Paying for college

I have a daughter who is a graduate student at Harvard. We last spoke at Christmas, and after I discussion only on politics she said that I rejected her as a person. She has not spoken to me since, and with today being father's day it is disappointing. I also agreed to pay $28,000 a year toward college. This is mostly her rent and spending as she is on scholarship at school. As it stands, her position is that speaking to me is unhealthy to her as a person. We are essentially estranged. My question is should I continue to pay for college. I paid the money year 1, we are entering year 2. So the remaining exceptions is $56,000. Would you continue to support your child in graduate school if you were estranged. In terms of income, I do make a great income. I make about $250,000 per year. I do have financial stress. From raising three kids, being divorced I am about 250,000 in debt also. So I am delaying paying that off as quickly.

You're not the first father to be cold shouldered because of political views & you won't be the last. If you have the NEED to assist your daughter at college, you'll let your actions speak without uttering a word & keep on paying her way. If you don't have the need, then you're left with 'the want' & you probably wouldn't bother posting on this forum looking for an answer if it's all about 'the want'...after all, you're still carrying debt. At the end of the day, you're still her father regardless if you apparently 'diminish her as a person'...God forbid. Yep, it's a challenge as you're not obligated to cop it & still cough up the fees. However, the girl will eventually realise that she's at college to study, to learn, to achieve something, to get her 'ducks lined up in a row'...& to respect her father even if she doesn't agree with him on everything. From one successful father to another..good luck bloke.

"We last spoke at Christmas, and after I discussion only on politics she said that I rejected her as a person. She has not spoken to me since" ColeradoDad, what was the discussion about? Can you try to reiterate it for us? This might just be a temporary clash, you see. She is, after all, at that age where she's (David Attenborough whisper, please) thuh... Beta...testing its....strength ...against the Alpha. Details please?

...not that you should cease funding her education; that's just what good dads do (if they can afford to - which you can). Otherwise, if you withdraw that support, it's like you're admitting you were paying her to always be in agreement or amicable with you, no matter what, rather than doing your fatherly duty. She's another adult now (so she thinks). Adults clash with adults, innit. Has she never clashed with you or you with her before? (If not - WOW!...someone call Guinness Book Of Records, haha!)

I mean I'm not a young woman (I'm a middle-aged man) and I still clash with my parents over political views pretty regularly. It's kind of hard not to when your values and ideals completely contradict each others'. From my perspective, it feels like my parents' political views don't make much sense, and that they've essentially chosen to support the views of the people in society that I was raised not to be like. It probably won't ever make sense to me. Manalone and Soulmate gave some pretty good feedback. I can't really tell you what you should do, but it is impressive that your daughter is going to school on a scholarship. If the schooling is pretty much paid for, then your daughter is in a good position to focus on learning and becoming successful in her field. Also, maybe it's a good thing your daughter realizes the two of you don't have the best relationship. Sometimes a little distance can be better than being at each others' throats and fighting constantly. At the same time, if you're already in debt and trying to get yourself in better order financially, maybe you should try setting aside more money to take care of that. A fair deal might be to continue paying for her rent, but to have her see about picking up a part-time job to help cover her spending, or something to that effect. (Actually, I never asked whether she is already working or contributing to her expenses. I was assuming you were paying for all of it, but I don't know if that's the case, and I don't know how expensive the cost of living is where she's at.) Anyway, that's all I can add for now. Hopefully there's some useful thoughts there.

The discussion was only about politics. And how Trump is a dictator and responsible for the death of so many Americans. It was around chrsimas and I dont remember all of it. I know she said she was support social anarchy as a system of government, and then she said that she knows it wouldn't work in practice but that it is the system of government that she supports. I just dont get it. She's 24 and has never really worked. She has been a ski life operator one winter to ski every day. Other than that she has been supported through myself and scholarships. She went to University of Virginia undergrad and is now at Harvard. The discussion that was the biggest blow up we ONLY discussed politics. And it lead her to tears, where of course we ended the conversation. She said that in disagreement with her political beliefs was a rejection of her as a person. So since January she has not spoken to me or answered my texts. And then nothing yesterday on father's day. not a call or a text. The advice here is clearly to continue to support her, but how can you support someone who rejects any relationship with you. how is that something that you would reinforce in your child. I am asking the question because I cant see stopping either. I guess I am at this point. I see how emotionally this would be a dagger and hard for BOTH of us. But logically and for her development, I think some input that when you reject people, to continue to expect them to support you is ridiculous. AND, maybe just parenting is different. I also feel in parenting you unconditionally love and support your kids. In short< I have absolutely no idea what to do. I wont decide until I am past the emotionhe disappointment of being ignored on father's day, and probably will cbnrinye for 2 more years; I guess I am just looking for advice from people who have been in a similar position

Well, at the end of the day, it's actions that count. And I have to say it doesn't put you in the best light, Colerado Dad, the fact that your *action* was that your question (singular) was: Do I have other people's majority permission to stop giving my fatherly support. Surely the question should be: Does anyone have any advice on how to heal this rift? And then, if the truth is you're getting financially desperate - AFTER that, to ask about whether or not this incident gives you permission to stop funding her education. Non?

