Marriage issue please help !!! Urgent

Hello. I am 31 years old and have been happily married for 5 years with my wife. We have two beautiful daughter's together. My wife and I met in college my junior year which was her freshman year. We started dating and things got relatively serious pretty fast. By the time graduation came we decided to start a long distance relationship. I was somewhat of a star athlete in school and went on to pursue a professional athletic career. During our long distance relationship I was constantly unfaithful. I was young, immature, and honestly took her for granted. I was her first love and sexual experience. I never thought she would leave me. I was also pretty possessive of her and unsupportive.sometimes verbally abusive I was admittedly a bad boyfriend. I loves her but i was caubht up in thjs new lifestyle. She stuck with me for a year and a half but toward the end of her senior year I guess she had had enough. She never caught me cheating but expressed her suspicion and spoke about how she could not deal with me anymore. I was absolutely heartbroken. I realized what I had lost and begged for her back to no success. We were broken up for three months. During this time I was an absolute mess. Could not sleep, speaking with shrinks, friends, family members everyday. Just n wondering what she was doing. How d she came up with the strength to break up with me and of course jealousy. In any event we saw each other 3 months later and began to talk again and date slowly. During this time I asked her if she had been with anyone while we were broken up and she told me that she came close to v sleeping with a friend one night but stopped it during the act. I was mortified by that thought of her even in that position but I felt pride in knowing she could not go through with it because of me. We started dating again and the rest is history. I did however never truly believe her story. I always felt like something was missing or she wasn't telling me something. I would often ask about details and I could see she was uncomfortable. 7 years later and I would sometime still think about it. About 3 months ago I had just a horrible feeling about it. I asked her again and she broke down crying. She finally admitted that she indeed had slept with someone 4 times and even dated him. For 2 months during our break up. I was heaet broken. Now I know morally I do not have much of a case to be mad at her. I know it seems egotistical and unfair. I know i cheated and she dis not technically But i want to explain that I am aware that I am the problem but it doesn't change how I feel about what happened. I still feel betrayed. I still feel like she cheated. I fel like she should have had the rspect for herself and for our relationship to wait longer than 2 weeks to sleep with someone and begin a relationship after being together 3 years. She was a virgin before me and then throws herself at some man after 2 weeks. Thats not the type of girl i though she was. Thata not who i thought i married. The absolute worst part about this is how I treat her now. I call her a slut, threaten to divorce her constantly. And cries and explains how she was trying to get over me. And how she thought we were toxic. She said he made her feel like she could move on from me but then she realized she couldn't. She wants me to look at the fact that she came back but all I can think about is how she left me and made a decision that she o knew would end any chance of us r ever being together again if I found out. Now I am in a position where I am with the women I love, we have stated a beautiful family together and I'm trying to hold it together but I can't. I have too much rage. I feel like I will never look at her the same. I feel like I have been living a lie for the past 6 years. I feel embarrassed and ashamed. And I feel like I will never get through this. I feel like there is not a situation where I can win here. Either I leave the women I love and lose her and my family. Or live in resent member b and continue to mistreat the women I love and the mother of my children. I need help. I don't want to lose her.I don't want to hurt her anymore. I don't want to lose my family. Please someone tell me how to get through this.

"For 2 months during our break up. I was heaet broken. Now I know morally I do not have much of a case to be mad at her" MUCH of a case? Mate, you have ZERO case! (Mountain out of a molehill, anyone??) Ever heard of dual standards and sense of entitlement? "She wants me to look at the fact that she came back but all I can think about is how she left me and made a decision that she o knew would end any chance of us r ever being together again if I found out." As in - you're allowed but she isn't, and, how dare she be capable of rejecting "the king"?! (Or so you'd like us to believe, mm-hmm.) She didn't JUST come back. She then made manifest her lifelong commitment to you by having not just one, but TWO of your children! You've got NOTHING to be whinging about (except the fact that your ego is riddled with a stubborn virus). What are you REALLY up to? Was the egotistical territorialism and jealousy that powered you into getting back with and marrying her not enough to last all the way to this point? Is this a perverse attempt at creating titillation, a way to get some passionate feeling back? Or is that just a suck-it-and-see, last-ditch side attempt to your primary one to feel JUSTIFIED about the fact you're tempted to stray or actually leave her (and two little innocent, helpless co-victims)? To wit: "Now I am in a position where I am with the women I love" WOMEN, PLURAL? What an interesting typo. Oh, look - here it is AGAIN: "Either I leave the ***women*** I love and lose her and my family" AND AGAIN: "to mistreat the ***women*** I love" You sound like a Grade A Commitmentphobe, still, whom after having given it a quick shot, is trying to get himself fired rather than hand in his cards due to some new catalyst (that has you, under your own radar, leaking the word womEn). Even leaving that typo aside: Who did you meet and when and how far has it been allowed to go? Your "rage" preceded her, bet your a*se. You'd been so over busy with a job, marriage, homelife and two very demanding toddlers that you got nicely distracted and blinkered from it for a while there, enough to pretend it no longer existed or never had. But now things are slowing and quietening down - back into your awareness it's creeping and itching. Here recommenceth your misguided attempt to find another panacea of the utterly wrong type in the utterly wrong places. You need counselling to get this erstwhile virus out of your jello so that it can no longer RUIN YOUR LIFE (and, now, the lives of three other people who never tried to do you any harm). Admit it. Because you have laughably far too littl-sorry, ZERO on her with which to pose as plausible demonisation as to make yourself feel sufficiently justified to go ahead with/continue to stray or even push her permanently away.

