Did my ex cheat on me with old man? Is she guilty?

Ok so I ended my relationship with my ex months back but I wanted to know people’s opinions on one particular issue. What does everyone think about this story I am about to tell you. My ex is an extrovert, confident, personable and sociable with everyone especially men. She’s also an alcoholic. During our time together she would often visit a pub in her local area. The pub is ran by an old man named Charlie, who’s married and is in his seventies. She met him a year into our relationship through her sales job. One day she was took me to his pub to meet him. I met him, he seemed ok but there were things I noticed about their dynamic that made me suspicious. Firstly, she went into his office for almost thirty minutes, I had no idea what they were doing but when she came out she just said they were talking - “business.” My ex is somewhat of a wheeler dealer. Her & Charlie would often work on secondhand cars to sell for profit. Case in point, the day I met him, we were at a garage next to the pub as she was inspecting a car that he wanted her to work on.End of the night as we were leaving, she was saying her goodbyes to Charlie, she was very drunk at this point, having regurgitated a few hours prior. I noticed she grabbed hold of his arm tightly as they were walking. Initially I brushed it off as just a friendly gesture. The type of gesture you would express to a close friend or relative. Two months later, i asked her if she had seen Charlie recently and she told me no because apparently he had sent her a lewd text message. She claims he sent her an explicit message which made her feel uncomfortable therefore she cut ties with him. I found this insanely odd and I told her it’s due to her flirtatious nature with him when she’s drunk, she may have given off the wrong signals, especially the night I met him, when she hugged him tightly. A few months later she tells me she she’s been visiting the pub. She obviously forgot about the text to which I reminded her and this caught her off guard. She denied receiving any message from him instead she tells me it was sent by accident. Apparently someone else got hold of his phone and sent her that message. Again I was suspicious but I brushed it off and forgot about it. Long story short we split a few months later for very different reasons. Plot twist: One day I bump into two of the barmaids who work for Charlie, they informed me that my ex was always going into Charlie’s office every time she visited therefore what I witnessed, wasn’t the first time. The ladies also told me that my ex would often receive free drinks but only after every meeting they had in his office and in that order. So for over three years she was going into his office and every time he would give her free alcohol. Eventually I confronted my ex about this matter. Naturally she was defensive, claiming they were just friends and that they were just doing - “business” in his office however she would never clarify what type of business. She then tells me that there were times she was alone with him after business hours. She claimed she would sometimes stay with him to ensure he would drop her back home safely. She then tells me that one time he gave her extra free drinks with shots and cornered her in his office. He made advances to her but she resisted him. When I asked her why he was always giving her free drinks her reply was - “because he hoping to get somewhere.” At the end of the conversation I was left miserable, confused and insulted. Furthermore she would also say this and I quote - “and even if I did have sex with Charlie, I wouldn’t tell you.” The two barmaids had also informed me that my ex began dating other men from the pub and one particular night, she literally seduced Charlie at the bar whilst her date for the evening looked away with shame. They told me she flirted with him and told him she wanted to go home with him but ironically she got off with the DJ that night instead abandoning her date and Charlie in the process LMFAO! I’ve met Charlie three times and every time he was very awkward with me. Never smiled, or cracked a joke, he wouldn’t even talk to me, in fact he seemed envious/jealous of my relationship with my ex. He just gave off this awkward energy every time I met him. The last time i saw him (after the split) he had the nerve to ask me why we split to which he asked - “too much sex?” Anyway what do you guys think? Clearly somethings not right, something doesn’t add up. Unfortunately I will never know the truth, it will always remain ambiguous, controversial. I’m happier without her now but it still takes the biscuit. The irony is during the years that we were together, I’d always get suspicious about her affiliations with other men but the one man I never considered a threat, might have been the biggest threat of them all. Have any of you experienced something similar? Can any of you relate and what do you guys think? I appreciate the feedback.

