How to get my ex back

hi all, So here's my problem. I broke up with my ex 4 months ago. I did this because I had cheated on her on a drunken night out and I told her so. I didn't ask her to forgive me because I didn't feel I deserved it or was likely to get it. We were together for 5 years and were going to move in together. I didn't hold any hope of getting back together with her until I visited her for her college graduation and we slept together. I asked her then if she could ever take me back and she said not right now. Since then we've talked about what happened alot and iv'e visited her once more 4 a wkend. But after 2 and a half months she hasn't taken me back. Her reasons are many. She doesn't trust me first of all and doesn't want 2 b cheated on again. She doubts my love for her and doubts herself. And she doesn't want to be seen to be easy. 10 weeks of daily convo and reassurance hav so far not worked. And yet she continues to speak 2 me evry day and meet me knowing how I feel. When I asked if she wanted 2 meet sm1 else she said no. And so i'm in this awful situation of uncertainty, much like her in fairness. If it were any1 else i'd move on but she is d only 1 4 me. I realise this problem may have no obvious answer but any guidance or ideas wwould be much appreciated.

Hi one, Didn't ask for forgiveness or for her not to dump you? After five years and being about to move in together? Because you were too busy kicking yourself and assumed she'd say no? That is a HUUUGE assumption to make, you know (it's up to the individual, based on how genuinely regretful the cheater comes across as). I'd have thought anyone in your position would at least TRY? So how come you didn't ass/you/me you'd get a "piss off!" when it came to visiting her? Surely by implication and extrapolation, that's precisely what you'd have expected? I think I've got you sussed. I think you (possibly only subconsciously) picked an act that you a-ssuuuuumed would push her away JUST ENOUGH that you wouldn't have to make the commitments leap to cohabiting couple that you weren't ready to take, and then found that plan scuppered due to having turned the Create Some Distance dial all the way up to 11 to where you and she weren't even any longer bf and gf, let alone quasi-engaged. Correct? Well, it certainly does sound like she wants to remain at that safer-for-her distance for far longer than you bargained for... or maybe even permanently? And here's why... "When I asked if she wanted 2 meet sm1 else she said no." Well, duh? What do you expect her to say? Yes? Well, I suspect that's the truth of it... that she's decided you're a permanent No Go but despite that, [1] you'll do nicely as a stop gap whilst she either looks or stands on the mating ground with an Available sign around her neck, and [2] this way, she can say goodbye and allow the attachment to incrementally lessen via baby steps instead of one exceedingly painful wrench. Were I clueless about these things, I WOULD say, Well then why don't you make some humuogous gesture that would be unignorable in what it says about your wish to get back into the boat, only... you yourself have to face up to the fact of what your having dared to take such a giant, repelling action SAYS about your longer term feelings for this woman. Put it this way: there are the usual risks and games of Russian roulette that a bloke will typically take in order to gain ultimate proof over how a woman feels for him (and he for her) and/or to force the relationship onto the more correct track, and then there is KILLING IT DEAD. That it's not stone cold dead already is more down to HER, and your luck in that regard. So I think, for all your noises about being surprised that your cheating went and killed it, you're playing dumb to yourself and know full well you didn't just shoot it in the leg but CHOPPED ITS HEAD OFF. If you're lifetime serious about a woman being the "only woman in the world for you", you just don't do something that extreme. So take your own giant hint. Not only weren't you ready to move in with her but the REASON you weren't is because you know she's not The One. And all you're doing is the same as her: trying to avoid the inevitable pain one has to go through when a relationship is over. Further, your ego is finding the challenge she now newly represents from her hard-to-get stance, too tempting. Well, if strategies-based challenge is more alluring to you than the woman and relationship you're with/in, it doesn't have scope for lastingness anyway. "Soz", but there you have it. If you're not prepared to make any giant gestures as would PROVE you deem this woman your forever-together soul mate and which would be EASY to make in that true circumstance then, you'll just have to wait until one part of your mind catches up with the programme of the other (the one in actual charge) and then reconsider the possibility that maybe that weird-sounding woman from the forum was right. ...UNLESS you meantime prove me wrong by doing said some sort of huge gesture of regret and lesson forevermore learned, of course? (- *that's* what you call a real challenge ;-)).

SOULMATE thanks 4 ur insightful response. It has def got me thinking. As far as the break up goes, I was in a pretty bad state of self-loathing. I didn't tink I deserved her and didn't want her 2 lose dignity by puttin up with wat I had done. I visited her as a friend and she wanted more at dat moment. I had assumed der was notin left 2 save b4 dis moment but she said she still loved me. I took this as my window 2 restart d relationship but she turned me down. I can't completely refute wat ur sayin about my subconscious and havin doubts bcoz afer all every1 has some measure of doubt. But I can tell u that I looked frwrd 2 livin with her. I was utterly committed. I don't find the 'strategies-based challenge' alluring. I find it nerve-racking and depressing. Truth is iv'e had opportunities 2 c other people just as she has and neither of us hav. Cud it b my drunken mistake was just dat, a mistake? And not a manifestation of some hidden doubt. Grand gestures don't usually work with her, she's not a Romantic. I had a grand gesture in mind not long b4 i cheated and still hav d ring. A last ditch attempt 2 get her back with a proposal seems doomed 2 fail, and its not exactly how I pictured doin it. But at this point i'm willing 2 try anytin. Even if it does end in failure I would view dat as a blessing. I'd prefer d wrenching pain of dat 2 baby steps.

