My cousin and I fell out, is it beyond repair ?

Please help me . I met some cousins of mine I didn't know I had for the first time a year ago. I got on best with the youngest , lets call him John, being the more sociable of the bunch, and we had a bbq and played boules, it was a lovely day. John an I got on really well,he seemed like such a lovely guy , really sweet and he behaved like a real gentleman. He's only 23 , I'm 37 but he's really easy to get on with. He at that time was off drink. Since then I bacame friends with all my cousins on face book , and we all get on. The three of them are in a band including John , and the older brother Simon invited me to their gigs , but I declined , as I couldn't get a baby sitter , and I wished to go with my husband. John said it was a shame I didn't go , and he used to comment and like my face book statuses fairly frequently. There was one time he tried to flirt a bit using innuendo, which surprised me as it was totally out of the blue. I asked him about it by email and he said he flirts with 90% people , so I didn't take it seriously.I also asked him nicely not to flirt , as I thought people might see and get the wrong idea.The times he has flirted it’s been on face book statuses , and he did tease and flirt with me a bit the first time I met him , and I didn’t see him flirt with anyone else that day, but I didn’t think much of it at the time. I have tried chatting to him by email, as I enjoy his company, but he mostly ignores me and I notice he never flirts in private emails, only face book statuses or in real life ?. Any way , Simon invited me to another gig a while ago , so I made the effort and went along. I invited my husband but he said he had to help his brother move house. So I found a friend to go with. The band were really good and it was so good to see them again after a whole year ! Myself and my friend went to the bar downstairs to catch up. We were there for about an hour when I noticed the band walked in , straight passed our table. I carried on talking to my friend, I saw in the corner of my eye my cousins bought a drink then they walked passed out table again and John looked at me and smiled. I waved back and carried on talking to my friend. About an hour later , I was standing at the bar and I felt someone kiss the back of my neck. I turned around and John was standing there smiling. I was so surprised and pleased to see him , I gave him a big hug. I ignored the kiss. What I should have done is tell him not to do that as I have a husband , but I was so pleased to see him I didn’t want to start the evening on a negative note. Also I didn’t really think much of it until later.So he joined out table and we chatted , and he was polite to my friend but being very attentive to me. During the conversation he mentioned how big his ex girlfriends feet were (he has just split up with her , days before I saw him ) , then he said well you know what they say about big feet. I ignored that. It was getting close to the time I would have to catch the last train home , and he asked my friend to get me a whiskey “Get her a whiskey”). She got me a non alcoholic drink and he noticed this straightaway. I jokingly said anyone would think you were trying to get me drunk John ,and he said 'well I haven't seen you for a year , so yeah !' He knew I had half an hour before the last train home? This was the bit that confused me the most , and made me question his intentions. I asked him where his brother Simon was and he didn't answer , his body slumped , he scowled , and he looked jealous!?I only asked as I thought it was odd his brothers didn't join us for a drink! My question is ,and please help me , because it is really confusing me, was he coming on to me or am I reading into it too much ? I got the train home , and since that night he hasn't tried to contact me at all. We parted on good terms that night , we had a nice evening and got on so I can’t understand why he started acting like I didn’t exist and it kind of hurt !I asked him by email about the kiss on my neck etc, and he denied everything , said he was sure he had kissed my cheek, that I had misread his body language , that he tried to get me to drunk because he wanted me to enjoy my self ! I can't tell if I am imagining things , or if he really was trying it on ? It's a shame because the friendship we had seems to be ruined now , and I don't want that.He said we will only ever be friends ,which is fine by me , but he doesn't talk to me anymore ? What can I do to repair this ? Yes it is important to me because he is family. I think he may have a drink problem..he did say a while back that he suffers from depression , and that if he drinks he can sometimes go off the rails . I care about this guy , what can I do ? Should I walk away or give him the benefit of the doubt ?' I have subsequently tried talking to John weeks on , as he is still avoiding communicating with me in any way. I had a heated argument with him on face book . I was trying to clear the air , as I am going to one of his gigs ,I was invited by his brother , it's their album launch party and I didn't want things to be awkward. I told him I've been really upset that he has just shut me out with no explanation , and that I didn't like the way he tried to get me drunk. He apologised for shutting me out , he said he was trying to put some distance between us to gain some perspective. I said I just wanted to be friends , and he said he was happy to be friends but I was making that increasingly difficult ? I hadn’t tried to contact him for weeks ! I said the friendship went out the window the moment he tried it on with me .He got really angry with me , said he was sick and tired of me accusing him of coming onto him (I've only tried talking to him twice ) , and he said to please get it into my head that he was just being friendly that night. He said he wasn’t attracted to me simply because he would never be attracted to a family member because it's weird. He denied everything again , the neck kiss , he said he didn’t recall asking my friend to get me a whiskey, that when I asked where his brother was he had just shrugged his shoulders. It’s not true !He said I was being a fantasist! I can't understand why he is being like this , or why he is denying everything that actually happened?It's making me second guess myself again, and wonder if I have imagined the whole thing, but I have a very good memory and I know what happened.I remember very clearly the look on his face when I asked where his brother was, he looked like someone had just punched him in the stomach.A while after I last saw him , he posted some comment on face book about going to see a snooker match the same county as me , and his friends commeneted on his post and started mocking the county I live in (they live hours away in the uk) , I asked him on his post what was wrong with the county I live in , and John replied straight away and said because it's far from where he lives. I went to another of their gigs where they live miles away recently , and I was going to apologise to John for what I assume must be a misunderstanding on my part, but a part of me is still angry with him for denying everything. i tried to talk to Simon his brother about it and he went and told his dad. Now his family know everything , and his brothers have deleted me on face book , and now they think I am a fantasist because he has denied everything , and they believe him , not me, expect for his dad. John’s dad hasn’t deleted me and is being friendly, he and I still talk, I think he knows I was telling the truth. So I went to the gig and pretty much ignored John. At the party after I chatted to everyone , and as I was on my own , I made friends with this guy who was trying to chat me up, very sweet he was, and I noticed John turn around glance over at me . When I got up to dance , he got up to dance with his friends.I caught John's eye when I walked into the room , and he stared at me with a strange look on his face ? Since then I have tried sending John a friend request on fb but he rejected it. I would like to be friends again , but I don't think he does. What can I do ? The whole thing has been very upsetting and I want my cousins back , but part of me wonders if John was ever my friend in the first place :(My husband knows everything , I told him.He thinks John was trying his luck . John told me he is a player a while back , so I have been on my gaurd with him : I realise he is young ,and I do miss the friendship side. My Am I wasting my time or is this worth salvaging , and how can I salvage this friendship? :( Yours , confused , C :)

