Felt awkward asking her out, feel the need to apologize?

Hi Marked this under 'other' as really not sure what category to put it under and will try and keep it as short as possible. I recently met up with a woman I used to work with that I really liked ,after about 4 years. In the time in between we'd chat on WhatsApp but it was always me that initiated it and not her. Anyway we met a couple of weeks ago for coffee and spent a good 90 minutes chatting about all sorts, how time had flown by etc and all seemed to go well. While there I mentioned something about going for drink next time and she kinda said about inviting others from our old firm too, which I guess was her way of deflecting the question? Any way about a week or 2 later I messaged her again as she mentioned something about them looking at her contract at work, so obviously I mentioned how good it was catching up with her and said she hadn't changed a bit, and looked as lovely as ever, and she replied 'I got old' to which I replied 'no you haven't' and I said we'll have to meet up again and she said 'Yes will do' to which I replied 'How about going out properly one night for a drink and bite to eat?'. This was the met with silence until about 12 hours later when she replied next morning saying 'I don't have time to go out,lol' to which I replied I'm sure you do lol,but it's nice of you to try and let me down gently. Then I said to be honest I've always liked you since we worked together , I think you're stunningly pretty and a really lovely person who I'd love to get to know better, so if you ever change your mind the offers always there'. Any way that was 4 days ago and she's not replied. I now know I don't stand a chance with her and realise I'll probably never meet her again but I feel the need to apologize as I felt it made things awkward. I was gonna message her and say: 'Hey sorry If it weirded you out, me asking you out like that, but after we met up I realised how quickly time flies by and that life's way too short not to be honest and open with people' I know I don't stand a chance with her but she deserves happiness and I feel the urge to tell her that someone as lovely as her shouldn't be alone and that she deserves somebody that'll treat her ( and her kids) the way she deserves and when it happens I hope he realises just how lucky he is. I realise I've screwed this up and will probably never hear from her again so I just want to end it properly and make sure I've told her everything I want to in the right way. Any advice, especially from a woman's point of view very much appreciated.

You need to forget about her & just get on with living. If she's meant to come back into your life somewhere down the track, then it'll happen without you having to do a thing. It's basically none of your business if she's alone or what & who she deserves in her life & forget about apologising as you've done nothing wrong.

Thanks. Will probably say something about asking her out as I'm sure it's left things awkward but won't mention the other thing.

Forgot to mention...your post mentioned kids & if she has them, she just may be too busy to date. But apart from that, you seem to have it sorted so best of luck.

The reason I feel the need to apologize if asking her out was awkward is because although we haven't worked together for over 4 years we're both employed in the care sector in the same county for an organisation made up of several charities working together and there's often events when they all meet up and I'd rather have gotten things sorted properly now even via WhatsApp, just in case I should bump in to her at one of these, (especially as she's been promoted there's more of a chance) so there's not that embarrassing awkwardness should this ever happen.

Ahhh...That puts a slighty different light on it, Marpip. Well, as co-professionals, she obviously feels the same about not wanting there to be any future awkwardsness, because her actions basically said - 'I don't want to date/date you but I DO like you so let's put this back on a peer/friendship basis by next time asking other colleagues along'. The solution is therefore simple: organise another get-together, but this time with other colleagues you both like, and then text her to say, 'I and a few of the old gang are meeting this night/this time in a fortnight, be really great if you could join us?'. (She'll need that amount of notice for organising a babysitter.) Hope that helps too?

Thanks but she's the only one from my old place that I've really stayed in any kind of regular touch with and she doesn't know anyone where I am now so that's a non-starter. It'll have to be done on WhatsApp I'm afraid so I'll just keep it short and to the point and what happens after that (if anything) depends on her reaction.

In that case, if you text to invite her out again, I would (1) suggest daytime coffee again and (2) stress at the end - 'just as Friends :)'. And then you could follow straight on with a PS to say 'And sorry about last time, I suspect I was overcome with nostalgia'. You've nothing to lose, really, have you. And if she really isn't interested in getting together, even platonically (e.g. she doesn't even want to be tempted/swayed), she'll have to grow a backbone and tell you plainly she's not interested, won't she. But if you treat it like it's no biggie, and a bit amusing, that'll take the pressure off. I mean, for all we know (sounds like you do?), she's just come out of an abusive marriage and would rather stick needles in her eyes, on that score, is still too skittish, and, more than anything, needs a friend and brother-figure....somewhere SAFE. Going through the Friends door is the best method, anyway. It's how they do it here in Spain, and always have. Because it works - if there's truly a spark there. If not - you've made a new bestie/sister-figure (and women love matchmaking their male besties). Plus an industry ally. Win/Win, no Lose. I would leave it a few more weeks, though, just to show her you're not in any (trouser-led) hurry. Good luck, Soldier!

Thanks for both of you for the advice. My minds all over the place with this and I've probably picked up on signals that weren't there. Like I said when I stopped working there (nothing to do with her), we kept in touch via WhatsApp and it was ALWAYS me that initiated contact, although a lot of the time it led to pretty lengthy conversations, but never her, but I always thought she only replied just to be polite. Likewise when I often suggested a coffee, her reply was always 'sounds good', (except for one time she said something about being too busy weekends with the kids) so when I eventually suggested meeting up (we live in towns next to each other) I was expecting a polite excuse but instead she replied straight away, and I mean literally straight away: 7.55pm 'Hi I'm over your way Saturday fancy a coffee? 'Her 7.56 pm; 'High you ok, when you over' so that really suprised me. When we met I was just dressed casual as you would for a lunchtime coffee, but my first impression when I saw her was 'she's made an effort', she'd done her and make up, I notice her nails were done etc, and we had a real good 90 minutes chat. We met and left with polite peck on the cheek and that was that. It's after that I think I've really screwed it all up. In hindsight maybe I should've invited her out another 2 or 3 times for coffee just to get used to seeing each other in person before trying to ask her out, instead I done it the following week. Even when she said she was too busy to go out I joked I'm sure she wasn't and basically thanked her for letting me down gently (which I now know sounds a bit pathetic), then went and admitted I'd always liked her and told her how pretty she was and should she ever change her mind about a date etc..... So either this weekend or next, I'm going to message her and say something along the lines of 'Hey sorry if asking you out suddenly was a bit awkward. It's just when we met for coffee I realised how quickly time flies by, and that life's far too short not to be honest with certain people.' I figure as I've already told her how I feel about her that I've already 'shot my bolt 'so there's nothing more to lose. I'll have to see what happens next depending on her reaction. She'll carry on ignoring me or even possibly block me, in which case I can't do anything. She'll tell me asking her out was awkward and annoyed her etc... I which case I'll have some explaining to do. Or she might have a 'no problem' attitude. There's only one way I'm gonna find out......

"Like I said when I stopped working there (nothing to do with her), we kept in touch via WhatsApp and it was ALWAYS me that initiated contact, although a lot of the time it led to pretty lengthy conversations, but never her, but I always thought she only replied just to be polite." Polite doesn't engage in one, pretty-lengthy conversation, let alone a run-of. But anyway, I could tell she LIKES you because she basically said, Yes, but with a few other people along. Meaning, going for a (presumably nighttime) drink, PLATONICALLY. Oh, earwigo...modern men and women, yadder-yadder. The need for equality CANNOT include things males and females aren't hard-wired for, regardless of society's rush to grow up. Romance STILL operates on a Me, Tarzan - you, Jane, basis. Sure, a woman can ask a man out these days...but don't be surprised if you're setting the love train off on the wrong ruddy track and the bloke ends up going off her yet unable to explain why (it's called Emasculation, just via the back door). Men are still wired (for Provider reasons) to show-off their BRAVERY. And women, still wired to expect it. Your still-present, inner animals/naked apes still run this show (while Conscious/modern Us just pretend we're in control and take credit for it)....and it doesn't like it. Always there are exceptions to any rule...but on the whole - no. Maybe she's consciously a traditionalist as well (ooh, lucky you "if"!). "Likewise when I often suggested a coffee, her reply was always 'sounds good', (except for one time she said something about being too busy weekends with the kids)" So she CAN say No, then. Noted. "so when I eventually suggested meeting up (we live in towns next to each other)" Handy? AND ALSO, for a still-vulnerable, trust-broken woman, somewhat threatening for being that B...IT TOO nearby (e.g. how to stop you if you became a runaway train or, have enough geographical distance to avoid any "awks".) "I was expecting a polite excuse but instead she replied straight away," and I mean literally straight away: 7.55pm 'Hi I'm over your way Saturday fancy a coffee? 'Her 7.56 pm; 'High you ok, when you over' so that really suprised me." VERY interesting. Let me read on, though, because it could have just been a Good Day...feeling brave in that moment? "When we met I was just dressed casual as you would for a lunchtime coffee," Good. "but my first impression when I saw her was 'she's made an effort'," OH.... You went too fast, too soon, ya silly 'nana. Not had a sh*g for ages, I'll bet. (only joshing) Or maybe you ooze sex-appeal (to her own genes, anyway)? Should have asked for another coffee shop. You SPOOKED her, that's all (because a drink includes between lovers whereas coffee is platonic/non-romantic, plus one doesn't lose one's head over coffee and make rash choices to do with underwear (under-not-wear) that they're not nearly ready for. INNIT. I can tell that now without even reading on (but I will). "she'd done her (hair) and make up," Yep/check! "I notice her nails were done etc," Double Yep. OH yeah. (Have you ever TRIED varnishing your nails? How ambidextrous are you? Try it - you'll see.) ...Well, I say that assuming you can be sure she wasn't coming from some other outing? What time of day was the coffee? "and we had a real good 90 minutes chat." (Fagin voice:) Interestink minimisation semantics, my dear. Don't you mean a whole hour-and-a-half? Yeah. She was trying to be in control of theeeeee....paaaaaaaa..........ceh (this time) and, there was you, after one coffee, going, 'Fancy a promotion already?'. (Eeek, noooo - bring others, Mr Likeable-But-Scary Pants!) Rushing the relationship is now taken as a Red Flag, and makes it harder for victim-survivors to get their comfort and stability back that way (GOOD cos it's not good for them!). She's demonstrated she can say no, so she could have just said No, couldn't she. But she didne. She just asked for a couple of suppressors-come-bodyguards in-case you pounced and ravnished her haha. Next date - make sure you've watched "There's Something About Mary" a good few days beforehand. You'll know what I mean when it gets to that part, no worries. Can't say more than that (might be impressionable-aged Tweens watching, these days, probably) (plus the spoiler angle). "We met and left with polite peck on the cheek and that was that." Are ya French, Spanish or Italian? No, you're not, are ya. Should have been a brief, one-armed, side-ish-on, pat-pat hug or just two-handed handshake or quick upper arm rub/pat/press. (Who initiated that?) Yeah. She fancies you. THERE YA GO.... You just didn't Mansplain enough the first time...didn't hand over all the jigsaw pieces and therefore got a Picasso back instead of a Hockney. You disad-vant-edged our resident, veteran, hexpert, young sire. Never mind - got there in the end. :) "It's after that I think I've really screwed it all up." No, no. It's easily saved. Plus, she'll help. :D (Catastrophising noted.) "In hindsight maybe I should've invited her out another 2 or 3 times for coffee just to get used to seeing each other in person before trying to ask her out, instead I done it the following week." THERE WE GO! (Haven't been reading ahead.) Can't both be wrong! Established: she likes you. Likely: she fancies you. (Honestly -try the nail varnishing and you'll see for yourself what an effort it is! Takes ages to dry as well.) Otherwise, she wouldn't have been spookable and (instead of No) asked for 'inhibitors', "INNIT THO". Equally, it's easier to say - 'Sure! I'll give you a ring in a couple of weeks!' - and not. You're her counterpart, aren't you...situationally, I mean. I can tell. But dealing with it differently (obvs). Two injured bunnies... "Even when she said she was too busy to go out I joked I'm sure she wasn't and basically thanked her for letting me down gently (which I now know sounds a bit pathetic)," Yawn. No it doesnnnn't (Narc Victim Giant Symptom tick!) (bloody knew it). Yeah - slow down, Speedy or you might hurt yourself, split open your wound sites and knock off scabs. Follow Ms Sensible there - let her dictate the pace - or space your invites out and text a wee bit less. She's programmed to be more into safety than you are, even outside of post-abusive fauxlationship recovery. If you need a steady, safe, comforting sleeve to cling to - just stick around here until your confidence has regrown, but don't grab for hers until you know she's safe and she knows you are. Plus her kids will be needing extra attention and reassurance for a while, as well. "then went and admitted I'd always liked her and told her how pretty she was and should she ever change her mind about a date etc....." NORMALLY, I'd say - Good! Why not? It's true, isn't it? So it's not that you were premature, as such, but definitely for the situation and how she handles these things (more a cat that hides behind the garden shed and only comes out for food, versus, 'To get over someone, quickly get under someone else'. (Trust me, it doesn't work anyway, even if you think it has.) "So either this weekend or next, I'm going to message her and say something along the lines of 'Hey sorry if asking you out suddenly was a bit awkward. It's just when we met for coffee I realised how quickly time flies by, and that life's far too short not to be honest with certain people.' I figure as I've already told her how I feel about her that I've already 'shot my bolt 'so there's nothing more to lose." Well, if you've already shot your bolt - and unless 'you're Terminal' - don't shoot it a second time with that speech. Being honest has nothing to do with being premature or trying to bypass the normal-natural bonding pace. (But nice try ;)) Maybe she appreciated the honesty ('Brave - check!') but....well, one doesn't tend to choose to be spooked, or when. It just happens (bad recovery path day). "I'll have to see what happens next depending on her reaction." Yeah, but not with that speech. I mean - no offence, but - how have your own ideas been working out for you SO far, eh? No. Take my advice (since I'm the not injured and now all-excited one - which reduces your iQ significantly). 'Sloooowly, sloooowly, catcheee, spooked Monkeyyy'......or 'Be vewy qwuiet - I'm hunting wabbits'. "She'll carry on ignoring me or even possibly block me, in which case I can't do anything." Or maybe even come round to your house and shave your head hair to read, 'Eff-off creep!'. Or write and complain to her MP?? (After you with that crystal-ball that looks supiciously like a Blue balloon?) Tsk. Chillax. "She'll tell me asking her out was awkward and annoyed her etc... I which case I'll have some explaining to do." Do you know next week's winning Lottery numbers yet? "Or she might have a 'no problem' attitude. There's only one way I'm gonna find out...." Yeah. Take my advice and definitely not yours. :))) Not for the mo, anyway. Not til you've finished jigging and biting your nails. Best not. You've varnishing to do! (*ducks*)

