Jealous of best friend

Ok so im 18 years old and recently my best friend- or my only friend moved away. I stayed at our hometown with my parents even though i wanted to leave but we couldn't afford that. I was initially jealous because of that but i got over it quickly. Anyways, my main concern right now is that i feel like i am missing out on life. I go to uni but i havent really met anyone i like. I have people to talk to there most of the time but no friends. On the other hand, my friend is friends with half her uni and living her best life while i am doing nothing. Im just afraid because she is moving on with her life and im stuck in the same place. Plus all the people i talked to in high school suddenly forgot i exist so i have literally noone to go out with. I am very happy that my friend is living the life she wanted but it still hurts to know that i probably never will. I guess iam not really jealous but just sad. An other thing that i am really concerned about is that i have never experienced anything romantic- nothing at all noone has ever liked me or anything. I havent even had my first kiss yet(which is something iam very insecure about).On the other hand, my friend has always been an absolute magnet for guys- everywhere she goes she gets hit on. Now that she moved she met this guy and she was talking about all the things he says to her. I couldn't even be happy for her because all i was thinking about is that i will never experience something like that. I know that i sound like a shit person right now but its not like i will ever try to bring her down- i absolutely love her. It just feel like iam drowning in my own misery too much to be happy for someone else. So a question ( preferably for older girls) do you think that there is a fixed- normal age for you to experience things like your first kiss? Also do you think that there is something wrong with me? Because i have received zero romantic attention I am very shy but super approachable also iam good looking(or at least people say so) so why the fuck is this happening to me Thanks for reading if you reached here lol

Message to you and all other Original Posters waiting as if in a 'queue': Hi and welcome! Sorry for the delay from any regular respondents, but as you can tell, we're very thin on the ground/swamped in RL, at the mo. I personally can be with you tomorrow evening or Sunday (day off). Notwithstanding - meanwhile, feel free to respond to the other posters waiting alongside you, and at the same time, to ask them if they could give their opinion or feedback on yours. This, in actual fact, is how this 'old-fashioned' forum is supposed to work. It's that, or, if you can, to have to keep waiting a bit longer for myself or any other regulars to have a respectfully-decent window for you? ORRRR....how's about - get BOTH! :)

I'm 21 a female and experienced that same FOMO. Even worse cuz we were in the scamdemic when I graduated high school and everything was closed. Most kids my age were just stuck at home, shitposting online and going insane from boredom. I assume the same happened to you during that time. The only people that seemed like they did have a life were the peers that went off to university. They got to move out and live among peers their age, throw parties despite covid. Meanwhile kids like me just worked at a shit job and/or stayed at home and.. rotted. So, you're correct. You are missing out. Your college friends are having a great time while you're rotting at home. Welcome to the real world, it's about to be a shit show.

But if it makes you feel any better.. in 3-4 years, that "great time" your college friends are having will come to an end and a lot of them will be in the same position as you. Living with their parents and working a shit job. I had a friend that shamed me for not taking school serious, he went to a university in California. He came back to live with his parents this year because his anxiety was too bad, now he's working as a delivery driver for Amazon. Sooo.. yeah. A lot of your peers are going to school just to be in the same position as you, but with massive debt on their head. Woohoo! That being said, you're only 18. You should consider going to college or get some type of higher education just so you can learn/grow as a person, be around peers your age. Find a college that isn't going to financially wreck you. Yeah college isn't necessary, but degrees will give you a better chance with job security. And going straight into the real world isn't a walk in the park. It actually fucking sucks. There's ways to make big money like real estate, sales, business n whatnot but all of these things come with a catch. It's not a walk in the park and definitely not stable for most people.

I'm tryna help you, I don't want you to be in the same position as me right now. Gain your independence right now. Get your drivers license, a car, a job, go to school, build a tight knit community of reliable friends. Try to form real, genuine relationships. Those friends you had in high school.. hate to break it to you, but a lot of them aren't really your friends anymore. Give them the benefit of the doubt though. They might be busy. Try to reconnect with them, but if they aren't interested you just have to let it go.

Oh I misread that you do go to university.. Well just join clubs and talk to people then. A lot of your peers are there for the same reason, to make new friends. As for the first kiss thing.. normally kids get that from 12-15 but honestly it doesn't matter. If you're attractive then you probably do have guys asking you out, you just don't want them or you're too shy to talk to guys you actually want. Shyness, I can't really help with. I got the same issue. The only "cure" for shyness is taking yourself out of your comfort zone n starting convos with people. You could try embarrassing yourself in public. Like bark in the streets or say weird things to strangers. It'll get you weird looks, but then you'll see how most people forget about it and move on immediately. Then you subconsciously realize that things aren't that serious n you will become less shy overtime. Relationships are complicated tho. I'm still figuring it out. But if you're trying to get is a first kiss, I mean.. you're at a university. Go to a party, dress really nice and talk to a cute guy lol

Dude I'm telling you right now, in terms of dating you got it EASY. High school and university are these nice little social oasis's for young people. PERFECT for finding a boyfriend/girlfriend. I know it's easier said than done but just approach a guy if you really need to. A simple "Hi, how are you?" "I like your shoes" "What's your major?" will do the trick. The worst they can do is reject/ignore you, but they probably won't.

Thanks for responding amd being so real with me lol. In terms of the dating thing, i dont even want to date anyone, i guess i just want validation from someone because i am so behind in this field. I have asked people about this before-like why am i not getting any action and they said its because I never make the first move. So i was like ok, next time i like someone im just gonna do it. So last year, there was this girl from school that I liked(im bi) and i knew she liked girls. During a schooltrip we came kinda close and she asked me if i was gay, so my idiot self though she was interested. Right after the school trip i straight up confessed to her, only to be brutally ghosted. The worst part is that i saw her every day at school and the embarrassment i experienced was next level. Like, she completely stopped talking to me and turned her head around every time i looked at her. Im pretty sure she told all her friends too, because they started asking me some weird ass questions. So i had to live out the rest of the school year in complete shame. Because of that, i was like- im never experiencing this kind of embarrassment again. If anyone wants to get with me, they just have to say something first. Well, a year later and that just hasn't happened yet. This got me wondering if there is something seriously wrong with me. As i mentioned, my best friend has always been a magnet for guys-and she never even tries. So i was like- what does she have that I don't (she's not much prettier than me). This kind of started making me jealous but not in a bad way where i would try to bring her down. Im always supporting but i feel so bitter every time she talks about all the guys that hit on her. Last night she was talking about this guy and the amazing romance that they have and i was like- how the fuck does this actually happen to people?

"Well just join clubs and talk to people then. A lot of your peers are there for the same reason, to make new friends." The only clubs we have are theatre and dance and im shit at both these things. I havent "clicked" with anyone from uni yet, at first i was alright with that, but it's been six months now and im starting to get worried. I have talked to people but i have this kind of sarcastic and ironic sense of humor and they just...dont get it. I also curse a lot and someone told me- i dont like it when people talk like that... I was extremely surprised, like am not going to change the way i talk for you. Im just afraid to be myself in case i come out as strange and im not having a good time when im not being myself.

It's time to stop the self comparison then. Does your "friend" ever make snarky/passive aggressive comments about you? Why do you feel this way? You don't really know what goes on behind closed doors for her. You don't know why she gets all these guys or crazy love stories. She could be desperate or exaggerating, you wouldn't know. Or maybe her life really is that crazy. Maybe she is the ultimate man magnet. But who cares? That has nothing to do with you. If you are seeking a girlfriend, honestly that will naturally be harder than finding a boyfriend. Simply on the fact that women have more standards... But also, finding a girl that isn't wishy washy might be a challenge. Like the girl you were talking to in the past who just ghosted you for no reason. There's sooo many stories like that especially with "bisexual" girls. Not invaliding or stereotyping, but you will probably come across that situation a lot esp if it's somebody that just found out they're gay or didn't come out yet Don't let THAT one rejection stop you from finding somebody else. You're going to get rejected n embarrassed in life btw, that's just how it goes. Try to build a thicker skin on that typa thing (that's why I suggested saying weird things to strangers, like how people do in YouTube pranks/social experiments)

What kind of university do you go to? Is it like a theater/arts type of school? Maybe get into sports? Tennis?

You are soo right about the comparison thing. I know that its super wrong but i honestly can't help it sometimes. She also has admitted to "exaggerating" stuff and and she used to lie about things that never happened in the past, but i think that we got over that. Honestly, i always thought that getting a girl would be easier only because my country is conservative and there aren't that many people out, meaning they dont have many options. But i guess my experience with that girl grounded me lol. Its a lot harder than i thought. We don't have specific kinds of universities in my country, its like one for everything.

Well, of COURSE you haven't clicked with anyone yet - you're GRIEVING - for your friendship! But- on GOOD days - what about the people who already talk with you? Couldn't you make something out of it, like say how interesting to talk to you find them, do they fancy meeting for a drink some time soon and continuing the conversation? OR get onto the topic of books you both enjoy...recommend one - one you've already got - and lend it to them. But for now, you're grieving. Nav knows what that's like so - keep chatting, that'll fill a lot of the loneliness gap and improve your mood whereby maybe it'll help put a little 'smile on your face' (because I bet you're not smiling at people, lately, or holding your head high - if shyly). ALSO...you don't know that Fate doesn't want it this way. Maybe you're unwittingly headed for a stroke of luck because you're meant to get your career established BEFORE you use precious time dating and thinking about someone? There's no 'normally' these days. But a good life tenet is this: Work First, THEN Play. Carry on you two. :) Oh, and WT51, DO check out Nav's story on her thread. If you can imagine being in her place, it's pretty Wowzers.

Also check out Jae and post a comment if you like? :) If you're going to stick around, you may as well say Howdy to the other regulars.

PS: Tsk! Stop being so melodramatic, the pair of you, jeez, LOL... Life doesn't suck, full-stop. It's a rollercoaster. So it sucks....then it's brill....then it sucks again....brill....sucks.... and sometimes you can get brill and sucks simultaneously (I guess that would be the Loop-The-Loop bit?)....and at least once, there might be a tunnel...but then when you come out of it - an amazing, panoramic birds-eye view....and back to sucks/brill/sucks/brill.... (Whether it happens at large intervals or more like in rapid succession depends entirely on how fast you move and how wide an area you cover.) It's least Life is not boring. Trust me.....I've done boring. And it was boring. (Laughs at own joke)

Thank you so much for responding! Im gonna try to be more optimistic, sure. Im only eighteen after all (The people who keep saying that these are the best years of my life arent helping though😅) Also, how do i check someone's thread? I have no idea how this works.

They're the most FERTILE years for planting stuff. Usually. But, as I say, usual and stage-related progress don't apply since Brexit then Covid. And since 49 became the new 30, and so on, you've got time to be late blossomers, your Genzeration (see what I did there? :D) No hurry. Just go with your own flow. It was the Tortoise that won, anyway, not the Hare. :) You're still preparing, limbering-up and revving up. You'll undoubtedly overtake your ex-friend. Hence the above parable exists and has survived so many eons! You'll certainly be more emotionally mature (the two things are linked, anyway). There's no Lose here. Just time to get to know yourself better, enjoy being in your own company, reading books, studying (with no distractions), amusing yourself, becoming your own bestie. It's when we're fascinated or having fun that we strike as optimally attractive to people. Then they're drawn to us because we look happy to with ourself, in our own skin (so we must be rather lovely). Reading hysterical comedy books is a good one...you'd be sat there in the common room, intermittently giggling; that always does it ("What you reading, what's so funny?"). But by all means be miz for a few more weeks, get it out of your system. How you visit other threads is by scrolling to the Green banner at the top of this page and clicking the drop-down menu labelled Forum, and sliding your cursor to Forum Index and clicking on it, and it'll take you to where you'll see every visitor and resident's recent Threads. It also features a way to search by Alias (you'd type NAV in capitals plus Enter/Carriage Return). Hope that helps? Any more technical questions, you want Green banner again - Support - Technical Support. Adios for now. :)

PS: just in case you have a problem - here's the link to NAV's thread: https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showtopic/13501/im-in-debt-and-too-sick-to-work-like-a-normal-person-what-do-i-do#jumptotop But do try the way I said, first, to get familiar with how it all works.

Thank you so much for being so supportive! Im a go with the flow type of person anyways, although the flow hasn't been taking me anywhere great recently lol Also, my friend isn't an ex one. We still text almost every day and we meet whenever she visits. I got the technical stuff figured out,thanks for helping.

Just bumping you up!

"(The people who keep saying that these are the best years of my life arent helping though😅) " They used to be. Now your whole generation are having to write songs about the heavy limitations that Brexit and Covid brought upon us all, but especially you guys. I expect you wouldn't perhaps appreciaate how you're all together in this, considering you've been without a close friendship, but - check this out to see it is absolutely, definitely not just you; you lot are not even a minority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEJN7opj-QE So if it's not your friend you're grieving, maybe it's this aftershock period, causing you to grieve over what would and should have been awaiting you, had it not been for this unexpected, giant, ongoing blockade?

Thanks for the song- its beautiful! I guess a lot more people that i thought are going through the same thing "So if it's not your friend you're grieving, maybe it's this aftershock period, causing you to grieve over what would and should have been awaiting you, had it not been for this unexpected, giant, ongoing blockade?" I think its exactly like that. I always told myself that even with my best friend away i would meet new, cool people and have new experiences but literally nothing happened and im very scared that it will stay like this. I even lost all the rest of the friends that i had because i guess that they moved on, met new people- or maybe we were never even friends and i was the only one who thought we were.

Isn't it. Says it all. You're not just 'not alone', though. You're the majority. (How she sings that without crying, I don't know!). Me, I feel terrible and really guilty on behalf of my whole generation. It's not you guys that are failing, it's we guys that failed you. Things should have been up-to-date functional BEFORE Brexit and Covid hit. Instead, all the procrastination and neglect got exposed. Everything's bloody crumbling. Not that it won't get rebuilt - this isn't the first economic crisis, by any means. In the 70s, the working week was shrunk to three days! Amd there were strikes galore. But in the meantime, it's you guys who are suffering most because you've got the most ambition and energy, ergo, the most frustration (it's directly proportionate). How are you at online/technology? Ever thought of starting up your own biz, now, ready for when you leave? Did you read Ingrid's post? She gave very good advice too: start sowing your post-grad seeds NOW. If this period is a giant Lemon, make Lemonade. Think of it like neing stuck in a lift and all you can do to amuse yourself and take your mind off things is to finally (FINALLY!) go through your photo album and start getting it in order, deleting and creating album files. Pessimists see danger in opportunity Optimists see opportunity in danger Realists are aware of both, know they haven't got time to fear either, so stop themseles thinking, make a quick calclation and just go for it (Nike!). One-Two-Three-JUMP! Feel the fear and do it anyway, it's known as. Once you've jumped, you kick yourself: what was I so scared about? It's like when you're in the mood for a really good party. It's usually pants. But the party you had to be dragged to, turned out to be a really good evening. (Remember your first jump off the local swimming-pool's highest diving-board? You did it and you were fine.) At your age, I used to practise striking up conversations with strangers on the train (particularly when it was stopped in a tunnel 'because of a leaf on the line' or whatnot) or at bus-stops...anywhere, really...like, going into pubs with a good book or newspaper (this was when I was new to Londond) Half the time - BECAUSE there was no pressure, it was just practise without worrying about the outcome - they'd surprise me by asking to swap numbers! And there you have it. Cease to care so you're relaxed and far less inhibited. And joining clubs may be a cliche, but that's because it works. Might take time to bond with your other clubmates, but - it'll happen. I don't think anyone feels Cool any more, to be honest. (And, yeah, I don't believe your friend, either.) Did you read Nav's thread yet?

Do you want to talk about Little Miss Fibber? Methinks she - the type she is - could be part of your problem of why you're not radiating your usual level of attractiveness to people. (I mean, that was an impressive opening post for an 18-year-old.) Easily resolved if so, without needing to split or anything drastic. Want to spill? PS: 'Friends with half her Uni'. SMIRK. When does she find time to have a bath and wash her hair and clothes? Bit smelly, is she? What a crock. They're ACQUAINTANCES, people she can 'nod to'. And how ucking insensitive to crow at you when you're down. It's like you're starving and she's telling you she's surrounded by a banquet! I mean - WHAT? 'Friends'. Yeah, like Fakebook "friends". Take EVERYTHING she says, now, with a huge pinch of salt and if you want to 'cash in on it' by amusing yourself, go OTT with the congratulations - Ow, WOW, that's AMAZING, well done YOU (while in your head, you're thinking, you lying cow, how stupid are you to think I'm stupid!). Maybe more a competitor than a friend, huh. Still, it's flattering to know she's constantly comparing herself to you. ('Every cloud...')

Hello! Sorry for responding so late but i never got a notification. In the meantime,i have been trying to make the best of my situation by studying as much i could (since i have nothing else to do) and i actually passed all of my exams! ''Ever thought of starting up your own biz, now, ready for when you leave?'' Actually, me and my mom have been running a small business since last summer and its going good, so i do have something to keep me occupied. ''And how ucking insensitive to crow at you when you're down. It's like you're starving and she's telling you she's surrounded by a banquet! I mean - WHAT?'' Omg that is exactly what bothered me the most! Especially in the beginning, she would text me crying about how she doesn't like her new friends (she knew them for a week) and about how she would end up alone, when we both damn knew that would never happen, while being very aware of my situation. On the other hand, i have never whined to her about being literally alone, because i was always afraid i would be annoying. Unfortunately or not, she is absolutely telling the truth about most things. I know her probably better than anyone, and she is extremely charismatic. People just naturally trust her, and her social skills are seriously unmatched. Im telling you, that girl is gifted. Andd im the exact opposite. We have been best friends for 6 years now and have never been through a crisis before. The reason why i love her so much is that even though she always had like a hundred friends, she always chose me first. The reason why i had any friends other than her in highschool was because if anyone wanted to be around her, they inevitably had to be around me too. But when she moved away, i realised im nothing without her. I know that its extremely dramatic, but its just how i feel.

Hi again, No need to apologise to me about showing-up late - I'm far worse these days! Anyway, it's your thread, you can post as often or languidly as you like. Best to take time in between anyway - I shove a hell of a lot of info into each post so there's a lot of absorbing, cross-referencing and editing needs to happen in your existing 'mental filing system'. Methinks, however, I've spotted some misguided thinking on your part (marked with **) so - allow me... _______________________________ "In the meantime,i have been trying to make the best of my situation by studying as much i could (since i have nothing else to do) and i actually passed all of my exams!" Fan-bloody-tastic - what can I say? And under this upsetting climate too. Very impressive - WELL DONE, YOU, keep it up! (That's a brilliant, rare skill (especially these Insta days), being able to retain and organise information like that, under-fire of loneliness and no doubt off-shoot Anxiety; it'll see you in fantastic stead in your future career. ''Ever thought of starting up your own biz, now, ready for when you leave?'' Actually, me and my mom have been running a small business since last summer and its going good, so i do have something to keep me occupied." Refer to above! What is it, if you don't mind my asking? FYI, Lily31/Parents Splitting Up started a biz with her mum, it's going really well. You can always trust your mum...takes a lot of worry out of it. And anyway, you're AT that age, now, where you and she become more like best friends. This is all good prep, in fact, so I'm wondering if Fate's designed things to be this way for you - so that you CAN'T be distracted from what's important (honestly, the time goes sooo quickly and any friendships rarely survive after Uni - my son is testament to that. He and his old crowd have all steadily 'peeled off', so it's actually good thing, given everything else you've got going, isn't it. 'Fate moves in mysterious ways'...but shame it can't send us a memo beforehand, eh, so that we didn't naturally assume something was wrong rather than As It Secretly Needs To Be. "''And how ucking insensitive to crow at you when you're down. It's like you're starving and she's telling you she's surrounded by a banquet! I mean - WHAT?'' Omg that is exactly what bothered me the most! Especially in the beginning, she would text me crying about how she doesn't like her new friends (she knew them for a week) and about how she would end up alone, when we both damn knew that would never happen, while being very aware of my situation. On the other hand, i have never whined to her about being literally alone, because i was always afraid i would be annoying." It's what bothered me the most, too. It's known as "*I'm* alright, Jack!". VERY thoughtless and not just a tad egotistical as well. Me, I think she was trying to undo her loss of pride in front of you during her first week. But that's not what you do with long-term friends: you're supposed to feel capable of telling each other everything and anything. Are you an Only Child? You sound very nice, I must say. Oh, well, take what you need from that friendship and disregard the rest. At least you can use her as your pit-stop in between studying like a mad thing. I started two little 'cottage' businesses around your age, as well, when I moved out of London, back to my Home County to lodge with my parents, while looking for a rental. In the daytime I was a freelance recruitment agent and in the late avo/evenings, made very arty, unique and innovative, silver and gold earrings (in the days when selling for cash was still possible). My mother got into making them with me as well..then my father (artisticness in the family)....all three of us would be sat round the telly with the silver wire, beads, links, cabochons, pliars, having a ball. I'd sell our wares at all the pubs and hotels in my area...made an absolute killing as I started in the run-up to Xmas and ended up with masses of regular customers. What with the freelancer-supplying as well, I was making well over a thousand pounds per week - cash. Put virtually all of it into savings, after buying myself my first car (you driving yet?). Haah...those were the days.... lol. So, REALLY, I'm of the opinion that these early years, when you HAVE all that easily-renewable energy and enthusiasm (which does NOT...LAST...you start being unable to get to bed late, and really feeling the hangovers, from about 25 (OH YES...drip-drip-drip/tick-tick-tick) - that, *precisely* what you're doing/being forced by Fate to do, is the very best thing you COULD be doing. Then you'll be qualified, if you like, for friendships...proper ones...and will automatically choose accordingly. Because close friendships do require a surprising lot of upkeep; plus, it's proven now: there's no such thing as multi-tasking, just task-depriving (of attention), whereby nothing really gets done *properly and dedicatedly* and, trust me: above all else - at your age/stage - Dedication (better yet, obsession) is always-always what you need for this life. You don't want to be a workaholic when it's mating/sprogging time (30-ish) or you'll end up divorced ten or so years later.... (...how does it go?... For her He climbed the highest mountains Swam the deepest seas Crossed the widest deserts. She divorced him Because he was never at home. :D) So yes...study yourself silly. The time will speed past and, since most friendships are destined to dissolve post-Uni (even just people moving away for work/cheat rent reasons), you'll lose nothing compared to what you'll have gained: made hay while the sun shone. And you'll have a car to cart yourself and your new friends around to "gatherings" n stuff. The very sociable types, however, probably not so much...too much sitting-around-chatting and making Daisy-chains when they should have been making hay. You'll definitely have 'the last laugh'. And not many people your age know that so - somebody 'up there' obviously likes you and is guiding you. (Any ideas who? A late fave granny or something?) "Unfortunately or not, she is absolutely telling the truth about most things. I know her probably better than anyone, and she is extremely charismatic." Oh, REALLY? Extremely charismatic?...plus highly insensitive?, self-aggrandising?, pumping-up her ego by comparing herself to you and coming away feeling superior (crowing) as leaves you emptier than before? "Hmmmm...". Proceed with caution. Those are all very selfish and self-centred settings/attitudes. She could be quite high on the Normal Person narcissistic scale, which means, innately insecure/envious/coveting. But, regardless, even fairly little kids now that if your friend says, "I feel glum", you DON'T respond with tantamount to, 'Really? I FEEL GREAT!'. Bit of a Red Flag so just, as I say, try not to automatically trust everything she says (unless you see evidence for yourself). "People just naturally trust her, and her social skills are seriously unmatched. Im telling you, that girl is gifted." People tend to insta-trust her, as well, do they? Okayyyyyy.... And yet, with YOU, she's socially inept? HOW DOES THAT WORK? It doesn't. Those two do NOT go together! ***Red-Flag-Red-Flag - huge pinches of salt required!*** Never mind. Soon as you've got that biz running like clockwork and have quals coming out of your ears, your confidence will SHOOT up and you'll find people starting to swarm to you like minor bees that need a leader type (which you clearly are - actions, actions). "Andd im the exact opposite." GOOD! THANK UCK FOR THAT! It's called Genuine. You're JUST lacking confidence at this stage. Almost ALL students feel like you, regardless of whatever it is in their environment they mistake as being to blame. A LOT of it is your hormones, still. "We have been best friends for 6 years now and have never been through a crisis before." I've had friends for TEN years that seemed fine and then suddenly 'came out of the closet'. Just any pressure. Anyway...charming people - sorry, people PRETENDING to be a naturally charming type - the Covert Narcissists or overly narcissistic, tend not to be capable of hanging onto lasting friendships/relationships. ALL of those types tend to be charming yet insensitive (to the point of cruel) (- tick!). Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but: (1) Daily life is very different now, so much harder and 'desolate'-feeling, especially for your agegroup, and pressure does NOT sit well on a Narc, meaning, out they slither. Start keeping a diary of ANYTHING odd/upsetting/insulting she says or does - and start it from the first time you really noticed that extra-special kind of "Ouch (that wasn't very nice)" feeling. Make it three columns - Nice...Neutral...Nasty. See how crowded that list gets. I suspect you'll end up very shocked and surprised. But...please do prove me wrong. (2) So many MORE of your generation 'wear' Narc-Specs these days. She MAY find that her charms - or what comes soon after - are starting to ....wait for it because I know this won't have occurred to you....WEAR THIN OR PUT PEOPLE OFF AFTER 'FIVE MINUTES'. Did you think of that? Because that's what's starting to happen. The more instantly-charming one is, the more other people give you a wide berth until your consistent run of all-round actions and behaviour prove one is NATURALLY charming (and not at all selfish, spiteful, out to 'mug' your confidence off you, etc.). (So now you understand why I typed GOOD, THANK UCK FOR THAT, yeh? Don't worry, therefore. The Shy/Sincere/Deeply Thoughtful types are coming back into fashion. :) In fact, this timing of everything is practically perfect, isn't it?) On the other hand: If you're right in believing she's (these days, still) consistently nicer and more beneficial to your peace-of-mind and contentedness/safety/security than not, you'll be left feeling markedly better. If I'm right - you'll be left feeling a bit shite (not much, given the 'distance' of late) but, afterwards, better than ever...clearer...lighter....PROBABLY 'STRANGELY' MORE ATTRACTIVE TO OTHER PEOPLE (cough!, just saying....but, actually, it's how it works when your friend pulls or keeps you down). **This is the mis-think I mentioned. Smacked me clean between the eyes, it did (typical mistake at your age): "The reason why i love her so much is that even though she always had like a hundred friends, ((A Hundred....HAHAHAHAHA!!)) she always chose me first. The reason why i had any friends other than her in highschool was because if anyone wanted to be around her, they inevitably had to be around me too. But when she moved away, i realised im nothing without her. I know that its extremely dramatic, but its just how i feel." Yoooou 'nana. Oh, she and the situation have done a GREAT number on you, haven't they. Wow. No, cherub, it's like this: Sure, she was initially charming, and a laugh/fun. But she had a serious down side. Which YOUR PRESENCE - THE BLEND OF YOU WITH HER - MADE HER TOLERABLE. Like over-strong, bitter coffee. You were the sugar and cream. Get it? And I know that because I like and rate you a lot already - and all from just two piddly posts. WAKEY-WAKEY. Nope. Nope-nope-nope: the admission that she lacked friends suddenly, was true. At that point, she was too low for pride to get a look in (she must have been on the floor!). But, all too soon, her ego kicked back into puffed-up-ness, meaning, she couldn't take having made herself that vulnerable to you...the thought was making her cringe. So what did she do? What they all do: lied that everything was suddenly transformed for the better. HEARD IT ALL BEFORE, you see. I've BEEN friends with 'her'. Known friends who've been friends with her before. Read about friends like her. Seriously...do that 3-column list...check whether her Light Side far outweighs her Dark (or even Dark plus Neutral). THESE DAYS, taken into account with anything that now, newly strikes you as Iffy under this new 'dark light' I've shone for you over your evidence table. You can write it here if you like? Or I can help you categorise anything you're not sure about? The point of knowing her dark-light ratio is so that I can advise you of precisely how much 'arms's length' to maintain her from you, whereby you get the benefits but none of the kicks and punches. Plan, Stan? (You're pretty ucking fantastic for 18, you know.) (No. You *don't* know.) (You will. :))

PS: forgot to mention: Coverts are likened to (Everyday) Psychopaths in that they can dupe you into believing wholeheartedly they're basically a good'un and 'just a bit hurtful', 'just a bit careless/insensitive a lot', 'just a bit Me-Me-Me', just a bit INEPT - WHEN IT COMES ONLY TO YOU. They either isolate you before feeding off you OR you isolate them for them (reclusive type) OR circumstances leave you isolated (tick). However, even in the latter case, yours, there is STILL that highly 'sense-able' Narc Effect on you (you end up with a face like a wet weekend, all nervy and background hurting from the latest disguised snipe or backhanded compliment...all the really really petty stuff but LOTS OF IT. In application, it always feels like they're NEVER...Q...UITE BAD ENOUGH....to fire. Unlike Narcissistic Sociopaths, your straight Coverts and Covert Vulnerables (who can pretend to be down/hurt - in order to get YOU to spill, NOTE-COUGH!, so that they can fashion their insults around the sore nerves you've revealed, NOTE-COUGH!) can go for DECADES, pretending to be a bit this/that/this negative but 'REALLY, he/she isn't THAT bad...I don't think'. They're the ones Discarding/getting chucked at over 50 and 60-years-old (although, note that Discarding is actually them getting in there first, the minute they sense the change in you - "Hit Or Be Hit" is their main mantra, all types). Oh yeah they are (bad enough). Or how come you're not radiating in a way that attracts people any more, despite she was the Addictor and you were the Super-Comfy Chair that made it SAFE for them to continue hanging around her. How come you were so Blue and mentioning her involvement? How come it took me to point out her emotional attack, there? SEE? You just aren't wearing the specialist-tinted specs - and why WOULD you be, when you've got so much on your mind? You see? That's just the 'involvement' of hers, out of the total Covert bags of tricks, that you DID FEEL but couldn't articulate. (It's sooo frustrating not being able to see and point to the evidence and understand completely, WHY your life and once-popularity has started to wane. Capiche? It's not called Covert/Hidden, for nothing. It's harder thinky-dinky time. Or that list. Oh, GO ON - do the list. I really-really want you to do a list. Even if just to eliminate her from the enquiry. I suspect this is going to be mightily, eye-openly helpful to many readers present and future. You can say no, though, I can take it, LOL. :) But she is definitely without-question worth a more thorough frisk. Even if all she is is too immature, now, for you.

PS: "On the other hand, i have never whined to her about being literally alone, because i was always afraid i would be annoying."" That was yet another, characteristic, Scooby Clue. With a true, lasting (i.e. morals-matching) friendship, you NEVER feel afraid to confide/whine/whinge/cry with them. Never. BECAUSE THEY NEVER WOULD BE - it flies in the face of the first definition of Friendship (each other's Rock!). So that (COUGH!) "Walking On Eggshells" - especially where concerns, whether/how/when/if to Approach so as to avoid (COUGH!) annoying them - is where I would send you, interweb-wise, RIGHT now. You'll see. NEVER. Well, maybe once...on a really bad day. But if you say/show you don't like it, they don't tend to make that antisocial mistake again. Better yet - don't tend to make it IN THE FIRST PLACE. Getting it even more?

Anyway (sorry - cooking, flitting back and forth) - at your age, they don't even have to be narc-ish or NPD to realise you're drifting apart. Some friends are just put on for you by Fate/"the universe"/god/nature as Stepping Stones. Usually, their example is the path that leads you to the keepers. It's impossible to get them to bond with you properly - so "Devaluing" (tick!) then "Discarding" you (whether real or faked for power-leverage reasons), for them can be like selling/trading-in their car (sad for all of 5 mins). If you're not operating as you were used to doing, in any one important zone of your life based on your nature (- unfettered/un-laden), however - this case, noteably, *socially* - then, usually, it IS another person behind it. That's purely logical if you think about it. Another HUUUUGE clue I spotted (I haven't told you everything - we'd be here all day!): You KNEW your "whinging" wouldn't be welcome, even BEFORE you entered a phase that demanded having lots of whinges with a bestie. Speaks volumes, matey. Unless you DID try once and got somehow, subtly "punished" or "not rewarded)? Usually it does take an example incident. But if you know even without making a first attempt? Time to shuffle backwards and try to read more about narcissism (AND immature friends with low eQ) to identify her before you think about shuffling back. Alternatively, search "Am I in the wrong - should I apologise?" by Heisenberg. His started as an online friendship with the offending woman concerned. Lots of web-info in there that I posted for him, and lots of "things occurring to him, all-of-a-sudden". And YEP, she was/is a Covert. They are sooooo subtle...atomic....silent-but-deadly....not even mainly with their mouths - it's what they FAIL to do as much as do. Furtive and insideous. All with a friendly smile or "haha, just joking" (as a cover for wounding) or "just being honest" (as a cover for cruel). Really, really slippery and hard to pin down. And bitty-bitty-petty, as I say. Google "Covert Narcissist - Death By A Thousand Cuts". You will feel SO RELIEVED if you do 'see' her. You'll realise there's nothing wrong with you whatsoever. Except for HER EFFECT. (My friends and I call them Human Covid/Long Covid.)

Correction: "But, regardless, even fairly little kids now that if your friend says, "I feel glum", you DON'T respond with tantamount to, 'Really? I FEEL GREAT!'" Nor do you if you can (which a good friend can) *merely detect* your friend is feeling glum (or even just out-of-sorts). Are you starting to see how the thigh bone is connected to the pelvic bone, etc., now? I cannot believe that all this time, she's had you convinced (including through others) that SHE was the star of your duo. What's SHE got to show for it, then? Has she started a biz, has she? Has she passed all her exams, has she? FIRST WEEK OF UNI AND SHE FULLY EXPECTED TO HAVE PEOPLE FLOCK TO HER LIKE THEY USED TO. FIRST WEEK OF UNI. How unrealistic is THAT! ("...to-the....Hip-bone..."). You see? ...'we'd be here ALL DAY'. (I swim all the way down to the bottom of the abyss, I duz. You'd be surprised what crud you find down there.)

PPPPPPPPPPPS! Thinking about it - you're busy studying. So here's Heisenberg's thread link. Ignore what TYPE of relationship it is. They're basically a one-trick pony no matter what the relational or role-based nature of the duo/group. https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showtopic/13160/am-i-in-the-wrong-here-should-i-apologise (While I was at it - I gave your room a quick tidy as well) (hur-hur)

Basically, with coverts, you can only ever say, I thought I knew her better than anyone. Until I realised, I didn't. Unfortunately, it's usually in hindsight (or if you linger too long and your tolerance bucket alerts you by overflowing without-warning), or someone in-the-know opening your eyes by lending you their "dark specs". For that reason, Coverts/Covert-Vulnerables are the worst. A far longer "waste" of time and energy. Bloody years. (Oh, and n-spaths start off consistently Covert, too, for a good two years or so, before letting their monstrous selves all hang out.) Six years, thinking she's wonderful and she's your friend YET YOU AREN'T EXPERIENCING THE POSITIVE SNOWBALL EFFECT like you should ("somehow-suddenly" making a second and third) (it's called the Confidence To - that's what attracts first...and the rest is because you're loveable and bondable-to). Zat iss NOT hhow idt nor-mmally VERKS, mein Leib-ling. Ya? I'm coming back to the surface now (it's muddy down there, maan). Over to you again (at your leisure).

I haven't read what you've written yet but something just happened and i HAVE to talk about it. She came back to town yesterday, and told me we should meet today and watch a movie together. This is all perfectly fine with me, i tell her yes and then today i let ger know that i have class from 8-9:30.(This is also the time when we usually meet). She didn't say anything in particular but i saw from her tone that she was bothered, probably because for her im always available, and she had definitely made other plans after. So she tells me to meet before my class, around 6, but i tell her 5 is better because i have to leave at 7:30 and we wouldn't have enough time. She says ok great. When its around four she says she'll came to my house because she didn't bring her laptop with her.(we almost always meet at her's) Im like ok sure but im panicking because my house is a huge mess and I haven't studied for my class yet. So i burst my ass to study and clean the entire house in less that thirty minutes, only to get a text like: ill came at 5:30 after all . At this point im seriously pissed off, because she has done this MANY TIMES. Plus she is always 10 minutes late minimum. So i just chill, i wait, i do my makeup and get dressed to go to class right after, and around five, she says we should better meet tomorrow to have more time, because some other girls wanted to go for coffee with her and they couldn't go later. And mow im seriously upset, obviously. The thing i said about her always choosing me first? I should probably erase that. Now im starting to see things that i have always ignored before. Like the "ill came 30 minutes later" thing. She does it seriously almost every time. And she definitely wouldn't try to pull that shit with anyone else, because im the friend who never gets upset, never calls her out, the one with unlimited patience. Another thing i noticed, every time she visits she goes out with all her friends except for me. We always stay inside and watch a movie. I have watched like, five billion movies at this point. It was always my favourite thing we did, but now its the ONLY thing we do. I realise im probably a coward for now saying anything, but im seriously scared, and now im starting to believe i have a phobia of being unlikeable to people. That was waaay longen than what i intended, but i do feel better. P.S i did read navs thread, im kinda worried she's not responding anymore.

'Ever thought of starting up your own biz, now, ready for when you leave?'' Actually, me and my mom have been running a small business since last summer and its going good, so i do have something to keep me occupied." Refer to above! What is it, if you don't mind my asking? I basically make small paintings, and sell them at souvenir-tourist shops. However, i kida hate it lol. I love painting and drawing, but i have to make whatever the client wants, and its usually stuff i hate. And then i have to make the same thing 100 times. Sometimes i actually like the designs though. I used to be really into drawing realistic portraits, but i somehow convinced myself i suck and stopped drawing, untill the business thing came up.

"Are you an Only Child? You sound very nice, I must say." No, i have an older brother. "Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but:" She used to be fine when we were together. Even when she did piss me off, i would always get over it in seconds because every time we talked, i would just forget about everything. She was awesome, made me feel special and everything. Nothing i said or did was getting judged,we talked about everything, she was always there for me and overall the perfect best friend. When she said something that annoyed me, she would always apologize before i build the courage to speak up. I think thats why i struggle to do so now, because i haven't done it before.

"She MAY find that her charms - or what comes soon after - are starting to ....wait for it because I know this won't have occurred to you....WEAR THIN OR PUT PEOPLE OFF AFTER 'FIVE MINUTES'." I have literally seen this happening and its all connected to this: "FIRST WEEK OF UNI AND SHE FULLY EXPECTED TO HAVE PEOPLE FLOCK TO HER LIKE THEY USED TO. FIRST WEEK OF UNI. How unrealistic is THAT!" They actually did though, but she didn't like them. She met these girls that she thought were stuck up or something, then met a bunch of other people, who she shit talked with about the previous girls, and the whole situation backfired because they found out and called her out. She felt terrible for weeks after.

"Sure, she was initially charming, and a laugh/fun. But she had a serious down side. Which YOUR PRESENCE - THE BLEND OF YOU WITH HER - MADE HER TOLERABLE." I still believe it was the opposite though. The people we talked to in highschool as a pair would never talk to me when i was alone. They hang out with her just fine, thought. That could very well be my fault and it probably was though. Also, all my friends from highschool that cut me off still have contact with her. That however, isn't my fault. So allow me to disagree that i was definitely not the star of the duo. About that list, i guess we could put what happened today at nasty. I went from annoyed to angry( i dont know if my mother is employing her to make me clean the house) to sad to just hurt because i have been waiting since Christmas to see her again and she chose to see someone else first. However, knowing me, i will have probably forgotten about this tomorrow. So maybe somewhere between neutral and nasty? Idk

"Speaks volumes, matey. Unless you DID try once and got somehow, subtly "punished" or "not rewarded)? Usually it does take an example incident. But if you know even without making a first attempt? Time to shuffle backwards and try to read more about narcissism (AND immature friends with low eQ) to identify her before you think about shuffling back." No, no the "afraid to whine to her" thing is a me problem and not something she has caused. I have totally talked to her about not having any friends here and she's been super supportive. I just don't do it at moments when i feel like i need it because in my head its like:" i shouldn't annoy her for this, shes probably tired of hearing about it, what if she thinks im annoying" and the list goes on.

Since im seriously opening up here, i should probably mention that i had another best friend before her, for about 6 years(holy shit are all of my friendships doomed to last 6 years?) She was my childhood best friend and again " the star of the duo". our friendship ended very suddenly, which is something that changed me as a person and made me seriously struggle to the point that i started self harming. I still do it sometimes, not going to lie, but very rarely. Anyways i always blame my "afraid to be annoying cause people will hate and dumb me" problem on her. I left quite a lot to unpack here, hehe, hope you will be able to catch up.

Busy couple of days - sozzies! Be with you tonight - hang tight...

PS: Yes, of course I'll be able to catch up. I even read whole, actual, books, doncha know - sometimes really huge ones! ;D I can hear the Cognitive Dissonance and Denial going round your head from here (normal and commonplace). Don't worry, I'll clear all the "F.O.G." for you. :)

I'm here! Bit late - sorry. "I haven't read what you've written yet but something just happened and i HAVE to talk about it. She came back to town yesterday, and told me we should meet today and watch a movie together. This is all perfectly fine with me, i tell her yes and then today i let ger know that i have class from 8-9:30.(This is also the time when we usually meet). She didn't say anything in particular but i saw from her tone that she was bothered, probably because for her im always available, and she had definitely made other plans after. So she tells me to meet before my class, around 6, but i tell her 5 is better because i have to leave at 7:30 and we wouldn't have enough time. She says ok great. When its around four she says she'll came to my house because she didn't bring her laptop with her.(we almost always meet at her's) Im like ok sure but im panicking because my house is a huge mess and I haven't studied for my class yet. So i burst my ass to study and clean the entire house in less that thirty minutes, only to get a text like: ill came at 5:30 after all . At this point im seriously pissed off, because she has done this MANY TIMES. Plus she is always 10 minutes late minimum. So i just chill, i wait, i do my makeup and get dressed to go to class right after, and around five, she says we should better meet tomorrow to have more time, because some other girls wanted to go for coffee with her and they couldn't go later. And mow im seriously upset, obviously. The thing i said about her always choosing me first? I should probably erase that. Now im starting to see things that i have always ignored before. Like the "ill came 30 minutes later" thing. She does it seriously almost every time. And she definitely wouldn't try to pull that shit with anyone else, because im the friend who never gets upset, never calls her out, the one with unlimited patience. Another thing i noticed, every time she visits she goes out with all her friends except for me. We always stay inside and watch a movie. I have watched like, five billion movies at this point. It was always my favourite thing we did, but now its the ONLY thing we do. I realise im probably a coward for now saying anything, but im seriously scared, and now im starting to believe i have a phobia of being unlikeable to people. That was waaay longen than what i intended, but i do feel better. P.S i did read navs thread, im kinda worried she's not responding anymore." Actually, before I comment, I need to know something because I SUSPECT you're subconsciously doing something typically victimy-sneaky. It doesn't exonerate her - pas de tout! - but it would require a certain-tinted filter over the magic torch. (And PS, I'm available on-off all day today so feel free to respond quickly, if available, and then I can get properly stuck-in: You told her Yes. Then on the day itself, warned you had a class...until 9.30 (am I to presume, morning?). Didn't you know the day before that you had a class? Did you forget, during the arrangement conversation? When and what time did you find out? Did you apologise for the late disruption to the arrangement? I suspect your mind is already done with her. But it's mentally so difficult with Coverts to pinpoint exactly (or even find a name-label for) their ultra-misty-twisty psychological crimes against you...particularly as most things were those that FAILED TO happen/WEREN'T said (or in the right, APPROPRIATE way). you've got to have a memory of an elephant AND good recall - which is very difficult when still chronically distressed. I suspect that with more time in which to calm down (now that you know where you stand and how to dodge the slaps/over-competitiveness), you'll have come to you the evidence to match my accusations (same as Heisenberg). Really, it takes time to realise just how seriously you've been mistreated - WHETHER INTENDED OR JUST SELFISH CLUMSINESS OR NOT (it still harms). Back to you? And how are you feeling today? You ok?