So sorry for the huge delay in re-responding, DOM - this Xmas is mad busy for me! But I've got a brief window so... It's great that you've got over your loathness to see a snout reflected in her mirror every time you look in it whereby you're finally ready to do what needs- nay, begs to be done. But realise this: you lost dignity the minute you did the dreaded deed. So this means you're about to not just make it up to HER in order for HER to eventually forget, but yourself equally for having dropped your (what sounds like normal) moral standards, drink or no drink (because acts like kissing then unzipping your trousers tend to sober one up sharp, regardless). I don't think it WAS a mistake, in other words. No such thing. Rather, I think your conscious mind thinks it was a mistake but your subconscious as was pandering to your fears (let loose by the booze) thought it was a damn good remedy where concerned gaining some breathing/second-thinking space. Still, if you regret it (and - cough! - try NOT to make excuses for yourself) - that's the first hurdle dealt with. Now comes the giant positive extreme (or super-quick succession of mediums that'll add up to the one) to cancel out the negative extreme. What have you got in mind? I agree a proposal is now premature because (think Snakes & Ladders boardgame) you slipped down a ruddy great snake, meaning you're back however many squares, meaning you now have to re-chase and -woo her like CRAZY... like a man truly in love will do. I'd recommend huge persistence in contact - to show her you're not going to give up come rain or shine. I'm talking sorry letters (that's letters, not notes) and flower/gift deliveries and copious phonecall attempts, including telling her everything you've told me (because if *I* can forgive you when I don't even have to because I'm not 'addicted' to you, I'm betting she certainly will at some point). Basically "I cannot, will not, lose you" is as "I cannot, WILL not lose you" ***does***. The pull you back action/actions thereby outweigh the push you away ones. That simple. But you could certainly SHOW her the ring because it would be a way to make her understand WHY you got an attack of super-cold feet to point of (when aided by booze) panicked and acted out. Capiche? So 'hammer' away at her. Even if she tells you to piss right off and even insults the hell out of you - refuse point-blank. Say, 'NO, I will NOT! NEVER! I can't. I love you too much!'. Persistence in the face of numerous seeming hurdles is an action that cannot be argued with. And neither can loving someone despite they claim as convincingly as you like to hate your guts or, her case, to have vowed never to get back into the actual boat with you. Keep me posted.

Thanks so much for your response. I told her about the ring in frustration more than anything. She was surprised and her first instinct was to deny I love her at all. I threw in the towel and gave her some of her things I still had and a photo album I had made of our best times together weeks earlier. I could say I didn't have the heart to throw it out but I guess I was hoping it would affect her. And it did. She contacted me to ask why I had dumped her if I really loved her so much. I thought I was getting somewhere then but she said she felt too pressured to take me back and that things could never be as good as they were if we did. But i'm even more determined and have been reading guides online on how to get your ex back. They all say the same thing. To ignore her for 30 days and present yourself as having moved on. I think i'm probably beyond the point of playing hard to get but I can see where they're coming from. But given she seems to fear I don't love her I'd be worried being distant would only enforce this thought, if I run when things get hard. A fast reply would be really appreciated. Thanks

Have you seen this from her point of view? Cheating on her and ditching her have been massive "I'm not that into you" signs. You can bet if she'd come on this forum telling her story we would all be telling her she's dodged a bullet and to move on. Then you give her the attention she needs to start trusting you again and then when she pushes you away some more to see if you really do care, you get mad and do the one thing that says 'that's it we're through'. Ignoring her will only enhance this message. I agree with Soulmate, you need to get consistent for a change and repetitively show her that you love her and that no-one else could Really take her place. You've crushed whatever trust she had in you and if you really do love her and want her back you are going to have to develop patience and put in the hard work to build that trust back up! Have you told her why you cheated? Not just a 'it ws a mistake', but a genuine reason. Have you been vulnerable with her?

I hav seen it from her point of view. Iv'e agreed wit her dat its hard 4 her. Dat at least I hav certainty, in dat i know i love her and only want her and dat i can trust her. While she doesn't know if she can trust me. From d moment she rejected me i said its okay, i'll wait. I said as long as u'll let me i'm gonna talk 2 u an try an build up ur trust in me. An she didn't reject dis but was careful not 2 encourage me. Iv'e been consistent. But she harshly reminded me we weren't together wen i said it was a shame i wudn't c much of her ovr d holidays. Tbh ive been lookin at online guides an dey all say d same tin. dat bein available and pleading dont work. Dey say 2 stop contact 4 30 days den act as do u've moved on. At dis point i don't want 2 look pathetic

At dis point im worried im pushing her away. She says she feels pressurised. I'd like notin more dan 2 talk 2 her everyday like I hav been but if it's lowering my chances den i'd stop.

I don't think I understand, how long have you been consistent for? Because anything before giving her stuff back Will have been nullified by that action. Words are easy to come by so actions speak so much louder. How many actions have said I love you? Are these websites for people who have cheated on their exs? If I were in her shoes and you ignored me, that would be game over. I'd move on. I personally would suggest you let her come to you, speak when spoken to unless you have some thoughtful important little message for her on a day you know will be tough for her or something to show you are thinking of her, like a goodnight text. Much less pressure and still showing reliability and care. Just a thought.

Iv'e been consistent 4 2 and a half months. Talking 2 her at least once a day, many times for hours. She asked me to visit her 2 weeks ago though saying it wud only b 4 sex. B4 she invited me I had already ordered flowers to be delivered to her. She called me annoyed while I was on my way. It nearly derailed the weekend but I apoligised saying it was meant to be a potted plant for her room and not a huge bouquet. I then did smtin she always hated I didn't. I had never got her cards on occasions saying they were useless. So I made her a Christmas card. She became weary right away. The card and the album made her ask why I had dumped her if I loved her so much. I was in an accepting mood so I told her it was okay that I knew she didn't want me and she could do better. She ignored this repeating her question of why I dumped her if I love her. I said I had never wanted to dump her but had felt compelled. If I didn't think it was her doubting my love that was stopping us getting back together i'd give up. But its how every convo ends. I was sick of having these convo's ovr fbk so I went to her house, which is 1 min away, at 11 at night. She had met me outside it at 10:45 in fairness. SHE DID NOT LIKE THIS. I felt like a total creep after 5 seconds waiting outside and I left. I feel like iv'e hit rock-bottom. I think she just changed her e-mail as i'm no longer getting alerts on my phone which is connected 2 her e-mail after she logged in on it. And she hasn't answered my text.

