Trust and boundary issues with gf and long time friend

I've had a bit of a difficult and complicated situation with both my girlfriend and a long time close male friend. It started when we started dating and one night she met me at a bar after we had gone on date the day or two before. We were talking at the bar and my friend approaches us as we were talking and basically barges into the conversation and quickly asks for her social media. I can already see where this is headed and I'm already upset about it as it seemed obvious that this was someone I was interested in and starting to see, though I hadn't informed him of our previous date, either way I thought it was in poor taste. Then we discuss an event going on later that night and I had an obligation so I wouldn't be able to get there until a little later, but made my intention known that I was going to take her to it. He then suggests that she should go early with him instead. I'm kind of pissed off about this but I stay cool and she ends up going there later with me instead. Prior to us going there, he added her on social media and asked her to go to dinner with him before this event. She didn't end up going and shared this info with me. The kicker is I know he is constantly unfaithful in his relationship which given his invite and her seeing that through social media, he kind of outed himself and I confirmed it, even though I usually keep it to myself. He saw us together at the event and after seeing us, he seemed to back off. I lost so much respect for him and felt betrayed so I became very distant from him but never confronted him over this (until much later). There was never really a reaction of shock or disgust from her and as time went on it seemed like she was enamored by him but she always told me she was never into him etc. It always felt like there was some kind of tension between them but I'll leave it at that for now. About a year in I decided to break up with her for various reasons. She immediately contacted him that day to say she wanted to join a team with him and that we had broken up (and if that would be okay, or at least that was reason she told me she informed him of that). A week later we get back together with the promise that she was going to change and we'd make effort to make the relationship better. I told her she needed to be honest with me and tell me if she had dated/hooked up with anyone during the time we were apart as this would be a deal breaker for me. She told she she had not. At least 3 months later she confesses to me one night that during that week my friend asked her out for dinner and drinks and that she was going to meet up with him but we got back together before that was going to happen. I felt so betrayed and angry that I blocked him on everything and I also felt betrayed by her. This was my biggest fear that something like this was happening or going to happen and I also felt betrayed by her as well. She framed it as an innocent meet up and that "she just needed to get out of the house" and meant nothing by it. Knowing the context, I just couldn't buy that. Eventually he confronted me and gave his side of the story and showed me the messages (and there were quite a lot of them) which showed she had initially pushed for the meetup to happen, not him (though he agreed to it). His explanation was that he was just trying to be there for a friend and that in the beginning he didn't know I was interested in her or seeing her, but confessed that he wanted her when we first met. Since then it feels like both of them were pointing the finger at each other, it was just a friendly meetup and nothing happened, they didn't sleep with each other or anything else so I should just let it go and basically pretend like it didn't happen. I confronted her on the messages (which she never showed me and also told me she deleted them) and she never had a good explanation and the many times I tried to talk about the issue further she just gets defensive, argumentative and says there's nothing else for her to say. She didn't seem repentant and blames him. At most she says she just wishes it never happened but has never reassured me and doesn't seem to have the capacity to even try to. There have been times since then where we have hung out and she seems to gush over him and when I've brought it up she says "i'm just jealous", "he such a nice guy" etc. They didn't know each other at all before we met and prior to the breakup, she didn't really know him all that well or at the very least would not be considered a close friend. This makes it so suspicious that she did this behind my back and her reasoning makes no sense. I feel like I'm being played for a fool here and I probably ruminate about this situation on an almost daily basis and feel like I have to keep it to myself due to trying to protect my friend. Had I known this was happening at the time we were getting back together (versus getting revealed months later), I would have never considered it and now it just eats at me and I feel like i've made the wrong decision and other people wouldn't subject themselves to this. If she broke up with me I wouldn't even consider hanging out or pursuing one of her close friends and I view doing so just trashy and low down and yet I'm supposed to accept it.

No no no Jarvis, you don't have to accept it. The thing that you have to realise is that neither of these people belong in your life as they're not on your page. Your 'close' friend isn't any sort of a friend if he goes behind your back & is rude enough to do so in front of you as well. Where's his respect? Your GF?!? isn't anything to write home about either if she shares his standards. It's because of who they are & their actions singularly or together that your trust is being eroded & your gut is talking to you & telling you that all is not well. So your GF is only loyal to you if you pair are a couple, but where's her heart? When someone gets defensive & argumentative, especially with matters of the heart, there's a good chance they're hiding something, but then again, why would you waste your time with it? & anyway they always blame someone else for their dramas..it's always someone else's fault & never theirs & they never accept responsibility for their own actions. Your best bet is to break up & for a real good reason too, & just wonder off into the sunset until you bump into someone who shares your values & standards & who will respect you for who you are. Your GF has shown you where you stand with her & her lies & bs should be a deal breaker hands down...& Jarvis, understand that she'll never change no matter what she says.