To HER, I mean. Parenting is the only relationship on the planet that genuinely and legitimately is supposed to be Unconditional. If you'd die for your kids then, how is any lesser thing a problem? UNLESS YOU'RE suffering because of them. Needlessly. That's different....however, the way you put it, it didn't sound like it was. So I wonder how you came across to her? Fairy Godmother Wand time: If this were a film plot and you the director: How would you WANT things go from here? You can't achieve something if you can't name it.

" I wont decide until I am past the emotionhe disappointment of being ignored on father's day, and probably will cbnrinye for 2 more years" Probably will be for 2 more years? Huh? Where did you get that from? (Defo Wand Time.)

Or - is she trying to make you chase her? Does she think you have something to prove? GenZ new adults are very wily, you know. They find a way. I mean - you're acting like you're never going to see her again (which I bet you anything you like, is total rubbish). And so is she. So clearly the two of you aren't used to having 'arguments'/debates together. No offense, but the pair of you are sh*t at it. I'd give you 1 out of 10 (and her, zero). That's all I can assume is why the pair of you are being so OTT? Lack of practise? Or is it, lack of practise at 'intimacy'? You're divorced, right?

All, Thanks for the advice. I did write that post on Fathers Day eve after not hearing from Grace all day. And Ive texted her and called her a combination of 5 times (since our political discussion last December) with no response. It's clear she has chosen to break of communication. It will be two more years because Grace and did talk about her acceptance to Harvard over a year ago, and she told me that it was a 3 year program. She completed her year 1 in May 2025. Grace is smart focused and capable, She will likely stay on schedule. That girl is capable. She took up hiking, and then after only a little experience hiked the PCT, Appalaichan, and then Continental Divide trail over 3 summers. So three hikes that were about 1500 miles each, 5 months on the trail each summer in a tent and sleeping bag carrying your meals. So I think she can do anything she decides to do and this is a three year program. That's a good point to ask how to fix this, I think the giving up on my part stems from she has not spoken to me in 6 months, after consistent efforts on only my part to speak to her. If there is no conversation at all there can be no repair. At some point, if you are estranged you are estranged. I have rally made my decision to keep paying for all of year 2. I am HOPING to buy time before making a very impactful and emotional decision with the belief that we will begin talking again and can repair the relationship. I will NEVER speak about politics with her again, LOL.. But only communicate how proud I am of her, how much I love her, and miss talking to her. I do think that if this extends 12 or 14 months, I would not pay for year 3. I think if you child has chosen to be estranged for 18 months then you also have to respect that. But I hope that it doesn't get to that. And I dont know, or dont want to predict what I will do a year form now today. That would be foolish. That's where Im at. And thanks to everyone for advice. To my original point, Im not sure anyone has been in this situation. I was hoping to meet someone who did support a child through college and the child did not speak to them for 6 months, a year, or longer and how they felt afterward.

There's another element in the mix as well (oh yeah - perfect storm, this kind of thing usually is!). You probably humiliated her, actually. There she is, having had her mind stretched and influenced - courtresy of the scholarship and you... She trots proudly back to you, hoping to impress you with her intellect over such grown-up matters... And there was you, slamming her down and (I presume) proving her wrong, like a pro Barrister. Next time, don't behave as if you're arguing with a peer (or an intellectual Mike Tyson). When they're not long out of teenagedom, know when to treat them as adults and when not (cough! especially if their emotional development got interrupted). Just INTERVIEW her. Keep asking questions - be interested in ALL the reasons behind why she holds those beliefs. Pretend you yourself are undecided and let her believe she's (shock-horror) INFLUENCED you - a grown man, set in his ways (beta-alpha). ...Juuust a little...don't want her getting a big head or anything. But really, proud lickle toddler came home from Nursery with a self-portrait and you went, 'That's sh*t - doesn't look anything LIKE you!'. The under-developed side of her, understandably, went: Waaaaah! and spat the dummy. Whoops. You will ALWAYS "be the adult" and "her, the child", relatively-but-applicationally-factually-speaking - so - it's all up to you. (You tried Mumsnet yet?) (Welcome to the giant learning curve of life, called, Finally Getting To Know Your Kid, Including The Donkey-Work This Time - including - Having To Have Endless Discussions in place of issuing instructions - and - Being Used As Intellectual Self-Testing Equipment.) Now then.... Interflora Time, isn't it? For 'making' your baby cry when the power over her emotional state and ability to self-regulate was always going to be yours - Dadda's - when stood in the Full Grown-Up arena? Just for that fact? - who cares why/what over? How big a bunch? What are you going to put on the note (letter) (be honest with the florist and they'll undoubtedly make an exception to word length)? (If I'm being over-presumptious, and there are far many more issues involved as give a different problem definition and solution, do say. But this is one of the usual, normal-healthy behind-scenes scenarios, anyway.) PS: We've got Brexit and Covid (and Narcs getting power) to thank for the fact parents are having to financially support their kids for far longer than ever before; it's not their fault. It's ours. Our generation. So yeah - regardless of how we feel: we owe them that extended parenting (whilst protecting their pride about it).