"...Well, I say that assuming you can be sure she wasn't coming from some other outing? What time of day was the coffee? " I missed the midday comment. So - NO. HADN'T come from another event. :) She agreed to the reunion in the first place BECAUSE you were known and trusted already as a platonic (with potential). Safer than another website eejit. Now focus on being her easy-going, male, brotherly friend. And try to make her laugh. Maybe she'll wish she HADN'T panicked in case it's sent you (romantically) TOO many steps away/back, and, 'drop her hanky' for you to pick up. ("Dann-dann-daaaaan"). I'll notice if she does. Oh and be in no rush. Give her a little bit of time to miss you and worry. Just a little. *Next* weekend. Meanwhile, you'll just have to spend the evenings gelling your hair, hahahaha (sorry).

Oh, wait a min tho - forgot for a mo... She must be doing weekend on, weekend off, custody-wise, with her kids' father so work out which coming Saturday is all hers and give her a good 3 days notice. But equally, make sure it's been almost a fortnight or more. Here's your chance to let your actions contradict your prior over-zest whereby she can put your mustardness down as uncharacteristic as well. Other than that - be yourself so that you're the one that gets to (potentially) have a relationship with her.

PS: do you still have a best bud or did you and he lose touch during your last relationship? Were YOU married? And what did you know at the time, or this time round gather about what her wasband was like? Bet you anything, HE rushed her into a relationship too soon after they met.

Hey - just an idea, but - are you au fait with social media? This chap could do with some advice if you are, pretty-please? https://www.peoplesproblems.org/showtopic/13812/social-media-dilemma I'm a techie duh-brain so I couldn't help (I don't think?).

Thanks for the reply, must've taken you ages, think I got most of it (?). Messaged her what I said I would last night, but yet to hear back from her and pretty sure I won't. Really think I screwed up big time, should've got used to seeing each other in person again, hence having coffee 2 or 3 times before asking her out, but I rushed in too quickly and totally cocked it up. If I don't hear back from her, might wait until xmas and just drop her a text wishing her and the kids a merry xmas / happy new year as I usually do and if that gets no reply then, then that's definitely the end of it.

Wow you don’t give up do you! You keep trying no matter what and to me you sound like you are a bit of a stalker. Is she the only woman in the world or what! Have you tried to date others or are you so obsessed with this one so much that you will do anything at all to get her. That’s scary. You really need to back off. Just Stop and get a life. She’s got kids so a ex somewhere and her relationship finished for a reason. Did she cheat, did her ex cheat, was the relationship abusive. You were both in contact with each other but you were doing the chasing and maybe she liked having someone to chat to as a friend! She might not want to rush in to anything again and having to start from scratch with someone new even thou she knows you. Stop running after her like a sad pet. No matter how much you like someone if they are not getting back to you quickly or want others to be there on nights out then they are telling you they are not into you at all. She might not have the guts to tell you that and just sees you as a friend.

Wow you're really angry aren't you. Guess you're really hurting from unresolved past experiences that you'd get so mad at someone else? Whatever problems you think I've got at least pent up anger issues aren't one of them. And FYI her reply to me apologizing was 'Hey.Don't worry.' Now run along, you're late for your Therapist.

Wow you're really angry aren't you. Guess you're really hurting from unresolved past experiences that you'd get so mad at someone else? Whatever problems you think I've got at least pent up anger issues aren't one of them. And FYI her reply to me apologizing was 'Hey.Don't worry.' Now run along, you're late for your Therapist.

To "W-" I mean, "Banks". No. YOU "wow". What is your PROBLEM?! You come on here and VERBALLY ABUSE one of our perfectly lovely visitors whom clearly has more conscience in his little finger than you have in your entire body?? If he were a stalker, he wouldn't be on here whittling and worrying about having put her off or WHETHER he should do anything to fix it! Don't you dare. DON'T. YOU. DARE. Apologise immediately or THERE'S THE DOOR!

"Wow you're really angry aren't you. Guess you're really hurting from unresolved past experiences that you'd get so mad at someone else? Whatever problems you think I've got at least pent up anger issues aren't one of them. And FYI her reply to me apologizing was 'Hey.Don't worry.' Now run along, you're late for your Therapist." LOL and "I sayyyy!" Do you want a job?

(notonmyeffingwatch) Where were we, fine-but-nervous gentleman? Oh, yes!... First, you need a cuddle (more so now!), since you clearly haven't had one for far too long: (It's parental) (((((((((((((((((((HUG))))))))))))))))))))))) "Thanks for the reply, must've taken you ages, think I got most of it (?)." Nah. 110wpm (lifelong pianist). I know, I've got a very different wavelength to the norm, takes a few reads to click in. Does, though. "Messaged her what I said I would last night, but yet to hear back from her and pretty sure I won't." No, you're not pretty sure. You were surprised that she spent ages dolling up, weren't you. You're pretty SCARED you won't. Understandable, especially if she's the only woman who's appealed and felt safe enough for ages. (Is the fact she has ready-made kids a plus, then?) "Really think I screwed up big time, should've got used to seeing each other in person again, hence having coffee 2 or 3 times before asking her out, but I rushed in too quickly and totally cocked it up." Not necesscelery. She'll be enjoying the fair-dos ego boost. She probably needs it. Sorry - gonna nickname her to get it through your skull: Lovely, Dolled-up-Especially, In-the-daytime, Just-for-coffee woman, probably needs it. But she ain't gonna touch it with a BARGEPOLE until she's seen if you can STROLL happily (ooh, me got super self-control, me haz, not like your Nex who constantly lost his temper if you so much as blinked). "If I don't hear back from her, might wait until xmas and just drop her a text wishing her and the kids a merry xmas / happy new year as I usually do and if that gets no reply then, then that's definitely the end of it." Yes, but if you don't hear back from her, I'd text her something, like: Aww, I thought you and I were best buds material. Sorry I put my size 9s into it. Have a lovely life, maybe see you around some time, work-wise x Mate - HONESTLY. You need a female friend first. Recovery Path says so.

And she badly needs a big brother. You've only got one person's entire life to heal and get back to some semblance of normality. She's got - what - THREE? You try it! All with a broken heart and long-sustained injuries galore. Even broken trust in reality or anyone/anything (for a while). Oh, yeah, she's way more nervous than you. She just hides it better. She doesn't normally have time to fart, let alone doll-up and paint her nails JUST FOR AN EX-COLLEAGUE OVER COFFEE. Clearly no 'just' about it. And I thought this was lovely: "I'd always liked her and told her how pretty she was and should she ever change her mind about a date etc." So honest, courageous and sweet. And no, of course you don't want to walk away, unless you can do so with a clean conscience in terms of, behaved with dignity while doing everything you could, to the BEST of your ability, and, therefore it's clear nothing was to be done, ergo, it wasn't your fault, you did not stuff up (nor hurt anyone). That's what "over"-conscientious people do. Insist on keeping their clean conscience, it means that much to them. Are you her idea of good-looking as well (, did you sense)? Because if you are, you're a huge 'threat' just at the mo. Plus, the 'custody with ex/more abuse from ex' crud no doubt still ongoing. I actually think she's trying NOT to. That everything that's happened adds up to: Too tempting so I'd better keep away....maybe...ooh, I don't knowwwww.... A lot of men and women just out of a horrid marriage do that, lose their bottle, then have brave days.....back, forth, back, forth.... That instant response says so. It says, POUNCE! That and the kids were with their farter that day. And she didn't think she looked like beaten-up sh*t for-once.... all of that. Yeah, just show-off your manly Stoicness, Patience and Understanding. Gently, gently, gently. Now see what happens and/or what Fate makes happen, as make you plans-plans-more-plans redundant haha. It's too easy with male upbringing to believe either you have to make something happen - or the other person - or nothing will happen. You forget the 'out-of-the-Blue' and 'what were the chances?!' bits. You see it on here ALL THE TIME. I see it on here and everywhere. "Soooo Ah gatta have Ffaith!....Aah gotta haave.....Fai-aith......Cuz-I-gatta have-a Ffaith-a-Ffaith-a-Ffaith, Aaah gatta have FAITH!" (Lovely girl...lives at No. 99...)

