My husband [38M] and I [39F] are losing each other due to my issues

My husband and I have been together for 15 years, and have been in and out of the swinger lifestyle for about 9 of them. This is a long one, so I appreciate anyone who makes it to the end. When we met, we fell in love fast, and we fell in love hard. A few months in, we picked up, left the state and moved across the country, and started to make a life together. A couple of years in, we had our first child. Things weren’t easy for us while I was pregnant. We had to move back to our home state, and were essentially homeless for a while, and stay at his grandmothers house for which I am so grateful for. This was in our home state but as local as our home town, so often he would go out to see his friends, drink and smoke which were obviously things I could not partake in. I understood that, and tried to respect that as best I could as a hormonal, often times lonely and pregnant woman, but at times I did feel bitter. Part of me understood that he shouldn’t miss out on his friends and hanging out, especially after living out of state for a few years. He was back and happy and his friends missed him. I didn’t want to take that away. He was out breaking his back to find a place for us to live and a new job, so I don’t want it to sound like all my husband did was see his friends. But the other part of me was lonely, sitting around for most days, what felt like isolated, on top of being worried about where we’re living, and becoming a first time mother. At times, I felt alone, something I felt more and more of as I grew from a girl into a woman. Eventually we found a place, settled in, started getting ready for baby, and enjoying having a place to ourselves. This time we’re much closer to home, so I didn’t feel as isolated, which was amazing. I was closer to my mom, we were closer to friends, which most times he would still see, and I would hang back at home. It’s hard to hang around the pregnant lady when I couldn’t do much especially back then, it was a lot of partying. That started to make feel alone, and it got to a point I would complain about it. I would tell him that I was feeling alone, that I wanted him home more, and each time I was asking for too much so it would become an unproductive conversation. I was being too demanding; he wasn’t giving me enough of what I needed then. I tried to keep the complaints about it more to myself, avoid the conflict, and understood I wasn’t going to pregnant forever. Unfortunately, I’m terrible at bluffing and I know he saw my frustration underneath the surface. One night, we went out together with a large group of friends. I was in my third trimester, and at that point my Ob/Gyn said it was safe to occasionally have a glass of wine. I saved my opportunity for that during this night out. I was happy to be out, laughing, enjoying friends company’s and more importantly that I was having a night with my partner. Eventually the night grew to a close, and we left. Being the sober one (only one glass of red wine for me, and numerous whiskey and cokes for my partner), I drove us home. My partner lit a cigarette in the car, which very much infuriated me as he was for one already obnoxious drunk, but two, letting me around second hand smoke while our child was developing their lungs in utero. I was furious, and I told him to put it out, wait until we got home. I even offered to pull over aside safely so he could get out and have one, but all that did was infuriate him. As I drove, he spit in my face, and verbally berated me. Still I am driving us home, shaking with adrenaline, covered in his cigarette whiskey smelling spit, trying not to vomit from what happened and the smells. We finally get back home, and I did not back down. I shouldn’t have, but I persisted and pushed to find out why it had to blow up to where it did. Why it had to come to a cigarette being more important than our unborn child, and a simple courtesy to anyone. I shouldn’t have pushed an already angry drunk person, because all it caused was a level of anger I hadn’t seen from him. I don’t need to go into it, but there was as escalation to violence on his part, and it just about broke me. The next couple of days were a blur of what do I do, what did I do, and how can I and we move forward when I am getting closer and closer to delivering our baby. He did regret his actions towards me, and how he hurt and broke my trust in him. I kept him at arms length for a very long time, while remaining living together. It was so hard to trust him again, I had to keep a level of separation between him and my heart, and my walls went up, tough kevlar enforced concrete walls. It took him a long time to finally get a chip in my walls, and even longer for me to let my guard down. My childhood was filled with verbal and occasionally physical abuse. As a teenager there was a sexual assault and it was then I learned how “safe” walls can be. Any time I let them down and got hurt any way (not in overly sensitive way - but betrayal, disloyalty, etc.), I taught myself how to make it stronger, to not let people in so easily, and through this I feel I became very guarded on my emotions and self preservation. When I finally found a partner in this world that made me heard and seen and beautiful and desired and strong, my walls started to crumble. I hadn’t ever felt such love, such happiness and contentment with life. It shattered my heart, my soul, my brain into a million pieces when I experienced a hurt like no other. This one was cruel as it was committed at the hands of a man I worshipped. It took him and I a lot of time, and much effort on his part until I felt a glimmer of trust, that I could let him in. I never stopped loving him, but I let him love me again. In time, he allowed that to become truly in our past. Things between us grew, our passion returned, we lived and loved again. A few years after this, we discovered the swinging lifestyle and explored that, in addition to getting engaged, having our second child, and getting married. We started off playing with another couple and had an amazing time with them. The wife afterwards on several occasions would play with just my husband and I in a threesome. After each time, our passion for each other grew, and we made intense, primal and loving sex at the end of our time with others, when it was just him and I. It really was beautiful moments between us, what I would describe as an after glow. While we had an amazing time, I cannot say that I put in anywhere near as much effort into the exploration of the swinging lifestyle nor our sexuality, but I was always open minded and eager to try anything once, more if we liked it. The problem is that I hadn’t contributed to nearly much of any of that. A few years later, he brought up hotwifing, and it took me a while to mildly comprehend the idea of it. He did research on many topics on it, the psychology from a man’s point of view on how it’s a turn on, and truly made me see why he was intrigued and turned on by the idea. He also has said that he suggested it as another way to spice it up as our sex life, as I was still not contributing as much. Eventually, I felt comfortable to try and search for men on apps. He did the same, and would show me each match he had that he had vetted out, and felt like could be a suitable match for me. There came one guy who felt right, and after several weeks of talking with him and my husband about how I felt about and letting the sexual tension build up, we met at a bar. Prior to this meet, my husband and I laid out a couple of boundaries that we both agreed upon. I broke some of the boundaries we had. One that I set in place, as I didn’t think I would want it, was kissing. Even though I didn’t initiate it, when the guy kissed me, I didn’t stop him and kissed back. Another boundary we set was no anal, and I allowed him to play with my ass, although there was no anal sex. At one point, we laughed and this was after my husband was already shocked and still turned on and what was going on, but at this point did not know about the kiss. He found out the next day after texting with the man, as I was terrified and ashamed that I broke our boundary, and one that I set that my husband was nonchalant about. After it did blow up, and an omission of mine (the kiss) was uncovered, my husband forgave me. He gave me another chance to try and show him what this was about, and he realized that it may have been the newness of experiencing another man, alone, essentially free to do what I wanted and enjoyed so long as I made him feel included in the process. He continued to help me search for a better partner; encouraged me to let loose and have fun with it, in a sense of “freedom”. He enjoyed receiving text updates so he can hear from me and also hear what I was loving, what was turning me on, and how I felt. He wanted to receive videos and photos live time so he could enjoy them until I was back home to him. I was not the best at texting during sex, but I tried and he understood that it was more of a tricky thing to do in the middle of sex the entire time. So I sent photos and videos. At first they weren’t the best but in “practice” they got better as I understood the angles and would get some of the staged photos that my husband would really enjoy and get off on. Things were going well, but I still had a hard time communicating when I would randomly be thinking about another guy, even though he loved and would be turned on hearing things like that. I couldn’t verbalize why I would go wilder with others (the newness of a new partner, no feelings/emotions meant zero inhibitions) than I had with him lately. I made him diminished as a man, as my partner in life and this world and lifestyle to explore, as the love of my life. The way I acted broke him, like how he acted had broken me. I failed to communicate a lot of things that he yearned to hear. But there was so many times of me not speaking up, and therefore many more omissions in the process. Any time I would think of something but was too measly and timid to speak up, it would be brought up by my husband, and I would usually say “Great! I thought of that too the other day” for example, which naturally was very upsetting and eventually infuriating for him as I never tell him anything, which of course makes him believe that I don’t think of us or our future or the swinging lifestyle at all. It pushed him to the point of not believing anything I would say- my sexual fantasies, desires I had to explore with him, what I would enjoy seeing him try and do. I would search for couples, single women and men, so we could explore and play many facets of the lifestyle. Of course it was harder to find single women, somewhat easier to find legitimate couples where both parties wanted the lifestyle, and even easier to find single men. I don’t say I had given it my all, and part of that is the incessant and foolish fear of failure. It’s always been difficult for me to efficiently communicate. I get anxious, foolishly fearful that I’ll immediately be rejected, think what I have to say is not good enough to be heard, and hold it in. I clam up, and when there’s an opportunity for something I thought of a week ago presents itself, then I feel comfortable enough to pipe up. I can and rarely ever just speak up on my own out of the blue. I hate this about myself, that I close off anything that’s human about me, especially and more importantly to the man I love and have committed to and wanted to spend the rest of my life with. Another issue is that no matter my acknowledgment of my wrong doings, how I felt making the choices, how I felt afterward and what I would do and not do again, I’m somehow still failing to take full accountability. I have tried and tried but my husband feels that without a plan in motion, naturally and understandably holds it against me. I don’t know what to do to make it right. How can I become the true open and honest communicator that I desire to be? I envy people who wear their heart on their sleeve and communicate with ease. How can I fix my marriage and learn how to take accountability for what I have done? How can I earn his full love, trust, and rebuild our marriage, as he worked and tried to do with his mistakes? My efforts haven’t been strong, they haven’t driven across the same point that my heart and soul is screaming for and desires and fights for.

