Should I or shouldn’t I

Husband came home in the afternoon and said, Can I ask you a favour. In the morning we had ignored each other because the day before we had been arguing over things and it all just made me upset and I started shouting. I was shouting loudly when we were having a walk and he slepted down stairs from me like he has done many times in the past. He didn’t make my breakfast or sandwiches which he usually does and we did not say one word or send a message to each other all day. He did not ask how I was or to go out and talk it was just about the money straight away when he came home. I blew my top. Our son was upstairs but I could not help but feel angry and shouted and I think that he only wanted to talk to borrow money off me. He needs £300 to put down for a deposit on a car he needs for work. He already as a car but it needs alot doing on it and it has done a lot if mileage too. He says he would pay me back which would be next week when he gets paid. He needs a car for work because he travels a lot and he borrowed over £1,000 last year from me and he said he would pay it back but I have still not got it from him. We were supposed to be staying away for the night tomorrow to go to the theatre and away on holiday two days later. He paid for the holiday and the theatre is a gift when it was his birthday from our kids. I have a car but he still needs one for his job and mine is very small so not ideal for long travelling. I told him to ask our son who has money saved and he said forget it. I’m so f….n annoyed because I seem to come in handy when he wants money and I know I will get the £300 back but I never did with the other money I lent him and never will. He is only asking me because I got left some money when my mum died. I don’t have much left of the money and he asked his boss could he lend some money but it won’t be in account until a couple of days. I don’t want to give him it because I’m so angry and annoyed the first words out of his mouth were, Can I ask you a favour. If I knew I was not going to get the £1,000 back I would not if ever borrowed him it last year. I think he won’t ask our son because he as not been really talking to him and if he asks him for money, our son might think why all of a sudden his dad wants to know him when he hasn’t been really talking to him. If he does not get the car then he won’t have it for work and the one he has now will not last much longer. We can still go to the theatre and to the holiday in my car but its small and compact and I’ve never travelled far in it. His car has always been bigger because of his job. He is a sales man and spends most of his time travelling and in his car so he as always wanted a better car got himself because if this. He didn’t ask me how I got on when I told him I gave blood when I haven’t been able to give it the past couple of times. I had told him I gave it but he didn’t asked how it went. He said he didn’t ask because we started arguing over other things but I told him about giving blood before the arguing began. He has no savings at all and gets paid at the end of each month. He said if I asked him for the money he would borrow me it. What should I do. Lend him the money but know he doesn’t care how I am or how I’m feeling and feel like a bank to him or let him ask our son if he does ask him?

I am totally confused about all this lending money between spouses. There is no sense of unity at all. His car his job my money his money. Its not even the household. How you all gonna pay the bills if he doesnt have a job?

What do you think of him not asking me how I was or to go out and talk ?

Jessy (hi) - think about, what it had to mean YOU were (or were no longer) feeling, for YOU to completely fail to ask after HIM like that (and lie illogically afterwards about why)? Describe what you'd have to feel for a person for that to happen (and all the rest of the crap)? PS: Sales Rep?....not being provided with the tool of the trade, namely, a company car?...including it's regular upkeep and repair? Huh? How does THAT work and since when was THAT the case?

You still there, Jessy? Neither of my questions were rhetorical, if that's what you thought?

Hi Jessy, The complicated financial issues you're describing sound a bit familiar. I think a lot of families have similar issues, unfortunately. Omtz nailed it with their response about there being no sense of unity with your money. So breaking it down into basics here, it sounds like your husband needs this vehicle to make a living, correct? What does he sell at his salesman job? Does he need to have a lot of space to carry the product in the vehicle? If so, I can understand why he might need a larger vehicle. But honestly, a smaller car typically gets better gas mileage and would be better-suited for long-distance travel than a larger vehicle. You could, if you don't need to drive as much, let your husband drive your vehicle if it will suffice. And if he won't be upset because he needs a bigger sort of vehicle for the job. Maybe you could drive his car that needs work done on it, if you don't have to drive as far? Honestly, if you think your son is the best bet for asking for help, then you could ask him yourself if you think he could help out. But he may have his own reasons/things he's saving money for, and might feel uncomfortable knowing he might not get paid back for it. Of course, if your husband is working and bringing in money with a new vehicle, then maybe you will be able to repay your son? ...Another thing to consider is, is being a sales rep your husband's only viable option for work? Granted, maybe he's been doing it for a while and it's what he knows? And hey, maybe that's his thing and he loves doing it. But if it's hard on the car and leads to more financial woes down the road, then maybe he can consider alternatives? I am also curious about whether you have a job and are bringing in money. You mentioned the money you received from your mother's passing, (sorry to hear about that, by the way.) but do you have your own regular source of income? It might be really difficult for the two of you to get by if only one of you is working. ...And again, not trying to be judgy or accusatory or anything here, I just think it's a fair question to ask in the grand scheme of things. Lastly, people are only human. It's understandable that it was hurtful to you when your husband didn't ask how things went giving blood, (is that plasma? For help with money?) and when he didn't do his usual ritual of making you breakfast and sandwiches. There could be any number of reasons why those things didn't happen, and financial and work-related stresses could easily be one of them. Arguing is one I can relate to as well, as that can veer conversations off-course pretty easily. The best thing to do is give each other some space, and come back and talk about things again later. Has he talked with you about you giving blood in the time since you posted this thread? Did he figure out the job/car/money situation yet?