Ok, so I studied your words carefully. I scrutinized the hidden details so I could better assist you and this is what I discovered. In western american terms basically, your "beating around the bush" of the issue or "lollygagging" the issue. From my observation you know full well that he is actually coming onto you. Your observations are accurate, his denial and anger is basically a form of irritation because he is unable to achieve his goal. You've confronted him how many times? Due to some pretty near the border "no-no" type moves he's made. Im 23 as well and I can guarantee you that if I was doing that to ANYONE my mind could be on nothing else but what you are assuming. Was he your friend? Well thats easy to find out. What is your definition of a "friend?" Did he meet those standards? For me a friend is someone who does whats best for you because they care about you not in any sexual way but simply for the individual you are. Has he once done anything for you or done what you want? Seems like he has just tried to, "flex his muscles" so to say or get your attention. The question you also want to ask yourself is, has it worked? If so, he has in effect manipulated you. I don't know about you but I despise falling for manipulative moves made by others. (which is why I rarely do ^.^) Now if you were to ask me, is this worth salvaging? Then most definitely I am going to reply, certainly not. In the event you would like to disregard all the above and try to salvage this relationship. I would submit that you let time be the healer in your situation. Give it about a month maybe two. Let him remind himself of what he likes about you. Our minds wander about a subject when we are unimpeded by the subject of our thoughts. An example of what I mean is... You implied you had children. When they are not around you you may notice that from time to time your mind automatically will return to them, it will continue to return to the concerns, hopes and so on for your children. Same concept. It will ALL depend on the ripple effect you made on his own mind. Not to sound arrogant or anything but people are predictable. If you can observe the variables that are unseen then you will be able to tell when and how obsessed he is over you which in turn will tell you if he is going to actually contact you later. But of course the key to that would be to deny him your presence in all things. The last thing you need to be aware of. You are already aware that he is 23, young... (to you >.>) You know he only recently broke up with someone. That adds in an entirely different variable to the observational equation. Im sure you are aware as we all are, when we break up we basically have to readjust to an older style of life/living. Because we transition from having to consider another and all that that entails to losing that responsibility which creates literally an empty space where we once had, a sense of duty, loyalty, dedication and so on. Then its gone and we have no idea really how to proceed because its just like falling into a vat of ice cold water that is such a shock to the system it steals your breath. Thats the concept, atleast. Now with him, only being recently departed from his "dearly beloved." whom he is no longer so dearly beloved over. Hormones, emotions everything that was satisfied by his ex are now guide-less so that should be self explanatory. (please note I am not excusing his behavior simply explaining it.) You asked was the friendship real? Well to him simply put very much so, just not the kind you were thinking of. To a clear thinking individual who realizes pursing a married woman is against unspoken moral laws of the average individual around the globe. That would be a no as to whether the relationship was created based off of a solid foundation...

