognisable, more conventional N-Spath Narc Rages. A safetynet of an excuse in case they do overshoot, whereupon Depression suddenly becomes an under-diagnosis and he's actually got BPD, doncha know. Now you'd have to be a GIANT cow to leave/break-up ("she left me because I had Borderline and even when I told her, she still left, boo-hoo, innocent-meee"). And after all, if there's a reason for not, not of their control or doing, there's hope! Let's just call it Ace Card to keep up their sleeve. The wolf in sheep's clothing switching to lamb's to stop you actually walking out of the front door for the, presumably, last time. But that storming up the stairs only to burst into tears and play victim, was wholly contrived. Both parts. 4. Question: What more often than not sets him off with the 'suicidal'-ness? Him not getting his way over yours? Or his ex's? Things outside of your relationship? What? 5. YOU have an Ace card too. Well, it's one of mine but you can borrow it, haha... Secretly all packed and ready (boys at school or together at schoolfriend's for tea with strict instructions on only you and no-one else/not him collecting them)...suitcases in the car, some beefy friend or man-with-a-van (SAFETY NOTE!) ALREADY in the driveway, cued to remove any furniture/heavy items of yours (unless you're already seeking that kiddie injuncton to get HIM out?) as well as to have potential physical protection on-hand - you deliver this sort of speech. Quietly insisting he sit down... ******************************* Thanks for the other night. It helped me come to a decision. This is futile. It's run it's course already. We both know it. We both know I don't make you happy, nor my boys, though God knows we've tried. In fact, if anything, it seems we make you the opposite. For all I know, we're what's depressing you. So thank-you very much for the early days, the good times, but I and my boys are leaving you now. I'll call you anon. - but please leave that with me. I'm sad, but it's not like I haven't tried. So I know I *cannot* live with you a second longer and this constant atmosphere is bad for my boys. Maybe this will be the motivation you need to finally seek proper treatment for your condition. I hope so. Take care. ******************************* And you walk out. OR (to be even safer - as well as against attempts to break your will (oh, they do!)), you walk out, having said nothing... as you go, depositing the above in *letter form, on the doormat - which he will walk/run to when he hears it close (make it firm but keep it 'sad'). And - vroom, you're off. (*keeping a couple of print-outs) And now that I've had the urge to type that, I'm thinking I'm *not* just suspecting. I'm thinking you might have got yourself what Sandra M. Brown refers to as "Combo Man" in her book (where dangerous predominantly but not exclusively, means, Emotionally) - "How To Spot A Dangerous Man *Before* You Get Involved. Combo Man is when you recognise traits of your tormentor-torturer in almost every type, or just too many, she names and describes... to wit ((double parentheses mine)): __________________________________________________________________________________________________ https://www.marriage.com/advice/relationship/how-to-spot-a-dangerous-man-before-you-get-involved/ "Categories of dangerous men" (by Syvia Smith - expert blogger/writer) "In her book, Sandra L. Brown presented the concept of categorizing men into subtypes of danger that teaches women effectively how to spot a dangerous man before considering getting involved in a romantic relationship with a man. However, **some questions and criticisms have been put forward to Brown’s categorization of dangerous men. Brown’s conceptualization of danger and categorization of men with toxic traits has been criticized for being too generalized or broad by nature. ((**I don't care...Because I've met and in many cases dated every single type she classified! And 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating', is it not.)) According to Brown, a man is dangerous if he shows signs of pathological and/or personality disorder(s). Brown has also opined that it isn’t worth a woman’s time and energy to consider getting involved with such a man because such individuals never change and will always be dangerous. However, it is up to your judgment to learn and apply what seems right to you and discard what doesn’t match your values... ((which you will never have the clarity of mind for discerning (objective judgement or fear/bias?) until such time as you've been No Contact for a good few months, pref. minimum 6, to get your Critical Thinking back - AND to trust it!)) However, it is essential to remember that some of the traits of a dangerous man involve physically, verbally, sexually, financially, and emotionally abusing his partner. Please remember that domestic violence is a heinous crime. The 8 main types of dangerous men Let’s now look at the types of dangerous men, as outlined by Brown. Learning about these types of dangerous individuals is imperative to learning how to spot a dangerous man. The types (as per Brown) are: 1. The permanent clinger These are the type of men who often label themselves as victims. Such individuals are highly needy. Therefore, they are clingy when in a romantic relationship. Being with such individuals can be highly draining (both mentally and physically) as the concept of boundaries or personal time and space is non-existent with such partners. 