Crikey, you're quick?!.... Wait up... "That's a good point to ask how to fix this, I think the giving up on my part stems from she has not spoken to me in 6 months, after consistent efforts on only my part to speak to her. If there is no conversation at all there can be no repair." Where are you getting these weird ideas from? Of course there can! Haven't you ever heard of Time-Out and the Godsend-in-disguise called, Formal Separation??? Where you been??? "She completed her year 1 in May 2025. Grace is smart focused and capable, She will likely stay on schedule. That girl is capable. She took up hiking, and then after only a little experience hiked the PCT, Appalaichan, and then Continental Divide trail over 3 summers. So three hikes that were about 1500 miles each, 5 months on the trail each summer in a tent and sleeping bag carrying your meals. So I think she can do anything she decides to do and this is a three year program" (Oh, I thought you meant, 2 more years of her not talking to you.) Cheers for What Grace Can Do. What about - What Grace Is Like? "At some point, if you are estranged you are estranged. I have rally made my decision to keep paying for all of year 2. I am HOPING to buy time before making a very impactful and emotional decision with the belief that we will begin talking again and can repair the relationship. I will NEVER speak about politics with her again, LOL.. But only communicate how proud I am of her, how much I love her, and miss talking to her." You're still in High DefCon. You're talking nonsense. 'Never speak politics again' - do WHAT?! Let's let you calm down some more and get even realer. (Good start, though - your heart's in the right place.) (PHEW! That's the whole battle won already.) Go and watch a film or something, do stuff you enjoy, STOP. PANICKING. FOR. NOTHING. Fact: what dictates failure is when you fear to point of believe you will. You Are *Dadda*. And nobody else. If it's fixable, it will be fixed. *Never* stop paying. Until she is financially independent and solvent and can fly solo - BOOM. That's just one way out of millions of getting her back. It's not If - it's When...(oh ye of little faith).

PS: Yes, I'm a parent and yes I'm still financially supporting him, albeit, in ever decreasing circles, albeit his dosh still goes up and down due to the nature of his biz (own start-up) (a lot of post-grad GenZ's are preferring to start their own bizes). Last visit he bought me an expensive meal! This visit, he couldn't afford it. Who cares!...it's the fact he wanted to - insisted! But the overall fact is - he's starting to 'take over'. As Nature dictates. Before he knows it, he'll be changing MY nappies! :) That'll be nice for him, won't it....be another eye-opener?

PPS: She'll have a completely different set of Politics in another year or two - you watch. She's still in the changing-room, trying on different adult costumes. (Girl, Interrupted.) Innit. (They ALL got interrupted!............We didn't.)

