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Jealous of best friend

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Ok so im 18 years old and recently my best friend- or my only friend moved away. I stayed at our hometown with my parents even though i wanted to leave but we couldn't afford that. I was initially jealous because of that but i got over it quickly. Anyways, my main concern right now is that i feel like i am missing out on life. I go to uni but i havent really met anyone i like. I have people to talk to there most of the time but no friends. On the other hand, my friend is friends with half her uni and living her best life while i am doing nothing. Im just afraid because she is moving on with her life and im stuck in the same place. Plus all the people i talked to in high school suddenly forgot i exist so i have literally noone to go out with. I am very happy that my friend is living the life she wanted but it still hurts to know that i probably never will. I guess iam not really jealous but just sad. An other thing that i am really concerned about is that i have never experienced anything romantic- nothing at all noone has ever liked me or anything. I havent even had my first kiss yet(which is something iam very insecure about).On the other hand, my friend has always been an absolute magnet for guys- everywhere she goes she gets hit on. Now that she moved she met this guy and she was talking about all the things he says to her. I couldn't even be happy for her because all i was thinking about is that i will never experience something like that. I know that i sound like a shit person right now but its not like i will ever try to bring her down- i absolutely love her. It just feel like iam drowning in my own misery too much to be happy for someone else. So a question ( preferably for older girls) do you think that there is a fixed- normal age for you to experience things like your first kiss? Also do you think that there is something wrong with me? Because i have received zero romantic attention I am very shy but super approachable also iam good looking(or at least people say so) so why the fuck is this happening to me Thanks for reading if you reached here lol

Jealous of best friend

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Message to you and all other Original Posters waiting as if in a 'queue': Hi and welcome! Sorry for the delay from any regular respondents, but as you can tell, we're very thin on the ground/swamped in RL, at the mo. I personally can be with you tomorrow evening or Sunday (day off). Notwithstanding - meanwhile, feel free to respond to the other posters waiting alongside you, and at the same time, to ask them if they could give their opinion or feedback on yours. This, in actual fact, is how this 'old-fashioned' forum is supposed to work. It's that, or, if you can, to have to keep waiting a bit longer for myself or any other regulars to have a respectfully-decent window for you? ORRRR....how's about - get BOTH! :)

Jealous of best friend

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I'm 21 a female and experienced that same FOMO. Even worse cuz we were in the scamdemic when I graduated high school and everything was closed. Most kids my age were just stuck at home, shitposting online and going insane from boredom. I assume the same happened to you during that time. The only people that seemed like they did have a life were the peers that went off to university. They got to move out and live among peers their age, throw parties despite covid. Meanwhile kids like me just worked at a shit job and/or stayed at home and.. rotted. So, you're correct. You are missing out. Your college friends are having a great time while you're rotting at home. Welcome to the real world, it's about to be a shit show.

Jealous of best friend

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But if it makes you feel any better.. in 3-4 years, that "great time" your college friends are having will come to an end and a lot of them will be in the same position as you. Living with their parents and working a shit job. I had a friend that shamed me for not taking school serious, he went to a university in California. He came back to live with his parents this year because his anxiety was too bad, now he's working as a delivery driver for Amazon. Sooo.. yeah. A lot of your peers are going to school just to be in the same position as you, but with massive debt on their head. Woohoo! That being said, you're only 18. You should consider going to college or get some type of higher education just so you can learn/grow as a person, be around peers your age. Find a college that isn't going to financially wreck you. Yeah college isn't necessary, but degrees will give you a better chance with job security. And going straight into the real world isn't a walk in the park. It actually fucking sucks. There's ways to make big money like real estate, sales, business n whatnot but all of these things come with a catch. It's not a walk in the park and definitely not stable for most people.

Jealous of best friend

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I'm tryna help you, I don't want you to be in the same position as me right now. Gain your independence right now. Get your drivers license, a car, a job, go to school, build a tight knit community of reliable friends. Try to form real, genuine relationships. Those friends you had in high school.. hate to break it to you, but a lot of them aren't really your friends anymore. Give them the benefit of the doubt though. They might be busy. Try to reconnect with them, but if they aren't interested you just have to let it go.

Jealous of best friend

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Oh I misread that you do go to university.. Well just join clubs and talk to people then. A lot of your peers are there for the same reason, to make new friends. As for the first kiss thing.. normally kids get that from 12-15 but honestly it doesn't matter. If you're attractive then you probably do have guys asking you out, you just don't want them or you're too shy to talk to guys you actually want. Shyness, I can't really help with. I got the same issue. The only "cure" for shyness is taking yourself out of your comfort zone n starting convos with people. You could try embarrassing yourself in public. Like bark in the streets or say weird things to strangers. It'll get you weird looks, but then you'll see how most people forget about it and move on immediately. Then you subconsciously realize that things aren't that serious n you will become less shy overtime. Relationships are complicated tho. I'm still figuring it out. But if you're trying to get is a first kiss, I mean.. you're at a university. Go to a party, dress really nice and talk to a cute guy lol

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Dude I'm telling you right now, in terms of dating you got it EASY. High school and university are these nice little social oasis's for young people. PERFECT for finding a boyfriend/girlfriend. I know it's easier said than done but just approach a guy if you really need to. A simple "Hi, how are you?" "I like your shoes" "What's your major?" will do the trick. The worst they can do is reject/ignore you, but they probably won't.

Jealous of best friend

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Thanks for responding amd being so real with me lol. In terms of the dating thing, i dont even want to date anyone, i guess i just want validation from someone because i am so behind in this field. I have asked people about this before-like why am i not getting any action and they said its because I never make the first move. So i was like ok, next time i like someone im just gonna do it. So last year, there was this girl from school that I liked(im bi) and i knew she liked girls. During a schooltrip we came kinda close and she asked me if i was gay, so my idiot self though she was interested. Right after the school trip i straight up confessed to her, only to be brutally ghosted. The worst part is that i saw her every day at school and the embarrassment i experienced was next level. Like, she completely stopped talking to me and turned her head around every time i looked at her. Im pretty sure she told all her friends too, because they started asking me some weird ass questions. So i had to live out the rest of the school year in complete shame. Because of that, i was like- im never experiencing this kind of embarrassment again. If anyone wants to get with me, they just have to say something first. Well, a year later and that just hasn't happened yet. This got me wondering if there is something seriously wrong with me. As i mentioned, my best friend has always been a magnet for guys-and she never even tries. So i was like- what does she have that I don't (she's not much prettier than me). This kind of started making me jealous but not in a bad way where i would try to bring her down. Im always supporting but i feel so bitter every time she talks about all the guys that hit on her. Last night she was talking about this guy and the amazing romance that they have and i was like- how the fuck does this actually happen to people?

Jealous of best friend

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"Well just join clubs and talk to people then. A lot of your peers are there for the same reason, to make new friends." The only clubs we have are theatre and dance and im shit at both these things. I havent "clicked" with anyone from uni yet, at first i was alright with that, but it's been six months now and im starting to get worried. I have talked to people but i have this kind of sarcastic and ironic sense of humor and they just...dont get it. I also curse a lot and someone told me- i dont like it when people talk like that... I was extremely surprised, like am not going to change the way i talk for you. Im just afraid to be myself in case i come out as strange and im not having a good time when im not being myself.

Jealous of best friend

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It's time to stop the self comparison then. Does your "friend" ever make snarky/passive aggressive comments about you? Why do you feel this way? You don't really know what goes on behind closed doors for her. You don't know why she gets all these guys or crazy love stories. She could be desperate or exaggerating, you wouldn't know. Or maybe her life really is that crazy. Maybe she is the ultimate man magnet. But who cares? That has nothing to do with you. If you are seeking a girlfriend, honestly that will naturally be harder than finding a boyfriend. Simply on the fact that women have more standards... But also, finding a girl that isn't wishy washy might be a challenge. Like the girl you were talking to in the past who just ghosted you for no reason. There's sooo many stories like that especially with "bisexual" girls. Not invaliding or stereotyping, but you will probably come across that situation a lot esp if it's somebody that just found out they're gay or didn't come out yet Don't let THAT one rejection stop you from finding somebody else. You're going to get rejected n embarrassed in life btw, that's just how it goes. Try to build a thicker skin on that typa thing (that's why I suggested saying weird things to strangers, like how people do in YouTube pranks/social experiments)

Jealous of best friend

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What kind of university do you go to? Is it like a theater/arts type of school? Maybe get into sports? Tennis?

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You are soo right about the comparison thing. I know that its super wrong but i honestly can't help it sometimes. She also has admitted to "exaggerating" stuff and and she used to lie about things that never happened in the past, but i think that we got over that. Honestly, i always thought that getting a girl would be easier only because my country is conservative and there aren't that many people out, meaning they dont have many options. But i guess my experience with that girl grounded me lol. Its a lot harder than i thought. We don't have specific kinds of universities in my country, its like one for everything.

Jealous of best friend

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Well, of COURSE you haven't clicked with anyone yet - you're GRIEVING - for your friendship! But- on GOOD days - what about the people who already talk with you? Couldn't you make something out of it, like say how interesting to talk to you find them, do they fancy meeting for a drink some time soon and continuing the conversation? OR get onto the topic of books you both enjoy...recommend one - one you've already got - and lend it to them. But for now, you're grieving. Nav knows what that's like so - keep chatting, that'll fill a lot of the loneliness gap and improve your mood whereby maybe it'll help put a little 'smile on your face' (because I bet you're not smiling at people, lately, or holding your head high - if shyly). ALSO...you don't know that Fate doesn't want it this way. Maybe you're unwittingly headed for a stroke of luck because you're meant to get your career established BEFORE you use precious time dating and thinking about someone? There's no 'normally' these days. But a good life tenet is this: Work First, THEN Play. Carry on you two. :) Oh, and WT51, DO check out Nav's story on her thread. If you can imagine being in her place, it's pretty Wowzers.

Jealous of best friend

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Also check out Jae and post a comment if you like? :) If you're going to stick around, you may as well say Howdy to the other regulars.

Jealous of best friend

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PS: Tsk! Stop being so melodramatic, the pair of you, jeez, LOL... Life doesn't suck, full-stop. It's a rollercoaster. So it sucks....then it's brill....then it sucks again....brill....sucks.... and sometimes you can get brill and sucks simultaneously (I guess that would be the Loop-The-Loop bit?)....and at least once, there might be a tunnel...but then when you come out of it - an amazing, panoramic birds-eye view....and back to sucks/brill/sucks/brill.... (Whether it happens at large intervals or more like in rapid succession depends entirely on how fast you move and how wide an area you cover.) It's least Life is not boring. Trust me.....I've done boring. And it was boring. (Laughs at own joke)

Jealous of best friend

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Thank you so much for responding! Im gonna try to be more optimistic, sure. Im only eighteen after all (The people who keep saying that these are the best years of my life arent helping though馃槄) Also, how do i check someone's thread? I have no idea how this works.

Jealous of best friend

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They're the most FERTILE years for planting stuff. Usually. But, as I say, usual and stage-related progress don't apply since Brexit then Covid. And since 49 became the new 30, and so on, you've got time to be late blossomers, your Genzeration (see what I did there? :D) No hurry. Just go with your own flow. It was the Tortoise that won, anyway, not the Hare. :) You're still preparing, limbering-up and revving up. You'll undoubtedly overtake your ex-friend. Hence the above parable exists and has survived so many eons! You'll certainly be more emotionally mature (the two things are linked, anyway). There's no Lose here. Just time to get to know yourself better, enjoy being in your own company, reading books, studying (with no distractions), amusing yourself, becoming your own bestie. It's when we're fascinated or having fun that we strike as optimally attractive to people. Then they're drawn to us because we look happy to with ourself, in our own skin (so we must be rather lovely). Reading hysterical comedy books is a good one...you'd be sat there in the common room, intermittently giggling; that always does it ("What you reading, what's so funny?"). But by all means be miz for a few more weeks, get it out of your system. How you visit other threads is by scrolling to the Green banner at the top of this page and clicking the drop-down menu labelled Forum, and sliding your cursor to Forum Index and clicking on it, and it'll take you to where you'll see every visitor and resident's recent Threads. It also features a way to search by Alias (you'd type NAV in capitals plus Enter/Carriage Return). Hope that helps? Any more technical questions, you want Green banner again - Support - Technical Support. Adios for now. :)

Jealous of best friend

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PS: just in case you have a problem - here's the link to NAV's thread: https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showtopic/13501/Im-in-debt-and-too-sick-to-work-like-a-normal-person-what-do-i-do#jumptotop But do try the way I said, first, to get familiar with how it all works.

Jealous of best friend

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Thank you so much for being so supportive! Im a go with the flow type of person anyways, although the flow hasn't been taking me anywhere great recently lol Also, my friend isn't an ex one. We still text almost every day and we meet whenever she visits. I got the technical stuff figured out,thanks for helping.

Jealous of best friend

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Just bumping you up!

Jealous of best friend

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"(The people who keep saying that these are the best years of my life arent helping though馃槄) " They used to be. Now your whole generation are having to write songs about the heavy limitations that Brexit and Covid brought upon us all, but especially you guys. I expect you wouldn't perhaps appreciaate how you're all together in this, considering you've been without a close friendship, but - check this out to see it is absolutely, definitely not just you; you lot are not even a minority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEJN7opj-QE So if it's not your friend you're grieving, maybe it's this aftershock period, causing you to grieve over what would and should have been awaiting you, had it not been for this unexpected, giant, ongoing blockade?

Jealous of best friend

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Thanks for the song- its beautiful! I guess a lot more people that i thought are going through the same thing "So if it's not your friend you're grieving, maybe it's this aftershock period, causing you to grieve over what would and should have been awaiting you, had it not been for this unexpected, giant, ongoing blockade?" I think its exactly like that. I always told myself that even with my best friend away i would meet new, cool people and have new experiences but literally nothing happened and im very scared that it will stay like this. I even lost all the rest of the friends that i had because i guess that they moved on, met new people- or maybe we were never even friends and i was the only one who thought we were.

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Isn't it. Says it all. You're not just 'not alone', though. You're the majority. (How she sings that without crying, I don't know!). Me, I feel terrible and really guilty on behalf of my whole generation. It's not you guys that are failing, it's we guys that failed you. Things should have been up-to-date functional BEFORE Brexit and Covid hit. Instead, all the procrastination and neglect got exposed. Everything's bloody crumbling. Not that it won't get rebuilt - this isn't the first economic crisis, by any means. In the 70s, the working week was shrunk to three days! Amd there were strikes galore. But in the meantime, it's you guys who are suffering most because you've got the most ambition and energy, ergo, the most frustration (it's directly proportionate). How are you at online/technology? Ever thought of starting up your own biz, now, ready for when you leave? Did you read Ingrid's post? She gave very good advice too: start sowing your post-grad seeds NOW. If this period is a giant Lemon, make Lemonade. Think of it like neing stuck in a lift and all you can do to amuse yourself and take your mind off things is to finally (FINALLY!) go through your photo album and start getting it in order, deleting and creating album files. Pessimists see danger in opportunity Optimists see opportunity in danger Realists are aware of both, know they haven't got time to fear either, so stop themseles thinking, make a quick calclation and just go for it (Nike!). One-Two-Three-JUMP! Feel the fear and do it anyway, it's known as. Once you've jumped, you kick yourself: what was I so scared about? It's like when you're in the mood for a really good party. It's usually pants. But the party you had to be dragged to, turned out to be a really good evening. (Remember your first jump off the local swimming-pool's highest diving-board? You did it and you were fine.) At your age, I used to practise striking up conversations with strangers on the train (particularly when it was stopped in a tunnel 'because of a leaf on the line' or whatnot) or at bus-stops...anywhere, really...like, going into pubs with a good book or newspaper (this was when I was new to Londond) Half the time - BECAUSE there was no pressure, it was just practise without worrying about the outcome - they'd surprise me by asking to swap numbers! And there you have it. Cease to care so you're relaxed and far less inhibited. And joining clubs may be a cliche, but that's because it works. Might take time to bond with your other clubmates, but - it'll happen. I don't think anyone feels Cool any more, to be honest. (And, yeah, I don't believe your friend, either.) Did you read Nav's thread yet?

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Do you want to talk about Little Miss Fibber? Methinks she - the type she is - could be part of your problem of why you're not radiating your usual level of attractiveness to people. (I mean, that was an impressive opening post for an 18-year-old.) Easily resolved if so, without needing to split or anything drastic. Want to spill? PS: 'Friends with half her Uni'. SMIRK. When does she find time to have a bath and wash her hair and clothes? Bit smelly, is she? What a crock. They're ACQUAINTANCES, people she can 'nod to'. And how ucking insensitive to crow at you when you're down. It's like you're starving and she's telling you she's surrounded by a banquet! I mean - WHAT? 'Friends'. Yeah, like Fakebook "friends". Take EVERYTHING she says, now, with a huge pinch of salt and if you want to 'cash in on it' by amusing yourself, go OTT with the congratulations - Ow, WOW, that's AMAZING, well done YOU (while in your head, you're thinking, you lying cow, how stupid are you to think I'm stupid!). Maybe more a competitor than a friend, huh. Still, it's flattering to know she's constantly comparing herself to you. ('Every cloud...')

Jealous of best friend

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Hello! Sorry for responding so late but i never got a notification. In the meantime,i have been trying to make the best of my situation by studying as much i could (since i have nothing else to do) and i actually passed all of my exams! ''Ever thought of starting up your own biz, now, ready for when you leave?'' Actually, me and my mom have been running a small business since last summer and its going good, so i do have something to keep me occupied. ''And how ucking insensitive to crow at you when you're down. It's like you're starving and she's telling you she's surrounded by a banquet! I mean - WHAT?'' Omg that is exactly what bothered me the most! Especially in the beginning, she would text me crying about how she doesn't like her new friends (she knew them for a week) and about how she would end up alone, when we both damn knew that would never happen, while being very aware of my situation. On the other hand, i have never whined to her about being literally alone, because i was always afraid i would be annoying. Unfortunately or not, she is absolutely telling the truth about most things. I know her probably better than anyone, and she is extremely charismatic. People just naturally trust her, and her social skills are seriously unmatched. Im telling you, that girl is gifted. Andd im the exact opposite. We have been best friends for 6 years now and have never been through a crisis before. The reason why i love her so much is that even though she always had like a hundred friends, she always chose me first. The reason why i had any friends other than her in highschool was because if anyone wanted to be around her, they inevitably had to be around me too. But when she moved away, i realised im nothing without her. I know that its extremely dramatic, but its just how i feel.

