The awakening I never expected

I’m a 40-year-old woman, married, with a ten-year-old son. Two years ago, I was a stay-at-home mom, trapped in a quiet fog of self-doubt. I questioned my identity, my worth, and the direction of my life. It felt as if I had slowly faded into the background — invisible even to myself. One day, desperate for answers, I started a thread on peoplesproblems.org asking, “What’s the true purpose of life?” Among the responses, one line changed everything: “Perhaps your brain needs more stimulation — engage it in higher-level activities.” Something clicked. I realized I wasn’t broken; I was simply under-challenged. That realization pushed me to apply for jobs again. Within months, I landed one that reignited my confidence and gave me a sense of purpose. I was trusted, respected, and soon became a key voice in the company. For the first time in years, I felt proud of myself, like I had finally found my ikigai. Then, in December 2024, everything shifted. I interviewed a candidate- let’s call him X, a 25-year-old with a brilliant mind and humility rare for his age. His energy was infectious. I recommended him enthusiastically, and soon, everyone loved him. But as he began to outshine others, the office politics erupted. I supported him through it all, trusting my instincts. Together, we created a calm space amid the chaos. That bond slowly grew into something deeper. He was thoughtful, emotionally intelligent, and genuinely curious about me. The qualities I hadn’t experienced in a long time. One evening, after a difficult meeting, he took me for a walk and reassured me that I was capable of more than I believed. Later, we went for coffee, and hours slipped away as we talked about everything— work, technology, life, even love. Despite the fifteen-year age gap, the connection felt effortless, electric, and almost fated. Somewhere in that haze, I admitted I had a crush on him. To my surprise, the feeling was mutual. It was thrilling and terrifying at once. What followed was an emotional whirlwind; stolen glances, messages, walks, laughter. We never crossed the final line, but we blurred every other. He filled the emotional and physical emptiness that had lingered in my marriage for years. I felt seen, desired, alive. Then reality struck. My husband had known everything- every chat, every location, every meeting through our shared accounts and Google timeline. He confronted me in anger, took me to the same cafe where X and I had sat, and demanded explanations. In desperation, I told him to read my journal, thinking it might help him understand. It only made things worse. He discovered the truth I had hidden even from myself, that I had long felt disconnected, unheard, and emotionally starved. To him, everything had always seemed fine. He was doing everything “right”, being a good husband, father, son. But I didn’t need perfection; I needed presence. When I needed his warmth, he was lost in work. When I needed conversation, he was buried in screens. My loneliness had grown roots long before X appeared. Eventually, my husband and X spoke privately. They decided without asking me that X should end all contact with me. Losing him felt like losing a piece of my soul. He had become my one source of emotional light, my mirror, my reminder that I could still feel something raw and beautiful. Now, our company has shifted to permanent remote work. Encounters with X are rare and painfully formal. He avoids me, and though I understand why, it still hurts. Sometimes, I see the same warmth flicker in his eyes, quickly smothered by guilt. I still carry his version in my heart, the one who laughed with me, who made me feel weightless and alive. Recently, I heard that his ex the same woman I unknowingly rejected in an interview long ago might be joining our company. It feels like life’s mocking me for my naivety. I feel foolish, used, and heartbroken. Now, I’m left with questions that haunt me: Why can’t I be my genuine self without hurting others? Why does my heart crave connection outside my marriage? How do I gather the broken pieces of myself and feel whole again? And most painfully how do I silence my heart when it refuses to listen to reason?

Hi Blue_Sky, I think most people have an ideal partner in mind, one that challenges them and keeps the relationship fresh and pushes the other to be more invested. In practice, it seems to me that it's really hard to find that ideal person. You find your dream partner? They aren't interested, or like someone who is the opposite of you. You date an attractive younger person? They are too immature and start to think you're too stubborn. You get someone out of your league? Yikes! Good luck surviving the judgmental comments and keeping away the competition. From my experience, we all always settle a little bit because our imagination can create this ultimate ideal partner without any flaws who loves us more than anyone who's ever existed. And we can be in denial, or even not realize for the longest time that the person we're with isn't what we want. What we want can even change. Sometimes, we just want to sleep with someone but don't actually want to build anything special with them. Sometimes we enter a relationship and it starts off good, but over the years it goes downhill - and that's okay, too, because mostly relationships last as long as they last. And they take work to try and maintain. I'll include this little video by Mark Manson about love, that I think has some relevance here: https://youtu.be/nxQYKNqZB70?si=asnIopeILmh_saCK This doesn't really answer any of the 4 questions you posed at the end, and if I had more time I might try my best to answer them. But hopefully my words and that video will help get you thinking about things. I do think it's good you've pinpointed that something you feel you're missing in your life is attention and respect.

Thank you Balance for the reply. I’ll definitely go through the video link. Actually, when I had posted this thread, I received an error, so I re-posted this with subtle differences , if that matters at all. https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showtopic/13975/an-awakening-i-never-expected To be honest, I’ve been struggling with conflict inside me for a long time. It affects my confidence in general and I’m scared to see my true feelings. On the other hand, I see I cannot live fulfilling life if I don’t channel these feelings. Questioning everything that you believe in leads to chaos and confusion and it sometimes leads to meltdowns. I don’t know how to regain the control.

Hi again Blue_Sky, So before I continue, I had a question about this part from the duplicate thread: "Recently, I heard that his ex (or current or future) the same woman I unknowingly rejected in an interview long ago, might be joining our company." - I wasn't sure what you meant by "or current, or future". At first I took it at face value to just mean she is his ex, but now I'm curious whether "current" suggests he is with her now, or if "future" suggests it's someone who he's interested in and may eventually start dating. ...Or if you mean, they did date and are exes, but may be dating again, or could potentially start dating again? I'm just trying to understand that part better. Anyway, I want to break down your last paragraph here and try to respond to each part separately. I feel that might help here. "To be honest, I’ve been struggling with conflict inside me for a long time. It affects my confidence in general and I’m scared to see my true feelings." - What have you been struggling with and been conflicted about, exactly? Does this have to do with "finding (your) purpose?" Or is it more about feeling not seen? Or something else, entirely? Is it about your relationship? And, along with that, why are you scared to see your true feelings? What are you afraid to find/afraid to might have to admit? "On the other hand, I see I cannot live fulfilling life if I don’t channel these feelings." - By that you mean, the striving to push yourself and pursue this career? ...Or is this more about exploring new relationships with people who clearly value you? I would say, if you really like your job and want to stay doing what you're doing, then you will need to be able to put up a better barrier between your personal and professional life. Your situation could threaten your job, since you hired this person and are his supervisor, and maybe you are just lucky and fortunate now that everything went remote. Lesson learned, best not to repeat that again. The remote work could also greatly soften the blow if the lad's ex/current/future? does wind up getting hired on. At least you may have dodged a bullet there. If you really like your marriage and want to keep that working, then I guess you'll have to try communicating with your husband and explain what's missing from your relationship. It sounds like you would like more of his attention. Is that the only thing missing? Your situation could have threatened your relationship, also, but it sounds like things are still intact there, right? At the end of the day, all you can really do is be yourself. I think at a certain point, things just won't work out if there isn't enough compatibility. But you owe it to your relationship to try and work through the issues. Relationships are a collaboration, and take work by each party involved. "Questioning everything that you believe in leads to chaos and confusion and it sometimes leads to meltdowns." - Questioning everything is good. You shouldn't just blindly stick to the status quo because that's what you're told, and that's what everyone else does. You have to be in the right mindset for it, though, where you can answer self-imposed questions with confidence. It can be frustrating, though. Sometimes you realize certain things are very difficult to change, or are outside of your control. Sometimes you can make a change... But should you? Is it the right move? There's lots to consider, and you should put enough thought into it. "I don’t know how to regain the control." - You mean, since all of this happened? Well, it is definitely not the worst crash-and-burn I've ever seen or heard of. I actually think people go through this sort of thing much more frequently than is common knowledge, tbh. Like I said up above, you be more professional with work, and you communicate with your partner to see if you can fix things in your relationship. Only you can really say for sure if you're happy, though. I will point out that you felt like you needed more from life, so you went and got this job. ...And for a little while that satiated you. ...Until it didn't. Then you unlocked brand new feelings with this younger employee. Are you happy with what you have, if you can salvage it? Or are you still on that eternal quest in search of yourself? I'll attempt to answer you original 4 questions now, from the initial entry: "1. Why can’t I be my genuine self without hurting others?" - It is a conundrum, isn't it? Stay quiet and pretend everything is fine, your husband thinks all is well but you ache. Follow newfound feelings of affection and your husband takes the brunt of the damage. I don't know if I can give you the best advice for this one. The truth is, I don't believe in "soulmates" (Not talking about user 'Soulmate'! XD ) or "one true loves." And I think we have the potential to be compatible with lots of different people in this life. But my experiences have also shown me that it's very, very difficult to find somebody new. That's especially true when you're already with someone, in a monogamous relationship. All I can say is, you should be able to be yourself, and be accepted for who you are. "2. Why does my heart crave connection outside my marriage?" - One person isn't meant to be our "everything." Relying on one person for all conversation and friendship and interaction can become exhausting. My one friend made a good point about this years ago. He has a lot more friends than me, and I asked him if it's difficult keeping track of so many pals. He said that tending to your friendships usually occurs in a cycle, so you hang out with each person until you've exchanged all of your latest news, and then spend time apart and come back and catch up all over again, after more things happen in your life worth discussing. That time apart can be crucial. You need some personal space, at least. My girlfriend is someone who, I think, sometimes expects me to be her "everything." I can't do that. I can't go to one person with all of my questions, all of my thoughts, and for all of my advice. I like being able to speak with different people like this. I don't know about you, but I also need a lot of alone time. I get drained by being around other people and having to break my inner concentration. So connection with the self is also pretty important. But Idk. Maybe I'm kind of a jerk, or maybe I am on my own eternal search for something or someone. I sometimes wish for love, intimacy and romance outside of my relationship. But it's not something I've acted on, and I don't think it's something I would. I guess if it ever reached that point, I would break up with my partner before beginning new pursuits. Best to finish one book before starting another. "3. How do I gather the broken pieces of myself and feel whole again?" - Some people need religion to feel a purpose. Some need structure. Some need some level of "normalcy" in their life to make sense of things. I've had a coworker talk about people who don't have kids not being "fruitful." This same person is also kind of an idiot, though. I guess to me, we find our own purpose. Life is what we make it. We have free will. "4. And most painfully how do I silence my heart when it refuses to listen to reason?" You just have to be ethical, and considerate of others. If what your heart wants is going to destroy your marriage and your job, then it's probably not good. Unless you're willing to give all of that stuff up the right way, in order to pursue that other thing. There might be attractive women who aren't quite 18 yet? They don't exist to me. My eyes don't look at them, I don't interact with them, and I know that's a line I'm not gonna cross, lol. You have to get into the habit of reminding yourself that you are married and have a family, and you need to consider them whenever you make choices. Okay, well I hope this has all been helpful in some way. ...This took a while.