I’m not angry at all, Just saying how it is. I did not think I would kick up a fuss with telling the truth but there you go. Some people can’t handle the truth can they Marpip!!! Seriously you are one sad sad case. You’re supposed to be a grown man (I think) or maybe you’re not and just an immature little boy and not dropped them yet!!! Your missing not getting attention so seek it by chasing a woman who doesn’t want to give you it. YOU NEED TO LET GO LITTLE BOY!!! GROW A PAIR OR JOIN THE ARMY! THEY WILL TRY TO MAKE A MAN OUT OF YOU IF THEY POSSIBLY CAN. No one wants to hear the truth but you do and you need to get out and live life and stop seeking attention where it clearly isn’t wanted. It looks like Soulmate has took you under her wings and wants to look after you since you are one of the lovely visitors on here. (That’s from her own mouth saying that) Soulmate you talk a load of shit you really do. Have you ever looked back at what you have written to anyone on here. Where are you from . Let me guess, America maybe. All bullshitters and talk out of their ass in my opinion. You really need to get a job you know. Your not good at all trying to be an agony aunt.! BOTH OF YOU GET OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD AND GET LIVES FOR GODS SAKE!

"Yeah, just show-off your manly Stoicness, Patience and Understanding." Oh, and the fact you do NOT have Angry Shoes. (Say it fast ;))

Troll (conveniently-for-me) called Banks. Oh, go away. Too tedious.

"her (own mouth)" And grossly presumptious. PS: I don't need a job, thanks. (Bet that's pissed you off 'n all.)

(See, Marpip? Not angry AT ALL. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAcan't breathe.-)

(And yeah - see? - if you're dead, you're a real man, hahahahaha!!!) Banks, I've decided you should stay - you're too funny!!!

Soulmate I think we need some kind of online intervention for Banks. He definitely has problems. Anyway like I said she said 'Hey. Don't worry 'when I apologized if asking her out made things awkward. So I've said I hope it hasn't put her off meeting up at some point for another |(purely platonic) coffee but understand if it has.

"Soulmate I think we need some kind of online intervention for Banks. He definitely has problems." No, it's okah, I think I've worked it out, Marpip. The clues are all in there if you look hard enough: He's a British Army & Navy Recruitment Officer (recently promoted Grunt as no-one wants to join these days), but the Army can't at present afford the all-important training in Charm & Diplomacy, so it's more of a verbal press-gang thing: YOU'RE SH*T AT WHAT YOU DO ANYWAY SO - GET OFF YOUR LAZY ARSES AND JOIN THE ARMY AND GET A LIFE (unlessyougetshot) - NNNNNOW!, YOU PA-THETIC CREATURES! I think we should hear him out (from another room?). I'm quite intrigued to know what vacancies they've got that they can't fill - aren't you? ...One that takes huge, heavy b*lls, apparently (human anchor?...can't afford the iron?).

"Anyway like I said she said 'Hey. Don't worry 'when I apologized if asking her out made things awkward. So I've said I hope it hasn't put her off meeting up at some point for another |(purely platonic) coffee but understand if it has." Yes - *I* know. Bet you 10 quid you'll be nicely surprised all over again, though? Unless by then, you've become a Rear Gunner, of course?

Hey Soulmate So she replied 'Hey.Don't worry' when I apologized if I'd made things awkward, but hasn't replied when I said about meeting up again, which was 5 days ago, so guess that's probably a no? either way I'd have expected some kind of reply even if it was a negative one. And Banks don't bother replying as I won't even bother to read your post.

Hey Soulmate So she replied 'Hey.Don't worry' when I apologized if I'd made things awkward, but hasn't replied when I said about meeting up again, which was 5 days ago, so guess that's probably a no? either way I'd have expected some kind of reply even if it was a negative one. And Banks don't bother replying as I won't even bother to read your post.

Hey Soulmate So she replied 'Hey.Don't worry' when I apologized if I'd made things awkward, but hasn't replied when I said about meeting up again, which was 5 days ago, so guess that's probably a no? either way I'd have expected some kind of reply even if it was a negative one. And Banks don't bother replying as I won't even bother to read your post.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what you did, and how you did it. I say all the time, if you really want something, you should pursue it no matter what the outcome could be. I think you did well in your approach and I believe you were a gentleman, it's just that obviously she's not interested, and that's ok. You went after something you wanted, you found it wasn't for you, and now you have to move on. Don't feel bad at all for how you went about things, you tried. And the only failure in trying is not trying at all. I think you're a standup guy that knows what he wants and isn't afraid to go after it. I respect you for that and that's nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed by. Just don't stay stuck on this, I'm sure there are so many other beautiful women that would love to date you or get to know you so don't waste anymore time questioning yourself or feeling bad. The sooner you can move on from this, the sooner you can start meeting some of these women who would love to date or be with you. And don't let the rejection from this woman make you afraid of being rejected by the next. Keep pursuing what you want, and eventaully you will get it. Just that simple.

Thank you for those kind words. I guess I was hoping (maybe deep down I still am) that it'd be one of those situations you often hear about where someone gets rejected but later on down the road she changes her mind and they eventually get together etc etc.... Silly I know. When she said 'Hey.Don't worry' I thought she was pretty cool about the whole thing that's why I was suprised when she didn't reply to the message I sent 9 days ago saying I hoped it hadn't put her off meeting up at some point for another (purely platonic) coffee, but I said I understood if it has. No reply is 100 times worse than her replying saying we should cut things off. It's like I haven't had proper closure although I realise that's not for her to do and is purely my problem to get to grips with. IF I don't hear back from her then I'll just message her and the kids a merry xmas like I always do and see if I get a response then gauge the mood from there. Some may say I shouldn't but it's kinda like as this year closes then I can possibly put a close on this whole episode and start anew next year if that makes sense?

Heya Marpip! So srry for the again long delay (megats Covid again, couldn't stop sleeping). Haven't read ahead. Be with you tomorrow, first thing I do! :)

"Hey Soulmate So she replied 'Hey.Don't worry' when I apologized if I'd made things awkward, but hasn't replied when I said about meeting up again, which was 5 days ago, so guess that's probably a no? either way I'd have expected some kind of reply even if it was a negative one. And Banks don't bother replying as I won't even bother to read your post." Hee-hee that last comment. Don't worry - he's long gone. Oh, and future ref: no need to waste your breath defending yourself (despite you did so very well - that's what I'm here for. :) As for the first... Edit: It's a No at this EARLY point. I mean - 'ermagheerd, five whurl dez!', haha. That's NOTHING! And no, you're not being silly. She still might. She clearly just isn't ready, meaning, you have Right Person, Right Place, but Wrong Time (that bit too soon). BUT, it is sensible to 'wait-without-waiting' by getting on with your usual routine and focusing on Crimbo. Because that always seems to get the person suddenly contacting, I find/found. Remember, you're supposed to be cancelling-out your prior 'message' (yeh-yeh-yeh, now-now-now!)...overlaying it with and showing-off your HUGE, MATURE-MINDEDLY MANLY PATIENCE...you know - that virtue that I can guarantee NONE of the men she might so far have tried dating would have had. New overall message: KEEN...But not needy. (In other words, you're not desperate for a relationship with some-woman-any-woman, you just got excited because *she - solely and specifically - is so irresistible and had that effect on you. Diff, all the diff. ALL the diff. Okay? "IF I don't hear back from her then I'll just message her and the kids a merry xmas like I always do and see if I get a response then gauge the mood from there. Some may say I shouldn't but it's kinda like as this year closes then I can possibly put a close on this whole episode and start anew next year if that makes sense?" Yup! Excellent Plan B. And Jateace is right, as am I. Banks was just a troll trying to pass himself off as a caring poster, whom now wants to deprive me of ongoing Comedy Fodder, hahahah....sneaky, ain't I. ;)

Pasting this down again. Might even do you good to re-read the whole thread? "Sorry - gonna nickname her to get it through your skull: Lovely, Dolled-up-Especially, In-the-daytime, Just-for-coffee woman, probably needs it. But she ain't gonna touch it with a BARGEPOLE until she's seen if you can STROLL happily (ooh, me got super self-control, me haz, not like your Nex who constantly lost his temper if you so much as blinked). "If I don't hear back from her, might wait until xmas and just drop her a text wishing her and the kids a merry xmas / happy new year as I usually do and if that gets no reply then, then that's definitely the end of it." ((What we're now calling, Plan B.)) Yes, but if you don't hear back from her, I'd *text her something, like: Aww, I thought you and I were best buds material. Sorry I put my size 9s into it. Have a lovely life, maybe see you around some time, work-wise x" *Take my advice this time, ya daft ugger, yeah?

(PS: Still no apology, look. I say - how symptomatic!)

Gonna stick with what I said about contacting her around xmas time and see what her reaction is and try and gauge it from then. Got family health problems cropped up so have to concentrate on those first.

Roger that, Cap'n! And I'll be standing-by, 'waiting-without-waiting'. Yeah, try and gauge it from there. Thing is - whichever way it pans out - you're going to be doing her a huge favour anyway if you don't take the first No for an answer (ESPECIALLY given her, as far as you were concerned, seeming mixed-messaging). Woman of her age should be quite capable of self-asserting enough to say, 'I'm really flattered but I'm not up for anything romantic at this juncture. Alright if we just meet up as friends, and get others along?'. How hard is that, really. Not very. (So that was another telling symptom of where she's at and why.) And if she's going to be putting her still-injured/healing self onto the dating market (Mr T voice: "Fool!"), she's going to need - NEEEEED-uh! - to know how to do that (dump) and not die of awkwardness, because women get 'em a LOT pushier than you on those bloody dating-sites, believe you, me! Waaaay, pushier! In fact, you're not even pushy. Dial still just says, Very Keen. The Sales Psychology rule of Three Nos. Behaviourally as well as vocally - you didn't even get a No per se. You got a Wait, I Wanna Be Friends First (so let's bring others next time). "Cough!".... NEXT TIME. She just didn't say When. So that means - Slow down, Dobbin! Keep this live by posting - or if you haven't anything to say - by just posting this: Bump-Up by permisson of Soulmate. Laters Mustardygater! :)

PS: Condolences regarding said kin health probs. Fingers crossed! Feel free if you need a shoulder. Swat I'm here for. :) (...well, after spanking rude and naughty bums, of course.)

PS: forgot to ask. Could be pivotal: "she mentioned something about them looking at her contract at work, " Looking at it how? Could it be she's being laid-off and is super-busy trying to find a new job just before Xmas? (No rush to answer me, though, I know you're preoccupied.)

Nah, think it was just something to do with extra hours. She likes it there and is well thought of so would be very surprised if she's moving on.

Extra hooouuurrrrss. There we go. That'll be what's tipped the scales (just for now). So she was telling the truth about 'not having time to fart'. And yet, gosh, look at the effort she went to, to meet up with you again during that quieter week. Yup. The Perfect Storm.... worse in the run-up to Xmas of all 'months'. So it's: Keen + (but) Still Over-Wary & -Vigilant (skittish) + Too Much In The In-Tray and To Adapt To. She just needs time to get her ducks back in a row because she'taken on more ducks. PS: If you're going to try going online dating, be extra-extra wary because it's Predator Rush-Hour this season. Also: Latest finding: cities (overcrowding, diffusion of responsibility ("the bystander effect"), empathy blocked...) breed psychopathic attitudes and behaviour so, think, Country Girl. (Do you like farms?) Or are you happy to wait until Missus is more sorted and ready? Bear in mind, she didn't PLAN/EXPECT to meet you again at that precise point, did she. So that means she MADE time (but now she can't) as well as also made the time to get all done-up to the point (scuse pun) of painting her nails (you tried it yet, btw?). PPS: Have you got company for Xmas?

Yeah sorted for xmas, thanks. Got family health stuff going on so that has to take priority for the time being.

Okay. Fingers Crossed they get better soon. Laters big-hearted-PROPER-Manly-gater!