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Hi again, No need to apologise to me about showing-up late - I'm far worse these days! Anyway, it's your thread, you can post as often or languidly as you like. Best to take time in between anyway - I shove a hell of a lot of info into each post so there's a lot of absorbing, cross-referencing and editing needs to happen in your existing 'mental filing system'. Methinks, however, I've spotted some misguided thinking on your part (marked with **) so - allow me... _______________________________ "In the meantime,i have been trying to make the best of my situation by studying as much i could (since i have nothing else to do) and i actually passed all of my exams!" Fan-bloody-tastic - what can I say? And under this upsetting climate too. Very impressive - WELL DONE, YOU, keep it up! (That's a brilliant, rare skill (especially these Insta days), being able to retain and organise information like that, under-fire of loneliness and no doubt off-shoot Anxiety; it'll see you in fantastic stead in your future career. ''Ever thought of starting up your own biz, now, ready for when you leave?'' Actually, me and my mom have been running a small business since last summer and its going good, so i do have something to keep me occupied." Refer to above! What is it, if you don't mind my asking? FYI, Lily31/Parents Splitting Up started a biz with her mum, it's going really well. You can always trust your mum...takes a lot of worry out of it. And anyway, you're AT that age, now, where you and she become more like best friends. This is all good prep, in fact, so I'm wondering if Fate's designed things to be this way for you - so that you CAN'T be distracted from what's important (honestly, the time goes sooo quickly and any friendships rarely survive after Uni - my son is testament to that. He and his old crowd have all steadily 'peeled off', so it's actually good thing, given everything else you've got going, isn't it. 'Fate moves in mysterious ways'...but shame it can't send us a memo beforehand, eh, so that we didn't naturally assume something was wrong rather than As It Secretly Needs To Be. "''And how ucking insensitive to crow at you when you're down. It's like you're starving and she's telling you she's surrounded by a banquet! I mean - WHAT?'' Omg that is exactly what bothered me the most! Especially in the beginning, she would text me crying about how she doesn't like her new friends (she knew them for a week) and about how she would end up alone, when we both damn knew that would never happen, while being very aware of my situation. On the other hand, i have never whined to her about being literally alone, because i was always afraid i would be annoying." It's what bothered me the most, too. It's known as "*I'm* alright, Jack!". VERY thoughtless and not just a tad egotistical as well. Me, I think she was trying to undo her loss of pride in front of you during her first week. But that's not what you do with long-term friends: you're supposed to feel capable of telling each other everything and anything. Are you an Only Child? You sound very nice, I must say. Oh, well, take what you need from that friendship and disregard the rest. At least you can use her as your pit-stop in between studying like a mad thing. I started two little 'cottage' businesses around your age, as well, when I moved out of London, back to my Home County to lodge with my parents, while looking for a rental. In the daytime I was a freelance recruitment agent and in the late avo/evenings, made very arty, unique and innovative, silver and gold earrings (in the days when selling for cash was still possible). My mother got into making them with me as well..then my father (artisticness in the family)....all three of us would be sat round the telly with the silver wire, beads, links, cabochons, pliars, having a ball. I'd sell our wares at all the pubs and hotels in my area...made an absolute killing as I started in the run-up to Xmas and ended up with masses of regular customers. What with the freelancer-supplying as well, I was making well over a thousand pounds per week - cash. Put virtually all of it into savings, after buying myself my first car (you driving yet?). Haah...those were the days.... lol. So, REALLY, I'm of the opinion that these early years, when you HAVE all that easily-renewable energy and enthusiasm (which does NOT...LAST...you start being unable to get to bed late, and really feeling the hangovers, from about 25 (OH YES...drip-drip-drip/tick-tick-tick) - that, *precisely* what you're doing/being forced by Fate to do, is the very best thing you COULD be doing. Then you'll be qualified, if you like, for friendships...proper ones...and will automatically choose accordingly. Because close friendships do require a surprising lot of upkeep; plus, it's proven now: there's no such thing as multi-tasking, just task-depriving (of attention), whereby nothing really gets done *properly and dedicatedly* and, trust me: above all else - at your age/stage - Dedication (better yet, obsession) is always-always what you need for this life. You don't want to be a workaholic when it's mating/sprogging time (30-ish) or you'll end up divorced ten or so years later.... (...how does it go?... For her He climbed the highest mountains Swam the deepest seas Crossed the widest deserts. She divorced him Because he was never at home. :D) So yes...study yourself silly. The time will speed past and, since most friendships are destined to dissolve post-Uni (even just people moving away for work/cheat rent reasons), you'll lose nothing compared to what you'll have gained: made hay while the sun shone. And you'll have a car to cart yourself and your new friends around to "gatherings" n stuff. The very sociable types, however, probably not so much...too much sitting-around-chatting and making Daisy-chains when they should have been making hay. You'll definitely have 'the last laugh'. And not many people your age know that so - somebody 'up there' obviously likes you and is guiding you. (Any ideas who? A late fave granny or something?) "Unfortunately or not, she is absolutely telling the truth about most things. I know her probably better than anyone, and she is extremely charismatic." Oh, REALLY? Extremely charismatic?...plus highly insensitive?, self-aggrandising?, pumping-up her ego by comparing herself to you and coming away feeling superior (crowing) as leaves you emptier than before? "Hmmmm...". Proceed with caution. Those are all very selfish and self-centred settings/attitudes. She could be quite high on the Normal Person narcissistic scale, which means, innately insecure/envious/coveting. But, regardless, even fairly little kids now that if your friend says, "I feel glum", you DON'T respond with tantamount to, 'Really? I FEEL GREAT!'. Bit of a Red Flag so just, as I say, try not to automatically trust everything she says (unless you see evidence for yourself). "People just naturally trust her, and her social skills are seriously unmatched. Im telling you, that girl is gifted." People tend to insta-trust her, as well, do they? Okayyyyyy.... And yet, with YOU, she's socially inept? HOW DOES THAT WORK? It doesn't. Those two do NOT go together! ***Red-Flag-Red-Flag - huge pinches of salt required!*** Never mind. Soon as you've got that biz running like clockwork and have quals coming out of your ears, your confidence will SHOOT up and you'll find people starting to swarm to you like minor bees that need a leader type (which you clearly are - actions, actions). "Andd im the exact opposite." GOOD! THANK UCK FOR THAT! It's called Genuine. You're JUST lacking confidence at this stage. Almost ALL students feel like you, regardless of whatever it is in their environment they mistake as being to blame. A LOT of it is your hormones, still. "We have been best friends for 6 years now and have never been through a crisis before." I've had friends for TEN years that seemed fine and then suddenly 'came out of the closet'. Just any pressure. Anyway...charming people - sorry, people PRETENDING to be a naturally charming type - the Covert Narcissists or overly narcissistic, tend not to be capable of hanging onto lasting friendships/relationships. ALL of those types tend to be charming yet insensitive (to the point of cruel) (- tick!). Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but: (1) Daily life is very different now, so much harder and 'desolate'-feeling, especially for your agegroup, and pressure does NOT sit well on a Narc, meaning, out they slither. Start keeping a diary of ANYTHING odd/upsetting/insulting she says or does - and start it from the first time you really noticed that extra-special kind of "Ouch (that wasn't very nice)" feeling. Make it three columns - Nice...Neutral...Nasty. See how crowded that list gets. I suspect you'll end up very shocked and surprised. But...please do prove me wrong. (2) So many MORE of your generation 'wear' Narc-Specs these days. She MAY find that her charms - or what comes soon after - are starting to ....wait for it because I know this won't have occurred to you....WEAR THIN OR PUT PEOPLE OFF AFTER 'FIVE MINUTES'. Did you think of that? Because that's what's starting to happen. The more instantly-charming one is, the more other people give you a wide berth until your consistent run of all-round actions and behaviour prove one is NATURALLY charming (and not at all selfish, spiteful, out to 'mug' your confidence off you, etc.). (So now you understand why I typed GOOD, THANK UCK FOR THAT, yeh? Don't worry, therefore. The Shy/Sincere/Deeply Thoughtful types are coming back into fashion. :) In fact, this timing of everything is practically perfect, isn't it?) On the other hand: If you're right in believing she's (these days, still) consistently nicer and more beneficial to your peace-of-mind and contentedness/safety/security than not, you'll be left feeling markedly better. If I'm right - you'll be left feeling a bit shite (not much, given the 'distance' of late) but, afterwards, better than ever...clearer...lighter....PROBABLY 'STRANGELY' MORE ATTRACTIVE TO OTHER PEOPLE (cough!, just saying....but, actually, it's how it works when your friend pulls or keeps you down). **This is the mis-think I mentioned. Smacked me clean between the eyes, it did (typical mistake at your age): "The reason why i love her so much is that even though she always had like a hundred friends, ((A Hundred....HAHAHAHAHA!!)) she always chose me first. The reason why i had any friends other than her in highschool was because if anyone wanted to be around her, they inevitably had to be around me too. But when she moved away, i realised im nothing without her. I know that its extremely dramatic, but its just how i feel." Yoooou 'nana. Oh, she and the situation have done a GREAT number on you, haven't they. Wow. No, cherub, it's like this: Sure, she was initially charming, and a laugh/fun. But she had a serious down side. Which YOUR PRESENCE - THE BLEND OF YOU WITH HER - MADE HER TOLERABLE. Like over-strong, bitter coffee. You were the sugar and cream. Get it? And I know that because I like and rate you a lot already - and all from just two piddly posts. WAKEY-WAKEY. Nope. Nope-nope-nope: the admission that she lacked friends suddenly, was true. At that point, she was too low for pride to get a look in (she must have been on the floor!). But, all too soon, her ego kicked back into puffed-up-ness, meaning, she couldn't take having made herself that vulnerable to you...the thought was making her cringe. So what did she do? What they all do: lied that everything was suddenly transformed for the better. HEARD IT ALL BEFORE, you see. I've BEEN friends with 'her'. Known friends who've been friends with her before. Read about friends like her. Seriously...do that 3-column list...check whether her Light Side far outweighs her Dark (or even Dark plus Neutral). THESE DAYS, taken into account with anything that now, newly strikes you as Iffy under this new 'dark light' I've shone for you over your evidence table. You can write it here if you like? Or I can help you categorise anything you're not sure about? The point of knowing her dark-light ratio is so that I can advise you of precisely how much 'arms's length' to maintain her from you, whereby you get the benefits but none of the kicks and punches. Plan, Stan? (You're pretty ucking fantastic for 18, you know.) (No. You *don't* know.) (You will. :))

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PS: forgot to mention: Coverts are likened to (Everyday) Psychopaths in that they can dupe you into believing wholeheartedly they're basically a good'un and 'just a bit hurtful', 'just a bit careless/insensitive a lot', 'just a bit Me-Me-Me', just a bit INEPT - WHEN IT COMES ONLY TO YOU. They either isolate you before feeding off you OR you isolate them for them (reclusive type) OR circumstances leave you isolated (tick). However, even in the latter case, yours, there is STILL that highly 'sense-able' Narc Effect on you (you end up with a face like a wet weekend, all nervy and background hurting from the latest disguised snipe or backhanded compliment...all the really really petty stuff but LOTS OF IT. In application, it always feels like they're NEVER...Q...UITE BAD ENOUGH....to fire. Unlike Narcissistic Sociopaths, your straight Coverts and Covert Vulnerables (who can pretend to be down/hurt - in order to get YOU to spill, NOTE-COUGH!, so that they can fashion their insults around the sore nerves you've revealed, NOTE-COUGH!) can go for DECADES, pretending to be a bit this/that/this negative but 'REALLY, he/she isn't THAT bad...I don't think'. They're the ones Discarding/getting chucked at over 50 and 60-years-old (although, note that Discarding is actually them getting in there first, the minute they sense the change in you - "Hit Or Be Hit" is their main mantra, all types). Oh yeah they are (bad enough). Or how come you're not radiating in a way that attracts people any more, despite she was the Addictor and you were the Super-Comfy Chair that made it SAFE for them to continue hanging around her. How come you were so Blue and mentioning her involvement? How come it took me to point out her emotional attack, there? SEE? You just aren't wearing the specialist-tinted specs - and why WOULD you be, when you've got so much on your mind? You see? That's just the 'involvement' of hers, out of the total Covert bags of tricks, that you DID FEEL but couldn't articulate. (It's sooo frustrating not being able to see and point to the evidence and understand completely, WHY your life and once-popularity has started to wane. Capiche? It's not called Covert/Hidden, for nothing. It's harder thinky-dinky time. Or that list. Oh, GO ON - do the list. I really-really want you to do a list. Even if just to eliminate her from the enquiry. I suspect this is going to be mightily, eye-openly helpful to many readers present and future. You can say no, though, I can take it, LOL. :) But she is definitely without-question worth a more thorough frisk. Even if all she is is too immature, now, for you.

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PS: "On the other hand, i have never whined to her about being literally alone, because i was always afraid i would be annoying."" That was yet another, characteristic, Scooby Clue. With a true, lasting (i.e. morals-matching) friendship, you NEVER feel afraid to confide/whine/whinge/cry with them. Never. BECAUSE THEY NEVER WOULD BE - it flies in the face of the first definition of Friendship (each other's Rock!). So that (COUGH!) "Walking On Eggshells" - especially where concerns, whether/how/when/if to Approach so as to avoid (COUGH!) annoying them - is where I would send you, interweb-wise, RIGHT now. You'll see. NEVER. Well, maybe once...on a really bad day. But if you say/show you don't like it, they don't tend to make that antisocial mistake again. Better yet - don't tend to make it IN THE FIRST PLACE. Getting it even more?

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Anyway (sorry - cooking, flitting back and forth) - at your age, they don't even have to be narc-ish or NPD to realise you're drifting apart. Some friends are just put on for you by Fate/"the universe"/god/nature as Stepping Stones. Usually, their example is the path that leads you to the keepers. It's impossible to get them to bond with you properly - so "Devaluing" (tick!) then "Discarding" you (whether real or faked for power-leverage reasons), for them can be like selling/trading-in their car (sad for all of 5 mins). If you're not operating as you were used to doing, in any one important zone of your life based on your nature (- unfettered/un-laden), however - this case, noteably, *socially* - then, usually, it IS another person behind it. That's purely logical if you think about it. Another HUUUUGE clue I spotted (I haven't told you everything - we'd be here all day!): You KNEW your "whinging" wouldn't be welcome, even BEFORE you entered a phase that demanded having lots of whinges with a bestie. Speaks volumes, matey. Unless you DID try once and got somehow, subtly "punished" or "not rewarded)? Usually it does take an example incident. But if you know even without making a first attempt? Time to shuffle backwards and try to read more about narcissism (AND immature friends with low eQ) to identify her before you think about shuffling back. Alternatively, search "Am I in the wrong - should I apologise?" by Heisenberg. His started as an online friendship with the offending woman concerned. Lots of web-info in there that I posted for him, and lots of "things occurring to him, all-of-a-sudden". And YEP, she was/is a Covert. They are sooooo subtle...atomic....silent-but-deadly....not even mainly with their mouths - it's what they FAIL to do as much as do. Furtive and insideous. All with a friendly smile or "haha, just joking" (as a cover for wounding) or "just being honest" (as a cover for cruel). Really, really slippery and hard to pin down. And bitty-bitty-petty, as I say. Google "Covert Narcissist - Death By A Thousand Cuts". You will feel SO RELIEVED if you do 'see' her. You'll realise there's nothing wrong with you whatsoever. Except for HER EFFECT. (My friends and I call them Human Covid/Long Covid.)

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Correction: "But, regardless, even fairly little kids now that if your friend says, "I feel glum", you DON'T respond with tantamount to, 'Really? I FEEL GREAT!'" Nor do you if you can (which a good friend can) *merely detect* your friend is feeling glum (or even just out-of-sorts). Are you starting to see how the thigh bone is connected to the pelvic bone, etc., now? I cannot believe that all this time, she's had you convinced (including through others) that SHE was the star of your duo. What's SHE got to show for it, then? Has she started a biz, has she? Has she passed all her exams, has she? FIRST WEEK OF UNI AND SHE FULLY EXPECTED TO HAVE PEOPLE FLOCK TO HER LIKE THEY USED TO. FIRST WEEK OF UNI. How unrealistic is THAT! ("...to-the....Hip-bone..."). You see? ...'we'd be here ALL DAY'. (I swim all the way down to the bottom of the abyss, I duz. You'd be surprised what crud you find down there.)

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PPPPPPPPPPPS! Thinking about it - you're busy studying. So here's Heisenberg's thread link. Ignore what TYPE of relationship it is. They're basically a one-trick pony no matter what the relational or role-based nature of the duo/group. https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showtopic/13160/am-i-in-the-wrong-here-should-i-apologise (While I was at it - I gave your room a quick tidy as well) (hur-hur)

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Basically, with coverts, you can only ever say, I thought I knew her better than anyone. Until I realised, I didn't. Unfortunately, it's usually in hindsight (or if you linger too long and your tolerance bucket alerts you by overflowing without-warning), or someone in-the-know opening your eyes by lending you their "dark specs". For that reason, Coverts/Covert-Vulnerables are the worst. A far longer "waste" of time and energy. Bloody years. (Oh, and n-spaths start off consistently Covert, too, for a good two years or so, before letting their monstrous selves all hang out.) Six years, thinking she's wonderful and she's your friend YET YOU AREN'T EXPERIENCING THE POSITIVE SNOWBALL EFFECT like you should ("somehow-suddenly" making a second and third) (it's called the Confidence To - that's what attracts first...and the rest is because you're loveable and bondable-to). Zat iss NOT hhow idt nor-mmally VERKS, mein Leib-ling. Ya? I'm coming back to the surface now (it's muddy down there, maan). Over to you again (at your leisure).

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I haven't read what you've written yet but something just happened and i HAVE to talk about it. She came back to town yesterday, and told me we should meet today and watch a movie together. This is all perfectly fine with me, i tell her yes and then today i let ger know that i have class from 8-9:30.(This is also the time when we usually meet). She didn't say anything in particular but i saw from her tone that she was bothered, probably because for her im always available, and she had definitely made other plans after. So she tells me to meet before my class, around 6, but i tell her 5 is better because i have to leave at 7:30 and we wouldn't have enough time. She says ok great. When its around four she says she'll came to my house because she didn't bring her laptop with her.(we almost always meet at her's) Im like ok sure but im panicking because my house is a huge mess and I haven't studied for my class yet. So i burst my ass to study and clean the entire house in less that thirty minutes, only to get a text like: ill came at 5:30 after all . At this point im seriously pissed off, because she has done this MANY TIMES. Plus she is always 10 minutes late minimum. So i just chill, i wait, i do my makeup and get dressed to go to class right after, and around five, she says we should better meet tomorrow to have more time, because some other girls wanted to go for coffee with her and they couldn't go later. And mow im seriously upset, obviously. The thing i said about her always choosing me first? I should probably erase that. Now im starting to see things that i have always ignored before. Like the "ill came 30 minutes later" thing. She does it seriously almost every time. And she definitely wouldn't try to pull that shit with anyone else, because im the friend who never gets upset, never calls her out, the one with unlimited patience. Another thing i noticed, every time she visits she goes out with all her friends except for me. We always stay inside and watch a movie. I have watched like, five billion movies at this point. It was always my favourite thing we did, but now its the ONLY thing we do. I realise im probably a coward for now saying anything, but im seriously scared, and now im starting to believe i have a phobia of being unlikeable to people. That was waaay longen than what i intended, but i do feel better. P.S i did read navs thread, im kinda worried she's not responding anymore.

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'Ever thought of starting up your own biz, now, ready for when you leave?'' Actually, me and my mom have been running a small business since last summer and its going good, so i do have something to keep me occupied." Refer to above! What is it, if you don't mind my asking? I basically make small paintings, and sell them at souvenir-tourist shops. However, i kida hate it lol. I love painting and drawing, but i have to make whatever the client wants, and its usually stuff i hate. And then i have to make the same thing 100 times. Sometimes i actually like the designs though. I used to be really into drawing realistic portraits, but i somehow convinced myself i suck and stopped drawing, untill the business thing came up.

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"Are you an Only Child? You sound very nice, I must say." No, i have an older brother. "Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but:" She used to be fine when we were together. Even when she did piss me off, i would always get over it in seconds because every time we talked, i would just forget about everything. She was awesome, made me feel special and everything. Nothing i said or did was getting judged,we talked about everything, she was always there for me and overall the perfect best friend. When she said something that annoyed me, she would always apologize before i build the courage to speak up. I think thats why i struggle to do so now, because i haven't done it before.

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"She MAY find that her charms - or what comes soon after - are starting to ....wait for it because I know this won't have occurred to you....WEAR THIN OR PUT PEOPLE OFF AFTER 'FIVE MINUTES'." I have literally seen this happening and its all connected to this: "FIRST WEEK OF UNI AND SHE FULLY EXPECTED TO HAVE PEOPLE FLOCK TO HER LIKE THEY USED TO. FIRST WEEK OF UNI. How unrealistic is THAT!" They actually did though, but she didn't like them. She met these girls that she thought were stuck up or something, then met a bunch of other people, who she shit talked with about the previous girls, and the whole situation backfired because they found out and called her out. She felt terrible for weeks after.

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"Sure, she was initially charming, and a laugh/fun. But she had a serious down side. Which YOUR PRESENCE - THE BLEND OF YOU WITH HER - MADE HER TOLERABLE." I still believe it was the opposite though. The people we talked to in highschool as a pair would never talk to me when i was alone. They hang out with her just fine, thought. That could very well be my fault and it probably was though. Also, all my friends from highschool that cut me off still have contact with her. That however, isn't my fault. So allow me to disagree that i was definitely not the star of the duo. About that list, i guess we could put what happened today at nasty. I went from annoyed to angry( i dont know if my mother is employing her to make me clean the house) to sad to just hurt because i have been waiting since Christmas to see her again and she chose to see someone else first. However, knowing me, i will have probably forgotten about this tomorrow. So maybe somewhere between neutral and nasty? Idk

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"Speaks volumes, matey. Unless you DID try once and got somehow, subtly "punished" or "not rewarded)? Usually it does take an example incident. But if you know even without making a first attempt? Time to shuffle backwards and try to read more about narcissism (AND immature friends with low eQ) to identify her before you think about shuffling back." No, no the "afraid to whine to her" thing is a me problem and not something she has caused. I have totally talked to her about not having any friends here and she's been super supportive. I just don't do it at moments when i feel like i need it because in my head its like:" i shouldn't annoy her for this, shes probably tired of hearing about it, what if she thinks im annoying" and the list goes on.

