Am I overreacting?

My wife and I have been together for 11 years, married for 6. A couple of weeks ago we were cleaning out her car to make room for some items she needed to move. On the floor in the back, behind the driver’s seat, I found an aluminum water bottle. It’s yellow with black lettering. It has an image of a snake and some stars and the words “Liberty Or Death” and “Don’t Tread On Me”. Obviously, it looks like a guy’s gym bottle. I asked her whose water bottle it was. She said she didn’t know. I said well, why don’t you take a guess because it got there somehow. She said maybe one of the valets at work left it when he parked my car. I said was he driving from the back seat? She said maybe it rolled under the seat from the front. I said when you go to work tomorrow check with the valets and see if any of them are missing this bottle. She said she did and no one claimed it. I should add that when we met 11 years ago, she was married. So my question is, is there some obvious innocent explanation for how that bottle could have gotten into her car? Something that I’m missing? If there is I’d like to hear it. Let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

From the author: I should add that we work different schedules. I work in construction so I work mostly during the day. She works in catering so she works mostly nights and weekends.

Ask yourself why a presumably man's gym water bottle found in your wife's car is enough for you to go posting on forums asking for opinions as to why. Do you really trust your wife 100%? because your post says No, but yeah maybe. If you guys are 'two ships' going by your work schedules, then it might be time to sit down & assess your marriage & work out where it's going. You guys have to have a solid communication thing going if you're not together too aften & if you don't have it, then you might have to start working on it to help smooth things out. It's got to be a two way street too you know, one of you guys can't be talking while the others daydreaming. A simple water bottle out of place shouldn't be anything to worry about unless you know your missus is a player while you're at work. You can't be living in the past & thinking that your 11 year old relationship will fail because your wife was married when you met her.

So your answer to my question is yes?

Rather than a straight yes or no answer, have a look at the reasons why you are questioning your wife which may help you discover what's going on, if anything, in your marriage. You guys work different schedules etc & there could be little signs, which are under the radar, that you're missing. These 'signs' could be effecting your relationship with your wife which could have consequences down the track.

Well, it's not just one thing. It's combination of a lot of little things. To meet her you would never suspect anything was amiss. She is a delightful woman. Everyone loves her. She's very attractive, energetic, and personable. She seems very happy and centered. At the same time our relationship began as an affair while she was still married to, and living with, her ex and her daughter. And yes you can judge me for my role in that. But her friends and family have accepted me and consider me an upgrade to her ex, which isn't saying much. But I have never cheated on anyone in a relationship. This was something new for me, and I don’t intend to repeat it. I suppose I was just overwhelmed by her personality. And we’ve actually settled into a pretty normal life, including friends and family get togethers. When our relationship was first revealed I let everyone know that they had no obligation to accept me, considering the circumstances. I told them that my actions, rather than my words, should inform their opinion. But as I said there are many little things that give me pause. None of them alone seem significant, like the water bottle, but in combination they raise some concern. She insists on having her own bank account and handling her own finances. I have no problem with this. I get that she wants to be independent. She gives me an agreed upon percentage of the household expenses per month. But it could also be to conceal expenses, though I have no evidence that she is doing that. Since she works nights and weekends she has a couple of days off during the week. She knows I get home around 5, yet she goes out to run her errands shortly before I get home. She gets home around 7 or 8. She says it’s just the way her schedule works out. About a year ago she started a gym membership. Out of the blue. Never really worked out before, except for walking. Another thing she does while I’m at home. Again, it’s just the way her schedule works out. About 5 years ago we were in bed fooling around and she asked me If I wanted her to bring another girl from work home with her. It was completely unexpected. She had never said anything like that before. I just said “what?” She looked at me and said “never mind I’m just joking”. About 6 months later she did the same thing. Since then she’s never mentioned anything like that. Maybe she was just testing me. I don’t know. When I discuss these things with her she laughs it off and says it’s nothing. I’ve never seen any direct clues that she is involved with someone else. The water bottle is the first. Or maybe it isn’t. I don’t know. It got there somehow. And it apparently got there in a way that she has no idea about. And I have to say that we have a good relationship. We enjoy each other’s company. We don’t argue or fight. We have enjoyable family time with her daughter. We have regular sex. Maybe she is just the type of person who always needs more, or something else. I don’t know for sure. She seems very happy with me and our family. Ther are just some things that I can’t explain, and she won’t explain.

Hi AnonymousUser (- correct, LOL) Got as far as your second sentance.... Deliberately not reading Manalone's responses cos I just want to see if we match (just interested); plus you then can be sure each opinion is truly independent. "I said was he driving from the back seat? She said maybe it rolled under the seat from the front. I said when you go to work tomorrow check with the valets and see if any of them are missing this bottle. She said she did and no one claimed it." I read - I said was he driving from the back seat and went into fits of laughter. I LLLIKE you - you're COOL! Are you a barrister? If not - why not? Too cool for school. But I realise this is a serious subject so...serious face back on... If she DID check with the valets already then why was her first answer - "I don't know"? Doe she find you intimidating, normally? Or is it just she was (badly) lying and knows precisely who left it. Why didn't YOU ring and check? Why don't you on Monday? If your wife has already rung-in, whomever answers the phone will TELL you. Going to break off for a tick, but - just quickly: "It’s yellow with black lettering. It has an image of a snake and some stars and the words “Liberty Or Death” and “Don’t Tread On Me”. Obviously, it looks like a guy’s gym bottle." Bond.....James Bond.... (not) More like Basildon. As flimsy as paper and needing to bluff SO MUCH he even has to have a preemptive warning on his dwinkies bockle, ahh... Does it say on the bottom: Please Do Not Feed The Chimp? (Probably NOT matching what Manalone's said yet, hahah - sorry - black humour...can't stand cheaters - if that's what's going on...not read ahead at all.)