Agree totally and Utterly-Butterly with Manalone, Jarvis! He is BANG-on! There's just one word missing: The name of the (fruit-loopy) elephant: Narcissists. - You're a Diamond (like everyone here - she's a Malignant Narc (hence employing a sadistic level of Narc Triangulation by poking your still-bleeding wounds), showing she can't emotionally bond (Attachment Disorder) thus has zero loyalty, Machievellianism, Victim-isolating (getting rid of (what they think are) your friends and potential reality-checkers), etc., etc. (will elaborate once my internet can load properly again; got probs at the mo), and - he's a (pff!) 'Benign' Narc (the over-entitlement, 'above the rules', 'shove you out the way' dog-eat-dog bits). They're ticking far too many boxes. FAAAAR too many! It's because you're a Diamond (join the club). They want only the BEST for 'their Highnesses', see. They can't function relationally enough to KEEP the diamond, let alone keep up the fake act for long enough that too are diamonds. So they start chipping you and even playing Footie with you so that you'll bit-by-bit (or in one whack) cease being so (unknowingly) impressively sparkly (and get 'stolen' from them) (usually by another user or Narc),...AND because it's fun(!)... plus, there is then far less contrast between them (dirty rocks) and you (precious diamond), whichh is so that they can carry on pretending they're superior to everyone INCLUDING YOU. Simple As. So don't feel like the sh*t you're being treated like. it's not that you're not all-over gorgeous enough, it's that you're "too" gorgeous. hey're not anywhere NEAR your league! You may disagree? But that doesn't change the fact because - the evidence says so....including the fact that YOU would never do this, nor that, nor that, etc. (nor us lot here..because we're Empaths, the opposite of Narcs). You wanna aim much-much higher, matey. :) (PS: male 'friend' - Benign Narc: Secret Competitor, not Friend - sounds like he wants to actually BE you!) Yup. Chuck 'em. Push them together; with any lucky they'll kill each other within 6 months. (Oops...very non-PC. But then, so are they so...) Now handing you back to Manalone/the floor...

Thank you for the support and advice. This has been a long rollercoaster ride with someone who likely has BPD (but is undiagnosed). I have been working up the courage for awhile to end it was was planning to do it this week but I've felt pressured by the holidays and a recent self-harm threat/incident has taken the wind out of my sails. We also are a part of a group activity twice a week and she's gotten more involved in my social circles now that I've opened the door to them (where in the beginning she was very jealous of this and tried to pull me away as much as she could). I've kept up the privacy within our relationship, so one really knows what she has put me through at this point. My fear is that in true BPD fashion, she always seems so sweet and wonderful to everyone outside of our relationship (as they tend to only unleash their tendencies on those in an intimate relationship) and when I leave she may twist everything around and paint herself as the victim and manipulate my friends and acquaintances. Especially if I try to reconnect with friends i've lost because of her (some are mutual). This is someone I should have never let this far into my life and I ignored all the warnings, red flags, and under the delusion that I could fix them or they would change. I could not have even imagined the damage that was going to ensue and I hate myself to some degree for letting this happen and to continue. It's definitely something I need to reflect on, especially to avoid attracting someone like this again and focusing on establishing a better male social circle (which has proven difficult).

Just bumping your thread higher up the board, Jarvis. Haven't forgotten about you. For now (and feel free to respond, because I've read it, I just haven't the time to respond point-by-point rn): Are you saying that when you tried to end it, she threatened self-harm? Also: "This is someone I should have never let this far into my life and I ignored all the warnings, red flags, and under the delusion that I could fix them or they would change." First-off, she sounds more Narc than BPD to me. How do you know for a fact that BPD was the diagnosis? Were you with her at the time when the psychiatric assessor was telling her so? Or do you just have HER word for it? Secondly: Didn't we all! It's not a delusion, it what one naturally does, called, trying to make it work. So making the EFFORT was not the fault here, it was the fact that the recipient is incapable of receiving the ingredients you hand them, to make Love Pie. They can't cook/won't cook! If she was healthy, it would have worked. See the important diff that makes ALL the diff? It's normal for victim-survivors to blame themselves at-first, too. (You're normal. :)) I'll help you reflect and by-heart-learn your Red Flags, no wozzies. So can everyone here. Plus, like you're already doing, you learn a lot by playing respondent to others (and vice-versa). In fact, you could do an extra crash-course just reading other threads (search by 'Emotional' or 'Relationship'). After all, people's problems USUALLY means problem people...certainly from what I've seen my whole life. Anyway - back to my question about that threat? Gory details, please?