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Since im seriously opening up here, i should probably mention that i had another best friend before her, for about 6 years(holy shit are all of my friendships doomed to last 6 years?) She was my childhood best friend and again " the star of the duo". our friendship ended very suddenly, which is something that changed me as a person and made me seriously struggle to the point that i started self harming. I still do it sometimes, not going to lie, but very rarely. Anyways i always blame my "afraid to be annoying cause people will hate and dumb me" problem on her. I left quite a lot to unpack here, hehe, hope you will be able to catch up.

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Busy couple of days - sozzies! Be with you tonight - hang tight...

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PS: Yes, of course I'll be able to catch up. I even read whole, actual, books, doncha know - sometimes really huge ones! ;D I can hear the Cognitive Dissonance and Denial going round your head from here (normal and commonplace). Don't worry, I'll clear all the "F.O.G." for you. :)

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I'm here! Bit late - sorry. "I haven't read what you've written yet but something just happened and i HAVE to talk about it. She came back to town yesterday, and told me we should meet today and watch a movie together. This is all perfectly fine with me, i tell her yes and then today i let ger know that i have class from 8-9:30.(This is also the time when we usually meet). She didn't say anything in particular but i saw from her tone that she was bothered, probably because for her im always available, and she had definitely made other plans after. So she tells me to meet before my class, around 6, but i tell her 5 is better because i have to leave at 7:30 and we wouldn't have enough time. She says ok great. When its around four she says she'll came to my house because she didn't bring her laptop with her.(we almost always meet at her's) Im like ok sure but im panicking because my house is a huge mess and I haven't studied for my class yet. So i burst my ass to study and clean the entire house in less that thirty minutes, only to get a text like: ill came at 5:30 after all . At this point im seriously pissed off, because she has done this MANY TIMES. Plus she is always 10 minutes late minimum. So i just chill, i wait, i do my makeup and get dressed to go to class right after, and around five, she says we should better meet tomorrow to have more time, because some other girls wanted to go for coffee with her and they couldn't go later. And mow im seriously upset, obviously. The thing i said about her always choosing me first? I should probably erase that. Now im starting to see things that i have always ignored before. Like the "ill came 30 minutes later" thing. She does it seriously almost every time. And she definitely wouldn't try to pull that shit with anyone else, because im the friend who never gets upset, never calls her out, the one with unlimited patience. Another thing i noticed, every time she visits she goes out with all her friends except for me. We always stay inside and watch a movie. I have watched like, five billion movies at this point. It was always my favourite thing we did, but now its the ONLY thing we do. I realise im probably a coward for now saying anything, but im seriously scared, and now im starting to believe i have a phobia of being unlikeable to people. That was waaay longen than what i intended, but i do feel better. P.S i did read navs thread, im kinda worried she's not responding anymore." Actually, before I comment, I need to know something because I SUSPECT you're subconsciously doing something typically victimy-sneaky. It doesn't exonerate her - pas de tout! - but it would require a certain-tinted filter over the magic torch. (And PS, I'm available on-off all day today so feel free to respond quickly, if available, and then I can get properly stuck-in: You told her Yes. Then on the day itself, warned you had a class...until 9.30 (am I to presume, morning?). Didn't you know the day before that you had a class? Did you forget, during the arrangement conversation? When and what time did you find out? Did you apologise for the late disruption to the arrangement? I suspect your mind is already done with her. But it's mentally so difficult with Coverts to pinpoint exactly (or even find a name-label for) their ultra-misty-twisty psychological crimes against you...particularly as most things were those that FAILED TO happen/WEREN'T said (or in the right, APPROPRIATE way). you've got to have a memory of an elephant AND good recall - which is very difficult when still chronically distressed. I suspect that with more time in which to calm down (now that you know where you stand and how to dodge the slaps/over-competitiveness), you'll have come to you the evidence to match my accusations (same as Heisenberg). Really, it takes time to realise just how seriously you've been mistreated - WHETHER INTENDED OR JUST SELFISH CLUMSINESS OR NOT (it still harms). Back to you? And how are you feeling today? You ok?

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PS: This is your remaining Cognitive Dissonance talking, right here: "No, no the "afraid to whine to her" thing is a me problem and not something she has caused. I have totally talked to her about not having any friends here and she's been super supportive. I just don't do it at moments when i feel like i need it because in my head its like:" i shouldn't annoy her for this, shes probably tired of hearing about it, what if she thinks im annoying" and the list goes on." It means, trying to marry two, completely contradictory beliefs at the same time (your case, because your mind has a piece of damning evidence for the prosecution which it's already correctly classified, verified by me, but you're holding onto old misbeliefs as clash horribly....no doubt due to the usual Sentimentalism of big Empaths) (which you crystal-clearly are). See if you can spot what I mean and why. (No worries if not - I'll tell you. Just wanna test your cylinders at this point along.)

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"your case, because your mind has a piece of damning evidence for the prosecution which it's already correctly classified, verified by me, but you're holding onto old misbeliefs as clash horribly.." I'm having a hard time understanding this, English isn't my first language and i dont know what half of these words mean lol I totally see the way im contradicting myself though. And there's a whole term for that wow! I had no idea!

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You told her Yes. Then on the day itself, warned you had a class...until 9.30 (am I to presume, morning?). Didn't you know the day before that you had a class? Did you forget, during the arrangement conversation? When and what time did you find out? Did you apologise for the late disruption to the arrangement? It was until 9.30 at night. Of course i knew, i didnt think it was a big deal and i let her know in the morning of the same day. It wasn't like we had an arranged time to meet, we just said lets meet tomorrow. I honestly didn't think much of it.

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We did meet up, i discovered she lied to me about things that didn't make any sense and I don't understand why anyone would lie about that in the first place, for example she said we should go to my place cause she didn't bring her computer at town, remember? She had bought her computer, i literally saw it, and when i asked about it she said "of course i brought my computer, i had to study", like i wouldn't remember what she said a day ago? I honestly don't understand.

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I got waylaid (happens alot - Spain is chaotic and everything last-min, no-warning, still). I'm going to bust a gut to get on tomorrow and help you understand why the lie, and the rest of it, no worries, busy yourself with something else. It's never a case of will I be back, just how quickly but I can hear you're in confusion and distress. Yet another disappointing disillusionment. What she denied, is called "Gaslighting" - re-writing history, denying the facts, trying to rob you of your correct perception and thereby chip away your usual trust in your mind and senses. All just to escape being accountable for having told you one thing but done the complete opposite. When we spend time in any emotionally involved and intimate people with brain-damage, set to permanently getting one-over (or worse) on people, particularly those closest (i.e. most ego-threatening) to them, IT DISTURBS US. Go google it. You're experiencing the correct, typical, Narc-victim brain sensations...the response of a FIT AND HEALTHY brain trying to organise what cannot be organised into making truth and/or sense. Our minds aren't supposed to experience it. It's a socially-passed-on disease. Additionally, due to their/the illness's over-dominance compulsion, they're infectious and your brain can sense this and feel distressed, sort-of scared of them, panicking because you don't know what's going on but dread experiencing that again without at least being prepared and non-intimidated.... All of that and more. She's got your mind parts doing Olympic-level gymastics - basically. Like Twister on-acid. But in unnatural, abhormal positions that feel unsafe. You ARE safe. And there are so many ways to be even safer, without it harming YOU or anyone but a Narc or even Insecure/Difficult Person. But her corrupted data, now cranked-up, just *feels* threatening. How do you look in a leotard? LOL Thinking of leotards and the Olympic Games: Which country are you in/from and/or what's your first language? (Your English is very good, I must say!) PS: Your phobia is just an illusion. Unless you were surrounded by Narcs growing-up/schooling and just weren't aware and thought ALL kids/people were "like that", it was just something one had to tolerate in any human-human close relationship of any kind? I'm one of the sanest people you'll ever meet and - look - with each post you publish, the more I like you. And I am infuratingly fussy. With very high standards that I make myself follow as well as others who want to spend time with me. I am VERY protective over my brain. Never watched Porn - saw through it (PAYING drug-pushers to addict you, out of your own salary ffs!, and who wants to watch people they don't find attractive anyway, having feelingless, purely recreational (or disrespectful) S*X with each other? What am I - a voyeur? Ugh - unclean. Same for gratuitously gory/distasteful horror films. How angry-childish, how misogynistic (AGAIN)... And I'm a Super-Nova Empath so I'm sensitive AND tough, whatever any situation demands. So it must be nothing to do with you and all to do with them and why they'd want to give you the cold-shoulder. Are you a truth-speaker? Do you call out BS as you hear it? Narcs (and - google - Flying Monkeys) are WELL scared of truth speakers. And anyway. I know my stuff so I know that if you are targetted and picked/pecked on by a load of soul-suckers and enablers, or even ONE, then it's because you've got what they want but don't have and have no means to attract into their life. But - question: where are all these "star"-worshippers today? Maybe you mistook fawning for popularity? It's common for other less-confident of the truth types to do anything to stay in "the in-crowd" and not be next in the subtly bitchy and confidence-pecking/etc. female Covert's scary-sniper crosshairs. They're the ones that frequently say something that makes you want to 'curl up and die' or the 'ground to swallow you up'. The ones that rush straight up to the boy you fancy and yell, (Name) fancies you!, and scare/embarrass the boy away (because they insist on being your only interested and (false) feedbacker. Victim's problems are not that they're not in whatever way(s) gorgeous enough. It's that they're TOO gorgeous. So much so that they want to possess you then BECOME you. Because you've got what they haven't (empathy/humanity) and your unique You-ness, and all the things those gorgeous traits get or pave for you in later life, even when you're no longer youthfully good-looking (for you). Looks or Look or Facial/Body Posture attract. Personality - including, e.g., your subtly unique thus identifiable/recognisable voice -immediately step in and keep. Looks fade, personality doesn't. And looks/facial muscle posture takes a 'beating' when you have a secret ahole in your life, especially when they REALLY start losing or removing their mask due to pressure or crisis. You have all the ingredients to be attractive or alluring (alluring is best - that doesn't go, either). Except for one: confidence in you! You don't know up-to-date you, anyway. You've neen too distracted AND have had a person whose even just vibe would have left you unsettled. Even the NICE things they say aren't said right. It's all Cantonese Clingon (misspelling intentional). You're sweet. And deeply caring. I love it! Name me one person in world who doesn't? :) You stop seeing people's faces as you get to know them, anyway. It gets overlayed by their personality. So, for example, they have a huge nose but they're a lovely, interesting, etc. person. More the months pass, the more you start to LIKE their unique nose...find it sexy, even. See? What you've seen of their INSIDES, if attractive, makes their face/body increasingly more attractive. If NOT attractive..... I dated a supermodel. His sexy face by Month 6 had turned into an off-putting "plasticine" face with a permanently smug and arrogant facial expression.... it's hard to articulaate but it was like he had a wax face that slowly got out of kilter, out of proportion....DISTORTED. I ended up thinking, Ugh, you're actually WEIRD-looking...UGLY. Yeah - cos he was an undeniable p*ick....playing stupid mind-games, trying to assert dominance by assuming superiority (with eff-all basis), making substly snidey remarks meant to remove my confidence ("Pathological Envy")..... LIFE IS TOO SHORT. Don't write that off as a wrinkly talking. I'm not exaggerating. I am having real trouble believing what age I am this year. Like - NO, I'M NOT - I'M THE SAME AS I EVER WAS. I just don't look 'as I ever was'. See? SEE? (HAHAHA! - but serously - ) See? I said I would post tomorrow but I just started reading ONE post and got sucked in. There's something about you. I was supposed to go to bed! But I don't even mind! But I am going to be self-displined as I have to be up quite early in the morning (uuugh) so - more tomorrow/any chance get - you and everyone else, jeez!

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Sorry- just borrowing your thread to respond to Richard's message to me on the main page: Righto - will do! Will answer you on here if there's a problemo with my email. (Bloody-bloody technology - what NOW!)

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Yep - found them with the Spam, Stan (haven't a clue why) - will read them tomorrow! Cheers for the heads-up!

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Right...to clarify what I meant that you didn't understand: basically, cognitively, with this further proof of abormal, childish attitude and behaviour - you now know she's "Iffy" but it's too hard to know which Her is the Real Her - the nice her or the lying, 'bringing you down' (after just lifting you up - it's called giving with one hand while/then taking away again with the other and is a specialismm of Coverts). As the separate polar opinions based on her extreme/polar sides, so extreme they're like a split personality ("she's normal-she's not-she's normal-she's not...she loves me-loves-me-not..." cannot merge/blend because they both correct fully-formed opinions based on incoming data, entities in their own right rather than blendable components/two halves, YET don't add up to a normal human person paired together and (without constant whisking) refuse to stay permanently together, normally (oil and water), without 'stabilisers' "n stuff", you're left with two separate opnions vying to get into a single-sized opinion hole. They don't fit so they have to take turns. Yes/no/yes/no/yes/no....AAAAAAAARGH - WHICH!!! IT CAN'T BE BOTH. Yes, but it can. In brain-developmentally sabotaged/damaged individuals. That's WHY they drive you crazy. Your mind has nowhere to PUT this alien data package and our mind has to FILE STUFF in the CORRECT filing cabinets or the company could be negatively affected as a result. They LOOK normal, they SOUND normal. But they're ferel...half-baked, half-present, out-of-order human, more like a machine with predator/aggressor psychology (pounce or be pounced on/eat or be eaten/hit or be hit, dump first or (inevitably) be dumped first...). It's like, every night when you 'lights-out', a ferocious, starving, maybe rabbid, lone wolf suddenly appearing on your sofa in place of your lovely cuddly doggie. Tears chunks out of you, freaks the bejesus out of you...you turn the lights on again and it's just your cuddly doggy again. Being turned horribly confused into insane ("Gaslighted") anyone? You've answered my questions (Taaaa!) and I see that you warning her didn't apply to the nature of your meet-ups. Got to break off for a tick so I'll start a new page...

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(...continued...) "The thing i said about her always choosing me first? I should probably erase that." Now that she's without a main Primary Supply she's started to tame and train you. So she leaves you long enough until you're starving, then reappears and 11th hour arranges, then messes you around, before (could be true, could be lie) telling you she's playing with other friends instead, you'll have to go to the back of the queue. Because what she was testing to see if you'd do, was: BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR HER. BE INSTA-CONVENIENT. Be Master to your Slave (which would include, Emotional Dumping Ground/Punching-Bag - even if just because she had a headache). YOU FAILED. YOU SHOWED YOU STILL HAVE YOUR SELF-RESPECT. Mission - Failed! Now you must be punished/trained harder. You'll be starved again for a longer period, whether non-contact-wise or deliberately being supportive, undermining, invalidating... And then she'll come back and "litmus test" you again on that same score. She's trying to wear you down until you go, "Anything!...anything!....I'll do anything you want when you want how you want from now on... - just FEED ME, PLEASE, BOO-HOO!" Aren't YOU a bad little slave, then? (Gold Star on your forehead - "thlup!"). "Now im starting to see things that i have always ignored before." Yup. It's how the Narc Abuse Recovery Path (think, through a woods) goes. You've hit that hidden little pothole next to the tiny lakke that trips you up so you fall flat on your face where it hurts enough that you go, 'Jeez, this path is dangerous in places', or notice the sole of your shoe contributed for coming loose and flapping around, so think, 'I'd better go more carefully'. And then it smooths out again. It's to get you to stop and look around you and behind you (which you're doing so you're HEALTHY and right on-target, progress-wise. And you got there VERY FAST, actually.) See? All you needed was SUPPORT. And I'm not going anywhere so - let's go get her, Tiger? :) And this is precisely why they don't want you to have support nor confidence to make up for lack of support. She wants the entire so-called Friendship to be ALL ON HER TERMS - and sod yours and how YOU feel about it (servants don't get to demand and dictate). Anyhoo... "Like the "ill came 30 minutes later" thing. She does it seriously almost every time. And she definitely wouldn't try to pull that shit with anyone else, because im the friend who never gets upset, never calls her out, the one with unlimited patience." Yup. Swat Narx Do. Tip: Always agree a meet-up time of about 30 minutes EARLIER than you intend. So, obvs, you say 7.30 when you mean 8. And then pretend you got there on-time(ish) :) (*leans forehead expectantly forward, with cheesy grin, for a sticky Gold Star from MT) (haha, worth a try). "Another thing i noticed, every time she visits she goes out with all her friends except for me." Yup. "We always stay inside and watch a movie." Yes. Like the servant, who stands-in for "friends" but is still just an (free) employee, that you (to her) 'are' (NOOOOOT!) (fail) "I have watched like, five billion movies at this point." Wow! Which ones? (hahahahaha) - "Go...!?" No, but, seriously, folk: which stick in your mind that you'd love to watch again? That could be a really handy bonus to this 'Friend-Fiend-ship', you know? Could be really useful in the future. And think of all that knowledge you've soaked up and the raise in iQ from all those moving books! "It was always my favourite thing we did, but now its the ONLY thing we do." Yup. "Wine and Netflix". It's "a thing" on your dating sites and apps. Basically: I don't wanna waste money on you so let's do a budget-bottom date and pretend it's RO-MAN-TIIIIC and for romantic REA-SOOONNNS. (Yeah, right, cheap-arse.) All the friendships perks for her - none for you. All the friendship work for you - none or the bare-bare minimum at times, for her. Got it? Seeing it fit beautifully? Being managed down? GOOGLE - "Narcissist - managing down your expectations". "I realise im probably a coward for now saying anything," Nope! This is how they affect even the normally super-brave Neurotypicals, ESPECIALLY big-big Empaths. Still right on track, no wozzies. "but im seriously scared, and now im starting to believe i have a phobia of being unlikeable to people." Yup - that, too! The lovelier you are, the harder it affects you. (So stop showing-off hahaha). Not people. Malignant Narcissists. I can SEE you've been stuck without even realising, in La-La Land, surrounded by the buggers. Let's keep pulling you OUT Of there and back into Normal Kind People Land. Then the kind people will SEE you and want to be friends with you. Honestly, this IS what's going on. You're the psycho-emotional version of a domestic slave/sex slave/whatever, tricked into the country with the promise of milk and honey but isolated, locked-up, mistreated, tortured, even, not paid.....CAPTIVE SLAVE. They call Malignants, Slow Murderers. "That was waaay longen than what i intended, but i do feel better." That was waaay shorter than I can write or am used to dealing with - so you can feel better about that, too. :) "P.S i did read navs thread, im kinda worried she's not responding anymore." Yeah. (sad, pouty face - me too. But usually just means they've turned a corner and got sucked into stuff and "will post again in a minute, in a minute..." but are too engrossed in having fun for a change. No wozzies, she knows she can come back any time. Did you read Heisenberg's thread yet (link above)?

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(tsk - WT, not MT) (good god, better type slower) (or clip my nails....I sound like a kitten trying to catch a fly on my keyboard) (or tapdancing)

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PS another tip: What are you studying, and could you choose films that are relevant and would enhance your understanding of whatever from giving you the second-hand *experience* as well as the academic knowledge? I.e. choose the films that you want (without her realising). I.e. Make Lemonade out of that giant Lemon, like clearly has already been done from you here and there by "them upstairs"? This is a uni course all itself, you know. University Of Life - How to deal with a narc so that normal people become a BREEZE and so you can become distinctly unattractive to Narcs whilst distinctly attractive to Normals-Empaths (your ideal types). I can already see this whole experience is going to do you a MASSIVE favour/leg-up, I sincerely can. PPS: She's more scared of you than you are of her. She needs you more than you need her. Can't LIVE without a You (seriously - literally). "NPD - fear of abandonment". Not like the reasons for OUR fear. More DREAD of having to start over with a new target. That's why the vets/malignants like someone vulnerable/down - half the training's been done FOR them (having had the air taken out of your sails, not enough fight left, etc.). So where in Normal-Empath Land it's feel the fear and do it anyway. In La-La Land (slave compound), it's DESTROY the fear then do it or don't do it, depending on whether you can by then be arsed to give a sh*t. You only REALISE how bad and welfare/sanity-threatening the abuse ACTUALLY was, with hindsight. Either post-leaving physically. Or, like in your case, emotionally (de-drip, de-drip, de-drip). You've been grieving while still IN the relationship. You won't have much 'getting over' left to do. You might be surprised how much you feel like partying ('going liberation-crazy')! Have one on here if you like? I'll come?

