His family have turned against me

Hello guys, I appreciate you taking the time to read this. I'm married five years now and I always had a very good relationship with my inlaws until a year ago. My husband was turning 40 so I decided to organise him a surprise party, his parents couldn't attend as they had a vacation planned. However the rest of the family had RSVP'D. I had been in contact with his sibling leading throughout the whole process and keeping her up to date and so on. so on to the day of the party she stops responding to my messages and I get a hunch that she isn't going to attend, which I was upset about as he only has two siblings and as his parents couldn't be there I wanted to make sure at least his siblings were. Now on to the party, she didn't show up, nor did she get in touch with an expanation. My husband asked why she wasn't there and I had no answers and he was hurt. Turns out she decided to have a night out with her friends and didn't think to let me know. So my husband was mad at her so he got in touch asking why she did that and she was real rude, saying she didn't want to go to some lame party and so on. She started calling us both some names and my husband told her off. When his parents came back they just stopped talking to us, as she is the only girl and they always side with her. Anyways my husband tried to reach out to his parents and they didn't want to know. They went a year without speaking to either of us and not seeing the kids. Within that time I lost my father and my sister in an accident and even then they didn't get in touch which really hurt me so much. My husband has a son from a previous relationship and his family don't speak to the mother of his child and have never liked her, they didn't even speak to her when my husband was in a relationship with her but now they got in touch with her and have her over at their house all ur time and she attends family events and so on. This woman has some more children who my inlaws had never met and now they are having her other kids over staying at their house and buying them at Christmas but never bought our children which really hurt us. My husbands grandfather is quite ill so recently whilst visiting his grandad he bumped into his dad, they exchanged some pleasantries and that set the ball rolling for them all to patch things up. My husband has since patched things up but hasn't confronted them about leaving our kids out, getting close to his ex just to hurt him and so on. He wants me to have a relationship with them but they have hurt me so much that I'm not willing to unless they admit they were wrong and apologise. They have said they won't do this as they are stubborn and my husband and just accepted that. I've asked him is he not going to confront them on how much hurt they caused and try talking about it in order to move on and he has said he doesn't want to fall out again, which I understand but I feel it's showing no loyalty to me and our kids and just letting them walk all over us. I can honestly say I have never said a harsh word to any of them and showed them nothing but respect so their behaviour is really infair. Can anyone offer any advice and tell me do they think I'm being unreason in any way? Thanks for taking the time to read this.

You are not being unreasonable at all! All you did was arrange a birthday party! You have done nothing wrong, dont ever doubt yourself on this :) I don't quite understand why your sister in law acted the way she did, it sounds very immature of her, is she quite young? I'm sure when its her brithday she gets treated the way anyone should, so why is it lame for your husband to have a 40 th birthday party? When she stopped commincating with you about the arrangements, if she had problem she should have just said so. Not let the party go ahead and not attend and then be rude about it. My only guess is that your inlaws were unable to attend and she/they didn't like that? Dispite them choosing to be away around that time. Maybe she thought the party should of been rearranged so your inlaws could attend...i'm only guessing, i dont agree with these reasonings for one second. Your in laws are trying to hurt you both, by not seeing your children and getting involved and spoiling your husbands son and partner and getting to know her other children that arent their grandchildren. But not to see you grandson is really unfair and not right. And they are being really unfair towards you. It sounds like they pick and choose who they want to like and see. And god forbid if you upset them! I think you husband maybe should have communicated better with you when he bumped into his dad at his grandads house? And not just patched things up straight away without you, he should of got you involved if, im honest. Not speaking to his parents must of been hard for him but you are also his wife and you both deserve to be treated better by his family. It does make it hard for you to go back in because your still angry and you want recongntion and for them to applogise. Whether you'll get this i dont know...i'm going throught a very simular thing with my mum where shes really hurt me and my fiancé and she wont applogise to us and will not accept wats shes done. I'm learning to except she never will understand, she has a very narcissist personality (it sounds like your inlaws do too) and i have to accept thats they way she is... sadly we cant choose our family! Do you think on day you could discuss this with your inlaws? If you can I advise for this not to be done at each others houses, meet somewhere say, what you want and if they turn nasty then leave. You then know you have tried. You and your husband writing to them and then another to your sister inlaw is another idea. What ive learnt from what i expereinced with my mum is Stay strong try not to let them hurt you when you hear theyre being nice to your husband ex etc, if someone is telling this this ask them not to tell you. Try not to dwelll on it so much either ,its ok to think about it , get angry about but think about then let it go otherwise it will eat you up . what your inlaws they want is to hurt you, they are lashing out for some reason but at the end of the day they are loosing out because they dont get to see their grandchildren...im sure deep down they do miss them. Build up your life around, you visit your family so that your children see them a lot, until you feel ready to let them back in. Ask your husband to back you up here but try not to argue about. Its such a sticky situation, i can completely empathise! I hope this was some help, Mia