Sorry again, but that witticism was just too funny for me, I couldn't stop laughing or stay serious! Are you always that virtuoso at sarcasm? More of THAT, please, Bartender!? Anyway, to continue... Valets basically do an intensive work-out, again and again, all day, every day. They don't tend to need a gym. Their JOB is a gym. It's probably part of the fake-Macho warning-signalling ("Back!...back!... or I'll soap your face...."). "I said well, why don’t you take a guess because it got there somehow. She said maybe one of the valets at work left it when he parked my car. I said was he driving from the back seat? She said maybe it rolled under the seat from the front. I said when you go to work tomorrow check with the valets and see if any of them are missing this bottle. She said she did and no one claimed it." Ooh, you're very no-nonsense, but civil, aren't you. Again- you told her to take a guess, to which, she reckoned she ALREADY knew it WASN'T one of the valets (because she'd allegedly checked by phone). So why did she need to take a guess. Why did she need to say, I don't know. It would be only natural to say, 'I don't know, I thought maybe 'dah' but it turns out, no, so - I really don't know, I CAN'T guess!'. Hers is Word Salad (Red Flag 2, taking into account the first Flag, of the bottle being there). Could be well-practised dark-art or panicking and blathering under unforeseen and unprepared-for pressure, unable to think fast enough? "I should add that when we met 11 years ago, she was married." Oh, for uck's SAKE. SAY NO MORE. And you're intonating, you were single? Did you know she was married?...or find out too late? "So my question is, is there some obvious innocent explanation for how that bottle could have gotten into her car? Something that I’m missing? If there is I’d like to hear it. Let me know your thoughts. Thank you." I larks a challenge... 1. It was a hot day in this middle of Winter (or are you in the Caribbean or Australia?) so she had all the windows wound down and some litterbug of a freshly-transgendered or newbie young adult decided it was time for a change in waterbottle image so just lobbed it from the pavement and - VWOOOP! - it landed without her seeing, onto the back seat. 2. Somebody's - someone who knows her history - is trying to sh*t-stir so planted it. 3. You sleepwalked and put it there (after having sleepwalk-popped to the all-night corner-shop, whose cashier didn't spot you were asleep). 4. She's planning the op - and will be changing her name to Trevor, so needs accessories to-suit, but is taking the transition in random Baby Steps and doesn't think she should tell you - or just, not yet. 5. There's nothing going on but because SHE knows her history and knows YOU know her history - saw where you were headed with your thinking and, fearing being automatically presumed guilty, went into panic-blather mode....Although that doesn't explain the bottle being there to begin with because SHE says SHE CHECKED AND THEY SAID NO. Hmmmm.... Not this one, then. 6. Ref. point 2: DOESN'T know her history but, someone at the garage has an axe to grind with her so planted it to 'get her back'? 7. Er............................................. Can't think of anything else...... Only point 6 is plausible/(these days) realistic. But I find it interestink that she didn't mention to you beforehand, about having found it and rung - don't you? Seriously - *I* would ring. Or better yet, take it to the garage in-person. In fact, I'd go from staff member to staff member, going, all innocently and chirpily (like you were just passing and being nice in returning it) - 'Excuse me, is this yours?....or yours?.....', to see who squirmed. It's certainly easier to cheat a second time, than the first. So it would be too easy to conclude yes, is my opinion at this point. But I'll read your next...

I would recommend reading all of my posts so you have the whole picture, even if you don't read other responses. And for the record, my sarcasm has no off switch. Glad you enjoyed it.

Actually, it's late - I'll continue tomorrow.

Sure. No worries. But I'll answer your questions while I'm here. "Are you a barrister? If not - why not?" Hahaha I can't imagine anyone wanting me to do that job. "If she DID check with the valets already then why was her first answer - "I don't know"?" No she checked with them after I told her to. "Doe she find you intimidating, normally?" Sometimes. "Or is it just she was (badly) lying and knows precisely who left it." Who knows? "Why didn't YOU ring and check? Why don't you on Monday? If your wife has already rung-in, whomever answers the phone will TELL you." Why would any of them admit to it? "And you're intonating, you were single? Did you know she was married?...or find out too late?" I got divorced on January 4th. Moved in to my new place on January 12th. Met her on January 13th, 2013. Yes I knew she was married and had a daughter. I've know her sister for a long time, so I knew who she was, but we had never had a conversation. And I told her from day one, if this doesn't work for your daughter, then it doesn't work. "But I find it interestink that she didn't mention to you beforehand, about having found it and rung - don't you?" I don't think she knew it was there until I found it. Thanks for reading.

Sorry the January 13th date should be January 25th

And don't worry about matching or not matching someone else's response. I want to get different perspectives.

"I would recommend reading all of my posts so you have the whole picture, even if you don't read other responses. And for the record, my sarcasm has no off switch. Glad you enjoyed it." What an incredibly innovative idea - I didn't think of finishing/reading all of yours! Cheers! (heh-heh-heh, Love-15 - "en garde, Poosycat" (name the cartoon character!).) I larks banter, I duz. :) "Well, it's not just one thing. It's combination of a lot of little things." Potential Red Flag of type Covert (tick!). "To meet her you would never suspect anything was amiss." Only acts up for you, "behind closed doors" (different at home when "their public" aren't there to witness, creating psychological Isolation, treats people outside of the house BETTER than they do, you (which is obviously the wrong way round!) - tick! "She is a delightful woman. Everyone loves her. She's very attractive, energetic, and personable. She seems very happy and centered." Sounds almost perfect! Therefore, as her Numero Uno, you should find her delightful, the most!...and wouldn't be on here about a magic bottle from, presumably, a Wormhole ("DOO-doo-doo-doo, DOO-doo-doo-doo..." - Twilight Zone Music). (Maybe the car's haunted. Clearly your marriage is...by LOTS of little things). And you can't cope with her on your own (understandably - "if") - tick! Instead, HAD you found a bottle, you should have been able to- Aww, eff-it, you shouldn't FIND a mysterious bottle in the back of the bloody car! Again - find out if she DID ring, and do the "line-up" inspection. "At the same time our relationship began as an affair while she was still married to, and living with, her ex and her daughter." Huh? Why? For financial reasons? Clearly YOU don't see it as being that reasonable, do you, or you wouldn't include it on her rap-sheet... (I'm still not reading ahead)... "And yes you can judge me for my role in that." Noawwwwww - I thought you meant she was MARRIED! She wasn't so... No, no cause to judge. Interesting that you thought it was judgeable as stupid or something on your part, though? (genuine NPD Victim tick!) "But her friends and family have accepted me and consider me an upgrade to her ex, which isn't saying much." HAHAHAHAHAHA - STOP IT, YOU'RE DOING IT AGAIN! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oh, you crack me up - this is great! I can't type, I'm laughing too hard - give me a sec!!!! But I have never cheated on anyone in a relationship. This was something new for me, and I don’t intend to repeat it. I suppose I was just overwhelmed by her personality. And we’ve actually settled into a pretty normal life, including friends and family get togethers. When our relationship was first revealed I let everyone know that they had no obligation to accept me, considering the circumstances. I told them that my actions, rather than my words, should inform their opinion. But as I said there are many little things that give me pause. None of them alone seem significant, like the water bottle, but in combination they raise some concern. She insists on having her own bank account and handling her own finances. I have no problem with this. I get that she wants to be independent. She gives me an agreed upon percentage of the household expenses per month. But it could also be to conceal expenses, though I have no evidence that she is doing that. Since she works nights and weekends she has a couple of days off during the week. She knows I get home around 5, yet she goes out to run her errands shortly before I get home. She gets home around 7 or 8. She says it’s just the way her schedule works out. About a year ago she started a gym membership. Out of the blue. Never really worked out before, except for walking. Another thing she does while I’m at home. Again, it’s just the way her schedule works out. About 5 years ago we were in bed fooling around and she asked me If I wanted her to bring another girl from work home with her. It was completely unexpected. She had never said anything like that before. I just said “what?” She looked at me and said “never mind I’m just joking”. About 6 months later she did the same thing. Since then she’s never mentioned anything like that. Maybe she was just testing me. I don’t know. When I discuss these things with her she laughs it off and says it’s nothing. I’ve never seen any direct clues that she is involved with someone else. The water bottle is the first. Or maybe it isn’t. I don’t know. It got there somehow. And it apparently got there in a way that she has no idea about. And I have to say that we have a good relationship. We enjoy each other’s company. We don’t argue or fight. We have enjoyable family time with her daughter. We have regular sex. Maybe she is just the type of person who always needs more, or something else. I don’t know for sure. She seems very happy with me and our family. Ther are just some things that I can’t explain, and she won’t explain."