I agree 100% with Violette, and thought she may be going simply by excellent instincts, I know the psychological facts involved so she's right (thanks, missus :-)). Those 'get your ex back' websites are financially-exploitative nonsense. What they do is encourage you to take actions (i.e. ignoring her for a month) that DELIBERATELY ENGAGE HER EGO via insult that must be argued against and then actually countered (which takes engaging with you). That she still loves you gets completely forgotten and outweighed by her ego's now-childish compulsion not to be the one who got rejected and instead be the reigning rejecter. She convinces herself she still feels her love for you out of self-justification in order to hatch a plan for revenge - specifically, taking you back, waiting until you think the smoke has cleared and theeeeen - BAM! - DUMPED BACK! ("Take THAT, ya basstud!"). This then rouses YOUR ego (whereas the last avenger feels better). Meanwhile the landscape is covered in blots (bad memories of mutual insults). And so the Tweedledum and Tweedledumber battle rally for one-upmanship commences. You end up with an on-off relationship, caught in a game of Tit For Tat revenge until such point as you think you hate each other's guts and reconciliation feels downright impossible. This can take anywhere between 6 months and a YEAR! Who cares? Certainly not the so-called relationship guru owner of the website because all it promised to do FOR A MEATY FEE was (wait for it) get you to get your ex back... KER-CHING-KER-CHING!! Note what it DIDN'T promise: it didn't say, AND KEEP HER/HIM. You try getting your money back. Not a hope in hell - because [1] they adhered to Advertising Standards and fulfilled what was promised and no more, and [2] it's been so long since you bought the product that the seller can claim these latest negative developments of yours are nothing to do with them. Clever, huh? (in a low-down, sh*ttily selfish and greedy way). You insulted the hell out of her by cheating on her. You're now the underdog and there's no way to rise above that level to point of cancelled-out except by working hard for it. GENUINE work - not cheating at it all over again! I TOLD you not to take any refusals nor insults [slap, slap!!!]. Not only did you believe her ego-led blah-blahs but you went and batted back with the petulant returning of the album, etc. You're obviously not quite ready to get her back. You're still operating on temporary egotism, same as her. So which of the two of you is going to be the flippin' adult? Answer: You. That's your job. She's JUSTIFIED for having her ego play private bodyguard. You're not. You're the Do-To, not the Done-To. You're supposed to placate her ego until it goes back to sleep whereupon her heart can get a word in edgeways. Let me analogise that for you just to be certain you've finally got it: If you're best buds with the owner of an exclusive, up-market nightclub (the nightclub being her heart), you don't stand there engaging with the bouncer at the door (her ego), trying to convince her you're a VIP who warrants instant access. You distract her by going, 'OMG, LOOK OVER THERE!!!'. Because Ms Ego is stupid and easily duped - she turns her attention away from you, whereupon you immediately dart through the door and into the heart of the club. You then report the bouncer to the owner who fires her for not having checked with her boss and instead having made a unilateral decision above her remit. Have you really never heard of the expression, 'to kill [her] with kindness'? Wait until you leave Anger and hit Plea Bargaining. Then you'll be ready to do whatever it takes, and SOD your pride. Let her ego calm down - AND yours! - (I'm talking ONE WEEK) so that she can process the fact of you having had a ring to show her and what it means, etc., etc., and then try again...and this time, don't take any more blah-blah-snarky-superior-blahs to heart. "Yes, dear, no, dear, but I still love you so there'. Unless she's deep-down a despot (in which case, what are bothering for?), she'll get bored of that temporary power position and start to want to meet you halfway.

Believe me my ego is non-existent right now. Iv'e gone to the point that i'm prostrating myself to her, completely at her mercy.Basically iv'e told her how I will most likely immigrate now, that I can't be reminded of my mistakes any longer and have to go. I agree these websites are exploitative but i'd say their right that pathetic desperation may not work. The album was not given petulantly but in resignation in the fact that there was no hope left. Thats why I was surprised that she contacted me minutes later asking why I left her. And this was enough to make me want her again. I contacted her today, 'mistake', and we may meet soon for what I called closure. The advice I need now is how to handle this meeting. I plan on letting her speak her mind and tell me why she won't be with me. I like the idea of showing her the ring because to be honest I think she may doubt its existence i.e my love for her. I intend on telling her that I know I can't convince her to be with me and that i'll stop pressuring her but that i'll always want her. I'm worried that if I don't resolve this soon i'm just going to end up damaging myself for good. I can barely muster the energy to get out of bed and the thought of moving on makes it hard to breathe. I can't do anything productive and i'm terrible to be around. This meeting won't occur for at least a couple of days if at all so i'm gonna have to stop talking to her during this time. What do I say at this meeting??? This is my last shot at least for the foreseeable future.

"Believe me my ego is non-existent right now. Iv'e gone to the point that i'm prostrating myself to her, completely at her mercy.Basically iv'e told her how I will most likely immigrate now, that I can't be reminded of my mistakes any longer and have to go. " Oh, for goodness' sake will you calm down and stop being such a drama-queen? :-p "I agree these websites are exploitative but i'd say their right that pathetic desperation may not work." Just because 'pathetic desperation' doesn't work, doesn't mean egotistical bulshiness (like shoving her belongings back to her) *will*. Nobody even suggested pathetic desperation in the first place so GOD ONLY knows where you got THAT idea from? I said, RE-CHASE AND RE-WOO. Or are you suggesting that when first you were trying to get her to become your girlfriend you fell at her feet, tear-sodden hanky in hand and mewled, 'Oh, PLEEEASE be my girlfriend or-or-or...I'll emigrate!!'? No. You didn't, did you. You chased her persistently enough to demonstrate enough ARDOUR to impress her into letting you catch her and then impressed her even more from there with even MORE ARDOUR into letting her let you KEEP her. Repeat. Only this time, chuck in a good couple of measures of sincere regretfulness and increased sensitivity and empathy for her having been your legitimate victim. Oh, and whilst I'm at it: a man in genuine resignation would want to *keep* a photo album, so who do you think you're kidding just because you assumed a certain style in with your acting job. :-p PPS: Closure my arse. She's not fooling me any more than you are.