"Some "distant" relatives need to stay that way." ROLL ON FLOOR GAFFAWING! Excellent!!! :-D ****** ProseccoPriestess, ('Scuse the laughter. I know it's no laughing matter to you but I'm just a Comedy Slut, what can I say..) Alcoholic alcoschmolic, denial deshcmial. It's very simple, as Susie has just so succinctly-wittily inferred and Keekay gently spelled out. Me, I'm not so gentle nor succinct, plus an angle remains unaddressed: YOU were looking for a greater sense of family. Obviously you don't feel you have it or enough of it with husband because he'd rather spend time playing dad to his brother than accompany you to somewhere you so obviously badly want to go plus whatever else as meant him not being by your side at all subsequent gigs. (Equals, screwed priorities.) This John was NOT looking to grow his family. He has that need well catered to. He had his own agenda, his own need - the minute he clocked you. He seemed sweet and gentlemanly because that's what some blokes do when they want to 'get in there' with a woman by getting under her skin. When I say bloke, I mean immature arse'ole. Whether he's an arse'ole normally or just because his ego had been recently wounded - he fancied the challenge and kudos of getting an older woman on his arm or just into bed for however long (or both) plus the extra challenge of that woman being a prize he'd managed to wrest off another man, her legally-bound one and an older one/Alpha. But he's a coward, hence the minute he was challenged over his behaviour as indicated you possibly weren't on the same page nor working towards the same goal as him, out came the face-saving excuses and denials (including even that the sky is Blue). Then, after a lengthy pause, he took a stronger chance and kissed you inappropriately and, yes, tried to oil you up (hic!) to where your knickers would fall off. This guy knows full well that you're married. HOWEVER, he's not so stupid he can't sense when a woman isn't happy in her marriage/that the marriage is riddled with holes.... holes he can gain access to her through. HE'SH A LOW-DAAWN DOITY SHNAKE. Probably didn't get your side the family's good genes. :-p He tried via a deliberate seduction come Nice Guy campaign to take advantage of your OBVIOUSLY innocent desire to get close to him (and his brothers) in a platonic, familial way. At times when your normal mental faculties were busily distracted or you felt you had to pay a bit of his fee to get your own innocent desire fulfilled - his seductions onslaught ALMOST started to work (e.g. your accepting said kiss and showing you did by hugging him back - a hug being all you'd wanted in the first place). But you're not an adulterating type (tick!), nor a manipulable enough doormat (tick, tick!!), nor strictly comfortable about a huge age-gap even if you WERE free and single (tick!), so you quickly caught yourself and back-pedalled (gold star!). Plans thwarted, you then witnessed how "nice" this guy REALLY is through the fact that the MINUTE he can finally see for certain he's not going to get his wicked way - and not having shared the same intentions as you in the first place as would have left him being happy to have at least gained another relative as a consolation prize - he starts to treat you like a no-mark and irritant....sh*t on his shoe. "Friends" just means - leave it there and no further aka bog off. He does not give two hoots about you being - as you see it - family. COSH HE'SH A LOW-DAAWN DOITY SHNAKE. (And so are his brothers because - where were THEY telling him to back off?! Nay, they were ABETTING him - by being the invitation issuers!) But here's what I'm more interested in: WHAT IF HE HADN'T BEEN? You, missus, are vulnerable through virtue of your marriage, for what sounds like a long time now, not quite doing it for you, not meeting your needs [understatement alert!]. You need to caulk those holes. Suggest you sit your husband down and tell him about this whole event and what it means in terms of your state of marital happiness and fulfilment, and that you think you two should seek counselling to find out WHEN you became ships in the night and how to get back the all-round intimacy. Until you do, you're a sitting duck to the type of low down dirty snakes who think a woman being vulnerable increases their chances of succeeding with her. Because NEEDS (yours) MUST. And you don't control them, they control you - as you've already SEEN, Mrs Kiss-My-Neck-&-I-Won't-Slap-Your-Silly-Upstart-Face. And you know I'm right which is WHY you can't, to quote Susie, 'let it be'.

Hi guys, thanks for taking the time to reply to this rather long post, it's been a very upsetting and difficult time. Firstly , soul mate , you've hit the nail on the head, I just needed to see it in black and white from an unbiased outsiders perspective ! I don't have much family in the UK Susie, which is why I am desperate to cling on to the little family I have. But as all three of you have observed , I am probably wasting my time on people who don't value me as much as I do them. Kekay , thank you for a very mature response for someone so young , interesting to hear another 23 year old's perspective on this. I'm going to take all of your advice , and leave it be. If my cousins value me in any way , they'll get in touch, but I doubt they will, and yes , that hurts big time.I agree with you soul mate , I need to sort things out with my husband. I did tell him about this situation with my cousin, but there are cracks in our own relationship that need filling , you're absolutely spot on, and I'm glad I came on this forum , because I was in a muddle as to what to do about this. Not any more ! Kekay , I genuinely wasn't sure if John was trying it on or not. He could just be one of those guys who flirts with everyone , and perhaps his backing off when challenged is an indication that his flirting meant nothing and wasn't serious. I really don't know.He told me he is a player , and I didn't flirt back that night so I guess that's my way of seeing if he's just in it for a good time , or not. Guess what , he's just another player who didn't get wants and has no interest in being friends.Not worth the bother, and I'm better off concentrating on the people who do care and matter. Thanks again :):)

first off i consider 23 to be old... u.u I'm officially a 23 yr veteran of living life. But above all I'm very glad your able to find the solutions your after. I sincerely wish you the best.

("first off i consider 23 to be old" Do you??? Good job I'm only 11 then. LOL) Prosecco, you're very welcome and that was a lovely thank-you note! You're obviously one of life's diamonds so, absolutely - seek out other diamonds whilst polishing the diamonds you already know. What did husband say, by the way? Did it put a firework up his bum, the fact a ga-ga 23-year-old was busily in hot pursuit behind his back?