Oh, and by the way - to answer your ACTUAL question: 'Yes. You persisting in this direction *will* ruin your carefully crafted public image into the bargain because, no - no-one else with half a braincell will fail to see through to your true agenda, either'.

Whoa ! Thanks for being honest I guess. I guess I should have not given what i percieve to be my true feelings. I felt I had made it clear that I did not think I had the moral ability to feel this way. I understand that I am somewhat (not entirely sorry I didn't push her into a bed with another man 2 weeks after we broke up) for what happened. My call out to this forum was to help me change this counter productive and destructive view of mine on this subject. It is a double standard and I am possesive. I am here asking for help becuase despite knowingnthis, it does not chanfe the way inhurtnor feel. I am asking for advise on how to move forward with my wife without hurting her further. And to your point about my typo, I am not cheating have never cheated or have any desire even at this point to cheat on my wife. Since we have been married I have been completely devoted to her. Before that I was who I was and she knew who I was before we started dating. At some lebvel I feel she was even attracted to it, as she pursued me.I regret it and I might add it is relatively easy to stay faithful when no one wants to sleep with you. So please do not paint this picture of me of some judgmental monster when you are judging me all the same. Once again for yourself soulmate and my much needed and welcome posters. I understand my position and contribution this problem I am having. I am Asking for methods of changing my train of thought on this issue that i have posessed for virtually the past 30 years, so that I can save my family and marriage with the singlular "woman" that I love.

We think what you're inching your way towards embarking on is a bit "Woah!", actually. So that makes us even, doesn't it. Judgementalism ist good (unless you subscribe to the BS of political correctness for its unfair veil proviso-ing, or unless judgementalism is actually OTT as constitutes 'written off'). I'm not writing you off (I'm replying, look), but without normal judgement/disapproval by our wider pack members, this world would be Sodom and Gomorrah by now. This is TOUGH love. You 'ard enuff? "I guess I should have not given what i percieve to be my true feelings." Other way round. You SHOULD have. In the FIRST place. I love the way you try to let yourself off the hook there, with 'perceive' to be. You're a 'sorry IF I upset you', and, 'will TRY to call you next week' merchant, aren't you. No, this is NOT a case of you being entirely ignorant about what a bad and confused way you're in, and why, and how it's detrimenting your otherwise penchant for ever-decent behaviour. Were that the case, your leakages would have ended up positioned FAR deeper down amongst the conscious surface linguistics and between-lines than they were. I didn't even have to look, let alone dig. They sprang up and punched me between the eyes. You know what you're up to, alright. Sure, you realised your pending basis for destroying your life set-up is childishly, tenuously pithy. But that doesn't mean it wasn't worth a bash, just in case, does it. Are you going to get real in order to provide PROOF that your intentions are predominantly honourable and geared predominantly to a win-all end? If so, cease from here on in with the slippery talk like 'what I perceive to be'. A man who KNOWS DEEP DOWN he's wholly innocent doesn't need any such get-out clauses. And neither does he persist in insisting that he has zero control over his more base feelings and urges despite his own best intentions. Intentions are everything: Logic/commmon-sense is logic/common-sense and resultant mindset-disempowerment is resultant mindset-disempowerment. Capiche? Put it this way: for a man who ISN'T already one foot on the thin end of the cheating wedge - or even just mentally (as in, what if...?) - you don't half do a ruddy good impression. Still, look on the bright side: at least I don't agree you're an self-unaware idiot. Now to the truer issue (thanks for the extra subconscious admission, btw): "At some lebvel I feel she was even attracted to it, as she pursued me." So you're trying to recapture her attention back more to the level it used to be by talking and behaving (to her as well as us) LIKE a would-be repeat cheater looking for permission, are you? (Rhetorical q.) That is not the way a clever man does it. If you find your relationship with your woman has slipped down a snake back to a more starting square where no ladders feature - and if you believe that men are pre-ordained to take the lead as includes not just power but taking RESPONSIBILITY for the fact the pack leader is the one who sets the tone, then you will do what men who still love a challenge do: re-commence the wooing programme. Coo. Rocket science. ;-) What say you?