Hi SM and Merry Xmas. So I messaged 'Merry Xmas to you and the kids and a happy and healthy 2025 x' and she replied 'Merry Xmas to you too, hope you have a good one' with a couple of xmas emojis attached. I then replied 'Thanks, how's you' and she replied the next day 'Good thanks and you?' And there was a couple of messages exchanged about work and where I went away for a short break, and I said I'd probably be over her way sometime after the New Year if she fancied a coffee and she replied 'Yes, let me know'. So that's where I've left it so will probably see if she fancies meeting up for another coffee end of Jan/start of Feb, so hope she doesn't make up an excuse not to meet. Obviously I didn't mention the 'Elephant in the room' about asking her out!!!

Sorry for the massive delay - be with you asap, it's just I lost internet over most of Xmas so I'm behind.

Merry Humbug and Happy New Purely Human Construct to yoooou, too! ;) ""¡So I messaged 'Merry Xmas to you and the kids and a happy and healthy 2025 x'" Excellent. "and she replied" AND THERE IS IT. Excellent. "'Merry Xmas to you too, hope you have a good one' with a couple of xmas emojis attached." Not a fob-off, then. Actual, heartfelt message. EVEN BETTER! Ex-ce-llleeeeent (insert Wayne's World guitar riff). "I then replied 'Thanks, how's you'" Good! "and she replied the next day 'Good thanks and you?'" THERE IT IS AGAAIIIN! (Ee shoots n ee scorwes!) "And there was a couple of messages exchanged about work and where I went away for a short break," I say! Now you're both just showing-off! "and I said I'd probably be over her way sometime after the New Year if she fancied a coffee" OO-OO-OOH. "and she replied" ('Take me, take me NOWWW - only, NOT now - later' hahaha.) "'Yes, let me know'." Case Closed (said all drawly-smugly). YYEAHR, BOAH! "So that's where I've left it" Roger, that, 007. "so will probably see if she fancies meeting up for another coffee end of Jan/start of Feb," End of Jan. Feb's a bit - nyeeeeaaaaah... leaving it a smidgen TOO late. You don't' have to pretend you've cooled-off/aren't really keen. You just have to show that no matter how keen you are, you have the adult self-control AND female-respect AND father material to keep your hands to yourself until the time is right FOR HER. (She has the (boobs and) womb - you don't - she wins. Nature's edict - not MY rules, them's just the rules. And it's very, very good for you - the gain far outweighs the pain.) Plan, Stan: text in end of Jan but make the meet-up first half of Feb (ta-da). "so hope she doesn't make up an excuse not to meet." Doesn't sound remotely like it to me. "Obviously I didn't mention the 'Elephant in the room' about asking her out!!!" Yes, I noticed. THLUP! (That's a Gold Star on your forehead) GOOD JAAAAAB - as the Mericans say. In fact....Oh, go on, then - as it's (was) Christmas - I'll do the inserting (ooer, madam): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gdX6sycuWI Enjoy! :) Looking forward to the next development update. Feel free to chat/ask anything meantime. (You're really rather lovely, aren't you. :) (DYA HEAR THAT, BANKS? I SAID, HEEEEE'S REALLY RATHER LOVELY, ISN'T HE.)

PS: ""Anyway like I said she said 'Hey. Don't worry 'when I apologized if asking her out made things awkward. So I've said I hope it hasn't put her off meeting up at some point for another |(purely platonic) coffee but understand if it has." Yes - *I* know. Bet you 10 quid you'll be nicely surprised all over again, though? Unless by then, you've become a Rear Gunner, of course?" You owe me Ten quid, look. ;) OR - vis-a-vis this: ""so hope she doesn't make up an excuse not to meet." Doesn't sound remotely like it to me." ...Double or nothing?

Thanks for the reply SM and Happy New Year. Got an appointment over her way first week of Feb so will see if she wants to meet up then. To be honest she knows how I feel about her and I think she's just too nice and polite of a person to outright reject me, and like I said before it's always been me that initiates contact, never her, and I'm sure she just replies just to be polite. I'll see what happens after /if I meet her again, and will leave the ball in her court. If something happens then great, if not it'll probably be the last time I'll reach out to her, as I'll just be living in hope, and to be honest it will stop me from moving on as I will have to make the break at some point. I can't spend my whole life wanting to get with someone who's not interested or I 'll never end up meeting someone else. I know they say 'there's plenty more fish in the sea' but It doesn't help when you've fallen for the Mermaid.

"Thanks for the reply SM and Happy New Year." You're again very welcome, "double-O". "Got an appointment over her way first week of Feb so will see if she wants to meet up then." "Ex-ce-lleeeeeent". "To be honest she knows how I feel about her and I think she's just too nice and polite of a person to outright reject me, and like I said before it's always been me that initiates contact, never her, and I'm sure she just replies just to be polite." She's old school. Tarzen knock for Jane, not Jane knock for Tarzan. She'd be the type says, 'Noooo - get out of my kitchen, out-out!..but thank-you anyway (smile)', and, 'Bins are the man's job'. Maybe you're too modern and she's too traditional, and you need to rub-off on one another to find a happier medium. But - don't just repeat your pessimism: put your money where your mouth is and, Double of Nothing. Yes? No? Yes? Dunno? (RSvP) And anyway, it's not a Rejection in that case, it'd simply be a Declination. If someone spent 90 years with yuo and then chucked you, but not for anyone else - THAT'S a Rejection. But even then, it's not really because it'd take more than a lifelong marriage to really get to know another human mind, all-facets. PS: Your whole LIFE? How long's it been, then?? Oh, yeah. You DEFINITELY need to stretch your patience muscles so, this is just as well. Especially if impatience was what got you into trouble the last time(s). Have a little thinkipoos. "I'll see what happens after /if I meet her again, and will leave the ball in her court. If something happens then great, if not it'll probably be the last time I'll reach out to her, as I'll just be living in hope, and to be honest it will stop me from moving on as I will have to make the break at some point. I can't spend my whole life wanting to get with someone who's not interested or I 'll never end up meeting someone else." Fairenoughski, that hypothetical. "I know they say 'there's plenty more fish in the sea' but It doesn't help when you've fallen for the Mermaid." HAHA - THAT'S BRILLIANT - I LOVE THAT! You've made up a new Wise Saying, look! That definitely has staying-power. Can I borrow that? You can have one of mine?....'I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy' (tho I don't drink actually). Is that a fair swap? So are you an Advertising Copywriter? You could also paraphrase it as, 'Plenty more fish doesn't help if you've fallen for the Mermaid' - but I'm just altering perfection, really, haha. Love it. Got any others? How old are you again? PS: in fact you should definitely make a meme out of that; that'd go down really well on the interweb grapevine, I reckon.

You wouldn't BE whittling and worrying yourself a safetynet if you'd done as I suggested and tried painting your nails, though. That's why I suggested it; I wasn't being glib. You can use the clear varnish, you know, just in-case you get interrupted ('Ah, yeah, it's anti-fungal' or 'for in-growing hangnails n sh*t' or even 'it's that disgusting-tasting stuff - to stop you biting your nails'...or 'DYA LIKE IT?' hahahaha!). TRY it, Sam-I-Am. You might not LIKE it but it'll bring everything into focus for you, make it all clear (as well as the nails hur-hur).

Feel free to take that saying and run with it. Will let you know what happens........

Thankyouverymush, Kind Sir. Actually, though - I feel like I've short-changed you, so have this one as well: 'If you don't sort your issues you'll run out of tissues'. "Will let you know what happens........" You'd better! LOL

So............tum-tee-tummmm.... Yyyeahhh....Was just in the area and thought I'd poke my head round the door, see if you'd painted your nails yet? Seriously, it'll make everything clear. (Don't even ASK me about those Gel things - I haven't got a clue! They just look plain weird to me (ew, don't touch me! LOL).)

Whappnin', Geezer? Anything to report yet?

get over her immediately. women destroy simps. take that search to youtube or similar and watch some compilation videos to understand. i get a sense she'd be how my ex wife was. kids that aren't yours and affairs you'd be delusional to believe weren't happening. while she entitled herself to your cash which is never enough. you dodged a bullet. and feel encouraged to reject her brutally if she ever comes around.

of course having read the full comments below i could easily have been wrong. i read the post as endearing, thirsty, and her the creep. lol whelp, back to my life as a watch. (right twice a day lol)

First off Ricky I'm no 'Simp', she should ever come around I certainly won't 'reject her brutally'. If it happens it'll depend on my situation at the time. She's a lovely person who certainly doesn't deserve to be treated 'brutally'. To be honest mate with an attitude like that I'm not surprised your wife is now an ex. Hi SM. Am over her way Saturday so am going to let her know in the next couple of days, and if she says yes will let you know what happens.

i see you're fitting in well here. i'll leave you to it. best regards

You too. Sorry if I was bit harsh with the ex-wife bit, but treating people 'brutally' because they reject you isn't really the way to go, but best of luck anyway.

i prompted it by over reaching. i hadn't read most of your replies to get additional clues. my intuition is hitting me pretty hard for the life i'm living. not so much a brag but for my survival instinct and previous experience and proper coping. i've tried to help everyone i make contact with. most are receptive, many take advantage, if not accepting the random generosity of someone who shouldn't be caring they take the boons and social credit. understand that while you find the proper place for the improper ventings that your words have impact on others. remember that this forum directs itself to helping those dealing with harsh realities. forgive me mods if this is out of turn... you're toxic and you need to calm yourself down. you're not as smart or experienced as you think you are, and these people don't deserve you. quit thinking about yourself for once and go read how others are coping for examples. you need this forum and i feel you'll be banned soon, and i've seen enough pain already. i don't want that for you.

What's this? Let me catch up...