PS: This is your remaining Cognitive Dissonance talking, right here: "No, no the "afraid to whine to her" thing is a me problem and not something she has caused. I have totally talked to her about not having any friends here and she's been super supportive. I just don't do it at moments when i feel like i need it because in my head its like:" i shouldn't annoy her for this, shes probably tired of hearing about it, what if she thinks im annoying" and the list goes on." It means, trying to marry two, completely contradictory beliefs at the same time (your case, because your mind has a piece of damning evidence for the prosecution which it's already correctly classified, verified by me, but you're holding onto old misbeliefs as clash horribly....no doubt due to the usual Sentimentalism of big Empaths) (which you crystal-clearly are). See if you can spot what I mean and why. (No worries if not - I'll tell you. Just wanna test your cylinders at this point along.)

"your case, because your mind has a piece of damning evidence for the prosecution which it's already correctly classified, verified by me, but you're holding onto old misbeliefs as clash horribly.." I'm having a hard time understanding this, English isn't my first language and i dont know what half of these words mean lol I totally see the way im contradicting myself though. And there's a whole term for that wow! I had no idea!

You told her Yes. Then on the day itself, warned you had a class...until 9.30 (am I to presume, morning?). Didn't you know the day before that you had a class? Did you forget, during the arrangement conversation? When and what time did you find out? Did you apologise for the late disruption to the arrangement? It was until 9.30 at night. Of course i knew, i didnt think it was a big deal and i let her know in the morning of the same day. It wasn't like we had an arranged time to meet, we just said lets meet tomorrow. I honestly didn't think much of it.

We did meet up, i discovered she lied to me about things that didn't make any sense and I don't understand why anyone would lie about that in the first place, for example she said we should go to my place cause she didn't bring her computer at town, remember? She had bought her computer, i literally saw it, and when i asked about it she said "of course i brought my computer, i had to study", like i wouldn't remember what she said a day ago? I honestly don't understand.

I got waylaid (happens alot - Spain is chaotic and everything last-min, no-warning, still). I'm going to bust a gut to get on tomorrow and help you understand why the lie, and the rest of it, no worries, busy yourself with something else. It's never a case of will I be back, just how quickly but I can hear you're in confusion and distress. Yet another disappointing disillusionment. What she denied, is called "Gaslighting" - re-writing history, denying the facts, trying to rob you of your correct perception and thereby chip away your usual trust in your mind and senses. All just to escape being accountable for having told you one thing but done the complete opposite. When we spend time in any emotionally involved and intimate people with brain-damage, set to permanently getting one-over (or worse) on people, particularly those closest (i.e. most ego-threatening) to them, IT DISTURBS US. Go google it. You're experiencing the correct, typical, Narc-victim brain sensations...the response of a FIT AND HEALTHY brain trying to organise what cannot be organised into making truth and/or sense. Our minds aren't supposed to experience it. It's a socially-passed-on disease. Additionally, due to their/the illness's over-dominance compulsion, they're infectious and your brain can sense this and feel distressed, sort-of scared of them, panicking because you don't know what's going on but dread experiencing that again without at least being prepared and non-intimidated.... All of that and more. She's got your mind parts doing Olympic-level gymastics - basically. Like Twister on-acid. But in unnatural, abhormal positions that feel unsafe. You ARE safe. And there are so many ways to be even safer, without it harming YOU or anyone but a Narc or even Insecure/Difficult Person. But her corrupted data, now cranked-up, just *feels* threatening. How do you look in a leotard? LOL Thinking of leotards and the Olympic Games: Which country are you in/from and/or what's your first language? (Your English is very good, I must say!) PS: Your phobia is just an illusion. Unless you were surrounded by Narcs growing-up/schooling and just weren't aware and thought ALL kids/people were "like that", it was just something one had to tolerate in any human-human close relationship of any kind? I'm one of the sanest people you'll ever meet and - look - with each post you publish, the more I like you. And I am infuratingly fussy. With very high standards that I make myself follow as well as others who want to spend time with me. I am VERY protective over my brain. Never watched Porn - saw through it (PAYING drug-pushers to addict you, out of your own salary ffs!, and who wants to watch people they don't find attractive anyway, having feelingless, purely recreational (or disrespectful) S*X with each other? What am I - a voyeur? Ugh - unclean. Same for gratuitously gory/distasteful horror films. How angry-childish, how misogynistic (AGAIN)... And I'm a Super-Nova Empath so I'm sensitive AND tough, whatever any situation demands. So it must be nothing to do with you and all to do with them and why they'd want to give you the cold-shoulder. Are you a truth-speaker? Do you call out BS as you hear it? Narcs (and - google - Flying Monkeys) are WELL scared of truth speakers. And anyway. I know my stuff so I know that if you are targetted and picked/pecked on by a load of soul-suckers and enablers, or even ONE, then it's because you've got what they want but don't have and have no means to attract into their life. But - question: where are all these "star"-worshippers today? Maybe you mistook fawning for popularity? It's common for other less-confident of the truth types to do anything to stay in "the in-crowd" and not be next in the subtly bitchy and confidence-pecking/etc. female Covert's scary-sniper crosshairs. They're the ones that frequently say something that makes you want to 'curl up and die' or the 'ground to swallow you up'. The ones that rush straight up to the boy you fancy and yell, (Name) fancies you!, and scare/embarrass the boy away (because they insist on being your only interested and (false) feedbacker. Victim's problems are not that they're not in whatever way(s) gorgeous enough. It's that they're TOO gorgeous. So much so that they want to possess you then BECOME you. Because you've got what they haven't (empathy/humanity) and your unique You-ness, and all the things those gorgeous traits get or pave for you in later life, even when you're no longer youthfully good-looking (for you). Looks or Look or Facial/Body Posture attract. Personality - including, e.g., your subtly unique thus identifiable/recognisable voice -immediately step in and keep. Looks fade, personality doesn't. And looks/facial muscle posture takes a 'beating' when you have a secret ahole in your life, especially when they REALLY start losing or removing their mask due to pressure or crisis. You have all the ingredients to be attractive or alluring (alluring is best - that doesn't go, either). Except for one: confidence in you! You don't know up-to-date you, anyway. You've neen too distracted AND have had a person whose even just vibe would have left you unsettled. Even the NICE things they say aren't said right. It's all Cantonese Clingon (misspelling intentional). You're sweet. And deeply caring. I love it! Name me one person in world who doesn't? :) You stop seeing people's faces as you get to know them, anyway. It gets overlayed by their personality. So, for example, they have a huge nose but they're a lovely, interesting, etc. person. More the months pass, the more you start to LIKE their unique nose...find it sexy, even. See? What you've seen of their INSIDES, if attractive, makes their face/body increasingly more attractive. If NOT attractive..... I dated a supermodel. His sexy face by Month 6 had turned into an off-putting "plasticine" face with a permanently smug and arrogant facial expression.... it's hard to articulaate but it was like he had a wax face that slowly got out of kilter, out of proportion....DISTORTED. I ended up thinking, Ugh, you're actually WEIRD-looking...UGLY. Yeah - cos he was an undeniable p*ick....playing stupid mind-games, trying to assert dominance by assuming superiority (with eff-all basis), making substly snidey remarks meant to remove my confidence ("Pathological Envy")..... LIFE IS TOO SHORT. Don't write that off as a wrinkly talking. I'm not exaggerating. I am having real trouble believing what age I am this year. Like - NO, I'M NOT - I'M THE SAME AS I EVER WAS. I just don't look 'as I ever was'. See? SEE? (HAHAHA! - but serously - ) See? I said I would post tomorrow but I just started reading ONE post and got sucked in. There's something about you. I was supposed to go to bed! But I don't even mind! But I am going to be self-displined as I have to be up quite early in the morning (uuugh) so - more tomorrow/any chance get - you and everyone else, jeez!

Sorry- just borrowing your thread to respond to Richard's message to me on the main page: Righto - will do! Will answer you on here if there's a problemo with my email. (Bloody-bloody technology - what NOW!)

Yep - found them with the Spam, Stan (haven't a clue why) - will read them tomorrow! Cheers for the heads-up!

Right...to clarify what I meant that you didn't understand: basically, cognitively, with this further proof of abormal, childish attitude and behaviour - you now know she's "Iffy" but it's too hard to know which Her is the Real Her - the nice her or the lying, 'bringing you down' (after just lifting you up - it's called giving with one hand while/then taking away again with the other and is a specialismm of Coverts). As the separate polar opinions based on her extreme/polar sides, so extreme they're like a split personality ("she's normal-she's not-she's normal-she's not...she loves me-loves-me-not..." cannot merge/blend because they both correct fully-formed opinions based on incoming data, entities in their own right rather than blendable components/two halves, YET don't add up to a normal human person paired together and (without constant whisking) refuse to stay permanently together, normally (oil and water), without 'stabilisers' "n stuff", you're left with two separate opnions vying to get into a single-sized opinion hole. They don't fit so they have to take turns. Yes/no/yes/no/yes/no....AAAAAAAARGH - WHICH!!! IT CAN'T BE BOTH. Yes, but it can. In brain-developmentally sabotaged/damaged individuals. That's WHY they drive you crazy. Your mind has nowhere to PUT this alien data package and our mind has to FILE STUFF in the CORRECT filing cabinets or the company could be negatively affected as a result. They LOOK normal, they SOUND normal. But they're ferel...half-baked, half-present, out-of-order human, more like a machine with predator/aggressor psychology (pounce or be pounced on/eat or be eaten/hit or be hit, dump first or (inevitably) be dumped first...). It's like, every night when you 'lights-out', a ferocious, starving, maybe rabbid, lone wolf suddenly appearing on your sofa in place of your lovely cuddly doggie. Tears chunks out of you, freaks the bejesus out of you...you turn the lights on again and it's just your cuddly doggy again. Being turned horribly confused into insane ("Gaslighted") anyone? You've answered my questions (Taaaa!) and I see that you warning her didn't apply to the nature of your meet-ups. Got to break off for a tick so I'll start a new page...

(...continued...) "The thing i said about her always choosing me first? I should probably erase that." Now that she's without a main Primary Supply she's started to tame and train you. So she leaves you long enough until you're starving, then reappears and 11th hour arranges, then messes you around, before (could be true, could be lie) telling you she's playing with other friends instead, you'll have to go to the back of the queue. Because what she was testing to see if you'd do, was: BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR HER. BE INSTA-CONVENIENT. Be Master to your Slave (which would include, Emotional Dumping Ground/Punching-Bag - even if just because she had a headache). YOU FAILED. YOU SHOWED YOU STILL HAVE YOUR SELF-RESPECT. Mission - Failed! Now you must be punished/trained harder. You'll be starved again for a longer period, whether non-contact-wise or deliberately being supportive, undermining, invalidating... And then she'll come back and "litmus test" you again on that same score. She's trying to wear you down until you go, "Anything!...anything!....I'll do anything you want when you want how you want from now on... - just FEED ME, PLEASE, BOO-HOO!" Aren't YOU a bad little slave, then? (Gold Star on your forehead - "thlup!"). "Now im starting to see things that i have always ignored before." Yup. It's how the Narc Abuse Recovery Path (think, through a woods) goes. You've hit that hidden little pothole next to the tiny lakke that trips you up so you fall flat on your face where it hurts enough that you go, 'Jeez, this path is dangerous in places', or notice the sole of your shoe contributed for coming loose and flapping around, so think, 'I'd better go more carefully'. And then it smooths out again. It's to get you to stop and look around you and behind you (which you're doing so you're HEALTHY and right on-target, progress-wise. And you got there VERY FAST, actually.) See? All you needed was SUPPORT. And I'm not going anywhere so - let's go get her, Tiger? :) And this is precisely why they don't want you to have support nor confidence to make up for lack of support. She wants the entire so-called Friendship to be ALL ON HER TERMS - and sod yours and how YOU feel about it (servants don't get to demand and dictate). Anyhoo... "Like the "ill came 30 minutes later" thing. She does it seriously almost every time. And she definitely wouldn't try to pull that shit with anyone else, because im the friend who never gets upset, never calls her out, the one with unlimited patience." Yup. Swat Narx Do. Tip: Always agree a meet-up time of about 30 minutes EARLIER than you intend. So, obvs, you say 7.30 when you mean 8. And then pretend you got there on-time(ish) :) (*leans forehead expectantly forward, with cheesy grin, for a sticky Gold Star from MT) (haha, worth a try). "Another thing i noticed, every time she visits she goes out with all her friends except for me." Yup. "We always stay inside and watch a movie." Yes. Like the servant, who stands-in for "friends" but is still just an (free) employee, that you (to her) 'are' (NOOOOOT!) (fail) "I have watched like, five billion movies at this point." Wow! Which ones? (hahahahaha) - "Go...!?" No, but, seriously, folk: which stick in your mind that you'd love to watch again? That could be a really handy bonus to this 'Friend-Fiend-ship', you know? Could be really useful in the future. And think of all that knowledge you've soaked up and the raise in iQ from all those moving books! "It was always my favourite thing we did, but now its the ONLY thing we do." Yup. "Wine and Netflix". It's "a thing" on your dating sites and apps. Basically: I don't wanna waste money on you so let's do a budget-bottom date and pretend it's RO-MAN-TIIIIC and for romantic REA-SOOONNNS. (Yeah, right, cheap-arse.) All the friendships perks for her - none for you. All the friendship work for you - none or the bare-bare minimum at times, for her. Got it? Seeing it fit beautifully? Being managed down? GOOGLE - "Narcissist - managing down your expectations". "I realise im probably a coward for now saying anything," Nope! This is how they affect even the normally super-brave Neurotypicals, ESPECIALLY big-big Empaths. Still right on track, no wozzies. "but im seriously scared, and now im starting to believe i have a phobia of being unlikeable to people." Yup - that, too! The lovelier you are, the harder it affects you. (So stop showing-off hahaha). Not people. Malignant Narcissists. I can SEE you've been stuck without even realising, in La-La Land, surrounded by the buggers. Let's keep pulling you OUT Of there and back into Normal Kind People Land. Then the kind people will SEE you and want to be friends with you. Honestly, this IS what's going on. You're the psycho-emotional version of a domestic slave/sex slave/whatever, tricked into the country with the promise of milk and honey but isolated, locked-up, mistreated, tortured, even, not paid.....CAPTIVE SLAVE. They call Malignants, Slow Murderers. "That was waaay longen than what i intended, but i do feel better." That was waaay shorter than I can write or am used to dealing with - so you can feel better about that, too. :) "P.S i did read navs thread, im kinda worried she's not responding anymore." Yeah. (sad, pouty face - me too. But usually just means they've turned a corner and got sucked into stuff and "will post again in a minute, in a minute..." but are too engrossed in having fun for a change. No wozzies, she knows she can come back any time. Did you read Heisenberg's thread yet (link above)?

(tsk - WT, not MT) (good god, better type slower) (or clip my nails....I sound like a kitten trying to catch a fly on my keyboard) (or tapdancing)

PS another tip: What are you studying, and could you choose films that are relevant and would enhance your understanding of whatever from giving you the second-hand *experience* as well as the academic knowledge? I.e. choose the films that you want (without her realising). I.e. Make Lemonade out of that giant Lemon, like clearly has already been done from you here and there by "them upstairs"? This is a uni course all itself, you know. University Of Life - How to deal with a narc so that normal people become a BREEZE and so you can become distinctly unattractive to Narcs whilst distinctly attractive to Normals-Empaths (your ideal types). I can already see this whole experience is going to do you a MASSIVE favour/leg-up, I sincerely can. PPS: She's more scared of you than you are of her. She needs you more than you need her. Can't LIVE without a You (seriously - literally). "NPD - fear of abandonment". Not like the reasons for OUR fear. More DREAD of having to start over with a new target. That's why the vets/malignants like someone vulnerable/down - half the training's been done FOR them (having had the air taken out of your sails, not enough fight left, etc.). So where in Normal-Empath Land it's feel the fear and do it anyway. In La-La Land (slave compound), it's DESTROY the fear then do it or don't do it, depending on whether you can by then be arsed to give a sh*t. You only REALISE how bad and welfare/sanity-threatening the abuse ACTUALLY was, with hindsight. Either post-leaving physically. Or, like in your case, emotionally (de-drip, de-drip, de-drip). You've been grieving while still IN the relationship. You won't have much 'getting over' left to do. You might be surprised how much you feel like partying ('going liberation-crazy')! Have one on here if you like? I'll come?

Oh, and - another tip: Next visit, say: "We can't sit around at mine, though, because I've got the landlord's/uni's painters/contractors, I'm having to sleep in my friend's room for a few nights". Out-narc the Narc. She can abandon you as a project or do as she's ruddy told for a change - CHOOOSE OR LOOOOSE, Bucko! You've got to get over yourself and lie to Narcs. If you view them like Normals and stay polite and within social taboos like you would with them, you're done for. Picture Indiana Jones, Temple of Doom. Arab Giant Narc appears with cutlass(?) - well, huge sword....waving it around menacingly. If Indie decided to play fair and pick up a sword - he'd risk getting injured or worse. So he just gets out his gun and goes, 'BANG!' (and then shows an exasperated/bored face). But this is just while you're gearing-up to deciding to dump. Which, I'm afraid, if they don't alter their attitude and behaviour and have a bit of bloody respect (means can't/won't/see no need to, LIKE things this way), by then, you will. She's going down, whichever way you look at it. That's why you mustn't waste energy being scared. If you pull her off the La-La Land cliff WITH you (where everything works OPPOSITE to how it's supposed to), then, she (or He), being a La-La Land native: She falls down to the rocks below (which is her Up). You fall UP (which is her Down), back to Normal Land. (Try an Aspirin, haha)

''What she denied, is called "Gaslighting" - re-writing history, denying the facts, trying to rob you of your correct perception and thereby chip away your usual trust in your mind and senses. All just to escape being accountable for having told you one thing but done the complete opposite.'' I know what gaslighting is, the part i dont understand why she would lie about something so frickin pointless. ''Thinking of leotards and the Olympic Games: Which country are you in/from and/or what's your first language? (Your English is very good, I must say!)'' Thank you! To be fair, i have been learning it since i was five... Im Greek! ''So it must be nothing to do with you and all to do with them and why they'd want to give you the cold-shoulder. Are you a truth-speaker? Do you call out BS as you hear it? Narcs (and - google - Flying Monkeys) are WELL scared of truth speakers.'' I usually dont, but i keep it and i remember EVERYTHING. So when someone says something contrasting, i just go like:arent you the one who said...(whatever they said) ''Right...to clarify what I meant that you didn't understand: basically, cognitively, with this further proof of abormal, childish attitude and behaviour - you now know she's "Iffy" but it's too hard to know which Her is the Real Her - the nice her or the lying, 'bringing you down' (after just lifting you up - it's called giving with one hand while/then taking away again with the other and is a specialismm of Coverts).'' RIGHT! One moment shes love-bombing me and the other does stuff that makes me wonder if she actually gives a shit about me. ''No, but, seriously, folk: which stick in your mind that you'd love to watch again?'' Hard to decide, but i still think about that damn plot twist from Cruel intentions. I couldnt believe he was actually dead!(tsk - WT, not MT) (tsk - WT, not MT) Haha-its ok, i seriously dont even remember my username "What are you studying, and could you choose films that are relevant and would enhance your understanding of whatever from giving you the second-hand *experience* as well as the academic knowledge?" Im studying archaeology, and i choose the film most of the times anyways. "I can already see this whole experience is going to do you a MASSIVE favour/leg-up, I sincerely can." I honestly see it too, at the begining i seriously felt like i couldnt live without her (bit much i know) but as time passed i realised i will be just fine, even alone. Best part of being a huge introvert is im not afraid of being lonely. "More DREAD of having to start over with a new target" I actually dread of having to start over, not with a target of course, but the thought that i will have to get to trully know someone, all from the begining terrifies me. With her im somewhat safe, i know everything she likes and doesnt, what makes her happy, what angers her. With someone new i will have to learn all of that all over again. "But this is just while you're gearing-up to deciding to dump. Which, I'm afraid, if they don't alter their attitude and behaviour and have a bit of bloody respect (means can't/won't/see no need to, LIKE things this way), by then, you will." When it comes to me, i dont think that i would ever dump her. We have too many memories, we have been through so much together, we saw each other grow up, i want to keep "seeing"her, see what kind of adult she turns into. And i want her to see me too. I guess now that i know better (all thanks to you!) i just wont let her stomp over me anymore.

Be with you tomorrow daytime, WT - soz for delay!

Heya! Noooo - *you're* not contradicting yourself - her *data* is contradictory...*she* is contradictory - and a healthy mind has real difficulty trying to cope with that. "I know what gaslighting is, the part i dont understand why she would lie about something so frickin pointless." I KNOWWWWW - it's crazy, right? There you go. Corrupt wiring and circuitry is as does. But the crazy's reason is this: They get an ego kick every time they mentally mess you around. (Yes, indeedie - scream for Matron, quick!) And yet they can seem SO NORMAL. Yup...all day-everyday mimicry - of an Empath. Yup, they pick on the ones who care most...Because in La-La Land, the warped/upside-down rule for social survival is: S/he who cares least, wins! (...Ma-troooooon!....where is she!) Also, they can't keep keeping-up that level of fairly non-stop act as is required, not to send potential "Narcissistic Supply" (google) away, screaming, 'Rogue and out-of-control android on the loose!'. Anyway, I did SAY, try an Aspirin, LOL. I'll tell ya summat else: they make TERRIBLE employees (constant manipulation, over-competitiveness, and creating dischord - or other extreme, shirking (creating themselves Lackeys) yet shockingly taking the credit)...end up having to hop as much between one job and the next (or opting to work solo) as much as they do fauxlationships (should be called ReekLationships IMO), and Fiendships/Frenemyships. Teamwork/teamship is not a word you associate with any Malignant. Plus, they lie on their CVs. Just as with everything else "lovely" about them - they can fake it until the Other is hooked. From there, theories are divided between their lovely side being real but constantly spoilt by their compulsion to be pettily evil ("puke their toxins out and into you", etc., as well as get the Fiendship totally on their terms and sod yours - as you've just experienced) OR, they're putting it on. Probably depends on their severity on that part end the spectrum. They all get worse with age though (don't believe the Narc-created propoganda out there, fashioned to shut victims up and keep them taking their crap, LIKE they get milder; they beeping DO NOT). I feel wildly sorry for them - or the kid they were before they got completely, irreversibly, emotionally-slow-murdered and brainwashed (like getting bitten by a vampire or zombie - which types is precisely what these films depict). The severe and/or veterans, will even tell a lie when they not only could have told the truth, but could have avoided trouble! Why? EGO-NUM-NUMS (think PacMan)....I lied and you believed me - hur-hur-hur-hur-hur! - I'm so superior to you - I'm like a God or something - hur-hur-hur. And take a hint from that game/depiction too: to send them off, you've got to turn Blue and out-to-get-them. Witness this scene....you're DEALING with a feral predator so, what could be more fitting or true re. what happens when you finally have HAD ENOUGH OF HAVING HAD ENOUGH!... (YouTube - Shorts - "When A Lion Turns Vegan") - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XzH2lWcYdHs _______________ And by the way, forgot to mention: I'm pretty sure those past fans/sychophants of hers who seemed not to want to hang out with you individually, are those that believed her smearing of you behind your back. They start "the Narcissistic Smear Campaign" (google) from early-on in your friendships as a type of insurance: either long before, or certainly the minute that you end it. It's so that, when you try to gain support from others in the group/social circle, most won't believe you. (Don't worry about those "Flying Monkeys" as they're known - they're far too thick and narrow-minded for you...probably just milder Narcs or narcissistics, or outright cowards, themselves...and who needs even cowards/the disloyal for friends. So it's - Cheers, Narcipoos, for having cleared my decks of deadwood and other toxics (even just toxic 'in effect'). Smearing's mentioned in this following vid, but do watch the entire thing because it's relevant to the Devaluing-into-Discard you've unwittingly 'entered' (it's simply what comes next in their corrupted programme after the Love/Like-Bombing phase - our "Honeymoon Period") and are being subjected to - making you feel she's leaving *you* if you're not a good little lackey, for other friends. (In fact, to most victims' lament - they DON'T/WON'T leave. Not unless they get a better "sap". And they don't have true friendships except for Empaths anyway (and look what they do to THEM!...talking about, undeserving!) - they have scared Don't-Wannabe Victims, constantly keeping her placated AND FOCUSED ON YOU - google "Narcissism - The Scapegoat"). So it's actually HARD to get rid of them and make them stay away, unless circumstances are on your side (WHICH YOURS ARE, FINALLY (the geographical distance) - 'Praise dee Lawd!'). So watchez-vous, s'ilver plates (scuse Franglish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhD9WNYUdUY

And btw again - this is what happened and STILL happens to me... because, I'll tell you: you're ALWAYS going to encounter or find yourself heart-hooked (think, tangled in wire that after Love-Bombing, sprouts more and more barbs) at some point(s) by these pathetic, ridiculous, disturbing, even "scary" types. I'm sorry, but, I don't care what anyone else reckons: I've studied these idiots, even gone into r-ships or deliberately not-left-yet (for 'field study' purposes) MY ENTIIIIIIRE...LIFE! And I say that like that because I surpassed 'sick of the bsstds' a loooooooooooonnng time ago. There is no immunity. Being Co-Dependent, weakaned, still grieving, just not your normal Up self, simply makes you an easier mouthful for the lazy/counter-injured/really thick/bad at manipulation among them. The rest's egos NEED a challenge...to take strong, chirpy ones down and TURN them co-dependent, etc., etc. You can teach your cognitive side all the Red Flags until the cows come home but it won't do you any good as far as getting INTO a 'box' with them for many reasons, such AS: 1. We don't fall in-love or fondness with our intellect (unlike the fledgling Narcs who DO want and kid themselves they're qualified thus entitled to a relationship like everyone else). 2. You have to "be there" to not just spot things but FEEL them. It's our EMOTIONAL side that saves us - once we've had (La-La Land version) enough of having had enough. 3. Normal-Decents are PROGRAMMED to keep trying to fix a relationship, ESPECIALLY when you've got kids. Were they not, the whole human race would have died out by now (think about it). Trying and Loyalty is GOOD. Except with Narcs. 4. Sometimes, the person is just genuinely injured,...riddled in "Narc Fleas" (google), and WILL HEAL. An Empath will always give someone a chance, it's the only humane thing to do (blame your programming). I've met plenty of injureds who were just suffering "NVS" or "(C)PTSD" (google) whom it was worth being patient with and not taking it personally, and recovered and got back to their usual, delightful selves. When you help a monster to recover, however, you're just 'feeding the Monster' and they become a worse and WORSE friend. There's the diff that makes all the diff. And many-many more reasons, but the point is this: ANYONE can get (psychological version) lured into an enslaver or serial killer's van (watch the film, "Silence Of The Lambs"). Even psychiatrists get giant-hooked! - even Robert Hare himself, who developed the Hare Psychopathy Checklist ffs (it irritates him beyond belief!). So what makes YOU (not literally you) so special?! You see? You did NO-HO-HO-THING...wrong. YOU'RE JUST NORMAL, KIND, DECENT AND THEREFORE ATTRACTIVE TO NARCS who need to take-take-take benefit from that and you. Ber-bom. This is especially true of your Coverts and Covert-Vulnerables. They're practically ucking invisible. You just know you feel, amongst too many other neg. things (including nervy and getting ill too much), INCREDIBLY insecure and unsafe in the relationship, as well as, are no farther ahead after X years in terms of said security, than you were/would be after only about SIX MONTHS of dating/friendship. Is that ringing any bells? What matters - is realising the situation - and THEN, ASAP, identifying the Covert against all the Red Flags, especially in terms of how they make you feel/stop you feeling/DON'T make you feel though they should... then deciding, preparing (if poss), and escaping at the first beeping opportunity. And then (because their ego can't take being seen through and 'fired') watch them rip off their mask (only in front of you, still, however) and show you how nasty, cruel, cold-hearted, selfish, etc. they are (monstrous) to point of dread and fear setting in. (If they've no-one to puke into, they start projectile-vomiting in front of those they're trying to impress and lose them too...google Narcissistic Injury and Narcissistic Rage. And that's it (if you were born a kind person)! You can't always avoid Toxics/Narcs if they're DEEPLY covert. You can only DEAL with them. If you're wrong about them, what follows either will prove you are or...what happens, USUALLY, is you'e not wrong. Narcs, who have no conflict resolution skills nor much conscience, if any, tend only to throw fat onto the fire aka add insult to injury, meaning, rather than apologise they do a (google) "DARVO". (Never take that nonsense - go self-respectfully schtum on them, 'shut down' where they're concerned and protect yourself from the flying bullets and debris.) So!...back to what happened too shortly after I excised what turned out to be a Narc (finding normal friends is like a ruddy Lucky Dip these days!) last week and guess what happened? What ALWAYS happens (once, if you're injured, you've healed) - hence the saying, "When one door closes, another opens". Another friend who'd been fairly casual (but perfectly lovely) due to unsociable working hours, stepped majorly up, announcing she's changed her job, and would love us to get together more frequently and regularly from now on. Into the box I go...but if I DO spot OR FEEL dem Red Flags, I'll set my usual traps and tests, and if necessary, be outta there, faster than they could pick up a phone say: "Narcissistic Helpline - how can you help me?" :D I know what it is, even without circumstances helping... It's because YOU - having chucked that monkey off your back, no longer laden-down, even under your own awareness - suddenly "look" more attractive. After all - she needn't have even told me. On the other hand, some people are only meant to be stepping-stones. Those are friendship born of circumstance, of course. For a friend- or any-ship to last takes EMPATHY, MORALS and COURAGE in-common. You're quite lucky if, like in your case, you 'wake up and don't go back to sleep' while still IN the relationship as then you get to grieve (increasingly, once you've started) while still in it too, meaning, less or maybe even nothing left to grieve once you're O-U-T, out. Are these prattlings of mine helping?

You're Greek? Crikey! I don't think we've ever HAD a Greek on here? Not to my knowledge, anyway? How do I say 'Welcome!' in Greek? And what's life like there post-Brexit and Covid (and those trying to squeeze every last bit of juice out of it)?

"''So it must be nothing to do with you and all to do with them and why they'd want to give you the cold-shoulder. Are you a truth-speaker? Do you call out BS as you hear it? Narcs (and - google - Flying Monkeys) are WELL scared of truth speakers.'' I usually dont, but i keep it and i remember EVERYTHING. So when someone says something contrasting, i just go like:arent you the one who said...(whatever they said)" Then you vibe it. That'll do (they have predator senses and sizing-up skills). PS: but once big Empaths allow themselves to get acquainted with their OWN, usually deeply contained, psychopath (all humans have that side, ohh, yash) AND don't put them too far back in their 'cage' after the battle with said Narc - their (yes, and your) FIT, HEALTHY, HEROIC psychopath WINS HANDS-DOWN EVERY SINGLE TIME. No contest...which is precisely WHY they try to bind & gag you (think about it). She is FAR more scared of you. Or, you awake and angry enough to forget your injuries and *tame or squish her, definitely. "''Right...to clarify what I meant that you didn't understand: basically, cognitively, with this further proof of abormal, childish attitude and behaviour - you now know she's "Iffy" but it's too hard to know which Her is the Real Her - the nice her or the lying, 'bringing you down' (after just lifting you up - it's called giving with one hand while/then taking away again with the other and is a specialismm of Coverts).'' RIGHT! One moment shes love-bombing me and the other does stuff that makes me wonder if she actually gives a shit about me." RIGHT! Because she is - IS - a Covert. (Non-Narcs just don't behave like that.) Anyway - HIGH FIVE! Don't touch that dial (eyelids)! You're Wide Awake now (uh-oh...she's going down or is at least going to get 'a slapping', alright). ************************* ''No, but, seriously, folk: which stick in your mind that you'd love to watch again?'' Hard to decide, but i still think about that damn plot twist from Cruel intentions. I couldnt believe he was actually dead!" Cruel Intentions... Have I watched that one? I'll have to youtube it. "(tsk - WT, not MT) Haha-its ok, i seriously dont even remember my username" HAHAHAHHA! What does WT stand for (if you can say)? "What are you studying, and could you choose films that are relevant and would enhance your understanding of whatever from giving you the second-hand *experience* as well as the academic knowledge?" Im studying archaeology, and i choose the film most of the times anyways." Oh, so preumably you've already watched the Indiana Jones trilogy? Do, it's great fun...doesn't really date (apart from the slight sexism). First was best, though (as per usual). ""I can already see this whole experience is going to do you a MASSIVE favour/leg-up, I sincerely can." I honestly see it too,"" Oh, fantastic! We couldn't ask for anything better. :) "at the begining i seriously felt like i couldnt live without her (bit much i know)" NOPE - situationally normal and unavoidable. They get you ADDICTED - google How Do Narcissists Get You Addicted, or some such. You're getting a handy 'medical' here, as well - realising you're matching ALL of the Normal-Empath typical symptoms - so that's going to be very self-vindicating, too. Next comes, 'Crikey, I thought there must be something wrong with me to be attracting this type, but it's the opposite! I'm TOO gorgeous!' or if you get them a lot - 'I'm irresistible!'. Seriously...anyone who doesn't attract at least one in their life is either not that Empathetic and strong, not that somehow-charismatic/alluring, or lives on a desert island, and should probably take that as a sign to be a lot squishier WITH IT. And that's the key: fluffy bunny, but armed to the teeth just in case. Voila! - successful Gene Vehicle!...free to be themselves as nature (within reason) intended, free to be EVEN NICER. When you're tooled up and the Narc can finally tell - THEN they end it (albeit, still trying to keep the gate open in case they need you), but it looks more like, running off like the sly coward they intrinsically are. "but as time passed i realised i will be just fine, even alone. Best part of being a huge introvert is im not afraid of being lonely." You won't stay alone. Not once you're recovered. So ENJOY this 'holiday', getting to tend to yourself, get to know 'Yourself TODAY', trying new hobbies... All of this just helps you become eve better company anyway. Honestly, I kid you not: I have spent my entire life trying to have enough friends instead of too many to handle. I REFUSE to be a neglectful so-called Friend. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it PROPERLY. And that's how I know that Narcs will find ANY excuse to have a go at you and emotionally dump (or worse) on you. They literally have to come up with nonsense... like one Narc who (on being politely fired) spat: You think you're so damned perfect! I said: No. I just think I'm perfect at TRYING to be as perfect as I can be. I realise I won't ever be. Else, I wouldn't be human (du-uu-uuh?). But it's trying that makes us Nice. This was over the phone and all I heard in response was: "Uffff..." (defeated haha). SEE YA, NARCIPOOS - WOULDN'T WANNA BE YA. :P ""More DREAD of having to start over with a new target" I actually dread of having to start over, not with a target of course, but the thought that i will have to get to trully know someone, all from the begining terrifies me. With her im somewhat safe, i know everything she likes and doesnt, what makes her happy, what angers her. With someone new i will have to learn all of that all over again." 1. Yup. 2. But two - it's far less effort - the friendship makes and evolves ITSELF. 3. Healthies tend NOT to be so anger-triggerable, you'll find. They'll just discuss-with-concern like a normal person and the two of you will sort it out VERY simply and quickly (and bust a gut not to make that genuine mistake again). 4. The finding out, this time, is ENJOYABLE. 5. This is a false fear - but only natural. Finding a new Comfort Zone. A COMFORTABLE one. ""But this is just while you're gearing-up to deciding to dump. Which, I'm afraid, if they don't alter their attitude and behaviour and have a bit of bloody respect (means can't/won't/see no need to, LIKE things this way), by then, you will." When it comes to me, i dont think that i would ever dump her. We have too many memories, we have been through so much together, we saw each other grow up, i want to keep "seeing"her, see what kind of adult she turns into. And i want her to see me too. I guess now that i know better (all thanks to you!) i just wont let her stomp over me anymore."" I'm sure you WON'T let her stomp. But preventing and dodging that is VERY high-maintenance and time-consuming. I suggest you at least shuffle away out of the range of her 'flailing arms and legs'. If she's no longer capable of hurting you - you'll recover from your past injuries and present as socially attractive ANYWAY. It's the 'not having them always on your mind' bit. But the other problem is, once you've got them behaving, they're actually really boring and superficial people...quite thick, really... so they're STILL frustrating. Well, see how you go, that's all you CAN do, really, isn't it. But stay on here while you do so, okay? Keep chatting. It'll keep your confidence up (you have a secret weapon: me/this forum - just in case she can't be tamed/trained or it takes too much thought?). :)

(PS: they usually find any ways they can to ENSURE they're constantly playing on your mind; bear that in mind (google 'Narcissism lack of Object Constancy/Permanency").....but at least we'll get to tell WHERE on the spectrum she is, i.e. just a thorn in your side if you let her, or, secretly, one of Beelzebub's Little Helpers.)

PPS: "So when someone says something contrasting, i just go like:arent you the one who said...(whatever they said)"" So, then - YES, you ARE a Truth-Speaker. Good - never-never stop. Because as the famous quote goes: 'For evil to prevail ((even personally-petty but too-copious evil)) to prevail, just takes a few good men ((people)) to do nothing'. (IMO, if they DO do nothing - they don't fit the definition of Good.)

PPPS: "One moment shes love-bombing me and the other does stuff that makes me wonder if she actually gives a shit about me." EITHER (the severe) they truly don't give a shite about you OR they love you (or just like you) (depends on how good a (go goo) "Primary Supply" you are) one minute, then HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHATE you the next (go goo Narcissist - Splitting). They DO Love You, Love You Not, Love You, Love You Not. OR (severe maligs) they Love You Not, Pretend To Love You, Love You Not. So THAT'S why it FEEEEELS like that. Get it? Your emotional side is the one that rescues you. Your intelligence/intellect, teams up. Once you hit 'having had enough of I've Had Enough - no, wait... - yes - no, wait.., yes! - Have Had Eeeeeeeeee-NOUGH! is when YOU don't dump - your Inner Psychopathic-but-Nice Animal does. It mutineers you. You JUST...CAN'T... like them any more, no matter how much you feel sorry for them or have history with them. In severe cases, you feel as if they're Radioactive and don't even want to go to places you used to love but (damnit) took THEM to (that passes, though, especially if you overlay it with a positive visit with a real friend). ALL of that. Your shutter will come all the way down in-one: CLANGGG! You can't actually pause the conveyorbelt of the Recovery Path and go backwards. You're going, now, whether you like it or not. It's how it happens. So, as I say, the best you can achieve is to stay out-of-range of her barbs, kicks, punches, EMOTIONALLY. Say it with me: "Yeah, whadever, Trevor..." "Tell it to the hand cos the face ain't listening" (Like Catherine Tate's character, Lauren The Teenager) "Am I bovvered, tho? ((repeat, repeat))....Face? - Bovvered? - Face?..." "Can we change the topic now - this is boring, listening to you bitch-n-moan as usual" "Well...find OTHER friends, then, if I annoy you so much so often - what are ya - Supaglue-ed to me? (Want some solvent, ya fckr?)" "WHAT'S MY GRANNY'S NAME!!" (no answer/gets it wrong, despite you've talked about her more than once) "...In that case, you don't know me so aren't qualified to keep criticising, are you, Forrest/Forrestina". "Riiight...((siiiiiigh))...Are you going to "thscweam 'n thscweam until you're sthick now?" ((ref. Violet-Elizabeth from "Just William")) ...aaaand wait for the overgrown-toddler-type tantrum hahaha. Or (Covert) be ready for the covert-aggressive/passive-aggressive punch-back days/weeks later (first opportunity). These days - I do one with them, haha.... mimicking them but going OTT with the ridiculousness. Take the piss, basically. That way, *I* enjoy myself too! Fair's fair! HAHAHAHA. Just you standing-up for yourself enrages them. But if you 'take the Mickey' AS you do it - their head explodes, haha. But the Super-Nova (google) Empath Rule remains: Never hit first. Just hit back. Or ignore. PROPERLY. If you do things properly you don't ever have to go back and do them again - right? T'ain't Rocket-Science. Not once you've genned-up. (Still 'needless' Madness, though.) But anyway. I'll keep this thread open, too. Because I know what choice of items come NEXT on the menu (innit), whereas, this is 'your first rodeo'. Or IS it??? Have a thinkipoos... You might realise you 'met her before' in someone else's body?

Ah-hah! Google translate provides: Geia sas WT kai kalós írthate sto fóroum mas (ieró). Meíne óso théleis! :) (How was my accent. LOL)

I've just realised something: it's phonetically a bit similar to Armenian, but with just less Ds and Ks! Am I right?

I still can't get over the fact you're only 18, though. I mean - bloody Nora!? Slightly older friends.... Try it? I can even see you getting on really well with the tutors. You an Only Child? (Have I asked you that already?)

"I guess now that i know better (all thanks to you!) i just wont let her stomp over me anymore." Thank-you, but - you knew perfectly. You just lacked the language and vocabulary for it. Because we're not programmed for it. Take this in and remember it: "Understanding some people, is like trying to smell the colour 9".

"Cruel Intentions" sounds like it's about one aspect of the original and best (in terms of seeing what social predator-parasites are really like, and why they're called at-least EMOTIONALLY dangerous - hence) : "Dangerous Liaisons"). (Perpetually Angry mixed with Pathologically Bored, for one thing): It's a period piece so it hasn't dated - which is great because it leaves you free to notice every aspect of them: Dangerous Liaisons (starring Glenn Close, John Malcovicz, Michelle Pfieffer, Uma Thurman...oh, a full star cast!): https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1005199-dangerous_liaisons

'"You're Greek? Crikey! I don't think we've ever HAD a Greek on here? Not to my knowledge, anyway? How do I say 'Welcome!' in Greek? And what's life like there post-Brexit and Covid (and those trying to squeeze every last bit of juice out of it)?" Glad to represent my country then lol "Geia sas WT kai kalós írthate sto fóroum mas (ieró). Meíne óso théleis! :)" Thats pretty accourate! It translated foroum as sacred or temple (iero) for some reason lol probably from latin Aaah everything is a huge mess basically, i dont even know where to start... I havent been to uni for three weeks because we are protesting and everything is falling behind. "What does WT stand for (if you can say)?" Nothing, its just random letters haha i was very emotional when i made the first post and definitaly didnt stop to think of a username "Oh, so preumably you've already watched the Indiana Jones trilogy? Do, it's great fun...doesn't really date (apart from the slight sexism). First was best, though (as per usual)." I did, when i was a kid, so i dont remember much. I watched the one that came out last year though. "You won't stay alone. Not once you're recovered. So ENJOY this 'holiday', getting to tend to yourself, get to know 'Yourself TODAY', trying new hobbies... All of this just helps you become eve better company anyway." Ughh i am convinced im going to stay alone, it has happened before and i can already see it happening. Its been, around 8 months since she left and i have made 0 friends, or even people i can talk to casually and im not seeing any progress, especially now that im not going to uni anymore. The holiday has lasted too longg "Honestly, I kid you not: I have spent my entire life trying to have enough friends instead of too many to handle. I REFUSE to be a neglectful so-called Friend. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it PROPERLY. And that's how I know that Narcs will find ANY excuse to have a go at you and emotionally dump (or worse) on you. They literally have to come up with nonsense... like one Narc who (on being politely fired) spat: You think you're so damned perfect! I said: No. I just think I'm perfect at TRYING to be as perfect as I can be. I realise I won't ever be. Else, I wouldn't be human (du-uu-uuh?). But it's trying that makes us Nice." AAAA thats the best comeback i have ever heard!!!! Im fangirling for you "EITHER (the severe) they truly don't give a shite about you OR they love you (or just like you) (depends on how good a (go goo) "Primary Supply" you are) one minute, then HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHATE you the next (go goo Narcissist - Splitting)." She does love me, im sure about it, but the distance BROKE us, or at least me. We have never had a problem before. Do we even have a problem, or am i the only one who thinks so? I wonder about this a lot. "I've just realised something: it's phonetically a bit similar to Armenian, but with just less Ds and Ks! Am I right?' Hmmm, honestly i cant really hear it, but kinda yes, i guess, for my ears Armenian is a lot more harsh-sounding BUT i found out Greek is its closest relative in the indo-european languages and some letters of it are based on the Greek alphabet. So you probably heard right. Do you have Armenian roots? "still can't get over the fact you're only 18, though. I mean - bloody Nora!? I cant get over the fact that im 18 already hahaha, seriously i wanna go back "Slightly older friends.... Try it?" I will if they want me lol, i would try anything at this point "I can even see you getting on really well with the tutors. You an Only Child? (Have I asked you that already?)" You have, its ok! im not, i have an older brother. "Cruel Intentions" sounds like it's about one aspect of the original and best (in terms of seeing what social predator-parasites are really like, and why they're called at-least EMOTIONALLY dangerous - hence) : "Dangerous Liaisons"). (Perpetually Angry mixed with Pathologically Bored, for one thing): It's a period piece so it hasn't dated - which is great because it leaves you free to notice every aspect of them: Dangerous Liaisons (starring Glenn Close, John Malcovicz, Michelle Pfieffer, Uma Thurman...oh, a full star cast!):" I didnt know that! I will definatelly be watching this!