Hello Mia, Thank you for all the advise and I'm sorry to hear that you are having difficulties with your mom, I hope it works itself out and find peace with each other. Yes, the sister in law is very young, 22, it turned out she didn't want to miss out on a night out with friends. I think as she is the youngest and very spoilt the parents baby her and rather than want to admit she behaved badly, they'd rather just fall out with us so they don't have to face up to her behaviour. Yes, I agree my husband should of spoken to me before he went ahead and made friends, I'm happy that he's rebuilding his relationship with them but I would like for him to let them know what they did was unacceptable and then they could move on from there. Yes, I would sit down and talk with them in the future but I would like for them to be aware of their actions before that so what I have to say isn't going to come as a shock and cause tension. I agree we should meet in a nutureal setting to avoid things heating up and getting out of control because I fear that's what may happen, as I feel they don't like to own up to any wrong doing. I genuinely don't know what to do right now, should I lay off my husband and let it all take its course or should I insist that he stands up to them, it's a dilemma for sure. Thanks for your reply, it was a great help.

Hey Jackdor, No worries, please to of helped. and thank you for the nice message about my mum ect. Not sure if we're going to find peace anytime soon! Should you lay off your husband? Hm, I've been thinking about this and you're right, its such a tricky dilemma...I think now that he's made friends with his parent so to speak, part of me is saying whats done is done. I personally would let things take its course, otherwise you could been potentially deemed as 'controlling' by his family. I guess its a step forward in some ways, even if it not ideal. However I think bounderies need to be agreed between you and hubby, so there are no future surprises or disagreements. It's important to communicate and be on the same page. I think he needs to remind his family (again) when he sees them, you're still upset, and you have been wronged. Let him to go off and see his parents if he wants to but ask him to stick up for you if they say anything spiteful. I'm sure he will and I'm sure he won't go and have 'a nice time', as the dynamics have changed too much, regardless if you got on with them well before or not you won't be there, and I assume your children won't be, which is neither of your faults. Also agree if your children should go with him or not, incase one day he bumps into his parents with your children in tow or his parents ask to see them. You only go back when you're ready. If thats next month ot next year take your time, they ignored you and hubby for a year! I still don't quite understand what you're meant to of done wrong? One of the things I did with my mum, in a final desperate attempt to get her to understand why I/my partner was so upset with her, was list what she did to upset me/us and what I/we did, which was me falling pregnant, which wasn't convieniant for her! It was a very factual, no emotion. If its then given to them in someway to read, depending how they react, its a potential step forward into meeting with them somewhere and they won't be shocked with what you have to say and again you have tried to make contact and you're testing the waters. In situations like this its best not to go and meet them when your too angry (its eventually gets easier)or too emotinal because if you break down and cry or get frustrated, they will feed off this, and it may not go off in the right direction. They may even enjoy it. I'm trying to do this with my mum and its bloody hard. This is going to sound weird, but if you can almost be emotionless about it all (it will take you time to get to this point) when you do meet up with them, that will help you because it will give you the currourage to get up and leave if things go badly like you fear :). mia

Hi again Mia Thanks for the nice message. I am still very hurt and angry and I think your right, for now I need to take a step back and let it run its course and maybe when I'm ready I can talk with them. They would see it as be being controlling, that's their way of dealing with things, blame others. I can honestly say I did nothing to deserve this, I always can admit wrong doing on my part but this time all I did was organise a party and when the sister did what she did my husband got mad and they both had a row and then when the parents came home they were mad at us because my husband told his sister off. That's basically what happened. And after that twice we tried to make up with them only to be ignored. I am glad he's mended his relationship with them but there's things that we both feel uncomfable with (as in the ex who was horrible to him now being heavily involved in family life) this is something I feel he should put a stop to, this girl was horrible to him, stopped him seeing his child any time he got into a relationship with anyone else, even though she was shacked up and pregnant to another man. So she really caused my husband a lot of pain, hence the family not speaking to her for ten years prior to this. I don't know what to do, it's a horrible situation to be in. I won't stop him bringing the children to visit them though as I do want them to make up with them. Jack :)

I think you're right** damn phone lol

It is a power play that they are playing, your in laws. Hierarchy is an important thing with a lot of people. I totally understand that you are upset. It is utterly shameful that they didn't even get in touch with you in your worst of times. Relationships take a lot of effort to build on and to make them work. You really can not change or control what they think about you. It is unfair that they have even pulled your children into this. There are a lot of wrongs that can be pointed out from both sides of this situation. Expecting them to apologize to you will not happen. Why ? Because thats how hierarchy works. Now you and me can continue to debate this all through eternity but the bottom point is that you need to accept that there are bigger priorities in your life. There is a bigger picture that you envision in all of this silly quibble. You need to set an example for your kids, for your husband and for them too. So it is best you don't have a lot of expectations from them. They will learn their lessons when the right time comes. For now, you should focus on not giving an reaction to what they are doing. Stop trying to make contact with them. Let them sort it out. The more you try, the more they will feed poison into the system. It will just lead to anarchy. I know this is a very sad situation that things have come to. But you can't help it that they are like that. And this trait will never ever change. So stop having the wrong expectations. If a opportunity does come at your doorstep to make mends with them, take it. But for now, be at peace with your self. Dont let this effect your relation with your husband. Let him sort his battles out. There is very little that you can really do to improve this situation. You have tried a number of times to sort things out, but if they are not ready to do so, you don't have any other option. Teach your kids to be nice to them. Don't follow what they have done to you. Make them occasionally talk over the phone to them, send a nice post card etc. There are somethings that you can't control and you need to learn to accept that. You should continue to do your bit of things. You have no enmity with them, they have the grudge against you. So let them sort it out and come to you. Learning to forgive and forget helps ourselves only my dear. I understand that you are mad at them, and your not wrong in doing so. But if they do make an attempt to patch things up, take the opportunity to do so. We all do things when we are angry or under the wrong influence of people. And all this fighting isn't really going to help anyone in life. Instead spending two good vacations in a year at their place with all other family members is a better option. I hope things work out for the best :)