Hi and sorry for the long delay! Forum regulars are too thin on the ground at the moment. It is a free-for-all public forum of the traditional/old-fashioned variety, though, so, according to how it's supposed to work, please would you post a reply or two (your impressions/opinion/advice or sympathy - or just say Hi and that you're taking an interest in their problem!) to the other thread-creators who are sat waiting with you? (And note this same message is going to all of you.) Once our regulars, including myself, are in a position to, they'll no doubt contribute as well. Thanks! Soulmate

LackOfCommunication, (...ironically!) ...I apologise again for the non-response - plus I've been too ill - it's that time of year, including the dreaded lurgy... I'll dive straight in and try to make it up to you... "My husband and I have been together for 15 years, and have been in and out of the swinger lifestyle for about 9 of them. This is a long one, so I appreciate anyone who makes it to the end." I'm not reading ahead, I'm taking it para by para, and my brain when it reached 15 years, went, GOOD INNINGS, ALBEIT, INDICATIVE INNINGS, but then when it hit swinger lifestyle for 9 of them, went, AWWWW, SH*T, IT WAS ALWAYS DOOMED. Sorry. I'll still keep an open mind, though... "When we met, we fell in love fast, and we fell in love hard. A few months in, we picked up, left the state and moved across the country, and started to make a life together. A couple of years in, we had our first child. Things weren’t easy for us while I was pregnant. We had to move back to our home state, and were essentially homeless for a while, and stay at his grandmothers house for which I am so grateful for. This was in our home state but as local as our home town, so often he would go out to see his friends, drink and smoke which were obviously things I could not partake in." Oh dear... It's not normal for a couple who genuinely love each other to want to share their respective soulmate with others, including strangers - especially just a year into it (Honeymoon Period) - you do know that, right? So something was seriously up, even then. Also, falling in-love HARD and going TOO FAST, especially as that combination, is, I'm afraid, a super-strong indicator of gross insecurity/neediness and/or narcissistic tendencies/outright Narcissistic Personality Disorder....just, not going into the romantic relationship for the normal, natural, correct, well-intentioned, above-board reasons... a Giant Red Flag. WHY did you have to rush away from the state? Whose brainchild was that? And why did it end up in homelessness? "were essentially homeless for a while, and stay at his grandmothers house for which I am so grateful for. This was in our home state but as local as our home town, so often he would go out to see his friends, drink and smoke which were obviously things I could not partake in."" This aligns perfectly with when a disordered narcissist decides he no longer needs the non-relationship-connected perks, conveniences, status benefits, sex-on-tap, financial support, mothering - whatever else he feels he has a right to fraudalently engineer for himself ...and sod you, because if he's 'fallen out of "love"' with you, all of a sudden, his illness would make that have to be ALL YOUR fault, can't be his (his ill and puny ego wouldn't be able to stand it and might explode/collapse). Enter (insane) resentment (to insane level)... So - everything/where you're at, is YOUR fault, ergo you DESERVE, now, to be 'got back at'/'taught a lesson'... (Our Normal-Healthy) Honeymoon Period: "Idealize", using, "Love-Bombing", including rushing (fake) intimacy and the (fake) relationship, using solely Intensity That's the only part that tallies with us normal-healthies. From then on, it's: "Devalue (treat and talk to like sh*t on his shoe - or neglect, even cruelly, to drip-drip-rob victim of self-love, -pride and -confidence and the energy to stand up for herself, including, end the relationship as easily as one can a normal-healthy one No suitable replacement ready: (fake) "Discard" (dumping or getting you to/letting you dump him) ...followed by "Hoovering" (love-re-bombing switching quickly to intimidation and abuse to at least get your ego engaged, if your heart is refusing to play)... *******Google: "Narcissistic Circle Of Abuse" - see if you see him and your (um) ever-repeating relationship pattern.******** Anyway, this is not conclusive, I'm just reacting to what I see and feel according to what I know/have experienced... You could equally Google: "The Narcissistic Playbook" and "The Narcissist's Creed" - but you will find these pasted-in on others' threads in this forum, if you prefer? Then you might even identify yourself with the victim-Posters themselves, hearing them talk about it?... But my nutshell, here, would - in response to this bit - "so often he would go out to see his friends, drink and smoke which were obviously things I could not partake in."" is: often he would his friends drink "smoke" how convenient for him how unfortunate for you what a coinkydinky too no witnessing possible, only his word deliberately exclusive choice of activity and venue Normal, healthy, decent men do NOT treat their wives ilke that, whether or NOT they think they've 'fallen out of love' or into a rut, howevermuch. In fact, normal-healthies tend not to be capable of 'falling out of' love, to begin with (treated marriage seriously, want it to last for-life)... They especially wouldn't dream of it when she was carrying their child. They take their pregnant wives out - to appropriate and physiologically safe places - ALL THE TIME!....etcetera. Ok? Do you know THAT? If not - how come not? This is *not* looking good. Already. (Red Flag itself) I already don't like him (huge symptom itself - I'm the mamma (not literally) from the song, who 'dooon't liiiiike you an' she-likes e-very-one'). Hmmm.... Sorry. "I understood that," You understand what? Inappropriately un-loving, cruel, disrespectful, mental-health-threatening, potentially baby-marring, Spousal Neglect? Yuh, me too. And practically everyone here. No, you DON'T understand it. Not if you keep trying to make him fit your Normal-Healthy-Bloke-Having-Bad-Year viewing-lens. I repeat: he is not working right...not acting right. His attitudes and huge selfishness veer chasmically from the NH-Bloke behavioural script. "(and tried to respect that as best I could as a hormonal, often times lonely and pregnant woman, but at times I did feel bitter." Well, thank god for that! You're still in there! I already know that you're an (at least at this point), Emotionally Battered (Neglected, Confidence-shredded, Threatened & Tormented) Wife. Ok? Do you accept that? Are you surprised to realise you are and that *this* is what being (or becoming) any kind of battered spouse was like? "Part of me understood that he shouldn’t miss out on his friends and hanging out, especially after living out of state for a few years. He was back and happy and his friends missed him." What about you and your needs? What, is he the STAR of the relationship? (Course he is - we can plainly see so!) "I didn’t want to take that away. He was out breaking his back to find a place for us to live and a new job, so I don’t want it to sound like all my husband did was see his friends." Course not. If they were CONSTANTLY horrid to you, you'd have no Case For The Defence when it came to holding court (stay/leave) in your head, would it! It'd be Case Closed - He's Dumped! within the first month of that non-stop treatment/lack of! "But the other part of me was lonely," No - the WHOLE of you. Conscious-You was just constraining True You. (Why? Scared he'll leave you if you're not nicer and all-sacrificing? News for you: conditional love exists only between a parent and child; otherwise, the person has to be meeting your Human Needs (Google Human Givens). But Narcs love to convince you otherwise... e.g. "just TRUST me", they go. Er...no. Trust has to be built into a big enough wall - by being EARNED...by being A LOVING, CARING, REASONABLE, FAIR, LOYAL, etc., HUSBAND. I imagine in the next paras I'll see how much of the Love he's so far kicked out of you... " sitting around for most days, what felt like isolated," No, what WAS isolation. Google something like: "Narcissistic Isolation Campaign - ways narcissists isolate their partners" (/"victims"). "on top of being worried about where we’re living, and becoming a first time mother. At times, I felt alone, something I felt more and more of as I grew from a girl into a woman." No comment yet, until I see evidence that he dragged his feet in that home-seeking regard... But the fact is: normal-healthies (are programmed sufficient to) see it, once you (whose welfare is ever important to them - YOU are important to them) fall pregnant, that means you now are EXTRA-important. Narcs see it that, now you're hooked and EXTRA needy and reliant on them... meaning, they can start letting their true nature hang out in front of you and - YOU won't leave, you need him too much now, "hah!". And if you seem not to see it that way, he'll attack you or some mental sensitivity until you do. He now owns you, is