Widowed friend obsessed with daughter's life

I know this behavior is not normal, but I cannot talk to my friend about it because it will destroy our friendship. Here is the story: She was widowed in her early 50's several years ago after husband lost his battle with cancer. She has one adult daughter who is married with a toddler and another baby on the way. In the years since her husband passed, she has grown more and more attached to her daughter's life and no exaggeration, it's almost to the point where she doesn't make a move without checking with her daughter first. They're in constant contact, 24/7 either in person, talking on the phone or texting. When my friend and I go out, if she isn't talking to me about her daughter, she's talking to or texting her daughter the entire time we're out. There will be a band on stage, and I'll look over and see her texting away on her phone. Other times we'll be sitting around a table with friends, and she'll start giving everyone the up-to-the minute details of what her daughter is doing at that moment, what she and her family are eating (pictures included) and then go on to tell us what her grandchild would eat and wouldn't eat during dinner. We get the play by play of all the child's temper tantrums, the daughter's arguments with her spouse, and an itemized breakdown of everything her daughter bought during a shopping spree. It has gotten to the point where "living vicariously" doesn't even sum up the issue. She is simply obsessed, and none of us want to tell her because the denial is real. Furthermore, the daughter is a shopaholic and can't stop spending money. She's not in a financial position to afford most of what she wants, so my friend is constantly offering to either pay or split the cost of every whimsical thing she "has to have". Then when we're out, my friend often complains to ME - - incessantly - - about her daughter's spending habits and insists it needs to stop. Rinse and repeat, the next day, she'll go right back out shopping with her daughter and offer to pay for everything because the daughter can't afford it. She enables the behavior and then complains about it. It's a never-ending cycle. And my friend is always the victim in the story because she ends up picking up the tab. A few weeks ago, the situation cost my friend her job, (and she was making pretty good money and had excellent benefits) because the employer got tired of hearing her on the phone with the daughter ALL DAY long, running errands during her work hours for her daughter and taking off days and/or cutting out early to get her grandchild because her daughter had somewhere to be. Instead of owning the fact that she screwed up, she has instead complained for weeks that the employer "screwed her" (again, she's the victim) - and now she's claiming she can't get another job because "no one will want to hire her at her age" (even though she was offered another job). She has instead decided to take care of her grandkids full-time to help her daughter and perpetuate the story that the employer was irrational and she's too old to work. She drew early on a retirement accountant to live and has claimed repeatedly that she can get buy on less money, yet every time I talk to her, I hear about more shopping trips. The spending never stops. I love her to death and I'm completely sympathetic where the loss of her husband is concerned, but I feel like the only reason she goes out with me is because her son-in-law probably wants alone time with his wife. Her daughter is the sweetest girl, but when I go out after a busy work week, I want to have fun. I want to get away from life's stresses. I don't need to hear every detail about her daughter's shopping trips, doctor's appointment, car problems, houseware purchases etc. like it's "Breaking News". When we're in the car, she gets her daughter on the speaker phone because that's 10 minutes more they can talk. My friend is so obsessed with her girl's life that it consumes her. She recently told me she would love to travel more but "can't" (not "won't") because her daughter keeps having babies. ???????? Who is the adult in this relationship? Again, she's the victim because her daughter's decision to have children is holding HER back. I don't want to cut ties with my friend, nor can I tell her any of this because she'd be extremely hurt. I've started making plans with others and slowly begun putting distance between us. I'm not going to be held back, nor am I going to feel guilty for making plans that don't involve someone who can't make a move without getting clearance from her married daughter. I wish she would speak with a counselor, but you know what they say, the first step is to admit you have a problem and my friend is a chronic victim - nothing is ever her fault. The only person holding her back in life is herself, and as much as it pains me, I have to bite my tongue a lot. I'm curious to hear what others would do in my situation. Thanks!

It's your friend's 'victim' attitude & behaviour which is destroying your friendship rather than you having to bite your tongue for the fear of you hurting her. Hats off to you for looking out for her & caring enough to post about it all but you're not responsible for her actions & her interactions with her family. Your challenge is to walk away without looking over your shoulder & just move on with your life as you post that you're starting to do. True friends will always tell you what you need to hear rather than what you want to hear, but you guys haven't been on the same page for a while now & it's your friend who has built the walls around herself & her infatuation with her daughter etc could well be a coping mechanism after her husband's passing, who knows? Yep, you're correct, you friend will need to realise her issues first before anyone else can help her.. & heads up, friends like you will always get splattered by the fallout.