Hi Balance, First of all, thank you so much for replying in such detail. I genuinely appreciate it. I read everything you wrote, and yes — your last paragraph was exactly what I needed to hear. Trust me, I was once the strongest advocate of “doing the right thing” at my workplace — known (and sometimes infamous) for my strict ethics. Even now, I’m still one of the most trusted people by top management when it comes to integrity and work ethics. I was at the top of my game before all of this (X) happened. But these recent events… they broke something in me. My confidence cracked, and I started questioning everything I do. I became more humble, cautious, even fearful — especially at work. I understand your confusion when I mentioned his ex, current, and future. Let me explain. When X and I first started chatting, he referred to his ex as just that — his ex — but he also said they were still in a friends-with-benefits kind of situation. They were still talking. Now, that same ex is joining our company. And believe me, I had nothing to do with her recent interview. I’ve already moved out of that team. A while ago, when X had just joined, he had referred to her as a friend, and I happened to take her interview back then — which I rejected solely based on her performance. Last week, while we were in office, X mentioned that same name again. I casually asked if it was the same person, saying her name aloud. The look on his face said everything. Later, I did my own bit of research and confirmed it — it was indeed her. I’d only seen her photo, but that was enough. Yesterday, X messaged me saying he wanted to catch up. I teared up the moment I saw his message — yes, it still has the same effect on me. But I replied politely, “I’ve figured something out. It’s best if we don’t catch up anymore.” He responded almost immediately: “No worries. I just wanted to inform you, but looks like you already know.” So that’s it — he got his girlfriend a job in his office. I didn’t want to know who she really was for the longest time, but now I do. And honestly, the thought of standing in front of both of them at work makes me feel sick. I’ve been avoiding going to the office because I can’t bear to be in the same room with them. How do you change your feelings for someone? I’m not there yet. I’ve tried — really tried — and failed. That’s why I’m here. (And yes, the feminist in me wants to scream and ask — why is it always the guy who gets to decide when to move forward and when to pull back? But I’ll keep that aside for now.) ———————— Now some words of wisdom from my own experience- The video was quite insightful. I completely agree that love alone isn’t enough to sustain a relationship. Trust me — I’ve been married for 15 years. It takes so much more than that: understanding, acceptance, courage, passion, grit, gratitude, sacrifice, kindness, and all those other “goody-goody” virtues to truly make it work. You usually learn these things on the job, so to speak. I completely agree with that point. My take, however, is that while love may not be enough, it is essential. On top of that, you experience love from your partner in different forms — care, protection, intimacy, respect, and so on. These are often expressed through various “love languages”: words of affirmation, acts of service, receiving gifts, quality time, physical touch, etc. In my case, it took both of us quite some time to realise that our individual love languages don’t really intersect. Our expectations don’t align, and whatever one of us offers often goes unnoticed or is met with a lukewarm response. We’ve talked about it and even tried to learn each other’s languages, but over time, we tend to forget and slip back into familiar patterns — with very little lasting change. Now, when your partner doesn’t understand your love language but someone else does — someone who notices it instantly and reciprocates — it resonates deeply. It boosts your confidence and draws you in. I’m not trying to justify anything here; I’m simply being honest. I’ve become so vulnerable from that deprivation that, without realising it, I sometimes expose myself emotionally just to experience that missing connection. Anyway, I know I have to lock my heart away (yes, I know it’s foolish and stubborn — always attracted to what it lacks while ignoring what’s abundant). But why does continuing feel like pretending to be someone else? The more I suppress or repress what my heart longs for, the stronger it rebels the next time an opportunity arises. Now, I fear what reckless thing I might do next. Yes, life is good. But I truly believe that in the end, I won’t remember how well I managed money, how well I behaved with people, or how much I improved myself. What I will remember are moments — when someone hugged me mid-conversation and whispered, “Thanks for this,” or held me tightly after a long time apart and said, “I missed you.” Or when someone kissed my cheek as I poured my heart out. I don’t know how genuine those gestures were, but they touched me deeply. I know I might be focusing on all the wrong things — yet somehow, they feel like the most right. Maybe I’ve been bitten by the love bug, or maybe not. But all those desires remain unfulfilled, and I keep circling back to them — often without even realising it. I want to break this cycle. I want peace — the kind that doesn’t come from suppression or repression.

Hi again, Blue_Sky. I don't have a ton of time, but I read through your newest post and off the top of my head I can respond to a few points: "But these recent events… they broke something in me. My confidence cracked, and I started questioning everything I do. I became more humble, cautious, even fearful — especially at work." - I would say the last few years have really done that to me, too. For other reasons, of course. It's tough sticking to your own personal code of ethics, but also getting the job done to your supervisors' liking and not ruffling feathers. All of this constant internal debate about where to draw those lines. All of this walking on eggshells, and never knowing what other people are going to react like. "why is it always the guy who gets to decide when to move forward and when to pull back?" - I would say the same reason why women seldom took initiative in asking me out - society has set this expectation that men are the ones who take the lead. "In my case, it took both of us quite some time to realise that our individual love languages don’t really intersect. Our expectations don’t align, and whatever one of us offers often goes unnoticed or is met with a lukewarm response. We’ve talked about it and even tried to learn each other’s languages, but over time, we tend to forget and slip back into familiar patterns — with very little lasting change." - I think with some things in life, we have a pretty good idea of our stance on something. But with many other things, you have to learn through experience. Sometimes I have to cringe at these couples who hold out on sex until they get married. On the surface it's a noble concept, but it's kind of stupid. Wait through dating, through engagement, through major expenses, and THEN discover you're sexually incompatible... D'oh! But a part of life is learning, so I guess you can only reach the conclusion you're incompatible with someone by being with them for a good while.

Hi Balance, I hope you have a lot to say about my last post than your short reply. “I would say the same reason why women seldom took initiative in asking me out - society has set this expectation that men are the ones who take the lead.” —- I would blame this to patriarchy and evolution. How many men truly appreciate if a woman takes initiative? Forget that, how many men do not consider it as a threat or insult if a woman for once correct them in front of everyone or even in private? In my society, as a woman being bold and courageous is not considered as a desirable characteristic. It looks good on paper or when shown in movies, so much so that men get impressed. In reality, they do get repelled and would try everything to remove her from their way just because she is outshining them. Someone has said, only if brilliant women had the confidence of a mediocre men. I know I’m generalising here but I can confidently say more than 60% women would agree with me. Take my example, when my husband found out that I’m emotionally cheating on him, he did not come to me first to ask about the situation. He waited and then talked to my mom first and then confronted me like I’m his child assuming many things. But for once, he did not ask me why did I do it to truly understand me. He was fully occupied to save his ego, he didn’t even care what I was thinking then. When marriage comes in picture, everything we do as a couple, even though if it’s pretending it’s considered ‘right’. Because you as a couple are part of something bigger than you — like marriage institution, society, your children. You are expected to ‘behave’. See, it’s easy when you have to choose between right and wrong, especially when those are eternal truths. But it’s much harder to choose between two right or two wrong paths. Weighing pros and cons may result in tie and then you go with your gut or your heart. That aside, at some point in this (X) journey I just imagined in my head, why can’t I have best of both the worlds? But again that’s a selfish thought. I see why you mention religion in your reply, perhaps meditation, so that I can gain control over my reckless thoughts. More on this later.

Bumping your thread up for better exposure. I actually didn't see you had responded on the 30th until just now. I just read your post, but don't have time to think about and respond to it right now. I also can't really look over the previous post again right now. My apologies. I'll try to get back to you again sometime this week. Maybe some of the other users will be able to respond here in the meantime. I hope all is holding up in the meantime, Blue_Sky.