Oh, and re the meeting: Suggest you have the ring AND the receipt - so that she doesn't think you went and bought a ring just to support what you're trying to convince her of NOW. Other than that - yes - let HER lead (and rant and run you down if she needs to). You wouldn't tick someone off for projectile vomiting all over you if it was your own cooking had given them Salmonella poisoning in the first place so, same rule applies here. "I intend on telling her that I know I can't convince her to be with me and that i'll stop pressuring her but that i'll always want her." No. "Wimp!" It's this: "Say what you like but you're NEVER getting rid of me because despite I c*cked-up majorly, I bloody love you and there's no other woman in this world for me EVER and that is that is THAT!". (Or did your version of Pretty Woman have Richard Gere taking one look upwards at the fire-escape staircase and yelling to Julia, 'Um.....listen, I DO love you but I love my fear of heights even more... SEE YA!'? :-p) "I'm worried that if I don't resolve this soon i'm just going to end up damaging myself for good. I can barely muster the energy to get out of bed and the thought of moving on makes it hard to breathe. I can't do anything productive and i'm terrible to be around." Aw, shaddap. "What do I say at this meeting??? " Hi, sweetheart. (Next question?)

Seriously, though: do NOT, WHATEVER you do, give her this same feeling-sorry-for-yourself nonsense as you've just given me. Do you know how INFURIATING it is to legitimately through no fault of your own be someone's victim and have to sit there listening to THEM sobbing like THEY'RE the victim? It makes you want to STAB them!!! She wants justice. Be a man and take what's coming...what you by your own hand deserve. Her wrath and fury (puke). A man who can sit opposite you saying, 'I know. You're right. I'm a giant tw*t and I've learned my lesson' and *mean* it and *without* any evidence of self-pity, is very attractive. This: "mew-mew-mew-mew, me-me-MEEE", is not.

Look i'm 22. And all people say to me is to get perspective. Btw i don't wan't 2. This woman is the one and only. I wan't 2 marry and have kids with her, despite how silly that may sound given my age. I love the idea of saying i'll never love anyone else but she's so damn pragmatic and sensible she'd likely say something like, 'your so young you'll find someone else and not make the same mistake'. I don't know how to get past her cold logic except to let her speak and exhaust her pre-prepared answers. Self-pity was my default for months so anything else is going to be hard. Being attractive, that's the question. It's very easy to go from cool and debonair to desperate once you have been told no. If you have any great lines aside from the general demeanor to take it would be much appreciated. Thanks, Duke

If only I could sing like Georges Brassens there would be no problem. Thanks so much for taking the time out during this busy period.

The ring was given by my mother who is divorced from my dad so no receipt possible.

(Who's Georges Brassens? Anyway, it's not a problem my taking the time because we had our Xmas Day on Xmas Eve because son was going to his Father's for Xmas Day onwards and then yesterday hubbie flew to his home country for custody time with his daughter, meaning for the next week I'm freeeeeeeeeeee! LOL.) Who CARES what other people (with not enough endurance) say? Are THEY volunteering to be your wife instead, are they? Case closed. "Look i'm 22. And all people say to me is to get perspective. Btw i don't wan't 2. This woman is the one and only. I wan't 2 marry and have kids with her, despite how silly that may sound given my age. I love the idea of saying i'll never love anyone else but she's so damn pragmatic and sensible she'd likely say something like, 'your so young you'll find someone else and not make the same mistake'. I don't know how to get past her cold logic except to let her speak and exhaust her pre-prepared answers. Self-pity was my default for months so anything else is going to be hard. Being attractive, that's the question. It's very easy to go from cool and debonair to desperate once you have been told no. If you have any great lines aside from the general demeanor to take it would be much appreciated." Yes. And then WHEN she's finished (puking under the veil of Spockiness), it's this: 'Darling, your logic is wasted on me and this whole situation because I didn't fall in love with you to point of wanting to spend the rest of my life with you using the logical side of my mind, did I. So logic has no place here, other than having given me its Green light and blessing. And whilst I'm at it - my heart had no input to my recent glaring mistake and seeming contradiction, either. That was down to my wayward fear centre (which is now firmly back in its box, forever and ever Amen)'. She could argue using a jelly and ice-cream-slathered Armadillo if she really wanted to but if you won't take 'No' for an answer then unless she wants to tell you to eff off forever (doubtful) she's going to be left with nothing but 'Yes' or 'I don't know, let me think about it some more', isn't she. Nappies used to be your default as well, but I'm presuming you nowadays use the big boy's toilet? See how it's impossible to argue with me? Take a tip, Sherlock! It's called Truth. And NO-ONE can argue against truth and sit thereafter comfortably with their so-called victory. No-one. Because the victory goes round and round their brain yelling, 'YOU IDIOT!' each time it passes their frontal lobe (and often for the rest of one's life). ...Well, no-one with a conscience, anyway. So if she turns out not to have a conscience (or the truth is your action had merely secretly given her the excuse to bail out without looking the baddie) - what have you lost? And equally, if what you say fails to ring true because it's NOT (your) truth - what have you lost? Answer: nothing. Or rather, getting hit with a bullet. Win/Win. PS: If it's an heirloom then you don't even need a receipt because obviously the fact of it having pre-existed this current point is a concrete given. Also, the fact it's such a precious heirloom trumps a shop-bought version, so that's excellent. You're welcome, Her Royal Majesty.

I asked her yesterday if she would meet me so I could get some closure. Yes maybe I don't really intend on giving up but it's the only way that she'll agree to meet me. And I don't want to keep trying to the point of frustration whereby we can no longer speak to each other at all. She said she couldn't meet. I asked why not, that she's moved on so why would it be difficult to help me move on. She said she couldn't do it. That it was all to much. She got back to me today to tell me she'll meet me for coffee Monday. I'm going to try to follow what you've said here to-the-letter. I see now that this is the only way to go. Iv'e dragged this out as much as she has because i'm afraid that the answer isn't 'I can't trust you' but 'I don't love you and I never really did'. But if that's the case it's better I know it so I can move on. I'll let her speak and then have my say. I'll show her the ring because it demonstrates the points you spoke of. That she is the woman I love and my one and only, and that my mistake was made out of fear brought on by a substantial life choice. I can't just move on. I can't abandon all the plans I have for us. Oh and not sure if I mentioned this but the 'mistake' wasn't consummated if you take my meaning. It took all of 10 seconds for me to 'lose my nerve' and promptly leave feeling worse than Hitler. I told her this before and she asked if she was supposed to feel sorry for me. I said it was evidence that, at heart, I only love her. I think it was the rebound that hurt her the most. Only 2 weeks after, my giddy new housemate jumped into bed with me. Given I was wallowing in a pool of self-hate I didn't say no and even relished being with someone who thought I was anything other than a bad person. But when she found out she took this as a sign that I had moved on and it really hurt her. Saying it was a rebound doesn't seem to help. That I was afraid of being alone and feeling bad about myself. I have so many regrets. I hope to God this goes well. I'll keep you posted with any further developments