Thank you, I appreciate the response!

"& her infatuation with her daughter etc could well be a coping mechanism after her husband's passing," Oh, definitely. She's literally all she's got in her life now. And worse, since being fired. But it sounds to me like she subconsciously resigned SO THAT she could sell the idea of being even MORE ensconced in her only child and grandkids' lives, more easily ('I'm available anyway, so I may as well - better someone they know than a childminder, yadder-yadder'). Basically, to play it cool with her daughter so's not to be seen as chasing her furiously (for security now her husband's gone). Of course she's in a victim mindset right now. Because she still is. Her 'Rock' died. She needs to plug her insecurity. And (think about it) she's manoeuvring INWARDS, rather than into and exploring the wider world. Hiding in the family nest. It boils down to whether she's worth you sitting her down to TELL her 'her breath smells'. After all, it NEEDN'T destroy the friendship, if you can phrase it right, from an angle of obvious concern that she's okay and is just opting to 'go into quarantine' for a while, not forever, and will settle down. Perhaps you could help her join a club? She needs a project. Almost all loss-traumatised people need something to fill the massive, scary, mind-ucking gap, for a while. But she could accidentally smother her daughter if she's not careful (which she knows, hence altering the way she enveigles herself to in a Helper capacity in order to sweeten the cloying pill, so to speak - see what I'm saying?). Why don't you get her a bit tiddly and giggly first? (And yourself - Dutch Courage and all that.) Or take her to a threatre show? Something exciting for her as well as 'outside of herself' to talk about for a change? Just gently experiment on her; that's what I'd do. Whether you did want to keep her, rather than, this Bore Fest actually being your final straw, your own excuse (in a way) - it would be a very kind thing to do. It's called, Tough Love. :) Are you up for this latest challenge that life has thrown, gauntlet-style, at your feet? Or are you going to decline, only to come up against this sort of friendship problem and impasse again? ;) Put simply: Maybe Fate's handed you a much-needed, overdue dumbell for improving your own peace of mind via a new, very valuable skill? ("Dann-Dann-DAAAAANN!" LOL)

First, I have to say, I love your perspective and very much appreciate your responses! You hit the nail on the head. The "victim" status is nothing more than a way for her to "sell the idea" - the narrative - that she wants others to believe. The problem is, I'm past the point of feeling bad and am now genuinely irritated. Her range of topics go from "my daughter" to "my grandchild", back to "my daughter and my son-in-law", and so on, rinse and repeat. It's ALL she talks about. It's ALL she focuses on. If I bring up the news of the day, she doesn't care - that doesn't interest her. If I told her a bomb got dropped on the White House, she'd probably shrug her shoulders and tell me about the pillows her daughter found at Home Goods. What goes on around the world doesn't affect her, so it isn't important - that's her take. She's got a house full of end-to-end junk, and she's whined incessantly for years that most of it is not her stuff, yet she needs to clean it out. As an unemployed adult with nothing to do, this is a project she could be working on. Instead, she spends her days buying more junk with her daughter and then complains about the fact that she can't park in her garage because it's full of stuff. It's not that I want to end the friendship, but I feel like she's stuck in a self-inflicted rut, and I want to move and explore. I love music. I read. I love documentaries and watch a ton of them. I need to be around people who have interests in life and love to converse about a range of topics. I want to take weekend trips. She is not that person. She's not holding me back, but when we go out, I feel mentally stifled and it's frustrating. It's like trying to have an adult conversation with a kid who is hyper-focused on a stupid reality tv show. She even has one of those tracker apps on her phone so she can see where her 30-year-old daughter is at all times and she's constantly updating me like a kid tracking Santa Claus on Christmas Eve. I agree that tough love is in order.