Did you miss this bit, Bal? "He needs a car for work because he travels a lot and he borrowed over £1,000 last year from me and he said he would pay it back but I have still not got it from him." On that basis, I don't think encouraging "Spongy Bob" to take money off his own (obviously young enough to still be living at home) son would be a healthy or appropriate thing...not until he's paid his wife back that 1k.

Jessy, do you want to give him a thorough frisking, even just to rule out Narcissism and/or Sociopathy? Note that the behaviour has to be Pervasive/a Pervasive Pattern (drip-drip-drip), not a once in a very Blue Moon occurence. The exception is a tsunami (splosh!), a Dealbreaker type of one-off that no-one with any self-respect could move past. ((Note: My Asterisk-ing of expletives, and comments, in double-brackets)) Take all the time you need... _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Google something like, "Narcissistic Husband - Trying to press the Relationship Reset Button", and, "Narcissistic Husband - The Silent Treatment". https://www.reddit.com/r/NarcissisticSpouses/comments/1hd987c/is_it_a_n_trait_to_hurt_someone_then_act_like/ "Is it a N trait to hurt someone then act like nothing happened and you should've moved on already?" r/NarcissisticSpouses • 10 mo. ago Efficient_Fan_8630 The man I'm currently talking to often does this thing, which if described shortly goes like this: First, he gets angry at something, argue, have a tantrum. Say nasty stuff, call names (mind you, all only from his side). Situations may vary, but it's the same mechanics. Then, after some time (the length is proportional to the gravity of the situation lol), he gets back in touch like nothing happened and proceeds like normal. If I say that I can't just pretend like all is ok, I am hurt and feel like I deserve an apology, he would reply with "well the fact I am talking now with you is already like an apology. I have already moved on, can't hang on to negativity for too long, would have to off myself if I did. Besides, you are also responsible for the argument". If I say that I was in the exact same argument, but didn't raise the voice, didn't insult him, tried to have an actual discussion in a calm way, he doesn't feel shame or guilt. This is so ridiculous, I can't even begin describing the lack of insight in this logic. Literally, both his parents were complaining to me about the same exact treatment. So is it also a narc thing? Tbh, I'm already convinced it is, I would like to hear other stories. I also need help to further convince myself that I need to send this man away... For context: This man who is currently trying to get married with me is also my ex from many years ago. I remained friendly after he left me twice in '17 over alleged feelings for another woman. During the years I ended up working with this man, and I have noticed some traits that I thought are narcissistic. I didn't care, I was in another relationship then, but I'm not anymore. He took it as his chance to get me back. I gave him a possibility but he continuously finds ways to f*ck it up through hurting me and doing weird stuff." ________________________ u/recovery-06062019 avatar recovery-06062019 • 10mo ago They always want us to just move on when they’re in the wrong. Yet, when they’re displeased with us, they rake us over the coals about it. Again and again, I will be reminded of past mistakes. Old stuff would be brought up if nothing in the present to ridicule me for. No real apologies from them. They say things like, “I’m sorry you got your feelings hurt.” WTH? That is not an apology. See how he made it my fault in just that sentence? The problem was my feelings, not HIS behavior. His suggestion is that I remove those feelings and we wouldn’t have a problem! It’s the whole mentality behind it. This sounds like trademark Narcissism. Refusing to take responsibility. Wait until he blames you for HIM calling you, bad names! Mine would fly off calling me a B@ or Idiot, Retard etc. I was just supposed to get over it. All that stuff will affect your self- esteem. It’s a mind F!! One minute they’re making love to you and 30-min later calling you names and ending the relationship because you said you wanted to do something different with your time or had a different preference than they do. I now know that this was not love. Love does not hurt, Love heals. Period. 9 ________________________ NotTodayPinchePuto • 10mo ago Yupppp…if they’ve moved on from it even if they are the perpetrator then you shouldn’t talk about old news In their mind, they have every right to abuse and insult you and do whatever the fuck they want to you and you have no right to complain. If you do you can get the f*ck out so they can replace you with someone else. Absolutely pieces of shit. I don’t know why god or the universe or whatever doesn’t strike them down with lightning. 