PS: be with you asap. Oh, and btw - after you watch that, straight after, watch "Hard Candy". It starts to seem hard to watch at first - but only because you're led to THINK it is - but then you realise what's actually going on and are suddenly jumping up and down on your chair/bed, going, 'You go girl!'. Soooo intelligent and well thought-out - you're made a part of the film, is the only way I can describe it without giving anything away. One of my favourite, favourite psychological thrillers/'horrors', along with "Alien" with Signourney Weaver. And "Predator", of course. Others might be a bit heavy for you. My faves tend to provide plausible Closure...none of that vague, keeping you wondering, just to irritate your mind to keep the film ON your mind and having to talk about it with others (cheating at free marketing, anyone?) and disguising the fact by claiming it 'intellectual', 'open to interpretation'. Being left hanging is just plain disappointing and dissatisfying (despite SOME genuinely warrant a missing last page). Other triumph-over-adversity, 'to-conclusion' ones which I can think of right this very sec., are: Papillon (remake still good, but original perfect and still going strong) The Shawshank Redemption (what a feast of fun justice...clever surprises all over the shop) "Double Jeopardy" (just fab!) "Thelma & Louise" (you'll see why it's still famous - just plain, woah) "The Taking of Pelham 123" "The Fugitive" starring Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford (in case they've brought out a re-make...seems to be a lot of that going on, lately). "Happyness" "The Usual Suspects" (TOO good, pure genius!) And if you like Chinese films (stunning photography and acting and bloody good plots!), try, "Raise The Red Lantern" and "To Live" (both starring Gong Li). And there's another cracker I can't quite remember the name of yet... ...crikey...can't think...got TOO many faves to recall, that's why. "Laters"

Oh - ""The Usual Suspects" (TOO good, pure genius!)" isn't triumph over adversity. It's just clever, gripping, intriguing, and fun all the way. Including the end, especially. Ones that make you think and you enjoy using your brain like that. Brain-pumping Gym while all you know is, you're having fun. Don't you just love fun stuff with hidden benefits?

Wait - "The Truman Show" starring Jim Carey. In fact, ANY film starring Jim Carey. Equally - Melissa McCarthy. Hysterical. Oh YES - Jim Carey - "The Cable Guy". Comedy, but - effing true (bar the overly optimistic ending, but you forgive it, for having been so funny yet educational beforehand.) Melissa: "Bridesmaids" (prepare to wet your pants)..... The one co-starring Sandra Bullock - "The Heat" (ditto)........ "Ghostbusters" - (ditto) - WAY better than the original thanks to her and Kristin Wig ("Vig"), and the other one whose name I've forgotten where she plays a narcissitic-sociopath-scammer...is it "Identity Thief"? Think so, yeah.... She and Carey CRACK me up. Really Happy-Making films, REALLY good for battling anxiety (couple of years back). Right - beddibyes, it's 6 bleedin a.m. here (my own fault, I had a lie-in this mor- no, yesterday morning).

...Remembered another handful: "Jacob's Ladder" (uniquely mindbending in a good way); "Being John Malcovicz" (HIGHLY original, keeps you thinking); "There's Something About Mary (when not gaffaw-ing, you're constantly giggling, again, highly original); "Rabbit-Proof Fence" (serious and amazing); "Slumdog Millionnaire" (kid-enslavement, triumph over adversity, overall a 'Feelgood'). _______________________________ "(But anyway. I'll keep this thread open, too. Because I know what choice of items come NEXT on the menu (innit), whereas,) this is 'your first rodeo'. Or IS it??? Have a thinkipoos... You might realise you 'met her before' in someone else's body?" Identified anyone(s) from your past yet? "Aaah everything is a huge mess basically, i dont even know where to start... I havent been to uni for three weeks because we are protesting and everything is falling behind." THREE WEEKS?! What are you guys protesting about, specifically? And what form is that protesting taking - marching around with banners and chanting or just downing-tools? Assuming you agree with it - have you tried offering any of the protestors your help? Now THAT would be a good in-road to forging contacts! Otherwise, you're going to need these films, eh! LOL __________________________________ Am I up-to-date with everything or have I left anything unaddressed? Oh yes! Fairly long-term steady, both parents Armenian, Bilingual family, bar the mother, so they all spoke both (but constantly translating for me, thoughtful, considerate sweeties that they were) and I picked up a lot of stuff (as did mum). Mainly 'sweet-nothings', like (phonetically) Kez shaarrd em szeeroom, Nabasdak (I love you, Bunny - ahhhhhh, haha). ...Not the mother, obviously, HAHAHA! That was more your, Please would you pass the jam...Thanks. I've always had however-much foreign friends. I don't like echo-chambers, I like to learn from any experience...swapping data and wisdom, being "deep and heavy", peppered with mucking around, being playful. Which reminds me: it helps majorly to re-name the puppy. So, knowing what's up with her now - what secret nickname would you give your "sweet 'n sour", falsely-supportive friend? Can you think of anything witty that sums-up her worst side? BTW, what's your weather system been like? Didn't you have forest-fires galore last Summer as well? What about now, during Winter? Any uncharacteristic monsoons...twisters...snow? (- wouldn't put it past any hot country these days!). You've got to have amazing staying-power and 'addiction' to intrigue to be an archeaologist, haven't you. Like historical detectives. Sometimes literally - finding now-fossilized human bones and working out some VIP was murdered, for example. You must get a lot of archeologists stumbling on fresh murder-victims as well, and calling the Police, surely? One last Q for now: So, you've the memory of an elephant, eh? That's a rare talent, that is. What's your very first memory, what age were you?

Wait - just remembered! "I basically make small paintings, and sell them at souvenir-tourist shops. However, i kida hate it lol. I love painting and drawing, but i have to make whatever the client wants, and its usually stuff i hate. And then i have to make the same thing 100 times. Sometimes i actually like the designs though. I used to be really into drawing realistic portraits, but i somehow convinced myself i suck and stopped drawing, untill the business thing came up" Me, I adore miniatures...miniature anythings (with a few exceptions, haha)... Haven't you guys tried selling them over the internet? That way, you get to decide the subject/style and put the *finished item* up for sale, but at the same time (if you want) offering custom paintings, e.g. portrait of existing or deceased pets (that's very popular), and/or loved-ones, working from a photo. ? And then, each piece is unique, which fetches a higher price. "Etsy", for prime example? Loads of good quality art & craft-makers on there. (Or do you have a website yet?) What are your media - Goache on canvas? Watercolour? Your own method? Are you in a tourist hot-spot, then? And IS your sea that incredibly greeny-yellowy-blue? ...which reminds me, haha... (this is a scream!): YouTube Shorts: Adrian Bliss: "Picasso tries to sell a painting": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXuhJAcGpL4

Wow thanks for the recommendations! Im planning to watch one of the Chinese ones you said today "Identified anyone(s) from your past yet?" Hmm i definitely see some common traits with my previous best friend, even if they are completely different "THREE WEEKS?! What are you guys protesting about, specifically? And what form is that protesting taking - marching around with banners and chanting or just downing-tools? Assuming you agree with it - have you tried offering any of the protestors your help? Now THAT would be a good in-road to forging contacts! Otherwise, you're going to need these films, eh! LOL" The government wants to introduce private universities, which are a huge treat to the public ones and education overall. Students with money will have to basically do nothing to get into a private university, while the other ones will have to work extremely hard to get into public ones, which are also under funded. Not to mention that a degree from a public uni will be considered inferior to a private one. Marching happens, but the reason we don't go to uni is because the students basically take over the building and shut it down. That is supposed to apply pressure to the government because nothing is working anymore. Its also very illegal, but noone really cares. Most of the professors agree with it too. "BTW, what's your weather system been like? Didn't you have forest-fires galore last Summer as well? What about now, during Winter? Any uncharacteristic monsoons...twisters...snow? (- wouldn't put it past any hot country these days!)." We have forest fires every summer, but the winter has been somewhat mild this year "You've got to have amazing staying-power and 'addiction' to intrigue to be an archeaologist, haven't you. Like historical detectives. Sometimes literally - finding now-fossilized human bones and working out some VIP was murdered, for example. You must get a lot of archeologists stumbling on fresh murder-victims as well, and calling the Police, surely?" Haha yes we do try to figure out how people died, but most of the time all we can do is make assumptions. Fresh murders, hmm i havent heard of any yet. "One last Q for now: So, you've the memory of an elephant, eh? That's a rare talent, that is. What's your very first memory, what age were you?" I wouldn't say so, im usually not very good at memorising stuff, i have to revise constantly to actually remember something. My first memory, i have no idea if its a dream, a real memory of something i imagined, so i cant really tell "Me, I adore miniatures...miniature anythings (with a few exceptions, haha)..." HAHAHA agreed though, miniatures are really cute. Isn't it weird that we could look at a completely ordinary object and find it adorable because its small? "What are your media - Goache on canvas? Watercolour? Your own method? Are you in a tourist hot-spot, then? And IS your sea that incredibly greeny-yellowy-blue?" Mostly acrylic on wood or stone. I dont live in a very touristic area, but its close to some. The colour of the sea completely depends on the area, but that colour definitely exists lol "Am I up-to-date with everything or have I left anything unaddressed?" Oh, yes i wanted to ask your opinion on why that happend "Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but:" "She used to be fine when we were together. Even when she did piss me off, i would always get over it in seconds because every time we talked, i would just forget about everything. She was awesome, made me feel special and everything. Nothing i said or did was getting judged,we talked about everything, she was always there for me and overall the perfect best friend. When she said something that annoyed me, she would always apologize before i build the courage to speak up. I think thats why i struggle to do so now, because i haven't done it before." Why do you think that everything was fine when we were together?

"Narc (La-La Land) version of Jesus, knocking on a front door: Let me in! Home-Owner: Why? Narc Jesus: So I can save you. Home-O (careful how you say that haha): From what? Narc Jesus: From what I'm going to do to do you if you don't let me in.

Ooops! Thought I was posting that on the other thread (I'm thinking on it, bit distract3ed)! Never mind - free joke, haha. "Oh, yes i wanted to ask your opinion on why that happend "Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but:" "She used to be fine when we were together. Even when she did piss me off, i would always get over it in seconds because every time we talked, i would just forget about everything. She was awesome, made me feel special and everything. Nothing i said or did was getting judged,we talked about everything, she was always there for me and overall the perfect best friend. When she said something that annoyed me, she would always apologize before i build the courage to speak up. I think thats why i struggle to do so now, because i haven't done it before." Why do you (suppose) that everything was fine when we were together?" Thanks for the reminder! I'll answer those two either later tonight or tomorrow night, failing that, Wednesday. I have READ your latest - it's just, getting the time AND wanting my mind free for you. Meanwhile, you forgot to answer whether you want to sieze the opportunity to make new acquaintances-into-friends? Loyalty....BEING IN THE SAME BOAT...AS CO-VICTIMS....is a brilliant bonder (just tactfully slow down anyone who goes too fast, too soon, because even for non-narcs, that's not a good idea; you need to do a FULL test-drive, under LOTS of conditions - which takes time - before you hand your money over for any 'car').

Also - and do you have a website yet? *Just yes or no*, I'm not asking you to identify yourself by posting a link or anything (crikey, no!).

"Meanwhile, you forgot to answer whether you want to sieze the opportunity to make new acquaintances-into-friends? Loyalty....BEING IN THE SAME BOAT...AS CO-VICTIMS....is a brilliant bonder (just tactfully slow down anyone who goes too fast, too soon, because even for non-narcs, that's not a good idea; you need to do a FULL test-drive, under LOTS of conditions - which takes time - before you hand your money over for any 'car')." I have tried- don't think that im entirely antisocial- buut i just dont seem to click with anyone, conversation is always forced and repetitive, and i hate that ALOT. I realise that it's only the beginning and things might get better, who knows? "Also - and do you have a website yet? *Just yes or no*, I'm not asking you to identify yourself by posting a link or anything (crikey, no!)." No, unfortunately a website isn't going to work out for us. In the meantime an update: Bestie is coming over for the weekend because there is huge festival going on, and she is bringing some of her friends to come to the festival and stay in her house. Yesterday she texted me that she misses me so much, and how much she loves me, and a few hours later, she says: oh and by the way, my friends are staying over so I won't be seeing you. I knew that they would be coming along already, im such an idiot, that i assumed she would tell me to come along with them. I think that out of everything, this is the most hurtful thing she's done. She knows that i have noone else to go with, and literally no reason not to take me with them. I dont understand, does she not want me to meet them? When she said that i replied: oh so I won't be meeting your friends? And she said: I don't think that you want to Like, whats that supposed to mean? I literally said i want to meet them. In my culture, it is considered a shame not to go out that night, and its extremely shitty of her to leave me alone on that day. Plus i already told my mum that she's coming over, so when i tell her im not going out shes going to ask questions. What am i supposed to say, that's shes full of shit? Im afraid im going to cry if this conversation comes up. Ugh seriously im so done with her. If she does ask me to go, my pride is killing me to say no, but i do want to leave the house.

Heya! Be with you asap - weekend latest!

Bumping you up for tomorrow - you're my first stop! But just quickly: "What am i supposed to say, that's shes full of shit?" Yup! And don't forget, pettily-but-not-so-pettily, downright Sadistic (and don't you know-know-know it now!). "Im afraid im going to cry if this conversation comes up." Afraid to do what's natural - with whom it's natural to do so??? Explain, please? It's just one night in the grand scheme of things. You're human so you'll recover and get over her. She'll always be her, always with the same 'Groundhog Day'....never getting anywhere. NEVER knowing what it feels to be loved nor contented, let alone liked or happy. Relationally, she's a ticking timebomb. Anyway - more tomorrow. ((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))))) PS: I can hear you need to type out her Rap Sheet. Trust me, it'll make you feel distinctly unloaded and soothe an awful lot of the pain. Start it tonight/in the morning if you like? On here is best; it'll help me to help you more.

PS: Ref your title. In fact, it's she who, amongst other self-created resentments at you, is jealous OF YOU. And not just jealous - PATHOLOGICALLY jealous - *hence*...(insert rap sheet). Google 'Narcissistic Pathological Envy and how it works". Might be exceedingly eye-opening for you. She's not treating you like this because you're pants. She's treating you like this because you're SO not pants - and she is...and can't find you inferior to her (which her ego desperately needs)...hence is trying to bring and keep you LOW. Lower than her. So she gives you sh*t AND offloads her own sh*t onto you. Victims aren't not lovely enough, they're "TOO" lovely. The girl wishes she WERE you. (Haven't you caught her coping you, your little affections, sayings, style...anything? Or does she take it to these friends so she can "be you" in secret? It's a Yes. And that's why you can't be included. Or you'd see and EVERYONE would see. (They're like fecking parrots!)

She's probably telling them whoppers as well.

Aw, what the heck, it's the weekend, I can siesta - I'll do it now. This is by a Brenda Massey on Quora, who puts things very well (clearly a victim-survivor), in response to this question: "How do narcissists have any kind of social life or maintain “friends” when their behavior is so erratic and unpredictable? I’ve recently met someone who is a narcissist and I’m having trouble with their “silent treatments” and other behavior." (Double brackets mine)) (Brenda) ....."Narcissists don’t have friends. They have supply. Most people know they have several acquaintances and possibly a handful of true friends in their life. Narcissists either believe everyone is his friend or no one is (usually the loner narcissist has some sociopathic traits mixed in). It is impossible to be friends with a narcissist because he will never allow anyone to get close enough to create or maintain a true friendship. If anyone makes the “mistake” of successfully breaking down his walls that person will be devalued and swiftly discarded. It is one of the rare times a narcissist will not hoover the person who was discarded because he has seen a raw part of the narcissist. This person is now seen as a threat because he saw a moment of the narcissist’s true personality and weakness. What you see surrounding a narcissist is not a group of friends but a group of admirers and enablers. Everyone you see there, no matter how beautiful or successful, is weak and easily led. When you first meet a narcissist he is of course charming and funny, with a light in his eyes and an ability to say the right things at the right moments. Eventually, as is the case with all of his relationships, you see a different side to this person. He makes cutting remarks, he takes from you and doesn’t give anything in return, you can never count on him. You become resentful because of the way he treats you but then you see all of these other seemingly amazing people embrace him and wonder if it’s all in your head. It isn’t. The reason these friends can’t see his behavior is because his behavior is only erratic and unpredictable with you. He isn’t standing the group up, hurting their feelings or humiliating them with the silent treatment. Yet. A devaluation stage with a narcissist isn’t always overtly in your face and it doesn’t always quickly move into a discard. Sometimes little jabs and little moments of sabotage can go on for years. You will convince yourself that’s just the way the narcissist is, he didn’t mean it, you’re too sensitive, he’s your friend. Perhaps there are others in the group who are experiencing tiny little cuts but because the cuts are so tiny and only occur every once in a while, it hasn’t been enough for the group members to walk away. But let’s focus on you for a second: you say you’re having issues with the narcissist’s silent treatment. There are certain behaviors which occur with certain groups of people. You will always deal with anxiety attacks with those who have an anxiety disorder. You will always deal with missing items when around a kleptomaniac. You will always deal with sleepless nights when dating a drug addict. You will always deal with silent treatments as long as a narcissist is in your life. ((...AND the rest of it!)) Silent treatments aren’t an issue in narcissism, it’s a behavior. You can’t sit him down and make this behavior go away. He won’t stop even if he promises to. It is what he gives when he has been angered, when he is jealous, when he is bored, when he needs an easy escape, when he needs entertainment, etc. It will never end. If this person is someone you would like to keep in your life, know there is no getting around the cycle of Idealize Devalue and Discard, for anyone. There is no getting around a silent treatment, which can last days or months. During these silent treatments you can choose to patiently wait it out for the narcissist to return (he will) as if you never parted and with no explanations. Of course he will have smeared you to whomever would listen and defamed your character and when others find out you two are on speaking terms again he will say he returned to you out of the goodness of his heart. If you dated him, know he spent his time with other women until you calmed down from the normal reaction you gave him during his gaslighting, stonewalling and crazy-making. He will be back if you disappear and he needs to hunt you down or until he re-idealizes you again. In the meantime what you can do is readjust what you believe this friendship is because once you can see what’s actually happening and not what the narcissist is telling you is happening, your life will be easier. Don’t be fooled by anything in a narcissist’s life, including groups of friends and family who enable him. These people actually are fools who believe the years they’ve known the narcissist or the sick hoovering and harassment they’ve engaged in on behalf of the narcissist has shielded them from his wrath. They’re no more protected than you and I. A narcissist is loyal to no one and will attack anyone who is a perceived threat. Because these friends have seen years of chaos and cruelty and know all of the narcissist’s secrets it has only bought them more time and ensured their discard will end in flames." _____________________________________________ Here's another high likelihood for you: She isn't seeing anyone or going ANYWHERE, but will be damned if she'll let YOU think that. So she lies (or grossly exaggerates) because she's (always) competing against you and trying to use the Scarcity Principle on you (buy me before stocks run out!!!). She wants you to chase after her/pump-up her ever-deflating ego, and even harder than ever before to (wait for it) compensate for the fact she's now in Young Adult territory (university), not still at school with less wise, savvy, informed, experienced, KIDS. I'm sure she's being seen-through an awful lot, now. And pretty-much instantly. Not least because she DOES only fit and make sense in a school playground setting with kids her age. At Uni, she's sticking out like a sore thumb for the CHILD IN GROWN-UP SUIT that she is....and this latest stunt prove-prove-proves it, HENCE, why she BASICALLY said, You don't want to (meet them). Mystery solved. When they tell you wouldn't want to go, wouldn't like it, yadder-yadder, it's either because you'd ruin their false image and lies OR because THERE ISN'T ANY 'PARTY' (or if there is - she/he ain't invited). If it's NOT a lie, then, it's preservation of her lies AND, as the article says, she simply hasn't needed to turn any of THEM into her personal, toxicity-puking/dumping toilet. Yet. She's still trying to impress them to win them round...which will be taking her longer these days, requiring her to work/fake-it FAR harder than in the good old days...needing to discharge the ickiness of BEING NICE TO PEOPLE by calling in at her pit stop (you). She will (prematurely!) pick on another person the minute YOU bow-out, though. Why don't you bow out...make up some reason why you won't be able to see her for the next 6-8 weeks - anything she can't disprove (Out Narc-ing The Narc - lie using their fave: Plausible Deniability).... E.g. got Covid so just gonna self-quarantine and study-study-study. Or just one Cold bug after another. Whatever. Just so's she has to use someone else as a toilet for the first time. Someone from that group, maybe. I'm going to give it to you straight. Bear in mind you've got me/this place - and can talk to/respond to others here, too: Having this Narcissistic-Sociopath (oh yes - the sadism proves it) in your life and in your mind (even at times you aren't aware you're thinking/processing about her), makes your vibe off-putting to healthies. Try a break and see if it's like someone waved a magic wand. As for repetitive conversation: yeah, that's Uni for ya. YOU NEED A CLUB. You can talk about the interest/hobby, which WON'T be repetitive because your skill and produce will be evolving the whole time. What fun art/skill - or indeed, fun group sport - has always appealed to you? Any extra-curricular clubs/groups at your Uni? You need to be chatting as you're doing or learning something, and be in the same boat. Can you think of anything? Reason I ask is because of this fact: you're at your most attractive you'll ever be, when you're doing something you love, something new and fascinating or something challenging.... when engrossed and having fun. Fac-e-tah. So tuh-ry one. Si?...worth a think? This snub is an opportunity to call Time Out or Dealbreaker. But it'll be easier if you sign up to some club. Or, indeed - start one!

Hey! Im going to answer to yours later, cause i have an update: things somehow got even worse: at friday she texted me if i wanted to go out with them at night, as i said my pride was killing me to say no but i wanted to go out, so i said yes. Then she told me that it wasn't sure they were going, and she was going to tell me for sure in a while. I waited for hours and nothing. In the end i texted her: i assume we aren't going and she just replied: no The next day she said that her friends ended up getting very drunk and i, now very suspicious said: you guys got drunk inside the house for what? And she just said, i dont know At this point i was sure that they had just gone out without me, so i found one of her friends on Instagram whose account wasn't private, and surely enough he had posted a story from outside. Now to be fair, he could have gone by himself with other people, but what are the chances? Im sure that if we talk in the future, i will be able to find out for sure. She also said that she was going for cofee with her personal trainer, while the rest of the group was meeting someone else. She chose to meet her PERSONAL TRAINER and not her best friend when she had the chance. Im acting like i don't care anymore, isn't that the best thing to do?

Oh also, you forgot to answer this: "Oh, yes i wanted to ask your opinion on why that happend "Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but:" "She used to be fine when we were together. Even when she did piss me off, i would always get over it in seconds because every time we talked, i would just forget about everything. She was awesome, made me feel special and everything. Nothing i said or did was getting judged,we talked about everything, she was always there for me and overall the perfect best friend. When she said something that annoyed me, she would always apologize before i build the courage to speak up. I think thats why i struggle to do so now, because i haven't done it before." Why do you (suppose) that everything was fine when we were together?" Thanks for the reminder! I'll answer those two either later tonight or tomorrow night, failing that, Wednesday.

PS: See how she deliberately soft-soaped you in preparation so that you'd REALLY feel the ensuing blow? If she were standing in front of us right now, I WOULD tear strips off her (her false ones) until she was in the foetal position for you. That's how dis-GUSTING the spoiled baby is! "Mostly acrylic on wood or stone." I bloody love that stuff! And you're deep so I'll bet they're bloody good. Most, these days, however, tend to be images printed onto wood, where you see the texture of the grain mixed-in with the image (the *visible* notches everywhere destroy or interfere with the image, though...too prominent. Hand-painted is superior, and is you putting 'you' into it. Any reeason why you couldn't start an art class?...talk it over with your uni admin department? You'd be teacher! Sell the idea on the basis that these would make low-cost Xmas and Birthday gifts - and include other forageable media, e.g., painting large pebbles (I've got one with just a message, that goes, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy'...I barely drink but it made me laugh because I love plays on words/phrases? I mean, whom in your age-group can even afford shop-bought presents any more? Idea? YOU'RE AN ARTIST...INSIGHTFUL (- think about it!..planning your creation in your head before or as you start to paint) CREATIVE - *THOSE* TYPES ARE *BOUND* TO BE YOUR 'BIRDS OF A FEATHER' with whom you should be 'flocking together' (know that saying - Birds of a feather, flock together?). I realise you won't feel like it just yet while you're having to get over this (hopefully) Final Insult, as I call it. It is SO horrid - I know. But - you need a project, that's what you need (is what all victims need, frankly). Meantime, read all the other Posters' threads and see if one grabs you so much, you forget any nervousness about replying...once you do that, it's easy-peasy from there. You have rich and valuable experience to share so that OTHER posters don't keep thinking there must be something wrong with THEM. Helping - or even just being there/being friendly and chatty, and focusing on other people in trouble, is THE fastest way to repair the chunks bitten off your poor ego and self-esteem. You could even draft it here before you post it if you want me to check it sounds okay (part of the mentoring I offer). Or just read them to appreciate that what's happening to you is and has been happening to millions of lovely, decent people out there? You are NOT alone and friendless. Consider this your personal club where you can be true You and with full liberty to unload your feelings, until you're ready to 'fly the nest'. PLUS, it's something interesting and different that you can talk about! Other empaths will be interested....consider it a piece of Litmus Paper. If they're interested - fellow Empath; if not - "Neext!...". And for your reassuring information - I find nothing wrong with you, enjoy your posts/chatting to you, am in total awe that you're only 18 AND YET I feel like I'm talking to an equal, despite you still naturally lack *experience* (you've got the rest of the Whole Package though - including higher than average maturity) ... it honestly not you. It's her, and how she makes you feel (un-attractive, uninteresting, all of that 'trying to solve the mystery' by blaming yourself because at least it seems to explain her madness (nope)... She's a rotten COW - and b*tch. All on top of, nutjob. UGH. Not fit to lick your boots WT. AND SHE KNOWS IT (because she behaves it). Don't worry...feeling this horrible way never lasts. It's not the new you or anything (very common fear). More a rite of passage that practically everyone here - and everywhere! - has been through. And PPS - the Why (which, to Normals, is too petty for words but how their mental disorder makes them see/think/feel)... Note the common denominator. Me: "Nope. Nope-nope-nope: the admission that she lacked friends suddenly, was true. At that point, she was too low for pride to get a look in (she must have been on the floor!). But, all too soon, her ego kicked back into puffed-up-ness, meaning, she couldn't take having made herself that vulnerable to you...the thought was making her cringe. So what did she do? What they all do: lied that everything was suddenly transformed for the better." Brenda: "It is impossible to be friends with a narcissist because ((she)) will never allow anyone to get close enough to create or maintain a true friendship. If anyone ((you)) makes the “mistake” of successfully breaking down ((her)) walls that person will be devalued ((which is what's been happening since)) and swiftly ((- not necessarily swiftly)) discarded. This person ((you)) is now seen as a threat because ((you)) saw a moment of the narcissist’s true personality and weakness." (They cannot STAND the fact someone saw them 'small' and NOT cocksure at all. It makes them feel bad and ("cuckoo!") resentment at you...and that then becomes YOUR fault for which you must be punished with said massively ((- Pathological-level)) out-of-proportion resentment ("cuckoo!").) Basically, you got to see that the 'Emperor' was NOT wearing any fine, new clothes (know that story too?). Someone getting to see how Vulnerability is their (warped/arse-about-face) Kryptonite, where we normals feel RELIEVED and more bonded than ever before. They don't work right. They're like out-of-order vending machines whereby there's no sign telling you, the 'customer', so you end up shoving in more and more good money after bad (the Investment Principle) until you feel cheated and made a fool of. It's them that are the fools, though. So DO NOT change You - change your friend (Fiend/Frenemy). Right Qualities - Yours; WRONG Recipient - Her.

And a PS to Brenda: They're not fools, Brenda (you have more self-educating to do). They are The Fooled. Diff/all the diff. But yes to weak-minded (all except for you - that's "your trouble" (not)). Oh, you've posted again! Hi! Hang on...

"Im acting like i don't care anymore, isn't that the best thing to do?" Absobloodylutely, it is! They cannot - LITERALLY cannot - tolerate or handle being ignored. It'll tip her into Narc Rage (they barely any self-regulation and -control ability to begin with!), and she won't be able to help but act/react badly or explosively (hair-triggerable) in front of those she's trying to impress - including her ...PERSONAL TRAINER? Who has coffee with their, basically, short-term employee? Answer: those desperate for company-any-company - and from the PT's point of view, those that have registered and understood the tactic condition to keeping said client: be my "new friend" to crow about to my victim and make her feel Less Than even someone paid to be with me - and I'll continue to be your client. I wouldn't be so sure she was there. How much would you be willing to virtual-bet on that? I'd put up a good 100 Quid... She NEEDS you. Think of yourself as her make-up-bag. Without you, she's actually too ugly to mix with others. You're her unwitting Enabler (google). So it's like this: just by sensibly (keeping your eyes on the prize of new, better friends coming into your life) removing yourself from her vicinity, her make-up falls off and those she's trying to impress and hook, run away screaming (well, shuffle - or ghost....cowards, remember?). But she'd never tell YOU that. Or you'd grow in confidence, and she can't have that! GOLD STAR!

Hey! I have been feeling terrible overall this week plus i have been having some insane mood swings and on top of that my mom got sick. I texted my friend again (i wasn't supposed to i know) but she replied, came up a million excuses about why she didn't take me with her, told me how much she misses me and that the reason she doesn't talk to me that much anymore is because she knows that no matter what i will be there.( I interpret it as: i know you dont have anyone else, so you'll put up with anything)Then she proceeded to drag her new friends, saying that she doesn't trust them, she cant really talk to them, that they call her a liar and that one of them called her a slut for making out with a random guy. ( I wish i could send you screenshots of our conversations at this point) I barely replied anything and i feel worse than i did when we weren't talking.

"Im afraid im going to cry if this conversation comes up." Afraid to do what's natural - with whom it's natural to do so??? Explain, please?" Ah yes crying and me have a complicated relationship. Every time i say "crying" i mean it metaphorically, because i havent been able to cry in about 5 years, i think, at least not from any negative emotion- or physical pain ( i cry from laughter all the time) but never when im in pain. I have no idea why and its extremely frustrating.

"Victims aren't not lovely enough, they're "TOO" lovely. The girl wishes she WERE you. (Haven't you caught her coping you, your little affections, sayings, style...anything? Or does she take it to these friends so she can "be you" in secret?" Im not seeing a reason why anyone, especially her would be would to be me, or even be jealous of me. I am forgettable. Noone approaches me, noone wants to be my friend. She is basically the better version of me. She shines everywhere she goes and naturally attracts people. The only thing i attract is the force of gravity. Im sorry that im speaking like this about myself but this is one of my bad, BAD days. And it's all true. Im insecure to the point that if someone came up at me and told me they like me, i would think its a prank and wait for the cameras to pull up.

"PS: I can hear you need to type out her Rap Sheet. Trust me, it'll make you feel distinctly unloaded and soothe an awful lot of the pain. Start it tonight/in the morning if you like? On here is best; it'll help me to help you more." I have no clue what a rap sheet is. I googled it, apparently its a criminal record? Do you mean to list everything bad she has done? I have told you all of it already, as i said, our relationship was perfect before she moved away. I always thought we were soulmates, we were like the same person in a different front, me the introvert and her, the extrovert. We were opposites at everything, but we fit together perfectly. I was always aware that i was her "side kick" but i was fine with that. I felt honoured that out of the people she was friends with, she chose me to be her best friend. If you know about the sixteen personalities, it will help you understand the dynamics between us. Im an infp and she is an enfj. The mediator and the protagonist.

Heya! Sorry about the delay - horrendously busy week! Aiming to post tomorrow or Sunday latest. But yes - Emotional Crime Sheet. It'd be best to start one now, from the very first thing/change you noticed, no matter how slight or subtle.

Had trouble with the internet connection - sozzies. Just bumping you up for tomorrow. :)

Mar 19 2024 at 21:13/1st post: "Hey! I have been feeling terrible overall this week plus i have been having some insane mood swings and on top of that my mom got sick." I'm so sorry. What's she got? "I texted my friend again (i wasn't supposed to i know)" Weren't you? Who said? I thought you were going to start slowly re-training her first? Just to be sure-sure-sure she can't be/is not healthy to keep in your life? "but she replied, came up a million excuses about why she didn't take me with her," Tell me aboudid... 'people' with NPD all have basically the same playbook, narrative and script... What did your text say? Precisely how long did she take to read and then reply? " told me how much she misses me and that the reason she doesn't talk to me that much anymore is because she knows that no matter what i will be there." WHAT THE SERIOUS F*CK???????????????? OH MY GOD. I can't remember the last time I heard cockiness and over-entitled-entitlement(!) THAT HUGE! BLOODY HELL, WT - WHAT THE - WHAT?!?! "( I interpret it as: i know you dont have anyone else, so you'll put up with anything)" WORSE THAN THAT!?! - "I OWN YOU...AT MY CONVENIENCE AND MINE ALONE". I am...woah... speechless but SO INSULTED on your behalf! This has---I'm stuttering. I didn't realise she was this big/serious. Yeah - no, you can't 'live' with that, mate - no way. You're going to have to ditch. Not only that, but your life is soooo going to improve like bloody magic once you've grieved her the rest of the way out - trust me on that! OMG. "Then she proceeded to drag her new friends, saying that she doesn't trust them, she cant really talk to them, that they call her a liar and that one of them called her a slut for making out with a random guy. ( I wish i could send you screenshots of our conversations at this point)" In other words, they've seen through her, and she doesn't trust that they'll be the 'adoring' fan that you are (were) (just because you were too young to know a thing about NPD/AsPD). (They're not.) Can I do my Toldja So dance now? (said wryly, regretfully) "I barely replied anything and i feel worse than i did when we weren't talking." What exactly did you say? And - yes - of course you do. She made sure of that. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SHE DOES WHENEVER SHE NEEDS A VICTIM TOO ON-THE-FLOOR TO DEFEND HERSELF. But you've said you barely said anything (actions! - Gold Star!) so - HAH! to (arrogance like that? - no question!) Narcospathypoo-poos. Now you're going to grieve because you've seen for yourself this time with eyes wider-opened, that your once-bestie's psychology/sanity was always, bit-by-bit, day-by-day, disintegrating. Now the 'forgotten', negative moments you 'shared' with her should start popping in.... (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((GIANT HUG)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) (Bloody Nora)

Have you been keeping up with Thea's thread? You two are now 'twins'. Doesn't matter the nature of the fauxlationship. Narc iz Narc/Narc-Spath is Narc-Spath. Seriously....... Do you know what the physical equivalent to that disgusting response of hers would be? Answer: Not just spitting - FLOBBING in your face. Who the BEEP does she think she is!!!! More to the point - who the beep does she think YOU are! Putting aside the betrayal feelings - how angry are you right now?

Please do go read the latest, including, especially, the pasted-in articles, on Thea's thread?

The fact you can't cry is because you don't have the luxury of TIME to cry while a predator is still in your midst (and your Fight-Or-Flight system was already on High Alert). Once the danger is well and truly over - THEN you will. Evolutionary design byproduct: if, on sudden approach of a Sabre Toothed Tiger, your ancestors had wasted escape time by crying, they'd have got eaten and, you wouldn't exist. Crying Can Wait. Basically. You're still in the process of trying to understand it all and - not just apply what you know about NPD/AsPD to her, but, now, apply her to NPD/AsPD (which she just very helpfully did for you). Anti-Social (tick!) No Shame (tick!) Literally unbelievably arrogant, insulting and downright humiliating to your face (tick!). NSpaths are the spitters/flobbers. NO SHAME. A straight Narc's ego couldn't TAKE living with knowing you know they did that (and even could). NPD/AsPD. Flobbing in someone's face is considered the (psychological version) most violent act one human can do to another. I expect you're still too much in shock to cry, anyway. She is a monster. She WAS a person, once. Now she's a monster. I need a wee break after that giant development as well - going to take the opportunity to eat something and then come back on. Bear with...

No good, not hungry enough yet... 2nd post: ""Im afraid im going to cry if this conversation comes up." Afraid to do what's natural - with whom it's natural to do so??? Explain, please?" Ah yes crying and me have a complicated relationship. Every time i say "crying" i mean it metaphorically, because i havent been able to cry in about 5 years, i think, at least not from any negative emotion- or physical pain ( i cry from laughter all the time) but never when im in pain. I have no idea why and its extremely frustrating." Ah, you've misconstrued. I mean, why wouldn't you be able to freely show your perfectly rational emotions with your mother/family? I presume that's who you meant the conversation would come up with? Or have I misconstrued and you meant, with Fiend?

3rd post: """Victims aren't not lovely enough, they're "TOO" lovely. The girl wishes she WERE you. (Haven't you caught her coping you, your little affections, sayings, style...anything? Or does she take it to these friends so she can "be you" in secret?" Im not seeing a reason why anyone, especially her would be would to be me, or even be jealous of me. I am forgettable. Noone approaches me, noone wants to be my friend. She is basically the better version of me. She shines everywhere she goes and naturally attracts people. The only thing i attract is the force of gravity. Im sorry that im speaking like this about myself but this is one of my bad, BAD days. And it's all true. Im insecure to the point that if someone came up at me and told me they like me, i would think its a prank and wait for the cameras to pull up."" So, you thought Little Miss Popular-Fantastic (back then) picked someone as 'lowly' as you becaaaaauuuuuuse? She's an undercover charity worker? Er - NO. So how does someone like that end up choosing you if you're truly so 'nothing'? If it doesn't make sense, it's either a lie or a fear talking (both mixed together in your case). You're insecure because your 'sister' has all along been a Narc-Spath. They are well-known for HAVING that effect. That's why you're (chronically) insecure. That's not hard to fix. Starting the fixing - by dumping or shuffling big-time further away from HER. Or out-Narcing her and, using sleight of hand, putting a (number of) leash(es) on her. She shines everywhere she goes - except in private, only with you, when she goes as far as flobs in your face with unbridled self-aggrandizement and outright - OUTRIGHT - contempt. She shines because she's radioactive. And people go, 'Ooooh....shiny....what's that, let me see...'. EVIDENCE TOO-CLEARLY SHOWS SO. CASE NOW CLOSED (in terms of identifying her). And what am I - chopped Liver? :p Maybe she's shiny to other Narcs and you were more Narc-like back then purely by virtue of still being a child (whom get taught to cease being Narcissistic) (except during genuinely tough times - toddlerdom...teenagedom). *I* - think YOU are the genuinely shiny one. And I think my actions back that up (given my time-constraints). Who you gonna believe? She's not fit to lick your boots! She's not even fit to lick, full-stop!

Last post: ""PS: I can hear you need to type out her Rap Sheet. Trust me, it'll make you feel distinctly unloaded and soothe an awful lot of the pain. Start it tonight/in the morning if you like? On here is best; it'll help me to help you more." I have no clue what a rap sheet is. I googled it, apparently its a criminal record? Do you mean to list everything bad she has done? I have told you all of it already, as i said, our relationship was perfect before she moved away. I always thought we were soulmates, we were like the same person in a different front, me the introvert and her, the extrovert. We were opposites at everything, but we fit together perfectly. I was always aware that i was her "side kick" but i was fine with that. I felt honoured that out of the people she was friends with, she chose me to be her best friend. If you know about the sixteen personalities, it will help you understand the dynamics between us. Im an infp and she is an enfj. The mediator and the protagonist." This will be easier to do, now. Additionally, it'll also be a lot easier (sorry - was under time-pressure) if you include in your rap-sheet, what she (drum roll)..........FAILED (refused, wriggled out of, excused, justified, deterred, etc.) TO DO....that a genuine friend should and would do (or would apologise and make up for). Include what she would fail to SAY. Just - any moves - towards you IN-directly as well as directly - that she failed to make and deterred YOU from making, as left you hurt, confused and ruminating over. WHEN YOU'RE READY, I mean. For now, you need to molly-coddle yourself and spoil yourself rotten, as well as be your own "tough-love" parent (e.g. eat your Greens).

PS: I was also going to say (when I didn't have time)... "Im an infp and she is an enfj." She bloody isn't, you know. You've got to be Normal/Neurotypical to be that. She doesn't even HAVE a personality! It's kaput! Hence - 'Narcissistic-Sociopathic Personality Disorder. She should literally have a sign (tattood on her forehead), saying, 'Out Of Order'. ...And underneath - 'Please Consult Management on Tel. 666'.