2. The mentally ill man Irrespective of functioning, such individuals have diagnosed or identifiable mental illnesses. It may just be a singular mental illness or multiple illnesses. The main emphasis is on those individuals with personality disorders by mental illness. 3. The addict This category of signs of a dangerous man is a catch-all one. Men with substance abuse or addiction issues are dangerous when in relationships. Addictions include hard drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, pornography, food, sex, and so on. 4. The parental seeker This is another unique type of clingy man. Such men usually come off as extremely immature and wish to be forgiven for unacceptable behaviors or actions. Such men are considered dangerous because being in a romantic relationship or marriage with such a man can be mentally draining and physically draining. Such men expect their partners to care for them as their children. 5. The emotionally unavailable Another one of the types that you have to keep in mind when it comes to learning how to spot a dangerous man red flags is the emotionally unavailable type. Such men don’t want to engage in any emotional intimacy. There is a high possibility that such emotionally unavailable men are already in another romantic relationship. 6. The hidden life man Such a man withholds fundamental information pertinent to their romantic relationship. This includes disease, criminal history, children, marriage, addiction, etc. 7. The violent/abusive man Such a type may frequently engage in abusive behavior, verbal, financial, emotional, physical, or even sexual (includes non-consensual sex). ((or, earlier in the fauxlationship - styles/positions/venues, etc., that are more coerced than consensual. But if you asn m, the entire 'relationship' is non-consensual because if you knew their true nature, no WAY would anyone climb in with them!)) 8. The emotional predator Psychopathic, sociopathic, or emotionally abusive men who frequently seek pleasure from torturing or tormenting women are emotional predators ((I don't know about you, because you know him best, but I see - Clingy/Over-Needy; Abusive (interspersed with violent); Emotional Predator - and said suspected fakery of the mixture of BPD and Chronic Depression. Agree? RsVP?)) ((And, accordingly, he ticks an awful lot of the following, too...)) What makes men dangerous? There are several tell-all signs of danger when it comes to people. When it comes to learning how to tell if someone is dangerous, referring to the categories mentioned above of the dangerous types of individuals is, of course, very helpful. You have to look for the signs of a dangerous relationship or man apart from the categories mentioned above. Some direct signs include abuse of any kind, illegal possession of dangerous objects, and addictive behavior. Unusual personality signs are also great for reference. 10 Signs to identify dangerous men before getting involved Let’s take a deep dive into the 10 key signs for learning how to spot a dangerous man: 1. Controlling behavior Narcissistic individuals tend to exert a lot of controlling behavior. Examples include controlling what you do, what you wear, who you interact with, etc. ((and when and what to eat)) Such controlling individuals tend to isolate their significant others from their friends, family members, etc. ((be it automatically as an effect, or deliberately, or both) 2. The insatiable need for constant praise Validation is something that all individuals require. However, narcissistic individuals have an insatiable desire for praise. This is their way of exerting their power and inflated sense of importance. If a man constantly asks questions along the lines of “I’m amazing, aren’t I?” or “Remind me how you’re fascinated by my presence in your life” and so on, it’s a red flag. 3. Poor behavior with others Another key sign you have to be on the lookout for when it comes to learning how to spot a dangerous man is their behavior with other individuals. This includes waiters, chauffeurs, relatives, employees under him, friends, etc. ((or in the case of an N-Spath - your closest confidantes - and, as in your case, your kids)) Individuals with toxic traits often perceive other people to be inferior to them. They misbehave or treat others disrespectfully without any sign of regret or remorse. 