Stop being so funny - I'm trying to be serious here! You've foud my Achilles Heel hahahahah!!! You should be in stand-up!

Oh, wait - she WAS married. Ohhh.... So you' were in the "mistress" position. Did YOU get frustrated with the stalling and 'have to' leave a macho-manly (boy-ly) clue to your existence, to provide a catalyst? That's what unaware Victims in the mistress position, do, sometimesquitealot. Anyway, I'll get back to where I was....

Got my trust incontinence pants on now... I'm ready for ya. "But I have never cheated on anyone in a relationship." Yeah/no, don't worry about it, mate. You're bursting with empathy (your SOH is your proof - you can't have your own SOH, let alone using self-deprecation like that last - NOR ad-libbed like that). I'm confidence without reading further ahead yet, that either you were young, naive and foolish and/or you were manipulated and duped. " This was something new for me, and I don’t intend to repeat it." BOOM! (I've still got it, baby, oh, yeah.) "I suppose I was just overwhelmed by her personality." Uh-huh. Know the feeling. "And we’ve actually settled into a pretty normal life, including friends and family get togethers." Yup. " When our relationship was first revealed I let everyone know that they had no obligation to accept me, considering the circumstances." Ohh, so it was YOU who stood at the alter with him and vowed in front of 'all present' to be faithful til death do you part! (tsk and eye-roll) Despite, that was very gentlemanly of you. But you were an improvement on the ex, you said. " I told them that my actions, rather than my words, should inform their opinion. But as I said there are many little things that give me pause. None of them alone seem significant, like the water bottle, but in combination they raise some concern." GIMMIE-GIMMIE!!! "She insists on having her own bank account and handling her own finances." Tick! " I have no problem with this. I get that she wants to be independent." (To her) SO DON'T GET MARRIED THEN - STAY SINGLE! (GIANT TICK! - CAKE & EAT IT MERCHANT) Stop making excuses for her. You wouldn't BE here if they worked. You're just very accommodating. Youz an Empath. (tick-tick-tick!) Your humour is reminding me of Woody Allen btw. (Ignore the fact he was a sort-of paedo, it turned out; he was bound to be a bit Narcissistic - you can't get more attention-seeking than celebrities.... ugh, can't think of anything worse, is what normals say about that). But he was still a genius at his art. I've just kind-of shoved you aside to yell at her. NEVER a good sign (tick!) It means I can tell you need defending (all myriad victim types do). "She gives me an agreed upon percentage of the household expenses per month. But it could also be to conceal expenses," I was just aout to say that! "though I have no evidence that she is doing that." Save for the marital abnormality of it, the show of lack of trust in your financial behavioural-stability (addicted to gambling, are ya?) (sarcy joke). The modern, healthy compromise to that is normally, joint account and separate side accounts for disposable income after bills (portions based on one another's income and/or lifestyle need (e.g. you don't need your legs waxed)). And save for the fact you wouldn't, these days, put it past her. I suppose there wasn't time or space to have the "how we're going to do it all, be an equal TEAM", prenuptual sit-down-talk, eh. How convenient. For her. "Since she works nights and weekends, she has a couple of days off during the week. " How handy if she's a cheater (still). And a Narc (pretend you work 2 hours later than you do, all that bs). Why didn't she changed her hours to suit being married with a new need for time spent as a couple? Weekend time is normally couples and family time. "She knows I get home around 5, yet she goes out to run her errands shortly before I get home." Ah! Doesn't pretend. Shops instead. What sort of errands? "She gets home around 7 or 8." WHAAAT??? Definitely - WHAT SORTS OF ERRANDS? "She says it’s just the way her schedule works out." 'Then CHANGE it, Dear Henry, Dear Henry, Dear Henry / Then CHANGE it, Dear Henry, Dear Henry, change IT'. Is there 'A Hole In Her Bucket' as well? 'I caan't because - A' / 'Then do B' / 'I can't because of C' / 'Then do D' / 'I caan't because of A' / '"(Aaaaaargh!"). Is there? "About a year ago she started a gym membership. Out of the blue." AWWWW, for eff's sake. (GIANT TICK!) "Never really worked out before, except for walking. Another thing she does while I’m at home. Again, it’s just the way her schedule works out." God bless that schedule of hers, eh. (puke) "About 5 years ago we were in bed fooling around and she asked me If I wanted her to bring another girl from work home with her." Pardon?? "It was completely unexpected. She had never said anything like that before. I just said “what?” She looked at me and said “never mind I’m just joking”." Has she got hairy legs, ever? Make a 'joke, ha ha ha' about her hairy legs, go on. Bet she'll find that as hysterical as you did. Actually, make a joke about that bottle, eh. EH. (PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!) Yeah. I don't trust her, either. She doesn't work right, does she. "About 6 months later she did the same thing." GIANT RED FLAG - wearing you down via Narc nagging!!! "Since then she’s never mentioned anything like that." Because she pushed and you got a bit angry, showed you were not amused in the slightest and what a poor taste in humour (, evil Forrestina), etc? "Maybe she was just testing me. I don’t know." I do. Yes. Swat Narx Do. They ALSO leave a vague or "grey-area" clue that they're cheating on you - LIKE planting a ridiculous-looking waterbottle on your back seat and then deliberately - OR Care-Less-ly (hyphens intended) - contradict themselves (Evidence 2) - don't know -v- because I rang the garage - WHY DIDN'T SHE SAY SO AT THE POINT OF FIRST QUESTION. Why becomes clear, suddenly, doesn't it. Yep. She's started trying to head-uck you, wear you down, make you too wary to make any move she might react disapprovingly to,...Walking On Eggshells... It's why you've come here, isn't it. So - Victim Tick! She's trying to get power and control over you. No doubt because (predator senses) she can sense you've woken-up more, lately, and are asking uncomfortable questions about what you've been seeing, now that it's turned from a wickle pile or pettinesses into a GREAT BIG pile, now discernible, identifiable, unignorable. OHHHHH GOD THEY'RE E VERY WHERE! "When I discuss these things with her she laughs it off" Gosh, how empathetic towards your obvious discomfort. (MEGA-TICK!!!!) "and says it’s nothing." NOT HER CALL (tick!). Who died and made HER Boss? She's telling your reality and perceptions are WRONG and hers are right so here is how you should feel aout it - awwww, it's nothing...you're just too sensitive/paranoid/blah blah (pass the sick bucket).... YEAH, SHE'S ONE ALRIGHT. How many years have you been together?... Eleven years, married for 6. Married for 6 is what counts. (The 7 yr itch happens with a covert or sociopathic narc - this is where victims wake up and either allow the spath to put them back to sleep again (love-bomb refresher, release Oxytocin, reinflate Hope, etc.). If it goes beyond 6/7/8, it's usually down to the relationally hard-working people-pleaser (NOT an insult, a compliment). So then, after coming-up 7 years of marriage, it was time for a "MISTRESS" again, wasn't it. One you wouldn't find out about unless she decided he was a better personal lackey/sap than you who is insightful, intelligent and TOO MUCH LIKE HARD WORK to get to put yourself on her leash and be so DESPERATE to please her, you said "Okayyyy" to the threesome idea. She could be making it all up to keep you de-stabilized (Swat Narx Do - makes one more manipulable), of course. But who cares - either is a Dealbreaker. "I’ve never seen any direct clues that she is involved with someone else. The water bottle is the first. Or maybe it isn’t." Yeah, I just said 'Are you SURE' out-loud then read, maybe it isn't. Wow, you're waking-up fast, aren't you! (It's writing it down and being able to read yourself back. Keep it up - good instincts, mate.) "I don’t know. It got there somehow." It's a magic bockle wiv wickle legs n stuff. Was she at all DISTURBED at this strange phenomenon? I would be - wouldn't you? Like, did I forget to lock my car and some ugger slept overnight in it?' (- is that a possibility????) (doesn't change the rest of her oh-so-subtle (not for me, it ain't) tests and threats, including Ambient ones like, how it must have made you feel when she announced, separate accounts (and not even a joint one for all monthly marital bills). (Bet she earns more than she says. That's another Covert trick.) (Also, how come you don't know her earnings - ANOTHER RED FLAG!) (You realise we've got so many red flags here, we could turn them into one of those artsy-craftsy rugs and sell it on Amazon or Ebay?) "And it apparently got there in a way that she has no idea about." Yeah. And here's my I Really Believe Her face: :p "And I have to say that we have a good relationship." Er..... "We enjoy each other’s company. We don’t argue or fight. We have enjoyable family time with her daughter. We have regular sex. Maybe she is just the type of person who always needs more, or something else. I don’t know for sure. She seems very happy with me and our family. Ther are just some things that I can’t explain, and she won’t explain."" Mostly - the fact she won't explain. It ain't natural. Except for a cheating narc who wants you to stay in constant suspicion, feeling out-of-sorts, without relief (event closure), whether there's a third party in the relationship or not. But...bit coinkydinky she SUGGESTS bringing a third person in - TWICE....you say no and next thing you know, you're finding the Amazing, Disappearing & Reappearing Water Bottlllllllle - yayy, mummy - tell me anudder one, yayyy. Well-practised Coverts and Narc-Spaths in long-con Covert mode, can be utterly fine (ish) for YEARS. But straight Covert goes slower and always-always stays JUST INSIDE the Dealbreaker Zone of your Boundary Line(s). Anyway... onto your next post....