Oh dear... I spot waving of handbags going on.... Ricky (you first, cos you started it, and, taking this step-by-step in-order so there'll be no misunderstandings): "get over her immediately. women destroy simps. take that search to youtube or similar and watch some compilation videos to understand. i get a sense she'd be how my ex wife was. kids that aren't yours and affairs you'd be delusional to believe weren't happening. while she entitled herself to your cash which is never enough. you dodged a bullet. and feel encouraged to reject her brutally if she ever comes around." 1. No-one can get over someone immediately. Unless one was secretly never bonded, or not nearly enough, in the first place (just pretending/conning). Maybe it was a figure of speech, however, we need to be very precise and clear here. 2. No, Women *do not*. FEMALE NARCISSISTS do (- gender to-all-intents immaterial), all the way down to 'mere' spoilt-baby narcissist-IC types. 3. Simps and Doormats are what Narcissists use to manipulatively shut victims up via gaslightingly provoking too much shame in their victims so that said victims will dare not blow the whistle lest they get labelled, Simps and Doormats. It's a Narc-propogandist myth. Same (most of the time) as "Co-Dependent" (no, that's the Narc but s/he infects you/dumps his/her issues on you). 4. "While she entitled herself to YOUR cash"??? Que???? If you are married, there's no longer any such thing as your-singular wealth and assets (and interpersonal rights). It's by-law 50-50. Question: what did you mean by 'your'? I didn't, however, take you literally with 'brutally' (lost in translation, maybe?). ------------ Double-Oh (because you continued it): "To be honest mate with an attitude like that I'm not surprised your wife is now an ex." (Ouch) Remember what I said about one of the things I'm here for? You're doing MY job. I've just had to pull Ricky up on that, haven't I, Ricky ("yesh") (he was getting ideas-above and playing Host). In future, if someone steps on your toes or there's in any way a clash, don't engage. Wait for me (ignoring it meanwhile). I know that's hard.... BUT!...MEANWHILE, looking on the bright side: it's still an A1 piece of mental gym equipment to muscle you up on the inside as much as your outside so is an (childhood-missed) opportunity to add another tool/weapon to your Adult (incuding anti-narc) Toolbelt. A very RARE opportunity. Likewise - meanwhile you're getting to have everything done for you so you can put your feet up for a change. We already KNOW you're 007 when it comes to defending and fending-off. BOT IT'S ME JOB-uh! So wait for me to investigate and mediate, please-thank-you. ________________________________________________________________ Short version: Gerroff me job, the pair of you :pppppppppppppp. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Next post: Ricky, This bit was amusing, though, for illustrating mine and now your own point about rushing and therefore making avoidable mistakes by missing stuff: "i see you're fitting in well here. i'll leave you to it. best regards" Marpip's already LONG in, let alone fitted! :D ("SpecSavers!") That's like turning to your dad and saying - 'Right, my lad, time to brush your teeth and then bed!', hahahahah! ("Pardon-sorry-what?" hahahahah!!!) Now news for both of you. You're *supposed* to have a bit of Simp in you as well as all the OTHER fully-development human qualities, to be a rounded, fully-functional human being, AND to be a Real Man one. Your challenge is to find the correct balance for yourself, based on your 'unique' centre of gravity. Or if you prefer (Equalizer board), to have all the dials, knobs and sliders at the correct settings whereby you are sweet music to the female ears (those whose chemistry 'matches' yours). Women's biggest, longest-running complaint about (even normal-healthy) men - *de-coded* - is simply that, they're not FEMININE enough. (Tsk. (rolls eyes)) __________________________________________ Next post.... (oh, great)... "understand that while you find the proper place for the improper ventings that your words have impact on others. remember that this forum directs itself to helping those dealing with harsh realities. " Here we go/went? Ricky, again...like I've basically been increasingly intimating on your thread (but now forced to spell it out in giant neon): Who died and made you forum Moderator and Host? Did you see me resigning? Exsqueeze you? You've been here all of 5 minutes. You are in no way within-right or qualified to be speaking on behalf of this forum. ***Non-rhetorical question: What on earth was it that made you think you were at liberty to?*** So - "forgive me mods if this is out of turn...". No. I will not. It's just too cheeky. And yes, out of turn. I reiterate: The only person allowed to critique, lecture, tick-off, judge Posters is me. Ricky, google "Shadhida Arabi - Boundaries", please. This is a main Narc Flea (that I've mentioned) inside your clothing, now strongly identified, and you need to locate it to pluck it out (I'll help on your thread - all in good time, obvs)....then slather it in Supaglue before flinging it back towards whichever Narc in your "faminily" it jumped over from. But now this ending just irks me, this was REALLY pushing the boundary-smashing boat out! : "you're toxic and you need to calm yourself down. you're not as smart or experienced as you think you are, and these people don't deserve you. quit thinking about yourself for once and go read how others are coping for examples. you need this forum and i feel you'll be banned soon, and i've seen enough pain already. i don't want that for you." Marpip is toxic??? Be BANNED SOON???? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! Non rhetorical again: Where the beep did you get THAT from?! FYI I'll be pasting this over to your own thread as well as all the others, but I want your answer here in front of Marpip because your final flourish showed you were DETERMINED to get a punch in, so much so that you posted a fakely conciliatory-sounding beginning to your (what should have been) apology post before you dealt it. No-no-no-no-no. That is NOT funny in the slightest. Explain yourself, please. ________________________________________________________ Sincere apologies that you've been accosted a second time, Marpip.

Meanwhile, you and I - back to biz, 00... "Hi SM. Am over her way Saturday so am going to let her know in the next couple of days, and if she says yes will let you know what happens." Great stuff! However, today's already Monday and she's got kids thus will plan at least one week in-advance, remember? Here's your chance to show her you understand she is, and give her more notice than you would have back when you were both single daters.

i've been told i made a mistake in here and i can't have that on my conscience. at this point i'm realizing the exhaustion i'm under. it;s obvious that i've given horrible advice twice so far, and that's careless. i need to step away tonight and take a breath, and tomorrow i swear i'll relog and check into the manip thread and assess and admit my stupidity. soukmate, from that i now understand why your advice turned hurtful, because i have no memory of going off on manip at all. but those are my words and style. i ask your patience tonight. and i'm considering that my mistakes and the harsh reaction are cause enough to step away. if not for me for the community. i'm so sorry. though i haven't read my post there yet to refresh i trust the community to know it's me. i'll be back tomorrow to explain myself and then i'll either slow my role posting for a time, or leave depending on the consensus. and on second thought i can't sleep with this on my head. i'm answering it now. hopefully typoes or misspeaking isn't jumped on. i'm punishing myself and can't get lower. please forgive me.

Just to fortify that: only yesterday I got a text from my "Thursday" friend, asking for me to tell her 'now' if due to the forecast I felt we should switch the day to a warmer one. She's a married mum with 4 kids (well, teenagers actually - haha, even worse) - which is a full-time job in itself, plus works formally (i.e. second job!) every single morning as well as one afternoon per week AND Saturdays. AND runs hers and her husband's business the rest(?) of the time! I'm busy enough but - sod that for a game of soldiers?! (Been there, done that) (she's younger than me). You need to be an Army Officer to cope with that amount! And also to fortify this: Be assured that the next guest who tries to have a pop at you is going to see MY dark side and (duuuuh) realise the reason why I've been sole moderator/forum police officer for the last 14 years straight (meaning, was NOT hired for being tall with fabulous tennis-legs, actually). So definitely just wait for me. Because "dish meansh waw". PS: Do you get this kind of 'attention' in your real life? (Price for being shiny, I guess.)

Oh, I didn't see you there, Ricky. "i've been told i made a mistake in here and i can't have that on my conscience. at this point i'm realizing the exhaustion i'm under. " We're ALL exhausted on here, but that doesn't make us feel entitled to slap someone's face for no reason or right. So I'm not interested in your violin for special dispensation. If everyone felt entitled, just because they were stressed, the human race would be EXTINCT by now. "it;s obvious that i've given horrible advice twice so far, and that's careless." That's very Minimising. you have not just given horrible advice, you have attacked ambushed and attacked another poster who was doing no harm, least of all to you. "i need to step away tonight and take a breath, and tomorrow i swear i'll relog and check into the manip thread and assess and admit my stupidity." You could have done it already, instead of this justificatory-attempting post. "soukmate, from that i now understand why your advice turned hurtful, because i have no memory of going off on manip at all. but those are my words and style." No, my advice did not turn hurtful. You took it that way. Despite in your very first post you'd invited, amongst other things, criticism and in a 'both barrels' way. So this shows you're not truly committed to whatever you're saying, are you. "i ask your patience tonight. and i'm considering that my mistakes and the harsh reaction are cause enough to step away. if not for me for the community." You have not had harsh, you've had unamused and unimpressed. You're minimising your transgression whilst exaggerating my responses. "i'm so sorry. though i haven't read my post there yet to refresh i trust the community to know it's me." Sorry, don't get that. "i'll be back tomorrow to explain myself and then i'll either slow my role posting for a time, or leave depending on the consensus." What consensus? It's my judgement call and decision entirely. I don't need a team's help. "and on second thought i can't sleep with this on my head. i'm answering it now. hopefully typoes or misspeaking isn't jumped on." Jumped on. Oh, leave it out. Yeah, poor you. All you did was attack another poster out-of-nowhere with horrible insult and slander,- oh, but, nasty Soulmate is the perpetrator - for being unfairly harsh, jumping unfairly on you. You've already demonstrated you're not this dense. Pull the other one. "i'm punishing myself and can't get lower. please forgive me." Poor you, poor you, poor you... NO. YOU'LL HAVE TO (somehow) MAKE ME. Good luck. I'm gunning for you. Truly.

BANKS i'm so ashamed. it's obvious i'd read normally until BANKS and that reply was meant for him. and as i immediately know and have been reminded, that's not my job. and completely unfair. marpip i immediately retract every hurtful disgusting thing i said to you. i was very much outside of myself and don't remember doing this. please i beg forgiveness and that in time when i might post it'll be on equal footing. and that doesn't make it right, and i must amend. i'll leave it here to you all. i admit my mistake, it's my second in very quick succession. i need to rest, and may be too chaotic long term to be of consistent help. i've gained from the forum and don't want to be the issue here. i'm open myself to judgement.

BANKS i'm so ashamed. it's obvious i'd read normally until BANKS and that reply was meant for him. and as i immediately know and have been reminded, that's not my job. and completely unfair. marpip i immediately retract every hurtful disgusting thing i said to you. i was very much outside of myself and don't remember doing this. please i beg forgiveness and that in time when i might post it'll be on equal footing. and that doesn't make it right, and i must amend. i'll leave it here to you all. i admit my mistake, it's my second in very quick succession. i need to rest, and may be too chaotic long term to be of consistent help. i've gained from the forum and don't want to be the issue here. i'm open myself to judgement. ...you're right. That's very Minimising. you have not just given horrible advice, you have attacked ambushed and attacked another poster who was doing no harm, least of all to you. ...omg it hadn't appeared to me. ok, i apologized after realizing my mistake. i need to read my actual words. i'll answer these first. You could have done it already, instead of this justificatory-attempting post. ..you're right. i intended that post to give me the time and patience to rest before replying. i haven't slept since before i posted it, you see. No, my advice did not turn hurtful. You took it that way. Despite in your very first post you'd invited, amongst other things, criticism and in a 'both barrels' way. So this shows you're not truly committed to whatever you're saying, are you. ...i'm overwhelmed and didn't expect to be the one messing up. being told to speak for myself, not us. i use us by reflex because 'team building.' i roughly remember being a second thing before this stupid post where you'd corrected me on forum etiquette. i can't remember so if you'd remind me i'll apologize for that too. i'm committed, and yes i asked for it. on the same token i've provided feedback so that you could take notice. i didn't realize i'm out of control. You have not had harsh, you've had unamused and unimpressed. You're minimising your transgression whilst exaggerating my responses. this is absolutely true. i still haven't properly read my post yet. i went into 'what would i have posted' and did that first, and then found my mistake before i'd actually read it. "i'm so sorry. though i haven't read my post there yet to refresh i trust the community to know it's me." and Sorry, don't get that. I DON'T REMEMBER MAKING THIS POST. i know my mind and when i saw the other crap talkermi figured out what i did. i went outside my lane to write a scathing and hurtful thing and then aimed it to the wrong person. when i read what i said i'll need time to answer. and honestly from here i totally agree i should stepaway. but let's fix my mistake and clear the air first.

omg what a horrible thing to say, i deserve evyerhting you guys throw at me.

Yeah, poor you. All you did was attack another poster out-of-nowhere with horrible insult and slander,- oh, but, nasty Soulmate is the perpetrator - for being unfairly harsh, jumping unfairly on you. yeah. boy am i an idiot.

A good start would be to answer all of my straight questions - every single one - from this above post: SOULMATE (moderator) - Feb 4 2025 at 22:21 ...with straight answers, NOT yet more distractive woes from your past and present. (Again, everyone has those. But the truth is: Genuine victims or past victims: they wouldn't DREAM of trying to hurt someone else, not even accidentally, let alone cause the same/similar injuries that were deal them, and are therefore super-careful with their newly heightened empathy and appropriate, healthy amount of Walking On Eggshells/Handling With Kid Gloves. They don't do what you did. And that's why I'm saying, "somehow" make me see you deserve forgiveness. BY DOING WHAT IT TAKES TO EARN IT. As well as prove you can. If not...I believe the Tories need new staff.