Well, I doubt she believes your reason is for gaining closure, anyway. Plus if it's 'all too much' then all she's doing is revealing she's still in love with you hence is still upsettable. No - DON'T follow what I said to the letter. Use it only to keep you fixed in an ATTITUDE. You want everything to flow naturally rather than stuntedly because of some script and screenplay you're trying to follow in your head. If half your mind is looking inside itself then you'll likewise only be in the room by 50%..and that is going to show (and offend). Here's the reality: she actually CAN'T trust you. Because you smashed that trust. So now you have to set about rebuilding it. Meanwhile, all that's available to trust is that you definitely-definitely-DEFINITELY want her back SO THAT you can set about rebuilding said smashed/dead portion of trust. That she still loves you is a given because that tap doesn't have any hand control mechanism, meaning the 'water' ceases flowing in its own sweet time - which takes WAY longer than this. So she still loves you but probably wishes she didn't. So all you have to do is make her glad she still does. Berbom. And to do that, all you have to do is convince her of the truth, which is that you'd rather gouge out your own eyeballs than ever-ever-ever-EVER do the dirty on her again, Amen. Giving her your one-and-only mum's ring (even just to look after if she won't take it as a proposal) would be such a nigh-on guarantee because it would show you that SHE was your one-and-only. She's dragged it out because this is the kind of guarantee she's been wanting and waiting to see. I didn't know the the cheating act didn't get followed through; you should have mentioned that before now. Still... cheating happens in the head before it gets made manifest in the environment so, comme ci/comme ca as far as she's concerned. You still cheated on her. But on a scale of cheating basstuds between 1 and 10, at least you're only a 3. Not that that's any comfort because... "I told her this before and she asked if she was supposed to feel sorry for me. I said it was evidence that, at heart, I only love her." Yes, but it's NOT just evidence that you only love her. It's also evidence that you don't/didn't/were blocked against loving her TEN OUT OF TEN. Capiche? You need to get through to her that the reason you even went partway there was the fear block, not the lack of love/desire for her. Fear temporarily blocked and got the better of love. Diff/all the diff. And now the fear's gone for good. Major diff/all the diff. Takes getting your hand seriously burned to never again put your hand onto the live cooker ring, let alone want to, doesn't it. So that's a positive, anyway. Look - here's the simple rub: Some blokes cheat and *don't* see it that they've committed the worst possible relationship crime known to man (aside from murdering her) as calls for punishing themselves along with the punishment he allows her to mete out and willingly, acceptingly takes in whatever quantity and duration befits the crime. And some blokes do (you). Those blokes DO punish themselves, DO invite her punishment, AND do literally absolutely everything in their power to make the woman feel that she's not just safe to choose to get back into the boat with him but (note!) even safer than she was originally. They're the ones who prove they made a genuine mistake. They're the ones whom are forgiveable. Theirs is the crime that- not gets forgotten but gets covered by layer upon layer of positivity until the original crime CAN'T be seen any more. Berbom. Not rocket science. If you really, really want her back, you'll get her. That's it. Because that's naturally how you win a woman's heart to begin with. You consistently, never-endingly blow hot air COUPLED WITH hot actions as first melt her ice armour then heat up her heart (and expands her trust like a souffle) until, WHOOPS!, her clothes fall off and 1 or 2 years later, WHOOPS!, her left-hand fourth finger gets proffered, and however many years later she *doesn't*, whoops!, file for a divorce. Anyway, if this woman herself *truly, genuinely& loves you (enough for a lifetime) then I have a cast-iron 100% guaranteed way of you getting her back- sorry, getting her to agree to getting back on the road to TogetherForeverVille. Wanna hear it?

Eh yes I wanna hear it

How much? I don't hear "urr!"-style determination. DO YOU WANNA HEAR IT?

YES I WAN'T TO HEAR IT

(Better!) GIVE HER A PRINT-OUT OF THIS ENTIRE THREAD. £1.50, please. :-)

I'm not sure. That might look a little pre-planned no? And it makes it about me again doesn't it. I look like i'm looking for sympathy then if I hand her 10 sheets of me pouring my heart out, as well as lots of personal info to (no offense, your feedback is very much appreciated) strangers.

"That might look a little pre-planned no? " Excuse-me, matey, but we women are *not* stupid, thanks very er-duh-er-duuh much! We know the difference when we hear it between true sentiments and ollocks. Even better than you lot, actually. Some might PRETEND they don't due to wanting to fulfil some or other 'more important' agenda at the time but...we know. OHHH, WE KNOOOOW. You kid no-one, you lot. :-p And, no, the object is NOT to gain sympathy but to prove to her irrefutably just how much you regret your mistake and equally how badly you want her to summon all her human kindness and feelings for you enough to let you start making it up to her. This bit especially is inarguable because you've got a big ego, you have, so unless the disclosure were real your pride wouldn't have DARED let you post it: "I'm worried that if I don't resolve this soon i'm just going to end up damaging myself for good. I can barely muster the energy to get out of bed and the thought of moving on makes it hard to breathe. I can't do anything productive and i'm terrible to be around." There's no arguing with hard to breathe and almost incapable of getting out of bed and, once you are out of bed, being even more useless than a bad-hair-day, and feeling like you might psychologically DIE if the relationship ends. Oh, aye, I've been examining you under a microscope, Sonny Jim. This whole way through. ;-) *I* believe you. If she has any sense, so will she. But for god's sake stop clucking as a way to protect your silly pride and print the damn thing out already. Including, now, THESE posts. Anyway, I'm not a stranger. I'm a human lie detector. YOU 'ARD ENUFF OR ARE YOU *NOT* 'ARD ENOUGH? YOU WANT HER ENUFF OR DO YOU *NOT* WANT HER ENUFF? *Actions!!!!!* Let's see you do 'the king of'.

Okay i'll do it.