I really dont think I humiliated her. We were at a table playing cards. 4 were playing (Me, Daughter, her boyfriend, and my mom/grandma) and at the table were my sister and my dad/grandpa wathcing us play cards and enjoying the conversation. The politics went way wild. I remember saying that I respect all of her positions, yet don't agree. (she said that social anarchy is the system of government that she would endorse. Please wrap your head around that) Then she started with a rejection of her political beliefs is a rejection of her as a person. I can have a calm discussion about politics where we disagree and it isnt a problem. But not with grace. She needs me to agree with her or I am disrespecting her. And in the days and weeks after my parents and sister who were there for the entire conversation overwhelmingly thought Grace was out of control. And if you think they take my side to spare my feelings, that is far from true. My mother and sister are definitely straight shooters who are "honest to a fault". they are not sparing feelings. They would tell me im out of place in a second. This thread is interesting, because my sister and dad both think that she is spoiled and doesn't understand the value of work or money at all. They think she is a silver spoon child who doesn't know the value of work. So my father was on his own for college. Joined the marines and did 4 years. honorable discharge. GI Bill and paid his own college. No-one helped my dad. My parents paid for some of my college and also some of my sisters college. I worked through college just as my sister did. Grace is vey smart, and earned scholarships. She is 24 and never really had a job. She went to an elite private school. I am successful but we never could have afforded that. My wife worked there to get 75 percent off tuition as a principal. If I have a net worth of $1,500,000 then the average student there had a family net worth of $10,000,000 or more. yachts. Casteles, yes castles in England and Scotland. Planes. OK. But my family thinks that Grace should get a job for the first time in her life and her attitude is a reflection of being supported so much for so long. Anyway, there is that. And Grace also sees me having success and being a millionaire (in assets of the business I own, not cash). I am paying off alot of debt with the income. Then my father has really been a great saver. He was an accountant and made good money but not much more than $90,000 most of his life. My mother worked her whole life as an RN. But they saved. And they have sizable assets. Then my ex wife father is extremely successful. He has a net worth of $7,000,000 or more. He was an investor in my business when I was married to his daughter. So in some way, Grace sees both Grandparnts are mlliionaires and her father is. So again, there people around that will help me live a life even at 24 where Ive never had to work to support myself. Not only will they support me, but I can also reject them and tell them that the relationship is toxic and she doesn't want to talk to them. Grace has said the she doesnt want to talk to me for a while occasionally. She has never said that she doesn't want to talk to me for the rest of my life. So I didnt go to Harvard, I went to University of Houston. But I dont think Grace is smarter than me. I think she studies better than I did in high school, and I think she has more education than me. But I dont think she is any smarter than I am. I think that is it. If I dont agree with her she is threatened by that. Which is vanity on her part, I think she needs a ton of humility. And her mother is great, she always read to her and we both valued education a ton. We sacrificed sending her to that school for 12 years. We really couldn't afford it. And it is a complete disconnect that her mother reading to her for years started her off well. That intentionally sending her to an elite school helped get her where she is today is also naive. She worked her but off, and she is intelligent. She went to better schingools than her brother and sister. But it is a joke that her environment helped as much as her strong work ethic. it's honestly a little rude in my opinion what is gong on. I bet I get alot of criticism now on this forum, and that fine. I think the Gen Z comments are right on. I think kids are extremely entitled and lack respect of elders in general. And I think this is a great example of that. I also think that I support my kids regardless of their behavior. Would I help my son if he got a DUI. yes. Would I be proud of that. NO. So do I support my daughter while I think she is being disrespectful. For now I am. I just think I am perpetuating a silver spoon existence. it think she is 24 and has no work ethic outside of studying. I think she has a lack of respect for elders, but maybe it's just me. Ive seen her emotionally rip her brother and sister apart 40 times. She always patronizes them because she is "so smart". Now that she is at Harvard it's like the proof that she's needed that everyone should acknowledge her as superior to them. She actually said that to me. She said this about her uncle who is a preacher. And he is a great guy. Here "Now that I will have a graduate degree in divinity Uncle Chris (again a pastor and very smart humble guy) WILL HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM RIGHT ABOUT GOD, because I go to Harvard.

I'll read and respond to that later (been up all night long, cashing-in on the cool and dip in humidity, need to sleep). Bear with...

Not ready yet but just had to tell you... How's this for a coinkydinky? Just been listening to James O'Brien's morning show on LBC (UK based but pretty international radio station) - and you can Listen Again (and/or watch) on LBC's website. The topic was, can you continue a relationship if yours and a friend/lover/parent's political beliefs (as are in essence based on one's morals) - clash horribly? Personally and experientially, I think it's a 'glove puppet' of an excuse...a cover reason for flouncing (for however-long).... just a final straw, following something having got built over time in the run-up, something that can't clearly be articulated or justified, verbally... resentment that needs to be acted-out, finally, so, anything plausible enough will do. While you're waiting for me to respond to your last mssg - can you think of anything? OR she could be putting you to the fatherly test - to see if her flounce ends-up making you withdraw financial support or not?

(If you've already answered those questions in your prior message then obviously you can just wait for me to read.) (Sorry, I'm dashing around at the mo.)

I dont care at all what she believes politically. I could only see it being a problem if someone believed in some aggressive murder ideas, allowing 12 year olds to be married, racial incarcerations, or something really extreme. None of her ideas frustrate me. I am only concerned with calling our relationship toxic and going six months or longer with zero interaction. Today I had an employee inform us she has malaria, and had been working with us. Because Grace has an undergrad in biology and Mariah has a degree in nursing I asked them what their thoughts were. Mariah answered and grace hasn't. I did ask a couple of other business owners what they would do, but also strategically asked Grace and Mariah together.