Hey Blue_Sky, I wanted to reply to this earlier, but I didn’t get around to it until now. So I’ll go through everything you’ve shared so far, including what you wrote in response to Balance. I won’t go over his conclusions and tips again, but I’ll focus on your words to offer you an additional perspective on everything. :) “Something clicked. I realized I wasn’t broken; I was simply under-challenged. That realization pushed me to apply for jobs again. Within months, I landed one that reignited my confidence and gave me a sense of purpose. I was trusted, respected, and soon became a key voice in the company. For the first time in years, I felt proud of myself, like I had finally found my ikigai.” That’s genuinely impressive! You actually did that, you have every right to be proud of yourself! “That bond slowly grew into something deeper. He was thoughtful, emotionally intelligent, and genuinely curious about me. The qualities I hadn’t experienced in a long time. One evening, after a difficult meeting, he took me for a walk and reassured me that I was capable of more than I believed. Later, we went for coffee, and hours slipped away as we talked about everything— work, technology, life, even love. Despite the fifteen-year age gap, the connection felt effortless, electric, and almost fated. Then reality struck. My husband had known everything—every chat, every location, every meeting through our shared accounts and Google timeline. He confronted me in anger, took me to the same cafe where X and I had sat, and demanded explanations. In desperation, I told him to read my journal, thinking it might help him understand. It only made things worse. He discovered the truth I had hidden even from myself, that I had long felt disconnected, unheard, and emotionally starved.” Okay, so you didn’t realize it until that very moment. I can relate, it’s an awful feeling, especially when everything is already broken by the time you finally see it clearly. But what exactly do you think you broke? Was it overall a good marriage before this happened? From my point of view everything I’ve read so far sounds like someone searching for a kind of connection that needs to exist in a marriage for it to truly work which contains respect, interest, and care. I assume you are speaking of years of lack of that emotional support and connection, right? So the fact that you built that connection with X is only logical and deeply human. Still not a good move, of course, and you already know that. Maybe that’s a conversation you should have had with your husband earlier…or did you try? Sometimes even if it's not that clear to yourself what exactly you need you might have sensed that something needs improvement and talked with him about that? And how did things go afterward? You said he didn’t understand you, so is everything now more or less back to the way it was, just swept under the rug? “To him, everything had always seemed fine. He was doing everything “right”, being a good husband, father, son. But I didn’t need perfection; I needed presence. When I needed his warmth, he was lost in work. When I needed conversation, he was buried in screens. My loneliness had grown roots long before X appeared.” I see…Do you have any friends or family you can talk to, people who give you emotional support? “Why can’t I be my genuine self without hurting others?” You can. But sometimes you have to hurt others in order to find or protect yourself. “Why does my heart crave connection outside my marriage?” Because the person you’re with isn’t giving you what your heart needs. So you’ll have to find ways to get what you need, could be a new partner, new friendships, or more self-love or improvement of your marriage/relationship. “How do I gather the broken pieces of myself and feel whole again?” I think you might already know the answer to this by now. I’ll keep reading and come back to it. “And most painfully how do I silence my heart when it refuses to listen to reason?” The real question is do you really have to silence your heart when it comes to your emotional needs being fulfilled? And by that I don’t mean you should wreck your marriage and run away with X , that would be madness. But give your feelings space, and most importantly, try to make your partner understand what you need… assuming you want to work on your marriage, and that your husband does too. “To be honest, I’ve been struggling with conflict inside me for a long time. It affects my confidence in general and I’m scared to see my true feelings. On the other hand, I see I cannot live fulfilling life if I don’t channel these feelings. Questioning everything that you believe in leads to chaos and confusion and it sometimes leads to meltdowns. I don’t know how to regain the control.” Oh, I feel that one. Why are you scared of feeling your true feelings? What would happen if you allowed them? “Even now, I’m still one of the most trusted people by top management when it comes to integrity and work ethics. I was at the top of my game before all of this (X) happened.” Good, you still have your job. That’s Good! “But these recent events… they broke something in me. My confidence cracked, and I started questioning everything I do. I became more humble, cautious, even fearful — especially at work.” That’s understandable. If you start allowing yourself to feel your emotions and learn how to deal with them, to find ways to satisfy this emptiness, you’ll automatically start rebuilding your confidence. “So that’s it — he got his girlfriend a job in his office. I didn’t want to know who she really was for the longest time, but now I do. And honestly, the thought of standing in front of both of them at work makes me feel sick. I’ve been avoiding going to the office because I can’t bear to be in the same room with them.” Oh man… that’s rough. So he’s back together with his ex now? Or does she “just” work there? I can totally relate; I’ve been in a somewhat similar situation, it’s beyond uncomfortable. Try to avoid him as much as you can. Every bit of contact just reopens the wound and keeps you from moving forward. “How do you change your feelings for someone? I’m not there yet. I’ve tried — really tried — and failed. That’s why I’m here.” From my own experience, you can’t, not really. I couldn’t, at least. I eventually accepted that I’ll always have feelings for this person, but I also knew that doesn’t mean I can’t feel the same way for someone else, if that makes sense. I think it depends on whether it’s truly love or more of an infatuation that felt like love, or something “bigger,” because he gave you something you’d been missing for years. “(And yes, the feminist in me wants to scream and ask — why is it always the guy who gets to decide when to move forward and when to pull back? But I’ll keep that aside for now.)” That part also makes it sound like you don’t really want to work on your marriage anymore, does it? “In my case, it took both of us quite some time to realise that our individual love languages don’t really intersect. Our expectations don’t align, and whatever one of us offers often goes unnoticed or is met with a lukewarm response. We’ve talked about it and even tried to learn each other’s languages, but over time, we tend to forget and slip back into familiar patterns — with very little lasting change.” Okay, so you’ve already tried to work on it in parts. What do you think causes that to happen again and again? Is it really just “forgetting,” or do you feel like you and your husband are putting in the same, or enough, energy to truly change something? “Now, when your partner doesn’t understand your love language but someone else does — someone who notices it instantly and reciprocates — it resonates deeply. It boosts your confidence and draws you in. I’m not trying to justify anything here; I’m simply being honest. I’ve become so vulnerable from that deprivation that, without realising it, I sometimes expose myself emotionally just to experience that missing connection.” Yep, beautifully said and that’s exactly what I meant earlier. It’s completely understandable. “Anyway, I know I have to lock my heart away (yes, I know it’s foolish and stubborn — always attracted to what it lacks while ignoring what’s abundant). But why does continuing feel like pretending to be someone else? The more I suppress or repress what my heart longs for, the stronger it rebels the next time an opportunity arises. Now, I fear what reckless thing I might do next.” It feels that way because when you deny yourself to the point that a part of your emotional self begins to die, the heart will eventually rebel. And that’s not a moral failure, it’s a human response to deprivation.You already said it yourself: the longer you suppress it, the stronger it’ll grow, and you’ll reach for it the moment the opportunity arises. “Yes, life is good. But I truly believe that in the end, I won’t remember how well I managed money, how well I behaved with people, or how much I improved myself. What I will remember are moments — when someone hugged me mid-conversation and whispered, “Thanks for this,” or held me tightly after a long time apart and said, “I missed you.” Or when someone kissed my cheek as I poured my heart out. I don’t know how genuine those gestures were, but they touched me deeply.” Yes, and that should already be your answer, whether you really should close off your heart and hide that part of yourself. Can I ask you something a bit more personal? Do you still love your husband, not out of duty or habit, but truly love him? Like… do you think of him first thing in the morning, or does he ever cross your mind in a quiet, tender way during the day? Do you still smile when you see him at night, or feel warmth when you catch a glimpse of him doing something ordinary, something that reminds you why you chose him once? Because love, the real kind, isn’t always loud or romantic. Sometimes it’s just a quiet peace, a sense that, even when things are hard or you’re hurt, you’d still rather face it with them than without them. I’m curious whether that feeling still lives somewhere in you when it comes to him. “I know I might be focusing on all the wrong things — yet somehow, they feel like the most right.” No, I don’t think you’re focusing on the wrong things at all. “Maybe I’ve been bitten by the love bug, or maybe not. But all those desires remain unfulfilled, and I keep circling back to them — often without even realising it.” Very well reflected. I think you have to get clear about the love thing and about this “maintenance marriage” situation. So most importantly, have a serious talk with your husband. “— I would blame this to patriarchy and evolution. How many men truly appreciate if a woman takes initiative? Forget that, how many men do not consider it as a threat or insult if a woman for once correct them in front of everyone or even in private? In my society, as a woman being bold and courageous is not considered as a desirable characteristic. It looks good on paper or when shown in movies, so much so that men get impressed. In reality, they do get repelled and would try everything to remove her from their way just because she is outshining them. Someone has said, only if brilliant women had the confidence of a mediocre men. I know I’m generalising here but I can confidently say more than 60% women would agree with me.” Count me in, I’m part of that 60%. And I’m sorry that you still have to experience something that outdated. Sounds like you’re surrounded by rather conservative circles? Is that partly about your husband, too? “Take my example, when my husband found out that I’m emotionally cheating on him, he did not come to me first to ask about the situation. He waited and then talked to my mom first and then confronted me like I’m his child assuming many things.” Wait… He did what?? Okay, I mean, sure….hurt ego, broken trust and all that, but what? So, if I understand this correctly, he confronted you in a café you used to go to with X, but only after he talked to your mother about it and let some time pass? What on earth did he expect her to say? Did he hope she’d handle it for him? Or is he in a closer relationship to her and often speaks about things with her? What exactly did he accuse you of when he finally talked to you? “But for once, he did not ask me why did I do it to truly understand me. He was fully occupied to save his ego, he didn’t even care what I was thinking then.” I do understand that he’s hurt, but it also sounds like there was enough time in between for him to calm down and approach you like an adult. So yeah, his ego must’ve been seriously wounded. Do you know what your mother said to him? And the more important question, did he ever try to talk to you again afterward? Or did you? Because it can’t just stay like that, pretending everything’s somehow “normal” now?! “When marriage comes in picture, everything we do as a couple, even though if it’s pretending it’s considered ‘right’. Because you as a couple are part of something bigger than you — like marriage institution, society, your children. You are expected to ‘behave’.” Yes, when you put that in the context of patriarchal structures in society, you’re absolutely right, but we both know that’s complete nonsense. “See, it’s easy when you have to choose between right and wrong, especially when those are eternal truths. But it’s much harder to choose between two right or two wrong paths. Weighing pros and cons may result in tie and then you go with your gut or your heart.” So what is it for you now, heart or gut feeling? “That aside, at some point in this (X) journey I just imagined in my head, why can’t I have best of both the worlds? But again that’s a selfish thought.” Is it really a selfish thought? What makes you believe that wanting both understanding and fulfillment is wrong? Do you think an honest conversation with your husband could still bring something positive, or has that door already closed for you? “How do I gather the broken pieces of myself and feel whole again?” Did you find an answer for that question? Whatever you decide, I just hope you’ll do it from a place of honesty with yourself, not fear or guilt. You deserve clarity, even if it’s painful to reach it.

Eyup, Blue! Remember I told you that, no matter what you think you think - your feet speak the truth and get the final vote?...and if you disagree with them, you get carried off anyway, regardless (i.e. instinct wins over conscious rationale). Conscious You went out and got a job (well done!)...And your feet (your inner animal) agreed (obvs), so they let you....But then they took you further - down a side-alley, called Love, Affection, Companionship, Understanding, Sex (and a huge spate of Dopamine (and other chems) addiction, known as, Cloud 9). And then you come back here and - out it comes! Husband is neglectful and has been for too long. (Women cheat for different reasons than Over-Entitlement, etc., you see.) If you've been drip-drip starved, of COURSE when someone who wants to take advantage of your vulnerability (unfed fundamental, vital needs) presents you with a banquet you're going to dive onto it and gorge yourself silly. That's what starving humans do! They shouldn't, though. Like the Nazi concentration-camp prisoners on release, gorging (or even eating too-rich food) after long-term fasting/starvation causes all sorts of physical problems and can even be fatal. You have have to start with a mouthful at a time, increasing gently, steadily from there until you're back to 3 square meals a day. You gorged, lost all sense of yourself, and now you're suffering for it. DIFFERENT if husband had been performing like a husband all that time. THEN it would make you a cheating beeptard. Do you appreciate that difference? You're not a greedy (cheating) beeptard if you're literally forced (starved half-to-death) into it for the sake of your mental (eventually into physical) survival. Working with what sort of children in what capacity, btw? Notwithstanding - not challenging enough. You said yourself you were top of class and expected to do great things. It wasn't feeding you enough. Hence when matey came round the corner with his seemingly resplendant buffet table (bet it was false or maggot ridden really - you were early days so you won't have seen his true colours but his actions speak for him and his lesser age is immaterial because he's still old enough to know not to interfere with a married woman, ESPECIALLY not one that palpably vulnerable!)....but - when he did? Pff!...you would have been powerless to resist OR to care about his dodgy moral compass (- "Yeah-yeah - E-Numbers - don't care - food's food! (nom-nom-nom)". Now the ZUMBA class-running? That'd not only be a real feast, but a healthy, LASTINGLY nutritious one that steadily got you back to ACTUAL health, not just calorie-laden. What happened to that idea??