7 Glass-Sentence-7225 • 10mo ago I agree that they are pieces of shit, but I suspect that inside they are like children who are insecure, needy and very vulnerable and use us to feel more confident. My narc has a history of neglect as a child and his mother was abusive. I am sorry about his past, but I am not here to fix his issues by him draining me. Why can't they just interiorize their pain instead of attacking us? We are not their therapists or punching bags. 5 ________________________ Glass-Sentence-7225 • 10mo ago I agree that they are pieces of shit, but I suspect that inside they are like children who are insecure, needy and very vulnerable and use us to feel more confident. My narc has a history of neglect as a child and his mother was abusive. I am sorry about his past, but I am not here to fix his issues by him draining me. Why can't they just interiorize their pain instead of attacking us? We are not their therapists or punching bags. 5 ________________________ u/definitelytheA avatar definitelytheA • 10mo ago It’s not a “narc trait,” it’s their SIGNATURE MOVE!! My narc loves the silent treatment, followed by pretending it didn’t happen. I think he’s gone 3 weeks before. Of course he ends up being miserable. It’s not fun for me, either, because I’d rather just get along, but I have neighborhood friends I talk to while walking my dog everyday. I’m not suffering from loss of interaction. Funny thing, and I’ve actually done this, is I can say as little as one sentence to him. Anything, really, that sounds conversational, and he is like a floodgate opening. Both of our situations stem from one of the core narc tenets. They will not apologize. They cannot bring themselves to admit they are wrong. If they utter the words “I’m sorry,” it is always conditional. “I’m sorry you feel that way.” “I know I’m not wrong, but I’ll apologize if it makes you feel better.” “I’m sorry I lied, but it’s your fault I had to.” All I can tell you is that the cognitive dissonance eats you from the inside out. It’s exactly like being married to an insolent 13yo who hates you, but you’re also their parent, so you also have to feed and clothe them and give them rides to school, while they tell you they hate you (if not verbally, they make that clear). ((Bloody well put!)) Let a friend or neighbor come around, and they’re gregarious, cheerful, and the perfect spouse with a perfect relationship others should envy. You’re not married to this narc? Save yourself!! 6 ________________________ Glass-Sentence-7225 • 10mo ago • Edited 10mo ago Oh wow, my narc husband is the same. To others he looks like the perfect husband. Last time we went out with friends he even opened the car door to me. If I get the courage to escape, I am sure they will tell me things like, but he seemed so nice! I always tell him why he can't treat me nicely like he does with others. Like our recent fight yesterday was because he said I interrupted him when I heard a pause and thought he was done talking. I recorded him talking to a neighbor later on, and paid close attention and the neighbor occasionally talked over at times, but of course he doesn't notice that he only notices it with me. I mean why does he have to treat everyone else so nicely, and then the person that matters the most in his life he treats like trash? ((Short answer FYI: (Amongst other reasons) because these types are Coverts (incl. 'Vulnerables'), meaning, their 'impressive, admirable, Good Guy/Gal' image being believed is their 'Oxygen', meaning, their abusiveness (incl. or especially Neglect) towards you is always without witnesses. Whereas, Narcissistic-Sociopaths, whom tend ALSO to be financial parasites and power-crazed controllers (rather than insecurity-based), don't want any potential next/additional long-con victim(s) to become aware of their true character, be scared-off and inform everyone else in that victim-pool (whereupon they'd have to change areas/countries to find a new, ignorant victim...and they're usually particularly lazy). Although Malignant Coverts will financially exploit/abuse, too, they do it in a more subtle and/or convoluted fashion and/or in pettier amounts - "oops, forgot my wallet - you pay"; hiding their true (far higher) salary figure; secret savings account; charging you way more than 50% of the rent, etc., etc. - asking outright to be loaned money would be too overt and 'crass' to a "superiority-crazed" Covert Narc. Not so a "power-crazed" Narc-Sociopath...they over-use (google "Dr Martha Stout -) "The Pity Ploy". Also: 'straight' Narcs care so incredibly much about what everyone thinks of them, that they even care whether their only-just-emotionally-beaten-up/financially exploited victim still thinks they're wonderful(!). Not so a Narc-Spath; their conscience isn't nearly strong enough to stop them and secretly they don't give a sh*t what you think or how you feel. I.e. (Narc) Constant Ego-Boosts (while deny-deny-denying) plus Other-Person-Destructive -v- (Narc-Spath) Leeching/Getting Things They Want No Matter Who/What Gets Hurt & Sod Morals & Consequences, I'll Just Lie My Way Out Of It & Evoke Pity As Usual, plus, Other- AND SELF-Destructive. But that's the thing with ALL Narc types: even THEY can't stop themselves so - what hope do YOU, THE VICTIM, have?..)) ________________________ u/definitelytheA avatar definitelytheA • 10mo ago Image management. They tend to it like a master gardener. A friend I walk with daily said to me once that he always seems like a great guy, but that she gets it, because she was married to a “great guy” for 40 years that never treated her with love, and honestly, couldn’t be bothered to even talk to her most of the time. ________________________ WhatsHighFunctioning • 10mo ago My (hopefully soon to be ex-wife) once shouted/screamed the following apology at me: “Yes I fucked three guys last December!!! There you go!!! Yes I lied to your face!!! I’m sorry!!! Are you happy now!!?!! She considered this an actual apology. LoL narcs. Sometimes you can only laugh so you don’t have to feel the pain. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ((Google "Narcissistic-Sociopathic Husband borrowing money")) "What is your experience with narcissist or psychopaths with their financial affairs? Are they inherently all as pathologically miserly, shady and controlling with money as my ex partner?" _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Briana Ingola · Follow recovering after escaping life with a covert narcissist 7y In my experience my ex partner is certainly obsessive over certain areas of his life, with an excessive need to control his environment, particularly financial. Financial abuse is his leaning, where in a domestic setup he controlled & dominated by exploitative means. Secretiveness, duplicity, deviousness and withholding important paperwork and information are his mechanisms employed to guard his finances. Unlike some more balanced (or ‘successfully treated’ narcissists) mine has an obsession with money, and it is absolutely his currency that buys his domination and control within intimate relations. He masks his greed with a ‘good guy’ liberal, left wing anti-capitalist charade, but if it hit the news boy would he be shown up to be the opposite: the average corporate con-man. In my case a red flag I missed, is that his money mind was illustrated by a propensity for a trail of previous high status girlfriends (to deflect his low self esteem and feelings of shame & worthlessness he attached himself to ‘objects’ that bring him an elevated sense of status).,, ones who had nice apartments in wealthy neighbourhoods, ones who had nice cars and careers and cash flow to take him on vacations or allow him to half live with them ( while he played away the rest of the time), women who he had no intention whatsoever of committing to women who gave him work leads and career promotions He told me this as fact whilst telling in the same breath “But you’re different”, and “ you have nothing to worry about” Yeah - I did have a lot to worry about. I had a lot to lose, and he orchestrated it. As does the next victim & so-on As a side story, I love the story of Mildred Pearce. That gorgeous young buck she meets sweeps her off her feet, latterly bankrupts Mildred’s business & self started success. The gorgeous young man portrays a narcissist : self entitled, deceptive, vain & emotionally dead. He coldly destroys everything she has built for herself and openly shared with him. ((That's a Narc-Spath she's talking aout. Certainly, Narcs want to suck the joie de vivre out of you then leave you on the floor ("I'm so amazing s/he can't get over me, hah!"), but - Narc-Spaths don't tend to end *relationships*, they instead (attempt to) destroy the partner, i.e., the biggest piece of evidence.)) Fictional stories such as these are created from real life experiences. Real life is more stranger ((sic - 'more strange' or 'stranger', not both :p)) than fiction especially where a narcissist treads. The ex-h hides & compulsively hoards money, he took my money and trust, then falsified legal papers due to me during our marriage, which rendered them null & void, left me in a vulnerable position without ANY power, and point blank refused to negotiate over anything concerning joint decisions that involved money during our relationship. Only a strong legal team have been able to penetrate his thick walls of defence. He’s terrified of exposure, & I now have ALL the info & empowered to do so. He controlled e v e r y t h i n g financially. He contradicted himself by requesting my input, complaining I didn’t give enough input , then overruled me anyway because he wanted to own everything which he is always & obsessively at pains to remind me of at every available opportunity.thats the crazy making soup of a narc. “ I paid for that! That cost me x-amount! Do you know how much that cost?!” I pay for everything?!” Yah he insisted he did. So he could do the righteous tirade. With boots on. And a mustache. Get it? If I ever did anything without his prior knowledge such as choose a paint colour, move the furniture, change a light he would go into a cycle of denigration that lasted weeks. He hated it if I paid for things or instructed change. Like another writer experienced he also pretended, and claimed to be struggling. This was a blatant lie. When my Mother provided support for one of my childs education as a loan that he didn’t even need, he actually said aloud, “ she’ll never see that again” ((Yup - definitely a Narc-Spath IMO! A Covert wouldn't risk GOING NEAR outright exposing themselves like