Well, BLIMEY!...Now that you've gone into specifics and detail - OMFG, you must want to strangle the woman! Or at least scream in her face, WAKE UP! "I'm past the point of feeling bad and am now genuinely irritated." So am I and I haven't even met her! (Although, actually, I 'have'...LOTS of times.) In which case: "She's not holding me back, but when we go out, I feel mentally stifled and it's frustrating." *OH, YES, SHE IS*. NEVER underestimate the Drip-Drips... ESPECIALLY when what's dripping is Frustration. HIGHLY acidic, that one! Nah. Withdraw. Tell her her breath smells WITH YOUR FEET. Or...there's the option of a kind but firm email? 'Hit' her in-one? Third option: Megaphone.... produce over the restaurant table and yell, WHERE ARE YOOOOU? (Fourth: Whoopie Cushion.) (Not kidding not neiver - worked for meee? :D) I'm gonna call Balance over to see this. His GF needs a firework up her bum. But your friend? She needs a nuclear missile! You have my fullest condolences. Stick around for as long as you like if you want moral support or tips (if you're going to give it one last, garguantuan try?). ...Esepcially as you have a brilliant wit. E.g., this one had me gaffawing and rocking whilst holding my tummy (and I'm STILL laffin!): "If I told her a bomb got dropped on the White House, she'd probably shrug her shoulders and tell me about the pillows her daughter found at Home Goods." Ever tried comedy stand-up?

(Manalone): "friends like you will always get splattered by the fallout." ...and then gather the pieces together and make comedy Gold out of it. (Giant Thumbs-Up)

....I'm starting to suspect, this woman was Iffy (or worse - Niffy) from the start but that, either you were too busy/distracted/accompanied to see it (or thought it was as bad as it could get) but have YOURSELF woken up that critical amount - ORRRR - that the grief and (or) sense of "being suddenly abandoned" has finally made her veneer crack and mask fall off. I.e. she can't keep up the act of Normality/Sanity any more. (PD Alert, PD Alert!)

...So, Philameena - am I right in assuming this is the The Moby Dick woman from your other thread?

PS: Another theory: Might she have been PREVENTED from having had a close relationship with her daughter while he was alive, hence, now/since, the obsessive gorging on her? (Not that it excuses her rudeness and obliviousness, of course. Grief is not another word for Arsehole.)

Again, your responses are hugely helpful, highly entertaining and very much appreciated! Yes, this is Moby Dick woman. I think from this point forward, that will be her new name, both on this thread and amongst our friends who endure the "Breaking News out of my daughter's trip to find matching placemats" updates while we're trying to enjoy a band. A friend of mine told me yesterday, after one encounter with Moby Dick woman 2 weeks ago that, "After 5 minutes with her, I could tell right away that she's always a victim." They literally had just met. To your point, I never realized how much of a victim complex she had until this year, and it has only escalated in recent weeks since she lost her job (due to being consumed by her grown daughter - only to blame the employer for firing her without cause, even after the employer had several talks with her over the course of the last year about her behavior). She still brings this up every time we go out, but refers to the situation as "being forced to retire." The proverbial, "I am only doing X because someone is making me" BS has gotten old. I'm literally to the point where I am going to encourage her to move into her daughter's house to save money on her cell phone plan.

"Again, your responses are hugely helpful, highly entertaining and very much appreciated! " Well - good - it's mutual! :) Shame 'Dick' isn't short for anything feminine, but...she's not exactly been behaving femininely, has she. I dunno... I wouldn't stand for that mobile nonsense. I'm more 'in your face' with as few words as possible, like, 'Rude In Company much?' and a hard stare with raised eyebrows as if to say - Well...?...Explain yourself? If for some reason I couldn't - I'd have great fun taking the gentle piss. You have the SOH so I'm sure you could pull it off?.... "Oy, Dick...You SURE that's your daughter you're constantly-constantly texting and ignoring the rest of us for?....OR YOUR NEW, SECRET LOVER?..................Yyyyyeaaaah - daughter-schmaughter - she's not THAT fascinating, is she....Yeeeaahhh, it's a new lover......Got a huge one, has he?" And if that didn't work - up it a level: "Are you phoning for an ambulance?...Did someone finally go and squirt Supaglue on your screen?". And another: "Ooh, maybe *you and your daughter* are having an affair!.............Weeell, it fits?..., ya know?....". And penultimately: (a) "Tell me, Dick... Were you ALWAYS this incredibly, obnoxiously rude and it's simply that we lot have only just been noticing?...or what?" (b) ALL of you (it'll need a pow-wow beforehand, obvs) - scrunch up your paper napkins and simultaneously pelt her with them, preferably with little messages inside (which you point out to her)...call 'em Paper Fortune Cookies (-bit like her friendship, eh - paper), like: "Hello - can you even SEE us?!", and, "How RUUUUDE!", and, "...Aaaaand you are here becaaause...?". Or - variation - you orchestrate it so that the minute she's rude with her phone, you all drop what you're doing and saying and just all stare silently at her until she notices and goes - "Whaaat"...whereupon you keep silently staring but from her phone to her face (moving your head up and down as you do so). Peer Pre-sssssuuuure! Never underestimate that, either. I mean - it can't just be YOU out of the whole group that wants to throttle her, SURELY!? I just wouldn't stand for it; but if you're unused to being rude or ruder back - Baby Steps it. Ultimately is where you order her a dessert topped with custard or squirty cream and shove her face in it before storming off. Or fantasise that you do, haha. (What happened to the good ol' glass of Cinzano or Martini in the face, that's what I'd like to know!) Nah, but, seriously, the woman's clearly addicted. Is having a mobile phone - or using one properly - a novelty for her? Crikey, imagine if she had it snatched. She'd probably have an instant nervous breakdown. Jeez...