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Oh, and - another tip: Next visit, say: "We can't sit around at mine, though, because I've got the landlord's/uni's painters/contractors, I'm having to sleep in my friend's room for a few nights". Out-narc the Narc. She can abandon you as a project or do as she's ruddy told for a change - CHOOOSE OR LOOOOSE, Bucko! You've got to get over yourself and lie to Narcs. If you view them like Normals and stay polite and within social taboos like you would with them, you're done for. Picture Indiana Jones, Temple of Doom. Arab Giant Narc appears with cutlass(?) - well, huge sword....waving it around menacingly. If Indie decided to play fair and pick up a sword - he'd risk getting injured or worse. So he just gets out his gun and goes, 'BANG!' (and then shows an exasperated/bored face). But this is just while you're gearing-up to deciding to dump. Which, I'm afraid, if they don't alter their attitude and behaviour and have a bit of bloody respect (means can't/won't/see no need to, LIKE things this way), by then, you will. She's going down, whichever way you look at it. That's why you mustn't waste energy being scared. If you pull her off the La-La Land cliff WITH you (where everything works OPPOSITE to how it's supposed to), then, she (or He), being a La-La Land native: She falls down to the rocks below (which is her Up). You fall UP (which is her Down), back to Normal Land. (Try an Aspirin, haha)

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''What she denied, is called "Gaslighting" - re-writing history, denying the facts, trying to rob you of your correct perception and thereby chip away your usual trust in your mind and senses. All just to escape being accountable for having told you one thing but done the complete opposite.'' I know what gaslighting is, the part i dont understand why she would lie about something so frickin pointless. ''Thinking of leotards and the Olympic Games: Which country are you in/from and/or what's your first language? (Your English is very good, I must say!)'' Thank you! To be fair, i have been learning it since i was five... Im Greek! ''So it must be nothing to do with you and all to do with them and why they'd want to give you the cold-shoulder. Are you a truth-speaker? Do you call out BS as you hear it? Narcs (and - google - Flying Monkeys) are WELL scared of truth speakers.'' I usually dont, but i keep it and i remember EVERYTHING. So when someone says something contrasting, i just go like:arent you the one who said...(whatever they said) ''Right...to clarify what I meant that you didn't understand: basically, cognitively, with this further proof of abormal, childish attitude and behaviour - you now know she's "Iffy" but it's too hard to know which Her is the Real Her - the nice her or the lying, 'bringing you down' (after just lifting you up - it's called giving with one hand while/then taking away again with the other and is a specialismm of Coverts).'' RIGHT! One moment shes love-bombing me and the other does stuff that makes me wonder if she actually gives a shit about me. ''No, but, seriously, folk: which stick in your mind that you'd love to watch again?'' Hard to decide, but i still think about that damn plot twist from Cruel intentions. I couldnt believe he was actually dead!(tsk - WT, not MT) (tsk - WT, not MT) Haha-its ok, i seriously dont even remember my username "What are you studying, and could you choose films that are relevant and would enhance your understanding of whatever from giving you the second-hand *experience* as well as the academic knowledge?" Im studying archaeology, and i choose the film most of the times anyways. "I can already see this whole experience is going to do you a MASSIVE favour/leg-up, I sincerely can." I honestly see it too, at the begining i seriously felt like i couldnt live without her (bit much i know) but as time passed i realised i will be just fine, even alone. Best part of being a huge introvert is im not afraid of being lonely. "More DREAD of having to start over with a new target" I actually dread of having to start over, not with a target of course, but the thought that i will have to get to trully know someone, all from the begining terrifies me. With her im somewhat safe, i know everything she likes and doesnt, what makes her happy, what angers her. With someone new i will have to learn all of that all over again. "But this is just while you're gearing-up to deciding to dump. Which, I'm afraid, if they don't alter their attitude and behaviour and have a bit of bloody respect (means can't/won't/see no need to, LIKE things this way), by then, you will." When it comes to me, i dont think that i would ever dump her. We have too many memories, we have been through so much together, we saw each other grow up, i want to keep "seeing"her, see what kind of adult she turns into. And i want her to see me too. I guess now that i know better (all thanks to you!) i just wont let her stomp over me anymore.

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Be with you tomorrow daytime, WT - soz for delay!

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Heya! Noooo - *you're* not contradicting yourself - her *data* is contradictory...*she* is contradictory - and a healthy mind has real difficulty trying to cope with that. "I know what gaslighting is, the part i dont understand why she would lie about something so frickin pointless." I KNOWWWWW - it's crazy, right? There you go. Corrupt wiring and circuitry is as does. But the crazy's reason is this: They get an ego kick every time they mentally mess you around. (Yes, indeedie - scream for Matron, quick!) And yet they can seem SO NORMAL. Yup...all day-everyday mimicry - of an Empath. Yup, they pick on the ones who care most...Because in La-La Land, the warped/upside-down rule for social survival is: S/he who cares least, wins! (...Ma-troooooon!....where is she!) Also, they can't keep keeping-up that level of fairly non-stop act as is required, not to send potential "Narcissistic Supply" (google) away, screaming, 'Rogue and out-of-control android on the loose!'. Anyway, I did SAY, try an Aspirin, LOL. I'll tell ya summat else: they make TERRIBLE employees (constant manipulation, over-competitiveness, and creating dischord - or other extreme, shirking (creating themselves Lackeys) yet shockingly taking the credit)...end up having to hop as much between one job and the next (or opting to work solo) as much as they do fauxlationships (should be called ReekLationships IMO), and Fiendships/Frenemyships. Teamwork/teamship is not a word you associate with any Malignant. Plus, they lie on their CVs. Just as with everything else "lovely" about them - they can fake it until the Other is hooked. From there, theories are divided between their lovely side being real but constantly spoilt by their compulsion to be pettily evil ("puke their toxins out and into you", etc., as well as get the Fiendship totally on their terms and sod yours - as you've just experienced) OR, they're putting it on. Probably depends on their severity on that part end the spectrum. They all get worse with age though (don't believe the Narc-created propoganda out there, fashioned to shut victims up and keep them taking their crap, LIKE they get milder; they beeping DO NOT). I feel wildly sorry for them - or the kid they were before they got completely, irreversibly, emotionally-slow-murdered and brainwashed (like getting bitten by a vampire or zombie - which types is precisely what these films depict). The severe and/or veterans, will even tell a lie when they not only could have told the truth, but could have avoided trouble! Why? EGO-NUM-NUMS (think PacMan)....I lied and you believed me - hur-hur-hur-hur-hur! - I'm so superior to you - I'm like a God or something - hur-hur-hur. And take a hint from that game/depiction too: to send them off, you've got to turn Blue and out-to-get-them. Witness this scene....you're DEALING with a feral predator so, what could be more fitting or true re. what happens when you finally have HAD ENOUGH OF HAVING HAD ENOUGH!... (YouTube - Shorts - "When A Lion Turns Vegan") - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XzH2lWcYdHs _______________ And by the way, forgot to mention: I'm pretty sure those past fans/sychophants of hers who seemed not to want to hang out with you individually, are those that believed her smearing of you behind your back. They start "the Narcissistic Smear Campaign" (google) from early-on in your friendships as a type of insurance: either long before, or certainly the minute that you end it. It's so that, when you try to gain support from others in the group/social circle, most won't believe you. (Don't worry about those "Flying Monkeys" as they're known - they're far too thick and narrow-minded for you...probably just milder Narcs or narcissistics, or outright cowards, themselves...and who needs even cowards/the disloyal for friends. So it's - Cheers, Narcipoos, for having cleared my decks of deadwood and other toxics (even just toxic 'in effect'). Smearing's mentioned in this following vid, but do watch the entire thing because it's relevant to the Devaluing-into-Discard you've unwittingly 'entered' (it's simply what comes next in their corrupted programme after the Love/Like-Bombing phase - our "Honeymoon Period") and are being subjected to - making you feel she's leaving *you* if you're not a good little lackey, for other friends. (In fact, to most victims' lament - they DON'T/WON'T leave. Not unless they get a better "sap". And they don't have true friendships except for Empaths anyway (and look what they do to THEM!...talking about, undeserving!) - they have scared Don't-Wannabe Victims, constantly keeping her placated AND FOCUSED ON YOU - google "Narcissism - The Scapegoat"). So it's actually HARD to get rid of them and make them stay away, unless circumstances are on your side (WHICH YOURS ARE, FINALLY (the geographical distance) - 'Praise dee Lawd!'). So watchez-vous, s'ilver plates (scuse Franglish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhD9WNYUdUY

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And btw again - this is what happened and STILL happens to me... because, I'll tell you: you're ALWAYS going to encounter or find yourself heart-hooked (think, tangled in wire that after Love-Bombing, sprouts more and more barbs) at some point(s) by these pathetic, ridiculous, disturbing, even "scary" types. I'm sorry, but, I don't care what anyone else reckons: I've studied these idiots, even gone into r-ships or deliberately not-left-yet (for 'field study' purposes) MY ENTIIIIIIRE...LIFE! And I say that like that because I surpassed 'sick of the bsstds' a loooooooooooonnng time ago. There is no immunity. Being Co-Dependent, weakaned, still grieving, just not your normal Up self, simply makes you an easier mouthful for the lazy/counter-injured/really thick/bad at manipulation among them. The rest's egos NEED a challenge...to take strong, chirpy ones down and TURN them co-dependent, etc., etc. You can teach your cognitive side all the Red Flags until the cows come home but it won't do you any good as far as getting INTO a 'box' with them for many reasons, such AS: 1. We don't fall in-love or fondness with our intellect (unlike the fledgling Narcs who DO want and kid themselves they're qualified thus entitled to a relationship like everyone else). 2. You have to "be there" to not just spot things but FEEL them. It's our EMOTIONAL side that saves us - once we've had (La-La Land version) enough of having had enough. 3. Normal-Decents are PROGRAMMED to keep trying to fix a relationship, ESPECIALLY when you've got kids. Were they not, the whole human race would have died out by now (think about it). Trying and Loyalty is GOOD. Except with Narcs. 4. Sometimes, the person is just genuinely injured,...riddled in "Narc Fleas" (google), and WILL HEAL. An Empath will always give someone a chance, it's the only humane thing to do (blame your programming). I've met plenty of injureds who were just suffering "NVS" or "(C)PTSD" (google) whom it was worth being patient with and not taking it personally, and recovered and got back to their usual, delightful selves. When you help a monster to recover, however, you're just 'feeding the Monster' and they become a worse and WORSE friend. There's the diff that makes all the diff. And many-many more reasons, but the point is this: ANYONE can get (psychological version) lured into an enslaver or serial killer's van (watch the film, "Silence Of The Lambs"). Even psychiatrists get giant-hooked! - even Robert Hare himself, who developed the Hare Psychopathy Checklist ffs (it irritates him beyond belief!). So what makes YOU (not literally you) so special?! You see? You did NO-HO-HO-THING...wrong. YOU'RE JUST NORMAL, KIND, DECENT AND THEREFORE ATTRACTIVE TO NARCS who need to take-take-take benefit from that and you. Ber-bom. This is especially true of your Coverts and Covert-Vulnerables. They're practically ucking invisible. You just know you feel, amongst too many other neg. things (including nervy and getting ill too much), INCREDIBLY insecure and unsafe in the relationship, as well as, are no farther ahead after X years in terms of said security, than you were/would be after only about SIX MONTHS of dating/friendship. Is that ringing any bells? What matters - is realising the situation - and THEN, ASAP, identifying the Covert against all the Red Flags, especially in terms of how they make you feel/stop you feeling/DON'T make you feel though they should... then deciding, preparing (if poss), and escaping at the first beeping opportunity. And then (because their ego can't take being seen through and 'fired') watch them rip off their mask (only in front of you, still, however) and show you how nasty, cruel, cold-hearted, selfish, etc. they are (monstrous) to point of dread and fear setting in. (If they've no-one to puke into, they start projectile-vomiting in front of those they're trying to impress and lose them too...google Narcissistic Injury and Narcissistic Rage. And that's it (if you were born a kind person)! You can't always avoid Toxics/Narcs if they're DEEPLY covert. You can only DEAL with them. If you're wrong about them, what follows either will prove you are or...what happens, USUALLY, is you'e not wrong. Narcs, who have no conflict resolution skills nor much conscience, if any, tend only to throw fat onto the fire aka add insult to injury, meaning, rather than apologise they do a (google) "DARVO". (Never take that nonsense - go self-respectfully schtum on them, 'shut down' where they're concerned and protect yourself from the flying bullets and debris.) So!...back to what happened too shortly after I excised what turned out to be a Narc (finding normal friends is like a ruddy Lucky Dip these days!) last week and guess what happened? What ALWAYS happens (once, if you're injured, you've healed) - hence the saying, "When one door closes, another opens". Another friend who'd been fairly casual (but perfectly lovely) due to unsociable working hours, stepped majorly up, announcing she's changed her job, and would love us to get together more frequently and regularly from now on. Into the box I go...but if I DO spot OR FEEL dem Red Flags, I'll set my usual traps and tests, and if necessary, be outta there, faster than they could pick up a phone say: "Narcissistic Helpline - how can you help me?" :D I know what it is, even without circumstances helping... It's because YOU - having chucked that monkey off your back, no longer laden-down, even under your own awareness - suddenly "look" more attractive. After all - she needn't have even told me. On the other hand, some people are only meant to be stepping-stones. Those are friendship born of circumstance, of course. For a friend- or any-ship to last takes EMPATHY, MORALS and COURAGE in-common. You're quite lucky if, like in your case, you 'wake up and don't go back to sleep' while still IN the relationship as then you get to grieve (increasingly, once you've started) while still in it too, meaning, less or maybe even nothing left to grieve once you're O-U-T, out. Are these prattlings of mine helping?

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You're Greek? Crikey! I don't think we've ever HAD a Greek on here? Not to my knowledge, anyway? How do I say 'Welcome!' in Greek? And what's life like there post-Brexit and Covid (and those trying to squeeze every last bit of juice out of it)?

Jealous of best friend

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"''So it must be nothing to do with you and all to do with them and why they'd want to give you the cold-shoulder. Are you a truth-speaker? Do you call out BS as you hear it? Narcs (and - google - Flying Monkeys) are WELL scared of truth speakers.'' I usually dont, but i keep it and i remember EVERYTHING. So when someone says something contrasting, i just go like:arent you the one who said...(whatever they said)" Then you vibe it. That'll do (they have predator senses and sizing-up skills). PS: but once big Empaths allow themselves to get acquainted with their OWN, usually deeply contained, psychopath (all humans have that side, ohh, yash) AND don't put them too far back in their 'cage' after the battle with said Narc - their (yes, and your) FIT, HEALTHY, HEROIC psychopath WINS HANDS-DOWN EVERY SINGLE TIME. No contest...which is precisely WHY they try to bind & gag you (think about it). She is FAR more scared of you. Or, you awake and angry enough to forget your injuries and *tame or squish her, definitely. "''Right...to clarify what I meant that you didn't understand: basically, cognitively, with this further proof of abormal, childish attitude and behaviour - you now know she's "Iffy" but it's too hard to know which Her is the Real Her - the nice her or the lying, 'bringing you down' (after just lifting you up - it's called giving with one hand while/then taking away again with the other and is a specialismm of Coverts).'' RIGHT! One moment shes love-bombing me and the other does stuff that makes me wonder if she actually gives a shit about me." RIGHT! Because she is - IS - a Covert. (Non-Narcs just don't behave like that.) Anyway - HIGH FIVE! Don't touch that dial (eyelids)! You're Wide Awake now (uh-oh...she's going down or is at least going to get 'a slapping', alright). ************************* ''No, but, seriously, folk: which stick in your mind that you'd love to watch again?'' Hard to decide, but i still think about that damn plot twist from Cruel intentions. I couldnt believe he was actually dead!" Cruel Intentions... Have I watched that one? I'll have to youtube it. "(tsk - WT, not MT) Haha-its ok, i seriously dont even remember my username" HAHAHAHHA! What does WT stand for (if you can say)? "What are you studying, and could you choose films that are relevant and would enhance your understanding of whatever from giving you the second-hand *experience* as well as the academic knowledge?" Im studying archaeology, and i choose the film most of the times anyways." Oh, so preumably you've already watched the Indiana Jones trilogy? Do, it's great fun...doesn't really date (apart from the slight sexism). First was best, though (as per usual). ""I can already see this whole experience is going to do you a MASSIVE favour/leg-up, I sincerely can." I honestly see it too,"" Oh, fantastic! We couldn't ask for anything better. :) "at the begining i seriously felt like i couldnt live without her (bit much i know)" NOPE - situationally normal and unavoidable. They get you ADDICTED - google How Do Narcissists Get You Addicted, or some such. You're getting a handy 'medical' here, as well - realising you're matching ALL of the Normal-Empath typical symptoms - so that's going to be very self-vindicating, too. Next comes, 'Crikey, I thought there must be something wrong with me to be attracting this type, but it's the opposite! I'm TOO gorgeous!' or if you get them a lot - 'I'm irresistible!'. Seriously...anyone who doesn't attract at least one in their life is either not that Empathetic and strong, not that somehow-charismatic/alluring, or lives on a desert island, and should probably take that as a sign to be a lot squishier WITH IT. And that's the key: fluffy bunny, but armed to the teeth just in case. Voila! - successful Gene Vehicle!...free to be themselves as nature (within reason) intended, free to be EVEN NICER. When you're tooled up and the Narc can finally tell - THEN they end it (albeit, still trying to keep the gate open in case they need you), but it looks more like, running off like the sly coward they intrinsically are. "but as time passed i realised i will be just fine, even alone. Best part of being a huge introvert is im not afraid of being lonely." You won't stay alone. Not once you're recovered. So ENJOY this 'holiday', getting to tend to yourself, get to know 'Yourself TODAY', trying new hobbies... All of this just helps you become eve better company anyway. Honestly, I kid you not: I have spent my entire life trying to have enough friends instead of too many to handle. I REFUSE to be a neglectful so-called Friend. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it PROPERLY. And that's how I know that Narcs will find ANY excuse to have a go at you and emotionally dump (or worse) on you. They literally have to come up with nonsense... like one Narc who (on being politely fired) spat: You think you're so damned perfect! I said: No. I just think I'm perfect at TRYING to be as perfect as I can be. I realise I won't ever be. Else, I wouldn't be human (du-uu-uuh?). But it's trying that makes us Nice. This was over the phone and all I heard in response was: "Uffff..." (defeated haha). SEE YA, NARCIPOOS - WOULDN'T WANNA BE YA. :P ""More DREAD of having to start over with a new target" I actually dread of having to start over, not with a target of course, but the thought that i will have to get to trully know someone, all from the begining terrifies me. With her im somewhat safe, i know everything she likes and doesnt, what makes her happy, what angers her. With someone new i will have to learn all of that all over again." 1. Yup. 2. But two - it's far less effort - the friendship makes and evolves ITSELF. 3. Healthies tend NOT to be so anger-triggerable, you'll find. They'll just discuss-with-concern like a normal person and the two of you will sort it out VERY simply and quickly (and bust a gut not to make that genuine mistake again). 4. The finding out, this time, is ENJOYABLE. 5. This is a false fear - but only natural. Finding a new Comfort Zone. A COMFORTABLE one. ""But this is just while you're gearing-up to deciding to dump. Which, I'm afraid, if they don't alter their attitude and behaviour and have a bit of bloody respect (means can't/won't/see no need to, LIKE things this way), by then, you will." When it comes to me, i dont think that i would ever dump her. We have too many memories, we have been through so much together, we saw each other grow up, i want to keep "seeing"her, see what kind of adult she turns into. And i want her to see me too. I guess now that i know better (all thanks to you!) i just wont let her stomp over me anymore."" I'm sure you WON'T let her stomp. But preventing and dodging that is VERY high-maintenance and time-consuming. I suggest you at least shuffle away out of the range of her 'flailing arms and legs'. If she's no longer capable of hurting you - you'll recover from your past injuries and present as socially attractive ANYWAY. It's the 'not having them always on your mind' bit. But the other problem is, once you've got them behaving, they're actually really boring and superficial people...quite thick, really... so they're STILL frustrating. Well, see how you go, that's all you CAN do, really, isn't it. But stay on here while you do so, okay? Keep chatting. It'll keep your confidence up (you have a secret weapon: me/this forum - just in case she can't be tamed/trained or it takes too much thought?). :)

Jealous of best friend

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(PS: they usually find any ways they can to ENSURE they're constantly playing on your mind; bear that in mind (google 'Narcissism lack of Object Constancy/Permanency").....but at least we'll get to tell WHERE on the spectrum she is, i.e. just a thorn in your side if you let her, or, secretly, one of Beelzebub's Little Helpers.)