Hi Jack, I'm not surprised you're still really angry and upset. It is a hard situation to deal with. I think as long as you and your husband are on the same page and you get support from him, your own family and friends, it will slowly become more manageable. It's also important allow yourself to go through the motions as to how you feel whether thats angry one day or sad the next, so that feelings don't get push down an bottled up - something I'm very good at doing! If you go back too soon with things unresolved, the new relationship with your in laws could become fake and there could be resentment, which is why it's important for them to try and understand where you're coming from- they sound stubborn, so that might take time but I hope the do one day reach out to you. I wouldn't be surprised if your husband is feeling that his relationship with his parents hasn't gone bk to normal and there is tension because nothing really been resolved. In situation like this, it's like banging your head against a brick because you so badly want to be understood - for some reason you inlaws can't see what they have done or what there daughter has done (she does play quite a big part in this and is the catalyst of all this - I think ) . Maybe that because they cant bear to look at their own faults. I can relate to the younger sister thing. I have a half sister who is 12 - theres a big age gap between us and my mum and her partner think shes the perfect child, when really she's so spoilt and knows how to push everyone buttons and is a bit of a brat! Despite her being young, we don't get on that well, because she's just so obnoxious, it might change as she gets older but im not hold out much hopel. My mum ignores any bad behaviour from her and will defend her to the ground if anyone says anything about my half sister behaviour. She also treats and speaks to her so differently from the way she does with me and my other sister. When parents are like this, it's quite sad for the child/young adult/adult, because they don't really grow as a person or mature or know how to deal with adult situations because they know they can go running to their parents. In your sister inlaws case, your husband birthday party. I agree he should put a stop to his ex being heavily involved. Like i said its his parents way of punishing him for telling off his younger sister but how you go about that I don't know. Its also very disrespectful of them considering his ex hurt him so much and what she's done in the past. It's a bit weird after 10 years that their suddenly talking and being friendly. Sadly you can't reason with unreasonable people and you just have to live your life and forget them for a bit. Mia

Hi Harry888 Thank you for taking the time to read my post and offer some advice. I do tend to agree with what you said and I will for now just let things flow and see what happens in the future. They are not the type of people who admit when they are wrong, I've witnessed this with other situations that didn't involve myself or husband, I've just observed as an outsider and saw them acting like this with others but never thought we would be on the recieving end. The thing is, after my dad and sister passed away I really value life and realise how short it is, how precious time is and I want my husband and children to be involved with my in laws but I just can't forgive them for not reaching out to me at the darkest time of my life, I have seen a side to them that I find very cruel and I don't know if I want them if I could ever be the same with them again. I most certainly don't like them they way I used to. It's tough because my husband wants me to be involved with his parents but I don't know if I ever can.

Mia, you're exactly right, you can't reason with unreasonable people and they are most certainly unreasonable. I too bottle things up and then it can eventually get too much for me and I can blow a gasket, so I really prefer trying to resolve things in the best possible way without any conflict. Maybe I am feeling so angry as my emotions are all over the place at the minute due to my grief. When you described your half sister and how your mum is with her is exactly how my inlaws are with the sister in question, She can do anything and they never say a word. For example she got super drunk at our wedding and was interrupting the speeches and swearing and so on, then she kicked her shoes off and one hit a waitress and the back. And it totally ruined our wedding DVD as the videographer had to edit the speeches and cut a lot of them to avoid hearing her in the backround. My husband and I were furious but we never even said a word about it as the parents wouldn't have sided with us anyway. It's like my husband and his brother are just treated so differently to the daughter, it's weird. Like you with and your situation it's not fair that your mum and my inlaws okay this behaviour because it just means they will turn out to be spoilt unreasonable little brats who go through life thinking they can do and act whatever way they please. It is weird, in the last two years he was in a relationship with the ex his family never spoke to her, and when she stopped access to his child whenever he got a gf they really hated her, he had to break off every relationship he got into for a couple of years all because she stopped him seeing his child and would only allow access if he remained single and the parents are now all over this girl. I really don't get it at all.