"To your point, I never realized how much of a victim complex she had until this year, and it has only escalated in recent weeks since she lost her job (due to being consumed by her grown daughter - only to blame the employer for firing her without cause, even after the employer had several talks with her over the course of the last year about her behavior). She still brings this up every time we go out, but refers to the situation as "being forced to retire."" Narc Alert - Narc Alert!! I just threw my Martini in her face, ...followed by this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GW0Vnr9Yc For her repeatedly insulting everyone's intelligence - TO THAT DEGREE. My vote for what you-plural should do is, just megaphone and Whoopie Cushion. Suits her age, anyway (kid in grown-up suit...whose 'Daddy' had to 'abandon' her and now wants to make her daughter her Mummy). But, yeah, it sounds like she's degenerating to her true self in front of your eyes (think Wicked Witch of the West in Wiz Of Oz - albeit she's a Benign so is just Irritating Witch) and throw a bucket of Truth over her). I mean, she sounds SO rude and SO completely insensitive that, she should be a character in Disney's Alice In Wonderland. Seriously. Let's cut the crap: She sounds mad, actually. TOO unhinged from reality. Morbidly fascinating, though, isn't she.

OH-WUH!...PHILAMEENA!...I'VE FOUND THE SCOOBY CLUE!... ""Breaking News out of my daughter's trip to find matching placemats" updates while we're trying to enjoy a band." WHILE YOU'RE TRYING TO GIVE SOMETHING/SOMEONE(S) ELSE(S) YOUR ATTENTION. She's an attention-hog! (Narc giant symptom tick!) But she doesn't have anything to talk about (to the friends she still has left). I.e. she has no life (outside of getting validation from everyone on two legs). Except for daughter (or daughter's life - let's tell it like it is). In WHICH case - she is not oblivious. She engrosses herself on her phone because she knows you lot will be offended, AND.... Narcs - if they can't gain and hold POSITIVE attention, will settle for negative (and PROVOKE reactions!). Tick, tick, tickety-tick. Yep. Narc. (Mostly, people's problems stem from problem people(ish). Innit. And these days, they're bloody everywhere - OR being noticed everywhere (finally)!) Bloody knew it. Ugh. Your friend's a Narc. Ugh. ("Ere - don't fancy yours much!"). Hahaha. But, OH....sh*t. It's get your rubber gloves on time. Or your Shuffle-iest shoes. All of you. This weekend, I'll see if I can make time to provide you some links to where these behaviours are listed and explained as Narc habits/tactics. Just out of interest - did this not occur to you? Or did you say now't because you wanted an independent, second opinion? PS: What's her daughter like? (Also - is she Exasperated? Or encouraging it?)