Well what I would say is you have an extraordinary ability to take phrases or words within my paragraphs that are virtually meaningless within the context of my issue and use sofisticated language to try to utilize these words or phrases in an attempt to validate your attacks on my character. When in actuality what I feel you are doing is just displaying your clear high level of education and superior use of the English language as well as exhibiting that you really do not have any reasonable solution to my issue. I am not going to justify my reasoning for coming to this forum for help with you.I do however completely disagree with your notion that intentions are everything. Do you think it was my wifes intention to hurt me when she had this relationship or to move on? Although it may not have been her intention (which I feel you may try to argue somehow in order to further deflect the true "intention" of this post") it still did. Intentions are not always everything as you suggested and the consequences of these intentions do not necessarily always turn out to work in the intended purpose. My intention was to speak about my issue in the hopes that i can receive some constructive advise as to how to move forward without hurting my wife and having unwarranted resentment towards her. I conside in this game of intellectual wits with you. I would appreciate some advise on how to move forward, maybe a game plan. As smart as you are I know you can come up with something useful.

Conceded and advice before you use that against me as well.

Hi it sounds like you are in shock from the news,feel betrayed lied too. It is perfectly normal to feel anger, and injustice,worthless, stuck, shaken, this shows you that you how fragile one's heart can be, as hard as this may be ,it may be a good thing. Can you try and see that may be the case. You want to move on, be happy with your wife. She s not perfect and she explored a place with someone else, when you were not with her,she dd nothing wrong ,she was just trying to move on too.Is it that she lied to you? do you know why she lied? Maybe to was not important enough to go on about,maybe she just wanted you back. She loves you. It is painful to imagine the one you love, chosen one, with someone else. Before this she was yours so to seemed as she was a virgin, that's special for her sure,but too you yes but not so if you were cheating.I know you say you do got have grounds to say anything but you simply feel the way you do. Does she know about the others? yes no? f she does then what you feel now she once did,f not then according to her she is 'living a lie for the past how many years'. This relationship needs help. Counseling will help, you need to express that anger in a safe place, you need to work through it. I suggest you make some space for both of you. Go to counseling alone of she doesn't, do not ignore it, t will fester and build and destroy both of you. The past is gone, focus on today and what you can do ,you wrote here, good, now keep writing, get a note pad and write, go to counseling and talk, think this goes deeper than you think.