No she had no idea I was ready to end it, the threat just so happened to occur the week I was going to do it and her mother informed me about it. I was honestly quite surprised since it was following a very minor argument. Narc and BPD are similar in a few ways, but no there has been no official psychiatric evaluation. I'm just informed and well I've date an officially diagnosed BPD a long time ago and it's easy to put two and two together. I at least got her to a therapist for a month but she said she couldn't afford it and stopped. (she also likes to pretend she went for therapy after a long time female friendship fell apart caused her herself to seek it out but it was because she was driving me insane with her behavior so i suggested it). So many details and honestly the first year was hell even leading up to the initial issue I highlighted when I rightfully ended it and should not have taken her back.

Nope! BPDs would be like that IN REACTION to the news you were ending it - on the spot! This one had the predator senses to PICK-UP on the fact you were intending to end it, and machinated her plan to emotionally manipulate (strong-arm actually) you out of your decision BEFORE YOU'D SAID A THING. Predator Senses = PRE-EMPTIVE act. Sorreeeeeeee. Maybe your last one was a Narc as well?...likewise passed herself off as BPD. Female Narcs gets misdiagnosed with it a LOT...'After all - WOMEN can't be nasty, CAN they!') (fckn can) ('Yeah, but NOT DE-LIBER-ATELY?!') (fckn can). Were you aware that the trauma goes deeper in men abused by female abusers? Precisely BECAUSE men don't EXPECT that amount of cruelty and spitefulness from a 'sugar and spice and all things nice'-merchant, do they. No-one warns them. Aaanyhoo... Are you telling me that after a whole year (which thanks to Love-Bombing feels more like 4 or 5 in terms of (false) intimacy), you only took her back once? Cos - did you also know that it can take the target-victim up to seven separate attempts to escape/end it? Or should I now be saying, USED to? Are you a GenZ, Jarvis? Well, whatever age you are - success on only 2nd attempt is something you should be very proud of yourself for, not this self-recriminaton crap ("Air, stop that at once, Timothy!" haha). What does watching this do to you? (link below) --------------------------------- Incredibly powerful for victims and near-victims, it is. And note, you are the petite young woman, your ex is the blokie (soz about that, tho it proves my above point about how damaged/crippled, angry women like that are rarer than the male counterparts thus more mind-uckingly shocking)... Open it fully and watch it as many times as you need to and bear in mind there is a lot of symbolism going on. (It also helps to be aware that this victim - played by the female dancer-actress, Maddie Zeigler - has let the rotten, anti-Nature relationship (fauxlationship) go on that bit too long before ending it, and, therefore, has begun Reactively Abusing (hitting back) the male dancer(ish), played by Shia LaBeouf. Hitting *BACK* (diff/all the diff). Uncharacteristic but necessary self-Defence (when not taken too tellingly far, WHICH a healthy victim tends not to)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWZGAExj-es Lyrics [Verse 1] And another one bites the dust Oh, why can I not conquer love? And I might have thought that we were one Wanted to fight this war without weapons And I wanted it, I wanted it bad But there were so many red flags Now another one bites the dust Yeah, let's be clear, I'll trust no one [Pre-Chorus] You did not break me I'm still fighting for peace [Chorus] Well, I've got thick skin and an elastic heart But your blade, it might be too sharp I'm like a rubber band until you pull too hard Yeah, I may snap and I move fast But you won't see me fall apart 'Cause I've got an elastic heart [Post-Chorus] I've got an elastic heart Yeah, I've got an elastic heart [Verse 2] And I will stay up through the night Yeah, let's be clear, won't close my eyes And I know that I can survive I'll walk through fire to save my life And I want it, I want my life so bad I'm doin' everythin' I can And another one bites the dust It's hard to lose a chosen one [Pre-Chorus] You did not break me I'm still fighting for peace [Chorus] Well, I've got thick skin and an elastic heart But your blade, it might be too sharp I'm like a rubber band until you pull too hard Yeah, I may snap and I move fast But you won't see me fall apart 'Cause I've got an elastic heart ----------------------------------------------- 'Oo-er', eh? Gets me every time. But Sia really should do a second version with the gender roles reversed, methinks, or she's needlessly missing out on the male market (or those that can't imagine themselves as 'Maddie').