"Sure. No worries. But I'll answer your questions while I'm here." So am I right in thinking you're Mr Capable-Efficient-Proactive, come, Do-It-All and her, not so much? ""Are you a barrister? If not - why not?" Hahaha I can't imagine anyone wanting me to do that job."" Er... what do you think we're doing right now? Presenting evidence in 'court' to support the suspicion she's cheating or pretending to cheat (which effing sadistic - AND shows zero remorse for having cheated on her first(?) husband! It's him you feel suddenly bad about, as well as guilty, yeh? What was her alleged reason for cheating on him then leaving him (broken)? Does/did he hate you (because she blamed you to him)? "If she DID check with the valets already then why was her first answer - "I don't know"?" No she checked with them after I told her to." OH - got it. All that proves is it wasn't from during the valet-ing. Still doesn't explain it being there to begin with. And how come SHE didn't notice first and ask you if it were yours? (Not just what they say/do, but strangely FAIL to do/say.) "Doe she find you intimidating, normally?" Sometimes." Genuinely or is she pretending or overreacting? For what real or alleged reason(s)? Describe in what way, when, and in what sort of circumstance. ""Or is it just she was (badly) lying and knows precisely who left it." Who knows?"" Da magic bockle. ""Why didn't YOU ring and check? Why don't you on Monday? If your wife has already rung-in, whomever answers the phone will TELL you." Why would any of them admit to it?" No, I just meant, to her having phoned. But on second thoughts - forget over the phone. Too easy to lie/fob you off if the co-perp happened to pick up. In-person, however - there's more than one way to show guilt than with verbal admission. YOU know that. Dem little, subtle, off-script clues. (He might even blush if you're lucky.) Reckon you'll feel better for it, regardless. What strikes me as odd, however, is her asking if you want to share a threesome with another WOMAN. Is this to put you off the conscious scent of there being another man (in order to confuse you by planting/leaving the bottle), thereby starting Cognitive Dissonance in you (HIGHLY bad for your brain when when the suspected crime is welfare-threatening!) Or maybe it was so that if you found out about her affair/pretend affair, she could point the finger BACK (because the third party had been a woman), making you feel incapable of calling Dealbreaker. Maybe you're too squeaky-clean if she DIDN'T contrive something beforehand? So presumably she's hinting she's "bisexual" (which, for them, is actually Omnisexual)? And this was the first you'd heard of it, right? Let's go back a bit... "we were cleaning out her car to make room for some items she needed to move" So she was the one instigated the cleaning and asked for your help? Items she needed to move to where? Was the bottle visible or hidden (but not very well) under something...Did you find it a bit too easily as made you wonder how come she hadn't? "And you're intonating, you were single? Did you know she was married?...or find out too late?" I got divorced on January 4th. Moved in to my new place on January 12th. Met her on January (25th), 2013. Yes I knew she was married and had a daughter. I've know her sister for a long time, so I knew who she was, but we had never had a conversation. And I told her from day one, if this doesn't work for your daughter, then it doesn't work." What was the main reason behind your divorce? And would your ex-wife agree? Was it a joint decision to split? Moved into your new place from where? The Former Marital Home? Or a mate's sofa? When had you moved-out? Met her only 12 days later. How? When WAS "day one" (presumably the first date, when telling her that became appropriate)? So you felt she came recommended because you knew her sister (and she's presumably the ok one?). Younger or older? Less need to do a full test-drive for a battle-weary soul to have to do, huh. Doesn't her sister KNOW what she's like? Or is her sister useful to her so gets constantly only smiled at? You don't get to "tell them" ANYTHING, even IF they make all the right noises and even the actions (to make your failure to insta-trust them look silly), when in 'Honeymoon' (Love-Bombing phase). That's the problem and why they make crap 'partners'....relational cripples. They're not Team Players/Partners, putting it mildly. More like Cold War spies (the Coverts). The only side any of them are on, ever, is their own. You just don't/can't realise that...until you're safely, securely hooked and then - drip-drip-drip-drip-drip-drip-....Tolerance Bucket OVERFLOW! OR you finally catch them doing something dealbreaking, like cheating (when you've been nothing but lovely and dutiful) (albeit, it's not about you, it's about mental illness). Insightful, intuitive types "JUST KNOW". "But I find it interestink that she didn't mention to you beforehand, about having found it and rung - don't you?" I don't think she knew it was there until I found it." Refer to Q about how easy to spot or stumble across it was. And why is her car such a mess (tick in-waiting). And why did it need the pair of you. PS: A strong link has now been established between serial cheaters and "a lover in every port" and NPD (malignant). This would be her second - that you know about. What sorts of things was Ex2B saying back then, that she claimed was just anger talking or unfairly blaming her? Sorry - lots of questions. PPS: 'Explain to me or explain to a divorce court judge'. Non? Her refusing to explain is RIDICULOUS. Wholly anti-marriage (anti-everything). It alone, is a Dealbreaker. It's called, Unreasonable Behaviour.