GOOD! Know your actual root-cause problem? You want her/it *too* much! Know what that does to a bloke? This: "Buuuck-buck-buck-buck-buuuck!" And this: "Duuuuh, I'm an idthiot". Calm down. You control-freaky blokes are *not* masters of your own destiny. Fate is. Know thy place and start learning to trust it, i.e. make leaps of faith. ...Like you're telling me you've just decided to do. ************** PS: Dear girlfriend. YES, he's a prat-in-a-hat but, sorry to have to report - THEY *ALL* ARE (*and* they know it despite their claims to the contrary!). It's simply a primitive, evolutionary design fault (their giant egos). Your mission as a woman is to bag yourself the *least* idiotic soulmate from your particular gene-pool bunch... one who has a good, healthy heart hence enough desire to avoid avoidable mistakes or learn from unavoidable mistakes (like ones made during Duh-brain mode) and basically just do his utmost best to always be your rock. Ol' dukey here *does* have a good heart. That's it. That's all that matters. And it's not the crime, it's the time.

PS: Let me know how it goes! PPS: I'm *not* actually gender biased. I think women are twats half the time as well. :-p Basically PEOPLE. LOL

I'm losing my nerve. Starting to think being friends is better than nothing. This is the trap iv'e fell into repeatedly over the last 2 months. I'm in need of some reassurance that this is the right thing to do vis a vis bullishly insisting I should be with her. The thought of her rejection is knotting my stomach and I don't know how to keep going. She may well think this meeting is to help me gain closure so her first words may be 'I don't want to be with you'. How do I recover from that? Ask 'why'? Then she says 'for all the reasons we've gone through'. How do I stop myself from throwing myself at her feet in tears begging her to take me back? What if she already sees that I'm repentant and genuinely want her alone. What if she believes I was going to propose. Whenever iv'e caught her of guard with a sign that I love her and regret what I did the best reaction I can hope for is 'I don't know what to say' or 'I can't do this right now it's all to much'. What if this isn't disbelief but awkward pity. This is the only woman that I've genuinely loved and who has loved me. If she believes I'm repentant and still doesn't let us try again what can that mean other than she doesn't value the relationship. Maybe single life has shown her she can do better and that that she never really loved me at all. How do I recover from that? Immigration isn't a threat but a likelihood because of circumstance. If she doesn't let us try again I will have to go. There's so much counting on what she will try her best to make a rushed meeting. And how am I supposed to incorporate this thread into the convo? It's a pretty meaty document. Do I sit quietly for 5 mins while she reads it?

I messaged her to confirm a time and place for tomorrow. It doesn't look good. She wants to meet in a tiny coffee shop meters from her house. She knows I won't be able to speak here and that the walk home will take all of 30 seconds. I told her I wouldn't go here and she asked why we needed to meet. That I had already broke it off with her and that she wasn't going to change her stance on getting back together with me. So she's seen right through the 'closure' excuse to meet. That means she doesn't want to have to reject me once again and see me hurt. She said she can't do this anymore but is going to meet anyway as I said it was important to me. I'm not sure about showing her this thread anymore. Her reaction will be disgust that I talked about us to strangers and she won't read it. I might give it 2 her as a last resort as she walks away.

You need to find out one way or the other. She's been giving you VAGUE. You can understand why she has because I've explained it. Yes, it MIGHT be that she's sampled a life without you in it and preferred it OR prefers feeling safe (for now) after having gained a greater emotional distance. You might even have to let her have LONGER to recover. That's her problem. Yours is just doing your bit - which is your UTMOST. Leave the rest to fate. Example, it could be that your action was you, unbeknownst to you, setting yourself free in order to be ready & available to your TRUE soulmate who's 'on her way' towards where your paths intersect, as we speak. Or it might be that you set you and she a TEST. (As you say, time is of the essence so I imagine you'd NEED a test toute suite, wouldn't you...despite yours went completely over-the-top.) You don't ever know in life. Not until you've tried PROPERLY. So unless you bite the bullet and do your utmost, you'll never know whether it was truly the relationship having come to its natural (albeit messy) end or because looking back you failed at the time to fight hard enough to make things so. Do your utmost and regrette rien. Why won't you be able to speak just because it's a tiny coffee shop? What, you'd rather lose the woman you believe to be the love of your life, the woman you're meant to marry and have babies with, just because other customers/staff - people who mean nothing to you and whose faces you might never see again - might hear you declaring your huge regret and undying love? Who gives a SH*T what they think?! Stop wobbling and fix those round-objects on more firmly. Again, you believe her blah-blahs too easily, that's your trouble. The action (meeting you) says opposite. "That I had already broke it off with her and that she wasn't going to change her stance on getting back together with me. So she's seen right through the 'closure' excuse to meet. That means she doesn't want to have to reject me once again and see me hurt." If you were her and you'd decided you were done and dusted with her and the relationship, would YOU take the effort to go meet your **ex** and hear her out just because she said she thought you owed her the ability gain closure? Pff! Hardly! YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO ARGUE WITH HER. She's just making you sweat for it, that's all. So would I. In fact, I'd want to see you "LUFF YOU SO MUCH I CHOP OFF MY ARRRM!" like some desperately impassioned Arab. Actions trump words (here, you're a blokie, YOU should know that?! :-p) Action: Agreeing to meet = Still attached and interested. Action: Embarrassing venue = Wants both to punish you and see proof by making you have to cringe and sweat. Action: CLOSE TO HER HOUSES = Bedroom (her bedroom - where she feels safest) nearby if required. Take the print-out and play it by ear. At least it's ready if you need it. AND, by the way - if it turns out (yuh, right) that you and she are over, meaning you'll never see her again after tomorrow, then what do YOU care if she leaves you forever-amen aware you (thought her important enough to have) talked to strangers about your relationship and how to fix it? That's a male concern, anyway, talking to others about your so-called private stuff. Women do it all the bloody time (er, hello?..just look around this forum!). It's called Mental Intimacy and Communication/Pack Cooperation, specifically Reality-Checking/Feedbacking. She's probably been on some other forum telling an entirely different crowd of strangers about it all, I shouldn't wonder. No such thing as strangers, anyway. It's a myth. Somewhere down those lines, your great-great-great-great-great-great-great......grandfather was my great-great-great-etc's grandfather's brother. (Where's my bloody Christmas present? :-p) Stop wobbling. Nerves are a good thing. If you weren't sh*tting yourself I'd think there was something seriously wrong with you. And so would she! So shake and quake as much as you like.