Jack, I'm sorry for your loss. Loosing one family member is hard enough but two, I can't quite begin to imagine how difficult that is for you on top of everyting else. Sorry I thought I did read that, but concentrated more on you in laws. Have you had/tried bebreavement counselling? It's not for everyone and it's exspensive! sometimes it's hard to find the right counsellor and they need to connect with you and know they can help you. Talking first on the phone can be a good indictor. Because of these two situations, which are both to do with loss, your emotions are bound to be a lot higher and both have a healing process for you to get through. I'm not suprised if its really overwhelming sometimes. Try not to mix these two situations up, even though they are linked in some ways, try to keep them separate because otherwise it just becomes one big mess in your head and that not useful. I can't believe your in laws didnt offer any emotional support to you at this time. They could of at least offered to have your children and offer them support but I think this goes to show what kind of people they really are, people like this are very good at hiding what they are really like until they are most needed then you learn what they're really like! The sisters behaviour at your wedding was disgusting but I can see there was no point in talk to you in laws about this, if they are so blind. I also think its sad for your hansband and his brother, they must feel left out and not treated fairly maybe more so growing up. They are doing no favours for the sister and she'll learn one day, what goes around comes back around :) and her parents won't always be there to defend her and it will be a bit of a well desevered shock for her! Mia

Jackdor, " so I decided to organise him a surprise party" So you were in control. Okay. So WHY didn't you ensure this landmark party fell on whichever date you knew for certain they could attend?

Just my thoughts, but I'd be pretty annoyed if my parents went away when I turned 18 this year and I would be disappointed if they went away on my other future birthdays! They know when my birthday is why book a holiday? They might decide to do that one year, together or apart, and maybe I'd just have accept that. I don't know, maybe things change as you get older and settled down and married. I'm just very family orintated but everyone's different and no family is the same. 40 is another big one; why not as parents hold their hands up and say really sorry we booked a holiday, but let's arrange something now, for when we get back? Be nice about it, get something else sorted, not hold a grudge, which sounds like they have done and fall out with you guys . Who's the grown ups here? Sometimes I wonder with my parents! I don't know if I'm sounding too sensible or coming across as really spoilt! But I think people forget how to be nice sometimes when things like this come up in families, which is sad.

@soulmate it wasn't that straightforward, I had paid for the venue plus food/drink and his parents hadn't book the holiday when I orinally told them about the party, they came across a last minute deal online, so not my fault at all.

Hi LILY31 That would be my view also, I wouldn't dream of going away if my child had a pretty big birthday coming up. They said the offer they got on the last minute holiday was too good to miss. I understand some people are different but I wouldn't of went, if I'd made arrangements to attend my child's surprise party I wouldn't of went.

Hello, Then in that case, it was deffinately up to them to make up for it and arrange something before they went or after they got back. You can't help it if they choose to go away when they know the arrangements. Simples as that.

Hi lily, I agree, they saw a good deal online and booked it even though the party had already been organised and the venue booked and paid for. I was a little upset with them at first but then I thought about it and came to the conclusion that they'd come across a holiday that they'd save money on decided it was too good of an opportunity to miss. I wouldn't do that if I'd already plans to go to my sons birthday but I do understand people are different. Still don't understand how they can be mad with us when they are in the wrong.

Hi jackdor, did they ever get your husband a gift or do anything to celebrate? It's so wrong if they didn't. other family members can be weird when it's come to other family members birthday, weddings and so on. I've seen it happen a lot. Maybe they don't like it that the person getting the attention for a day. I have 2 older boy counsins and when it's one of their birthdays my auntie always buys one son what she calls a 'non birthday present', so there is no jealousy. My parents tell her it's ridiculous and she shouldn't have to, more so at the age they are now, but they expect it now. They are in their late twenties and one is married. They act like it's a big joke on the day, it's so boring now and sad, but I bet if she didn't still do this they'd complain! Losers lol

Jackdor, it was just a litmus dip, not an accusation whatsoever (sorry - the 'why' in capitals was meant to convey keenness of interest), ...and now I've got the colour - especially as I now know you gave them forward notice - which is, JEEZ, THEY'RE PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE, AREN'T THEY!? I mean - Forty - it's a HUGE landmark of a birthday! They could holiday ANY TIME, they've got 11 other months and, actually, xxx other years!... not so being present for their baby's one-and-only fortieth! What the eff message were they trying to send him? 'Selfish pleasure trumps chore'?! (Shouldn't be a chore, anyway, should be a PRIVILEGE!) At this point they sound like cake-and-eat-it merchants...want to be given the perks of the this-stage job without doing the work (obligations) part. No wonder sister took their cue in terms of 's'not important, s'only a party' regarding last-minute flaking-out on you (him). As example- and tone-setters, they made it too easy for her, didn't they! Bad-bad-bad. I'd rather eat my own poo or turn down a lottery win than miss "my child's" one-time 40th celebration! Let's just hope there's some reason behind it we don't know about... like - marriage in trouble, 'do or die' holiday to put the dying spark back in, quick, before it snuffed out completely?? OR (just food for thought to throw into the pot)...considering husband sort-of sneakoly bypassed what he MUST have known would be your insistence at being involved in the decision (presenting as one unit) to extend the olive branch: could he have a guilty conscience towards them and secretly know why they 'showed him their disapproval' with their feet?...because the mouth route hadn't worked??...something either that he's kept to himself and/or that happened in the past before you met? To me, you see, his actions align with someone who thinks they share responsibility.... see what I'm saying? It's just so unnatural for parents to behave like that during such an important-TO-THEM occasion (normally) that I suspect there's a whole background history of 'warped tennis' going on that you're possibly not aware of? Might THAT explain why they seem to behaving as if they feel justified thus un-obliged to apologise? (Still doesn't make them exactly mature, but...if all parents were that then you lot wouldn't be IN these situations, eh!) Well, anyway, that's my two-pennethworth, carry on, everybody...