...And in answer to your very first question - Am I overreacting? NO. And these are NOT "little" things - quite the opposite. They SEEM little to you because she's done worse - or done so many things, you'd need a week to list them. You've become - sorry, HAD become (you're waking up fully now) - de-sensitized to it all. That's how it works. To wit - below extract: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/boiling-frog-syndrome-suyash-jaju Extract ((Asterisks of where in the process you've just been (*), whre you're currently at (**), and about to reach (***) - or in cases where negative to you, WOULD have, had you not come here - are mine. As are double-backets.)) ______________ My Preamble: Slowly 'boiling the frog' is the 'straight' Covert and Covert-Vulnerable speciality (once you're hooked/they feel you're safely enmeshed). Narc-Spaths (ditto enmeshed) tend to use lots of shocks and distraction techniques, like, creating chaos needlessly/avoidably, 'on top of the table' *WHILE boiling you 'under the table'; an NSpath is what I call, an Allverts (all they lack is the cool headedness, forethought/foresight, untouchable ego (bar getting foiled/dobbed-in), of a Malig. Narc-Psychopath. Important to establish which type/severity you're dealing with. Me, I'm now thinking was straight Covert, "fed" too much thus morphed into Spath (recently established fact, long-held suspicion) because she did an nspath favourite, called, LAUGHING OFF OR AT your pain/distress, that THEY CAUSED (thus OWE you an explanation), *WHILE telling you it's nothing...AND THE 'PHYSICAL' GASLIGHTING, like planting or deliberately failing to remove, the bottle (Coverts rely mainly on words and subtle twisting, Spaths also use/have a cache of PROPS (tick!)). ...and then deliberately leading/luring you to the evidence by creating a situation where you have to go there, based on your people-pleasing bent and generosity of spirit - "Can you help me over here, baby?" - tick-tick-tickety-tick! Oh, and suggessting a threesome. And, unbelievably enough, trying it on AGAIN - in a way that seems too damned thick, given your No had been perfectly clear and serious - when it's deliberate (Spath plays dumb - straight Narc's false pride couldn't take that)....is just the distractor, the ABOVE-the-table offence ("Narc - smoke & mirrors"). Like I say - if you say yes and do it, she's got leverage so you can't 'cast the first stone' when she starts cheating or pretending (i.e. Gaslighting). So STAY squeaky-clean, it makes things far-FAR harder for her. All they have left to throw at you is made-up insults that therefore don't sting a bit and which you're more liable to laugh at whilst instantly working them out. PS: They cheat to hedge their bets. Or (nspath) also because they're so severe 'these days' that they can no longer function as (if they were) an independent adult (rather than a stunted, nasty kid in a grown-up suit) so turn 'getting rich off you' into outright marital embezzlement/fraud, which, if spat out by their victim, can become societal scamming. "Lilypad-leaping" rather than ending one r-ship, recovering, then re-entering the mating ground. But they don't END it. They keep you hoping/hooked..."waiting, warm-(or angry and owed) on-the-side". Because it's not a relationship for them - it's their oxygen and/or JOB....which they then try to mutineer whereby You Inc. becomes Them Inc., including access to your own finances....aaaand so on. You might want to check if she's still got all the gifts you've ever given her, and whether they're kept together carefully as a living shrine-drawer, for example, or whether she's sold/hocked/given/thrown them away...Spaths do that too - HATE personalised gifts and secretly fume about it, whereby (cuckoo!) now you've asked for it so they begin 'outright' stealing/syphoning/taking out loans in your name, forged signature, all of that. _______________ "The 'Boiling Frog' syndrome is based on an urban legend describing a frog being slowly boiled alive. The premise is simple: if a frog is suddenly put into a pot of boiling water, it will jump out and save itself from impending death. But, if the frog is put in lukewarm water, with the temperature rising slowly, it will not perceive any danger to itself and will be cooked to death. Why? Since the frog is only *slightly uncomfortable* with its warm surroundings, it keeps **trying to adjust and get accustomed**, *making itself believe that the slow, gradual change in temperature is normal*. **Only when the slow change suddenly starts accelerating does the frog realise** it just signed its own death warrant. ***It has already lost its strength to jump out!*** ((NOPE. THIS IS YOU CLIMBING OUT ALREADY. WELL DONE AGAIN.)) The problem is that the human equivalent of the 'Boiling Frog' syndrome is observed more commonly than we'd like to admit. The problem is that the human equivalent of the 'Boiling Frog' syndrome is observed more commonly than we'd like to admit. For example, your significant other who sees you on a daily basis does not realise that you've been putting on weight, but your distant relative whom you see once in a blue moon will be quick to notice the added fat around your belly! ((Self-medicating the stress, but filling the wrong hole. Or equally, getting thinner....lots of colds/infections...and they start to age you, albeit you ping back, bar the natural aging, after you break up for-good.)) Probably the most fitting model of the 'Boiling Frog' syndrome is evolution. To demonstrate how the process of evolution is similar to the process our frog was going through, let us consider the stages it occurs in (do keep in mind that I am not a biologist and I am merely trying to explain a point in simple terms!): Offspring are born and resemble their parents – because of the transfer of genes during reproduction. Yet, in rare cases, there is an imperfect transfer of genes – causing mutations. This imperfect transfer is random amongst species and does not necessarily target a specific genetic trait. The changing environment then plays a role – where it helps some 'mutated' species to flourish, while the 'normal' ones find it difficult to survive and start dying out. The environment also becomes a factor for certain mutations to occur during reproduction, targeted towards ensuring that the species does not face extinction. The mutated species that endure continue to pass on those genes to their offspring – and the cycle keeps on repeating for millennia...we arrive at the conclusion Darwin had discovered for himself through his extensive travels and observations. The very concept of 'survival of the fittest' depends on the 'Boiling Frog' syndrome – where those who do not notice and respond to the gradual changes in the environment are the first to die. Yet, those 'trivial changes' amongst species became the cause for their survival – and over millions of years resulted in the evolution of chimpanzees into us homo sapiens!"... ________________________ ...But we are PEOPLE, and every human mammal still has its own inner psychopath...we just these days aren't supposed to need to get re-acquainted with it. BUT WE DO. Bring him out. And this time, don't put him back, just let him sleep until needed. This is how an Empath becomes Superman to the Lex Luthers, aka, a Supernova Empath. Kind, good,...but tough as fuck., Because OURS IS FIT AND HEALTHY AND INTELLIGENT, theirs is a cripple in an invisible wheelchair. All that keeps our psycho out of it, is our BEING UNAWARE WE'RE BEING SLOW-TORTURED AND/OR MURDERED and WHY (da fck). Once we do......if we let our (his) anger OUT..... They run. Which is why they began their campaign to keep you dizzy/drugged by your own brain chemistry/distracted/bound and gagged IN THE FIRST PLACE. DAMN right she's intimidated by you ....and SHOWS it sometimes. Is your mind going, ping-ping-ping-pingety-ping right now? It's far easier for blokes to be duped into viewing the female as the poor wee damsel (because women "live" in that victim area as standard), ergo the husband MUST be horrid/a monster. But in THOSE cases, your by-then new wife is lovely (if jumpy at first) and you live contentedly ever after. Victims DO NOT HURT, are TOO CAREFUL about hurting, another human being, especially in the same way THEY claimed to have been victimised. They CERTAINLY don't want to poo all over their new haven by suggesting a bloody threesome. But female N-Spaths are nothing if not secretly sleazy and promiscuous as hell (sex is a tool/weapon). I feel for you, but - you're safe now. I'm not always on-time but I live here so am always back as soon as. ((((((((((((((((((BRO-TYPE HUG))))))))))))))))))))))