Crossover. But I've no time left to read your latest so sit on your hands and I'll be back tomorrow. Thanks.

i can deactivate if you'd like. i'd like to get with marpip to apologize and allow him his say first. They don't do what you did. ...you're right. absolutely right. and i deserve to be asked to leave. i intentionally hurt someone else. i've explained exhaustion and stress but that isn't good enough. you told me log and rest and i know the truth in my mistake not listening. and then i lash out irrationally onto someone clearly not deserving in a way i can't imagine, not able to provide anything besides 'i don't recall' my gawd that sounds like a bs answer. i did it, that was me. i have no good excuse and my first step is mitigate some of that. i need to eat something since that's been three days, and get some sleep. i'm using a notepad trying to keep tract of everything my mind is so blown. i understand what the reference meant, and i'm ready to accept removal. i'll leave willingly if that's the decision. i knew earlier that i needed to stop and sleep and before i did this^ even should i be allowed to stay i'll be afk for a day or more. there's too much on my plate and some can be managed and removed, after a good night rest. i deserve it and should prove my attrition. i'll be here to answer until you dismiss me, for real. and if i didn't say yet i _need to apologize to marpip. i'm so sorry. i feel like an idiot and the end of my rope. i need sleep and food and my isolation and loneliness is an all time. i lost my best friend, a dog named bullet, and that's hitting me harder than my sister hating my guts. i deserve to be outcasted for hurting you so visciously and without cause or reason. what a stupid thing and how horrible that looks to provoke a nice answer and then. i don't know what to say but i hope marpip knows he didn't deserve any of my crap. my heart hurts for you and what i did to you. and here i was thinking i'm empathic. wtf is wrong with me. alright, i don't know what else but hit reply and cry. have at me.

it's finally sunk in i've had a psychotic break. this is in no way an excuse but to preempt what i say next. i'm not fit for human consumption. i need to go. now i'd like to explain. everything i said to marpip was my subconscious getting even by lashing out with my worst fears of myself and sabotaging my first chance at closure and acceptance. i hadn't read most of your replies to get additional clues. ...not even bothering to read... my intuition is hitting me pretty hard ...no it's not i'm freaking out. i've tried to help everyone i make contact with... until right now where i tear your heart out understand that while you find the proper place for the improper ventings that your words have impact on others. ...oh boy do they. these are all about me. i wrote this to MYSELF wtf forgive me mods if this is out of turn... it was, and i don't deserve forgiveness. you're toxic and you need to calm yourself down. you're not as smart or experienced as you think you are, and these people don't deserve you. ...no, none of you deserved me. that outburst was toxic and proved all the things i've fought against are just under a surface. and really i'm not that smart or experienced. i typed that without censoring or modulating my thoughts, or checking the recipient, or wondering how a mod would feel if i posted, none of that from a guy you thought isn't this dense. and even so there's no cure for death. i'm scared. quit thinking about yourself for once and go read how others are coping for examples. ...yup, me right all over. ricky, contribute like you feel normal inside and it's not a fascade of your previous strength. you help them, show them the what-for and they;ll see you're worth it to help you. (and sabotaged myself spectaculary.) you need this forum and i feel you'll be banned soon, and i've seen enough pain already. ...i need this forum and i should be banned. even understanding doesn't undo the pain i've caused. and now that i understand, my fears are intensified. my dark self is right about me all along. the world is pain and unfair and even good things conditional. don't put your head up again, ricky. dummy i don't want that for you... i don't either but i've been lonely and never loved and this time i did it to myself. not scared, terrified. the raised heartbeat and agitation and all that started sunday when my renters moved out with my dog. i've suffered too much and from here i'm scared of myself. where this came from and why now i have no idea. huberis, being a braggart, like i know everything and nothing phases me. right at the buzzer and i'm as full of crap as any poser, pretending to be ok when my entire world came crashing down last week. i'm an idiot to come here and should have known i'd go into crisis thinking on it so. i get it, i'm accepting the piece of shit i obviously am. as you boot, someone comment here what to do with a 3 day running adrenaline rush. my eyes are glittery white and my head feels compacted. i'm taking a sleeping pill and trying for sleep. if i relog tomorrow to a ban i completely understand. i've only ever deserved what i got. past lives, i guess. i swear those words, marpip, will haunt me the rest of my life. i'm sorry. and to those who admired me, don't. i wouldn't wish my life on anyone. and should soemone besides me have this level of terrible i'd be understanding of their ending things and losing to despair. i might be going there soon enough after this manic crash. i'm the horrible person the post dto marpip describes me as. i'm alone and that sucks. best regards, goodbye rickyw

Hey Ricky, it's fine, don't worry about it. I'm on here for advice with my situation as are you with yours, we're cool. SM, I messaged her last night to say I'm over her way Saturday and did she fancy a coffee, so am waiting for a reply.

hearing you need to continue your thread, i'd almost forgot haha. i'm still feeling pretty not myself and don't trust myself to say anything. for now and maybe ever i'll only be speaking for myself in my own thread. my words about the cuss out you'd gotten being to myself, that's true. my feelings are jumbled and as i embrace the numbing tingly sensation i'll accept what ever my new normal is. it'll be in solitude where nobody can get hurt. the pain i caused you is pain i'll have to carry for causing you. despondence doesn't a strong enough word. i'm sorry. ask soulmate to move his replies over to my thread so i can continue my destruction-as-punishment there. you can continue unobstructed.

Hi SM Messaged her Tuesday saying I was over her way today if she fancied a coffee. Didn't get a reply and don't know why. Maybe she didn't see the message/is ill/ forgot to reply etc, I don't know. Maybe she's changed her mind and thinks meeting again might be too awkward, but she strikes me as the type to make up an excuse to let someone down gently, not outright ignore them. Plus when I 'd previously said sorry if asking her out made things weird she replied 'Hey. Don't worry' and when I messaged her last time at Xmas saying I'd probably be over her way sometime in the New Year if she fancied another coffee she replied 'Yes. Let me know'. Have to go back over her way again in the next 3-4 weeks so will let her now again then and if I get no reply then I'll know she's just ignoring me and I guess that'll be that.

Hey 00, Sorry for the no-show. Came down with - well, not sure if it was Norovirus or Rotovirus, there're so many stomach bugs going around out here to choose from! So, yeaah, that was fun... Anyhoo, let me catch up with your latest... "Messaged her Tuesday saying I was over her way today if she fancied a coffee. Didn't get a reply and don't know why. Maybe she didn't see the message/is ill/ forgot to reply etc, I don't know." Awwwwww-UH?! "Maybe she's changed her mind and thinks meeting again might be too awkward, but she strikes me as the type to make up an excuse to let someone down gently, not outright ignore them." Yes, from everything I gathered/analysed about her, I agree she's not an ignoring type. But - hey - look at me! I've been out of action since - when was it? (scroll-scroll)... bloody nora - 6th Feb, woah! So - there you go. Maybe she and/or her kids have all got it? It's everywhere, not just Spain,...not just Europe, either. (I blame international business travellers...and flight crews.) (Or their whip-cracking employers, anyway.) One of my bessies (I think it was him I caught it from tbh) had it for 2 weeks and had to succumb to the doctor's. "Plus when I 'd previously said sorry if asking her out made things weird she replied 'Hey. Don't worry' and when I messaged her last time at Xmas saying I'd probably be over her way sometime in the New Year if she fancied another coffee she replied 'Yes. Let me know'." Yeah - I'm with you. I could tell she was trying to walk a fine line (not to lose you, but just to slow you down) on that date when she said to bring others, and that she's no coward (just not as brave as she is normally, non-traumatised). So- yeah. Frustrating that you can't know what/why, but obviously SOMETHING'S going on. And isn't there always, with kids, hah. "Have to go back over her way again in the next 3-4 weeks so will let her now again then and if I get no reply then I'll know she's just ignoring me and I guess that'll be that." Well - no. Fact is, you and she have known each other, at one point, DAILY, for years, now. So regardless of your extra feelings, you guys ARE friends, certainly enough that if you're bothered you're perfectly within-rights to text again and ask if she and her kids are okay because it's not like her not to reply and you're a bit worried, what with all the flu bugs going around. If you act like you don't give a shite, even in honour of that past workplace friendship, then what if she reads that incorrectly and it puts her OFF you for being an 'out of sight, out of mind' merchant? Wouldn't you do that for any other friend that uncharacteristically wasn't responding? You've nothing to lose but everything to gain. (I'd be WELL touched by the sincerity of caring, I would.) Say something like, 'Hey, you're not another one who's chained to the bathroom, are you? Not like you not to respond? Seriously - everything okay with you and the kids? A Smiley will do if you're coping but too ill or busy to text?'. Go ooon - be a daredevil and show her you care, haha. ('Nana.) Seriously. If it's what you'd do with a friend or, say, sibling, then DO IT. You have GOT to be friends, not just lovers, this time. That's where everyone goes wrong. They fancy each other like crazy but actually don't like each other very much - or at all! Do I make sense or do I makes sense? :)

Thanks SM Maybe you're right. Will give it another week or so to see if I hear anything

Well she replied today saying 'Sorry I totally forgot to reply', so I answered no worries, was over her way that day wondered if she fancied a coffee.... Then sent her a message saying 'How's things with you,. Work ok|?' so will wait to see what the reply is.

"'Sorry I totally forgot to reply'," Haha! Right - Jury's in: she's not yet got to-grips with her new status/lifestyle, and having to do absolutely everything (Mumdad) so is apt to disappear up her own spiral. (....Hmm...sounds a bit like me since I emigrated, actually!) Conclusion: no need to take this bouts of disorganisation to-heart. Now't personal. Excellent. But in that case - 'let's name the puppy'... I vote we name her, Wanda (as in, A Fish Called,...(goldfish...box-office smash from the 80s). Or Dory, if you prefer? So, then....Anything to update yet?

No reply yet. Starting to think she'll take longer and longer to reply to me,in the hope I'll stop messaging her. Like I said before she's too polite to reject me outright. Am back over her way again next month so will ask again and see if I get a reply. If we do meet up I will mention the 'elephant in the room' about asking her out and see what happens. Either way I need to put an end to this as I need to move on as I can't keep waiting in hope for something to happen that won't. It'll be hard to get her out of my system but I'll get over her eventually. I need to or it'll stop me from meeting someone else. Just out of interest where did you emigrate to?