I so enjoying reading your responses - thank you! Her daughter is actually a lovely gal, but here is the story. She was an only child, dad was in the military (and deployed several times throughout her life), so mom ("Moby Dick") never learned to say, "no". In spite of this, her daughter did well in college, met her husband, continued on to get master's degrees and has been steadily advancing her career. She now has 2 kids (the new baby just arrived). Since Moby Dick was widowed, she has not only clung on to her daughter but she has been "offended" at various times when her son-in-law wanted to do things with his wife that didn't include mom. She even used to tell me (before the kids arrived) that she felt like a "third wheel" (because SHE WAS a third wheel). That said, I do think her daughter encourages a lot of it, but not because she can't live without her mother - it's because she knows her mother will drop what she's doing on a moment's notice and run errands for her. Moby Dick has conditioned this behavior and as I noted, she complains about the very thing she continues to enable. This is classic Pavlov Dogs. This girl has spent her entire life with a mom who says things like, "Go get it and I'll pay for it" or "Call me if you need food and I'll pick something up." Moby Dick initiates this, so how can you blame the daughter for doing the very things she has been encouraged to do her entire life? Moby complains that her daughter spends too much money (which she does). A few months ago, her daughter wanted a very pricey new furniture set, so Moby told her to buy it, and she'd pay for half. Then she proceeded to complain to me that "she had been manipulated". I called her out on the spot. I said, "Those kids aren't manipulating you at all - you offered to pay." That shut her up. When she was fired, both she and her daughter were bad-mouthing and blaming the former boss. She convinced her daughter she was treated very poorly but what her daughter doesn't realize is, she was hired to do a job for pay that didn't involve talking/texting with her all day long, running errands on company time for her (such as getting her lunch because she couldn't get away from work) and cutting out early or starting late because her daughter had a kid issue. I love her daughter to death, but if she didn't have her mom to do that all stuff, she and her husband would have to deal with their own bosses. Only then would they LEARN how to manage their life themselves. Moby Dick will not allow them to fail or struggle, so they're not learning one of life's most important lessons. The only thing her daughter understands is, if I want it, I need to get it now. And Moby Dick has decided that if "my daughter needs me, I need to be there" while at the same time, citing that as "the reason" why she can't get her house cleaned out or travel ............ or go to shows she wants to see. Someone else is always to blame for why she can't do something. Her daughter is her crutch. Moby even brags about how "independent" her daughter is. All she ever talks about is her daughter, so the range of topics in her repertoire is so painfully limited that it hurts my head to listen to her. I'm not an arrogant person but I do crave variety in my conversations, and I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect someone who "claims" they want to go out to be present for that 3 to 4-hour period. While I don't believe her daughter is exasperated (because she has a personal assistant who will jump when she snaps), I do believe her husband is and I feel that if this continues to go on, it's going to adversely impact her marriage.

Heya! Sorry again for the delay (and the fact I've had to make this message a 'Round Robin', so short of time am I). Am aiming determinedly to log on this weekend. See you then!

Heya and Sorry again-AGAIN! First I was too busy and then I came down with sinus flu. Right... I'll go into detail after I've caught up with everyone here, but - Reading Sept 12th at 14:13, I have to slam on the brakes and say - STOOOOP! I'm not saying this mother/friend of yours isn't heavily narcissistic (the helpless yet self-serving type), but it equally might be reactive. Reading that post, it sounds very mu- no, TOO much to me like the Daughter is exploiting her mother horribly. SHE...is to blame for the fact her (scared, lonely, desperate, miserable) mother lost her job. Daughter is exploiting her mother's present state, instead of empathising and supporting her... Making her basically pay for 'friendship' and family inclusion. Saying that, I suppose the woman could be reaping what she sowed? Perhaps Daughter has unexpressed resentment since childhood, for having felt her mother always put her husband first and she herself, last, meaning, 'mother owes me' so she's making her sweat? Do me a favour and re-read that post of yours but this time bearing what I'm saying (based on what I could see going on in the background, as makes everything fit, rather than on the surface)? And then tell me if this time you can see it? The woman's too scared and frantic (under tacit threat of further abandonment, this time by daughter, "if she refuses to do (whatever, whenever)"). (Free Assistant, anyone?) Is it rudeness or is she just too scared not to jump to attention '24/7' whenever daughter (over-frequently!) clicks her fingers, to be polite or self-aware? (PS: Narcs always-always try to engage the target-victim when they're out in company - for this very reason, i.e. so THAT they lose their friends. (Google "Narcissist - Isolating the victim".) Because, of course, that'll enable the Victim-Slave to go from part-time lackeying to FULL-time, won't it. Or is it a cry for help (from under her gag)? Does she WANT you or you lot to 'explode' and confront her properly over it...so that she can finally confess all and (hopefully) see you all immediately offer to help and advise? You see, if she's in a state where she feels distinctly unsafe...precarious... which equals, already feeling too vulnerable, then, admitting this stuff and imploring friends to help is SUPREMELY difficult. (The woman's either weak or has become weakened....typical effect on the victim.) Irrespective of the players in this typical-sounding production - it's Exploitation that's going on here. It's too obvious. Oh, and whilst I'm at it: I don't see husband complaining, apart from a helpless whinge? ('Blah-blah-blah...that'll do'.) New Thoughts?