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PPS: "So when someone says something contrasting, i just go like:arent you the one who said...(whatever they said)"" So, then - YES, you ARE a Truth-Speaker. Good - never-never stop. Because as the famous quote goes: 'For evil to prevail ((even personally-petty but too-copious evil)) to prevail, just takes a few good men ((people)) to do nothing'. (IMO, if they DO do nothing - they don't fit the definition of Good.)

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PPPS: "One moment shes love-bombing me and the other does stuff that makes me wonder if she actually gives a shit about me." EITHER (the severe) they truly don't give a shite about you OR they love you (or just like you) (depends on how good a (go goo) "Primary Supply" you are) one minute, then HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHATE you the next (go goo Narcissist - Splitting). They DO Love You, Love You Not, Love You, Love You Not. OR (severe maligs) they Love You Not, Pretend To Love You, Love You Not. So THAT'S why it FEEEEELS like that. Get it? Your emotional side is the one that rescues you. Your intelligence/intellect, teams up. Once you hit 'having had enough of I've Had Enough - no, wait... - yes - no, wait.., yes! - Have Had Eeeeeeeeee-NOUGH! is when YOU don't dump - your Inner Psychopathic-but-Nice Animal does. It mutineers you. You JUST...CAN'T... like them any more, no matter how much you feel sorry for them or have history with them. In severe cases, you feel as if they're Radioactive and don't even want to go to places you used to love but (damnit) took THEM to (that passes, though, especially if you overlay it with a positive visit with a real friend). ALL of that. Your shutter will come all the way down in-one: CLANGGG! You can't actually pause the conveyorbelt of the Recovery Path and go backwards. You're going, now, whether you like it or not. It's how it happens. So, as I say, the best you can achieve is to stay out-of-range of her barbs, kicks, punches, EMOTIONALLY. Say it with me: "Yeah, whadever, Trevor..." "Tell it to the hand cos the face ain't listening" (Like Catherine Tate's character, Lauren The Teenager) "Am I bovvered, tho? ((repeat, repeat))....Face? - Bovvered? - Face?..." "Can we change the topic now - this is boring, listening to you bitch-n-moan as usual" "Well...find OTHER friends, then, if I annoy you so much so often - what are ya - Supaglue-ed to me? (Want some solvent, ya fckr?)" "WHAT'S MY GRANNY'S NAME!!" (no answer/gets it wrong, despite you've talked about her more than once) "...In that case, you don't know me so aren't qualified to keep criticising, are you, Forrest/Forrestina". "Riiight...((siiiiiigh))...Are you going to "thscweam 'n thscweam until you're sthick now?" ((ref. Violet-Elizabeth from "Just William")) ...aaaand wait for the overgrown-toddler-type tantrum hahaha. Or (Covert) be ready for the covert-aggressive/passive-aggressive punch-back days/weeks later (first opportunity). These days - I do one with them, haha.... mimicking them but going OTT with the ridiculousness. Take the piss, basically. That way, *I* enjoy myself too! Fair's fair! HAHAHAHA. Just you standing-up for yourself enrages them. But if you 'take the Mickey' AS you do it - their head explodes, haha. But the Super-Nova (google) Empath Rule remains: Never hit first. Just hit back. Or ignore. PROPERLY. If you do things properly you don't ever have to go back and do them again - right? T'ain't Rocket-Science. Not once you've genned-up. (Still 'needless' Madness, though.) But anyway. I'll keep this thread open, too. Because I know what choice of items come NEXT on the menu (innit), whereas, this is 'your first rodeo'. Or IS it??? Have a thinkipoos... You might realise you 'met her before' in someone else's body?

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Ah-hah! Google translate provides: Geia sas WT kai kal贸s 铆rthate sto f贸roum mas (ier贸). Me铆ne 贸so th茅leis! :) (How was my accent. LOL)

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I've just realised something: it's phonetically a bit similar to Armenian, but with just less Ds and Ks! Am I right?

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I still can't get over the fact you're only 18, though. I mean - bloody Nora!? Slightly older friends.... Try it? I can even see you getting on really well with the tutors. You an Only Child? (Have I asked you that already?)

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"I guess now that i know better (all thanks to you!) i just wont let her stomp over me anymore." Thank-you, but - you knew perfectly. You just lacked the language and vocabulary for it. Because we're not programmed for it. Take this in and remember it: "Understanding some people, is like trying to smell the colour 9".

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"Cruel Intentions" sounds like it's about one aspect of the original and best (in terms of seeing what social predator-parasites are really like, and why they're called at-least EMOTIONALLY dangerous - hence) : "Dangerous Liaisons"). (Perpetually Angry mixed with Pathologically Bored, for one thing): It's a period piece so it hasn't dated - which is great because it leaves you free to notice every aspect of them: Dangerous Liaisons (starring Glenn Close, John Malcovicz, Michelle Pfieffer, Uma Thurman...oh, a full star cast!): https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1005199-dangerous_liaisons

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'"You're Greek? Crikey! I don't think we've ever HAD a Greek on here? Not to my knowledge, anyway? How do I say 'Welcome!' in Greek? And what's life like there post-Brexit and Covid (and those trying to squeeze every last bit of juice out of it)?" Glad to represent my country then lol "Geia sas WT kai kal贸s 铆rthate sto f贸roum mas (ier贸). Me铆ne 贸so th茅leis! :)" Thats pretty accourate! It translated foroum as sacred or temple (iero) for some reason lol probably from latin Aaah everything is a huge mess basically, i dont even know where to start... I havent been to uni for three weeks because we are protesting and everything is falling behind. "What does WT stand for (if you can say)?" Nothing, its just random letters haha i was very emotional when i made the first post and definitaly didnt stop to think of a username "Oh, so preumably you've already watched the Indiana Jones trilogy? Do, it's great fun...doesn't really date (apart from the slight sexism). First was best, though (as per usual)." I did, when i was a kid, so i dont remember much. I watched the one that came out last year though. "You won't stay alone. Not once you're recovered. So ENJOY this 'holiday', getting to tend to yourself, get to know 'Yourself TODAY', trying new hobbies... All of this just helps you become eve better company anyway." Ughh i am convinced im going to stay alone, it has happened before and i can already see it happening. Its been, around 8 months since she left and i have made 0 friends, or even people i can talk to casually and im not seeing any progress, especially now that im not going to uni anymore. The holiday has lasted too longg "Honestly, I kid you not: I have spent my entire life trying to have enough friends instead of too many to handle. I REFUSE to be a neglectful so-called Friend. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it PROPERLY. And that's how I know that Narcs will find ANY excuse to have a go at you and emotionally dump (or worse) on you. They literally have to come up with nonsense... like one Narc who (on being politely fired) spat: You think you're so damned perfect! I said: No. I just think I'm perfect at TRYING to be as perfect as I can be. I realise I won't ever be. Else, I wouldn't be human (du-uu-uuh?). But it's trying that makes us Nice." AAAA thats the best comeback i have ever heard!!!! Im fangirling for you "EITHER (the severe) they truly don't give a shite about you OR they love you (or just like you) (depends on how good a (go goo) "Primary Supply" you are) one minute, then HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHATE you the next (go goo Narcissist - Splitting)." She does love me, im sure about it, but the distance BROKE us, or at least me. We have never had a problem before. Do we even have a problem, or am i the only one who thinks so? I wonder about this a lot. "I've just realised something: it's phonetically a bit similar to Armenian, but with just less Ds and Ks! Am I right?' Hmmm, honestly i cant really hear it, but kinda yes, i guess, for my ears Armenian is a lot more harsh-sounding BUT i found out Greek is its closest relative in the indo-european languages and some letters of it are based on the Greek alphabet. So you probably heard right. Do you have Armenian roots? "still can't get over the fact you're only 18, though. I mean - bloody Nora!? I cant get over the fact that im 18 already hahaha, seriously i wanna go back "Slightly older friends.... Try it?" I will if they want me lol, i would try anything at this point "I can even see you getting on really well with the tutors. You an Only Child? (Have I asked you that already?)" You have, its ok! im not, i have an older brother. "Cruel Intentions" sounds like it's about one aspect of the original and best (in terms of seeing what social predator-parasites are really like, and why they're called at-least EMOTIONALLY dangerous - hence) : "Dangerous Liaisons"). (Perpetually Angry mixed with Pathologically Bored, for one thing): It's a period piece so it hasn't dated - which is great because it leaves you free to notice every aspect of them: Dangerous Liaisons (starring Glenn Close, John Malcovicz, Michelle Pfieffer, Uma Thurman...oh, a full star cast!):" I didnt know that! I will definatelly be watching this!

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PS: be with you asap. Oh, and btw - after you watch that, straight after, watch "Hard Candy". It starts to seem hard to watch at first - but only because you're led to THINK it is - but then you realise what's actually going on and are suddenly jumping up and down on your chair/bed, going, 'You go girl!'. Soooo intelligent and well thought-out - you're made a part of the film, is the only way I can describe it without giving anything away. One of my favourite, favourite psychological thrillers/'horrors', along with "Alien" with Signourney Weaver. And "Predator", of course. Others might be a bit heavy for you. My faves tend to provide plausible Closure...none of that vague, keeping you wondering, just to irritate your mind to keep the film ON your mind and having to talk about it with others (cheating at free marketing, anyone?) and disguising the fact by claiming it 'intellectual', 'open to interpretation'. Being left hanging is just plain disappointing and dissatisfying (despite SOME genuinely warrant a missing last page). Other triumph-over-adversity, 'to-conclusion' ones which I can think of right this very sec., are: Papillon (remake still good, but original perfect and still going strong) The Shawshank Redemption (what a feast of fun justice...clever surprises all over the shop) "Double Jeopardy" (just fab!) "Thelma & Louise" (you'll see why it's still famous - just plain, woah) "The Taking of Pelham 123" "The Fugitive" starring Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford (in case they've brought out a re-make...seems to be a lot of that going on, lately). "Happyness" "The Usual Suspects" (TOO good, pure genius!) And if you like Chinese films (stunning photography and acting and bloody good plots!), try, "Raise The Red Lantern" and "To Live" (both starring Gong Li). And there's another cracker I can't quite remember the name of yet... ...crikey...can't think...got TOO many faves to recall, that's why. "Laters"

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Oh - ""The Usual Suspects" (TOO good, pure genius!)" isn't triumph over adversity. It's just clever, gripping, intriguing, and fun all the way. Including the end, especially. Ones that make you think and you enjoy using your brain like that. Brain-pumping Gym while all you know is, you're having fun. Don't you just love fun stuff with hidden benefits?

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Wait - "The Truman Show" starring Jim Carey. In fact, ANY film starring Jim Carey. Equally - Melissa McCarthy. Hysterical. Oh YES - Jim Carey - "The Cable Guy". Comedy, but - effing true (bar the overly optimistic ending, but you forgive it, for having been so funny yet educational beforehand.) Melissa: "Bridesmaids" (prepare to wet your pants)..... The one co-starring Sandra Bullock - "The Heat" (ditto)........ "Ghostbusters" - (ditto) - WAY better than the original thanks to her and Kristin Wig ("Vig"), and the other one whose name I've forgotten where she plays a narcissitic-sociopath-scammer...is it "Identity Thief"? Think so, yeah.... She and Carey CRACK me up. Really Happy-Making films, REALLY good for battling anxiety (couple of years back). Right - beddibyes, it's 6 bleedin a.m. here (my own fault, I had a lie-in this mor- no, yesterday morning).

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...Remembered another handful: "Jacob's Ladder" (uniquely mindbending in a good way); "Being John Malcovicz" (HIGHLY original, keeps you thinking); "There's Something About Mary (when not gaffaw-ing, you're constantly giggling, again, highly original); "Rabbit-Proof Fence" (serious and amazing); "Slumdog Millionnaire" (kid-enslavement, triumph over adversity, overall a 'Feelgood'). _______________________________ "(But anyway. I'll keep this thread open, too. Because I know what choice of items come NEXT on the menu (innit), whereas,) this is 'your first rodeo'. Or IS it??? Have a thinkipoos... You might realise you 'met her before' in someone else's body?" Identified anyone(s) from your past yet? "Aaah everything is a huge mess basically, i dont even know where to start... I havent been to uni for three weeks because we are protesting and everything is falling behind." THREE WEEKS?! What are you guys protesting about, specifically? And what form is that protesting taking - marching around with banners and chanting or just downing-tools? Assuming you agree with it - have you tried offering any of the protestors your help? Now THAT would be a good in-road to forging contacts! Otherwise, you're going to need these films, eh! LOL __________________________________ Am I up-to-date with everything or have I left anything unaddressed? Oh yes! Fairly long-term steady, both parents Armenian, Bilingual family, bar the mother, so they all spoke both (but constantly translating for me, thoughtful, considerate sweeties that they were) and I picked up a lot of stuff (as did mum). Mainly 'sweet-nothings', like (phonetically) Kez shaarrd em szeeroom, Nabasdak (I love you, Bunny - ahhhhhh, haha). ...Not the mother, obviously, HAHAHA! That was more your, Please would you pass the jam...Thanks. I've always had however-much foreign friends. I don't like echo-chambers, I like to learn from any experience...swapping data and wisdom, being "deep and heavy", peppered with mucking around, being playful. Which reminds me: it helps majorly to re-name the puppy. So, knowing what's up with her now - what secret nickname would you give your "sweet 'n sour", falsely-supportive friend? Can you think of anything witty that sums-up her worst side? BTW, what's your weather system been like? Didn't you have forest-fires galore last Summer as well? What about now, during Winter? Any uncharacteristic monsoons...twisters...snow? (- wouldn't put it past any hot country these days!). You've got to have amazing staying-power and 'addiction' to intrigue to be an archeaologist, haven't you. Like historical detectives. Sometimes literally - finding now-fossilized human bones and working out some VIP was murdered, for example. You must get a lot of archeologists stumbling on fresh murder-victims as well, and calling the Police, surely? One last Q for now: So, you've the memory of an elephant, eh? That's a rare talent, that is. What's your very first memory, what age were you?

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Wait - just remembered! "I basically make small paintings, and sell them at souvenir-tourist shops. However, i kida hate it lol. I love painting and drawing, but i have to make whatever the client wants, and its usually stuff i hate. And then i have to make the same thing 100 times. Sometimes i actually like the designs though. I used to be really into drawing realistic portraits, but i somehow convinced myself i suck and stopped drawing, untill the business thing came up" Me, I adore miniatures...miniature anythings (with a few exceptions, haha)... Haven't you guys tried selling them over the internet? That way, you get to decide the subject/style and put the *finished item* up for sale, but at the same time (if you want) offering custom paintings, e.g. portrait of existing or deceased pets (that's very popular), and/or loved-ones, working from a photo. ? And then, each piece is unique, which fetches a higher price. "Etsy", for prime example? Loads of good quality art & craft-makers on there. (Or do you have a website yet?) What are your media - Goache on canvas? Watercolour? Your own method? Are you in a tourist hot-spot, then? And IS your sea that incredibly greeny-yellowy-blue? ...which reminds me, haha... (this is a scream!): YouTube Shorts: Adrian Bliss: "Picasso tries to sell a painting": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXuhJAcGpL4

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Wow thanks for the recommendations! Im planning to watch one of the Chinese ones you said today "Identified anyone(s) from your past yet?" Hmm i definitely see some common traits with my previous best friend, even if they are completely different "THREE WEEKS?! What are you guys protesting about, specifically? And what form is that protesting taking - marching around with banners and chanting or just downing-tools? Assuming you agree with it - have you tried offering any of the protestors your help? Now THAT would be a good in-road to forging contacts! Otherwise, you're going to need these films, eh! LOL" The government wants to introduce private universities, which are a huge treat to the public ones and education overall. Students with money will have to basically do nothing to get into a private university, while the other ones will have to work extremely hard to get into public ones, which are also under funded. Not to mention that a degree from a public uni will be considered inferior to a private one. Marching happens, but the reason we don't go to uni is because the students basically take over the building and shut it down. That is supposed to apply pressure to the government because nothing is working anymore. Its also very illegal, but noone really cares. Most of the professors agree with it too. "BTW, what's your weather system been like? Didn't you have forest-fires galore last Summer as well? What about now, during Winter? Any uncharacteristic monsoons...twisters...snow? (- wouldn't put it past any hot country these days!)." We have forest fires every summer, but the winter has been somewhat mild this year "You've got to have amazing staying-power and 'addiction' to intrigue to be an archeaologist, haven't you. Like historical detectives. Sometimes literally - finding now-fossilized human bones and working out some VIP was murdered, for example. You must get a lot of archeologists stumbling on fresh murder-victims as well, and calling the Police, surely?" Haha yes we do try to figure out how people died, but most of the time all we can do is make assumptions. Fresh murders, hmm i havent heard of any yet. "One last Q for now: So, you've the memory of an elephant, eh? That's a rare talent, that is. What's your very first memory, what age were you?" I wouldn't say so, im usually not very good at memorising stuff, i have to revise constantly to actually remember something. My first memory, i have no idea if its a dream, a real memory of something i imagined, so i cant really tell "Me, I adore miniatures...miniature anythings (with a few exceptions, haha)..." HAHAHA agreed though, miniatures are really cute. Isn't it weird that we could look at a completely ordinary object and find it adorable because its small? "What are your media - Goache on canvas? Watercolour? Your own method? Are you in a tourist hot-spot, then? And IS your sea that incredibly greeny-yellowy-blue?" Mostly acrylic on wood or stone. I dont live in a very touristic area, but its close to some. The colour of the sea completely depends on the area, but that colour definitely exists lol "Am I up-to-date with everything or have I left anything unaddressed?" Oh, yes i wanted to ask your opinion on why that happend "Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but:" "She used to be fine when we were together. Even when she did piss me off, i would always get over it in seconds because every time we talked, i would just forget about everything. She was awesome, made me feel special and everything. Nothing i said or did was getting judged,we talked about everything, she was always there for me and overall the perfect best friend. When she said something that annoyed me, she would always apologize before i build the courage to speak up. I think thats why i struggle to do so now, because i haven't done it before." Why do you think that everything was fine when we were together?

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"Narc (La-La Land) version of Jesus, knocking on a front door: Let me in! Home-Owner: Why? Narc Jesus: So I can save you. Home-O (careful how you say that haha): From what? Narc Jesus: From what I'm going to do to do you if you don't let me in.

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Ooops! Thought I was posting that on the other thread (I'm thinking on it, bit distract3ed)! Never mind - free joke, haha. "Oh, yes i wanted to ask your opinion on why that happend "Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but:" "She used to be fine when we were together. Even when she did piss me off, i would always get over it in seconds because every time we talked, i would just forget about everything. She was awesome, made me feel special and everything. Nothing i said or did was getting judged,we talked about everything, she was always there for me and overall the perfect best friend. When she said something that annoyed me, she would always apologize before i build the courage to speak up. I think thats why i struggle to do so now, because i haven't done it before." Why do you (suppose) that everything was fine when we were together?" Thanks for the reminder! I'll answer those two either later tonight or tomorrow night, failing that, Wednesday. I have READ your latest - it's just, getting the time AND wanting my mind free for you. Meanwhile, you forgot to answer whether you want to sieze the opportunity to make new acquaintances-into-friends? Loyalty....BEING IN THE SAME BOAT...AS CO-VICTIMS....is a brilliant bonder (just tactfully slow down anyone who goes too fast, too soon, because even for non-narcs, that's not a good idea; you need to do a FULL test-drive, under LOTS of conditions - which takes time - before you hand your money over for any 'car').