"I really dont think I humiliated her." Yeah, but you 'really didn't think' she'd react as extremely as all that, either, did ya. ;p So I'll pass on your 'really don't thinks' for now, cheers, haha. (Only teasing cos you're walking straight into them. But on a more serious note, it does indicate you're not thinking things through far enough. I'm putting that down to the fact you're more upset than you sound. (Good, otherwise I'd be yelling for Matron).) "We were at a table playing cards." Which game? (Yes, it factors.) "4 were playing (Me, Daughter, her boyfriend, and my mom/grandma)" Oh, her BOYFRIEND was there! How long have they been dating? (Yeah, I think you did (humiliate her). So-reeeee.) "and at the table were my sister and my dad/grandpa wathcing us play cards" Oh, god - AAAAND AN AUDIENCE! And was alcohol involved? Or exhaustion? (Or someone's nappy needed changing?) "and enjoying the conversation. The politics went way wild." So none of you have EVER been to a dinner-party, then. Or did you think everyone could take it because they're family? (No need to answer questions you've happened to address already, it's just, I deliberately don't read ahead so's I get the full impact.) "I remember saying that I respect all of her positions, yet don't agree." You agreed to disagree. Fairenoughski, that's perfectly gentlemanly...unless you cut her off afore she'd finished making her points and substantiations? Let's see... " (she said that social anarchy is the system of government that she would endorse. Please wrap your head around that)" I can't - so that requires the other interlocutor to declare - 'WHY do you?' Did you ask her why? "Then she started with a rejection of her political beliefs is a rejection of her as a person." Ollocks. Unless she's been rejected for that before?...by (immature) friends? Well, anyway - so she was losing the argument and grabbed for Ad Hominem. Where and from whom could she have learned that, then? Is she aware it's the domain of the Thicky-but-tricky? "I can have a calm discussion about politics where we disagree and it isnt a problem." Yes. Because you're a fully-grown adult. "But not with grace." No. Because she's not. Methinks she thought you should let her win. Did you ever used to do that? That IS immature for her on-paper age, though - you realise that? Cheating and thinking she can get away with it, with or without setting off a social stinkbomb (tantrum). What's she like the rest of the time? And is she easily led/influenced? Has she ever been like this before or is this a first (think very carefully - 'cold' tantrums are still tantrums). "She needs me to agree with her or I am disrespecting her." She reacted like she felt she'd been betrayed somehow - indeed. And it doesn't sound at all as if it was anything you did - BAR perhaps giving her a task too above her by engaging in such a complex, adult conversation as that. Do you know or have you ever witnessed how many normally sensible, perhaps professional, ADULTS have spat the dummy and flounced from dinner-parties because they can't control the over-passion that politics stokes (BECAUSE it's based on ones most-treasured, core moral values)? And they're "real" grown-ups - she's a barely-adult, interrupted and delayed. Anyhoo... "And in the days and weeks after my parents and sister who were there for the entire conversation overwhelmingly thought Grace was out of control." Because they're supposed to believe that the conversation topic was the problem, rather than 'what lays beneath' or, indeed, to the side. This might be triggering based on how some so-called friends have treated her, and you hit a nerve(?). "And if you think they take my side to spare my feelings, that is far from true." No, I don't. (:p) My insight (nosiness) goes far deeper than that. But thanks for sharing your insecurity there. I tasted it and - yeah.... Defcon2 flavour alright. "My mother and sister are definitely straight shooters who are "honest to a fault". they are not sparing feelings. They would tell me im out of place in a second." In a SECOND, eh? How very interestink. Cheers for the giant Scooby Clue. Question: Can't one be honest to a fault AND take care not to hurt feelings? Question: Is her mother a sensitive type? Question: Why did you think it was a brilliant idea to play 'catch' with a well-known social 'bomb', with your daughter who's half your age and life experience, anyway? Did you need a spar? (Not presuming - just asking/frisking the situation.) (Ooooh, look what I just did, without thinking!... I walked on eggshells - preemptively reassured to passify you....) You're a force to be reckoned with, aren't you. Company owner-director? Very dynamic? Do you yourself realise HOW much?...how forceful?...even just your presence/vibe? What DefCon level were you in that evening? Had you had a tough week? "This thread is interesting, because my sister and dad both think that she is spoiled and doesn't understand the value of work or money at all." Psych fact: kids whose parents were generous with money are the ones more likely to value it and be careful with their finances than kids who were deprived. PS: That's not a very nice way to speak about ones own neice and grandchild, is it? Do you defend her? What about what I now think about your sister and dad? ...Brusque...'tough'....thick-skinned....bit insensitive for kids? Did they stick their oars into the argument or stay respectfully and trustingly schtum? "They think she is a silver spoon child who doesn't know the value of work." No, it's ADULTS that know the value of work. Otherwise we'd still be sending them up t' chimneys (or have Haribo cops for-real). The kid learns the value of work once they (wait for it) START WORK...in the REAL world...for 'someones elses'...and keep getting feedback that doesn't align with whatever pertinant things they were taught within their family and friends bubble...and each time, make another adjustment (to the attitudes, expectations, etc. OF the real world). Final question for now: Did your parents and rellies tend to ride roughshod over your feelings as a child whilst trying to 'toughen you up'? (Again, just a question)? ________________________________________ ...Yeah, I want you to wait and calm down a bit more than this, if that's okay, and I'll just read the rest silently from here and then 'knock on your door' again by Friday latest. Meanwhile - the chances of your daughter never-EVER-"E...VAHHH" speaking to you again based on such an ostensibly TENUOUS reason or pretense as all that - would be too ridiculous even for HER psyche to tolerate for long! For the sake of her pride, she'd HAVE to crack and reveal the real reason at SOME point. Hang on a minute - I've just spotted THE MARINES. The Marines. Yeah, that well-known establishment so expert in providing and staffing Kindergartens and Childcare servicies - you mean THAT Marines? God god... Is this a solved dagger I see before me, and, indeed, this whole barney was just a catalyst to 'what lays (unexpressed - unallowed to be expressed) beneath'? Have a thinkipoos with a drinkipoos, Dadda. Try to remember when YOU were that passionate and sensitive (or is it your wife?).... And see how, if I'm right and she's had banked-up frustrations and resentments already in her - now given the confidence in her indepenence of the family, i.e. feeling SAFE ENOUGH to self-assert and express it (albeit hidden behind the politics) - AND - WORSE - if the aunt and gramps indeed dove in (because they already judge her too harshly, clearly don't understand kids' sensitivities/sensitive kids) - then you should now see how her over-reaction is nothing of the sort. Sense? BTW - we confession: I've been deliberately a bit cynical and sarcy with you... like wot GenZ uni kids are like, innit...to see how you'd react. Sozzies about that but it had to be done (because of your Iffy last-resort solution as your first-resort...methinks it's family fleas). So I don't think you, yourself, are the problem. But, that you're (still) not SIDING with her. Does that sound like a fair observation? I'll be straight from now on. "So my father was on his own for college. Joined the marines and did 4 years. honorable discharge. GI Bill and paid his own college. No-one helped my dad. My parents paid for some of my college and also some of my sisters college. I worked through college just as my sister did. Grace is vey smart, and earned scholarships. She is 24 and never really had a job. She went to an elite private school. I am successful but we never could have afforded that. My wife worked there to get 75 percent off tuition as a principal. If I have a net worth of $1,500,000 then the average student there had a family net worth of $10,000,000 or more. yachts. Casteles, yes castles in England and Scotland. Planes. OK. But my family thinks that Grace should get a job for the first time in her life and her attitude is a reflection of being supported so much for so long. Anyway, there is that. And Grace also sees me having success and being a millionaire (in assets of the business I own, not cash). I am paying off alot of debt with the income. Then my father has really been a great saver. He was an accountant and made good money but not much more than $90,000 most of his life. My mother worked her whole life as an RN. But they saved. And they have sizable assets. Then my ex wife father is extremely successful. He has a net worth of $7,000,000 or more. He was an investor in my business when I was married to his daughter. So in some way, Grace sees both Grandparnts are mlliionaires and her father is. So again, there people around that will help me live a life even at 24 where Ive never had to work to support myself. Not only will they support me, but I can also reject them and tell them that the relationship is toxic and she doesn't want to talk to them. Grace has said the she doesnt want to talk to me for a while occasionally. She has never said that she doesn't want to talk to me for the rest of my life. So I didnt go to Harvard, I went to University of Houston. But I dont think Grace is smarter than me. I think she studies better than I did in high school, and I think she has more education than me. But I dont think she is any smarter than I am. I think that is it. If I dont agree with her she is threatened by that. Which is vanity on her part, I think she needs a ton of humility. And her mother is great, she always read to her and we both valued education a ton. We sacrificed sending her to that school for 12 years. We really couldn't afford it. And it is a complete disconnect that her mother reading to her for years started her off well. That intentionally sending her to an elite school helped get her where she is today is also naive. She worked her but off, and she is intelligent. She went to better schingools than her brother and sister. But it is a joke that her environment helped as much as her strong work ethic. it's honestly a little rude in my opinion what is gong on. I bet I get alot of criticism now on this forum, and that fine. I think the Gen Z comments are right on. I think kids are extremely entitled and lack respect of elders in general. And I think this is a great example of that. I also think that I support my kids regardless of their behavior. Would I help my son if he got a DUI. yes. Would I be proud of that. NO. So do I support my daughter while I think she is being disrespectful. For now I am. I just think I am perpetuating a silver spoon existence. it think she is 24 and has no work ethic outside of studying. I think she has a lack of respect for elders, but maybe it's just me. Ive seen her emotionally rip her brother and sister apart 40 times. She always patronizes them because she is "so smart". Now that she is at Harvard it's like the proof that she's needed that everyone should acknowledge her as superior to them. She actually said that to me. She said this about her uncle who is a preacher. And he is a great guy. Here "Now that I will have a graduate degree in divinity Uncle Chris (again a pastor and very smart humble guy) WILL HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM RIGHT ABOUT GOD, because I go to Harvard." I'll just point out the non-personal bits for now: "She is 24 and never really had a job." NORMAL. Again - thank the crash followed by austerity followed by Brexit (Breaksit) and Covid (god's fury?) (those feet DID walk on England's plastic-bags, you know...and many OTHER places...but I digress). "But my family thinks that Grace should get a job for the first time in her life and her attitude is a reflection of being supported so much for so long. " TSK! NO, IT'S NNNNOT?! IT'S CALLED RECOVERY FROM A GIANT DRIP-DRIP FOUR-PART SOCIETAL AND GLOBAL TRAUMA. Tell me - did YOU get to see a Black man DYING - from BEING MURDERED - by a POLICEMAN - WHEN YOU WERE HER AGE? ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE? (Hand your parents and sister over - I wanna word with them.) "I think she needs a ton of humility" Yeah, but you're being hugely impatient, all world-destructive goings-on considered. And they're pushing you from behind. Did it ever occur to you that they're envious of the calibre of the child that you produced? Or just don't understand her a jot and blame her for that? Is Soldierly bravery the ONLY bravery fruit? What about giving your family elders What For as you (cough!) ostracise the lot of them in-one? Is that brave? Just a few snacks for thoughts and, as I say, I'll knock for you asap because I can imagine how wretched you must be feeling. Please don't waste your energy. All you need to succeed in getting her back is, to want to enough (and have me and others play Cerano Bergerac in the background haha).