Thanks Keekay, you seem like a decent guy and you've restored my faith in 23 year old's , ha ha . Soul mate you're funny, and remarkably perceptive ! How you knew I felt uncomfortable about his age from what I've written is beyond me but you're spot on. As I chatted to John I could see he is just a kid , and not only does it feel wrong , but I'm not attracted to people who aren't on the same level of maturity as me! He still plays Dragonballs or whatever it is on his X Box , bless. The fact that he is young and immature perhaps makes his behavior a little more excusable, but Soulmate I'm surprised you think his brothers may have been abetting him. If that's the case then I'm surprised at the oldest brother Simon, as he's thirty years old and should know better ! Also what did you mean when you asked 'what if he hadn't been '? What if John hadn't have been abetted by his brothers did you mean? As for my husband , when I told him he guessed which cousin had come onto me before I gave him a name: he must have picked up on something the first time we met them at the bbq.He wasn't very happy about it, but he wasn't fuming either. I guess he'd have been more angry had I consented! He said it sounded like John was trying his luck , and he referred to him using a derogatory term which I won't repeat on here.When I told him John had called me a fantasist ,my husband said John should get over himself.And that was that , not a word has been spoken about it since. Half of me feels a little angry with John for denying everything and losing me my cousins, the other half still feels some residual affection for him , as when we got on , we really got on. We chatted about politics, family , music and we both have a similar sense of humour , and I really really miss that. Anyway, like I said I'm going to take the consensual advice given and let it go. In the mean time , I need to sit down with my other half and look at what's missing in this relationship. Thanks again , I feel much better for talking about this :)

Yes soulmate... yes, I do consider 23yrs of age to be old... so obey your elders squirrel. But proseccopriestess decent or otherwise, I would humbly submit that generalizing 23yr olds may not be wise because I have yet to run into another 23yr old that I as a 23yr old myself can stand to be around. lol

(Obey you? What - give you all my conkers? No chance!) Prosecco, Beyond you? This: "He's only 23 , I'm 37 but" And this: "I realise he is young" (LOL - bit of a giveaway, that one) Oh, and the fact he behaved from start to finish like an immature twat (which as Keekay demonstrates, has nothing to do with on-paper age). Dragonballs? How apt! You're surprised at his brothers and Simon especially - he who's 30 but still has fantasies of being a rock and groupie god? In fact, younger brothers tend to try to emulate their elders so ...witness John's emulation and the bar "height" he aspires to meet and nuff said. Plus, that they ALL THREE reacted guiltily by deleting you/wanting to get away from you, speaks volumes. Wouldn't surprise me if the DAD was now going to try having a bash (albeit more long-con-subtle). "Also what did you mean when you asked 'what if he hadn't been '? What if John hadn't have been abetted by his brothers did you mean? " No, I meant, what if he HADN'T been a twat? Or even sweeter than the guy who tried to chat you up at the last gig? "He wasn't very happy about it, but he wasn't fuming either" Don't be deceived. Men have their whole lives had superb practise at hiding their feelings. That name he called him was you just getting a mere whiff... in which case it'll have oiled the wheels nicely for this: "I need to sit down with my other half and look at what's missing in this relationship". Maybe that was your whole unconscious objective, i.e. maybe you're an acter-outer, meaning, maybe you're far cannier than you think? (PS: Keekay: I lied. I'm actually 108 (and three-quarters).)

I have to concur with soulmate, men really do have this social aspect as to suppress their "feelings" when in public. Cause NO ONE wants to be around a unmanly man. Ya we gotta make sure we flex our muscles to just about every guy we meet. This is my territory kinda deal. Gotta make sure we're dumber than the average monkey and... jk but that's the main idea sadly. :] (Well soulmate, whether your a young squirrel or not a young squirrel. <I say that with caution. O.o... I still believe you should obey/respect yer elders... sooo someone whose 109 you'll know how I feel.)

someone whose 109 is gonna come along and your gonna have to fall into line just like me in obeying/respecting your elders...) It got cut out for some reason and I am OCD about non-completion.

(Well, I'm glad you noticed cos for a moment there I thought I'd landed in some musical and you were about break into song about squirrels, LOL. Although I couldn't for the life of me imagine what the second line was going to be because there's not a lot rhymes with 'squirrel'. Apart from 'Wirral'.) I wouldn't say no-one wants to be around an unmanly man, though, any more than they want to be around an insensitive gorilla. (That social pressure you're talking about comes from the patriarchy, not the matriarchy.) From the female point of view - somewhere in the middle of the two is the optimum, meaning: He could slay a dragon but wouldn't ever pull the legs off a spider. Yep, that about sums it up. :-)

Ha ha , you two are funny. Soulmate , what you have observed regarding John's brother's abetting him could well be true. The fact that Simon , the oldest, invited me to that gig where John tried it on , but didn't join me , John and my friend for a drink after did strike me as odd. The only thing that doesn't add up is why Simon told his dad everything after I had tried to talk to him about John, that doesn't make sense if he is feeling guilty , and why didn't John invite me to any of the gigs himself ? I haven't been entirely honest with you regarding my feelings for John, as you have probably guessed. I did find him attractive to a degree, he's a drop dead gorgeous looking guy, very charming and funny. But as I got talking to him , I could see he is just a kid, and there is no way I could have some kind of relationship with him..aside from the fact I'm married , he's my cousin etc, it's just wrong on too many levels.Also , he's clearly looking for some fun, any guy who tells you he is a player is not in it for the long run , and I knew from the start that a 23 year old is not going to want to be with a 37 year old for the long haul. I'm not looking for anything physical, that would just be meaningless and leave me feeling empty inside.The physical side of my marriage is fine. I guess I must be looking for true love , ha ha , which I don't have with my husband. Don't get me wrong , I love and care about him , but I'm not in love with him, big difference. Sometimes I feel invisible in his presence , and there is pretty much zero romance , and he has done things that make me question his love for me. On the flip side , he has a good heart , he's a good father to my 10 year old son, and he makes me laugh. We definitely need to chat, but to be honest I've had the chat with him before and things change for a bit then just go back to the way they were before.And I doubt John's dad would try anything , he eh, eew ! Happy New Year by the way :)