4. Inability to apologize Toxic men also have this noticeable inability to apologize for their mistakes or unacceptable behaviors, words, or actions. They use malicious, mean, or hurtful language ((or behaviour, including inaction)) to offend people and then never apologize for the same. Such men have very low integrity and zero sense of accountability. They hardly ever accept the blame for anything that they do. ((FYI, they don't want to apologise because, bottom-line, they intend to use the deed/tactic - or the vein it belongs in - again. If they do utter the words, either it's because they WON'T re-need that ploy or, they know they intend to find whatever way to take the apology back subtly-verbally, -behavioiurally, or reverse them by pressing the Rewind button, like it never happened, etc. So it's, Inaility To Apologise Sincerely - depending on NPD type. And even then, they'll apologise until the cows come home if it's during Honeymoon/Love-Bombing/Top-Up Bombing.)) 5. The victim card Manipulative or emotionally predatory men are often masters at playing the victim. ((The Narcissistic Sociopath is the best at this, I've found.)) Such individuals can be hazardous because they altogether refuse to accept or believe they are ever at fault. ((Keeping all of this simple at this point: it is NOT healthy, can be mentally/bodily/financially injurous, if you hang out with or get intimate with an emotionally-mentally ill, howevermuch overly nasty person, especially live with one full-time - end of. Google Narcissist Attachment Disorder.)) 6. Insincerity Another sign of a dangerous man is the inability to be sincere or commit. This is especially true for those toxic men who are emotionally unavailable. ((Coverts - neglectful first and foremost, 'bred' from neglect.)) Relationships with such men are like a rollercoaster ride for your emotions. Long-term commitment from such men is nearly impossible. They are highly insincere. Such men likely turn out to be cheaters. 7. Oversensitivity to criticism Emotionally unstable men are also compassionate ((?non-compassionate?)) or react very poorly or aggressively to criticism of any kind. This is due to their lack of adaptive coping mechanisms. ((Or because they truly believe they're above & beyond mortal criticism, of course.)) Such men will have an explosive reaction ((or implosive/cold/covert)) to any opinion of yours that goes against what they stand for. 8. Makes you feel guilty (a lot) Manipulative men are toxic. They are infamous for clouding people’s perceptions about what they believe in. This happens because their go-to plan of action is to be the victim. An easy way to find out if a man is manipulative is to be aware of how often and intensely you experience negative emotions around him. If you feel horrible too often, he may be manipulative. 9. Frequent lying Although catching someone lying can be difficult to detect quickly, if you have caught someone lying incessantly, it may be a sign that he may be dangerous. ((it may be a sign that he may be? LOL... it may be a sign that he's dangerous)) 10. He pushes your buttons Toxic men always try to find ways to intentionally irk the people around them. This especially applies to people that are close to such men. Their goal is to make people feel bad about themselves and raise their sense of self-consciousness. ((while chipping away at your confidence)). ((With N-Spaths there's also stealing, Misappropriating, whoops-breaking (especially during Rages) yours and ONLY your personal property, money, car, rights and privileges, friendships, role, personality quirks and habits including unique-to-you sayings, and Imposing their routines and preferences (e.g. meals) onto yours and your kids...on and on and on...)) What should women focus on? ((Depends on the type of gun, but - just between the eyes is good, LOL)) ((sorry, couldn't resist)) When it comes to learning how to spot a dangerous man, here are a few things that women should consider focusing on: You feel a constant desire for him to go away from your life for good. You begin to dread his texts or phone calls. The constant urge to cry High levels of self-consciousness (in his presence). Uncomfortable feelings about his words, actions, behaviors, presence. You have this strong feeling that the man might be too good to be honest. Feeling distant or isolated from loved ones. Conclusion Now you’re well-aware of how to spot a dangerous man, remember to look out for all the signs mentioned above, and please be careful! It is essential to make sure that you stay away from people who can damage your mental health. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ (Good article!) Anyway, I appreciate it's lengthy (- no actress-bishop quotes, thank-you, haha) so give me your feedback and answer my questions when you get a min? Next comes the Safety Plan, as promised. I'll do that either in a min or tomorrow.