your keeper, your Master...and you're the ages-outdated housewife chained to the kitchen sink (and cot), the angel in the kitchen, devil in the bedroom, emotional punching bag and Toxins-Puking toilet, and general lacky (all the way to secret "doormat" mum). Even leaving aside the fact you're PREGNANT! ...No normal, loving male could be so thoughtless, inconsiderate, gobsmackingly self-centred and selfish, outrageously emotionally neglectful, arrogant, superior, immature, SPOILT BRAT-ish! It's too elementary, knowing relationship/marital right from wrong - even once you start dating! They just DON'T CARE. They LIKE things the way they're going. This is how a relationship between a man and a woman SHOULD be, they think (misogyny comes with the NPD/AsPD territory...as does Hypocrisy and all other Prejudices). There's nothing you can do if a Malignant Narcissist (malignant includes for hard-hearted/cruel and serial infidelity). "Eventually we found a place," EVENTUALLY. Okay! I've won the bet with myself. NOT within a reasonable time-frame. (Did you have to 'nag-nag-nag', even to get it even that tardily?) " settled in, started getting ready for baby, and enjoying having a place to ourselves. This time we’re much closer to home, so I didn’t feel as isolated, which was amazing. I was closer to my mom, we were closer to friends, which most times he would still see, and I would hang back at home. It’s hard to hang around the pregnant lady when I couldn’t do much especially back then, it was a lot of partying. That started to make feel alone, and it got to a point I would complain about it. I would tell him that I was feeling alone, that I wanted him home more, and each time I was asking for too much so it would become an unproductive conversation. I was being too demanding; he wasn’t giving me enough of what I needed then. I tried to keep the complaints about it more to myself, avoid the conflict, and understood I wasn’t going to pregnant forever. Unfortunately, I’m terrible at bluffing and I know he saw my frustration underneath the surface." Oh, I see - 'today' is your SECOND child! Okay... Good... GOOD.... EXCELLENT! (yay for mums!).... Good... Bit better... NOT so good: "and I would hang back at home. It’s hard to hang around the pregnant lady when I couldn’t do much especially back then," YOU SELF-ISOLATED AGAIN...did it FOR him! Be honest You like solitude and your own company, don't you. Your problem is - he's taking advantage of that and taking it TOO FAR, into Neglect and Taking For Granted...turning you into a sodding marital Martyr. (And by now you're starting to feel the fire burn.) Correct? So you just can't get him to cooperate with getting the balance right for your needs. Well, no. Narcs *don't* cooperate. They won't. Not unless it's in theirs and only their interests. That belongs to the realm of Equality. And they're the Master. (They can barely run a bath, actually, so I should say - the pretend master, out in public, your overgrown, mean kid, behind closed doors.) Does he treat anyone else normally super-important to a healthy-minded male like they don't matter, should give and barely receive, all that...and in that (stand back and look) Cyclic manner? Or just you. As I've already indicated - it's perfectly easy to find twosome and friends/group things to do that DON'T involve anything unhealthy to the mother and baby. What's wrong with a group BBQ in the woods? Or a walk and picnic, including duck-feeding (and the blokes climbing trees)? Day out to a lake, fishing. Seaside. Cinema. Art galleries sculpture parks boating restaurants dinner-parties card and board-game nights at home friends just hanging at each others' homes decorating parties to prepare for baby (gaaaasp!)... ??? Do you see how you've unwittingly been Enabling him? "One night, we went out together with a large group of friends. I was in my third trimester, and at that point my Ob/Gyn said it was safe to occasionally have a glass of wine. I saved my opportunity for that during this night out. I was happy to be out, laughing, enjoying friends company’s and more importantly that I was having a night with my partner." FYI, you sound super-healthy (parasitic Narcs' victims/"hosts" generally are), including, as mature and conscientious as you should be by now. You're not the - or even "an" - Problematic Element in this. Bar being a narc's Enabler. But anyway - my mind, looking through the Narc lens - went - UH-OH...SHE WAS HAPPY AND LAUGHING...AND HE CAN'T HAVE *THAT* OR YOU MIGHT GET SO "COCKY" THAT YOU DECIDE HE'S PANTS AND TRY TO LEAVE HIM. Google: "Narcissist - fear of abandonment" (/"rejection). It's not fear. It's concern and then (if you escape) outrage. They are Egos On Legs. Some might have a heart, but it'll be an ucking tiny one. You can't win, won't win - nobody sane ever has. Not even when pregnant. In fact, very much like Narc world ("LaLa Land") where everything's upside-down or spun 180-degrees - once the woman gets pregnant, thereby 'totally reliant' on him, that's when the worse and worse treatment STARTS. See it? "Eventually the night grew to a close, and we left. Being the sober one (only one glass of red wine for me, and numerous whiskey and cokes for my partner)," Numerous. He's a barfly, isn't he, basically. His ability to booze outweighs his duty to nurture his wife and baby and existing kid. Google "Narcissists and alcohol abuse" /"substance abuse" /"addictions". In that case, he may not be a genuine Narc. But telling addicts and narcs apart is very difficult because basically, becoming an alcoholic 'turns you' narcissistic or all the way (depending on your starting point), all on its own. It's always just about, degrees...frequency...a (google) "Pervasive Pattern" of all levels of socially- and romantically-unacceptable attitudes and behaviours. "I drove us home." Despite you were pregnant and undoubtedly really tired. " My partner lit a cigarette in the car," WHAT THE EFFING EFF????!!!!! OMG. He's even started 'Lording it over you'! This is a worrying shift (in 'threatening' you and your welfare as well as showing you who's perpetual boss)! This (fake) man does not care about the baby inside your womb. He can't do. Who could convince us he does when WE ALL know that no man who did could do this. Nope. No matter how (e.g.) irritated or angry with their wife they were. Nope. This was his Master & Captor-like counter-measure to your growth that evening in happiness and confidence. (Toldja.) He doesn't want you to have any social-based support - close or helpful friends - because he's gearing-up to treat you literally like a slave.... Contemptuously (and other stuff). Plus, you're more attractive to other (Narcissistic) men if you look buoyant, whom might 'steal' you, his Golden Goose (wife that lets him behave, more and more, like... basically Henry The Eighth). I so hope you gave him verbal What For this time?.... "which very much infuriated me" GOOD! "as he was for one already obnoxious drunk, but two, letting me around second hand smoke while our child was developing their lungs in utero." FYI, they take advantage of "being drunk" in order to do this boundary-smashing but get clean away with it ("could elp iiit, I was druuunk, I don't even remembeeeer" - lies). I know his type now, and yes, Houston, we have another Narcissistic Sociopath (Malignant). Whether I next read you reacted/responded appropriately or didn't - this was him GOING TO FAR. Straight Malignant Coverts have more finesse...don't tend to overshoot (unless they're desperate to lure you back into their cage or emotional torture dungeon). ....AND THIS IS WHEN WOMEN (AND FEW MEN) VICTIMS DECIDE THEY NOW FINALLY HAVE TO LEAVE. BECAUSE HE'S STARTED ON THE KIDS. "YOU CAN HIT AND WOUND ME, PAL, BUT, DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH MY BABIES OR EVEN IF IT KILLS ME TOO, I *WILL* PULVERISE YOU!...so I'd better get away anyway, for your safety, whilst definitely getting away for the sake of my babies. (PS: I now 'hate' (and pity) him.) "I was furious," GO, GIRL!!! " and I told him to put it out, wait until we got home. I even offered to" In other words, he said No or just didn't. "(I even offered to) pull over aside safely so he could get out and have one, but all that did was infuriate him." YUP, YUP, YUP! He's reckless...take huges risks (with everything, including his relationship)...irresponsible....turns roles 180 degrees (he's suddenly YOUR victim - for being a spoilsport) and quick to aggression (hot-head) for being called-out as the No-Brainer Guilty Offender he is. IDENTIFICATION CASE CLOSED - NARC-SPATH. I'm so sorry. But this, surely, makes sense of why your mind is thinking: Who the hell IS this man and where's the lovely husband I married gone?! 