PS: "*I* - think YOU are the genuinely shiny one. And I think my actions back that up (given my time-constraints). Who you gonna believe?" ...And no replying - 'Ghostbusters!' ;D

Hey! I feel completely fine now by the way. "texted my friend again (i wasn't supposed to i know)" Weren't you? Who said? I thought you were going to start slowly re-training her first? Just to be sure-sure-sure she can't be/is not healthy to keep in your life?" The initial plan was to wait for her to text me first, to see how long it would take her. But in the end, I wanted to check up on her, because sometimes crazy stuff happens at that festival. "What did your text say? Precisely how long did she take to read and then reply?" I just said:"are you alive?" Since three days had passed without hearing from her, and she replied right away. "told me how much she misses me and that the reason she doesn't talk to me that much anymore is because she knows that no matter what i will be there." WHAT THE SERIOUS F*CK???????????????? OH MY GOD. I can't remember the last time I heard cockiness and over-entitled-entitlement(!) THAT HUGE! BLOODY HELL, WT - WHAT THE - WHAT?!?!" Yeah... More specifically, she said: "i know we don't talk that much anymore, but its because i know you'll be there no matter what, unlike <name of another friend of hers> who demands i text her everyday". I genuinely believe she doesn't know what she said is hurtful, or even problematic. She probably meant it as a compliment. The comparison was totally uncalled-for. ( This girl is one of those who i was friends with in high school, and then she never spoke to me again lol) "I barely replied anything and i feel worse than i did when we weren't talking." What exactly did you say?" I just said something like:" yeah whatever" She also told me she feels super guilty about what happened and that she is going to make it up to me. "Have you been keeping up with Thea's thread?" I have tried, its a lot to go through "Putting aside the betrayal feelings - how angry are you right now?" Right now, not at all, at that moment i wasn't angry either, just hurt. I can never stay mad at her, that's the issue, i always just forget it and move on, and i dont know how to not forgive her. "Ah, you've misconstrued. I mean, why wouldn't you be able to freely show your perfectly rational emotions with your mother/family? I presume that's who you meant the conversation would come up with? Or have I misconstrued and you meant, with Fiend?" Yes, i meant my mother. It's because we dont.. do that. In general. "So, you thought Little Miss Popular-Fantastic (back then) picked someone as 'lowly' as you becaaaaauuuuuuse? She's an undercover charity worker? Er - NO." Don't get me wrong, i was very upset when i wrote that, im the best friend she has ever had and im a great person, im aware of that, but she is the best friend i have ever had too. It's not easy for me to see her the way you do. I have only told you the bad stuff after all, and from my perspective. "This will be easier to do, now. Additionally, it'll also be a lot easier (sorry - was under time-pressure) if you include in your rap-sheet, what she (drum roll)..........FAILED (refused, wriggled out of, excused, justified, deterred, etc.) TO DO....that a genuine friend should and would do (or would apologise and make up for). Include what she would fail to SAY. Just - any moves - towards you IN-directly as well as directly - that she failed to make and deterred YOU from making, as left you hurt, confused and ruminating over." I will do it at some point, but i have started to doubt myself, now that im not upset, i keep thinking maybe i was overreacting? I don't think her intention was to hurt me with anything. She was just being ignorant, and had a "she's wont be mad at me for this" mindset. Maybe it's my fault? In the end i always tell her its okay, whatever. So maybe she thinks that nothing really annoys me? After all the previous drama, we started talking every day again. It made me feel like the old times again. And an important update: Next friday I'll be going to her house and staying for three days. I won't be going on my own, but with another girl who's also a friend of her's but very recently we started talking more, so maybe after this we'll become close. I also think i started making friends at uni, well, not exactly friends, but you know what i mean. Another thing i have been thinking a lot: i feel super guilty about coming here and talking about her, and then talking to her like nothing happened, and now even going to stay at her house. I'm feeling like, ultra two- faced.

Heya! Sorry - not ignoring you, but ABCD was 'against the clock'. Be with you asap.

Hey-hey! "The initial plan was to wait for her to text me first, to see how long it would take her. But in the end, I wanted to check up on her, because sometimes crazy stuff happens at that festival." Next time, by when you'll feel surer, you'll be able to hold out and not reach for an excuse more befitting of the mother-teenage-daughter relationship. (Google, "Narcissist - Parentifying the victim"). "What did your text say? Precisely how long did she take to read and then reply?" I just said:"are you alive?" Since three days had passed without hearing from her, and she replied right away." Good that you kept it brief. Replying right away happens (ostensibly illogically, if you think about it) because they're waiting and watching the whole time, to see if and by when YOU'LL crack. You have to crack first. If you do, they get to measure how much power they still have over you in addition to whether the Silent Treatment pushes your buttons and gets a reaction (crack first lest you never see me again). It worked...so she'll use that weapon again. The good news, however, is that, because you now KNOW it was a battle of wills for power-stripping purposes, next time you'll be unlikely to. "told me how much she misses me" (Those dangly digits attached to her hands, called Fingers, could and would have put paid to that so, unless someone chopped them off - what ollocks.) "and that the reason she doesn't talk to me that much anymore is because she knows that no matter what i will be there." "Yeah... More specifically, she said: "i know we don't talk that much anymore, but its because i know you'll be there no matter what, unlike <name of another friend of hers> who demands i text her everyday"." 1. (*puke*) Which entitled attitude (as goes BEYOND taking you for-granted), I'm afraid, you've just re-bolstered. However, you can 'switch things up' any time you like, AND by different avenues of warranted defiance/rebellion, so, all is not lost. Added to this is the fact that you managed 3 whole days this time. ...I mean - I'm presuming it was longer than before? 2. HOWEVER, the whole point of maintaining consistent contact is to keep the bloody friendship alive! 3. She's Parentified you alright. She expects the unconditional love belonging to the parent-child relationship, look. (And there was you, thinking you were quasi sisters...equals.) She thinks she can treat you as inconsiderately or downright shoddily as she likes, whenever she likes, and you won't ever have the balls to put your foot down while fully-prepared to lose the unhealthy union, that (LIKE a mother) you don't have it in you, that it'd be impossible (because she's your secret baby (never mind her posturing air of superiority). At some point you're going to have to show her she's wrong or things will never improve. 4. That's a Triangulation attempt (google). They do this with romantic partners, too. They recriminate the third party because it reflexively makes you try to DO BETTER than this other 'competitor' and 'win' (get chosen). 5. I genuinely believe she doesn't know what she said is hurtful, or even problematic." I don't. For myriad reasons and especially now, knowing she answered immediately as flew in the face of the illusion that she was simply too busy and distracted with other things/people. It was a boundary test-come-punishment, and a perfectly common one with NPDs. Also, depending on the tenure, best female friends do tend to speak daily (if they're both free to). You need to be SURE she isn't aware, not just, hoping she isn't. Again - just be ready to hold out next time. It'll reveal so much more to you. To make her behaviour and attitude change - you need to change yours first...shake things up a bit (slowly/carefully does it)....so that she has to put in more effort or lose the privilege of a loyal and steadfast friend like you. "She probably meant it as a compliment." What is she - so mentally backward that her compliments end up offending you? (Come off it.) "The comparison was totally uncalled-for. ( This girl is one of those who i was friends with in high school, and then she never spoke to me again lol)" No, it was called-for, it's called Triangulation. She's trying to get two people fighting over her...that one is an ego banquet...an All You Can Eat buffet. Enables (ENABLES) her to kid herself she's that desirable, AND being able to set other people off is one of their fave forms of entertainment. "I barely replied anything and i feel worse than i did when we weren't talking." What exactly did you say?" I just said something like:" yeah whatever" GOLD STAR! That is the perfect answer. :) "She also told me she feels super guilty about what happened and that she is going to make it up to me." Oh yeah? This, we'd like to see, eh. Watch that space, then. "Have you been keeping up with Thea's thread?" I have tried, its a lot to go through" A bit... But you're worth it. ;) "Putting aside the betrayal feelings - how angry are you right now?" Right now, not at all, at that moment i wasn't angry either, just hurt. I can never stay mad at her, that's the issue, i always just forget it and move on, and i dont know how to not forgive her." Roger that. This is common amongst victims of Coverts. As I keep saying around here - for as long as they need 'you', they're careful not to actually cross any boundary line...just bumping threateningly into it here, there and everywhere. Conscious You would rather sweep it under the rug at her behavioural behest, anyway, because it too-quickly seems such a hassle for what was 'just' a flash-in-the-pan (death by a thousand papercuts). Because, it's not what they've done; it's what they've done ON TOP OF what they did before-before-before-before and never made it up to you for. You wait until that load hits critical as your inner animal/warrior continues to keep score. Meanwhile, Conscious You still feels constantly precarious in your position with them, never knowing where you moreover stand, and has that urge to see this whole thing through in order precisely to find out for yourself. Eventually your scoreboard alarm goes off, the security shutters come crashing down, and it's Game over...they've kicked every last drop of love out of you and you, and there's nothing you can do about it. To your own surprise, you find you can't wait to get rid, don't want to go within 10ft of them, let alone finish your 'exploration' for sake of understanding and closure. Dumping them has been done for you. So you have limited time if counter-manipulation and power-dynamic readjustment for the sake of a tolerable friendship is still your aim? "Ah, you've misconstrued. I mean, why wouldn't you be able to freely show your perfectly rational emotions with your mother/family? I presume that's who you meant the conversation would come up with? Or have I misconstrued and you meant, with Fiend?" Yes, i meant my mother. It's because we dont.. do that. In general." Ah! There it is... The Mother Ship. There always is one when we put up with behaviour that others wouldn't. Why aren't you two close, like you should be? Is this why you need this quasi sister and are trying to find ways to tolerate her?...because she's been part of your life, growing-up and kind of filled a gap your mum left? "So, you thought Little Miss Popular-Fantastic (back then) picked someone as 'lowly' as you becaaaaauuuuuuse? She's an undercover charity worker? Er - NO." Don't get me wrong, i was very upset when i wrote that, im the best friend she has ever had and im a great person, im aware of that, but she is the best friend i have ever had too. It's not easy for me to see her the way you do. I have only told you the bad stuff after all, and from my perspective." GOOD! That's much better! You wait until you get an EQUAL Bestie, you're in for a treat (and the surprise of your life)! You're still the nicer, better person out of the two of you, though. No question. "This will be easier to do, now. Additionally, it'll also be a lot easier (sorry - was under time-pressure) if you include in your rap-sheet, what she (drum roll)..........FAILED (refused, wriggled out of, excused, justified, deterred, etc.) TO DO....that a genuine friend should and would do (or would apologise and make up for). Include what she would fail to SAY. Just - any moves - towards you IN-directly as well as directly - that she failed to make and deterred YOU from making, as left you hurt, confused and ruminating over." I will do it at some point, but i have started to doubt myself, now that im not upset, i keep thinking maybe i was overreacting?" You'll probably get the urge to do it the very next time she offends your sensitivities all over again (so keep posting/chatting to keep your thread open and ready). But that's okay. What's happening to you is a process, which is still ongoing. Again - the impact of the offence wearing-off too quickly is how it goes (hence 'death by a thousand papercuts'). But your bucket of collected/never evaporated, i.e. left unresolved, drips (papercuts), clearly IS that bit too full already, hence you just came very close. "I don't think her intention was to hurt me with anything. She was just being ignorant, and had a "she's wont be mad at me for this" mindset." She's not a retard. Don't make excuses for her that belong to primary-school-age kids. "Maybe it's my fault?" All victims wonder that, empaths especially. Answer: NOPE. Literally not possible where NPD-victim dynamics are concerned. Ask and I'll explain. But, basically, an underling/slave - manifested in this case as, her treating you like an unfeeling stuffed toy in her toybox - has no say so can't be blamed for any part in 'the say'. That simple. "In the end i always tell her its okay, whatever. So maybe she thinks that nothing really annoys me?" Again - not a retard. "After all the previous drama, we started talking every day again. It made me feel like the old times again." As long as it's not just her Hoovering you back into where you were before you started...lulling and love-bombing you. Let's see if she keeps it up, even if it relaxes into 4 times per week. (Just what's NORMAL for friends would do, eh.) That's why I think you should do the rap-sheet now. If she upsets you again, it'll be hard to write it. You need the clear and calm head you've got NOW, to ensure it's objective/a true reflection. "And an important update: Next friday I'll be going to her house and staying for three days." That's an interesting transformation? Or is it a reversion to how things always used to be like before uni? Has your 3-day hold-out been so uncharacteristic of you that you actually DID get through her cloth-ears and -head? Let's wait and see. "I won't be going on my own, but with another girl who's also a friend of her's but very recently we started talking more, so maybe after this we'll become close." Ah-hah! Fingers crossed! It's good practise, anyway. "I also think i started making friends at uni, well, not exactly friends, but you know what i mean." Yeah. Acquaintances with potential for growing a relationship with. :) That is EXCELLENT news! And what tends to happen is, once you get ONE friend under your belt - along comes another...and another....and, next thing you know, you find you're faced with a NEW problem - of having too MANY friends to maintain! (It's exceedingly difficult finding just the right number, don't you find?) Well...you've had an awakening. That in itself adds to your allure. :) It's in your vibe. We humans don't sniff each others' bottoms like dogs, but, unbeknownst to us, we're still having a damn good sniff (and there's data in that stuff, there is!). Another thing i have been thinking a lot: i feel super guilty about coming here and talking about her, and then talking to her like nothing happened, and now even going to stay at her house. I'm feeling like, ultra two- faced. But - just to indulge your (understandable) neurosis: If she wrote your rap-sheet, what is it you think she'd have on it? (I just KNOW it's going to remind me of that bat-back quip of mine, in response to the (caveman) question, 'Are you good in bed?'. I say, 'Yeah - brilliant. I don't leave biscuit crumbs, and always go straight to sleep!'. I.e., it'd be a lot of nothing, but, go ahead and prove me wrong?...just as an exercise as another way to grow back your confidence? PS: While we're waiting to see how things go - feel free to talk about your mum and family life? That's usually where the tendency to over-tolerate and -endure (and normalise) stems from. Or teenage peers and friends.

Tsk - missed the final para: "Another thing i have been thinking a lot: i feel super guilty about coming here and talking about her, and then talking to her like nothing happened, and now even going to stay at her house. I'm feeling like, ultra two- faced." Naah. You wouldn't have needed to come here if she'd been behaving herself and not making you feel worthless to her (and all who sail in her). Her fault. You wouldn't feel guilty if (accidentally or not) she'd punched you in the stomach, caused internal bleeding, and you'd had to go straight to hospital, would you. You'd feel hurt, angry and resentful; the amount directly proportionate with the seriousness of the injury and amount of rehabilitation. This is like emotional hospital. Self-recrimination Attempt - FAIL. Nice try, though, haha. Sucker for Guilt much? PLEASE stop abusing yourself FOR them (whomever they are/were)? It's just b*llocks. Whether it was a bit true ONCE?... who cares. TODAY, you're a perfectly lovely, interesting to chat to, young lady...a young Gentlewoman (classy). You got lengthily distracted from the journey of getting to know yourself...given too much hassle as left you no time or brain-space. You're wildly out-of-date now. Time to start looking at your young adult self, where you are, how you got there, the FACT you got there (given your history and the mess countries/societies are in as rebounds on you younger ones...too many chronic traumas.) You're doing really well. You're very emotionally strong. There are middled-aged people galore who aren't even in your league, WT. Honestly.

PPS: ""She probably meant it as a compliment."" She meant it as a "Backhanded Compliment" (Covert speciality - google). An offence dressed-up as a compliment. Like their "awww, it was just a jo-oo-ooooke". Answer: 'Then next time, I suggest you put some Comedy into it'. And if they add, 'where's your sense of humoooour?", retort, 'Un-activated. So don't give up your day-job.'

PPPS: Just so's you know: the keys that have made her sit-up and behave, are these: 1. The fact you took three whole days. And when you consider older-adult besties see/speak to each other once per week on-average, your hold-out, relatively speaking, was the emotional-impact-equivalent of 3 whole weeks. 2. And this beaut: ""yeah whatever"" Those two in particular, together 'spelt', word plus action consistent, for her, spelt, 'I'm losing her'. All that was missing, was - comma Trevor. HAHAHAHAHA! For your early stage of awakening and climbing off her Matrix - that was really impressive going! :)))))

Hey! Sorry for taking so long! So... I did go to her place and we stayed for four days instead of three. I had a great time, everything felt like it went back to normal. "That's an interesting transformation? Or is it a reversion to how things always used to be like before uni?" Pretty much, yes of you consider we saw eachother every single day before. Even when she moved away, i went and stayed with her until uni started. Has your 3-day hold-out been so uncharacteristic of you that you actually DID get through her cloth-ears and -head? Let's wait and see. Yes, she basically told me this: i figured out something was wrong, because you didn't talk to me for three days, that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible. She asked if i got mad about what happened, i told her i wasn't mad, but upset and it turns out (at least she said so) that she had a shit time with her new friends, they got on her nerves, and she was very upset that she didn't get to see any of her other friends because she couldn't leave them alone in a foreign city. Since i got back, (its only been 4 days, but still) we have been talking every day again. About the other girl i went with: she is a great person, and we definitely became closer. So everything is perfectly fine now, basically. "Ah, you've misconstrued. I mean, why wouldn't you be able to freely show your perfectly rational emotions with your mother/family? I presume that's who you meant the conversation would come up with? Or have I misconstrued and you meant, with Fiend?" Yes, i meant my mother. It's because we dont.. do that. In general." Ah! There it is... The Mother Ship. There always is one when we put up with behaviour that others wouldn't. Why aren't you two close, like you should be? Is this why you need this quasi sister and are trying to find ways to tolerate her?...because she's been part of your life, growing-up and kind of filled a gap your mum left?" Well...if i start about my family here, its never going to end. About my mum, i think we are super close, but we don't really talk about important stuff like that. I dont know how to describe this exactly, but its kinda what she taught me? She wants me to tell her everything of course, but she never tells me about what is going on with her. She doesn't want me to see her sad, mad is just fine thought lol. She has always been super overprotective and controlling. I was never allowed to go out and play as a child, so i always felt distanced and inferior to my friends. Except from when i was at school i was pretty much always alone. I also wasn't allowed to have a phone until i was 15, i think, so i also had no way to communicate. Right now, i would say that our relationship is great but the overprotectiveness hasn't gone away of course.( She called at least 6 times a day while i was away) Things used to be way worse when i was younger. I was basically always terrified of her. See how i said this would never end? Maybe I'll tell you about my dad next time, or whenever i have more time. Bye for now!

Again - I don't mind you taking so long! LOL ...Because I take so long! So - sorry back! HAHA ("I don't mind" "Well I don't mind either" "Well neither do I" "Nor me" "Well, okay, then" "What was the question again?" "Which question - when?" ...PMSL) Right, you mad bint-ette, haha - off we go (Serious Hat on).... "I did go to her place" Good! "and we stayed for four days instead of three. I had a great time, everything felt like it went back to normal." I'd say good but, let's let Time tell (i.e. is this her, turning over a new leaf (or getting over some weird spell) or Love-Bombing herself back into your good books to lull you into a false sense of security before starting with making you feel like a Nothing all over again?). "That's an interesting transformation? Or is it a reversion to how things always used to be like before uni?" Ah, there you go - you beat me to it! Yup - that's the usual Six Million Dollar question, alright! ...."WILL THE REAL SLIM SHADY, PLEASE STAND UP!". "Pretty much, yes of you consider we saw eachother every single day before. Even when she moved away, i went and stayed with her until uni started." Okay. But let's not forget that it was when you went out of her range that the trouble immediately started....which COULD be - out of sight (and unable to service my needs) = out of mind. Let's not build your hopes up. She'll need to keep this up consistently for a GOOD FEW....ooooh - FOREVERS? (They reckon - and we all agree - that Neglect is the most severe of all other forms of abuses, you realise? In simplest terms, bit like the diff between tied to a chair and foie-gras-ed (overfed) - and left in a corner to starve (underfed). And the Neglected are mostly all.....Coverts (although the NSpaths would have got slammed with both). Sooo, anyhooo....now you start Captain's Log, Star Date: (now)...., continuing to record every single-TINGLE interaction (on here so you've got everything all together; it'll be vital for judging and deciding). Meaning. You're in the exact-same position as ABCD. (PS: I wonder if his online surname is EFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ?) ("What's yer name?" "Abacudd" "Pardon- I mean - Pdn?" "Abacudd...Abacudd Effguh-Hijck-Lumunop-Krsstuv-Wikes, spelt,.....)" "Zzzzzz.....") (Sorry, but it's Friday, after a hard-slog day, so it's MUCK ABOUT NIGHT, WOO-HOO! You'll have to just tolerate me tonight, haha!) Anyway - yes. You two are now situational "twins". Say Hi to your fellow Lab colleague? :) "Has your 3-day hold-out been so uncharacteristic of you that you actually DID get through her cloth-ears and -head? Let's wait and see. Yes, she basically told me this: i figured out something was wrong, because you didn't talk to me for three days, that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." Okay... (She was counting, look. AND SPECIFYING. Rather than, couple of days, handful of days, two-three days... Did you spot that?) "She asked if i got mad about what happened, i told her i wasn't mad, but upset" Is it pertinent, do you think, that she saw it that if it happened to her she'd be MAD rather than upset/sad? (BTW, this is amazingly helpful, hearing her verbatim, WELL DONE!) Question: why didn't she just phone you and ask you and if there were a problem, THEN ask you straight over to sort it? Or sort it on the phone then ask you over afterwards? And if she thought you were mad at her for something you'd done - meaning, she were beholden to you - then how come she summons you to hers. That's back-to-front. The UNWITTING perp is Mohammad. And Moham is supposed to be the one to walk to the mountain, not the mountain walk to Mohammad. Seeing it yet? See all the TEENY-TINY-not-so-teeny-tiny things that go under your, the victim-survivor's, radar? It's a show of her unwarranted sense of superiority in yours and her dynamic. (Thoweeeee that it's already not looking so squeaky clean as the surface (with the aid of your hope) suggests. But...Time is the deciding factor. Healthy - or finally healthy - relationships (or re-starts after reaching an understanding) get better with passing of the weeks/months. With Narcs, they get worse (or again but even worse than before now that they've got you too comfy to want to move again (or tied-up). But I suppose she could just be a lifelong spoilt brat, used to other people making her efforts for her. " and it turns out (at least she said so) that she had a shit time with her new friends, they got on her nerves, and she was very upset that she didn't get to see any of her other friends because she couldn't leave them alone in a foreign city." Yes, but that could be Triangulation. Question: why was the conversation all about her? Where was her, wanting to know the details of what she'd done (and the ramifications)? Seems strangely missing to me. All I'M hearing is: Poor Me-Me-Me!...It's not MY fault, it's the terrible time's (naughty terrible time, tsk - spank!). Had you noticed THAT? "Since i got back, (its only been 4 days, but still) we have been talking every day again." Well, this is the precedence she's setting, bar relaxing-down a tiny as you get comfy together again - so - let's see her maintain that and a slightly relaxed version and NOT go AWOL again. I've also noticed something else, though... To ME, it sounds a little like she's saying: I decided my new friends were shite so I figured I'd now come back to you, my Old Faithful. Doesn't it you? That conveys that you're the safetynet, the 2nd prize. (Sorry ((((hug))))) .) "About the other girl i went with: she is a great person, and we definitely became closer." EX-CELL-EEEEEENT. So that's the GOOD news! But I wonder why she's decided to introduce you two? Does she need a 'gang' all the time, rather than one-on-ones? Or is it that YOU'VE MADE HER NERVOUS ABOUT BEING TOO LONG/TOO MANY OCCASIONS, ALONE WITH YOU AND YOUR SPIDEY SENSES AND INTERROGATIONS?...whereas with three, it's easy to switch the convo topic instantly to avoid answering something, innit.). ...A question worth asking, in view of her recent but protracted record, methinks. Agree?) Thoughts back, por favor, Senorina? PS: I think you should think about drawing this other girl to you and how you'd go about it. She's proven she sees herself as the Mountain, ergo, this other girl is your co-minion (slave), ergo, nice and decent too. Plan, Stan? PPS: You're a sweetie. No sweetie should be hidden in a toybox. You deserve a weight-for-weight, equal friendship, true friendship (no nasty competing, put-downs or any of that crap). Let's see what she's up to - hopefully ahead of her - in the coming days/weeks and then, who knows, maybe you'll want to try taming her via the ego and getting her to do her OWN running? I mean, what does she think you are - her Butler? :p (It's called *Seek* Forgiveness, not Summon. Yeah? Click-whirr-click-whirr...?) Here for you.

Just to higlight my point: Listen... "that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." That's why I TOLD....YOU to come over....AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. Compare (how it should be if the underlying belief system and attitude is healthy): "that's why I asked you to come over as soon as possible". (Nnnnyyeeea...meh... sowwy. But let's see! Maybe it'll just take her time to adjust i.e. climb down off her own pedestal...)

But saying that - do feel free to tell her, Soulmate said: 'Can I have a pair of front-seat tickets, please, and - WHAT IS IT YOU DO?'. Important PS: say nothing to other friend just yet. Take time to study her, first, to ensure she's kosha. And falling into instant friendship is what old you might have done. New You guards your Diamond self until you know you're safe. :)

TSK - sorry! - a sentance fell off: "Compare (how it should be if the underlying belief system and attitude is healthy): "that's why I asked you to come over as soon as possible"." OR "what's why I asked to come over to yours as quickly as possible". Are your spidey senses feeling it? It's all very, very subtle with Coverts. Covert means Hidden. Deeply. So you've got all this friendly chatter/the correct tone, even....but the actual acts/actions don't match. "Oh-oh...come here, quickly!" / "No...you come HERE, b*tch, if you're truly that worried :p." (She needs a damn good spank over my knee, that's what she needs.) (Look what the No Spanking movement has achieved!...Weren't the Anti-Spankers soooo clever!...NNNOT. A spank that shocks more than hurts and abuse are two very distinctly different - very OPPOSITE-intentioned and -achieving - things (don't get me started.) (Doubt it'd work now, though; she probably needs a hundred. And a Time-Machine.)

PS: FYI, I'm just saving the bit about your fam for afterwards.

Hello-hello? Don't float off with the Happy Fairies again - keep one foot firmly on the ground, this time, and watch her like a hawk (and jot anything iffy/upset down here or in a dedicated pad). It's recommended you take friendships slowly so that you have the time and headspace to NOTICE any little Red Flags. But this rule apples even harder after a friend has been upsettingly neglectful or belittling - no matter HOW subtly-executed, whereby you Plea-Bargain (merely unaware, social-interactional ineptness on her part). Plea Bargaining happens a whole two-thirds through the whole grieving process. Seventy Percent, only Thirty Percent to go. I strongly suggest you stay there, or at least keep one foot in it (without letting on), before losing all that hard-won ground for what could be nothing but the build-up to another iffy & insulting phase. You don't want to feel bad and unwanted like that again, do you.

Hii "Is it pertinent, do you think, that she saw it that if it happened to her she'd be MAD rather than upset/sad?" Oh she wouldn't be just mad. She'd be furious. Also when she asked me if i got mad, and i said no, she said: oh ( the other girl that she compared me to before) got super mad. "Question: why didn't she just phone you and ask you and if there were a problem, THEN ask you straight over to sort it? Or sort it on the phone then ask you over afterwards?" Ah i have no idea. But she does this a lot, she asks and tells me important things mostly when we are face to face "Question: why was the conversation all about her? Where was her, wanting to know the details of what she'd done (and the ramifications)? Seems strangely missing to me. All I'M hearing is: Poor Me-Me-Me!...It's not MY fault, it's the terrible time's (naughty terrible time, tsk - spank!)." Yeah she complained about this at least three times, and also she never apologized. "But I wonder why she's decided to introduce you two? Does she need a 'gang' all the time, rather than one-on-ones? Or is it that YOU'VE MADE HER NERVOUS ABOUT BEING TOO LONG/TOO MANY OCCASIONS, ALONE WITH YOU AND YOUR SPIDEY SENSES AND INTERROGATIONS?...whereas with three, it's easy to switch the convo topic instantly to avoid answering something, innit.). ...A question worth asking, in view of her recent but protracted record, methinks. Agree?)" Ok i see i need to explain a lot of things. First, she didn't ask me to come over. I did. Second she didn't introduce us. We have know eachother for seven years now. We were never really friends, but we were in the same friend group. Last year, she became really close to bestie, so naturally we started talking too. In November, she went over to bestie's house and she said in a voice message they left me: we should go out when i come back. I was very surprised, because we had never really talked alone before. Anyways, we went out and at some point she said: we should go to (bestie's) house together sometime. Recently we were texting and she mentioned it again, she said we should go after that festival. So when me and bestie started talking again after the drama, i told her to find a date. "that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." That's what she meant, that the date was as soon as possible. Also, I admit that's not exactly what she said, remember im translating everything so it can't be 100 percent accurate. She was also planning to come over to me, but since i told her im coming to her, she didn't. Also, another thing that kinda bugged me (and it will probably sound terrible): after i met all her friends, she asked me: aren't you jealous at all? And i said no, of course. Then i saw something in her face, i cant explain, and i said: it bothers you that im not jealous, doesn't it? And she said: terribly. She has said before she likes it when her romantic partners are a little bit jealous, BUT IM NOT ONE!?

Hey-hey, be with you asap!

Hey! Is everything ok?

No! Aaargh! I'm only just catching up! (PS wanna be my Secretary?) (I wish!) Right, where were we? Let me have a quick re-read... (Hi by the way)

""Is it pertinent, do you think, that she saw it that if it happened to her she'd be MAD rather than upset/sad?" Oh she wouldn't be just mad. She'd be furious."" TICK! "Also when she asked me if i got mad, and i said no, she said: oh ( the other girl that she compared me to before) got super mad." So says she. You can't verify that until you start to get to close to the other (COUGH!) young woman (girls are up to age 12 ;p). If she's lying, it comes under Plausible Deniability because by the time you can judge for yourself, all of this will be long-gone water under the bridge and will feel unappropriate to re-raise (albeit, you're entitled to ignore that usual victim-typical inhibition against being 'rude' because anything that isn't resolved, cannot be called Past yet; plus she's not exactly well-mannered herself...and you're only visiiting Rudeville, anyway, not setting up camp there or anything). ""Question: why didn't she just phone you and ask you and if there were a problem, THEN ask you straight over to sort it? Or sort it on the phone then ask you over afterwards?" Ah i have no idea. But she does this a lot, she asks and tells me important things mostly when we are face to face" Ah. Doesn't want a written record, or where you could be taping her for all she knows, do you think? If so, that'd be yet more evidence she's a young NSpath because their type commonly have a co-morbidity with Paranoid Personality Disorder (which, if you think about it, would hardly be surprising, given the way they behave) and she wouldn't want to end up on YouTube or TikTok, eh. (Not that you'dn do that but their type would, ergo, 'why wouldn't you' (answer: you are the real deal, not a liar like her, have morals and aren't an attacker. But paranoid is as paranoid does). ALSO, they want to see how much effort you deem them worth - despite everything - meaning, especially right after discord. It's called Taking Your Temperature or Dipping Their Litmus. ""Question: why was the conversation all about her? Where was her, wanting to know the details of what she'd done (and the ramifications)? Seems strangely missing to me. All I'M hearing is: Poor Me-Me-Me!...It's not MY fault, it's the terrible time's (naughty terrible time, tsk - spank!)." "Yeah she complained about this at least three times, and also she never apologized."" (TICK! and TICK!) You see? They insult/mistreat you EVEN WHEN THEY'RE (apparently) BEING NICE. ""But I wonder why she's decided to introduce you two? Does she need a 'gang' all the time, rather than one-on-ones? Or is it that YOU'VE MADE HER NERVOUS ABOUT BEING TOO LONG/TOO MANY OCCASIONS, ALONE WITH YOU AND YOUR SPIDEY SENSES AND INTERROGATIONS?...whereas with three, it's easy to switch the convo topic instantly to avoid answering something, innit.). ...A question worth asking, in view of her recent but protracted record, methinks. Agree?)" "Ok i see i need to explain a lot of things. First, she didn't ask me to come over. I did."" Little difference. It's instinctive to recognise when you're the Mountain and therefore take it for granted you should be Mohammad. SHE should have asked to come over. Think carefully...did she take the phone conversation to a point where the only logical next move should have been (her) suggesting a get-together, but because she failed, you felt YOU should be the one to? ""Second she didn't introduce us. We have know eachother for seven years now. We were never really friends, but we were in the same friend group. Last year, she became really close to bestie, so naturally we started talking too." Oh, right, then - excellent! So can YOU imagine Friend 2 reacting as forcefully as she, Friend(ish) 1 reckoned?...'Super-Mad'? Or does it sound too uncharacteristic (if you've observed enough)? "In November, she went over to bestie's house and she said in a voice message they left me: we should go out when i come back." THEY left you? "I was very surprised, because we had never really talked alone before." I'm confused - was Friend 1 with her when she left the message or not? And have I presumed right, that she then called you again once she was alone again? "Anyways, we went out and at some point she said: we should go to (bestie's) house together sometime. Recently we were texting and she mentioned it again, she said we should go after that festival. So when me and bestie started talking again after the drama, i told her to find a date." Do you mean, to name a date? ""that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." That's what she meant, that the date was as soon as possible."" Nope, sorry, I'm even more confused. Can you re-do those parts and use the terms F1 and F2? (Too many "she's".) "Also, I admit that's not exactly what she said, remember im translating everything so it can't be 100 percent accurate." OH, right - okay, sorry. You'll have to try that bit again, though, because the point of this is to gain clarity on the whole situation and what's behind it. "She was also planning to come over to me, but since i told her im coming to her, she didn't." See above question. "Also, another thing that kinda bugged me (and it will probably sound terrible):" Tip-off: Try not to ever say that last half - it's my right as the recipient to decide and say (if it needs saying). If you say it, you're just punching yourself, quite possibly for nothing. ('I HOPE this won't sound terrible, but', is okay. Your way sounds down on yourself which is a Green Light to Narcs looking for a victim...even if you're not and it's nothing more than a vocal habit.) " after i met all her friends, she asked me: aren't you jealous at all?" OH, GOOD GRIEF, CASE CLOSED AGAIN. " And i said no, of course. Then i saw something in her face, i cant explain, and i said: it bothers you that im not jealous, doesn't it? And she said: terribly." Woah - a face-off. (She's definitely overly insecure...part of the PD.) That was a "Reveal". Spaths do that - flash the real them at you (then pretend they were joking or just playing with you (yet who'd do that!)). What did YOU say? "She has said before she likes it when her romantic partners are a little bit jealous, BUT IM NOT ONE!?" I BEG YOUR PARDON - SHE SAID WHAT? Oh, Christ. I've had this. She's scraping the barrel. Not just buttering you up but going too far. It has the side-bonus of making you feel (wait for it) TOO UNCOMFORTABLE TO BE LEFT ALONE WITH HER (I'm right about wanting to avoid future questionings/confrontations). She knows you've seen through her and are no longer willing to be, even part of the time, her emotional slave and lackey. And I suspect that in your own language, you are very good at asking salient, difficult questions. She's wary of you now, that's why. Again, trying to take back power over you (dictate your wellbeing and emotional state), the only way she has left: make a shocking, jarring, sexual pass. There are other side-bonuses as well...e.g. If you believe she has feelings for you as deep as romantic - heart bared and vulnerable - then, you'll naturally go EASIER on her. (I've BEEN where you are right now.) But I just want to check something: Where was the emphasis - was it: (a) "I like it when my *romantic* partners are a little bit jealous...?" (b) "I *like* it when my romantic partners are a little it jealous (full-stop, no rise in tone)" I'm still 100% certain of one thing: At the least, she's undeniably doing an ucking good impression of a 'start-up' NSpath. (It's all such a needless, senseless, ber-LOODY HASSLE, though, isn't it?)

Hey!!! So, I'll start answering your questions "Oh, right, then - excellent! So can YOU imagine Friend 2 reacting as forcefully as she, Friend(ish) 1 reckoned?...'Super-Mad'? Or does it sound too uncharacteristic (if you've observed enough)?" Nooo, she wouldn't. I see myself in her a lot, we have a lot in common, but unfortunately we haven't kept contact since we came back. Ever since she asked me to go out that first time, i was the only one who texted her first. She would say something like we should go out again but never actually texted me to arrange. So decided to let her text me first aaand she never did. "THEY left you?'' Yess they were together at the time. "I'm confused - was Friend 1 with her when she left the message or not? And have I presumed right, that she then called you again once she was alone again?" Yes she was, and no she didn't. She actually never calls me. We only text or leave voice messages. To be fair, i never call her either, but thats because im always in my house and i dont want my whole family to hear what im saying. Im also very awkward at calls, and i never end up saying what i actually want to say. So it's probably justified. I remember that during this time, when friend 2 visited her, it was the first time i got upset with her, because she didn't reply to any of my texts for days. And then she said sorry i was busy and then stopped replying again. That voice message they left me was how i learned they were together in the first place and i was super surprised because 1: i didn't think they were that close and 2: why didn't she tell me earlier? "Nope, sorry, I'm even more confused. Can you re-do those parts and use the terms F1 and F2? (Too many "she's".)" Here i go: I was talking to friend 2 and she said we should go to bestie's house together sometime. Recently, me and friend 2 were texting and she mentioned we should go after that festival ( the one bestie didn't invite me to bc she was with her other friends) When i talked to bestie again after the festival drama, i told her me and friend 2 were thinking of coming over and to arrange a date. "that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." That's what she meant, that the date was as soon as possible."" That's the date i was talking about. "after i met all her friends, she asked me: aren't you jealous at all?" OH, GOOD GRIEF, CASE CLOSED AGAIN. " And i said no, of course. Then i saw something in her face, i cant explain, and i said: it bothers you that im not jealous, doesn't it? And she said: terribly." Woah - a face-off. (She's definitely overly insecure...part of the PD.) That was a "Reveal". Spaths do that - flash the real them at you (then pretend they were joking or just playing with you (yet who'd do that!)). What did YOU say? " If i remember correctly, i said: Why would i be jealous? You have always had a ton of other friends. And then i have no idea, i cant remember where the conversation went. "But I just want to check something: Where was the emphasis - was it: (a) "I like it when my *romantic* partners are a little bit jealous...?" (b) "I *like* it when my romantic partners are a little it jealous (full-stop, no rise in tone)"" Definitely b. Im not sure if you have understood right, so ill clarify just in case. She didn't say the i like it when my romantic partners are jealous part when she asked me if i was jealous. That is just a general fact i know about her, and we she has mentioned it multiple times. So when she said it bothered her i wasn't jealous, i just connected the dots between these two. I was sceptical because i thought that only applied to boyfriends, not friends! However, i must admit that the lines between us being friends or a couple are blurred sometimes. There were multiple people in high school who thought we were dating. We are also very physical, but i guess at a normal level. Last year, two of my friends from tutoring surprised me for my birthday. A couple days later, she asked me the same question:"are you jealous of my other friends at all?" I said no, she replied: "because when you told me those girls surprised you, i lost my mind" I, at the time, thought it was funny, so i laughed, and said jokingly:" wtf? Are you stupid?" Definitely not the best response lol. I guess that's it for now: and also i want to ask: i was thinking about talking about a completely unrelated subject that has been torturing me for years basically, but i dont know if its a good idea. I keep getting paranoid that someone who knows me will find this and figure out its me(I know the odds are impossible) So if i talk about this other thing that is a huge secret, i will get even more paranoid. Seriously, it has became a big issue and i get so much anxiety about someone finding this.(im literally shaking while typing this) I even thought what if i die and my parents unlock my phone and read this whole thing. If i talk about the other thing, and someone sees it, my whole family will be ruined. So please, tell me what you think.

Oh good grief - has it really been 10 days? Sorry about that. Been busy then ill, but I'm ok...just playing catch-up (as usual, lately). "Oh, right, then - excellent! So can YOU imagine Friend 2 reacting as forcefully as she, Friend(ish) 1 reckoned?...'Super-Mad'? Or does it sound too uncharacteristic (if you've observed enough)?" Nooo, she wouldn't. I see myself in her a lot, we have a lot in common, but unfortunately we haven't kept contact since we came back. Ever since she asked me to go out that first time, i was the only one who texted her first. She would say something like we should go out again but never actually texted me to arrange. So decided to let her text me first aaand she never did. Okay, so: 1. F1 was lying (what a surprise) (so that tack comes under Triangulation...trying to ENCOURAGE you to say when you're mad (determined to get a rise out of you in future when pushing your buttons) 2. Why did you wait for her to text you? Are you too used to other people (e.g. F1) always doing the arranging? Because when someome says 'we should', it means they're unsure of your keenness and so have given you your cue to call THEM. Otherwise, they'd just add - I'll text/ring you. Methinks you and F2 are too used to being vulnerable and having to always be the one to put your egos on the line (courtesy of F1, eh). "THEY left you?" "Yess they were together at the time." "I'm confused - was Friend 1 with her when she left the message or not? And have I presumed right, that she then called you again once she was alone again?" Yes she was, and no she didn't. She actually never calls me. We only text or leave voice messages. To be fair, i never call her either, but thats because im always in my house and i dont want my whole family to hear what im saying. Im also very awkward at calls, and i never end up saying what i actually want to say. So it's probably justified." Call...Text... whichever. But - all noted (and refer to prior Vulnerability-itis). "I remember that during this time, when friend 2 visited her, it was the first time i got upset with her, because she didn't reply to any of my texts for days. And then she said sorry i was busy and then stopped replying again. That voice message they left me was how i learned they were together in the first place" INTERESTING! (Triangulation again, meaning, it was F1's idea.) "and i was super surprised because 1: i didn't think they were that close and 2: why didn't she tell me earlier?" As above. "Nope, sorry, I'm even more confused. Can you re-do those parts and use the terms F1 and F2? (Too many "she's".)" "Here i go: I was talking to friend 2 and she said we should go to bestie's house together sometime. Recently, me and friend 2 were texting and she mentioned we should go after that festival ( the one bestie didn't invite me to bc she was with her other friends)" Ah! Got it. "When i talked to bestie again after the festival drama, i told her me and friend 2 were thinking of coming over and to arrange a date. "that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." That's what she meant, that the date was as soon as possible. That's the date i was talking about." Okay, I think I've got the gist. ""after i met all her friends, she asked me: aren't you jealous at all?" OH, GOOD GRIEF, CASE CLOSED AGAIN." " And i said no, of course. Then i saw something in her face, i cant explain," You don't need to. I know that look. It's when you haven't followed the plot in her Playbook (again - don't work right as a minion, haha.) "and i said: it bothers you that im not jealous, doesn't it? And she said: terribly." (I'm impressed you said that, actually - Thlup!, Gold Star.) ""Woah - a face-off. (She's definitely overly insecure...part of the PD.) That was a "Reveal". Spaths do that - flash the real them at you (then pretend they were joking or just playing with you (yet who'd do that!)). What did YOU say? " "If i remember correctly, i said: Why would i be jealous? You have always had a ton of other friends. And then i have no idea, i cant remember where the conversation went." Yeah, forgetting how the conversation went once you're out of their forcefield is typical. It's because the conversation didn't ACTUALLY make sense, add-up or explain things. If it had, you'd not have had trouble trying to recall it. This, on top of the Word Salad-come Circular Conversation/Argument is done mostly via their unique tone of voice (again - Narc-Sociopath Hypnotic Effect). ""But I just want to check something: Where was the emphasis - was it: (a) "I like it when my *romantic* partners are a little bit jealous...?" (b) "I *like* it when my romantic partners are a little it jealous (full-stop, no rise in tone)"" Definitely b." Aw shite. ""Im not sure if you have understood right, so ill clarify just in case." I think I have, but - Okay. "She didn't say the i like it when my romantic partners are jealous part when she asked me if i was jealous. That is just a general fact i know about her, and we she has mentioned it multiple times. So when she said it bothered her i wasn't jealous, i just connected the dots between these two. I was sceptical because i thought that only applied to boyfriends, not friends!" Correct - in that context, it does. "However, i must admit that the lines between us being friends or a couple are blurred sometimes" Yup. Typical. And I've had that (even bolder) done to me (and others I know) LOADS of times - and worse. They're testing your boundaries, seeing whether it'll push your buttons. Example: fairly new friend...comes to supper with myself and kid...they got drunk so had to stay over...bed time, spare room, calls me in ("Here a tick?")...walk in: half naked on the bed - "Can I have a cuddle?". I erred on the side of caution in case they WEREN'T just drunk and replied: "Uh?!?" (as in WTF?, followed by)....How's about *No*?!", swiftly walked out again, and, as I closed the door, going, "I'll let you off this time but don't ever pull that shit on me again, okay? Night!". (Talk about huge 1st Flag. They're Omnisexual (google)...don't care who or what they sleep with because sex/romance with someone is simply a door in... a tool like everything else.) I don't mind being rude to rude people. Suggest you try it in future. Yeah...F1 is so iffy. She's trying ALL the tricks, isn't she, to keep you under her influence, have everything on her terms, toy with your emotions and control you with never letting you know precisely where you stand. Incredibly immature at the very, very least. Definitely stick with F2. Bet she's treated F2 like that as well. Find a moment to subtly broach the subject and compare notes if ever it feels right, yeah? s "There were multiple people in high school who thought we were dating." Oh, good grief! So I suppose no lads ever approached you to chat you up or ask you out, either! Ach..talk about creating an impression that you were her property and 'No Trespassing Allowed'. No WONDER none of the other friends kept in touch. Good god - Attention Pacman/Parasite, anyone? Can you see it now? I can, and - oh wow, she's been doing a number on you for YEARS. "We are also very physical, but i guess at a normal level." Yuh. But she's stretching the brief, pushing the boundaries, taking you into her Grey Area all the time. "Last year, two of my friends from tutoring surprised me for my birthday. A couple days later, she asked me the same question:"are you jealous of my other friends at all?" I said no, she replied: "because when you told me those girls surprised you, i lost my mind" I, at the time, thought it was funny, so i laughed, and said jokingly:" wtf? Are you stupid?" Definitely not the best response lol." HAHAHA - wanna bet?! (Thlup!) Okay. I get it. You CAN handle her. And she's intriguing and needs a good long stretch in your mental laboratory. I get it. BUT SHE'S SUBTLY VERY BAD FOR YOU and in ways you've failed to notice for YEARS. Shuffle away imperceptibly. Confide in F2 that you'd rather she and you kept your arrangements together mostly out of F1's radar. "I guess that's it for now: and also i want to ask: i was thinking about talking about a completely unrelated subject that has been torturing me for years basically, but i dont know if its a good idea. I keep getting paranoid that someone who knows me will find this and figure out its me(I know the odds are impossible) So if i talk about this other thing that is a huge secret, i will get even more paranoid. Seriously, it has became a big issue and i get so much anxiety about someone finding this.(im literally shaking while typing this) I even thought what if i die and my parents unlock my phone and read this whole thing. If i talk about the other thing, and someone sees it, my whole family will be ruined. So please, tell me what you think." You're not just a needle in a haystack, you are a QUARK in a haystack. No WAY can anyone identify you. And if it's a human problem, you can bet your a*se that too many other humans are going through the same sort of problem. The thing to do is to always delete your History (where visiting here is concerned). All anyone knows is you're a young female from SOMEWHERE on Planet Earth. That's it! And no WAY are we going to help any third party identify you ("How's about NO?" LOL). No, you're completely safe. You're probably just not ready yet. Also, if it helps - normally, I can tell, but with you - at first I thought you were a bloke (cheesy apologetic grin). And for all I know - you still could be! (I don't care - just saying, it helps.)