PS: "This one had the predator senses to PICK-UP on the fact you were intending to end it, and machinated her plan to emotionally manipulate (strong-arm actually) you out of your decision BEFORE YOU'D SAID A THING. Predator Senses = PRE-EMPTIVE act." Pre-Emptive Strike, I meant. AMBUSH. You woz ambushed with a severe manipulation tactic. She even duped or roped-in her mother! What - no conscience, no mother-protectivness, no empathy (nor since), NO SHAME?... She could at this rate be a female Sociopath, in-fact. That would explain the minimising misdiagnosis...misleading and lying during the assessment. Also the (unsophisticated) plotting and pre-emptive striking/ambush. Food for thought, huh... which would actually make your Silver escape medal, a Gold! Whaddayathinkin' NNNNOWWWW? (wiggles eyebrows inquisitively)

Don't worry about this bit, Jarvis. Honestly - don't waste your energy... "manipulate my friends and acquaintances." True friends - those who know you and what you're like and capable of/not capable of - can't be lost. Only the fakes (or incompatibles) and/or those with an agenda (i.e. need to kiss her a*se) will take her side (or takes sides at all). You just lose Deadwood. Which is VERY FAIR when you think about it? You get the diamonds - she gets the rocks, including the calcified pieces of POO. Once you've 'de-slimed', you'll find those that didn't want to touch you with a bargepole purely because you were WITH HER and didn't like the effect it was having on you, will make an advance/re-advance. See Creative Nick's thread for proof that 'elusive' but powerful effect. Do not adjust your set, this is just a temporary fault. :) Don't worry about a THING, honestly. You've escaped the only thing worth worrying about. Everything else, as you grieve and the weeks and months pass, gently fallsback into place, AND new-and-improved - including you! (The experience is a superb Growth Shunt-er) ('Every cloud has a silver lining').

...She might manage to net a COUPLE of good'uns...but they'll soon learn and find out for themselves - at which point, they'll come back with apologies and "OMG!" stories of their own. It's how this goes. Those cases where it DOESN'T go like that, tends to be when the victim has zero support/grounding and manages to convince themselves that this aftermath, this Hell, is now their life full-stop, nothing will change, they're DOOOOMED. ..which, I understand, but just reminds me of that Alexei Sayle comedy sketch (80s comedian, like Omid Djalili on acid!), which, irritatingly, I can't find yet, but - basically.... Alexei is just stood outdoors on a perfectly normal, flat pavement, two feet planted firmly on it, but (head-heavy-ly) wobbling his entire upper body and arms around in random directions, saying, '*I'm* not insecure'. :D I'll keep trying because even with that spoiler, it's hysterical. I spat out an entire mouthful of Spag Bol first time I watched it. Trust me, I wouldn't have done that had I had even one atom of self-control. It was THAT FUNNY.

PS: If anyone says anything... like- 'SHE reckons you said/did that/that/the other' - here's your stock reply (this comes under, playing Grey Rock, aka, "doing a Nigella" (Lawson...Charles Saatchi's poor ex) : 'Sorry..., but I know I can walk away with a clean conscience'. or 'Sorry... But I know I had every good intention and did my very best'. or 'Truth outs'.

FOUND IT! I've found it in an early episode of his BBC series (not too long). (Just to warn you: his humour was considered Politically Incorrect even in the 80s...but, deliberately, and always cutely-intelligently, not offensively.) ******************************************** https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9j8x84 ******************************************** It's timed at 23:12. But it's worth watching the whole episode. (Hopefully it's your humour? It's definitely mine.... 'the Great British Non-Stop Piss-Take' haha.) It's hard to choose between the other especially-best bits, they're all so hysterical and such great fun, but the piss-yer-pants sketches for me start at: - 9:31, ...especially this bit: "I've just bought a new watch... yeh! - new watch.......It's a GOOD watch, this!....It's a DIVER'S watch......I had to DROWN him to get it....". And PS: Blue Stratos was a men's cologne back in t' 1980s. - 18:23 - "That's the thing with us British, isn't it - we can laugh at ourselves", - 18:34 - about going out in the evening to get lashed, followed by an Indian restaurant, and the waiter saying, 'Good evening, Sir. And what would you like to throw-up tonight?" (And during the sketch starting at 21:10 about Margaret Thatcher and her Tardis (haha, don't ask), he makes a scarily spot-on prediction about the state of the NHS of the future!) (And the end comment during the Walt-Disney-In-a-Fridge (don't ask) -style credits at the end.) (Oh, all of it!) pmsl Enjoy!