Hi lily Nope, no gift because when they came backnthey huffed and puffed because he told his sister off for letting everyone down and they just stopped talking to him. OMG really, that's so childish, especially now that they are grown men lol. Doesn't it look real silly x

Hey SOULMATE yep, passive aggressive indeed. They had already been on three holidays that year so I guess another one was really important. They told me it was somewhere they had always wanted to go but managed to see it online for a discount price and that's why they couldn't make it. I found this incredibly selfish but accepted it as I know people have differences in priroties. I know I wouldn't miss a big surprise party for my child to go on a holiday but accept not all people share that view. The sister is very young and spoilt and just does what she wants because there's never any consequences, her behaviour is never questioned and she always gets away with things because she's the baby of the family. I don't think there was any issues prior to me meeting them because before this we all had quite a good relationship and I was very fond of them, and my husband got on great with his parents. I really don't know why it's gotten so bad, its out of control. My husband holds so much anger towards them and is bottling it all up, goes spends time with them and acts as if everything's fine and then comes home to me and complains about how they've hurt him. I just feel for the relationship to move on he needs to tell them how he feels and how they've hurt him. I have taken a back seat and not allowed myself to get involved but I feel he owes it to us as a family to stand up for us for how they've mistreated us.

I would say that's *his* business, only - you married it, didn't you, and your kids got automatically lumped with it. And, yes, I agree he shouldn't be pretending to shoulder their nonsense. I don't care *what* anyone's beef is. Short of murder - if during the sulk period you hear your daughter-in-law's suffered a major, double-whammy bereavement then that should be all it takes to put petty battles well into the shade (that was the really disgusting behaviour, even more than his 40th!). Why don't you suggest he write them a letter or email to ask what's *really* up, what's behind why they'd be okay with missing such a pivotal birthday belonging to their (presumably) first born, as well as choose to defend and side with Little Miss Flakey? After all, what, really, did he himself do wrong? Expect his family to want to attend (- it's not 'why would they', it's 'why *wouldn't* they!) and then have the temerity to mind when neither party did, followed by daring to state his complaint? (SHOCK-HORROR, HOLD THE PRESS!) If he's crap at confrontation then from behind a monitor should be a lot more do-able. But being crap at confrontation always is the reason people pass their rotten parcel onto you - precisely *because* they know they'll not face any reprisals of any sort. Is he ready to become a true grown-up or isn't he? He'd better hurry up, hadn't he, given he's already got a family to defend and protect (can't expect the perks of a job if you're not willing to do the actual work as earns them, eh). Even if it doesn't pay off, it's still a crucial personal-developmental exercise. He will, however, need support and encouragement. I'm afraid you *are* involved, anyway ('mi casa es su casa' and all that), despite he's the 'front man'. The way they behaved during your bereavement, however...that was beyond the pale. So I reckon he should consider this their Last Chance Saloon, if you want my honest opinion. Doesn't really sound like they enhance your lives or represent good role-modelling for your kids, anyway. Sounds more like the distinct opposite. PS: You don't suppose exipoos has been stirring it, do you?...maybe went O.T.T. out of a sense of relief and gratitude and a bid not to lose their support all over again?...because she's not stupid and *knows* this new involvement was bred exclusively out of their spite towards your husband at the time, hence has to keep the wound fresh?

Jackdor that is outrageous they didn't get him a gift. I almost feel angry and disappointed on your behalf. I get when they got back the sister would of gone to them like a crybaby and turned them all against you guys but still! Why didnt they come round with a present and talk? I know thats kind of mixed messages or whatever but it's better then ignoring your own son and daughter in law. Then ignore when you loose family memebers like soulmate said thats even more disgusting then the 40th birthday party, not that both should never be addressed in the future. I think SOME adults are worse then kids sometimes and never really grow up. Makes me think how your husband and his sister were brought up, clearly one very spoilt the other not! Did they get him a present this year? I know I'm a caught up on the present thing, I just can't believe it. It's so childish, and looks really silly. I stand there, normally far away as possible and die of embarrassment. they are always very competitive with each other anyway, so my aunt doing this makes it worse. I know some parents do this but I don't think it's right really. it's one of my cousins birthdays is in December and we got an invite, inviting my family and tom. Tom was quite pleased he got invited but I told him what happens and he was like really? Are they little then ? I was like no, one is going to be 28 and the other is 26. Lol. His reply was 'right, ok then!'. He couldn't quite get his head around it. L x

"I think SOME adults are worse then kids sometimes and never really grow up. Makes me think how your husband and his sister were brought up, clearly one very spoilt the other not!" Spot-on, Lily! ...and I'll be back later today or tomorrow to explain what's usually behind it (, Jackdor).