Another PS before I paste in the standard safety plan: "Paranoid Personality Disorder to-boot (LOVELY!)." He ticks this box as well. When you took your son to the restaurant loo on holiday, he wasn't lacking empathy towards your son per se. Your son wasn't even occurring to him. He demanded to know what had taken you so long because he suspected that some bloke (another Narc) had chatted you up and that you'd like it (hence got back 'late'). Said competitor could steal his golden goose (you). Not only do you put up with too much of his daily, very extreme shite, but, the equity (even though he had no outstanding mortgage to deduct) was not enough for him to afford that new-build. He needed your contribution. Use that light to see the truth: Needed to con you he was in-love with you and wanting what comes with that, in order to convince you to buy a house with him. Downside: having to tolerate you when he doesn't even LIKE you, let alone love you (hence can emotionally blackmail and control you using such an unconscionable, heinous, mentally-torturous way as fake suicidal-ness...and it turns out you're a passive-resistant (- because that's the only style open to you) rebel, which just adds to his seething resentment at the fact he NEEDS you, can't present to his public as a man who's on-target in terms of his social standing for his age/stage. He would have had to have bought a less impressive apartment to have afforded Child and Spousal(?) Maintenance. (Your house has 3 bedrooms, yes?) Faking appropriate life-achievement for his age/stage - as a HOUSE-owner, he now presents as FAR more eligible on dating-sites/apps. However, whilst looking for your replacement, and being incapable, as all Narcs are, of being single/alone for 5 seconds, i.e. without a live-in Primary Supplier) - he wants you to stick around. Narcs don't use positive wooing...too much effort and, anyway, they don't have the urge because they don't have the feeling - for you or any normal-healthy (particularly empaths). They show you what they really think of you when they....STORM UP THE STAIRS and then steal your bona fide victim cloak for themselves.... KICK!....boo-hoo, you hurt my foot, you're so cruel! In that kind of situation, you storm up the stairs before beating someone up, don't you. He wanted to beat you up. Okay? Whether it's automatic, now, for him to 'growl loudly and menacingly', only to, illogically/jarringly, burst into tears due to the fact it's how he got spoilt-baby results in his family/peers of origin, which got over-used as his "go-to", became an ingrained habit, then an indelible habit ("You can't win against me. I've been doing this since I was X years old") - or whether he WAS going to be physically intimidating/actually aggressive but something changed his mind once he entered the room - I don't know...you'd have to re-tell me in detail. But 'storming up the stairs'. That's what you see abusive fathers do. But equally, what you see in psychological thrillers and horrors - is it not? That's the real him. His real feelings inside. That you are a child-figure to his cleverer grown-up (snort!). And if you disobey or thwart him (which you did), he'll give you What For. "Wow - shutting me down!" That's not dismay and hurt talking. That's - Who the eff do you think you are!...you're getting ideas above your station...I'll show YOU! Simply written in an indignant victim stylee. Come the point where he thinks you've seen through him and know what he is, now, and that the faked victimhood no longer works with you so can be discarded....that's when you'll finally see the guy that stormed dramatically, loudly up the stairs at-speed...coming AT you with rage. That's why you need a safety-plan. That's why, the first thing to do is get an injunction based on the legitimate need to remove him from your kids. Not only due to his 'mood disorder' and copious threats to be found dead by little minds that won't cope with such a hugely adult brainload. But also due to the severe emotional blackmail, gaslighting, and the twisting of your arms when you have Carpal, and twisting and deadarming - A GROWN MAN WITH ADULT STRENGTH AND FORCE - delicate bones, muscles and skin. Why the EFF should you THREE move out because ONE is domestically super-anti-social and psychologically extremely dangerous to kids, directly, as well as through abusing you (in every way possible!), their mother (SAME DANGEROUSNESS TO YOUR KIDS, THINK ABOUT IT!) You