We had our meeting. It was a little more light-hearted than I would have liked.She tried to avoid serious discussion and changed the subject alot. I told her that I didn't think she was clear on why I cheated or why I broke up with her. So I explained how I got cold feet at the prospect of marriage and that I had a rebound because I didn't think I deserved her and so had accepted we wouldn't get back together. She seemed not to believe me. I showed her the ring to which she begged me to put it away. I did. She said that my rebound had forced her to move on quickly. That she enjoyed being single. And that she never wanted to get married ever. She's been cheated on several times before and now doesn't trusts any men. She hasn't been with anyone else but seems to have completely moved on. She told me that she had kissed other men but hadn't slept with them because she's afraid to (I was her only one). I told her that in spite of this I couldn't give up and couldn't move on. She said to give it time, that I would. If I had told her I had cheated and begged her forgiveness in the first place she would have stayed with me. If I hadn't quickly rebounded she wouldn't have moved on. That's what she told me. I tried to give her this thread as I walked her home. She wouldn't take it. I said I'd e-mail it to her. She asked me not to but I have. I said when she reads it she'll no I'm repentant and there won't be any doubt over that. Then I can know if she doesn't want me because she simply doesn't want me. She can be really insensitive. When I asked if we could take her dog for a walk and talk some more she said I could take the dog for a walk on my own! Neither of us know where we'll be in 6 months. She said she's happy she no longer has to factor me into her decision making now. I told her she's my number one priority and that being with her is most important. I told her that i'll most likely be abroad in 6 months and she said she couldn't do a long distance relationship anymore. She said we needed boundaries so I could move on. So she said she'll only respond to me every second time I contact her! What the **** do I do now?

(She doesn't half talk sh*t. Shows me she's still in ego over-protective mode.) What you 'do now' is wait for it to sink in. This isn't, after all, you trying to boil a kettle. It will. :-) And I can see it will because she contradicted herself all over the shop (- in her case, given it was a coffee shop - literally!). I thought the 'I'll respond to you only every second time you contact me' bit was particularly hilarious...I had a good laugh at that one. In fact, I'm still chuckling! Sorry, I know it's not a laughing matter but.. she's so transparent I can even see what she had for breakfast! I didn't know she'd been cheated on twice before, though. That means this particular kettle is going to take longer than the average to heat back up and see sense ("aw, bum"). I'm not talking months though. Probably weeks. Good. You've done your bit and done it properly (tick!). Now relax and try to enjoy yourself. This could possibly be your last ever (ever, EVER, ever) period as a singleton! :-o

I think your being highly optimistic here. She wants to move on. She says she enjoys being independent. I e-mailed her the thread and asked her to read it. She said she 'didn't know' so I said it couldn't do any harm, that then she'd know for sure how I feel about her. Okay when I asked her during our meeting whether she believed me she said I could just be saying all this stuff. Yeah sounds good right, as though she cares. When I asked how she could move on so fast and stop caring she said she still did care about me and that was why she agreed to meet. Sounds awfully platonic. She made it clear she enjoyed single life before. When I visited her the second time round (just for sex) she wanted to make it clear the flowers weren't welcome. So she told me how she was missing sex because she was dancing with strange men and then showed me messages she'd gotten on tinder! You might say she's overcompensating or it could be she has actually moved on! You must know something that I don't. I mean I appreciate the positivity but I just don't see how I can be positive right now. Now my thinking is that maybe she'll try other men and find that what, 'I was an amazing lover!', unlikely. Or that other men are bastuds. Maybe I'm looking at her with rose-tinted glasses on but I can't imagine any man wanting to treat her badly, she's just to beautiful and kind. Likely she won't go out and have one-night stands but wait for a man she's sure will be faithful and won't hurt her. When that happens I'm f*cked. I think she's got it into her head that everyone else is hopeless and the only person she can trust is herself. She's been cheated on several times now and I wasn't supposed to cheat as well she says. Shes talking like a child. That because there was one mistake everything's ruined. I don't know if she's read the thread she hasn't got back to me. She isn't working today and has had it for two hours. The clock is ticking as I really do need to leave if we don't move in together. If that happens what hope is there left. I could be in Dubai for Christ's sake!

It's getting to me that she hasn't contacted me about this thread. Iv'e text her and fbk'd her, not referencing the thread and although she saw my messages she hasn't responded. I don't know whether I should try calling her to see what she thought. Either it got to her and she's trying to put distance between us or she's feeling bad and is trying not to encourage me with contact. Do I wait for her to come to me. That doesn't usually work. Do I let it sink in or will that just be time for her to put the defences up again?