Hi MrMeta, "Ok so I ended my relationship with my ex months back but I wanted to know people’s opinions on one particular issue. What does everyone think about this story I am about to tell you." Important to know how many months back, please? Unless it's specified below (am not reading ahead). "My ex is an extrovert, confident, personable and sociable with everyone especially men. She’s also an alcoholic." Because men buy women drinks, per chance, where women don't tend to? Is she seeking treatment for her alcoholism? "During our time together she would often visit a pub in her local area." (So you're in UK, then?) "The pub is ran by an old man named Charlie, who’s married and is in his seventies. She met him a year into our relationship through her sales job." Selling what? And was he the client/customer? So she's a dry alcoholic, then, if she's managed to keep a job? How long has she been alcoholic? "One day she was took me to his pub to meet him." Why did she want you to go to the effort of meeting him? "I met him, he seemed ok but there were things I noticed about their dynamic that made me suspicious." Uh-oh. (Strike above question, have found out why.) Wanted you on your toes, did she? Though she'd Triangulate you and he to get you competing over her or make you too nervous to assert yourself any more lest you got instantly and unfairly fired as her bf? It is NOT hard to keep that sort of thing under-wraps so that the other half suspect nothing, it is NOT. She WANTED you to feel suspicious. Undoubtedly, the whole point of dragging you there. So what was this reason of hers for insisting you 'just had to meet him'? Well, she's behaved revealingly, characteristically inappropriately already. Let's see 'What Katy Did Next'... "Firstly, she went into his office for almost thirty minutes, I had no idea what they were doing but when she came out she just said they were talking - “business.” My ex is somewhat of a wheeler dealer. Her & Charlie would often work on secondhand cars to sell for profit. Case in point, the day I met him, we were at a garage next to the pub as she was inspecting a car that he wanted her to work on.End of the night as we were leaving, she was saying her goodbyes to Charlie, she was very drunk at this point, having regurgitated a few hours prior. I noticed she grabbed hold of his arm tightly as they were walking. Initially I brushed it off as just a friendly gesture. The type of gesture you would express to a close friend or relative." You should have had an idea, because she should have told you as she excused herself. No consideration nor basic, social-rule-following and -etiquette, noted. What do you mean a wheeler-dealer? You mean, drugs street-peddler? I don't know many alcholiics who could do a job as full-on-involved and entrepreneurial as ACTUAL Wheeler-Dealing is meant to mean - do you? Drugs, on the other hand, is quick and fast...Instant Gratification. Whose money is she drinking? Yours? Her so-called business's? "Two months later, i asked her if she had seen Charlie recently and she told me no because apparently he had sent her a lewd text message. She claims he sent her an explicit message which made her feel uncomfortable therefore she cut ties with him. I found this insanely odd and I told her it’s due to her flirtatious nature with him when she’s drunk, she may have given off the wrong signals, especially the night I met him, when she hugged him tightly." Two months later? Haven't we missed out a chunk. Like, what happened after she and he emerged from the orifice-I mean, office? Or maybe she WAS doing something shady. BUT, THEN, WHY TAKE YOU ALONG AND WHY THEN BEHAVE IFFY IN FRONT OF YOU?...if not to put you ON the scent. (Don't like her. I'm getting wafts of secret scum. Looks good, does she?) A lewd text message? What did she say it said? Did she do what a gf would do and show you? Or just tell you? And I agree. A woman has a right to get on with her day and not be accosted but there is, still, such a thing as 'being a beep-tease' and inappropriately using your sexuality as a sales weapon. But this is hardly Vogue ad-space-contract-selling we're talking is it. If you didn't want to name it, and given she's an addict - it's got to be drugs. "A few months later she tells me she she’s been visiting the pub." HUH? Then her claim was a lie! Or she's an idiot and masochist who loves taking risks (uh-oh). "She obviously forgot about the text to which I reminded her and this caught her off guard. She denied receiving any message from him instead she tells me it was sent by accident. Apparently someone else got hold of his phone and sent her that message. Again