have a too-strong case for getting him to have to move out. I would do that, rather than disrupt my boys' lives on top of everything else in the last - what is it - decade or more? SEE YOUR DOCTOR URGENTLY AND TELL THEM EVERYTHING - especially the twisting yours and both your kids' wrists and arms bit (which is not only abusive but unwarranted in that situation (and is him using "games" - we were just playyyyingggg) as his abuse cover and excuse). Explain your situation to your boss and ask if you can please make calls to the relevant authorities from the office landline (only a monster would say no). THEN PHONE SOCIAL SERVICES AND ASK FOR AN APPOINTMENT. (You're a Brit, yes?) They'll hold your hand through the entire process, including the court proceedings (you won't have to do anything except be friendlily-interviewed by Social Services and they type it up on a court-designed questionnaire, and then you keep them posted from there, to add to his rap-sheet). Also, in the days prior to the above SS appt - phone your local Police's Domestic Crime Unit and ask if it can be recorded that you're worried your extremely abusive partner could turn violent on you and the kids if he thinks you genuinely are leaving him for-good (it's The danger point with N-Spaths, even when they've never raised a finger to you before!). You follow this protocol and you won't need to leave. HE will. He'll be made to. And supervised while he packs. (Tell him not to forget his bucket with the hole in it, won't you.) And that's why I've been saying to you - do not make any 'I'm leaving you' moves or noises *OR EVEN MERELY VIBES (they're ferrel humans so have predator senses - so don't even THINK about this plan in his presence...I'm not exaggerating). In this situation, preparation is 99% towards escape/ejection success - okay? You won't have the confidence otherwise. So say things like this: "LOOK...you're not going anywhere and I'm not going anywhere, we're in this *family relationship (*- nice and vague) for the long run...so let's try to get along better from now on, shall we?" "Nice try but you aren't EVER getting rid of me. So if you WANT rid of me you'll have to come right out and say it." "Next summer or the summer after - why don't we holiday in X. So-and-so says she and Y went and it was the best holiday they've ever had!" (Counter-Future-Faking) TELL ME IF YOU DON'T EVEN DARE DO/SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT. In which case you'll need the universal/conventional escape and safety plan. **************************************** Plus - what's the latest?

PPS: Little mind-uck for him if he tries that storming up the stairs thing again (WHICH, BY THE WAY, AS SS KNOW - COUNTS LEGALLY AS VIOLENCE SAME AS IF HE'D STRUCK YOU)... "Tsk, oh no!...'You got Pins & Needles in your feet again?". (Just "be him" and think about it) (Now think about it some more) (Now cackle) That's right! You've been misreading that 'threatening' attempt this whole time (waaaaah, my dark magic suddenly isn't working, I've lost my evil mojo....ker-BOOM with the dreaded Vulnerability and violent Ego Deflation, goes his brain). ...That's if this wasn't his first-ever 'storming', of course?

Actually, ignore that last sentance - even if it's only the second time, that Barbie-Girl question will still work. Just not as powerfully as if he's done that a lot in his time as your fartner.

Hi Soulmate, I hope you’re keeping well. Sorry it’s been a while. I’ve had car troubles and then the following week we had major flooding in the area where I live. Couldn’t get out of the village to travel to work. Thank you for the in depth response. A lot to absorb, but helpful too. Things are calm still and I’m just keeping it that way. We are separated at the moment so he’s still on the couch, but there’s been no talk from him about moving on etc. He’s been more focused on trying to see his daughter again, which is proving difficult as the mother has not communicated much. I don’t let him get under my skin or show I’m bothered by comments or criticism. I’ve been cool and collected. In my mind I’m going to slowly make plans. I’m not in the strongest financial position, so this may take me some time to save money and feel confident enough to make that move. He’s definitely having therapy as I came into his study when he was in the middle of homework. It was on his screen. He fills in the boxes to questions etc. He has a male therapist called Dan.