'Invasion of the Body-Snatchers' but seemingly for-real - yes? You KNOW you wouldn't have married him or even given him the time of day - had you known he were capable of such CREEPING (drip-drip-drip) unreasonableness and cruelty and-and-and...let alone, do the things everyone knows you should not do around a pregnant woman. You be careful. At this level, they are apt to get physically aggressive, too. Even if you swore it weren't in his nature to be capable and had never before laid so much as a finger on you (or the kids). Read up on the Sociopathic Narcissist / Narcissistic Sociopath (or just plain Sociopath - try Jennifer Smith's site - see if you spot him). I HATE saying this but it's my social responsiblity to: These are the punch the pregnant wife in the stomach brigade. Okay? So I MEAN -be careful. Even this point into this opening post - I think you need to think about staying, you and the kids, with your parents. ________________________ Which reminds me: FY everybody's I: It's now official: due to the world economy and existential pressure - and us healthies being "down" - Benign Narcs have developed into Malignants and 'straight' Malignants (Covert and Covert-Vulnerable) have developed into Narcissistic Sociopaths. All together now: "Oh, great......JUST what we needed - more of the bstds making everyone's lives miserable". (Sorry, folks. But it won't last. Never in history have they ever kept the upper hand and made the world theirs (evil and hard-hearted) for very long. Normal-healthies are just more cautious thus slower to react/revolt. But we do. Every time. Amen. Just grit your teeth and don't stand for any nonsense from anyone because - if you do - you've 'fed the monster' and it just gets bigger/worse and worse.) ________________________ " As I drove, he spit in my face," DEFINITIVE, INARGUABLE CONFIRMATION - MALIGNANT NARC-SOCIOPATH!!! INCLUDES INSTANT REVENGE AS PUNISHMENT/DETERRENT, MULTI-AGENDAS (explain later), COVERT AND OVERT-NESS, MACHIEVELLIANISM, DELIBERATE SADISM, AND THE NO. 1 DEFINER OF A SPATH-NARC: HE HAS *NO* *SHAME* (AND LACKS ANY PATERNAL INSTINCT!) ID case now Supaglued closed! Go google and see for yourself: This is a precursor to violence (the other is the "acted-out" or full-blown chokehold) and in actual fact IS deemed ...THE... most violent thing one human can DO to another. Chokehold comes SECOND! You could be in real danger. Please get away. I'll help. ________________________ The rest of my responses, now, are purely academic and for helping you understand more... "and verbally berated me. Still I am driving us home, shaking with adrenaline, covered in his cigarette whiskey smelling spit, trying not to vomit from what happened and the smells. " Yup, leaving aside how disgustingly he was behaving towards his own wife and mother of his child plus child-to-be - he was risking making you lose control of the car or even shock you so much he triggered a miscarriage! You must have been MORTIFIED! (Incredible self-control, there, very much noted!) Anyway. This is described thus: 'Narcissists want you to believe that your REACTION to the abuse is the real problem, rather than, the abuse itself'. (Google "Narcissist - Blame-Shifting" /"- stealing the Victim Cloak" /"- Projection" - and "Minimising". Oh, and "The Narcissist's Creed"...may as well while you're at it.) I paraphrase it: "You evil bizc! All I did was stab you a tiny bit with this zombie knife and you've gone and DELIBERATELY sprayed arterial blood all over my new shoes - you BIZC! (take that!)" "We finally get back home, and I did not back down." YESSSS!!!! (Houston, we've got another winner-survivor!) "I shouldn’t have," Whatever it was you did - YES, YOU SHOULD! You must NEVER! EVER! back down or show fear to a BULLY. EVER. Even if all you use is your mouth (to keep it hopefully to the verbal). If they can tell they've pushed you too far because suddenly he's thinking WHO IS SHE?!, then they WILL back down....pretend they weren't serious or WHADEVAH gobbledeegook (puke) (google "Narcissist - Word Salad") ("- ways of Gaslighting"). "but I persisted and pushed to find out why it had to blow up to where it did. Why it had to come to a cigarette being more important than our unborn child," WELL PHRASED! (You're showing him you still know your stuff and will NOT take (a) THAT amount of constant shit from him or (b) ANY more shit (had enough of having had enough - right?). "and a simple courtesy to anyone." YUP! " I shouldn’t have pushed an already angry drunk person," Understand. If you shouldn't have - you - YOU - the type you are - WOULDN'T have. So in actual fact - you bloody did! Gold Star! "because all it caused was a level of anger I hadn’t seen from him." It's called, 'Seeing behind the narcissist's mask'. His mask dropped off! Google "the Narcissistic Mask of Sanity" (/"Respectability"). ****YOU SAW THE REAL BEING UNDER HIS NORMAL, NICE-GUY ACT... THE FERAL HUMAN (MORE ANIMAL). Fits totally with this horrifically shocking conduct and behaviour - right?**** ____________________________________________________________________________________ "I don’t need to go into it," Yes, you do. I need to be able to predict what he'll do next or is likely to do. Go into it, next, before you respond to this, my reply, please. It's imperative. (I'll tell you further along if I change my mind.) " but there was as escalation to violence on his part, and it just about broke me." You mean, actual, physical violence?? Again - describe, please. ____________________________________________________________________________________ "The next couple of days were a blur of what do I do, what did I do, and how can I and we move forward when I am getting closer and closer to delivering our baby." Yes. Arguments with malig narcs at the top of that rotten tree (spath narc) aren't. They're Traumas. You were in shock and post-mini-traumatic. Surely, you know there's no moving forwards from that? Not without a Zero Contact Separation while he goes to rehab or therapy? (Doubt it'll work, but, let's at least see how much HE wants this set-up to continue, shall we?...at least use it to get him behaving while you adapt to this left-field realisation that he's seriously psychologically disturbed, and where to go from there...to buy you time.) "He did regret his actions towards me, and how he hurt and broke my trust in him." Yeah-yeah, heard it all before. Haven't YOU heard about 'it all having been heard before', re other abused women (and men), re 'promises to change' or never do it again? "I kept him at arms length for a very long time, while remaining living together." Ah! Answer - YES, you do know! Good. :) "It was so hard to trust him again, I had to keep a level of separation between him and my heart, and my walls went up, tough kevlar enforced concrete walls." EXCELLENT! " It took him a long time to finally get a chip in my walls, and even longer for me to let my guard down." Oh, I see - so this was no RECENT event, but one that happened quite a while ago! Phew, then! You got through it, unscathed. (Ooh, you must look and sound even scarier than you think when seriously infuriated! Excelleeeent.) " My childhood was filled with verbal and occasionally physical abuse. As a teenager there was a sexual assault and it was then I learned how “safe” walls can be. Any time I let them down and got hurt any way (not in overly sensitive way - but betrayal, disloyalty, etc.), I taught myself how to make it stronger, to not let people in so easily, and through this I feel I became very guarded on my emotions and self preservation." Yes, course you were. What else did you think would have given you this amount of tolerance - even for the Heinous and Unconscionable? From Abuser to Abuser. You've never had a chance to heal and wash the whole lot of them out of your hair (and skin), and then re-grow your confidence, joie de vivre, ABILITY TO TRUST SOMEONE AGAIN - everything that the period took from you. The happy news is - BECAUSE you're healthy/normal - they grow back. :) And what a wonderful example of, the kid that for almost two decades REFUSED to roll over and "be like the Narc" for a "quiet" life, you are! You could be even BETTER? By just getting you and your kids away from there? But you're not to know that (yet). "When I finally found a partner in this world that made me heard and seen and beautiful and desired and strong, my walls started to crumble. I hadn’t ever felt such love, such happiness and contentment with life. It shattered my heart, my soul, my brain into a million pieces when I experienced a hurt like no other. This one was cruel as it was committed at the hands of a man I worshipped. It took him and I a lot of time, and much effort on his part until I felt a glimmer of trust, that I could let him in. I never stopped loving him, but I let him love me again. In time, he allowed that to become truly in our past. Things between us grew, our passion returned, we lived and loved again. A few years after this, we discovered the swinging lifestyle and explored that, in addition to getting engaged, having our second child, and getting married." Yup. That's how - and when - they get you. When you're down. 