PS: Nobody knows anything identificatory about me apart from the fact I have a son and now live in Spain (and am I long-time Narc-slayer/Victim-rescuer and walking Encyclopedia who knows their stuff to the Nth). They don't know whether I'm male or female, my age, whether he's blood or adopted...nothing. And yet I've been on here......I've forgotten, hang on (scrolling up hahah)...over 10 years. So you, have got nothing, zip, zilch, to worry about. But let that info sink in and do it's work, then see how you feel. :)

Hi there! So much stuff has happened since last time, i had a guy i barely knew ask me to be his girlfriend (i said no), i have become super close with a friend from tutoring, i went on a trip with my uni, and i think i became friends with the girls i staying with? I think im starting to develop a crush on one of them, (which is not good at all, cause she's straight) i even had a dream about her today, i think you can guess what it was about😅 I'll start answering your questions now . "Why did you wait for her to text you? Are you too used to other people (e.g. F1) always doing the arranging? Oh my god exactly! I was never the one who arranged, i would just say we should go here or there, and she would deal with everything else. Anyways, i had no issue with doing the arranging with f2 the first times we met up, but after i started thinking stuff like, what if she actually doesn't like me and says "we should meet again" just out of politeness? But i put that aside a few days ago and texted her again. I said we should go out whenever she has time (because she's in medical school and it's exam period now) she said yes, sure, but never actually told me when she wanted to go out. So I don't know... I hate feeling like i have to beg someone to go out with me. "But I just want to check something: Where was the emphasis - was it: (a) "I like it when my *romantic* partners are a little bit jealous...?" (b) "I *like* it when my romantic partners are a little it jealous (full-stop, no rise in tone)"" Definitely b." Aw shite." What is the difference between the two? Why shite? Im curious now lol "However, i must admit that the lines between us being friends or a couple are blurred sometimes" Yup. Typical. And I've had that (even bolder) done to me (and others I know) LOADS of times - and worse. They're testing your boundaries, seeing whether it'll push your buttons. Example: fairly new friend...comes to supper with myself and kid...they got drunk so had to stay over...bed time, spare room, calls me in ("Here a tick?")...walk in: half naked on the bed - "Can I have a cuddle?". I erred on the side of caution in case they WEREN'T just drunk and replied: "Uh?!?" (as in WTF?, followed by)....How's about *No*?!", swiftly walked out again, and, as I closed the door, going, "I'll let you off this time but don't ever pull that shit on me again, okay? Night!". (Talk about huge 1st Flag. They're Omnisexual (google)...don't care who or what they sleep with because sex/romance with someone is simply a don't care who or what they sleep with door in... a tool like everything else.) " Oh gosh... I think im confused about what's normal and not. Cuddling half naked would be completely typical and normal for us ( we have done that multiple times)but i understand that the situation was more severe because they were drunk. We have kissed too, the first time she did it without asking, while she thought i was asleep, but i was so sleepy i didn't react and then completely forgot about it until months after. I never mentioned it to her because i thought that she had forgotten too. The second time was actually when i went to her house with friend two, and we dancing at a party when she just turned around and asked me to kiss her. I did and i never thought much of it. Isn't it normal for best friends to kiss sometimes? Im really confused now. Anyways, i think that right now we are at a very good spot. We have been talking every day since i came back from her house. "You're not just a needle in a haystack, you are a QUARK in a haystack. No WAY can anyone identify you. And if it's a human problem, you can bet your a*se that too many other humans are going through the same sort of problem." I know there's no way someone will find me, the issue is that i get anxiety because of it, even when i know it's impossible. I did find someone with the exact situation as mine. "you're completely safe. You're probably just not ready yet. I agree, i don't think im ready yet. I will probably talk about it next time im extremely upset or mad about it though. "Also, if it helps - normally, I can tell, but with you - at first I thought you were a bloke (cheesy apologetic grin). And for all I know - you still could be! (I don't care - just saying, it helps.)" HAHAHAHA im definitely not, and i realised i never wrote down my gender in the first post a long time after! So that's it for now i guess. See you!

"Hi there! So much stuff has happened since last time, i had a guy i barely knew ask me to be his girlfriend (i said no), i have become super close with a friend from tutoring, i went on a trip with my uni, and i think i became friends with the girls i staying with? I think im starting to develop a crush on one of them, (which is not good at all, cause she's straight) i even had a dream about her today, i think you can guess what it was about😅" WOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW-UH! Now, if that isn't proof-positive that all you needed was the MAP to the monkey on your back so you could fling it off, finally, and then dart around too much for it to be able to aim itself back on, and LOOK. What.A.Trans.For.MATION - in record time! Never MIND you said no - it's the fact that a bloke ASKED, which means, you don't smell of Monkey any more! You smell of You! And - honestly - it's really lovely. So blokes are responding accordingly. Voila! And a new instant friendship connection, to-boot. (Still take it at normal, cautious pace, though (think, car test-drive). Don't let anyone rush you or chatter endlessly and chaotically at you or you won't have a chance to analyse anything as you go; everything will be a blur or you might get switched to Auto Pilot.) Expect more of that. :) Oh wait - there IS more! AND friendZUH from this trip? Crikey, without the Monkey pong, you must smell irrestitible! Don't just assume the crush has anything to do with homosexuality. That can happen when you have just too much like for the person that you don't know what to do with it or where to put it. It'll calm down. (Maybe google 'why do I feel like I have a romantic crush on my platonic friend?' or some such.) I'm going to continue with the rest tomorrow, but - what a fantastic 'rags to riches' outcome for giving other victims reading, the realisation that - if people act like you smell, it's probably because too much of the time you're carrying an invisible monkey (rabid or not) on your back. That's all there is to it. I am SOOOOO pleased for you! :)))))) (Can I do my Toldja! dance yet? Hahaha!)

(Haha! Next problem that you're probably going to be reporting about is that you've suddenly got TOO MANY friends and can't keep up or handle them all! That's usually how it goes. Like a pendulum losing kenesis, it settles down, back to the middle ground (Moderate/Balanced). And then someone leaves, someone arrives, and it starts up again... One of life's challenges once you're healed and back to 'you, unladen', that is...trying to have just enough friends rather than too many or not enough. And some friends are just meant to be stepping stones. Others can be whole motorways. Others can be destinations in themselves... Loneliness is just a phase. Sometimes, it's inner-you knowing to shut yourself away or give off Busy vibes because, like Einstein, you need space and quiet to work out the oh-so-elusive (until you know...see it once, can't un-see it and all that) problem. Never forget that in future ("Nobody panic!"). And that even just one significant lifestyle/routine- or attitude-adjustment is like one tiny snowball tossed onto a snowy slope.....The Snowball Effect. (Haha, looks like you tossed yours and by the time it hit the bottom, you had a ready-made snowman - face, included!) I think somebody 'up there' likes you. Talk about instant reward for having done your Uni of Life homework.

Hi again! "Never MIND you said no - it's the fact that a bloke ASKED, which means, you don't smell of Monkey any more! You smell of You! And - honestly - it's really lovely. So blokes are responding accordingly." Honestly, im not glad that he did. That guy was WEIRD A.F "And a new instant friendship connection, to-boot. (Still take it at normal, cautious pace, though (think, car test-drive). Don't let anyone rush you or chatter endlessly and chaotically at you or you won't have a chance to analyse anything as you go; everything will be a blur or you might get switched to Auto Pilot.)" Soo, I guess i was exaggerating things when i wrote about making friends, probably because i was excited... We are nowhere near being friends, but im glad i got to know them and that they are aware of the fact that im a good person. I had good chemistry with all of them and they made me feel like a "normal person". I felt like i was a part of a friendgroup again after a long time. My last friendgroup from highschool sucked, not gonna lie, since we all secretly hated each other. Still, i miss being part of something. "Don't just assume the crush has anything to do with homosexuality. That can happen when you have just too much like for the person that you don't know what to do with it or where to put it. It'll calm down. (Maybe google 'why do I feel like I have a romantic crush on my platonic friend?' or some such.)" I mean, i know that i like guys and girls ( not very sure about neither, since i haven't been with anyone, ever) When it comes to that girl, i was always attracted to her, by looks only and then i got to know her, and it turned out i was attracted to her personality too. The crush will go away, im sure, since uni is ending and i wont see her again until October. So bye for now! ( waiting for you to answer to the rest)

Be with you tomorrow WT (internet probs and now got guests)!

Heya! "Honestly, im not glad that he did. That guy was WEIRD A.F" So what? Weird AF can have good taste too? Still missing the point (or playing over-Modest?). The sudden transformation of how you're vibing, is the only thing that I'm interested in. Maybe because you're not quite ready enough, still, you attracted the attention of a MILDER Narc. Making heads turn, being allyuring, is the point. Won't be long now. "Soo, I guess i was exaggerating things when i wrote about making friends, probably because i was excited... We are nowhere near being friends, but im glad i got to know them and that they are aware of the fact that im a good person. I had good chemistry with all of them and they made me feel like a "normal person". I felt like i was a part of a friendgroup again after a long time. My last friendgroup from highschool sucked, not gonna lie, since we all secretly hated each other. Still, i miss being part of something." Making a connection as leads to firm friendship, then (whether or not you pursue it - and clearly you're expected to be the pursuer so - if you like being in control of your social calendar - go for it, be the "arranger"). I think you're more powerful a presence than you think you are. More getting to know New You required, that's all. "Don't just assume the crush has anything to do with homosexuality. That can happen when you have just too much like for the person that you don't know what to do with it or where to put it. It'll calm down. (Maybe google 'why do I feel like I have a romantic crush on my platonic friend?' or some such.)" I mean, i know that i like guys and girls ( not very sure about neither, since i haven't been with anyone, ever) When it comes to that girl, i was always attracted to her, by looks only and then i got to know her, and it turned out i was attracted to her personality too. The crush will go away, im sure, since uni is ending and i wont see her again until October." I hope you aren't sure. How boring would life be if you always knew what was going to be drawn to you at the next corner? "So bye for now! ( waiting for you to answer to the rest)" I'll be doing that this evening. Got guests but they're online at the mo, which is why I seized my chance. Laters self-underestimating-gater! (We're going to change that for-sure!)

(Tsk...allyuring...bloody Nora, my fingers have taken on a life of their own. For the kids at home: Alluring.)

Hey! Is everything ok?

It wasn't - I had internet connection probs (kept spitting me out during Submit or wouldn't load the full threads), but it seems to be back to normal now. But then since Friday until earlier this evening, I had a downstairs tummy upset. Haaaah, my glamorous life... - aren't you jealous? Sorry to worry you - will read up now...

I'm lost! What have I still to catch-up with and respond to? I thought I'd caught-up? Help me out here? (Thoweee) Oh, wait - was it these bits? " I had good chemistry with all of them and they made me feel like a "normal person". I felt like i was a part of a friendgroup again after a long time. My last friendgroup from highschool sucked, not gonna lie, since we all secretly hated each other. Still, i miss being part of something." Well, that made me laugh out-loud because - you ARE a normal-healthy person. You are genuinely a PERSON, for starters! So that actually should read: It reminded me that I AM NOT THE PROBLEMATIC ELEMENT. 'Part of something'? What are we - chopped liver? Your response posts were really good. Why aren't you doing more of them? Remember I said, it's incredible for pumping back up your confidence and self-esteem? E.g. do you know why, bottom-line, people commit suicide? Answer: they're convinced no-one wants or needs them - ber-bom. And then there's helping in the (mainly Western) worldwide tug-o-war between normal-healthies and world-destroying Narcs (by educating and warning victims who are new to La-La Land and its Narcissistic brand of abuse)...making the world a better place ('starting with the 'man' in the mirror).... I'd be here all day but you surely can tell by now that I'm bursting with indelible confidence (at a level that makes trolls seethe with envy and resentment)? Not why I do it - I'm aiming higher (highest!) but, it's a handy side bonus; in fact, a giant Life Tool, without which, one is pretty paralysed and defenceless... Loads of benefits as make it a truly symbiotic exchange and healing aid. You don't HAVE to be in the same room, physically, as other people to be in their company. We're all Brains In Jars here, but, without a brain, we'd be nothing. We all of us are just walking brains. And I'm saying that, totally sober! HAHA! Was this the next bit? : "I know there's no way someone will find me, the issue is that i get anxiety because of it, even when i know it's impossible. I did find someone with the exact situation as mine." Excellent - whose thread? So have you ever FELT you have a more-decent-than-average chunk of Male Side to you? Do you suppose GF1 predator-senses this? Or is she that hands-on with other of her 'friends'? PS: "My last friendgroup from highschool sucked, not gonna lie, since we all secretly hated each other. Still, i miss being part of something." That made me laugh. 'Not gonona lie, since we all secretly hated each other'. HAHA - love it! That's supreme honesty for ya! But then, you can't BE friends with Narcs, just their competitor, and role-model, and 'je ne sais quoi' (allure) stealer (copying and mimicking you when you're not there), and minion all the way to slave and whipping-girl/boy, and-and-and. The healthy Normas and Normans come out of that once they leave school. Not too-far-gone Narcs. And then suddenly you're at an age where their immaturity and inaneness and general interrelational dysfunctions including transgressing as well as having no, Boundaries - all of it - starts to stick out like a sore thumb in the adult world/environment (college, uni, work, steady romances...) and you go, Haaaan on a cotton pickin' minute (etc.). "Anyways, i think that right now we are at a very good spot. We have been talking every day since i came back from her house." How's she been behaving since you wrote that? And how are things generally? And hows F2? (If I've still missed something(s) out that I'm aware of, again, please paste it in for me?)

Hello! "It wasn't - I had internet connection probs (kept spitting me out during Submit or wouldn't load the full threads), but it seems to be back to normal now. But then since Friday until earlier this evening, I had a downstairs tummy upset." Yikes! Hope you're alright now.. "I know there's no way someone will find me, the issue is that i get anxiety because of it, even when i know it's impossible. I did find someone with the exact situation as mine." Excellent - whose thread?" Well i decided it's time to talk about it. My mom has been cheating on my dad for years, with at least two men, I've known since i was twelve. With the first guy, i guess thigs dried out pretty quickly, they stopped talking, i think the same year i found out( when i was twelve). Then there was nothing. This past year i saw all the signs again. She changed her password, started hiding her phone from me, spent hours talking on it. I actually knew the guy this time, he brings us supplies for our small business. So she has brought him into our home multiple times. I admit that i went through her phone, i know that was a violation of her privacy, but i was sure something was going on. Certainly enough, they were calling each other babe, sending hearts, saying I LOVE YOU. What the hell? They couldn't have known each other more that a few months when i saw that. And she was telling him EVERYTHING about me. At this point, i wish i didn't know but it was impossible to miss it. She has done many things that are unforgivable to me, like shamelessly lying to me all the time, gaslighting me example: i see a teddy bear in her closet, i know very well he gave it her. I ask: where did you get this? - This? We've had it for years, don't you remember? - No, I've never seen it before. - Are you crazy? We've had it since you were children, i brought it from the attic. - What? I swear I've never seen it before And that's where i usually drop it cause im tired. Last year she took me on vacation and she made me stay in a house he owned. When i realise i wanted to get out of there as fast as possible. Then he actually showed up to "visit" us and she stayed in the house alone with with him while i had gone to the beach. How stupid does she think i am? Then there are these business trips that she goes on, in which He drives her( she usually lies and says she takes the bus) Every Time i tell her to take me with her she says no, " because we'll spend too much money" I'm so tired of the lies, and I've tried to (very subtly) make her understand that i know and to drop the bullshit. I don't know if she's caught up with it. I'm not planning to say anything to my dad, we're really not close and my mom is all i have. But this situation makes me sick.

"So have you ever FELT you have a more-decent-than-average chunk of Male Side to you? No, not at all. If i understand the question right, I'm very feminine, i dress and act like it. Do you suppose GF1 predator-senses this? Or is she that hands-on with other of her 'friends'?" Well I'm not sure what she does with them, but I've never seen like that with someone else. "Anyways, i think that right now we are at a very good spot. We have been talking every day since i came back from her house." How's she been behaving since you wrote that? And how are things generally? Not very well. I have been really down lately. One reason is i was supposed to be part of a student training program with my university. We would travel and stay for free in a big excavation cite and train in it. I was one of the few people that qualified for it, and i still wasn't selected. I was almost certain i was going to go, that was my mistake. Me and my friend from uni (or the girl i was closest with) talked about it all the time, how we would stay together and we would have so much fun. Yeah... She was selected and I wasn't. So i am extremely disappointed. When it comes to F1 things are also not very good. We started talking less and less again. She barely tells me what's going on with her anymore. All i know is she started a new job and is very busy. We were planning to go on vacation together, but I don't think it's going to happen. Last year, me her and our other friend, lets say F3, were going to go together, we had booked hotels and everything. One week before we were supposed to go F3 cancelled on us, saying her parents wouldn't let her go. Turns out her parents wouldn't let her from the beginning and had made that very clear, but she thought she could change their minds before we went. (All that while lying to us two that everything was perfectly fine) Well, she couldn't, and we cancelled the whole thing. So after that F1 and me promised we would next year, just the two of us. We had a destination and around june i told her we should book something cause hotels were already almost full. She told me not to worry about it and that her dad would arrange everything. He works with hotels so i thought, ok perfect. July comes and i hadn't heard anything yet. So i ask her and she says we'll schedule everything in the end of July. End of July comes, i hadn't heard anything, so i ask again. She says come over for a few days when I'm done with my exams next week and we'll schedule everything. Guess what? Next week comes, she doesn't tell me anything. So i ask again, when should i come over? She says the week after this one. I was pissed at this point, so I'm like: didn't we say this week a few days ago? Of course she has an excuse, she works double shift, whatever. I'm convinced she just doesn't want to go with me, or has something else arranged and doesn't want to tell me. A few months ago we were so excited about this, what happened? I don't know anymore. If we end up not going, it will be my last straw.

"And hows F2?" I have no idea, she never replied to me. Maybe i should ask again? (If I've still missed something(s) out that I'm aware of, again, please paste it in for me?) I think you missed this: "But I just want to check something: Where was the emphasis - was it: (a) "I like it when my *romantic* partners are a little bit jealous...?" (b) "I *like* it when my romantic partners are a little it jealous (full-stop, no rise in tone)"" Definitely b." Aw shite." What is the difference between the two? Why shite? Im curious now lol" So that's it for now! Hope your stomach is better

Not ignoring you, just super-busy at the mo. Be with you asap.

Yes of course! Take your time

Right! Finally! A hundred Sorrys! "Yikes! Hope you're alright now.." Nnnnnnnope! I am, interweb-wise, but - calamities going on all around me and guess whose shoulder....Yip - mine. Like a pal of mine...his friend and band-member just died...the guy was only 52(!). Me and others had arranged to go watch him and his band this Thursday. Friend had just early retired (due to past stressors), to relax more, and had only just increased the band's weekly bookings...and then - Bam! (I guess that's a Big Fat No from Fate, then?).....And other things n stuff. And crap contractors (as per). Oh, and son's pride-and-joy, long-pimped sportscar got stolen. ...Yep, all fun 'n games at my end and bang goes my Do Eff-All Summer that I so hard-prepared for (whaaaah!). 'Still...mustn't grumble...at least the weather's always good'. (Oh yeah? I'm sweating in places I didn't even know I *could* sweat in!) (Ew, sorry...meant behind my ears.) ""I know there's no way someone will find me, the issue is that i get anxiety because of it, even when i know it's impossible. I did find someone with the exact situation as mine." "Excellent - whose thread?" "Well i decided it's time to talk about it. My mom has been cheating on my dad for years, with at least two men, I've known since i was twelve." (Here - didn't you have a previous thread about this?...and about your sister now knowing and your dad in denial?? Or was that someone else and this thread you could relate to that you're talking about?) "With the first guy, i guess thigs dried out pretty quickly, they stopped talking, i think the same year i found out( when i was twelve)." FFS....worst age to find out. And it is SUCH a betrayal! "Then there was nothing. This past year i saw all the signs again." Meeeeh. "She changed her password, started hiding her phone from me, spent hours talking on it. I actually knew the guy this time, he brings us supplies for our small business. So she has brought him into our home multiple times. I admit that i went through her phone, i know that was a violation of her privacy, but i was sure something was going on." A violation? Ollocks was it! It was REACTIVE. In a court of law, that ("Reactive Violation"/"Abuse") would be deemed, (urgent) Psychological Self-Defense. For starters, she shouldn't have let you get wind of all of this to begin with. It shouldn't BE HAPPENING to begin with! Her bad, not yours. NOT GUILTY! - and - GOOD FOR YOU, SECRET SQUIRREL NUMBER (er)....one zillion, 500 million and (um) fnumph-de-fnumphy-whumphy... - good for you! You're NOBODY'S victim, are ya. Even at 12. ("Thlup!") "Certainly enough, they were calling each other babe, sending hearts, saying I LOVE YOU. What the hell?" I'll see your WTH and raise you an F. "They couldn't have known each other more that a few months when i saw that." How effed-up. How entirely corruptly characteristic. We know what this means your mother is, don't we. THO-WEEEEE (((hug))). But you clearly already know/suspect. "And she was telling him EVERYTHING about me." HUH?!?! Such as? Do you think she did that deliberately in the hope you'd be unable to help BUT confront her, so she's know you were secretly reading? "At this point, i wish i didn't know but it was impossible to miss it." Welcome to Adulthood. (Give her a few more centuries and maybe she'll join ya.) (Sorry, I know she's your....er...supposed to be your mother-protector but - COME OOOON...AT HER AGE?! What is she - 13?...still two-timing her boyfriends behind the bike shed?? Guh-ROW...UP, BabyMother!) "She has done many things that are unforgivable to me, like shamelessly lying to me all the time, gaslighting me example: i see a teddy bear in her closet, i know very well he gave it her. I ask: where did you get this? - This? We've had it for years, don't you remember? - No, I've never seen it before. - Are you crazy? We've had it since you were children, i brought it from the attic. - What? I swear I've never seen it before And that's where i usually drop it cause im tired." Doesn't matter if you drop it. You can't unsee or unthink it. The important point is, YOU KNOW IT. "Last year she took me on vacation and she made me stay in a house he owned." After only a couple of months? HE COULD HAVE BEEN AN AXE-MURDERER FOR ALL SHE KNEW? Changed my mind. She's 8-10. "When i realise i wanted to get out of there as fast as possible. Then he actually showed up to "visit" us and she stayed in the house alone with with him while i had gone to the beach. How stupid does she think i am?" She's not relying on your stupidity - because you're not so she can't. She's relying on your LOYALTY and loathness to (again?) inform your father. "Then there are these business trips that she goes on," Oh, right, yeah, sure - business-cough!-trips...Yeah, I know all about those. "in which He drives her( she usually lies and says she takes the bus) Every Time i tell her to take me with her she says no, " because we'll spend too much money" Ollocks. "I'm so tired of the lies, and I've tried to (very subtly) make her understand that i know and to drop the bullshit. I don't know if she's caught up with it." See loyalty comment. And now add fear and insecurity:- "I'm not planning to say anything to my dad, we're really not close and my mom is all i have. But this situation makes me sick." That person is all you (think you) have. No normal, healthy, genuinely adult mother behaves like that nor towards her daughter like that - end of. And no-one goes from clean to filthy dirty like that; it's too chasmic. So, I'm sorry, but - you've *never* had a mother. Except for yourself (Super-Mum). Loads better than her as well, cos - look at you today! :)))))) Don't worry - you'll end up (as per the victim/scapegoat script for this situation) meeting a woman her age somewhere who'll find you irresistible and vice-versa and adopt one another. So what's the story with your sister - what's she saying now?

(Meant informally adopt, btw.) But...No WAY are you 18. Only on paper. Adult born in Kid Suit, for-sure! If I knew you in RL, I'd adopt you! Damn right! But it's still not your job to tell your Dad. That's his business and his decision if he wishes to look the other way. Maybe he has prostate problems and has let her have a separate sex-life?? Well, there's not much you can do about the fact your mother's psycho-emotionally crippled, realistically-speaking, except for one thing: we change your attitude and feelings about it. STARTING with the fact she's an 'invisible' cripple in an invisible wheelchair. And I'm betting it was both her parents put her there! NOW, with THAT in-mind, judge her out of 10 for wifing and mothering skills. Olympics: nope - not a chance in hell. Paralympics: Quite good, actually, considering?! Silver? Is that doing anything? If not - it's time for you to subtly switch her to just older friend. PS: Welcome to Adulthood. Again. PPS: WHY aren't you and your dad close? Has your, in fact, crippled LITTLE-SISTER-in-mother-suit, by any chance always kind of got in your two's way every time?...kept you apart? (This is standard, Benign Narc mum stuff - have you googled her yet?)

PPPPS: Consider me your surrogate parent until you find (bump into, actually) your real-life version (whereupon Mum gets secretly demoted to just an (hah!) older friend). Might be just weeks, might be a few years - no rush whatsoever, I ain't going anywhere ever-ever. You are ENTITLED to a working-model Mother/Father (and ones that AREN'T YOU YOURSELF!) (but well done! - goooood joooob!!!), it's your BIRTHRIGHT. (Oh, yes, he's almost as bad...no healthy Dad would NOT be close to his own daughter, even by now, fffffffs. Or is he an empty teabag of a victim of hers too thus doesn't have the wherewithall or energy??)) Entitled, do you hear! (*waves pitchfork in air*) So take one. Pick one. Pick loads if you want? Do you know any adults in RL whom you admire or feel safe with and that seems especially drawn to you? Usually there are (especially with someone as Old Soul as you!), but, you're so focussed on the trouble-maker, you tend not to notice. Cease worrying about her and start paying attention and watching more closely, yeah? What are the rellies like?

BTW...Do you realise you're mature than she is? Do you realise that intellectually and emotionally, you weren't just your own mother but hers too? Google Narc Mother-Daughter Relationship - Role Reversal. You didn't just live through a childhood, you lived through a motherhood to two (or three with lil sis?) children. And you clearly did an impressive job! So what brilliant thing (as yet, untapped, but ready to burst forth) does that make YOU, do you think? I mean - there's normal, normal-sized multi-tasking - which is hard enough for an adult - and then there's THAT! So what does that make you? Answer: an effing Genius is what. How dya like THEM apples? :))))))))))

Next post... ""So have you ever FELT you have a more-decent-than-average chunk of Male Side to you? No, not at all. If i understand the question right, I'm very feminine, i dress and act like it."" Maybe you're very feminine to subconsciously-deliberately compensate? Because - no, I meant just in how you think/feel/deal? Do you tend to get along with blokes and enjoy their company better than women? Find their jokes funnier? Anything? "Do you suppose GF1 predator-senses this? Or is she that hands-on with other of her 'friends'?" Well I'm not sure what she does with them, but I've never seen like that with someone else." Was that - I've never been like this with someone else, or, I've never seen her like that with someone else. ? "Anyways, i think that right now we are at a very good spot. We have been talking every day since i came back from her house." "How's she been behaving since you wrote that? And how are things generally?" "Not very well. I have been really down lately." OH. :( "One reason is i was supposed to be part of a student training program with my university. We would travel and stay for free in a big excavation cite and train in it. I was one of the few people that qualified for it, and i still wasn't selected. I was almost certain i was going to go, that was my mistake. Me and my friend from uni (or the girl i was closest with) talked about it all the time, how we would stay together and we would have so much fun. Yeah... She was selected and I wasn't. So i am extremely disappointed." Have you tried ASKING the teacher in-charge why not, considering you qualified? Question: Do you even NEED a teacher?? Haven't you proven you're already your own teacher/mother/father/whatever? I think it's probably because you're OVER-qualified, if you want my honest opinion. You probably intimidate your teacher and make them feel almost redundant. Happens. Pinging? Anyway...if it were up to me, I'd say, keep the archaeology as a hobby/passion and become something less 'Baby Pool' for you. You should be aiming for the Big Pool, or at least the Medium. If as a child you are even CAPABLE of raising yourself (for that prolonged a period to-boot!), then, haha!...you'd get bored of that career in five seconds flat! The psychological version of you is probably 10ft tall and built like a brick sh*t house. OWN IT. (For now - learn to grow into it.) "When it comes to F1 things are also not very good." Yeah...We expected this, though, remember? "We started talking less and less again. She barely tells me what's going on with her anymore. All i know is she started a new job and is very busy." Oh, are you superfluous to requirements again? PFF. She doesn't deserve even a whiff of you. "We were planning to go on vacation together, but I don't think it's going to happen." Me neither. Have my Flakey Person song...but have the real-deal original first so you know the tune and can sing along: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxxLvX2J7r0 Here's my version: "O...nly-the crummmm-bliest, flaaaa-kiest girl-friieends ...taste-like choc'-late that's-been ta-sted be-fooore." :) (*passes around hat*) "Last year, me her and our other friend, lets say F3, were going to go together, we had booked hotels and everything. One week before we were supposed to go F3 cancelled on us, saying her parents wouldn't let her go. Turns out her parents wouldn't let her from the beginning and had made that very clear, but she thought she could change their minds before we went. (All that while lying to us two that everything was perfectly fine)" Sorry, that is sooo typically Narc (Covert), that type of shite. "Well, she couldn't, and we cancelled the whole thing." (Selfish, self-obsessed Cow. Ruin people's precious annual holiday, why doncha!) I've had that done to me when I was in my...er...early 20s I think. Yeah - 24. We (platonic friends) were supposed to holiday in Paris together. Arranged the pigging year before! Never arranged anything with that person ever again because there's flaking (plus last-minute) and then there's *that*. I went on my own, had friends made FOR me (I'd never realised so many people travelled/holidayed alone before!...and you're all instantly drawn to one another)...had a GREAT time. How come you two didn't go regardless? "So after that F1 and me promised we would next year, just the two of us. We had a destination and around june i told her we should book something cause hotels were already almost full. She told me not to worry about it and that her dad would arrange everything. He works with hotels so i thought, ok perfect." Like anyone would? "July comes and i hadn't heard anything yet. So i ask her and she says we'll schedule everything in the end of July. End of July comes, i hadn't heard anything, so i ask again." Time for my Narc Tomorrow song: "Toooooooooooo...morrow, to-mo-rrow... I luv-ya....Too-mo-rrow - You're al-wayyys...a DAAYYY...A....WAAAAY!" (*hat*) " She says come over for a few days when I'm done with my exams next week and we'll schedule everything. Guess what?" Gosh, I just can't think!... "Next week comes, she doesn't tell me anything. So i ask again, when should i come over? She says the week after this one. I was pissed at this point," Yyyyup - been there, as I say... "so I'm like: didn't we say this week a few days ago? Of course she has an excuse, she works double shift, whatever." 'AH CAAAAN'T...I'M A NARCICYST' (sp intentional) "I'm convinced she just doesn't want to go with me," Not 'with you'. Just 'to go'. It's not personal. It should be. But it isn't. Can't bond - can't get personal. " or has something else arranged and doesn't want to tell me." THAT ONE! (Thlup!) Missing-Out Syndrome has caught on but in fact is a Narc affliction, originally. 'NEW shiny thing (grab!)......NEWER shiny thing (chuck/grab!)....even NEWER shiny thing!'. They're desperate to find even a smidgen of Contentedness/Happiness because they ain't got their own inside of them, nor the means to make any (e.g. looking on the bright side....Attitude is everything.) Only from THINGS....including people-things....material stuff...impressing people they barely know (and eff the ones they do!...they're 'Old Hat'. With them, we're all a toy in their toybox. Neglected for months, kept in the dark and cold...until they need or remember us again. THEY CAN'NE BOND, CAP'N, SO THEIRRR SHIP'S ALWAYS ABOOUT TO CRRASH! Constantly desperate for the next novel thing. Constant novelty-and buzz-seeking. " A few months ago we were so excited about this, what happened? I don't know anymore. If we end up not going, it will be my last straw." Why don't we take back the power to where it rightfully belongs? Why don't you say: 'TIME'S UP, missus - I'm going to ask another friend if you can't give me a committed Yes by tomorrow Midnight latest...I've given you more than ample time so - no-one can blame me for this.' (...And ask F2 instead? Or not(?).) And then STICK TO IT. ? You saying, Please don't X/Y, gets you nowhere. It's only actions/consequences that Narcs believe/take seriously. Unless they're a malignant and then they deliberately DO do X/Y (cos now they know it pisses you off and will shave another Nth of an inch from your towering height) in such a way as to avoid consequence ("tying your hands", it's called). The holiday 'agreement' was clearly just a carrot to keep you hanging on. Swat Narx Do. You were probably her back-up plan. Which may or may not still be grabbed for (if the person she's currently targetting and chasing gets away or backs out)...in which case, don't let her. I know it means YOU suffering alongside, but it's worth it, even for the shoot-up in self-pride alone. New Mantra: "Who the eff does she think she is!!! MORE to the point - who the eff does she think *I* am?!...treating me like this!?" OR you could text her this: 'So all this putting-off and putting-off... What are you trying to achieve here? I mean, is this supposed to be ENDEARING you to me or something?' ...and that's all...let her get worried for a change, evade any discussion/be unavailable and see what she does...see if suddenly she comes up with a Yes and can prove it. (I still wouldn't trust her, would still pick someone else to go with or look into singles holiday packages - which apparently are easy-peasy and GREAT fun...new friends galore). Nobody puts Baby in the corner! You are nobody's back-up plan or safety-net. New mantra: EITHER FINALLY PISS OR GET OFF MY POT! YOU'RE STOPPING ANYONE ELSE FROM SITTING THERE! (And in more ways than just physically.) PS I'm not going on holiday either. Cos I already am haha! (..well, location-wise anyway.) But I'll be around - and HOPEFULLY less non-stop busy, jeeZAZ! No, I'll bust a gut to be available. You tell me the dates and I'll put your posts at the top of my priority list (well, bar any post that is an emergency...you know what I mean). So now you know you'll have company during this period if you need it, which should give you the confidence required to send that text. In FACT (ping!) it wouldn't be a lie to now tell her you've had another offer but are just being polite in checking with her first in case she CAN book the holiday after all. This shows her that you suspect you know what she's playing at. PLUS, shows her there are parts to your life that SHE doesn't know about (prrth!). If she steps up, try to make HER do the booking on her card for the travel/flights, basically the GETTING there, whereas, you pay (for whatever works out even) for something you'll both need ONLY ONCE YOU ARE ACTUALLY THERE (e.g. the first few meals out)...because that way, if you don't get there because she still flakes (11th Hour), you haven't wasted any money - only SHE has (or, if she was lying, hasn't..but YOU haven't, is the point). Is that a plan, Stan?

Oh, there was this straggler as well. I expect you've worked it out by now but - for the folks at home: ""But I just want to check something: Where was the emphasis - was it: (a) "I like it when my *romantic* partners are a little bit jealous...?" (b) "I *like* it when my romantic partners are a little it jealous (full-stop, no rise in tone)"" Definitely b." Aw shite." What is the difference between the two? Why shite? Im curious now lol"" Answer: Because it meant you had "my" same ex-friend, the one tried to jump-snog me n sh*t, and keep other people away from me/put them off/scare them off/steal-micro date-dump them off and away from me, even... because, as she saw it, I was "her property". (I beg your effing pardon?!) They SO want to possess/own/consume/BECOME you and keep you all to themselves (at their convenience only, of course) that they will even pretend to be lesbian/gay and have a romantic-sexual relationship with you, like love-making is just another form of currency or unspoken-bargaining chip. Prostitutes, basically. I know what they're like. They're the hardest to get rid of, too, in actual fact. Especially when...we'd basically grown up together. Very close family friends, always at each other's houses. She more than once opened my Christmas presents when Christmassing at our house. I didn't mind because hers were better, haha (I got a really cool, multiple-display torth out of it...and an Etch-a-Sketch...loads more than mine, too, haha). But even at that young age (7), I could plainly work-out that she really envied me and wanted to be me/have my life and my parents. Found out at a later age why. Little backstabber, trouble-maker, advantage-taker, mis-appropriater, tealeaf (started age 6), under the guise of arse-licker, she was. LIKE HER PARENTS whom then did a huge dirty on mine and - poof! - they were excised for-life. She hoovered me again when I was your (paper) age - 18 - using the Pity Ploy. Although - she didn't. I just decided I'd study her and get something out of the last 18 pigging years. So I let her. And YEP - attempt-backstabbed me again (tried to put my friend off me...which failed - friend told me immediately). And that was it. Told her to eff-off and never dare contact me again unless she wanted the comeuppance that was waiting for her with her name on it and that it included for *all her past crimes, now I knew that's what they'd definitely were, ....so haven't seen her since (*she probably pictured a nuclear bombing hahaha!). One less monkey and lots of important data! (I've tried every type in every situation/role, I have.) (No wonder I'm knackered haha!) They're secretly scared of you ('All bullies secretly are cowards'), which is WHY they try to isolate, contain, tame and shrink you by tying you in knots to the wall, to begin with (think about it) plus (the Benigns and Vulnerables) are always turning on the boo-hoos whenever you try to confront them over what they've done, with a view to banning said misbehaviours. (They don't WANT things changed - things are cushy for spoilt-yet-neglected-brat Them-Them-Them.) The good news here is that you're 'attracting' only Benign NPDs. That's good news from multiple angles. Can you guess or work out any?

Nnnnnnnope! I am, interweb-wise, but - calamities going on all around me and guess whose shoulder....Yip - mine. Like a pal of mine...his friend and band-member just died...the guy was only 52(!). Me and others had arranged to go watch him and his band this Thursday. Friend had just early retired (due to past stressors), to relax more, and had only just increased the band's weekly bookings...and then - Bam! (I guess that's a Big Fat No from Fate, then?)..... Jeez... So sorry about your friend And other things n stuff. And crap contractors (as per). Oh, and son's pride-and-joy, long-pimped sportscar got stolen. ...Yep, all fun 'n games at my end and bang goes my Do Eff-All Summer that I so hard-prepared for (whaaaah!). Stolen?? How did that even happen? 'Still...mustn't grumble...at least the weather's always good'. (Oh yeah? I'm sweating in places I didn't even know I *could* sweat in!) (Ew, sorry...meant behind my ears.) Hahaha same! We must have similar weather, Greece and Spain ( if you are in spain) It's around 40 degrees here everyday and we just had a big fire in my city. I was Literally where it started the previous day! And my whole dads side of the family lives in the area so we were really scared. Thankfully noone was hurt though. "Here - didn't you have a previous thread about this?...and about your sister now knowing and your dad in denial?? Or was that someone else and this thread you could relate to that you're talking about?)" No, that wasn't me. It was the one i related to. It's crazy cause the moment i wrote that to you, i log out and i see the thread of something with the exact same problem... "And she was telling him EVERYTHING about me." HUH?!?! Such as? Do you think she did that deliberately in the hope you'd be unable to help BUT confront her, so she's know you were secretly reading?" She was telling him, at least in the few texts i read, about my school (it was the period of my uni entrance exams), how nervous i was, what university i was going to get into, my faculty, my grades... I don't think she did that deliberately. She'd kill me if she knew i went through her phone. Seriously, I've never seen someone GUARD their phone like that. She wouldn't even let me FIX IT when it had some issues. And from what i saw, she deletes the entire conversation every time when they're done talking. "But it's still not your job to tell your Dad. That's his business and his decision if he wishes to look the other way. Maybe he has prostate problems and has let her have a separate sex-life??" Those were my thoughts exactly. I don't know what the hell is going on between them. It's their business. But i do believe my dad is clueless. "PPS: WHY aren't you and your dad close? Ever since i was a kid, i knew my parents didn't love each other. I have never seen them do "couple things", whatever those are, i wouldn't know, since I've never been exposed to an actual relationship. They are housemates. Nothing more than that. I remember when i was little, i asked my mom why they won't get a divorce. She looked at me like i was crazy. She said: i would never do that. I asked her why, she said it's not possible. My dad is i guess what you would call physically present, emotionally absent and a workaholic. My mom basically raised me and my brother alone, when it comes to parenting. My dad was always our only provider. Is this why my mom won't leave? I don't know. Every time these two speak, it ends with an argument. Can i blame her for seeking someone her? I feel like I can't. They have been together since she was younger THAN ME. That blows my mind every time i think about it. So many years and she didn't realise something was wrong? I want to be close to my dad, i really do, but he never actually talks to me. I don't know how to describe this, of course we talk, but never about anything important. I feel like I don't know anything about him. "Has your, in fact, crippled LITTLE-SISTER-in-mother-suit, by any chance always kind of got in your two's way every time?...kept you apart? (This is standard, Benign Narc mum stuff - have you googled her yet?)" I remember the day my grandfather- his father died(this happened this year)me and my mom went to his work. My mom wanted to leave early, and told me to come with her. My dad told me to stay with him and keep him company. I told him I'd stay. My mom said no, you will not stay here. She started yelling at him- the day his father died- and dragged me outside. I asked her what the hell that was, and she said: i just didn't want to go home alone, obviously a lie. I wish so much that i had went back. I think about this all the time. I felt terrible, disgusting even that i didn't stand up against her and stayed with him. I waited two hours outside the door for him to come back. And i kept thinking, how could she treat him like this on the day his father died? When the same thing happened to her, she was crippled.