Bumpety-bump! Haven't forgotten you - bearwithbearwithbearwith pantpantpant... :)

"Hi Soulmate, I hope you’re keeping well." Trying, thanks...things keep cropping up without warning....this country is no way first-world, more like third with tempting sprinkles on the top (i.e. tourists are treated like kings and queens, and residents like no-marks...kid you not). Cheers for the grumble... "Sorry it’s been a while." Hahahaha! NOO. THANK-you for having been a while! Take as much time as you like, missus. In fact (falls to knees) - feel free to help me out by respnding (or just chatting) to newly incoming posts (I'll be your best friend and you can even have my Red Starburst, haha). "I’ve had car troubles and then the following week we had major flooding in the area where I live. Couldn’t get out of the village to travel to work." Bloody Nora! And - ugh - must have been like another, mini lockdown...incarcerated for-real with the disturbing loony-tune. "Thank you for the in depth response. A lot to absorb, but helpful too." Yes - a lot. Sorry - this lack of time to myself is meaning I have to pack it all in into fewer posts. But like I say - this is your show, you go as slowly as you like. It's the same as eating: chew properly in managable mouthfuls, and don't swallow until it's puree, and then take it easy so your stomach can hog all of your available energy to get every little nutrient out of it before it's processed and the toxins expelled. Ironically, doing it this way, you'll progress faster. No waste - see?...and less need for repetition on my part ("oo's a pretty boy, then?"). "Things are calm still and I’m just keeping it that way. We are separated at the moment so he’s still on the couch," How is the couch faring? Is it sagging and generally looking miserable and defeated? :D "but there’s been no talk from him about moving on etc." No, there won't be. Narcs don't dump you. They PRETEND, sure, for manipulation purposes. OR...if they (genuinely) find a better target who WILL roll over and stay that way ("yes, Sir, no, Sir, three bags full, Sir (up your arse, hard, Sir, just as soon as I can get off the floor"). There AREN'T any doormats these days - not mentally, anyway. YOU have to dump THEM. But look at what you said. It's like you're waiting for His Lordship to decree. What about you? Don't you have a say, all of a sudden? You realise you're just in the eye of the storm? (Have you been reading up?) "He’s been more focused on trying to see his daughter again, which is proving difficult as the mother has not communicated much." Sensible woman. "I don’t let him get under my skin or show I’m bothered by comments or criticism. I’ve been cool and collected." Oh, REALLY. Strike 'what about you?' in that case. What you're saying is: you've mastered Grey Rock like a pro and so he's turned his crosshairs back onto his ex-missus. Well, in THAT case: victory hug ((((((HUG))))))). My proud of you face: :-) You're going to not only succeed, but come out of this, smelling of roses. I recognise the signs. WOOHOO! "In my mind I’m going to slowly make plans. I’m not in the strongest financial position, so this may take me some time to save money and feel confident enough to make that move." Ah. I see. Damnit...wish I could do a whip-round. Do you need ideas for making money - cash - and for very little effort - fast? (Nothing dodgy, just things that people overlook, but I don't (not wired to overlook, sarcasstic hurrah for me as per).) "He’s definitely having therapy as I came into his study when he was in the middle of homework. It was on his screen. He fills in the boxes to questions etc. He has a male therapist called Dan." Yuuuh. Define therapy. That's not therapy in my book. But, hey, it does as a Cover Excuse, BIG FAT EH. (PS just FYI: Big Fat Eh was my invention back in 2006. It's because it doubles, phonetically, for A as in Big Fat A-hole. Say it to him as much as you like hahahah - he won't know. BUT YOU WILL...and that's the main Rock thing.)

PS: something I've been meaning to ask you: If he's having online therapy (now there's an oxymoron) with a (haha) therapist (would YOU say it's been working?), then, HOW COME HE'S TEXTING TO THEM?

PPS: When you get a mo, please re-read this thread BUT - VITAL! - read only my replies to you. Fyi, that's why I paste your statements in...There's always, always method - forward-prepared, usually - in me madness ;) And I KNOW you can do it (not peek at yours). For a fact. Want to know how I know? Easy-peasy: What you've been managing to do, is this: You were tricked into becoming, let's say, an alcoholic. Full-blown. And yet (drum-roll)....You've just spent day after day for WEEKS, living in an Off-Licence shop....SURROUNDED by booze of all and any variety. NOT ONLY haven't you touched a drop. You haven't even TOUCHED a single bottle. NOW DO YOU SEE AND APPRECIATE HOW POWERFUL YOUR MIND IS? (RSvP) You're a nental Olympian, my luv. No WONDER he's had to go to such incredibly extreme lengths to get you to toe his line! (THINK about it.) Proud of and excited for, aren't' the words.

(tsk! Mental Olympian) (I know it's obvious but if I don't tick myself off I'll end up losing my English skills...end up typing things like, 'Like what she did' and, 'What it is, is...', haha, but seriously.)

One thing though: In order to help you, come the time, and beforehand, I really need you to answer those direct questions from roughly since he moved to the coach. Can you do that next, please, and then I'll be back on the same page as you. Chairs, M'Lady!