"Shes talking like a child. That because there was one mistake everything's ruined." WTF?! Yeah, but WHAT a 'mistake'!!! I'm not an optimist, let alone 'highly', but a realist who's seen this too many times before. Whenever the transgressor has *failed* to get his ex back it's because he wants forgiveness and normal service resumed now-now-NOW - "MacAmendments & Deliverance" with fries and effing milkshake on the side - rather than employ the emotional intelligence to realise gaining *genuine* success is a long-haul exercise demanding patience as well as empathy over just how utterly TRAUMATISED his actions rendered his poor ex. Maybe you're too young, too inexperienced and too over-entitled to really appreciate what being her feels like since you insulted the hell out of her core being? You didn't just forget your anniversary, you know. You stabbed her through the heart and mind. As for the relationship? It's over. All you have now at your disposal is cultivating a NEW one with her. Even merely catching your fiance CHATTING UP another woman is a universal deal-breaker amongst women with self-regard and -respect, you know. Maybe you don't know. You're certainly right now doing a good impression of cluelessness. To wit: ""I don't know if she's read the thread she hasn't got back to me. She isn't working today and has had it for two hours." "It's getting to me that she hasn't contacted me about this thread." Two hours? One day? WTF?! If you're not prepared to run the gauntlet of thorns because you don't believe the princess in the castle ahead of it is worth that hardship beyond five piddly minutes then you're not worth the princess. Takes a prince to recognise a princess. And the way she's behaving, she, at least, is proving to me that princess SHE IS! You? Despite your earlier claimed sentiments you seemingly don't even understand (or pretend not to) why she's so terrified of getting back into the love boat with you! Are you bonkers?! How many nights do you think she laid there crying hysterically non-stop until her eyes disappeared into slits and her face puffed up like a balloon whereby anyone looking at her would have presumed she'd just emerged from a near-fatal car-crash? No, she does *NOT* trust herself! She picked what she thought was finally a good'un for-life and THEN look...! She no longer trusts her own ruddy perceptions, let alone judgement, let alone you! She, laddie, no longer knows which way is up, down, left or right, never MIND whether she could dare give you an opportunity to potentially devastate her world all over again! And there's you basically crying, 'Hurry up!'? What do you EXPECT her to now be doing or saying? Use your noddle! If she'd been the one to dare cheat on you, she would have ceased to even exist LONG before as late as today and you know it! If you were prepared to go at this with requisite loving persistence and patience you would stand to gain becoming a *GUARANTEE PERSONIFIED* against her being hurt-able (your case, ever again) than ANY unknown, untested male stranger. (Noddle. Use it.) As for this? "The clock is ticking as I really do need to leave if we don't move in together. If that happens what hope is there left. I could be in Dubai for Christ's sake!" Get rid! This is no excuse for lack of patience. IT'S CALLED A PLANE TICKET. Oh, oh, oh, what - this is *agony* for you, is it? Yeah, well, now you know how SHE feels. Now leave her alone for five bloody minutes to chew, swallow and digest instead of trying to foie gras her. The more you try to harry her the more you'll convince her you're not genuinely sorry and resolved to change whatever weaknesses led you to committing the relationship crime in the first place. The only goose around here is you. Go for a run or something. Get that brain-clouding angst out of your system. (Thank god men aren't the ones who have to endure pregnancy and childbirth. We'd all have died out by now! :-p)

After leaving loads of messages she answered about the thread and we talked for hours. She was angry and I think felt pressured and guilty. She thought your advice was all wrong. That you were encouraging me when I had no hope of getting her back and didn't like your persistence advice. She accused me of not having listened to her. She said she wanted to stay friends but needed boundaries and space first so I could move on. When I asked whether it was trust or love that was stopping her she wouldn't answer. She later said the reason was trust. She told me that she had a motive for inviting me to visit her. She wanted to make herself feel better by making me want her. She wanted to prove she was better than the rebound. She tried to say she never knew that I had feelings but later accepted that she did. I had thought it was spontaneous but she made it clear that I was a means to an end. She even went so far to ask whether it was wrong to want something familiar. I told her exactly what I thought. That I couldn't judge her because she was hurt but that I never had her down as the insecure type, and that if the roles were reversed I couldn't have done the same to her. She said she could never have cheated. I asked her what was the point in telling me this. Was it the case that she simply had stopped caring for me which allowed her to use me. She asked was it so bad to crave attention of the person who hurt her and get carried away? I asked her how she could turn off her feelings. She said she had no choice but to shut down, that she had no protection in the wake of my cheating. I told her I couldn't judge her and that with this thread she knows everything now and can have no doubts about me and my intentions and that maybe she should take that in. She says she won't ever forget what I did and won't trust anyone again. She makes it clear that she's moved on. But I want her to tell me she doesn't love me, not that she can't trust me or can't be in a relationship because she can't be hurt again. What she said hurt. What I thought was her missing me was all about her. But how can I judge her actions. She was betrayed by the only person she loved. I finally told her that I wasn't some lad who cheated for the hell of it or wants to get her back just because. But that Iv'e loved her for five years and will continue to love her. Right now I'm going to give her space.

I never professed to take a rushed approach or to want service resumed. I told her from the very beginning over 2 months ago that I didn't want any promises from her, no facebook relationship updates. I just wanted her to consider us getting back together. To toy with the idea, get used to it and let me take her out occasionally. I wanted her to dip her toes and see if she could begin to trust me again. Granted twice in these 2 months I pushed the question of how she felt and both times I took the rejection with humility not petulant outrage. I'm not just disappointed that she won't be with me but that I can't now repair the damage I did. The fact Iv'e been completely honest and laid out all my feelings and regrets doesn't make me feel any less responsible for the outcome.

"She thought your advice was all wrong. That you were encouraging me when I had no hope of getting her back and didn't like your persistence advice." Tough tittie. She's demonstrated beyond refute that not even SHE knows her emotional arse from her emotional elbow so I'm not interested in mere words, particularly ones spouted in DefCon, and she cannot possibly deny her run of ACTIONS. So if she doesn't like 'encouragement' she should cut the encouraging crap, shouldn't she, like wanting to remain (cough!) friends and (cough!) agreeing to give you the time of day in the first place at that cafe and (cough!) saying she'll take contact and trying to water the meaning in that invitation down with 'every other email' (:-D!!!). She should hear me gaffawing right now. Still, a common enemy is always an instant bonder so why don't you (not now - later) pretend you loath my guts and invite her into a bitching session? Stranger things have worked. Unless you were canny enough to cut out the URL at the top and bottom of your print-outs, she's probably reading this as we speak ("He-LOOOO, fake!"). If you both only knew how many times I've heard people let their mouths box them into corners they then later down the line have to pay the toll fee of serious egg-on-face to get out of, with statements that begin, 'Never, never, never, NEVER...!'. If in reaction to your request to meet the other day, she'd come back with 'EFF OFF, YOU BEEP, BEEPING BEEP-BEEP OR I'LL CALL THE POLICE AND TELL THEM YOU'RE HARRASSING ME!' or better yet, just put the phone instantly down on you / not responded whatsoever, etcetera - THEN I'd believe her. COURSE she wants you to believe all hope's gone. She wants you to SUFFER. Angry? You don't know the half of it! Trouble is: "talked for hours". Oh, dear - rumbled again, missus. Anyway, for now, like you've finally realised is key: stop poking the monster and then acting all surprised when all you keep getting is a series of roars and huge paw-slaps across your chops. (So many people who believe their own in-the-moment negative emotional ramblings, so little time... LOL)