...You were hoping lover would be your 'taxi' out of there, weren't you. Because there are still things you like about your husband and family house/life that you wouldn't want to lose, given the choice, making the decision too difficult on your own without a suitably huge incentive. (Enter Romeo with the lack of morals and conscience - see below.) Common stuff. And very understandable, and forgiveable... Husband taking what, at-most, was JOINT marital business - but, actually, YOURS to run and control if you wanted - into his own hands- ...let me make that more succinct: Husband, without your knowledge, sneakily behind your back (humour me), GRABBING the steering-wheel to YOUR car.... well!... you know what he did. That kinda says it all about what HE'S like. Domineering and Controlling. Thinks his stuff is his stuff AND your stuff is his stuff. Anyone would think he was your Dad, storming round to confront your illicit, romantic-sexual boyfriend (cos you were only 15 and he's 18), without needing to tell you, LET ALONE consult you. DOOOO EFFING *WHAT*?!?! Seriously - WHAT?!?! I wouldn't have DARED do that - would you? Who died and made HIM the over-entitled Boss of you????? WHEN? Was it, by any chance, once you'd had kids? The ONLY right he had as your husband(ish) was to insist YOU put a stop to it - and trust that you had (monitoring the behavioural evidence) - or insist you tell him together, or insist on couples counselling, or ask for a divorce - ber-bom, not that humungous liberty-taking to point of Dealbreaker equal to your own. Or worse if we consider, he didn't just start behaving that Dominator-Controller-like overnight. The DEGREE of it - quite possibly. But not the existence of it. So I've GOT his number. Me, I'd have said - 'THANKS for that huge vindication, that highlighting for me, of WHY I was so desperate for the attentions of this ((seemingly)) genuinely big-hearted colleague when it's not normally in my nature to cheat...proving that you think you OWN me, ergo have for too long felt you no longer have to put effort in to keep me happy in this relationship!'. Or even - 'Well, Daddy Dearest...Since our union is obviously incestuous, thereby illegal - I'm off, byeee!'. I mean - cry over spilt MILK, sure. But NOT spilt watery white paint that does a poor impression. You have GOT to face reality in order to locate the correct hole to (healthily) fill. Your husband sounds narcissistic and your ex-lover sounds worse but presents as "nothing LIKE husband!". Just a different style, actually. Husband (confronting loverboy) sounds Overt whereas ex-lover sounds sneakier. A Covert-Vulnerable. You act like time is running out for you (when 40 really is the new 30 fyi) and that you need (needed?) to experience heady self-accceptance/celebration at least, in order to get to PROPERLY 'use it before you lose it'. Common fear, but irrational. As you start getting wrinkly and saggy-bummed, SO WILL YOUR MALE COUNTERPARTS! (or the healthy-minded ones that don't chase after women half their age)...and those will include genuinely nice men who've themselves only just managed to get free from a dissatisfying or downright 'empty' marriage. What he did - helping himself like he's your Keeper rather than husband/teammate.... That was a Dealbreaker as much as you having had that EMOTIONAL (not sexual, note-note-note!) (except in your head, obvs) half-affair....nearly-affair. (You didn't consummate it.) As for so-called Lover. It's clear from reading both on and between the lines - he came onto YOU. And was too 'movie-like' for a blokie (red flag red flag!). And yet it had to be YOU who was the one to raise the fact of attraction from under the table. If as it immediately transpired, he felt the same, then why on earth didn't HE raise it? It's a Narc (including downright immoral and mentally dodgy) move. If you're the one "chased him", he can at whatever point turn around and blame you for the fact the affair happened...to make him YOUR 'prey' and you the determined huntress ("she wouldn't leave me alone, wouldn't take no for an answer, blah-BS-blah"). (Albeit that it doesn't justify his own sh*tty actions - clearly husband knew HE was the one seducing/oiling-up you...Love-Bombing you (with niceness, acting like he was mesmirized with you). Decent adult men don't touch other men's wives, nor per-se vulnerable women full-stop - End Of. They're not after trouble, just a relationship. An exclusive one. What type of man would want to share?! So is that partly the reason why Husband took your - or joint-your - matters into solely his hands?...because he knew he was dealing with his own type and could speak his language? Because (see below) - I see his reply to your husband come manipulation tactic. As for the (if I understood correctly) hiring for your 'office' a woman you'd already turned-down for purely professional reasons, whom, you now know, just so happens to be his ex (- what type of woman wants to get a job in her ex's company anyway?!...see the abmormal/against healthy nature moves being made all around you?!)... That smacks to me of "Take that!".... revenge on husband as well as (google) Narcissistic Triangulation on you. You're meant to crack from the drip-drip cruelty (OH YES) of having her in your face every day on TOP of him (and I'll bet, see him flirt with her too), crack and break your 'Dad's' 'curfew' and beg loverboy to take you back (which would be his two-fingers up to your husband, to-boot...2 for the price of one). It's all in the Narc playbook, only the immaterial details differ...in fact, they act and sound identical. What he's done/is doing is a long, slow, steady version of Hoovering (google) you back (as well, as I say, as yelling Eff-Off, Grandad; you don't tell ME what to do!). Confronting him was the WORST thing he could have done anyway because all he'd have achieved was letting this younger Niffy know that he was DEFINITELY a threat to your husband's marriage, i.e. COULD SUCCEED IF HE JUST UPPED HIS ANTE (via you). (You don't warn off someone who doesn't actually stand a chance, do you now.) Question: are you and your husband rich compared to him? If he was willing to control and pace himself to that steady degree (albeit still rush and tresspass via other aspects I note), then, he was after something long-lasting...possibly a job for-life (or until he jumped ship for someone younger/better, as in, more easily duped and manipulated). And that job (for a *Sociopath* (con merchant) with Narcissism(!)) is called.... You. And your divorce settlement. From the frying-pan into the fire. You should have taken a shorter leap so that you'd landed on the kitchen counter, whereby you could have got back to wide-awake and avoided the frying-pan altogether. (Takes far longer recovery/single time after a Narc marriage than a normal, actual relationship.) But you weren't to know that. However, you are meant to learn and know it from now. I don't know (cos it's still early days in terms of your recovery), but - is any of this chiming with you/your deeper-downs? Your job isn't the problem - but neither can it fill the Love & Romance Hole. For that, you need (drum roll) Love & Romance. OR SPORT! LIKE STARTING AND BUILDING UP A ZUMBA CLASS! Sexual-romantic (romance is women's more-sophisticated/intellectual porn) energy comes from the same 'pot' as sport (incl dancing) and artistic creativity. Narc social predators swoop when you're DOWN. You'd been starved to point of DefCon1 - do or die time - no matter that you meanwhile grabbed for a job. You were (what now?)....DOWN. You'd risen a little bit on getting the job but then 'deflated' again when you realised it helped but not enough. So you were down. A normal, healthy, genuinely nice, decent colleague/bloke would have kept WELL away, wouldn't have got that closely pally with you in the first place. PRECISELY because this is what can too easily happen! You feel you've been rescued from a desperate place and thereby think you've fallen in-love with him. (And doesn't loverboy know it!) 'He took me (etc.)'. Yeah. Damn right HE took YOU. Well Freudian Slipped, that huge Scooby clue. Is this too much too soon? Tell me what you're thinking.

Just to address your list of questions directly: "Now, I’m left with questions that haunt me: Why can’t I be my genuine self without hurting others?" Because you hang on to person Duds as well as job Duds for too long whereby they're still AROUND to be injured by your actions (those of a singleton). You thereby let yourself get too desperate to AFFORD to care, even if you did. "Why does my heart crave connection outside my marriage?" Because you ain't got it inside, where it should be (easy-peasy). "How do I gather the broken pieces of myself and feel whole again?" By putting one foot in front of the other in whatever healthier direction. Do you REALLY want to be forgiven by husbandish, only to find yourself back in the same starved position? Should a man even need TELLING that he's been ignoring and neglecting his supposed Numero Uno's needs like he's some 8-year-old with zero clue (except for going, Eff-off - she's mine!, of course). Do you? This is a (much-needed) crossroads. Because you took the wrong route, initially, for you (true you). "And most painfully how do I silence my heart when it refuses to listen to reason?" Hanging out here, gritting your teeth (No Contact - or in this colleague case - Grey Rock (go google), until Time does its magic and you one day soon wake up and think, 'WTF was I thinking and WT greater F did I SEE IN HIM?!' (either Him). Over-high Narcissism is Basically another word for 'Injured and can't afford to consider others' welfare'. Difference is - in time, the intrinsically healthy/non-narcissistic naturally, inevitably, HEAL/RECOVER, and their over-self-protectiveness settles back down to normal range again. The PERMANENTLY, pathologically (= to all intents incurable) Narcissistic, don't. Can't. Don't wanna (too difficult for kids hiding in grown-up suits). Therefore, don't. Also FYI: I suggest you cease telling people you have yet to get to know and trust - and especially whom have anything to gain or lose from your success or failure - your innermost feelings and beliefs...like, that you're a feminist. Narcs will just see that as a tempting CHALLENGE (a bigger nut to smash). Keep it here where people have zero invested, either way, despite they care anyway (Empaths). ORR you could get a course of counselling (just you)? You don't really seem to understand where you took a wrong road, nor what you're up to (hence the acting-out). Fair observation? PS: Take time to properly mull over what I've said; don't feel pressured to answer immediately. It's a lot to think about in one go. (The happy news is, it's NOT too much to tackle because you're not expected to climb a mountain path in one giant step comprising multiple steps just because you can SEE the whole mountain in front of you. You just take one, even Baby Step, at a time. Even one per day is still progress. PPS: Oh, and a decent bloke, but whom made a silly mistake, would NOT now be making sad faces at you. Only an emotional manipulator-user would do that. Sad faces is him rubbing salt agonisingly into your wound. (Bleugh) How loved does THAT make you feel? (Yeah - you said it!) I'll shut-up now.

Hi Soulmate! Long time. Glad to see your reply. You have always been my saviour. Everything you say here clicks with me ( Boy, I like that style of writing 😁) and my chaotic mind is put to ease. Thanks a ton for that. One quick update here. So like I said X wanted to talk to me few weeks back. I assumed it was about his ex joining the company and shunned him down. Turns out he had resigned (got to know about it 2 days later from my manager). I know it’s for the best. ( flashback- when I had met him earlier, it was evident to me that he was avoiding me, and for me it was truly hard to go through. Like I said, I couldn’t change my feelings for him. Provided it was hard for us to be in the same room, I had asked him when would he be leaving the Company as one of us has to go and he had replied, we would talk. ) Later, I didn’t give him a chance. Also regarding his referrals ( supposedly ex), we didn’t move ahead with her because my manager thought it’d not be a good idea to hire his referrals when he, himself has resigned. Now, I’m a little confused whether it was his ex or not and did he resign because of me (nope- it was always on his cards) At anytime, I can call him and get the clarifications but I don’t want to. First, I’m not sure if he would tell me the truth and even if he does, whether I’d believe it. It’s best to cut the cord here. He has messed with my head and has played me enough. Not anymore. That chapter is closed for sure. Coming back to my husband.. during all this he exhibited new lowest of his emotional immaturity. At the time when he realised I might have feelings for someone else he was devastated and denied everything and had a complete meltdown. I was with him day and night to pull him out of that darkest place. I understand what he was going through and someone would say it’s only because he loved me so much. But your loved one would not take 15 years to understand that he had been emotionally unavailable and the wifey wants something that he is not able to give. After all this, we tried everything— speaking / implementing each other’s love languages, making efforts to spend time together, go for counselling or therapy. But as I said earlier, nothing lasted or made a difference. Now I don’t remember the feeling I had towards him. I miss him when he is not around but not in an intimate way. Not sure when I fell out of love. I remember some two years back I had made an entry in my journal- was I ever attracted to this guy? I know it all sounds stupid now but in arranged marriage that happens. I know many senior folks who just continue being together for whatever reasons. I knew I had to do the same….until X showed up. Let me be really honest here. His encounter was totally unexpected and exhilarating. I really saw it as an opportunity ( perhaps a blessing) to fulfil what was missing in my life. I kinda made a pact with God that let me live this to the fullest (I had a plan only for one year) and I wouldn’t ask you for anything else. X was my fantasy and my husband was my reality. I truly believed that I can have it all. X and I already knew these facts. It was all no strings attached. But it didn’t last for more than two months. The timing was quite impeccable. As soon as X established in the Company he started withdrawing. Now I realised, he had a pattern- love bombing, then truth bombing, then withdrawing and ghosting. My heart ached when he would avoid me. I didn’t want to blame him for anything. I knew what I was doing. I wanted to fully believe in myself and my instincts when I was attracted to someone and that someone was also interested i.ln me. It was magical for me. But, I guess, I was too selfish or starved, inexperienced, foolish, whatever. Now, I’ve learned my lesson and I’ve silenced my inner 16 year old to face the reality. Yes, it’s brutal out here. Current status with my husband- it’s all swept under the rug. Dare I lift the rug again, he may not acknowledge or make a full drama about it but God, we cannot have a sane conversation about this. That’s clear. I’ve been trying to reach him emotionally for years but failed every time— again questioning am I right to ask these questions. ( Now I think he takes everything I say as an offence and thinks I’m looking down upon him) So, pretending is the best I can do , I’ve been doing it for so long. As long as I don’t point his past mistakes , don’t utter a word that something is off and we have daily exchange of house chores or social commitments, we are doing great according to him. So be it. I’ll keep doing the same.