"No reply yet. Starting to think she'll take longer and longer to reply to me,in the hope I'll stop messaging her. Like I said before she's too polite to reject me outright." So you think that maybe she's trying to protect your 'working relationship', as in, industry colleagues, and therefore her industry reputation, by tip-toe-ing out whilst throwing fewer and fewer crumbs? If that were the case - that COULD be a part of it, as in, would explain the style of exiting gracefully-for-two. But I'm more interested in the motivation so...if that WAS what was going on, I still would stand by my suspicion that she finds you too tasty for comfort, as in, closeness equals danger...meaning, not nearly ready to re-enter the mating ground.....THOUGHT she was, so dove right in, including all that dolling-up effort (after all, it wasn't a blind date, she already knew what you were like and looked like), then got cold feet cos you were tastier than she remembered (honestly, I can tell she does like you a lot). That can happen because, obviously, when a woman is still someone's wife and believes there's still a point to loyalty (ignoring all other blokes as potential sexual-romantic mates) - she's not looking hard enough, is she. Nor sitting close enough. All of that. But...mmmmm.... that scenario, realistically viable as it is, isn't pinging with me....somehow. So.....no. "Am back over her way again next month so will ask again and see if I get a reply." Yeh! I would. And even if it were for intrigue's sake - I'd stick with it just for that because, what, then, have you to lose. And it's not like you're being a bit of a stalker because, TRUTHFULLY, if the women were working right, you'd know EXACTLY where you stood - AND WHY. Her inadequacy as a clear communicator to an even fundamental level, let alone adult, is now the cause. This is a VIABLE version of 'Look what you made me do', rather than a narcissistic, pretend one, because - you have rights. And Champion Chip-Nickers rule, hahahah. And if it's purely circumstances rendering her inadequate enough to be hurtful, flummoxing and frustrating, i.e. bloody painful (or it is a big-hearted type, anyway!), towards another human being then - ....you're supposed to mutually supply one another's needs, even when conversing. If he or she who's charged with supply your needs, is failing to supply them, then you have a right to supply them yourself. That's how I feel, anyway. She's being needlessly inconsiderate, if all she's taking into account is her-her and her job/career and not giving a thought to how this is impacting on YOU. You've been nothing but lovely towards her. Least she could do is put you straight. OR she's still successfully (hah!, that's what she thinks!) hiding the fact she's still 'on the ceiling', just not thinking, forgetting everything, including the passage of time, that sort of (post-abusive) thing, taking us back to, Right Person, Right Place, Wrong Time (game over - an' you wouldn' wannit any other way). "If we do meet up I will mention the 'elephant in the room' about asking her out and see what happens." Er............treat that as a very last resort, yeah? You could say, with a tone of regret - 'Have I put you off wanting to still be friends, with asking you out that time?'. But that would be you signing yourself up for going through the Friendship Door until such time as she regained her romantic confidence and mojo. "Either way I need to put an end to this as I need to move on as I can't keep waiting in hope for something to happen that won't." No. Course not. It was earlier-on that thinking of employing this tack was premature. Now it's nearing Appropriate Timing. I still don't see the Fat Lady having sung, though. There again, I won't if that's precisely what she's withholding. "It'll be hard to get her out of my system but I'll get over her eventually." Yeah. And don't worry - I can help with that. "I need to or it'll stop me from meeting someone else." Yeah, but this is the THING: Have you finished getting-over your LAST relationship yet? I mean - sure, you were a safe candidate from her POV, for her, but, likewise - she was for you, wasn't she. And look how much you've wanted that relationship that (presumably) came with greater guarantees of niceness and healthiness, than with perfect strangers. So the evidence shows me that you're NOT over things as much as you think you are... - pretty universal mis-conception and -perception, in fact...you THINK you're better..but NOT in the ALL Better way. Just better than you were LAST time you looked. In another 6 months you can find yourself saying, 'Hah!...There was me X months ago, thinking I was There/Done and All Better, but now I realise I wasn't because I can feel I feel even better AGAIN!'. And there's not just the person to get over. There's whole era, the 'wasted' years (not, actually), the life-map you had all planned-out....starting again from Square 1 (not, actually)....who am I, where am I, how did I get here, what do I do and where do I go NOW?.....all of that. Out of 10 - how heavily did that 'comes with guarantees of staying Nice'-ness aspect factor in your overall ardour? Trouble is, my not having enough data. If I knew what had happened, that'd make it easier to extrapolate to a conclusion/verdict (seriously, there are too many Hers out there for her to be identified via a life-predicament,...like finding a QUARK in a haystack). Wanna? I, personally, would like to KNOW why I still don't think feelings for you is the problem here or that the game's over. Saying that - as per my side-talk up there: with a woman as either cowardly or over-self-protective but definitely inconsiderate as all that - might you WANT the game over??? Awwww...go on, meanie...gimmie more info.... ;p "Just out of interest where did you emigrate to?" Espana! Why - where do you want to emigrate to?

I know ONE reason is because you haven't had 3 Nos. In fact, you've merely been getting: "Not right now, in a minute". Again, at Xmas - or AFTER Xmas - she could have just ignored your text altogether, and then, when, or if, bumping into you in the future, just lied for kindness's sake with something like, Oh gosh, I must have unmarked it by-mistake (etc) - well anyway, how have you been?

Hi SM I think another 'not right now, in a minute' will be a definitive, albeit politely put, big fat NO. Which obviously I'll accept no matter how hard it'll be. Still not heard back from her since I replied to her message saying she forgot to reply, which was a week ago. Back over her way towards the end of next month so will ask her for another coffee and see what the reply is/what happens. If we meet, like I said, I'll mention about asking her out, so hopefully I might get an honest reply from her once and for all, so at least I'll know for sure where I stand. Like I said I need to bring this to a conclusion somehow as I can't keep living in hope, waiting for something to happen or not, otherwise I won't be able to move on. Will let you know what happens.

In the meantime, why don't you put Fate, vis-a-vis her, to the test and just have a quick ganders on one of the better online dating sites, just to see what the market's like? E-Harmony, for example? You never know - ex-colleague might have been Fate's way of having occupied you just enough to slow your schedule down, because, say, the as-yet unseen love of your life's (or one of them's) time-schedule was lagging behind yours, meaning, you were in danger of missing her unless it found whatever guaranteed way to delay you? I know it sounds whacky, but it happens. A LOT. Or do you prefer real-life introductions via friends and whatnot? Additionally - question: has your interest in ex-colleague done you the favour of having taken your mind off your own ex-relationship?...acted as a bit of a buffer and helped you get over her more quickly? Just wondering - if, indeed, it turns out ex-colleague *isn't* an intended - what the point was, behind all this. I find literally everything happens for a reason. Food for thought?

(It's a right pain in the arse, dating, isn't it. I haven't had a date or anything for (gazes at fingers n toes) - actually WOAH - it's a full 8 years, literally TODAY! Woah. Schpookayyyyy timing..... Well, anyway. I'm beeping lovin' it with a capital L, living alone and being single. Was about time *I* got spoilt, for a bloody change. And I are. Very. Haha! And, no, I don't miss (cough!)-it. Despite, I never thought I would ever hear myself saying that. Yet I ARE! Tell you what, though ("what?") (excellent question!): it would take someone reeeeaallly special to make ME bother with all that malarchy again. You ever experienced a really decent period without dating?

The whole online dating thing has never really appealed to me, turning up for a date and finding out they don't look at all like their profile pic, that kinda thing. There isn't any ex I need to get over, so no problem there. Can't help thinking this is pretty much the 'end game' phase of this particular chapter though. There's questions I'd like the answers to that I'll probably never get, mainly how come she (usually) replied to my messages but never ever messaged me first (like I said before, just being polite ?) but that said why did she agree to meet up for a coffee after not seeing each other for 4 years (curiosity on her part ?). I also haven't helped myself by searching for online stories about people who got with their partners after initially been rejected by them more than once, therefore giving myself false hope. I've also visited a Psychic on more than one occasion an that didn't help either, seeing as I've been told that I'll end up with someone I'll be friends/friendly with first (tick),will meet someone that 'treats people with her hands'- she's a Carer, so helps wash/cream her clients (tick), and was also told by one that he saw a 'dark haired lady with a little boy running around her', and she's dark haired with 2 boys (tick), but again all I've done is prolong my longing for her and again given myself false hope. Plus she knows how I feel about her, so if she felt even the slightest bit the same, then surely something would've happened/ she'd have said something by now? Either way if we do meet up again like I said will mention about asking her out, see what her reply is, and if nothing comes of it then that'll be that and I'll have to move on.

(Just bumping you up)

"The whole online dating thing has never really appealed to me, turning up for a date and finding out they don't look at all like their profile pic, that kinda thing." Oh, god, tell me about it!....('Yeah, it was very nice of you to honour your (more attractive) twin's date with me, but, since I wasn't consulted, it's a Nnnnnyo'). "There isn't any ex I need to get over, so no problem there." Que? How does that work? You saying there isn't an ex or, there isn't any ex needs any getting over? "Can't help thinking this is pretty much the 'end game' phase of this particular chapter though." Yeah, but you've been saying that all along. "There's questions I'd like the answers to that I'll probably never get, mainly how come she (usually) replied to my messages but never ever messaged me first (like I said before, just being polite ?) but that said why did she agree to meet up for a coffee after not seeing each other for 4 years (curiosity on her part ?)." Mere curiosity doesn't doll up. And - that time she was available to take your text immediately...if she HADN'T been keen she'd have deliberately created a delay so's not to give you the wrong idea (- well, she would if she were a thoughtful and considerate type (or capable of-late of being so), whereas, she pounced on it. Trouble is, with her so poor at cooperative communication (indication of the team spirit that's vital for succeeding any relationship), and at behaviour that shows people where they stand, rather than stranding them in the dark - obviously something in her life/routine has happened that you haven't a clue about. Bar the promotion, of course (which, is a pretty big thing to have to take on when you're only freshly divorced). "I also haven't helped myself by searching for online stories about people who got with their partners after initially been rejected by them more than once, therefore giving myself false hope." Well, how do YOU know you haven't helped yourself? Maybe it's a favour you've done yourself? That's the whole issue here - you DON'T know and have no way OF knowing (yet). Therefore, you've no basis for claiming the hope is false, have you. (It's horrid being in the Mushroom position, isn't it.) "I've also visited a Psychic on more than one occasion an that didn't help either, seeing as I've been told that I'll end up with someone I'll be friends/friendly with first (tick),will meet someone that 'treats people with her hands'- she's a Carer, so helps wash/cream her clients (tick), and was also told by one that he saw a 'dark haired lady with a little boy running around her', and she's dark haired with 2 boys (tick), but again all I've done is prolong my longing for her and again given myself false hope." Well - clearly it DID help! I repeat...this might be Fate's deliberate delayer, meaning, something you'll in future raise a glass to. Try to relax about it. Do you have a regular pub or bar you go to every week? Could you do with more or better friends? Do you have a best mate, currently? Why not use the waiting time to make progress with that aspect, while you have the time and opprtunity to? "Plus she knows how I feel about her, so if she felt even the slightest bit the same, then surely something would've happened/ she'd have said something by now?" Nah, she only knows what you've CLAIMED to feel about her. Might all be hot air, right? (Divorcee - dented trust.) No - again, she could be passive when it comes to dating and let's the man have the stage (which is a canny thing to do, actually). ALSO, LET'S NOT FORGET all the updated advice going around since all that waking-up during the Lockdowns: Make them have to go slooowwwwww....lyyyyyyyyy (because the Iffies can't tolerate strolling or shuffling along so tend to bog-off early). Was that something that had occurred to you? "Either way if we do meet up again like I said will mention about asking her out, see what her reply is, and if nothing comes of it then that'll be that and I'll have to move on."ç I would keep it in mind, but see what unfolded first. Me, I'd say it casually, like this: 'So...just to check: we're just becoming friends, yes?'. PS: What about her - is she, or has she ever been, online?

There's nobody that needs getting over. She hasn't been promoted as far as I know and isn't divorced as never been married, the 2 kids are from 2 separate relationships from what I can remember. She's got a FB page(only visited it to see if she'd got a fella) but rarely updates it and I don't really do SM. Am trying to be more laid back about the whole thing and back over her way end of the month/early April so will let you know what happens.

Heya! Do you mean, no ex that requires any getting-over, or, no ex ergo no getting-over? She is bloody IS divorced - just not legally. If you've lived like marrieds, rent or have a mortgage together, and, even produced kids together (even just that!) - that's DOING marriage, so for me, it's - 'paper schmaper'. Yeah, not promotion, sorry - it was extra hours, wasn't it? Sorry, haven't got time to check back. 'You don''t really do SM'? Sorry - what? Yeah - go a bit AWOL, see if that makes a difference. April it is, then. ...Cos you don't know - you might have made her feel OVER-confident where you're concerned, where, taking you for granted's kicked-in? She's not impressing me, though. As a well-bred young lady. (Is she, you, or is she starting to put you off a bit?)