that, whereas... google "Narc-Sociopath (or, 'Narc-Psychopath') - Duper's Delight" (or "the Sociopathic Reveal (or, Tell").)) I guess he applied that rule de regeur, he was born to take and ignore the rules of society. Because in his head he’s above us mere mortals that do. I cannot YET disclose the full depth to which he has cleaned me out financially. The lengths he has gone to hide information and dupe me & our children into a complete misrepresentation of his wealth, and his moral / political leaning. This man is no more a social politically correct do-gooder than a ravenous piranha. It’s all part of the new man image which is a total scam. Take - take - take - take. That is his mantra, which will go under his favourite phrase on his epitaph: “DONT INTERRUPT ME I’m talking !!’” _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Lastly, but not 'leastly', ... Google, "Why a Sociopath has no intention of paying you back". ((Answer by AI) "A sociopath has no intention of paying you back because of a lack of empathy, a weak conscience, and a tendency to manipulate others for personal gain. They may see borrowing money as an opportunity to take advantage of someone without remorse, and a promise to repay is just a tool to achieve their immediate goals, not a genuine commitment. Lack of empathy: Sociopaths struggle to understand or care about the feelings and needs of others, including the person they borrowed money from. Weak conscience: They have a poor or absent sense of right and wrong, which allows them to deceive and manipulate people without feeling guilt. Manipulation for personal gain: They use charm, lies, and manipulation to get what they want, including financial gain. The promise to pay back is simply a means to that end, not a true promise to be kept. Impulsivity: Sociopaths can be impulsive and prioritize their own immediate desires over any long-term obligations or promises they've made." ________________________ https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/antisocial-personality-disorder-aspd "Depending on the severity of the disorder, a sociopath tends to have difficulty exhibiting empathy or caring about others. A weak conscience or moral compass allows them to deceive and manipulate those around them. They can also be hostile and impulsive, and they may not feel remorse for their actions. Sociopaths are prone to self-destructive acts and may experience frequent legal troubles. Unsurprisingly, those considered sociopaths also tend to have poor relationships with friends, family, and romantic interests. If your loved one has antisocial personality disorder, you may find yourself persistently hurt by their lack of concern. They may lie about finances, for example, or steal from you whenever it serves them. You might have a difficult time knowing when to trust them and when to push them away. You may even live in fear that their actions could cause you physical harm. A sociopath is unlikely to seek help for their condition. It’s more common that they’ll refuse to take responsibility for their behavior, and simply brush off the damage they’ve caused to those around them. However, they may seek treatment as part of a court-ordered punishment, or if they experience hardships due to their self-destructive behavior. By understanding more about ASPD, you can learn to identify sociopaths, set boundaries to protect yourself, and offer guidance to a loved one seeking help. Symptoms of a sociopath Some estimates show that antisocial personality disorder appears in 1 to 4 percent of the population ((- pff!, yeah, AND the rest!)). But how can you tell if someone is a sociopath? According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), if someone has this disorder, they will exhibit three or more of the following seven symptoms before 15 years of age: A disregard for social norms when it comes to laws. A sociopath may regularly steal or break traffic laws without concern. Deceitfulness. They are quick to lie to you and others. They may con people out of money or simply withhold information, leaving you in the dark about their actions. Impulsive behavior. Someone with ASPD may suddenly walk off a job on a whim, or engage in binge drinking and risky sexual behavior, for example. Aggression. They may often seem irritable or lash out in verbally or physically abusive ways. You might see them throw things against walls or erupt in bouts of name-calling and swearing. Disregard for their own safety and the safety of others. A person with antisocial personality disorder might have a habit of driving recklessly or carelessly handling firearms. Irresponsibility. They may not bother to pay back borrowed money or show up in court, and may walk away from such responsibilities with a sense of entitlement or arrogance. Lack of remorse. They seem indifferent to the pain or inconvenience any of the above has caused to others." ((article continues...)) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ It's a lot of information (and possibly shock) to take in so, as I say, take all the time you need. :) But I thought it was important that any followers of your thread in your same boat got some Closure.