Jackdor, I've got something for you to take a look at. Are you still here and reading?

@SOULMATE I couldn't agree more, I feel the bereavement was a chance for everything to be forgotten about and to move on but when they didn't get in touch I was very hurt and saw a side to them which disgusted me. My husband does need to grow up and be a man, burying his head in the sand is doing no one any favours. He really didn't do anything wrong, he told his sister she was wrong and they both had words but he was entitled to do so as she was wrong. So the parents should have left it between them and not got involved. That's a good idea about the letter, or email, it's a way of him getting his feelings across without any interruption or confrontation. Yes, I'm still here reading but unfortunately just had another bereavement so was looking after my mother as my aunt passed away and my mother was devastated.

Hi LILY31 You're exactly right, their behaviour is very childish and immature. They could of popped to ours with just a card even, then we could of talked about it. And no, they never got him a gift this year either, or at Christmas. It's just disgusting behaviour. As they didn't reach out to me at that very difficult time I have totally went off them, I'm disgusted with them and I don't think it's something I will forgive lightly. Lol omg, it is so bad, I don't get why parents do that, I think it sends out the wrong message, teaching children to expect stuff they are not entitled to...like just get a gift on their actual birthday like everyone else and no gifts on anyone else's birthday. Xx

Hi jackdor, I don't see that is even forgivable tbh, the whole thing I mean, I'm not still going on about prezzies! Wouldn't it be a little late if they were to say sorry anyways? If it was me I'd move on and think to myself they're not actually blood related family but even then I'm not sure I'd be that forgiving. It sounds stubborn and probs easier said then done as you're married! I know people should forgive and forget but by the sounds of it they've had time to think about apologising and doing it. L x

P.s sorry to hear you lost your aunt x

J, I haven't got time to post at the mo (or even f*rt, actually!), aside, just for now, for saying... 1. Oh my god, not again?! - poor you and poor your mother! And that's all I'm *going* to say because, let's face it, this is one of those things where words just simply don't do it. But you have my full condolences. 2. And - chin up! Appreciate husband isn't alone in his dislike of confrontation/shows of loyalty/solidarity against family, parents in particular. Au contraire, modom. This is such a female-typical theme of complaint on this forum (and others), oh, aye. And neither is it unfixable, despite sometimes it can take time and patience on the wife's part. All depends on the man's learning skills and where he is in terms of his adult developmental journey in life. And, most importantly, (cough!) whom he has as his shining exemplar in terms of possessing a strong moral compass and strength of character. Anyway, will try to post a proper response anon, including what I originally wanted to discuss... Bad timing. Bear with?

Hi LILY31 It is something that's really difficult to forgive, it will take time to move on and I doubt I will ever be the same with them again. Thanks for your condolences, I'm more upset for my mother than myself as I liked my aunt but wouldn't say we were overly close as she lives in Ireland now, so hadn't seen much of her in recent years but her and my mum were super close, so more hurt for my mum. Xx

SOULMATE firstly thank you for your condolences. Yeah, you're right he isn't alone, it is more of a female thing. I find a lot of men bury their heads in the sand to avoid possible confrontation. I do get this but since I originally posted this he has stood up to them and they are patching things up, he is being distant for now and they are trying to make the effort with him but he's playing it cool, there hasn't been any effort made towards me or the children which I find odd. So still can't see it being resolved anytime soon.