(You're alright, you are. ;))

(Balance, "I mean I'm not a young woman" No - *I'm* not a young woman. (Nao - darn't listen to 'im - *I'm* not a yang womun!) (Nair - I airm!) (Wharrabout Woderwick?) (Nah - f*ck Woderwick!) (rolls undignifiedly on the floor gaffawing) Brilliant! Cheers for that! :D)

How am I being impatient with Grace? . I am talking to you. Paying her everything as usual. I am calling her and getting ignored. I think you are just finding fault with me regardless. So thanks for the talk but I think I am good.

Then read it again to this time grasp that I'm not. You're (courtesy of your fam) being impatient with Grace because you're/their not taking into account the facts of everything that's been going on in the world that's caused terrible trauma that no young people of their age have ever before experienced, not since WWII. They're all having to take time out to RECOVER and come down from their OWN DefCons. Read that bit about George again. I mean - come ONNN, let's get real here. No? Was that all 'nothing'? Whether anyone else likes it or not, these guys are astoundingly grown-up in one way yet under-developed in another - and still hyper-vigilant. If OUR generation had seen George minute-by-minute being coldly and horribly asphyxiated to-death in front of our very eyes, and not even all the rest of the highly anxious-making crap they've been through (at their most sensitive developmental point) - our secondary schools would have closed as we all sat gibbering in bed, having nervous breakdowns. Even the cadets! Anyway... I'm still going to knock because you're still upset right now and just not getting me correctly. It's up to you whether you answer or not.

What happened to Dr Martin Luther King, both Kennedys, Rodney King was way worse than George Floyd. And that was horrible as well. Clearly. Im not upset, thanks.

PS: The trouble with the calling her, followed by that joint email, especially, was that it smacked (no matter that it was legit on your part) of 'Nothing wrong around here?!', when, for her, there most definitely is and you saw for yourself there is. Just relax, re-read, and wait until you can get on my wavelength and I've got time to explain better so that you won't take things negatively. I'm on your side. And Grace's. The relationship's side (that's better).

"What happened to Dr Martin Luther King, both Kennedys, Rodney King was way worse than George Floyd. And that was horrible as well. Clearly." That's not your generation, your experience, though; you weren't a teenager back then. Plus, George was in full close-up...HD... second-by-second, long-drawn out sense of world betrayal and helplessness (I could go on but I have to go out now - "laters".)

Oh, and, of course (just quickly - gotta dash) - that gen did not have all the other major world stressors to-boot, either. Plus ("Snowflakes") (-pff!). They're FAR more sensitive than yesteryears' teens/young adults, anyway. It affected the GenZ's the worst. Did you know that they're considered by the psych industry to be an evolutionary shunt?

I was 23 when Rodney King was pulled out of his truck. Nearly identical to my Childs age when George Floyd was detained and murdered. Born in 1969 and that unfortunate event took place in 1992. They showed too many officers striking him with clubs, the video was lower quality but the violence was greater. The indignity of murder is equal, but the violent nature of those strikes was significantly more than the choking of George Floyd, Both were murder and horrific. But we saw those men strike him over and over again. And those officers did not face justice, and these officers were appropriately held more accountable. Maybe not accountable enough, but the current officers were not aquitted. So this generation saw some measure of justice. My generation saw the men walk

Heya - sorry I'm late (contractor switched times on me - I'm in Spain...they couldn't run a bath over here; "manana-manana" has become "could be 6 months' time or we could just inconveniently turn up on your doorstep tomorrow, unexpected...drives me mental and makes me flakey in-turn, when I don't want to be). Anyhoo... So with the Rodney event - you CAN appreciate the impactful disruption, then? I still say you weren't going through a serious pandemic and world-economic uncertain...oh, plus World War 3, of course (Sputin) (and now Gaza, etc.). She's clearly thin-skinned and in Defcon - how explosively she reacted say so. Maybe she'd managed to cover it up well until then? What's her boyfriend like? Let's give him a frisk in case he's been encouraging resentments. What was he doing during all of this? How long have they dated? Is the timing related? How is he with and around her? Re. can't communicate - can't fix: that's why Interflora was invented, why I said, send flowers. I suggest you ask the florist for the card to just feature a sad emoji (with tear) and just (something like), 'I'm so incredibly sorry that I upset you, (insert your pet-name or term of affection for her). I hope you're okay? I love you loads, Dad xxxx.' and nothing else. Put the ball firmly in her court yet at the same time, secretly leave yourself room to make a follow-up if nothing comes back within a couple more months (yes, sorry, these things take time to build thus time to let feelings recalibrate before attempting to fix). Other than that, you're not asking for anything. The apology and return doorway isn't conditional. And you're not pitying or trying to justify yourself (now is not the time). PS: What's her birth flower? PPS: Is her academic talent the ONLY thing she feels sets her apart and makes her special?