'Striking while the iron is hot'. You were starving hungry and he laid on a seeming BANQUET ("Love-Bombing"/"Idealize, Devalue, Discard"). This is standard Narcissist Cycle Of Abuse (type Romantic) stuff. Go surfing and you'll see - it's following the Narc Dominator/Abuser script (or one of them, per type) exactly. Trouble is....if they persuade you to keep them, they've "got away with it" - the monster is fed (grows in Despotic Arrogance etc.) AND ensures to THIS TIME ROUND, knock EVERY LAST BIT of your confidence out of you....so that you'll never dare try to stick up for yourself and your bubbies again (and wouldn't have the energy to, ANYWAY). But at least you 'interfered with his cycle' and got him "on probation", HAVING to play nice again for longer again. Well done. Really good for a first attempt at using your suppressed power. Don't be surprised if ever your inner animal (pro-social psychopath) potential pops out next time, though. Sounds like it's about TIME you two got acquainted and started acting like the team of two you're meant to be. ***************** "We started off playing with another couple and had an amazing time with them." Sorry - playing what? Oh, you mean, Swinging? Aww, god... You - like many women - need to realise that you're simply enabling a pervert while dragging yourself down to HIS level. SURE, you can become "into it" if you do it enough times. But it's not good for you, mentally, sorry - it's going against the natural-healthy programme. Different if this was a healthy, LOVING marriage and you were both approaching it as an equal team. But in this scenario - nope. He KNOWS this erodes women's confidence, he KNOWS it. They all do. THAT'S WHY THEY DO IT. it's a gathering of Narcs and narcs' victims. Your Uncomfortable Comfort Zone, his gleeful mistreatment tool (never MIND what ollocks justifications his mouth comes out with) (btw, Spaths are pathological liars as well as pathological everything else). Understand? "The wife afterwards on several occasions would play with just my husband and I in a threesome" How NICE for him-him-him. "After each time, our passion for each other grew, and we made intense, primal and loving sex at the end of our time with others, when it was just him and I. It really was beautiful moments between us, what I would describe as an after glow." Malignant Narcissists, make sex amazing for the woman only whenever they need to. They have to - you might DUMP their arse otherwise - think about it! It's a major, contrived HOOK or RE-hook. So when they have to start pulling out all the stops to regain control over you - it's like you just met and started dating again. Why? Because it makes your brain make its own Class A Happy Drug....you imperceptibly get drunk, easy to please, grateful, re-reading meaning into why the sex is so "heavenly"... it makes you PLIABLE so that he CAN get control over you (and mistreat you, which they enjoy) again. So in actual fact - what happened was - he pushed your buttons (the ones he discovered on the first few dates) and turned your brain into its own brewery. Beer Goggles. AND Beer Brain. Fiteen whole iQ points lower than normal AT LEAST. NOT in a good state to notice or rear up. "While we had an amazing time, I cannot say that I put in anywhere near as much effort into the exploration of the swinging lifestyle nor our sexuality, but I was always open minded and eager to try anything once, more if we liked it. The problem is that I hadn’t contributed to nearly much of any of that." Refer to above (his perversion and self-esteem-eroding tool/weapon). Not a rhetorical question, I really want to know: How did you not know from the start, that if your partner/husband of only 1 year wants and suggests he (and you) start Swinging, that this is a major sign for concern, i.e., Houston, something *evidently* is very wrong here? "A few years later, he brought up hotwifing, and it took me a while to mildly comprehend the idea of it." I don't know what that is? "He did research on many topics on it," Note he didn't put that amount of effort into finding you, he and kid a HOME? He doesn't WANT a home. He wants Power (over a woman) and (his case) Sexual Power (that lays in the grey area of seual abuse)? "the psychology from a man’s point of view on how it’s a turn on, and truly made me see why he was intrigued and turned on by the idea. He also has said that he suggested it as another way to spice it up as our sex life, as I was still not contributing as much." Which practicising or clinical/research psychologist(s) wrote it? Or are you talking, the Blind Leading The Blind on social media, i.e. Lay Opinion? AS your sex life? So switch permanently from twosome to purely crowdsome? Is that a marriage? Is that normal-healthy role modelling for your kids (oh, they'll find out, they always do). "Eventually, I felt comfortable to try and search for men on apps. He did the same, and would show me each match he had that he had vetted out, and felt like could be a suitable match for me. There came one guy who felt right, and after several weeks of talking with him and my husband about how I felt about and letting the sexual tension build up, we met at a bar. Prior to this meet, my husband and I laid out a couple of boundaries that we both agreed upon. " Oh, dear. He found your Achilles Heel and got you rolling over. "I broke some of the boundaries we had. One that I set in place, as I didn’t think I would want it, was kissing. Even though I didn’t initiate it, when the guy kissed me, I didn’t stop him and kissed back. Another boundary we set was no anal, and I allowed him to play with my ass, although there was no anal sex. At one point, we laughed and this was after my husband was already shocked and still turned on and what was going on, but at this point did not know about the kiss. He found out the next day after texting with the man, as I was terrified and ashamed that I broke our boundary, and one that I set that my husband was nonchalant about." He's always been just as nonchalant about kissing YOU - trust me! They can connect (contrive to connect). But they can't bond. "After it did blow up, and an omission of mine (the kiss) was uncovered, my husband forgave me. He gave me another chance to try and show him what this was about, and he realized that it may have been the newness of experiencing another man, alone, essentially free to do what I wanted and enjoyed so long as I made him feel included in the process. He continued to help me search for a better partner; encouraged me to let loose and have fun with it, in a sense of “freedom”. He enjoyed receiving text updates so he can hear from me and also hear what I was loving, what was turning me on, and how I felt. He wanted to receive videos and photos live time so he could enjoy them until I was back home to him." Thought it was just "a blip" - yes. Sex obsessed. Sex addict, like everything else-addict. (They misuse and abuse, EVERYTHING, not just people. Even themselves.) But I see what's coming. THIS WAS YOUR 'REVENGE' (or Equalisation). Your way to turn the tables. So you must have background realised that an equal-partners relationship thus healthy relationship ISN'T possible, thus your only option being turning the tables whereby you become Master to his Slave. (Putting another bet on with myself....) "I was not the best at texting during sex," (Haha! 'Where R U?' / 'Still in bed with matey...PS, don't forget the milk!') " but I tried and he understood that it was more of a tricky thing to do in the middle of sex the entire time." Not COMPLETELY unreasonable/detached from practical reality, then...suppose that's something... "So I sent photos and videos. At first they weren’t the best but in “practice” they got better as I understood the angles and would get some of the staged photos that my husband would really enjoy and get off on. Things were going well, but I still had a hard time communicating when I would randomly be thinking about another guy, even though he loved and would be turned on hearing things like that. I couldn’t verbalize why I would go wilder with others (the newness of a new partner, no feelings/emotions meant zero inhibitions) than I had with him lately." No, it's because he'd kicked the love out of you, and you kept him only for the (misguided) sake of the wee bairns. You were looking for a "male taxi" out of there (the marriage), thus your attention wanted to stay on NEW bloke....now no LONGER co-woman-harmer, but, ROMANTIC PROSPECT. I'm betting - mutual. (So this bloke was a marital victim, too, I'm presuming?...i.e. you met a good-un?) "I made him diminished as a man, as my partner in life and this world and lifestyle to explore, as the love of my life. The way I acted broke him, like how he acted had broken me." Crikey, we're in synch...?! I swear on my kid's life that I DO NOT sneak a peek beneath the para I'm responding to! It's like I can somehow detect a guitar string being quietly scraped without knowing it, so go, I reckon I'm about to hear guitar music - and the very next minute - the guitar strikes up! Not had that before.....INTERESTING!.... Well - well done!...taste of own medicine x 10!....what can I say? Doesn't work to teach them to cease their attitudes, though. Just makes them want to get revenge and punish you, back. They CAN'T step up. His type are not just '(nasty) kids in Grown-Up Suits, they're Toddlers. They got abused while still blueprinting as a baby-age 6 so they're ucked...the virtually incurables (unless you have 10 years available for a client who refuses to cooperate and just becomes your harrasser/stalker) (they detest/fear