Ok, I'm going to try and look at this in a less stubborn way. I got a double free lesson and it's really dragging, roll on 3.30! Maybe, there will eventually come a point where you could just go to them and have your say, with or without them encouraging you. just put what you feel out there? It might not work but it can't get any worse, clearly it's already hit rock bottom and there's only one way up. Then just be really cool but civil with them. Keep them at arms length, not go to see them every time your husband goes, that kinda thing! If it was me, being less stubborn, I'd also make a big point of giving presents on their birthdays and Christmas, that would confuse them :D. They'd be like, but we totally ignored you on all your birthdays/Christmas ...what's going on?! They'd have to say thank you but they sound quite rude, so maybe not! But being nice to people when they are being mean confuses the hell out of them. Quite fun sometimes too. I did this with my little sister, we had a row a few days before her birthday and she ignored me for two days after! She was being a moody preteen and just lashing out at everyone. I still gave her, her present and she was really confused and was like but a few days ago we were fighting and I'm meant to be ignoring you! It kinda stop things from going on and on and on. It is odd and not on they haven't made an effort with you and your kids though! It's horrible when family die, more so if you're close. I don't have many older relatives left and ever since I was 11 and sang at my grans funeral, who I was really close with, my family have made me sing every time, and my dad bloody videos records me! I'm a bit of a perfectionist so I have to stay emotionless, until I've done my bit. Er horrible. I have to tell you this, only because I mentioned it before and I still got loads of time left. This year for Christmas my auntie is giving a big donation to a Parkinson's charity, and to the local hospital where she's had a few operations. She has Parkinson's herself, so it's like a big deal for her. She's been saving all year, as she wanted to give a decent amount to both, so it's not like it's been secret. she's said she's can't afford to also give out xmas presents to adults and would only be small things for the kids, my cousins new baby and my bf because she really likes him, she's only met him once! lol. This also includes my cousins upcoming birthday, where there will be less presents and no 'none birthday present' for the other son, lol. I'm so going to the party now, just to witness their sulky faces, was really dreading it, now I can't wait! When she told me she couldn't get me a present this year, I was like, thats cool and told her it was a really nice thing for her to do. she said my reaction was really appreciated because my cousins apparently got really angry at her and told her she should of saved more for them! and she's not to expect anything from them at xmas. I don't think she was expecting anything, other then their understanding, morons! They're such arseholes, they don't help her out much anyway when she get really tired or unwell. She sounded quite upset, and was like, 'I might be coming to your house for xmas (yay!) because I don't think they're going to invite me to join them. I think I've really spoilt them over the years'. REALLY?! I think she should do it every year to make up for the years she has spoilt them. I told her not to give in to them. I'm going to get her a really nice present for being a nice auntie, she's been really supportive recently and for being so generous, it's not like it's a 100 quid, it's in the high 100s. How long could this rift go on for! No family is perfect, is what I'm trying to say. L x