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Also - and do you have a website yet? *Just yes or no*, I'm not asking you to identify yourself by posting a link or anything (crikey, no!).

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"Meanwhile, you forgot to answer whether you want to sieze the opportunity to make new acquaintances-into-friends? Loyalty....BEING IN THE SAME BOAT...AS CO-VICTIMS....is a brilliant bonder (just tactfully slow down anyone who goes too fast, too soon, because even for non-narcs, that's not a good idea; you need to do a FULL test-drive, under LOTS of conditions - which takes time - before you hand your money over for any 'car')." I have tried- don't think that im entirely antisocial- buut i just dont seem to click with anyone, conversation is always forced and repetitive, and i hate that ALOT. I realise that it's only the beginning and things might get better, who knows? "Also - and do you have a website yet? *Just yes or no*, I'm not asking you to identify yourself by posting a link or anything (crikey, no!)." No, unfortunately a website isn't going to work out for us. In the meantime an update: Bestie is coming over for the weekend because there is huge festival going on, and she is bringing some of her friends to come to the festival and stay in her house. Yesterday she texted me that she misses me so much, and how much she loves me, and a few hours later, she says: oh and by the way, my friends are staying over so I won't be seeing you. I knew that they would be coming along already, im such an idiot, that i assumed she would tell me to come along with them. I think that out of everything, this is the most hurtful thing she's done. She knows that i have noone else to go with, and literally no reason not to take me with them. I dont understand, does she not want me to meet them? When she said that i replied: oh so I won't be meeting your friends? And she said: I don't think that you want to Like, whats that supposed to mean? I literally said i want to meet them. In my culture, it is considered a shame not to go out that night, and its extremely shitty of her to leave me alone on that day. Plus i already told my mum that she's coming over, so when i tell her im not going out shes going to ask questions. What am i supposed to say, that's shes full of shit? Im afraid im going to cry if this conversation comes up. Ugh seriously im so done with her. If she does ask me to go, my pride is killing me to say no, but i do want to leave the house.

Jealous of best friend

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Heya! Be with you asap - weekend latest!

Jealous of best friend

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Bumping you up for tomorrow - you're my first stop! But just quickly: "What am i supposed to say, that's shes full of shit?" Yup! And don't forget, pettily-but-not-so-pettily, downright Sadistic (and don't you know-know-know it now!). "Im afraid im going to cry if this conversation comes up." Afraid to do what's natural - with whom it's natural to do so??? Explain, please? It's just one night in the grand scheme of things. You're human so you'll recover and get over her. She'll always be her, always with the same 'Groundhog Day'....never getting anywhere. NEVER knowing what it feels to be loved nor contented, let alone liked or happy. Relationally, she's a ticking timebomb. Anyway - more tomorrow. ((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))))) PS: I can hear you need to type out her Rap Sheet. Trust me, it'll make you feel distinctly unloaded and soothe an awful lot of the pain. Start it tonight/in the morning if you like? On here is best; it'll help me to help you more.

Jealous of best friend

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PS: Ref your title. In fact, it's she who, amongst other self-created resentments at you, is jealous OF YOU. And not just jealous - PATHOLOGICALLY jealous - *hence*...(insert rap sheet). Google 'Narcissistic Pathological Envy and how it works". Might be exceedingly eye-opening for you. She's not treating you like this because you're pants. She's treating you like this because you're SO not pants - and she is...and can't find you inferior to her (which her ego desperately needs)...hence is trying to bring and keep you LOW. Lower than her. So she gives you sh*t AND offloads her own sh*t onto you. Victims aren't not lovely enough, they're "TOO" lovely. The girl wishes she WERE you. (Haven't you caught her coping you, your little affections, sayings, style...anything? Or does she take it to these friends so she can "be you" in secret? It's a Yes. And that's why you can't be included. Or you'd see and EVERYONE would see. (They're like fecking parrots!)

Jealous of best friend

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She's probably telling them whoppers as well.

Jealous of best friend

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Aw, what the heck, it's the weekend, I can siesta - I'll do it now. This is by a Brenda Massey on Quora, who puts things very well (clearly a victim-survivor), in response to this question: "How do narcissists have any kind of social life or maintain 鈥渇riends鈥 when their behavior is so erratic and unpredictable? I鈥檝e recently met someone who is a narcissist and I鈥檓 having trouble with their 鈥渟ilent treatments鈥 and other behavior." (Double brackets mine)) (Brenda) ....."Narcissists don鈥檛 have friends. They have supply. Most people know they have several acquaintances and possibly a handful of true friends in their life. Narcissists either believe everyone is his friend or no one is (usually the loner narcissist has some sociopathic traits mixed in). It is impossible to be friends with a narcissist because he will never allow anyone to get close enough to create or maintain a true friendship. If anyone makes the 鈥渕istake鈥 of successfully breaking down his walls that person will be devalued and swiftly discarded. It is one of the rare times a narcissist will not hoover the person who was discarded because he has seen a raw part of the narcissist. This person is now seen as a threat because he saw a moment of the narcissist鈥檚 true personality and weakness. What you see surrounding a narcissist is not a group of friends but a group of admirers and enablers. Everyone you see there, no matter how beautiful or successful, is weak and easily led. When you first meet a narcissist he is of course charming and funny, with a light in his eyes and an ability to say the right things at the right moments. Eventually, as is the case with all of his relationships, you see a different side to this person. He makes cutting remarks, he takes from you and doesn鈥檛 give anything in return, you can never count on him. You become resentful because of the way he treats you but then you see all of these other seemingly amazing people embrace him and wonder if it鈥檚 all in your head. It isn鈥檛. The reason these friends can鈥檛 see his behavior is because his behavior is only erratic and unpredictable with you. He isn鈥檛 standing the group up, hurting their feelings or humiliating them with the silent treatment. Yet. A devaluation stage with a narcissist isn鈥檛 always overtly in your face and it doesn鈥檛 always quickly move into a discard. Sometimes little jabs and little moments of sabotage can go on for years. You will convince yourself that鈥檚 just the way the narcissist is, he didn鈥檛 mean it, you鈥檙e too sensitive, he鈥檚 your friend. Perhaps there are others in the group who are experiencing tiny little cuts but because the cuts are so tiny and only occur every once in a while, it hasn鈥檛 been enough for the group members to walk away. But let鈥檚 focus on you for a second: you say you鈥檙e having issues with the narcissist鈥檚 silent treatment. There are certain behaviors which occur with certain groups of people. You will always deal with anxiety attacks with those who have an anxiety disorder. You will always deal with missing items when around a kleptomaniac. You will always deal with sleepless nights when dating a drug addict. You will always deal with silent treatments as long as a narcissist is in your life. ((...AND the rest of it!)) Silent treatments aren鈥檛 an issue in narcissism, it鈥檚 a behavior. You can鈥檛 sit him down and make this behavior go away. He won鈥檛 stop even if he promises to. It is what he gives when he has been angered, when he is jealous, when he is bored, when he needs an easy escape, when he needs entertainment, etc. It will never end. If this person is someone you would like to keep in your life, know there is no getting around the cycle of Idealize Devalue and Discard, for anyone. There is no getting around a silent treatment, which can last days or months. During these silent treatments you can choose to patiently wait it out for the narcissist to return (he will) as if you never parted and with no explanations. Of course he will have smeared you to whomever would listen and defamed your character and when others find out you two are on speaking terms again he will say he returned to you out of the goodness of his heart. If you dated him, know he spent his time with other women until you calmed down from the normal reaction you gave him during his gaslighting, stonewalling and crazy-making. He will be back if you disappear and he needs to hunt you down or until he re-idealizes you again. In the meantime what you can do is readjust what you believe this friendship is because once you can see what鈥檚 actually happening and not what the narcissist is telling you is happening, your life will be easier. Don鈥檛 be fooled by anything in a narcissist鈥檚 life, including groups of friends and family who enable him. These people actually are fools who believe the years they鈥檝e known the narcissist or the sick hoovering and harassment they鈥檝e engaged in on behalf of the narcissist has shielded them from his wrath. They鈥檙e no more protected than you and I. A narcissist is loyal to no one and will attack anyone who is a perceived threat. Because these friends have seen years of chaos and cruelty and know all of the narcissist鈥檚 secrets it has only bought them more time and ensured their discard will end in flames." _____________________________________________ Here's another high likelihood for you: She isn't seeing anyone or going ANYWHERE, but will be damned if she'll let YOU think that. So she lies (or grossly exaggerates) because she's (always) competing against you and trying to use the Scarcity Principle on you (buy me before stocks run out!!!). She wants you to chase after her/pump-up her ever-deflating ego, and even harder than ever before to (wait for it) compensate for the fact she's now in Young Adult territory (university), not still at school with less wise, savvy, informed, experienced, KIDS. I'm sure she's being seen-through an awful lot, now. And pretty-much instantly. Not least because she DOES only fit and make sense in a school playground setting with kids her age. At Uni, she's sticking out like a sore thumb for the CHILD IN GROWN-UP SUIT that she is....and this latest stunt prove-prove-proves it, HENCE, why she BASICALLY said, You don't want to (meet them). Mystery solved. When they tell you wouldn't want to go, wouldn't like it, yadder-yadder, it's either because you'd ruin their false image and lies OR because THERE ISN'T ANY 'PARTY' (or if there is - she/he ain't invited). If it's NOT a lie, then, it's preservation of her lies AND, as the article says, she simply hasn't needed to turn any of THEM into her personal, toxicity-puking/dumping toilet. Yet. She's still trying to impress them to win them round...which will be taking her longer these days, requiring her to work/fake-it FAR harder than in the good old days...needing to discharge the ickiness of BEING NICE TO PEOPLE by calling in at her pit stop (you). She will (prematurely!) pick on another person the minute YOU bow-out, though. Why don't you bow out...make up some reason why you won't be able to see her for the next 6-8 weeks - anything she can't disprove (Out Narc-ing The Narc - lie using their fave: Plausible Deniability).... E.g. got Covid so just gonna self-quarantine and study-study-study. Or just one Cold bug after another. Whatever. Just so's she has to use someone else as a toilet for the first time. Someone from that group, maybe. I'm going to give it to you straight. Bear in mind you've got me/this place - and can talk to/respond to others here, too: Having this Narcissistic-Sociopath (oh yes - the sadism proves it) in your life and in your mind (even at times you aren't aware you're thinking/processing about her), makes your vibe off-putting to healthies. Try a break and see if it's like someone waved a magic wand. As for repetitive conversation: yeah, that's Uni for ya. YOU NEED A CLUB. You can talk about the interest/hobby, which WON'T be repetitive because your skill and produce will be evolving the whole time. What fun art/skill - or indeed, fun group sport - has always appealed to you? Any extra-curricular clubs/groups at your Uni? You need to be chatting as you're doing or learning something, and be in the same boat. Can you think of anything? Reason I ask is because of this fact: you're at your most attractive you'll ever be, when you're doing something you love, something new and fascinating or something challenging.... when engrossed and having fun. Fac-e-tah. So tuh-ry one. Si?...worth a think? This snub is an opportunity to call Time Out or Dealbreaker. But it'll be easier if you sign up to some club. Or, indeed - start one!

Jealous of best friend

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Hey! Im going to answer to yours later, cause i have an update: things somehow got even worse: at friday she texted me if i wanted to go out with them at night, as i said my pride was killing me to say no but i wanted to go out, so i said yes. Then she told me that it wasn't sure they were going, and she was going to tell me for sure in a while. I waited for hours and nothing. In the end i texted her: i assume we aren't going and she just replied: no The next day she said that her friends ended up getting very drunk and i, now very suspicious said: you guys got drunk inside the house for what? And she just said, i dont know At this point i was sure that they had just gone out without me, so i found one of her friends on Instagram whose account wasn't private, and surely enough he had posted a story from outside. Now to be fair, he could have gone by himself with other people, but what are the chances? Im sure that if we talk in the future, i will be able to find out for sure. She also said that she was going for cofee with her personal trainer, while the rest of the group was meeting someone else. She chose to meet her PERSONAL TRAINER and not her best friend when she had the chance. Im acting like i don't care anymore, isn't that the best thing to do?

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Oh also, you forgot to answer this: "Oh, yes i wanted to ask your opinion on why that happend "Yeah, she may have been fine when the world was still normal, but:" "She used to be fine when we were together. Even when she did piss me off, i would always get over it in seconds because every time we talked, i would just forget about everything. She was awesome, made me feel special and everything. Nothing i said or did was getting judged,we talked about everything, she was always there for me and overall the perfect best friend. When she said something that annoyed me, she would always apologize before i build the courage to speak up. I think thats why i struggle to do so now, because i haven't done it before." Why do you (suppose) that everything was fine when we were together?" Thanks for the reminder! I'll answer those two either later tonight or tomorrow night, failing that, Wednesday.

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PS: See how she deliberately soft-soaped you in preparation so that you'd REALLY feel the ensuing blow? If she were standing in front of us right now, I WOULD tear strips off her (her false ones) until she was in the foetal position for you. That's how dis-GUSTING the spoiled baby is! "Mostly acrylic on wood or stone." I bloody love that stuff! And you're deep so I'll bet they're bloody good. Most, these days, however, tend to be images printed onto wood, where you see the texture of the grain mixed-in with the image (the *visible* notches everywhere destroy or interfere with the image, though...too prominent. Hand-painted is superior, and is you putting 'you' into it. Any reeason why you couldn't start an art class?...talk it over with your uni admin department? You'd be teacher! Sell the idea on the basis that these would make low-cost Xmas and Birthday gifts - and include other forageable media, e.g., painting large pebbles (I've got one with just a message, that goes, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy'...I barely drink but it made me laugh because I love plays on words/phrases? I mean, whom in your age-group can even afford shop-bought presents any more? Idea? YOU'RE AN ARTIST...INSIGHTFUL (- think about it!..planning your creation in your head before or as you start to paint) CREATIVE - *THOSE* TYPES ARE *BOUND* TO BE YOUR 'BIRDS OF A FEATHER' with whom you should be 'flocking together' (know that saying - Birds of a feather, flock together?). I realise you won't feel like it just yet while you're having to get over this (hopefully) Final Insult, as I call it. It is SO horrid - I know. But - you need a project, that's what you need (is what all victims need, frankly). Meantime, read all the other Posters' threads and see if one grabs you so much, you forget any nervousness about replying...once you do that, it's easy-peasy from there. You have rich and valuable experience to share so that OTHER posters don't keep thinking there must be something wrong with THEM. Helping - or even just being there/being friendly and chatty, and focusing on other people in trouble, is THE fastest way to repair the chunks bitten off your poor ego and self-esteem. You could even draft it here before you post it if you want me to check it sounds okay (part of the mentoring I offer). Or just read them to appreciate that what's happening to you is and has been happening to millions of lovely, decent people out there? You are NOT alone and friendless. Consider this your personal club where you can be true You and with full liberty to unload your feelings, until you're ready to 'fly the nest'. PLUS, it's something interesting and different that you can talk about! Other empaths will be interested....consider it a piece of Litmus Paper. If they're interested - fellow Empath; if not - "Neext!...". And for your reassuring information - I find nothing wrong with you, enjoy your posts/chatting to you, am in total awe that you're only 18 AND YET I feel like I'm talking to an equal, despite you still naturally lack *experience* (you've got the rest of the Whole Package though - including higher than average maturity) ... it honestly not you. It's her, and how she makes you feel (un-attractive, uninteresting, all of that 'trying to solve the mystery' by blaming yourself because at least it seems to explain her madness (nope)... She's a rotten COW - and b*tch. All on top of, nutjob. UGH. Not fit to lick your boots WT. AND SHE KNOWS IT (because she behaves it). Don't worry...feeling this horrible way never lasts. It's not the new you or anything (very common fear). More a rite of passage that practically everyone here - and everywhere! - has been through. And PPS - the Why (which, to Normals, is too petty for words but how their mental disorder makes them see/think/feel)... Note the common denominator. Me: "Nope. Nope-nope-nope: the admission that she lacked friends suddenly, was true. At that point, she was too low for pride to get a look in (she must have been on the floor!). But, all too soon, her ego kicked back into puffed-up-ness, meaning, she couldn't take having made herself that vulnerable to you...the thought was making her cringe. So what did she do? What they all do: lied that everything was suddenly transformed for the better." Brenda: "It is impossible to be friends with a narcissist because ((she)) will never allow anyone to get close enough to create or maintain a true friendship. If anyone ((you)) makes the 鈥渕istake鈥 of successfully breaking down ((her)) walls that person will be devalued ((which is what's been happening since)) and swiftly ((- not necessarily swiftly)) discarded. This person ((you)) is now seen as a threat because ((you)) saw a moment of the narcissist鈥檚 true personality and weakness." (They cannot STAND the fact someone saw them 'small' and NOT cocksure at all. It makes them feel bad and ("cuckoo!") resentment at you...and that then becomes YOUR fault for which you must be punished with said massively ((- Pathological-level)) out-of-proportion resentment ("cuckoo!").) Basically, you got to see that the 'Emperor' was NOT wearing any fine, new clothes (know that story too?). Someone getting to see how Vulnerability is their (warped/arse-about-face) Kryptonite, where we normals feel RELIEVED and more bonded than ever before. They don't work right. They're like out-of-order vending machines whereby there's no sign telling you, the 'customer', so you end up shoving in more and more good money after bad (the Investment Principle) until you feel cheated and made a fool of. It's them that are the fools, though. So DO NOT change You - change your friend (Fiend/Frenemy). Right Qualities - Yours; WRONG Recipient - Her.

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And a PS to Brenda: They're not fools, Brenda (you have more self-educating to do). They are The Fooled. Diff/all the diff. But yes to weak-minded (all except for you - that's "your trouble" (not)). Oh, you've posted again! Hi! Hang on...

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"Im acting like i don't care anymore, isn't that the best thing to do?" Absobloodylutely, it is! They cannot - LITERALLY cannot - tolerate or handle being ignored. It'll tip her into Narc Rage (they barely any self-regulation and -control ability to begin with!), and she won't be able to help but act/react badly or explosively (hair-triggerable) in front of those she's trying to impress - including her ...PERSONAL TRAINER? Who has coffee with their, basically, short-term employee? Answer: those desperate for company-any-company - and from the PT's point of view, those that have registered and understood the tactic condition to keeping said client: be my "new friend" to crow about to my victim and make her feel Less Than even someone paid to be with me - and I'll continue to be your client. I wouldn't be so sure she was there. How much would you be willing to virtual-bet on that? I'd put up a good 100 Quid... She NEEDS you. Think of yourself as her make-up-bag. Without you, she's actually too ugly to mix with others. You're her unwitting Enabler (google). So it's like this: just by sensibly (keeping your eyes on the prize of new, better friends coming into your life) removing yourself from her vicinity, her make-up falls off and those she's trying to impress and hook, run away screaming (well, shuffle - or ghost....cowards, remember?). But she'd never tell YOU that. Or you'd grow in confidence, and she can't have that! GOLD STAR!

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Hey! I have been feeling terrible overall this week plus i have been having some insane mood swings and on top of that my mom got sick. I texted my friend again (i wasn't supposed to i know) but she replied, came up a million excuses about why she didn't take me with her, told me how much she misses me and that the reason she doesn't talk to me that much anymore is because she knows that no matter what i will be there.( I interpret it as: i know you dont have anyone else, so you'll put up with anything)Then she proceeded to drag her new friends, saying that she doesn't trust them, she cant really talk to them, that they call her a liar and that one of them called her a slut for making out with a random guy. ( I wish i could send you screenshots of our conversations at this point) I barely replied anything and i feel worse than i did when we weren't talking.