therapists and anyone with extra pairs of hawk-eyes that could see through them). What you'd done at this point, then, was - get down to HIS level but beat him on his own ground (jungle law). Amazing! He must have been in a screeching hurry to get into another relationship (attach to another host) when you met him, that's all I can say...because he seriously misprofiled you! Well! He's going down, then, isn't he! (I'm starting to enjoy this!) "I failed to communicate a lot of things that he yearned to hear." Just like he had. For fifteen whole beeping years. "But there was so many times of me not speaking up, and therefore many more omissions in the process." Just like he had. Etc. "Any time I would think of something but was too measly and timid to speak up," Just like he had. " it would be brought up by my husband, and I would usually say “Great! I thought of that too the other day” for example, which naturally was very upsetting and eventually infuriating for him as I never tell him anything, which of course makes him believe that I don’t think of us or our future or the swinging lifestyle at all." HAHAHA! You're "Outnarc-ing The Narc" AS YOU SPEAK! (google) ("Heyyy!...that's not in my playbook script!...what's going on?!?" ...Talk about wrong-footed, and, Anything you can do (to me), I can do better.) PS: I take it back. You ARE acquainted with your inner animal, you're NOT afraid of letting her out or letting her use her skills! Oh dear for him, then... (And yep...defo a Spath...they're the ones can seriously underestimate their choice of date (aka new/next victim aka Primary Supply) and end up pulverised and outfoxed back (even pre-emptively). Or he was this time too bored and arrogant not to bite off more than he could chew, possibly?) "It pushed him to the point of not believing anything I would say-" See how HE likes it. (I have ZERO SYMPATHY for him. He brought this all on himself. THERE AREN'T ANY "DOORMATS" ANY MORE - WE'RE NOT STILL IN THE PRE 1950s ffs!) (They can't change or update attitudes, you see....just what was forcibly drummed-in by what their equally archaic dads said/did/demonstrated....passed down - violently - from 'father' to 'son'... or mother to daughter in some cases...whichever is the dominant parent, though, and, as you now know - the intrinsically healthy one is the one they study and take their learning from. Kids KNOW when one parent isn't right in the head. It's when BOTH parents are disturbed that the kid usually don't stand a chance of coming out of that wash still clean. WAS your mum the secretly strong and determined type?) "my sexual fantasies, desires I had to explore with him, what I would enjoy seeing him try and do." You were out-Gaslighting him. :D Wow...where did YOU come from? Haha! "I would search for couples, single women and men, so we could explore and play many facets of the lifestyle. Of course it was harder to find single women, somewhat easier to find legitimate couples where both parties wanted the lifestyle, and even easier to find single men. I don’t say I had given it my all, and part of that is the incessant and foolish fear of failure." Fear of failure at WHAT? "It’s always been difficult for me to efficiently communicate". Apart from the one tiny thing of not having made it clearer that your first half was about an event from the past rather than present - you could have fooled me! "I get anxious, foolishly fearful that I’ll immediately be rejected, think what I have to say is not good enough to be heard, and hold it in. I clam up, and when there’s an opportunity for something I thought of a week ago presents itself, then I feel comfortable enough to pipe up. I can and rarely ever just speak up on my own out of the blue. I hate this about myself, that I close off anything that’s human about me, especially and more importantly to the man I love and have committed to and wanted to spend the rest of my life with." You only have to start practicising, you don't have to HATE yourself, ya nana. Practise makes perfect, right? "Another issue is that no matter my acknowledgment of my wrong doings, how I felt making the choices, how I felt afterward and what I would do and not do again, I’m somehow still failing to take full accountability. I have tried and tried but my husband feels that without a plan in motion, naturally and understandably holds it against me. I don’t know what to do to make it right." I actually don't get what you're saying here. Now isn't THAT interesting! As soon as you tell yourself you're a bad communicator - suddenly, your communication clarity crumbles! GOOGLE "SELF-LIMITING BELIEFS". But explain again that bit, please. "How can I become the true open and honest communicator that I desire to be? I envy people who wear their heart on their sleeve and communicate with ease." By ceasing hanging around and being married to psychologically-disturbed sh*theads, to thereby finally get the room and space and all the time you need, to heal from your childhood and NEVER ACCEPT OR SETTLE FOR A DYSFUNCTIONAL PARTNER, EVER AGAIN, AND FINALLY FEEL THE WARM FUZZIES THAT COME ONLY WITH THE HEALTHIES. And you may THINK you have but - wait until you try the difference...THEN you'll know. You went from abuser to abuser....stuck in LaLa Land. You've never healed back into full health as makes Not Having It (that level of crap), automatic...a no-brainer. Next question? "How can I fix my marriage and learn how to take accountability for what I have done?" You can't. Did you really think you could? With a man who'd taunt you with threatening your unborn child like that AND spit in your - his pregnant wife's face! AAAND the rest of it (I ain't stupid). You've come to a junction and thought - Where am I taking this Tables-Turning...and come up with 'No idea - what next?!'. Well - answer: stay where you are and keep being the master (although it's as full-time a job as being a slave, just as soul-destroying, just as facilitative a Self-Neglecting / Change Avoider / Procrastination Aid). Your only other choice is: back to Slave. YOU NEED TO ORDER ONE OF MY ALL-TIME FAVE BOOKS (I'll pop the link at the end). It'll very rapidly SHOW you how you really feel and really want to do/go. "How can I earn his full love, trust, and rebuild our marriage, as he worked and tried to do with his mistakes?" HE HAS NOT. He has (HE thought) just been merrily GETTING HIS OWN WAY (-ish) and, now, biding his time until he steals back the (disgusting, chavvy) Master role. And you're looking for a taxi out of there. But you haven't met him yet. MEANWHILE, he's being docile enough (although that's clearly starting to wear off) because you've been playing MUM aka Master. They know that position, that's how they grew up, they can just about be happy with that (despite YOU won't, you won't get ANY time to yourself, it's a full-time, soul-destroying 'job'!...as equally, just differently, as being the Slave. You can't win.) Can't you leave or separate under your own steam? Where are YOUR parents and relatives? "My efforts haven’t been strong, they haven’t driven across the same point that my heart and soul is screaming for and desires and fights for." Pardon? Which point about what? Desire of and fight for what? ******************************************************************************************** Anyway - surf this: " https://www.truelovescam.com/20-characteristics-of-a-sociopath/" Quick extract: "Pathological vs Non-pathological By now you’ve heard the word narcissist and maybe call the person who hauled you through hell a narcissist. The thing is a “narcissist” is most often a sociopath. If you’re thinking of them as a “narcissists” read about and research sociopaths for real answers. There’s lots of material and many memes and so many Insta accounts that talk about the more mundane narcissistic person who is not pathological and who is not a scammer. If you found yourself in a life where you were working harder than you’ve ever worked to keep your life and their life afloat only to find it constantly sinking, you were ensnared by the pathological narcissist…. that is, a sociopath." And meantime, order this award-winner - Too Good To Leave / Too Bad To Stay, by Mira Kirshenbaum, that has no best-before or use-by-date. Timeless and a miracle. it'll sort your head out in NO time - promise: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Excellent-Kirshenbaum/dp/B008S8VI1Q/ref=sr_1_4?crid=L4X90EC1V4UB&keywords=too+good+to+leave+too+bad+to+stay&qid=1703236106&sprefix=too+good+to+leave%2Caps%2C383&sr=8-4 Once you know where you are - you'll know where you intend to head for. (Not rocket-science, eh.) THOUGHTS AND ANSWERS, PLEASE? If you haven't time, just post a short sentance. After all - doesn't this describe the situation? : (again) "If you found yourself in a life where you were working harder than you’ve ever worked to keep your life and their life afloat only to find it constantly sinking, you were ensnared by the pathological narcissist…. that is, a sociopath." Doesn't that sound like you? PS: sorry if this is a really long one....haven't looked up yet. Take your time, apart from, please just let me know you're still checking/reading?