"I larks banter, I duz. :)" I'd say that's the understatement of the century

Important: DO NOT confront her. All it achieves, other than lies/manipulation/outright Word Salad, is to teach her how to do these nefarious things - and/or cover her tracks - MUCH BETTER next time. Plus their mad psyches NEED the drama (google "Narcissistic Supply/Primary Supplier"./d The saying is: "Anything you say/do WILL be taken down and used against you later'. (I've added - in a Mickey-Mouse court of law). Keep your powder - including this forum/your online History (delete!) - completely dry. Whilst this 'undercover investigation' of her 'emotional, possibly fiscal crimes' is in progress, pretend everything is normal - tra-la-laaa...nothing to see here, folk. Forget my playfulness - I'm deadly serious. And start hiding/locking-up your precious things and paperwork. Better safe than sorry PLUS you'll feel more untouchable/confident for it. Your options are going to be, either Grey Rock OR to conquer Her *PROPERLY* ("Out Narc-ing The Narc").

""I larks banter, I duz. :)" I'd say that's the understatement of the century" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! OH NO, YOU DID IT AGAIN! Death bty a thousand sarcasms, hahaha! Got any good jokes. Bet you have. I'll start... How do you know a Narc is lying? Their lips are moving. Interviewer: Sarcasm won't get you anywhere.... Interviewee: Well, it got me First Prize at the 2004 Belgian International Sarcasm Competition... Interviewer: Really?? Interviewee: No. (Had someone said THAT to me during an interview, I'd have said, 'You're hired!') Really pleased to see you've still got your SOH about you. That means she's going down. She would anyway. But it's the How (insert counter-evil, world domination-style cackle).

Au Contraire. That fact that she's not "going down" enough might be part of the problem.

Oh, ye of little faith... (ruffling your hair, tongue-in-cheek patronisingly). There ain't a problem any more. Just a task. Did your mum or dad, or anyone, ever teach you to waltz/disco-dance by standing you on the tops of their feet as THEY did the steps?

...Mais, j'aimee ton Francaise, ee-hoh-ee-hoh!

So you can sit back and relax with a Cadbury's Caramel for a bit, now. ...which is why we've got time for a NUTHER joke: "Narc (La-La Land) version of Jesus, knocking on a front door: Let me in! Home-Owner: Why? Narc Jesus: So I can save you. Home-O (careful how you say that haha): From what? Narc Jesus: From what I'm going to do to do you if you don't let me in. (Well, YOU can relax. Me, I'm thinking, formulating......... "I'll beee baaaack!"

Are those prescription drugs?

Are those prescription drugs?

I heard ya the first time hahah. No - just a brilliant success with something! I'm celebrating!

Plus, I'm naturally "bubbly". Except with trolls and other malignants, obvs. Anyhoo - got to go - "Laters!" PS: I forgot to ask, btw - how old are you? I'm thinking....42?...somewhere around there? Not just nosiness, can make a difference.

I'm curious to know what made you guess 42? It's the meaning of life, you know.

I DO know, yahz. Hmm...probably not as young as 42 on-paper, then, if you can remember that. Unless you're a throwback type o' guy? You sound that young? Otherwise, just...."Nannoo-nannoo" and I can hear your ACTUAL stage of aging, regardless of your paper age?...(shrug?)