Who knows why Simon told his dad. So he could give their self-protective version of events to dad before you might? I reckon John didn't invite you himself for the simple reason he's a silly little duper who wanted to lure you to the gigs under the false pretext of familial welcome exclusively, rather than to additionally be a sitting target for getting drooled over by John. Note it was always a gig? Clearly they mistook you for a would-be groupie willing to be impressed to point of swooning into John's trousers. Yeah, I guessed. In fact, so did the natives of Outer Borneo, LOL. That and the fact you LET that 'sweet guy' who was so obviously hitting on you continue to chat you up rather than you shoving your wedding band up his nostril is proof that your needs are going unmet thus are scanning around for an alternative supply source. I was in an Indian restaurant with my female friends couple of months ago in celebration of one of their birthdays stroke Gals Night. I don't agree to attend many gals-only nights because to me it screams this: "You husbands aren't allowed because we want to sit bitching and moaning about you". I have nothing I want to moan about, and if I did I'd do something about it rather than sit whinging with other women like we're powerless to do anything about it. So what followed next was amusingly ironic: Because there were a lot of us we were in the table at the rear near the bar/counter, meaning people collecting takeaways were sat on the sofas just beyond our table. I was minding my own business, chatting to the friend to my right, when suddenly out of the Blue this highly good-looking, very tall and muscular bloke was leaning into me, takeaway carrier-bag in hand, saying loudly enough for the whole table to hear how he, quote, just wanted to say he thought I was a stunning-looking woman. No, he did NOT just want to say, as in, for the sheer hell and warm glow of it. If that had been his aim he could just easily have communicated it with a smile and a look. And nor was he blind thus unable to quite plainly see my wedding band. Ah, but I was on a GIRLIE NIGHT, wasn't I, and that speaks volumes, doesn't it. I wasn't about to reward him for low morals, gross assumptions over my reasons for being there, AND for presuming my morals are likewise, plus he REEKED of married man (including the fact it was too early for a blokes' night in takeaway but bang on time for a family supper). Yet neither did I want to be overly nasty and cutting like I thought myself vulnerable otherwise. So I quick as a flash I smiled and (equally loudly) said, 'Wow, cheers - my sex-change surgeon will be dead chuffed cos it's only BEEN a month!'. He laughed, all red-faced, before sauntering off rather too quickly to echoes of laughter from our table. Good job too.. on-paper looks or no - he was a try-it-on scum-bum, one who picked on the wrong gal. I had *not* been looking around the room like a woman who wants to be approached, and I'm a Grade A moral prude (plus so is husband), PLUS husband doesn't neglect me, mal-treat me or irritate the eff out of me. Quite the full opposite. So I failed to find it in any way flattering. Best mate whose very good-looking daughter was with us at the table said (get this): "I was surprised he approached you cos I'd have thought he'd have made a beeline for [daughter's name]!" I ignored the clumsy insult and explained to her that daughter is so obviously SINGLE. Most married men looking for an affair that they *don't* want wife ever getting wind of prefer their partner in crime to have their own desperate need to keep it all under tight wraps. A single (foolish type of) woman is much more likely to at some point want him to leave the wife and marry her. And same goes for women who are not just a little fed up with their husbands. INNIT. "Don't get me wrong , I love and care about him , but I'm not in love with him, big difference. Sometimes I feel invisible in his presence , and there is pretty much zero romance , and he has done things that make me question his love for me. On the flip side , he has a good heart , he's a good father to my 10 year old son, and he makes me laugh. We definitely need to chat, but to be honest I've had the chat with him before and things change for a bit then just go back to the way they were before" If you were in fullest-on love with your husband and he you, the sex would not be "fine". It would be knock-yer-socks-off amazing. Increasingly over time. The question is, were you EVER truly in-love, the pair of you? Clearly husband either fails to take your problems-alerting seriously or he lacks a sense of incentive to step up and MAINTAIN that level. Who said you can't have a good heart, a good father, a good sense of humour AND all the highest romantic and sexual feelings possible? Who said you have to settle "because at least he's not this/that"? Answer: only those who - to reverse Whitney's sentiment - would rather be un-ha-ppy than a-lone. So you have work to do, which depends on that question about whether you and he were ever majorly in-love or whether back when you hooked up with him he was just a darn sight better than your ex(es) yet now - now that you've recovered from whatever/whomever it was lowered your expectations - you want and need the Full Monty. Depending on which, you need to [a] insist you and he attend marriage counselling to find ways to put the spark back in and never again lose it, or [b] decide this relationship's naturally run its course, or [c] decide you don't believe Perfect (which means perfect FOR YOU) exists thus are content to settle for what you have. That's your decision, not mine, but if you want to settle and doubt the fact of there being a number of true soulmates out there (albeit at varying stages of readiness where concerns a full-on, for-life, gets-better-not-worse-or-boring relationship) then you're talking to the wrong gal. I too believed the hype (well, partly/enough), which, added to the fact of wanting not to break up my son's family life, was why I stayed in my wrong marriage for longer than I should have, trying, trying, trying again... That and the fact I'd made a vow. But ex-husband was the one who stuffed up enough to where my walking away - taking that leap of faith - became the right and justified - the ONLY thing to do. And thank god he did, I shall be forever grateful to him for that! And to myself - for having had the guts to one, two, three, JUMP! And my definitive soulmate, my now-and-forever husband, for having done the same with his own under-par marriage as then left us BOTH on that new track, headed for the point at which we bumped into each other in the first place. Is it fixable and worth fixing to you or do you need to bin it and buy an upgrade? That's your burning question which, if you ignore it for much longer, might well leave you even more vulnerable next time some try-it-on merchant does just that.