Hi CreativeNick, Apologies for not responding earlier—I got distracted by other posts. I really appreciated the way you replied to mine, and I’m glad to see you took the time to engage with the questions I asked. I think you’ll find most of your questions addressed in my earlier posts, but there’s one that I’ll focus on here since it remains unanswered: “Do you know what your mother said to him? And the more important question—did he ever try to talk to you again afterward? Or did you? Because it can’t just stay like that, pretending everything’s somehow 'normal' now?” To give you some context: He went to my mom, furious about the situation, but didn’t go into much detail. She only understood that he was upset because I had done something wrong. Being a mother who’s protective of her daughter, she tried to console him and advised him to calm down. Even though she asked for more details, he didn’t give them. Later, she filled me in and assumed it was just a typical argument to be ignored. I didn’t correct her then, and it was left at that. I honestly don’t think family or friends can help in this situation. A couple of years ago, I tried to break the silence about his emotional unavailability in front of both our families, thinking they’d be the right support, but it didn’t go well. His parents are more conservative than he is and refused to acknowledge there was any issue at all. They didn’t participate in the discussion. In that moment, only my mom stood by me, but with 2 against 4, we couldn’t make enough of a case. So, it just fizzled out with everyone dismissing it as a small, usual spat. Have you ever experienced something like this—where you try to explain something over and over to someone, but they just don’t understand? I’ve been doing that for years. The things I've asked him often are: Why can’t we have a casual conversation about silly things without judgment? (That’s actually been happening more often recently, but still…) Why do you shut down when I try to talk about uncomfortable topics—your feelings, PDA, or how certain songs/movies make you feel? (Most probably, he himself doesn't know how to feel about this) Why do you retreat when we’re about to have an argument? Why do you seem scared, insecure, and treat me like a ticking bomb? Do you realize how exhausting it is to feel like I’m walking on eggshells around you? I’ve tried having these conversations for years, but I can’t do it without upsetting him. And, honestly, I’ve given up. There’s no point in trying anymore. I don’t want this to turn into a marriage counseling session (believe me, I’ve been there), but I’ve reached a point where I’ve just resigned myself to the fact that this isn’t going anywhere.

Be with you soon as I can, Blue (not ignoring you)!

Phew, I'm finally caught-up! You're next. :)

Heya again! Glad I managed to put you at ease. Before I begin: CN is a bit blue at the mo (see her thread if you want to know why and wish her well?), but she'll be back once her spirits return. I hope so because - she and I said the exact same thing, independently: "It feels that way because when you deny yourself to the point that a part of your emotional self begins to die, the heart will eventually rebel. And that’s not a moral failure, it’s a human response to deprivation.You already said it yourself: the longer you suppress it, the stronger it’ll grow, and you’ll reach for it the moment the opportunity arises." Whilst I basically said, you're hanging onto Dud situations or people for too long, meanwhile, starving until you panic and act. You seem uncomfortable with making big decisions. Is that right? (No worries if so - it's a victim symptom; it doesn't last once you've 'woken up' the rest of the way. Just checking where you're at right now. ************************************* "One quick update here. So like I said X wanted to talk to me few weeks back. I assumed it was about his ex joining the company and shunned him down. Turns out he had resigned (got to know about it 2 days later from my manager). I know it’s for the best. ( flashback- when I had met him earlier, it was evident to me that he was avoiding me, and for me it was truly hard to go through. Like I said, I couldn’t change my feelings for him. Provided it was hard for us to be in the same room, I had asked him when would he be leaving the Company as one of us has to go and he had replied, we would talk. ) Later, I didn’t give him a chance. Also regarding his referrals ( supposedly ex), we didn’t move ahead with her because my manager thought it’d not be a good idea to hire his referrals when he, himself has resigned. Now, I’m a little confused whether it was his ex or not and did he resign because of me (nope- it was always on his cards) At anytime, I can call him and get the clarifications but I don’t want to. First, I’m not sure if he would tell me the truth and even if he does, whether I’d believe it. It’s best to cut the cord here. He has messed with my head and has played me enough. Not anymore. That chapter is closed for sure." STICKY GOLD STAR ON YOUR FOREHEAD ("THLUP!") - EXCELLENT RECOVERY! Seriously, what a bounce-back (Houston, we have another Weeble!) (was just telling Aydie/Aydrian that on her thread). Hmm... I wonder if his plan to plonk his Ex into your office was some sort of revenge? Can you think how that would work?

Think about how your manager put it: it wouldn't be right to accept a referral from someone who HAD - i.e had since! - resigned. WHY wouldn't it, if he made the referral PRIOR to resigning (which the manager's semantics give away). It's a White lie. It's because the manager got wind of the fact this woman was also his ex. I can see it, anyway. Can you now?

"Coming back to my husband.. during all this he exhibited new lowest of his emotional immaturity. At the time when he realised I might have feelings for someone else he was devastated and denied everything and had a complete meltdown. I was with him day and night to pull him out of that darkest place. I understand what he was going through and someone would say it’s only because he loved me so much. But your loved one would not take 15 years to understand that he had been emotionally unavailable and the wifey wants something that he is not able to give." YOU SAID IT! ("Thlup!") "After all this, we tried everything— speaking / implementing each other’s love languages, making efforts to spend time together, go for counselling or therapy. But as I said earlier, nothing lasted or made a difference." No, it doesn't with his type. It's only their ego that cares. "Now I don’t remember the feeling I had towards him." That's interesting! "I miss him when he is not around but not in an intimate way." Just company...habit... and because you're still fond (albeit, decreasingly as the "nothing's changed" continues....kicking the love (and then hope) out of you, I call it). "Not sure when I fell out of love." Over a long period of drip-drip-drips of relational acid (starving you). "I remember some two years back I had made an entry in my journal- was I ever attracted to this guy?" No, you were attracted to the guy he advertised and character-acted for a period. And he's the one you married. Suddenly, they're nothing LIKE the person they used to be - are even the polar opposite! - and you can't even pinpoint when it happened (drip-drip-drip is how). "I know it all sounds stupid now but in arranged marriage that happens. I know many senior folks who just continue being together for whatever reasons." Aww bloody hell. Arranged marriage? *sigh* And no, none of this sounds stupid. Just because the marriage was arranged, does that automatically mean you can't UN-arrange it? I mean... the guy starves you but then goes ballistic and doolally if you find someone else who tries to (ostensibly)! How, logically, does this end if you don't do something? However, what's left to do? What do you WANT to do? Or what WOULD you (not ready yet)?

"Current status with my husband- it’s all swept under the rug. Dare I lift the rug again, he may not acknowledge or make a full drama about it but God, we cannot have a sane conversation about this. That’s clear." If that's the case then you'll have to go and see a solicitor....find out exactly where you stand in terms of future financial security. Is that possible? That way you'll have a choice: (a) Divorce him and know you'll not just be fine, you'll soar. (b) Stay and find ways of no longer caring (use him back), make your own life, then one day burst out of the seams and 'suddenly' leave him (with lots of drama). (c) Stay and find ways, and resign yourself to the fact you don't really have a marriage - just an arrangement...one you were conned into wanting (with his Mr Attentive & Giving face).

As I'm involved on CN's own thread, I can answer this on her behalf: "Have you ever experienced something like this—where you try to explain something over and over to someone, but they just don’t understand? I’ve been doing that for years. The things I've asked him often are:" YES. Oh BOY, yes. (And my arm's up as well.) (And no doubt the lurkers' arms too) They don't WANT to understand because then they'll have to change their set-up and they don't WANT anything to change because they're spoilt-baby dominators as well as neglectors: THEY'VE GOT IT EXACTLY AS THEY WANT IT. It's HIM who first started behaving like he had his cake and could eat it: an emotional cripple, not capable/qualified for a relationship, but here was a family and daughter who believed his and his family's act that he WAS. Call Advertising Standards. You and your family were conned. Little wonder, then, that his own family denied there was any problem. He'd have to move back home with them, wouldn't he. (Husband ticks all the narc boxes, btw. Ensure the solicitor you see for an exploratory consultation understands narcissism in a marriage and, mostly importantly, in a divorce.)

So... His having his cake and eating it (looking like he's married whilst not married, and SOD whether you starved and withered away) came first (albeit in drip-drips). Your own (REACTIVE!) version (having a feast) was caused by his. You were forced into it (a survival situation producing survivalist behaviour). Self-Defence.