Nah,she's not putting me off. It's just the realisation on my part that I can't keep living in hope that something will happen when it probably won't or I'll never move on. Reaching out to her early April has to be the last time,as I can't keep doing this.

Can't you? I think you lack faith in yourself. (I don't call everyone Double Oh, you know...mleugh.) You're also thinking too Black & White about this. Why not find a happy medium and do what I used to do when I was hung-up on someone but getting nowhere yet simultaneously had too much basis for hope: Have a dating holiday, get all the stuff done that entering a new relationship would make too difficult (not necessarily sky-diving, but, hey, whatever haha, even just going for a promotion at work)...basically make Lemons out of that Lemonade. I call it Waiting Without Waiting. Look at it this way: you're that keen on her that it's going to take you a good 6 months (OR MORE!) until you can find yourself capable of fancying any face that isn't hers, ANYWAY. So you can either spend that 'mourning period' being miserable (- and for all we know, quite possibly for nothing!), or use it constructively. See what I'm saying? That way, you win another way, too, because - WHILE you're not seeing her, you'll naturally be detaching, meaning, by the time whatever-deadline you give it is up, you're 're-sparkable' should she suddenly reappear, yet won't really give a shite if she doesn't. (Did I put that comprehensibly?) What I'm saying is - neither stoke the fire nor chuck cold water on it. It's a balancing act, but - it's a VERY rare and exceptionally useful skill in all other areas (a life-changer/improver). Which is why it's not CALLED a skill, but a Virtue ("Aahh-aahh-aaaahh"). It's that or date her bff. (joke)

PS: I realise you meant Sadomasochism. Sorry, I wasn't sure because my online initials are SM. (Damn... at the time, I didn't think of that, HAHAHAHAHA!!)

(Have you never HAD to get spiritual and philosophical before? Are you a spiritual-philosophical virgin?)

Another thing I'd like to point out: "There isn't any ex I need to get over, so no problem there." Whereas - she DOES! Timesed TWO! (- cos the second one brings it all (the first one) back! ...innit, tho. (Lets get you capable of seeing everything from all angles, shall we? Double-Oh-Periscopic haha.)

...The name'sh, 'Shcopic'...'Peri Shcopic'.... stirrrrred, but nort shaken....

Used to always be a 'If it's meant to be,it'll be' type person but now 'What if,maybe,just maybe.....' creeps in and I think I hang on to that for too long now. Just gonna try and be chilled for the next 3/4 weeks then see what happens.

Well, she's frustrating ME now - aargh! Oh, for a crystal ball... Snaffaraffabloodystupidwomen. (joke) Well, anyway - from her point-of-view, all she knows is that you're being pleasantly interested but not especially. Like a new friend. Meanwhile, she's your free-of-charge, mental-muscle gym equipment (which, trust me, you're going to need, the older you get). Win/win. Thing IS, though...if nearer the time you found you could leave it TWO months, maybe, then, it might just make her wonder where you've gone (as in don't know what you've got until)...whether you've met someone (ooer).... Or 6 weeks, even. Because there IS a pattern of once-a-month already, right? Might be good to break it. Just a TEENSY push? Food for thought? If not - look forward to your update in April. :)

Yeah let you know what happens in April. Not really a pattern of once a month though,saw her about Oct/Nov then was over her way last month.

Well, I meant text contact too, but - in that case, if you want to jolt her a tad, it would have to be going AWOL for over THREE months. Scrap that, then. You're 'all up in the air' enough as it is. K - see ya April (though you can still post in the meantime if you need to, for, say, a top-up).

Hi SM Well after my last message to her I though she'd ignored, then I got a 'sorry just seen your message 'but nothing else after that. Can't remember how long ago that was as got a new phone and lost all my old messages, but earlier she messaged me saying 'I'm so bad ,didn't even see your messages', then asked me how I was and told me the firm we both worked at was getting taken over. My first reaction was that she'll ask about jobs at where I am now, as she'd previously enquired about it before, and that's the only reason she'd got in touch, but guess that was the pessimistic/paranoid(?) side of me. Anyway after a bit of to and fro discussing her work situation, she said she'd like to stay there and will see how it goes. Anyway I said I'm over her way in a couple of weeks if she fancied a coffee and she 'Yes let me know', so will see what happens' Gotta admit I'm still confused by it all, as she knows I really like her, made excuses about going out properly for a drink when I asked, I even told herhow really pretty I thought she was, wanted to get to know her better etc, yet she still agrees to meet for a coffee. Is just that she's being polite and too nice to make excuses not too meet?

Sorry to jump into the conversation so late. I will add that, I have not read this entire exchange, but browsed through these replies. But I figured I could give my read on the situation. So first of all, I want to say that I don't think you were in the wrong at all for taking initiative and opening up to this woman. I think our society is confusing and overcomplicates things, and likes to make people feel cringe for expressing themselves. Everything you did was fine. The only criticism I might give is that maybe you acted a bit fast, and could have met up a couple more times on a platonic basis before deciding to invite her out on something more romantic. I think the simple fact that she wanted to chat and hang out for 90+ minutes is a good sign. At the very least you could infer that she was having a good time, and didn't mind being there for a longer length of time than a quick meet-up. Whether or not she could see you as more than a former coworker and friend, I don't know, but she really enjoyed catching up with you again. Now I will say I've spent longer amounts of time on dates, and shorter amounts of time, alike. But I would definitely say you fell within the threshold for a hangout that went well. I would say if it was like an hour or less, maybe it's a no-go - unless the person in question had a very busy and hectic schedule. The only way I would dock points here is if you went to see a movie or a live show together, and that's where most of the time accumulated during. Women are very complicated, though. It's hard to say what her perspective is on things for sure. One of the better dates I got to go on, nearly a decade ago now, I thought things went really well. We went for Thai food and talked, walked around the local mall and I bought her a cute pair of earrings, and when we left there was no indication that things didn't go well. I drove home, and only when I got there a few hours later realized she'd sent a message informing me that she just didn't feel any sort of connection and that it really wasn't anyone's fault. I felt crappy at first, but after thinking about it for a few days, I realized she was right. We didn't click in THAT way. And I obviously didn't love Thai food the way she seemed to. Ended up being texting friends with that woman for several years after the fact. I guess anymore if I am single and talk to a new woman, I kind of assume from the get-go that she has some kind of partner or sexual partners in her life anyway. I had another female friend who kind of caught me off-guard revealing that, all the while she complained about not being able to find a boyfriend, she had this dude she was regularly meeting up with for several years. I'm not saying your lady friend has some similar situation, but it's just, you never know what kind of personal life a person really has.

Hi Thanks for the input. Yeah I know I screwed up asking her out formally after meeting her for the first time in 4 years. Knew straight away I should've met up platonically 2 or 3 times before asking her out. Pretty sure she doesn't have a partner or presumably she'd have told me as a way of letting me know she wasn't interested in me. Plus there's nothing on her Facebook page showing a partner. The whole thing is really confusing me.

Keep some distance for now and don't press things. I wouldn't keep texting on and on, endlessly. Your next text might be on a day when you're free and need to/want to go out her way, and stop for some coffee. I'd keep things light and surface level when you do go for coffee. Catch up on things, talk about life and work a bit, ask about hers. You could take a moment somewhere during the meeting to maybe touch base on things regarding the elephant in the room, and reiterate that you didn't mean to make her uncomfortable and want to make sure you're both cool. I just wouldn't dwell too long on that subject. And don't get deep with it, again just keep it light. And then be able to return to more casual conversation after bringing that up. If she wants to discuss things any further than that, it's up to her. But I'd mostly use the opportunity to reinforce a safe friend-environment with her. Look at it as an opportunity to catch up since your last meet up, and refresh things. You're essentially hitting the refresh button on your browser, to update the news headlines. If she isn't able to meet for coffee the first time or two you extend the invite, I wouldn't let it discourage you. Especially if there are other things you can find to go and do out her way, even if you'd just enjoy stopping there to enjoy a coffee yourself. Turn the experience into self-love. I guess if you reach a point where you extend a third invite and she's still not interested in actually going, then I wouldn't bother her to go for coffee again. Obviously, put some time between these attempts. A couple days, or a week or so. She will likely mention when a good day or time would be for her, at least after the second attempt. Another idea is, it might not be a bad idea to do an outing (like coffee or lunch) with another friend or coworker, just for the heck of it. You can use the experience as a palate-cleanser, and a chance to evaluate your behavior and topics of discussion when you're out and about with someone who you feel no romantic interest in. It might help you center yourself a little better for that eventual meeting, and maybe you'll notice ways in which you could be more platonic and chill. And if it's a friend you haven't given enough attention to lately, or a coworker who you can discuss some business things with, then that's win-win. Just a random idea.

"Another idea is, it might not be a bad idea to do an outing (like coffee or lunch) with another friend or coworker, just for the heck of it. You can use the experience as a palate-cleanser, and a chance to evaluate your behavior and topics of discussion when you're out and about with someone who you feel no romantic interest in. It might help you center yourself a little better for that eventual meeting, and maybe you'll notice ways in which you could be more platonic and chill. And if it's a friend you haven't given enough attention to lately, or a coworker who you can discuss some business things with, then that's win-win. Just a random idea." Yeah, that's a good idea, actually. Or might be (see below). But Balance, please do in future read the entire thread so that you have the full picture. Ta. :) ______________________ "Hi SM" Hey Marpster! "Well after my last message to her I though she'd ignored, then I got a 'sorry just seen your message 'but nothing else after that." Okay... that's just Flaky. What was the timelag between your message and her empty sorry, even? "Can't remember how long ago that was as got a new phone and lost all my old messages," Aww, WHAAT? Is that a sign? "but earlier she messaged me saying 'I'm so bad ,didn't even see your messages', then asked me how I was and told me the firm we both worked at was getting taken over." Do you mean, earlier than the empty sorry? I'm a bit confused (but maybe it'll become clearer as I read on...). "My first reaction was that she'll ask about jobs at where I am now, as she'd previously enquired about it before, and that's the only reason she'd got in touch, but guess that was the pessimistic/paranoid(?) side of me." Discouraged, you mean? *** "Anyway after a bit of to and fro discussing her work situation, she said she'd like to stay there and will see how it goes. Anyway I said I'm over her way in a couple of weeks if she fancied a coffee and she 'Yes let me know', so will see what happens.*** Gotta admit I'm still confused by it all, as she knows I really like her, made excuses about going out properly for a drink when I asked, I even told herhow really pretty I thought she was, wanted to get to know her better etc, yet she still agrees to meet for a coffee. Is just that she's being polite and too nice to make excuses not too meet?"" Or just can't at this juncture, hence ISN'T just leaving your texts completely unanswered-Amen? Don't really know because I'm confused as to the timeline of the above (***). Could you do me a favour and clarify the order of most recent events (if they even are the most recent - I can't even tell)?

The intial 'sorry didn't see your message' followed by nothing was maybe 3/4 weeks ago (can't remember for sure), then yesterday she got in touch again.

Well, it is a good sign that she reached out to you after that long pause. At least she didn't intentionally just leave you hanging. How are things going since yesterday? What are your thoughts about doing a dry-run of the coffee outing with another acquaintance first?

We don't work together anymore,not for 4 years. Just gonna see what happens next time we meet. Will raise the subject of the'elephant in the room' and just drop something in to the conversation along the lines of'Sorry if asking you out on a date last time might have made things a bit awkward but you know I've always had a soft spot for you and the offers always there if you ever change your mind' and will leave it at that. I've asked her out before,told her via message how pretty she is and how I'd like to get to know her better,so can't do anymore than that, so the balls in her court so if nothing comes of it I'll just have to accept it and move on.