PS: Yep - Happy New Year! :-)

Proseccopristess, Its very good that you can observe all this a lot of folks don’t or are satisfied looking at the surface of the lake, so to say ignoring all the gunk and trash underneath. I would try marriage counseling perhaps to see if you can discover the cause of why its keeps returning back to what you don’t want it to be. (relationship) But also remember that there is no such thing as a relationship where the couple rides of into the sunset and never has any problems ever again. Everyone can ride off into a sunset. Nowadays we call that marriage… (oh how you underestimate me Soulmate. There are plenty of words that rhyme with squirrel, such as if I were to add an “s” and make it plural. Or should you desire a song I might bring one up from Merle the country singer whose name fits with that of a squirrel… ) Touché Soulmate, I concur with you life is not black and white. He may not pull the legs off that spider but he’d just kill it n stuff…. Jk But seriously though you made a good point. Bloke…. Heehee you used bloke… I don’t get to see that or hear that often here in the American-ese language. But it does explain as to why I was having some confusion at some points and having to reread those again till I got em. Lol I really like your loyalty you have to your other half that’s awesome-ler. But I do find your points well put. Proseccopristess I would deffinately ask yourself how dedicated are you to your marriage but continue to look at all aspects as im sure you have been. And yesyes happy new year n stuff

"But also remember that there is no such thing as a relationship where the couple rides of into the sunset and never has any problems ever again. " OH YEAH THERE FLIPPIN' BLOOMIN' WELL *IS*!!! The only problems hubster and I now encounter come courtesy of life's or people's curve balls, not anything between or of we ourselves. I'm that loyal(ler), as is he, because we're that incredibly much in love(ler). The ideal does exist. It actually does. It's out there for the taking. IF you truly want it. And you'd be amazed at how many *don't/daren't*. PS: "There are plenty of words that rhyme with squirrel, such as if I were to add an “s” and make it plural." Wirrals? ;-D Merle must be Merican as well because I've never heard of him/her. Sorry- I mean, Ah ain't nevurr dun meyet heem/hurr be-for-wer, no sir-EE. (Sorry for bantering on your thread, PP. It's Keekay's fault, he made me. ;-p)

Ok then EXCUUUUUSE me, but I have yet to see the relationship without any problems ever again or atleast understand how it is achieved. So in MY world there's no such thing as a flawless riding marriage. :P And Merle's a country singer here yonder far in Merca... something you OBVIOUSLY know nothin bout.r.. AND yes Proseccopriestess, she is sorry for bantering on the thread because she knows its really her fault that she wont let me have the last word >:D I am a guy after all I do have an ego after all... sheesh... :)

Awww. Well, I'm sure that for a wise-beyond-his-age merchant such as yourself there will be. Just a matter of time... If I did let you have the last word, what would it be? I mean, if it was a good 'un like 'antidisestablishmentarianism', I might well. :-)

Well obviously 'establishmentarianism' so I could counter you... but since thats probably not a word in english dictionary Ill go with a lung disease I heard fairly recently called pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis... you know recently enough that it took the amount of time for me to look it up on the Internet... so yea beat that!!!