Oh, wait - and does she herself know her birth flower? Because if not, you could tell/remind her it is in the message as a P.S. Just a WEE manipulation (but for the power of good), called, 'But darling - don't forget Paris...!' Just a tiny twang on the heartstrings.)

The 'CAN YOU OR YOU HELP ME' tack was the one wrong, though. It was asking for a favour ("Whaddafeckingcheek!" would have been the reaction). The flowers are just giving and apologising (setting the adult example aka showing her up to herself haha). Also, the 'never speaking to you again' bit was said in anger and impulse in the heat of the moment/immediate aftermath so - PRRRTH! - ignore it; it wasn't from the heart, just the ego. She'll come round. Feel free to use us here as a reassuring handrail whilst waiting. Sorry again for the ego prodding (sheepish grin) but because of your initial seeming over-focus on using money as a "Take that!" - and with the fact most people here are victims of NPDs and understandably easily triggered/offended by them - it's my job to keep all Iffies and Niffies away from them, that's all - no wozzies. :)

Oh - wait - ALSO: Where was her mum/your wife that night? And what does she think and suggest about all of this? Has she tried to talk to Grace on your behalf? Appreciate, she's rather conspicuous from her absence from the cast list?

My thoughts are your daughter is a fully grown adult and should be doing what other adults do which is depend on themselves. She has a full scholarship for schooling - it's time for her to earn her own way. So give her a deadline by which she needs to stand on her own two feet and be fiscally responsible for herself. 90 to 120 days is fair. Tell her she needs to get a job and buy her own food and pay her own rent and gas and light bill and entertainment. Reduce your support to half at the end of that period, then in another 60 days cut her off completely unless it's an emergency of course. This is a case of don't bite the hand that feeds you. Tolerating disrespect from another person should never be allowed, even if we birthed that person. Not only that, you already have a quarter million of debt and are getting on in years. That needs to be paid off so you can retire in peace and do what YOU want to do with your hard-earned money. None of what I am saying here is retaliatory - it's a reality check for both of you. Having a parent pay for your college is not an entitlement, it's a damn blessing. Plus, like I said, at 24 its long past time for her to be taking care of herself and her own needs. My brothers were gone and paying their own way in life at 18, I dawdled a bit and didn't get out until I was 20. But still, all of us were paying our own way like adults - working, going to school, and handling the responsibilities of our work/study and scholarships. That's how it is in the real world. Your daughter needs to grow up sir.

Hey again, Colorado Dad. I can understand your frustration with the situation. I consider myself to be Left-leaning these days, and once felt that I was a moderate. Talking to fellow people on the Left over the past half a year has been exhausting, though. There is so much infighting, and it's clear that ours is a party that needs change, and better direction and backbone. In a lot of ways I agree with leftists who feel that the Democratic party has failed, and that we need a much more Progressive party for the people. That said, a pretty big portion of the people on the far-Left can also be cuckoo-pants crazy, and spout nonsense about things like anarchy. (Which cannot sustain itself.) Finding a happy-medium can be surprisingly hard, but I have faith that eventually tomorrow's leaders will emerge from this turmoil. Your daughter is attending an Ivy-League school, but she has some definite maturing to do. It is possible that the things she said, she said out of anger and didn't really have the time to collect her thoughts and have a civilized political discussion with you. Turtlemom gives good advice. And as you've said, you feel that your daughter is high past time where she needs to learn to depend on herself. Maybe you can support her with some things, like rent, but encourage her to find employment and bring in her own income to help pay for other things.

"Your daughter is attending an Ivy-League school, but she has some definite maturing to do. It is possible that the things she said, she said out of anger and didn't really have the time to collect her thoughts and have a civilized political discussion with you. Turtlemom gives good advice. And as you've said, you feel that your daughter is high past time where she needs to learn to depend on herself. Maybe you can support her with some things, like rent, but encourage her to find employment and bring in her own income to help pay for other things." PERFECT! PS: But (all), I still think it's imperative to fix this sacred relationship first, as well as wait for it to re-stablize for a good while. It's not about what *we* know or feel "should" be. It's about her reality thus her perception (which includes a heck of a lot of trauma and now paralysis for her agegroup, whether they or anyone is aware of it or not). THAT'S the context. What USED to be the case, would be too cruel on top of everything else and could finish them off. She would probably take anything to do with lowering support straight on the back of this argument, as retaliation...which will just compound the problem. Therefore, you must 'separate' the two To Dos with a decent period of time where they cannot possibly be judged as connected.

PS: Hi and welcome, TurtleMom! :)