Oh, I forgot to tell you to google Narcissistic Rage! (The stunning level of anger and violence you'd never seen in him up till that point.) Actually, you've got enough to google so I'll do it for you and paste in this specific article from VeryWellMind: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-narcissistic-rage-5183744 "What Is Narcissistic Rage? By Arlin Cuncic, MA ((My comments in double brackets; NONE of these websites include every single symptom and from every angle or in combination as a psycho-emotional cocktail, including the variations in etiology; the victim has to go from site to site to find the bits that are missing from the ones before....very frustrating.)) "Narcissistic rage is a term that was first coined by author Heinz Kohut in 1972 to refer to the tendency for people with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) to fly into a rage with what might seem like the slightest provocation or no obvious provocation at all. ((Or simply, like I said to a Narc-Borderline-Paranoid-Antisocial Personality Disordered Spath ex (- ALL the co-mobidities, yay for mee!) who was playing the victim every time I stood up for myself (while I was biding my time until I was prepared for dumping, meanwhile using him as field study) and just wouldn't take his crap or roll over: "Your idea of me abusing you, is me not letting you abuse ME!". So standing up for yourself "is" provocation too. But then, if they're that desperate for an excuse to start up (because you're too angelic) - so is looking at them, or answering back, or failing to answer...any excuse, no matter how illogical or ludicrous.)) People with NPD require that others give them consistent admiration and positive feedback. When this doesn't happen, it can elicit underlying feelings of shame that trigger an instant angry response and cause them to lash out without considering how it impacts the recipient. ((Not a Spath-Narc. They don't do Shame any more, that ability has long atrophied and dropped-off (...nor guilt. remorse, compassion, sympathy, empathy, consideration, accountability or-or-or....they're BEASTS). They're just infuriated that their jumped-up Slave has dared think she or he (the victim) can even offer a suggestion ("who do you think you are!")...and must be punished by being beaten up, in the beginning, just verbally (which is worse than physically, actually...even battered spouses are admitting it now). Just - in some way, you've infuriated His Royal Highness (Lowness), whatever his despotness finds "disrespectul" of his god-like superiority over all beings, especially women and especially YOU, his emotional and practical slave. They're basically Kim Yong Un, without the genuine, presidency power position.)) It is the narcissist’s thin skin and sensitivity ((again - or just massive arrogance, warped or outdated world/relationship beliefs plus giant power-greedy ego - think PacMan)) that leads to this rage because of a deep-seated fear of being "found out" for not being the person they portray themselves to be. ((That bit's applies to the N-Spath too...his Narc side. But also of the Spath side in terms of not getting out-of-doors exposed by making you too scared to tell, in order that they can continue duping and scamming everyone in your circle because then they can be ever-ready his next victim to leap from you to. No-one is off-limits. These are the ones in those throwaway weekly magazines, like Bella and Take A Break, who unceremoniously and humiliatingly dump the girlfriend for her mother - and the narcissistic thus child-competitive mother (really, a child)) is prepared to prostitute herself and ruin her relationship-ish with her daughter for the massive ego-boost and attention)) Signs of Narcissistic Rage Are you wondering if someone you know might be exhibiting signs of narcissistic rage? Or are you somewhat aware that you may have this tendency yourself? If you’re not sure, take a look at this list of the signs and symptoms of narcissistic rage. While it might feel as though the attack is calculated, most often, narcissistic rage is reactive in nature. ((With an N-Spath, it can be reactive OR planned - or both simultaneously...just depends.)) An episode of narcissistic rage derives from a threat to a person's sense of self ((or - N-Spath - also: denting their over-deluded, over-self-grandizing sense of power and "authoritah")) and is characterized by intense anger.1 In a relationship, for example, this could manifest in physical or verbal abuse, manipulation, or passive-aggressive behavior.2 ((N-Spath - ham-fisted thug type who overshoots - over-extreme and out-of-kilter - actually spitting in your face like some scum-bum from a sink council estate or off the street...a Chav or ASBO candidate, as the Brits call it. PS: it's not a Relationship if it's with a Personality Disordered i.e. Malignant Narc, it's a Fauxlationship.)) Narcissistic rage is different from other forms of anger in that narcissistic rage is disproportionate to the perceived slight ((there you go...but now times it by 5 for an N-Spath's Rage)) ; it’s as though the person has a hair-trigger response. It’s completely out of proportion to what provoked it and often takes the other person by surprise. ((N-Spath - puts you into actual shock and after-shocks)) Narcissistic rage can be active or passive with corresponding outward or inward signs of the problem. Below are the signs and symptoms to watch out for. ((N-Spaths do ALL of these Overt and Covert behaviours, and mix and match, i.e. will have a fake rage, just to distract you from something terrible they've done when you're getting to close to discovering it and might well dump them on-the-spot, but, the trouble with that is, the rage can take them over and become real rage...especially as they crank themselves up to that state...they bloody LOVE it! But anyway - all of the following, unlike some rare temper from an otherwise Normal, is *Without* A (reasonable) Cause, and Without The Right)) Outward Signs Bouts of rage when not given the attention they feel deserve Screaming and yelling Angry or explosive outbursts Intense anger Sudden fits of anger Becoming verbally or physically aggressive Inability to control the rage Intentionally trying to inflict pain (emotional or physical) on others Inward Signs Passive aggression Giving the "silent treatment" Withdrawing or being aloof Avoiding someone Hidden resentment Neglecting to do things Using sarcasm to cut people down Righteous indignation A sense of entitlement Becoming hostile or bitter Cutting people off as a means to protect their self-esteem ((Don't agree. They have PLENTY of available fans and sychophants (Flying Monkeys) to quickly pump themselves back up again with. IT'S TO PUNISH YOU...and provide a future deterrent to you. When a non-narc victim does it, THEN it's for genuine self-protection of their self-esteem and even personal safety)) Dissociation or feeling disconnected from reality The Connection Between Depression and Anger Causes of Narcissistic Rage If you suspect that someone you know has problems with narcissistic rage or that you may have this problem yourself, you might also be curious as to the cause. While we don’t know precisely what causes narcissistic personality disorder ((er...yes, we do, now?!)), which is often an underlying factor in narcissistic rage, it’s likely that a combination of genetics, upbringing, and life experiences play a role.3 ((AND the child or teen's temperament...and also with sociopathy alone - untreated ADHD along with getting Narcissised by their unhealthy family and community/cultural upbringing)) If you’re confused about whether someone you know might have NPD, it’s helpful to learn more about this disorder. NPD tends to disrupt all areas of a person’s life and can be overt (obvious), covert (hidden), or even high-functioning (the person is successful in life despite the disorder, such as a high-powered business person who is known for flying into fits of rage).4 ((- the Higher Functioning Narc-Spath aka Silver Spoonn Spath)) Personality Traits The criteria for a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder require a pervasive and long-term pattern of certain personality traits, including: Grandiosity Need for power and control Lacking empathy A sense of entitlement Being envious of others Arrogance Need for attention People may struggle with these types of narcissistic vulnerabilities without meeting the full criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. ((E.g. temporary, reactive Narcissism - acting like an injured, over-guarded, selfish wotsit - OR be still intrinsically healthy but unknowingly just riddled with "Narcissistic Fleas". But only true NPDs aka Malignants get-off on being deliberately cruel and sadistic AND FEEL BIG AND BETTER FOR IT - there's the difference.)) Additional