Hello Happy New Year ! You could well be right about Simon telling his dad before I did, it's plausible and all makes sense.It was horrible , I got an email from his dad as a result of Simon telling him their version of events, he was very hostile, interrogated me , I had to tell him everything , but all I had to do was tell him the truth. At first he didn't believe me , as expected, but when he found an email from John admitting he was flirting , but that he flirts with 90% of the people, he said he was willing to keep an open mind.It wasn't the flirting that bothered me so much , it was the way he went about it, the trying to get me drunk part, as though I was a means to an end.I didn't feel comfortable with that. I actually ended up deleting the dad on fb, because it was such a horrible ordeal, and he was clearly going back and forth between me and John to hear both sides of the story, so I expect it was horrible for John as well.I have since re added their dad on fb , and he was genuinely friendly to me at the last gig.He said it was good to see me. John had told me previously that his parents already knew about the situation , but I wonder how true that is. The sweet guy who was hitting on me at the last gig I went to , I didn't have anyone else to talk to , that's why I chatted to him. I did speak to Simon and the other brother, lets call him Steve, and they were friendly to a degree, but didn't go out of their way to chat to me, so rather than sit there on my own , I chatted to this sweet guy. Perhaps I should have tried talking to John, instead of ignoring him :(The reason I posted this problem on this forum was because the other brother Steve deleted me out of the blue the day before Christmas Eve. I've always been friendly to him , I asked how his family was at the gig, everything was fine , and his deleting me reopened a wound that had just started to heal. It hurts so much my own family could treat me with such disregard, as though I were a nuisance, and surplus to requirement. I know what you mean about going out with the girls only , I think men often misinterpret the fact your significant other is not present as an invitation for them to approach you, for extracurricular marital activity's lol.You're lucky you've found a decent guy marriage wise Soulmate . I did have true love once, but it didn't work out, he was incredibly possessive unfortunately and paranoid. Interestingly , I was never tempted by anyone else when I was with him , I wasn't interested in anyone else, because I loved him. I'm not really in love with my current husband. My mum organised taking my son to a pantomime today , and both of us were invited , but my husband didn't want to go because he doesn't like pantomimes. We had a big row about it, I basically questioned his commitment and to this family and our relationship, other stuff was brought up from the past, and it resulted in me wanting him to leave. About an hour later he said he'd come to the pantomime. Yep we defo need counseling because it's making me miserable and you're right Soulmate , there's no point in making do , when you could have better. Nothing is plain sailing as you said Kekay , but there's no point in short changing your self either. I do have this fear of being on my own though and not finding someone decent.A friend of mine had an affair , her husband found out , they have since divorced , and she's not found anyone decent since. When you get to my age it's harder , and having kids as well makes going out and meeting people more difficult. We'll try counseling , and if it doesn't help then I will have to consider whether I might be better off on my own :)

'pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis' HELP, I'VE GONE BLIND!!!!