Just realised my typo: "I mean... the guy starves you but then goes ballistic and doolally if you find someone else who tries to (ostensibly) feed you (no matter his own intention was love-bombing and falsely advertising as well)". It's this: I don't want you but no-one else can have you. It's a lie. They do want you. Just not how you signed-up to be wanted. The warm fuzzies. Not this Siberian desert crap. But - 'HE'S alright, Jack'. So eff-you. Google "Narcissist - Primary Supply". **************** https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/covert-narcissism ((My comments in double brackets)) "People with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)—including those with the severe subtype, malignant narcissism—are often depicted as being talkative, showy, and pretentious. They consistently brag and bluster to command attention and gain admiration. However, those are signs of overt (or grandiose) narcissism, and they don’t account for all narcissists. A covert narcissist (also known as vulnerable narcissist) ((incorrect: not all Coverts are 'vulnerable')) falls into a narcissistic personality disorder subtype that combines traits like self-centeredness and manipulative behavior with an introverted demeanor. Because covert narcissists seem so reserved or even modest, it can be easy to overlook their more problematic traits. Being close to a covert narcissist can be challenging in the long run. ((Hah! That's putting it mildly!)) They can’t handle criticism ((nor any demands and assertions for equal rights)), so you likely feel like you’re walking on eggshells around them. Whenever you try to offer feedback, they give you the cold shoulder ((google Covert Narcissist - The Silent Treatment)). Their reactiveness and defensive attitude can be stressful to deal with. Their negativity can also weigh on you. ((OMG, they are INCREDIBLY negative and pessimistic!)) They may often talk about how under-appreciated they are and complain about how unfair life has been to them. At the same time, they’re so self-absorbed they have little to offer you in terms of attention or emotional support. You’ll find it hard to have a reciprocal relationship. At their worst, their envy, lack of empathy, and intense desire for admiration can lead them to be manipulative. They can also be passive aggressive and look for indirect ways to express their resentment. ((Covert Narcs - classic or vulnerable - cannot be dealt with because even their "Off-The-Table-Itis" has "Off-The-Table-Itis" - they will literally deny the evidence before them! They are wimpy weasels but have the most in-common with malignant psychopaths - mainly for their high Machievellianism (planning and plotting much more cleverly than the other types) and cruelty bordering on sadism...cold and calculating like a bad psycho. Hence they can keep you gaslit and avoid being fired, for bloody decades! Saying about Coverts: You don't see them coming, but you definitely see them going.)) Like all narcissists, covert narcissists rarely admit that they have a problem ((except if it serves them somehow, but more often they'll respond with: 'I know, I'm really bad like that' but then NOTHING...as if that admission somehow closes the topic!...incredible)), but their actions can be harmful to themselves and those around them. Whether you have a friend, partner, or family member who is a covert narcissist, it’s important to acknowledge how their behavior can affect your well-being. Understanding the traits and causes of this personality disorder can help you navigate the relationship and protect yourself. ...The term “covert narcissism” doesn’t appear in the current DSM. However, the concept of the condition has shown up in different forms for decades. For example, in 1989, psychiatrist Glen Gabbard used the term “hypervigilant narcissist” to refer to the introverted subtype and “oblivious narcissist” for the extroverted subtype. In 1993, psychiatrist James Masterson theorized the existence of “closet narcissists” who differed from “exhibitionistic narcissists.” Some researchers suggest that rather than fitting neatly into separate categories, narcissists shift between grandiose and vulnerable (overt and covert) states. ((Yes - finally! And Narc-Sociopaths are the worst for that - distracting you with deliberate shennangans to keep your eyes off what they're doing out of your eyeshot, which is far-far worse.)) It’s possible that when an overt narcissist experiences consequences to their behavior, their sense of superiority collapses into feelings of shame and inadequacy. Covert narcissist traits The signs of covert narcissism can be a little more subtle than those of overt narcissism. Here are some covert narcissism traits to look out for: Self-centeredness. All types of narcissists, from grandiose to covert, carry a high sense of self-importance. They’re so focused on themselves that they often struggle with empathy and will prioritize their own needs and wants over yours. Conversations with a narcissistic partner can mostly involve them airing their grievances, and you always feel unheard. Introversion. Unlike extroverted narcissists, people with covert narcissism aren’t as likely to seek out the spotlight. Instead, they can come off as reserved or shy. Part of this may be social awkwardness or nervousness. A 2023 exploratory study found that covert or vulnerable narcissists seem to be more emotionally reactive and experience larger spikes in stress hormones during high-pressure social situations, such as job interviews. Hypersensitive to criticism. Whether you’re offering them instructive feedback at work or correcting their misinformation, narcissists will take criticism very personally. Although a covert narcissist may not react with angry outbursts, they might grow sullen, defensive, or withdrawn, opting for the silent treatment rather than a furious tantrum. Desire for recognition and validation. Covert narcissists often fantasize about success and recognition, and this will be evident in their behavior. They might try to direct your attention to their accomplishments or subtly brag in hopes of gaining your admiration. Despite this, a covert narcissist may not actually have a lot of self-confidence. Fragile self-esteem. Covert narcissists are less likely to overestimate their abilities than overt narcissists. Internally, they grapple with feelings of inadequacy despite their desire to be seen as special or successful. When they don’t get the validation or admiration they crave, their self-esteem can crumble. Victim mentality. Covert narcissists are often fatalistic, meaning they see themselves as victims of circumstance. They frequently claim to be unappreciated and misunderstood. An overt narcissist might say, “Look how smart I am!” But a covert narcissist is more likely to mutter, “People never notice how smart I am.” Passive-aggression. If you cross a covert narcissist, they might not express their anger directly—unlike overt narcissists, who can be outright aggressive when their ego is threatened. Instead, covert narcissists use subtle insults to express their displeasure or use passive-aggressive behavior, such as withholding information, to get vengeance. Constant manipulation. They might sulk to gain your attention and flattery. Or they might shift blame onto you to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions. Perhaps a covert narcissistic friend blames you for their poor spending habits or binge drinking. Deflecting blame allows them to protect their own self-esteem while making you feel inferior ((which pumps up their ego)). ((And they deliberately sabotage you, too - e.g. make you miss your flight...Never mind uncooperative - they're ANTI-cooperative.)) Negativity. A 2017 study suggested that a key difference between covert and overt narcissism is that the former experiences a higher degree of neuroticism. Neuroticism is a personality trait that reflects emotional instability and the tendency to experience negative emotions like anxiety and stress. In other words, covert narcissists carry a more negative attitude and outlook than their grandiose counterparts. Insecure attachment style. Grandiose narcissists often take an outwardly dismissive view of relationships, including romantic relationships. They might think and say things like, “I don’t need anyone else. I can do it myself.” Covert narcissists, on the other hand, usually have a fear of rejection or abandonment. ((No, that's the Covert *Vulnerable*; the classic Covert cuts you off very suddenly and is not bothered; they're over self-sufficient and -independent, like the malig. psycho.)) Both types may struggle to cultivate deep, healthy relationships that feel anything more than transactional. ((Hence you feel like little more than an unpaid housekeeper, and/or just "shop window dressing", etc.)) [Read: Attachment Styles and How They Affect Adult Relationships] Causes of covert narcissism A combination of genetics and childhood experiences may cause this personality disorder. Genetic factors. There may be genetic predispositions that lead to the development of traits associated with narcissism. Some studies of twins have determined that the disorder is at least partially inheritable. The same applies to other personality disorders. Childhood experiences. A child who receives excessive praise from their parents may grow into an adult who is entitled and self-important. ((Classic Covert...enragingly superior and pompous!)) However, child abuse or neglect may also lead to narcissistic traits. ((It's usually neglect mainly or exclusively.)) For example, a child who is neglected or constantly criticized may obsessively seek validation and admiration from others to cope with low self-esteem. Tips for dealing with covert narcissism in a relationship Maintaining a connection with a covert narcissist can be both frustrating and exhausting. Each conversation can feel delicate, as you spend much of it trying to avoid saying something that will irritate them. After every encounter, you may feel completely sapped of energy. The covert narcissist may also try to manipulate or gaslight you. For example, they might regularly guilt you into believing you’ve wronged them when the opposite is true. This can leave you feeling confused and self-doubting. It can seem the two of you are caught in a negative cycle. You keep hoping for them to change, and they stick to the same old habits. But there are ways to cope with their behavior while also protecting yourself. Ensuring you have a realistic perspective on the relationship is the first step. Then, you can move onto setting boundaries, handling their passive-aggressive tactics, and seeking support and healing." ************************* Hope you found that interesting and helpful? PS: And they're bloody miserly too! Unless it's something THEY want to splash-out on or use as manipulation. They're just all-round MEAN (including with their time). And highly vindictive. Really exhausting. And are the type to trade you in for a younger model.

Here's a classic Covert demonstrating their false sense of superiority and pomposity - timed at 0:31 - "You can play the piano, can't you?": https://www.facebook.com/FOXTEL/videos/best-of-british-mum/282871626315772/ :D

(I'd have smiled and replied - 'Oh, really? And what about A-R-S-E-H-O-L-E - would you pronounce that "are-sole" or "ace-hole"?) (but then, I am a little bugger, tee-hee, lol).

Hi Soulmate, Thank you for the reply. I meant to respond sooner, but I was caught up in my own anxiety and fear. Thank you for showing me that perspective and educating me on the traits of covert narcissists. I wouldn’t say it’s a 100% match, but I can definitely identify certain traits in him. To tell you the truth, I’m exhausted. I feel empty inside, and my senses are going numb. I don’t think I’m capable of giving any joy to anyone or even to myself right now. However, I realize I feel this way specifically when I’m around my husband. It feels like I’m carrying dead weight, and he doesn’t make it any easier. We have started sleeping separately. Last weekend, I asked him for time to talk. We spoke for about two hours, but once again, I felt like I was the only one leading the conversation. I wanted him to ask questions, but he wouldn’t. He doesn’t seem to need any clarity—perhaps he is avoiding acknowledging reality, as usual. Instead, he is waiting for me to propose the next steps, likely to make it look like this is all 'my idea.' I don’t know if others have been in this situation, but it is classic passive-aggressive behavior, and I am sick of it to the core. The term constructive separation keeps coming to my mind, and I've been giving it serious thought. I tried to open up to my sister, and she could relate, but I remain skeptical and fear that I may be blowing this out of proportion. I had the same thought two years ago, but convinced myself it was just a phase perhaps pre-menopause and that it would pass. Living with this person every day now gives me jitters, and I wonder how I will manage another year, month, or even another day. Spending time together has become a challenge for both of us. He seems content with a purely transactional relationship, but for me, a marriage without emotional connection is meaningless. I feel like I am living with a stranger or a neighbor. This lack of connection creates such a distance, which makes me constantly doubt myself: Am I unnecessarily asking for too much? This is where I get scared of my own thoughts, wondering if perhaps my perspective is flawed or wrong because nobody else seems to understand. The whole situation feels fundamentally wrong. I shouldn't be comparing my life, but I can't help but look at others and question what brings them joy and how I can bring that smile back to my own face. It should be easier, but why does happiness feel so hard to achieve when I am around him? After four days of silence, he somehow thinks he can revert to 'normal' behavior, carrying on with a routine without acknowledging that anything was ever wrong. This infuriates me. I want to scream at the top of my voice, asking how he can be so indifferent, but I cannot, because it immediately sends him back into his shell. As you said, I am truly stuck in this negative cycle, and I don’t know a way out.

No, Blue - you're *engaged* in a negative cycle, not stuck in it. Anyway, just wanted to say - hang tight, be with you properly/more lengthily asap. And yes, I do know how you feel (and so does a surprisingly large chunk of the world population!). You are DEFINITELY not rare or alone in this! Try not to worry - there's really no need, not now that you've hit (because it's narcissism/extreme-ness) "I've had enough of having had enough"-point - you're now on the up and up (it's HIM who's going down). You'll just kick yourself later down the line for having wasted precious energy if you do. Just rest and please yourself for a bit. Go cold on or ignore him if you like? At least that might trigger him back into The Chase (that's the only bit narcs can or are willing to do....You've probably noticed, wry LOL). "Push-You-Pull-Me" is another term to describe a fauxlationship with a Covert - and that's because they have a co-morbidity between Fear Of Abandonment AND Fear Of Intimacy. Yup. It had begun to be Over at Hello. ((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))) Keep reading-up about it and your anxiety will calm down. Knowledge is Power (AND Confidence!).

Hey-hey! First thing's first (because this dictates how exactly I advise you, to be of real use): "I wouldn’t say it’s a 100% match, but I can definitely identify certain traits in him." Oh, really? I want an 100% match so - tell me which traits DON'T describe him? Is he a sulker or a rager? Or both, depending...?