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"Im afraid im going to cry if this conversation comes up." Afraid to do what's natural - with whom it's natural to do so??? Explain, please?" Ah yes crying and me have a complicated relationship. Every time i say "crying" i mean it metaphorically, because i havent been able to cry in about 5 years, i think, at least not from any negative emotion- or physical pain ( i cry from laughter all the time) but never when im in pain. I have no idea why and its extremely frustrating.

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"Victims aren't not lovely enough, they're "TOO" lovely. The girl wishes she WERE you. (Haven't you caught her coping you, your little affections, sayings, style...anything? Or does she take it to these friends so she can "be you" in secret?" Im not seeing a reason why anyone, especially her would be would to be me, or even be jealous of me. I am forgettable. Noone approaches me, noone wants to be my friend. She is basically the better version of me. She shines everywhere she goes and naturally attracts people. The only thing i attract is the force of gravity. Im sorry that im speaking like this about myself but this is one of my bad, BAD days. And it's all true. Im insecure to the point that if someone came up at me and told me they like me, i would think its a prank and wait for the cameras to pull up.

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"PS: I can hear you need to type out her Rap Sheet. Trust me, it'll make you feel distinctly unloaded and soothe an awful lot of the pain. Start it tonight/in the morning if you like? On here is best; it'll help me to help you more." I have no clue what a rap sheet is. I googled it, apparently its a criminal record? Do you mean to list everything bad she has done? I have told you all of it already, as i said, our relationship was perfect before she moved away. I always thought we were soulmates, we were like the same person in a different front, me the introvert and her, the extrovert. We were opposites at everything, but we fit together perfectly. I was always aware that i was her "side kick" but i was fine with that. I felt honoured that out of the people she was friends with, she chose me to be her best friend. If you know about the sixteen personalities, it will help you understand the dynamics between us. Im an infp and she is an enfj. The mediator and the protagonist.

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Heya! Sorry about the delay - horrendously busy week! Aiming to post tomorrow or Sunday latest. But yes - Emotional Crime Sheet. It'd be best to start one now, from the very first thing/change you noticed, no matter how slight or subtle.

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Had trouble with the internet connection - sozzies. Just bumping you up for tomorrow. :)

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Mar 19 2024 at 21:13/1st post: "Hey! I have been feeling terrible overall this week plus i have been having some insane mood swings and on top of that my mom got sick." I'm so sorry. What's she got? "I texted my friend again (i wasn't supposed to i know)" Weren't you? Who said? I thought you were going to start slowly re-training her first? Just to be sure-sure-sure she can't be/is not healthy to keep in your life? "but she replied, came up a million excuses about why she didn't take me with her," Tell me aboudid... 'people' with NPD all have basically the same playbook, narrative and script... What did your text say? Precisely how long did she take to read and then reply? " told me how much she misses me and that the reason she doesn't talk to me that much anymore is because she knows that no matter what i will be there." WHAT THE SERIOUS F*CK???????????????? OH MY GOD. I can't remember the last time I heard cockiness and over-entitled-entitlement(!) THAT HUGE! BLOODY HELL, WT - WHAT THE - WHAT?!?! "( I interpret it as: i know you dont have anyone else, so you'll put up with anything)" WORSE THAN THAT!?! - "I OWN YOU...AT MY CONVENIENCE AND MINE ALONE". I am...woah... speechless but SO INSULTED on your behalf! This has---I'm stuttering. I didn't realise she was this big/serious. Yeah - no, you can't 'live' with that, mate - no way. You're going to have to ditch. Not only that, but your life is soooo going to improve like bloody magic once you've grieved her the rest of the way out - trust me on that! OMG. "Then she proceeded to drag her new friends, saying that she doesn't trust them, she cant really talk to them, that they call her a liar and that one of them called her a slut for making out with a random guy. ( I wish i could send you screenshots of our conversations at this point)" In other words, they've seen through her, and she doesn't trust that they'll be the 'adoring' fan that you are (were) (just because you were too young to know a thing about NPD/AsPD). (They're not.) Can I do my Toldja So dance now? (said wryly, regretfully) "I barely replied anything and i feel worse than i did when we weren't talking." What exactly did you say? And - yes - of course you do. She made sure of that. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SHE DOES WHENEVER SHE NEEDS A VICTIM TOO ON-THE-FLOOR TO DEFEND HERSELF. But you've said you barely said anything (actions! - Gold Star!) so - HAH! to (arrogance like that? - no question!) Narcospathypoo-poos. Now you're going to grieve because you've seen for yourself this time with eyes wider-opened, that your once-bestie's psychology/sanity was always, bit-by-bit, day-by-day, disintegrating. Now the 'forgotten', negative moments you 'shared' with her should start popping in.... (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((GIANT HUG)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) (Bloody Nora)

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Have you been keeping up with Thea's thread? You two are now 'twins'. Doesn't matter the nature of the fauxlationship. Narc iz Narc/Narc-Spath is Narc-Spath. Seriously....... Do you know what the physical equivalent to that disgusting response of hers would be? Answer: Not just spitting - FLOBBING in your face. Who the BEEP does she think she is!!!! More to the point - who the beep does she think YOU are! Putting aside the betrayal feelings - how angry are you right now?

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Please do go read the latest, including, especially, the pasted-in articles, on Thea's thread?

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The fact you can't cry is because you don't have the luxury of TIME to cry while a predator is still in your midst (and your Fight-Or-Flight system was already on High Alert). Once the danger is well and truly over - THEN you will. Evolutionary design byproduct: if, on sudden approach of a Sabre Toothed Tiger, your ancestors had wasted escape time by crying, they'd have got eaten and, you wouldn't exist. Crying Can Wait. Basically. You're still in the process of trying to understand it all and - not just apply what you know about NPD/AsPD to her, but, now, apply her to NPD/AsPD (which she just very helpfully did for you). Anti-Social (tick!) No Shame (tick!) Literally unbelievably arrogant, insulting and downright humiliating to your face (tick!). NSpaths are the spitters/flobbers. NO SHAME. A straight Narc's ego couldn't TAKE living with knowing you know they did that (and even could). NPD/AsPD. Flobbing in someone's face is considered the (psychological version) most violent act one human can do to another. I expect you're still too much in shock to cry, anyway. She is a monster. She WAS a person, once. Now she's a monster. I need a wee break after that giant development as well - going to take the opportunity to eat something and then come back on. Bear with...

Jealous of best friend

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No good, not hungry enough yet... 2nd post: ""Im afraid im going to cry if this conversation comes up." Afraid to do what's natural - with whom it's natural to do so??? Explain, please?" Ah yes crying and me have a complicated relationship. Every time i say "crying" i mean it metaphorically, because i havent been able to cry in about 5 years, i think, at least not from any negative emotion- or physical pain ( i cry from laughter all the time) but never when im in pain. I have no idea why and its extremely frustrating." Ah, you've misconstrued. I mean, why wouldn't you be able to freely show your perfectly rational emotions with your mother/family? I presume that's who you meant the conversation would come up with? Or have I misconstrued and you meant, with Fiend?

Jealous of best friend

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3rd post: """Victims aren't not lovely enough, they're "TOO" lovely. The girl wishes she WERE you. (Haven't you caught her coping you, your little affections, sayings, style...anything? Or does she take it to these friends so she can "be you" in secret?" Im not seeing a reason why anyone, especially her would be would to be me, or even be jealous of me. I am forgettable. Noone approaches me, noone wants to be my friend. She is basically the better version of me. She shines everywhere she goes and naturally attracts people. The only thing i attract is the force of gravity. Im sorry that im speaking like this about myself but this is one of my bad, BAD days. And it's all true. Im insecure to the point that if someone came up at me and told me they like me, i would think its a prank and wait for the cameras to pull up."" So, you thought Little Miss Popular-Fantastic (back then) picked someone as 'lowly' as you becaaaaauuuuuuse? She's an undercover charity worker? Er - NO. So how does someone like that end up choosing you if you're truly so 'nothing'? If it doesn't make sense, it's either a lie or a fear talking (both mixed together in your case). You're insecure because your 'sister' has all along been a Narc-Spath. They are well-known for HAVING that effect. That's why you're (chronically) insecure. That's not hard to fix. Starting the fixing - by dumping or shuffling big-time further away from HER. Or out-Narcing her and, using sleight of hand, putting a (number of) leash(es) on her. She shines everywhere she goes - except in private, only with you, when she goes as far as flobs in your face with unbridled self-aggrandizement and outright - OUTRIGHT - contempt. She shines because she's radioactive. And people go, 'Ooooh....shiny....what's that, let me see...'. EVIDENCE TOO-CLEARLY SHOWS SO. CASE NOW CLOSED (in terms of identifying her). And what am I - chopped Liver? :p Maybe she's shiny to other Narcs and you were more Narc-like back then purely by virtue of still being a child (whom get taught to cease being Narcissistic) (except during genuinely tough times - toddlerdom...teenagedom). *I* - think YOU are the genuinely shiny one. And I think my actions back that up (given my time-constraints). Who you gonna believe? She's not fit to lick your boots! She's not even fit to lick, full-stop!

Jealous of best friend

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Last post: ""PS: I can hear you need to type out her Rap Sheet. Trust me, it'll make you feel distinctly unloaded and soothe an awful lot of the pain. Start it tonight/in the morning if you like? On here is best; it'll help me to help you more." I have no clue what a rap sheet is. I googled it, apparently its a criminal record? Do you mean to list everything bad she has done? I have told you all of it already, as i said, our relationship was perfect before she moved away. I always thought we were soulmates, we were like the same person in a different front, me the introvert and her, the extrovert. We were opposites at everything, but we fit together perfectly. I was always aware that i was her "side kick" but i was fine with that. I felt honoured that out of the people she was friends with, she chose me to be her best friend. If you know about the sixteen personalities, it will help you understand the dynamics between us. Im an infp and she is an enfj. The mediator and the protagonist." This will be easier to do, now. Additionally, it'll also be a lot easier (sorry - was under time-pressure) if you include in your rap-sheet, what she (drum roll)..........FAILED (refused, wriggled out of, excused, justified, deterred, etc.) TO DO....that a genuine friend should and would do (or would apologise and make up for). Include what she would fail to SAY. Just - any moves - towards you IN-directly as well as directly - that she failed to make and deterred YOU from making, as left you hurt, confused and ruminating over. WHEN YOU'RE READY, I mean. For now, you need to molly-coddle yourself and spoil yourself rotten, as well as be your own "tough-love" parent (e.g. eat your Greens).

Jealous of best friend

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PS: I was also going to say (when I didn't have time)... "Im an infp and she is an enfj." She bloody isn't, you know. You've got to be Normal/Neurotypical to be that. She doesn't even HAVE a personality! It's kaput! Hence - 'Narcissistic-Sociopathic Personality Disorder. She should literally have a sign (tattood on her forehead), saying, 'Out Of Order'. ...And underneath - 'Please Consult Management on Tel. 666'.

Jealous of best friend

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PS: "*I* - think YOU are the genuinely shiny one. And I think my actions back that up (given my time-constraints). Who you gonna believe?" ...And no replying - 'Ghostbusters!' ;D

Jealous of best friend

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Hey! I feel completely fine now by the way. "texted my friend again (i wasn't supposed to i know)" Weren't you? Who said? I thought you were going to start slowly re-training her first? Just to be sure-sure-sure she can't be/is not healthy to keep in your life?" The initial plan was to wait for her to text me first, to see how long it would take her. But in the end, I wanted to check up on her, because sometimes crazy stuff happens at that festival. "What did your text say? Precisely how long did she take to read and then reply?" I just said:"are you alive?" Since three days had passed without hearing from her, and she replied right away. "told me how much she misses me and that the reason she doesn't talk to me that much anymore is because she knows that no matter what i will be there." WHAT THE SERIOUS F*CK???????????????? OH MY GOD. I can't remember the last time I heard cockiness and over-entitled-entitlement(!) THAT HUGE! BLOODY HELL, WT - WHAT THE - WHAT?!?!" Yeah... More specifically, she said: "i know we don't talk that much anymore, but its because i know you'll be there no matter what, unlike <name of another friend of hers> who demands i text her everyday". I genuinely believe she doesn't know what she said is hurtful, or even problematic. She probably meant it as a compliment. The comparison was totally uncalled-for. ( This girl is one of those who i was friends with in high school, and then she never spoke to me again lol) "I barely replied anything and i feel worse than i did when we weren't talking." What exactly did you say?" I just said something like:" yeah whatever" She also told me she feels super guilty about what happened and that she is going to make it up to me. "Have you been keeping up with Thea's thread?" I have tried, its a lot to go through "Putting aside the betrayal feelings - how angry are you right now?" Right now, not at all, at that moment i wasn't angry either, just hurt. I can never stay mad at her, that's the issue, i always just forget it and move on, and i dont know how to not forgive her. "Ah, you've misconstrued. I mean, why wouldn't you be able to freely show your perfectly rational emotions with your mother/family? I presume that's who you meant the conversation would come up with? Or have I misconstrued and you meant, with Fiend?" Yes, i meant my mother. It's because we dont.. do that. In general. "So, you thought Little Miss Popular-Fantastic (back then) picked someone as 'lowly' as you becaaaaauuuuuuse? She's an undercover charity worker? Er - NO." Don't get me wrong, i was very upset when i wrote that, im the best friend she has ever had and im a great person, im aware of that, but she is the best friend i have ever had too. It's not easy for me to see her the way you do. I have only told you the bad stuff after all, and from my perspective. "This will be easier to do, now. Additionally, it'll also be a lot easier (sorry - was under time-pressure) if you include in your rap-sheet, what she (drum roll)..........FAILED (refused, wriggled out of, excused, justified, deterred, etc.) TO DO....that a genuine friend should and would do (or would apologise and make up for). Include what she would fail to SAY. Just - any moves - towards you IN-directly as well as directly - that she failed to make and deterred YOU from making, as left you hurt, confused and ruminating over." I will do it at some point, but i have started to doubt myself, now that im not upset, i keep thinking maybe i was overreacting? I don't think her intention was to hurt me with anything. She was just being ignorant, and had a "she's wont be mad at me for this" mindset. Maybe it's my fault? In the end i always tell her its okay, whatever. So maybe she thinks that nothing really annoys me? After all the previous drama, we started talking every day again. It made me feel like the old times again. And an important update: Next friday I'll be going to her house and staying for three days. I won't be going on my own, but with another girl who's also a friend of her's but very recently we started talking more, so maybe after this we'll become close. I also think i started making friends at uni, well, not exactly friends, but you know what i mean. Another thing i have been thinking a lot: i feel super guilty about coming here and talking about her, and then talking to her like nothing happened, and now even going to stay at her house. I'm feeling like, ultra two- faced.

Jealous of best friend

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Heya! Sorry - not ignoring you, but ABCD was 'against the clock'. Be with you asap.

Jealous of best friend

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Hey-hey! "The initial plan was to wait for her to text me first, to see how long it would take her. But in the end, I wanted to check up on her, because sometimes crazy stuff happens at that festival." Next time, by when you'll feel surer, you'll be able to hold out and not reach for an excuse more befitting of the mother-teenage-daughter relationship. (Google, "Narcissist - Parentifying the victim"). "What did your text say? Precisely how long did she take to read and then reply?" I just said:"are you alive?" Since three days had passed without hearing from her, and she replied right away." Good that you kept it brief. Replying right away happens (ostensibly illogically, if you think about it) because they're waiting and watching the whole time, to see if and by when YOU'LL crack. You have to crack first. If you do, they get to measure how much power they still have over you in addition to whether the Silent Treatment pushes your buttons and gets a reaction (crack first lest you never see me again). It worked...so she'll use that weapon again. The good news, however, is that, because you now KNOW it was a battle of wills for power-stripping purposes, next time you'll be unlikely to. "told me how much she misses me" (Those dangly digits attached to her hands, called Fingers, could and would have put paid to that so, unless someone chopped them off - what ollocks.) "and that the reason she doesn't talk to me that much anymore is because she knows that no matter what i will be there." "Yeah... More specifically, she said: "i know we don't talk that much anymore, but its because i know you'll be there no matter what, unlike <name of another friend of hers> who demands i text her everyday"." 1. (*puke*) Which entitled attitude (as goes BEYOND taking you for-granted), I'm afraid, you've just re-bolstered. However, you can 'switch things up' any time you like, AND by different avenues of warranted defiance/rebellion, so, all is not lost. Added to this is the fact that you managed 3 whole days this time. ...I mean - I'm presuming it was longer than before? 2. HOWEVER, the whole point of maintaining consistent contact is to keep the bloody friendship alive! 3. She's Parentified you alright. She expects the unconditional love belonging to the parent-child relationship, look. (And there was you, thinking you were quasi sisters...equals.) She thinks she can treat you as inconsiderately or downright shoddily as she likes, whenever she likes, and you won't ever have the balls to put your foot down while fully-prepared to lose the unhealthy union, that (LIKE a mother) you don't have it in you, that it'd be impossible (because she's your secret baby (never mind her posturing air of superiority). At some point you're going to have to show her she's wrong or things will never improve. 4. That's a Triangulation attempt (google). They do this with romantic partners, too. They recriminate the third party because it reflexively makes you try to DO BETTER than this other 'competitor' and 'win' (get chosen). 5. I genuinely believe she doesn't know what she said is hurtful, or even problematic." I don't. For myriad reasons and especially now, knowing she answered immediately as flew in the face of the illusion that she was simply too busy and distracted with other things/people. It was a boundary test-come-punishment, and a perfectly common one with NPDs. Also, depending on the tenure, best female friends do tend to speak daily (if they're both free to). You need to be SURE she isn't aware, not just, hoping she isn't. Again - just be ready to hold out next time. It'll reveal so much more to you. To make her behaviour and attitude change - you need to change yours first...shake things up a bit (slowly/carefully does it)....so that she has to put in more effort or lose the privilege of a loyal and steadfast friend like you. "She probably meant it as a compliment." What is she - so mentally backward that her compliments end up offending you? (Come off it.) "The comparison was totally uncalled-for. ( This girl is one of those who i was friends with in high school, and then she never spoke to me again lol)" No, it was called-for, it's called Triangulation. She's trying to get two people fighting over her...that one is an ego banquet...an All You Can Eat buffet. Enables (ENABLES) her to kid herself she's that desirable, AND being able to set other people off is one of their fave forms of entertainment. "I barely replied anything and i feel worse than i did when we weren't talking." What exactly did you say?" I just said something like:" yeah whatever" GOLD STAR! That is the perfect answer. :) "She also told me she feels super guilty about what happened and that she is going to make it up to me." Oh yeah? This, we'd like to see, eh. Watch that space, then. "Have you been keeping up with Thea's thread?" I have tried, its a lot to go through" A bit... But you're worth it. ;) "Putting aside the betrayal feelings - how angry are you right now?" Right now, not at all, at that moment i wasn't angry either, just hurt. I can never stay mad at her, that's the issue, i always just forget it and move on, and i dont know how to not forgive her." Roger that. This is common amongst victims of Coverts. As I keep saying around here - for as long as they need 'you', they're careful not to actually cross any boundary line...just bumping threateningly into it here, there and everywhere. Conscious You would rather sweep it under the rug at her behavioural behest, anyway, because it too-quickly seems such a hassle for what was 'just' a flash-in-the-pan (death by a thousand papercuts). Because, it's not what they've done; it's what they've done ON TOP OF what they did before-before-before-before and never made it up to you for. You wait until that load hits critical as your inner animal/warrior continues to keep score. Meanwhile, Conscious You still feels constantly precarious in your position with them, never knowing where you moreover stand, and has that urge to see this whole thing through in order precisely to find out for yourself. Eventually your scoreboard alarm goes off, the security shutters come crashing down, and it's Game over...they've kicked every last drop of love out of you and you, and there's nothing you can do about it. To your own surprise, you find you can't wait to get rid, don't want to go within 10ft of them, let alone finish your 'exploration' for sake of understanding and closure. Dumping them has been done for you. So you have limited time if counter-manipulation and power-dynamic readjustment for the sake of a tolerable friendship is still your aim? "Ah, you've misconstrued. I mean, why wouldn't you be able to freely show your perfectly rational emotions with your mother/family? I presume that's who you meant the conversation would come up with? Or have I misconstrued and you meant, with Fiend?" Yes, i meant my mother. It's because we dont.. do that. In general." Ah! There it is... The Mother Ship. There always is one when we put up with behaviour that others wouldn't. Why aren't you two close, like you should be? Is this why you need this quasi sister and are trying to find ways to tolerate her?...because she's been part of your life, growing-up and kind of filled a gap your mum left? "So, you thought Little Miss Popular-Fantastic (back then) picked someone as 'lowly' as you becaaaaauuuuuuse? She's an undercover charity worker? Er - NO." Don't get me wrong, i was very upset when i wrote that, im the best friend she has ever had and im a great person, im aware of that, but she is the best friend i have ever had too. It's not easy for me to see her the way you do. I have only told you the bad stuff after all, and from my perspective." GOOD! That's much better! You wait until you get an EQUAL Bestie, you're in for a treat (and the surprise of your life)! You're still the nicer, better person out of the two of you, though. No question. "This will be easier to do, now. Additionally, it'll also be a lot easier (sorry - was under time-pressure) if you include in your rap-sheet, what she (drum roll)..........FAILED (refused, wriggled out of, excused, justified, deterred, etc.) TO DO....that a genuine friend should and would do (or would apologise and make up for). Include what she would fail to SAY. Just - any moves - towards you IN-directly as well as directly - that she failed to make and deterred YOU from making, as left you hurt, confused and ruminating over." I will do it at some point, but i have started to doubt myself, now that im not upset, i keep thinking maybe i was overreacting?" You'll probably get the urge to do it the very next time she offends your sensitivities all over again (so keep posting/chatting to keep your thread open and ready). But that's okay. What's happening to you is a process, which is still ongoing. Again - the impact of the offence wearing-off too quickly is how it goes (hence 'death by a thousand papercuts'). But your bucket of collected/never evaporated, i.e. left unresolved, drips (papercuts), clearly IS that bit too full already, hence you just came very close. "I don't think her intention was to hurt me with anything. She was just being ignorant, and had a "she's wont be mad at me for this" mindset." She's not a retard. Don't make excuses for her that belong to primary-school-age kids. "Maybe it's my fault?" All victims wonder that, empaths especially. Answer: NOPE. Literally not possible where NPD-victim dynamics are concerned. Ask and I'll explain. But, basically, an underling/slave - manifested in this case as, her treating you like an unfeeling stuffed toy in her toybox - has no say so can't be blamed for any part in 'the say'. That simple. "In the end i always tell her its okay, whatever. So maybe she thinks that nothing really annoys me?" Again - not a retard. "After all the previous drama, we started talking every day again. It made me feel like the old times again." As long as it's not just her Hoovering you back into where you were before you started...lulling and love-bombing you. Let's see if she keeps it up, even if it relaxes into 4 times per week. (Just what's NORMAL for friends would do, eh.) That's why I think you should do the rap-sheet now. If she upsets you again, it'll be hard to write it. You need the clear and calm head you've got NOW, to ensure it's objective/a true reflection. "And an important update: Next friday I'll be going to her house and staying for three days." That's an interesting transformation? Or is it a reversion to how things always used to be like before uni? Has your 3-day hold-out been so uncharacteristic of you that you actually DID get through her cloth-ears and -head? Let's wait and see. "I won't be going on my own, but with another girl who's also a friend of her's but very recently we started talking more, so maybe after this we'll become close." Ah-hah! Fingers crossed! It's good practise, anyway. "I also think i started making friends at uni, well, not exactly friends, but you know what i mean." Yeah. Acquaintances with potential for growing a relationship with. :) That is EXCELLENT news! And what tends to happen is, once you get ONE friend under your belt - along comes another...and another....and, next thing you know, you find you're faced with a NEW problem - of having too MANY friends to maintain! (It's exceedingly difficult finding just the right number, don't you find?) Well...you've had an awakening. That in itself adds to your allure. :) It's in your vibe. We humans don't sniff each others' bottoms like dogs, but, unbeknownst to us, we're still having a damn good sniff (and there's data in that stuff, there is!). Another thing i have been thinking a lot: i feel super guilty about coming here and talking about her, and then talking to her like nothing happened, and now even going to stay at her house. I'm feeling like, ultra two- faced. But - just to indulge your (understandable) neurosis: If she wrote your rap-sheet, what is it you think she'd have on it? (I just KNOW it's going to remind me of that bat-back quip of mine, in response to the (caveman) question, 'Are you good in bed?'. I say, 'Yeah - brilliant. I don't leave biscuit crumbs, and always go straight to sleep!'. I.e., it'd be a lot of nothing, but, go ahead and prove me wrong?...just as an exercise as another way to grow back your confidence? PS: While we're waiting to see how things go - feel free to talk about your mum and family life? That's usually where the tendency to over-tolerate and -endure (and normalise) stems from. Or teenage peers and friends.