"PPPPS: Consider me your surrogate parent until you find (bump into, actually) your real-life version (whereupon Mum gets secretly demoted to just an (hah!) older friend). Might be just weeks, might be a few years - no rush whatsoever, I ain't going anywhere ever-ever." Well that made me emotional. Thank you so much for being here, and putting so much effort into answering to me every time. I feel like i actually know you, you know? "Do you know any adults in RL whom you admire or feel safe with and that seems especially drawn to you? Usually there are (especially with someone as Old Soul as you!), but, you're so focussed on the trouble-maker, you tend not to notice. Cease worrying about her and start paying attention and watching more closely, yeah?" I do have a lot of family. I have my Grandma, who i cherish, and my aunt. And by the way, my aunt, my mom's older sister, definitely knows of her doings as well. And i have serious suspicions that she, as well is cheating on her long term boyfriend. I couldn't be sure, thought. But what the hell? Is it a family thing? Am i going to be like that? And why am i the one finding out everyone's secrets? They need to hide them better i swear, cause i have zero desire to know.

"Maybe you're very feminine to subconsciously-deliberately compensate? Because - no, I meant just in how you think/feel/deal? Do you tend to get along with blokes and enjoy their company better than women? Find their jokes funnier? Anything?" No, none of that. I haven't had guy friends since primary school. Why does that matter? "Do you suppose GF1 predator-senses this? Or is she that hands-on with other of her 'friends'?" Well I'm not sure what she does with them, but I've never seen like that with someone else." Was that - I've never been like this with someone else, or, I've never seen her like that with someone else. ?" It was the second i meant. But sure, I've never been like that with someone either.

One reason is i was supposed to be part of a student training program with my university. We would travel and stay for free in a big excavation cite and train in it. I was one of the few people that qualified for it, and i still wasn't selected. I was almost certain i was going to go, that was my mistake. Me and my friend from uni (or the girl i was closest with) talked about it all the time, how we would stay together and we would have so much fun. Yeah... She was selected and I wasn't. So i am extremely disappointed." Haha this is very ironic now, cause the whole thing whas cancelled. The university dropped my faculty's funding soo noones gonna go lol. "Have you tried ASKING the teacher in-charge why not, considering you qualified?" I know why, i messed up something in my exam. But the requirement was to PASS the exam, he didn't say he would choose the like, two people who aced it, the asshole. If i knew that i would have studied more. Anyways, it doesn't matter now haha Question: Do you even NEED a teacher?? Haven't you proven you're already your own teacher/mother/father/whatever? I'm pretty sure i need a professor at university haha "Anyway...if it were up to me, I'd say, keep the archaeology as a hobby/passion and become something less 'Baby Pool' for you. You should be aiming for the Big Pool, or at least the Medium." Well it is the only thing i ever wanted to do, job wise, and i actually love studying it. But the reality is the odds i find a job in my field are low. I actually want to go into preservation of artifacts, if that is possible. It is extremely hard but if i manage that i will probably have a place somewhere.

"We were planning to go on vacation together, but I don't think it's going to happen." Me neither." Well... Were not gonna go lol. There is something strange going on with her. Im going over to hers next week, probably at least, so ill find out what's going on. There is NO WAY her parents would let her spend her entire summer in another city, working double shifts every day. Her dad cried when she didn't come over for Christmas.They are wealthy, she doesn't even need to work. They go on vacation every year. What happend this year? Something is going on for sure. I asked her when the hell we're going to book and she finally told me her boss won't give her extra days off, cause she's new or something. I saw the text and I didn't respond at once to think of what to say. Then i completely forgot about it hahaha. I had ditched my phone somewhere and i was painting so i didn't check it for hours. When i opened it i had four missed calls and a hundred texts from her. She thought i was mad at her and wasn't responding when I didn't give a shit actually lol. I knew it was gonna happen anyways. She apologised a million times and it seems she actually won't be going anywhere. I asked why didn't tell me she had no days off earlier and she said she actually just discussed it. I don't believe that, obviously. But we will definitely talk about this when (if) i go over, so I'll keep you updated.

She has actually been texting me every day since that happened, checking up on me. Everytime she messes up she goes back to this, and then she stops after a while. But I've noticed something else weird... She said all her friends are there as well. None of them are from this city... Don't these people have homes? Families? Friends? What the hell is going on over there? Did they join a cult? Are they being held captive? Why does this sound like the begining of a horror movie? "PS I'm not going on holiday either. Cos I already am haha! (..well, location-wise anyway.) But I'll be around - and HOPEFULLY less non-stop busy, jeeZAZ! No, I'll bust a gut to be available. You tell me the dates and I'll put your posts at the top of my priority list (well, bar any post that is an emergency...you know what I mean)." Well that's great to hear! I never imagined you living in some huge city... I can respond any day, im not really doing anything remember? See you

Moderator bump up! Sorry-sorry-sorry, I'm sooo snowed-under. Yours, The White Rabbit

Fab response on Avocado's thread btw! Thanks so much! (You might want to try the aQ Test as well? Touch-Of, I've been suspecting. And quite possibly the poster who responded after you. After all - the pair of you instantly, effort-free "got him", didn't you. ;))))) ....'Like Attracts Like', especially where HF Aspies are concerned.) Ahoo - be with you as soon as I possibly can manage (chews on pocket-watch in frustration). 'Un-der pre-ssure/dan-daddle-an-dan, dan-dan-dan daddle-an-dan..............DIIDLE-EY-DOOOOO...... (*swoon, CRASH*)'. This heat might actually kill me. (Hey - who was that, shouted Hooray?........(basstd)). (;)) This heat might just kill me I'm starting to melt But the Abusers are many And starting to pelt And now I've spilt coffee All over my front Sometimes Life's great But mostly a Cu- crikey, is that the time?! (Just testing. If I can still write ditties, I'm alright. :D)

Just for now (read a teeny bit): "There is something strange going on with her. " YES! ABSOLUTELY! NARCISSISM! As a consistent/recurring pattern of attitudes & behaviour over a reasonable period of time: NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY *DISORDER* (hahahahahahahaha!) (ya 'nana LOL) PS: Nah. I get it. It's just *really* hit you, hasn't it.

BUMPING YOU UP AGAIN. Cleared the newbies (for now), though.

Heya! Diving straight in... Going to have to do it in chunks, though (too many texts and phonecalls - at this time, it's Mobiles Happy Hour over here). "I do have a lot of family. I have my Grandma, who i cherish, and my aunt. And by the way, my aunt, my mom's older sister, definitely knows of her doings as well. And i have serious suspicions that she, as well is cheating on her long term boyfriend. I couldn't be sure, thought. But what the hell? Is it a family thing? Am i going to be like that? And why am i the one finding out everyone's secrets? They need to hide them better i swear, cause i have zero desire to know." Yes, it's a family thing. Clearly. Well, on your mother's side, anyway. You might want to take a read at what I've just posted on "SoConfused12345"'s thread about the Narcissistic Family, even if just to eliminate it from the enquiry or to see that, perhaps, your mother's family was only slightly so but that this is mainly how their selfishness and disloyalty manifests (despite they expect to receive the opposite)? We can TELL she's cheating. It's too obvious. Plus, if you think your dad and you aren't close since that 'stay with me'/tug-of-war incident then - he should grow up as well, plus - if this is what is is - *not* still be thinking he should have been allowed to cry on his kid's shoulder, like it's acceptable or something (wrong way round!), to the point where, now he isn't close to you nor keeping the lines of communication open. That was his WIFE'S job. It's TOO MUCH for the son/daughter, they've got ENOUGH on their developmental plates. Okay, understandable WHY he overstepped the mark at the time: desperate. But if you'd (had any choice and) stayed, you'd only have elastplasted over the crux (marital) problem that he, clearly, has been trying to avoid, i.e. helped him to stay stuck in Victim-Enabler mode. Better for him to meet his 'line in the sand' and 'burst', finally. Plus, why was he even at work at a time like that? (They don't sound very sensible or capable, do they. For adults, I mean.) I would just accept like so many are having to do, that you didn't get a winning, Parental lottery ticket....keep out of it unless INVITED, focus on yourself and your fledgling life, and that way, you can get OUT of their marriage that both, in their own ways, are trying to drag/tempt/lure you into. (Narcs or temporary, victimised-into-Narcs, never just 'come out with' it, straight, never just ask nicely. Reason: their brains can't cope with showing themselves as Vulnerable. So they hint, manipulate...let you find clues or leave them 'lying around'.... whilst trying to keep the elephant in the room UNDER the table (seeing it?)..... '(hoity, pompous voice: 'I'mmm NNNOT prepared to discuss it!' / 'WELL, EFF-OFF AND STOP DROPPING YOUR HANKIE, THEN!'). "Hahaha same! We must have similar weather, Greece and Spain ( if you are in spain) It's around 40 degrees here everyday and we just had a big fire in my city. I was Literally where it started the previous day! And my whole dads side of the family lives in the area so we were really scared. Thankfully noone was hurt though." Yep - Spain. Yeah, sounds like it! Ooh, big fire, that's not funny. Especially as they can advance so alarmingly quickly - not like on the telly/films, meaning, 5 miles away isn't miles-away ENOUGH! Was it windy? "Here - didn't you have a previous thread about this?...and about your sister now knowing and your dad in denial?? Or was that someone else and this thread you could relate to that you're talking about?)" No, that wasn't me. It was the one i related to. It's crazy cause the moment i wrote that to you, i log out and i see the thread of something with the exact same problem..." Oh okay. No, that can happen. You think your problem is only happening to you, but - nope - to thousands, tens of thousands, possibly millions. Re your dad: it's not too late to show your emotional empathy and support. Things like, making him a cup of tea, smiling at him more, just being kind, gentle and just generally making an extra-special effort to take an interest/focus on him...e.g. start to greet him at the door - Hi dad, did you have a nice day?', watch or sit-beside to accompany, a sports programme with him..that sort of thing. Basically, mainly what you'd do if neither of you could hear or talk! Keep it up and he'll know you know, hence showing sympathy and tenderness, and IF he wants to talk about it (now that you're older, more capable), there's his invitation! NOOO. You're DEFINITELY NOT going to be like that. You already aren't. You're so not, you're (correctly) opposite/anti. If you thought it were a future option for you, you wouldn't be complaining about it. Haha, ya 'nana (short for banana, don't know why, but it means a fond 'you daftie'). No, but, seriously - common worry (of non-narcs). (To be continued...)

"No, none of that. I haven't had guy friends since primary school. Why does that matter? " No matter - just exploring you a little as we go. Were you a Tomboy as a kid? Stick with Grandma. What about dad's mother/siblings? (Initially, I thought you were English, too.) "She was telling him, at least in the few texts i read, about my school (it was the period of my uni entrance exams), how nervous i was, what university i was going to get into, my faculty, my grades..." Why would HE give a shite? He hasn't even met you! Or is he fooling your mother that he's more than just a bit-on-the-side, that he comes WITH PROSPECTS?...or her, trying to SHOEHORN him into that position? (She's certainly low on Empathy - ref death of grandad.) Or have they run out of conversation already? It's not exactly foreplay, is it, talking about your kids to that depth. PS: Betrayed spouses virtually always know, WT, they do. Because we don't just talk/disclose with our mouths and nor can we control all of our actions (body lingo, microexpressions, weird pauses, repeating the investigative question of yours that you know full-well they hard first time - all of that and loooads more. Verbal in the total comms system is only 17 piddly %. Even if you're not consciously well-versed in total comms analysis/identification/translation - your inner animal sure is. So you just 'get a feeling'. Which keeps building. Until you explode or look the other way because it's just too much (at that point in time or per se)....and Narcs doing it for power-stripping reasons, always strike when you're already DOWN. "She has actually been texting me every day since that happened, checking up on me. Everytime she messes up she goes back to this, and then she stops after a while. But I've noticed something else weird... She said all her friends are there as well. None of them are from this city... Don't these people have homes? Families? Friends? What the hell is going on over there? Did they join a cult? Are they being held captive? Why does this sound like the begining of a horror movie?" Nah. Typical Narc-Spath. She's lying but forgetting to make the details and earlier statements add up. She's lying to buy time to prepare an excuse/reason/pity ploy. You've probably seen her by now? Anything new to report? "Was that - I've never been like this with someone else, or, I've never seen her like that with someone else. ?" It was the second i meant. But sure, I've never been like that with someone either." So let's get this straight. You hit an age where you're not sure of your 'persuasion' yet and 'suddenly' she's the same, thus using approach angles both fashioned for straight AND for gay/bi flirting? How convenient and coincidental! What were the chances? (I call them the "Me Too!" merchants. Er....NOT. Faked.)

PS: you love UNCOVERING/DISCOVERING things, yes? AND you're very insightful (if not yet fluent in how to articulate it).

I ALSO think F1 is trying to re-ISOLATE you. By having Reserved you, without ANY intention of actually going with you anywhere herself, ...and by having only un-reserved you last-minute - you don't have the opportunity to find a substitute. Which makes her feel safe, so she can relax and have fun. And beep YOUR feelings, YOUR needs! See? See how self-centred she is? She's a spoilt BRAT and manipulator-bully and Machievelli (Dark Triad Alert). Just YOUNG (not practised her act a thousand trillion times already!) and not that polished yet (thank eff). It's this: she wants to forever - at least with you, her dumping ground - get to behave however she wants/fancies on-impulse - and get away with it - but it's basically this: "If she meets new people and compares them to me, I'm screwed". She sees you as her EXCLUSIVE POSESSION. *HER* TOY! She KNOWS you're actually lovely so could get 'stolen away' and treated CONSISTENTLY more kindly. And then you'd dump her FOREVER. I'm telling you - those past school group-friends were in whatever way(s) WARNED OFF. Replay those mental videos again - see what you spot THIS time. Where's F2 got to?

Feel free to reply - I'm finished for now. Night! :)

Just one PS: "Why does this sound like the begining of a horror movie?" Haha, that made me laugh and then keep giggling from there. What - like a female Jeffrey Dahmer in prep mode...all these people, gagged, chained and Gorilla-taped in place on her sofa, to watch endless (probably shite) films with her (her age - THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHEN YOU SAY WHAT SHALL WE DO!), having laced the coke and sarnies with heavy-duty sedatives....? 'Now you're actually All Mine ('Mine!, Mine!, Mine-Mine!....) and can't ever abandon me nor complain as I sit here holding court, uninterrupted, all eyes on me, breathing-in my banked-up Seething-dust, agreeing with me over everything, not being different at all to me, MODELLING yourself on me, and especially whenever (because I can never make up my mind) I get that horrid 'You realise you're shit, and a horrid person, and not even a real adult, don't you?' voice in my head, and, insist I'm Fffffab! ('Mess, moo are phmmaab, mess'). What, like that? Or do you have a better scene in your bonce, Ms Film Director? Go for it! (Haha) You'll like this, then: https://www.tiktok.com/@the_mannii/video/7149995704331685162?lang=en or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G98sdYGAmM4

Hey WT! Watch this - especially (oh boy!) at around 12:33. Their Secrets-Keeper. PS: You alright?

Hey! Im sorry i didn't respond sooner but I didn't get notifications and then i lost my password... But everything is ok! "You might want to try the aQ Test as well? Touch-Of, I've been suspecting. And quite possibly the poster who responded after you. After all - the pair of you instantly, effort-free "got him", didn't you. ;))))) ....'Like Attracts Like', especially where HF Aspies are concerned.)" I did, i got a 24, pretty close to borderline score, as it says. "There is something strange going on with her. " YES! ABSOLUTELY! NARCISSISM!" Haha i meant stranger than usual lol "Plus, why was he even at work at a time like that?" I mentioned the workaholic part, didn't i? He's ALWAYS at work.( Him and his brother own a business) "Re your dad: it's not too late to show your emotional empathy and support. Things like, making him a cup of tea, smiling at him more, just being kind, gentle and just generally making an extra-special effort to take an interest/focus on him...e.g. start to greet him at the door - Hi dad, did you have a nice day?', watch or sit-beside to accompany, a sports programme with him..that sort of thing. Basically, mainly what you'd do if neither of you could hear or talk! Keep it up and he'll know you know, hence showing sympathy and tenderness, and IF he wants to talk about it (now that you're older, more capable), there's his invitation!" Soo about this, i started working as well, at our business, first of all because i was bored out of my mind, at home all day, and second to try and get closer to him. I think it's definitely working. "No, none of that. I haven't had guy friends since primary school. Why does that matter? " No matter - just exploring you a little as we go. Were you a Tomboy as a kid?" No, but i definitely had a tomboyish phase during middle school. "Stick with Grandma. What about dad's mother/siblings?" Dad's side grandma is 94 and barely communicating soo... Dad has 11 siblings, most of them i barely know. ( And definitely do not remember all of their names) "Initially, I thought you were English, too.)" English??? Why hahaha "She was telling him, at least in the few texts i read, about my school (it was the period of my uni entrance exams), how nervous i was, what university i was going to get into, my faculty, my grades..." Why would HE give a shite? He hasn't even met you! Or is he fooling your mother that he's more than just a bit-on-the-side, that he comes WITH PROSPECTS?...or her, trying to SHOEHORN him into that position? (She's certainly low on Empathy - ref death of grandad.)" The issue is we HAVE met. Remember, i said he used to bring us supplies for my moms small business. And then when we went on holiday we stayed at a house he owned and he showed up out of nowhere. Plus, he's married as well. So, im not sure about prospects.

"You've probably seen her by now? Anything new to report?" So i stayed at her place for five days, it wasn't the best time we ever had, because she was working until midnight. We still had fun though, although she did a lot of things that definitely bothered me. She woke up around 1 every day, and i cannot sleep for that long, so i was bored out of my mind. Then she would tell me we'll do this and that tomorrow! And then she would sleep until 1, and be like, oh we don't have enough time... One day, two of her friends passed from her work and asked if we could all go out together. She told them no, because it would be 'too awkward'. She thought i would be happy with that, for some reason. I think she's still holding on to one time when i refused to meet some her friends years ago, because they were... um pretty questionable people. After that she kinda stop introducing me to her other friend groups. "So let's get this straight. You hit an age where you're not sure of your 'persuasion' yet and 'suddenly' she's the same, thus using approach angles both fashioned for straight AND for gay/bi flirting?" No, not really. We have always joked around like that, a lot of times i have initiated, (never with something actually romantic in mind) and long before i communicated that i might be swinging both ways to her. "PS: you love UNCOVERING/DISCOVERING things, yes? AND you're very insightful (if not yet fluent in how to articulate it)." Yes! Absolutely! So that's all goodbye for now!

Bumping you up - you're next (pant-pant!) - STILL no need to apologise for inadvertently giving me time to clear my backlog. :) Aiming to be on tomorrow night latest. 'Luckily' it's too hot to go out - well actually, *outside* lately. August here is just horrible, plus the heat sends everything and everyone doolally. But we're expecting an Indian Summer (Normal Summer weather and temps Sept and Oct, hurrah).

Ach - SO SORRY, WT! This is terrible - I can't catch up fast enough! I promise I haven't forgotten you though. Hope you're okay to keep bearing with me?

"I did, i got a 24, pretty close to borderline score, as it says." Then you are officially Eccentric! :) That's a good spot, though, as it means you can get on with HF Aspies as much as Neurotypicals (double the friend demographic! :).) "Plus, why was he even at work at a time like that?" I mentioned the workaholic part, didn't i? He's ALWAYS at work.( Him and his brother own a business) No, I don't think you did. But that explains a lot, then - depending on which is the chicken and which, the egg: is he a workaholic because his marriage is bad or is his marriage bad as a result of his workaholism. The Scooby Lies in the fact that he and his family aren't at all close! (Poor you - no wonder you've been apt to feel so alone. Mind you, he might have done you a favour and rejected them? Fancy asking him? That'd be a good ice-breaker?) "Re your dad: it's not too late to show your emotional empathy and support. Things like, making him a cup of tea, smiling at him more, just being kind, gentle and just generally making an extra-special effort to take an interest/focus on him...e.g. start to greet him at the door - Hi dad, did you have a nice day?', watch or sit-beside to accompany, a sports programme with him..that sort of thing. Basically, mainly what you'd do if neither of you could hear or talk! Keep it up and he'll know you know, hence showing sympathy and tenderness, and IF he wants to talk about it (now that you're older, more capable), there's his invitation!" Soo about this, i started working as well, at our business, first of all because i was bored out of my mind, at home all day, and second to try and get closer to him. I think it's definitely working." EXCELLENT. And so you should know by nowwhat's what with the extended family, it's your right to know your family history and ancestry, particularly on that interpersonal level. It helps you understand yourself better (hence all those Geneology (Family Tree) TV progs, like "Who Do You Think You Are?"). Plus, you've TRIED signalling wildly to your mother about the elephant in the family room (it affects you - it's your business too - fact), but - Clam City, she is. So next is Dad. Because it's all too common under these sorts of circumstances - I think your parents - (grudgingly-)understandably - have been in statis where you're concerned...Been far too caught-up in their own joint and individual problems to have noticed and been monitoring your progress, i.e. how much older and more mature you are these days. Fair comment? If so, you asking Dad to "dtell you aboudt heez childthoodt" might wake him up a bit - or even a lot....get him doing a double-take. "No, none of that. I haven't had guy friends since primary school. Why does that matter? " No matter - just exploring you a little as we go. Were you a Tomboy as a kid?" No, but i definitely had a tomboyish phase during middle school." (There it is.) Did you enjoy being Tomboy-ish? And what was it about certain aspects that it afforded you the freedom to do? And when did you grow out of it? In fact, DID you grow out of it or get wrenched by moving up to (your equivalent of) Secondary School? "Initially, I thought you were English, too.)" English??? Why hahaha" Because your written (and spoken, I can tell) English is superior to most English people's English since the last 30 or so years. Let's test you, though: what's wrong with/what's missing from this, lately, common US phrase? 'I could care less if you're leaving'. ? (There's no prize but you'll get a textual round of applause haha) ""She ((Mum)) was telling him (('her co-cheater')), at least in the few texts i read, about my school (it was the period of my uni entrance exams), how nervous i was, what university i was going to get into, my faculty, my grades..." "Why would HE give a shite? He hasn't even met you! Or is he fooling your mother that he's more than just a bit-on-the-side, that he comes WITH PROSPECTS?...or her, trying to SHOEHORN him into that position? (She's certainly low on Empathy - ref death of grandad.)" "The issue is we HAVE met. Remember, i said he used to bring us supplies for my moms small business. And then when we went on holiday we stayed at a house he owned and he showed up out of nowhere. Plus, he's married as well. So, im not sure about prospects" Oh yeah - sorry (blame the humidity). So, was he almost trying to force his involvement on you (premature playing Stepdad)? Was that why you effed-off to the beach? /continued...

"You've probably seen her by now? Anything new to report?" So i stayed at her place for five days," FIVE DAYS? That's a Mini-Break, isn't it? (Haha - did you get Room Service?) (PS: I thought Friend 2 was going to join you?...or am I imagining things?) "it wasn't the best time we ever had," OH. No to the Room Service, then. :p " because she was working until midnight." PARDON?????????? WHY HAVE YOU OVER, THEN????? She REALLY IS over-entitled, isn't she, jeeez. Bet she hadn't forewarned you of that fact!? " We still had fun though, although she did a lot of things that definitely bothered me." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Sorry...but you need to re-read that and see why it's set me off! :D Haha! Let's tidy that up a bit: She did a lot of things that REALLY bothered me, but I managed to have fun in spite of that/her. HAHAHAHA! (No need to be diplomatic with me, luv, heehee.) (Cheers for the giggle.) "She woke up around 1 every day," Got a guest...not just for one day and night but beeping five days...and - bad enough that she's working til midnight every single night, but - goes to bed, presumably by 1am? (whereas - what time did you keel over?)...and then (let's not say 'wakes up' because clearly she couldn't!) sleeps until 1pm??? What - nothing to get up for? JEEZ. I'm insulted and I wasn't even there! OR, if in actual fact she woke before then (given that she's not aged 87!) and played on her phone til 1pm - that's even worse. OMG, your friend smells so much. YOU can play with me, but she can't. :p And you can tell her I said that, as well. Jeez. Does she think she's Lady Di (reincarnated) or something? Or - even closer - Marie Antionette? (SORRY...insulting your friend.... Haha - you understand...?) "and i cannot sleep for that long, so i was bored out of my mind." Precisely why I think she was amusing herself in bed for hours, rather than emerging BECAUSE SHE'S GOT GUESTS AND IT'S -sorry - effing rude NOT to! (Your mum and dad weren't chatting about this sort of stuff with you enough, were they. PS: Do they still even socialise together?) PS: I'd have raided the fridge and had a damn good snoop around. I wouldn't dream of it, normally. But she ain't Normally. "Then she would tell me we'll do this and that tomorrow! And then she would sleep until 1, and be like, oh we don't have enough time..." Okay, now I want to slap her in the face with a wet fish... PLEASE tell me she wasn't getting you to do the house chores while she was at work? " One day, two of her friends passed from her work" Allelujlia!! "and asked if we could all go out together. She told them no, because it would be 'too awkward'." WTF?! "She thought i would be happy with that, for some reason." No she didn't. It's called Isolation, remember? She wouldn't want you and they comparing notes because she's very different with different people/groups (google Narcissist - chameleon). "I think she's still holding on to one time when i refused to meet some her friends years ago, because they were... um pretty questionable people. After that she kinda stop introducing me to her other friend groups." 1. That is so tenuous a ONE-OFF incident as to be 'un-still-hold-on-able, so - rot! It's called A Pathetic Excuse. 2. Course they were...and that - your disapproval - was a threat to her by virtue of the fact it might have led to the exposure of the fact that she has many more roles than the Friend one she plays with you (i.e. you working-out how on earth she could bear to be around such types (answer: 'cannot cast the first stone'). Let's tell it how it is: they were "total SKANKS"! Correct? 3. You're her only decent-person friend. (Not that she would want to show you any appreciation or - god forbid - you might realise she needs you FAR-FAR-FAAAR more than you need Skanky-Behaving Her. You're worth Ten of her. You're correct and perfectly rational and reasonable about every single criticism of her. Just one fresh e.g.: you know how to treat a guest. AND HOW NOT. Raised by wolves, was she? She would have you believe (Swat Narx Do) that you need her. That's the only way she can feel the normal-relationship amount of secure on her side. Understand? The saying (originating from the world of dating) is, 'Treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen'. In Narc World, the belief ("cuckoo!") is: S/He who cares least, wins. Yeah, well, friendship - as with lovership - in actual fact - is supposed to be a game where there are TWO winners. She ain't no Team Player - and that's imperative if you want any friendships to last. All you two have in-common is Neglect (emotional isolation and starvation). The weight on her child's mind, broke it. Yours didn't. Thank your Genetic inheritance, i.e. your ancestors). And that's it! That's what her problem is. She's still - what would you say? Ten? Twelve/thirteen at most? Has not been raised to know how to treat other children or now, other adults. Emotionally neglected, Materialistically Spoilt. Terrible combination. You are literally too kind, generous, determined and compassionate, little missus. Well - "too" for HER, anyway. No worries and no stopwatch though... I reckon you're leaving her slowly...almost imperceptibly. ""So let's get this straight. You hit an age where you're not sure of your 'persuasion' yet and 'suddenly' she's the same, thus using approach angles both fashioned for straight AND for gay/bi flirting?" "No, not really. We have always joked around like that, a lot of times i have initiated, (never with something actually romantic in mind) and long before i communicated that i might be swinging both ways to her." Never mind 'a lot of times I have initiated'. Who STARTED it? "PS: you love UNCOVERING/DISCOVERING things, yes? AND you're very insightful (if not yet fluent in how to articulate it)." Yes! Absolutely! So that's all goodbye for now!" Do you suppose it's possible that, in the absence of parental tuition, socially and emotionally, you've decided to keep her, in order to learn by observing how things definitely SHOULDN'T be done? Now there's a brain-stretcher, eh? :)

Hah - I forgot to start with Hello, just dove straight in! Sorry... "Hello!" (waves)

Hello! So, "mentioned the workaholic part, didn't i? He's ALWAYS at work.( Him and his brother own a business) No, I don't think you did. But that explains a lot, then - depending on which is the chicken and which, the egg: is he a workaholic because his marriage is bad or is his marriage bad as a result of his workaholism." I did actually, it's in my post from july 17. Were you a Tomboy as a kid?" No, but i definitely had a tomboyish phase during middle school." (There it is.) "Did you enjoy being Tomboy-ish? And what was it about certain aspects that it afforded you the freedom to do?" Uum i think it was definitely more in my mind-my attitude than my appearance. I still dressed feminine and everything. I was more the type- oh I don't like pink-wearing mostly black-thinking girly things were stupid. ( I'm the exact opposite now) Im not sure i understand the second question? "And when did you grow out of it? In fact, DID you grow out of it or get wrenched by moving up to (your equivalent of) Secondary School?" Haha i think i grew out of it because of bestie. She was the opposite of me at the time- always wore pink, glitter very into super girly things... When we started being best friends, i realised oh you can still be cool and like girly things so i let go of my stupid thought of-girly things are lame. "Initially, I thought you were English, too.)" English??? Why hahaha" Because your written (and spoken, I can tell) English is superior to most English people's English since the last 30 or so years. Let's test you, though: what's wrong with/what's missing from this, lately, common US phrase?" Thanks! I was always very good at English. I think it's supposed to be " i couldn't care less"? If it's meant as an insult.

"PS: I thought Friend 2 was going to join you?...or am I imagining things?) Noo, she wasn't. Around May? Idk i asked her when she was available to go out, she said yes definitely we should, and thenn never responded. Soo, I didn't know what to think of that. A few days ago it was her birthday, so i texted her again and again asked to go out. She said yes, but it's exam season ( not for me though cause i already passed everything) so i have to wait until it's over. If i dont tell her WE ARE GOING THEN AND THERE she will never take the step herself. I feel like she doesn't like me? "it wasn't the best time we ever had," OH. No to the Room Service, then. :p " because she was working until midnight." PARDON?????????? WHY HAVE YOU OVER, THEN????? She REALLY IS over-entitled, isn't she, jeeez. Bet she hadn't forewarned you of that fact!?" I knew she was working, we had planned everything out. She is never not working anymore, so when was i supposed to see her? "Haha! Let's tidy that up a bit: She did a lot of things that REALLY bothered me, but I managed to have fun in spite of that/her." That does sound better hahaha "Got a guest...not just for one day and night but beeping five days...and - bad enough that she's working til midnight every single night, but - goes to bed, presumably by 1am? (whereas - what time did you keel over?)...and then (let's not say 'wakes up' because clearly she couldn't!) sleeps until 1pm???" We went to bed approximately at 3-4 every night. One night we didn't sleep at all lol. "OR, if in actual fact she woke before then (given that she's not aged 87!) and played on her phone til 1pm - that's even worse." No, because i dragged her out of bed myself hahaha Don't worry though cause after the second time that happend i got up by myself around 9, and went to every museum in the city ( my favourite part of visiting any city) "Then she would tell me we'll do this and that tomorrow! And then she would sleep until 1, and be like, oh we don't have enough time..." Okay, now I want to slap her in the face with a wet fish..." Again don't worry i took care of that too hahaha. At some point i just told her I'm going to kill you if we don't actually do this and she listened. "and asked if we could all go out together. She told them no, because it would be 'too awkward'." WTF?! "She thought i would be happy with that, for some reason." No she didn't. It's called Isolation, remember? She wouldn't want you and they comparing notes because she's very different with different people/groups (google Narcissist - chameleon)." This! We have had this conversation before about the friend group of hers that i refused to meet. I don't remember where the conversation came from, but i said something like, i bet you're not yourself when you're with these people and she said absolutely, i don't act like myself when I'm with them. I barely speak the whole time. "Let's tell it how it is: they were "total SKANKS"! Correct?" We are talking about criminal- getting girls pregnant at 16- drugs level of skanks. So, yes. I was literally scared of these people. And we were in MIDDLE SCHOOL. They were all much older that she is. So let's get this straight. You hit an age where you're not sure of your 'persuasion' yet and 'suddenly' she's the same, thus using approach angles both fashioned for straight AND for gay/bi flirting?" "No, not really. We have always joked around like that, a lot of times i have initiated, (never with something actually romantic in mind) and long before i communicated that i might be swinging both ways to her." Never mind 'a lot of times I have initiated'. Who STARTED it? I have no idea. We have always been like this "PLEASE tell me she wasn't getting you to do the house chores while she was at work?" I feel like i got caught hahaha. No, she didn't tell me to do anything i did it by myself hahaha. Not for her though, i love cleaning, especially when it's not my house

Cor blimey - LOADS of subc leaks! I'm going to save this for later tonight when the world is in bed and shuts up LOL, so that I can focus properly. PreS: Last line... Oh, yeah, it's Detention for you, my gal, hahaha!

...But then, it's Detention for me, too, because - you're right - you did tell me Dad was a workaholic. I'll let you off if you let me off? :D

Heya! These are the bits, so far, that flew out and hit me: "Uum i think it was definitely more in my mind-my attitude than my appearance. I still dressed feminine and everything. I was more the type- oh I don't like pink-wearing mostly black-thinking girly things were stupid. ( I'm the exact opposite now) Im not sure i understand the second question? "And when did you grow out of it? In fact, DID you grow out of it or get wrenched by moving up to (your equivalent of) Secondary School?" Haha i think i grew out of it because of bestie. She was the opposite of me at the time- always wore pink, glitter very into super girly things... When we started being best friends, i realised oh you can still be cool and like girly things so i let go of my stupid thought of-girly things are lame." So the conclusion, there (leaving aside that part of you likes the result) is that, rather than grew out of it naturally, you were influenced/encouraged out of it. That and the way she 'played hostess', are the final jigsaw pieces for me where she's concerned. This, regrettably, stunted girl, who IS subtle underneath the seeming, surface cluelessness and emotional chaos-creating, has had too much influence over you for too long (making it insideous), trying to make you more like her (to validate her as well as to be seen by others as modelling yourself on *her* as a way to disguise the fact she's parroting you behind your back), meanwhile via whatever methods - such as, 'concerned' slander behind your back, giving them the idea it was you who didn't like them, etc. (remember, these are standard, well-worn tactics within the Covert Narc Female Friend playbook) ....and, these days, treating you as if you should come when she clicks her fingers, do all the heavy lifting both emotionally and physically, taking advantage over the fact you'd do anything for a friend (whilst consoling yourself with the fact you enjoy cleaning other people's homes more than your own), all the while keeping her other friends away from you and blaming you as she does so (- 'Oh, you wouldn't like them - especially as once, a hundred years back, you said X', are two more, well-known tactics), and ....WHADDA WE KNOW! NOW FRIEND 2, WHO SEEMED KEEN NOT SO LONG AGO, SEEMS (for no reason you can fathom) SUDDENLY NOT TO LIKE YOU (OR WANT TO SOCIALISE WITH YOU) ANY MORE. Funny, that. FUNNY, THAT! Bit too coincidental for my liking, including the timing. Unless it's F1 she's wanting to avoid, which automatically means cutting you out too? Or is F1 reckoning she still sees and speaks to her? (Can you ring F2 and ask why she's been so quiet and whether everything is okay between she and you?) But, it all fits with F1 wanting to own you - because you're a lovely person. Not that she appreciates goodness and grows closer to *you* for it - she just wants how your qualities and goodness benefit her....('the world revolves around them' - all types). So... If you want to keep this half fiend-half friend, but want to be free to make new friends by being more appealing to others, then, you're going to have to start implementing measures (not difficult ones). Basically, to keep the rest of your life - including any new friends you make, away from her..... Compartmentalize her, both psychologically and geographically. And take ZERO she says, personally, by reminding yourself she's only little, trapped in an adult's body,... and say things like, 'Oooh, reeeally?...clever yoooou', to keep her ego topped-up and plateau'd, just enough that she won't get 'fat' (ref. Feeding The Monster). Validating, but not pandering. Speaking of which: you may enjoy cleaning other people's houses, but it's not a good idea in this case where the recipient is neither normal nor takes it like one (they see it as you attempting to gain their approval/wanting something, because that's their reason for doing nice things...mainly in the beginning or whenever they sense you're losing patience/interest). Again, that would count as over-feeding the monster. So you're going to have to turn that dial down gradually (and, if she does notice and remark, make an excuse like, you've got Tennis Elbow) (takes a good 6 months to heal, sometimes). Basically, any opportune excuse to cease going above and beyond normal friendship duties, as well as cease surpassing what you get in return, weight-for-weight (or bend for bend).... Even when it comes to texting. If she types one line - YOU type one line. (Take a look at your WhatsApp thread with her to see if there's noticeably more Green than White - or, if not, compare weight of CONTENT, and report back.) From what I've seen, including between all the lines - she has been not just cramping, but stifling your style, for years and years! Keeping you basically friendless, aside from her, so that you'll always be most dependent on her, thus available to her. In fact, for all you know, one element might be that other, healthier people, unused to being that pleased and needs pre-empted find your efforts too much for the fact they know they have neither the time nor energy to adequately reciprocate so as not to leave you constantly disappointed, not understanding that you're unused to equal reciprocation so aren't expecting it. Don't know, but it happens after years and years of grooming/priming. Now that you know what she's about, and why and how, however - if you do said compartmentalising you should naturally get your allure back. In other words, remember that where interacting and spending time with her is concerned, you're like Alice, who's gone down the rabbit-hole into 'Wonderland'. What happens (and how things are done) in Wonderland, STAY in Wonderland. (PS: I take it that, personal style-wise, you've managed to combine femininity and masculinity, and found that comfortable-for-you balance?) But...'Doesn't say much', my arse. She says plenty and it all comes from what YOU say and reckon! They're known to plagiarise your quirks, sayings, opinions, jokes - whole personality. That's why she wants you to believe she says virtually nothing - to put you off the scent. See it? Watch out for these, you'd think, superfluous add-ons in future. It's like this: 'I *couldn't* call or text you back because the party ((th one you're supposed to be at, had they not oops-forgotten to collect you as offered)) was too heaving and noisy, plus I was out of charge.' I'm sure you can work out how that's a giveaway of a lie? (But even if you can - they DON'T CARE. Or pretend they don't so that you'll have to try harder than ever to get into their good books and this time STAY there!...which isn't ever going to happen with a Covert.) You've put up with a lot of bad and inadequate behaviour from her. And it's been indoctrinated, gossamer-thin layer-by-layer . So in order to improve matters, you're going to have to avoid giving her sick ego a jolting insult by suddenly re-introducing all the boundaries that've been missing, instead, gossamer-layering in-reverse...almost imperceptibly, meaning, you recover Yourself and train her in-one (might take take a good 2-5 years...depends)...,training her to make YOU an exception as well, meaning, that regardless of how she gets away with treating others, with you she does NOT (and remember - she needs you far more than you do, her - hence her constantly maintained efforts to fake signalling that indicates the opposite). See if it starts to improve matters. But first, check these out: ________________________________________________________________ https://narcbooks.gumroad.com/l/cikwse Book (bible!) by Shadhida Arabi: "Becoming the Narcissist's Nightmare: How to Devalue and Discard the Narcissist While Supplying Yourself: ((My asterisks, and comments in double-brackets. Also, ignore the Devalue and (into) Discard parts - I'm suggesting that you continue disconnecting emotionally so that you can basically- not get a leash on her (because as 'rescue pets' they're too high maintenance lol), but, to at least build yourself a protective chainmail suit, one that's perfectly comfortable and which you don only whenever you see her (compartmentalising). Likewise, ignore the fact it's in the romantic context because the Cycle of Abuse and all that it behaviourally encompasses isn't that different from one relationship type to another (it's all about having power and control over, from (seemingly) petty to dangerous, save for the details connected with whichever role. Best read 'partners' to mean, the target-victim.)) "Although clinical research has been conducted on narcissism as a disorder, less is known about its effects on victims who are in toxic relationships with partners with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Individuals with this disorder engage in chronic devaluation and manipulation of their partners, a psychological and emotional phenomenon known as "narcissistic abuse." Unfortunately, the full extent of what narcissistic abuse entails is not taught in any psychology class or diagnostic manual ((- 'why the hell not?', indeed!)). Since pathological narcissists are unlikely to seek treatment for their disorder, it is difficult to pinpoint what exactly makes a narcissistic abuser tick and the manipulative tactics they use, which are likely to differ from those of other types of abusers as they are more covert and underhanded. What is even more baffling is the addiction we form with our narcissistic abusers, created by biochemical bonds and trauma bonds ((google "Narcissist - Trauma Bonding", and, "- Intermittent Reinforcement")) that are also unlike any other relationship we experience. In this book, survivors will learn: •The red flags of narcissistic behavior and covert manipulation tactics, including subtle signs many survivors don't catch in the early stages of dating a narcissist. •***The motives behind narcissistic abuse and techniques to resist a narcissist's manipulation.*** •Why abuse survivors usually stay with a narcissist long after incidents of abuse occur. •***How our own brain chemistry locks us into an addiction with a narcissistic or toxic partner, creating cravings for the constant chaos of the abuse cycle.*** •***Traditional and alternative methods to begin to detach and heal from the addiction to the narcissist, including eleven important steps all survivors must take on the road to healing.*** •Methods to rewrite the narratives that abusers have written for us so we can begin to reconnect with our authentic selves and purpose. •How to rebuild an even more victorious and empowering life after abuse. Narcissistic partners employ numerous stealthy tactics to devalue and manipulate their victims behind closed doors. These partners lack empathy and demonstrate an incredible sense of entitlement and sense of superiority which drives their exploitative behavior in interpersonal relationships. Their tactics can include verbal abuse and emotional invalidation, stonewalling, projection, taking control of every aspect of the victim’s life, gaslighting and triangulation. Due to the narcissistic partner’s “false self,” the charismatic mask he or she projects to society, the victim often feels isolated in this type of abuse and is unlikely to have his or her experiences validated by friends, family and society. Using the latest scientific research as well as thousands of survivor accounts, this book will explore how the emotional manipulation tactics of narcissistic and antisocial partners affect those around them, particularly with regards to its cumulative socioemotional and psychological effects on the victim. It will also address questions such as: What successful techniques, tools and healing modalities (both traditional and alternative) are available to survivors who have been ridiculed, manipulated, verbally abused and subject to psychological warfare? What can survivors do to better engage in self-love and self-care? ((Own Kitchen First before helping others with theirs - or suggest a kitchen cleaning swap!)) How can they forge the path to healthier relationships, especially if they've been a victim of narcissistic abuse by multiple people or raised by a narcissist? Most importantly, how can they use their experiences of narcissistic abuse to empower themselves towards personal development? What can their interactions with a narcissistic abuser teach them about themselves, their relationship patterns and the wounds that still need to be healed in order to move forward into the happy relationships and victorious lives they do deserve?" _________________________________________________________ And also written by Shadhida: "How Narcissists Steal Your Personality" https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2023/10/narcissists-steal-your-personality-according-to-expert/ Extract: "In the beginning, the narcissist traditionally mirrors you in malignant ways to love bomb you into a relationship, friendship or business partnership; they pretend to be your soulmate, claiming to share the same hobbies, interests, goals, ((family background and social status)) and characteristics as you to get you to trust them. Yet the imitation doesn’t end there nor is malignant mirroring limited to romantic relationships or love bombing. It can escalate into stalker-like, pathological behavior across different contexts. This type of “mirroring” is vastly different from interactions where we naturally mirror others due to empathy, attraction, or trying to establish a social connection – it includes a driving force of malicious envy, resentment, and ***trying to sabotage others*** or even take over their lives. Note that the “identity theft” we talk about in this article refers specifically to the mirroring behaviors and motivations of narcissistic and psychopathic individuals and does not refer to any other conditions. It should only be read in the context of emotional abuse and malicious intent. Why Malignant Identity Theft Isn’t a Compliment Thousands of survivors of narcissists have disclosed to me over the years that they feel deeply violated by the psychological identity theft they’ve experienced by narcissistic and psychopathic individuals. As survivors tell me, it can feel like getting devoured by the manipulative individual – a person who seems to follow your every move, mimicking and mirroring whatever they see to make themselves appear more interesting and palatable to other people around them while wearing your personality. We’ve all heard the common saying that “imitation” is the highest form of flattery. Yet this is a denial, invalidation and dismissal of the exploitative and abusive nature of identity theft. This is like telling the victim of a robbery, “You should be flattered they stole some of your hard-earned savings from you! They want what you have and now can pretend it is their own while benefiting from it! Now they’re off telling everyone that they worked hard for money they stole. Isn’t that a compliment?” Let’s be clear: It is not flattering to have someone take on your personality, steal your words, labor, work, life stories, goals, dreams or sense of style to the extent narcissistic and psychopathic individuals do, especially when they are not giving you due credit or profiting off something they did not create. Through psychological identity theft and erosion, manipulators and pathological con artists can try to siphon the same attention from people they would not otherwise get by “becoming” you. They try to mimic talents and skills they do not possess, embody the energy that makes you unique and special, pursue the hobbies and interests that they have no genuine interest in and reap the benefits of a life they did not live and the labor or creativity they did not undertake. This is what makes identity theft such a disorienting and violating experience for so many. Below, you will find examples of what this identity theft can look like across various contexts. These examples highlight common scenarios based on thousands of survivor accounts. Examples: Narcissistic Identity Theft – What Does It Look Like? Jennifer was disturbed to find out that her ex, Steven, had been going around repeating a traumatic life story from her childhood and using it as his own to garner sympathy from potential dating partners and friends. When she spoke to his friends and family, they told her that not only had he been repeating this life story, he seemed to have taken on Jennifer’s identity. Steven was suddenly pretending to be passionate about animal rights activism and jiu-jitsu, both passions Jennifer had that she had told Steven about during their relationship. Yet Steven never seemed all that interested in these passions until he could pass them off as his own and pretend to be more fascinating, athletic, and compassionate to people he wanted to impress. He had even begun regurgitating the same jokes Jennifer had told him. Jennifer had also began going to school to become a dentist, a dream she had also talked to Steven about many times and suddenly Steven was pretending he was applying to medical school, telling his family about his newfound passion for one particular field – dentistry. Melissa began noticing that one of her co-workers, Brenda, would constantly bring up ideas she had disclosed to her during one-on-one conversations at staff meetings, taking credit for these ideas in front of others. Brenda had also adopted the way Melissa spoke, going so far as to frequently use the same gestures, tone, and word-for-word phrases as her. She began dressing like Melissa* and even began expressing interest in topics she had never had any prior interest nor expertise in that she knew Melissa was genuinely passionate about. Melissa was thoroughly creeped out by this behavior, especially when Brenda plagiarized a copy of her proposal before another staff meeting and tried to pass it off as her own.... " ((*Either they dress like you (without invitation or encouragement) or, the opposite - get you to dress like them, as well as adopt their musical tastes, etc. - as I say, for validation of their style (that usually they nicked off someone else).)) "What To Do About Psychological Identity Theft Identity theft can enact a kind of psychological violence on the victim that enablers of toxic people may not validate or understand. Survivors of narcissists have expressed to me that they feel abused and violated by this type of malignant mimicry, and they often have to take time and space to recover from this type of psychological violence and reclaim their identity and mental health after such an experience. If you’ve been the victim of psychological identity theft and erosion, it’s important to seek support from a trained professional who is well-versed in narcissistic manipulation tactics and and empathic to your needs. You must reconnect to what makes you unique and special, and take the steps to reclaim ownership over what is rightfully yours. You are the one who deserves to reap the benefits of your life, skills, and personality – not a distorted copy. Some enablers in society may gaslight you about this phenomenon, but it is important to resist this gaslighting. Psychological identity theft isn’t normal nor should it be encouraged. It is a blatant violation of privacy and of one’s basic rights. We should not be teaching people to imitate others or act like it is a compliment. Adopting the same hobbies, passions and interests in an attempt to seem fascinating is an insult to the person who is genuinely interested in them and has expert knowledge in these areas. Drawing inspiration and giving due credit to sources is one thing, plagiarizing is another. Passing off the life stories of others as your own is downright exploitative and violating. Sharing mutual dreams organically is different from suddenly pursuing a dream you never had just to get “bragging” rights and one-up someone you’re envious of." ((continues)) Note those last words: ENVIOUS OF. Not, "not good enough" - ENVIABLE. You wouldn't catch HER cleaning YOUR kitchen! SHE HASN'T GOT IT IN HER. The volumes that act speaks - including why you find it more enjoyable than doing your own: someone more like you (and healthy) would think they'd died and gone to heaven to have a friend like you! You're the type would phone to check on them when they're ill and take a trip to the pharmacy for them. Start keeping your place clean - it has a profound, subliminal effect on us. Don't waste it on those that don't deserve it. It's Radiators you need, not Drains from now on. ___________________________________________________ Lastly, but not leastly: I realise that yours is so Covert that nothing is discussed above-table and is expressed via her actings-out, but you might get to the point of training where this comes in handy: https://matthewharrislaw.com/how-to-negotiate-with-a-narcissist/ (Extract) How to act during negotiations with a Narcissist. Negotiating with a narcissist can be a difficult task as they tend to be highly self-centered and may not be willing to consider other perspectives. Your goal is to keep the negotiation moving without setting them off. If you set them off, then the negotiation is over. Here are some strategies that can help keep a narcissist in the negotiation: Stay calm and composed: Narcissists may attempt to provoke an emotional reaction, so it’s important to stay calm and composed during the debate. Avoid getting defensive or argumentative, and try to maintain a neutral tone. Come prepared: Research and prepare your points in advance. Having a clear understanding of the topic and the relevant facts and evidence will give you the confidence to counter their emotional arguments effectively. Be specific and use evidence: Narcissists tend to rely on generalities and broad claims rather than specific evidence or facts to improve their negotiating position. Use concrete examples and data to support your points, and challenge any claims they make that lack evidence. Avoid personal attacks: Narcissists may take any personal attacks as a threat to their self-esteem and react strongly. Avoid making any personal attacks or insulting them, instead focus on the topic at hand. Instead of accusing them, use “I” statements to express your needs and concerns. Avoid playing into their need for attention: Narcissists have a strong need for attention, and may attempt to dominate the conversation. Try to steer the conversation back on track and maintain control of the debate by addressing the key points and evidence. Expect them to avoid accountability: Narcissists tend to have a distorted sense of reality and may have difficulty taking responsibility for their mistakes or errors. Don’t expect them to admit when they are wrong and don’t engage in argument that pursue that as an outcome. Be willing to walk away: If the negotiation is not going well, be willing to walk away and be prepared to take your case to trial. It’s important to remember that your negotiation should be a discussion and an attempt to reach a mutual agreement, not an opportunity to show off or to prove oneself right. Narcissists tend to see the negotiation as a stage to show off rather than an effort to resolve the conflict. Keep in mind that their ultimate goal is not to find the truth, but to win. Using a Narcissist’s own flaws to beat them..." ((continues)) ___________________________________________________ "I think it's supposed to be " i couldn't care less"? If it's meant as an insult." ROUND OF APPLAUSE! It IS an insult - there's no positive version. The Americans adopted it a few years back, but somehow ollocked-up the pivotal word, 'couldn't', since which, the misquote's been spreading, much to the chagrin of the English (as ever when it comes to English Grammar, lol). (And the moral of that story is - don't bandy around phrases you don't understand, y'all, :p LOL). So that makes you officially Bilingual, then, as means you could eventually get a job that allows you to travel? Anyhoo - will finish up tomorrow as I've just noticed the time, yee-ikes! For now: THLUP! Gold Star on your weighty forehead for having had the confidence to put your foot down, with the 'I'll kill you' comment! HAHA! I wasn't expecting that - that was very cool and very sassy! But - see? Didn't hurt, did it? :) She could tell she'd pushed you too far (NSpaths always do) so rolled over. (...at the time, anyway...she might roll back but we'll deal with that, hopefully BEFORE it comes.) And what does that mean?...what was the difference there? Answer: you freely expressing yourself with no thoughts of her approval or otherwise to constrain you and escape out with your vibes. And that means your confidence has grown whilst your reliance on her has dwindled...an attitude which carries in your voice, body language,...everything. Continue being brave enough to assert yourself overtly like that whenever even she wouldn't dare deny you were justified (- she wanted to see how far she could push you, you see...swat they do). Basically, it's her ego you have to befriend and get a leash on. While she's looking the other way, preferably.