"We have started sleeping separately. Last weekend, I asked him for time to talk. We spoke for about two hours, but once again, I felt like I was the only one leading the conversation. I wanted him to ask questions, but he wouldn’t. He doesn’t seem to need any clarity—perhaps he is avoiding acknowledging reality, as usual. Instead, he is waiting for me to propose the next steps, likely to make it look like this is all 'my idea.' I don’t know if others have been in this situation, but it is classic passive-aggressive behavior, and I am sick of it to the core." Don't remind me! Need I say more. This bit, though: "We have started sleeping separately. " YUSSSS! (punches air!) You'll be surprised at how much easier this is going to be for you, now that you'll have less sex and intimacy. But - yes. Coverts want you to look like the baddie. I take it you've been confiding in your parents about what a failure of a husband (and adult human) he is? Another question: Does he have a good career? Reason I ask is because, Coverts cannot succeed at both, meaning, if they're good at their job or career, you yourself will barely get a look-in.

"We have started sleeping separately. Last weekend, I asked him for time to talk. We spoke for about two hours, but once again, I felt like I was the only one leading the conversation. I wanted him to ask questions, but he wouldn’t. He doesn’t seem to need any clarity—perhaps he is avoiding acknowledging reality, as usual." No, it's that he doesn't give a sh*t...because he believes you're trapped (psychologically, practically, fiscally - however-ly). Narcs of any type, can't attach enough to run and succeed a relationship. They only know how to SLAP a woman into submission ("treat her mean to keep her keen"), rather than love her into it ("happy wife - happy life"). They're mal-programmed machines (because they lack the Empathy as makes us Human). Emotional Cripples, stunted with it (stuck in the mindset of at whatever age massive trauma or drip-drip trauma reaching critical (boom!), occurred). They literally do not care about anyone or anything, except for themselves. Having you as his wife makes him appear normal. Think about it...

"As you said, I am truly stuck in this negative cycle, and I don’t know a way out." Yeah, ya do. It's just too soon, that's all. You've only just woken-up....still have some more waking-up to do. What's that meme?..... "First I drink the coffee and THEN I do the work". Yeah? You're having your coffee. Try not to worry. I've got this. And you will, too...sooner than you think. AND more smoothly. I can't say this enough: It's HE who's in trouble, not you. He'll go down - you'll go up. :) I'm not worried. If I worry - THEN you can worry. Fairenoughski?

"The term constructive separation keeps coming to my mind, and I've been giving it serious thought. I tried to open up to my sister, and she could relate, but I remain skeptical and fear that I may be blowing this out of proportion. I had the same thought two years ago, but convinced myself it was just a phase perhaps pre-menopause and that it would pass." No. And having 'a run-up' is normal. It can take seven attempts to escape your narc - ESPECIALLY the Covert. It all seems so petty, doesn't it. I repeat....... Acid............drip...drip....drip....Oh, look - the mountain is now just a pebble! YOU...however....are NOT 'pebbleified'. He doesn't stand a chance! (That'll teach him.)

Go see a divorce solicitor. The sooner you go, the sooner you'll leave their office, clicking your heels together in massive relief and anticipation of your rosier future. :) Once you have - IF you want, insist he comes to marriage counselling with you. (You book it, and when you interview the counsellor on the phone, make sure s/he is knowledgeable about NPD divorce (AND marriage!). Seriously... You'll feel SO much beter for it!

"but for me, a marriage without emotional connection is meaningless." For ANY sane, healthy human! Trust me - once you get distance from him, you'll realise more and more, just HOW abused you've been. Covert: Hidden. Covert Abuse: Hidden Abuse. I.e. under your radar. ....Tricked into marrying a psychological cripple. The Narc coffee machine: 1. Out comes the milk. 2. Then the coffee 3. Then the cup. 4. Then the sugar. *Out Of Order - Contact Management*

"Living with this person every day now gives me jitters" Your nervous system (which is what their behaviour around and towards you, detriments) is 'screaming' at you. As you're not consciously ready to walk away: order yourself some EPA/DHA (no trace metals) Omega 3 capsules, 1000gm. Take 2 per day for 2 weeks, then 1 if you start to feel your more sassy self again. You could probably do with some Vit D and B6 and 12, too, but the powerful source is via food so - Go oogle. You've worked so over-hard on this marriage that you've literally used up your oil reserves (think car) and need a top-up (this time, with Premium grade). As you're deficient - you'll feel the benefits BIG-time and surprisingly speedily. Meanwhile, your brain needs to store-up on animal fat and water. You also need a Fun injection. What amuses you?

PS: "Am I unnecessarily asking for too much? This is where I get scared of my own thoughts, wondering if perhaps my perspective is flawed or wrong because nobody else seems to understand. The whole situation feels fundamentally wrong." Spoken like a true victim (of a Covert).

"It should be easier, but why does happiness feel so hard to achieve when I am around him?" Because he's malprogrammed thus highly inter-relationally dysfunctional. Are mental patients (despite who've in this case learned how to do a passing cover-up) NORMALLY known for making other people happy? (Ya daft ugger, haha!.... Gosh, married to a Covert and not happy/shredded nerves...how queer!...never HEARD of such a thing!) (It's lucky you like my sarcasm, eh, LOL.)

"After four days of silence, he somehow thinks he can revert to 'normal' behavior, carrying on with a routine without acknowledging that anything was ever wrong. This infuriates me. I want to scream at the top of my voice, asking how he can be so indifferent, but I cannot, because it immediately sends him back into his shell." Do it here. Write him a furious letter. (YOU'D BE SURPRISED....!) I'll mark you out of 10 for healthy bitchiness. :D I'll start you off: 'Dear Forrest Dump,'...

Blue? Are you alright? What's happening?

I’m not alright. I feel like crying all the time. My sister listened to me and she tried to be a mediator between us. He didn’t like the idea at first. After talking to us, she understood that we have a huge communication gap between us. I want to bridge this gap by starting a conversation but he does not feel ‘safe’ to have this conversation because he thinks I ‘attack’ him and keeps playing a victim card. He thinks I’m a ticking bomb. I’ve been silent for past 2-3 weeks. Not really being myself. I feel this has given him some space to breathe and he continues with a normal routine. But for me this is suffocating. I don’t feel any attachment. I just carry on. I agree to whatever he says and keep the interaction to minimum. This works for everyone around us. I don’t know who I’m anymore. Going through a weekend is a challenge.

Heya! Making my way to you (see Aiden's thread), just bumping you up.... As you're upset, I'm sure Aiden won't mind if I respond to you first. Hang tight - be back soon! ((((((((hug))))))))))

Heya! "I’m not alright. I feel like crying all the time." ((((((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))))))) HOWEVER - the fact you're feeling like crying all the time is GOOD. Let it happen and stop when it stops. You'll release a whole barrage of banked-up toxins (no bull!). Get the poison OUT! Have you cried by now? Feeling better but exhausted? "My sister listened to me and she tried to be a mediator between us. He didn’t like the idea at first. After talking to us, she understood that we have a huge communication gap between us." Putting it kindly - yes. But that's just one symptom of the bigger disease. What does sister know? Is she viewing him through the Normal Person lens or a narc one? If that's ALL she picked-up on, then - clearly, yes, she is. "I want to bridge this gap by starting a conversation but he does not feel ‘safe’ to have this conversation because he thinks I ‘attack’ him and keeps playing a victim card. He thinks I’m a ticking bomb." What a convenient bag of excuses. Missus - even with a professional, specialist counsellor on-board - you are never-ever going to get him to change! You cannot counsel using LIES (like that prime example - lying-by-omission aka failing to mention aka an edited sound-byte) where there's no MENTION of what he'd said done/failed yet again to do, to get you INTO a lather in the first place - AS WOULD EVEN A SAINT! They are TOO frustrating! They can have you ending-up 'beside yourself'! The Police are clued-up on this bollocks these days....your "Domestics" (now including Emotional Batterings/Starvings). They EXPECT the perpetrator to point to the now-hysterical victim, going, 'See - see? It's not me - look at her/him - she/he's HYSTERICAL, COMPLETELY OUT-OF-CONTROL....GONE MAAAAAAD!' So your sister doesn't know what she's dealing with and her intervention could have done more damage than good. "I’ve been silent for past 2-3 weeks. Not really being myself." Good! Excellent! Well done! "I feel this has given him some space to breathe and he continues with a normal routine." Sod him - it's given YOU space to breathe! "But for me this is suffocating. I don’t feel any attachment. I just carry on." I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE - TRUST ME! It feels like the hardest test of your strength that you've ever had to face and endure. But what you're doing is worth its weight in GOLD. You are in the JUSTIFIABLE position of what is known as Not Engaging.... No Contact for when the bodily version isn't practicable - like your case. "I agree to whatever he says and keep the interaction to minimum." Clever gal! That is the right thing also! (Nothing wrong with YOUR instincts, then...you just weren't sure what he was and now you are so it's get yer fangs out time and HE'S GOING DOOOOOOWN. You, on the other hand, will be fine. Usually - MORE than fine. And kicking yerself for having stayed. (Don't bother - you didn't 'stay', you were chained-up - psych fact...you were paralysed. No different to being a driver at a set of lights but which are going - Green-Red-Amber-Green-Red-Amber every Nth of a second. What effect will that have on you? There ya go then - you're just normal (and still very intelligent thkfk haha). "This works for everyone around us. I don’t know who I’m anymore. Going through a weekend is a challenge." You don't NEED to know who you are anymore - it was a contrived response to contrived incoming. It isn't you - you aren't yourself. What happens is, you go 'back' to who you were before you married BUT WITH THIS WHOLE HEAP OF NEW (PSYCH) MUSCLES AND SENSE OF POWERFULNESS AND VIBRANCY....AND WISDOM! And then the 'positive snowball effect' starts and your life improves and you love your days again and you have toast 'n Marmite for supper if you want to....etcetera. And basically get re-aquainted and newly-acquainted both! Oh, the perks are so worth it. But whomever except those of us in-the-know would ever consider our old friend "NORMALITY" (Norma Lity, haha) to feel like some sort of haven or heaven??? You just have to endure and not fight it or think that ANYTHING you are doing is weird or wrong or somehow unhealthy- NO. You've got this, you're doing everything right! Okay? I'll TELL you if you do something incorrect. Okay? So far - 10 out of 10 (show-off ;p). Keep talking. Have a damn good scream and rant if you want. It's like puking up poison before it can damage you. Get it out as quickly as you can.

Hey Soulmate, Just wanted to share that I’m holding on. Some days feel really heavy, while others are easier. It feels like I’m in the middle of a major life transition, but with each passing day, I’m gaining a little more clarity about what I need. When I think about my son and family, the road ahead feels overwhelming at times. So I’m reminding myself to take baby steps, just like you said. I want to be fully prepared—mentally, emotionally, and financially—for what lies ahead. I’ve made a promise to myself to stay present and truly be there for myself. I know how powerful it can be when you understand and believe in yourself. Fingers crossed 🤞

Your incredible positivity is a credit to you, missus, and is what will get you coming out of this, smiling. Yup. Baby-Steps. Just one little shuffle in front of the other still gets you there. And there's no fire (just a damp squib haha). Keep a record of the Grief Waves so that you can start to fit these rhythms into your life for a while - or rather, fit your life around them. On crap days, don't even bother pushing yourself to function as usual; all you'll be doing is depriving your mind from its all-important processing... you're NOT "being lazy", your mind has a mountainous stack of 'paperwork' to get through. It's just an invisible workload (more's the pity). And then on good days, play catch-up, but don't exhaust yourself. Your inner world takes priority in this type of situation. If he moans, just agree (exhaustedly): "Yeeeeaaah...I dunno what's wrong with me latelyyyy, I've just got no energyyyyy...hmm.... Maybe I've got Covid?" (which is a fine example of "out-Narcing the Narc" because admission of a fault or wrongdoing, without doing anything ABOUT it, is typically what Coverts do.... Plus, he won't want to catch it so will give you a wide berth... Let's do an Evil Cackle together... "Mwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaaa!" :D Have you made an appointment with a Narc-Divorce Solicitor yet, to see how financially same or better-off you'd be "if/when"?