I'm 59. I'll be 60 in July.

I would need to take a week holiday to respond to everything you've written, but I appreciate you taking the time to write all of that and to put that much thought into it. And I appreciate the message you're sending. I hear you loud and clear. And you are very entertaining.

REALLY sorry for the late show; I've been fighting to make time. Hopefully tomorrow night, but I've got the whole weekend to myself so - no worries, I'll reply soon.

I have an update. On Wednesday night we had a little chat. I asked her again about the bottle. She got a little uncomfortable because she thought I had let it go. She did that thing where people try to act like they don't remember something. She said oh yeah didn't it say don't tread on me or something like that? I said yeah something like that. I said so where did it come from? She said she had no idea. I said does the bottle have an owner? She said probably. I said was the owner of the bottle in the car? She said she didn't know. I said well either the owner of the bottle or somebody else left the bottle in the car, or else the bottle launched itself into the car. Which of those things seems more likely? She said it was probably one of the valets. I said we've already been through this. You said you checked with the valets and no one claimed it. She was speechless. She forgot about that part. I said I don't normally see valets walking around with water bottles. If they have one they would set it down somewhere. And they certainly have no reason to bring it into your car just to move it a few feet. Might they get thirsty during the ten seconds they're in your car, and dehydrate before they get back to their water bottle, so they bring it with them into your car? She said she didn't know where it came from, a little louder this time. I said well someone left it in your car whether it was the owner or someone else. So who do you think it was? She just sat there and stared at me. Then she sarcastically said well maybe it was from my young lover. I said was it? She walked out. So she was obviously lying. We'll see how it goes. I expect that she'll spend a couple of days concocting a story and then present it to me. With most people, if you don't argue with them, they will keep trying to convince you. That's how you know they're lying. This is what I do. I don't argue with people. I ask them questions and let them construct their own noose. And when most people are lying they're scrambling and not thinking clearly, so it's easy to confuse them and get them to make mistakes. I'll keep you posted. Oh yeah and the bringing someone home from work thing. She said it never happened. I said it did happen and it happened twice. She said she would never suggest that and I must have misunderstood. She said she was probably asking me if I wanted her to bring someone home to help me with yard work. To be a good liar you have to be quick thinking and unemotional. She's neither.

Hi! Not read your post yet - am about to. Just wanted you to watch this by victim-now-coach, Lisa Romano (one of the original and best anti-Narc youtubers). You'll find it both fascinating and highly *pertinent. "10 REASONS #NARCISSIST WILL HATE YOU WHEN YOU START DOING THIS" *Pay particular attention to 36:26 and 43:43: And note, this isn't all reasons, just ten (yeah, great, I knowwww...). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOwhXbV2m98 1. Hate when others are praised. 2. Hate when you don’t take the bait. 3. Hate when you are autonomous. 4. Hate when they are called out on bad behavior. 5. Hate when you show empathy for those considered ‘less than’ the narcissist. 6. Hate when you don’t praise them, laugh at their jokes, use dark humor on others, enable them. 7. Hate when you overcome the fear of confrontation & exercise boundaries. 8. Hate when you remain loyal to those they want to put a wedge/isolate you from. 9. Hate when you don’t do everything they want you to do. 10. Hate when you investigate their claims or attacks on someone.

"I'm 59. I'll be 60 in July." Crikey, you don't sound it! Well, then, keep gargling at night with the Oil Of Ulay! (*thumbs-up*) "I would need to take a week holiday to respond to everything you've written, but I appreciate you taking the time to write all of that and to put that much thought into it. And I appreciate the message you're sending. I hear you loud and clear. And you are very entertaining." Two weeks is fine! It's your thread, you go as quickly or as slowly as you like. Don't worry, there's no urgency here, APART FROM, getting you out of that oh-so-damaging Cognitive Dissonance (and no doubt, it's equally 'evil' twin: Confirmation Bias)....which we don't need your pratner for (misspelling deliberate). Onto your next...

Sorry - thanks for the compliment! Did a stint in stand-up. ("Ohhh, no yoou didnnn't" / "Ohhh, yes I diiid") (no wait, that's panto....) ("Booo, gerrof!" - that's the one, yeh!)