I was suspicious but I brushed it off and forgot about it. Long story short we split a few months later for very different reasons." Yuh... because if you or I were sexually advanced on by someone we found too old and unattractive, amongst possibly other things, and didn't like it, that's what we'd do: go straight back for more. Yes. To answer your crux question. She IS full of BS. "Plot twist:" Her neck, if she's not careful. "One day I bump into two of the barmaids who work for Charlie, they informed me that my ex was always going into Charlie’s office every time she visited therefore what I witnessed, wasn’t the first time. The ladies also told me that my ex would often receive free drinks but only after every meeting they had in his office and in that order." Well, then, she's giving him "flow dobs"! For cash! And those free drinks. Seems pretty obvious to me already. (But I get you're embroiled and invested so can't quite believe you could ne correct, definitely.) "So for over three years she was going into his office and every time he would give her free alcohol." Three years. Oh my god... Oh jesus... I'm sorry. :( "Eventually I confronted my ex about this matter." While she was your girlfriend. "Naturally she was defensive, claiming they were just friends and that they were just doing - “business” in his office however she would never clarify what type of business. She then tells me that there were times she was alone with him after business hours. She claimed she would sometimes stay with him to ensure he would drop her back home safely. " Really? If you were her and innocent, wouldn't you be having too much trouble, stifling a laugh, than defensive, for being accused of something so .......BUH...don't know th- yes, I do - so ridiculous, so outside of your nature, so left-field and downright impossible? I'd laugh my FACE off! Guilty. Oh, I'm so glad you dumped her. Pat on the back and a gold star! Wait, though: WAS HE HER ONLY CLIENT? (Sorry...needed to asked.) "She then tells me that one time he gave her extra free drinks with shots and cornered her in his office. He made advances to her but she resisted him. When I asked her why he was always giving her free drinks her reply was - “because he hoping to get somewhere.” Yeah, she told you that so she'd not be a sleazy, secret, underhanded prostitute while officially your girlfriend, but the poor, wee victimy-wictimy. It's called the Pity Ploy (google Martha Stout - Pity Play) because pity disarms you and/or dissolves your rightful anger. Beware the Female Narc-Sociopath (who abuses substances as much as people and bloody everything else they touch, while you believe they just have a drinking problem; noo, they INCLUDE a drinking problem.) "“because he hoping to get somewhere.”" DUUUUUUH? DEN DON'T TAKEY-WAKEY IT, REFUSE AND BUY YOUR OWN, DUUUUUH? What a crock. What a thick cover story - oh, she's a narc-spath alright. Ew...Unclean.... They're like bag-lady gypsies, some of them. The bad kind. Hanging out with decent types like you so as to appear like a normal-decent too. When actually, they're not even FEMININE. They're bawdy and tarty... bloody charicatures. And yet they CAN scrub up well and fool you....until the actions, which are SO scummy, give them away as sleazy street con-merchants. So, yes, I'm not too fond of them. Where was I?... "The two barmaids" Them I like. :) Her, these two barmaids, DON'T LIKE. Which makes me like them even more. And evidently, they really like you! So there we go. Everyone reveals themselves by their, even unexpectedly brave and supportive actions, don't they? While others just keep rolling around in the mud and their own poo. (Shame it's psychological/invisible, including, lack of stench, eh...would make OUR lives easier.) She's a Pig. (I mean, this is 2023. What women still behave like THAT?! Including dragging an innocent (you) into it for window-dressing!) But without their intelligence. Her cover-story was SO WEAK. Plus, what's the Landlord going to think when HE finds out what she's going around saying?! (I wouldn't like to be in her shoes. He's clearly not exactly respectful or classy (meaning, manners, not money), himself, eh.) Where-ish the hell in England IS this? 