PS: You're not one iota unreasonable/being unreasonable (don't make me laff!). Your feelings and reactions about and over this (the miminal parts you're seeing and hearing about) are perfectly healthy-normal-functional-self-respecting-etc. :)

PPS: Seriously - I would (all/most of you) take her out and, having stated you're on Team (her name), confront her over it. If you were in your friend's shoes and responding IN FRONT OF friends-and-WITNESSES - you would expect them to eventually confront you over your behaviour and reasons for it, wouldn't you. I think the reason she's acting-out in front of you all is because on her conscious level she is seriously torn. The clue was in her *repeated* claim that it was her BOSS'S fault she was fired. She doesn't believe that herself (she'd have to be seriously retarded, think about it)...But half of her daren't admit it out-loud because she's got a gun held to her head (fail to lackey and I'll cut you off from your remaining family). And that gun would definitely be forced to go off if you guys put her straight over what's going on because, having been put straight, she would have to DEAL with the issue by confronting her daughter and laying boundaries - and thereby risking said ostracisation (which at this juncture, she cannot-cannot risk). The other half is 'gesticulating' wildly whilst at the same time verbally coming out with too-obvious NONSENSE. Her 'deeper-downs'...her inner animal, is the one making her do that. It wants your help. It is gagging to confront daughter ("YOU LOST US OUR JOB!"), but is being prevented by its (understandably) scaredy-cat host (on whom it relies when it comes to acts of safety and survival). Do you know much about heartlessly-exploitative Narcs (or over-resentful kids years later)?

Yeah, I would just start with something along the lines of: 'We're all very concerned that you seem to have somehow found yourself stuck-fast in a position where you're too-easily being taken serious advantage of...which already has cost you what on sooo many levels, was your very important job' - and then when she says, by whom? - you all say, 'Daughter'.' Tell her it's a common pitfall in her position, practically unavoidable....but 'get-out-able' or 'alleviate-able' to where it's more comfortably symbiotic between the pair of them. See that as your 'make or break' conversation. At least then, in years to come (e.g. when you hit her age), you won't look back with that incredibly itchy question: "What if I'd said something and intervened?'. Or worse - 'If only I had'. That's what I'd do. But you're not me so what you want to do is entirely your prerogative. If something can be saved then I save it. If not, I walk away. I just think you'll feel better for having walked away if you understand exactly WHY you had to. But whatever you do, automatically can't be wrong because - fact! - she IS a pebble in your shoe/shoes and you're in the right as well as entitled to take the offending article out...especially as pebbles in your shoe, if not dealt with, too-quickly start to feel AND DAMAGE like they're shards of glass....so, no wozzies, whichever. :)

ATTENTION READERS: Click this link to see previous, but wholly connected, thread (now closed), and thereby the fuller picture: https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showtopic/13958/how-do-you-deal-with-mobile-phone-addicts#jumptobottom ________________________________________________________________________________________________________

COPIED AND PASTED OVER FROM SAID PREVIOUS THREAD FOR PERTINENT REFERENCE: Post by Philameena: "The truth is, she's a kind person but the woman exists in a bubble and has no self-awareness. I've begun putting distance between us and making sure all future outings include a larger group of people. That way, the second I hear her daughter's name or see her texting, I can turn and talk to someone else. I've tried the subtle comments - made cracks about how "people on their phones" when they go out are rude and annoying. She agrees with me and then, BOOM - whips out her phone. Apparently in her mind, her phone use is different - she has to check in with her adult, married daughter every 10 minutes because she might be needed. And then she feels compelled to provide the rest of us an immediate daughter update. Not to mention, she repeats herself constantly and that has become another sticking point. She tells me about the same things over and over and over - sometimes within the same few hours. In the last week alone, she told me 4 times that she had to take her son-in-law somewhere. It took everything in my being not to say, "I heard you the first 17 times and I still don't care" but I just can't be that mean. What she doesn't realize is, no one cares - this isn't "BREAKING NEWS" or even conversation material. What does she want people to say? And she'll just ............. keep ................. repeating it. After repeatedly hearing the same stories about her daughter's contractions/labor, how she had to watch her grandchild while his mom was giving birth and giving the son-in-law ONE ride - over and over and over and over - I am now at the gym alone, and it's wonderful. Maybe one day she'll get her own identity and find some interests, but until then, I have more important things to focus on."