"I have an update. On Wednesday night we had a little chat." 'A little chat'. FYI, I've just smirked and giggled. You probably understand why, by now, LOL. "I asked her again about the bottle." 'Me-ssaaage inna bo....ttle, yea-eah...' "She got a little uncomfortable because she thought I had let it go." Now I'm gaffawing because - WHAT WERE THE CHANCES! Refer to point 10, above...basically, When You're A (dreaded) Fact-Checker! 'Uh-oh, Jungo....it's Danger Island!' "She did that thing where people (sic) try to act like they don't remember something." Sorry, let's do that again, edited/correctly: "She did that thing where NARCISSISTIC LIARS try to act like they don't remember something." ((Don't blame People. These 'things' aren't people...at least, not like you know them, Jim!)) It's called Gaslighting. OBVIOUSLY she'd have remembered, that would be a 'given'...reality. Therefore she's trying to deny you reality, your experience...or even just twist/subvert it....play around with it, even just a tad. Gaslighting. It's the worst form of abuse. And the biggest Gaslight you can commit, is to lie for selfish reasons/purposes where detriments rather than benefits the other person they're supposed to care about, including their ongoing welfare. Anyhoo... "She said oh yeah didn't it say don't tread on me or something like that?" (At that point - me, being me - I'd have been tempted to have shot back, 'Noooo, I'm suuure it was more something like:- Warning, your Pratner's a lying t*sser') "I said yeah something like that. I said so where did it come from?" Mars! They've invaded already - everyone run! ...that or you gave a lift to a party magician with Small Man Syndrome.) "She said she had no idea." (Oh, ffffffffffff off, you silly t*rt) We all know, if it were us - WE WOULD KNOW. How could we NOT. Uuuuuurch... "I said does the bottle have an owner? She said probably." Probably, eh? How is it she knows it does more than knows it doesn't? (Isn't she ridiculous?) Or did she mean, 'I have no eye, Dear'? That might explain it?...depending on what side of the car he got in, of course? OR...maybe she's the sleepwalker, and slept-drove at night and picked up a hairy-biker hitchhiker whose Harley had broken down? "I said was the owner of the bottle in the car? She said she didn't know." HAHAHAHAHAHA! Lisa Romano has just 'strummed your pain with her fingers', so to speak.... 'I submit to you, Mrs Anon Ymous, that there WAS an owner of this bottle, and that you know perfectly well WHOSE IT IS!' / 'Sustained! (*bang!*) Either you ARE a barrister or investigator, my Learned Colleague, and fibbed about being a contractor to aid anonymity, or you're wasted. As Lisa points out - await the (in her case) Passive (Covert, actually) Revenge. Oh yeah...... Next time, it'll be TWO bottles! HAHAHAHA! She's FUNNY! You could make a comedy threatrical play about her - don't you think? Anyway, it could be that her girlfr-sorry, colleague from work is a bit butch.....called, Lesley, but Les for-short. Or, as I say, she planted it. Having stolen it from the gym, no doubt (oh, nothing's beyond them - you imagine the (warped) freedom if you had no Jimminy Cricket to stop you.) "I said well either the owner of the bottle or somebody else left the bottle in the car, or else the bottle launched itself into the car." HAHAHAHAHAHA - IT WAS SUICIDAL! "Which of those things seems more likely?" (Answer the question, please, Witness.) "She said it was probably one of the valets. I said we've already been through this." "Circular Argument" Alert!!! A spesh of the n-spath or adult covert/vulnable. Gowoogle. "You said you checked with the valets and no one claimed it." "She was speechless." Yah. Because she had dropped it......and she is a narcissist....which MEANS, she thinks she's Bagpuss: 'When Bagpuss wakes up, so do all his other friends / When Bagpuss goes to sleep, so does, etc. / When Bagpuss forgets all about it, you VILL forgedt about eet tdoo orr she vill shoot you later!'. "She forgot about that part." Or she's pretending she had. (Either is whacko and stinks of the fact she sees you as her enemy, not her husband/partner, so - makes no diff." "I said I don't normally see valets walking around with water bottles." 'Cept down their trousers (if they've the room). "If they have one they would set it down somewhere." Or if they're out for revenge - set it down under the crap in your car. In the BACK.....SEAT......(thirsty work, this!)... Ya get me? "And they certainly have no reason to bring it into your car just to move it a few feet. Might they get thirsty during the ten seconds they're in your car, and dehydrate before they get back to their water bottle, so they bring it with them into your car?" HAHAHAHAHAHA! High Five! It's you - not her. YOU'RE funny! (This would make a BRILLIANT dark-comedy stageplay!) "She said she didn't know where it came from, a little louder this time." I do that to foreigners. They usually understand it far better if you shout it the second time. :p "I said well someone left it in your car whether it was the owner or someone else. So who do you think it was? She just sat there and stared at me." Ooooh, you got the Covert Blank Stare! (google) Not reading ahead - so I hope you stared back until SHE cracked? "Then she sarcastically said well maybe it was from my young lover. I said was it?" HE SHOOTS AN' 'E SCOOORES, AN' THE CROWD GOES WIWD!!!! "She walked out." Really? She didn't want to deny it and argue her innocence? She's the type LOVES to keep you hanging, doesn't she. (Like.... I'll leave my husband SOON, I promise!) Put it this way, *I* think she's got a perfectly good idea who did it - IF it really WASN'T her (including deliberately walking off to ensure more mental torture in the form of your being left hanging again... because she LIKES you "insecure" through not knowing one way or t'other? Again, either is divorce-worthy. (Diff is: Covert, more just REACTIVE; NSpath plots....but is shite at it, e.g. doesn't extrapolate widely or far-sightedly enough, and drops the ball by overlooking/forgetting the all-important details (- trying to be a malignang Psycho, whom the sickos admire and wanna be...fat chance.) "So she was obviously lying." Yup, her lips were moving. "We'll see how it goes." We will that. "I expect that she'll spend a couple of days concocting a story and then present it to me." Clever you! - yes. You're NOT going to get the truth out of her so if I were you - save your breath and, when she raises it, go, 'What?....Oh, I've forgotten all about that' (and rapidly change topic or room). She likes 'hanging'? Would she like Fries with that? :p Come on, let's start sending her dizzy. Yupferit? "With most people, if you don't argue with them, they will keep trying to convince you. That's how you know they're lying. This is what I do. I don't argue with people. I ask them questions and let them construct their own noose." SSSSNAP! And that's what barristers do. And 'friendly' interrogators. If you want to tip her into Narc Rage and get to see a large portion of her truer colours - get her dizzy (ask and I shall instruct) and then start the interrogation all over again (mwa-ha-ha-ha-haaa). But seriously, if you additionally have FUN with this, you'll win in record time for-sure. They can't cope. Because it's not in the script ("Narc Playbook") and anything off-script/situational plot, sends their poor little brains/egos into a spin. And they increasingly start dropping the ball all over the shop. "And when most people are lying they're scrambling and not thinking clearly, so it's easy to confuse them and get them to make mistakes. I'll keep you posted." Correctamundo! DAMN right, you will. Peas/fank-oo. :) "Oh yeah and the bringing someone home from work thing. She said it never happened. I said it did happen and it happened twice. She said she would never suggest that and I must have misunderstood. She said she was probably asking me if I wanted her to bring someone home to help me with yard work. To be a good liar you have to be quick thinking and unemotional. She's neither." 'Sheeee's GAT NO STRINGS...TO-hold-her down...la la-la-la, la-la-la-la!' (sing along, everybody?!)... (Don't fancy yours much, haha.) (I expect, neither do you, now, eh.)

PS: If you keep this up - you've got the makings of becoming a SuperNova Empath, i.e. Narc-slayer. (These days, it'll make you EXCEEDINGLY popular!)

Anyway, as I say - if those Qs take 2 weeks then they take 2 weeks, no prrrrrrroblemo, Senor! But they are super-important; otherwise you're playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey and want you need is, Sniper accuracy so that nothing you do can backfire. There are things you can do/say to pure Narcs that you can't do with Narc-Spaths, where co-morbidities are in-play. For now, 'homework' aside, in response to that interrogation, you have these safe-either-way choices: 1. Wait and then re-interrogate. 2. Wait while dizzying her, then re-interrogate. 3. 'Go back to normal', which represents giving her enough rope to actually hang herself with. Which, she will. If they believe they've got away with another crime or duping, they get so cocky they become careless. 4. Go 'emotional Grey Rock' and get her so focussed on working YOU out, that she hasn't got time to play up. That won't last, though. But the Grey Rock has to. You do realise by now that there's no fixing or changing her? That this is it....increasingly getting worse and worse? And there is the crux difference that makes the WHOLE difference: With a relationship where BOTH partners are pleasing-pleasing try-triers, the relationship gets better and better over time. With a fauxlationship (one normal-empathetic, the other a Malignant Narc), the relationship gets worse and worse over time. And hasn't that just nutshelled this whole thing? I should cocoa. Speak again soon. Very well handled, again! :) But don't ever underestimate her. These are barrel-scraping desperados.