Hey! I haven't read what you posted yet but something happened and i have to talk about it. Let me set the scene first: I was in a friend group since middle school that broke apart when we started uni. It consisted of me, bestie, lets say M. And G. Sometimes we would "merge"( i couldn't think of another word i hope it makes sense) with another friend group that consisted of my previous bestie who dumped me, F1( the one we talk about) and some other girls. The second friend group didn't break off like we did. All these are the people i mentioned never talked to me again after high school. So, a few days ago i learn that G who is studying abroad came back home and went out with all the girls.(except bestie cause she's not here and M.) Like what the actual fuck? First of all i had no idea these people still talk to each other. Probably cause noone talks to me? They definitely have a group chat to schedule something like that. Noone though to include me? F1 didn't think to tell me? Noone though to invite me? Especially F1. She knew they had a reunion thing and didn't tell me anything. Or at least tell them, like what about inviting (me)? That is what i would do. This is why i feel so bad. I'm always excluded from things, always forgotten.

Sorry i just noticed you refer to my best friend as F1 and the other friend as F2. I called them bestie and F1 hope that didn't confuse you

Well, if you don't mind continuing that mistake, since it works okay? Plus, she ain't your bestie - not lately, and for too long (hence the need for subliminal training (which I just know you, especially, are going to really enjoy)). So - is keeping F1 and F2 okay? "Hey!" Straw! (Haha - your turn again!) "I haven't read what you posted yet" Hhhhhhhhhh!...howww verray daare hyou! ;) "but something happened and i have to talk about it." Awww, go on, then - as it's you. :) "Let me set the scene first:" Okay. Let me just make a coffee, roll a ciggie, and plump my cushions... "I was in a friend group since middle school that broke apart when we started uni. It consisted of me, bestie, lets say M. And G. Sometimes we would "merge"( i couldn't think of another word i hope it makes sense) with another friend group..." (Yep - perfect sense - merge is bang-on (A Star!).) "...(with another friend group) that consisted of my previous bestie who dumped me" For what reason, again (now that this is a pertinent puzzle piece)?...to save me searching up there? (PS: just realised we've been talking for 8 whole months already. I knowww!...time really does fly, eh?) "...(previous who dumped me), F1( the one we talk about) and some other girls. ..." (And vent about haha) So - to sum up the who's who: Group 1: - You, Bestie (at the time), - M, - G. Group 2: Previous/Ex Bestie, F1, and some other girls. "...The second friend group didn't break off like we did. All these are the people i mentioned never talked to me again after high school." So Group 1 broke up, save for you and F1. Group 2 stayed in contact with each other, but not with you and F1. Is that correct? "So, a few days ago i learn that G who is studying abroad came back home and went out with all the girls.(except bestie cause she's not here and M.)" So there was a reunion, basically, that excluded F1, M, and yourself. Correct? "Like what the actual fuck?" Hold your horses. LEARNED THROUGH WHOM? Who told you and when (and how)? And how hurtful of them, whomever it was-gosh-i-just-can't-guess.. "First of all i had no idea these people still talk to each other. Probably cause noone talks to me?" Obvs. "They definitely have a group chat to schedule something like that. Noone though(t) to include me? F1 didn't think to tell me?" There it is! F1 didn't think to tell you (she did, and decided NO...I've had this one done to me, too...that 18yr old friendship I told you about, the one that wanted to BE me, for which, she had to exclusively possess me (*fail*). "Noone though to invite me? Especially F1. She knew they had a reunion thing and didn't tell me anything. Or at least tell them, like what about inviting (me)?" This is a very old chestnut. What happened was - THEY TOLD HER TO TELL YOU. And, of course, she didn't. If SHE wasn't going - no WAY was she going to let you and they have hours to talk about old times ...whereupon the bloody truth about F1's manipulations, slanderings and lies would have come out. This is a CLASSIC! "That is what i would do." Yyyyup! "This is why i feel so bad. I'm always excluded from things, always forgotten." BECAUSE OF HER. GET IT NOW? BECAUSE OF HER. F SODDING 1. Do me and yourself a favour: try to find out the phone number of M and G or any of the other girls so that (and tape the conversation) you can say this - verbatim: That you're so sorry you weren't at her homecoming reuinion - you would have LOVED to and are really gutted - but F1 failed completely and utterly to inform you...., you don't understand why on earth she didn't, but you'll be speaking to her upon her return from (wherever) to get to the bottom of it. This will be a win/win situation. If it wasn't F1's fault, they'll feel bad because they'll realise you "WERE, AC-TUALLY!" into them, and will make the effort the very next time. And if it was F1's fault (I'll bet you a Hundred Euros it was!) - YOU'VE GOT HER and can confront her as firmly and resolutely AS YOU LIKE! You have to believe me - I deal and mix with soooooo many people: it is NOT YOU. YOU are not unlikeable. Far from it! You are *enviable*. You're a fantastic friend! If I were your age and lived in Greece, I'd be dragging you out for a drink every weekend! IT IS NOT YOU. IT WAS NEVER YOU that was your problem. It was always HER. She believes, thinks, emotes, acts, BREATHES *exactly* like my old friend (the child of the family friends, the one who opened my Xmas pressies ET-CETERA.) Okay? AND KEEP REMEMBERING... you clearly have more waking-up to do. But you're getting there and that's the main thing. Also, as soon as I ditched my "F1", finally, for-good - I experienced a period of about 3 months but then SUDDENLY, all these mutual friends were phoning - clearly to get verification that, now, it was *safe for them* to be my friend again. Others hadn't realised/seen through her and/or had (sort-of) believed the slandering behind my back. But they soon knew the truth. Talk about shooting HERSELF in the foot, merely through me (and my childishly sentimental chains), in very slow-motion. (What (slowly) goes around, (slowly) COMES around...and is very slow to leave, too.) This damaged, nasty 'little child' even tried to steal my pigging mobile hairdresser! Luckily hairdresser rang to confront/ask if it was true. That was the pivotal moment for me. ('Stealing a friend' is a very childish concept and NOT one you expect to have to use, decades after bleedin' SCHOOL. But that's where these Narcs in "friendship" roles, still live and operate by.) F1 and my past bf are sodding TWINS. Anyhoo...be brave and do the getting in contact thing. After all, you've nothing whatsoever to actually lose, and everything to gain. So either nothing changes or changes for the almighty better.

PS: Ring F2 as well - swear her to secrecy and TELL her you have giant suspicions about what F1 has just done (ensured your exclusion like the typical Spider who controls the web (google something like, Narcissist - controlling communications - spider in the web)) 'and so now, obviously, you're worried that she might have said something to her as well, hence you've not heard from her for so long'. Try to text less and phone more. It guards against this sort of shite. Texts instead of voice-to-voice is long grass to snakes who are trying to machinate, undetected. MOW THE LAWN.

I'm here, remember? And if things hot up for you, I'll take my responsibility and up my ante on here to suit and to compensate, keep you bumped-up and check on you nightly until such time as you're 'de-slimed' and start attracting people LIKE AN ATTRACTIVE PERSON AND PERSONALITY LIKE YOURSELF, AC-TUALLY!, SHOULD AND NORMALLY WOULD. That is my in-writing pledge (and pleasure). But - if you ring F2 first in order to get back that safetynet of still having the one close friend in RL - a call that should bring the pair of you closer, to-boot, regardless of whether and what comes to light - you'll cease to feel trapped, and that'll mean two back-ups - she in RL and I on here. Win, win, win. F1 has engineered it so that you feel trapped. No Other Options other than her. It's true, isn't it. (What a waste!)

"...(with another friend group) that consisted of my previous bestie who dumped me" For what reason, again (now that this is a pertinent puzzle piece)?...to save me searching up there? We were best friends throughout primary school, we got into middle school, she met other people that didn't like me ( the "cool" "popular" kids) and stopped talking to me. "...(previous who dumped me), F1( the one we talk about) and some other girls. ..." (And vent about haha)" You got confused 😭 Every time i mentioned F1 i meant F2 ( the one I've went out with a couple of times and didn't respond to me lately.) I referred to F1 as bestie. I will switch them up. So, Friend group 1: Me F1 M. G. Friend group 2: Previous bestie who dumped me F2 Some other girls

"...The second friend group didn't break off like we did. All these are the people i mentioned never talked to me again after high school." So Group 1 broke up, save for you and F1. Group 2 stayed in contact with each other, but not with you and F1." As far as i knew they didn't have contact with M. or G. either. "So there was a reunion, basically, that excluded F1, M, and yourself. Correct?" Yes! "They definitely have a group chat to schedule something like that. Noone though(t) to include me? F1 didn't think to tell me?" There it is! F1 didn't think to tell you (she did, and decided NO...I've had this one done to me, too...that 18yr old friendship I told you about, the one that wanted to BE me, for which, she had to exclusively possess me (*fail*)." Again F1 has nothing to do with this! She had no idea. Its F2 I'm talking about! I'm complaining about F2 the one that I'm supposed to still have a somewhat relationship with and she didn't tell me anything or invited me.

F1 isn't in town- not relevant in this situation. Noone told her either.( Although if she was in town she would 100% be invited) We found out from a story.

In a few days i will try to go out with F2 and ask about the whole story. I'm here, remember? And if things hot up for you, I'll take my responsibility and up my ante on here to suit and to compensate, keep you bumped-up and check on you nightly until such time as you're 'de-slimed' and start attracting people LIKE AN ATTRACTIVE PERSON AND PERSONALITY LIKE YOURSELF, AC-TUALLY!, SHOULD AND NORMALLY WOULD. That is my in-writing pledge (and pleasure). It's noted!

I'll answer to your previous post now. "Bit too coincidental for my liking, including the timing. Unless it's F1 she's wanting to avoid, which automatically means cutting you out too? Or is F1 reckoning she still sees and speaks to her? (Can you ring F2 and ask why she's been so quiet and whether everything is okay between she and you?)" Nah her and F1 are still talking normally. "PS: I take it that, personal style-wise, you've managed to combine femininity and masculinity, and found that comfortable-for-you balance?)" Yes exactly. Sometimes i dress masculine, sometimes like a pretty princess. All depending on the way i feel. "So that makes you officially Bilingual, then, as means you could eventually get a job that allows you to travel?" I'm learning Spanish too, I'll hopefully have my certificate by next year. I was actually planning to study Spanish literature for a period but i reckoned i wouldn't cut it cause my level wasn't high plus i didn't have enough time for the extra lessons so i dropped Spanish overall and started over this year. "For now: THLUP! Gold Star on your weighty forehead for having had the confidence to put your foot down, with the 'I'll kill you' comment! HAHA! I wasn't expecting that - that was very cool and very sassy! But - see? Didn't hurt, did it? :) She could tell she'd pushed you too far (NSpaths always do) so rolled over. (...at the time, anyway...she might roll back but we'll deal with that, hopefully BEFORE it comes.)" With your encouragement, i decided enough shit is enough and I'm not letting anything pass anymore. F2 is going to hear it too about the reunion thing when we meet. Now, another thing: when i was over, F1 said something that stuck with me. She said i know i have extremely high confidence but extremely low self esteem. What in your professional opinion does this tell us? Kisses for now

Just a quick heads-up for future reference: For the sake of anonymity and id protection, especially as I'm long-term-'resident' on here, nobody, save for the owner, is allowed to know my RL profession...nor my age, gender, anything, really - sorry. What I *can* say, is that from what I've learned and lifelong experienced, the seeming high confidence is in fact arrogance and/or an act (the confidence isn't earnt/accrued, thus isn't the real deal, hence why they constantly need to manipulate flattery out of you and to score point off of you...for temporarily-acting ego-boosts to compensate). Fake/baseless confidence, with genuinely low self-esteem, spells Covert-Vulnerable. (I've noticed that all types - when in a 'good' mood, obviusly - are very loath to try something they've never attempted before in-case they're seen to fail...and that flies in the face of Confidence, which is, our certainty in our ability to achieve goals. Plus self-esteem and confidence are strongly connected and mutually reinforcing so - see how her statement/confession doesn't even add up?) Not all malignant Coverts (ego-crazy, manipulative) are or play Vulnerable (a technique to disarm your rightful anger or indignation) - most are too snooty and 'superior' to ever want to let you see any vulnerabilities, would rather stick needles in their eyes than lower themselves in front of you. In fact, usually, if that somehow occurs, you find yourself swiftly fired under some excuse or other blown out of all proportion to make you feel it's all your own fault, not their Discard. But as I've said before - Narcissistic-Sociopaths (ego- AND power-crazy, manipulative and sadistic - ), are either Covert, Covert-Vulnerable, and, unbeknownst to the victim at the time, simultaneously Overt (to distract you from what they're up to behind your back)....Allverts, I call them. Just whatever style works best for them, either ongoingly or in any given moment. However, if a Covert or NSpath in covert mode says she knows she has extremely high confidence but extremely low self-esteem - you have no way to tell whether it's true or just a few bars on her 'Vulnerable' violin. Maybe she was fishing for a compliment or for you to get stuck in with investigating that alleged side of her? Or maybe she's been told that by someone who's been reading up on the condition and that was her sneaky way to hear whether YOU knew what it tends to spell or not? Or knows about what it means, can tell you know more, meaning, that was a typical Sociopathic "Tell"? Without having been there, it's hard to say what she was after, so - what do you think? ___________________________________________________________ "Yes exactly. Sometimes i dress masculine, sometimes like a pretty princess. All depending on the way i feel." Excellent! Best of both worlds. So do you experience, a week or two in each month where you feel more tomboyish and then the rest of the month, neutral/neither way inclined, and then switching for a week or so as in the mood to be more "girlie"? Or is it more mixed, less phasic than that? ""So that makes you officially Bilingual, then, as means you could eventually get a job that allows you to travel?" I'm learning Spanish too, I'll hopefully have my certificate by next year. I was actually planning to study Spanish literature for a period but i reckoned i wouldn't cut it cause my level wasn't high plus i didn't have enough time for the extra lessons so i dropped Spanish overall and started over this year." Ooh - Espanol! Que quieres saber - algos? Y porque Espanol? Te gustas?...Quieres lo visitar en futura? ""For now: THLUP! Gold Star on your weighty forehead for having had the confidence to put your foot down, with the 'I'll kill you' comment! HAHA! I wasn't expecting that - that was very cool and very sassy! But - see? Didn't hurt, did it? :) She could tell she'd pushed you too far (NSpaths always do) so rolled over. (...at the time, anyway...she might roll back but we'll deal with that, hopefully BEFORE it comes.)" With your encouragement, i decided enough shit is enough and I'm not letting anything pass anymore. F2 is going to hear it too about the reunion thing when we meet." That is so heartening to hear...YUSSSS!, in other words. And yes - so's you know: that's all targets like yourself need to know in order to dump: TO FEEL SAFE...have various safetynets...safe enough to make a move and sod the consequences: no longer fearful, less to lose. (That's why Refuges are such a godsend: always somewhere else to go.) So that last sentance - does that mean you have or are intending to arrange a meet-up with the pair of them? Or you mean you're going to confront them separately? If the latter, I'd suggest you confront F2 BEFORE you confront F1, since F2 went (so's to be seen to follow the surface facts. Or alleged facts...because I'm not sure yet whether I believe F1, not when we have that stupid excuse up there for why you and her other friends couldn't mix because 'once upon a time you said X'). So, first working with your dad and making steady interpersonal progress (including his WANTING you to work with him - huge, positive clue!), and now me playing safetynet as someone always to vent and chat to until such time as you can fly solo again, has obviously done the trick. PHUH-EWWWWW! Because - TBH, I'm incredulous. Sat here for 8 months with an obviously very intelligent, interesting, non middle-of-the-road type, with a really sweet heart, who's (I think) positively *surrounded* by N-bstds, repeatedly asking - Is it me? Am I not attractive?... It's ridiculous. Understandable. Not your fault (definitely theirs). But still ridiculous. In fact, it's criminal. Not that it's unusual for a Primary Supply victim to realise you've been mixing mainly with Narcs (and the rest, victims in-denial), without ever having realised, due simply, in your case, to the fact that they foie-gras you with attention and making you feel valued and special at first but then, intermittently from there when they want something, dialling it down imperceptibly, fraction-by-fraction, whittling the once bountiful buffet down to damn crumbs, even stale ones. So if you'd been feeling chronically emotionally-neglected by the parents, or even just your Mum (not as strong a connection as should be), then, of COURSE you're going to do the natural Healthy-Human thing and seek substitutes and understudies that you then keep (because the SNs can keep it up until they can tell/smell you feel secure with them). I recommend substitutes or supplements highly, anyway (if it's 2-way or somehow symbiotic, and consensual). But now - obviously, as I say, with things looking up with Dad and now me/my pledge - you're not starving hungry any more, nor scared of being left starving again, and don't have to take this sh*t (CRUMBS, reinforced intermiittently with the odd MORSEL). They (F1) even invite you over yet starve or under-feed you: sleeping in too late - "tomorrow-tomorrow" like you're not worth treating as a special occasion. Who the eff treats their not just guest but best friend, during what is a rare stay, like THAT? Nah. It's because you ARE worth it. It, being a level they cannot produce or supply. Meaning, they're not. And they know it. Just by you being your natural, giving, supportive, helpful - FRIEND-LIKE - self. The contrast is chasmic and they can't handle it unless they pull you down to their level (including lowering your expectations - google "Narc - managing down your expectations") and keep you down...asking for little and still supplying a lot (because NORMALLY giving to a friend is natural and a two-way street). They're not QUALIFIED to 'own' a friend of your calibre, and CERTAINLY not fit. They don't know how to treat people, not even their friends. Can't be arsed/don't wanna/found a new shiny toy. ...Hanging out with Toddlers and Middle-Schoolers. BUT...that doesn't mean you can't give rectifying the dynamic a good try - to see if it CAN be - before you wipe your hands of them. Plus, with said confrontations: once they know you DO/DID mind, WOULD have come if invited - they won't have ANY excuse next time. (In your head alone:) On Probation for the whole, at the very least, childish, uncivilised lot of them. (How long for - 6 months?...1 year?) BTW, what did your Mum think/have to say about you working with your Dad? Has it had any knock-on effect with her?

Oh my god i didn't mean your actual real life profession, meant as the professional of this forum- the professional responder. Sorry thought! "Without having been there, it's hard to say what she was after, so - what do you think?" I actually think she's telling the truth. She is genuinely very confident( or at least acts like it)- BUT is also very insecure mainly because she really hates her body. "Excellent! Best of both worlds. So do you experience, a week or two in each month where you feel more tomboyish and then the rest of the month, neutral/neither way inclined, and then switching for a week or so as in the mood to be more "girlie"? Or is it more mixed, less phasic than tha" No, it's more a day to day thing. "Ooh - Espanol! Que quieres saber - algos? Y porque Espanol? Te gustas?...Quieres lo visitar en futura?" Siempre me ha gustan y veía muchas series españolas de niña. Quería a aprender una lengua mas de solo ingles, y elegia Espanol. "So that last sentance - does that mean you have or are intending to arrange a meet-up with the pair of them? Or you mean you're going to confront them separately? If the latter, I'd suggest you confront F2 BEFORE you confront F1, since F2 went (so's to be seen to follow the surface facts. Or alleged facts...because I'm not sure yet whether I believe F1, not when we have that stupid excuse up there for why you and her other friends couldn't mix because 'once upon a time you said X'). So, first working with your dad and making steady interpersonal progress (including his WANTING you to work with him - huge, positive clue!), and now me playing safetynet as someone always to vent and chat to until such time as you can fly solo again, has obviously done the trick." I'm just meeting F2. Tomorrow, actually so I'll probably make another post and we can know the whole story. "BTW, what did your Mum think/have to say about you working with your Dad? Has it had any knock-on effect with her?" No, not at all. She actually wanted me to go. Besitos

Ooh! I'll wait for tomorrow, then. What TIME tomorrow? If it's not a time that's unsociable for a Night Owl such as moi - want me to be online and ready in case you need to 'pop to the loo' to ask what to say/do next? (And if you need to check back every 10-15 mins, just tell her you've got a touch of diarrhoea...not the bug kind, just that you ate too many prunes the night before. PS: OOH. Go get her, finally-liberated Tiger! :) Or at least give it a jolly good bash and see what happens. PS: If she plays dumb, blames someone/something else, and/or tries to minimise your feelings as petty or over-entitled, turn it around and ask her how SHE would have felt if it'd been done to her. Ostracisation from their pack is the cruellest thing you can do to another person. FACT. (It actually kills horses, doncha know.) Even if it's a case of, were never your pack but no-one thought to tell you. That'd make it a case of, still THEIR bad. Fingers crossed that this one's genuinely normal. But this is a brilliant way to find out, as well as ditto regarding F1 (what F2 REALLY thinks of her). If the person isn't a Narc - disagreements/confrontations, done politely but firmly, are bonding experiences. Let's see.... But you'll feel better whichever way it goes so - win/win. PS: Are there any people your age(ish) at your dad's office?

Actually - even 10 or 15 years older than you. I don't care WHAT your birth certificate says. You're a full adult already. So older friends would actually be on your level. I mean - still 18 and cleaning a friend's kitchen for them? Practically unheard of! Most your age still can't even keep their bloody bedrooms clean and mould-free (glass and coffee-mug collections under the bed, etc.)! 'You're incredible, Muriel!' (seen it?). :)

Heyy So everything went well, here's how the dialogue went: Me: i heard (this) happened F2: yes she just texted us out of the blue, we were surprised that she didn't tell you or M or go Me: why did noone tell me? You should have told me F2: I know i should, but since she texted only us, i didn't think it would be right to just invite another person. She said she'll come back around Christmas so if she texts us again, I'll let you know for sure. So basically if there's a next time i won't be left out i hope. I think that went really good? PS: Are there any people your age(ish) at your dad's office? There is no office haha we have a patisserie. And it's basically just my dad my uncle and me.

I'm falling behind again - sorry! Keeping bearing with. :)

(Bumping you back up for my next available window...) (gaaah...need a P.A. in my RL).

Right, then - let's have a read as I go.... "Heyy" Hola-hola! Que tal? "So everything went well," Aaahhh! Really? " here's how the dialogue went:" (*Cookie Monster* noises)... "Me: i heard (this) happened F2: yes she just texted us out of the blue, we were surprised that she didn't tell you or M or go Me: why did noone tell me? You should have told me F2: I know i should, but since she texted only us, i didn't think it would be right to just invite another person. She said she'll come back around Christmas so if she texts us again, I'll let you know for sure." Exxxxcellent! "So basically if there's a next time i won't be left out i hope. I think that went really good?" Oh! Haha - YES. She's saying - '(Cringe-cringe) I felt damned if I did and damned if I didn't'. That IS a tough position to be in. Personally, I would have passed on the invitation. And if I'd got given "the evils" by turning up with you in tow, I'd have just walked (with you) straight out again. Because I wouldn't want to associate with people who were two-faced and cowardly. Cowards to this "PS: Are there any people your age(ish) at your dad's office? There is no office haha we have a patisserie. And it's basically just my dad my uncle and me." Dad, Uncle and Me Own a Patisserie... (and then you do the next line or two lines - then me again - and see if we end up with a witty, not sh*tty, ditty!) But anyway - REALLY PLEASED FOR YOU - WELL DONE, IN YOUR HORRID POSITION THAT TOOK BIG BALLS. "Thlup, thlup, thlup!!!" (How many is that now?) What she says rings true, but does show you that she does NOT have your big balls. Hers are rather tiny. She was scared to upset EITHER 'side' so stayed in the shadows, paralysed against action. Not as strong and tough as you, see. See how you've got yourself all wrong? Were you shaking? Do you feel better, though - that's the main thing? (PS: Wasn't F1 mentioned anywhere? Are you going to ring her next?) Now, then! What about poor M? Should you ring and share what you know, to console her? I would. AND G? You're surrounded by cowards. Doing a leadership thing like checking to see M is okay, having just bravely confronted not just F2 but a big fear, and obviously firmly but very lady-like-ly (otherwise F2 wouldn't have been capable of responding that bravely-openly), would "shuffle the chairs around" (as in, Musical Chairs) and put you nearer the head of the table. When I say leader, however, I do mean Arranger...you take over the invitating and organising in future because you're the most consciencious and thorough. It's there if you want it? That's how to soar quickly as work, as well. You find a gap in the company 'market' (one that appeals to you) and fill it. E.g. in an office environment, you watch the photocopy/scanner-machine technician like a hawk until you can do what he does - no more expensive Service contracts required - money saved: XXX per annum. You're non pretty indispensible. And have learned a new skill. I mean - ostensibly - these other gals couldn't run a bath or organise a piss-up in a Brewery! Clearly it was last-minute! (Yuh - great event-organisational skills, you lot! NOT.) In fact, why don't you, when you ring them both, suggest that they, you, F2 and F1 have your OWN little get-together? And this time invite everyone else? Oh, except for "the Wandering Star", of course. She's away again until Xmas, isn't she. AWWWWWW..... Ya get me? Little bit of a taste of her own medicine. After all. It was her 'party' so she would have been BOUND to know whom to expect to turn up. No? ...although, saying that, you do still have F1 to Friendlily Interrogate so - ...after that. What do you think? Halloween, perhaps? A bar that's doing a themed evening and you all dress up as vampires n stuff? This is what I would do - had the same sort of nonsense done to me. Most people have. So I'd start my own club. And because I wasn't the uncaring, flakey, lax, thoughtless, cowardly, UNEMPATHETIC(!) type - I got the fairycakes - the others got the mouldy crumbs. It just takes ONE person to take the moral and kindly stand. VIVE LA REVEL-U-SSSION! PS: Hablas un pocito de Frances, tambien?

OOPS! "Cowards to this" degree, make pretty crap friends, you know. But F2 was brave there, look! Even though you handled her quite gently. (So there's hope with her!) And as I say, this is your chance to "play mum" to G and M too. SO........... How did you feel and how do you feel still? Obviously relieved, but - proud of yourself? More confident? What?

PS: The way you did it was very straightforward, grown-up and classy, by the way. THLUP! And impressively assertive (hence it worked)! THLUP-THLUP! (Extra big stars) PPS: Oh - and - Uncle: Do you have cousins and are they your age or a bit older?

I'm really-really proud of you, you know. :X

Heyyy!!!! Soo i don't really know how to say this but i haven't been doing so good lately. I started Uni again, i went for just one day though, and i skipped all the rest cause i felt so bad. I have just been thinking very negatively all the time, like, I'm never gonna have friends, I'm never gonna find a partner, noone likes me, im never gonna make it out of my hometown, bla bla bla. I know these might be unrealistic, but the thing is every single fear I've ever had about my future, or prediction I've made in the past has come true. Yeah i try not to think about that but it's becoming hard to ignore. "What she says rings true, but does show you that she does NOT have your big balls. Hers are rather tiny. She was scared to upset EITHER 'side' so stayed in the shadows, paralysed against action. Not as strong and tough as you, see. See how you've got yourself all wrong? Were you shaking? Do you feel better, though - that's the main thing? (PS: Wasn't F1 mentioned anywhere? Are you going to ring her next?)" I haven't thought about this whole situation in a long time haha. But the conversation was very chill, it wasn't awkward or stressful or anything. F1 wasn't mentioned, no. I actually haven't told her about me meeting up with F2 at all. So about her, we have been talking a lot lately, and she said she'll be coming over next week. (Not sure though cause she always says that and never does) Im actually a little bit worried about her? I think she's getting involved with the wrong people. She's basically hooking up with her neighbour, who's fully on- doing drugs, and before that she hooked up with a guy who filmed his ex girlfriend during sex and then threatened her with it. I don't even know what to say about that. A while ago when she was at her neighbours and a bunch of people showed up uninvited and had a drug party?? I don't know what to say about that either. She started vaping (we relentlessly made fun of people who vape) and smoking weed. (She used to swear there's nothing she hates more than smoking) Also her parents are not talking to her?! Cause she told them she wants to drop out of school and become a dancer? (She doesn't mean that she just told them to get their reactions) I can actually see that happening though, cause she's not doing well in school at all. That was probably insane to read lol, sorry "What about poor M? Should you ring and share what you know, to console her? I would." Ohhhh M is NOT poor. She absolutely does not care if I'm dead or alive, never had really and she showed that often. There was this one time in highschool, when her boyfriend had a football game and it was his birthday the same day. So she told everyone to come to the game and throw him a surprise. Everyone- except me. The day of the game i was talking to F1 and she was like, i have to go get ready, oh why aren't you coming by the way? And i was like, i would, if anyone had invited me... And she said oh come let me text M maybe she forgot. And M said: Tell her not to come, there will be too many people, we will look like a cheerleading team. And I didn't even think that was bad at the time? I literally paid it no mind. I haven't seen her since, February, i think when she invited me to her birthday party. ( She wasn't planning to but F1 told her she wouldn't come if i weren't there) I tried to make conversation with her once after we finished school and she never replied. So I don't have plans of reconciling with this person any time soon. "mean - ostensibly - these other gals couldn't run a bath or organise a piss-up in a Brewery! Clearly it was last-minute! (Yuh - great event-organisational skills, you lot! NOT F2 told me it wasn't last minute at all, it was actually on the table for a really long time, but they couldn't arrange it, cause someone was working, someone was at holiday- you know how it goes. "In fact, why don't you, when you ring them both, suggest that they, you, F2 and F1 have your OWN little get-together? And this time invite everyone else? Oh, except for "the Wandering Star", of course. She's away again until Xmas, isn't she. AWWWWWW....." Uuugh this is very rough. Again, i feel like F2 doesn't like me. We had a good time, and then, nothing. When you ask someone to go out, it's code they have to ask next if they want to. She has never asked me first ( except for like, once),or texted me first, or anything. I think I'll just leave it alone this time. Also, when we went out, we said that we'll definitely visit F1 together again around Christmas. And i know for a fact that is not going to happen unless i reach out to her first again. My pride tells me i shouldn't, but i wanna gooo cause we had such a good time together the last time we went. AAAAA i don't know what to do. PS: Hablas un pocito de Frances, tambien? Nooo, I actually really don't like French at all, don't know why? I took it for 6 years in school, and I don't know anything. But we don't actually learn anything in school so... "Do you have cousins and are they your age or a bit older?" I have like 30 first cousins and I am actually the second youngest. The one i like the most is the youngest haha. I saw them all a while back cause our grandma died. ( Dad's mom) P.S we don't celebrate Halloween here That was probably a long read sorry 😅

Be with you as soon as I humanly can - sorry! PS: I haven't read ahead but it doesn't look like a long one to me (*shrug*)? Add more if you like?

Heyyyy I hope you see this soon cause I don't know what to do So she actually came yesterday and today she texts me that we should see each other today cause she leaves tomorrow. Here's how the conversation went: Her: hey today we'll meet up for sure, but i don't know exactly what time, like around 8 Me: hey today i have class all day and i finish at 8 so maybe I'll leave earlier? Her: I'm gonna out at 6 until 8 with some friends and then at eight I'll see M and after that I'll go out with( some other friend) So before 6 whenever you want Me: I can't at all i have class Her: I'll probably come by next week too so it's all good, maybe we'll talk tonight again? Me: sure She has scheduled with all her friends from here except me. She didn't even bother to ask me my schedule or anything she just assumed I'll be available whenever she wants. I felt so bad and i wanted to say something right away but i just couldn't. Then i thought I'll say it at night if she texts me again but that's kind of unlikely to happen. I don't know what to do should i just complain at a random time or wait until we are talking again? I also don't really trust myself right now cause i just got my period and i always feel crazy when that happens. ( Crazy like extremely sad and extremely mad so i could be overreacting?)

I'm here! First post (well, most of...will do your latest straight after): "She's basically hooking up with her neighbour, who's fully on- doing drugs, and before that she hooked up with a guy who filmed his ex girlfriend during sex and then threatened her with it. I don't even know what to say about that. A while ago when she was at her neighbours and a bunch of people showed up uninvited and had a drug party?? I don't know what to say about that either. She started vaping (we relentlessly made fun of people who vape) and smoking weed. (She used to swear there's nothing she hates more than smoking) Also her parents are not talking to her?! Cause she told them she wants to drop out of school and become a dancer? (She doesn't mean that she just told them to get their reactions) I can actually see that happening though, cause she's not doing well in school at all. That was probably insane to read lol, sorry" _____________ Insane - but I'm not surprised. Seen this too many times before. What can I say, mate? She's now behaving like the Narcissist she is. Unlike Whitney, she's rather be un-happ-y than alone. Remember when I explained that they run out of gullible 'recipients/victims' once you once-teens mentally grow up and move up (out of the playground - joining the Adult world), added to the fact of lay-people these days being very well-educated over ultimately-self-destructive Narcissism and Red Flag behaviours (including dialogue)? She's stunted and behaving like it. Behaving EXACTLY like a teenager - a delinquent c.12-yr-old, or a spoilt, confused c.15/16-yr-old with issues. That's normal for teenagers.... pushing the boundaries, including taking silly risks - right? Including the ridiculous, wholly unnecessary, deliberately antagonist, downright sadistic (considering she's their baby) threat to shun academia in favour of 'dance' (which, given her nowadays-being-revealed, TRUE character. She's not even PRETENDING to be "just like you (and her and her)" any more, is she. And there we have it.... 'She's coming out. She wants the world to know, got to let it show'. (Just not in the good way Diana Ross meant.) Is this the moment where you realised that SOMEHOW, she not only ISN'T like you (as you once thought), but, worse - the complete opposite? Know what I bottom-line think is a contributory factor in this? That you quickly realised you were her quasi-parent/older sister and that imprinted you with a very strong idea that you therefore had to always be there for her and tolerate her. Am I close? And that lately it's been particularly keen...because, even without knowing, you're getting broody. Close again? Unless you want to get sucked down into that narcissistic rabbit-hole WITH her, you now are going to have to face the fact that it's now time to start shuffling away, bit-by-unnoticeable bit so that she adapts unawares to life withoug you. I mean, it's not just her REAL parents' investment she's throwing back in their faces, is it. She's doing it to you (all that role-modelling) as well. It's because they refuse to allow anyone to positively influence them....(neither listen nor heed...advice fallng on deaf ears, no matter if the mouth goes, Ya, ya, good idea!). They just want to be the ones who (negatively) 'influence' you.