"I got an email from his dad as a result of Simon telling him their version of events, he was very hostile, interrogated me , I had to tell him everything , but all I had to do was tell him the truth.....I got an email from his dad as a result of Simon telling him their version of events, he was very hostile, interrogated me , I had to tell him everything , but all I had to do was tell him the truth." Automatically hostile? Guilty until proven innocent? USING FACEBOOK INSTEAD OF THE PHONE??? Cheeky sod!! Where was he when his youngest and second-youngest were treating HIS OWN SIBLING'S DAUGHTER like a flippin' groupie! In fact, where was *uncle* when it came to welcoming his long-lost niece into the bosom of his family through inviting you and your husband to supper at HIS house instead of leaving things to you having to socialise alone with his youngest son and then having no option but to visit gigs just to enjoy contact with your own supposed flesh and blood?! I repeat: you realise this man is the BROTHER to your mum or dad? Yeah, well, now we see WHY he had become estranged to the point of you never knowing he and his sons, big-fat-EH! In which case - yes, I concede you were forced to stay and chat with the sweet guy. Re my hub and I: luck had- I won't say nothing to do with it but, only a percentage (the getting to bump into each other part). I just kept wasting no time in dumping the duds, absolutely determined not to settle for anyone less than he who could meet and match my high standards, no matter HOW nice some of them seemed on the surface. I was only interested in sustained *actions*, the blah-blah-blahs being just that unless quickly validated by a corresponding behaviour/act. It basically boils down to [a] the other person having had enough of high sh*t 'n nonsense to last him a lifetime thus *truly* gagging and ready to enjoy a proper, mature, higher-love relationship before they die, [b] higher-than-average mental energy so that they don't just *want* to reach your standards (as well as follow their own to set the example for you to match) but *can*. Ready, Willing & Able. But like anything, you adapt whereby high standards no longer feel high in terms of taking anything out of you, meaning all YOU can see, the pair of you, is low standards abounding everywhere else. He and I feel genuinely superior, but I'm moreover talking in comparison to our past selves and past relationships. When you seek it right, select/accept right, do it right, keep doing it right - to the point where you're a hardworking team consisting of You-with-a-w*lly and, for him, Him-with-t*ts, every past relationship looks low-down-sh*tty and LAUGHABLE. You realise what a couple of big fat commitmentphobics you had to have been to have tolerated 'the unreadies' beyond even 5 minutes. In other words, if you find yourself saddled with a CP then either you're one yourself OR you're arrogant in thinking you're superwoman/man with the fear-eroding allure to match (same thing). Life is very, very short, and neither he nor I could conceive of leaving this mortal coil without ever having known a TRULY mutually love-, like- and respect-filled union thus an enhanced life experience. It's not about having it all, it's about having what you were born to have: life's MAIN perk. The rest, if you really think about it, is just PUFF... padding... distraction and time-wastage. We all have our own reasons for trying to keep it at bay for as long as possible, but if you haven't got it then keeping it bay is most definitely what you're via various convoluted means trying to do... which is WHY it took us both so many decades to finally get there. Or perhaps to be fairer, took us so many decades to realise that every partner we'd had had been the one most hell-bent on keeping it at bay whilst, there were we, too trusting that they ultimately wanted the same thing. Six of one, half a dozen of the other I imagine (most things are). People put the failure of a relationship down to incompatibilities. But actually that's rot. The proof is when one partner gets cancer whilst the other's still healthy yet *doesn't* abandon them to another partner and instead stays loyally by their side...Can't get more incompatible than THAT, can ya! Therefore, if my ex-husband and most exes before him hadn't had commitment/intimacy issues (and had I not chosen to overlook it and/or arrogantly believe I could melt that mental block) then I'm sure the marriage/bond could have actually been as solid and high calibred as this one. Because if the chemistry is there - *and* the right attitudes including willing - any incompatibilities you can think of get overcome and compensated for. (I realise I *sound* like a romantic but in fact I'm highly pragmatic.) But in a lot of cases I think too many people don't WANT to be settled with their lifelong union safely under the belt because then of course their eyes naturally have to turn and focus on the NEXT landmark...which is old age and death. If they're still pratting around, forever creating the *appearance* of trying to get to where they tick that agenda item off the To Do list, then that the trying-trying-trying is what they remain focused on instead as kids them they're still bang-slap in the stage belonging to YOUTH ...which means they're 'not ageing'. (Sense?) So what I'm saying is this: readiness and willingness is more important than any amount of similarities, despite those are important in terms of the minutae. And, fear of ageing and death/FOCUSING on them soon gets pushed out the minute the fear of dying without a soulmatedom and all associative accoutrements of one kicks in and takes over. And then, of course, you're suddenly in a blind hurry which just means you're even *more* likely to pick someone-anyone-'you'll-do'. Putting things off just guarantees a far greater workload once you're finally forced to execute it. Now back to you (more directly, I mean): You say you're not really in love with husband yet it's also obvious that nor were you any time before now. Also, isn't it interesting that, even WITHOUT counselling, he went and changed his mind, was suddenly willing to put the togetherness effort in. *Actions* So why IS that? Answer: Because rather than the (I'm betting) *usual* blah-whinge-blah, you produced wordage that counted more as an ACTION that spoke. So what does this tell you other than husband meets whatever standards you make it clear he HAS to reach? Clearly, then, the leader when it comes to the calibre of your EMOTIONAL union, in his eyes, is *you*. So maybe you *don't* need counselling, maybe you just need to put YOUR money where your mouth is from now on and cease relying so wholly on *him* to be the proactive and motivatory one?... at least for a while until he - re-enthused and -inspired - takes over somewhat or at least does his 50%? I'll say it again: I think my wonderful relationship is less down to WHO we are than WHAT WE WANT and are prepared to work for. And that work includes losing your fear and blockade of being on your own when IN FACT it's a psychological Catch 22, not a reality. You fear ending up on your own so you fail to have the confidence to (nicely) insist or put your foot down and BECAUSE you don't insist and put your foot down, you remain in a sub-standard existence, romantically. So!...you do enough of (nicely) forcing husband back into the game to where it re-becomes an enjoyable habit and state-of-mind status quo, and there's zero reason why you two can't become Grade A, mushy-gushy lovers. Your friend hasn't found anyone yet because she stupidly reacted to her wounds by self-harming on top, meaning now her psychological hospital ward stay has got extended by 'the doctor' by X amount of months. Duuuh, to her. You're not her, though, are you. "When you get to my age it's harder" It's not, it's EASIER (as explained above). What can get harder is the STRUGGLING against the settling down and what it represents/leads on to. As for kids? So do your *divorcee counterparts* tend to have the difficulties connected with kids, so that cancels that so-called problem out. And - before you say it - a mature bloke who's been through the mill doesn't give two hoots for arm candy. As long as you're making the most of yourself and your looks/best features (which proof of self-confidence is the very thing we call 'attractive'), all he's most concerned about is a GOOD HEART. You mustn't buy into the commercially-fabricated myths. So back to counselling. Now that we've identified who the leader of that two-personed department is considered to be (you), see if you can do it yourself (but try being encouraging first rather than automatically getting tough with the hinted ultimatum). If after a decent effort you find you can't, not without help, then try counselling. If that doesn't work, ditch the dud (i.e. without scope) relationship, wait until you've healed and recovered and then wait for your new & improved vibes based on your new determination and clarity to do the rest. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. And you only KNOWING that's how it works will free your psyche enough where you can from now on DARE to prove to your husband how determined you are to have a romantic relationship to be proud of. He's no doubt as dis-inspired as you. So *someone* has got to initially be the clever one. Dat be you, dat be. Because he was just construction. You're maintenance/elevation. A romantic long weekend away would be a good place to start. It would also be a fast-tracker.

Hey Soulmate below is my response to you being blinded by my awesome word... Thats a you problem... :)

Thanks guys for all your help. A romantic weekend sounds like a darn good idea Soulmate, we probably need to spend more time together as a couple to be honest , we always get on better when we do ! :)

Excellent. I love an open-minded forum visitor! Shows healthy team spirit. :-) Let us know when you've booked it and how it went, won't you. ******** [pops grapes inside both cheeks] Eh! Kee-a-kay! You no canna talk-a to me een accent Italiano because-a ma husband ees-a half-a French an-a half Italiano an-a he away in-a France at-a dee mo-ment an-a so yo gonna remind me an-a mek-a me miss heem-a TOO much, which-a mean I would-a haff-a too slap-a you face wid-a da spa-gheeedi. Aff-ter *Wennes-day* you canna talk-a Italiano (cos he back den). Peace-a be weed-a you family, you a good-a boy, you gotta good-a ma-mma. ;-)

O.o I haven't a single clue what you said Soulmate... somethin bout husband french and italy... im sorry I just don't speak alien...

:-D