(Lily - THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT (on your thread today)! :-)) *********** Jackdor, IS he indeed? Well - Gold star for him, then, for an EXCELLENT start! What Lily's describing is called, Killing them with kindness. Only, it only works on healthy-emotion-ed or -minded people (or they don't/can't appreciate it) and, what with this (what sounds like) Golden Child and Scapegoat come (what sounds like) Sibling Divide & Conquer situation *and* the fact they're patching up with him (in response only to his belated, last-ditch effort of shunning) whilst not making any moves in your direction (despite *you* haven't done anything wrong) is what is making me wonder if you have a Narcissistic (grand)parent in the nest. Worth checking, even if only to eliminate it from the enquiry. If not, at least you know precisely what you're dealing with (and there are now How To books). See if any of this chimes significantly with you: "3. She favoritizes. Narcissistic mothers commonly choose one (sometimes more) child to be the golden child and one (sometimes more) to be the scapegoat. The narcissist identifies with the golden child and provides privileges to him or her as long as the golden child does just as she wants. The golden child has to be cared for assiduously by everyone in the family. The scapegoat has no needs and instead gets to do the caring. The golden child can do nothing wrong. The scapegoat is always at fault. This creates divisions between the children, one of whom has a large investment in the mother being wise and wonderful, and the other(s) who hate her. That division will be fostered by the narcissist with lies and with blatantly unfair and favoritizing behavior. The golden child will defend the mother and indirectly perpetuate the abuse by finding reasons to blame the scapegoat for the mother's actions. The golden child may also directly take on the narcissistic mother's tasks by physically abusing the scapegoat so the narcissistic mother doesn't have to do that herself. " Repeat: The golden child can do no wrong, the scapegoat is always at fault. "4. She undermines. Your accomplishments are acknowledged only to the extent that she can take credit for them. Any success or accomplishment for which she cannot take credit is ignored or diminished. Any time you are to be center stage and there is no opportunity for her to be the center of attention, she will try to prevent the occasion altogether, or she doesn't come, or she leaves early, or she acts like it's no big deal, or she steals the spotlight or she slips in little wounding comments about how much better someone else did or how what you did wasn't as much as you could have done or as you think it is...." Repeat: Or she doesn't come (nor her mini-me). And acts like it's no big deal (ditto mini-me). "5. She demeans, criticizes and denigrates. She lets you know in all sorts of little ways that she thinks less of you than she does of your siblings or of other people in general. If you complain about mistreatment by someone else, she will take that person's side even if she doesn't know them at all. She doesn't care about those people or the justice of your complaints. She just wants to let you know that you're never right....... She minimizes, discounts or ignores your opinions and experiences." Repeat: If you complain about mistreatment by someone else, she will take that person's side. "(23.) The narcissist also uses favoritism and gossip to poison her childrens' relationships. The scapegoat sees the mother as a creature of caprice and cruelty. As is typical of the privileged, the other children don't see her unfairness and they excuse her abuses. Indeed, they are often recruited by the narcissist to adopt her contemptuous and entitled attitude towards the scapegoat and with her tacit or explicit permission, will inflict further abuse. " Vis-a-vis sister's horrid reaction to being asked to concede over her wrongdoing and downright sibling unkindness re the party non-attendance. "7. .......The envy of narcissistic mothers often includes competing sexually with their daughters or daughters-in-law. They'll attempt to forbid their daughters to wear makeup, to groom themselves in an age-appropriate way or to date. They will criticize the appearance of their daughters and daughters-in-law. This envy extends to relationships. Narcissistic mothers infamously attempt to damage their children's marriages and interfere in the upbringing of their grandchildren" "23. She destroys your relationships. Narcissistic mothers are like tornadoes: wherever they touch down families are torn apart and wounds are inflicted. Unless the father has control over the narcissist and holds the family together, adult siblings in families with narcissistic mothers characteristically have painful relationships. Typically all communication between siblings is superficial and driven by duty, or they may never talk to each other at all. In part, these women foster dissension between their children because they enjoy the control it gives them. If those children don't communicate except through the mother, she can decide what everyone hears. Narcissists also love the excitement and drama they create by interfering in their children's lives. Watching people's lives explode is better than soap operas, especially when you don't have any empathy for their misery......The narcissist nurtures anger, contempt and envy - the most corrosive emotions - to drive her children apart." "Having been raised by a narcissist, her children are predisposed to be envious, and she takes full advantage of the opportunity that presents. While she may never praise you to your face, she will likely crow about your victories to the very sibling who is not doing well. She'll tell you about the generosity she displayed towards that child, leaving you wondering why you got left out and irrationally angry at the favored child rather than at the narcissist who told you about it. The end result is a family in which almost all communication is triangular. The narcissist, the spider in the middle of the family web, sensitively monitors all the children for information she can use to retain her unchallenged control over the family. She then passes that on to the others, creating the resentments that prevent them from communicating directly and freely with each other. The result is that the only communication between the children is through the narcissist, exactly the way she wants it. " Reiterate: Narcissistic mothers infamously attempt to damage their children's marriages (and Narcs are infamously subtle and cunning....so how's about, by driving a wedge by singling out for undeserved and inappropriately deficient all the way to insulting treatment of your wife, WHICHEVER WIFE AT THE TIME?) "9. She has to be the center of attention all the time. This need is a defining trait of narcissists and particularly of narcissistic mothers for whom their children exist to be sources of attention and adoration..... A narcissistic mother may create odd occasions at which she can be the center of attention, such as memorials for someone close to her who died long ago, or major celebrations of small personal milestones. She may love to entertain so she can be the life of her own party. She will try to steal the spotlight or will try to spoil any occasion where someone else is the center of attention, particularly the child she has cast as the scapegoat. " Or major celebrations of small personal milestones. "12. She's self-absorbed. Her feelings, needs and wants are very important; yours are insignificant to the point that her least whim takes precedence over your most basic needs. " Over your most basic needs. "15. She's infantile and petty. Narcissistic mothers are often simply childish.......When you were a child, if you ask her to stop some bad behavior, she would justify it by pointing out something that you did that she feels is comparable, as though the childish behavior of a child is justification for the childish behavior of an adult. "Getting even" is a large part of her dealings with you. Anytime you fail to give her the deference, attention or service she feels she deserves, or you thwart her wishes, she has to show you. " SHE HAS TO SHOW YOU. Plus, Holiday trumps milestone birthday celebration (and own routine minutae is more important than own daughter-in-law suffering TWICE at the death of loved-ones). Gosh, lookie here... You need three criteria matched for a diagnosis, even if that only equates to mild on the scale. I see six at least, already, and that's only because I don't have time right now to match up/paste in more. How many do YOU spot that you see - or see a variation of - in her? (Alternatively, her husband could be the narc and she his helpless puppet come mouthpiece and 'bad cop' style fall-guy...only you'd know or be able to guess with any accuracy which) : http://parrishmiller.com/narcissists.html In other words, some families are more imperfect than others. Give your husband an almighty pat on the back for REFUSING TO PLAY THAT WARPED GAME ANY MORE AND TAKING BACK HIS RIGHTFUL POWER/CONTROL by doing a miniature version of Walking Away! Next step, after having becoming adept at defending himself ("own oxygen mask first") will be defending you ("before helping others, i.e. your dependents, on with theirs"). :-) You must be a shining exemplar to have rubbed off on him or/and provided him with a secret, "I'm not 'AVIN IT!" leader type to study and take notes over and grow that incredible level of confidence so damned quickly, J! You're his antidote, mate. That's why you're suddenly anti-flavour of the month for no reason you can see or work out, I reckon. Fits, doesn't it?

soulmate, great minds I think! Although I hadn't really heard of a narcissist apart from someone else mention it. I'm beginnig to wish I took physcholpgy for a level because it's so interdicting! tom takes it and knew all about it. Apparently there are different exstreams but he was talking about people taking selfies all the time and posting selfies on like social media all the time and girls who are constantly obsessed with up and hair and their looks and very self centred in the way they talk. I've wasted my Friday afternoon reading his books, he now thinks I'm cute, weirdo :D. Seems like they are the kind of people who can't be helped so it's best to be 'nice' to them. Do you think these kind of people even realise they are like this ? Lily x

(Lily, apart from the odd, tiny aside, posters in the advisory or support role aren't supposed to chat on someone else's thread, unless the OP expressly invites it. So I'll respond to this over on your own thread for now.)