Blue_Sky, Thank you for sharing your story. It was one of the first I read on this site and i felt i wanted to share some of my observations. It takes courage to honestly examine one's feelings. Let's look at what's happening not just through feelings, but as two different relationship patterns you've experienced. Understanding these patterns might offer a new way forward. Pattern A: The "Learned Caution" Dynamic Its Possible Origin: Many of us learn our first rules about connection from early caregivers. Sometimes, we learn that showing our true needs leads to disappointment or distance. A protective part of us then adopts a rule: "To keep love safe, I must hide my deeper self. My needs might be too much." How It Played Out With Your Husband: It's possible you unintentionally placed him in this old, familiar dynamic. The very fear of losing that fundamental bond can make us follow the old "caution" rulebook: we withhold our loneliness, our need for conversation, and our desire for warmth to keep the peace. The burden this creates is that our partner is left trying to solve a problem they don't fully see, which can lead to both people feeling alone and misunderstood. This isn't about blame, but about recognizing a pattern that can leave everyone feeling stuck. Pattern B: The "New Space" Dynamic Its Context: This is the dynamic we often wish for — a connection where it feels safe to be open WITHOUT that old fear. Crucially, this feeling often emerges outside of those primary, high-stakes relationships where our oldest fears live. How It Played Out With X: He naturally existed in a different "space." As a new person without the history and weight of a life built together, he didn't trigger that same primal fear of loss. This different context allowed you to use a different rulebook: when he asked, you could share. The intense "awakening" you felt was likely the profound relief of setting down, even temporarily, the exhausting burden of hiding. X wasn't a magic key; he was a person you interacted with in a space where you felt able to try a different way of connecting. The Crossroads: Bringing the New Pattern Home This isn't about which man was "better." It's about the two different ways of relating you explored. The real, difficult question is this: What would it take to experiment with "Pattern B" in the context of "Pattern A"? For which person are you willing to do the work associated with this? This isn't about your husband suddenly becoming like X. It's about you finding the courage to gradually bring the method of Pattern B — small acts of sharing, clear expressions of need — into your marriage. It means: Seeing your husband as your partner in the present, separate from past fears. Giving him clear, kind information about what you need to feel connected, rather than waiting for him to guess. Starting very small with one honest conversation, and observing what happens. This is the harder but more meaningful awakening. It's not about finding a new person to play a new script with, but about bringing a new way of connecting back to the life and partner you've chosen. It is challenging work, but it is the only path that leads to a genuinely different outcome. I also believe that when we work on our closest relationships, we are in a way also reconnecting with ourself. Maybe the best outcome of this is the benefit to yourself by the new way of connecting with yourself. Maybe we shouldn't even be having this conversation here, maybe you should be having it with your husband.

Hi Bluesky, I'm late to this thread and you probably have gotten a lot of good advice already. I just wanted to say that what you experienced is not unusual and lots of people have these same challenges in their marriage. Marriage is difficult even when both partners are well adjusted and committed. Forgive yourself for your emotional infidelity. Infatuation releases a whole lot of endorphins that long-term established relationships have exhausted long ago. What I have learned after 25 years of marriage is that the infatuation is the easy part. It's the high and no high is meant to last forever. The part where the real heart of your relationship lives, if you give it a chance, is in the everyday monotony of knowing each other so well that the endorphins don't show up very often. But something else will, if you let it. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to those who love you, but sometimes that means hurting them with the truth. Be yourself and let the chips fall where they will.

Hi All, Thank you, Soulmate, Istheremore, and Playingthru, for responding to this thread. I’ve read all your replies, and I truly appreciate the new perspectives you’ve shared. They’ve helped me think about this situation differently. I’m trying to look at everything as objectively as possible. I keep reminding myself that it’s normal to feel overwhelmed at times and completely detached at others. As I mentioned before, I feel like I’m at a crossroads, preparing myself for the road ahead. Sometimes I fear losing my ability to feel, to make sense of my surroundings, or to distinguish right from wrong—especially when we begin “normalising” every deviation as simply part of life. For example, sleeping separately, interacting only when necessary, minimising interdependence, and so on. I’ll try to respond to some of the questions raised here: “Have you made an appointment with a Narc-Divorce Solicitor yet, to see how financially same or better-off you’d be ‘if/when’?” No, not yet. I felt it was important to involve close family members first before seeking professional help. I also need to fully understand my/our financial situation. I know it may sound hesitant, but I’m taking the time to prepare myself for the life I want to live moving forward. “Maybe we shouldn’t even be having this conversation here; maybe you should be having it with your husband.” Yes, you’re right. Please believe me when I say I’ve tried many times, the most recent was last Saturday, 7th February. He does not “like” having these conversations. He often feels threatened or attacked, and as a result, avoids them altogether…especially heart-to-heart discussions. We’ve had such conversations over the years, but now I feel I’ve lost the ability to reconnect with him. “Giving him clear, kind information about what you need to feel connected, rather than waiting for him to guess.” I’ve been doing this for the past couple of years. We even created one-page documents outlining our expectations of each other, but they were eventually sidelined. When I read them now, I realise very little has changed. The reality is that he does not seem ready to face the truth, and he shuts down every attempt I make to reach him emotionally. Something that should feel natural and effortless in a relationship feels like a mammoth task for me. That’s where my confusion begins: • Am I not communicating clearly? • Am I wrong to ask for this? • Why does asking him questions about his own heart make him so uncomfortable? • What more should I do to make myself understood? He has always been emotionally shut down. Perhaps that should have been my clue all along. As Soulmate mentioned earlier, I tend to hold on to these duds for too long and create spirals for myself. But breaking that pattern feels overwhelming right now. I also feel that people around me are not ready to understand what I’m going through. Either they truly don’t understand, or I find myself frustrated because I feel unheard. “Be yourself and let the chips fall where they will.” Thank you so much for this. It feels reassuring to hear those words while I’m in the process of rediscovering myself. I know I may be underestimating my own strength, and deep down I believe I can carry myself through this. Right now, though, the road ahead feels blurry. It’s like ripping off a bandage. I know it has to be done, but I’m standing in that moment of hesitation just before taking the step. I sincerely hope that, in the end, everyone finds their own sense of peace. Sending my best wishes and heartfelt love to all.

Hey Blue! Financially: "“Have you made an appointment with a Narc-Divorce Solicitor yet, to see how financially same or better-off you’d be ‘if/when’?” No, not yet. I felt it was important to involve close family members first before seeking professional help. I also need to fully understand my/our financial situation. I know it may sound hesitant, but I’m taking the time to prepare myself for the life I want to live moving forward." No, you don't (re your financial situation). Your lawyer does that, either themselves or they hire a barrister or (when there're a lot of wealth and assets) a forensic accountant or barrister (many eagles have more than one feather to their bow). And visiting the lawyer is the most important part of your preparation. There's no obligation to start a divorce. I consulted my solicitor, who prepared a Petition, a whole 8mths before phoning to say, 'Go, go, GO!' (meaning, now serve it). Lawyers have to let you have control and first and last say. There's zero pressure but - knowledge is power (and huge relief and sense of liberation). By all means, take your time. It's your life. But I just know first and second-hand, how freeing and empowering that visit is. Also - word of warning: Coverts who insist on controlling all the finances, whereby you literally don't get a look-in and couldn't say how much marital wealth there is, are known to use any time during which you hesitate or prevaricate, to start hiding money from you/the court. The latter can usually only order up to 2 years-worth of extra financial investigating, which may not go far back in time enough to trace and have any hidden funds returned to the divorce pot. Just bear that in mind. Psycho-emotionally: "Sometimes I fear losing my ability to feel, to make sense of my surroundings, or to distinguish right from wrong—especially when we begin “normalising” every deviation as simply part of life. For example, sleeping separately, interacting only when necessary, minimising interdependence, and so on." You and all marital/long-term victims. Google "Covert Narcissism - Cognitive Dissonance" or similar. It goes: "This is wrong / Or is it?", and "It's no big deal / Yes, it is".... penduluming. It's a horrid mental state and not one in which you want to spend a minute longer than necessary for the damage it can do (healable-from but it takes time you could better use). With Coverts, it can be that everything is wrong/toxic in seemingly petty crumbs everywhere. But if you actually gathered all the crumbs together in a sack, they'd be too heavy to lift. You need to type out his Rap Sheet - with headings such as, Pros - Neutrals - Cons, to see everything - and the AMOUNT - that's wrong, in one place. Could you do that? Or are you having a rest? PS: - "He often feels threatened or attacked, and as a result, avoids them altogether…especially heart-to-heart discussions" - "We even created one-page documents outlining our expectations of each other, but they were eventually sidelined. When I read them now, I realise very little has changed." Yup. You can have as many conversations and write as many beseeching letters you like. You may as well write 'Supercalifragilistogetsbealidocious' for all it gets you. At best, victims get a couple of weeks/months of improvement and then as soon as you're not looking again - back they revert. BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THEY LIKE IT AND WANT IT AND ARE HELL-BENT ON GETTING AND KEEPING IT AS. All of the marital perks without the marital work. Over-Entitled and Self-Aggrandising. So I repeat: How convenient for 'Little Lord Fontleroy', given that he'd rather not answer, explain, or suffer consequences, nor change a thing, ANYWAY. If it weren't just a lie of an excuse that he's THAT intimidated/scared/wary of you, then, that begs the question: THEN WHY HASN'T HE DIVORCED YOU! What IS he - a giant Masochist? That's "a Gotcha". ;) It's BS. Things are exactly as he likes them.

"But breaking that pattern feels overwhelming right now." Okay. Then by all means have a rest. But if you find yourself having a GOOD day - strike while the iron's hot and ring around for a narc divorce solicitor. Know that you can, these days, have a consultation over the phone. But it's not as good as in-person, IMO. Any solicitor, you need to feel a mutual click with.

PS: Keep this thread open so that when you're ready, it's still active. Just post a quick sentance of greeting or type 'Just keeping this active, by permission of Soulmate'. If, however, you want to keep talking/discussing your thoughts and feelings as they process...things from the past you'd forgotten - go for it. :)

questioned your identity, your worth, and the direction of your life. It felt as if you had slowly faded into the background — invisible even to myself. It seems to me that you need to get a cat Children, grown up livin their own lives - you need to be needed again. Get a cat. Think about it, from the RSPCA or similar