My observations: Contextual fact: After more than just a handful of years, you state confidently that he woman is Kind. Narcs are only kind when Love-Bombing or whenever you need buttering-up because you've had a 'fight' (created or contrived by them, usually) and they can tell they've gone too far. Were she heavily narcissistic normally or even full-blown personality-disordered by it, then, had she not proven consistently over time to be kind IN PRACTISE (rather than just the blah-blahs) - by now, you would definitely know it. Undoubtedly, you'd have long walked-away already. "made cracks about how "people on their phones" when they go out are rude and annoying. She agrees with me and then, BOOM - whips out her phone. " Fits with, (a normally kind person being) too scared NOT to jump to immediate attention, doesn't it. Cognitively, she KNOWS what you're 'saying' is right. But she just can't put it into practise. Daren't. (She's ended-up like one of Pavlov's dogs, look: bell rings - she jumps, *irrespective of ANYTHING OR ANYONE*.) There's a disconnect between her nodding head and her actions... "Not to mention, she repeats herself constantly and that has become another sticking point. She tells me about the same things over and over and over - sometimes within the same few hours. In the last week alone, she told me 4 times that she had to take her son-in-law somewhere. " Nothing else TO talk about (phase 2 - losing her her day-job - mission successful!). Also - constantly background distracted (trying to work-out if she or daughter is the unreasonable one). She's in her head, trying to solve a crime (to know where she stands or whether she's 'over-reacting', 'being selfish', whatever that the Narc uses to strong-arm their victim by triggering shame and guilt). Fits. (At the time, Narc's victims tend NOT to be too pretty, aye.) "It took everything in my being not to say, "I heard you the first 17 times and I still don't care" but I just can't be that mean." You're making-out that confrontation has to be mean. How's about, 'Don't you realise you've actually told me that about 17 times already?'. Hints won't work. Not strong enough, given what you're 'competing with' for attention. (Caring, Well-Meaning) Peer Pressure will. PS: Did she actually use the words 'had to'? Because that would reveal it all, wouldn't it. (PS: Clearly he *doesn't* feel violated/crowded-out/bothered by her constant presence, Big Fat Eh...cos apparently...evidently...he wants more of it!)) "What does she want people to say? And she'll just ............. keep ................. repeating it" Yuh. Until you DO say something. (Nag-nag-nag-nag-nag.) She (well, her inner animal) wants you to say, 'Right, you, missy...What's going on? You're acting like a crazy woman recently (etc.)'. *You're a hinter* - *Your friend is a hinter*. (Gosh, how unusual, haha.) "I am now at the gym alone, and it's wonderful. " That's good, that's sensible. HAVE A BREAK (have a KitKat, haha). De-compress and re-charge (- mobile phones are based on us). And THEN decide what you do or don't want to do about it. Still would like your updated thoughts tho.

On a spiritual level, I defo think Fate has provided you with an event-based opportunity in order to highlight to you, once-and-for-all, that your adult toolbelt is missing a vital tool. The one called, How To Be Smooth At Having Difficult Confrontations ...or How To Save A Situation by Speaking Your Mind. Or, How To Be A Rescuer. Or all three combined. I mean, you ARE if you think about it, demonstrating that this fact is true, yes? (You and virtually every empath!) BUT...Imagine if she was your boss (in the future) and you COULDN'T walk away because, say, other jobs were at that time too scarce and already you were in significant debt? Or some other 'problematic person' in whatever crucial role, whom had you similarly (psychologically-speaking), LITERALLY, bent backwards over a barrel, and the only thing that could save you or damage-limit the grave situation was, you taking a confident, 'Now look here, you - that's inappropriate!' attitude with them? Trouble is, being good at confronting nicely takes PRACTISE. But if you can't bring yourself to outright put your foot down - you're hardly going to start giving it a go, are you....as opposed to running and hiding in the gym, haha (kick me later). AS you could bring yourself to lose her - she is the perfect test-drive dummy. If it does go pants-up - who cares?! And at least you tried (and for both your sakes). In other words: she whom isn't confident at riding a bike has been loaned a couple of trainer wheels, to (groan) bring her up to speed. Free-of-Charge. Somebody up there likes you and doesn't want you to re-encounter (or keep encountering?) this type of sense of powerlessness and defencelessness in the near-future. In short: this is a Golden Opportunity. Plus, it'll vibe great on your psyche CV! :) Might even prevent people from GOING there to begin with, with you! (Undoubtedly.) How much would that cost in self-assertiveness training classes?.... Slap her face with a wet fish, go on! :D