Jealous of best friend

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Tsk - missed the final para: "Another thing i have been thinking a lot: i feel super guilty about coming here and talking about her, and then talking to her like nothing happened, and now even going to stay at her house. I'm feeling like, ultra two- faced." Naah. You wouldn't have needed to come here if she'd been behaving herself and not making you feel worthless to her (and all who sail in her). Her fault. You wouldn't feel guilty if (accidentally or not) she'd punched you in the stomach, caused internal bleeding, and you'd had to go straight to hospital, would you. You'd feel hurt, angry and resentful; the amount directly proportionate with the seriousness of the injury and amount of rehabilitation. This is like emotional hospital. Self-recrimination Attempt - FAIL. Nice try, though, haha. Sucker for Guilt much? PLEASE stop abusing yourself FOR them (whomever they are/were)? It's just b*llocks. Whether it was a bit true ONCE?... who cares. TODAY, you're a perfectly lovely, interesting to chat to, young lady...a young Gentlewoman (classy). You got lengthily distracted from the journey of getting to know yourself...given too much hassle as left you no time or brain-space. You're wildly out-of-date now. Time to start looking at your young adult self, where you are, how you got there, the FACT you got there (given your history and the mess countries/societies are in as rebounds on you younger ones...too many chronic traumas.) You're doing really well. You're very emotionally strong. There are middled-aged people galore who aren't even in your league, WT. Honestly.

Jealous of best friend

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PPS: ""She probably meant it as a compliment."" She meant it as a "Backhanded Compliment" (Covert speciality - google). An offence dressed-up as a compliment. Like their "awww, it was just a jo-oo-ooooke". Answer: 'Then next time, I suggest you put some Comedy into it'. And if they add, 'where's your sense of humoooour?", retort, 'Un-activated. So don't give up your day-job.'

Jealous of best friend

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PPPS: Just so's you know: the keys that have made her sit-up and behave, are these: 1. The fact you took three whole days. And when you consider older-adult besties see/speak to each other once per week on-average, your hold-out, relatively speaking, was the emotional-impact-equivalent of 3 whole weeks. 2. And this beaut: ""yeah whatever"" Those two in particular, together 'spelt', word plus action consistent, for her, spelt, 'I'm losing her'. All that was missing, was - comma Trevor. HAHAHAHAHA! For your early stage of awakening and climbing off her Matrix - that was really impressive going! :)))))

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Hey! Sorry for taking so long! So... I did go to her place and we stayed for four days instead of three. I had a great time, everything felt like it went back to normal. "That's an interesting transformation? Or is it a reversion to how things always used to be like before uni?" Pretty much, yes of you consider we saw eachother every single day before. Even when she moved away, i went and stayed with her until uni started. Has your 3-day hold-out been so uncharacteristic of you that you actually DID get through her cloth-ears and -head? Let's wait and see. Yes, she basically told me this: i figured out something was wrong, because you didn't talk to me for three days, that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible. She asked if i got mad about what happened, i told her i wasn't mad, but upset and it turns out (at least she said so) that she had a shit time with her new friends, they got on her nerves, and she was very upset that she didn't get to see any of her other friends because she couldn't leave them alone in a foreign city. Since i got back, (its only been 4 days, but still) we have been talking every day again. About the other girl i went with: she is a great person, and we definitely became closer. So everything is perfectly fine now, basically. "Ah, you've misconstrued. I mean, why wouldn't you be able to freely show your perfectly rational emotions with your mother/family? I presume that's who you meant the conversation would come up with? Or have I misconstrued and you meant, with Fiend?" Yes, i meant my mother. It's because we dont.. do that. In general." Ah! There it is... The Mother Ship. There always is one when we put up with behaviour that others wouldn't. Why aren't you two close, like you should be? Is this why you need this quasi sister and are trying to find ways to tolerate her?...because she's been part of your life, growing-up and kind of filled a gap your mum left?" Well...if i start about my family here, its never going to end. About my mum, i think we are super close, but we don't really talk about important stuff like that. I dont know how to describe this exactly, but its kinda what she taught me? She wants me to tell her everything of course, but she never tells me about what is going on with her. She doesn't want me to see her sad, mad is just fine thought lol. She has always been super overprotective and controlling. I was never allowed to go out and play as a child, so i always felt distanced and inferior to my friends. Except from when i was at school i was pretty much always alone. I also wasn't allowed to have a phone until i was 15, i think, so i also had no way to communicate. Right now, i would say that our relationship is great but the overprotectiveness hasn't gone away of course.( She called at least 6 times a day while i was away) Things used to be way worse when i was younger. I was basically always terrified of her. See how i said this would never end? Maybe I'll tell you about my dad next time, or whenever i have more time. Bye for now!

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Again - I don't mind you taking so long! LOL ...Because I take so long! So - sorry back! HAHA ("I don't mind" "Well I don't mind either" "Well neither do I" "Nor me" "Well, okay, then" "What was the question again?" "Which question - when?" ...PMSL) Right, you mad bint-ette, haha - off we go (Serious Hat on).... "I did go to her place" Good! "and we stayed for four days instead of three. I had a great time, everything felt like it went back to normal." I'd say good but, let's let Time tell (i.e. is this her, turning over a new leaf (or getting over some weird spell) or Love-Bombing herself back into your good books to lull you into a false sense of security before starting with making you feel like a Nothing all over again?). "That's an interesting transformation? Or is it a reversion to how things always used to be like before uni?" Ah, there you go - you beat me to it! Yup - that's the usual Six Million Dollar question, alright! ...."WILL THE REAL SLIM SHADY, PLEASE STAND UP!". "Pretty much, yes of you consider we saw eachother every single day before. Even when she moved away, i went and stayed with her until uni started." Okay. But let's not forget that it was when you went out of her range that the trouble immediately started....which COULD be - out of sight (and unable to service my needs) = out of mind. Let's not build your hopes up. She'll need to keep this up consistently for a GOOD FEW....ooooh - FOREVERS? (They reckon - and we all agree - that Neglect is the most severe of all other forms of abuses, you realise? In simplest terms, bit like the diff between tied to a chair and foie-gras-ed (overfed) - and left in a corner to starve (underfed). And the Neglected are mostly all.....Coverts (although the NSpaths would have got slammed with both). Sooo, anyhooo....now you start Captain's Log, Star Date: (now)...., continuing to record every single-TINGLE interaction (on here so you've got everything all together; it'll be vital for judging and deciding). Meaning. You're in the exact-same position as ABCD. (PS: I wonder if his online surname is EFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ?) ("What's yer name?" "Abacudd" "Pardon- I mean - Pdn?" "Abacudd...Abacudd Effguh-Hijck-Lumunop-Krsstuv-Wikes, spelt,.....)" "Zzzzzz.....") (Sorry, but it's Friday, after a hard-slog day, so it's MUCK ABOUT NIGHT, WOO-HOO! You'll have to just tolerate me tonight, haha!) Anyway - yes. You two are now situational "twins". Say Hi to your fellow Lab colleague? :) "Has your 3-day hold-out been so uncharacteristic of you that you actually DID get through her cloth-ears and -head? Let's wait and see. Yes, she basically told me this: i figured out something was wrong, because you didn't talk to me for three days, that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." Okay... (She was counting, look. AND SPECIFYING. Rather than, couple of days, handful of days, two-three days... Did you spot that?) "She asked if i got mad about what happened, i told her i wasn't mad, but upset" Is it pertinent, do you think, that she saw it that if it happened to her she'd be MAD rather than upset/sad? (BTW, this is amazingly helpful, hearing her verbatim, WELL DONE!) Question: why didn't she just phone you and ask you and if there were a problem, THEN ask you straight over to sort it? Or sort it on the phone then ask you over afterwards? And if she thought you were mad at her for something you'd done - meaning, she were beholden to you - then how come she summons you to hers. That's back-to-front. The UNWITTING perp is Mohammad. And Moham is supposed to be the one to walk to the mountain, not the mountain walk to Mohammad. Seeing it yet? See all the TEENY-TINY-not-so-teeny-tiny things that go under your, the victim-survivor's, radar? It's a show of her unwarranted sense of superiority in yours and her dynamic. (Thoweeeee that it's already not looking so squeaky clean as the surface (with the aid of your hope) suggests. But...Time is the deciding factor. Healthy - or finally healthy - relationships (or re-starts after reaching an understanding) get better with passing of the weeks/months. With Narcs, they get worse (or again but even worse than before now that they've got you too comfy to want to move again (or tied-up). But I suppose she could just be a lifelong spoilt brat, used to other people making her efforts for her. " and it turns out (at least she said so) that she had a shit time with her new friends, they got on her nerves, and she was very upset that she didn't get to see any of her other friends because she couldn't leave them alone in a foreign city." Yes, but that could be Triangulation. Question: why was the conversation all about her? Where was her, wanting to know the details of what she'd done (and the ramifications)? Seems strangely missing to me. All I'M hearing is: Poor Me-Me-Me!...It's not MY fault, it's the terrible time's (naughty terrible time, tsk - spank!). Had you noticed THAT? "Since i got back, (its only been 4 days, but still) we have been talking every day again." Well, this is the precedence she's setting, bar relaxing-down a tiny as you get comfy together again - so - let's see her maintain that and a slightly relaxed version and NOT go AWOL again. I've also noticed something else, though... To ME, it sounds a little like she's saying: I decided my new friends were shite so I figured I'd now come back to you, my Old Faithful. Doesn't it you? That conveys that you're the safetynet, the 2nd prize. (Sorry ((((hug))))) .) "About the other girl i went with: she is a great person, and we definitely became closer." EX-CELL-EEEEEENT. So that's the GOOD news! But I wonder why she's decided to introduce you two? Does she need a 'gang' all the time, rather than one-on-ones? Or is it that YOU'VE MADE HER NERVOUS ABOUT BEING TOO LONG/TOO MANY OCCASIONS, ALONE WITH YOU AND YOUR SPIDEY SENSES AND INTERROGATIONS?...whereas with three, it's easy to switch the convo topic instantly to avoid answering something, innit.). ...A question worth asking, in view of her recent but protracted record, methinks. Agree?) Thoughts back, por favor, Senorina? PS: I think you should think about drawing this other girl to you and how you'd go about it. She's proven she sees herself as the Mountain, ergo, this other girl is your co-minion (slave), ergo, nice and decent too. Plan, Stan? PPS: You're a sweetie. No sweetie should be hidden in a toybox. You deserve a weight-for-weight, equal friendship, true friendship (no nasty competing, put-downs or any of that crap). Let's see what she's up to - hopefully ahead of her - in the coming days/weeks and then, who knows, maybe you'll want to try taming her via the ego and getting her to do her OWN running? I mean, what does she think you are - her Butler? :p (It's called *Seek* Forgiveness, not Summon. Yeah? Click-whirr-click-whirr...?) Here for you.

Jealous of best friend

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Just to higlight my point: Listen... "that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." That's why I TOLD....YOU to come over....AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. Compare (how it should be if the underlying belief system and attitude is healthy): "that's why I asked you to come over as soon as possible". (Nnnnyyeeea...meh... sowwy. But let's see! Maybe it'll just take her time to adjust i.e. climb down off her own pedestal...)

Jealous of best friend

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But saying that - do feel free to tell her, Soulmate said: 'Can I have a pair of front-seat tickets, please, and - WHAT IS IT YOU DO?'. Important PS: say nothing to other friend just yet. Take time to study her, first, to ensure she's kosha. And falling into instant friendship is what old you might have done. New You guards your Diamond self until you know you're safe. :)

Jealous of best friend

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TSK - sorry! - a sentance fell off: "Compare (how it should be if the underlying belief system and attitude is healthy): "that's why I asked you to come over as soon as possible"." OR "what's why I asked to come over to yours as quickly as possible". Are your spidey senses feeling it? It's all very, very subtle with Coverts. Covert means Hidden. Deeply. So you've got all this friendly chatter/the correct tone, even....but the actual acts/actions don't match. "Oh-oh...come here, quickly!" / "No...you come HERE, b*tch, if you're truly that worried :p." (She needs a damn good spank over my knee, that's what she needs.) (Look what the No Spanking movement has achieved!...Weren't the Anti-Spankers soooo clever!...NNNOT. A spank that shocks more than hurts and abuse are two very distinctly different - very OPPOSITE-intentioned and -achieving - things (don't get me started.) (Doubt it'd work now, though; she probably needs a hundred. And a Time-Machine.)

Jealous of best friend

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PS: FYI, I'm just saving the bit about your fam for afterwards.

Jealous of best friend

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Hello-hello? Don't float off with the Happy Fairies again - keep one foot firmly on the ground, this time, and watch her like a hawk (and jot anything iffy/upset down here or in a dedicated pad). It's recommended you take friendships slowly so that you have the time and headspace to NOTICE any little Red Flags. But this rule apples even harder after a friend has been upsettingly neglectful or belittling - no matter HOW subtly-executed, whereby you Plea-Bargain (merely unaware, social-interactional ineptness on her part). Plea Bargaining happens a whole two-thirds through the whole grieving process. Seventy Percent, only Thirty Percent to go. I strongly suggest you stay there, or at least keep one foot in it (without letting on), before losing all that hard-won ground for what could be nothing but the build-up to another iffy & insulting phase. You don't want to feel bad and unwanted like that again, do you.

Jealous of best friend

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Hii "Is it pertinent, do you think, that she saw it that if it happened to her she'd be MAD rather than upset/sad?" Oh she wouldn't be just mad. She'd be furious. Also when she asked me if i got mad, and i said no, she said: oh ( the other girl that she compared me to before) got super mad. "Question: why didn't she just phone you and ask you and if there were a problem, THEN ask you straight over to sort it? Or sort it on the phone then ask you over afterwards?" Ah i have no idea. But she does this a lot, she asks and tells me important things mostly when we are face to face "Question: why was the conversation all about her? Where was her, wanting to know the details of what she'd done (and the ramifications)? Seems strangely missing to me. All I'M hearing is: Poor Me-Me-Me!...It's not MY fault, it's the terrible time's (naughty terrible time, tsk - spank!)." Yeah she complained about this at least three times, and also she never apologized. "But I wonder why she's decided to introduce you two? Does she need a 'gang' all the time, rather than one-on-ones? Or is it that YOU'VE MADE HER NERVOUS ABOUT BEING TOO LONG/TOO MANY OCCASIONS, ALONE WITH YOU AND YOUR SPIDEY SENSES AND INTERROGATIONS?...whereas with three, it's easy to switch the convo topic instantly to avoid answering something, innit.). ...A question worth asking, in view of her recent but protracted record, methinks. Agree?)" Ok i see i need to explain a lot of things. First, she didn't ask me to come over. I did. Second she didn't introduce us. We have know eachother for seven years now. We were never really friends, but we were in the same friend group. Last year, she became really close to bestie, so naturally we started talking too. In November, she went over to bestie's house and she said in a voice message they left me: we should go out when i come back. I was very surprised, because we had never really talked alone before. Anyways, we went out and at some point she said: we should go to (bestie's) house together sometime. Recently we were texting and she mentioned it again, she said we should go after that festival. So when me and bestie started talking again after the drama, i told her to find a date. "that's why i told you to come over as quickly as possible." That's what she meant, that the date was as soon as possible. Also, I admit that's not exactly what she said, remember im translating everything so it can't be 100 percent accurate. She was also planning to come over to me, but since i told her im coming to her, she didn't. Also, another thing that kinda bugged me (and it will probably sound terrible): after i met all her friends, she asked me: aren't you jealous at all? And i said no, of course. Then i saw something in her face, i cant explain, and i said: it bothers you that im not jealous, doesn't it? And she said: terribly. She has said before she likes it when her romantic partners are a little bit jealous, BUT IM NOT ONE!?

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