1. I'm not attacking your character, I'm attacking your current attitude and behaviour and especially that which you yourself admit you feel at urge to commit. Diff/all the diff. 2. My extraordinary ability is my deeper than normal insight, instincts, intuition, wisdom, experience and theoretical knowledge of human behaviour, plus the fact that I understand how and why there is no such thing as 'virtually meaningless' when it comes to human linguistics. How come Susie likewise picked up on your unreasonable, self-centred attitude? (Or would you, to that, suggest she's my puppet or just another board persona of mine?) You obviously need to re-read your own opening post with a more objective eye and ear (like Susie and I did), and then maybe you'll appreciate how it smacks not only of hypocrisy, but carries a clear undertone of concern about nothing more serious than a gratuitous notion that this sampling of another man of hers all those years passed is somehow reasonable basis for you feeling like your whole marriage is now up for question. Even your threat title supports that view. Marriage ISSUE? URGENT? Pff. Hardly?! There IS no threat. It's all in your head, self-created. You're behaving as if you've found out she slept with someone else when married or the relationship ongoing, only last month! You're also failing to take your own past indiscretions into account as would allow ANYONE of a reasonable disposition to understand and forgive her...INSTANTLY! It's called, I don't have a leg to stand on, and (ref. "She never caught me cheating but expressed her suspicion") I can't blame her because I was behaving like a wholly objectionable, REJECTIONWORTHY idiot at the time. (In fact, all through that OP you called to mind that Far Side strip where a sailor with merely a wooden leg is gesturing to it whilst saying to a sailor with a wooden HEAD, 'Well, that's a very interesting story, but NOW let me tell you how I got THIS!'.) How the hell can you spout such a disingenuous attitude towards how your wife chose to behave in order to cope (with a position you'd forced her into), show that you have the counter-grounds and wherewithal NOT to cast the first stone yet say you might go ahead with casting it ANYWAY, and then complain to me when I point out that only a definite need NOT to instantly understand and forgive her indicates an hidden agenda (and because I can hear subtle proof of your innermost directions of thought)? Secondly, how also can you accuse me of being educated and articulate to whatever higher than average degree (which infers intelligence plus that higher than your own), yet in the very next breath try to claim you're in a position to decide that what I've observed and interpreted on all levels is wrong? Error, Does Not Compute. None of this or my last post is meaning twisting (I have no need). It's just BASIC LOGIC AND COMMONSENSE. Your complaint and argument is I think you'll find the only thing that's illogical here. That factual stance alone needs no twisting, it's up there in black and white. Be honest, you're just smarting because I yelled, 'The emperor isn't wearing any trousers!', either because you were aware you weren't or because you were unaware and now angry at your failure to have thought to pre-block any leakages. The ONLY thing I could be wrong on here is that you were aware. I don't think so (for reasons explained), but I'm willing to give you the benefit (or suspension) of that doubt. Short version: you feeling obligated to completely and instantly understand, empathise with and forgive your wife would be the only natural reaction of a sane and healthy man who was fully aware he was guilty of the exact same crime but to a FAR worse degree on all levels (including greater tenure). You purporting to have an un-fightable urge to condemn her and possibly act negatively-accordingly despite this backdrop, on the other hand, is NOT natural or logical. And when someone isn't making sense it's usually because there are fears or lies in their mix. "Do you think it was my wifes intention to hurt me when she had this relationship or to move on? Although it may not have been her intention (which I feel you may try to argue somehow in order to further deflect the true "intention" of this post") it still did. Intentions are not always everything as you suggested and the consequences of these intentions do not necessarily always turn out to work in the intended purpose." You've completely understood the context of my statement. I was talking about YOUR intentions, not hers - specifically, that if you love someone enough and can understand where they were coming from back then (which, again, you OUGHT to be able), and, because you love them, WANT to forgive them, you don't tend to paint them black in the process of asking for help. In other words, even as you typed your OP you were clearly trying to convince yourself that she didn't DESERVE forgiveness. Again - you called it a marital issue and lent weight to its gravity with your 'urgent!'. Furthermore, if hurting you back then HAD been a consideration of hers, then at least she WAS justified...because you'd been sleeping around on her. Women can sense these things, better believe it, meaning 9 times of out 10 they don't even NEED hard evidence. Well, look: she was right, wasn't she. So there you go, automatic proof. If you agreed instantly understanding and forgiving your wife was a no-brainer, if you so badly WANTED to forgive her, then what the hell do you even need other people's opinions for? Do you need help tying your shoelaces, as well? You don't, do you. I rest my case. Anyway, your wife was at the time just trying to cope. What was YOUR excuse? You didn't have one. So in actual fact, the spouse I'd have expected to have seen coming onto this forum spouting difficulty with forgiveness, would be her. Now, if your mind really can't cope with the above and afore pure and unbridled logic and somehow sees it that I'm just picking on you for the fun(??) of it, then IMO you're beyond help from anyone. Short version: the self-conceded FACT you're aware your resentment is unwarranted is all the mental mechanism you need for ceasing this nonsense and forgiving. Let me repeat that so's you don't miss it: the self-conceded FACT you're aware your resentment is unwarranted is all the mental mechanism you need for ceasing this nonsense and forgiving. "My intention was to speak about my issue in the hopes that i can receive some constructive advise as to how to move forward without hurting my wife and having unwarranted resentment towards her. I conside in this game of intellectual wits with you. I would appreciate some advise on how to move forward, maybe a game plan. As smart as you are I know you can come up with something useful." I *don't* consider this a game, let alone of intellectual wits. Frankly, it's clear by now that I could wipe the floor with you on that score (yawn). And AGAIN that's totally uncooperative and churlish of you to say, given that I JUST *DID* come up with something useful. I said, WOO HER! Wooing needs no game plan, you just woo. If your relationship feels as if its been shunted backwards however many positions/phases, then do what was called for back then. ..Ah, but you didn't, did you. She wooed, including chased, YOU. Now I see why you believe I included no constructive advice. No, it IS constructive if you have any inkling on how to do it. I imagine you must because not only have you by your own claim got to watch *her* do it (back then), but, I suspect it's likewise fair to say, you've read books and articles and seen films on how men traditionally manipulate women the correct and healthy way as encourages them to fall in love with the guy (or your case, fall in love all over again). Correct? So...Bearing in mind you want your marriage improved via yourself feeling better/less resentful toute suite - is wooing her toute suite something you think you could manage? Because - trust me on this: you throwing yourself into romancing her *will* make you feel a whole lot better. Certainly, far faster than sitting there feeling hard-done-by. Assuming the answer's, yes - name something you think would be a good start.

Oh and PS: what's all this Torian, Torian1, Torian2, now Torian3 business all about?

Hi, Torrian. It seems like your relationship needs help drastically fast. :( I have linked to links below that have helped a lot of my friends when they had various marital woes. The first link is mainly directed towards your personal issue at hand. The second link is directed toward other general martial issues I think you would do well to consider giving a read too. I hope this helps. Sincerely, a concerned reader. http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20120501/rebuilding-trust-in-marriage/ http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/couples-parents/

you need to thank your lucky stars every day that she is still with you.