Contributing Factors In addition, there are a number of specific factors or causes that can be identified when it comes to NPD and narcissistic rage in particular. We know that narcissistic rage happens when a person experiences "narcissistic injury," ((Google!)) which equates to the sense of self being threatened.5 Below are some other factors to consider: Early childhood trauma, such as abuse or neglect and invalidation of the person's emotions, can cause them to bury their true self and hide internal injuries behind a false or alternate persona built on lies. A highly sensitive temperament that is very reactive to feelings of shame can exacerbate rage responses. Failure to develop critical emotion regulation skills ((and given inappropriately adult-rated power over others, like siblings or the other, victimised parent) can result in a childlike way of reacting to situations. An unstable sense of self-esteem that makes them feel as though they are at risk of being "found out" ((or exposed thus future-foiled)) can result in rage when triggered. Facing a setback or disappointment that triggers shame and shatters one’s self-image can then trigger anger. Being envious of someone else having something that they don’t have (i.e., material things, relationships, status) may prompt a rage response. Memories of early experiences of shame can be triggered by current events leading to intense anger. "Splitting" (also known as black-or-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking) or viewing other people as good or bad (i.e., narcissists shift between idealizing someone and then degrading them; seeing someone as all good and then all bad) can explain the sudden nature of rage responses. Having a sense of self that is split into two parts (true self and false self) can complicate a person's ability to manage emotional responses. ((- just a bit?!...they're so deluded, technically they're dementia patients even long before they officially diagnosed as such!)) A fragmented sense of self that requires the adoration of other people (narcissistic supply) creates a fragile situation in which their entire sense of self is based on what other people think of them rather than a true internal self. 10 Cognitive Distortions That Can Cause Negative Thinking Types of Narcissistic Rage As mentioned previously, there are two different types of narcissistic rage: outward or explosive and inward or passive. ((- N-Spath: overt at the time - covert (mistaken for passive-aggressive) simultaneously but out of sight, or days/months/even years later...."I'll get you for that!". Only Revenge or taking it out on SOMEONE self-regulates them (cuckoo!)) Explosive rage: The person hurls insults, screams and yells, and may even threaten other people or harm themselves. Passive rage: The person retreats into a period of sulking and refuses to engage with you. ((that's just Covert/Hidden Rage....sorry, but this writer has either forgotten or never seen any type of Narc switch INSTANTLY LIKE A MIRACLE from raging at you to just-in-time rever to sickly-sweet when a third party unexpectedly walks in. It's not begun out of real rage, as I say, the pretend rage, after about 5 minutes, takes them over and THEN becomes genuine...bit like faking doing a poo but then one actually escapes (sorry - best analogy I could think of.)) A narcissist can engage in both types of narcissistic rage rather than being solely outward or inward in their actions and behaviors. ((Spaths definitely do both when the raging at you didn't make you roll over and tremble forever. A straight malignant Narc will just suddenly 'refuse to discuss it any further' - discussion closed! - right before you get YOUR say.)) The Signs of Grandiose Narcissism and How to Deal With It Narcissistic Rage Cycle Unlike typical anger, narcissistic rage does not go through a series of stages. For example, psychiatrist Adam Blatner identified the following seven stages or levels of typical anger:6 Stress: Feelings of anger under the surface that are not consciously acknowledged or acted upon Anxiety: Anger starts to leak through with subtle signs Agitation: Outward signs of being displeased without any blame assigned Irritation: Showing more displeasure to get others to respond and change Frustration: Showing anger with an angry face or using harsh words Anger: Increasing how loudly you speak and being more expressive Rage: Losing one’s temper and flying into fits of aggression ((- N-Spath, non Silver-Spoon - verbal and/or physical violence, actual assault...a Spath can get you "beside yourself" in a third of the time it takes a more, constantly-covert Narcissist, and in roughly half the time of a Covert-Vulnerable; they're more intense, more 'heavy', more chaotic, more irrational...just more extreme and shocking/disturbing)) In contrast, there is no progression through a series of steps. Rather, what happens during narcissistic rage is more of a child-like response in which the person goes straight from feelings of stress to a full-blown outward or inward expression of rage. ((A tantrum - which healthies grow out of by about age 4 or 5)) Some refer to this as the narcissistic rage cycle. In this cycle, others don't live up to the person with narcissism's expectations, ((not giving, admiring, singing the praises of, obeying enough...)) causing them to feel disappointment, then leading to anger which is followed by feelings of shame. This narcissistic rage cycle repeats, resulting in emotional dysfunction.7 Examples of Narcissistic Rage Still not sure if what you are experiencing is narcissistic rage? Below are some examples. Not Getting Their Way Your boss might make an unreasonable request such as asking you to work long hours over the weekend on a project at the last minute. If you refuse this unreasonable requisition, they may lash out with narcissistic rage. ((or subtly, calmly, threaten your job security)) Not Getting Enough Attention A friend might always direct the conversation back to talking about themselves, even in the case when someone has shared something important and listening would be more appropriate. They might even become jealous and sulk or lash out if everyone is giving attention to someone else’s problem and ignoring them. ((or, N-Spath, you dared merely look at some bloke who was looking at you - or dared be funny in company...whatever - ya vull, mein furher)) Feel Like They Are Losing Control of People/Situation Someone might lash out at you if they feel as though they have lost control of you or the situation. Reacting to Criticism Narcissistic rage can result from even the most gentle of criticism because of the unstable sense of self-esteem. ((and - N-Spath - being a low-eQ, spoilt, needlessly over-excused and shielded, brat with the mental-emotional age of a toddler, still...e.g. mummy's wickle soldier who can do no wrong, even when he so does. Even that PC-nonsense, medal for merely participating in sports day races crap, encouraged narcissism in primary-school kids)) Getting Caught Doing Something If you point out that someone is lying or cheating and they react by turning the tables and making you feel as though you are in the wrong or mistaken, that could be a sign of narcissistic rage. ((If it happens more than once in a Blue Moon - it definitely is..."Pervasive Pattern" or "repeating cycle" - e.g. 'I've heard your Sorries before and they mean nothing because nothing ever changes!') Consequences of Narcissistic Rage What are the consequences of narcissistic rage and why is it such a problem? The truth is that narcissistic rage has negative effects on the person who has the problem as well as everyone else who is subjected to the rage. Below are some of the possible negative outcomes of narcissistic rage ((again - it has to be more than one or or just a couple, and repeated or sustained over a reasonable period - and the INTENTION and GENUINENESS of the reaction decides whether it's NPD or a victim simply taking on Narc-style defenses out of desperation and despair)): Rifts in families Breakups of relationships Other people not wanting to be around you Having success but at the cost of friendships Financial difficulties Problems sustaining employment or attending school Problems with the law Physical harm (e.g., to others with outward violence and to the self with self-harm such as cutting, burning, or headbanging) Feelings of guilt, loss, and being worthless Inability to adapt to change Depression and anxiety Problems with physical health Substance use and addiction Suicidal thoughts or behaviors" ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ((Ultimately, however, one just needs to ask oneself this: Am I happy and at peace in this relationship - or howevermuch the opposite and seeing no way to fix it yet no way to get out without damaging/injuring myself in the process.))