'Sales'. HAHAHAHAHAHA! Next time someone wants to kiss me (and I'm in Spain so they ALL want to kiss you!), I'm going to say: Lip Hire costs a Tenner per second, thank-you. They probably won't pay it but I'll have fun saying it. And then I can say I'm in Sales. Yayy, that was easy. (Haha, sorry. I don't like her. Doing a double-life on you like that. Risking your sexual health in the process- ugh, sorry. But get a test just for peace of mind.) Anyway... "At the end of the conversation I was left miserable, confused and insulted." AND the rest! "Furthermore she would also say this and I quote - “and even if I did have sex with Charlie, I wouldn’t tell you.”" Case Closed. Gimmie the gun. She's not thick - she's over-cocky and doesn't even CARE if you work out the truth or that she's been seen and could be told on! She bloody loves it! OMG. A giant one. Oh, thank god, again, you got away! This is just......BUUUUH....GAAAH.....BRAIN DOESN'T LIKE IT, BRAIN DOESN'T LIKE IT! Don't get me wrong. If needs must and you're a prostitute - fine! But don't CON people to be your respectability and sales props ffs! (Did Charlie get a kick knowing you then her next bf were right outside? Ugh. You must both feel you vicariously had sex with Charlie! (Or would that just be me?) Anyway, back to 'the two (sweet, caring, helpful, brave) barmaids'... "had also informed me that my ex began dating other men from the pub and one particular night, she literally seduced Charlie at the bar whilst her date for the evening looked away with shame." Call Jerry Springer, quick! (POOR BLOKE!) "They told me she flirted with him and told him she wanted to go home with him but ironically she got off with the DJ that night instead abandoning her date and Charlie in the process LMFAO!" What's her name? Wait, let me guess.... MARGARINE! Yes? (Spreads easily, even straight from the fridge.) "I’ve met Charlie three times and every time he was very awkward with me." Now you know why! "Never smiled, or cracked a joke, he wouldn’t even talk to me, in fact he seemed envious/jealous of my relationship with my ex." Bet she told him you were her pimp and were abusive to her! Or merely that you'd said this/that derogatory thing about him. BECAUSE THEN, THAT WAY, YOU AND CHARLIE-BARLEY NEVER GET TO STUMBLE UPON THE TRUTH AND AMOUNT OF CONNING AND MINDGAMES SHE'D PLAYED ON YOU BOTH. Google, Narcissist - Isolation / Ways of Isolating and Triangulating. Oh, and Gaslighting, of course. All of it. "He just gave off this awkward energy every time I met him. The last time i saw him (after the split) he had the nerve to ask me why we split to which he asked - “too much sex?” Shall I punch him or do you want to? The stupid fool. But that indicates she said something like, you refused her sex. Although, she could literally have told him ANY lie. NO SHAME....no. 1 characteristic of the giant one...the Narcissistic-Sociopath aka Sociopathic Narcissist aka Narcopath aka UUUUGH, PUKE-STATIONS! Vile, they are. VILE. No shame, no taboos, lying, cheating, stealing, petty or low-level criminality ...go google. "Anyway what do you guys think?" HAHA! Well, I dunno, really, haha! "Clearly somethings not right," Her head. "something doesn’t add up." No - NOTHING adds up. This type are non-stop, pathological liars whom lie even when there's no need to ("I scored, got another one over on someone, I'm so clever, hee-hawww, hee-hawwww!") "Unfortunately I will never know the truth, it will always remain ambiguous, controversial." Oh yeah? Say that again, go on. "I’m happier without her now but it still takes the biscuit." It takes the biscuit, covers it in poo, then disguises it with icing-sugar, and makes other people eat it. For laughs. And over-charges them for it. And they get ill. Etc. "The irony is during the years that we were together, I’d always get suspicious about her affiliations with other men but the one man I never considered a threat, might have been the biggest threat of them all." No, SHE was. He was incidental. It if hadn't been him, it'd have been someone else. "Have any of you experienced something similar? Can any of you relate and what do you guys think? I appreciate the feedback." I might well have found myself dragged to those depths had I not out-Narced my ex Sociopath-Narc-Psycho-Borderline-Paranoid genuis of an eejit by tricking him out of my life for-good. So - no. He did prove to be not much greater in status than a scummy street crook type of tramp, though, despite he'd mirrored me and my league quite brilliantly at first. The Armani suit was fine, but the flip-flops with dirty feet didn't quite work. (Joke. Only barely, though.) Oh, and they practically ALL cheat - and not just with one. N-Spaths love building Harems. All Narc-Spaths are prostitutes/gigalos, basically. And they'd sell their own FACE if that's all they had left to gamble or con or sleaze with. They really, really are good at dressing-up and acting normal/decent/classy, though. Until they cease being a*sed and SHOW you their a*se. Which is huuuuuge. Bon Boyage, Exipoo-poos! Ew, though. Just, ew. New thoughts?