"I hope you see this soon cause I don't know what to do So she actually came yesterday and today she texts me that we should see each other today cause she leaves tomorrow. Here's how the conversation went: Her: hey today we'll meet up for sure, but i don't know exactly what time, like around 8" (Typical Narc - TELLING you how it's going to be (your opinion or input, immaterial.) "Me: hey today i have class all day and i finish at 8 so maybe I'll leave earlier? Her: I'm gonna out at 6 until 8 with some friends and then at eight I'll see M and after that I'll go out with( some other friend) So before 6 whenever you want" (Ditto. 'Take it or leave it'.) "Me: I can't at all i have class" (Standing up for your rights and agency! - THLUP!) "Her: I'll probably come by next week too so it's all good, maybe we'll talk tonight again?" (Oh, WILL you, your rotten Highness? What happened to - Shall we switch to next week as I'll be coming by again then?) "Me: sure" (Short, sweet, flat, unimpressed - YEAH, WHADDEVAAAAH, TRE-VAAAAAH! Yawn.) (THLUP!) "She has scheduled with all her friends from here except me." OR SO SHE'D HAVE YOU BELIEVE. "She didn't even bother to ask me my schedule or anything she just assumed I'll be available whenever she wants." YYUP! "I felt so bad and i wanted to say something right away but i just couldn't." GOOD CALL! ('Don't take action when emotionally aroused (either way)') THLUP! "Then i thought I'll say it at night if she texts me again but that's kind of unlikely to happen." What bloody difference would it make, anyway, if you DID discuss/complain? You've already too many times SEEN that's how it goes, yourself. No point. Your 'feet' did-said - NO POINT (f**kit). That was spot-on! "I don't know what to do should i just complain at a random time or wait until we are talking again?" You've skipped a step: Where's your idea for the under-her-radar/under vocal-abilities Consequence as Punishment, first? THAT way...she doesn't even NEED to Not Listen/Pretend To Listen, big-fat-eh. SPEAK HER LANGUAGE. What would a distinctly offended and unimpressed young woman or man DO in this situation, where they've just been DELIBERATELY (she needn't have told you any of that, let alone bloody listed them) "told": You Matter Least, mleugh! (She's probably heard that you rang F2 but never rang her, whaah-whaah, stamp-stamp. She's top-secretly insecure, jealous and possessive over you, remember?) " I also don't really trust myself right now cause i just got my period and i always feel crazy when that happens. ( Crazy like extremely sad and extremely mad so i could be overreacting?)" Edit: I've just got my period and when that happens, I lose the strength I normally have for coping with it/blinkering myself from it. NOPE. NOT OVERREACTING. ACTING LIKE A SELF-LOVING THUS DEFENDING AND PROTECTING, GROWN-UP *LADY*. Underneath all her illusions, you two are Chalk and Cheese. She's the Cheese and, not only is she crumbly and stinky, but, isn't at all Mature (haha-sorry, couldn't resist). You're not, nor were ever, the problematic element. You deserve someone in your higher league now. Doesn't mean you can't start ringing and arranging stuff with the other girls you do still like, like F2 - and meanwhile let F2 do ALL the running and effort from now on (so that you don't create yourself expectations that she can then dash/crush). So let's see what SHE and ONLY she does next week, then (- "Don't promise me, just surprise me, tw*t-face"). Say it with me: I CAAAAN'T.....BE.......*ARSED!!!!* ANY MORE! Short answer: You've begun perfectly (10/10) - now follow-through (phase 2) with your PROUD reaction and response and see what she 'does with it'. This is you laying down RULES OF (MUTUALLY-RESPECTFUL) ENGAGEMENT: A Neon sign (your lack of contact/response/interest) that reads: 'The Doctor-come-Secret-Mummy will no longer be seeing patients without a pre-arranged appointment'. Seriously, this has been like watching Kate Middleton hang out with some mentally-disturbed bag-lady, haha.

Right, then - Pledge Activated! :) Even if I don't have time to do everyone - yours I will check on every single evening from now on. (DEAD proud! You are BLOSSOMING, my sweet! :))))))

(Tsk - didn't finish the sentance: "(which, given her nowadays-being-revealed, TRUE character", would probably mean, Pole Dancing).

If there's a next time - you need to upgrade this - ""Me: sure"" - a wee (non-noticeable) bit to this: Me: Yeh, maybe :) or Me: No worries or Me: Got a lot on next week tho, so best to pin me down beforehand to a definite day/time :) Feel the difference? Feel the turning of the table? That's you, fortifying the fence you've just erected, with steel cladding. If she notices, she'll then begin PUSHING against it to see if she can remove it (e.g. if it's fake...MDF painted to look like steel).

Update: i just woke up to a hundred texts from her I love you so much I'm so sad i didn't see you but I'll be back the week after this one( instead of next week like she said before?) I went to see my friend who just gave birth and then i went to dinner with my parents and my brother( her brother who just registered in the army?!)( and where's all the stuff she said she'd do?)( she's leaving out seeing M that i saw on both their insta stories) I really wanted to see you and i was planning to stay tomorrow too and surprise you But this happens: Insert twenty texts with screenshots of huge work drama So I'll have to go tomorrow as soon as possible because i have noone to cover for me i miss you so much i promise I'll be back or else you come over Seriously what am I supposed to reply to this mess

Oops - sorry - another typo: "Doesn't mean you can't start ringing and arranging stuff with the other girls you do still like, like F2 - and meanwhile let F2 do ALL the running and effort from now on (so that you don't create yourself expectations that she can then dash/crush)" Should be: And meanwhile let F! do (etc).

"Update: i just woke up to a hundred texts from her I love you so much I'm so sad i didn't see you but I'll be back the week after this one( instead of next week like she said before?) I went to see my friend who just gave birth and then i went to dinner with my parents and my brother( her brother who just registered in the army?!)( and where's all the stuff she said she'd do?)( she's leaving out seeing M that i saw on both their insta stories) I really wanted to see you and i was planning to stay tomorrow too and surprise you But this happens: Insert twenty texts with screenshots of huge work drama So I'll have to go tomorrow as soon as possible because i have noone to cover for me i miss you so much i promise I'll be back or else you come over Seriously what am I supposed to reply to this mess" Right. And this is an exact repeat of what happened the last time you gave her a response consisting of just one crumb. Although this time, there are more calls. Not just more, but an inappropriate amount as aligns with (Re-)Love-Bombing you! So let's get this straight: to her, you're worth a (SEEMINGLY heart-panicky, but, really, just head-panic to regain CONTROL over you) 'hundred ' - 'HUN...DRED' - I.E. EXCESSIVE AMOUNT - of texts? And not only that - but declarations of Love? I love you automatically has to include, I respect you (and your time). And I Love You is as I Love You *Does* - not fails to do...only and solely to YOU. She does not love you. She loves that (previously) she was allowed to perform downright lazily and shoddily and always get let off (or punished only pettily by her standards). The time for having said/explained all of that was earlier. Not now, when it's too late and we know she's had time to sit and think them up! (I wanna punch her now. Who the uck does she think she's dealing with?! Sooo insulting to your intelligence!...or to Intelligence full-stop!) Yeah, leaving out prior lie minutae... This case - to MINIMISE her crime! (TICK!) ______________________________ "Seriously what am I supposed to reply to this mess" Responses Menu -------------- Option 1. 'I wish I could believe you, but, your actions keep disagreeing with your mouth'. Option 2. 'Sure' Option 3. 'Sorry, not ignoring you - caught up in a long conversation - bear with...' (But then reply in 3 days' time.) (She'll recognise the number 3 - just not consciously....or maybe consciously, but who cares now.) (Oh, and FYI, the long conversation is this/me so it's not a lie! :))

Option 4 (The Sarcy Special): Ah. So that'd explain why I always feel sooooo loved by you.

Option 5 (the In Your Face of the Day): Blah blah blah Option 6: (just this link): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IgjUYrDbWI (The lyrics for your info Talk Talk (by group of the same name, Talk Talk) [Intro] Hey (Hey, hey, hey) [Verse 1] Well, did I tell you before when I was up? Anxiety was bringing me down I'm tired of listening to you talking in rhymes Twisting around to make me think you're straight down the line [Chorus] All you do to me is talk, talk Talk, talk, talk, talk All you do to me is talk, talk Talk, talk, talk, talk All you do to me is talk, talk [Verse 2] If every sign that I see is complete Then I'm a fool in your game And all you want to do is tell me your lies Won't you show the other side, you're just wasting my time [Chorus] All you do to me is talk, talk Talk, talk, talk, talk All you do to me is talk, talk Talk, talk, talk, talk All you do to me is talk, talk [Verse 3] When every choice that I make is yours Keep telling me what's right and what's wrong Don't you ever stop to think about me I'm not that blind to see that you've been cheating on me You're laughing at me when I'm up I see you when you're crying for me when I'm down I see you when you're laughing at me when I'm up I see you when you're crying for me [Chorus] All you do to me is talk, talk Talk, talk, talk, talk All you do to me is talk, talk Talk, talk, talk, talk ((etc)) PS: I see you when you're laughing at me when I'm up = belittling me or my achievements, generally raining on my happy parade. I see you when you're crying for me when I'm down = Pity-Ployingly summoning me when I've enough of my own problems. PPS: Cheating on me doesn't necessarily mean in a romantic way. Just refusing to do things properly, honestly, openly, befittingly trustingly for the so-called closeness and tenure. Cheating At best friendship. 'All mouth and no trousers'. Blah-blah....Talk-talk. Option 7: "Hmm" LOADSA choices! What do you reckon? Which or what do you FEEL like saying? Have a go yourself! :) Oh wait - Option 8: Yawn. (One of my personal faves, that one, haha. VERY low-effort indeed.)

Option 9: Tedious. Very very tedious. Option 10: You wanna be careful or your nose could get stuck like that. Option 11: F*CK OFF Followed immediately with - Sh*t, sorry - mis-send! And if any of those backfire (naaaah), you can wait a few days and then text to EXCUSE AND JUSTIFY IT with the fact you had utterly dreadful PMT. (Out-Narc-ing the Narc, yeah, baby)

Option 12: Cool story, but it needs more dragons n sh*t. Option 13: (The Confuse Her to F*ck method): Ahh. Bless. (What TONE was that said in? Haha, that'll tie her in knots and get her brain itching and nagging like crazy!) ('Ah can't get no sleep' - Insomnia) by Faithless - haha!)

Anyway.... she's basically trying to placate you so that you'll believe you can take that new boundary down. Because you're thick. She thinks. Because she's too thick to recognise genuine intelligence or any greater than a slug's (hers). Too thick to know how intelligent you are. ('Anizzenid ironic...doncha think?...') PS: Psych fact: Kindness is an expression of higher intelligence. The kinder you are, the more intelligent. Definition of true intelligence: High iQ AND EQ WORKING TOGETHER, SIMULTANEOUSLY, AS ONE (Spock n Kirk - best buds - team players - always succeed).

Heyy Unfortunately i didn't get to see this before i answered but it will be kept in mind! I was just honest So she texted again around 7, she saw i had viewed the messages but didn't respond so: Her: good morning Don't be mad that we didn't get to see eachother Me: I'm not mad that we didn't get to see eachother Her: you're sad i know Me: im mad that you scheduled with everyone else and put me last and you throw a "before six" at me without even asking if i could Her: i know that was shitty of me I'll come again next week I promise I'll come just for you You're right I'm so stupid You know you're my best friend you're above everyone I'll make it up to you i promise At this point i was tired so i just said i know and i was planning to end the conversation there but we ended up talking about unrelated things for two hours 😭 Also i love how invested you are in this, seriously thank you so much for replying to everything

Heyy! Is everything ok?

Yep, just too busy as usual. Should be with you tomorrow!

Sorry, as usual. Would have been, were it not for the YET MORE monsoony rain (called Gotafria here)! Nothing like poor, battered Valencia (have you seen?!), but still reaching the door thresholds and needing sandbagging and mopping up (no damage). The ground was still too hard-baked when the Gotafrias hit, see. But it's finally soaked away here, now, so hopefully everywhere else now. "Climate Change". Makes it sound so benign and trivial, doesn't it. How's Greece? Now to ketchup... ________________________ "Heyy" Heyyyy, Fonzie! (google lol) "Unfortunately i didn't get to see this before i answered but it will be kept in mind!" Okie-dokey. "I was just honest" Not good to be honest with a narc, unless you're very firm and state what the consequences will be if they cross whatever lines again. E.g., 'You constantly claim I'm your best friend, which means first in the queue, but seem to use me as a convenience and back-up plan while I'm the one who constantly does the heavy lifting. If you continue in this fashion, I'm afraid I'll have to take that as your refusal to start investing equally or at least equitably thus your admission that we are NOT best friends any more, just acquaintances, whom both, still equally, behave accordingly.' "So she texted again around 7, she saw i had viewed the messages but didn't respond so:" ...so, Forrestina having at least a few braincells - she worked it out and... "Her: good morning Don't be mad that we didn't get to see eachother" I will be mad whenever someone lets me down whom is SUPPOSED to see and appreciate what a wonderful friend I am. Otherwise, take it up with my Maker. Either the big one upstairs or the two little ones down here. Until then I'm a human and am going to behave like it. If you don't like my being mad, in other words - don't do maddening things - simples! "Me: I'm not mad that we didn't get to see eachother Her: you're sad i know (Putting words in your mouth, telling YOU how you feel - tick!) Me: im mad* that you scheduled with everyone else and put me last and you throw a "before six" at me without even asking if i could" (*Well done for not having taken the trouble to correct her directly, head-on ("caan't be aaarsed, yawn, this is just BORING AND TEDIOUS now....... YOU...are just boring and tedious now..."). Seriously fantastic sign in you - well done!) "Her: i know that was shitty of me" Aww, p*ss oooff... Not 'THAT was' - 'those TWO things', Little Miss Minimiser! (tick!) (So what's she going to do-do-DOOOO about it?) "I'll come again next week I promise I'll come just for you" Not 'I'll come again' - 'I'll come again...IF YOU LIKE?'. (over-entitled Controller even after committing a crime/being in the wrong, when she should be humble- tick!) "You're right I'm so stupid" (Making-out you called her stupid - Covert Vulnerable move - tick!) Oh. Only just occurred to you now that you've had it pointed out to you, has it, Forrestina? Awwww...ask Mummyyyy to heeewp, ahhh... Try betraying and insulting, given your very lengthy, *alleged* role of importance in my life! (The way she insults yours/people's intelligence, ach... That's what I most want to slap her face over, in fact!) "You know you're my best friend you're above everyone" She's JUST TOLD you and SHOWN you she bloody doesn't, Lucy-Lastic-Liar! And WHY! How come YOU aren't explaining why YOU conveniently all-of-a-conveniently-timed sudden went STUPID. Why not, felt stupid at the TIME or stupid at the THOUGHT? (Pff...) "I'll make it up to you i promise" Yeah? Will ya? Haven't you said that before? WE'LL see, won't we... (You've got her cornered now, and on Probation, WT. :)) "At this point i was tired so i just said i know and i was planning to end the conversation there but we ended up talking about unrelated things for two hours 😭" Tried to exhaust your brains out of you, did she? (Spath-Covert TICK!) _______________________________ Heh-heh. WT, you *are* funny. You REALLY have no clue how intelligent and clever you are. You've just apologised for not having done serious, Last Chance Saloon assertion, and yet you just have...you've Cornered her. She has to behave. And KEEP behaving. You *will* suddenly find her boring and pointless and childish, however. But that's fine because then you can see her less while you grow a new Bestie. This is another reason why these bozos kick up so much dust. So that your mind is too taken-up and busy working them out and why they've just done/said, meanwhile, coping with the misery and need for self-pity they inflict on you, that you don't notice how boring....boring.....BORING they are. You kind-of KNOW, now, that the lights are on but barely anyone is home. They feel like - well, Not Enough! (- and ain't THAT a coinkydinky since that's what they try to convince YOU are!). (((((((((((((((((Proud Hug))))))))))))))))))))) I am SO proud of you, WT, I really am. (You should be in POLITICS, girl - the way you did that? Soooo smoooooooth... so unobvious and unremarkable-sounding....talk about think enough to slink through the gap in a closed door, haha!) "Also i love how invested you are in this, seriously thank you so much for replying to everything" Ahhhh... you're always very, very welcome. :) You're so cooperative/team-playing, you make it easy anyway. As for everyone else? It's always a bloody good read, as well! What a fantastic preview and inside view other would-be or would-be-2nd-time victims our readers and lurkers are getting - as well as you! Winny-win-win-win-WIN. And it AIN'T OVER YET?! (Dan-dan-daaaaaaan! Tune in next fortnight, folks!) Seriously...watching you grow more into Yourself and develop 'big guns' is better than Telly! :D

And thanks for your incredible-incredible Patience with me/Spain. I used to run like clockwork, an Army General, never mind Not Late - a good 10 mins early (get to choose the table that way, too, hahaha) - but since I hit Spain (and Spain hit me), I'm all over the bloody place. I've GOT to stop talking like I'm still in England and thinking I KNOW what I'm doing - or in these cases, not doing - and saying 'Be with you tomorrow!'. Do me a flavour and train me back - i.e. if I say that - tell me off and remind me, I'll BE here, next time, just as soon as Spain beeping LETS me! Say things like - 'Now, we BOTH know that's utter BS; intentional BS, but still, so cut the crap Smatey!'. Be as hard a task-master as you like. (Damnit, got a mozzie flying round me - gotta spray!)...

BTW, I didn't ask you: do you need me to be checking on you daily? Feelings-wise? Obviously, you've got her sewn-up and cornered, but do you have enough day-to-day human company for your particular appetite at the mo? Are other new people showing you your value?

Heyy! Sorry i took so long! Soo, before responding, I want to talk about something else. You remember the whole situation about my mom cheating on my dad right? Here is my entry about it again: "My mom has been cheating on my dad for years, with at least two men, I've known since i was twelve. With the first guy, i guess thigs dried out pretty quickly, they stopped talking, i think the same year i found out( when i was twelve). Then there was nothing. This past year i saw all the signs again. She changed her password, started hiding her phone from me, spent hours talking on it. I actually knew the guy this time, he brings us supplies for our small business. So she has brought him into our home multiple times. I admit that i went through her phone, i know that was a violation of her privacy, but i was sure something was going on. Certainly enough, they were calling each other babe, sending hearts, saying I LOVE YOU. What the hell? They couldn't have known each other more that a few months when i saw that. And she was telling him EVERYTHING about me. At this point, i wish i didn't know but it was impossible to miss it. She has done many things that are unforgivable to me, like shamelessly lying to me all the time, gaslighting me example: i see a teddy bear in her closet, i know very well he gave it her. I ask: where did you get this? - This? We've had it for years, don't you remember? - No, I've never seen it before. - Are you crazy? We've had it since you were children, i brought it from the attic. - What? I swear I've never seen it before And that's where i usually drop it cause im tired. Last year she took me on vacation and she made me stay in a house he owned. When i realise i wanted to get out of there as fast as possible. Then he actually showed up to "visit" us and she stayed in the house alone with with him while i had gone to the beach. How stupid does she think i am? Then there are these business trips that she goes on, in which He drives her( she usually lies and says she takes the bus) Every Time i tell her to take me with her she says no, " because we'll spend too much money" I'm so tired of the lies, and I've tried to (very subtly) make her understand that i know and to drop the bullshit. I don't know if she's caught up with it. I'm not planning to say anything to my dad, we're really not close and my mom is all i have. But this situation makes me sick. "I do have a lot of family. I have my Grandma, who i cherish, and my aunt. And by the way, my aunt, my mom's older sister, definitely knows of her doings as well. And i have serious suspicions that she, as well is cheating on her long term boyfriend. I couldn't be sure, thought. But what the hell? Is it a family thing? Am i going to be like that? And why am i the one finding out everyone's secrets? They need to hide them better i swear, cause i have zero desire to know." So a few weeks ago, i found out about another man. She had her phone open with their chat (she had him under the name dance club) so i reach to close it, and i see texts that the dance club WOULD NOT send. I scroll up a little bit, and i see pictures of them kissing in his car. So not only is she cheating, but with two different men at the same time. AND the second guy, i know again, and guess who it is? It is the guy i was suspecting my aunt was cheating on her boyfriend with.(I had seen texts of them two sending eachother hearts and calling each other baby) I don't know what the hell is going on. Im getting more and more confused every time i think about this. And she is lying to me about him too, saying she doesn't know who he is and stuff.

About F1, she in fact did not come, not the following week, not at all. She said that one of her coworkers had covid and she had to cover for her. And then she started uni as well, so of course she wasn't able. What was i supposed to tell her? Quit your job? We have been talking every day though.

"BTW, I didn't ask you: do you need me to be checking on you daily? Feelings-wise? Obviously, you've got her sewn-up and cornered, but do you have enough day-to-day human company for your particular appetite at the mo? Are other new people showing you your value?" I do have people to talk to, thanks! Not like i talk to you, of course ;⁠-⁠)

Heya! Scoozie delay (a-gaaaiin, yawn). Think I've been fighting-off Covid - Omicrom. Down to regular Flu level but, there's still that strange schmorgasboard of symptoms, including the biggie - the 'sleeping sickness' side to it so, be careful yourself now that it's bug season. I'll get to your first last (read the first line), since the last 2 are just shorties: ___________________________ "About F1, she in fact did not come, not the following week, not at all. She said that one of her coworkers had covid and she had to cover for her. And then she started uni as well, so of course she wasn't able. What was i supposed to tell her? Quit your job? We have been talking every day though." Urrrgh. So she broke her promise by NOT 'making it up to you'. That'd be right. Could be true - especially in view of what I've just opened with (hadn't read ahead!), but she obviously wanted the extra pay or something...not that you would have wanted to see her at work, obviously, but you could have seen her one evening outside of her working hours, surely - especially in light of the fact she's the one effectively said she OWED you so, you'd think, couldn't AFFORD not to *make* time for you, or at least give some concrete, near-future date. Did she? Let's see. Yeah, talking's convenient, isn't it. But that wasn't what was promised (, is the point). And it sounds to me like you had to ASK to find out it were a No Go, that she didn't initiate the contact not give you ample notice/forwarning. Correct? This is what Narcs do, I'm afraid. Whereas Normal people throw water - Narcs throw fat onto the fire and just keep adding insult after insult to original injury which then gets suffocated by too many emotional crime sheets in your intray until the damn thing topples over, all the papers get mixed-up and THEN where and how does one even know where to BEGIN in their complaint/appeal?! She put that money and/or colleague first in the queue, ahead of you as usual. So now we make HER the one queing. So don't bring it up nor let HER bring it up - sense/hear it coming and 'oops, cheese-on-toast's burning under the grill, gotta go, byee, love ya!-CLICK, brr....' But let's see if in your next she redeemed herself... _________________________ ""BTW, I didn't ask you: do you need me to be checking on you daily? Feelings-wise? Obviously, you've got her sewn-up and cornered, but do you have enough day-to-day human company for your particular appetite at the mo? Are other new people showing you your value?" I do have people to talk to, thanks! Not like i talk to you, of course ;⁠-⁠)" Ohh, you flatterer, you! Hahahaha. (How much should I write the cheque for?) Nah... That's really good to hear. You're on your way! And since, no, she HASN'T redeemed herself, rather has used a common tactic for the Covert which still comes under The Pity Ploy ("Think of all the starving children in Africa!) whereby you feel (for the second time recently) that you can't complain lest it makes you an unfeeling Cow (when, no you aren't if this is them repeating a crime AND breaking a fresh promise!) - IT'S DEMOTION TIME, FOLKS! "Phone Friend". From now on, she has to work super-hard to get you to agree to meet up in-person (ohh, but it's only because I'm soo busy...yoou know what that's like, remembeeer?). Or rather - pointing to the self-demoting elephant in the room that she and only she plonked there and making HER have to deal with the consequences. All together now: She Shoulda Thoughta That! Now there's a plan that just takes what the two of you are already doing but, where you have secretly stolen the- not Antagonist (that's her), but Protagonist (actor's) position: You are stealing the Perpetrator Cloak, 'tee-hee'. Let's sit back and see how long it takes her to realise that (a) you've Turned the Tables ("Out-Narced the Narc"), versus, (b), that you haven't asked about meeting up because you no longer give a shite, "either". (And then this will present a new Menu of how to outfox her.) With any luck, she WON'T complain, meaning, you have that conversational buffer (if you ignore any insults altogether) whilst free to attract people with their own Bessie Mate 2B vacancies at their own Heart Inc....AND to build that sloooowly... As opposed to Grey Rock or No Contact, I call this tack "The Long, Slow Goodbye".....down to fingertips....eee.........hey, didn't feel a thing! You just sloooowly let go until Phone Friends is indeed all you are, and, if she merely switches her mistreatment to the verbal - you'll be less attached, enough to tell her what you think of her these days and give her the Royal boot. Or, of course, she might learn her lesson and never mistreat you again. Usually NOT, though. By then you'll have the full 100% of realisation over how out of your league she was and that, actually, you should be picking a lot higher now. Point is, you can't lose except for once the umbilicus has withered sufficiently that, like Rhett Butler, you 'no longer give a damn' (name the film!). After all, if you were her or anyone else, wouldn't YOU be thrilled to have someone like you as your bessie? PS: Isn't she just soooo tedious, though. She's like a human Bad Hair Day. So now we back-comb her (heh heh).

Sorry - how BELOW your league she is. You're the one who's 'out of her league'. I should check before I post, really, shouldn't I (oopth).

"Point is, you can't lose except for once the umbilicus has withered sufficiently that, like Rhett Butler, you 'no longer give a damn' (name the film!)." I.e. ONCE you're less attached (maybe imperceptibly-incrementally under your own radar), you'll be surprised at how piss-easy it is to no longer care and therefore see continuing the so-called friendship, now inappropriate as well as without-end futile. That's like - yes, you'd always prefer the dentist to fix everything in one go, but you still hate the initial Injection the most, so it has to be administered veeery sloowly and gently...and then, s/he can do whatever he likes cos the hard part's over so YOU AIN'T BOVVERED! :) Go on - make her whinge and chase you. You'll love it. Plus it'll get rid of another HUGE portion of umbilicus, but AFTER having harmlessly stolen your ego pieces BACK! - you watch! In 'ancient' times, this was simply known as, giving the other person a taste of their own medicine. So if it's virtually effort-free and difference-free - I say, go for it!

(Moderator's bump-up)

Heyy!! "Think I've been fighting-off Covid - Omicrom. Down to regular Flu level but, there's still that strange schmorgasboard of symptoms, including the biggie - the 'sleeping sickness' side to it so, be careful yourself now that it's bug season." Are you ok by now?? "About F1, she in fact did not come, not the following week, not at all. She said that one of her coworkers had covid and she had to cover for her. And then she started uni as well, so of course she wasn't able. What was i supposed to tell her? Quit your job? We have been talking every day though." Urrrgh. So she broke her promise by NOT 'making it up to you'. That'd be right." Yeahh, I wasn't surprised at all, she always does this. Even before we started having problems (or maybe i started having problems) she always did this. She says she will do something and then never does it. It was expected. She said she would be here for my birthday, then my name day, then the next week, the next week, bla bla bla. She said she would come in Friday a few days ago ( can you guess what happened?) BUT she said she has taken the whole Christmas holidays off and that she'll stay home the whole time. ( Unless someone gets covid again, who knows?) "And it sounds to me like you had to ASK to find out it were a No Go, that she didn't initiate the contact not give you ample notice/forwarning. Correct?" YESS!!! It's what always happens, or happened until i stopped asking. She could be telling me she's coming over weeks prior, then i hear nothing, i ask and she says noooo cause bla bla "Could be true - especially in view of what I've just opened with (hadn't read ahead!), but she obviously wanted the extra pay or something...not that you would have wanted to see her at work, obviously, but you could have seen her one evening outside of her working hours, surely - especially in light of the fact she's the one effectively said she OWED you so, you'd think, couldn't AFFORD not to *make* time for you, or at least give some concrete, near-future date. Did she? Let's see." Hhhmm i don't know exactly how it works... But right now she's working two jobs... she's a dancer and recently she got a job as a teacher. When she got it she told me that there was no way she would accept it, because she would have no time for school. Guess what she did? Yeah... I think I've mentioned this before, she has told me before she she's thinking of quitting and becoming a dancer there full time. She told me "I won't do it though, cause my parents are paying for me to study and im not gonna waste all their money "Also her parents are not talking to her?! Cause she told them she wants to drop out of school and become a dancer? (She doesn't mean that she just told them to get their reactions) I can actually see that happening though, cause she's not doing well in school at all. That was probably insane to read lol, sorry" Remember this? It's from October and already becoming reality lol "After all, if you were her or anyone else, wouldn't YOU be thrilled to have someone like you as your bessie?" Oh my god this!!! I just wish someone would put as much effort in me as i put in them. Remember the reason this whole drama happened? That she came over, sceduled with everyone else, left me last and told me to meet her at six, and i couldn't, cause i had class? I was actually ready to drop class, get on a bus for 30 minutes and see her. But i stopped myself, cause i thought: would she do something like that for me? Obviously not. So I didn't do it.

Also! Let me tell about my friend situation recently. I've been talking to this girl literally since the first day of first year in uni, cause we randomly sat together. She was the only person i talked to in uni for a long time and i value her a lot for that. The thing is, and it's going to be mean, that she BORES me. We never do anything, she doesn't even want to go outside the classroom during breaks, we don't really hangout outside uni, cause she lives in another city. She is extremely driven when it comes to uni to the point it looks like she doesn't care about anything other than her grades. I've caught her lying about stuff before, like her uni entrance exam scores. She doesn't tell me what her grades are, and she doesn't want give notes to anyone to except for me. She once refused to give notes to me too, because she said "it will look like we're copying eachother" which is extremely weird because first that's just not true and second noone gives a shit about that. Soo this semester i have started hanging out with another friend group. (It's 4 girls and one guy) I really want to be part of said friend group but i just don't know how to include myself. We only talk in uni, I'm not part of the group chat, or the hangouts or anything. I don't know how to make that happen and i don't want to seem too desperate. The other thing is, the girl i mentioned before, doesn't talk to these people(except one girl). She doesn't really talk to anyone else other than me and her and i don't want to leave her alone. Like, they might tell me to go sit with them, and i tell them no, because i always sit with her and she only wants to sit in the front of the class. I really don't want to look like im abandoning her, but i feel like she's holding me back.

Heya - be with you Tuesday/Wednesday daytime latest but aim to try tomorrow eve. PS: nope, still Covidy, but it's up and down, as usual. Trouble is, that leaves me having to deal with real life backlogs the minute I feel up, which doesn't leave time over for this before I dip down again. But I've re-scheduled some stuff to give me Tuesday and Wednesday free, so I should feel okay enough at least ONE of those two! Otherwise, I'll be complaining to management, LOL. Speak soon, then...

Well, that was a massive fail on my part. Now aiming for tomorrow, probably evening after everyone in RL's shut-up, haha.

Hey-hey! Cheers for asking after me. Yeah, I'm okay one day then shite and just needing to sleep the next. Think it's on-off starting to ease, though, as is the weather (been heavy pressure lately which doesn't help). "Urrrgh. So she broke her promise by NOT 'making it up to you'. That'd be right." "Yeahh, I wasn't surprised at all, she always does this" Yes, I know. "Even before we started having problems" Didn't know this, though. But did guess haha. It's like (scuse extreme example) rapists (i.e. the physical as well as one-hit mental rape kind). They don't wake up one morning, a fully-fledged rapist. They inch their way, over years... maybe start with flashing ("indecent exposure"). " (or maybe i started having problems)" Started having a problem with HER having/causing problems, you mean, yes? Yup...that's how it happens (drip-drip-drip-drip-drip). Additionally-simultaneously, you think - If I just try harder, be more loving and understanding...'. But nope. All you're doing is Feeding The Monster and so they start take-taking and mistreating even MORE. As you found: plonk yourself into separate, different situations and things start to come into sharp relief. "she always did this. She says she will do something and then never does it." It's INFURIATING, frustrating - everything -ating - until that becomes Hating (too much resentment from issues never actually resolved). "It was expected." I wonder if SHE was? (meow) (get it? :D) (sorry - it's gotta be done....she's pissing me off again). You feel like yelling through a megaphone: If you give so little of a stuff about our so-called friendship then why not just sod-off and leave me alone!? WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU (AAARGH!)?!... But that's like beseeching them to prove they're Normal, not Abnormal and Friendship-Abusive, when - that'd only work ON a Normal ("...An' izznid ironic...doncha think?"). "She said she would be here for my birthday," B*tch. "then my name day," Double-B*tch. "then the next week," Treble-B*tch. "the next week," Quadruple B*tch. "bla bla bla." Quintuple, Sextuple and Septuple B*tch. (You sure that's all of it?) " She said she would come in Friday a few days ago" HAHA! NO IT'S NOT, LOOK! Wow....she really is taking the right, royal piss with you, isn't she. Jeeeez. She's known you practically as long as a sister but can't even keep you company on your BIRTHDAY OF ALL DAYS. For future reference: Unless one of their loved-ones was rushed to hospital that day/night - DEAL-BREAKER ALERT! ...Although, that presupposes one is fortunate enough to be in a POSITION to dump (just yet). So you'll have been processing and filing recent stuff AND dis-intering and reprocessing stuff from your past, at super-fast speed, ever since the pair of you hit Uni (or the fact you'd been background processing came to the conscious fore, maybe) (probably). "( can you guess what happened?)" The girl has no shame (mega-Tick!). "BUT she said she has taken the whole Christmas holidays off" ((OHHHH, FFFFFFF- OFF!)) " and that she'll stay home the whole time." ((DO ONE!)) " ( Unless someone gets covid again, who knows?)" Yeah, or, someone she doesn't know needs help crossing the road, lengthways, but meanwhile, Sod You, her (pff) Bestie-come-Sister. MAKE YOUR OWN PLANS AND/OR ACCEPT ANY INVITATIONS. And then when (sorry - IF) she comes through, you say, 'OH!...You were SERIOUS?...I thought it'd get cancelled like all the other X no. of arrangements you've backed out of!'. It's called, her having Cried Wolf, having drip-drip(-splosh) trained you to cease taking any invitations/arrangements/promises - or frankly, anything that comes out of her mouth - seriously ever again. But - ON YOUR VERY BIRTHDAY? SERIOUSLY? And then againandagainandagain on top???? So make your own plans or make No Plan a plan, e.g., film fest, fave chocs, nuts and liquer...your own little roast Xmas lunch - indulgence fest, and DON'T, WHATEVER YOU DO, give-in if she 'comes through' but only at the 11th Hour (if she does that, it'll be a litmus test on how many other friends you have). Come on here and chat to me if you have to. But, Christmas,...that should be signed and sealed at least 2 weeks prior to Xmas (and even that is cutting it fine). Anyway, as I hinted up there: Oh, HAVE you, F1, ...'taken' the whole Xmas Hols off...Have you REALLY? (Anyanyway - that doesn't mean YOU'RE getting any or enough of it, does it! Nor does 'will stay home the whole time' mean it'll be shared with you. Were that the case, why not actually set those dates in stone NOW? Answer's obvious, isn't it: She wants you to leave YOURSELF completely free for 'the whole of Xmas Hols' so that if she has no better offers, she can last minute dot com you and you'll leap at the chance. Not this time. Make her pay even BEFORE she's committed that (we know accept-) inevitable crime. "And it sounds to me like you had to ASK to find out it were a No Go, that she didn't initiate the contact not give you ample notice/forwarning. Correct?" YESS!!! It's what always happens, or happened until i stopped asking. She could be telling me she's coming over weeks prior, then i hear nothing, i ask and she says noooo cause bla bla" You must have been utterly DESPERATE. Yet the ironic thing is: with a Narc in your life, you lose the capability of drawing nice people towards you and attracts only narcs, narcs and more narcs, but which ("Hello!") has the victim convinced that the reason they've no other friends is because they're not (pff!) likeable when in fact the opposite is true which is WHY these super-high-maintenance and attention-gripping eejits ensure you have no room for, nor any thoughts for, others. So that they have a 24/7 slave or convenient back-up person (same thing). BECAUSE THEY LITERALLY CANNOT BE ALONE. They need the constant distraction of people around them like we need Oxygen. Can you see, now, how you're just her emergency back-up Oxygen Tank? And this isn't ABOUT whether she genuinely likes or ever genuinely did. It's about this (your new mantra for the future, once you've finished with this...thing): So he/she likes me... But - WHAT! likes me? See the nutshelled difference? Out of her league, WT, out of her piddly little stunted league. Not least because you have been turning into an adult. She has not. And now it really, REALLY, shows. Unignorable. "Could be true" Uh-huh. And the Pope could be a Jew. Wanna bet 10 Euros it's not - or come the time WON'T be? "- especially in view of what I've just opened with (hadn't read ahead!), but she obviously wanted the extra pay or something...not that you would have wanted to see her at work, obviously, but you could have seen her one evening outside of her working hours, surely - especially in light of the fact she's the one effectively said she OWED you so, you'd think, couldn't AFFORD not to *make* time for you, or at least give some concrete, near-future date. Did she? Let's see." Hhhmm i don't know exactly how it works... But right now she's working two jobs" Says she. "... she's a dancer and recently she got a job as a teacher." Says she. "When she got it she told me that there was no way she would accept it, because she would have no time for school. Guess what she did? Yeah... I think I've mentioned this before, she has told me before she she's thinking of quitting and becoming a dancer there full time. She told me "I won't do it though, cause my parents are paying for me to study and im not gonna waste all their money" Since when did SHE care about wasting their money? What a crock. The dancer bit is ollocks. "Also her parents are not talking to her?! Cause she told them she wants to drop out of school and become a dancer? (She doesn't mean that she just told them to get their reactions) I can actually see that happening though, cause she's not doing well in school at all. That was probably insane to read lol, sorry" "Remember this? It's from October and already becoming reality lol" Yup. "After all, if you were her or anyone else, wouldn't YOU be thrilled to have someone like you as your bessie?" "Oh my god this!!!" Haha! ("Will someone fetch a ladder?" :D) "I just wish someone would put as much effort in me as i put in them." Well, you'd have to MEET them, first?! YOU? You've been surrounded by bloody narcs and their victims and Flying Monkeys for too long! Can you see that now? And who trained you to tolerate (not react full-force, properly, appropriately to) bad and inadequate behaviour of the nature that makes you feel wholly unimportant, uninteresting, taken for granted, unloveable, etc., etc? Granted, it's hard when you're young because you're very dependent, reliant and constrained in that regard. But you're an adult now so you're FREEEEEE! Like this (remember this?)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl4FO9SQevU Indeed, you are free. To find all the new hobbies and interests you can, and meanwhile, get all of your ducks in a row, ready for that brilliant career, and meanwhile, to finish morphing into a finished article adult (your front lobes don't finish cooking until you're 25). And then you will be completely and utterly available but not that fussed - happy either way because you have someone constantly 24/7 to play with and she's YOU! And that's what F1 will NEVER....EVER... be able to do: make friends, get to know, get to really enjoy being alone with, herself. She's been acting this 'TV' character for so long that, she, the actress, doesn't even remember who she, the actress, is, let alone, know herself and what solitary pursuits she enjoys doing (etc.). And that's why she and types like her, need someone constantly On-Call. They NEED people yet can't benefit from people.... Perpetually starving but can't eat and/or keep the food down. If Best Friends or even just Good Friends the world over typically show their Friend how much they and their Friendship mean to them by celebrating their Birth DAY with them (or nearest damnit) then - What would you call someone who doesn't? "Remember the reason this whole drama happened? That she came over, sceduled with everyone else, left me last and told me to meet her at six, and i couldn't, cause i had class?" Yip! "I was actually ready to drop class, get on a bus for 30 minutes and see her. But i stopped myself, cause i thought: would she do something like that for me? Obviously not. So I didn't do it." Come closer...... No - closer...... MMMMMMMMMMMMWA!!! (On your cheek before you ask lol) 10 FOOOOOT HIIIIIIGH GOOOOLD STAR! ....THUH.....*LUP*! I mean it - sodding well done, mate. (LOOK, EVERYBODY!!! :)))))))))))

PS: Got Son for Xmas but we don't want to go out like last time, we want to slob-out together, which will probably on-off feature sitting alongside on our laptops so, I can log-on this year and check if anyone needs company. See whether a miracle happens with F1 in terms of her concretedly pre-booking you ahead for specific days/times including venues, but if, as I foresee, she thinks she can call you without occasion-appropriate notice or worse - only a day beforehand - feel free to say you can't because you made cough-ACTUAL plans with another friend, and meet me here. I'll keep an eye out. We can have a drinkie together and swap silly memes. LiveToTell and anyone else can join in. I'll do a Lonely At Xmas Thread. Actually, no I wont. I'll do an Alone At Xmas Thread. Cos, if we think about it, Lonely means you feel no-one cares about you (which isn't ever true with so many other Empaths around, UNLESS you're surrounded by narcs & co. and no 'straight healthies' for miles). I'll call it the Christmas Pub Thread - there we go. :) We can get tiddly and swap jokes, memes, chat about the world, current affairs, swap fascinating facts, hilarious YouTube clips, get deep n philosophical one minute and playfully silly the next, and see who else drops in. Talking of utterly hilarious clips: Oh....My....GOD! Helps that the kitty was fine afterwards, but - this YouTube Short has me gaffawing my face off every time! See if it does the same to you: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tDOeCa5rJYA PS: I see you've a second post but I haven't even had my supper yet and it's 3am, PMSL! Where has the day gone? Where'd it go??? Will have time for it tomorrow though. Failing that (in case it's a "Grough" day), Friday evening.

Parte Deux... "Also!" (Wheeeeee!....Pop!.....Bang!) (fireworks haha) "Let me tell about my friend situation recently." Okay, then! Haha "I've been talking to this girl literally since the first day of first year in uni, cause we randomly sat together. She was the only person i talked to in uni for a long time and i value her a lot for that. The thing is, and it's going to be mean, that she BORES me." Aw, well that's no good. "We never do anything, she doesn't even want to go outside the classroom during breaks, we don't really hangout outside uni, cause she lives in another city. She is extremely driven when it comes to uni to the point it looks like she doesn't care about anything other than her grades." Sure she's not AI? Look for a panel at the back. :D "I've caught her lying about stuff before, like her uni entrance exam scores. She doesn't tell me what her grades are, and she doesn't want give notes to anyone to except for me. She once refused to give notes to me too, because she said "it will look like we're copying eachother" which is extremely weird because first that's just not true and second noone gives a shit about that." Oh. OH. She has Biggish Shoes (say it fast). Over-competitive, maybe. Well, she sounds too straight-laced for you, regardless. "Soo this semester i have started hanging out with another friend group." Ah! "(It's 4 girls and one guy)" Lucky guy! "I really want to be part of said friend group but i just don't know how to include myself. We only talk in uni, I'm not part of the group chat, or the hangouts or anything. I don't know how to make that happen" Nor do I without more information. Go into great detail for me (when you get a mo, no presh from me as usual). "and i don't want to seem too desperate." What about Keen? That's okay, yes? "The other thing is, the girl i mentioned before, doesn't talk to these people(except one girl). She doesn't really talk to anyone else other than me and her and i don't want to leave her alone." UH-OH - GUILTITIS! Why don't you? "Like, they might tell me to go sit with them, and i tell them no, because i always sit with her and she only wants to sit in the front of the class." Then isn't she passively Isolating you? Uck that for a game of soldiers! "I really don't want to look like im abandoning her, but i feel like she's holding me back." Why - is she your daughter? She doesn't even sound like she's that keen on your friendships so - this is about you and your Social Responsibility and Loyalty dials being turned-up too high. Was this a feature when you first became friends with F1, by any chance? You shouldn't take responsibility for other people's feelings just because they themselves refuse to. But there's an easy compromise to be had, whereby you don't lose either 'camp'. Got any idea what that is?

(Oh, boy - you must be GAGGING for a baby already!....and making people your practise dummies, I reckon, LOL. Do you come from a big family yourself?)

PS: ""Like, they might tell me to go sit with them, and i tell them no, because i always sit with her and she only wants to sit in the front of the class." Then isn't she passively Isolating you? Uck that for a game of soldiers! " They always want to keep you all to themselves...to POSSESS you. Had you noticed?