Forget all my questions, bar the just interested, nosy ones. I didn't even NEED your input, it was that transparent. Not to you, though. Or not to the degree of No Doubt. In these situations, you need someone who can see the back of your head for you by 'being your mirror'. Seriously, though. If you haven't already, just get a quick walk-in STD. I would. I mean - you DO know where she's been, but - what about this Charlie? (K, I feel sick now.)

Hey...Next, tell me about how you met her and got conned into believing you and she were in a romantic relationship? Bet she seemed GREAT in bed at first. Course. Too much practise. And it's their fave giant hook. (Sicker...)

Here, I've found her brother for you. The piss-take is, "Chris" is so over-arrogant, so proud of being immoral and uncaring towards all other people (zero empathy), he even TELLS his victims what he's doing - SHOWS-OFF his self-considered 'prowess' - AS HE'S DOING IT. He is just basically a mugger who shocks his victims by taking their minds outside of the stratosphere of human decency, which makes them defensless for the time it takes to fleece them. The way they are is SO incredible, SO unbelievable, your mind literally refuses to do just that. (ref. If I had slept with him, I wouldn't tell you anyway.) Enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akox4EwwCKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k52Dafy5XHI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0afR_M4Cnrw (This one contains all the elements, including, the delusion that they're a superior breed to us decents) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH_yIWItjOM I'm trying to think who she'd be....

PPS: Notice how she's fallen further down into debauchery, now having a loose mask, since you dared abandon the permanent silly little girl who treats HERSELF like a piece of meat? Do you see, now, how being with you raised her seeming respectability and sort-of normality, up a good level or two? Narc-Spaths need TWO masks. Theirs. And the one on-legs: you. Without you, the one mask isn't enough. Especially so after the Narc Wound caused by you daring to chuck them in the bin where they've demonstrated for too long they belong. And so they get more and more obvious, more, shocking, offensive, obnoxious, base... more vile. They're hitchhikers, who somehow, during the long journey (featuring them pretending, even in actions and commitments, making it too convincing, to be so like you), SOMEHOW (but you couldn't say when) end up having taken over ownership of your vehicle, now sat in your driver's seat, changing your planned route, no less!...and you're not even in the front passenger seat - you're in the sodding back like a kiddie. Or so they try. Their first Love-Bombing is so intense and massive, it literally puts you under a weird spell. It be your own drugs factory, called, Your Brain, it be. Their bizarre-ness pulls the lever and, voila, you're high as a kite on Honeymoon Heroin....and then, just like Heroin, never managing to match that first hit, but chasing it anyway....then thinking you've got "real them" back....and then not...and then maybe....back-forth...cycle of narc abuse with being financially dented or ruined, hurrah. Time is definitely of the essence with these sinister little clowns. Did she ever screech at you like a Springer guest, btw? Throw stuff (strangely, for a "red mist", only ever YOUR things)? Always throwing histrionics over nothing? Positively AMBUSHING you with emotional or verbal assaults out of thin air? How much did she cost you? She's not got enough power to be seriously harmful. She's a low-functional...secretly living in the fringes of society and decency. But, all the cadging and 'borrowing', never ever mentioned again, let alone offered to pay back..all mounts up. She MUST have that socopathic/psychopathic hypnotic effect (unwitting, hence think everyone is manipulable/controllable because they're so magnificent and Godlike doncha know...N-Spaths are THE MOST ARROGANT beings on the planet (psychos keep everything under tight wraps and don't meed to lose their temper...big dogs don't bark, basically...spaths yap and yap, even get themselves banged-up through bragging)). She must. Otherwise, I can't see how she managed to keep you in the game for so long. Bar that constant, being in-shock at the next insulting, injurious drama/chaos on their ruddy conveybelt and, before you've had a chance to recover, bloody next... Wasn't it just so non-stop relentless?